Why is the US currently obsessed with protein?
Every food commercial, advertisement, and packaging in the US is currently protein obsessed. I just bought 3 burritos, and the most noticeable thing on the entire package is its protein content. TV commercials about waffles are advertising that they have X amount of protein per serving. The products in my jobsite's vending machine have protein all over every package.
Did America have a protein thing recently?
280 replies
Congratulations, you’ve discovered the nature of advertising.
A while back during the gluten-free craze my laundry detergent proudly had “gluten-free” on the packaging.
EDIT: I learned it’s possible for plant-based detergents to have contact with gluten, so for those with zero tolerance it can be a concern.
GMO free water is my favourite
https://xkcd.com/641/
I would very much like to know if that's true. Removing every pollutant from water isn't easy.
GMO=genetically modified organism. Non-GMO designations have nothing to do with pollutants or purity.
Probably should have been able to put that together myself. Thanks!
So while it sounds insane for detergent to label itself gluten-free, for people with severe gluten sensitivity toiletries, cosmetics, and other non-consumable items can still cause them symptoms with exposure, or so I've been told by someone I know with gluten intolerance. Whether this is an exaggerated concern or not, there is demand (albeit small) for such products.
I stand corrected.
The detergent I used was supposed to be eco-friendly so its target audience might be looking at plant-based cleaners.
I only just found out that I have a severe gluten intolerance, but not coeliac.
My wife and I used to make fun of all the random products that had GF labels, but now we understand the reason for them. There’s so many household items that just contain gluten as a thickening or binding agent and the labels are actually a huge help.
There are probably more, but this is the first thing I found
There isn't really any evidence for gluten sensitivity. You're likely reacting to something else, and it's getting blamed on gluten. Celiac of course is a real thing. But there haven't been any studies finding gluten sensitivity to have any tangible evidence. But, as always, do what makes feel better.
No, they have to ingest it. These people are stupid
It depends on the type. Celiac is gut based, but there are other intolerances and allergies. Some are contact based.
My dog shampoo proudly states that it has not been tested on captive animals.. so I'm left wondering if they've tested it on free animals, or if I should think twice about using it on my dogs.
Animal testing typically involves injecting chemicals or rubbing directly into purpose-made abrasions or the eyes of animals. It is MUCH more brutal than it sounds.
Im sure they washed dogs with the final formula.
Man...why are we like this...
Animal testing doesn't even guarantee that it'll react the same way in/on humans. We have so many other options and yet we continue cruel practices because tradition. Ugh.
Or they're taking the approach of software companies nowadays: don't test, just make the users test in production
Although my dogs have protested loudly about being bathed with this shampoo, I can confirm that they survived and were cleaner as a result.
I just had a great mental picture of some scientists chasing down and tackling a wild dog to try and shampoo it.
I always thought this meant "this specific product was not tested on animals but the research it is based on maybe probably involved animal testing." Like there's some foundational knowledge that forms the basis of "how to make a shampoo", and that knowledge may be gotten through some unethical means.
From Celiac.org
Do I have to use special gluten-free soaps, shampoos and lotions if I have celiac disease? Can gluten be absorbed through the skin?
No. Gluten cannot be absorbed through your scalp or skin. It must be ingested to affect those with Celiac disease.
https://celiac.org/2016/05/20/9-questions-about-celiac-disease-answered/
I drink my laundry detergent so this is important for me.
I wonder if this has anything to do with Tide Pods and tiktok... Lmao
Is that even a concern for people with celiac disease? I know you’re not supposed to spend a lot of time in a bakery just because of airborne flour, but how much fucking gluten were they putting in detergent to begin with??
As a gluten-intolerant, I'm pretty thankful for the marketing that made GF 'cool' for a bit. So many more options. Now if you'll excuse me, I'll continue drinking my GF beer.
My local garage has gluten free oil changes.
As a vegan, it's annoying. This obsession makes everyone concerned "where I get my protein."
But no one seems to track their fiber, sodium, iron, riboflavin, etc. and would be miffed if I constantly asked people about it.
“Oh, I’m good on protein intake. Thank you. But now that you mention it: I have been wondering how to bring up my concern for your possible riboflavin deficiency…”
You gotta try riboflavinmaxxing
Beans. The answer to all of the above is beans.
Fiber was the latest crazy a long time ago.
Remember Colon Blow? https://youtu.be/Ku42Iszh9KM
Fiber however is something most Americans actually don't get enough of. Like, to the tune of 95% of Americans don't get enough. We eat way too much meat and ultra processed low fiber foods, and not nearly enough leafy greens, legumes, or fresh fruit (not juice)
As someone on a zero fibre diet, I would argue that there is no such thing as too little fibre. Those people have a problem of eating low quality food and food shaped stuff, the fibre is incidental
Congrats on the hemorrhoids, but I'm not sure why you would want to advertize that.
That's not a problem I have ever had. Shit is easy on the no fibre diet
Do you want to know how I know that you're twenty-five or thereabouts, and definitely under thirty years old?
Go on
You want fiber if you dislike hemorrhoids and like shitting quick and easy.
People's diets generally consists of meat and carbs so they think a vegan will eat the same minus the meat.
Gym brahs often have vitamin deficiency and the increase in colon cancer under 30 is really disturbing.
Do you even colostomy, bra?
You might be interested in my reply above then. Essentially, thats part of why the obsession exists. I'm finding it hard to state it in a none conspiracy theorist way, but it's largely right wing anti science grifters winning an argument against health.
Wouldn't you get most of the other nutrients fairly easily as long as you eat a varied diet? Accounting proteins/carbs/fats (and their sub-category types) seems harder
A varied diet provides protein as well.
Science time! Proteins are made up of amino acids. Certain chains of amino acids form "complete proteins," which are what most people think of as "protein." However, the constituent amino acids connect with each other in our bodies even if they're obtained from different sources. So two sources of "incomplete" proteins can still provide "complete proteins" if both are consumed. Which means it's a lot easier to get your protein from a varied, vegan diet than most people might think.
Incomplete vs complete proteins on WebMD.
https://www.greatveganathletes.com/athletes/sport/bodybuilders/
TLDR: eat both cereals and legumes.
Amino acids are consumed by the body in a certain proportion, and excess goes down the drain. Both cereals and legumes contain amino acids, but both lack some of the ‘essential’ acids. However, as luck would have it, they complement each other in this regard.
Honestly, while probably annoying, that is not a bad first question. It shows concern for your wellbeing and (hopefully) willingness to learn.
99% of packaging that mentions "high protein!! have way less protein than various unprocessed nuts...
I track my fiber and protein. Protein because I'm physically active and trying to build muscle, and good god I have to eat a lot of it. I would not eat enough without tracking.
Fiber because I had ass issues recently, and found out the hard way how important fiber is. Yeah I know, I'm a dumbass, but I'm doing better now.
High fiber/high protein diet is a great way to help with weight loss too.
Its not because of obsession, it's because it's literally the starting point for nutrition knowledge, and it's the most obvious thing that would be lacking in a vegan diet. When people think substantial protein they think meat first and dairy and eggs second.
It turns out the answer is realy very long, but it's a hell of a ride. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K35FtbuyTh4
TLDW:
It's a right-wing grift. The Leftist Cooks argue that carnivore and “protein-maxxing” diets are not about health; they’re tied to masculinity, control, grift, and far-right politics. They use figures like Jordan Peterson and the Liver King to show how restrictive meat-heavy high protein diets can become symbols of power, identity, and pseudo-scientific authority.
