Spyke
asklemmy·Ask Lemmybyjeze64

Why is Facebook still so insanely popular?

I read "it's dying" by people on Discord and Reddit all the time, but the numbers prove otherwise. It's been going up this entire time and sitting over 3 billion MONTHLY ACTIVE USERS!

I feel like the bubble around people on other platforms saying "who uses Facebook anymore lol" is kind of wild given the numbers. Keep in mind these are active users not just abandoned accounts.

View original on midwest.social
sbv
sh.itjust.works

I live in a rural community. Facebook has more or less replaced the web here.

Businesses post their hours, specials, and information on Facebook. Some of them don't have websites. The rec centre has a hard time keeping their website up to date, but the Facebook group is always accurate. Newspapers have closed down, so a Facebook group keeps people apprised of what's going on (it seems to be pretty accurate, since everyone in town is part of it, people involved in events chime in). Kids and adults sports groups advertise and tell their members what's going on via Facebook groups.

It's a shitty medium, since the Facebook algorithm mixes trash advertisements with town-specific events, but it seems to suffice for the town's needs.

I suspect it isn't just my town. The network effect is strong, so I suspect there are niche communities where Facebook is verging on ubiquitous.

260
boyireply
lemmy.sdf.org

to look at it objectively, if you don't use the service you're simply not part of the demographic targeted by the business employing by that service. That's mutual.

43
Anticorpreply
lemmy.world

It's lazy and stupid to host your entire company's online presence on a for-profit proprietary platform.

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Otterreply
lemmy.ca

It's lazy and stupid

Another way to say the above would be "simple and easy". Which is why it's done by a lot of small businesses that don't have the expertise (or the funds to hire expertise) to do something better

If it's a small town hardware store, it's easier for them to manage a Facebook page that they can access using their regular Facebook account.

64
Anticorpreply
lemmy.world

Good luck to them when Facebook starts throttling their views and demanding money for more exposure. And good luck to them since they don't show up on Google or yellow pages sites, nor have a website listed on Google maps. Like the other person said above, plenty of people will just do business elsewhere.

12

Instead of just doing W analysis, why don't you learn SWOT analysis instead. It will water down your bias.

11
ramble81reply
lemm.ee

Businesses are in the business of running their business, not worrying about FOSS principles and the open web. They can set up a quick information front without having to pay for a webmaster, hosting space, server space, an ISP to handle all that traffic, etc. So why would they care or want to spend the effort otherwise at their size?

27
ramble81reply
lemm.ee

What part of “they don’t care” are you having trouble wrapping your head around? They’ll either live with it, or move to another platform that’s easy to use.

IT is not a core competency of most businesses and their goal is to minimize time to deploy and effort on parts that are not core to their business. If it means spending slightly more then so be it. It’s the “build or buy” problem and since IT isn’t their thing, “buy at the cheapest price possible” is gonna win every time.

7

Most small business need all the business they can get. But if they don't care, then that is on them.

-2
halvareply
discuss.tchncs.de

This is real funny because you can get throttled by big corporations even if (or rather especially if) you're self hosting pretty much the same way

1

I have never once had one of my websites throttled, and I've been building websites for 20 years.

0
lemmy.world

Yeah I found out the same when I moved back to Iceland. Buying a used car? Renting an apartment? Staying up to date on the parents groups in school, kids sports, any events by any business or group? Contacting any person?

Being forced to hand over all my personal information just to do any of the above really doesn’t sit well with me 😑

63
jqubedreply
lemmy.world

It sucks that you need to give them anything, but you don’t have to give them everything, and depending on what information the people you’re interacting with see, the information you give Facebook doesn’t necessarily need to be accurate.

10

There's much more info about you up for grabs if you use facebook.

2
lemmy.dbzer0.com

This. In the west among the younger generations, sure, Facebook is outdated/dead. Among other generations, and across much of the world, it is still almost as essential as email.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook_Zero

A criticism also stated that Facebook is practicing digital colonialism because it is not introducing open internet but building a "little web that turns the user into a mostly passive consumer of mostly western corporate content”.

An article by Christopher Mims in Quartz in September 2012 stated that Facebook Zero played a very important role in Facebook's expansion in Africa over the 18 months following the release of Facebook Zero, noting that data charges could be a significant component of mobile usage cost and the waiving of these charges reduced a significant disincentive for people in Africa to use Facebook.

To me as a kid with a rudimentary phone and little pocket money, this was also how I got onto and used to access Facebook.

35

Kind of reminds me of what AOL was trying to do in the ’90s. If it wasn’t for broadband Internet coming directly from telecom services they might’ve succeeded, too.

12
subtextreply
lemmy.world

What else would you call it? It’s them trying to be the face of the internet, the only internet these people know.

4

Something less dramatic and hilarious probably. Maybe manipulative business tactics.

1
Anticorpreply
lemmy.world

This is infuriating to me. The Internet gave every person and every company a completely blank slate from which to represent their identity. A slate owned by no one. Then everyone voluntarily decided that's too hard and moved everything over to the god awful site that is Facebook. Ugh.

29
lemmy.world

Facebook is the closest thing to the Chinese concept of an everything app that the US has.

19

I'm almost a pariah in my rural area because I refuse to have a Facebook account or an iPhone.

Gotta be something wrong with that boy, Martha.

18

Yup niche communities is spot on. I’m into disc golf but most of the community news and local club updates still primarily occur on FB. This is also an extension of suburban and rural community popularity.

8
lemmy.world

I have never been a Facebook user so I'm mostly guessing.

But I think there was a heyday where people spent a great deal of time on there.

Now they don't. They just log on when it's needed to get ahold of someone or check a specific niche community.

Thus it's dying because the ad revenue is way down. It's in decline not because it lacks users, but because they no longer spend hours there.

132
Rhynoplazreply
lemmy.world

This sounds accurate to me. I have an account, and there are certain people that I use Messenger for, but I haven't updated my status or shared anything in about ten years.

47
aussie.zone

That's the same boat as me.

Messenger and nothing else for 9 years now.

Reddit killed Facebook for me when i started getting banned for memes etc

Then reddit killed reddit for me

7

I started a facebook account in 2006 and stopped using it a few years later. I still have an account but only look at it maybe 2 or 3 times a year.

