Spyke
lemmy.world

Relatedly, Hisense also forces updates and disables use of the TV if you do not accept the update (via a full screen non-cancelable prompt).

I learned this the hard way after Hisense broke my TV via an update that I didn't want and then refused to fix it even after 6 months of escalations and emails.

249
infosec.pub

They’re not alone, either. I had to downgrade my Visio just to use the features that it shipped with. I’m sure this is illegal, but no one cares unless you’re rich.

154
NekoKonekoreply
lemmy.world

I outright told them it's illegal, since they are unilaterally altering the terms of any T&C agreements when we started using the TV and materially interfering with our ownership and use of the TV we purchased. They didn't care. I then sent it to our state attorney general and nothing happened.

125
rainwallreply
piefed.social

You can likely sue them in small claims court. Many states let you file for a couple hundred dollars and will give you 3x damages if you win.

The most likely outcome is they settle when the court date approaches or dont show and you win hy default.

71
lemmy.world

There was a guy in Texas who thought a big tobacco company would settle out without showing, but instead he got counter sued to the tune of millions. That man? Rusty Shackleford.

There's a good documentary about it.

17

I can neither confirm nor deny baked goods preferences without counsel present.

And if time really is a flat circle, then one of us should remember this conversation already.

I don’t.

Which means you’re early… or I’m late. 🤔

11
roofuskitreply
lemmy.world

I know they're different manufacturers, but TCL tried this shit and I just factory reset and never setup the Internet on it. I use an android TV box for the smarts.

64
NekoKonekoreply
lemmy.world

Unfortunately the firmware was the issue, not just OS software. So factory-resetting didn't help us. But yeah, that definitely radicalized me to the "never connect it to the internet" camp for future TVs.

46
gruereply
lemmy.world

Buying the TV and then not connecting it still rewards the bad behavior.

We have to boycott these fucks and lobby to get the behavior outlawed.

22
NekoKonekoreply
lemmy.world

I mean, that's great in theory. But the amount of manufacturers of non-smart TVs is tiny, and if you are interested in the best panels and display technology, refresh rates for gaming, etc (even removing affordability), it's very very hard to just boycott if you want to have a modern TV at all.

15
moonshadowreply
slrpnk.net

Getting the ad-subsidized tech without the ads sounds like a win to me

3
gruereply
lemmy.world

[Citation needed]

There is zero fucking evidence whatsoever that the alleged "savings" from the ad "subsidy" are getting passed to the consumer.

2
moonshadowreply
slrpnk.net

Automatic litterboxes, fancy toothbrushes, vidya consoles, air purifiers are all examples of physical items often sold at a loss in anticipation of a future revenue stream off the top of my head. Ad specific, lower end smartphones are cheap to free because the money comes from selling your data (by way of tracking apps the manufacturer is paid to include). That their motives aren't altruistic kinda goes without saying. I would be very surprised if televisions were excluded from this process, and need a new explanation for walmart's sub-$50 ad-choked tv selection

1

I wasn't asking for a citation that their methods aren't altruistic; I was asking for a citation that they aren't enshittifying the product with ads or subscriptions or whatever and then gouging you for full price anyway.

1
lemmy.ca

You are paying for features you don't use (such as Internet access). That's not a win.

-2
applebuschreply
lemmy.blahaj.zone

They're saying the company may be selling the device for less than the cost to produce it expecting the low price to draw in consumers while their predatory ads rake in much more money, so buying it and never connecting it means they took a loss. I'm skeptical that companies would do that these days. More likely they overcharge for the physical hardware AND have predatory ad software, you know to maximize shareholder value.

15

Even if that were true, you're still paying more than you would be for a "dumb" TV that doesn't have those features. So everybody loses but the company selling the hardware still sees a sale. They lose a lot more if they pay the cost to produce and then never sell the device.

-6
lemmy.world

You're implying there is an option other than not owning a TV. Please send us specifics so we can join you.

2
gruereply
lemmy.world

You used to be able to still buy 'dumb' TVs from Sceptre up until a year or so ago, but even they've stopped selling them now. (I'm kicking myself for not buying one when I had the chance...)

But the important part of my comment was this:

and lobby to get the behavior outlawed.

2

It's happening, but do you really believe a bunch of nonprofit low income "woke" "DEI" loving hippies are going to lobby more effectively than billion dollar corporations - er, sorry, PEOPLE - will lobby? These people literally bankroll candidates for office to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars and have hundreds of lawyers to pick apart any resistance.

Sure, lobby. Just understand we are just continuing the fight on principle, not because it will have any impact.

We can't give up, but we aren't going to win, short of a literal uprising and even then it's probably just going to remove the lipstick from this political pig, and the pretense of "for the people" will fall away.

1
lemmy.world

I got a TCL last year and it wouldn't let me use the TV until I set up the internet. After 4 factory resets I figured out how to put it in store demo mode, and plugged in a separate streaming device that connects to the internet. Now I realize I could have connected the TV to the internet and then blocked it at the network level.

