Spotify fans threaten to return to piracy as music streamer introduces new face-scanning age checks in the UK
https://www.techradar.com/audio/spotify/spotify-introduces-face-scanning-age-checks-for-uk-uses-as-some-furious-fans-threaten-to-return-to-piracyOpen linkView original on lemmy.world1632
Comments420
Age verification is a great success I see. I feel so much safer now with this shit in place so kids can't watch porn...
...on major/regulated sites only.
The worst was watching porn on spotify...
It has absolutely nothing to do with kids watching porn.
Of course.
*so that the government can say kids won't watch porn.
Rule 1 of computers that everyone who has taught an ICT class learns - if little Timmy wants titties, he finds a way.
God forbid people teach their kids sex/getting off is a drug and can be abused.
Who taught you sex is a drug? As long as words mean their definitions, it's categorically not. Plus it's probably kinda harmful to pile on the stigma already surrounding sex by conflating it with drugs and all the stigma that comes with that.
Hopefully I'm wrong, but it's kinda giving a nofap pseudoscience red flag to me.
Parents definitely should be teaching their kids about this stuff at the appropriate time, but they should stick to the facts.
First they came for the sex, then they came after the drugs. Now they’re trying to take my rock and roll
I've heard music is a drug, too. It was all drugs, all along. We probably should've known, honestly.
Life is a drug if you hit it right
I thought life was a highway?
Life is the highway you boof
Did you know that rock and roll is actually a plate of spaghetti?
Spaghetti = Carbs = Sugar = Addictive Drug
yeah but I lost my poor meatball.
A fellow Bread Harrity super fan I see? I'd like to get all up in that beautiful man's wet spaghetti 🍝
Lol I bet your comment confused them, that line is originally from that On Top of Spaghetti song and it was repurposed by Bread in his classic number The Meatballs the Meatballs the Meatballs the Meatballs the Meatballs the Meatballs of Liiiife. I love Bread. I'm a huge Breadhead and Bread can get all up in my guts any time.
Sex on drugs is awesome…
Is being high without the approval of your partner okay?
I guess that depends very much on your partner and the relationship you have together..
and if it's pretty much a stranger?
I would say, that that would be ok 🤔 at least in my personal opinion
I mean... it is a rush of dopamine and can become addictive. Same as a videogame or gambling though. Not a drug but can get unhealthy if it leads to maladaptive daily functioning.
In Sweden pretty much anybody has Bank Id, an app which is connected to a bank account and which can function as a valid identification.
App belongs a private company, but it's still trustworthy and everybody can sign government docs with that.
This is how you should do age verification, through a third party app, not like any site will get your id/picture to just end in their DBs ready to be stolen.
Every government should create an app for the online id, I don't get why this seems so hard to achieve.
It's super trustworthy bro I swear
Do you prefer to give your personal id to any site in the world instead of using the same app which you pay your taxes with?
The effect is still the same these companies are given access to my personal information because the government wants to monitor our activity online
Well, actually anybody is trying to monitor your activity online in this moment. But thinking to what Trumo is doing right now probably I wouldn't like to do it as well.
I'd prefer my internet free...
Like other medias before, internet probably has reached a need for some harder control. I'm not talking about porn, I'm talking about disinformation, bots and soon AI.
Not sure which is the best way but I'll not give any id or credit card to any randim site in order to see their content.
"Disinformation"
Ahhh ok I see now.
So who do you think should be in charge of that?
Who do we make "the good guys" that get to tell me the information I need to see. USA, CCP, Israel, Russia, EU?
Fuck that shit. I don't trust a god damn one of them and if you do then your opinions on regulating the internet don't mean shit to me.
I agree we need to get rid of all the bullshit you mentioned - but I don't think giving up our anonymity or more gated communities (like facebook, twitter, instgram and all those fucked up places) are the solution.
Credit cards should roughly do the same, but both of those aren't "great" for privacy and really exists to make profiles of adults while pretending to negate the need for parents to parent (the only real way to reduce/prevent harms of kids witnessing age inappropriate media). Your ability to do financial transactions shouldn't be tied to your speech or content you view.
The thing is, UK has had age restrictions for years on its mobile platforms. So if you want to look at porn on your phone, you have to unlock it on your subscription. And to do this, they use youre credit card. The thing that they already have. Its easy and swift. And more to the point, only one company has your data. As it stands now, you are supposed to give your personal details to every single company in the world.
Over the past 20 years, how many massive hacks have we seen that leak email addresses and passwords? Are how about all those woman that get their iclouds hacked and their nude photos uploaded? I can think of at least 10 instances in the past 10 years. And now its going to be all of our driving licences, passports, other photo IDs? And the law also requires that they scan ALL private messages. Thats end to end encryption fucked. And god forbid your girlfriend calls you "Daddy" in a sext, you get the cops knocking on your door treating you like Jimmy Saville.
The shit is insane, and people arent anywhere near outraged enough. Its coming to Europe next, if reports are to be believed. So you lot should ALL start kicking up fuck about it now.
My point is you shouldn't present any id to a random site, it should exists a government app that does it for you.
Same as the passport you show at the border and it should not even show name or picture, is should just say if you are over 18 or not.
People shouldn't be in the need to show a credit card to watch porn.
ah from shady porn sites, like spotify and wikipedia. definitely protect kids from porn there. /s
Is wikipedia on the list? I see reddit is, lol. We might see an influx soon.
not yet, but the wikimedia foundation has been fighting against it expecting that it would be a class 1 site and require it.
We have to protect wikipedia
Here's one way to help: https://kiwix.org/en/about-us/#our-story
Download Wikipedia to your own device. If it's ever blocked or taken down you still have access and can help share information with others.
You can download different versions (e.g. without images) and different languages based on your needs.
There's other resources available via kiwix as well but I've not really explored them to be honest
Does it run a local web server or is it all static files? Is it searchable?
https://flathub.org/apps/org.kiwix.desktop
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZIM_(file_format)
Edit:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiwix#Description
So I feel like I'm now hearing more successful pushes for censorship through this stuff.
