I don't want something that was crafted to my taste. I want something so irresistibly unique that it redefines my taste.
This really is the heart of the entire AI pitch; a world where everything is comfortable and familiar and safe and easy and fucking sterile. A world where you never interact with other people because your agents do it for you. A world where you read, watch and listen to endless generic slop tuned to what your tastes were at the moment that you froze them in amber and stopped actually living. A world where digital sycophants tell you how to live and dress and act and what to order at the restaurant so that your mind will never be troubled by a stray thought.
Fucking Christ, I need to go listen to Angine de Poitrine to get the taste of this out of my mouth.
Succinctly put. It is about individuation. I had been trying to figure out what started “the realities of ‘Fahrenheit 451’” and AI is it. People will start telecommuting in a room, like in that book using agentic AI, etc.
"personalised music" is like hearing my own opinion 24/7, sooner or later it will become an echo chamber. It's like create someone who can relate to you, it's unhealthy.
Oh I always took it as a version number, which seems fitting for tech bros. Like alpha version = buggy, not ready for the general public, use at your own risk
Unfortunately it's not only AI bros who want that. A lot of people nowadays feel attacked and become aggressive the second they hear an opinion that doesn't fit in their world view.
Society feels like there's a religious war going on but without religion.
You could have your own infinite Jimmie Buffett playlist! Cheeseburger in Paradise followed by Pizza in Paradise followed by Hotdog in Paradise followed by...
Whataboutism: A logical fallacy. The rhetorical practice of responding to an accusation or difficult question by making a counteraccusation, by asking a different but related question, or by raising a different issue altogether.
If you are treating all music like stock music or background noise, essentially a commodity that earns royalties, this applies.
But once you are even remotely interested in engaging with it as an artform the whole thing just falls apart, since there is nothing artistic, nothing intellectually challenging. Friction from being confronted with another sentient beings outlook on life is what makes most music worth listening to. It's an artifact of the human experience.
The trouble is that most people treat music like stock music or background noise. Most songs being played in the radio these days have sounded like AI way before the current AI craze.
I was listening to a song recently, and a suggested video popped up of someone singing it live, so I watched it, and it was full of soul and emotion. The singer really poured her whole heart into what she was doing, and you could tell she had stage fright but was pushing through it anyway because her passion for singing outweighed her nervousness. But none of the imperfections or mistakes mattered. It was a beautiful performance.
Then the next suggested video was the same song, but an AI-generated version. I was like "nope." Anyone who listens to the generated version instead of the passionate human performance is missing out. Also, it takes away views and/or revenue from the person who might be trying to make a career as a musician. So it's kind of evil in a way.
I remember immediately thinking "Do you realize how sad that sounds?" when I first heard this take in Adam Neely's video (said by the Suno AI CEO). That was because this would give me one thing less to share and talk about with other people and nothing new to discover.
I don't know the person from OP. As for the Suno CEO, what do you expect from a person who only cares about getting the biggest possible pile of money?
When I get in the car and Tupac starts rapping about how I am going to the grocery store, the bank, and the liquor store and narrating every little thing that happens along the way only to realize that he narrated my entire afternoon in song... I'll know it's time to stomp on my phone and snip my internet.
Music is the worst in this regard. Everyone has an expert opinion based on absolutely nothing.
It's fine. It's okay to have an opinion, but if you actually care about the art of music, all these conversations go like this:
"I like food too, you've probably never heard of it, and I can't quite explain how it's done, but it's much better than other food. I can just feel it, because I have a sense of tasting good food."
Here's the thing I don't think its even that, if it infinitely personalized to what I want then I wouldn't have ever gone out of my comfort zone and discover other types of music I now like.
I would just be listening to infinite greenday like some sort of corpopunk purgatory.
"Infinite personalized music" sounds like something from someone with no friends who share their music tastes. Music isn't purely sound, it's a social experience. The techbros are missing the point in just about everything, they're missing the forest because of the trees.
As someone with no friends in life I find this insulting. I would never dream of creating such bullshit. It’s not about having friends, those techbros live a life completely separate from that of ordinary people.
I'm pretty much repeating what you said but I really just felt like writing this down ^^'
Music tends to be shared with an intent for someone else to get something out of it. A kind of communication. When people are listening to music they begin to think about what the music is (or the artists are) trying to say, or what feelings or reactions they are trying to evoke. Sometimes that resonates a lot.
"AI" output generalizes everything. Instead of just getting a hyperpop song, you get something closer to the most median of all hyperpop songs (in the dataset). You end up with no particular meaning or direction, and very little feelings besides what the genre's general aesthetics are. Like a paragraph of text that only exists to be text, not actually meant to be read.
I chose hyperpop as example because artists tend to go a very specific direction; Usually taking a single element of pop music and heavily exaggerating it. Think heavy vocal manipulation, ambient audio design, sex appeal, or even the simplicity of house music. Taking the median of it all completely defeats the purpose.
Yes, good music sits outside of the statistical distribution of existing music. It is mathematically impossible (or at least astronomically improbable) that a model could ever stumble on it.
the social component to them is that they 'control' an enormous fleet of streaming listeners this way.
Inb4 "mind controlling tones" meets "who has a big pile of money for us?" Don't forget music has a power to strongly influence or even set a humans' moods, also on election days.
They say “AI isn’t going anywhere” all the damn time and I’m like. That’s for sure, this stuff still sucks just as much as it did in ‘22. This technology truly is going nowhere.
As a musician and composer, I will never ever use AI to make a single note of music, and will never listen to to AI music by choice. I want someone to put a little bit of their soul in every piece they create, just like I do.
BTW, Tidal offers a AI music switch if you don't want any of that crap to reach your feed.
As Mr. Ross once said, there's only happy accidents.
I'd take a good time, no drinking required, with a group of jolly folk making the most nonsensical sounds than I do with the monotone, self-pleasing notes of a machine.
You are in the minority. The fucking idiot in the OP is right; shit's over. You know how I know?
People are already not getting paid to make music. The best composers of our era work a day job in addition to their band life. There's very few that scrape together a living despite their enormous talent.
It's been fucking over due to pop music saturation for a while. The the vast majority of people already don't give a shit about the music they listen to or who made it. They just want mood music and don't care what context it comes from. That's why spotify has been pushing the "summer hits" playlists and the like.
This technology isn't aimed at YOU. The technology is aimed at the "average person", and the people that are stupider than that.
Is everything in your home artisan made? No; because you don't know enough about everything, nor have the resources to be able to get it from quality, artisan sources. Well, the average person when it comes to music, they don't have the capacity to "spend" mental or monetary resources to really pay attention to things.
AI isn't perfect, but for average and below average people, it's good enough and cheap enough.
I get what you’re saying, but I think it’s a bit pessimistic.
The average person and the people below are only 50% of all people. There’s a lot of us who absolutely hate and avoid this slop shit.
Making music has never been super lucrative for the average musician, and the era of megastars was ultimately a small blip in this history of music.
I’m a musician myself, but I don’t do it for the money, I do it because I find it fun and rewarding. I’d imagine most musicians feel the way I do (I know many musicians, even a few with smaller record contracts, and none of them can live just off of the money that make from music. They still make the music tho, because it isn’t about the money.
The most popular artists are by nature lowest common denominator, many of them intentionally so, because those people care most about the money, so they make the safest music, blurring the lines of art and business.
I don't know. I would say in my social circle there are 10 AI fanatics per every person strongly against LLMs. 20-30 per person if we include normies who just use LLMs casually and don't think about it.
And saying fanatics I genuinely mean believers that generate massive amounts of code, text, images, websites and other slop with LLMs on daily basis and brag how it skyrocketed their productivity and it's the best thing ever.
I have only anecdotal evidence to offer, but it is the opposite of your annecdotal experience. I have two large friend groups in two different locations.
