Used Tesla prices tumble as embarrassed owners look to sell
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2025/03/used-tesla-prices-tumble-as-embarrassed-owners-look-to-sell/Open linkView original on feddit.org1652
Comments304https://arstechnica.com/cars/2025/03/used-tesla-prices-tumble-as-embarrassed-owners-look-to-sell/Open linkView original on feddit.org
Who knew that being a publicly facing cunt makes people not want to buy your product. Shocking discovery.
These people literally live in reaffirming social bubbles they have created. On and offline both. They don't see that they are overplaying their hand.
This article should bring you joy.
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2025/03/elon-musk-human-meme-stock/682023/
https://archive.is/wVxLV
Ublock works just fine on the Atlantic.
Not me me on Firefox (Windows). Something I'm missing?
So, I'm using IronFox on Android with uBlock Origin on medium mode. Not an ad or other problem to be seen on that site. On Windows I use LibreWolf with the same uBlock setup.
These are aggressive setups that can break some sites, but after a while of tweaking it carefully you don't notice it's there anymore.
oh yea too many adblocking or cookie blocking can break the site. so i just restrict some adblockers .
Coulda fooled me
What was not nice about imparting information?
No I'll just block you instead. Seriously, what is wrong with people?
Sure, but not everyone is using Ublock? One could argue that they should be, but what's wrong with offering an alternative?
I never said there was anything wrong. I was letting them know ublock works just fine on the Atlantic. Imagine that, the words I wrote were what I meant. You people are so fucking weird reading so much into the simplest sentence.
LMAO! See Tony Stark blow Musk off like a loser in Iron Man II:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxe1HCR7uEk
I'd be humiliated were I him. His head's so far up his ass he likely sees that cameo as a plus.
thats why hes been called phoney stark, for a while his profile has him wearing the ironman outfit.
And this is the no paywall link https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theatlantic.com%2Ftechnology%2Farchive%2F2025%2F03%2Felon-musk-human-meme-stock%2F682023
Somehow, I don't think MAGA cult will buy electric vehicles in quantities needed to offset even a fraction of people who used to buy Tesla.
Imagine the CEO of Browning or American Rifles helping Joe Biden pick out a new gun from a display in the state dining room.
The difference is Biden is a gun owner. So at least it would be buying a product he actually has. There has been incidents referencing him and his wife having at least a shotgun (so 2+ guns)
With Trump hating on electric cars like he had for so long, and not knowing how to drive, it's a bit different.
Old rich guy like Biden probably has loads of nice, quality, antique guns.
Many families don't throw away guns, they pass them down. So antiques are a plenty as well. Being that his dad was born in 1915, it's very likely they have guns from before WW1 around.
You ruined my joke. I was going to say, "Antique guns, bought new."
everything’s computer
Half of them are broke as fuck and the other half are heavily invested in oil company stocks. Elon made a poor choice of allegiance.
A portion also associate EVs and their ilk with environmentalists, and would probably not buy one even if their very lives depended on it.
Which they might well do.
I’m not sure any of them have strong enough positions on anything other than their next grift. They would become Captain Planet if it kept them on the gravy train.
Well if they make a Cybertruck 2 that's lifted and looks like the Dildozer, they might have a new market. It'll get 50 miles per-charge, but it'll intimidate their neighbor's kid, so it's worth the $380,000 price tag (financed, of course).
The GMC Hummer EV Pickup Truck has entered the chat.
205-kWh capacity battery [three times the size in a crossover], still gets only 275 miles [2023 version].
That truck weighs a whopping 10,000 lbs though.
...yeah, we are a very dumb species and it's good that we're going to go extinct in WW3.
I'm sure he'll put a turbo diesel in it too
They’re trying the “buy EVs to own the libs” angle. It’s a bold strategy, Cotton….
which is great, because it will increase the chance that tesla will go down and with that elon musk.
I don't think the MAGA Cult can even AFFORD electric vehicles, I mean, shit I know I can't.
Yeah does Elon not know who his main economic base is? Environmental and techy liberals that love to cancel people, he got into the wrong business for his political leanings I think
Eh...put a lift kit, USA flag wrap, and a smoke machine on the cyber truck and they'd double sales.
I don't think the Venn diagram of "ev buyer" and "trump voter" is big enough to double sales.
Ah, yes... Let me tell you about a little restaurant called Chick fil a...
Never underestimate hate, stupidity, and laziness.
You can blow that exact point up pretty large. The MAGA verse is a parasite on the rest of the US. I would love to see them try to stand on their own as an independent nation. It would be Texas + a bunch of little shithole countries gathered around its skirts. They wouldn’t have the economic wherewithal to GDP their way out of a wet paper bag.
I think that's what the Cybertruck is for, to appeal to Conservatives. I live on the edge between blue and red counties, and down in red territory the Cybertrucks are everywhere. (Meaning I saw at least four different ones.)
Same people proudly claiming the market is self regulating shocked when the market responds to them being openly fascist cunts.
stealmytesla.com
This is beautiful
If beattheshitoutofmytesla.com was a thing I'd do contract work on my weekends.
Hell, I'll roll out for free.
With phrasing like that, you should start a gang. Call yourselves the Autobots.
Is this where American monied have compounds?
Yeah, that's part of the problem, Elon.
Elon out here thinking Twitter bots are real people. Too much ketamine.
I shamefully admit I almost pulled the trigger on a Tesla Model S Plaid back in 2021 or 2022. Flush with a shit ton of cash, but fortunately I was reading reports of production build quality issues, many recalls, and ultimately pulled back my deposit.
Looking back at it. The one decision I have no regrets on.
That's the part I never understood. Even if you weren't a Musk fan boy and before Musk showed his true colors, Telsa has always, ALWAYS been shit quality. I remember back in 2015, or so, there was a video of someone finally getting their Telsa and it had a massive crack running the length of the driver side A-pillar, yet they just ignored it.