Just last week I learned how Texas has a bill that makes it so if anyone ever invested in green technology that they wouldn't be allowed
https://www.texastribune.org/2022/08/24/texas-boycott-companies-fossil-fuels/
I saw a post saying /r/period required an age check.
They're gonna censor as much as they can with this.
Ah, yes. As we all know, periods start at 18, when you're a legal adult. It's illegal to have periods before then
That makes no sense, surely everyone has invested in green energy through workplace retirement plans, no?
Let this be a reminder to never turn away from piracy. It needs to constantly be in the background and if any company gets like they always do, then it comes back out. But if we let the knowledge fade away then it's impossible to rebuild it.
Piracy preserves media.
Piracy preserves art.
Piracy makes sure, that future generations still have access to the creations of humanity.
Data hoarding is a service to the public.
"Keep circulating the tapes!"
I initially perceived piracy similarly to how or perceive reading about archaeology and such, so the fact that someone is sincere in hating p2p copying and calling it immoral just felt preposterous.
Yet now it seems plenty of normies will agree. Then go listen to something they didn't pay for on YouTube or Facebook or whatever, because "everybody uses that". What "everybody uses" is fine, see. What they condemn me the pirate for is using ed2k, torrents and such other technologies. Even when I'm literally downloading public domain stuff or abandonware.
It doesn't take much for media though to parade out the "lil guy and change the opinion of people about how your basically attacking small indie creators"
Or you know you could punish parents for not parenting. Like if kids are watching porn and caught and if it's actually against some law then go after the parents.
It's not hard to teach parents how to implement a filtering DNS. But no, countries think they need to be the nanny.
"Protecting children" is just the pretext under which governments can sell increased surveillance. The fact that there are more effective ways they could act to protect children, yet governments everywhere continue to push for ID checks and monitoring online activity, shows that the aim isn't what they say it is.
Don't forget trying to kill e2e encryption like what the EU wants to do, both to "catch criminals" and "protect the children"
https://www.theparliamentmagazine.eu/news/article/the-end-of-encryption-as-we-know-it
Protect from what? I mean seriously. Most of us (guys at least) probably saw porn way before we were old enough and most of us probably didn't end up as rapists or pedophiles. It's not a good thing by any means, but it really feels like we're trying harder to keep sexual material from entering their brains than we are trying to keep them fed, clothed, educated, housed, healthy, loved, and physically safe. Of all the things I mentioned the last seven have a monumentally greater affect on their success and well-being as an adult.
I'm convinced sex is used as a leveraging tool to control society.
🌏👨🚀🔫👨🚀
That's just the pretext they give to justify it. The real reason is surveillance. Now they have a way to confidently tie your accounts to your individual identity. And most of these solutions use third parties which will then sell that data as well, so now anyone can tie your account to you without you ever knowing.
Even if the government is barred from surveilling citizens in these ways, third parties aren't, and the government can just buy that information, no warrant needed anymore.
And these laws never stop at porn, it's drugs, LGBTQ information, etc. and they can always easily add additional things later with little fanfare.
This is it. Theyve been going after encrypted messaging apps for a long time, ig they realized theyre not getting anywhere and figured to just hit it head on.
The internet has always circumvented this kind of shit, just look at TPB. The ones who are getting really beaten up by this is the older generations and the ones lacking technical know-how.
Yep. “The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it.”
LOL, wrong on that last point! Gen X and Millennials are generally hot shit on tech. It's the young folks who don't have a clue if something doesn't "just work". Present company excluded of course. :)
It’s not about kids and never has been, it’s about surveillance of the internet and the death of anonymity.
Going against the parents is impopular and would make the parents vote against you in the next elections.
As a parent, that's my take as well. If my kids break a law, I should be the one to fix it. Don't do my parenting for me...
I feel like I'm standing between two really stupid positions here.
On the one hand, just let parents teach their kids is basically a state's rights argument. A lot of parents won't teach their kids, so... do we care? Does this matter? We should probably mount a stronger effort then.
On the other hand, we don't need the government to get involved to stop 9 year olds from seeing titties—we just don't! Websites the world over have implemented 2-factor-authentication more or less by themselves (
and probably because they want to spy on you). And, no one says the word r----- anymore because if you ever do, a bunch of anti-bullying PSAs will be really annoying about it in your replies.Not every social problem needs to be solved by swinging around Thor's hammer. We do have other means.
No, it's a privacy and individual rights argument. I don't want local governments enforcing it any more than I want national arguments enforcing it.
Kids seeing stuff they shouldn't isn't itself a problem, but it can lead to problems. For example, kids learning to make bombs itself isn't an issue, kids making bombs to hurt others is the issue. Hold parents legally accountable for the latter, not the former.
The furthest I'd be willing to go on this is requiring a payment method (which itself requires sufficient age) to be entered before accessing anything "adult oriented," and even then I'm not completely sold. But this way the burden of verifying age is restricted to things consumers already need to trust, and parents would need to give or allow their kid access to a payment method.
I think you misunderstand. I'm not saying I'm in favor of this law.
By state's rights, I'm referring to the way republicans pretend they want the freedom of choice where they are actually just looking for excuses to keep doing what they're doing. In this way, letting parents choose is functionally identical: parents won't choose, so it is equivalent to doing nothing.
There has to be a cultural shift for anything to change.
If I'm being perfectly honest, I do not give a shit if 9-year-olds can see titties. Like, my other argument against this government overreach is that I don't know what problem it's supposedly solving that can't just be solved with better sex-ed.
They could just offer a child protection browser where parents could set to child mode and require adult material offering sites to check if user has something like “attention not 18 year old user” in the headers.
Would be way cheaper, I think.
Don't threaten, just do it. Enshittification must end.
The only reason we have mainstream paid video streaming now is because early Netflix was genuinely better than dodgy, pop-up riddled mirrors on movie4k.to. The convenience was well worth 8 bucks a month. Same for Spotify.
Fast forward 10 years and Spotify wants me to pay 15 €, scan my face and listen to forced podcast ads AND pay extra for paywalled audiobooks that used to be free? Meet my good old friend youtube-downloader, then.