The broader argument is food is never just food. Dietary choices can carry cultural meaning, political signaling, and ideological pressure, and that high protein culture is part of a larger ecosystem that can normalize authoritarian, anti-science, and anti-egalitarian thinking.
The video is excellent though. It's basically a miniseries on the various causes and effects of this and it's incredibly well put together, even if it is 6 hours long. 😱
I came in here to link this video too! Its very good
Haha I watched this a couple weeks ago.
Another really important point they make is that even among athletes, extra protein intake does not really help. Athletes only have higher protein intake because their overall caloric intake is higher. Studies show that increased protein intake is only associated with higher athletic performance when it is alongside increased intake of other nutrients (carbs). I was looking at a meta analysis a few days ago. I don't have the link but I took this screenshot.
So a "protein shake" is not likely to help you unless you were already protein deficient, which as somebody else pointed out in this thread, is not likely for Americans who over consume meat.
Disclaimer: I am not an expert.
it really depends on the athlete - for an endurance athlete in particular, you don't need a crazy amount of protein. Dancers/gymnasts too or really any sport more reliant on cardiovascular endurance or coordination than maximal strength or power.
bodybuilders/powerlifters are on the far other end of that spectrum, they probably have the highest demand for protein intake out of any athlete. The general consensus is the muscle-building benefits of more protein flatten out around 0.8g protein per 1lb body weight. so about 120g of protein for someone who weighs 150lb. You can definitely eat more or less without issue, that's just roughly the threshold where more protein doesn't seem to help you athletically.
The nutritional guidelines under RFK's administration were changed to recommend 1.2-1.6g protein/lb of body weight for EVERY American, which is fucking ridiculous. It is fine to eat the high end of that range, but you have to be very careful to get enough carbs and fats without introducing too much caloric surplus. There is a valid argument that protein tends to keep you satiated longer and eating a lot of it might be good if you're looking to lose weight. I don't think it's a great idea for everyone though, and most Americans get enough protein for their basic needs anyhow.
but you know what's even better at keeping you satiated that most Americans are actually super deficient in? that's right fuckin FIBER baby. Protein is just in fashion right now, especially among conservatives, many of whom are meeting this through red meat probably because they think lentils are icky and woke. and we're god awful at health education so various nutrients get touted as THE THING YOUR BODY DESPERATELY CRAVES or THE THING THAT IS LITERALLY KILLING YOU on a rotating basis. e.g. electrolytes, carbs respectively.
(I can get more specific academic references for the earlier points, but I encountered much of it in Eric Helms' The Muscle and Strength Pyramid books, which line up with opinions of other credible trainers I've encountered. those books are also just a great read on this topic)
Oh, I have another much much shorter video that summarises a meta analysis that backs this up. It says that more proteins may actually even lead to marginally reduced muscle gains. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j1bx0GMofYw&pp=ugUEEgJlbg%3D%3D
It really depends. If you're actively working out, you need more protein than most people eat in a day. It doesn't have to be from meat obviously, but I need to target around 140g and I was no where near that until I changed my diet. There's plenty of science behind protein ratios for active people without dipping into right wing grifters.
The shake is pretty much a necessity for me since I'm also trying to lose weight. If it weren't the shake it'd be chicken or fish but that's a lot of extra cooking.
I reread this and your interpretation seems pretty off the mark. Of course you're going to get more endurance performance from a higher carb diet, carbs are what give you raw energy. Anyone who's ever done an endurance sport like long distance running knows they load you up on pasta for a reason.
Endurance performance is absolutely not the same as athletic performance, which is far more general. There's no way high protein diets aren't beneficial to people who need more raw strength than endurance. This meta analysis does not back up your comment.
I'm not sure which of us misunderstood it, but my interpretation of their findings is that overall, increased protein intake was not associated with increased athletic performance. However if you look ONLY at endurance, it was actually associated with high performance, though only when alongside carbs. Maybe counterintuitive.
Their total sample size was around 300 or 400 iirc. Pretty big, but could be better.
That's also why they like AI. Thinking is emasculating, better make a machine that thinks for you instead.
i assumed it was the popularity of gym culture moving into every day life
I also think this is it. I have a couple of friends that buy these kind of products, and they are also the only gym goers I know. So for my tiny sample it's an absolute one to one correlation.
Aside from people working out protein isn’t really going to make a difference.
It does, it makes your farts smell way worse.
Isn’t going to make a difference in… what?
Protein is absolutely important to your diet and makes a big difference to your body whether or not you’re a bodybuilder
Going out of your way to gain more than you need is what all this extra protein does. Just urea at the end of the day.
Protein doesn’t make you gain weight, that’s just a matter of the calories you eat. Protein intake effects how much of you weight gain goes to your muscles
Protein keeps you sated. It's not just a muscle thing. Eat more protein, and you'll eat less overall, and get less fat.
GLP-1, Ozempic or weightloss drugs.
heres a youtube video about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4y3r5vyac8
havent watched it. this discussion just popped up in another forum a few hours ago.
probably something about the lower calories intake while still getting enough proteins or smth like that.
It's this, the weightloss drugs. Protein AND fiber products are being pushed everywhere.
Fiber atleast you cant get too much of, and the majority of people don't get enough to begin with.
thats... not true. as always, the dose makes the poison.
I was referencing mostly that people already by and large get more protein than they need, and that it is easier to get to an amount of protein where it starts being bad for you (at least if you eat a regular western diet). Of course anything in excess is bad for you.
For sure! Especially millennials - there's way too many of us dying from colon cancer these days.
Yeah, you'd think the least pleasant sounding type of cancer would convince people. I know reducing my cancer risk and having better digestion have made eating beans and fruit a no brainer. And the psylium husk has been a massive boon.
Protein on the other hand. If you don't have a reason to suspect it's too low you're probably getting enough.
On the contrary, getting too much fiber is quite easy, especially if supplemented, and getting too much of it can have highly negative consequences.
Yeah I’m sure if you go eat a bunch of psylum husk it will clog you up. Almost nobody is doing that. Statistically speaking (at least if you are American or European) you aren’t eating enough fiber in your diet and you are getting more protein than your body requires.
(Also most dietary supplements aren’t that great for you and are never as good as just eating better)
And yet, there's cases like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MggKIfEld4
You aren't realistically ever getting too much protein either, unless you eat exclusively protein powder and very lean meat
Im guessing it also has something to do with all the noise around lowered testosterone in men lately. Protein dude bro think
Lowered testosterone is about fatter people.
Fucking yanks and their fad diets, no one else does this, everyone else is healthier eating proper portions of food from a diverse diet.
Macho culture -> bulking-> protein
Lmfao at this whole thread of nonsense answers.
It's not a weird obsession.
If you want to be muscular, then you need to eat a lot of protein.
If you want to be muscular and have a low body fat percentage, then you need to eat a lot of protein, and eat a lot of protein / calorie you eat.
If you're old and want to slow down how quickly your muscles waste away to maintain your physical health, you need to eat a lot of protein.
And protein is generally one of the more expensive parts of food, so companies constantly try and cut back and replace it with carbs and sugar instead... All leading to people seeking out food with high protein content
Agreed, although I'll add a few things. Protein has a much higher thermic effect of food (TEF), meaning your body expends more energy processing it. Protein and carbs both contain around 4 calories/gram and fat around 9, but TEF is roughly 20–30% for protein, 5–10% for carbs and 0–3% for fat. In other words, your body burns roughly that percentage of the calories from each just processing them.