I'll have to be honest and admit back when I was in high school or so, I was enthusiastic about electric cars and his seemed like some of the best. He was also opening up the charging standards so that there could be a mixed playing field. Back then, I was likely ready to dismiss small critiques as the retaliation of the fossil fuel industry.
God I hate old me.
All your reasons were valid though. Teslas were the best electric cars for a long time, probably not so anymore. Tesla as a brand has done good things, like you say opening up their charging standard which is superior to all the other competitors.
Personally, I wouldn't get a Tesla because they are sort of like the apple of car companies, e.g. anti-consumer and anti-repair. Plus, Musk owning it is another big negative.
Just like model ts were the best for a long time because they were the only ones.
tesla just had good marketing, while thier TESLAS have been lacking QC for quite a while.
You're always supposed to hate or be embarrassed by the old you; that means you learned. It means growth. It's a good thing.
Take it from an old man, at a certain point you will grow beyond having to feel "embarassed" by your former self, because your ego won't be tied to it.
Probably not that much different tbh.
I think you can understand something without embracing it or condoning it. I did a few bad things, it's understandable that kids with that age and upbringing will, as long as you own what you did, put right what you can and atone for the rest, there's no need to hate yourself.
Tesla was a long way ahead of the competition for a very long time, to the point where they were the only option for a vehicle that was genuinely a replacement for a combustion vehicle.
Without them, I very much doubt EV market share would be anywhere near what it is today.
I'm not sure how it even managed to get so big when the EV1 was so beloved but supposedly killed by the automotive industry.
The EV1 was too far ahead of its time. The tech wasn’t there and to even accomplish what they did cost far more than they could hope to sell it for. An estimate that each EV1 cost GM around $100k to make in the early 90’s (so around $200k in today’s dollars).
Battery tech has progressed massively since then and makes all of this possible now (even if it’s still expensive).
If you've seen Who Killed The Electric Car, check out Revenge Of The Electric Car.
Don't know about that. Leaf has been pretty important as well.
It has been, but the leaf was very much a "second car" for a very long time. They had relatively short range, an air cooled battery, and as a result couldn't be charged particularly fast. The battery would also overheat if you tried to charge it multiple times.
Tesla, on the water, had a water cooled battery pack, and could be fast charged multiple times per day, and much faster than other vehicles, meaning a road trip was actually possible.
The Leaf was cheap. It introduced many to EVs. They are super common third or fourth hand now. It was aimed at the other end of the market than the Tesla.
Even now, the Leaf only goes 200 miles. Less than a 2018 Model 3. Not good enough.
I agree, Tesla was the viable option fora long time. The charging network is part of that even still.
The NACS connector is a big deal.
Range is important, but so is cost. Teslas are too expensive for Leaf owners.
My 7 seat EV only does at most 150 miles. But even now, two years later, there isn't anything else that comfortably fits 7 adults. Let alone not over twice the price. So 200 miles seams ok to me.
I agree standard charger connectors are important. But CHAdeMO is standard, just not in Europe or North America. Can't blame the Leaf for not knowing that would happen.
The Leaf is also one of the very few cars, least in the UK, which can be using bidirectionally. https://www.indra.co.uk/v2g/
I don't own a Leaf, but I respect what they did. You see loads of them here.
Yes, because it was cheap.
Tesla is basically a case study in top down engineering. Radical ideas promised by marketing, sometimes good and sometimes bad, executed in a massive fucking rush which results in tons of build quality and general delivering on promises issues.
Which only worked at first because they were a start up. At that point many people will accept the early adopter woes, but Tesla never quite matured out of it.
yep. They rested on their laurels, thinking their success of being first would always be success.
and now the big automakers have their own electric cars, that are properly built, and damn cheap compared to tesla prices.
and the first tesla musk had any design input on was the cybertruck, which is nothing more than the fever dream of an edgy emotionally stunted 13 year old, and built to about the same quality as you would expect from one
If you were an EV early adopter, Tesla is the only brand that delivered the range.
So, they were the only game in town for a lot of buyers.
Not nearly as big a problem now. Tesla has real competition which is why sales are crashing.
I got you.
Www.stealmytesla.com
No need to be embarrassed anymore!
The customer service part... 😂
That should be higher up on the page, since that'd be the primary value of that service.
It's also the point where it's blindingly obvious the site is a joke, so I do think it's best saved for last.
Excellent work by someone there. I love the customer service agent with the ski mask (who can barely keep a straight face) lol
Nice idea, but what if I want my tesla set on fire instead?
Well then you're in luck because that might already be a feature of the model you have!
Please be real.
It really is a website that can be linked to!
So is The Onion.
The brand is forever damaged. Sell while you can.
I feel bad for Nikola Tesla having his name associated with all this nonsense. Not even death let him escape from rich assholes taking credit for the work of others.
I'm actually a big fan of Edison Motors, who are working to make heavy trucks into hybrids. And they're Canadian!
Me too. I want to get another of the car I drove in high school and slap a hybrid kit in it
The car I had in high school is absurdly rare these days.
I had a 1989 Ford Probe.
Did the probe share parts etc with the eagle talon and the Mitsubishi eclipse or am i thinking of something else?
His legacy can live on with Dr Parkinstein. (Parker Edmondson)
if Nikola Tesla weren't a eugenicist i'd agree with you
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/nikola-tesla-the-eugenicist-eliminating-undesirables-by-2100-130299355/
Oof, that's a tough read.
Eh, I don't buy this. There were always dissenters and weirdos and people knew differently. There were trans pioneers. There were vegans. There were abolitionists. Not everyone was like that.
Tesla wasn't a biologist, let's leave it at that. Humanity's greatest biological strength is their adaptability, which requires variety. Eugenicism is inherently disadvantageous to humanity because it reduces their ability to adapt and respond to environmental threats. A counter to that would be E.O. Wilson, see Half Earth, a short read that emphasizes biodiversity.