I don't mind giving my date of birth to all the services I already pay for with credit card but face scanning? That's just creepy. Fuck off.
Date of birth (with some other details) is kind of a sensitive information in the right hands
given that governments are now starting to make certain protests illegal, definitely not as bad as having your face in a database and your behaviour being mapped for suspicious illegal activity like criticising genocide.
You're right and I'd go a bit further: It's none of their business what your age even is, they need to know only one bit for their legal duties, over or under age of majority.
Basically what is really needed is a certificate of majority digitally signed by the government bound to some identifier, email address or full name. All this uploading faces or ID card scans is ridiculous.
The invasiveness is the point. Age gating explicit content is just the excuse.
This
Even using a credit card for something like Spotify is already giving out more information than is needed.
How do you suggest people pay for Spotify?
A normal modern bank card (with 2FA) through a payment provider which obfuscates everything besides the name on your bank account and your bank account number (this will also share the country of your bank if you are in a SEPA region). And since people younger than 18 can use that system, they cannot use that for verification.
Plus, you won't be at risk of spending money you don't have, and it doesn't negatively impact your credit score like even having a credit card does in some countries.
He's saying if you have a credit card to pay there's no need to verify (I think)
Edit: nah I'm wrong, cheers
I just hate credit cards since they are like the worst payment method unless you want to dig a financial hole for yourself
Only if you’re bad with money. Nothing wrong with credit cards themselves, and most of them these days are credit/debit cards.
Besides that, credit cards (and chipless debit cards) are unsecure? That receiving credit cards payments costs more in terms of administration costs?
That credit cards are a system designed for consumerism (you see this especially in the US) and that people who grew up with credit cards being the default/more common payment method are often worse with money?
There is a reason why you can only own credit cards if you are an adult, but you can own chipped debit cards earlier.
It is 1970-01-01 like me, no?
April 20th, 1969? Anyone?
You've got to be 18 to be able to have a credit card.
At that point someone else has verified your details for them, a bank (who are generally considered to be accurate about most things)
deleted by creator
There's a wide gap between "travelling to another country" and "listening to music."
I'm not trying to go on holiday to Spotify
fair point but given the direction US and UK are headed, something legal you do online can be illegal in a couple years with a face attached to that activity. What you mention is also bad (your face being in a face recognition database) but not as bad as that being attached to tons of behavioural data collected about you.
“Fans”?
that's like saying Amazon fans really lol
Well.... ...gestures to apple fans...
Apple fans. Spotify fans. Same shit.
Back to Piracy! ✊🏴☠️
Really though? It isn't necessary. Use Bandcamp, you probably have half your artists covered. The rest - one of those Spotify alternatives: Tidal? Qobuz?
Personally I do selfhost btw. Jellyfin, though I heard of a better alternative specifically for music recently - and forgot the name again 😥 Something lowercase,
like a verb... "normalize" or some such.Navidrome! Thanks @[email protected]Navidrome maybe? But I use jellyfin + symfonium myself. All my music is either bandcamp or used CDs. Started collecting music late last year and my entire collection is legally sourced now. No piracy required. Hardest part was starting very small and building the collection over time.
Yes! Navidrome!
I get them dirt cheap or completely for free. It's actually reverse piracy (no I'm not serious) since no doubt the previous owners ripped everything.
Yea, it literally makes no difference for the artist, if you pirate or if you buy a used CD.
Pirate it is just way more convenient.
Go to shows, buy the albums from the merch tables and use the events (to the best of your individual ability) as a means to connect with like minded anti-fascists.
That is of course even better. Just wish any band I'm interested in would ever come to play this quiet corner *sigh*
Thanks for recommending Navidrome. It looks really interesting.
I was using Spotify, but switched to Spotube. After Spotube was crippled, I was kind of aimless. I really liked having my music available on my cellphone and desktop. It looks like Navidrome will fill the gap perfectly.
You'd mentioned ripping CDs. Would you have some software, you'd recommend (Windows or Linux)? Preferably in FLAC.
I haven't looked at ripping software in a few years, but it was kind of tedious to set up and very manual to get the proper metadata, genres, and cover art. I've got a hundred CDs and that'll take awhile....
abcdefor Linux. It's in your repositories. Set it up once the way you want, then it's just: insert CD, enterabcde, repeat ad nauseam. You could even tell your system to auto-trigger it on every CD insert.I want to leave Windows behind... abcde seems the way to go for Linux.
On Windows I use EAC, it's great but requires a little work to set up. There are a lot of tutorials for it if course.
Don't know if it's still what's recommended, but I use foobar2000 for ripping CDs to FLAC.
I have Jellyfin for movies/tv, and gonic for music!
Harmonize?
more like 3% bandcamp availability. i know this is a linux/trans/selfhost/overpayeddev/westeu/foss echochamber, but im not wasting electricity and money on selfhost if a 1tb sd card in my phone can do the same thing offline.
I switched to Deezer!
I would suggest Qobuz (if available) or Tidal. Deezer's CEO is a hard-core religious nutjob who finances anti-trans orgs and sexual conversion "therapies".
Ah dang. :( Thanks for the heads up, I thought I found something nice...
Sorry for replying to an old comment, but do you have some source to support this? I am searching online but finding nothing :(
I'll be honest with you - I read that from someone else either here or on Reddit (and they provided some links that looked legit), but I also can't find it anymore. Maybe it was about the previous CEO, the original founder? Not sure, so you can ignore that whole part when choosing a streaming service.
I'd still pick Qobuz because of how much more they pay artists, though.
Don't threaten, just do it!
I don't get why people are so stubborn to move away from corporate products.
what are "spotify fans"? Spotify paid 150k $ for Trump's inauguration party, f them. They do not deserve my money
what's even the point of age gating "explicit" music?
"oh no! "Speak To Me" by Pink Floyd has the fuck word in it! can't let my kids hear it!"
If I am paying for my account personally, with a card in my name, what more do they need?
