And AI code is intrinsically bad because is fundamentally impossible to understand (yeah, I mean literally). You just can understand what you actually put your effort to comprehend, reason and write by yourself. They're just delegating their reasoning to a machine.
AI is just stolen code. It's often similar quality to human output
I once tried to remake one of my projects using AI. When I gave it the requirements, it damn near recreated the project exactly how I made it. It was probably referencing my exact project, which would have been its training data, but it was a bit weird how well it did it
It was not, "fundamentally impossible to understand" either figuratively or literally
I’m not totally convinced that his behavior in the past is a reflection on what is to come. He is at this point still refusing to answer questions about licensing LLM generated code and such and has apparently been obfuscating LLM commits. That doesn’t sound like somebody who is committed to results so much as it sounds like somebody giving into AI brainrot.
He's also human, for example he hypothetically could use AI to offset a disability like dementia - a totally reasonable emotional response, but also not who I want controlling global cyber security.
Last I heard though all AI commits were a separate branch, I wasn't aware of any sneakiness.
Clearly he doesn't care about results because he slop coded with antigravity rather than reading documentation for a python side-project. I imagine his younger self would be cussing his older self out for shipping things he literally doesn't understand.
The reason for his actions are much simpler: he got paid. He gets paid from the linux foundation which receives a lump sum from AI companies. In 2024 Linus said AI was just Hype, but then the foundation received millions in funds from the AI companies.
If he cared about results he would have written the damn things himself.
You're going to argue that some new never before seen trove of uncontaminated training data was discovered? Perhaps you think the AI Scaling Laws don't exist? Businesses that adopted AI dropped it or went out of business not long after, it's as useless today as it was in the 1980s.
Interesting. I’ve used Mac for years and for the last 2 or 3, macOS has really gone downhill. What line of work are you in that bans windows? The entire point of windows is enterprise management, which macOS is famously bad at.
A friend who did a lot of presentations said: always have backups for everything.
spare laptop
duplicates of all kinds of connectors & cables
projector and external speakers (if all in-person audience)
know of any other available rooms nearby
copies of presentation on USB and online
etc.
I went on a business trip with him once, and we all carried 2 bags each of equipment. Last I heard, he ended up working for a large entertainment company in LA.
I haven't used Windows in years, but it's kind of funny to remember because my Linux machines take at most 5 minutes to update (even with a hundred packages to update), and only require a restart if something important happens, and even in that case I can postpone the reboot.
Nowadays, a lot of Linux distributions like Ubuntu, for example, will do an update and then tell you that you should reboot, even if a reboot isn't strictly necessary. You can still ignore and postpone, but I think most users will see this as very similar to Windows.
Except for the fact that you can still use your computer while it's updating. And it only takes one reboot (which takes the same amount of time as any other reboot) to apply the updates. And you have to actually tell your computer that you want to reboot. It's really not like windows at all.
Windows machines frequently do updates without a reboot nowadays and you can usually postpone an update to a more convenient time.
The problem is that when an update that requires a restart is waiting, it changes the standard restart button into one that does an update and restart. You can often fall into muscle memory and accidentally trigger an update.
When combined with the fact that you quite often get problems that go away with a reboot you can easily get yourself into OP’s position where they’re waiting for an update to finish at a really inconvenient time.
remember because my Linux machines take at most 5 minutes to update
I keep kicking myself because I'm using fedora Kinoite on my slowest machine.
It's going to get arch eventually, but for now it's just annoying whenever I go to use it for a few minutes until it finishes the update.
Seriously, this right here is why I stopped using windows for work and switched to linux for professional reasons. Windows is not serious business software because of shit like this.
Hell, this is why I went out of my way to make sure I could control updates for my personal machine where the only consequences of it doing a random update would be that I can't use it until it's done. I didn't even ever have it actually do an annoying update because the frustration was obvious as soon as I heard the term "automatic updates", like this isn't just for some program, it's for the OS itself and will demand restarts.
And that isn't even mentioning the undesirable updates, like the buggy ones or the ones that just enshitify your OS rather than add anything anyone wants, like all those windows 7 "get ready for windows 10" ones and apparently some people even got an automatic "7 to 10" update.
And then on Linux, every part of updating is nicer, other than the supply chain attacks (which is unfortunately serious enough I could see it threatening the entire Linux ecosystem itself).
IT guy here. When you finally can respond or join the meeting, make sure you cover yourself in feathers from a pillow and blame a duck gang for your misfortune.
Make one right now. Stick it on your keychain. Then you will be prepared to at least boot into Linux on a moment's notice. Should probably also have a look around and figure out how to show a presentation on there or do whatever you might need to suddenly do there.
Or well just have Linux installed in the first place. Preferably NixOS because you can just roll back to a previous configuration if something goes wrong.
And then spend an hour trying to get the presentation to run the way you made it. I love Linux, but installing Linux here in this time sensitive situation is definitely not the move for someone who has Windows already installed and their presentation completed and saved, presumably because they don't know enough about Linux to confidently switch over completely. Some will probably be able to get out of that situation unscathed, but not most.
I know there are large organisations where the laptops are configured to also update their firmware when users are trying to get out the door at the end of the day and the outsourced ICT teams couldn't care less.
Microsoft continues to be the best advocate for migrating to Linux.
When it happened to one of my students at least I was able to play it off and make fun of Windows instead of embarrassing them. But I also give full credit on presentations regardless of how bad they go.
That said, woe is you if it's literally anything else, like a conference or a business meeting. Lol
Only for the presentation itself, there's a written part that has a rubric. With presentations, the social aspect is enough to get people to do as well as they can because most people prefer not to look like an idiot in front of the class.
Yeah, rule of thumb: you need your Windows PC to be available 100% at a close future point? update it now, reboot, and then disable networking if possible.
Also pause updates, it doesn't stop all updates but it does avoid most of the forced reboot Micro$lop dishes out for weeks at a time. Disabling networking is ideal, no doubt, including the telemetry spam.
You have to ignore the updates for a while before it will force reboot during your normal working hours.
If it’s left alone overnight yeah it might reboot on you the day the patch came out. But if your active hours are set to something same it’s never rebooted on me.
Yeah enterprise images are set to default as 8am active time. If someone leaves their machine on they'll switch to an inactive state at like 8pm or whatever you configured, and do the updates at like 2am and you should never need to know anything about it if something doesn't break.