32
Peffsereply
lemmy.world

If you are using a network level block, make sure it's a black hole and not just a DNS filter. I tried a DNS filter with a Roku and found that they bypass it with hardcoded values, even when the DNS server was statically assigned and DHCP assigned.

18

Wait till they start paying netflix to relay data for them :)

5
piefed.social

What you mean by black hole and filter? I blocked a bunch of tcl domains on my pihole and made my router drop everything in port 53 coming from every other device that wasn't pihole. It seems to have worked for now.. Is that a good solution?

3
lemmy.world

Pi-hole blocks the name resolution. TV wants to go to Hisense.com, asks your Pi-hole where that site is. Your Pi-hole sees that Hisense is on a block list, so it says back to your TV "sorry, no idea how to get to that site, it must be offline."

If the manufacturer wants to get around this, they program a public DNS in, like 8.8.8.8, or they hardcode the static IP for their website into the TV. Now when it wants to go to Hisense, it never has to ask your Pi-Hole where that site is, and it doesn't get blocked. Heck, it probably won't even show up on your Pi-hole's logs.

If you black hole the site, then any traffic going out there gets dropped, and the hard-coded addresses on the TV don't matter for shit.

16

Your Pi-hole can only block the things that query DNS. Try this, ping a website you don't normally go to, and you should see that show up in Pihole log. Next, ping an IP, I usually pick on 8.8.8.8, and see if that shows up in your Pi-hole's logs. I'm fairly confident it won't.

2

Best I can do is Google it and read it to you. I'm a little knowledgeable about how a pihole works since I have my Net+, and I've set up a few Pi-hole's (or the same one a few times tbh), but I'm definitely not a networking expert.

1

No, it's not robust. It may work for your TV, but it can be worked around.

DNS is like a phone directory for Internet: it translates domain name to IP addresses. If you block the DNS (what pihole does), it blocks the directory access. But if the IP address of the servers are hard-coded in the firmware, the TV does not need a DNS, it can reach the server directly.

To trick the TV, you need to restrict the IPs it can reach. It might be delicate: it probably tries to ping some comme IPs to check it's connected, then call the brand's server for ads/updates/etc.

3
FG_3479reply
lemmy.world

Their Google TV models have a basic mode which lets you use it without internet with no bypassing.

14

As do the Roku TCL models. I currently have mine disconnected and plan to keep it that way.

5

Unfortunately manufacturers are starting to get wise to this as well. I recently bought a new Vizio smart TV with no intentions of connecting it to the internet and during the initial setup it kept very persistently insisting that it needed to be connected and after setup it constantly bitches at me that it's not connected.

9

My mom has a Hisense TV (because my parents invariably buy the very cheapest they can. They'd get a B&W if they could), and it just started something new - on start up, it now shows a static page of color wash, then you choose a channel. It doesn't start on the same channel you turned off last night. Must be a new update came through. She let it sit on the screensaver all day, because it never occurred to her to try to change the channel.

Not a big deal, but weird, and NOBODY asked for this.

17
leojreply
piefed.zip

Was gonna say, LG does the same thing.

So far my only TV that hasn't forced things in an absurd way has been my Sony... Guess what Sony just did? (Sold their Bravia TV line to TCL...)

13
lemmy.ca

I’ve never connected my LG TVs to the internet and they work pretty well.

I hear you can jailbreak them, which is appealing to me.

7
njordomirreply
lemmy.world

Are people loading AOSP on there or something? I'm tired of the telemetry and ads LG built in, but my blocklists have seemed to block one of my LG TVs from working. I have a disabled adult in my home and I think Kodi might be too complex for them.

2

Nothing like Android no. You get the ability to install apps not available in the webOS store, homebrew basically. This is useful for running hyperion (open source project) for driving your own LEDs behind the TV for ambiance. I haven't peeked in that scene in a year or two but last time I did, the latest TV's or latest updated TV's were not easily hackable.

2

The person I was talking to just said they had jailbroken WebOS (LG runs webOS not android) and could do whatever.

Mine's never connected to the internet before, so I don't really feel any need to jailbreak it. Though apparently you can ssh in and do stuff, and that sounds kinda cool.

2

No shit? I might have to try that, only problem is my spouse will kill me if I break it... (primary TV)....

2
lemmy.world

Sony offloaded manufacturing to TLC. They made a joint venture and TLC gets to manufacture and distribute them, Sony does development. Sony still has control. What we may see in the future is build quality decline. I doubt it's gonna effect the software much.

2

that is comforting to hear, I had not heard any further details about the deal. Curious how it turns out for everyone.

1

Mine definitely does, disables applications and will lock the screen on update demand if you go long enough. At the bottom of the tv says it LG.

4
NekoKonekoreply
lemmy.world

Would have loved to. It was just over one year (right after the warranty ended as well), though.

9
frongtreply
lemmy.zip

Is that your card issuer's policy? I've done a chargeback past a year.

6

I went through something similar and am trying to recall, I think I did look and it was past the time period. I should have tried. It's +2 years now for me.