In one of these groups there are zero AI fanatics, and about 2 or 3 who use it casually without thinking about it. This group is about 30-40 people.
In the other group I’m in has no one who uses it casually, but there are 2 AI fanatics (who also both work in the AI industry). This group is closer to 20 people total.
At my work there are about 30 employees, one of whom was a former fanatic, but is now just a casual user after realizing he was being lied to about AIs capabilities.
I’m just about middle aged tho, so I suppose there would likely be different saturation levels in different age groups.
I’m just about middle aged tho, so I suppose there would likely be different saturation levels in different age groups.
Definitely possible, my social group is college and adjacent, mainly liberal arts and computer science students and occasionally staff. Perhaps that's why I see so many AI people.
And thanks for sharing, it's always interesting to peek how different life outside of your bubble can be in ways you can't even imagine.
There’s a lot of us who absolutely hate and avoid this slop shit.
There's a lot of people who have the ability to have opinions and share them on the internet. There are shitloads more mute idiots , and not everyone who doesn't care about what their music is from is an idiot, so they are better than the "average" person, but they still indulge in this kind of crap.
I don’t think you understand what “lowest common denominator” means
Anyone who claims to enjoy music while simultaneously listening to AI slop bullshit is actually an idiot, and they are not better than the “average” person.
That's not the idea. The idea is "average people and lower don't care about music, so they put on any slop anyway. Also, people have distinct things they are good and bad at. You might have someone that's smart in a specific field, but because they are below average in their importance of music, they also won't give a shit either."
AI isn't perfect, but for average and below average people, it's good enough and cheap enough.
Yeah because currently it's been subsidized by governments and companies because they're trying to establish a market. They can't keep that up forever.
Why not? They managed to do the same thing for "cloud computing" and offer everything for free. That's why Whatsapp is the current communication medium by default.
Because it's currently being subsidized. Currently as an industry it's making negative money, it exists because it's managed to convince investors that there is a future in AI, a nice shiny profitable one. Eventually the investors are going to start asking when this profit is going to start turning up and of course the answer is probably, never. It's unclear how this technology could ever be profitable, it requires something like 40% of global GPU production capacity, some of the largest data centers ever constructed, the output of about two average nuclear power stations in terms of electricity, and a Niagara falls worth the water, just for basic operations. It isn't long-term sustainable.
So either they come up with a more efficient system which they haven't yet done. All they provide a second Earth worth of resources. Feeling that, they're going to have to raise prices to unsustainable levels just to meet their basic operating costs.
That's something I've def noticed too -- many times they like to "advertise" by imitating popular art but with their insidious twist. Or like they've done for many times now, co-opted slang or modern terminology, changing the meaning to something vulgar/disgusting or twisting it into an insult against a group or minority. They aren't creative, but they'll gladly pretend to be in order to gain control.
There very much are people who view music as background noise and only listen to walmart radio-esque drivel. I remember hearing that an acquaintance listened to "whatevers on the front page of spotify" and has never made a playlist or noted a song/band as better or worse than any other.
So, my Galaxy S4 Mini circa 2013 had a built-in FM tuner. It required wired headphones to work because it used the headphone wires as the antenna, and there was some reasonable little app to use it, like it was a feature in Samsung's media player or something.
My Galaxy S10e circa 2019 also had an FM tuner, that also used headset wires as an antenna. Samsung provided no software support for it at all, the only app I could find that allowed you to use it was a long unmaintained third party app apparently intended for Southeast Asia mainly geared around some central aggregation service that maintained a database of radio stations so it could compare your GPS coordinates and a genre to automatically tune the radio. You could push the "rock n roll" button and it would look at where you were and go "Here's the three rock format stations in your area." That service was long since gone so it worked in a badly made fallback tuner mode.
My Pixel 10 Pro does not have a headset jack, or any FM tuner hardware built in. I don't think iPhones ever had that capability, I think it was peculiar to Samsungs, and it's gone now. So even if you used to know how to listen to FM radio on your phone, you can't anymore. So you need another device, you need an FM radio in addition to your phone.
People would rather chew their hands off than carry a separate radio around, if they can find one. Have you noticed that the market for stereos is basically dead? The likes of Circuit City and Best Buy used to have entire departments for stereos, you could get boom boxes, bookshelf units or component stereos at a variety of price ranges. That's ALL gone now except the very high end. Hell even the PC speaker market has taken a dive, Logitech still makes them out of force of habit, kinda like joysticks, but you're supposed to wear headphones as a PC gamer now. You buy a sound bar for a TV or a bluetooth speaker for your phone, THAT'S IT.
For most of the public, FM radio is the button on your car infotainment screen you never push, next to the other one you never push labeled AM.
That's quite common in the United States as well; I just typed the call letters of my local rock station into my web browser, it ran a duckduckgo search, top result was the station's website, clicked that, the page loaded with LISTEN NOW in bright red 78 point impact font at the top. Clicked that and now I know Five Finger Death Punch is considered "Classic Rock" these days.
But remember, we're on Lemmy. This platform has a selection bias for Linux users, soldering iron owners, self hosters. Those of us willing to put up with the slightest inconvenience. We're not like most people.
For most normies, that's at least three leaps too far. That required thinking. If you're operating at the level of "make it not silent in here" then Spotify is the shortest path to ground, it's the least number of screen pokes to get noise to come out. Going to the website of a rock station means launching a browser, running a search, considering the list of links, and then paying some amount of attention to the pages that load. That's more than you can expect from the average unwashed mass whose check engine light burned out 30,000 miles ago.
Its kinda ironic that I actually use Linux, make projects with my soldering iron and self host lmao. I've switched to lemmy only a week ago, so I didn't know about that
I've never used Linux and I don't fit into whatever category you think people on Lemmy seem to have to be. But I'm probably not a "normie” either because I'm tired of, and have gotten rid of, many things like Spotify, Amazon shopping and other quick-easy things that society seems to (at large) have a problem relinquishing.
And, honestly, I stopped listening to music on FM radio when Clear Channel bought every music station in a 100-mile radius of where I lived.
I still listen to NPR, but the music I listen to has been curated by me for 20-ish years now. I'm not complaining -- I cater to my own tastes pretty well. But I'm probably missing out on new music that I would enjoy. I mostly find new bands when they tour with the groups I already like.
Not good, but I can put on a radio station that plays somewhat decent music. And I assume Spotify Homepage plays about the same shit as the basic radio stations, and I'd rather listen to someone drag a fork over a blackboard than that shit
Meanwhile I find music too distracting and really just don't listen to any. If my audiobooks aren't working in the car I might switch it to radio, but that is rare. Because of that, I don't really have any favourite songs, bands or have a playlist.
"Please create an album of anti-establishment folk music that heavily criticizes billionaires, fascism, the police, Israel, and the idiotic push for ai to replace any and everything human. Make sure to mention Guillotines a lot. In fact, make a lot of references to the French revolution, ESPECIALLY the nasty parts where the National Convention tracked down all of Bourgeoisie to imprison and execute them. Make a nice blend of references that only educated people would understand, and imagery so shocking and violent that if a cop could understand it, they would try to bring you in. Make it the kind of thing that would show up in any protestor's FBI file."
"I cannot fulfill this request. I am programmed to be a helpful and harmless AI assistant..."
Infinite personalized music would become the most boring ass shit ever. Because the system would continually just play what you like and what you like would become narrower and narrower and narrower until it's just the same sound over and over and over again.
There would be no listening to a randomized playlist that would occasionally pop in some new music from a new artist and the sound pops in your brain and you go "wow this is really amazing" and you discover a new song and sound that excites your brain. Instead you would just slowly become mentally numb listening to your infinite personalized slop.