More importantly, protein supplies the amino acids your body needs to maintain and rebuild muscle; carbs can't substitute for the essential amino acids you have to get from your diet. That's particularly useful during a caloric deficit, when you're trying to lose fat while preserving muscle, and as you get older and age-related muscle loss becomes a concern.
Protein also tends to be more satiating than carbs or fat and affects appetite hormones like ghrelin, GLP-1 and CCK. So while there's no magic number of calories that adding protein will make you eat less, the evidence supports protein making it easier to feel satisfied on fewer calories.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32768415/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8878356/
So protein helps you maintain muscle, makes you feel fuller per calorie, and costs your body more energy to process. There are pretty good reasons people trying to lose fat, build/maintain muscle, or stay healthy as they age to seek out higher-protein foods. The marketing obsession didn't come out of nowhere, even if companies take advantage of it by plastering the protein content across the front of the package while leaving things like carbs, saturated fat, and total calories much less prominent.
It’s a weird obsession because people are trying to eat significantly more than they need.
People misunderstood grams per kilogram and just switched it to grams per pound without actually converting units
Lmfao, no they didn't, you misunderstood the difference in recommended intakes for maintenance (/kg) vs gaining muscle / slowing it's atrophy in old age (/lb).
People eat more than they need because modern society makes it incredibly easy to, and we're removed from the survival conditions that made high-energy foods so attractive to us in the first place. The American lifestyle is particularly bad in this regard, with our car-dependent cities, sedentary lifestyles, abundance of cheap, calorie-dense food, and food companies that spend heavily on advertising and lobby politicians to keep regulations and labeling requirements favorable to them.
The “people are trying to eat significantly more than they need” was referring to protein
As in people are drinking 300 calorie protein shakes when they aren’t hungry so they can hit their “protein target”
What protein shake is 300 calories? All the decent ones are around 110-130
Americans eat too much everything. Protein won't fix that.
Actually one of the biggest problems that Americans and Europeans have when it comes to obesity is high carb diets. Compared to carbohydrates, protein helps keep you feeling fuller, longer. So higher protein diets would absolutely have an impact on fixing that problem.
That is a completely retarded statement. Protein is exactly what will fix that. it keeps you much more sated than carbs and sugar, and unless you track it, you probably aren't eating enough of it.
You assholes call us fat, then say shit like this.
But dumbasses think protein is only in meat. Internet thinks protein = meat.
https://www.greatveganathletes.com/athletes/sport/bodybuilders/
And let's just ignore colon cancer rates in <30 coincident with the protein fad.
No, the vast majority of bodybuilders and gym bros use whey protein powder which is dairy based.
Also, if we're talking normal food, you have to eat 6 full cans of beans to get the same protein as 1lb of chicken or fish. Meat is not the only way to get protein but the fact of the matter is that for most people (assuming they ignore the morals and ethics) it's gonna be easier and tastier to get a substantial amount of protein from meat.
Lmfao thanks random internet person for your rough feeling of correlation. Glad no actual researcher would have ever possibly thought to check that in their study! /S
White meat certainly seems fine from everything I can find, but beef and red meat are 100% linked to colon cancer. The carnivore diet may not explicitly state to eat only red meat - but every single person I've met that pushes it IRL seems to immediately talk about eating steak or ground beef for every meal. Joe Rogan pushed it by suggesting he was 'experimenting' by eating only eggs, ground beef, and elk. Jordan Peterson literally only consumed beef, salt, and water.
To say this is a right-wing chud fad in recent years is not inaccurate - and to assume causation for the rise in colon cancer is also supported by science.
Yes you can probably do the carnivore diet on nothing but chicken and fish, that simply doesn't match reality as far as most practioners of the carnivore diet are concerned.
Yeah there's a huge difference between the powerlifters living off chicken, rice, and spinach and the modern adherents of the carnivore diet.
Yes, the group eating zero carb is healthier then the powerlifters. You can have huge muscles and still be metabolically unwell.
Only in observational epidemiology with meaningless hazard ratios less then 2 in carbohydrate heavy populations.
Your political biases do not transfer to a dietary pattern used by people globally outside of your local political theatre. None of the "science" would say causation, observational epidemiology CANNOT establish cause and effect, it can only generate hypothesises. The papers themselves are very careful about this "linked, associated" they avoid casual language.
You need fat, humans are lipovores - so a meat with high levels of saturated fat (such as salmon) would be a good option for a zero carb diet.
How about you read my comment again, recognize that I already addressed that white meat is likely fine - then do some research about prominent carnivore diet practioners.
Spoilers - they aren't telling you to eat fucking salmon.
I read your comment, and I've read extensively on zero carb - yes - Salmon and red meat are healthy foods in that eating pattern.
Red meat is not healthy.
Btw, high protein intake lets you age quickly.
This statement is not supported by science. There are no shortcuts, if you want big muscles you have to exercise more.
Obviously. But you have to eat enough protein on top of that.
Exercising is the easy part of body building. Eating and sleeping well enough is the hard part.
Sleep is the endgame boss for me. Diet I've gotten fairly good at. But I've struggled with sleep for a long time and it's so fragile. One thing can be off and it'll screw up the whole night, which messes with the next day etc. It's very easy to fall into a bad sleep cycle.
Influencer slop. That's literally it.
Marketing & the obsession of a healthy lifestyle promoted by influencers.
If you want to build muscles you need proteins. => You need proteins to build muscle.
But also if you want to lose weight, you have to reduce carbs and eat more proteins. => Your body needs more energy to break down the proteines and convert it to energy than for carbs and fats=> You feel full longer & "burn" more calories when digesting.
Unfortunately, people don't realize that fibers are more op than proteins. And just eating proteins how some influencers are promoting is kinda BS for your longterm digestive system. => TLDR eat beans over just meat. Also, look forward to the high fiber fad that is about to be started.
In the darkness they lurked, until their time to rise once again.
Waiting.
Watching.
Weight Watchers.
Yeah dark leafy greens and lots of beans (with rice). They're filling, nutritious, low calorie, and once your digestion acclimates you'll feel great. Also non-fried potatoes are great as well
If you're building muscle, you want your protein to have the right amino acids
It's the prevalence of drugs like Ozempic. They cause people to eat a negative calorie diet so it's very important that they keep their protein intake at or above their requirements. If they don't, they will lose muscle at a dangerous rate.
Pretty sure these drugs are just creating huge heart health problem we'll see in the future.
i think that might only have a weak correlation, because iirc the "trend" with high protein products started before ozempic became available.
i would say it is only the normal marketing cycle, like how 15-40 years ago it was the phase of low sugar
so i would predict that in 5-10 years we will enter a cycle with maybe high (healthy) fats/low sugar or something similar again
You will also feel like shit without it
A lot of Americans have been convinced lack of protein is why they keep gaining weight and aren't muscular. Testosterone is in a similar position. These can be concerns for people who are low in them, or for people struggling at high levels of fitness. But it's largely just influence from diet influencers repeating gym bro advice.
There's also a straight line between bro culture, testosterone supplements, and fascism
I'd love to see the link between those cause you seem to be implying high testosterone = bro = fascist and I really hope that's not what you think.