Eugenics only makes sense to cowardly people who are afraid of being treated how they would treat others. It's a bad idea to Cavendish Banana Hapsberg people (oh and btw eugenics is deeply tied to incest kinks, see Elon and Trump).
Again, this is thinking that is pretty intuitive if you aren't bloodthirsty and pathetic
I have read a number of comments from people with illnesses or other issues that are genetic, saying they don't want to pass their problems onto the next generation.
So, bizarrely enough, there is a certain amount of eugenics happening, it's just purely voluntary.
Fair enough.
Kind of me, I have a genetic heart defect I don't intent to pass on. Though realistically, it was unlikely to happen in the first place.
Oof.
People say that because they support it and they don't think it's a big deal. There were always anti-eugenicist movements (and always people opposed to fucking children, and having slaves, and even eating meat or going to war, and other morally shitty things justified with this excuse). That's literally how the movements against these things came about - people throughout time have been against them. You just discount them because you align yourself with the other side, for some reason.
Tesla was not mentally well. But he had the power to make weapons, including a so called "Death Beam" https://www.pbs.org/tesla/ll/ll_mispapers.html
And look, Trump connection:
https://www.pbs.org/tesla/ll/ll_mispapers.html
It's not about "judging," it's about not feeling sorry for Tesla's name being attached to a shitty eugenicist since he himself was a eugenicist
Imagine disregarding the entire domain of Tesla's work - changing the entire world as we know it with his research and innovations - and the comment they need to make for online points is some virtue-oriented pat-me-on-the-back-im-ethical blorp about random social norms of the time. lol but cry.
He had really bad autism. He was in love with a pigeon. Brilliant he was, but mad as a hatter.
I think he was just intuitively good at seeing what exactly is the portrayal of electricity and magnetism. A unique genius with a certain insight.
I sometimes feel that there were many businesses concerns that grew around his early research and they were so successful that his newer research must have been a threat to that.
Through all the mystery, half-truths, and frankly magical thinking people have with this man, it's really hard to know what he was up to in his final days of work, before he became a homeless bag-man. I somehow feel, without making any kind of declarative statement, that he was working on transmission of energy with longitudinal (vs transverse) waves, and discovering methods of conveying and extracting electrical potential from and through Earth.
Inline Edit: To expand on the above paragraph: The Earth doesn't really "absorb" electrons like a pillow absorbing a ping pong ball. The energy in the negative charges that the Earth grounds must move in waves, therefore they're grounded but now the waves are bouncing around in the Earth; that energy still exists and may sum with other waves in an additive way. I believe, again without making a declarative statement, that Tesla recognized this and was pioneering research on how to transmit energy via, and gather momentum from those waves. There were successes transmitting energy and encoded information through Earth which can be repeated today with garbage dump salvage electronics. I believe he was discovering a few dangerous things as well: Harmonic discharges of electrical devices to ground could be captured (think telecommunications and military); and he was conducting novel elemental research on tapping Earth to harmonize and extract force(s) - what these things portended led to his complete scientific alienation.
The word "free energy" always obliterates any form of rational discourse. But there was something to it in a way, but to clarify, not in a literal way. Not in the sense of violating fundamental laws of conservation, rather seeing the "other side of the coin" that if the Earth is effectively infinite Ground then it's also effectively an "infinite" source of power if harvested.
I've never really "researched" the man directly but what I do know comes from quite a bit of my casual STEM self-study over decades.
Carvana bought mine at a decent price. I imagine the coming glut will have them refusing to buy Teslas outright. Other enraged Tesla owners should unload theirs asap.
Not everyone is the position to sell their car, especially at huge finacial loss. So they buy the stupid sticker to make them selves feel a little better.
Many bought the thing 5+ years ago when Tesla was basically the only electric with a real charging network and in a time before Musk went from eccentric billionaire to an out-of-the-closet Nazi.
Now anyone buying one new today, that's a different story (Which makes it harder to sell the damn thing).
Well, being financially stupid doesn't mean you're also a "limp dicked piss baby champagne socialist."
It don't matter how they got the car. They could have saved up for years, have been cutting costs elsewhere in life, or just have a well paying job; buying a car at 40k+ and selling it for 20k, especially if they still have 30k left on the loan is a dumb move even for the financially illiterate.
Some people reallying don't understand arp. Also staus symbol and they could have brought it realozed they are underwater on the loan and are stuck with it.
In 2012 a Ford Focus full Electric was almost $40,000 MSRP with a probable markup at just about any dealer in the country. The only thing that makes that kind of investment affordable is the tax break. The Tesla model 3 (in comparison) was around $25,000 MSRP in 2019. With a 3 year auto loan at 5-6% interest that cost is $31,760.50. The electric focus would have cost $49,305.44 for the same loan term and interest rate.
And they can't even sell these vehicles for bluebook value (assuming that the vehicle is paid off and they aren't upside down on the loan for say a loan term of 5 or 7 years).
A Mach e? Almost $39,000 MSRP. Chevy Bolt? $27,500 MSRP. Hyundai Ioniq? Almost $40,000 MSRP. Nissan Leaf is just over $29,000.
There aren't that many cars that are good financial decisions to be made in a market with so few options where range and ability to charge are majorly important to what you buy.
Toyota's Mirai isn't even top rated and it starts at $52,000. So yes. Huge financial loss, and Tesla's aren't that expensive when compared to other brands (the cybercuck not included).
Why the fuck are you defending this shit?
Also I am tired of hearing about how Musk only recently went insane, dude has been off the rails for as long as I can remember.
Eccentric billionaire? My ass dude, he was an asshole and insane always for anyone paying at least a little bit of attention.
It just finally caught up to him and now everyone wants to cry wolf that has been supporting him? Fuck off.
I didn’t think they were defending it. The reality is some people live in a bubble and don’t pay close attention to the media, and switching cars is not exactly an easy thing to do without getting fucked over.
Many people are upside down on their car note, and when you trade in with negative equity on a car loan, that negative equity gets added to the new loan balance. It’s kind of a big deal for the average person.