Not every setup is done well though, ive have several coworkers and I have Mac OS and Windows images want to force a reboot during work hours, 99% of the time it is either the user never allows the machine to be on when it isn't in use, or IT dropped the ball on the image.
If you're forced to use Windows, you can minimise the amount of disruption from updates by remembering:
they're only released on Tuesdays, so you can make sure you get several days without interruption by installing them on Wednesdays
there's a pause updates for seven days button in Settings that you can use if there's a Tuesday between now and when you're going to definitely need the computer to be available
It's much easier to plan around them when you know when they're coming.
I don't know if OP says this anywhere, but if it's a company laptop then MAYBE updates are whenever IT feels like it... And you cannot pause updates unless IT feels like offering that to you... AND only for particular updates...
I know you're not trying to be mean IT but sometimes you hurt me
Managed corporate computers give IT departments control over when updates are released to users and installed. They're usually later than the MS schedule to give more time for testing. Good departments will follow some sort of regular predictable schedule, but bad ones can just drop updates randomly.
Windows 11 26H2 is actually a bit better with this anyway… it hangs on to updates that need reboots (instead of installing them straight away), so you only have to do an update-reboot once a month.
I think you can pause updates for longer as well. It might even be indefinitely but I've never bothered to look into it.
Not only this, but Windows as a whole doesn't force you to restart until you hit the 7-day mark after the update was installed(unless you have the idle reboot setting on). So you have a whole seven days after installing your update to restart on your own time. That way it isn't restarting in the middle of your presentation.
Sometimes it’s simply about being taken seriously.
I’m a very busy person without a lot of time to play video games. If I sit down to play (and on Linux!), I’m absolutely not willing to spend extra time waiting on OS updates. It’s great that I can configure my system to respect my time and never interrupt me if that’s what I wish on a device solely used for electronic card games.
It does exactly what I tell it to do, and that’s great.
We had a finance troll run into our IT department asking "how do I stop a service pack update!?" This was back in the XP days. She had a presentation in 15 minutes and had not turned the laptop on in over a year.
Our answer?
You don't. You should have started preparing it yesterday.
She was PISSED! But her even more evil boss had ruined all her political capitol over all the other things she failed to prepare for.
Always have a jump drive or some other backup of your presentation ready to drop on another computer. I have had this exact thing happen during an important presentation.
Obviously there's a hundred joke comments about using Linux but it if you already had a ventoy USB lying around, it would unironically be faster to liveboot a distro, install libre office and then prsent your pptx (or log into google slides and do the same).
The way my org does it, I get a pop up saying my computer will be forcibly restarted when the countdown reaches zero. It’s typically an 8 hour timer. And the dialog can’t be minimized. If you move it, it moves back to the lower right every minute or so.
I've been trying to get off PP for presentations, but everything else I've used has it's issues
LaTeX Beamer: My alternative go-to; but it requires Tex to be installed to make changes; so it's locked to your computer. Plus most people don't know how to write LaTeX (let alone program), so just for solo presentations
LibreOffice Impress: A close alternative, but I find theming breaks a lot between systems (background / font colors primarily IIRC)
Web-based presentation software: requires you to be online, and you generally can't download the presentations for offline use / archiving
I had to set up a group policy to turn it off. Even defen-dor ignores group policy rules half the time. I probably should set up router rules to black list it all.
We had an email sent out yesterday morning saying that a critical update was being pushed out to all windows devices and would require a reboot within an hour of the time of the email.
Personally I disable auto updates and only update when I decide I want to, nothing worse than getting stradled with an update when u need quick access to ur computer!
Interesting. Never had it ignoreded on my PC, my laptop, or my SO's PC. The more time I spend in lemmy comment threads the more I think I ought to buy a lottery ticket due to the complete lack of issues I have on windows compared to apperantly everybody else...
This is pretty much my only consistent problem with Windows. It refuses to let me choose when to update. Though I generally only notice that it's happened when I try to get to my jellyfin server. Other than that, it's been pretty much issue free. Lemmy leans pretty hard towards the tech sector and there's a hate boner for Windows that is at least somewhat justified but for most users it's not really an issue.
Microsoft releases their updates (except really time critical security updates) during Patch Tuesday, the second Tuesday of each month.
You can delay restarting after updates do the initial install, which it does in the background after downloading by default, for 7 days before it starts pushing you. The restart is needed when files that are currently in use need updating, not all updates require that.
At any point you can also schedule an update time for it to finish the install. And you can set active hours for it to not update during times when you usually use your system.
If you continue to ignore finishing the update process, it will eventually consider it critical (after like a month of delayed updates) and will force an update on its own because you've been delaying it for so long, you are not attempting to schedule it, and you are not telling the system to pause updates. So you're literally ignoring every option given to you to manage updates.
Your system "randomly" updating means you are not utilizing the options to schedule and plan times the system can regularly update, AND are not keeping your system anywhere near up to date manually.
Are you still running Windows 7 or something? Because my experience with Windows 11 and updates is exactly the same. Windows 11 basically does whatever the fuck it wants and any settings or preferences around updates is frequently ignored.
That’s reality. Deal with it. That genie is out of the bottle. You’re not getting it back. And you’re not getting it back whether you are a photographer who’s out of work. Those things are gone, right? Because you can fake pictures so much better now. Or you’re a programmer that has to learn to deal with a new reality.
Torvalds’s first publicly released chatbot code was in January this year, when he vibe-coded a project in Python because he didn’t know enough Python. The programming language kids learn in high school. The guy who runs the kernel couldn’t get his head around Python.
This is NOT some kind of “social warrior” project, never has been, and never will be.
“Social warrior” there is a version of the phrase “social justice warrior”, which is mainly used as a far-right dog-whistle. It was the one they used before “woke” or “DEI.” There is no way Torvalds doesn’t know what he was saying there.
We are completely overwhelmed, of course. The glimmer of hope is that we secured sufficient LLM budget and access (thank you Meta!) to run reviews with multiple frontier models on each patch. This eliminates some hallucinations.
Remember to praise Meta any time you boot your machine.
Windows doesn't take it as a suggestion until the 7 day mark of it waiting for a restart. Or if the update is marked critically late which I believe is 1-3 months after update release(?). if you are either shutting down or rebooting your computer every couple of days, you're not going to run into this issue.
The only time I've ever run into the issue of Windows forcing an update was when I switched to Linux and kept Windows as a secondary OS. Because now instead of running the OS and shutting it down daily, I'm running the OS maybe every seven or eight months, so by the time it installs the updates, it's already hit that threshold of you need to install these updates now.
