Europe is not as different from the US as it likes to pretend, especially politically.
Racism is not a unique or exceptionally American phenomenon, and the things I've heard from otherwise progressive Europeans can fucking curdle milk equal or in excess to what people in my ultra-rural ultra-conservative home region of the US can say.
I've had good friends who were Europeans studying here, and they can definitely be very insensitive and racist. What makes the two flavors of racism different to me is American racism is typically very confrontational, tribalistic. White man calling a black man a slur, and there's something cavalier about it, maybe even humorous on the part of the racist.
Europeans have a much more "it is the way it is" attitude. I've heard friends talk very disparagingly about interracial couples, or blacks in general, and the attitude is less "hate for hate's sake" but instead "it is the wrong way to be and my way is correct". Fascinatingly, when you point out the bigotry, my friends have typically refused to accept their bias (at best), and will deny they're racist.
Making sure I'm reading this right...I know a guy who claims he isn't sexist but that it is OK to pay women less because they aren't as good at some things as men. So in his mind, it isn't sexist to pay women less or even claim they should be paid less - even though it is.
The easy way to understand and remember is that "female" is an adjective the vast majority of the time, and it's usually misogynists and incels using it as a noun.
I think mysoginists just have a lot of spotlight on them, or are vocal. I hadn't been aware of "female" being used as a slur before it was pointed out here on Lemmy. I think "female" as a noun is still used neutrally far more often than as a slur.
As an adult female human, I have never been called a "female" in a positive or neutral tone. The key point is that you basically never hear people calling men "males" anywhere outside of scientific discussion.
It’s more likely a field thing. People who work in fields highly dedicated to equity (esp. those working in healthcare) are especially concerned with their language and so create style guides that people outside those fields have gleaned from.
Wow, you've really succinctly put it best! Being a European myself, this is how I constantly feel when I hear racist shit in my daily life (mainly from family).
It's like, people here just can't even fathom that what they're saying is racist, that they're racist, because to them what they're saying is just a simple fact of life that everybody accepts. They don't show open animosity towards minorities or throw racial slurs like you'd see more in America (though there is definitely some of that here too don't get me wrong), but it's a very casual, low-key form of racism where folks comment on X group of people all being one way and no one batting an eye for example.
And if you so much as suggest they're racist, or the country they're in has or had issues with racism and other issues of oppression, a lot will legit fight you tooth and nail over it because they can't handle the notion of it.
It's really freaking weird and took me a lot of time to be conscious of it myself, since I grew up surrounded by this sort of attitude.
And it's not just right-leaning people doing this. Some minorities like the Romani are openly discriminated by just about everyone across the political spectrum, the degree just varies. And then based on the country you'll typically see a lot of Xenophobia towards the bigger migrant groups.
And even then the European countries that feel they're ahead of the rest tackling racism it's usually only the urban university educated talking with their fingers in their ears ignoring the majority of the rest of their country.
The things I've heard far too many Europeans of various nationalities say about MENA, Desi, Turkish, and Romani folk just... makes my skin crawl.
America has a deep racism problem, and it is both right and necessary to acknowledge it. But those who pretend that Europe doesn't have a deep racism problem are either not paying attention or in denial - especially considering recent political developments.
Definitely agree on the "Europe is just racist in a different way." Outside of the obvious ones (like Middle East & Africa), I'd also add racism/xenophobia against "Eastern" Europe (like Poland), which might surprise Americans because they're still white.
yall need to get off the high horse and take a joke sometimes. you terrorized the entire world via colonization for hundreds of years through modern day, if people harmlessly stereotype the german or french, make fun of british people, or tease the dutch language, yall can handle it
for context, im american. we get bullied all the time, and while not all americans are fat and stupid, the combination of that many are and that we've terrorized the world plenty make me think a lil teasing is fair
I think the issue, especially on Reddit, was the over-representation of US Americans compared to the other countries.
It gets old quite fast to get called a "surrender monkey" or a Nazi on a regular basis in a space where most of the audience is on the other side and I'm not even French or German.
Based on the comments it looks like Europeans weren't ready to hear some of these things. 😉 Let me pile on...
Innovation in Europe is stiffled due to a risk-averse culture, complex regulatory environments, fragmented markets across different countries, limited access to venture capital, and a tendency for established companies to be less receptive to new ideas from startups, making it harder for innovative companies to scale up (compared to the US).
at least the fragmented markets, limited venture capital and closed-mindedness of established compagnies are relatively well known and recognised, wouldn't say Europeans aren't ready to hear it
I was actually thinking the first two were the more detrimental, and are the reason behind lack of VC and closed minded companies. The fragmented markets is irritating, but overcomeable.
The opposite could maybe be said of the US: due to our crazy-pants lack of financial security, people are willing to do risky things, which, when successful, can drive innovation. I grew up in this culture, so it doesn't make me uncomfortable, but understand it isn't for everyone.
And other regulations are written by the lobbyists of big companies.
Here in Germany we have so many regulations that don't help anyone, except big companies who can circumvent or deal with them.
I don't want to reduce environmental or worker protection, but we need to simplify a lot of regulations so that the time to do the paperwork is reduced, one of the solutions should be good digitalisation.
Some are, sure. I think most on Lemmy support those kinds. While I enjoy the effects, USB-C mandates aren’t written in blood, and I suspect the majority of regulations are of that variety.
The USB-C mandate is a direct result of it being actively ignored by Apple. The way to universal chargers, first through micro USB and then USB C was also championed by the EU but only as a loose industry agreement or so. Definitely not enough to reign in Apple which is why it was now made mandatory.
The main motivation was to reduce electronic waste due to every device having a different charger and often not even standardising in the same company.
I support the mandate. Just pointing out that the whole “blood of victims” thing, while true of some very important regulations, is nonsense for most of them. There were no victims of lightning ports. There was no blood involved in generic Champagne being called Sparkling Wine.
Start-ups in the US benefit from an immediate market of 400 million people. The EU should be able to enjoy a similar benefit but you are right about the red tape. Obviously Brexit in the UK was a total anathema to that as well.
Doesn't really count if you have to google it first to know what it is, that's not what will save the European economy in the future. In the mean time other regions of the world dominate battery technology, battery-electric vehicles, handheld devices, social media, semiconductor technology, quantum computing, and basically the whole internet
Yes, and as we all know, feddit.org absolutely dominates the social media market.
I specifically wrote that in these areas other regions of the world are dominating. I'm well aware that there are some players from the EU in these areas. That's not the point. Europe is not leading in any major development of the last 30 years while in other areas they lose market share to the competition like automotive or space (with the notable exception of aviation).
Let's look at tech companies. Look at that list and tell me with a straight face that Europe is playing a dominant role:
ASML is such an undisputed leader in today’s chip ecosystem that it’s hard to believe the company’s market dominance really only dates back to 2017, when its EUV machine, after 17 years of development, upended the conventional process for making chips.
It’s also a testament to ASML’s dominance that it is for the most part no longer allowed to sell its most advanced systems to customers in China. Though ASML still does business in China, in 2019, following pressure from the Trump administration, the Dutch government began imposing restrictions on ASML’s exports of EUV machines to China. Those rules were tightened further just last year and now also impose limits on some of the company’s deep-ultraviolet (DUV) machines, which are used to make less highly advanced chips than EUV systems.
Yet although today everyone is banking on ASML to keep pushing the industry forward, there is speculation that a competitor could emerge from China. Van den Brink was dismissive of this possibility, citing the gap in even last-generation lithography.
“SMEE are making DUV machines, or at least claim they can,” he told MIT Technology Review, referring to a company that makes the predecessor to EUV lithography technology, and pointed out that ASML still has the dominant market share. The political pressures could mean more progress for China. But getting to the level of complexity involved in ASML’s suite of machines, with low, high, and hyper NA is another matter, he says: “I feel quite comfortable that this will be a long time before they can copy that.”
Yea my healthcare one quickly got down voted. Someone used GPT to try to disprove it. I'm even a big propilonent of public healthcare, but you can't assume it is perfect.
As someone who isn’t a European, most of these comments are yanks being loudly wrong about something and the saying “see the europeans weren’t ready to hear it” when someone points out how stupid the thing they said was.
Romanticizing "past greatness" seems to always involve some very shit politics. It's more obvious in these old empires, but it exists in more subtle forms elsewhere, too.
I was specifically talking about euros, but I guess a certain US president gets a honourable mention for his campaign slogan
You guys should start bulking up your militaries. At best, the US will completely abandon you, and I really don't want to think about worst-case scenario as I live in the US.
How would people who live outside of Europe know what Europeans are not ready to hear? As someone who lives in the U.S. I know only a couple of people IRL who live in Europe.
The thing my European friend was not ready to hear was that all his complaining about the social programs in his home country and the high taxes and so on comes across as entitled and spoiled. Because he's never lived without the benefits of a state that will provide healthcare and so on, he is free to complain about his privileges and glorify the U.S. as a place where individual citizens fill in the responsibilities that the government should fulfill. He sees this as an unmitigated good, because he thinks it means more civic engagement.
What he doesn't understand is that this results in most people falling through the cracks, and until he falls through one of those cracks himself it won't be real to him how bad it is to not be able to afford losing wages because you are sick or injured, or what it's like when you can't afford to see a doctor when you break a bone or get so sick you can't leave your house.
That said, I'm not sure every European needs to hear this, or that they're not ready to hear it - just this one person seemed to be a little delusional and to have idealized the U.S. as some kind of right-wing libertarian utopia.