Switching cars isnt easy but buying an expensive one made by a madman is?
I had Tesla sales reps at my WeWork office one week back in like 2019 iirc. They had a very aggressive sales campaign for a while at least. One even offered to have me test drive a Model 3 right their in the parking garage, which I declined.
So yes, they were making it very easy. Have you ever had car salesman show up at your office?
Until relatively recently, if you were an American who wanted to buy an electric car and wanted to guarantee you wouldn't be stranded somewhere with a dead battery, Tesla was literally the only option.
I had all of those things and didnt buy one as many others. Crazy that when you buy a car from a nazi lunatic things dont work out
Buying a Tesla made by a Nazi is one of the most expensive and dumbest things you could ever do.
What do you want to have happen? The car exists and is in an owner's hands already. Elon doesn't make any more money no matter if they sell it or not. It's environmental waste to simply scrap it. What are the options, here?
Elon has the large part of his fortune tied to the future of Telsa, which is 90% selling cars. If no-one buys those cars, and if the second hand market is seen to be almost worthless, then the fortune and Elon's power disappears.
If they use the Supercharger network, or get the vehicle serviced by Tesla, then they're making money still.
But, the right thing to do is to keep running the vehicle, you're right about that.
At least some Teslas use the Supercharger network for free, so they're a drain on the company at this point. But I think they canned that program a while back for new sales.
Personally, if I picked one up (and I probably wouldn't unless it was even cheaper than they are now), I'd spray paint it in gaudy pansexual pride flag colors.
I think that's only a handful of the model S that had free lifetime charging, and the few that are still around are getting pretty worn out by now.
I dont give af what happens. Defending people buying a car made by a Nazi madman is simply pathetic.
Glances nervously at Ford, Mitsubishi, VW, BMW...
Shh if the guy you're replying to could read history theyd be very upset
What are you talking about? Most Tesla owners are progressives. This whole thing is a gut punch to Tesla owners.
With as strong and emotional you seem to feel about this topic, I sincerely hope you have never used an iPhone, used Facebook, bought a product off Amazon, taken an Uber ride, or consumed any Nestle products.
If you've eaten a single hot pocket, you have no ground to stand on here.
I love that comic, but it's unfortunately not applicable to this conversation. If anything, it's more applicable in response to @MellowYellow13.
This person is clearly being overly reactive to the situation and isn't listening to reason. By all means, don't buy a Tesla in the year of our lord 2025, but if you bought one in like 2019, that's kind of irrelevant. Those people shouldn't be punished for what they saw as an innocuous purchase at the time. To tell people they just straight up need to sell their car is asinine.
I'm not saying "omg you participate in society, you're just as bad", moreso pointing out how absolutely ridiculous @MellowYellow13 's platform here is. Things that have already been done are irrelevant, let's look to the future to improve things, no? If you've bought a Tesla in the past, it does not matter, just as if you've bought an iPhone, used Facebook, etc.
You completely missed my message.
Lol, a lot of rich people are rich assholes, that's nothing new. Think Bezos is saint, how about that one CEO who made people go to work during a flood, did you like Brain Thompson, Ulf Mark Schneider - do you even know who that is?or back in the day when they used to lock workers in the factory or shove children in the mines.
The rich have always been assholes, Musk is just more public about it. 5 years ago, he was just another rich owner of a company. The company made something good, so people bought it in support of the product not specifically the owner and his values, just like every time someone buys a nestle product.
Your argument that 5 years ago he was just another rich person is utter bullshit. I remember him a decade ago being legit insane.
Again, everyone just wants to cry wolf now that has been supporting him
You're out of touch, my man. 90% of the population aren't paying attention to what rich people are saying and doing. Pretending that everyone that bought a Tesla 5+ years ago knew that he was an insane asshole all along and are now feigning ignorance of that fact to save face doesn't make it reality. But whatever, keep getting worked up over something that doesn't really matter at present.
That's nice not everyone payed that close attention, they got sold a car and are now stuck with a shitty reputation by association. Some people are afraid to drive their car because they'll get harassed by people who can only see telsa driver = musk supporter.
You could blame the buyers for their ignorance, but its pretty normal to have no clue who the CEO/owner is of whatever car brand you buy. How many can name 1 beside Musk or Henry Ford?
Henry Ford was a huge nazi as well.
I can guarantee you that 95% of car owners don't know the name of the CEO of their car company. Most people who bought Teslas years ago didn't know or care who Elon Musk is.
I do not have a problem with people owning Teslas sold before 2020 or so. Even buying an older one used is no big deal in my opinion. If you buy a 2021 Tesla today, none of that money goes to Musk. You are not agreeing with him. You are not propping him up.
Yup, They are also rich privileged extremists that were fine supporting a madman until shit hit the fan
Sure am glad I couldn’t afford one of those things back when I wanted one.
Right? Who knew that making a product that half of the population wants to buy and then making your brand based around the exact half of the population that lives in contempt of this product instead was a bad idea?
1/3. These cretins are a loud, fascist minority.
Honestly? Might not be a bad idea to consider buying a used Tesla after they tank in value.
No money goes to Elon in that exchange, so you're not supporting the fascist prick. They made their money off the first buyer.
It's environmentally friendly to buy a used vehicle, rather than a new one, as you extend it's life and reduce it's carbon footprint
Since everybody is abandoning them, they're cheaper than other options.
My only reservation is that I'd be driving around a Tesla still, so if I did something like this I'd have to de-brand the hell out of it somehow to make it appear as a generic "an car".
Your heart's in the right place but this is bad advice.
Teslas are still wickedly expensive to repair and there's only the dealership who can do those repairs.
And the parts break way too often, even parts that shouldn't break ever, like the door handles that only Tesla can replace. The cost of that can apparently be over $1k. For a door handle.
It'd be a money pit after the warranty period runs out. You're still going to be better off with a run of the mill beater car
Until Tesla allows other shops to do repairs, those swastikars will never be economical even if you ignore the Nazi part
Your point about buying used being better for the environment also applies to older gas powered cars too, which will be easier and cheaper to repair
Obligatory fuck elon before I write the rest of the comment.