I hate when I have to log in to find a business though. It 's infuriating.

And I hate reddit with the glare of a thousand suns.

2
Rivenreply
lemmy.dbzer0.com

I also wonder what they consider an active user. Would logging in through Facebook to play a mobile game count? What about just logging in through Facebook on any site to get an account on that site? I know I probably check my Facebook once every 3 months to check up on fam but other than that I don't use it.

26
bl4ckbloocreply
lemmy.world

My brother is in the ICU right now, and everything is being co-ordinated on Facebook. It’s how we are letting people know updates, and how we get a hold of people.

Facebook is really the only social media platform that lets you find people somewhat easily from their name.

23
jeze64reply
midwest.social

Statistics show the average person spends far more time on Facebook vs other platforms though.

Source

16

I'm not sure that's a good source. It's combines a bunch of different sources, and the one for Facebook itself combines a bunch of other sources

2
Anticorpreply
lemmy.world

Ad revenue is up, because they've replaced the feed with 98% ads and sponsored posts. You can't even see what your friends are posting now. It's disgusting.

8
Anticorpreply
lemmy.world

It doesn't load. It shows like 0-1 post and then just spins endlessly. I know there's content they could show, because I've checked.

1
lemmy.world

works fine for me on desktop website and android app. Not sure what's going on with your computers/accounts. 🤷‍♂️

1
Anticorpreply
lemmy.world

I've viewing it from the website on my phone. Before you might suggest it, no, I'm not interested in the app.

0

Firefox and Pixel 7 Pro. It doesn't load on my desktop either, also using Firefox.

0

oh, and to add: friends feed doesn't have suggested posts, and fbpurity blocks sponsored posts/ads, so on desktop I get a super clean feed with zero spam, junk or anything like that. It's amazing. It's like 2010 again.

1
lemmy.dbzer0.com

This. It's horrible and outright unusable. I used to block each and every "recommended" post/page, after a few weeks they stopped appearing so frequently.

3
Anticorpreply
lemmy.world

I tried that, but there's a million more to take their place. A couple days ago there was an ad for a game that was a completely naked woman with her legs spread open as the picture. I reported it and Facebook said they've reviewed it and determined it doesn't violate their community standards, even though exposed nipples are explicitly stated in their standards as a violation. There was an option to request further review and I tried to do that, and of course the submit button was disabled and broken because a trillion dollar company cant even be bothered to build a functional website. I'm fucking done with that site. If I can't even look for content my actual friends posted without being assaulted with pornography, then I'm done. I wish they'd crash and burn like the dumpster fire they are.

6
lemmy.dbzer0.com

The point isn't so much to actually block all the garbage, that's impossible, but to suggest to the Facebook algo to show you less such stuff.

I've also seen people getting semi-pornographic adverts on Youtube, so your experience sounds entirely expected. Putting everything else aside, it's "funny" how any other smaller independent website or a user on these major websites can and will be sanctioned (the user getting banned, the small website gaining a negative reputation) for hosting/posting pornography, but when a major website shoves pornography right into your face (and probably minors' too, which is unambiguously illegal) nothing can be done, there is never any sort of uproar or criticism, I doubt you could even report it to some authority...

4

I don't think it's dying at all, it's still very popular across the world.

7

I would agree with this. I recently removed Facebook all together but prior, I would only scroll my unseen and log the F out.

4
feddit.de

A lot of users are also from poorer countries that lack the means to create their own web infrastructure. Using Facebook to run your business account is easier, cheaper, and more reliable than most alternatives there. Phone carriers and ISP often also have "free"-data for certain social media platforms. You get 1GB+1GB for Facebook/IG/YT/Some Game. So you are stuck in this loop where everything reinforces itself to use Facebook.

69

This. Also, FB invested heavily in many of those countries in order to drive up its growth back in the mid 2010s, exactly to ensure that, once the internet finally became widely available for those people, "everything" would be on FB.

I suspect the majority of those users are from SEA countries.

21

This! I'm from one of those developing countries and using Facebook is a necessity at this point since everything and everyone is in that platform.

9
  1. It’s established
  2. It is a general purpose platform: it has personal posting, business listings, messaging, groups, communities, photos, news, clip format video, live streaming, p2p sales, business sales, event coordination and advertising, payment processing and cash sharing, games…
    Most other platforms do one or several of those things much better than FB, but FB is good enough for lots of people. It’s a one stop shop, and it does a fair job at cross pollinating the various aspects of its platform. It has enough stuff to keep to keep users engaged even if their interest wanes from one or more particular platform components.
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lemmy.dbzer0.com

I literally have to use Facebook to know what's happening in my small community. It's the most convenient place to learn about what's going on and I hate it

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discuss.tchncs.de

Many overseas countries have Facebook preloaded on a lot of their phones. They also have data caps but Facebook is exempt from counting towards their data cap.

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Mr_Blottreply
lemmy.world

overseas countries

Isn't that every country? What does that mean?

17
lemmy.ml

My phone came with Twitter and Facebook preinstalled. I installed LineageOS.

0
lemmy.world

Facebook was extremely aggressive in getting their software preloaded on all hardware sold in developing areas over the last 20 years. So countries like India (with one and a half billion people by itself) have a large segment of users that think Facebook is the internet. It's Zucks ultimate walled garden.

3 billion of those people likely access Facebook for everything that we think of as online. Commerce, social networking, music, videos, it's all on Facebook.

42

I remember that, about a decade ago, Facebook including free access to their services on cell phones in India; there was concern and pushback about creating this walled garden monopoly, obviously to no avail.
My guess is that is why many memes from India from back then involved screenshots of the older generations using Whatsapp as a sort of social network, the subcontinent's own version of "ok boomer" humor.

9

large segment of users that think Facebook is the internet.

This really hurt to read somehow. I mean you're right, but it's still shit.

2

So countries like India (with one and a half billion people by itself)

Also old people use Facebook a lot here. It was their first social media and they have settled on that. There are some set of people who are switching to Instagram day by day but the rate isn't any threat to Facebook.

1
lemmy.world

I hate that Facebook marketplace overtook Craigslist because I have a bunch of shit to sell and don't want to log into my Facebook account to do it.