A VPN is a must if you wanna go down this route
Soulseek (and I recommend the Nicotine+ client over the official one) is a fantastic source for all music in all formats, and particularly obscure off-label shit you won't get anywhere else. You'll even have some success finding audiobooks there, although this is very hit-and-miss. I wish audiobook pirates would use it more heavily. It's P2P, like Napster used to be. You'll have to share something or you'll get auto-ignored by most users.
RuTracker is a great non-private/non-ratio-monitoring torrent site for music (does require a free account though). I've never had a single torrent from there that wasn't seemingly seeded by a Godzilla's dick. Obviously it's in Russian, but there's really no difficulty navigating around. The only thing you might struggle with is signing up for an account, but just have your favourite translation tool open in another tab 👍
If you don't mind slow download speeds (from the likes of RapidGator), I enjoy Exystence. It's a blog that shares link to the latest albums and offers both lossy and lossless versions. Nice RSS subscription to have.
If you do find yourself using RapidGator a lot, don't waste money buying a sub directly from them, it's insanely pricey. Instead, get a reseller like Real Debrid, which costs like 10% as much and also covers you for about two-dozen other file hosters. I highly recommend putting as much distance between your credit card and the company as possible, just for safety reasons. Using PaySafeCard is fine, as Real Debrid will never see your details in that case. I don't have any specific reason to be weary of them, I just don't trust random/small/hitherto unheard of companies as a rule.
Oh, reminds me, you should also sort your share. I once got march-horny, added some German marches to my download queue (no judging pls), and then got a PM from the guy sharing them that I should keep my collection in order. And yes, the jerk ignored me.
Also not really p2p, there is a central server. The downloads are p2p.
It was ratio-monitoring, that's how it became great. Just after being banned in Russia they decided that those who try hard enough to even reach there can be trusted to behave.
It's not only for music, it's for everything.
I've been using RuTracker for years and it usually has all the music I need. And it has more than music, great site.
Here's a reliable, free VPN: https://riseup.net/en/vpn
Remember to donate to them tough - and btw. they are actually running their services for radical left activists, not filesharing... so I guess it would be cool to please not strain their servers too much.
All good advice. I used to find a lot of stuff by entering "site:rutracker.org" behind my query in my favorite search engine - don't know if that still works but I never needed an account there...
tf is spotify "fans"? more like spotify "users"
I mean, fuck Spotify and all that, but this one is really the UK government's doing.
And soon, this shit will come to every country. They're all drafting laws to mandate real age verification for adult content. The UK is just the first to implement it.
Never stopped. Get your own mp3s kids.
I know so many people who are so ride-or-die for never having to manage the file space for their own music library and they don't seem particularly less stressed.
I think they just cannot live without an algorithm to recommend new music to them
They might want to try LMS and its https://github.com/epoupon/lms?tab=readme-ov-file#music-discovery
Oh, piss off. I just want to financially support artists for making something beautiful I enjoy. Streaming is the easiest because of space constraints. I still buy the CDs of my most favourite albums, but I cannot stress enough how great it is to NOT have to rip the MP3s every time, make sure the tags are good, etc.
It's convenient.
If you don't like Spotify's new ID check, kill your Spotify account and use an alternative - Tidal and Qobuz are both excellent.
woah woah woah, chill bro goddamn. let's sit and think about this. Record labels take pretty much all of the cut for streaming. Here is the chart showing what each service pays artists per song played. I used to think Napster was the best and subscribed to them for years, which is ironic considering their history
obviously the payout is going to vary widely but it's common knowledge that for even the most played artists, the pay from this avenue sucks. they simply use these services to get their music to potential concert goers since that's the income that record labels actually let artists keep. vinyls, merch, and usually tickets unless they REALLY get fucked over like child musician groups tend to.
If You have an interest in discovering just how shady that industry is, you should watch this essay about payola and how it's literally more profitable for a musician to die than it is to release a certain number of future albums. I'm going to stick to pirating albums and using my cash to actually see the artists I love
It's still giving them SOMETHING, isn't it?
Of course I'd prefer to buy directly from the artist (hence: Bandcamp), but that's not the world we live in. Flat out piracy is just the worst of all the available options.
Then stop saying stupid shit like "they just cannot live without an algorithm" when talking about people who use streaming services.
it really isn't though. I don't really know where you live or how your local economy is organized but where I'm at people in my tax bracket are extracted for every ounce of raw money we can generate, both now but even speculatively in the future. it really doesn't make sense to consider theft as a taboo against corporations since we are literally a resource that's being exploited in real time for far much more than whatever artists would lose if we all stole.
.sopuli is a Finnish board right? my understanding is that you guys have way stronger social ethics and consumer protection, so yeah. in your world I probably would sign up for that Napster subscription again. or even better, a service actually from Finland. Bandcamp is good too.
here, though in the present we have far worse things to worry about than theft. being tricked into defending the feelings of billionaires is a big one. letting corporations curate our education and media is another. but I hope you continue to have the life where you can engage with your economy in such a good intentioned way. I miss back when I felt I could do that too.
This is such an "I'm 12 and a rebel" position to take...
Sure, corporate greed is a cancer, there's zero doubt about that.
But these corporation also create jobs, make it possible for many people to survive. In terms of media streaming corpos SO MANY people/bands were allowed to have a career thanks to people just stumbling upon them.
Should they be getting paid more? Absolutely. Should the corpos handling the hardware, infrastructure, AND software be also paid? If you don't believe that, you're just naive or ignorant. Or both.
Or the French Qobuz.
Be the change you want to see. Instead of going stomping feet and stealing candy, go to the store that you feel you can morally support. Hard to do IRL, but online - sky is the limit. Use European services, those that pay artists (Qobuz pays around 5 times more than Spotify to rights holders), buy directly from artists on Bandcamp, etc., etc.
Piracy is literally the worst solution here because you're taking without giving. Any "fight the corpo!" banner here is just extreme naivete because the artist will starve MUCH quicker than the corp.
yeeesh. I realize now that getting artists paid is obviously way less important to you than having somebody to verbally spar with. this is reductive and overall pretty naive to the actual experience of being in the workforce or trying to consume ethically.
instead of shouldering the responsibility of being your debate partner, I'm going to bow out and bid you a good life 👍 perhaps somebody else here would like to take turns quote tweeting and making character assessments with you.