Europe as a whole is swinging too far too the right. Y’all all are descending back into Fascism. The recent popularity of the AfD in Germany being a prime example. My own parents - who immigrated from Germany - are deeply disappointed in the direction the country is taking.
Once years ago when I used to smoke, on was visiting Ghana and people were literally yelling at me for smoking in public. It's illegal to smoke in public in a few African countries at this point IIRC.
It's always jarring to go to an otherwise gorgeous and cosmopolitan EU city and see the kind of cigarette litter the US has 30 years ago. Where I live in the US, cops actually write tickets for throwing butts on the ground, and people will yell at you for it. In Lisbon or Paris, there are entire parts of the city which just smell like an ash tray because of all the cigarette litter.
Europeans are really fucking racist. Asians and Jews are cool and yet yall are really weird about them. and don't get me started on how badly Islam is vilified...
It really does feel like online communities get more relentlessly xenophobic when they have more Europeans. It just seems like a lot of you can't get by without mentioning where someone's from. Like, no, someone not seeing the value in retro computing doesn't say anything about "the intelligence of the average Scot." And if you can't tell where they're from, American by default.
Europeans like to pretend they're innocent, but they are the benefactors of most the damaging empires to have ever existed. They colonized nearly the entire world, extracting value from other cultures while destroying them. They pulled out once it was financially wise, keeping the wealth they extracted and leaving behind the destruction they created. They then blame everyone else for their issues while bragging about how awesome the EU is while overlooking that the EU is only possible due to the wealth they stole from everyone else. Europe likes to discuss that they had their social hardship discussing WWII, but the origin and impact of WWII there was internal to Europe. Had Europe been subject to colonization from elsewhere, it would be just as much a mess as other places. Look at the situation in former Soviet Pact countries that were practically colonized by Russia for maybe half a century. Now imagine if instead of half a century, it was hundreds of years and 5 times as brutal.
Fun fact: The term "colony" comes from Christopher Colombus' name, which is Spanish is Cristobal Colon. Even the term colonization derives from a European. Apparently, that was incorrect.
tl;dr: Europe got to where it is by destroying the rest of the world while blaming the rest of the world for their issues. Their critique of USA is merely a distraction from their own responsibility.
European racism is out of control to the point of cringe. The new world cannot hold a candle to you.
Here is a quick example. Netflix released a Norwegian movie called "Christmas as Usual" (translated). It essentially takes the concept of the American 1967 film "Guess Who's Coming To Dinner", moves it to Norway and gives it a holiday twist. According to Netflix, this 2023 film was in the Top 10 in thirty countries. How? How is a movie concept from America's peak civil rights battles era working for you in 2023?
My wife is European and my largest clients are European with European staff and the abundance of casual racism is hard for myself and my staff to handle. Don't get me started on my family in-law.
EDIT: Europeans were definitely not ready to hear this one. LOL
The film was one of the few of the time to depict an interracial marriage in a positive light, as interracial marriage historically had been illegal in many states of the United States. It was still illegal in 17 states, until June 12, 1967, six months before the film was released, and scenes were filmed just before anti-miscegenation laws were struck down by the Supreme Court in Loving v. Virginia.
Because it should be a non-issue and not an impactful or driving feature of the film.
That feature of the film moved the status quo in 1967. It seemed like that was the point.
If a film were released in America today that pushed interracial marriage as an issue, most would find it racist because it is not a large issue in the greater culture (for the most part).
But I thought the movie only has a similar plot to this 1967 movie, which only featured interracial marriage in a positive light. Does it actually focus on interracial marriage? Because so far nobody has mentioned anything objectable.
Wikipedia describes the origin different, so maybe the parallels were not intended:
The film is based on the true story of Holmsen's sister, a Norwegian, and her relationship with an Indian, whom she brings home for Christmas Eve. The film was released to negative reviews.
I think you are missing the context of the film I used as an example. All the friction and the "comedy" in the film comes from the racism. From the start, it is the point.
The taxi driver picks them up from the airport and asks the main character if he is from India. When he replies yes and asks if the driver if he's ever been there, his reply is no but he stopped in Turkey once. The when they arrive the soon to be mother-in-law assumes that the Indian boyfriend is the Taxi driver and the driver is the boyfriend. We are five minutes into the film at this point and it goes downhill from there.
That is just one easy to digest example using media. Our real life daily interactions with the staff from our European clients is a never ending source for more.
EDIT: Europeans were definitely not ready to hear this one. LOL
Nah, your example is just shit and that the new world cannot hold a candle to us is fucking insane, y'all just re-elected Trump ffs. We definitely have a racism problem in European countries as well but our Trumpian party in Germany is currently polling at 19%, which is awful enough but to claim that it's that much better in the US is fucking nuts. I'm in a multiracial marriage myself and while my wife experiences racism in Germany, it's to a somewhat similar extent to the US
Aah, I see. Well, it varies based on what I've eaten. I ate maple sausage and scrambled eggs with cheddar cheese and chives for breakfast so I guess it'd be an American fart?
I'm afraid I don't have one in the chamber though, so no farts to share.
Soccer is fine. It's the flopping which makes it unwatchable.
Bro you are a full grown fucking man in the prime of your life and you just spent the last minute rolling around on the turf screaming in agony but now you're back at 100% for the next attack?
The game really needs a rule which requires any player who goes to the turf for longer than 10s to get a sub or serve a 60s penalty.
The US is not a mono-culture and most of us (unfortunately not all of them voted) are against most of the things we as a country are ridiculed over.
I swear, replace "US" or "Americans" in some of the stuff Europeans are posting/commenting with any other country, and those would sound xenophobic AF. But somehow, because 'Murica, it gets a pass.
It's kind of funny because if you go look at the reply about soccer, several people are like "that wasn't the Europeans, that was the brits!"
It's the same thing here with different states doing different crazy things ... Not that we also don't do some stuff nationally that's crazy, like electing a certain felon, but ya know
Europe is nothing other than a geographical location, western Russia is also in "Europe", but surely you can see how this is not the same as the US, which is not a geographical location but a specific political entity?
People obviously don't judge Venezuela for what the US does and vice versa, so why include the UK in discourse about EU?
Iirc I assumed you simply used Europe as short-hand for EU, kind of like saying America but you really mean the US, because otherwise the comment makes no sense at all.
Also I’m kind of confused how quickly you’re giving the UK the cold shoulder. It was in the EU for 47 years and has only been out of it for 4 (less than a tenth of the time), and yet you seem really quick to dismiss it and what it may or may not have brought to the EU. Why is that?
The UK was giving the rest of the EU the cold shoulder for most of its time in the Union. Not willing to switch to the Euro, not wanting to join Schengen.
Not sure if you are British, but even though I would be happy if the UK would join the EU in a few dozens years, I also understand why people feel a bit cold towards the UK in the context of Brexit.
If Europeans looked at states like countries it’d make more sense to them. Hell it almost is with the size of states vs counties, the amount of land and the fact that every freaking state still has its own set of laws that may differ.
True, but even then each state isn't even a mono-culture. I'm as guilty as any when it comes to stereotyping states (particularly Florida via "Florida Man") but I'm trying to get out of that mindset myself lol.
This is a widely recognized principle: kicking those above is OK, kicking those below isn't. The US is the most powerful country in the world, its culture dominates the globe, and celebrates that fact. So they are OK to kick.
Even within States, there is a diversity of culture. Looking at Louisiana, the New Orleans area is highly influenced by French history resulting in Cajun culture, while the rest of the state is generally Southern. Florida is similar to Ancient Greece and its city-states in that the metropolitan areas have their own culture. But even within the southeast metro area, Miami and West Palm Beach are culturally quite different. Even more zoomed in, consider the Bay Area (Frisco). The Haight-Ashbury district is commonly considered the birthplace of the hippie movement, whereas across the bay is Oakland, birthplace of the Black Panthers. Both were quite progressive yet at odds with each other due to cultural differences stemming from race.
We can zoom out and look at cultural differences across the country within the same racial group. For example, there's the famous East Coast vs West Coast rivalry in hip-hop that is so real, it resulted in the murders of Tupac Shakur and Biggie Smalls. Even within the same coast, New York hip-hop, such as Busta Rhymes, Jay-Z, and Wu-Tang, is noticeably different from Atalanta hip-hop, such as Outkast, Missy Elliot, and Ludacris. Even as static as race is, white rapper Eminem is often included in Black culture.
Within the White rural sphere, we can contrast Upper Peninsula Michiganders (Yoopers) with their major influence coming from long harsh winters to the Appalachians who are known for being culturally isolated, having a mistrust of outsiders and a history of conflict with mining companies. Then, we have rural white people from West Texas to Nevada that are influenced by the Wild West period and local native cultures. Even within that, Texans are much more conservative with social matters whereas Nevada has legal gambling and prostitution. They way I make sense of culture in the US is that it is an overlapping area of varying fields that interact with each other so that even direct lifelong neighbors can have have vastly different cultures.
I don't think I have to explain that obviously, this is the case in Europe as well. E.g. Germany alone has 16 vastly different states, and each state has multiple subcultures. The main difference is, our subcultures are more than a thousand years old, and the US 250.
Most Europeans still have a casual sense of arrogance and superiority over the rest of the world. It's not very heavy, but it's there, even among some of the best people I know
It's not just the US that has bland restaurants and/or is afraid of spice.
I've been to restaurants in the Czech Republic, Germany, Poland, Austria, and Bulgaria.
I'm sure there are places that spice things up more and some of the restaurants were really good, but some were also some of the most bland food I've had at a restaurant.