Edit: Words.

4

Hisense are also selling their TVs with different specs on different markets which is really annoying. In the United States you get Google TV but in Europe you get the awful Vidaa OS where you can't install Google Play Store. And the big national TV streaming apps are missing in their own app store where I live.

I talked to a retail seller and he said that they ultimately had to stop selling them because they got so many complaints and returns. Maybe it's a licensing issue or something but it's just such a braindead decision that is damaging the brand.

8
amorpheusreply
lemmy.world

My Hisense got worse in some ways after an update, support provided a file to get the previous firmware back and told me to disable updates. ¯\(ツ)

2

Funny story, they actually did this to me before this all happened, and I was on a "I'm never going to update again" beta firmware that they gave me a link to, when the forced-update happened that broke my wifi. I didn't disable any ADB-level processes, and I don't think the system let me disable updates.

3
lemmy.world

If anyone remembers the cyberpunk 80s TV show Max Headroom, then they know that TV was everywhere all the time in that universe. There was a scene in one episode where the police enter a suspect’s home and discover that she had an off switch on her TV. The cops react in shock to the fact, and one of them says “She’ll get twenty years for that.”

This universe also had "blipverts" which were a type of ad (advert..advertisement) that directly accessed your brain's motivation to get you to buy something. The only problem was that blipverts also had a high chance of killing the people that watched it.

This was a TV show from almost 40 years ago now and it looks like these would be the things that are coming in the next few years from now.

45
FauxLivingreply
lemmy.world

Sci-Fi dystopia/Cyberpunk has called a lot of things correctly.

16

The idea is even older. Orwell described telescreens - mandatory television with no off switch 77 years ago.

4
JcbAzPxreply
lemmy.world

The blipverts were also several hours of ads in less than a second, which was the part that could kill you.

3

I loved in the story of that episode that the TV execs learned that blipverts could kill their audience, and briefly switched back to adverts, but when sales fell they went back to blipverts knowing the danger because it was more profitable. The writers of that show nailed a corporate dystopian future.

Our own hope was our protagonist Edison Carter "live and direct from Network 23"...who was also part of the giant corporate machine.

4
a4ng3lreply
lemmy.world

As a 80s kid I don’t recall being hyped. If anything all sci-fi books were warnings for us. Younger generations embraced the black mirror shit thought.

27
ChicoSuavereply
lemmy.world

Somewhere between Snow Crash and Hackers it became the dream instead of the nightmare.

5

True for hackers… Somehow it started my career… but snow crash feels a bit like Uber-gig which isn’t what I would look forward to.

3

Except a lot less fun. That one at least had cool lights, cool buildings, and flying cars. We got rotting infrastructure and Teslas.

7
lemmy.world

I actually commented on that somewhere. Cyberpunk is a good example of authors warning us of dystopian possibilities, not glorifying them.

2

We were hyped over the tech and the "punk" aspect. That's the rebellion against the dystopia, not embrace of it.

1

I no longer get excited about new tech. For the most part, I feel like we peaked about 10 years ago. Medical advances are the outlier and represent real benefit, but consumer electronics are getting enshittified.

4
Vakbrainreply
lemmy.dbzer0.com

Until sept 2026...

Do you really think Google will approve those APKs once they have fully lockdown android (that includes Google TV)?

That's why this push from google to kill the APK installation without their blessing infuriates me!

https://keepandroidopen.org/

15
rumbareply
lemmy.zip

yeah, we'll be working on grapheneOS tv boxes in a years time.

4
rumbareply
lemmy.zip

HDMI + A presentation mouse and bluetooth keyboard on an old Pixel?

1
lemmy.world

A totally valid option I had not considered. Imo, the solution needs to be controlled by a standard remote. I tried for a couple years to get my family to use a media pc that used a media keyboard and no one would touch it. I turned it into a server and streamed to emby and now they will use it but only after I showed them it works even when the internet is down.

1

I TOTALLY feel you. I've wanted a good media remote for ages. seems like a project to repurpose a bluetooth remote to control a phone would be medium low difficulty

2

I basically left it vanilla after switching the launcher and borking the updates. We use emby for our home streaming but I am always looking for extra functionality

2

I don’t have an Android tv but if that day ever comes, very glad options like these exist.

10
Janxreply
piefed.social

That's great, but people who don't already own one shouldn't support this garbage company.

7

No doubt. The market is shriveling up for people who want a new tv that isn't garbo. Outside of commercial displays which are like 3-4x as expensive and have lower image quality, I don't know of anyone making dumb tvs in a 55" plus size. Yes, you can opt not to hook them up to the internet but in a house with non-tech people, its a huge hassle to get them to want to use anything other than the built in apps. Even diy set top boxes running on a pi or shield are not as user friendly for kids or grandparents.

3

The non-Android Linux OS Hisense and Toshiba ship their TVs with in most of the world.