You don't have to look far to find the far right's obsession with testosterone (read: gender affirming care for cis men), whether it's giving it to the military or Elon Musk's weird cybertruck shaped body. Then look at who else is pushing that shit nonstop.
Though I did learn there's a weak study that they like to cite, described by Vice here. Emphasis on weak
I understand, fascist bros (the manosphere basically) push the idea that "weak" men just have low T and by taking more they'll become "alphas" or whatever. Not that people with high T are more likely to be fascists.
As the article points out repeatedly, that study linking high T with Republican voting (it never mentions fascism) is so flawed as to be useless but I guess that doesn't matter if chuds aren't going to read it anyway.
If you need testosterone supplement, it would imply that you have low testosterone to begin with. Or that you just want more. But you are completely changing the meaning by changing "testosterone supplement" to a generalized "high testosterone".
I think it's more that obsession with testosterone and projected/performative masculinity (i.e. machismo, toxic masculinity) is very much associated with fascist leanings.
There are a whole lot of fat, angry, unhappy middle-aged men who want to feel powerful and intimidating. Most of them don't want to do the actual work of getting fit. They don't want to go to a doctor, because that's for weak people, like women and effeminate men. They don't understand that their excess adipose tissue is messing up their hormones. Ads tell them that they just need more protein and sunlight on their testicles and finally they'll feel powerful. They post passive-aggressive meat breakfast photos on Instagram and glare at people from their pickups, while listening to an ad telling them to buy some unregulated supplement that will boost their testosterone for only $29.99 per month.
There are also a bunch of young men who have grown up watching toxic influencers. They're taking steroids and trying to get huge. It's all toxic masculinity and masked insecurity.
Incidentally, I'm not in any way saying that fitness or masculinity are inherently toxic or fascist. It is, however, a popular pipeline for recruiting men into far-right and fascist ideologies these days.
I agree with you 100%
Only on Lemmy can you find a link between protein powder and fascism
This place is beyond brain fucked 🤣
Because you can slap on a '30g protein' label on junk food and charge double for it
Candy bars bad, protein energy bars good brah.
Same fucking thing.
A lot of people have gone on GLP-1's recently. You're advised to eat a lot of protein when you go on those.
I thought protein was last year and fiber was this year
It goes back and forth. Fiber was also big in the 1990s, and protein big maybe like 2004-2016 because of the Atkins diet trend that ended when it turns out that's not a great thing to do long term, and doesn't prevent you blocking your arteries with cholesterol.
We've literally had this trend before, recently.
Genuinely, fiber is always important. It's something we actually don't get enough of on average. Forget the trends and influencers, just make sure you're eating plenty of fiber.
It's got what plants crave.
The US secretary of health, RFK Jr., pushes an uptake in protein as part of his "MAHA" - "Make America Healthy Again" - messaging. See example tote bags for an event here.
It's the reason you can buy protein poptarts.
Eh, its gotten more popular, but I first did keto back in 2017 and it was great. The Atkins diet started back in the 70's. Keto aa we know it today traces its roots back to the Mayo clinic in 1921, and you can find other evidence of people throughout history trying high protein diets.
The US government's messaging about food as always had a lot more to do with economics and politics than health.
Oh, I was being advised about a "Mediterranean diet" back in the early 2000s for my epilepsy. But mass adoption at this level - like, "Protein Chocolate Milk" - bro, do you know how much protein is already in chocolate milk, before you add more? - is absolutely grifters gathering around a new fad, and RFK and the current admin is nothing if not on the grifter train, or "economics and politics" if you want to call it that. The GLP-1 note from others is actually a good point as well.
Ozempic. People on it can't handle sugars and carbs as well.
I think this is the correct answer. A shocking amount of people are on these weight loss drugs. When you are on these medications, you're given guidelines for a high protein diet. Because these drugs make you lose weight pretty fast. I know several people taking these medications and it's buy everything high protein because the drugs make you not want to eat at all so you need as much protein as possible when you do.
Because the weight loss comes from muscle first, so Ozempic users MUST eat high protein & lift weights to build/maintain muscle or else their body composition turns into jelly. Ask me how I know 😜
I hope that you're becoming swole as hell and not turning into jelly in that case.
Yes, pretty much every female at my wife's work is on it. I still worry that in 10 years we'll find out there's some horrible side effect from extended use. I could stand to lose a few myself, but I don't want to touch the stuff for that reason and the muscle loss mentioned. I lift weights and don't want to lose any of the gains I've made over the last 3 years. If I wanna get lean, I'll just have to adjust my diet the old fashioned way to a shitload of brown rice, boiled chicken and broccoli.
This thread rightly points out all the excesses of capital-fueled social trends.
Less mentioned is that a higher protein breakfast ~20-30g vs traditional carb-heavy breakfast is actually helpful for more stable morning energy (less sugar crash), cognitive clarity, and reduced snack cravings especially later in the day. Search any of your reputable health sources and you'll likely find something to that effect. I don't believe it's particularly disputed at this point.
Is it because of less carb or high protein? If I eat veggies do I get the same result?
Mostly no, but the mostly is because most vegetables aren't as high in protein. If you eat protein rich vegetables the effect holds.
Some starches and fiber also have the effect, since metabolism is complicated. I believe potato is quite high on the satiety index, as are apples.
Basically it's that your body just absorbs sugar and doesn't spend time on it, so it doesn't satisfy you. Carbs are pretty quick, but depending on the fiber content it can more than make up for it. Your body cherishes fat so it tries to get you to drink it. Protein is useful calories that take a lot of work to rip up, and they occupy space.
An apple and a bowl of lentil curry will fill you up.
Protein takes longer to metabolize into energy than carbs, hence you don't crash like with carbs. Starchy veggies give you carbs, low-carb veggies don't have protein or carbs so you'll just be extra tired.
Wait, what about morning pasta, I feel they work fine for me. Should I switch to morning sausages?
Most susages are also high in fat and salt, so I don't know that eating them every morning would be a healthy switch. I'd feel heavy afterward. They are also high in nitrites, which lead to carcinogens... should be fine if eaten occasionally, or so I tell myself lol.
At the end of the day, it's whatever works for you. And it's worth trying different things.
Eggs. If you hate eggs or are allergic to them, then steak or chicken. Traditional breakfast meats (ham, sausage) are full of nitrates. Nothing wrong with that as an occasional treat, but don't habituate it.
Eggs are just about the perfect morning food. I think they're the most efficiently absorbed protein, too, when cooked. I make an omelette most days with eggs, a pepper and onion blend, spinach, and some cheese.
It's the fad of the day (decade).
If you look closely, you might start seeing "high in fiber!" creeping in. You know how the last ten years there were articles about how Americans don't eat enough fiber? Well, now fiber is the new selling point...
I ate a whole box of fiber one bars all at once almost 2 decades ago and I have been regular ever since I could leave the house after eating them all.
Interesting question and answers here. The GLP1 stuff makes sense.
They don't tell you about the bioavailability of the proteins though. Waffles or plants among others don't get utilized by the body as well as protein from meat or whey.
That's not true at all.
I buy PROTEIN-packed twinkies to grow humongous MUSCLES so my mom knows that I have SEX with many ladies and I want everyone to rest assured that I am a big HETEROSEXUAL man in my Thunderfalconcougarbird
Why is this place so mentally ill?
Many neckbeards living in moms' basements are drawn to Lemmy.