It's the same thing in the US; there are places that won't put any spice on and there are places that will leave you crying the food is so hot and everything in-between.
Also every "Mexican" food dish I've had in Europe has just been bad. Y'all are doing it wrong.
Spicy food does not mean good food or more interesting food, eastern European food is almost never spicy but it's almost always really good and hardly bland as most westerners would cower in fear at the sight of some marinated fish or some such.
I used to live in Japan, and let me tell you, a lot of typical Japanese cooking is unexpectedly quite lightly seasoned. I don't mean all food, but especially common things like rice and fish dishes.
It lets you taste the food itself more than the seasoning. If you start with good ingredients, you don't need to dress it up as much.
Yeah the western dichotomy of "bland" and "spicy" is only an accurate representation of their own view of the world and has little to do with the truth.
Worst offender in my experience: the Dutch. I actually think their way of "seasoning" is to actively remove any natural flavour from the ingredients. They have the best Indonesian food outside South-East Asia though. Also, the Nordic Countries do a lot of things right, food is not one of them.
Also every "Mexican" food dish I've had in Europe has just been bad. Y'all are doing it wrong.
Yes, I read that a lot from Americans. I don't think Europeans care much for Mexican food because there's mostly no cultural connection to Mexico and no Mexican immigrants (Spain might be an exception). The rare Mexican restaurants you'll find in Europe are there for the American soldiers stationed here. Basically, when in Europe, go for Arab, Asian, or African food if you don't like the local food.
I had some pretty terrible Thai in Poland, so it's definitely not uniquely Mexican food 🙂 That's just one that I've had a few more encounters with that was more consistently bad.
Fair point about the cultural influence; it's probably less cultural influence than number of immigrants (and the US definitely has a lot of immigrants from asia and Mexico). I live in Ohio, so I'm fairly far from the border, but the Mexican food still ranges from "pretty good" to "fantastic."
Meanwhile finding like good French, German, or Belgian cooking, even in areas with historic immigration from those areas in decades or centuries past is quite difficult.
Even more traditional "early European American immigrant" food (like chicken and noodles, mashed potatoes, corn on the cob, mush, turkey, roast beef sandwiches, etc) can feel endangered outside of Amish country, family kitchens, and large chain restaurants that do it badly.
Generally the cuisine in those countries isn't spicy, but does not shy away from herbs and pickled anything. However we've been plagued by overpriced, tourist trap bad restaurants here, and Covid just made it worse.
I do echo that Mexican restaurants in Europe that I've been to are bad or meh at best. I've never been to Mexico and I hope the restaurants are owned by exiles who fled the country hunted by pitchfork wielding mobs, infuriated at how bad the cooks were :D
Probably varies depending on where you live. I don't even live in a big American city, but we do have access to a wide variety of restaurants including very spicy ones (they have non-spicy options of course, but there's plenty of places that serve spicy dishes from all over the globe.
And on the other hand I don't get the obsession with putting so much spice into your dish that you can't taste the ingredients. "Seasoned" does not automatically mean "so much chilli pepper that it makes you sweat".
The sound from my portable bluetooth speaker. But that's mostly because it's a shitty speaker and you can barely hear it when it's sitting 3 feet away let alone when there's at minimum an ocean between you and it.
France, Germany, and Austria all have a military-industrial complex problem. MIL money might not dominate their politics the same way as the US, but there is a problem there.
Even with their post-WW2 defensive militaries, Germany and Austria are perfectly ready to sell military hardware to anyone with the cash. H&K, Glock, and Steyr all hail from those two.
France sold off the Exocet anti-ship missile to just about anyone. As far as I can tell, it has only been fired in anger at the boats of other NATO members. Thanks, France!
Not Eurpoe specifically but I shared a rather basic comment on YouTube joking about Great Britain causing famines in India but its okay because they brought trains and the result is a mile long thread of pissed off UK suckers telling me I'm wrong, that there was no fammine, the Wikipedia article and its 300 sources are fake, and that the British empire totally went around modernizing civilization for the benefit of humanity. (Was a post about Irish complaining about a very crappy Irish History book made by a British author)
So I guess for any of those people, no GB was just a colonist empire racing to exploit the hell out of resources faster than France, Spain, and Portugal. The technology they brought was used almost exclusively in their conquest operations (Trains used to transport goods and resources) and they actively supported and supplied opposition groups to destabilize and overthrow governments similar to what the USA does today.
I mean seriously, they held immense power over China via opium and are responsible for practically every shill state in the middle east because they provided weapons to overthrow the Ottaman empire.
The iconic pan arab flag is actually a British designed flag given to all the opposition groups they funded to break up Ottaman power.
They fell apart after exhausting their power in WWII and the USA came in to save them so now they gleefully cheer about how they carried in WWII with intelligence services as if Germany couldn't have easily invaded the entire nation overnight had Hitler not been an incompetent moron.
Thankfully, after exploiting half the world, they totally didn't spend the last of their power screwing over every former colony into some long term problem that they could exploit without the need for military power.
EU collaboration and integration is a joke. Politically, the EU is divided and bizarrely complex. There are movements to improve this but they are not as popular as the sloganistic alt right that essentially just want to give up and go back to separate countries
Yeah, we Europeans have to figure out how to work together better, because that's the only chance we have of being independent from countries like Russia, China (or the US).
I spent three weeks in Belgium twenty years ago studying the EU's structure, with a lot of time spent on the "Constitution" treaty that failed in 2005. The professors were all generally in favor of it, so maybe they overstated its benefits and definitely overstated its chances, but it sure seems like it would have helped.
Also, the pea soup at the university canteen was surprisingly good.
Many of us I the US want to come there, and we're willing to contribute, but the barriers of entry are too high. I likely won't be able to until after retirement and that probably won't be until I'm too old to move. And I have a lot to contribute if I could find a way to get on my feet. The US doesn't allow for building enough wealth to start a business right out of the gate, unless you're already born wealthy or get lucky and are willing to be exploitative, and in that case I could use a different visa to get in. Immigration isn't all welfare cases and even with those who do need that help having a system in place to allow then to contribute while they get on their feet would benefit everyone. Dump the idea that you need to be extreme capitalists like the US and start embracing the people who need help to get started and most of them will contribute significantly as they will be so prideful of the place that took them in.
Youtube always shows off all the progressive and positive aspects of Europe. Bike lanes, relable trains.
Was so jealous.
Then heard that my game buddy is off to manditory milatary service.
The idea that the government can take away a year of your life, and thats normal is still a tough pill to swallow.
Apparently soccer is offensive even though I grew up in AYSO. i got in the habit of calling them association football and gridiron football, respectively.
I thought the corruption of the leagues and the fanatcism of the US is bad and scary. Then I learned about FIFA. i had no idea.
It's aluminum. Y'all just changed it to aluminium so it sounded like other elements. Which is even funnier because not all elements end with ium despite that being the main reason for the change.
Well for one thing, there is that one obvious thing which Americans and everyone else are also unready to hear: You need to give up fossil fuels. No more coal, no more gas, no more petrol, no more diesel. Some parts of Europe like to think they're well on the way to that goal but even there for the most part you've barely begun and are moving too slowly or in the wrong direction (e.g. biofuels). The hard part cannot be put off for much longer.
EU institutions are just as regulatory captured as everywhere else. The EU bureaucracy is horribly inefficient with tons of unfirable "human drones" making 2x for the same role one does in the the private market, where they just do 1/10x of the work. The only reason EU is not quite as corrupt as USA is ironically because all the competing rich fuckers of each nation are competing with each other's lobbying
Europeans came up with the word "soccer" as a shortened form of "Association football" to distinguish it from the numerous other forms of football being played (rugby etc).
It was not Europeans. It was the British. And it was the upper class British. Specifically at the Oxford University.
The people in both continental Europe and Britain always called it football.
"Soccer" is technically a slur for lower class football.
Even the British call it football now, but the soccer slur still lives on in America and other colonies.
OK, so this may shock some, but my posh English school called football 'soccer'. Football was what most people would call rugby. Cricket was... Cricket.
😄 Thank you. Obviously not what I was referring to, but still a point.
In Japan the most common term is sakkā, that came into use from US influence after the war. Both futtobōru and football is in use, though.
Although the official English name of the Japan Football Association uses the term "football", the term sakkā (サッカー), derived from "soccer", is much more commonly used than futtobōru (フットボール). The JFA's Japanese name is Nippon Sakkā Kyōkai.
Before World War II the term in general use was shūkyū (蹴球, kick-ball), a Sino-Japanese term. With previously exclusive Japanese terms replaced by American influence after the war, sakkā became more commonplace. In recent years, many professional teams have named themselves F.C.s (football clubs), with examples being FC Tokyo and Kyoto Sanga FC.
soccer is an abbreviation of associated football. which apparently had rather upper class implications in the UK and as such the word never caught on with the hoi poloi
The Europeans have had -many- centuries longer to screw -everything- up in -every way- and then, eventually, regret it. A bit. So, like most of us humans, who learn most lessons the hard way, they have finally settled on something they can live with ... and they call it civilization. With pride.
Amongst those living there who don't know all of that history - like most humans - they assume that things got that way reasonably. And brag about it as if it was true.
Unlike the middle East - which has had -millenia- longer to learn - and which was, is, and it seems always will be, screwing everything up in every way. While they all point their fingers elsewhere. And build very large monuments to survive them.