20
sopuli.xyz

There are so many scams on FB marketplace, it is awful. I tried giving away an old lawnmower and only got people trying to scam me. Or pay them to come get it.

No, I am not paying you $30 to pick up a still running lawnmower.

16
lemmy.world

This is when you list it up for money and let them haggle you down to free so they think they got out like a bandit.

11

I just got rid of an Ikea bed and mattress for free on there, so not all bad

2
lemmy.world

If it's under 50 lbs just sell it on eBay. Way less hassle, unless your account is brand new, then you'll have a bunch of scammers trying to message you.

5

That might work for a couple things but I've got furniture that's not nice enough for a consignment shop and is upholstered so Goodwill won't take it.

Once yard sales start up in the spring I'll probably drop them off at one and tell the folks they can keep whatever they get for them.

5

I hate FB marketplace, I've stopped buying and selling anything. People don't show up to buy something, people forgot that they listed something when you contact them.

2

Craigslist did it to themselves. It was the same old site and whatever annoyed you about it today was what annoyed you 8 years ago. It was full of bots and bad actors and anything beyond buying and selling items was pointless. Go apply for a job? With what a company that was so cheap they posted it for free? Dating? Here are a thousand bots, scammers, and sex workers to choose from. Local activities? Oh look the Karens are racist. Rentals? The price you pay is not the price listed.

2

Lotta people keep Facebook for the marketplace.

Also, a lot of scammers make accounts to use for the marketplace.

The marketplace fluffs the numbers.

37
lemmy.world

There are plenty of people for whom Facebook may as well be the entire Internet. Not just demographic groups but entire countries. It's definitely in decline with the demographic that uses Reddit, Lemmy, and discord -- but several billion average users don't disappear overnight

37

Yup, in many of the world's poorer regions Facebook has partnered up with cell phone providers to provide free access to the Facebook ecosystem and a limited number of other sites but not the general internet. This means for instance that if someone posts a newspaper article you can't even check up on the source without incurring extra costs. For millions of people Facebook therefore is the de facto Internet experience.

https://theconversation.com/facebooks-free-access-internet-is-limited-and-thats-raised-questions-over-fairness-36460

30

Hobby groups. Marketplace. Business page for companies. Everything except its original purpose of keeping up with the lives of your real life friends.

It's dying in the sense that no Millenials really uses Facebook the same way we did as when it first started, and most Gen Z would treat having a Facebook page to be a completely alien concept.

People moved on.

37

Because people have those family members who insist on doing everything on Facebook Messenger, and that Signal or even fucking Whatsapp is too fiddly for them. So everyone ends up with the lowest common piece of shit network, and it counts them as active users whether they actually use it or not and just happens to be checking for messages in the background.

34
lemmy.ca

It was years ago, but I used to work for a US based ISP. I'm a Canadian and the place I was working at had a contract to suppliment their support team.

My team did enhanced support, beyond what the ISP would deal with. Basically it was remote geek squad type service for people's computers.

While I was working there in the mid 2000's, there was a Facebook outage. All of Facebook's services were unavailable. We broke records with how many calls we got that day. Almost all of them went something like this:

Client: "the internet doesn't work!" Tech: can you open a browser and... Client (interrupting) "it says page cannot be displayed!!11" Tech: I understand, can you tell me what it says at the top in the address bar? (Insert some explaining of how to find the address bar) Client: "facebook.com" Tech: okay, I want you to click on that and erase it, then type in google.com, hit enter, and tell me what the page says. Client: " it says Google, with a (some bad description of a text entry field)" Tech: this is Google's website, it loaded from the internet, so your internet works. Facebook is down. Client (without missing a beat): "can you fix Facebook?" Tech: No. (Call ends)

I'm certain my employer made bank that day, since clients had to pay an extra monthly charge on their internet bill to speak with us, and their support made a point of dumping calls to us whenever they could. If someone wanted to speak to another tech, sure, but you have to buy this service....

I did not like that job. I actually got a call from an inexperienced Linux user who couldn't get DNS resolution. I tried to coach him over the phone to determine if his internet was working at all. Before I could actually give him an answer, my manager dropped by (he was monitoring the call) and told me to tell him we could not help him, that the support center only supported Windows based systems, since, out of everyone there, I was the only one with enough Linux knowledge to know what to do, and he didn't want to give anyone the impression that we could help with Linux.

All the guy needed to do was change his resolv.conf to valid DNS servers and he would have been fine. It doesn't work that way anymore, but it did at the time, and I knew it. I did not feel good getting off of that call. It's like, I have the answer, this guy needs the answer, he paid to speak to me, and I really want to help him out, but I would probably lose my job if I do. I was very blunt with him. I said that I could help him, but I wasn't allowed to. He understood, but I still felt like shit. I was too timid to realize my worth, which was part of the reason I was there to begin with.... Now, I would have just made it clear that he'll only get help on this once, and when we hung up, never expect to reach me again, and that nobody here knows what I do about this stuff, then helped him anyways. Fuck that manager. I'm so glad I don't work there anymore.

34

That last paragraph made me sad... It was the most emotional comment Ive read in a while

3
slrpnk.net

I finally deleted mine the other day. No goodbyes, no fanfare, just dumped it like the garbage it is. No regrets.

28

In most of developing countries (Africa and SEA) is free and dosnt require an active internet connection, so literally everyone with an old phone has access to it

25
lemmy.ml

I live in Morocco. I keep leaving Facebook for months but I end up going back there even though I don't like it at all. The reason is that all the people I know and all local content is available only through Facebook. There are hardly any Moroccans on the Fediverse, I've only seen like one other person in all my years of using Mastodon. If I wanna see what's going on in the country, the city and anything related to the region then I am obliged to be on Facebook. I suppose this is the case with most developing and non-english speaking countries.

24
crazyCatreply
sh.itjust.works

Yes definitely the case, I see the same in the Philippines. Other side of the world I know but similar reality. Countries like these where it dominates adds millions upon millions of users.

8

Also from the Philippines and I don't know anybody else that use Fediverse aside from myself. Heck, nobody haven't even heard it and only a couple knows about reddit and discord. Literally everybody uses Facebook for everything and facebook messenger for messaging other people.