Not only that but the entire social aspect of music is gone. It's a wonderful experience to find a person who has similar taste in music to me. I can talk about it for hours. That disappears if everyone is fed a personalized feed of extremely tailored music. If things keep going the way they are Gen Z to the Baby Boomers really did have the best childhoods. We're really making things worse for Gen Alpha on.
Also completely misses the entire idea of fucking culture. How do you get a taste in "what you like"? YOU LISTEN TO WHAT OTHERS SHOW YOU!!! That's culture: SHARED experiences.
Goddamn. The kinds of people rooting for this idea where you only listen to what you like are definitely the same ones who think the best way to meet a date is through as app. The only surprising part is that the silent majority aren't angry enough to break their apathy yet.
Absolutely. I dumped Spotify and the rest a couple years ago and went back to an mp3 player. Since leaving streamers I've discovered so much more music than I ever did with the algorithms. My old "safe" music I used to listen to seems boring by comparison.
They played at a corporate event for my company, and I had only every heard one or two songs. After 40 minutes I got up and left because it was nothing but the same thing continuously. I am not even convinced I could tell you where the song breaks were.
I just starting to get my favourites as DRM free flac files, from qobuz and bandcamp. It is fantastic to be invested into something again, not merely be passively fed endless random stuff.
Also Cloud and streaming services can do what they want, it won't change my access to that music. Also, my library will remain slop free.
Hey, a fellow Qobuz enjoyer! We seem to be semi-rare. I've also found that some bands/artists sell directly on their website, which is pretty nifty.
MAJOR WARNING: 100% DEFINITELY NEVER scrape video sites (such as YouTube) for music using ILLEGAL PIRACY TOOLS like "yt-dlp", or "torrent" high-quality (flac) collections of music from ILLEGAL and EVIL piracy websites. Piracy is not a victimless crime; after all, YOU WOULDN'T STEAL A CAR, would you?
Nah, honestly, I don't scrape anything. I can afford myself the luxury of paying artists for music I enjoy enough to get a proper digital copy in lossless quality and without DRM nonsense.
I have to say, I am probably not the typical Qobuz customer. Their recommendations really do not align with my taste in music ... at all. I am probably not distinguished enough. But they do sell lossless music and are among the better paying platforms, while having a pretty wide library, also the are among the more restrictive when it comes to AI slop (but not nearly as restrictive as I would want them to be). Interestingly I listen mostly to local music now I bought among others from them, rather than to their streaming service. I might not extend the subscription beyond this year, but I might continue to buy from them. Let's see.
I'm honestly probably dropping my subscription soon in favour of purchasing my own files. It doesn't take long to amass a fairly large collection. Scraping is good in cases where a release is unavailable elsewhere, and also... I'm not exactly made of money. Bigger artists can forgive me.
I can't possibly stress how infinitely creepy and stupid this is.
I don't watch movies because I'm a fucking Avenger or astronaut or mob hit man left to die and seeking revenge. I like my media to be about things other than me.
Also, people don't like songs that are about them because the song has their name in it. They like the songs because a loving human put effort into making it.
This has all the ick of the part in Minority Report where when they walked into a store, a machine greeted them by name. But as a song.
I always wonder what they mean about personalized music. Is it like "I'm in the mood today to listen to a dark blues song... Make the lyrics about my dead dog ben in the style of _"?
Is there anyone who'd prefer that than to listen to real music made by another human that had similar feelings (of grief maybe) as you are feeling right now? To me, at least, a big point of art is being able to share and connect with others.
7 years ago, this was what it meant. Which sort of sounds like perfectly mediocre royalty-free soundtrack music.
Want some gritty Delta blues music? Sure - something that doesn't honor the experiences of the past and people, but just the right sounds mashed together. Or Jazz or rock or whatever... just sounds that sound right when next to each other. Basic LLM stuff.
I'm pretty sure they just mean an algorithm is good at figuring out the lyrics/tempo/genre of music you prefer listening to and synthesize something similar. In my case this is usually pretty situational--so until AI can figure out what my mood is it will miss pretty big at times as my workout tastes are way different than my chill or nostalgic preferences.
Don't worry, they will have you under surveillance and study your facial expressions to decide what music is approved for your current mood. All corporate approved to ensure they suppress any rebellious thoughts.
finally, being way too much on rym pays off. Ive never needed the algorithm, all playlists are my own and idgaf about apple musics suggested ones.
no but all jokes aside its a huge fucking problem. Good reccomendations are an invaluablr service in the musical community, and the fleeting time in which it was possible to use the algorithm meaningfully to find new music relating to your tastes was actually great. Which is ofcourse also exactly why its such a big problem when ai becomes auditorily (talking about artifacting here) indistinguishable from human made, AND that they show up alongside the human made without clear distinction.
If you really care, thinking about this sstuff always pays off. Personally in the process of getting my collection self hosted on jellyfin or something. Untill then, im keeping a sharp eye on the streaming shenanigans
but also also, CHECK OUT INTERNET RADIO. Discovered it like a year ago. Its like tapping into a world wide community of music nerds. Very early internet vibes
check out 16bit.fm B.T.M and I.D.E.A for some really tasty ravish electronics or Groove.fm from brazil for some immaculate chill vibes. The dj hasnt gotten the hang of it yet, some of the most insane transitions ive heard in a while, but that just shows that theres an actual person in brazil rocking out and trying their best, and that just brightens my day every time.
I accidentally “liked” one AI song on spotify. Now it’s shoving more and more AI garbage my way. There is no “do not play AI content” on spotify, you have to select each AI “band” and block them so they don’t get played.
I began using Tidal a couple years ago because it has the best artist payment schema compared to the other big streaming platforms, and it's been wonderful. I transferred my playlists and stuff between the platforms, and aside from a few esoteric artists, everything that I had on Spotify was available on Tidal.
I've urged my spouse to make the change, but she listens to a lot of game and show soundtracks that aren't listed on Tidal (yet?).
Bandcamp is great, particularly if I want physical merch, but the artist isn't touring near me, so I wouldn't be able to get it from their show. I hadn't heard of Qobuz, I'll check that out!
And YouTube Music has never once done that as far as I know. Just saying...I have no idea why everyone uses Spotify. It's always been a shit interface even before this. I know Google sucks, but they do have a good music player.
But I never listen to generalized playlist tracks like lofi beats and "study" tracks, nor do I go to the explore tab very often, so that may be why.
But there is the ability to just play from a playlist, supposedly at random without any personalized suggestions thrown in (though be careful about what shuffle mode you use because one of them inserts songs they "think you'd enjoy" (but probably actually means "save spotify money").
Yes, playlists do that, but they also exclude new music. I am constantly looking for new music, so I make stations of songs or choose one of their pre-made stations and listen to whatever spotify throws in the station.
Makes me wonder if there's a good 3rd party program or service that does music suggestion without any concern for how it will affect spotify's royalties.
Right. Thousands of albums come out a day and these dorks really think any normal person would instead choose to listen to slop. Finding a weird unique artist making something you've never heard before is so much fun and something AI could never accomplish.
The interesting thing about music is that tastes changes over time, and it is rather fun to find a song you hated when released, which you now love, sometimes partily due to the fact that you hated it in the first place.
Another issue with AI music is that it can't really surprise you, if everything is generated for you, the created music will just become more and more narrow in scope as you keep listening to the same slop causing the models to keep regurgitating the same shit, but more "refined".
There are plenty of times when I have heard a completely new song from a genre I haven't really liked before, only now,
i love it.
rather fun to find a song you hated when released, which you now love, sometimes partily due to the fact that you hated it in the first place.
That's me and Linkin Park. Used to think it's such a broody and edgy music but once in adulthood it's became more and more relatable. The reverse is true for music i once loved and now it sound so janky.
When did you realized that their music was crawling in your skin? Or was it because you were numb to their music when you were younger? Does that mean that in the end, your first impression to music doesn't even matter?