Laicite is illiberal. Leaving aside that it explicitly favors Christianity over other religions, it still violates human rights, specifically free expression.
buy and large Europeans are much more racist than Americans. in america it is not at all uncommon to have a ton of different races (I'm from a small town in Texas and we had a lot of Mexicans, black people, and a couple different Asian races (yes there are different ones)). that's not to say every European is racist and it's not to say that none of us are, but European countries tend to be much more homogeneous than the us and as a result tend to be more racist.
I believe everyone is ready to hear anything, they might get angry but that's just the nature of stupidity (since we're on the internet I think I should specify that angry≠disagreeing and vice versa)
“Why do you call it ‘football’ when they use their hands?” is the least original, least funny joke you could possibly make to an American. Also, there are more kicks in an average American football game than there are in an average rugby game, and you guys call rugby “football”
Not everyone wants to live in some EU places because those areas are too densely packed. Vienna has been voted the most livable city many years in a row, but most residential areas I saw were filled with apartments, condos or townhomes.
If war breaks out between NATO and Russia, Europe hasn't kept up enough military power to hold the Russians back while waiting for America to come bail them out. Their countries are gonna get hardcore trashed in the process.
And yet those weaker countries (a) want to get into the EU and (b) don't want to leave it. Absolutely nobody is forced to be controlled by France and Germany.
The Euro also brought some positive benefits for its citizens, no longer having to pay bank charges all the time for conversions between francs, lira, marks and so on. Which arguable was the original point, rather than some kind of imperialism.
Most of the world dislikes you, and are not happy when they run into you on the internet. Mostly because it’s been almost 600 years & y’all still haven’t gone home.
Yall need ac. Get with the fucking times bro. Every summer yall just dying over there. We aren't fixing global warming in this lifetime just buy an ac unit
I don't know enough to speak effectively to the overall point, but the banned food additive list and is only a microscopic portion of what food regulators do
As an European, I think the obscene amount of lobbying we allow to happen around EU institutions is something that makes "European democracy is just as bad" sound reasonable.
What are you smoking? We don't even have corn syrup in our soda or chlorine in our chickens, no putrasene for chocolate, in Europe we don't even know what tums are which seems to be a common thing to take in the US. We have chemical food dyes but just because they're chemicals - as is everything - doesn't mean they're bad.
to be fair, if youre arguing about the effectiveness of agencies like the FDA, im not sure that this is really relevant. You can make greasy, sugary, carb laden food out of the safest, purest, most well researched ingredients without any additives and it will still be an unhealthy diet. The FDA cant reasonably mandate that people have to eat their vegetables after all, at least not and actually expect people will listen to them. Im not saying that the FDA actually does do its job better or worse, I dont know that, but I feel like food quality in the sense that an agency like that can control is more a "does this stuff contain toxic ingredients" rather than "does the culture of this area like a well rounded diet".
But their regulations are more strict overall. There are a lot of US foods can't be imported without reformulating the product.
Which fascist did whatever EU country vote for this term?
Bruh, we literally just elected a fascist felon who tried to overthrow the government when he lost the last time who openly surrounded himself with fascists pushing project 2025. It's not even a close challenge...
The democracy in the USA is bad because you have a two-party system, meaning that there's barely any choice. In the Netherlands, we have a whole bunch of political parties that share space in Parliament, so that representation is proportional to the votes.
As a result, we have both the PVV and GL-PvdA in Parliament; one is very right on most subjects, the other is pretty leftist.
Muslims hated us first though and some of them (that currently live here) want to destroy our civilisation in favour of their barbaric medieval religion, and their continuing growth causes me some concern about when there are enough of them around, and someone has started a sharia party, and all the imams go "you must all now vote for sharia" how many of them will follow that decree (and how many non-muslim useful idiots will too).
Not enough concern for me to start hating or discriminating against them on an individual basis, but everyone's different and some are further down that road than I am.
Sometimes, while seeing discourse about the US, I think our region should try to better align itself with Europe, that stronger connections and cooperation could benefit us both.
Then I see how Europeans get when our name comes up and it's no wonder we're calling China instead. Sure, they don't care about us either, but at least they put on an act and we might get something out of it rather than just racism and neocolonialism.
Really, I'm steadily approaching the point where I wouldn't mind much if you all nuked each other out of existence, much like you wouldn't care if we disappeared either. In the absence of names, no such thing as friends beyond borders.
You all need to just start making English an official language across the EU. Yeah I know that's very American imperialist of me to say, but most of you speak it already anyway and it would make travel and communication so much easier. It feels like you all are insisting on speaking different languages just to pretend you have unique cultures when let's be real, once you welcome McDonalds that ship has sailed.
European and UK universal healthcare is able to exist in it's current form and at it's current cost because the US has private healthcare.
Healthcare Companies give heavy discounts to UK/EU to make extra money, they are fully funded by US payors and thus patients. If US healthcare went public and it ate into profits, and other countries run low on healthcare funds (the NHS, right now), private insurance or more likely, increased taxes, in those countries may be required. The NHS is already considering pay-to-play models.
Note: This is a simplification of lots of details around the international transactions and legislation.
Note 2: Before disagreeing, pick a pharma company and look at their annual report.
Note 3: Clarified form and cost based on an astute commenter below.
Europe is not as different from the US as it likes to pretend, especially politically.
Racism is not a unique or exceptionally American phenomenon, and the things I've heard from otherwise progressive Europeans can fucking curdle milk equal or in excess to what people in my ultra-rural ultra-conservative home region of the US can say.
I've had good friends who were Europeans studying here, and they can definitely be very insensitive and racist. What makes the two flavors of racism different to me is American racism is typically very confrontational, tribalistic. White man calling a black man a slur, and there's something cavalier about it, maybe even humorous on the part of the racist.
Europeans have a much more "it is the way it is" attitude. I've heard friends talk very disparagingly about interracial couples, or blacks in general, and the attitude is less "hate for hate's sake" but instead "it is the wrong way to be and my way is correct". Fascinatingly, when you point out the bigotry, my friends have typically refused to accept their bias (at best), and will deny they're racist.
I've heard Europeans call Turks 'filthy' and 'roaches' and Africans 'monkeys'. And don't get me started on the things said about the Romani.
I don't think there's a difference in how tribalistic or vicious it is.
Weird. I haven't.
Making sure I'm reading this right...I know a guy who claims he isn't sexist but that it is OK to pay women less because they aren't as good at some things as men. So in his mind, it isn't sexist to pay women less or even claim they should be paid less - even though it is.
Is that similar to what you're saying?
Not a bad way of comparing it tbh
Did you type 'females' instead of 'women' for the sake of the argument or did you get caught up in it as well?
Guess I got caught in it. Just looked it up and didn't realize until now that female wasn't an acceptable word to use. TIL. Thanks!
The easy way to understand and remember is that "female" is an adjective the vast majority of the time, and it's usually misogynists and incels using it as a noun.
I think mysoginists just have a lot of spotlight on them, or are vocal. I hadn't been aware of "female" being used as a slur before it was pointed out here on Lemmy. I think "female" as a noun is still used neutrally far more often than as a slur.
As an adult female human, I have never been called a "female" in a positive or neutral tone. The key point is that you basically never hear people calling men "males" anywhere outside of scientific discussion.
While we're on the topic, I think "black people" is the preferred term (in general it's adjectives over nouns, like "gay people" vs "gays")
I've heard people of all types use the word 'blacks' I think it's a regional thing.
It’s more likely a field thing. People who work in fields highly dedicated to equity (esp. those working in healthcare) are especially concerned with their language and so create style guides that people outside those fields have gleaned from.
Example:
Hey fair enough. I use whites so I tend to use the same kind of term in the other direction, too. I don't mean anything insulting by it
Wow, you've really succinctly put it best! Being a European myself, this is how I constantly feel when I hear racist shit in my daily life (mainly from family).
It's like, people here just can't even fathom that what they're saying is racist, that they're racist, because to them what they're saying is just a simple fact of life that everybody accepts. They don't show open animosity towards minorities or throw racial slurs like you'd see more in America (though there is definitely some of that here too don't get me wrong), but it's a very casual, low-key form of racism where folks comment on X group of people all being one way and no one batting an eye for example.
And if you so much as suggest they're racist, or the country they're in has or had issues with racism and other issues of oppression, a lot will legit fight you tooth and nail over it because they can't handle the notion of it.
It's really freaking weird and took me a lot of time to be conscious of it myself, since I grew up surrounded by this sort of attitude.
And it's not just right-leaning people doing this. Some minorities like the Romani are openly discriminated by just about everyone across the political spectrum, the degree just varies. And then based on the country you'll typically see a lot of Xenophobia towards the bigger migrant groups.
And even then the European countries that feel they're ahead of the rest tackling racism it's usually only the urban university educated talking with their fingers in their ears ignoring the majority of the rest of their country.
The things I've heard far too many Europeans of various nationalities say about MENA, Desi, Turkish, and Romani folk just... makes my skin crawl.
America has a deep racism problem, and it is both right and necessary to acknowledge it. But those who pretend that Europe doesn't have a deep racism problem are either not paying attention or in denial - especially considering recent political developments.
Very true
Just ask a Mexican person what it’s like to travel to Spain
Ask a Spanish or Portuguese person what it's like to travel to France or Belgium. Italians used to face racism in other European countries a few generations ago: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Dogs_or_Italians_Allowed
I have been surprised by how racist many Brits are
sexist too.
Definitely agree on the "Europe is just racist in a different way." Outside of the obvious ones (like Middle East & Africa), I'd also add racism/xenophobia against "Eastern" Europe (like Poland), which might surprise Americans because they're still white.