There have been a bunch of great answers already, but I'm not seeing one important factor: soy farmers. Soy is one of the cheapest sources of protein, and there's a lot of it grown, so the soy lobby is always trying to push new uses for it.
Meat and dairy are also heavily subsidized by corruption in government.
Soybeans are a complimentary crop for corn, and is farmed in rotation to fix nitrogen in the soil. The soybean lobby and the corn lobby are essentially the same thing in the US, and they have lots of clout.
It's not entirely pseudoscience. I imagine a lot of people don't normally get the recommended 1.2g per kg per day https://examine.com/guides/protein-intake/
That seems high per https://www.mayoclinichealthsystem.org/hometown-health/speaking-of-health/are-you-getting-too-much-protein
Which quotes 0.8 g/kg
Eat more protein!
Take these digestive drugs to keep it all down!
Take Glp1 because you are now fat!
Visit our cancer centre to get fitted with a colostomy bag!
This is the US diet in a nutshell.
Just to note 1.2g per kg per day is a highly contested number. To my knowledge, the usual recommended dietary allowance (RDA) of most countries sits at around 0.8. As it says in that link, this was the RDA in the US, too, before the Trump bros recently increased it.
And the RDA covers the needs of 97.5% of the population. So, per definition, most people need less than that.
At the same time, with an average Western diet, you can easily get 1.5g per kg bodyweight per day. There's cases where folks can't deal with excess protein due to a kidney failure, and actually getting them to not eat excess protein can be quite the challenge.
Source for that second block is this podcast/video where a nutrition professor is interviewed: https://zoe.com/learn/podcast-should-i-eat-more-protein
The RDA issue is addressed in the article I linked
Gym bros misquote this as a gram per pound, which is just a ridiculous amount of protein.
That's how much you need to eat when you're trying to actively gain muscle, not just maintain your current amount.
And quite frankly, either put on that much muscle or kindly accept that they may have a point.
It’s 1 gram per pound of LEAN body mass not overall body weight
Just because a person is in good shape doesn’t mean they actually understand what is required to train and it’s very common for top athletes to use a ton of pseudoscience garbage because they want anything that could possibly improve performance
1lb of LEAN body mass is still a shit ton of protein to have to try and squeeze in. For your average adult man that's the equivalent of 5-7 scoops of protein powder, or like ~1.5lb of chicken breast, every single day.
You're not getting that unless you're going out of your way to.
I have put on that much muscle. I just refuse to buy any kool-aid that's being sold to me. Maybe they should bring proof instead of spreading trends blindly?
They are literal bodybuilders and that is obvious to everyone who looks at them.
What the fuck kind of proof are you expecting? A a video diary of every meal ever consumed?
1.2 kg a day.... hilarious. Eating like pigs is good for the economy.
Saw an ad for a protein soda. I am vomit.
That sounds unpleasant, like in texture and flavor
I noticed that during the big egg "crisis" where eggs went up to the price we normally pay in the UK. Turns out they were gobbling them up like fucking Gaston for "protein". I get through maybe half a dozen in a particularly eggy week...
No mention of fibre though. Their arses must be split asunder.
I'm sure some people are chugging eggs for protein but it isn't the norm and that is not at all what led to eggs being more expensive in the US. It was bird flu outbreaks combined with new regulations in some states coming into effect. In my state everything now has to be "cage free" which came into effect right around the whole egg price spike, but from what I can tell the price spike was mostly due to bird flu
Bird flu is not over either. I usually only buy eggs from hens that can go outside, but for a few years hens weren't allowed outside because of bird flu.
Some of us just like deviled eggs.
They don't eat real fiber. They gobble up all of the sterculia gum which, coincidentally, is now also not available for people who need it for medical reasons worldwide.
Two main things
One is that GLP-1 drugs work really well in curbing appetite to cause weight loss. However, part of that weight loss is muscle mass and that is causing some people on it to be concerned. A way of mitigating that is to eat more protein relative to your diet. The restaurant industry is trying to appeal to these new customers by creating high protein and small portion dishes.
Two is that there are more people who aren't on these drugs focusing on fitness, specifically lifting and muscle mass. To that that physique, you need to eat a lot of protein relative to the rest of your diet. So restaurants are trying to sell to these people as well.
Reminder: 1 in 8 American's are on GLP-1 Drugs...
Definitely think the GLP-1s are probably the biggest contributer here
Sufficient protein intake is very important when it comes to gaining healthy weight, or retaining muscle mass as you either diet or age. Most people do not get enough protein intake their daily meals, and unlike other things like potassium, iron or vitamins, there’s no easy over the counter pill you can swallow to level that out. In the U.S. people that haven’t been intentional with their diets usually tend towards very carb-heavy diets.
Companies put what they think people care about on their packaging. In the 90’s it was “low fat”. It’s trendy right now in America to eat healthier (perhaps due to fast food abandoning Americans for unsustainable profits) and one of the first two things any American will learn when you start actually paying attention to what you eat is that 1. You’re probably eating too many calories, and 2. You’re not eating enough protein.
Most Americans get significantly more protein than they need, men by ~30% and women by ~15%. Even if you look at the new wildly unscientific federal guidelines saying to get more protein (this is a top down “problem”) Americans tend to still get more than that, but it is closer. A huge problem is the over reliance on animal proteins causing the other issues and the huge lack of fiber Americans struggle with.
Preach. It's upsetting how the system has either failed to properly inform or actively misinformed so many people on this topic.
My favorite part of the debate are the sources
But what is the context? Are they 15-30% up on calories because of their intake, do they just eat too much? What about other countries, what about a normal diet, what is a normal diet?
Where did you learn that Americans don’t meet their protein needs?
Reinforcing what another comment has already said: the idea that we don't get enough protein is horse shit, we get way way more than we need. Which, and this is important, your body just has to filter out putting stress on vital organs.
I've heard this claim countless times, usually from people trying to shit on plant based eating, and it simply has no basis in fact. Even fully plant based eating gives you plenty of protein.
Something you don't commonly see: people getting treated for protein deficiency.
Organs? Apart from kidneys, which one? I've always heard no more than 1g/kg/day of protein otherwise risk of degrading your kidney.
Kidneys are the primary problem (and there's two of them so I'll pretend "organs" was meaningful there), I'm not educated enough to know much past that. I kinda assume that if you're stressing your kidneys it's going to impact something else though.
It's not that protein is like bad for the kidney, it's just that your body has to get rid of what you don't use so they work harder than they need to.
i think its the anti fat messaging, and sugar messaging going on.
Is it the usa or is it the big grocery conglomerates? In Canada it's protein this and protein that. The protein marketing machine is in full force. What say you Europeans?
I have a friend in food marketing in the UK, he moved to a new role as head of Protein at the start of the year. The machine is in full force here too.
Thanks for the input. All the best.
It's the entire world, no?
The reason you're noticing it is because of marketing propaganda. Anyone who sells a product that contains protein wants to highlight that aspect to take advantage of the public mindset who believes protein is an essential part of our diets. And the reason we even believe protein is an essential part of our diet is also because of marketing, even though it might be the case that protein actually is an essential component. The majority of the public would not know this unless they learned of it through the media. Read Propaganda by Edward Bernays. It talks about where this approach began at the beginning of the 20th century.
Marketing told us fat is evil. Carbs are evil. The news has told us Fiber will literally cause us to shit our brains out until we die.