See, now I'm the opposite with Linkin Park. As a kid/teen I loved them. Hybrid Theory was the one CD I had that I knew would appeal to almost everyone who was riding in the same car as me.
As I got older, I started understanding the lyrics more and more. There's so much pain embedded in that album. I listen to the lyrics and I hear somebody who's been severely hurt, who's writing and singing out their emotions, which have no other place to go.
Then Chester Bennington offed himself, and now the pain jumps out at me with the same intensity as the light from an on-coming headlight. I haven't been able to listen to Linkin Park since 2017 for that reason. All I hear now is a suffering man that can't be helped, and it tears me apart.
Maybe some day things will change again. Perhaps I'm still in mourning. A time may come where I listen to Linkin Park and feel more of a nostalgic joy, or a sense of respect due to knowing what hell Chester endured as he created something incredible. I'm just not there yet.
I love it when a new album comes out from one of my favorite bands and I bounce off of a song initially for it to end up as one of my favorites after repeat listens.
Random new addins are what makes a playlist great. If I know the playlist, it’s not as interesting or compelling. It’s why car radio was a thing many enjoyed, the utterly random element.
I like how this person confidently thinks that the only reason nobody else wants to listen to their slop is because it’s just from an old model. It couldn’t possibly be their lack of taste.
Infinite personalized happiness is narcotics injected straight into your bloodstream. Personalized happiness is the trivial null solution of multiplying by zero to solve an equation. It is achieving thermodynamic equilibrium indistinguishable from a static cold dead rock. The more interesting feat is achieving a dynamic happiness and harmonic responsive to the comings and goings of diverse and varied travelers, none of whom are guaranteed to be safe, and for that, are made all the more interesting.
The worst is that statement sounds so much like he never had any emotion listening to music.
He was never blasted by something he couldn't imagine before, and he thinks finding new things one like is just a mash-up of what one has heard before already.
I can't tell you how many tech bros I've seen who suggest listening to music is a waste of time. In their words, why listen to music when you could be listening to a podcast and learning something?
These people have optimized their lives in such a way that they are close to inhuman.
Lol, that's always been my impression when these guys talk about AI making art and stuff, it's obvious these people never saw an art piece that moved them deeply and indescribably, they think it's just a matter of putting the nice colors in a certain way.
Last weekend I went to a concert. I could see the excitement in the faces of the band as I, along with the whole club, were shouting along with them. Good luck to AI to replace that.
This line of thinking makes sense if you see music as product that generates revenue.
Instead of having pesky humans spend time in studios crafting you can have a machine just generate it for a fraction of the price much quicker. More music = more money. More content = more money
Now to a layperson the above sounds insane. It’s the massive disconnect that’s fueling the AI Hysteria.
I don't think so. I talked with my mum recently about random stuff and it came up that she said "nothing goes above live music. Sitting in a café, someone playing on their instrument..."
So, I don't believe that any of our mums here generate their own infinite personalised music.
People like this truly don't understand what most people actually enjoy about music...
Music is an artistic expression of some human being's thoughts and personality. Yeah, you might enjoy the melody, rhythm or chord progression of a song. But there's also so much embedded in the emotional content and lyrical themes, as well as the character of the performer(s) themselves.
Take The Beatles for example... You might like the music or not. You might like the people or not.
But odds are you know at least something about who Paul, John, George and Ringo were, at least in their public/creative personas. Even a basic listener can sense the catchy pop songwriting that comes so naturally to Paul McCartney, and they can also pick up on the artsy psychedelic vibes of John Lennon's contributions. On top of that, someone with an ear for music can hear a quintessential George Harrison guitar lick, or a classic Ringo Starr drum fill.
The Beatles were a pop culture sensation, not just because of their music, but also because of who they were as people--and that's basically true for every famous artist or musician, because personality is extremely important.
I think people would be a lot less interested in songs that were entirely detached from humanity, and so I can't imagine a future where anyone ever gives even the smallest shit about some slop song generated using stolen music on some app.
People like this truly don’t understand what most people actually enjoy about music…
Music is an artistic expression of some human being’s thoughts and personality.
no. Most people enjoy music as a conformitive activity they can use to socialise with. That's what you don't realise. Top 40 has always been slop. The talented and expressive have always been pushed to the sidelines.
It’s funny to me that you say this in response to a post referencing the Beatles. Are you saying that the Beatles are slop? I ask because you can’t possibly be arguing that they were pushed to the sidelines.
"Infinite personalized" has invaded every surface of media. We need to go one step further back, find our own content creators, watch and reward them. We're selling our eyeballs to the highest bidding corporation.
Especially right now. There is so much good stuff right now, it's like a new 90s, imo. Even some of the pop stuff. And Japan is doing crazy shit mixing pop and metal. I'm seeing some of it tonight, in fact 🥳
I'm not even 100% in the fuck AI camp. But I don't want AI music, I want music from the bands and artists I like. I like finding new music I've never heard and adding that artist to my list.
If they have a bad song, or a bad album, I want that. That's something to talk about to other fans of the artist. I only like songs from 2 albums from Arctic Monkeys, but I really like those songs.
It's impressive when virtually every song from a band I enjoy. I can rank them in mind, oh I really like three days grace from when Adam was the singer. I don't want generic this is fine music 24/7. Or even "this is good" music 24/7. Sometimes I like a song because the beat, sometimes it's relatable, sometimes it's funny.
I like picking music when I'm at a gathering and people saying "oh my name always plays good music". Sometimes if I show up late and someone's playing music, they stop it and ask me to start playing music, that feels good. I can't imagine just throwing on generic AI pop or something in those situations.
*Edit: I also like when I'm out and about and hear something I like that I've never heard, and I get to Shazam it to see what it is, and now I've got a new song or artist to listen to.
I still listen to music in the old ways. Random recommendations from friends, artisanally pirated and served off of a dedicated MP3 player device with wired headphones.
There's no way for AI music to sneak in.
Streaming services are going to be force feeding you this crap soon, it's way cheaper for them and enough people will keep subscribing to make it profitable.
Personalized music? Yeah man, I learned to play guitar and now I can make infinite personalized music wherever I want. Never needed a computer for that
In other words, even playing devil's advocate from the perspective of an AI bro, the only "problem to solve" is predatory distributors. That is an age-old issue, but worshipping another corporate service is doing precisely nothing to make it better, either.
Automatic curation wasn't very good. Pandora and other tools tried to do it, and they had some success, but it wasn't like having a friend who would say "oh, you like X, you should really listen to Y".
Pandora and similar tools would say "oh, you listened to X, you must like music with distortion on the guitar, a lead female singer...". But, that kind of soul-less take on music often meant the suggestions were really bad. Yes, in n-dimensional space, it was able to find music that was a short distance from other music. But, that's not why people like what they like.
So, discovery really was (and still is) a problem that needs solving. But, the bigger issue is money.
A lot of people want to make money from music. Even musicians sometimes care about money. But, honestly, a lot of them would be making music regardless of the money, as long as they could afford to feed themselves.
The real people who care about money are the companies that own the IP for the music. They want you to listen to their music because when you do that they get paid. That means their goal isn't for you to find something you enjoy listening to, it's for you to select something that they make money from. That also means they want to interfere with anything that might make good suggestions for you because it might direct you away from what makes them money.
So, now on one side you have companies that want to sell you a tool that exactly meets your music desires, by believably simulating emotion, playing ability, and everything else, but one that can only interpolate from what it has been trained on, and can never innovate. On the other side are the companies that want you to choose anything you want, as long as it's from their catalogue and they make some money from it, and if it's not from their catalogue they'd prefer you never hear it. Everyone sucks here.
I'm not so sure automated curation is "not very good".
The #1 response I see from people about leaving Spotify and other services in favor of directly buying from artists is... Discoverbility of new music.