5
lemmy.world

And even better question is why people still treat the twelfth most popular social media platform like it's an indispensable town square?

24

Because people treat it like it's an indispensable town square.

This place is chock full of idealists and techies, it's easy to lose track of exactly how much sheer "inertia" and habit shape people's tech choices. And that's assuming there is a choice at all, maybe you either Facebook up or junior isn't going to any activities, nobody knows what's up in the neighborhood, people will either be harder to contact or (partly understandably) look at you like an asocial weirdo, etc

7
MrMakabarreply
slrpnk.net

Because Twitter is a very different service to all the bigger ones. The limit on the length of tweets means, that the messages posted have to be to the point, hence they are easy to quote by news of all sorts. That attracts politicans, CEOs and somewhat celbreties to the site, who want to be in the news and it becomes a self enforcing cycle. The eleven larger ones focus either on direct messaging like WhatsApp, Telegram and so forth or have none text media as their dominant form of content like Instagram, YouTube and TikTok.

4

280 chars for the free version and 4000, when you gift money to the Technoking of Tesla(the real title of the Musk)

0

I don't know anyone who thinks that or ever has. I doubt it's gaining any new users anyway. It just that the people already there are stubborn to leave. Me included.

2
lemm.ee

People don't use Facebook, hence you find them on other platforms. They may be thinking that if they don't use it, then nobody does.

But you also have to consider where these people live. It might be "dying" there, while Facebook is getting new users in other markets. I remember watching a video about genocide in Myanmar and the role that Facebook played. Access to Facebook was free if I recall correctly, it was the internet for most people.

It'd be interesting to see data by country.

24
jolreply
discuss.tchncs.de

It still boggles me that there still isn't a good popular plarform to look for events near me like facebook. Why doesnt imstagram instagram have this? Or even WhatsApp, that would be so much more useful that the crap stories they added, who cares about that?

5

Yeah but it always left so awkward. People have to sign up for it just for the events, and for that there's plenty of services. I mean having a service where your friends already are also have a list of events. The "in going" feature on Facebook was genius for that.

3

I sometimes think of myself as tech literate, then I realize I have absolutely no clue how to navigate Facebook, Twitter, or Facebook, no clue how to find a specific thing I'm looking for, or to get a post noticed by people.

1
lemmy.world

I still have it because it's still the easiest and most convenient way to message people that you've just met. There's a sort of snowball effect in which having lots of people incentives even more people to stay on the platform. Nobody I know actually uses Facebook as a social media site - they only use it for Messenger.

Although, I've found that more and more people are starting to use SMS as their first choice rather than Messenger

21

Yeah I just tell people I don't have social media (which save for Lemmy and Discord is true), and we exchange numbers. Nobody I've run into has batted an eye at this. I think people really are coming back around to texting because it's easier in a lot of ways. An exception to this is trans people, femme in particular, where being on Discord is so ubiquitous we don't even ask if the other person has it we just assume it's their preferred chat method...

6
Ziixereply
lemmy.dbzer0.com

Hot take, in places like eastern/central Europe it's better to use SMS over RCS or iMessage, I don't care that I can't pin an emoji to a message or a texting indicator is not there, I want it delivered and not with the overpriced mobile data goddamnit

2
Gethreply
lemmy.dbzer0.com

This is news to me. Everyone I know just uses WhatsApp or Facebook messenger or even telegram. I haven't sent a sms in years and only received from banks or telco operators.

3

Yeah, it's pretty much favoured towards Facebook messages and/or WhatsApp, but I'd gladly use SMS over those two (or hell even RCS, not possible with some stupid people in my class, which bought an iPhone in the last two years, not to mention we had (and technically still have) a recession, which means that buying an iPhone is the most fucking stupid thing you could)

1

Yeah - I do find it odd when people say Facebook is dying, because it really isn't. Unless Zuckerberg pulls a Musk anytime soon, it isn't going anywhere - unlike Xitter, Facebook is an advertising juggernaught that makes more than enough money to keep itself afloat.

And that's not even mentioning Facebook groups, news pages, business pages, the market place, etc.. they've got fingers in many different pies, and it shows.

And even more, while it may not be popular amongst tech savvy folks, it is still insanely popular amongst regular folks. I for one can vouch that a significant proportion of my non-techy friends use either it or Instagram as their primary social media.

Hell, that's why messenger is up there too - everyone has Facebook, so everyone has messenger, making it extremely convenient to message people you know. It's certainly why I use it a lot, it's where my friends are.

Meta dominates social media even now - just look at your list. Of the top seven, over half of them are Meta.

19
Crikestereply
lemm.ee

A quick Google shows Reddit with 38 million users. That is fractions of even the LOWEST on this list.

Fuck yeah lol

14

Now, consider how powerful Reddit is/used to be, especially in quality human generated resources (jokes, answers, commentary etc) and realize networks exert power in different ways from just numbers. Numbers matter, but in very different ways.

11
lemmy.world

It's probably because people on Discord and Reddit aren't fully reflective of the wider world population.

The same goes for Twitter. It's losing users, but there are still lots of them.

They're popular because they offer something to its users. It's truly as simple as that.

16

Not just that, but the people that more quickly kump ship are the ones that are more tech savvy and click less on ads. So i bet facebook actually is more profitable now per user than when everyone was using it.

9

There's literally countries in the world where their phone plans don't support Internet access other than Facebook's walled garden.

Once you establish an institutional presence it's hard to lose market share even if your product sucks.

14
tal
lemmy.today

I don't use it, but I would assume because if the people you know are on it, leaving it means that you can't talk to them.

Social media is an example of a type of system that benefits from network effect; the value rises as something like the square of the number of users. That is, there's value in using the system because other people use it.

Systems that benefit from network effect are going to be pretty hard to shift people off of.

In practice, it's probably not really the square of users -- most people don't interact with or even have the realistic possibility of interacting with billions of people. But they do interact with "pools" -- not an official term, just something I'm making up here -- of people that might be a subset of that. Some might be friends and associates, the sort of thing that hovers around Dunbar's number, maybe 150. There might be a broader pool of people with similar interests that one might interact fleetingly with, a broader pool that speaks the same language, etc. And once a lot of people in such a "pool" are in a given system, it increases the value to an individual a lot, because those are the people that the system lets them speak to and lets them hear. If you leave for a competing system, you give up connectivity to all the people in that pool.