What exactly is left except protein?
this is a question that someone who's not getting enough protein would ask
In addition to what others people have mentioned (studies showing legitimate benefits to increased protein, greater need to ensure adequate protein intake for those with artificially reduced appetite, and just general dude-bro carnivore keto fads), a huge thing that I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is the massive dairy surplus.
Very few people drink milk as a beverage compared to 15 years ago, so the dairy industry (with the aid of the government) is trying to get as many alternative uses for dairy going as possible.
It's got what plants crave
We actually just had another fitness epidemic here similar to the 90s but slightly more gym related than outdoor related. Protein powder was HUGE on tiktok shop and fairly big in stores. I happen to be a target of the powder supplement as a medical issue caused me to start my journey in losing over 100lbs in less than a year. I was having overnight oats with extra protein everyday. I have some left but now that I've lost the weight and kept most of the muscle, I'm back on whole foods only, especially for protein.
Edit: if you look it up, theres's a lot written about the "fitness influencer to right wing pipeline"
There was a fitness epidemic in the 90s?!
Aerobics and running were big in the late 70s to early 80s, but the 90s was about being big and soft. The clothes were oversized. Waists were high. Centerfolds had big boobs and wide waists.
The 90s was obsessed with "lite", i.e. cutting fats -- especially saturated fats -- out of foods, and with lowering cholesterol. Oh, and fiber. I don't recall any fitness craze, though.
You're absolutely right about the right-wing machismo trend. Manly men eat lots of meat and maximize protein. Just look how manly I am with my steak, nevermind how I waddled in from my lifted pickup.
I was just a kid but I guess I just mean that people were more active outdoors. I used to see skateboarders and bmx people everywhere, baseball fields being used quite often, parents riding bikes on trails, families camping, that kinda stuff. I lived in Northern Virginia right near the Potomac River where the population was fairly dense so maybe that skewed my view of the world a bit.
In Poland we also have this. A lot of products of have a huge infromarion how much protein it has or comercials in big cities with a new prootein products
Maybe you missed the pendulum swung back hard after the body positivity fad of "healthy at any size" and people yelling about how calories are a lie. this all went down about 3 yrs ago.
Then after the resulting mass of influencer death from heart failures in as young as mid twenties to early thirties we are swung back on the fitness side of things again with a new ferocity involving protien and glp1 now.
Considering everyone is in their own echo chamber, I'd say it's pretty easy to miss things.
well if that were true you wouldnt have noticed the protien ..
this was in rl a lot too. Just like the protein. there were clothing lines and crap all built around plus size models. Ads all over the place about 'size doesnt matter' but yet attacking thin people. They were all up in everyone's face calling anyone who counted calories to have an eating disorder. Calling down the medical field for being in on a conspiracy with diets and health. being offended over plane seats being too small. Some people outright refusing to walk anywhere and shamelessly hogging wheelchairs away from people with disabilities in airports.
it was a very weird time. not that now doesnt have it's bizarreness..
Around the same time GLP-1s entered the scene. Could be a coincidence, but it seems to me that people in general (including people who are themselves obese) are less accepting of bodies now that GLP-1s are available.
People who support psychopaths like lizzo or dank moss no doubt.
https://allaboutlawyer.com/lizzo-banana-lawsuit-2026-sexual-harassment-case-still-active-after-fat-shaming-claims-dropped-whats-next-for-trial/
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/detroit-rapper-dank-demoss-sues-lyft-was-denied-ride-weight-rcna189770
A lot of the current health craze is related to the effects and aftermath of the covid pandemic.
Also I believe that the more people lose control of their lives and feel like society is in a downward spiral, the more they will try to hold on in the few ways that remain. What is one of those few ways: their own personal health and fitness. Not to mention that the gym is one of the only high profile "social"/shared spaces that remain, that are not just about shopping.
I only see an obsession with protien from gym bros and health influencers that say shit like seed oils are posionous. 🤷♂️
Anything wrong with seed oils would be from chemical used in their production or contamination of the soil and air where it's grown.
The fact none of them have mentioned that, shows they are acting cynically and in bad faith, refraining from calling out the real culprits of problems as they play the sheep for their own benefit.
That said, the protein thing is way bigger than gym bros and health influencers. For over 15 years seemingly half the population is ocnvinced they are one high carb meal away from protein starvation.
You mean the industrial oils that didn't exist 150 year ago, and thus are brand spanking new to the human experience?
Shut the fuck up. Go to SE Asia and tell them nobody ate oil from crushed up seeds 150 years ago. Goddamn.
Not as a major source of nutritional energy, and regardless that isn't what modern seed oils are today - they are highly refined industrial outputs that are so far removed from "crushed up seeds" its laughable.
Rapeseed oil is poisonous to humans unless it is chemically modified in refineries to make Canola. The population is fed 22 million tonnes of Canola a year.
Lots of things are poisonous before we process them, including many things we've been eating almost since the discovery of fire.
This might need confirming so take it with a grain of salt
I heard because GLP-1 treatments got super cheap in US lately everyone is getting slimmer. So slimming doesn’t seem as a luxury anymore. And because meat quality went down massively and expensive - protein is the new luxury and “bulking up” is the new trend rather than slimming.
Typical American market manipulation.
It's not just the US even. It's been a trend for many years already, both aimed at gymbros with gymbro nutritional science ("more protein is betterer") and also selling that idea on to the general public because of the gymbro association.
I think the dumbest fucking thing I saw was a bar of chocolate I bought that proudly advertised that it had "high protein crisps" in it, and it was like 2% in a slab of milk chocolate.
Can't explain that
It used 2% milk.
Isn't the US, it's everywhere. The next trend is fiber.
Fiber, at least, is one people are actually short on (most people). Unlike protein.
lol that will never happen, not in the way you mean it. not unless the next trend is "cooking for ourselves like actual human beings"
They're are, not synthetic, but kinda, fiber that is starting to being used as ingredient that can be easily added to processed food.
Yep. Jars of fibre! It's a horrifying corporate grift, but it's also great for chronic fatigue perverts like me who cannot spend much energy on cooking most of the time. It does help.
Watch RFK start eating newspaper with Kid Rock.
No judgement. I just know that is the upcoming trend because my wife works in the food industry and she used to do a lot of projects in high protein products and nowadays everything is high fiber products.
Because every time they try to eat something, it's recalled.
Its another fad/advertising thing.
At another point, when the Keto Diet was everywhere, there was a restaurant near me that proudly announced that 100% of its menu was "Keto Diet". There where Keto diet snacks and Keto diet frozen meals etc.
Then there was the fat free phase, I dunno if you remember the fat free cookies that you could buy, or fat free salad dressing, or fat free bread etc.
This trend seems to come from the rise of fitness influencers, and in this case its based in some kind of truth. You need protein if you are working out a lot, you cant built real muscle without it. And so fitness influencers started making videos about the food they ate, and the big thing about it was how much protein it had because that's what they cared about.
And since influencer driven sales are huge now, you see a lot of companies wanting to cash in on the protein craze, so the packaging shifts towards showing off the protein content, because thats what everyone (or enough people) are tracking right now.
people basically listening to influencers about how you need to goto the gym to be considered someone who fits in with society and eating all the protein versions of whatever food you eat.
Not just America, that protein marketing fad is aimed at gym bro idiots worldwide.
as a vegan I get asked constantly where I get my protein from.
Is it vegetables?