Why would I support local artists if an artist from abroad makes the music I love?
And, if their music is not available locally, nor they have a Bandcamp/similar account, how do I support them if not through streaming services?
I think if you send like a dollar to everyone on your playlist, it would end up being like 100 times more than they get from the system.
I have honestly no clue what you mean. Could you explain?
Which is why I'm actively searching for the best possible options.
When I learned that Spotify is fleecing artists, I moved to Tidal.
Then I learned about the French Qobuz, which pays artists even more, and I switched.
I support artists on Bandcamp. I buy physical CDs and will soon fire up a vinyl collection.
I'm aware that 100% of the money I spent on art doesn't go to the artist, but even if it's 10%, it's going to be 100% more than if I resorted to piracy.
Supporting piracy to show corpos the finger is the equivalent of stealing CDs from a music store, because the store price includes the store's margin, transport costs, manufacturing costs, and only a (relatively) small percentage goes to the artists.
me basically
An algorithm for them:
mpc, is that shuffling media player cassic with the system clock? isn't that what shuffle already does ?
mpcas inmpdCLI client, wherempc_pl_lenandmpc_pl_jmpprocedures are not listed, but just call it with some other Unix commands to get playlist length and jump to a playlist position.Why mp3?
Usually when someone still use mp3s it's for the ubiquity of the format. Every device that has a USB port handle mp3s. I personally use opus and it's not common at all.
It's really interesting when you think about that.
In the video world, we've had an arms race all throughout the last 25 years for the lowest possible file size at the best possible quality, with new codecs and containers constantly coming in and out of favour. Hardware playback has always been spotty at best, with little guarantee you'll get a file to play on any device in particular.
Meanwhile I could rip a CD and put it on even my first-generation MP3 player from the year 1999, and it would work. A blessing we rather take for granted.
I guess there just hasn't been sufficient pressure to toss MP3 out completely. From an evolutionary perspective, just like the horseshoe crab, it is "good enough" and so it endures.
You just reminded me: A while back there was this slew of articles coming out of the tech press saying MP3 was now dead.
And why did they say that? Because the last Fraunhofer Patent on an MP3 related invention ran out.
Instead of reporting the format was now fully free, those idiots thought that meant it was now dead 😂
Opus is far better, but with MP3's there's been plenty of hardware players only working with that format. Also Opus is new, before it was Vorbis which was kinda as good as MP3 but far less popular.
And yes, MP3 is very "good enough", like JPEG.
Considering how much Spotify pays artists per listens, piracy is barely any different in that regard.
I mean, the Spotify CEO invests in AI weaponry being used to murder kids in Gaza so the morally correct thing to do would be to leave Spotify over that.
Even if your not in the UK you should go back to piracy. Steal from corporations as frequently as possible
I jerked it to the Hanson mmbop video back in the nineties.
Found out later the girl was a boy.
You can judge all you want, but the general thing is that horny teenagers will jerk it to almost anything.
..........genuinely trying to figure out how this relates to the topic at hand.
That a porn ban does not work and people will find a way around it.
When I was a kid there weren't all this free porn sites and most of them were paid.
So you would go to some shady site where people shared passwords. This might make a comeback
This.
But also this
Shit, those sites are a core memory for me. sexypasswords was my goto and the thrill of finding a working one. Ah good times.
Yeah I used iseekpasswords my older cousin told me about it
It moreso relates to what's in hand
The age control of pointless when it comes to protecting the children.
But also this
Thank you for letting us know. I'll be sure to use this information to my best.
The internet is based on this underlying trust. You are a true custodian!
Kids these days will let you be attracted to whoever you want.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6OamjBYCAz4
There's more out there that would never admit it because of that. Which is silly when you think about it.
The streaming services are run by shithead C-suites who think last quarter is the way it's always been. They forget the only reason most of us use their services is someone more visionary than them made it more convenient than piracy half a generation ago. Let's remind them there's an alternative.
DO WHAT YOU WANT CAUSE A PIRATE IS FREE! YOU ARE A PIRATE!
Its as if law makers don't learn from history. Do they not know what happened in the 90s and early 2000s when stores wouldn't sell M rated video games or CDs with mature content labels? We found ways to get around that. We would go to stores that didn't check or care, got our older sibling or friend to buy it for us. We burned copies of our friends CDs, or downloaded stuff off line with Limewire and Napster.
Same shit when there was prohibition in the US. People drove cars across the great lakes to bring alcohol into the US. People brewed there own spirits in bathtubs with radiator coils.
If people want to anomalously watch their favorite weird kinky shit or listing to music they like, they're going to find a way. And, if the easiest way to do that is through piracy, that is what they are going to do.
This age-verification bullshit is a fine example of how governments represent their rulers, not their citizens.
You're way better off with your own music collection. That is what I have. I use Tauon music box it handles large playlists well.
It's a load of bullshit, for a start the ISP has my details and should be able to attest my connection is rented by someone of legal age and it should be up to me what I let my children (assuming I have any) see and not see on that connection. I already had to click the "yes just give me the porn damn it" agreement on my mobile phone which was less likely to be randomly shared unmonitored and now this overbearing crap. I'll just avoid sites and services that require this.
as an independent artist I just wanna add: the best thing you can do to support artists and bands is to buy directly / on bandcamp. spotify pays shit to artists, you need millions of listeners to get any meaningful amount of cash
of course that isn’t a sustainable option if you listen to a lot of different music. so piracy is an option that I wouldn’t mind. hell, if you like my stuff and just write to me I’ll send you mp3s for free
ngl, Spotify has become hot ass these days
My favorite part is when the AI DJ plays some dumb song it's previously served up repeatedly, and then tells me how much I like it because I listen to it so often. I'd never choose to listen to it on my own, and the only reason I hear it is because Spotify keeps cramming it down my throat.