I have had a Tesla for 4 years now and as a car they are quite good (newer models got worse).
Super cheap to run, no oil, no filters other than cabin air, no yearly dealership maintenance to keep the warranty. And you charge it at home, super cheap and convenient. (yeah, same applies for any other electric car).
Repair costs (had a few fender benders) are comparable to my old BMW, maybe a bit lower. A door handle never broke on mine, but I just looked and found one on ebay for 15 EUR in case it breaks in the future. Can't say it's unreasonable. There's simply less mechanical things to go wrong with the car, and over time the 3rd party shops can do almost everything, for a similar price to any other car. And if/when the battery ages (8 years warranty), you can still use it at home.
Fun to drive, too, and quite efficient, more than most electric cars.
Nowadays I would never buy one new, and even used it somewhat does rise the price of other Teslas, but I'm not planning to sell mine, I would lose quite a lot of money to end up with a similar car. I am in the market for a second car and it's definitely going to be electric, but no chance for a Tesla.
There’s a lot of hyperbole out there about quality and repair costs. I know people want to devalue the brand any way they can, I don’t fault that. But, my first-release Model 3 was a really great car. I’m really going to miss it.
As I was walking away after selling it, I couldn’t help but say “it’s not your fault, buddy. You didn’t deserve this and I will always have a place in my heart for you. You were merely a victim of evil beyond our control. Good night, sweet prince.”
I can understand why your next one will be electric as pretty much all the benefits you describe are benefits of an EV not a Tesla.
I drive an old beater of a leaf and have the same list
Benefits of specifically Tesla is that they're dirt cheap comparatively, especially if you actually want a car and not some giant honking SUV or pickup truck. You can get a car with a 360+ mile range (3rd parties tested and got slightly more) for ~$35k after federal rebate. No one can compete with that and it's not even close.
I can't argue with that, at least in the US that's always been a strength of their's.
I initially held the view that range was irrelevant if it's a massive battery but even on that score Tesla seemed to be ahead of the game for a long time on the efficiency (miles per kw). Not sure if the market has caught up as I'm not at that end of the food chain so speak.
Yes, the Model 3 is pretty much the most efficient vehicle you can buy (next to a Lucid)
The efficiency is actually WHY it's so inexpensive (less money spent on batteries, which comprise a huge portion of their cost) and WHY it drives me absolutely bonkers that the only EVs anyone wants to make anymore are fucking Tonka trucks.
They're also ahead of just about everyone in terms of their charging network.
It's one of the most expensive in Canada. 60K for a RWD base Model 3. You can get an AWD Ioniq for that, and should, since Hyundai can actually build a car.
That's crazy, I wonder why that is?
Does the Hyundai have 350+ miles of range at that price?
Also I did say I was specifically speaking about cars, not SUVs.
Range on both is over 500km. They're pretty much the only EVs that have that much range. But the fit and finish on the Ioniq makes it a luxury car by comparison. And they don't have that Musky smell about them.
I've owned a Tesla and I'd say your wrong about pretty much everything here.
The whole point of buying an EV is that it stops polluting after it's been manufactured (ignoring tires) and specifically that you stop polluting your local environment, making it out like used gas powered cars are just as good as used EVs is disingenuous at best.
Where are you getting that from? There are plenty of 3rd party shops that can and do service Teslas. They even made their repair manuals public and sell the OEM components online.
That's a door handle on a $100k+ car.
That's illegal AF in the EU, or at least Germany. They already got into very hot water for trying to price independent repairs out by making their diagnostic software ludicrously expensive.
Must be nice not having business owners literally hanging out in the executive office all the time.
Oh they certainly do but the SME lobby tends to have more influence. Repair shops are businesses, too.
And it's not always a good thing, e.g. when it comes to the Supply Chain Act the fat cat lobby was way more sane than the SME one: Nestle doesn't mind monitoring its supply chain for human rights abuses it's quite vertically integrated and the practice is a great defence against lawsuits and also getting fucked over / internal corruption while the SMEs are fearing bureaucracy and costs. It's not like slave farm owners would share their ill-gotten profits with Nestle, they pocket the difference to standard market prices.
It's actually illegal in some US states, too. Right to repair at the federal level is still being fought, iirc. There was a lot of progress being made around 2023, but got stalled. Hopefully the current oligarchy administration doesn't end up butchering that movement, but I'm not very optimistic.
Everything on them can be fixed by a regular mechanic, and Tesla isn't stopping it (at least not in Europe). People are getting 3rd party special shops to fix HV batteries and motors on old model S without any issues. Brakes, suspension, steering, LV electrical (windows, lights, handles etc.), AC can be fixed by anyone without issues. And aside from body parts and a few specialty components (their "octovalve" comes to mind), it's mostly standard auto components that can be bought from 3rd party manufacturers without giving Tesla any money.
Edit: a model 3/Y door handle is around $100, of course still expensive but also far below your $1000 example, and on par with an original handle for my old ass Peugeot 308.
Part of the win is electric vs gas too though. Use the electric until it's gone and toasted then get a beater.
No money goes to Elon directly, but it still increases the market price of Teslas. So someone else deciding between used and new might just buy new because it doesn't cost much extra.
One could say the same about not selling your Tesla in the first place.
One downside is that Teslas are uncomfortable. I liked them a lot circa 2016, the Model S used to be my favorite vehicle. They simply haven’t held a competitive advantage, or in the case of the 3/Y, are genuinely quite bad. I’d rather pay more for something better, and that was before the CEO became this.
I've had my model 3 for 4 years and it's more comfortable than any previous car I've driven. What is bad about them (other than the fuckwit CEO)?
I guess I wanna clarify that it’s bad in my opinion, not objectively. I’ll return to this later. I just don’t wanna seem like I’m shitting on your car or the reasons you got it.