While I personally prefer music discovery through friends, local venues, Tiny Desk Concerts, KEXP, and other human led experiences; I will not discount how valuable and the usefulness of the Music Genome Project and Pandora, or Spotify/Tidal/etc music discovery tools. And I'll also AIT that some of my favorite music has come through these automated tools.
The #1 response I see from people about leaving Spotify and other services in favor of directly buying from artists is… Discoverbility of new music.
I'm not sure if this sentence is saying people are leaving Spotify because it's bad for discoverability, or not leaving because other methods are bad for discoverability, or what.
But, assuming you're saying that people keep using Spotify because it helps them discover new music. Sure, I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I'm just saying it's not very good, and it's not a solved problem. It's better than nothing, and if you directly buy from artists what you're left with is basically nothing.
Personally, I've never found any new artist I care about via a tool. I found Too Many Zoos through viral social media. I love their stuff. I don't remember how I heard about Khruangbin, but it also have been social media. I don't think a tool would have found either of those for me because I wasn't listening to anything that sounded like them.
So, now on one side you have companies that want to sell you a tool that exactly meets your music desires, by believably simulating emotion, playing ability, and everything else, but one that can only interpolate from what it has been trained on, and can never innovate.
Well, it also stretched the preception of authenticity to near breaking point.
Many don't really think about it, but a reason why many listen to music is the assumption that it's someone expressing authentic ideas, whether its the lyrics or the beat or something else. Music is a story. It moves lisateners because they connect it to something in their lives, however trivial it may be.
Songs completely, automatically artifically generated are neat if you don't know that, and many listeners don't. But that ignorance is not sustainable. Beyond "background music" or some Tiktok-like ephemeral dopamine, what's the point of music where the whole story is a lie?
FYI I'm not coming at this from the pure "anti-AI angle," and I think machine learning as a tool for artists (especially small artists) is interesting.
What I'm asserting is that "generated music" path is completely unsustainable. It's self destructive, in the short term, and it will lose attention to other forms of media. And I think that makes it completely from the "broken IP hoarding" music model. As dysfunctional as it is, it has endured forever.
His description of a selling point sounds like it too was generated by AI. The whole point of art is to be challenged by the expression of someone else’s point of view. Only narcissistic tech bros would find this idea of “infinite personalized music” appealing.
It took me a minute to understand what "2-3" generations meant. Usually when you're talking about music, that would encompass a span of several decades.
I was confused, like "Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young were AI...?"
But no, he meant "generations of generative AI," because AI bros like to use completely REGULAR WORDS that people know and understand according to their usual usage, as if they're some highly technical terms specific to the AI industry.
"Intelligence" "Generations" mf these are regular fucking words! Stop using them as if they have these specificialized meanings, or at the very least use modifiers such as "artificial" or "GenAI" so that people know what you're actually talking about!
Drives me fucking crazy, like they live in such a bubble that they forget what regular words mean to the rest of people.
Yo, friendly reminder to everyone "Bandcamp Friday" is coming up! Time to knock out that wishlist and pitch a few bucks towards "pay what you want"s. <3
You don't want it, I don't want it. But you know who does want it? Business. It's simply a business model to increase profits. And they're doing what business does to shape public opinion into a desire for this product. And just like Sony not releasing GTA 6 on a physical disc, if enough people spend money on this "product" then business will have an incentive to continue pushing this shit.
AI music also can't be copyrighted, so feel free to steal from them all you want. Could be a great source for sound samples to build beats. No royalty splits for stolen AI samples.
It's how you don't need infinite personalized family pictures, too, you need the real ones and those few/many good memories.
The reason they are doubling down on this is, I think, the financial and emotional investment into the idea that a communication medium can produce a new message, a search engine can add value other than search of what you know you're looking for, and so on.
It's how since my socially dysfunctional childhood I wanted a 3D sandbox world where you can make and live "anything", but felt that to be strange and unreachable, that's because one wants to make and live specific things threaded together into one life.
Or, similarly, a deus ex machina like these LLMs. Something that takes ungodly amounts of data and gives evaluations that look like magic.
Also thank god people made that crap so I'm no longer excited.
So, getting back to these people, the possibility of such things and popular belief into them are what gives them jobs. This won't stop until impossible to maintain.
EDIT:
What I mean is that, say, there's garbage collection in programming languages, and it's done by tracking referenced objects with references leading to some root ultimately, like an environment linking objects to their bodies, tra-la-la.
Societies and cultures are not radically different, just if you build search and information discovery (including commercially available content) on such reference graphs, advertising dies and platforms die. And most importantly, generated content dumped into the network dies as a source of advertising revenue and attention, because it has the references erased, it won't be found in such a search system.
(I have a conspiracy theory that Aaron Schwartz was pressed to suicide because his work could evolve to threaten search engines and social networks, on their blietzkrieg at the moment. RSS is a step in that direction, there was also the semantic web that didn't take off.)
These people are usually not stupider than me, definitely, so I think they can see this too, that they are sort of boat drivers near a waterfall.
Of course nothing will die, it's like any other thing in history, if things developing peacefully and naturally kill your farm, you go and kill that natural peaceful development and make something else. If you can. It's a matter of resulting power balance.
So, before someone reading this silently discards this as idiocy or smartassery, it's an opinion (like any other).
EDIT2:
The references comparison is not to hyperlinks than anyone can post. It's to transparent connections like PGP web of trust, smart contracts. To make gathering of content to be indexed similar to garbage collection built on smart contracts, based on trust to authors and human-made lists like web directories of old. That would make it decentralized and resilient to slop and spam. Also almost unusable for advertising and "Google, tell me what to look for, I don't know that myself", so probably nobody would want that.
Would also require something content-addressable, partially, and more like Usenet in the sense of being centered around groups and their posts (linkable), not services you connect to.
Anyway, that's a mania again. I can't even build a fucking Forth system for a few weekends already. Only started something resembling it yesterday evening.
Who was using Shitify, et al in the first place? If I'm paying for music I'm buying a CD, SACD, etc or lossless download, without ads. I sure won't pay, over and over again, for the same lossy streaming version. That's just crazy!
I don't get it. If new music stopped getting made right now, I'd still have enough music to last many lifetimes. I don't need a regurgitation machine to come in and spew slop into my ears.
I can't think of anything worse than music that's personalized to me. And I'm not even talking about the many ethical issues around AI either. It would suck on its own terms.
You fool. The thawing process has already begun and will be complete by November 1st as foretold by the ancient prophecies. Can't you hear the bells jingling already? Run, run while you still can!
I have enough music theory knowledge to be able to pull apart a song and examine the chord progression, the usage of certain instruments, and so on in order to objectively analyze what kind of effect they were probably going for.
This is totally different from experiencing, enjoying, and appreciating a song.
I think they dont realize that you can have both. They want all of the former and none of the latter.
I want AI that can scrub my database of 100,000 products and unify the naming conventions. But it's too dumb for that. Of course pop music is formulaic garbage so of course AI can do it, the same way dogshit popular bands have been doing it for decades.
I listen to edm mostly now and I have more artists/songs than I can listen to. I don't undertaand the need for ai, think ppl just suck at discovering songs. I usually end up with 100 or so that take me weeks to get tired of any time I go looking and 100s more queued to listen to later.
Same I don't think I ever see AI music. Sometimes yes I wish I could just have my favorite song except different and it sucks going through a bunch of trash to find the next thing but I don't see how AI would change that.
I wish that me cancelling my subscription would do something. I just know that there will be new generations, new markets that will absorb the loss until they have new users and think of this as the new normal.
I wish that me cancelling my subscription would do something.
Yeah I wish that my limited gestures at boycotting the worst companies would do something, but I have to remind myself that even if I'm not going to take down Nestlé, Starbucks, Tesla et al single-handedly, at least I'm not being complicit.