The user-facing options only allow you to delay updates for up to a month. There is no way to permanently disable automatic updates from there.
If you are a power user, there are ways that use things like group policy, registry keys, etc.
But you may not have access to those if you are on a work or school computer, as that is managed by your IT team.
Yes, you can. I hate Windows and its eagerness to update whenever, but that behaviour is configurable.
In the Windows Update settings, under Advanced options, disable "⏩ Get me up to date" then set your "Active hours" to "Manually" then set an 18 hour block that doesn't conflict with your work day, like 6 am till midnight. At least in theory, you'll only get updates applied when you deliberately reboot or leave your machine on overnight.
Edit: if you're really keen, you can use a tool like O&O ShutUp10 (it works on 11, too), or edit the registry to completely disable auto updates.
What a strange response. You've said that deferring updates can't be done on Windows. It's plain factually incorrect. You're literally quoting that policy can control it but saying it can't be controlled, but you see no contradiction. Real enterprise uses WSUS, which absolutely can defer updates, it's one of the main selling points.
Not everyone uses that, and group policy is sufficient for plenty of orgs. The link in my earlier comment clearly explains how policy and registry settings can avoid OP's problem, so "no you can't" alone, is a ridiculous and incorrect response. That there exist cases where enterprise makes it more difficult does not mean that it is not possible. It's arguably easier with enterprise because IT can push those settings out to everyone and make sure no one has those interruptions.
Your IT dept. has to be pretty shit if they're controlling those policies but not setting basic work hours. Turning off that restart asap crap is the norm, because management/c-suite get pissed off by random restarts and immediately blame IT.
I only have it in the VM but even there I tried all kinds of things like hacks in the registry and all kinds of services disabled only to discover sometime later that it tried to update.
I just set it read only so that it just can't do that now, anymore. It's such a virus...
Lol I just got home. The update (25h2) finished 55 minutes after I posted this. Which obviously coincided with the moment I finished my presentation.
I used my boss's laptop to connect to the beamer & give the presentation.
Years back when I used windows the 'shutdown' and 'shutdown and update' acted the fucking same most of the time. Shit was driving me up the fucking wall.
Don't leave security updates hanging for over a week then. That's when the system starts trying to actively fix your inability to utilize ANY of the update delay and scheduling options included in the OS.
Microsoft and many other companies release updates literally the second Tuesday of each month. The update cycle is so common and decades old that there is literally a name for it, Patch Tuesday.
Because windows ever informed me of anything like that instead of using dark patterns to force things on me without any elaboration. And windows is full of stuff like this whilist providing the users much much less control than linux. I've been conditioned to expect no settings for things I want on windows and the settings that are actually there to be overwriten by windows at any time without again, informing me in any way or caring about my consent. Not to mention that the settings UX is a big mess on windows and are a PITA to use.
It literally has a link in the notification box telling you it needs to restart, to help you schedule a time and adjust active hours, and explains what that means without having to go to an online help page.
When you alt+f4 then enter, that is the default option if update is available. Makes sense when OP accidentally pressing it, i know i did it a lot of time. Sometime update upon starting is fast, but i guess OP had one of those update.
ease yourself into linux with ubuntu which has an install for most of the same software as windows uses and when youre ready you can go full FOSS on a deeper linux os.
Luckily i work-around that handicap by installing virtualbox and working inside linux vms all day (my project's the only multi-os one). I still get forced host upgrades though.
the default for some distributions these days is to apply updates on restarts (which produce win-like update progress screens) instead of 'immediately' (and leaving a kernel update hanging and waiting for one). it is also often a user-configurable option for handling updates.
here's fedora, as an example:
and if you tell your linux to install updates 'automatically', they will come in.. ya know, automatically.. like windows. i've yet to see one 'force' a restart, though.. like windows likes to do.
Correct. I have a dual boot with windows and when I rebooted to Linux I got stuck installing updates. I'm not particularly opposed to the idea of automatic updates, but I am vehemently against blocking entire computer use while it occurs w/o a way to cancel. I was also mad that to my knowledge this was the default and not an option in feature.
Putting aside that windows will simply forget updates when it decides to, users should not have to beg their own pc to not do something they didn't choose to do.
You’re wrong twice in one sentence. Windows gives you lots of opportunities to deal with updating on your own schedule. Updates shouldn’t be optional, else we have huge botnets running around.
Windows takes ultimate authority on too many questions without asking or informing users about that. It is wrong by default and leads to a lot of predictable problems and UX drgradation. To the point Microsoft managed to make people be anxious about updates, wanting to stop them.
The amount of people complaining about update scheduling is statistically insignificant in the real world. Lemmy and other tech communities are an echo chamber.
It's because this thread is filled with Linux bros. Windows scheduling updates at night and gives you weeks to prepare. It's even funnier seeing people say osx doesn't do this...it absolutely does. It will run an update if you wait to long and it takes just as long usually. Linux sure won't do this, but the majority of people have no clue how to use Linux and it's unfortunately not part of the corporate world in mass, and probably never will for workstations because of it's steeper learning curve.
As a Windows bro who learned Linux exists and can be used by a jock like me just two years ago, I don't think you and me remember the time these mandatory updates arrived in the same way. I remember that as a young and stupid person a decade or more ago I did my worst to disable them initially, for they clogged the HDD drive I had at the time and made my machine unreliable whenever I wanted to game on it. That it didn't schedule update tasks all that well for they are shut down when they aren't in use.
As a more conscious individual, I apply all of them on initial install, but still keep myself cautious about them, for my growing fleet of machines has a couple of edge cases where it breaks core functionality unless prevented. One next security update on that exact version of Office we use disables autofill-on-drag in Excel - it's a bug that never got fixed and is unaffected by ticking corresponding menu items; systems with multiple vcards of different generations get corrupted for Windows loads drivers to the latest ones without a nickel of care if older ones support that; oh, and I didn't mention how Windows Update also loads unneded apps and straight up spyware while also randomly disabling apps that worked before update.
Linux sucks for major software vendors don't care about it, except select projects and companies. At the time of writing, I don't think there would be any problem in booting some Rocky Linux desktop and downloading programs for an industry professional. The lack of familiar software supporting Linux right now would hit them earlier than anything linux-related. I am an Adobe bitch, and acclimatization to new tools doesn't go without friction. But I adore one simple and little thing: that, just like my video hardware, once I plug in a Linux machine into my production pipeline, it behaves in a predictable fashion and doesn't do anything by itself.