Europeans are just as susceptible to racism as Americans.
yall need to get off the high horse and take a joke sometimes. you terrorized the entire world via colonization for hundreds of years through modern day, if people harmlessly stereotype the german or french, make fun of british people, or tease the dutch language, yall can handle it
for context, im american. we get bullied all the time, and while not all americans are fat and stupid, the combination of that many are and that we've terrorized the world plenty make me think a lil teasing is fair
Yes it's perfectly fair and most of us don't mind.
I think the issue, especially on Reddit, was the over-representation of US Americans compared to the other countries.
It gets old quite fast to get called a "surrender monkey" or a Nazi on a regular basis in a space where most of the audience is on the other side and I'm not even French or German.
On Lemmy it's probably a bit more balanced.
I guess let’s see what happens with the Germany elections in February because that nazi line may start to ring true.
Does the Trump election gives everyone the right to call all US citizens convicted felons?
Certainly gives everyone the right to call us a country of idiots.
Sounds derogatory and xenophobic
It is not derogatory if it is true.
You guys elected a felon.
Just opened a thread on ![email protected] about that, the polls look okay. The non far-right parties should be able to create a coalition.
Based on the comments it looks like Europeans weren't ready to hear some of these things. 😉 Let me pile on...
Innovation in Europe is stiffled due to a risk-averse culture, complex regulatory environments, fragmented markets across different countries, limited access to venture capital, and a tendency for established companies to be less receptive to new ideas from startups, making it harder for innovative companies to scale up (compared to the US).
at least the fragmented markets, limited venture capital and closed-mindedness of established compagnies are relatively well known and recognised, wouldn't say Europeans aren't ready to hear it
I was actually thinking the first two were the more detrimental, and are the reason behind lack of VC and closed minded companies. The fragmented markets is irritating, but overcomeable.
yeah I think I'd agree with that, hut I'm risk-averse myself so can't go pointing blame at others
The opposite could maybe be said of the US: due to our crazy-pants lack of financial security, people are willing to do risky things, which, when successful, can drive innovation. I grew up in this culture, so it doesn't make me uncomfortable, but understand it isn't for everyone.
Regulations are written in the blood of the victims.
And other regulations are written by the lobbyists of big companies.
Here in Germany we have so many regulations that don't help anyone, except big companies who can circumvent or deal with them.
I don't want to reduce environmental or worker protection, but we need to simplify a lot of regulations so that the time to do the paperwork is reduced, one of the solutions should be good digitalisation.
Some are, sure. I think most on Lemmy support those kinds. While I enjoy the effects, USB-C mandates aren’t written in blood, and I suspect the majority of regulations are of that variety.
The USB-C mandate is a direct result of it being actively ignored by Apple. The way to universal chargers, first through micro USB and then USB C was also championed by the EU but only as a loose industry agreement or so. Definitely not enough to reign in Apple which is why it was now made mandatory.
The main motivation was to reduce electronic waste due to every device having a different charger and often not even standardising in the same company.
I support the mandate. Just pointing out that the whole “blood of victims” thing, while true of some very important regulations, is nonsense for most of them. There were no victims of lightning ports. There was no blood involved in generic Champagne being called Sparkling Wine.
Start-ups in the US benefit from an immediate market of 400 million people. The EU should be able to enjoy a similar benefit but you are right about the red tape. Obviously Brexit in the UK was a total anathema to that as well.
Rather have stifled innovation than innovation running rampant like what the US is doing.
With stifled innovation you only get through if you have an actual good idea instead of just an idea that makes money.
From what J can see innovation is happening just fine
Tell me one big innovation of the last 30 years where Europe is leading
na-euv
Doesn't really count if you have to google it first to know what it is, that's not what will save the European economy in the future. In the mean time other regions of the world dominate battery technology, battery-electric vehicles, handheld devices, social media, semiconductor technology, quantum computing, and basically the whole internet
Are you saying that semiconductors and chipset manufacturing is not a critical domain today?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umicore
Ironic as you are using a Lemmy instance based in Austria
A few other companies in the fields you mentioned:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/20-most-valuable-european-tech-221145055.html
Yes, and as we all know, feddit.org absolutely dominates the social media market.
I specifically wrote that in these areas other regions of the world are dominating. I'm well aware that there are some players from the EU in these areas. That's not the point. Europe is not leading in any major development of the last 30 years while in other areas they lose market share to the competition like automotive or space (with the notable exception of aviation).
Let's look at tech companies. Look at that list and tell me with a straight face that Europe is playing a dominant role:
https://companiesmarketcap.com/tech/largest-tech-companies-by-market-cap/
Out of the 100 biggest companies, there are only 10 from the whole continent.
https://www.technologyreview.com/2024/04/01/1090393/how-asml-took-over-the-chipmaking-chessboard/
Maybe you have to Google it
You keep using your phone, and ignoring what tech allows all modern computers to exist. Tech isn't a major industry, right?
And Europe is not dominating that industry
Just the foundation it's build upon
Ain't no way you gonna put all of Europe into that statement. You do understand that each country have their own system, policies and regulatory laws?
The problem here is that what you're saying is maybe true for a handful of countries while completely false and inaccurate for a handful of others.
We're not one single entity. Your statement is just not accurate as a whole.
Yea my healthcare one quickly got down voted. Someone used GPT to try to disprove it. I'm even a big propilonent of public healthcare, but you can't assume it is perfect.
Too many people smoke in Europe and it's too widely accepted.
As someone who isn’t a European, most of these comments are yanks being loudly wrong about something and the saying “see the europeans weren’t ready to hear it” when someone points out how stupid the thing they said was.
Idolizing the past (and long gone) 'grandeur' of some European countries is not the best way to prepare for the future.
edit: as a disclaimer, I'm European from one of those once important countries.
Romanticizing "past greatness" seems to always involve some very shit politics. It's more obvious in these old empires, but it exists in more subtle forms elsewhere, too.
I was specifically talking about euros, but I guess a certain US president gets a honourable mention for his campaign slogan
Knackered, as t'were?
Such an underrated comment
You guys should start bulking up your militaries. At best, the US will completely abandon you, and I really don't want to think about worst-case scenario as I live in the US.
How would people who live outside of Europe know what Europeans are not ready to hear? As someone who lives in the U.S. I know only a couple of people IRL who live in Europe.
The thing my European friend was not ready to hear was that all his complaining about the social programs in his home country and the high taxes and so on comes across as entitled and spoiled. Because he's never lived without the benefits of a state that will provide healthcare and so on, he is free to complain about his privileges and glorify the U.S. as a place where individual citizens fill in the responsibilities that the government should fulfill. He sees this as an unmitigated good, because he thinks it means more civic engagement.
What he doesn't understand is that this results in most people falling through the cracks, and until he falls through one of those cracks himself it won't be real to him how bad it is to not be able to afford losing wages because you are sick or injured, or what it's like when you can't afford to see a doctor when you break a bone or get so sick you can't leave your house.
That said, I'm not sure every European needs to hear this, or that they're not ready to hear it - just this one person seemed to be a little delusional and to have idealized the U.S. as some kind of right-wing libertarian utopia.
-Goes on to do exactly that
Bröther
You take your lööps for granted, Eurøpeans. Your Sïster grows weary.
A Møøse once bit my sister...
does she prowl the forests fighting bandits with her newfound møøse powers?
Just ignore he was talking about one specific european he knows, that was making out the states to be superior
Opinions differ from person to person, some people here really are a bit disconnected from reality
of course, I assume most Europeans are not like my friend :-)
I thought America was racist until I saw a member of UK Parliament tweeting about a boat of migrants sinking with "Good riddance".
Europe as a whole is swinging too far too the right. Y’all all are descending back into Fascism. The recent popularity of the AfD in Germany being a prime example. My own parents - who immigrated from Germany - are deeply disappointed in the direction the country is taking.
Smoking kills.
The numbers are a bit worse than I thought https://www.datapandas.org/ranking/smoking-rates-by-country.
As usual, Sweden is doing well. So are a lot of African countries.
Once years ago when I used to smoke, on was visiting Ghana and people were literally yelling at me for smoking in public. It's illegal to smoke in public in a few African countries at this point IIRC.
Just came back from France it's out of control there seemingly.
Most of us dislike it. But it's also true that we have quite a lot of tobacco users. It's just disgusting
Why wouldn't Europeans be ready to hear that? Pretty sure we've been hearing it on a regular basis since the 70's
It's always jarring to go to an otherwise gorgeous and cosmopolitan EU city and see the kind of cigarette litter the US has 30 years ago. Where I live in the US, cops actually write tickets for throwing butts on the ground, and people will yell at you for it. In Lisbon or Paris, there are entire parts of the city which just smell like an ash tray because of all the cigarette litter.
Europeans are really fucking racist. Asians and Jews are cool and yet yall are really weird about them. and don't get me started on how badly Islam is vilified...
It really does feel like online communities get more relentlessly xenophobic when they have more Europeans. It just seems like a lot of you can't get by without mentioning where someone's from. Like, no, someone not seeing the value in retro computing doesn't say anything about "the intelligence of the average Scot." And if you can't tell where they're from, American by default.
Europeans like to pretend they're innocent, but they are the benefactors of most the damaging empires to have ever existed. They colonized nearly the entire world, extracting value from other cultures while destroying them. They pulled out once it was financially wise, keeping the wealth they extracted and leaving behind the destruction they created. They then blame everyone else for their issues while bragging about how awesome the EU is while overlooking that the EU is only possible due to the wealth they stole from everyone else. Europe likes to discuss that they had their social hardship discussing WWII, but the origin and impact of WWII there was internal to Europe. Had Europe been subject to colonization from elsewhere, it would be just as much a mess as other places. Look at the situation in former Soviet Pact countries that were practically colonized by Russia for maybe half a century. Now imagine if instead of half a century, it was hundreds of years and 5 times as brutal.