Cars are typically comfortable when they have good ride quality and interior. The Model 3 has the absolute worst in both regards of any EV I’ve tried. The suspension is legendarily poor and is my primary complaint— it truly feels like punishment. As if every road imperfection was multiplied, not dampened. They could’ve given it the interior of an S class and I’d still find it uncomfortable. Yet the interior is sterile and features low quality materials. I tried my best to recall any one comfort besides heated seats, but I truly believe it is bereft of them.
So, back to how this is my personal opinion. I am a traditional comfort guy: good ride quality, creature comforts, high quality materials. For those who don’t care about that, the Model 3 is a great “get me there” vehicle. The software is good and it has ample driving assistance. The supercharger network is unrivaled if you don’t mind funding Musk (I do, so even though mine can now access the network I won’t use it). It’s very functional. Just not physically comfortable.
I’ll admit that most of the EVs I’ve tried are Model S competitors, not 3, but I’d still take either Ioniqs or the Mach-E over the 3. Also the latest Model 3 improved the suspension, but I’ve yet to try it
Fair enough.
I have always had rather sporty vehicles so the suspension of mine (2021 3 competition) feels just fine. Sporty, rather hard, but not uncomfortable. Not floaty of course. Some people put a kw suspension for about 3k, which apparently makes it much better than comparable cars. I test drove one and didn't notice that much of a difference, so passed on the upgrade.
As for the materials, they are average or above in its price class. New VWs are notably worse. BMW are notably better but also 30% more expensive. Haven't been in an ioniq but non-electric Hyundai and kias are worse IMHO. The interior design is clearly very subjective, but the materials are just fine. Not a lot of hard plastics or anything like that, everything you touch is... fine.
Yeah that tracks. I’ve always been comfort minded so the Model 3 feels really bad to me.
For materials, they’re like one step above hard plastic. They don’t feel like high quality versions of whatever material they are, if that makes sense. “Just… fine” is a good descriptor. Unfortunately I don’t spend a ton of time in its competitors so I may have been unfair to the materials by comparing it to more expensive options. And yeah, in my case the barebones interior feels less comfortable.
I do hope you keep liking the car! None of us ex Tesla supporters could have seen this coming, so it shouldn’t hinder your enjoyment.
Ill give you $200 for the battery, the motor, and some chonky relays if you scrape the branding off.
I saw pics of someone that rebadged their model 3 I think it was with an Audi badge, and if you knew nothing about cars it looked believable.
I saw one with the Mazda logo that looks pretty good
I reckon the Mazda badge is a good call as the tesla 3 has the vibe of a Mazda I think.
I rmemeber rocking up to guys place to buy a sofa and his mum was there, I said I really liked her Hyundai Coupe and she said it wasn't one as she'd got different badges on it. Found it so funny that it was a nice looking car at the time but she clearly couldn't cope with the idea of owning a Hyundai
There's a lot of cars where even a car nut wouldn't pick they'd been badge swapped.
Most hatchbacks you can only tell apart by the shape of the lights.
It's hilarious
I was joking with some friends about doing exactly this. Schuck it down to just the battery and minimal drivetrain, and make a very heavy go-kart.
There are people who use tesla parts to make electric car conversions
I just looked up the motor, that's a bit bigger than a living room coffee table project. I may regret my offer.
RichRebuilds.
I know at least one YouTuber cutdown a salvage Plaid and put a Honda Odyssey minivan shell on it for drag racing.
What are you gonna make?
Hopefully a better car.
I'll be 100% honest, I don't know but I like to think I would at least get the motor going for a little bit before it melts and stinks up the house. Just like most things i play around with.
Elon is getting slapped by the invisible hand.
I think this hand ain't invisible. Well at least one finger isn't.
Who will service those when Tesla goes out of business? Where will you get parts? Yeah, it's time to jump ship
You can still get aftermarket parts for Pontiac vehicles. Then again Pontiac didn't go around suing everyone who even thought about making aftermarket parts for their vehicles.
Pontiac was a part of GM, who standardized most parts across all their brands decades ago.
There's no parent company for Tesla.
I hope byd buys them for pennies on the dollar and they keep people employed
But most importantly I hope it's for pennies on the thousands of dollars
There are already aftermarket batteries. The biggest problem would be autobody panels.
That said, while I hope Tesla stock continues to crash, not much chance of them going out of business.
It's a pretty big chance, yeah, even with bailouts
spacex and starlink need to be the next to go.
It should be a part of NASA
Honestly I'm surprised Elon hasn't killed the SLS and given SpaceX that contract; it's one of the few things that would both benefit him and increase the efficiency of the government. He's probably scared of Boeing suiciding him.
We did pay for it.
We're still giving Elon $80 million a day.
I’m so glad that I lost my job in 2016 and had to cancel my Tesla Model 3 reservation. When I eventually got a better paying job in 2017 I played it safe -assumed I could lose it at any moment- and bought a Chevrolet Spark which has served me well.
That would be good for the EV conversion market. Since they use a lot of Tesla motors and battery packs.
@[email protected] "Fuck Elon" is becoming the punch buggy of this generation.
Combine a toxic brand with a level of ridiculously poor Quality Control we haven't seen from a US automaker since the Saturn brand, and you get a price point/distressd asset that PE will be looking at. They've already calculated the value of selling Tesla for parts and just waiting for the stock to hit a number to act. Elon is so over leveraged, there will be nothing he can do to stop it.
While it's nice to protest outside of the Tesla dealership, people should be protesting outside of US embassies, and while they are at it, protest outside of the Chinese and Russian embassies too. Block them in.
Volkswagen did okay. Mind you, only after Hitler's empire had collapsed and Hitler himself had eaten a bullet.
Elon, if you're listening...
Not a call to violence, but while correlation doesn't mean causation... Well.
History rhythms and we're impatient for the verse to end.
Yeah don’t wait for that. You’ll only be disappointed.