For it not to feel like a thing of my spoiled imagination, a lot of providers of paid niche software got onto always-online licensing, and then started to sell usb keys for those who want their production machine to function as desired even offline. The need to have the same environment boot after boot is what can lead some teams to abandon Windows altogether. By I'm with you in thinking that it's a niche case.
I serve lotsa untechy people who are annoyed by these updates for reasons as practical as "this PC does not follow my command to wake up or shut down immediately". Sometimes they have older hardware that struggles with it (like if they have a HDD for a system drive as the worst case), sometimes they shut it down mid update being jn a hurry, they all do want their machine to function as a VHS player that is persistent between boots and just works. You are right that most people don't dance around our ideological campfires, that they don't understand the discourse around frequent updates at all, but as end users they get a frustrating expirience that often my clients shrug when I mention Windows Update for they already encountered at least one case of it randomly popping up when they were unprepared and didn't want it.
Yet, I agree that it is insignificant for Microsoft, as they kept it that way even for pro users for more than a decade.
It is a different topic than my initial argument but I don't mind to explore that branch.
I disagree. Updates SHOULD be optional, as long as you own your PC. Now, for a work PC, where your employer actually owns it, it's them who decide what's optional and what's not. In that context, I think it's every IT department's responsibility to ensure security updates are pushed out and applied.
it's the sneaky 'update and ...' options that get added to the poweroff submenu that often get in the way to produce unexpected 'updates' during a boot.
If you have to carry such a mental load to manage a tool that should enable what you do, instead of blatantly getting in your way, then it's a bad and ineffective tool.
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Do you have a few minutes to talk about our Lord and Saviour, Linus Torvalds?
Just opened the thread to make sure someone was spreading the good word.
Would you look at the time! Tux o'clock already!
Yeah but Linux isn't viable for me because [very obscure bug that was fixed in 2014]
i can backup my home computer, reinstall the entire OS, all apps, restore all the data, faster than a single Windows Update takes on my work machine
Their computer is installing updates, sure they have a few minutes.
Our Linus, who art from Finland, Hallowed be thy kernel.
He's been in California for decades.
But he's from Finland.
Linux users in their natural habitat, obscure online forums.
Observe how they nitpick minor technicalities between themselves, a hallmark sign of affection among their kind.
Iirc he's in Oregon.
Didn't he jump on the AI bandwagon?
No, he said AI may be used for assistance in kernel commits, but the same code quality and comprehensibility as before AI is required.
He cares about the output, not it you got some code snippet from ai or stackoverflow.
That's a "yes, but", not a "no".
And AI code is intrinsically bad because is fundamentally impossible to understand (yeah, I mean literally). You just can understand what you actually put your effort to comprehend, reason and write by yourself. They're just delegating their reasoning to a machine.
Also, Why not LLMs?
AI is just stolen code. It's often similar quality to human output
I once tried to remake one of my projects using AI. When I gave it the requirements, it damn near recreated the project exactly how I made it. It was probably referencing my exact project, which would have been its training data, but it was a bit weird how well it did it
It was not, "fundamentally impossible to understand" either figuratively or literally
If I don't find an anti-AI kernel fork I might be moving to NetBSD soon. That sucks, I hate moving to a new OS.
Linus has always prioritized results over ideological purity. Which is why Linux runs the world whereas BSD is still just a niche project.
I’m not totally convinced that his behavior in the past is a reflection on what is to come. He is at this point still refusing to answer questions about licensing LLM generated code and such and has apparently been obfuscating LLM commits. That doesn’t sound like somebody who is committed to results so much as it sounds like somebody giving into AI brainrot.
He's also human, for example he hypothetically could use AI to offset a disability like dementia - a totally reasonable emotional response, but also not who I want controlling global cyber security.
Last I heard though all AI commits were a separate branch, I wasn't aware of any sneakiness.
Clearly he doesn't care about results because he slop coded with antigravity rather than reading documentation for a python side-project. I imagine his younger self would be cussing his older self out for shipping things he literally doesn't understand.
The reason for his actions are much simpler: he got paid. He gets paid from the linux foundation which receives a lump sum from AI companies. In 2024 Linus said AI was just Hype, but then the foundation received millions in funds from the AI companies.
If he cared about results he would have written the damn things himself.
I'm no vibecoder but between 2024 and now, LLMs also got much better. It might not have been the money that changed his mind.
LLMs either hit a wall or got worse, so no.
As much as I'd like that to be true, this is unfortunately not the case...
You're going to argue that some new never before seen trove of uncontaminated training data was discovered? Perhaps you think the AI Scaling Laws don't exist? Businesses that adopted AI dropped it or went out of business not long after, it's as useless today as it was in the 1980s.
I'm not sure I'd call permissive licensing "ideological purity" compared to copyleft.
Frankly, I think BSD loses because corporations are legally allowed to take and never give back.
That and BSD was almost BSD™ by AT&T™.
Lost all its momentum at probably its most valuable growth opportunity to a single dev.
A lot of people very recently are already jumping ship from Linux so it appears a new most valuable growth opportunity has arrived.
OUCH
Me with my media library laptop on 58 days of uptime, chugging along like nothing is wrong
Windows isn't ready for daily driving imo, it's risky to use such an unstable OS for high importance tasks.
It's fine if you want to tinker and experiment with a different OS, but for day to day usage I think you should really be using something more stable.
…this has to be a BSD guy talking.
No, where I work we use macs. Everyone has a Mac and our policys prohibit windows as a work os
macOS is practically a BSD though (XNU is a modified Mach microkernel with a BSD layer bolted on top of it)
Modern macOS has diverged significantly from its bsd origins.
Interesting. I’ve used Mac for years and for the last 2 or 3, macOS has really gone downhill. What line of work are you in that bans windows? The entire point of windows is enterprise management, which macOS is famously bad at.
We work in health data, but we also done have enterprise management.
When a review was done about 6 years ago, windows was a big risk in how we work
Oh yea, windows is a huge risk, but convincing management and IT not to use it is a monumental task.
I actually work with health data too and we upgraded to win11 micro PCs and it’s not going well.
I'm in the IT/systems team and where I work we make the rules on what you can use, then have the power to make it apply to everyone even directors.
But then I don't have a manager, it's a flat structure.
I remember during the last big win11 update i defined active hours which was recommended by Microsoft to do so it only updates outside of work hours.
Only for it to get reset without notification so all workstations started updating in the middle of work when left idle
I*
Windows isn't ready for the desktop.