Fun fact: The term "colony" comes from Christopher Colombus' name, which is Spanish is Cristobal Colon. Even the term colonization derives from a European.Apparently, that was incorrect.tl;dr: Europe got to where it is by destroying the rest of the world while blaming the rest of the world for their issues. Their critique of USA is merely a distraction from their own responsibility.
European racism is out of control to the point of cringe. The new world cannot hold a candle to you.
Here is a quick example. Netflix released a Norwegian movie called "Christmas as Usual" (translated). It essentially takes the concept of the American 1967 film "Guess Who's Coming To Dinner", moves it to Norway and gives it a holiday twist. According to Netflix, this 2023 film was in the Top 10 in thirty countries. How? How is a movie concept from America's peak civil rights battles era working for you in 2023?
My wife is European and my largest clients are European with European staff and the abundance of casual racism is hard for myself and my staff to handle. Don't get me started on my family in-law.
EDIT: Europeans were definitely not ready to hear this one. LOL
Agreed. We have been sold xenophobia by our politicians and media for longer than America has existed.
Your point really doesn't land. Netflix released a movie? Okay... And?
Makes more sense with this context.
I still don't get it. Why is a movie's success with an anti-racist trope an indicator of racism?
Because it should be a non-issue and not an impactful or driving feature of the film.
That feature of the film moved the status quo in 1967. It seemed like that was the point.
If a film were released in America today that pushed interracial marriage as an issue, most would find it racist because it is not a large issue in the greater culture (for the most part).
But I thought the movie only has a similar plot to this 1967 movie, which only featured interracial marriage in a positive light. Does it actually focus on interracial marriage? Because so far nobody has mentioned anything objectable.
Oh damn it's all the way to cringe? Now that's serious lol
Rapidly approaching can’t even status
Wikipedia describes the origin different, so maybe the parallels were not intended:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_as_Usual
You misunderstand. I don't mean that it was a remake, just that it was the same concept. I think the term is "trope".
The fact that the Norwegian film is based on a true story just makes it all so much worse.
I think you are missing the context of the film I used as an example. All the friction and the "comedy" in the film comes from the racism. From the start, it is the point. The taxi driver picks them up from the airport and asks the main character if he is from India. When he replies yes and asks if the driver if he's ever been there, his reply is no but he stopped in Turkey once. The when they arrive the soon to be mother-in-law assumes that the Indian boyfriend is the Taxi driver and the driver is the boyfriend. We are five minutes into the film at this point and it goes downhill from there.
That is just one easy to digest example using media. Our real life daily interactions with the staff from our European clients is a never ending source for more.
Nah, your example is just shit and that the new world cannot hold a candle to us is fucking insane, y'all just re-elected Trump ffs. We definitely have a racism problem in European countries as well but our Trumpian party in Germany is currently polling at 19%, which is awful enough but to claim that it's that much better in the US is fucking nuts. I'm in a multiracial marriage myself and while my wife experiences racism in Germany, it's to a somewhat similar extent to the US
The scary part is that this racism is very alive in German politics right now
What does the movie have to do with anything? Your in-law?
Hopefully someday we'll learn to be more like USA police and judicial system.
That soccer is boring. I'm european and love playing soccer but it's boring to watch.
That's pretty much all sports IMO
Can we get a sample of your username?
...a sample? Like, you want to whiff farts orrrr?
No, a little soundbite. What accent is it? French?
Aah, I see. Well, it varies based on what I've eaten. I ate maple sausage and scrambled eggs with cheddar cheese and chives for breakfast so I guess it'd be an American fart?
I'm afraid I don't have one in the chamber though, so no farts to share.
Basketball comes to mind as a pretty good spectator sport. But I agree for Baseball and American Football at least
except sumo and rally
There's no soccer in Europe ;)
Only futbol.
I think that's just sports in general. I enjoy playing almost all sportsball games. I'd sooner watch a Pong Livestream than watch 99% of sports.
Volleyball is pretty amazing to watch (and play too)
Sitting volleyball is kind of ok.
The greatest spectator sport is curling 🥌. I'm not even joking.
Well that's just it; it's not boring, but watching it usually is. Professional sports was a mistake.
Soccer is at least barely enjoyable.
Not like those cycling races that take 5 hours with nothing happening in them.
OK now this one I agree with
Soccer is fine. It's the flopping which makes it unwatchable.
Bro you are a full grown fucking man in the prime of your life and you just spent the last minute rolling around on the turf screaming in agony but now you're back at 100% for the next attack?
The game really needs a rule which requires any player who goes to the turf for longer than 10s to get a sub or serve a 60s penalty.
The US is not a mono-culture and most of us (unfortunately not all of them voted) are against most of the things we as a country are ridiculed over.
I swear, replace "US" or "Americans" in some of the stuff Europeans are posting/commenting with any other country, and those would sound xenophobic AF. But somehow, because 'Murica, it gets a pass.
It's kind of funny because if you go look at the reply about soccer, several people are like "that wasn't the Europeans, that was the brits!"
It's the same thing here with different states doing different crazy things ... Not that we also don't do some stuff nationally that's crazy, like electing a certain felon, but ya know
The UK is literally not in the EU. Florida is literally in the US.
Isn’t the UK in Europe though? The statement was about Europe, not the EU.
Yes
The amount of people who equate brexit to the UK leaving Europe and not the EU is ridiculous
Europe is nothing other than a geographical location, western Russia is also in "Europe", but surely you can see how this is not the same as the US, which is not a geographical location but a specific political entity?
People obviously don't judge Venezuela for what the US does and vice versa, so why include the UK in discourse about EU?
Iirc I assumed you simply used Europe as short-hand for EU, kind of like saying America but you really mean the US, because otherwise the comment makes no sense at all.
This thread is about soccer, homes.
I mean including the UK in any soccer/footbal related discussion is just unceccesarily cruel to the UK so may as well leave it out.
Lmao I'm in the wrong thread 💀
That now makes more sense ha ha
Also I’m kind of confused how quickly you’re giving the UK the cold shoulder. It was in the EU for 47 years and has only been out of it for 4 (less than a tenth of the time), and yet you seem really quick to dismiss it and what it may or may not have brought to the EU. Why is that?
The UK was giving the rest of the EU the cold shoulder for most of its time in the Union. Not willing to switch to the Euro, not wanting to join Schengen.
Not sure if you are British, but even though I would be happy if the UK would join the EU in a few dozens years, I also understand why people feel a bit cold towards the UK in the context of Brexit.
If Europeans looked at states like countries it’d make more sense to them. Hell it almost is with the size of states vs counties, the amount of land and the fact that every freaking state still has its own set of laws that may differ.
True, but even then each state isn't even a mono-culture. I'm as guilty as any when it comes to stereotyping states (particularly Florida via "Florida Man") but I'm trying to get out of that mindset myself lol.
Wyoming is a monoculture. It's too small of a population to be anything else.
/s
This is a widely recognized principle: kicking those above is OK, kicking those below isn't. The US is the most powerful country in the world, its culture dominates the globe, and celebrates that fact. So they are OK to kick.
So Europe acknowledges that USA is superior?
Close the thread, we got 'em
Even within States, there is a diversity of culture. Looking at Louisiana, the New Orleans area is highly influenced by French history resulting in Cajun culture, while the rest of the state is generally Southern. Florida is similar to Ancient Greece and its city-states in that the metropolitan areas have their own culture. But even within the southeast metro area, Miami and West Palm Beach are culturally quite different. Even more zoomed in, consider the Bay Area (Frisco). The Haight-Ashbury district is commonly considered the birthplace of the hippie movement, whereas across the bay is Oakland, birthplace of the Black Panthers. Both were quite progressive yet at odds with each other due to cultural differences stemming from race.
We can zoom out and look at cultural differences across the country within the same racial group. For example, there's the famous East Coast vs West Coast rivalry in hip-hop that is so real, it resulted in the murders of Tupac Shakur and Biggie Smalls. Even within the same coast, New York hip-hop, such as Busta Rhymes, Jay-Z, and Wu-Tang, is noticeably different from Atalanta hip-hop, such as Outkast, Missy Elliot, and Ludacris. Even as static as race is, white rapper Eminem is often included in Black culture.
Within the White rural sphere, we can contrast Upper Peninsula Michiganders (Yoopers) with their major influence coming from long harsh winters to the Appalachians who are known for being culturally isolated, having a mistrust of outsiders and a history of conflict with mining companies. Then, we have rural white people from West Texas to Nevada that are influenced by the Wild West period and local native cultures. Even within that, Texans are much more conservative with social matters whereas Nevada has legal gambling and prostitution. They way I make sense of culture in the US is that it is an overlapping area of varying fields that interact with each other so that even direct lifelong neighbors can have have vastly different cultures.
I don't think I have to explain that obviously, this is the case in Europe as well. E.g. Germany alone has 16 vastly different states, and each state has multiple subcultures. The main difference is, our subcultures are more than a thousand years old, and the US 250.
Hey hey, don't forget about China lol. 'Oh you're Chinese? You must be brainwashed AF. Lemme teach you a few things about 4 June 1989.'
Most Europeans still have a casual sense of arrogance and superiority over the rest of the world. It's not very heavy, but it's there, even among some of the best people I know
French food is wildly overrated, as is Paris.