Beans, legumes, peanut butter, soy milk, cashew milk, rice milk, oat milk, edamame, vegan protein powder, tree nuts, soy, peanuts, oats, peas, nutritional yeast, satan.
Legumes, probably. Thats what drove my daughter out of veganism when she tried it. She can't stand that stuff.
While I'm definitely not vegan, legumes have a good place in my food plan.
Trends are trending.
Levi makes good videos about these things. I enjoy following his channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19ZjMXZYq_Y
Probably the whole shitty influencer "wellness" trend, but too much protein is actually pretty bad for you.
Who in this economy is eating too much protein?
Too much is like 3 large chicken breasts or 5 beef patties per day for a 150lb person.
Plenty when every fucking thing has extra protein crammed into it.
Nutritionism sells more food. If you really want to be radicalized go read Michael Polan’s In Defense of Food
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Defense_of_Food
Right wing/influencer jockey/stupid American marketing/FOMO/idk we just buy whats cheapest and skip/block ads
The US has been obsessed with protein for at least 15 years, longer though.
Baby boomers have long been convinced they are one bowl of pasta away from protein starvation. But every other person elsewise now too.
Don't forget vitamin D! Everyone everywhere is vitamin D deficient! Vitamin D fixes everything! Youtube MDs are never wrong.
These health fads come in cycles. Once everyone realizes the last fad didn't do everything it claimed, a new fad must replace it.
it also has to do with FDA requirements for nutrition labeling. FDA has been bumbling around with FOP (front of package) labeling for almost two years now; some food companies are getting a jump on future requirements by putting some of that info on the front early. Just grabbed something at random:
https://www.goodnes.com/lean-cuisine/products/baked-chicken-frozen-entree/
"Sugar-Free" Candy will always amuse me.
they wouldn't if you were diabetic.
or maybe they would, but differently than you're implying.
Certainly tic-tacs, which are 100% sugar
No one eats enough protein. It keeps you sated, and also helps retain and grow muscle if you exercise. For a country everyone calls fat, everyone SHOULD be having more of it.
Some things are true simultaneously here:
The problem with the SAD isn't necessarily a lack of protein, although cutting out a lot of garbage food and replacing it with healthier food would in many cases increase protein intake (but not necessarily by * that *much)
Same reason they're obsessed with carnivore diet. It's about identity projection, macho manosphere bullshit, spun up by a very high amount of money injected by corporate propaganda.
Edit: For disclosure, it's worth noting that both users Jet and Xep below (who happen to have replied to my comment within minutes of each other, raising suspicion or brigading or just being the same user) are heavy moderators of Carnivore diet communities. So like their diet, take with a massive grain of of salt arguments made from bias-confirming zealotry versus objective evidence.
Nearly no one is obsessed with the carnivore diet. Maybe a person in a thousand does it. Most who do use the diet do so so for health to address a health problem, some do it for athletic performance (running on fat means you don't bonk; there is no wall)
It is presented as super masculine, but I'm sure the old Reddit community that called it zero carb were mostly women
Also it's not a high protein diet. I just did the maths for my default meal which by energy* is 76.2% fat 23.8% protein
* Not that we can get significant energy from protein. I don't think it should even be in the energy calculation on food labels. A human who tries to live on protein (and whatever supplements to keep healthy) starves. Body builders used to (and probably still do) protein sparing modified fasts - eating lean protein to avoid the body burning muscle to feed the nervous system while fasting. They do it to achieve the same as of a fast — to radically reduce body fat. Protein is hardly energy when people use it to help them starve themselves thin
I'm obsessed with the carnivore diet because it works, you can evaluate its effectiveness in just a few days/weeks - it's the single simplest diet for maintaining health. It's biggest super power isn't meat, its removal of all the variables that could be hurting you - It's an amazing elimination diet tool.
And, its quite inexpensive, i'm saving so much money. I can't see how a corporation makes money from promoting zero carb, the strict carnivores don't each much, they don't spend much, and they like to buy locally produced meat anyway... they are very bad customers.
Just to give an example to make a point, smoking cigarettes achieve similar results: more energy, lower weight, better cognition in the short term. Doesn't mean it's better for you!
I can give you diet instructions proven to do the same not only in the short term but the long term as well. Most carnivore benefits share some benefits with many other scientifically proven better diets, but the benefits subside drastically after mere months to a year typically.
The nutritional deficits and anti-nutrients associated culminate to exacerbate health issues in the longterm.
There is no scientific peer reviewed consensus support for carnivore diet. If you need an elimination diet there are also better diet. If it's temporary and works for you to figure out sensitivities, just exercise caution!
Please cite scientific peer reviewed studies backing your claims. Science isn't litigated by consensus.
What specific claim I made are you interested in to start? Please give 1-3. I'd rather not do a wild goose chase of moving goalposts.
Litigated among experts? Probably not. The problem is your use To Litigate inherently, circularly, suggests dispute; but of course, if you have significant consensus, then there is also little to no dispute and thus little to no litigation. Scientific Consensus is absolutely a pillar nonetheless. Especially among laypersons. Peer-review by way of Systematic Reviews deploying meta-analysis, and especially albeit not limited to Cochrane studies do tend to attempt to draw consensus. These further reinforced when medical experts associations (e.g., AHA, AMA, AND) and regulatory agencies crafting food guidelines follow suit. From Canada to Norway (both outperforming US in health outcomes, generally) none of these dispute the findings, nor recommend anything remotely close to a Carnivore Diet for this reason.
Expert consensus was key in overcoming the deluge of conspiracy theory misinformation propaganda originating largely from right-wing sources on matters ranging from Climate Change, to Vaccinations during the coronavirus pandemic; and just like these two, so too is the misinformation surrounding diet originating significantly from far-right and pro-business sources as opposed to any threshold of scientific peer-review one would deem consensus.
Nobody said it better than Bertrand Russell, that when the conglomeration of expert belief and evidence points to a certain conclusion, then the layperson would be wise to follow.
Edit: I see now why the perplexing skepticism, given one moderates "Friendly Carnivore", as well as "Low Carb High Fat - Ketogenic"
You have done very definite beliefs there
I doubt you can find better. I've been in online zero carb communities for long enough to have heard everything people have said this diet mitigates. I have never heard such a list for low carb, for example, nor from low fat or mediterranean.
The moderator of /r/zerocarb had been doing the diet for about 7 years when I was there regularly. I have been eating only meat for three years and am not feeling any ill effects.
Deficits? What nutrient isn't found in beef? Cows are made of the same stuff as us. Anti nutrients? That's a thing plants do - lock up nutrients to make them hard to extract; packaging them with anti nutrients to remove the benefit of eating them. Animals don't engage in chemical warfare against the things that eat them, cows use horns and hooves. Plants use chemicals. Nothing wants to be eaten.
Great, where is the rct data?
This doesn't match the literature i have read at all, as long as the fat metabolism is maintained so are the benefits.
There are no demonstrated deficits, and what anti-nutrients are you referring to? The only anti-nutrients i'm aware of are in plant foods.
That isn't saying much, there are no RCTs for any diet. Keto is the diet with the most publication papers on it
Why does it need to be temporary? I'm cautious, what should i be looking for?
Yes, RCTs do exist. I'm curious why one denies such an easily-found claim. Have you done much research yourself into this topic?
In their conclusion, for emphasis:
Epidemiological evidence is further considerably high and most beneficial in matters related to diet and longevity or health outcomes, given the statistical long-term focus capacity of these types of studies. The two are thus very much complementary in the world of nutrition study.