You shouldnt put a window on your desk top. A penguin would fit nicely, though...
No, you don't. Shhhh.
Simple rules of thumb:
Never use windows for presentations.
Never use powerpoint for presentations.
Never use your own profile for presentations.
Always have a synced version to a URL that you can refer the audience to if the projector fails or doesnt like your computer.
But yeah, that sucks.
A friend who did a lot of presentations said: always have backups for everything.
I went on a business trip with him once, and we all carried 2 bags each of equipment. Last I heard, he ended up working for a large entertainment company in LA.
I haven't used Windows in years, but it's kind of funny to remember because my Linux machines take at most 5 minutes to update (even with a hundred packages to update), and only require a restart if something important happens, and even in that case I can postpone the reboot.
Good luck anyway!
Nowadays, a lot of Linux distributions like Ubuntu, for example, will do an update and then tell you that you should reboot, even if a reboot isn't strictly necessary. You can still ignore and postpone, but I think most users will see this as very similar to Windows.
Except for the fact that you can still use your computer while it's updating. And it only takes one reboot (which takes the same amount of time as any other reboot) to apply the updates. And you have to actually tell your computer that you want to reboot. It's really not like windows at all.
Windows machines frequently do updates without a reboot nowadays and you can usually postpone an update to a more convenient time.
The problem is that when an update that requires a restart is waiting, it changes the standard restart button into one that does an update and restart. You can often fall into muscle memory and accidentally trigger an update.
When combined with the fact that you quite often get problems that go away with a reboot you can easily get yourself into OP’s position where they’re waiting for an update to finish at a really inconvenient time.
Not even doing an A/B partition kexec update scheme with VM live migration for all critical services??
Oh wait I'm a stereotype
I keep kicking myself because I'm using fedora Kinoite on my slowest machine. It's going to get arch eventually, but for now it's just annoying whenever I go to use it for a few minutes until it finishes the update.
How is this only midly infuriating.
OP has embraced their inner calm
Stockholm syndrome.
The niceness cancels it out
For those still on windows, it's very infuriating. For those that have made the switch, it becomes mildly amusing. Averages out to mildly infuriating.
Seriously, this right here is why I stopped using windows for work and switched to linux for professional reasons. Windows is not serious business software because of shit like this.
Hell, this is why I went out of my way to make sure I could control updates for my personal machine where the only consequences of it doing a random update would be that I can't use it until it's done. I didn't even ever have it actually do an annoying update because the frustration was obvious as soon as I heard the term "automatic updates", like this isn't just for some program, it's for the OS itself and will demand restarts.
And that isn't even mentioning the undesirable updates, like the buggy ones or the ones that just enshitify your OS rather than add anything anyone wants, like all those windows 7 "get ready for windows 10" ones and apparently some people even got an automatic "7 to 10" update.
And then on Linux, every part of updating is nicer, other than the supply chain attacks (which is unfortunately serious enough I could see it threatening the entire Linux ecosystem itself).
Nice that you work at a place that allows that. Self employed?
There are a lot of places that allow Linux in a business/corporate environment
IT guy here. When you finally can respond or join the meeting, make sure you cover yourself in feathers from a pillow and blame a duck gang for your misfortune.
Why not cover yourself with printed out Win11 logos and blame it on Windows Update?
Linux.
Or literally any other OS than Windoze.
In 15 minutes? WOW!
LiveUSB of any distro should be up and running in 2 mins max.
You could probably boot a live USB and transfer your presentation to it in that time.
Problem is you need a live USB stick...
Make one right now. Stick it on your keychain. Then you will be prepared to at least boot into Linux on a moment's notice. Should probably also have a look around and figure out how to show a presentation on there or do whatever you might need to suddenly do there.
Or well just have Linux installed in the first place. Preferably NixOS because you can just roll back to a previous configuration if something goes wrong.
You can install Linux in 5
And update while using it and restart at your own convenience.
4...
And then spend an hour trying to get the presentation to run the way you made it. I love Linux, but installing Linux here in this time sensitive situation is definitely not the move for someone who has Windows already installed and their presentation completed and saved, presumably because they don't know enough about Linux to confidently switch over completely. Some will probably be able to get out of that situation unscathed, but not most.
I don't think they were genuinely expecting the person to install Linux instead of waiting for an update to finish
And yet, they would still be more likely to pull off the presentation in Linux if it’s literally not possible in Windows 😉
Nice.
Nice
Nice
I know there are large organisations where the laptops are configured to also update their firmware when users are trying to get out the door at the end of the day and the outsourced ICT teams couldn't care less.
Microsoft continues to be the best advocate for migrating to Linux.
When it happened to one of my students at least I was able to play it off and make fun of Windows instead of embarrassing them. But I also give full credit on presentations regardless of how bad they go.
That said, woe is you if it's literally anything else, like a conference or a business meeting. Lol
Why would you give full credit regardless of outcome? Nonsensical.
Only for the presentation itself, there's a written part that has a rubric. With presentations, the social aspect is enough to get people to do as well as they can because most people prefer not to look like an idiot in front of the class.
It's mad how many times I've seen people fail their tests in uni because of windows updates
And how many?
Mad.
In rooms of 70 students, at least one would lose half their test time to an update. There were 8 of these sessions per day
Yeah, rule of thumb: you need your Windows PC to be available 100% at a close future point? update it now, reboot, and then disable networking if possible.
Also pause updates, it doesn't stop all updates but it does avoid most of the forced reboot Micro$lop dishes out for weeks at a time. Disabling networking is ideal, no doubt, including the telemetry spam.
You have to ignore the updates for a while before it will force reboot during your normal working hours.
If it’s left alone overnight yeah it might reboot on you the day the patch came out. But if your active hours are set to something same it’s never rebooted on me.
Yeah enterprise images are set to default as 8am active time. If someone leaves their machine on they'll switch to an inactive state at like 8pm or whatever you configured, and do the updates at like 2am and you should never need to know anything about it if something doesn't break.
Not every setup is done well though, ive have several coworkers and I have Mac OS and Windows images want to force a reboot during work hours, 99% of the time it is either the user never allows the machine to be on when it isn't in use, or IT dropped the ball on the image.
If you're forced to use Windows, you can minimise the amount of disruption from updates by remembering:
It's much easier to plan around them when you know when they're coming.
I don't know if OP says this anywhere, but if it's a company laptop then MAYBE updates are whenever IT feels like it... And you cannot pause updates unless IT feels like offering that to you... AND only for particular updates...