European car manufacturers largely suck ass, I'd rather buy a Hyundai or a damn Nissan than some French or German piece of crap.
It's not just the US that has bland restaurants and/or is afraid of spice.
I've been to restaurants in the Czech Republic, Germany, Poland, Austria, and Bulgaria.
I'm sure there are places that spice things up more and some of the restaurants were really good, but some were also some of the most bland food I've had at a restaurant.
It's the same thing in the US; there are places that won't put any spice on and there are places that will leave you crying the food is so hot and everything in-between.
Also every "Mexican" food dish I've had in Europe has just been bad. Y'all are doing it wrong.
Spicy food does not mean good food or more interesting food, eastern European food is almost never spicy but it's almost always really good and hardly bland as most westerners would cower in fear at the sight of some marinated fish or some such.
I used to live in Japan, and let me tell you, a lot of typical Japanese cooking is unexpectedly quite lightly seasoned. I don't mean all food, but especially common things like rice and fish dishes.
It lets you taste the food itself more than the seasoning. If you start with good ingredients, you don't need to dress it up as much.
Yeah the western dichotomy of "bland" and "spicy" is only an accurate representation of their own view of the world and has little to do with the truth.
Nah, Japanese food is definitely better to my taste. Korea has kimchi but idk what else is even notable. Chinese food is trash.
Worst offender in my experience: the Dutch. I actually think their way of "seasoning" is to actively remove any natural flavour from the ingredients. They have the best Indonesian food outside South-East Asia though. Also, the Nordic Countries do a lot of things right, food is not one of them.
Yes, I read that a lot from Americans. I don't think Europeans care much for Mexican food because there's mostly no cultural connection to Mexico and no Mexican immigrants (Spain might be an exception). The rare Mexican restaurants you'll find in Europe are there for the American soldiers stationed here. Basically, when in Europe, go for Arab, Asian, or African food if you don't like the local food.
Yeah, the number of mexicans or mexican restaurants in Europe is very low, so each one doesn't have much competition to incentivise improving.
I had some pretty terrible Thai in Poland, so it's definitely not uniquely Mexican food 🙂 That's just one that I've had a few more encounters with that was more consistently bad.
Fair point about the cultural influence; it's probably less cultural influence than number of immigrants (and the US definitely has a lot of immigrants from asia and Mexico). I live in Ohio, so I'm fairly far from the border, but the Mexican food still ranges from "pretty good" to "fantastic."
Meanwhile finding like good French, German, or Belgian cooking, even in areas with historic immigration from those areas in decades or centuries past is quite difficult.
Even more traditional "early European American immigrant" food (like chicken and noodles, mashed potatoes, corn on the cob, mush, turkey, roast beef sandwiches, etc) can feel endangered outside of Amish country, family kitchens, and large chain restaurants that do it badly.
Where in Europe? In Spain there is a large Mexican community, I hope they make it somehow right.
Care to share some of the dishes you tried?
Generally the cuisine in those countries isn't spicy, but does not shy away from herbs and pickled anything. However we've been plagued by overpriced, tourist trap bad restaurants here, and Covid just made it worse.
I do echo that Mexican restaurants in Europe that I've been to are bad or meh at best. I've never been to Mexico and I hope the restaurants are owned by exiles who fled the country hunted by pitchfork wielding mobs, infuriated at how bad the cooks were :D
Probably varies depending on where you live. I don't even live in a big American city, but we do have access to a wide variety of restaurants including very spicy ones (they have non-spicy options of course, but there's plenty of places that serve spicy dishes from all over the globe.
And on the other hand I don't get the obsession with putting so much spice into your dish that you can't taste the ingredients. "Seasoned" does not automatically mean "so much chilli pepper that it makes you sweat".
First time I hear this stereotype lol, I've only ever heard it about European countries (basically all of them that don't border the Mediterranean)
Greece. Food is usually good, but spice is a totally foreign concept.
And Mexican food in Greece is hilariously bad. Like they can't even Google a picture of nachos?
Butter IS a spice and it is delicious. 😉
This sounds delicious. Can you send the recipe? 😉
GDPR is great, but we all hate cookie banners
The sound from my portable bluetooth speaker. But that's mostly because it's a shitty speaker and you can barely hear it when it's sitting 3 feet away let alone when there's at minimum an ocean between you and it.
France, Germany, and Austria all have a military-industrial complex problem. MIL money might not dominate their politics the same way as the US, but there is a problem there.
Even with their post-WW2 defensive militaries, Germany and Austria are perfectly ready to sell military hardware to anyone with the cash. H&K, Glock, and Steyr all hail from those two.
France sold off the Exocet anti-ship missile to just about anyone. As far as I can tell, it has only been fired in anger at the boats of other NATO members. Thanks, France!
Your cops are bad too
Not Eurpoe specifically but I shared a rather basic comment on YouTube joking about Great Britain causing famines in India but its okay because they brought trains and the result is a mile long thread of pissed off UK suckers telling me I'm wrong, that there was no fammine, the Wikipedia article and its 300 sources are fake, and that the British empire totally went around modernizing civilization for the benefit of humanity. (Was a post about Irish complaining about a very crappy Irish History book made by a British author)
So I guess for any of those people, no GB was just a colonist empire racing to exploit the hell out of resources faster than France, Spain, and Portugal. The technology they brought was used almost exclusively in their conquest operations (Trains used to transport goods and resources) and they actively supported and supplied opposition groups to destabilize and overthrow governments similar to what the USA does today.
I mean seriously, they held immense power over China via opium and are responsible for practically every shill state in the middle east because they provided weapons to overthrow the Ottaman empire.
The iconic pan arab flag is actually a British designed flag given to all the opposition groups they funded to break up Ottaman power.
They fell apart after exhausting their power in WWII and the USA came in to save them so now they gleefully cheer about how they carried in WWII with intelligence services as if Germany couldn't have easily invaded the entire nation overnight had Hitler not been an incompetent moron.
Thankfully, after exploiting half the world, they totally didn't spend the last of their power screwing over every former colony into some long term problem that they could exploit without the need for military power.
EU collaboration and integration is a joke. Politically, the EU is divided and bizarrely complex. There are movements to improve this but they are not as popular as the sloganistic alt right that essentially just want to give up and go back to separate countries
Yeah, we Europeans have to figure out how to work together better, because that's the only chance we have of being independent from countries like Russia, China (or the US).
I spent three weeks in Belgium twenty years ago studying the EU's structure, with a lot of time spent on the "Constitution" treaty that failed in 2005. The professors were all generally in favor of it, so maybe they overstated its benefits and definitely overstated its chances, but it sure seems like it would have helped.
Also, the pea soup at the university canteen was surprisingly good.
Many of us I the US want to come there, and we're willing to contribute, but the barriers of entry are too high. I likely won't be able to until after retirement and that probably won't be until I'm too old to move. And I have a lot to contribute if I could find a way to get on my feet. The US doesn't allow for building enough wealth to start a business right out of the gate, unless you're already born wealthy or get lucky and are willing to be exploitative, and in that case I could use a different visa to get in. Immigration isn't all welfare cases and even with those who do need that help having a system in place to allow then to contribute while they get on their feet would benefit everyone. Dump the idea that you need to be extreme capitalists like the US and start embracing the people who need help to get started and most of them will contribute significantly as they will be so prideful of the place that took them in.
Youtube always shows off all the progressive and positive aspects of Europe. Bike lanes, relable trains. Was so jealous. Then heard that my game buddy is off to manditory milatary service.
The idea that the government can take away a year of your life, and thats normal is still a tough pill to swallow.
Many of your economies strive cause they stolen loads of values from us.
Apparently soccer is offensive even though I grew up in AYSO. i got in the habit of calling them association football and gridiron football, respectively.
I thought the corruption of the leagues and the fanatcism of the US is bad and scary. Then I learned about FIFA. i had no idea.
That Europe is not ready for many future challenges.
Not sure if we're not ready to hear this. The whole world is not ready for many future challenges.
For example?
Extraterrestrial warfare!
According to movies the aliens always attack the US anyway so I don't see a problem.
And the quantum flux plague of 2036
Ok, I'll stock up on it.
Not the cheese!
The inability to function under duress would be one
Refugee crisises far larger than the ones that have been tearing you apart for the last 15 years
It's aluminum. Y'all just changed it to aluminium so it sounded like other elements. Which is even funnier because not all elements end with ium despite that being the main reason for the change.
Well for one thing, there is that one obvious thing which Americans and everyone else are also unready to hear: You need to give up fossil fuels. No more coal, no more gas, no more petrol, no more diesel. Some parts of Europe like to think they're well on the way to that goal but even there for the most part you've barely begun and are moving too slowly or in the wrong direction (e.g. biofuels). The hard part cannot be put off for much longer.
people being angry at nuclear and wanting to go back to coal are the worst
I'm sad for what's happening over in Germany
Why's that?
Because otherwise, a horde of raiders in spiky leather armour will cross the radioactive wasteland, roll up to your place and rip your arms off.
EU institutions are just as regulatory captured as everywhere else. The EU bureaucracy is horribly inefficient with tons of unfirable "human drones" making 2x for the same role one does in the the private market, where they just do 1/10x of the work. The only reason EU is not quite as corrupt as USA is ironically because all the competing rich fuckers of each nation are competing with each other's lobbying
The American South equals the European East
The question should read
"Americans; give us your baseless opinions of a continent you don't understand, and then get a rage-on in the comments when you are laughed at"
It would be wise of them to stop relying on everyone else.
Popcorn munching...
We have popcorn in Europe too?