Spotify recommends based on your listening habits. You base your listening habits on Spotify recommendations. Ergo, Spotify recommends based on its own recommendation. Ourobouros achieved.
I used Spotify like 5 years ago and it was good. Tried to use it again this year and it's recommendations and service were complete garbage.
Yeah, that was what finally pished me over the edge a few years back. Switched to Tidal and have been very content with with it. They pay artists better, the sound quality is better, and the dily discovery playlist throws some serious curve balls. I have wide ranging tastes so it blends a few genres for a few weeks before moving onto something else, and it has introduced me to some AWESOME music that i would have never encountered otherwise.
Why would you use the Ai dj to feed you songs, when the normal daily mixes, daylist, etc are giving you the same songs without the fake personality injected between them? I literally do not understand. I'm open to your thoughts - it's just that it seems like an alien perspective.
It gives you a general mix and exposes you to new things that are unrelated to things you've listened to in the past. I listen to a lot of punk and ska, and the AI DJ serves up random pop and things I otherwise would never hear.
Not Spotify’s fault here, though. Shit legislation.
Just do it.
Flac > Spotify.
I keep getting advice of Flac > MP3 320 kbs.
I can't tell the difference to tell you the truth. Is it really worth it for audiophiles considering how much more space Flac files takes up?
There are online test you can do to see if you can successfully identify the FLAC from the MP3. I did one and failed miserably.
They say that if you have a very good DAC, amplifier and speaker / headphone system (as well as a good ear for audio), that you can hear it. But I would do the test first to see if it applies to your situation.
I have Sennheiser HD 25 I bought 15 years ago. I play music through my Pixel 5a with a headphone jack and my iMac. I have no idea if this is good enough for the test but I will try it anyway.
I did the NPR test.
I'm on my iMac and I chose 128 kbps four times... I chose 320 kbps once and Uncompressed WAV once.
I did so horribly. Lol.
This puts either my hearing limits or the limit of my tech. If I don't get better equipment, I have my answer forever.
This is truly great. Thank you for this suggestion.
I’m happy it helped. I was a musician and audiophile for most of my life so I was equally shocked to fail 😄 I also tested on my iMac too. I’m tempted sometimes to get an external DAC and maybe a nice amp, but I’m not sure I want the clutter.
It could be the quality of your headphones.
I'm not an audiophile, but back-in-the-day I bought some analog "sennheiser studio monitors" as opposed to "just headphones".
I actually returned the first one and exchanged them, because when I listened to a live recorded CD, I kept hearing loud "pops" that I didn't hear with my "regular headphones". I assumed they were defective.
The exchanged sennheiser had the same "pop" in this CD. It turns out, most "regular headphones" didn't have the same depth in sound frequency as studio monitors and the "pops" were accidental artifacts that were mixed into the CD.
For other CD's, I'd hear telephones ringing and sirens in the background.
Eventually, I got use to it. Then after a few years, I replaced my CD collection with mp3's... and I could tell a different in songs/albums I was really familiar with. The base wasn't as deep, the high sounds weren't as high, I didn't hear telephones ringing in the background.
I had the same sennheiser, it was just that the nature of mp3's "flattened" the music.
Now, with Bluetooth and the disappearance of 3.5 mm jacks, there are too many layers of digital conversion happening. I've given up... and now just have some cheap ear buds I listen to.
I have a pair Sennheiser HD 25.
I just took the NPR test suggested by another poster. I did horribly.
Thank you for your input. I will not be updating to Flac.
It is better, but it depends on the audio for the difference. Also, it would probably be hard to hear the difference playing over a phones speakers. The weakest link in the chain is always the problem you notice the most. Having a good setup for amp/speakers and you can hear the difference. Using Bluetooth earbuds to mow the lawn, it doesn’t matter. Sitting in my living room on my nice stereo, I notice.
I have Sennheiser HD 25 I bought 15 years ago. I play music through my Pixel 5a with a headphone jack and my iMac.
Is this good enough to be able to tell? I have no idea what devices have a good DAC or not.
Thank you for your input.
The space it takes up is negligible in the modern era of cheap SSDs (and even cheaper hard drives).
The main benefit is not in being able to hear a difference from 320Kbps mp3 (I know I sure can't), but knowing that you can re-encode the file as many times as you want, without any quality loss (assuming you're going from lossless to lossless, of course). Or create an mp3 from the flac file at any time, with the same quality as a ripped CD.
So basically FLAC is great if you produce/edit/re-encode your music files often. If you don't do any of that (and have no plans to future-proof your music collection), then 320Kbps MP3 is more than adequate for your needs.
My concerns with space mostly deals with my cell phone but you make a lot of great point of being able to convert Flac for any use case. Thank you for your input.
TBF, I was answering your question in its original context (is it worth it for audiophiles). Maybe it's just my age, but I was assuming that the majority of audiophiles still keep the bulk of their music collection stored on a desktop PC. But IDK, I'm in my late 30s and out of touch.
Anyway I'm happy to help.
Flac files contain orders of magnitude more data. As for the listening experience it's only ever going to be as good as the speakers at the other end. You'll also need a wired connection to said speakers in order to avoid some compression over Bluetooth. (Unless there's some newfangled lossless BT protocol that I'm unaware of.)
That makes sense. Thanks.
I'd say it's definitely worth it.
Our brains shouldn't have to work harder to listen to lossy music, which is what happens even if you can't reliably perceive it.
Listening to music on acid (a lot) has really shaped my views of it and how even the most minor things can have a major impact on the final experience.
I'm not an audiophile though and can enjoy music in a wide range of formats and quality; I just prefer FLAC almost anywhere.*
*some songs sound 'better,' or at least more iconic in a lower quality
I'm curious. How does acid change listening to music?
You get to notice things you didn't notice before. It's a lot easier for our brains to 'zoom in' and process minute details that we don't perceive normally. Since lossless and lossy music is not the exact same audio vibrating the air, our brains are not going to interpret them exactly the same. This difference doesn't matter to most and isn't always perceivable, but it's there.