That creates a collective switching barrier, and a potent one. The point of social media is to communicate; if nobody else uses it, it has essentially zero value.

There's also an individual switching barrier created by UI familiarity -- that discourages anyone from using a given system, isn't really specific to social media, but it explains why anyone would tend to want to avoid switching away from a system that they are familiar with, all else held equal.

In the case of social networks like Reddit, a moderator might have built up personal reputation and a userbase for their particular group. I don't know how Facebook group moderation works, but let's say that it works the same way as on Reddit. If you switch to a Facebook alternative, you lose the status, plus the network effect from that particular group. That's another individual switching barrier.

In the case of social networks like Reddit, which use pseudonyms, you accrue reputation associated with a pseudonym. I know a handful of pseudonyms on the Threadiverse that are knowledgeable or trustworthy. That gets zeroed out when you switch a network; people lose both the status and the knowledge of the reputations of others, don't know who to trust. There are ways to deal with that particular one, like having a bot that everyone trusts that tells a new Fediverse account to send a particular random comment, waits for a Reddit account to send a message and then endorses a particular user on the Threadiverse as also being a user on Reddit. But...if you look at the Fediverse today, it doesn't have a mechanism for that. And if people running social media like Facebook or Reddit discovered some kind of process like that, they'd probably have an interest in shutting it down, doing what they could to disrupt that transfer mechanism. That's another individual switching barrier.

The combination of all of these switching barriers makes it pretty tough for someone to leave, and it's one reason why social networks have value -- because you're getting your hands on information about and access to a large userbase that will have a hard time switching away.

I don't actually know if there is some kind of alternative that aims to do the same thing that Facebook does. Reddit isn't it, and Twitter isn't it, though they do do some vaguely-related things. But, okay, let's say that something like that exists.

It's really hard to get a person to switch, because if they do so in isolation, they smash into the switching barrier associated with network effect.

And because you have to have everyone do this at the same time, you have a collective action problem. You propose that everyone switch from Facebook to -- for example -- Fedibook on the Fediverse. If everyone switched concurrently, nobody would hit the barrier to switching from network effect. But...it's hard to convince everyone to do so. Maybe some people are sick or busy that day and don't want to put the time in at the same time. Some people aren't going to want to do it -- they aren't going to want to put in the time to learn a new system and build new workflows around it, maybe learn new client software. It's like switching from Windows to Linux -- someone may have put many years into learning Windows, and that's experience that in part goes away if they switch to Linux; for them, that's a large individual switching barrier. Some percentage of people feel, based on a quick assessment, that the individual switching barriers above dominate, make a switch from Facebook not worthwhile even if they are willing to participate in a mass concurrent switch. Maybe some people think that Fedibook is technically-superior to Facebook and would have used it if each had 0 users and were put side-by-side, but don't want to deal with trying to coordinate a concurrent switch. And because you can't get a simultaneous collective switch going due to those reasons, every individual user thinking about switching is going to face the big collective switching barrier -- being cut off from lots and lots of other people.

14

Very insightful post.

It's interesting to see that the European Union will start to force interoperability of some networks // applications // protocols. This makes it for instance that people who use WhatsApp and Signal messengers can communicate. At least a step in the right direction it seems.

1
laverabereply
lemmy.world

You joke but Lemmy is at the same point as Reddit was when they first started. Reddit just IPO'd at 34/share, up to 68 now. 12 billion USD valuation.

I think Lemmy has a lot more potential than most people think it does... The idea is laughable, but so was $12 billion reddit in 2008 . Not in monetary terms, but in how information could be communicated throughout the world in 20 years.

12
LordCromreply
lemmy.world

Reddit lived because DIGG died. Or at least it got a bump in the right direction

5

It looks to me like "social media" breaks down into a few categories: Video/image sharing (YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, Douyin, Kuaishou); Messaging (WhatsApp, WeChat, FB Messenger, Telegram, Snapchat, QQ); Microblogging (Twitter, Weibo); and tangled fog of pulsating yearning (Pinterest).

Then, there's Facebook, which defies easy categorization. It does all of the above, plus more. It's how people maintain loose connections with other people that they may not talk to every day. What is its competition? Basically, I think it remains popular because it's the default, nothing else can replace it.

12

Because non technically savvy people get comfortable and it's always difficult to get them to move, so everyone who wants to change, can't because they end up alone and social media only works if you have people to be social with. Younger people will have the same problem with TikTok and the like when their friends age and they want to move. Only new generations start with a clean slate and can get all their friends to start out at the new sites.

12

It took almost six months for my best friend to notice I deleted my account. ;(

6

A while back I remember hearing "dying" was only accurate in the West, but that was a matter of years ago so it may or may not still be true.

11
lemmy.world

This says nothing about how much they use reach platform though. Just logging into Facebook and checking what's up over a month will count here.

People don't really delete their facebook account. Just keep it around. And at one point I'm pretty sure everyone had an account.

11

This is my wife.

She visits once a month for about fifteen minutes because her aunt and uncles only use Facebook to keep everyone in the loop about things like their cancer treatment or something else.

She's in this image.

6
XM34reply
feddit.de

Even worse, I think I'm part of that number because I've unsuccessfully tried to delete my Facebook Account three times now. But every time I check in to make sure it's finally been deleted, it's still there. I'm at the brink of suing them for a GDPR violation at this point. F*ck Facebook!

4

I also assume it counts bots too (which over 80% of Twitter users are)

2
lemm.ee

3 billion monthly active sure sounds a little excessive. I wonder if there's some shenanigans going on, combining other facebook's services.

11
alekwithakreply
lemmy.world

Jane Doe has a personal account, two business accounts, a page she set up for her dog, and a secret account for affairs. There are five monthly active users right there.

17

But that could be the same for other social medias two, I have 2-3 active YT accounts

3

Where I'm from. Facebook is free of charge on data connections on some Telcos.

That's why almost all people with data connection, whether pre paid or post paid are most likely using Facebook.

12

Does those number include people that only use the account with other pages widgets? Like "access with your Meta account" and shit like that.