I know you're not trying to be mean IT but sometimes you hurt me
Managed corporate computers give IT departments control over when updates are released to users and installed. They're usually later than the MS schedule to give more time for testing. Good departments will follow some sort of regular predictable schedule, but bad ones can just drop updates randomly.
Windows 11 26H2 is actually a bit better with this anyway… it hangs on to updates that need reboots (instead of installing them straight away), so you only have to do an update-reboot once a month.
I think you can pause updates for longer as well. It might even be indefinitely but I've never bothered to look into it.
Not only this, but Windows as a whole doesn't force you to restart until you hit the 7-day mark after the update was installed(unless you have the idle reboot setting on). So you have a whole seven days after installing your update to restart on your own time. That way it isn't restarting in the middle of your presentation.
"I'm afraid I can't let you do that"
I use to have this and other sounds from 2001 as system sounds.
I should do that, that sounds fun
This is why anything I need to do serious work on does not get Windows installed on it. Even OSX doesn’t pull this.
Sometimes it’s simply about being taken seriously.
I’m a very busy person without a lot of time to play video games. If I sit down to play (and on Linux!), I’m absolutely not willing to spend extra time waiting on OS updates. It’s great that I can configure my system to respect my time and never interrupt me if that’s what I wish on a device solely used for electronic card games.
It does exactly what I tell it to do, and that’s great.
Remember this day when you purchase your next computer.
Nice.
69
OP is getting fucked alright.
Too late now but grab a live Linux USB, boot into it to access your presentation and run it in an emergency.
Or just use linux in the first place....
Because most employees get to choose their operating systems.
This post was probably just bait to get a Linux circle jerk going.
Do they want work done or not?
It's your mistake, never schedule a presentation after a patch Tuesday
(I'm joking, fuck this shit, Wednesday I had to fight all the computers "OMG a new update it's out, can I reboot now????")
We had a finance troll run into our IT department asking "how do I stop a service pack update!?" This was back in the XP days. She had a presentation in 15 minutes and had not turned the laptop on in over a year.
Our answer?
You don't. You should have started preparing it yesterday.
She was PISSED! But her even more evil boss had ruined all her political capitol over all the other things she failed to prepare for.
This argument fails if you have a presentation on Patch Tuesday, or if the IT department forces critical updates at a certain day/time.
Even if she used and prepared her presentation the day before, xp could still have done that. It’s bonkers that you can’t decide when updates happen.
No, XP didn't force install the updates, it would just nag.
Buddy of mine lost $1500 in his own hockey pool because of this exact situation....
This was the main readon I switched to Linux. It's my computer so I decide when it's time to update.
My coworker's nursing program made her buy a PoS Dell laptop for 1.4k with windows and presumably a bunch of anti cheat software.
I use Linux, so I don't have this problem 😎
I’ve found fedoras updates are getting kind of windowsy
I just use Mint and call it a day tbh
Always have a jump drive or some other backup of your presentation ready to drop on another computer. I have had this exact thing happen during an important presentation.
Obviously there's a hundred joke comments about using Linux but it if you already had a ventoy USB lying around, it would unironically be faster to liveboot a distro, install libre office and then prsent your pptx (or log into google slides and do the same).
The way my org does it, I get a pop up saying my computer will be forcibly restarted when the countdown reaches zero. It’s typically an 8 hour timer. And the dialog can’t be minimized. If you move it, it moves back to the lower right every minute or so.
I've been trying to get off PP for presentations, but everything else I've used has it's issues
Any recommendations?
I showcase PDFs, there's less compatibility issues and more ways to open it. Animations are out of fashion anyways.
100%. Simple. Straightforward. Bold. Going to look exactly as you intended.
As a viewer, I find animated presentations to be gimmicky. Often feels infomercial-ish, or like a fast food version of professionalism.
After your presentation, be sure to configure active hours so it never happens again.
Unless something has changed, this setting was entirely worthless during Win10
I had to set up a group policy to turn it off. Even defen-dor ignores group policy rules half the time. I probably should set up router rules to black list it all.
You may be right. I've been on Win11 for 5 years now.
Unless that's locked down by enterprise policy.
We had an email sent out yesterday morning saying that a critical update was being pushed out to all windows devices and would require a reboot within an hour of the time of the email.
That would be a corporate directive then, and the company would know PC's are out of commission for 5-10 minutes.
Lol
Thats different because if it were enterprise policy it would happen on windows Mac and linux.
Good thing it does it when you aren't active! Windows #1!
Lol were you my cyber security policy consultant? Because he was late to his own meeting for this very reason yesterday morning.
how it go
We need to know!
Personally I disable auto updates and only update when I decide I want to, nothing worse than getting stradled with an update when u need quick access to ur computer!
Windows views that as a suggestion, and frequently ignores it.
Interesting. Never had it ignoreded on my PC, my laptop, or my SO's PC. The more time I spend in lemmy comment threads the more I think I ought to buy a lottery ticket due to the complete lack of issues I have on windows compared to apperantly everybody else...
This is pretty much my only consistent problem with Windows. It refuses to let me choose when to update. Though I generally only notice that it's happened when I try to get to my jellyfin server. Other than that, it's been pretty much issue free. Lemmy leans pretty hard towards the tech sector and there's a hate boner for Windows that is at least somewhat justified but for most users it's not really an issue.
you can only defer updates, but you cannot prevent them, and yes windows will just randomly update when it chooses to
There's nothing "random" about it.
Microsoft releases their updates (except really time critical security updates) during Patch Tuesday, the second Tuesday of each month.
You can delay restarting after updates do the initial install, which it does in the background after downloading by default, for 7 days before it starts pushing you. The restart is needed when files that are currently in use need updating, not all updates require that.
At any point you can also schedule an update time for it to finish the install. And you can set active hours for it to not update during times when you usually use your system.
If you continue to ignore finishing the update process, it will eventually consider it critical (after like a month of delayed updates) and will force an update on its own because you've been delaying it for so long, you are not attempting to schedule it, and you are not telling the system to pause updates. So you're literally ignoring every option given to you to manage updates.
Your system "randomly" updating means you are not utilizing the options to schedule and plan times the system can regularly update, AND are not keeping your system anywhere near up to date manually.
I disagree
Are you still running Windows 7 or something? Because my experience with Windows 11 and updates is exactly the same. Windows 11 basically does whatever the fuck it wants and any settings or preferences around updates is frequently ignored.