They are currently doing their damnedest to collapse the US economy, it's entirely possible that a simple recession let alone a depression could collapse the federal government. This would make their billions monopoly money and make them easy pickings, the ravens would feast.
Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see it. But they have so much power and money and military that they could declare martial law and lock it all down before that. They own things other than money: property, supplies, land. Yes, hungry people would go after that, but this isn’t the French Revolution. The weapons of the elite are much more powerful now.
The thing is they're fucking over everyone military included, sure they could theoretically give guns to untrained morons but that's only so effective. Also I kinda doubt there are enough mud boots to lock down LA let alone every city. There may be a million active military personnel but a solid majority of that is support staff that would be hard to shift around if not impossible.
That's all just looking at the basic military aspect. Plenty of them own property but that's kinda meaningless if the enforcement mechanics also break down. I doubt any of them have billions in physical assets and yet again would any of it be worth anything could they enforce their ownership properly or would their own security start stripping the copper from the walls.
Also when empires collapse it's never for one reason, and the US has many reasons. Don't believe the hype of the rich, they have nothing of worth short of their organs in a collapse scenario of any type.
Geez ... easy, bro.
We're not saying you can't enjoy it, alright! But if you start perving on the violence, don't think we're not gonna take notice, okay?
Banned for calling out facts lmao
Not really, was banned for being an incoherent troll
Well, at least you own it!
Then why is THAT comment deleted. Just trying to squash the conversation.
What are you going on about? He was banned for trolling, and standard SOP for most mods dealing with trolls is to delete all their content (with a single click).
Seems needlessly extreme to just wipe away conversions
Be a mod. Deal with trolls on a regular basis. At some point you too with have absolutely no desire to scroll through their history filled with insults and ragebait to judge each and every comment individually. Confirmed troll? Check. Nuke all comments from said user. Done.
glances at list of comms I mod/created Okay buddy. From the looks of it you're not even a mod HERE in this comm, so, whatever have a nice day
Not seeing the issue with that post.
See other comment thread discussing why mods don't bother with trolls.
Saw a Tesla today that someone stuck an old Rover badge on, cracked me up
At this point I expect to see them abandoned on the side of the road with a "Just take it" sign over the engine
😑
Oh, I guess I meant over the hood
Akshually it's called a frunk like anybody gives a shit.
Soon it can be scrapped for steel and you could make money off buying them.
I'm not sure they're going to be able to give those things away.
Seems to me, at this point, this is a bit like owning anything with a swastika on it in 1946.
Everytime I see our local cyber truck I hope someone vandalizes it.
White people are selling, Indians are buying. Every Indian neighbor I have owns at least one Tesla
Yeap. Too late to sell now.
Most people who own these crappy cars can't even really afford them. Now they are in big trouble because they can't get rid of them. Lol.
I know this the unpopular opinion at the moment, but what electric sedan is better than a model 3? The rest of the producers have all decided we want to drive crossovers or boxes and simply cannot figure out how to make a frunk.
Now just block trump properties
whos buying used teslas? its like asking for trouble consider thier defectiveness.
Speaking from personal experience, most likely immigrants who don't know much about us politics and still watch news and shows from their home country or in their own language.
Growing up, even though I was born in the USA, I'd only listen to what my parents heard (until I was a teen), watched what they watched (Univision, etc), are mostly Salvadorian food at home.
I wonder if someone breaking it and collecting insurance money from it would end up being the preferred option over selling it.
Three fiddy and I will use for target practice.
What if everyone would transfer their PayPal credit to a regular bank account on the same day? Would that bring Paypal value down?
what you expect from temupanzers
FAFO
I hope they lose money because they bought a 1939 Volkswagan with an electric motor on it, and then claimed
These people bought them because they thought he was a real life Tony Stark, especially the early models and Cybertrucks. I consider everyone driving in one a useful idiot for Trump and Musk.
No sympathy.
Who is buying all these Teslas that Tesla owners are all selling because nobody wants a Tesla?
Nobody which is why the used market on them is crashing.
They are called "people"
Amazing
I have one that’s nearly 7 years old, fully paid for and still works well. I hate having to own any car and environmentally, the best car is the one you already have. Getting an equivalent car at a reduced trade-in price would cost 20k and I would do it on principle if I could afford to.
BMW and Mercedes both supported Nazi’s during the holocaust and I believe they should receive the same treatment but it’s been the better part of a century and they’re still here. I’d go so far as to argue that cars are just consumerized war vehicles that a civil society has limited use for given the potential benefits of mass transit.
Oil companies bribed and lobbied against clean, efficient, exciting transit decades ago and were all poorer for it.
How is it in any way relevant what German car makers were doing 80+ years ago? Unless you also think all modern-day Germans should be "cancelled".
Apart from that I agree, the American car lobby has been terrible for public transport development and green energy
Because they and many other modern car companies supported nazi genocide and fascism for money that I don’t think it’s a coincidence we’re seeing the same with Tesla. Time doesn’t change the past.
Unless it's the same people in charge of the company as it was in 1941 then it doesn't matter. Everyone knows that many German companies have a terrible past, but they've long since taken a clear stance against it. There is literally no correlation between these German car brands and Tesla. It matters what they do today (and possibly the recent past).
If you want to boycott things over the distant past you literally couldn't use anything.
Tesla deserves this because of Elon's current actions. If he steps or gets removed and Tesla continues to operate with a different philosophy there should be no issue with them in, say, 15 years.
I disagree on it mattering, and there are plenty of correlations including executives with histories across the auto industry. These companies aren’t as nimble or efficient as their branding suggests - they’ve operated with the same tactics for decades and the holocaust was not that long ago. Id argue the only thing that’s changed is corporate rebranding & propaganda because a new image was profitable, not because they magically became altruistic. Companies that escaped their problematic moments should not have escaped them - the fact that they did is itself problematic. ‘I’m sorry’ is not payment enough for profiteering off of genocide in my opinion. Well aware of how many companies are problematic, I just think we can do better.