One thing that stood out to me during an acid trip was how moving my phone affected the playback speed of my bluetooth speakers. Moving it farther away caused the song to slow down slightly for a moment, moving it closer caused the song to speed up slightly. You can imagine that this is because of some kind of 'space invaders' effect, where my phone is sending out signals at a constant rate and adjusting the distance to the receiver causes those signals to be received faster or slower, temporarily.
That's amazing!
Go to Opus 128 kbps. About the same as MP3 320 or better.
Thanks for the suggestion but it would drive me nuts either to convert all my music or to have several different files. Getting MP3s is easier.
Yes, I meant in case you have a library of FLACs. In that case it wouldn't be too problematic cause, well, it's just a script recursing your library, encoding from FLAC to Opus and if succeeded, removing FLAC files.
Okay. That makes sense.
yeh
Seriously, fuck Spotify and anyone else using that error-prone, intrusive, insecure bullshit.
Buy and store your own music. HDTracks and 7Digital both sell high quality DRM free downloads, or you can just swing by your local Walmart or Dollar Store and grab some CDs to rip.
Or you could go sailing, that's always an option...
They will be blown away by the quality increase they get🤭
(Pirate tend to share/prefere best quality content, while Spotify offers only 256kbit mp3 as far as I remember (or is it 320kbi now?))
Most people can't tell the difference between 128 kbit MP3 and high quality recordings.
Many people are ok with hearing music out of a phone speaker. Audiophiles don't necessarily care about how "most people" perceive sound quality.
Why is it the people that are ok listening to music out of a phone speaker are also the people ok polluting public spaces with music from phone speakers?
Because they are dumb assholes? I grew up around folks who jury rigged speakers into the back of their trucks for camping and the worst they got was blaring freebird on the highway, it used to take work to be that guy now someone can just play some obnoxious trash in the restaurant with no work whatsoever.
That was my point. The comment I was replying to was suggesting that people switching from Spotify will be blown away by better quality audio. Most wouldn't notice a difference.
Idk man. Show someone some cymbals on a 128kbps track and it sounds like someone crumpling a plastic bag via a tin can connected to a string. In contrast flac is going to sound much more natural.
I'd agree with you regarding 320 and flac - most people are gonna have a hard time differentiating.
With the usual psychoacoustic model of MP3 if you can hear the difference between 320 MP3 and FLAC you are either lying or there's something wrong with your speakers. It's certain with long odds.
i didn't care about just grabbing the 720p 600mb video file back when i was watching on a little laptop screen.
it does not hold up on the big stuff.
kinda same applies to audio?
crap sounds like crap on a phone speaker, but so does hi quality stuff.
noise and low dynamics are more noticeable on more powerful, louder gear.
just spitballing here, not an expert!
Can't confirm, I can't tell.
How about 48 kbit MP3? And more than that, for plenty of recordings that's sufficient.
Spotify uses vorbis if I'm not mistaken, not mp3. Mp3 sounds like absolute ass, even at 320.
Edit: why the downvotes? Spotify does use vorbis. Mp3 has weird artefacts, even at 320.
Already using Spotify to pirate music.
ReVanced? Or a Spotify downloader?
Just a web-based downloader, I’m patient and simple:p
Zotify
There are fans of Spotify?
Bandcamp, Soulseek, Navidrome, ListenBrainz.
Has been a pretty solid Spotify-replacement stack.
While I want to agree. I feel like normal people are still not gonna give a shit.
They won't give a shit, but they're also lazy and won't bother setting up an account that requires ID and photo verification. Too much work. Maybe we'll even see somewhat of a recurrence of brick and mortar stores that sells music, movies, porn, etc.
Ah the laziness to not even set up an account that needs it. I didn't consider that. Was more thinking of current users meeting the resistance.
I tend to agree with you in that most people are too addicted to the convenience. But yeah, Balaquina does make a good point. After all, a commonly cited reason as for why the Fediverse won't rival mainstream sites is that making an account is more complex. Even then, it's just choosing an instance, which isn't that hard, it's just more complicated in comparison to, say, Reddit or Twitter. So following the same logic, it very well could backfire if Spotify raises the barrier of entry (or barrier of continuous entry, for those who already have accounts that they will have to verify).
Every company has learned that any friction to using your site is a bleed of customers. There are a lot of people who will just not use your site if it requires a lengthy validation process. If there was some kind of identity system that sites would integrate with like login.gov, then people would ignore this, but I don't think the UK has such a thing that every site can use, so a lot of people will not use the site and over time fall to piracy or illegitimate sites.
Imagine if Spotify just opened the camera on your phone once a month when you first open the app that day. Just for like a split second. Theoretically it would be legal, for age verification. 🤮
People underestimate that most "regular" people are a product and exist for something other than humanity.
It would have to get pretty bad before people would be willing to forgo convenience.
That stuff is a nasty drug, very addictive and people will sell everything they got to keep it. They'd rather pay and arm and a leg instead of learning a little technology so they could help themselves.
People will slave themselves to the company that lets them be the most ignorant person possible but still enjoy the fun of technology.
Could you imagine if all mobile devices stopped using face recognition to unlock phones? I'd be willing to bet that a big chunk of people wouldn't be able to use them at all. I'm surprised that google and apple haven't started charging extra for that.
“Normal” people would put in their child’s social security number if it meant $2.99 off their subscription.
I'm not convinced. Look at how Netflix made bank on killing off "sharing is caring."
People are lazy, and if they want their easy Spotify fix, I fear they'll hand over their information and move on with their day.
One more reason if you're still buying music, to start buying physical albums again while you still can.
CDs aren't age-gated and you can rip them to FLAC yourself. Vinyl also isn't age-gated because it's analog, and although it's a longer and more drawn-out process than just ripping a CD which will only take a few minutes as because vinyl is an analog format, you gotta record it in real-time, and then manually split the raw waveform up into separate tracks, manually input metadata, and manually generate a cuesheet from the split-up tracks before finally exporting*, you can still needle-drop LPs to FLAC as well.