People using AI slop coded Linux just love making up nonsense about Windows (to make themselves feel better about using an AI slop OS)
pretty amazing show of ignorance given that we know windows is pretty proudly vibe-coded now.
Aw dude
https://pivot-to-ai.com/2026/10/14/linux-kernel-goes-full-ai-slop-code-hides-chatbot-commits/
Just remember to say thanks to Meta when you boot from now on.
Smartest windows user be like
Aw dude
https://pivot-to-ai.com/2026/10/14/linux-kernel-goes-full-ai-slop-code-hides-chatbot-commits/
How many trillions did Linux invest in AI again?
Remember to praise Meta any time you boot your machine.
Because Linux sure as shit is.
Windows doesn't take it as a suggestion until the 7 day mark of it waiting for a restart. Or if the update is marked critically late which I believe is 1-3 months after update release(?). if you are either shutting down or rebooting your computer every couple of days, you're not going to run into this issue.
The only time I've ever run into the issue of Windows forcing an update was when I switched to Linux and kept Windows as a secondary OS. Because now instead of running the OS and shutting it down daily, I'm running the OS maybe every seven or eight months, so by the time it installs the updates, it's already hit that threshold of you need to install these updates now.
Sorry you were at least half an hour late to your presentation.
IDK why anyone has automatic updates enabled, precisely because of this ocurring at frustrating times. Can this not be disabeled anymore or something?
The user-facing options only allow you to delay updates for up to a month. There is no way to permanently disable automatic updates from there. If you are a power user, there are ways that use things like group policy, registry keys, etc. But you may not have access to those if you are on a work or school computer, as that is managed by your IT team.
not in windows.
Yes, you can. I hate Windows and its eagerness to update whenever, but that behaviour is configurable.
In the Windows Update settings, under Advanced options, disable "⏩ Get me up to date" then set your "Active hours" to "Manually" then set an 18 hour block that doesn't conflict with your work day, like 6 am till midnight. At least in theory, you'll only get updates applied when you deliberately reboot or leave your machine on overnight.
Edit: if you're really keen, you can use a tool like O&O ShutUp10 (it works on 11, too), or edit the registry to completely disable auto updates.
no. you can't.
it's set in policy on enterprise installs and you have to reghack to get it to stop.
that's not it working, that's a hack.
What a strange response. You've said that deferring updates can't be done on Windows. It's plain factually incorrect. You're literally quoting that policy can control it but saying it can't be controlled, but you see no contradiction. Real enterprise uses WSUS, which absolutely can defer updates, it's one of the main selling points.
Not everyone uses that, and group policy is sufficient for plenty of orgs. The link in my earlier comment clearly explains how policy and registry settings can avoid OP's problem, so "no you can't" alone, is a ridiculous and incorrect response. That there exist cases where enterprise makes it more difficult does not mean that it is not possible. It's arguably easier with enterprise because IT can push those settings out to everyone and make sure no one has those interruptions.
Not a sure thing, though, and IT policy often disables those options.
Your IT dept. has to be pretty shit if they're controlling those policies but not setting basic work hours. Turning off that restart asap crap is the norm, because management/c-suite get pissed off by random restarts and immediately blame IT.
wow, spoken like someone who is clueless about how enterprise solutions work.
I thought you might just be inexperienced, but now I can see you're just an armchair idiot.
I have a laptop and a PC with the same settings. The laptop forces updates, the PC doesn't and I have no idea why.
Hence the qualifier:
Windows updates whether you want it to or not. whether you have auto-update on or not.
This isnt new with windows 11.
I almost got stuck in an airport because windows 10 decided to update, despite being in standby, in my laptop bag like 10 years ago.
I only have it in the VM but even there I tried all kinds of things like hacks in the registry and all kinds of services disabled only to discover sometime later that it tried to update.
I just set it read only so that it just can't do that now, anymore. It's such a virus...
So, how did it go?
Lol I just got home. The update (25h2) finished 55 minutes after I posted this. Which obviously coincided with the moment I finished my presentation. I used my boss's laptop to connect to the beamer & give the presentation.
Just show that in your presentation and make them all wait for however long it takes.
You clicked "shutdown and install updates" instead of "shutdown" didn't you?
sometimes you don't have an option. it forces you to install updates
shutdown -s -f -t 0
If it doesn’t give you the option then you’ve been ignoring the button for a while.
Years back when I used windows the 'shutdown' and 'shutdown and update' acted the fucking same most of the time. Shit was driving me up the fucking wall.
Sure you didn't wait too long before updating so they had to force those updates?
They force them because too many users skipped them and started to complain when things went wrong because of it.
That is some making excuses for your abuser shit, right there!
"He had to hit me, it was my fault for doing something wrong that made him mad!"
Don't leave security updates hanging for over a week then. That's when the system starts trying to actively fix your inability to utilize ANY of the update delay and scheduling options included in the OS.
Microsoft and many other companies release updates literally the second Tuesday of each month. The update cycle is so common and decades old that there is literally a name for it, Patch Tuesday.
Because windows ever informed me of anything like that instead of using dark patterns to force things on me without any elaboration. And windows is full of stuff like this whilist providing the users much much less control than linux. I've been conditioned to expect no settings for things I want on windows and the settings that are actually there to be overwriten by windows at any time without again, informing me in any way or caring about my consent. Not to mention that the settings UX is a big mess on windows and are a PITA to use.
It literally has a link in the notification box telling you it needs to restart, to help you schedule a time and adjust active hours, and explains what that means without having to go to an online help page.
Not sure what else you want.
What? That was the reason? I'm glad I'm off this shitOS. Bruh
When you alt+f4 then enter, that is the default option if update is available. Makes sense when OP accidentally pressing it, i know i did it a lot of time. Sometime update upon starting is fast, but i guess OP had one of those update.
ease yourself into linux with ubuntu which has an install for most of the same software as windows uses and when youre ready you can go full FOSS on a deeper linux os.
no need to suffer like this.
I recently got a job which required I use a work computer, which uses Windows and every ms service, some of us do have to suffer like this...
Luckily i work-around that handicap by installing virtualbox and working inside linux vms all day (my project's the only multi-os one). I still get forced host upgrades though.
Debian did this to me recently. I was very upset...
Well except it was for my fantasy draft so the stakes were obviously much higher. /s
Debian forces you to update? 🤔
the default for some distributions these days is to apply updates on restarts (which produce win-like update progress screens) instead of 'immediately' (and leaving a kernel update hanging and waiting for one). it is also often a user-configurable option for handling updates.
here's fedora, as an example:
and if you tell your linux to install updates 'automatically', they will come in.. ya know, automatically.. like windows. i've yet to see one 'force' a restart, though.. like windows likes to do.