1
lemmy.ca

Okay, so strike Hisense products from the list of brand I'll ever buy from

78
gruereply
lemmy.world

This is why, for years, I've been trying to point out that "if you don't like it, just don't buy it" isn't good enough. Boycotts aren't enough; we have to force the law to change to prohibit the abusive corporate behavior.

45

I agree 100%. Nothing we do is good enough because it's a game of cat and mouse. They do something, people react. They do something else, they react.

Right now I own a Hisense because it's 75" and cost me $300. It has a decent enough picture and sound. Works for all of my uses.

It has never seen the internet nor will it. I use my 6 year old shield for apps, mostly of which is my own content.

In case they decide to use any subsidiary or or partner tech company to daisy chain internet (I don't put it past any of these guys) I have a blacklist on my firewall that catches most stuff trying to go out.

I have done everything I can, but it won't be enough at some point.

They won't stop until laws pass that stop them (actually stop them and not slap on the wrist).

2
Phoenixzreply
lemmy.ca

Yeah

It's going to get really interesting to find a new TV once I want to buy one.

A y brands left that won't fuck me over with ads and what not?

2

You could try the ones storefronts use as displays. A bit pricey, but they have to be as dumb as possible for what they usually do.

1
lemmy.world

changing the TV's DNS servers or disconnecting it from the internet entirely.

Chiming in as an Australian budget VIDAA owner.

I spotted that this TV attempts to query 8.8.8.8, regardless of your DNS settings. I implemented a port 53 (DNS) redirect so those queries get resolved by my local server.

I also figured out which servers are serving up ads/tracking. I fired an email to Pete and got them added to his list. You're welcome. I'm guessing a pi-hole would work with it.

https://pgl.yoyo.org/adservers/serverlist.php

I didn't install the latest update, and probably never will. My TV contacts the unruly ACR servers, but the later firmware probably contacts nexxen.

78

People like you help to make the internet a better place — which matters a lot to me, because one of my most desperately held beliefs is that it is possible to take the hopefulness of the early internet and combine it with the wisdom of the last few decades to produce a more robust kind of hope

19

attempts to query 8.8.8.8, regardless of your DNS settings.

Streaming box / stream app makers have been working around local DNS for a long time. Sometimes of course they're assholes that want to do shitty things and do this to make interdiction harder. But sometimes there are legitimate reasons. Ones I remember... users who don't really understand what they're doing can be overly aggressive with blocking and block things that are necessary for a particular service (causing support problems). Sometimes the ISPs DNS servers have shit performance, and using a well known commercial provider like cloudflare or google can improve performance at scale. It's not always evil.

8
lemmy.world

I fear the day these fucks figure out DOH or something. Not sure there's any way to suppress or intercept that, short of just blocking all external traffic to the TV.

6
pHr34kYreply
lemmy.world

You need plain DNS to resolve the DoH server. Just block that.

1
cley_fayereply
lemmy.world

Setting up DoH, I already provide the expected name AND an IP. No need for plain DNS at any step. There's no reason a corporate TV can't do that either.

1

Thank you for this. I will check later today on my own tv to see what its pulling in the background.

4
lemmy.world

IF YOU BUY ANY TV, DO NOT CONNECT IT TO THE INTERNET.

Televisions were never meant to be smart devices. There's no reason your screen should have software of its own. That would be like your face having a mind of its own.

Ummm,

75
Ajenreply
sh.itjust.works

Cell modems are getting cheaper and cheaper, it's only a matter of time before cheap smart TVs will flood the market with always-on telemetry and intrusive personalized ads.

25
jmfreply
lemmy.dbzer0.com

Like the other comment said, if you drive a car made after 2014, don't bother. You drive a rolling tracking beacon regardless of what you do with your smart devices...

5
reddthat.com

Tracking/privacy and ads are related, but separate issues. Cars might track where you are going, but they aren't showing ads (yet).

2

Look up Stellantis pop up ads, then look how many brands Stellantis owns... Truly dystopian.

1
Atlas_reply
lemmy.world

That sounds like a great reason to return it and buy used lol

5

Until a few years later when all the used TVs have cell modems. The same thing is already happening in the used car market, it's getting harder and harder to find a reliable vehicle that doesn't have a cell modem and a long T&C that let's them spy on you.

14

I haven't experience this myself but I've read that some newer TV's are forcing you to connect to the internet before you can do anything else.

12

Not to mention it seems like the apps on a smart tv get ignored when it comes to updates.

6

The apps available on the TV may work when it’s new but quickly become nonfunctional because of a lack of updates. Best to use something else to stream, hopefully something more trustworthy.

4

Applies anything too "smart" for its own good. Too many cases of those having obvious backdoors like trying to reverse ssh home, not to mention stupidest vulnerabilities imaginable nobody fixes

1

I got a Hisense tv in November and never connected it to the internet. Now I am extremely pleased that I never connected it.