Focusing on Elon for his actions right now is a great step and focus area tho!
So, if the Volkswagen Group car brands all dissolved and the people in charge created a new company that'd be just fine? Why would we boycott a company for what happened 80 years ago? We can just build a wall around Germany then.
What exactly is problematic? The past has happened and it cannot be changed; how you deal with it is the only question, and the Germans in particular have dealt with it admirably. It only matters what they do with they're given. Nothing is static, especially not a company which is just a reflection of their owners and employees.
Would it make you or anyone happier if we drove in Skodas rather than Volkswagens?
I agree with some of your points and the only thing I’d add is brands are symbols, and if a brand is left intact after an atrocity what does that say? I don’t think the brands should exist any more than keeping the same people in charge.
In that case I'd argue you can look at it from a different perspective: nothing bad is forever. Even brands - and people - directly complicit in genocide can change for the better, and before that; seemingly regular people can be driven to commit mad atrocities. This is a very important lesson today especially, as we are repeating history
I agree that public transport could be much better. But there are a lot of people that don't live in a city and no amount of public transport is going to reach everywhere. There still needs to be vehicles of some type. I wish more rural roads in this country had bike lanes
The difference between BMW and Mercedes, and Tesla right now is that BMW and Mercedes are not currently supporting a fascist. Germany went through decades of reform and reconciliation for its fascist choices. America, and particularly Tesla whose CEO is instigating and wholeheartedly supporting the early stages of the current political reshaping, is currently going one inch further into fascism every day.
I agree and it’s an important distinction but it’s also a big asterisk. Fascism is on the rise again in Germany (and many other places) call corporations have one value and it’s profit, they’ve proven over and over they don’t care about people. If fascism becomes profitable again what do you think they’ll do?
Also my comments are regarding auto corporations not Germany as a country.
If people knew what the Nazis were planning to do back then, they might have boycotted BMW and Mercedes too, strangling them in the crib. Americans know what Nazis are; they were literally our biggest enemy and our greatest military victory, and the vast majority of Americans oppose Nazis. I think the only hesitation seems to be that people either don't believe Elon actually is a Nazi, or that they think he's just "TrOlLiNg ThE LiBs!!!11".
That really sucks, and I don't think you are a Nazi... but you're driving a BMW in 1933. You're not going to get any sympathy from people on the right side of history.
Hell yeah, I’ve been wanting a model 3 for years. Glad politics will bring that dream to a reality 😀 lets go electric vehicles!!! One less gas guzzler on the road.
What are your thoughts on doing a Nazi salute when seeing a cybertruck? Is it okay because we are mocking them? Or is it just never okay to do a Nazi salute?
What happens if Tesla falls? America's charging station infrastructure is owned by Tesla. Looks like the whole EV push has been a complete failure. What about the environment and global warming, seems like people really don't care about any of that in comparison to settling political grievances. It is what it is.
That's the American way of doing things. Wild deregulation and dependency on billionaires, because freedom or some excuse.
In Europe, the EU mandated years ago CCS2 for all cars, tesla included, so the whole continent's (UK, CH, etc included) infrastructure is compatible with every car, just like gas stations. Tesla operates like 20% of the infrastructure so if they disappear it will be a minor nuisance, and only for the time other operators gobble up the locations. If power and permits are already in place, it's a question of a few weeks to install the transformers and charging points.
@[email protected]
@[email protected] Are you a Tesla owner who only charges at Telsa charging stations? Tesla doesn't even own the majority of charging stations in the US. They only recently started allowing non-Teslas to use their chargers. Where did you think all the other EVs were charging?
Tesla will be taken over by PE who will sell off the charging network. Once rebranded as ChargePoint or Electrify America, they will will no lobger be targeted by vandalism and arson. The cost of removing the toxic Tesla brand isn't trivial, but the locations and infrastructure have value. They won't just be turned off when there is profit to made.
https://evadoption.com/ev-charging-stations-statistics/us-charging-network-rankings/
There is no point in worrying about the environment without first fighting against facism.
Im a little unclear on your charge of fascism here. Could you list examples of the fascist events or occurances you have suffered?
If you want to be technical, US is a proto-fascist state (i.e. there is still a lot of room for things to get worse).
The 14 Characteristics of Fascism
Ah yes the "could you please list specific ways you've been harmed" that's definitely asked in good faith to further a productive discussion.
Sealion.
I've asked multiple people and never once has anyone given an example, or an experience, but this is the first time i was called a sealion.
Women are no longer able to get adequate medical care and my trans friends can no longer be their true selves. The family that runs the grocery store down the street is scared of anybody in a blue uniform. You're either willfully malicious or so uninformed that your opinion on it is useless.
That you pretend to care and to be objective is a joke. We can all see exactly what you are.
Trans people can live however they choose to and people have been fighting over abortion since the 1970s. I dont understand how these qualify as examples of fascism? I understand you do not agree with the abortion ruling but how does it support your claim of living under a fascist government?
Boo hoo, don't care. Hope they all lose their asses.
especially the assholes that slap "I bought it before we knew Elon was an ass" style stickers on their cars.
Musk has always been a miserable piece of shit. You just turned a blind eye to it because you wanted to hero worship a emotionally stunted perpetually 13 year old troglodyte, until you couldnt anymore.
So you've never done business with a company who's CEO is an asshole? Never bought gas, used Windows, googled something, gotten on Facebook?
I knew full well this guy was an asshole. So is pretty much every CEO in America. You can't opt out, you can only choose which asshole you want to do business with. The holier-than-thou bullshit because Musk is the asshole of the day helps no one. If you buy oil at all, you're funding an industry that has lobbied governments around the world to buy more oil for literal generations, all while knowing the harm it was causing and the people it was killing and would kill.
It's cool that you've picked the Nazi you hate over the ones that had the good sense to stay home, but it's childish at best to think that makes you a better person.
True to your username to just assume everyone who bought one turned a blind eye to him so they could have a hero to worship. Thats just a weird thing to say