The time it takes for these updates is also not nearly the same. You can easily be waiting 10-15 minutes for a large Windows update.
If been a few years since I've had more than a 5 minute update
Oh wow, I wouldn't want anything automatic to be happening to my installation, hell naw. 🚫🙅♂️
Correct. I have a dual boot with windows and when I rebooted to Linux I got stuck installing updates. I'm not particularly opposed to the idea of automatic updates, but I am vehemently against blocking entire computer use while it occurs w/o a way to cancel. I was also mad that to my knowledge this was the default and not an option in feature.
"YOUR COMPUTER FAILED TO START AFTER A RECENT UPDATE. WOULD YOU LIKE TO EXPLORE RECOVERY OPTIONS?"
Yes, I do want to explore Linux.
Windows Woes
Don't worry, your data is where you left it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDLvUqhwHZc
This sounds like bait on lemmy
Lemmy/Reddit, Linux/Windows... Many of us are forced to use Windows on corporate hardware.
Noice.
The amount of misinformation in a windows update thread on lemmy would be laughable if it wasn’t a weekly post.
Yup. Work to get it perfect the day before. Then you make it a point to get a good nights sleep and be really ready. I have been here.
Recent Windows update caused secure boot issues on my kid’s laptop, wouldt get past BIOS without some fiddling.
Why does Windows suck so badly?
Bold of you to think anyone will be listening after the first slide.
Time to give a speach about how Windows is not as reliable as it used to be SeemsGood
Why would you not defer updates if you need to use your pc?
Putting aside that windows will simply forget updates when it decides to, users should not have to beg their own pc to not do something they didn't choose to do.
You’re wrong twice in one sentence. Windows gives you lots of opportunities to deal with updating on your own schedule. Updates shouldn’t be optional, else we have huge botnets running around.
Windows takes ultimate authority on too many questions without asking or informing users about that. It is wrong by default and leads to a lot of predictable problems and UX drgradation. To the point Microsoft managed to make people be anxious about updates, wanting to stop them.
The amount of people complaining about update scheduling is statistically insignificant in the real world. Lemmy and other tech communities are an echo chamber.
It's because this thread is filled with Linux bros. Windows scheduling updates at night and gives you weeks to prepare. It's even funnier seeing people say osx doesn't do this...it absolutely does. It will run an update if you wait to long and it takes just as long usually. Linux sure won't do this, but the majority of people have no clue how to use Linux and it's unfortunately not part of the corporate world in mass, and probably never will for workstations because of it's steeper learning curve.
As a Windows bro who learned Linux exists and can be used by a jock like me just two years ago, I don't think you and me remember the time these mandatory updates arrived in the same way. I remember that as a young and stupid person a decade or more ago I did my worst to disable them initially, for they clogged the HDD drive I had at the time and made my machine unreliable whenever I wanted to game on it. That it didn't schedule update tasks all that well for they are shut down when they aren't in use.
As a more conscious individual, I apply all of them on initial install, but still keep myself cautious about them, for my growing fleet of machines has a couple of edge cases where it breaks core functionality unless prevented. One next security update on that exact version of Office we use disables autofill-on-drag in Excel - it's a bug that never got fixed and is unaffected by ticking corresponding menu items; systems with multiple vcards of different generations get corrupted for Windows loads drivers to the latest ones without a nickel of care if older ones support that; oh, and I didn't mention how Windows Update also loads unneded apps and straight up spyware while also randomly disabling apps that worked before update.
Linux sucks for major software vendors don't care about it, except select projects and companies. At the time of writing, I don't think there would be any problem in booting some Rocky Linux desktop and downloading programs for an industry professional. The lack of familiar software supporting Linux right now would hit them earlier than anything linux-related. I am an Adobe bitch, and acclimatization to new tools doesn't go without friction. But I adore one simple and little thing: that, just like my video hardware, once I plug in a Linux machine into my production pipeline, it behaves in a predictable fashion and doesn't do anything by itself.
For it not to feel like a thing of my spoiled imagination, a lot of providers of paid niche software got onto always-online licensing, and then started to sell usb keys for those who want their production machine to function as desired even offline. The need to have the same environment boot after boot is what can lead some teams to abandon Windows altogether. By I'm with you in thinking that it's a niche case.
I serve lotsa untechy people who are annoyed by these updates for reasons as practical as "this PC does not follow my command to wake up or shut down immediately". Sometimes they have older hardware that struggles with it (like if they have a HDD for a system drive as the worst case), sometimes they shut it down mid update being jn a hurry, they all do want their machine to function as a VHS player that is persistent between boots and just works. You are right that most people don't dance around our ideological campfires, that they don't understand the discourse around frequent updates at all, but as end users they get a frustrating expirience that often my clients shrug when I mention Windows Update for they already encountered at least one case of it randomly popping up when they were unprepared and didn't want it.
Yet, I agree that it is insignificant for Microsoft, as they kept it that way even for pro users for more than a decade.
It is a different topic than my initial argument but I don't mind to explore that branch.
I disagree. Updates SHOULD be optional, as long as you own your PC. Now, for a work PC, where your employer actually owns it, it's them who decide what's optional and what's not. In that context, I think it's every IT department's responsibility to ensure security updates are pushed out and applied.
Maybe you don’t recall how bad botnets were before updates become harder to avoid.
I’d support optional updates if network access is disabled, maybe by your ISP.
Why do you hate property rights?
then why did you start the upgrade proccess?
Windows often decides it wants to do it at boot; you have no choice. Of course Murphy's Law states this will happen at the worst time possible.
Last night I specifically hit the "shut down" WITHOUT installing updates, and it just did it anyways. It does what it wants. This was W10 btw .
Did you press update? I bet you pressed update.
it's the sneaky 'update and ...' options that get added to the poweroff submenu that often get in the way to produce unexpected 'updates' during a boot.
So they passed that, did they?
How shit is your computer if it won't be done in 5 minutes?
Did anyone comment that maybe this is the user error? Waiting until the last moment rarely work great.
If you have to carry such a mental load to manage a tool that should enable what you do, instead of blatantly getting in your way, then it's a bad and ineffective tool.
Why would you ... use windows?
Probably OP's work computer. Most people don't get to choose.
Part of the time for money exchange program is using the computer that they give you...