11
lemmy.world

Because that is where the regular people are and I for one won't be bothered to try convince them otherwise because I know it is futile. I'll just check in every now and then to keep in touch with them and that's why I'm still there.

10

This is it. Lemmy users are completely unaware of the extent to which they are not like normal people.

8

I use Facebook. I am not in touch with very many of my relatives. The few that I am in touch with are all on Facebook. I also live a significant distance from pretty much all of my friends and that's a way I can keep in touch with them. On top of that, my brother, who is on the spectrum, prefers to communicate with me that way. In fact, I would probably never hear from him until my mother died if I didn't because he's never called or emailed me.

But... here is how I use Facebook: I only follow select friends and relatives who aren't too annoying- which means following about 10-15 people and unfollowing all the others, I tell it every time I see an ad I never want to see again, and I am only in groups that are either small and personally significant to me (like the group for my relatives) and a couple of others that I mostly just look at and don't participate in.

No arguments, no political unpleasantness, nothing that makes me angry or upset unless something bad is happening to someone I care about, and honestly it's not unpleasant. I think I've maybe blocked three people the entire time I've been on Facebook and all three did something personal to me offline that made me decide to cut off contact with them.

Sure, they're hoovering up my data, but so is everyone else.

10

It fulfils roles as

  • first place - as some sort of virtual home
  • second place - as you can conduct businesses in it
  • third place - as people congregate in it

It's large enough that any amount of enshittification is compensated by network effect.

10
Ahmed?reply
lemmy.world

I dislike like Facebook as much anyone on here, but I don't think people who use it are morons. Better off not using though? Sure.

1

Are people who smoke smart? Sure, they can be smart in other places, but smoking isn't a smart thing to do.

1

More at just how civilization is in a self induced death spiral.

OBEY. CONSUME. CONFORM.

1
lemmy.ca

I'm in Canada, and I'm pretty locked into Facebook for a few things:

  • Marketplace (other buy and sell groups, finding contractors/handymen)
  • Events (parties and such)
  • Promoting my band
  • Group chats (Facebook is the platform that has the maximum overlap between people just being on there, not everyone has an iPhone, or is on WhatsApp, or is on discord, etc)
8
  • my extended family is also on it, but not on any other platform.
  • I know it's super trendy to hate on their functionality- but they have date and posttype filters, silo'd searching per posttype, calendar and event functionality, threaded comments, and repeat for posttype with communitytype and event type... which insta, whatsapp, discord, Twitter, reddit and tiktok don't have
5
jeze64reply
midwest.social

People always talk about WhatsApp but no one in North America uses it.

1

WhatsApp is very common if anyone in your inner circle is international (as in lives in another country, not just from there). My family still uses it for our group chat bc one of my siblings used to travel a lot and live overseas, and we’re all American.

I have other friends from other countries who use WhatsApp to talk to people back home, but they also use standard messaging apps for talking to people here.

6

In some countries, cellular companies still charge for sending text messages to people who have a different provider. WhatsApp is an easy way to connect with all of the people you know without paying extra fees.

And there's a whole customer interface that lets you order directly from small businesses, which is super convenient if you live in a country that still has a lot of "mom and pop" stores instead of giant superstore chains.

3

Yep. It was easy for me to get rid of WhatsApp. Facebook Messenger, not so much

1

I use it because it has what I want.

It has my local community group who discuss ideas and plan events. It has my mother's group who only use Facebook messenger to communicate. It has my extended family who live overseas. If I left and asked them to send me pictures I would only get a few a year, this way I see pics every week.

Do I hate the idea of it? Yes. Would I like to delete my account? Yes. Is the trade-off worth it for me to stay? Also yes.

8

I have and sometimes even use it. Most important reasons: some interest groups stuck on FB (at best they move to Instagram), and my municipality posts their news/info there. Sure they have the official notifications but the really useful stuff is on FB (and I hate it, though I also get why)

8

Network effect. That's why we need to keep the fediverse alive: so futur generation aren't forced to signed into Facebook, Discord or whatever would be (or would have been) trendy.

8
njm1314reply
lemmy.world

Yes, I would have actually expected the exact opposite.

2

Females are an overwhelming majority on Instagram.

2
gregorumreply
lemm.ee

active users, or just users with accounts they haven't logged into since the pandemic, when it became a cesspool of neo-nazis and anti-vax crazies?

3

that doesn't really answer my question

edit: any attempt to look into the background of Sprout Social or its founder/ceo, Justyn Howard, just leads into a feedback loop of Sprout Social marketing material-- very suspicious. Until i can get something from a reliable and independent source about who they are and why i should trust what they say, any information from their site is AFAIK untrustworthy.

7
lemmy.world

I wonder how many of those active users are people who only use messenger because their friends use messenger. Or people who have auto login turned on and click a link from search results.

Monthly active users is a fairly deceptive metric for a social media platform because ANY activity can count you as an active user and Facebook has massive reach.

7

Messenger is accounted as a different thing on the graph. Which to me is surprising that anyone would choose that pile of crap to talk to anyone.

4

I'm one of those people. I'm only using messenger, but since I message people from desktop (and I don't want to install their client, they know enough about me already), I still have to log in to the base Facebook page. After a while I started using the Feed Eradicator plugin (or what), but unfortunately I still have to log in if I want to be able to message my acquaintances.

Why am I still using Facebook messenger? Back when most of the users were still unaware about their practices, all of my friends and family joined and now it is their main way of communication. There's no way everyone important to me would just start using a second social media platform for me. Also, I can't make calls from desktop WhatsApp (which could still have a chance to become a substitute for most of the people I know). Anything else is just too niche for most of them to install for the sake of one person. Or three.

I wish there was a good practical solution because I'd prefer not being part of this ugly machine, but until then, I'll have to stick with it.

7
sh.itjust.works

I didn't even have an account when I lived in France because only old people used it, and I didn't understand the billions users figures either.

But since I live in canada I need facebook to do anything, everyone uses it. If I want to get in a bar, they ask me for my Facebook to check my age. When I get a package I only get notified on Facebook. News by my school are only published on Facebook...

6
t0frreply
lemmy.ca

Where are you in Canada that you need Facebook for so many things?

8
Wahotsreply
pawb.social

Must be the east side. I definitely would have heard of this if it was Vancouver.