These further reinforced when medical experts associations (e.g., AHA, AMA, AND) and regulatory agencies crafting food guidelines follow suit. These expert associations all have a strong leaning toward promoting a diet closely adherent to the Mediterranean or DASH diet, and much further away from something like a carnivore diet, paleo, caveman, keto, etc.
I think most importantly, is by contrast limited to no RCTs or corroborating epidemiological studies indicating carnivore diet outperforming other diets, let alone as found by systematic peer review, cochrane studies performing meta-analysis.
Side note but have you heard of Blue Zones? Highest concentrations of populations of centenarians? Their diets have nothing in common with Carnivore Diet.
To the contrary:
Precisely as I originally stated. What "literature you read" goes counter to this conclusion?
Carnivore diet tends to be lacking in a host of micro and phyto-nutrients, ranging from Vitamin C, Potassium, fiber, folate, thiamin (b-vitamins), and maybe in my opinion the most important, antioxidants given the anti-nutrient properties of NOCs, LPOs, HCAs, and PAHs one is commonly exposed to on this diet (leaving aside Neu5Gc, which I need to do more research on). There's a reason why the link between red meat and colorectal cancer is strongly established in meta-analysis peer reviewed literature, and that Red Meat and Processed red meats are Class 2A and 1 carcinogens as defined by the WHO.
Kidney stones, appendicitis risk all increase under these diets as well; and possibly gallbladder inflammation and stones as well.
Look I've been both meat eater and vegetarian over my life. I'm not super into pissing contests over this, I'm just trying to help you out. To this day I practice vegetarianism but slightly counter to that, I am actually convinced of the scientific literature and widespread consensus that some variation of a whole foods mostly plant-based diet with a little bit of fish like the Mediterranean or DASH diet are optimal. This is what I recommend to my aging parents and what I have my children on. I'm just saying, don't fall for the immediate pitfall because I noticed you deflected my valid point as to the short-term benefits of. If you've got tunnel-vision on body-weight, then there is less risk associated with just taking GLP-1 (though you could just up your fiber intake and probably get the same result once your microbiome adapts; farting is generally not a bad thing).
Again while there are a few short-term benefits to the carnivore diet in terms of weight-loss and brain fog, these are not unique inclusive to carnivore diet that cannot be found elsewhere; and at the same time, there are lost nutrients and elevated risks associated therewith that aren't found in other diets. So why do it?
What specific evidence let you to choose Carnivore Diet over something like DASH or Mediterranean Diet? Are you drawn to it as a result of taste preference?
I'll leave you with one final thing to note. The following study was conducted in partnership with 5 different universities across multiple countries in a 30 year follow-up, and the dietary patterns revealed therefrom:
I'm guessing you haven't actually read the study you just cited.
The RCT you cite did not have a zero carb arm, or a ketogenic arm, so it is not a RCT that backs up your claim that carnivore has been offset by better science, i.e. no RCT of carnivore and your pet diet. Your study is not actually a RCT, it's not a controlled trial, it uses the PREDIMED data over 8 years - the population was at risk elder dwelling community members for CVD. The study was verified with food frequency questionnaires. The three groups in the study were 1. "control" low fat, 2. MD + olive oil 3. MD + nuts; AT BEST - this study can inform you of associations (not causation) of people doing best effort low fat vs medeterrian. To be clear this study does not resolve questions about optimal or best diets, which you implied. It's not a controlled study, verification of diet adherence is problematic in FFQs.
Just because people haven't collected the data it doesn't make observational epidemiology any more relevant to inform on cause and effect.
Clearly we have different standards for evidence in science - https://hackertalks.com/post/15439661
Before proceeding further, please acknowledge one moved the goalpost:
From: "there are no RCT studies for any diet" --> to "there ARE in fact RCT studies indicating efficacy of Mediterranean Diet in isolation."
If one cannot acknowledge this, then clearly we have a different understanding of logical fallacies (blanket statements, goalpost moving, strawman) and without a basic foundation of logic I have no interest going further.
Edit: Bonus:
That's fair, there was a RCT of MED vs Low fat, but in the context of our conversation: it doesn't prove a scientifically better diet then carnivore. And epidemiology is hardly a RCT, not real controls in this trial.
Regardless we are not going to have a productive discussion, i wish you well, but i'm calling it here.
What's going on in the chart at the end? Fast food looks greener than legumes.
I was wondering that, too. I think the category is possibly too general. "Fast and fried foods" may point to, say, an Asian stir fry place, like a Mongolian grill or Thai place full of vegetables, seafood, etc. as opposed to say, McDonald's (and note where french fries and meat are by comparison). Why it's out of order relative to the other green-rated foods with positive outcomes, I'm not sure -- but maybe it's a matter of weighing the total number of samples within that category (and thus it has a lower significant difference)?
Seeing Wine higher than Tea was also interesting to me, but there is a known social element to longevity, leaving aside a lack of control for added sugars in coffee and tea in this.
I agree.
I wasn't so surprised by tea / coffee because most people add sugar and diary to it. Like you said, alcohol is associated with diseases like cancer but it does reduce stress and helps you bond with others.
Of course there is little research on the zero carb diet. There are few people using it. The only stuff I'm aware of is on the specific health problems the diet seems to fix, the only controlled study I know of was on the heart health impacts of the diet (people on zero carb who exercise a lot have very high LDL cholesterol. We now know that cholesterol in that population is not associated with cardiac plaques)
Studies are rare because nearly no one follows the diet so governments don't care, there's no money from the meat industry for diet science, and unlike plant based diets there's no large religion promoting the diet.
I like how Lemmy is so insular and fuckin weird it now projects its own beliefs on regular people and then gets upset at them
This place is fucked
This video is the only reasonable answer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8XKFfzBjS4
We're idiots
One reason is that our dairy industry needs to find a way to sell a gazillion tons of excess whey protein.
Theyre already swallowing Trumps loads so why not?
https://crust.piefed.social/c/[email protected]/p/127368/scientists-recycle-plastic-bottles-into-protein-rich-cookies-would-eat-in-a-dire
Muscle loss
ozempic, and it's global.
in my country there is a "shortage" of protein and the cost of protein powders has almost doubled. i'm not sure there actually is a shortage, there are bulk supplement shops fucking everywhere and countless online retailers. the market will bear what people are willing to pay. more gouging in tough times.
You're like 30 years behind the protein train.
It's been a thing since the mid 90's.
A thing for people who go to the gym and want to lift...
Advertising protein in chocolate bars, coco pops and regular bread has only become a 'thing' in the last few years
Manosphere dudebros.
Pink products tell you they have protein. The dudebros advertise to you, not to everyone
I think because proton can't be stored as fat, and A LOT of shit has fillers that are basically just carbs. So by saying 'high protein" it means you're actually buying meat, not some soy mixed crap.
protein molecules can't be stored as fat, but their energy can be.
not really; people eating only high protein don't gain weight, they starve and die. Rabbit starvation i think its called.
eating protein by itself cannot meaningfully be stored as fat.
Yes, there is a process called gluconeogenesis that can use a tiny amount of protein to create the bodies background blood glucose target, but that isn't relevant here. This is very easy to demonstrate, put a CGM on and only eat protein (no fat, no carbs) and you wont see a rise in blood glucose. Without a rise in blood glucose there is nothing for the fat cells to take up (they don't take up protein)