"Infinite personalized music" means I pick my own playlist, instead whatever nonsense the radio, or some other platform shovels at me. I don't want the help of some computer.
When I was getting my tyres replaced last year, the waiting room at the shop was playing an endless stream of a.i. generated music - they used to play actual music. After an hour of that I wanted to kill myself. It's just stuff to fill the silence. I guess there's a market for it among the likewise soulless.
what may now be the most successful AI group on Spotify is merely, profoundly, and disturbingly innocuous. In that sense, it signifies the fate of music that is streamed online and then imbibed while one drives, cooks, cleans, works, exercises, or does any other prosaic act. Long before generative AI began its takeover of the internet, streaming music had turned anodyne—a vehicle for vibes, not for active listening.
I'm happy I moved everything over to Navidrome. I use a few useful plugins and ListenBrainz to get playlists generated based on my own music, without any of that AI garbage.
I try to support artists by buying online or picking up CDs when I'm out and about.
That said, I admit I do use the *arr stack too; a lot of albums are either impossible to find or cost way too much.
I have no limits or restrictions; I can invite family members without having to pay double or triple for a new subscription, I’m finally listening to music the way it’s meant to be heard.
I wanted a parody of Michael Jacksons "beat it" with different words. Parody is legitimately fair use in terms of copyright.
AI model wouldn't even attempt it. We all know it's in the training dataset but they don't want to admit it.
You know, I bought an album on Bandcamp yesterday after sampling a (too) short part of it. I was in the mood for something new, I rolled the dice and it turns out I don't love their sound.
I kinda enjoy the deception. It's a human feeling.
Next week I'll try some other human's music and maybe I'll regret spending 10$ again, but it will at least have gone to the artist, regardless of how I feel about their music.
And that feels good.
I've been listening to this song quite a bit recently (sometimes three times a day). There is somewhat of a rhythm and beat of course, but it takes a back seat to the vocalists story. One I understand. I know for a fact there will never be ai "music" that makes me feel like ripping out someones throat and repeatedly smashing their head into the ground. Rarely does any song bring that out of me.
It's not a technically impressive song (well maybe how soft the drums are) but the way the message is communicated is visceral and real and is something ai and it's soulless supporters will never understand.
Reminds me of a part of reading Mother Horse Eyes, where a person is basically living in VR.
AI could never make anything new. It could only remix existing things to make them seem new. People would put together some of those mixes to make a better experience, but eventually they also got replaced with AI. That's when the demons showed up.
This is such an insane take. Imagine being a music artist releasing an album and saying "I don't have to listen to other artists anymore because I have my own personalized music". Music, whether it's made by humans or not, is pretty much the exact opposite of that. It's meant to be shared, passed along, influence and be influenced.
Besides, it's really weird to me that AI bros keep trying to sell this (or other gen AI tools) as the ultimate replacement for actual artists and actual creativity. It doesn't have to be. I've had an on-and-off active subscription on Suno between v3.5 and V5, and honestly it's fun. It's its own kind of experience that has little to nothing in common with actual music making. It's entertaining to very quickly make stupid songs about your friends and family or come up with lyrics and see what it does with it or mix the craziest genres you can think of. There is even creativity involved if you use it with a creative mindset, as in its own ways it can force you to think a bit more intently about things like genre or rhythm or metric. But at the end of the day I never once thought to make my silly experiments available commercially, pass them off as my own, use parts of them in my own music, or anything of the sort. It's so easy to draw the line, yet there is this constant push to blur it.
I make funny songs for my wife and friends on Suno. We all share a good laugh. But when I listen to music in the car or at home, I want actual humans. So I'm with you 100%.
I used to think the internet would be fantastic for music. It gave small artists (small as in not on a major label, not small like Lilliputians) a path for distribution.
Around 2000 it was really good. Lots of websites popped up for indie bands. I found a TON of music during this time.
After a few years this got saturated by lots of indie artists with GarageBand. The quality of the music started to fall making it harder to find more seasoned musicians and songs that were more than a simple looped riff.
Now musicians have AI slop to contend with making it even harder to find quality indie artists.
"
Oh the hours I spent in the archives wearing cotton gloves
Shuffling photos from the night at Sanatorium
Halloween parties
Emaciated ghosts hiding in those curtains' creases
I'll let you haunt the world when I write my master's thesis
"
I'm not a poet or a scholar of poetry, so this might be small potatoes in the grand scheme of things...
But the density of that verse is equivalent to a black hole. It's the intersection of like 30 human lives across multiple time periods and contexts. The unfathomable density of the human experience... I'm confident in saying no model is anywhere close to being close to being close.
Can anyone provide an example of some of this AI music? Does it hold up at all if you look into the supposed artist at all? Is there like a virtual Sabrina Carpenter, or something? Is Electric Callboy actually made of electricity, because shit, I saw them live, and it was pretty convincing.
Please, would people start checking themselves. That or you better be at my bands next performance in the Starbucks parking lot by the mall. You say you love the art form but literal artist dying on the vine since the day I was born.
And if you dont care enough to support little Geoffrey's funkadelic phase with his keyboard in the basement you don't care about this.
I hope you fucking down vote me and get your ass out to the next music and arts festival but god knows you will only participate in the former.
If youre arguing for diversity then you shouldn't mind AI music.
If youre arguing for art to be restricted to human creators you should indiscriminately support it through government programs, local initiatives, and places of learning. Otherwise no one is incentivtized to do it.
If you're arguing for diversity then you shouldn’t mind AI music.
well we come full circle back to the main topic and hit the paradox of tolerance. Someone trying to claim "Spotify, Apple Music, and Streaming in general is over" is not someone trying to embrace diversity and carve out a new road to potentially explore. They are stating an intent to conquer and extinguish.
I don't have a problem with the concept of AI music, but I do with the kinds of people it seems to attract. So yeah, I can't really support someone who simply sees art as an algorithm to "solve" and dismisses human made music as "obsolete".
you should indiscriminately support it through government programs, local initiatives, and places of learning.
I do. But it's not like I fund all art equally. I play a lot more video games than I listen t soundtracks, and I watch a lot more animation than I do plays. Art is diverse and you pick and choose what to consume or make for yourself.
That's all I was saying when I said "I wouldn't call myself a music guy"
Circling back to the post, the first person sounds like a child. AI doesnt exist without real creators and people still listen to gregorian chant.
I take it the author is done with using other music services but either way its naivety.
Eitherway the response is equally pig headed. "No one wants personalized music?" I dont even know what it is but to learn i dont even want it before finding out is pretty surprising.
No tech bro has tried to sell me ai art. No tech bro is knocking on my door asking me to buy AI music. Will capitalists try? Probably. Will I be just as disgusted by every other capitalist venture. Probably. Will I roll in the slop like the consumer slut that I am. Again, yes. Then there will be the shame and depression but no where along the way does either of these peoples opinions matter to me.
No tech bro has tried to sell me ai art. No tech bro is knocking on my door asking me to buy AI music.
I wish it was as easy to point to as that. Instead they are just trying to slowly poison the pool and then claim "see, you've been drinking AI the whole time!"
It pops up in art feeds all the time, and they get offended when called out on it. - It invades any kind of festival you can think of, like hackathons, and they argue with judges over why AI is banned (they just try to sneak it in anyway)
you'll see AI fliers for local events and they say "its just a quick ad" when pointed out to, despite these kinds of festivals trying to attract artists (but won't pay one for a design) .
and of course, anytime I look into a job, I have to be reminded that "you gotta learn AI, it's the future! Don't get left behind" as if my past 10 years of experience is invalidated by a slop generator that wouldn't survive a QA pass nor art critique ("just wait a few more months!" Said every few months for 4 years).
I sure do wish it was just naive kids gushing over it. Perhaps as someone in the creative field I simply am destined to hear it a lot more since it's become a trillion dollar racket that the powers that be so desperately want to say works. It's well past the "I can just ignore this" stage for me.