Just me :p
It's called: "soccer" !!
Europeans: call a game where you kick ball with foot "football"
Americans: call a game where you throw ball with hands "football"
One of these makes more sense to me... :p
Europeans came up with the word "soccer" as a shortened form of "Association football" to distinguish it from the numerous other forms of football being played (rugby etc).
So, it's your fault anyway.
It was not Europeans. It was the British. And it was the upper class British. Specifically at the Oxford University. The people in both continental Europe and Britain always called it football.
"Soccer" is technically a slur for lower class football.
Even the British call it football now, but the soccer slur still lives on in America and other colonies.
"It wasn't Europeans, it was this group of people from Europe."
A small group of people from of a single country does not represent the entire population of the continent.
The sentence "Americans say 'aloha' instead of 'hello'* is just as right or wrong.
Good example
America: I'm not seeing the issue here.
:P
My brother you need to look at a map once in a while or resit your geography exams 🤣😂.
It was the Brits. Europe refers to a collection of countries.
the uk is also a "collection of countries".
Yes, and as far as I’m aware it’s the collection of countries that created the term Association Football. Could be wrong though.
Brits are Europeans, so the statement wasnt incorrect
Europeans when it's positive, individual culture subset when it's something bad.
“Europeans” is too vague. Why would you refer to Europe like it’s one country?
to get engagement
NGL I kinda forgot about rugby, fair point
And we've since corrected our mistake.
that message may come from us or canada, the rest of the world would side with europe
OK, so this may shock some, but my posh English school called football 'soccer'. Football was what most people would call rugby. Cricket was... Cricket.
Probably. I hated all of it and still do, so I've no idea what they said in the pub.
Most nations of the world refer to the beautiful game as football, or a derivative thereof. Then there’s that one nation…
😄 Thank you. Obviously not what I was referring to, but still a point.
In Japan the most common term is sakkā, that came into use from US influence after the war. Both futtobōru and football is in use, though.
Italy has to be Italy :) And Juventus Football Club plays calcio, so while they do have their own awesome word they seem to be on team football ;)
Ah yes, Australia
hand egg! :p
soccer is an abbreviation of associated football. which apparently had rather upper class implications in the UK and as such the word never caught on with the hoi poloi
Commas are for separating thousands, periods are decimal points. Stop trying to be unique, you're not.
Some of the takes are okay, to be fair they're not from Europe
i eat with bare hands
The hills are alive with the sound of music
The Europeans have had -many- centuries longer to screw -everything- up in -every way- and then, eventually, regret it. A bit. So, like most of us humans, who learn most lessons the hard way, they have finally settled on something they can live with ... and they call it civilization. With pride.
Amongst those living there who don't know all of that history - like most humans - they assume that things got that way reasonably. And brag about it as if it was true.
Unlike the middle East - which has had -millenia- longer to learn - and which was, is, and it seems always will be, screwing everything up in every way. While they all point their fingers elsewhere. And build very large monuments to survive them.
Laicite is illiberal. Leaving aside that it explicitly favors Christianity over other religions, it still violates human rights, specifically free expression.
Don't even get me started on the church taxes in Germany.
buy and large Europeans are much more racist than Americans. in america it is not at all uncommon to have a ton of different races (I'm from a small town in Texas and we had a lot of Mexicans, black people, and a couple different Asian races (yes there are different ones)). that's not to say every European is racist and it's not to say that none of us are, but European countries tend to be much more homogeneous than the us and as a result tend to be more racist.
I believe everyone is ready to hear anything, they might get angry but that's just the nature of stupidity (since we're on the internet I think I should specify that angry≠disagreeing and vice versa)
I don't think your prompt makes much sense
The state of Western Australia is bigger than all of Europe.
Europe is a continent, not a state. While the European Union exists, its members are very different.
“Why do you call it ‘football’ when they use their hands?” is the least original, least funny joke you could possibly make to an American. Also, there are more kicks in an average American football game than there are in an average rugby game, and you guys call rugby “football”
Not everyone wants to live in some EU places because those areas are too densely packed. Vienna has been voted the most livable city many years in a row, but most residential areas I saw were filled with apartments, condos or townhomes.
If war breaks out between NATO and Russia, Europe hasn't kept up enough military power to hold the Russians back while waiting for America to come bail them out. Their countries are gonna get hardcore trashed in the process.
The Euro is just financial imperialism, whereby powerful Eurozone countries get to control the economies of weaker members.
US doller?
And yet those weaker countries (a) want to get into the EU and (b) don't want to leave it. Absolutely nobody is forced to be controlled by France and Germany.
The Euro also brought some positive benefits for its citizens, no longer having to pay bank charges all the time for conversions between francs, lira, marks and so on. Which arguable was the original point, rather than some kind of imperialism.
Most of the world dislikes you, and are not happy when they run into you on the internet. Mostly because it’s been almost 600 years & y’all still haven’t gone home.
Yall need ac. Get with the fucking times bro. Every summer yall just dying over there. We aren't fixing global warming in this lifetime just buy an ac unit
I hear the FDA actually controls American food in a much healthier way than European even though the opposite is commonly thought.
Europeans can definitely be much louder and annoying than Americans.
Europeans can be more racist, mention muslims or Romani people.
European democracy is just as bad.
What do you mean by this? Because when I look at lists of banned substances and why, or pesticide limits, the EC seems much stricter than the FDA.
I don't know enough to speak effectively to the overall point, but the banned food additive list and is only a microscopic portion of what food regulators do
I was thinking of food additives and giving animals antibiotics
Lol, Europe spanks us on both those fronts.
Have you got a particular country in mind or are you referring to EU elections?
As an European, I think the obscene amount of lobbying we allow to happen around EU institutions is something that makes "European democracy is just as bad" sound reasonable.
I’m referring to the general trend in voting for far right candidates
You are badly misinformed on this point.
Which one he made 4 points
Yes.
Evidently that one
Not this one?
Definitely not that one. Are you insane!
Yes
What are you smoking? We don't even have corn syrup in our soda or chlorine in our chickens, no putrasene for chocolate, in Europe we don't even know what tums are which seems to be a common thing to take in the US. We have chemical food dyes but just because they're chemicals - as is everything - doesn't mean they're bad.
I do agree the politics are shit though.
Yeah that was the implication. Our food quality just doesn't necessitate this sort of stuff.
to be fair, if youre arguing about the effectiveness of agencies like the FDA, im not sure that this is really relevant. You can make greasy, sugary, carb laden food out of the safest, purest, most well researched ingredients without any additives and it will still be an unhealthy diet. The FDA cant reasonably mandate that people have to eat their vegetables after all, at least not and actually expect people will listen to them. Im not saying that the FDA actually does do its job better or worse, I dont know that, but I feel like food quality in the sense that an agency like that can control is more a "does this stuff contain toxic ingredients" rather than "does the culture of this area like a well rounded diet".
I'm general or just in certain topics?
I’m particular thinking of my time in southern Spain lol
The first and the last one are simply not true, the second and third, sure, sometimes
More chemical food dyes are allowed by the EU.
Which fascist did whatever EU country vote for this term?
But their regulations are more strict overall. There are a lot of US foods can't be imported without reformulating the product.
Bruh, we literally just elected a fascist felon who tried to overthrow the government when he lost the last time who openly surrounded himself with fascists pushing project 2025. It's not even a close challenge...
Cognitive dissonance at its finest
I’m not saying the US didn’t vote for one of two fascists, but the EU is as well.
People voting for fascists ≠ bad democracy.
The democracy in the USA is bad because you have a two-party system, meaning that there's barely any choice. In the Netherlands, we have a whole bunch of political parties that share space in Parliament, so that representation is proportional to the votes.
As a result, we have both the PVV and GL-PvdA in Parliament; one is very right on most subjects, the other is pretty leftist.
Muslims hated us first though and some of them (that currently live here) want to destroy our civilisation in favour of their barbaric medieval religion, and their continuing growth causes me some concern about when there are enough of them around, and someone has started a sharia party, and all the imams go "you must all now vote for sharia" how many of them will follow that decree (and how many non-muslim useful idiots will too).
Not enough concern for me to start hating or discriminating against them on an individual basis, but everyone's different and some are further down that road than I am.
Sometimes, while seeing discourse about the US, I think our region should try to better align itself with Europe, that stronger connections and cooperation could benefit us both.
Then I see how Europeans get when our name comes up and it's no wonder we're calling China instead. Sure, they don't care about us either, but at least they put on an act and we might get something out of it rather than just racism and neocolonialism.
Really, I'm steadily approaching the point where I wouldn't mind much if you all nuked each other out of existence, much like you wouldn't care if we disappeared either. In the absence of names, no such thing as friends beyond borders.
You all need to just start making English an official language across the EU. Yeah I know that's very American imperialist of me to say, but most of you speak it already anyway and it would make travel and communication so much easier. It feels like you all are insisting on speaking different languages just to pretend you have unique cultures when let's be real, once you welcome McDonalds that ship has sailed.
European and UK universal healthcare is able to exist in it's current form and at it's current cost because the US has private healthcare.
Healthcare Companies give heavy discounts to UK/EU to make extra money, they are fully funded by US payors and thus patients. If US healthcare went public and it ate into profits, and other countries run low on healthcare funds (the NHS, right now), private insurance or more likely, increased taxes, in those countries may be required. The NHS is already considering pay-to-play models.
Note: This is a simplification of lots of details around the international transactions and legislation.
Note 2: Before disagreeing, pick a pharma company and look at their annual report.
Note 3: Clarified form and cost based on an astute commenter below.