47

I have a Hisense that I bought late last year and have never connected it to the internet (I stream everything through my PS5) and boyhowdy does that TV take every chance it gets to let me know I'm not connected lol

43
lemmy.world

This. Have played with similar devices in the past and I was surprised how many of these devices are running standard Linux kernel with some custom engineered distros. Projects like Buildroot, OpenWRT, Busybox and a few others are what the vendors use to roll their own builds.

A few of them agressively lock down the bootloaders in an attempt to (try to) prevent people from owning the device they've paid retail price for. Many don't really bother. The good news is, that such measures are relatively easy for experts to circumvent and break down. This, of course, is not cheap, but needs to happen only once, often for more than a single model. Some kind of bounty-based system could provide incentive and financing for such efforts.

6
KairuBytereply
lemmy.dbzer0.com

I believe some custom firmware for TVs exist, the issue is that they are relatively new pieces of tech, while routers have existed for a comparatively long time.

2

Based on the limited experience with a few devices (LG), the SoC in TVs are not new pieces of tech. At all. They seem old and underpowered crap. Similar to DVB-T sticks available for the price of 2 pizzas and a pack of gum on AliExpress.

1
festusreply
lemmy.ca

I can imagine future TVs refusing to work without an always-on internet connection.

36

... and exactly 2 weeks later modders will have figured out how to get their hands on the yummy free unlimited data inside it.

13

Getting outdated ads crammed down your throat for companies or products that no longer exist is a special kind of trolling.

3
Wispy2891reply
lemmy.world

I saw an unboxing for a TV for a Chinese market and it refused to start until the owner paired it with a Chinese phone otp for "age verification" 😉

13

It's going right back to the shop, if that's the case. Not accepting an HDMI input means it's not fit for purpose.

12

How hard is it for companies to just make a good screen screen with the necessary ports any nothing else.

We are all losing our minds.

31

I've got a Sony and even it's showing home screen ads - normally it's just "suggestions" for shows on streaming services I don't have, but the occasional car ad also comes through. I have a theory that the reason Sony are getting out of the TV business is that they don't want to develop their own TV OS and they're sick of their customers complaining about the ads in Google's OS.

I'm about to get a 2nd one and I'm seriously considering a computer monitor hooked up to a mini PC running XBMC or something.

11
lemmy.world

Personally, I use computer monitors. They're cheap enough. 32 inch ultra wide. 36 inch. They're only getting larger and cheaper.

As for remote control, I hook it up to the computer and use unified remote.

10
gruereply
lemmy.world

At this point I consume most media literally on my computer or my phone, but I still want there to be a good solution for a big living room TV (50"+ range). I have yet to see any reasonable 'computer monitor' option for that.

The other problem with using a monitor as a TV, BTW, is that they often don't have built-in speakers.

10

A projector might be an option, but they have their own problems, like with the contrast not being great.

3
gruereply
lemmy.world

I used to recommend Sceptre, but even they appear to have stopped making dumb TVs now too.

4

I haven’t had a Tv in years but not because I wanna be cool or some shit but I don’t want to have one of these intrusive machines in the middle of my house. I already have enough of those.

Edit: NOT because 🫣

0

The easy answer is to use commercial displays. They are more expensive and may not have the latest tech BUT they last longer and don't do the spyware shenanigans.

2

I've had my LG for like six years, no problem. I even connected it to the internet.

1
lemmy.world

I had a 65" Hisense TV for just over a year, and a firmware update bricked it. It was stone dead, and Hisense wouldn't even try to repair it. So I spent a little extra money and got a Samsung instead. And once it was set up, I turned off its wifi...just in case.

Hisense can eat a bag o' dicks.

27
ShankShillreply
sh.itjust.works

My first 4K TV was a Samsung. The last update broke eARC making the Samsung home theater in a box thing I had much more inconvenient.

My 2nd (free in a raffle) Samsung 4K TV connected to my WiFi without a password when a guest in the house casted a video to it despite on setup refusing to consent to any web things due to privacy concerns. Kinda interesting and concerning.

10

I blocked the TVs MAC address on my router after a factory reset.

It completely ignored my privacy preferences just because someone pressed "cast" on their phone.

1
TheFinnreply
discuss.tchncs.de

I haven't bought a TV in a decade. What kind of setup is required? Why would it need internet access for that?

3

I let my Vizio TV connect for firmware updates as it has an issue that they've improved but I immediately turn off wifi and wipe the connection details right after.

1

I don't think internet was required for setup, but in each case I did want to get the latest firmware in case there were fixes to the UI or whatever. But I never use the built-in apps or anything, I have a media box for that stuff.

1
lemmy.ml

Anybody have un-enshittified 4k tv recommendations?

Mainly want good picture quality for movies + high refresh rate for games.

25
hydrashokreply
sh.itjust.works

The biggest thing you can do is just never connect it to the internet. I even block the MAC addresses so ever if someone tried to connect it, it won’t. Then use an external box like a Roku, PC, or AppleTV to connect to your content.

And, if any TV requires an internet connection to set it up, immediately return it.

39

Exactly this.

"Smart" TVs never go online, never connect to anything but power and an HDMI, and quite frankly..if it didnt risk causing warranty headaches, I'd open teh fucker up and unplug its wifi antenna too.