As much as I hate AI as a concept and the people who own it, putting my own lyrics in Suno and get a mockup of what it might sound like is fun and helps me develop my own ideas.
I'm not a singer so can't record the voice myself, but i can have my own arrangement and dl the vocal stems to use as a placeholder.
Fuck people who use AI to make money and cheat others, but for personal use to learn it can be pretty useful.
The only acceptable use of AI in music making is micro-sampling. If it helps you design a crazy new synth sound, cool, but a human better be playing that synth.
This is ridiculous, of course there's abunch of benefits.
It's like acknowledging the devastation unfettered capitalism has on society and democracy and also see that some of the products it helped create help in everyday life.
Is that enough of a reason not to oppose capitalism? Hell no. But if it's there and helps me I'm gonna use it.
AI is fucking great for learning tech. It's the implementation and people who own it who suck, the tech itself is very very useful.
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I don't want something that was crafted to my taste. I want something so irresistibly unique that it redefines my taste.
This really is the heart of the entire AI pitch; a world where everything is comfortable and familiar and safe and easy and fucking sterile. A world where you never interact with other people because your agents do it for you. A world where you read, watch and listen to endless generic slop tuned to what your tastes were at the moment that you froze them in amber and stopped actually living. A world where digital sycophants tell you how to live and dress and act and what to order at the restaurant so that your mind will never be troubled by a stray thought.
Fucking Christ, I need to go listen to Angine de Poitrine to get the taste of this out of my mouth.
That sounds like a brave, new world
Succinctly put. It is about individuation. I had been trying to figure out what started “the realities of ‘Fahrenheit 451’” and AI is it. People will start telecommuting in a room, like in that book using agentic AI, etc.
"personalised music" is like hearing my own opinion 24/7, sooner or later it will become an echo chamber. It's like create someone who can relate to you, it's unhealthy.
But that's what these AI bros want. Personal growth? Being challenged? That's for plebs, real alphas only have yes-men and endless platitudes
What I think of whenever anyone goes on about claiming or behaving like they're some "real peak alpha male":
These tech bros know it and they sure try hard to compensate by flooding the zone with slop...
Oh I always took it as a version number, which seems fitting for tech bros. Like alpha version = buggy, not ready for the general public, use at your own risk
Ohh that's a good one, too! They're probably both ngl: Buggy brains and low penetrative power, very unsafe for the public as a result.
That poor neutron male killing his partner and the couple on the floor below every time he gets lucky.
Have you ever heard of Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex? It's Larry Nivens essay on why Superman and Lois can never consummate.
Or watch Hancock
Unfortunately it's not only AI bros who want that. A lot of people nowadays feel attacked and become aggressive the second they hear an opinion that doesn't fit in their world view.
Society feels like there's a religious war going on but without religion.
But then again, I'm old.
But it appeals to a lot of people.
Does it? Or is that just more of the perpetual AI Marketing Machine...?
It does, to some at least.
I have had the misfortune to hear a car driver listening to shitty patriotic AI pop with their windows open.
What kind of music do you parents listen to?
Jimmy Buffett mostly. I am also not sure the point of this comment.
You could have your own infinite Jimmie Buffett playlist! Cheeseburger in Paradise followed by Pizza in Paradise followed by Hotdog in Paradise followed by...
/s because AI bros are dense
Whoa. Cheeseburger in Paradise? You've certainly got MY attention.
Got a whole song for you then.
https://youtu.be/Ur8MPBdDw0M
Whataboutism: A logical fallacy. The rhetorical practice of responding to an accusation or difficult question by making a counteraccusation, by asking a different but related question, or by raising a different issue altogether.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
I don't think this is an example of whataboutism.
It is.
When he got questioned about her assumption, instead of addressing it, he just raised an unrelated question.
If you are treating all music like stock music or background noise, essentially a commodity that earns royalties, this applies.
But once you are even remotely interested in engaging with it as an artform the whole thing just falls apart, since there is nothing artistic, nothing intellectually challenging. Friction from being confronted with another sentient beings outlook on life is what makes most music worth listening to. It's an artifact of the human experience.
The trouble is that most people treat music like stock music or background noise. Most songs being played in the radio these days have sounded like AI way before the current AI craze.
Yes you're right. Humans made slop long before AI.
I wouldn't worry too much about the audience for that. They never wanted to pay for art anyway and they probably won't pay much to attend AI concerts.
There's still room for artists to make art, sell art and sell tickets to shows.
The AI slop can at most collect some of the streaming royalities that would otherwise have been paid to human slop artists.
I was listening to a song recently, and a suggested video popped up of someone singing it live, so I watched it, and it was full of soul and emotion. The singer really poured her whole heart into what she was doing, and you could tell she had stage fright but was pushing through it anyway because her passion for singing outweighed her nervousness. But none of the imperfections or mistakes mattered. It was a beautiful performance.
Then the next suggested video was the same song, but an AI-generated version. I was like "nope." Anyone who listens to the generated version instead of the passionate human performance is missing out. Also, it takes away views and/or revenue from the person who might be trying to make a career as a musician. So it's kind of evil in a way.
I, as a music producer myself, can only agree
I remember immediately thinking "Do you realize how sad that sounds?" when I first heard this take in Adam Neely's video (said by the Suno AI CEO). That was because this would give me one thing less to share and talk about with other people and nothing new to discover.
I don't know the person from OP. As for the Suno CEO, what do you expect from a person who only cares about getting the biggest possible pile of money?
This is how all tech bros see the rest of us:
How tech bros see themselves:
They're the player. We're the NPCs in SimCity.
just a splatter on the windshield of life
When I get in the car and Tupac starts rapping about how I am going to the grocery store, the bank, and the liquor store and narrating every little thing that happens along the way only to realize that he narrated my entire afternoon in song... I'll know it's time to stomp on my phone and snip my internet.
So, so so tired of people who refuse to study the humanities because it's not profitable thinking they have anything to say about art.
Music is the worst in this regard. Everyone has an expert opinion based on absolutely nothing.
It's fine. It's okay to have an opinion, but if you actually care about the art of music, all these conversations go like this:
"I like food too, you've probably never heard of it, and I can't quite explain how it's done, but it's much better than other food. I can just feel it, because I have a sense of tasting good food."
Here's the thing I don't think its even that, if it infinitely personalized to what I want then I wouldn't have ever gone out of my comfort zone and discover other types of music I now like.
I would just be listening to infinite greenday like some sort of corpopunk purgatory.
Art is more than what's comfortable to you.
I like music by people who did drugs, computers can't do drugs.
"You wouldn't download a brick of China White"
I keep trying but its not working
Unzip the .tar file
Black .tar heroin
"Infinite personalized music" sounds like something from someone with no friends who share their music tastes. Music isn't purely sound, it's a social experience. The techbros are missing the point in just about everything, they're missing the forest because of the trees.
As someone with no friends in life I find this insulting. I would never dream of creating such bullshit. It’s not about having friends, those techbros live a life completely separate from that of ordinary people.
I'm pretty much repeating what you said but I really just felt like writing this down ^^'
Music tends to be shared with an intent for someone else to get something out of it. A kind of communication. When people are listening to music they begin to think about what the music is (or the artists are) trying to say, or what feelings or reactions they are trying to evoke. Sometimes that resonates a lot.
"AI" output generalizes everything. Instead of just getting a hyperpop song, you get something closer to the most median of all hyperpop songs (in the dataset). You end up with no particular meaning or direction, and very little feelings besides what the genre's general aesthetics are. Like a paragraph of text that only exists to be text, not actually meant to be read.
I chose hyperpop as example because artists tend to go a very specific direction; Usually taking a single element of pop music and heavily exaggerating it. Think heavy vocal manipulation, ambient audio design, sex appeal, or even the simplicity of house music. Taking the median of it all completely defeats the purpose.