2
t0frreply
lemmy.ca

I've never had this experience for age verification and package notifications in Montreal. Seems super bizarre

1
ByGouroureply
sh.itjust.works

It's in a mid size city, I guess culture is quite different in Montreal. And of course for age verification I could use a passport or ID but Facebook is common for this.
For the package notification it's how my building works.

1
t0frreply
lemmy.ca

Ok, not really ideal that. Will the landlord just not want people that don't have Facebook as tenants?

2

I've never met anyone without Facebook here, so I guess it's usually just not an issue.
(Which sucks, I don't want Facebook).
I recommend shelter for android for those who do not want this spyware.

1

It is. Also fun fact, I am 50 yo on Facebook, and I have no issues getting into bars and clubs with it despite being 20 xD Nobody ever noticed

1

Bunch of useful groups for expats in $country there. The only dedicated platform for expats is internations, and that's so full of scammers and people dedicated to pitch a sale, it's not fun at all.

6

You aren't going to want to hear it, but it's the only social media still around that's actually useful in some way.

5
  1. Network effects - “my friends and family are on there”
  2. Switching cost - “if I leave I won’t have all my photos and albums I spent so much time organizing”
  3. Social / specialist communities - Facebook is still far and away the most popular place to find groups of people organized around VERY specific things, from hobbies to life events (my wife uses Facebook exclusively to access a group of people specializing in moving from the US to a specific country, and we’ve gotten a lot of resources from that)
  4. Facebook marketplace
  5. Nostalgia
  6. Business info and communication. Lots of live music is nearly exclusively organized on Facebook.
  7. Community info sharing - Facebook is a “one of many” approach groups like governments and NGOs use to communicate to broad audiences. It’s still a great place to get info and stay on top of things.

I think the era where people use Facebook exclusively to keep up with Aunt Shandelle or Cousin Pablo or your mother-in-law Sharon are over

5

This is location specific. In the mainstream US FB use is down among youth and because of that it is has gone down among older adults. FB marketplace is still pretty popular and so is Instagram. So even in the US Meta is doing okay.

Internationally, specifically Latin America, Europe and SE Asia, Facebook, WhatsApp, Marketplace are effectively the most popular way to communicate on anything.

WhatsApp is basically the phone, Marketplace is in some places the only way to find real estate and just about anything else. And Facebook is used by every business.

Meta internationally is raking in Ad money in the billions and billions. People have been convinced that their privacy is worth less than the convenience and utility. Because for them there is no better alternative. In addition in some of these cultures the idea of privacy is a foreign concept.

5

Because it isn’t just people posting what they ate at Texas Roadhouse yesterday.

Is still use Facebook quite a bit. I have multiple hobby, local interest, and work-related groups I participate in regularly.

Local businesses post open hours there when Google has it wrong.

Local events are easier to find and participate in.

I probably make 1-2 posts on my own timeline a year. Facebook has transformed (at least for me, and I heavily curate what I see) from a “connect and stay in touch with friends” or “post everything you do” place to being somewhat more like Reddit.

I also recommend (on desktop/Firefox) Facebook Container and Social Media Fixer Plugins. Best damn thing that I ever added to FB was Social media fixer. Just add the filter “recommended for you” and so much garbage is immediately removed from Facebook.

Also, people that say “Facebook is dead” only means that maybe they and a couple of their friends don’t use it - or at least don’t admit it. Not that their anecdotal usage has any bearing on the actual state of the company.

5

Facebook is the only company with a server at both the North and South Poles. That gives them the liberty to have longer months due to time dilation, which lets them "technically" inflate their numbers.

/s

5
lemmy.world

It has to be a lot of that. probably a lot of accounts that people use for stalking. also, i know quite a few old people that have at least 5-10 accounts due to the amount of times that they have forgotten their password/been hacked.

I know I’m only one person, but I personally know many people around the world that never use it. There’s no way that 40% of the world has an account on Facebook, let alone logs in every month. I deleted my own account last month.

3
jeze64reply
midwest.social

Accounts sitting untouched due to lockouts wouldn't be counted as active. Also Facebook added the ability to create alternate profiles tied to your main account so multiple accounts haven't been necessary for some time.

3
lemmy.world

Yeah, tell that to my Aunt Martha and her new account each week. Also, I think you might be overestimating the capabilities of the left side of the intelligence bell curve.

-1
jeze64reply
midwest.social

Your aunt isn't making a new account every week. Also locked out accounts aren't active so that's irrelevant.

1
jeze64reply
midwest.social

Goes against my narrative? Must be astroturfing! Give it a rest, mate.

1

This. Bigger number means more investor interest. What's the motivation to count active users accurately?

2

Groups and marketplace really. The only reason i even open facebook is to buy and sell car parts & check out other peoples setups. Offer up sucks in my area, craigslist is dead, marketplace has everything. & outside of car specific forums, there really isnt a lot of places to talk with local people with similar interests.

Im suprised youtube isnt higher than fb though.

5

There's zillions of them, but the graphic says monthly active users. Unless there's a zombie apocalypse going on, which would actually explain a few things.

4
lemmy.world

I think it is still extremely popular in Southeast Asia. At least here in Hong Kong, there are so many business still relying on Facebook so people just can’t move away easily

5

It's like that in the USA too. Most businesses use Facebook for their "website."

1

I think part of the reason too is that older/boomer populations have ever only learned to use Facebook as their sole social media, which makes sense because they can connect on a platform they understand with old high school friends and distant relatives and old coworkers, etc. They don't tend to use Twitter, and while they might use Instagram a little, I don't think they're really interested in photos. More like weird recipes and Minions memes. That sort of cements in a very large user base in my opinion.

4

old people like their bigotry and conspiracy theory echo-chamber. it's the only place they can spew that garbage after their kids cut contact with them.

4

It's the one place some of my family can figure out how to use where they can make a transphobic joke about Mother's Day for men in dresses is April 1st and get enough positive interactions that they think they've actually re-posted something relatable and clever. So it does have that going for it.

3

Change requires energy. If you're fully invested in surviving and putting food on the table, there's little left to explore change.