Always use an old PC/Laptop/Raspberry Pi/whatever to get them online/on youtube/streaming/etc. You have full control over those devices, and can update them as desired and modify them at a whim.

Fuckin hate smart TVs. a bunch of fucking spyware and adware that just makes the device run hotter and die sooner.

17

We're gonna need this "requires Internet connection" bit to be in reviews.

10
lemmy.world

LG is solid as long as you don’t agree to the terms. I get no ads but I only use the internet on it to update the firmware. Samsung is more annoying with their ads.

9
villainyreply
lemmy.world

I only use the internet on it to update the firmware.

You don't even need to do that. I download firmware updates from the LG website, throw it on a USB drive, and plug that into the TV. Actually important firmware updates are so rare that I'm fine with the extra effort required.

17

i dont have an LG, but I've only had to firmware update 1 TV in like.. the past 13 years, and that was because it had a horrible issue with the image vertically splitting in half and green corruption across the bottom. Which makes you think hardware failure, but it wasnt, the firmware update 100% fixed it for the rest of its life.

So unless you are facing a major, catastrophic issue like that, I'd say fuck updates.

16
rumbareply
lemmy.zip

yeah, i don't have any desire to update my TV as long as I can plug in HDMI and get a picture and sound

4

Exactly. If it's displaying the line-in correctly, I don't see what a firmware update would bring to the table.

It's a display. Once it's achieved being able to act like that, then you should be done for as long as the hardware lasts.

4
frongtreply
lemmy.zip

I bought an LG a little while back. Looks good, no need to connect it to the Internet, you can turn on and off all the features you do or don't want.

5
lemmy.ml

Hell yeah. I was considering a C5, but saw people online saying ads are present on LG.

I use shield anyway, but I will probably just follow your advice and set default input to the shield

1

There are ads, but if you're willing to slog through the settings you can get rid of them. I just used a pihole LG blocklist. I really enjoy using the magic mouse on the screen and I'm finding it hard to give up.

2
frongtreply
lemmy.zip

Mine doesn't have ads. But like I said, I've never connected it to the Internet, so I don't know if it would start showing them if I did. I just use a Chromecast, my Switch, or an antenna.

1

I have one connected to the internet due to WAF, but I never signed into an LG account on it. As a result, the "home" page just shows something about signing in "for the full experience" rather than any ads.

2
rumbareply
lemmy.zip

Plasma burn-in is scary for games.

3

Yeah I'm still using the last of the good Panasonic VT50 models. It's still going strong with a great picture. We got it in 2009. It's early smart features were retired long ago.

These articles make me shudder what I might replace it with

2
leminal.space

I have one in my room. It gets pretty hot with it and my PS3 running, and I live in Minnesota and sleep in the basement

2

Lol yeah I suppose. Funny story how I got my PS3, I was on ebay and there was a "broken" one listed on ebay for a dollar. The seller said the blu-ray drive wasn't working and replacing it didn't help. That was a good day to be me, I tell ya

2

LG OLEDs are still great. Mine is not connected to the internet and use an external media box (AppleTV). It can be set to turn on to the last used HDMI input instead of the Home Screen. I never see the LG OS.

2
dellhiverreply
sh.itjust.works

Well what about a PC monitor? You can get u to like 43" and beyond. Obviously they are great for gaming as well.

The other very impractical mention - after TVs starting adding ads, cameras and microphones, I switched to a 2nd hand projector. Most have no smart features.

All you need is a white or off- white wall to protect on to. And the ability to block some light coming into the room.

Downsides:

  • They can be bulky and noisy. Particularly the 4k ones
  • might need separate speakers
  • Not as low latency as a tv but models do come with VRR
  • bulbs do get darker from prolonged use (and aren't always cheap to replace)
  • you might need separate speakers
  • and there are the trailing cables
  • And you'll never get the inky blacks of oleds. But for picture size and immersion for the cost, they are basically unbeatable.

Some can project from a coffee table.

For tv series and YouTube like content, I use a laptop. Then for big movies, I use the projector and 5.1 sound system (mostly 2nd hand as well.)

2
lemmy.world

projectors are just not a practical recommendation for most people. unless you take pretty drastic measures to set up your room like a proper theater, the picture quality will be drastically worse than an average TV.

8

A Google TV. That have a "Basic TV" mode which lets you use it without internet.

1

There are still non-"smart" monitors (as opposed to tvs), get one while you can. I would but too poor. My world's full of 1080p trickle down :p

1
lemmy.world

I bought my last TV about 7 years ago. I got a "small" 38" TV. As I was checking out, the cashier asked me if I'd rather upgrade to a larger model from the same brand with smart features for 10 dollars less. I flat out told him 'no' and that was probably the best decision I made that year.

24
sh.itjust.works

If you don't connect a smart TV to the internet, it's functionally the same as a dumb TV.