*This isn't as big an issue with 78s, 45s, and EPs (which are 33-1/3rpm singles last time I thought) as it is with LPs as there isn't as much playback time on them, and at least 45s and EPs are singles rather than a full album like with LPs so you only have one song per side, and I assume 78s are singles as well, as 78s max out at 5min per side.
+1 for vinyl. The album art, inserts, etc. really adds something to the experience that I had long forgotten over the years of downloading and streaming music.
CDs still do that to some extent, especially with indie releases, and also higher-end physical formats like SACD and DVD-Audio tend to have a lot of extras packed in with them as they're typically considered to be special editions of a given album, but both SACD and DVD-Audio are DRM-encumbered unlike normal CDs and of course analog formats where DRM doesn't apply, so trying to get them on a PC will be harder if not impossible especially as the DSD codec that SACD uses has particularly nasty DRM shipped with it IIRC.
There's also true novelty formats like MD, DCC, or even in the case of Jeremy Heiden's Blue Wicked, Elcaset of all things, and Blue Wicked was legit the first album to ever be released on that format, 40+ years after it faded from public consciousness.
Just a friendly reminder that the OSA was never about safeguarding kids from seeing porn.
Are the government seriously worried about a child being exposed to Break Stuff or So What on Spotify?
This is another step closer to requiring an ID to use the internet at all, which is exactly what the ruling class wants.
Fight back wherever you can.
Personally I could never get into the whole Spotify and Pandora thing. I want to listen to what I want to listen to and when I want to listen to it, without ridiculous restrictions and rules. YouTube has honestly been the far better choice for music for me.
Spotify fans?
I know bandcamp has its issues but I check there first for good flacs, I'll even settle for mp3s. I look REALLY hard. Not there? Ahoy.
Edit: Other places I try to buy first to support artists:
Should never have left it behind to be honest.
I showed it something else with cheeks and now I'm on 15 watchlists.
You should already be doing that anyways with the phantom artists scandal, thousands of fake artists made with AI so Spotify doesn't have to pay real people.
Tidal is pretty good these days. Qobuz too
And Bandcamp
I'm returning to car boot sales to buy cubic meters of CDs.
That, and BandCamp.
I have a non-uk account but at the first sight of age verification I will delete my account.
Welcome back 🏴☠️🦜
I’m confused. Is every app in the UK requiring face scanning? I thought it was just adult content.
According to the article :
Bluesky app also seems to require this for some features.
Bring it on! Sail the high seas. Yargh!
Already did this ages ago. Been building a collection for decades now. I'm pushing about 10k albums on the NAS. Haven't had spotify since like 2018
...return? LOL
just buy releases from bands on Bandcamp
Do it.
It's easy. Just use a Youtube-to-MP3 converter.
Never understood Spotifys appeal. Youtube has always been better imo.
I already moved to piracy for music because these days Spotify isn't even giving the normal shuffle option for free users
Yeah I know it's cheap but I'm a student so..
I just use spot-dl to download my music.
Latest Spotify crackdowns on revanced apps and a very recent GrayJay plugin issues made me look into Spotify cracking scene. I found an app that works. But for how long?
Does anyone have a good podcast app to replace Spotify that will keep track of progress across multiple devices? Bonus points if I can self host.
Antennapod with gPodderersync & Nextcloud? There are podcast apps for Nextcloud to play in the browser.
Thanks, this did it. Opodsync (since I don't have nextcloud) and antennapod.
I use audiobookshelf. Obviously for audiobooks mainly, but it does podcasts and it works well.
I always used podcast player. Never had any issues before.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.podcast.podcasts
Ha! Fuck. That.
I switched to Qobuz about two weeks ago. I've been really impressed.
Im not even in the UK and im still going to cancel due to this. Thanks spotify, fuck you :)
Well I don't think Spotify wants to do it, but it's probably a better option than abandoning their UK users.
I assume the other streaming options will do the same in the UK market, so probably better to look at self-hosted alternatives, if you're into that
What are they supposed to do? Pull away from the UK?
LOL 'Spotify fans' buch of losers
Jokes on them. My m4a library reaches 1000's easily
Thousands of bytes!
...funnily enough, it may actually be better for musicians if people left spotify, considering the absolute pennies they pay per stream.
Never had a Spotify account, and I never will. I have apple one, but Im kinda forced into that because of the other half. But if Apple pulls this shit, Im not paying for it. I VPN everything, but I still wont support any company that complies with this bullshit with my money.
You aren't wrong, it is the government's ham fisted and poorly thought out legislation... I fact the last government's that this one inexplicably pushed on with despite it not being anything like a priority for the electorate. I'm frankly shocked at how many unforced errors this government is making given how "not being as rubbish as the last lot" was not a high bar to clear.
Way easier to arrr!
What do you think of Qobuz? From what I've seen, it's got more stuff than bandcamp (at least from my library). It seems to pay the artists well too.
Ngl, right now I'm endevouring to acquire more music in digital file format rather than streaming right now. Spotify is great, especially when your looking for individual songs that you'll only listen to a handful of times, and for discovering music, but once you lose access to it you're pretty fucked.
Who could have guessed this very obvious a most expected outcome?! Not Spotify, I guess.
Back in the day, Grooveshark was the king before all these subscription guys showed up.
I mean... I'm already using Nicotine+ (Soulseek).
Is this just a thing for free users? I've not seen anything on there.
I need a cheap mp3 player
Not sure about all those political experiments in the internet. Maybe they just don't like HTTP ? Maybe it's time to make HTTP to join BBS ?
They dont care about music, they want to make sure you are not listening to podcast they dont like.
Do it
Do it! I challenge you! People nowdays won't drop an every day thing just like that.
Does Spotify really have "fans"? Or maybe just users? And what user spends time "threatening" piracy, if they know how to do it?
Also, I realized only last month that my younger brother doesn't know how to use torrents. Shame on me for having left home too early!
Arr!!! Me hearty
I am using Spotify Premium. I am using Premium because I want ad free listening.
Spotify was shit anyway use yt music
won't they suffer the same fate?
For now yt music is what new Spotify was , but when one goes down the other cums and dominate
😳