3

honestly to me it feels cozy now relative to how shitty other platforms have gotten. i guess it was always leading the way at being shitty, so it doesn't feel like as stark a change (reddit, twitter)

3

I'm not sure I believe these numbers. I find it hard to believe that more people use Facebook than YouTube. There's something like 70 hours of video uploaded every second to YouTube. That's just uploads. From what I've read in the past, YouTube has almost always been the most used site in the world, being only briefly topped by tiktok.

3

because people use. At the end of the day FB and other social media sites are about talking to and connecting to other people. Since lots of people us FB it makes it an easy way to connect. In other words, it is popular because it is big and it is big becasue it is popular.

3

How do they define monthly active users? If I never post anything, but log in every couple weeks to see what my friends are up to and maybe like a few posts, am I counted?

3

I imagine that would count as an active user. Just any login or site visit probably counts though.

5

I don't feel like looking it up, but I've heard statistics like the Breaking Bad finale had half the viewers of the average episode of CSI Miami. The general lesson is don't underestimate the average person's appetite for garbage.

3

It is absolutely atrocious to use and constantly tries to ram Algorithmic crap down your through. The thing is, most normies are there and for every person who is Internet savvy enough to see the benefit of Mastodon and Lemmy (and Pixelfed, etc) there are a dozen normies who don’t and can’t be bothered finding out.

I would not say that Facebook is popular, but I will say that it is common. It is literally the Lowest Common Denominator for port of social interaction on the Internet.

3

Given that that's a third of the world population, I think they may be misreporting their users. Meta has been caught boosting numbers artificially before (when they released Threads they gave everyone who had an Instagram account a free Threads account, and then bragged about how fast their social network was growing).

2

It's worth remembering Meta (Facebook at the time) spent a lot of money making it free to use Facebook on data plans across the world.

2

I own Meta shares have not used FB for 15 years or more. The shares have done well for me.

FB is excellent at leveraging peoples ignorance and haziness.

2

Yes i am a "monthly" user of facebook. I log on about once a month as the strata for my building foes basically everything through facebook.

I look at it like internet explorer a few years ago, it has its claws in everything and its just easier to keep using than for people to find an alternative that satisfys everyone.

2

There are 7.9 billion people in the world. Only 5.4 billion have any level of internet access. This includes people living in China where Facebook is banned. 3 billion is such a high percentage of all possible facebook users that I have to assume the numbers aren't all that accurate. Maybe "active" just means they haven't deactivated their account? Or maybe they consider bots to be people?

2

Facebook marketplace primarily for anyone I know that still uses it. Also people having messenger as their sms app and not knowing the difference or using their Facebook account to sign into every other website and games. Don't forget every Instagram and WhatsApp user is pressured to link their accounts too. Meta makes parasites seem friendly and helpful 🙃

2

Messenger no longer integrates SMS. It was dropped some time last year or even earlier.

2

IMHO popular culture is not popular because it's the best, it's because of some combination of corruption and being the "lowest common denominator". Popular culture is cultural detritus and Facebook is a prime representation of it.

2

There are some countries in Asia like India, Bangladesh, Philippines etc. where population is exploding. People of these countries prefer Facebook over other social media. Most of them are unaware of other social media and Facebook is replacement of all other social media sites in these countries. From political agenda to tech forum to dating site everything.

2
weeeeumreply
lemmy.world

Separate Chinese version tiktok, because tiktok itself is banned within China.

6

Ahhh yes i remember now, the educational version or whatever? Been thinking abt checking it out for a while xD

1
lemmy.world

Several of the services listed on this graph are not social media.

1
Chozoreply
fedia.io

A lot of the ones you're probably thinking of have a useless "stories"-like feature now, which qualifies them as social media.

1

Man, I sure miss the days when "social" meant you socialized. Now it's all just "Look at me, look at me! Validate me!". I realized reading through this thread that I hate what the internet has become, and if the internet is a window into our society, then I guess I hate society too. I never imagined I'd become a misanthrope.

2

There really isn't a replacement for local stuff.

Nextdoor exists but it's not really any better since it's still a proprietary walled garden.

1
lemmy.world

It's the one place where you can have a group for free.

1

A group of/for what? There's Lemmy, discord, reddit, telegram, etc where you can have groups of people for various things... I haven't used Facebook in 15 years so I have no idea what's new.

2

I literally only still have my FB account until I can sell all of the stuff I have listed on marketplace. Every other aspect of my FB account was deleted years ago. At first I kept the account because of the broken promise of never requiring a FB account for the Quest. They finally changed that(sort of, they require a meta account instead), but I still kept the account for marketplace. It's the only place I've been able to successfully sell anything for at least 3 or 4 years. Once I sell off the last few items I have listed there(really need the money at the moment), I can finally delete my account fully.

1

Most folks never bother to delete their accounts, and it’s now one of the older social networks. It was also popular at one time among GenX, who got their Boomer parents to sign up so they could keep contact with their grandkids remotely.

There are far fewer Boomers on TikTok, and many GenX’rs have simply given up on trying to remain in contact with anyone they actually know.

1
lemmy.ml

The graph doesn't show it's going up. Ay source for that?

1

Your grandma and all your aunts and uncles and cousins are there, so there's a certain amount of checking for weddings and funerals.

The new restaurant on the corner has the menu on their Facebook page before there's a Google maps link to it.

Concert venues put their calendar, lineup, and set times on it

School districts and local communities post their snow days, park events, theater schedule, library events, stuff like that and it's easier to see that all in one place instead of going to each of their websites.

1

It's weird how much the media still cover twitter, given how increasingly niche it's become.

Also seems quite high. I did a google and apparently it's half the number and closer to 300 million.

1

It has to be, right? Are we that out of touch with normies theses days?

2

For me it's long dead. I only login there to answer the occasional messenger message, that one person sends who still use it. Once messenger adds cross platform messaging which EU DMA forces them to do, I will never login there again.

0
maxprimereply
lemmy.ml

Oh right. Wow that is surprising then! Maybe FB events.

1

I wouldn't be surprised if there's a large crossover of people who want to use Messenger but only access it through Facebook.

1

I'm pretty happy Telegram is there though. It's the step in the right direction when we talk about "better internet". Also never realized it's that big as it has yet to break through in my country.

0

I only had a fake Facebook account that expired. Why is it so popular?

-1