11
SkaveRatreply
discuss.tchncs.de

Sadly more and more TV's will now require you to connect to the Internet, even when you just use HDMI

17

Well that's just a day one return then and an openbox discount for the next person

20

My new LG didn't require it, but the settings menu and 'home' screen nag about lack of connectivity.

"Why did you buy a smart TV if you didn't want the smart features" brother, it was the best tv in that price range and few true dumb ones exist in that range. IMO the smart features should be considered optional but I guess these companies don't agree

7

Ive had LG, Vizio, TCL, and Samsung TVs (still have all but Vizio) and haven't ran into one that requires internet yet, not to say that some manufacturers haven't/wouldn't do this at some point.

7
SkunkWorkzreply
lemmy.world

Wait for how long? HDMI devices need to handshake with the TV so there is always a delay unfortunately. It’s not just a good ol’ video signal anymore.

2

The delay in a monitor may be milliseconds to a couple of seconds

2

I bought mine a few years ago, never connected to the internet, never had a problem.

Now I'm definitely never connecting it.

24
ragebuttreply
lemmy.dbzer0.com

It’s true that things are worse on a cheap tv but even if you buy a $5000+ flagship model it will still have advertising baked into the os

30
lemmy.ca

Most of the "commercial" TVs, the ones intended for businesses, don't have this. They also don't have streaming services and whatnot not built in. They're just a display with a few inputs, and maybe a tuner.

5
ragebuttreply
lemmy.dbzer0.com

that’s true but they’re more expensive, sometimes prohibitively so. If you want an oled panel they’re basically unfeasible, especially if you want a larger panel >55”

9

Yeah. I think none of us really understands how valuable all our data really is.

1
lemmy.world

Damn. Just bought a Hisense fridge last week. I hope I won't have to watch an ad before it lets me get the mayo.

23
moonshadowreply
slrpnk.net

Sending pics of your moldy leftovers to your crush if you don't pay up

2

Subscribe in 5 minutes or we'll show your Facebook friends how much of a pig you are!

1
Mwa
thelemmy.club

i don't know why i didn't expect hisense to do it.

22
T156reply
lemmy.world

Would it not make sense for them to? Since they make budget televisions, they have to subsidise the cost somehow.

Either that, or because they're so budget, you'd expect them to cheap out on the electronics and not bother with anything that sophisticated compared to a bare-minimum chip.

2

From the article it appears to be some technical experiment in Spain they were too disorganised or lazy to remove from the ROM.

2

Right, i have a hisense fridge i bought 12 years ago after my second hand fridge broke, destroying all my food. I had saved up enough money to go away for the weekend but got home from work to the broken one. Had cancel my trip and use the money to buy the fridge thinking it won't last long.

That fridge now sits outside with drinks in it and its never missed a beat.

I also have a deep freezer of theirs I've had for 8 years with no issues apart from having to replace the door seal.

1

I'm feeling a lot less crazy having my strict rule on AV equipment:
It should work out the box without connecting to the internet, and it shouldn't be connected without a damned good reason.
To the point that I insisted on setting up the PS5 and playing a game on it before connecting, just to be sure.

18

"Brand denies wrongdoing"

Of course. "Use is consent to the user agreement."

They could get you to swear eternal fealty to Lord Xenu, Alien God of the Universe in the user agreement that you consent to by connecting the TV to the internet.

17

i wish people were less tolerating about this shit. most likely users of those tvs will grumble a little at first and then just accept and eventually disparage anyone for speaking against it.

people should get way more angry about this publicly.

just think about how things used to be 50 or 100 years ago. Having a huge scandal could actually end someones career or put down a company. Now there is nothing shitty people and companies can't do because everyone is so apathetic they wouldnt care if they themselves are the victim.

13

Fuck that. heh.

I use a TV for my computer monitor and it's perfect. I do not use any of the TV features. And it pisses me off when something happens to lose my signal and it switches over into TV mode because it autoplays some free channel that spouts fascist nonsense. I have to poke around for the remote (which is always around but never close because I only need it every month or few months) so I can cut that shit off as soon as possible. heh

Any video I need to watch happens via my computer, thanks, where I'm in control.

13
lemmy.world

I don't have this issue with my higher end hi sense, but the article states it's for the lower end models. So this proves that companies are lowering the costs of TV's and offsetting it by selling your data and forcing you to watch ads they get paid for.

Mine is connected to the internet and no issues. If they ever do this to my TV, internet is off and i'm buying a shield pro.

11
lemmy.world

Why wait? Streaming services are only getting worse, and we can only really fight back one way. Yo ho!

5

Oh i don't support any streaming service, never have. But my plex server app on my smart tv is my go to. I've had an eye patch since Napster.

2

"I didn't do anything wrong", says man who doesn't understand the concept of consent or ownership.

11
Echolynxreply
lemmy.zip

Genuine question, is there a downside to a HTPC?

2

I mean... good luck finding a 65 inch PC monitor.

That does seem like a bit of a downside.

10

Holy shit, glad I put my hisense behind a pihole blocking all domain lookups and never updated it

10
lemmy.zip

Ohh it's not wrongdoing and when we refuse to buy anything from them, they're getting what they gave.

10
lemmy.world

I reminds me I should start writing my clickbait "(Millennials/GenZ/GenA or whatever) are killing TV manufactureres" article

6

I'm genX, but now that you mention it, My kids refuse to watch anything not on a tablet or phone, so there's that...

2
lemmy.world

"the ads help us make more money above and beyond all the apps who've paid us to pre-load their shit on our product"

12

It's not shit, is customer oriented consumer experience. Or the other way around, not sur anymore.

2

I'm never buying another TV again. I got a 48" OLED computer monitor that is now my TV. And I don't have to use that HDMI garbage.

9

I have never connected a TV to the Internet. I do have a smart TV but I just use it for my computer.

9

That’s one reason why I never connected mine to the internet.

7

I find myself wondering just how complicated TVS could actually be before it's no longer possible to hijack the display signal that's fed to the display

Unlike with cars, TVS seem simple enough that a sufficiently motivated novice could modify a cheap TV to circumvent these bullshit features. If they ever started requiring internet connections to start or use these, i think enough people would be bothered by it that there would probably be a secondary market of modified hardware

As with most enshitifications, the question will ultimately be one of complacency of the average consumer.

7

The basic thing is to get some product that YOU control and never allow the TV to be connected to the internet.

4
lemmy.world

Not trying to be a Sony Bravia shill but I have two Sony Bravia XBR (X950G and X900H) TVs. Neither of these has ever attempted to show me an advertisement. They aren't the newest versions nor the most expensive. I don't include YT ads since those are YT generated.

7

Sony pissed me off a few years back. Day one: wanna share data with us? No. Year later: data? No. Year 3. Your tv will no longer accept internet connections unless you agree to share your data. Ok, fuck. Year 4. 30% apps no longer work due to system requirements. You - bastards. I just used a firestick in it until it died on year 6. Which also sucks since it was $3000 in 2017.

6
lemmy.world

Get 'em while that last:

“In a major industry shift announced in early 2026, Sony is entering a strategic partnership where TCL will take a 51% stake in its home entertainment division, including Bravia TVs, with a new joint venture expected to be fully operational by April 2027”

It’s the end of an era for the Sony Bravia.

6

From what I read earlier beyond the single line you quoted, this seems to be for the panels and not the processors/boards.

2

This is misleading.

TCL will only be manufacturing the panel. Sony will continue to perform integration.

2

You might like to learn about Smart Tube. It's a front end for YT on Android TV, but it cuts the ads and sponsors. You have to download the APK though and load it that way (I refuse to say side load. side loading implies perhaps you're not supposed to do it. I paid $1K for this tv. I'm going to do what i fuckin want to, not what google tells me I'm allowed to do), because you sure as shit know that google wouldn't allow that app on the play store. I've been using it for a year or two, and i have yet to see an ad.

2

This is why NONE of my monitors ever go online. Ever. I did it once for testing back in 2012, and even then the experience was shit.

6

Just one of many reasons I haven't bought a TV or watched TV in over 15 years. If there is a series I want to watch I will either get the blurays or put on my fancy hat and pull out the rum.

5

Why do I still have a 32" TV? Because that's the largest size that's still readily available as an ordinary, cheap, flat dumb panel with a tuner. (Well, that and I don't especially need a larger one.)

5

Im still using an LG tv from 2007, and you could be too if you were my friend :^) I have jurassic park on bluray and i make pretty good popcorn

5

Bought a new TV and this is precisely the reason why it will never be connected to the Internet. I miss out on the built-in AirPlay which is annoying but I'll live.

5

Fucking Hell? Just allowed it to update an hourago and already had a bad feeling and now I am reading this?

4

So far, I haven't seen any of this with my Hisense TV. I have a Pihole but I believe smart TV's, at least this brand, has a hard-coded dns so it can dial home without going through my default dns.

3

Or, the PiHole can spoof whatever hardcoded IP. Sooo... Things change with DNSSec, but chances are they are not bothering with that in embedded devices.

Anyway, learned something new today; note to self: fron now on, always make sure that a TV works off-line before buying.

4

whats funny is people could not give away even lcds a few years ago. charities would not take them. my family knew I would though if they worked still.

1

All the TVs nowadays are pretty obnoxious with their bars staying up for a few seconds too long between turning them on and switching to the source. I suppose that might be the price we pay when we get a 75" for under $500. My samsung TV forced me to accept an update I didn't ask for and approve the changed "terms of service" as if I read that. I could have given them rights to my firstborn for all I know.

3

I took the money I was going to spend on a TV and bought a 50 inch on facebook market place. Then, I got a last-gen gaming PC. Is it tedious? yes, but I can play video games and watch whatever I want without getting spied on so its a fucking win. *ads from changing the inputs and channels on your own device?" fuck you. I hope this tv lasts the next two decades.

2
fedia.io

How long before folks start building their own TVs?

2