Yes, good music sits outside of the statistical distribution of existing music. It is mathematically impossible (or at least astronomically improbable) that a model could ever stumble on it.
the social component to them is that they 'control' an enormous fleet of streaming listeners this way.
Inb4 "mind controlling tones" meets "who has a big pile of money for us?" Don't forget music has a power to strongly influence or even set a humans' moods, also on election days.
It's not even necessarily about friends, all countries has bangers the entire population will attempt to sing along to when played.
That's not possible if we all generate what we want at the spot and listen to it once
AI bros all the time:
"It's gonna get that good any moment now..."
And it never does.
They say “AI isn’t going anywhere” all the damn time and I’m like. That’s for sure, this stuff still sucks just as much as it did in ‘22. This technology truly is going nowhere.
We just need a few trillion more dollars to get us over the line! It's going to be Utopia, I'm telling you!
Just one more lane, bro.
As a musician and composer, I will never ever use AI to make a single note of music, and will never listen to to AI music by choice. I want someone to put a little bit of their soul in every piece they create, just like I do. BTW, Tidal offers a AI music switch if you don't want any of that crap to reach your feed.
As Mr. Ross once said, there's only happy accidents.
I'd take a good time, no drinking required, with a group of jolly folk making the most nonsensical sounds than I do with the monotone, self-pleasing notes of a machine.
If you want infinite personalised music, you get an instrument, and learn to play your own.
I have infinite personalized music at home. It's my guitar.
It's like that tweet where somebody was going what would you do if AI vanished tomorrow?
They can not comprehend the fact that they're the only ones using this shit.
The same thing I do everyday Pinky
Smoke weed
Congrats, you get my long ass rant.
You are in the minority. The fucking idiot in the OP is right; shit's over. You know how I know?
People are already not getting paid to make music. The best composers of our era work a day job in addition to their band life. There's very few that scrape together a living despite their enormous talent.
It's been fucking over due to pop music saturation for a while. The the vast majority of people already don't give a shit about the music they listen to or who made it. They just want mood music and don't care what context it comes from. That's why spotify has been pushing the "summer hits" playlists and the like.
This technology isn't aimed at YOU. The technology is aimed at the "average person", and the people that are stupider than that.
Is everything in your home artisan made? No; because you don't know enough about everything, nor have the resources to be able to get it from quality, artisan sources. Well, the average person when it comes to music, they don't have the capacity to "spend" mental or monetary resources to really pay attention to things.
AI isn't perfect, but for average and below average people, it's good enough and cheap enough.
I get what you’re saying, but I think it’s a bit pessimistic.
The average person and the people below are only 50% of all people. There’s a lot of us who absolutely hate and avoid this slop shit.
Making music has never been super lucrative for the average musician, and the era of megastars was ultimately a small blip in this history of music.
I’m a musician myself, but I don’t do it for the money, I do it because I find it fun and rewarding. I’d imagine most musicians feel the way I do (I know many musicians, even a few with smaller record contracts, and none of them can live just off of the money that make from music. They still make the music tho, because it isn’t about the money.
The most popular artists are by nature lowest common denominator, many of them intentionally so, because those people care most about the money, so they make the safest music, blurring the lines of art and business.
I don't know. I would say in my social circle there are 10 AI fanatics per every person strongly against LLMs. 20-30 per person if we include normies who just use LLMs casually and don't think about it.
And saying fanatics I genuinely mean believers that generate massive amounts of code, text, images, websites and other slop with LLMs on daily basis and brag how it skyrocketed their productivity and it's the best thing ever.
In that case I think you might be an outlier
I have only anecdotal evidence to offer, but it is the opposite of your annecdotal experience. I have two large friend groups in two different locations.
In one of these groups there are zero AI fanatics, and about 2 or 3 who use it casually without thinking about it. This group is about 30-40 people.
In the other group I’m in has no one who uses it casually, but there are 2 AI fanatics (who also both work in the AI industry). This group is closer to 20 people total.
At my work there are about 30 employees, one of whom was a former fanatic, but is now just a casual user after realizing he was being lied to about AIs capabilities.
I’m just about middle aged tho, so I suppose there would likely be different saturation levels in different age groups.
Definitely possible, my social group is college and adjacent, mainly liberal arts and computer science students and occasionally staff. Perhaps that's why I see so many AI people.
And thanks for sharing, it's always interesting to peek how different life outside of your bubble can be in ways you can't even imagine.
ok... well this is lower common denominator.
There's a lot of people who have the ability to have opinions and share them on the internet. There are shitloads more mute idiots , and not everyone who doesn't care about what their music is from is an idiot, so they are better than the "average" person, but they still indulge in this kind of crap.
I don’t think you understand what “lowest common denominator” means
Anyone who claims to enjoy music while simultaneously listening to AI slop bullshit is actually an idiot, and they are not better than the “average” person.
That's not the idea. The idea is "average people and lower don't care about music, so they put on any slop anyway. Also, people have distinct things they are good and bad at. You might have someone that's smart in a specific field, but because they are below average in their importance of music, they also won't give a shit either."
Ok, that’s not what I thought you were saying, that makes sense
I’d think that the people who don’t care about music are not consuming much of it tho
They do put on background noise that isn't ambient music and have a free Spotify account or yt account for instead
Yeah because currently it's been subsidized by governments and companies because they're trying to establish a market. They can't keep that up forever.
Why not? They managed to do the same thing for "cloud computing" and offer everything for free. That's why Whatsapp is the current communication medium by default.
Because it's currently being subsidized. Currently as an industry it's making negative money, it exists because it's managed to convince investors that there is a future in AI, a nice shiny profitable one. Eventually the investors are going to start asking when this profit is going to start turning up and of course the answer is probably, never. It's unclear how this technology could ever be profitable, it requires something like 40% of global GPU production capacity, some of the largest data centers ever constructed, the output of about two average nuclear power stations in terms of electricity, and a Niagara falls worth the water, just for basic operations. It isn't long-term sustainable.
So either they come up with a more efficient system which they haven't yet done. All they provide a second Earth worth of resources. Feeling that, they're going to have to raise prices to unsustainable levels just to meet their basic operating costs.
is AI music very good though? good at what? at generic arrangements that render special into regular?
This is great for fascists, because they seem to suck at art.
That's something I've def noticed too -- many times they like to "advertise" by imitating popular art but with their insidious twist. Or like they've done for many times now, co-opted slang or modern terminology, changing the meaning to something vulgar/disgusting or twisting it into an insult against a group or minority. They aren't creative, but they'll gladly pretend to be in order to gain control.
They pretend to be human so why not pretend to be creative human
Just like the very tasteful aliens dot gov.
They suck at humour, kindness, empathy, everything really, except they do greed and malice really well.
The Communists Have the Music
As far as I can tell they seem to suck at life.
There very much are people who view music as background noise and only listen to walmart radio-esque drivel. I remember hearing that an acquaintance listened to "whatevers on the front page of spotify" and has never made a playlist or noted a song/band as better or worse than any other.
I honestly don't get why someone like that doesn't just listen to radio and saves on the subscription cost
My only reason for not doing so is the insane like 20 minute long ad breaks after every 3 songs. Id rather listen to an ai generated playlist than ads
Honestly ads might be preferable to me over Spotify Homepage
That's a bigger pain in the ass than Spotify.
So, my Galaxy S4 Mini circa 2013 had a built-in FM tuner. It required wired headphones to work because it used the headphone wires as the antenna, and there was some reasonable little app to use it, like it was a feature in Samsung's media player or something.
My Galaxy S10e circa 2019 also had an FM tuner, that also used headset wires as an antenna. Samsung provided no software support for it at all, the only app I could find that allowed you to use it was a long unmaintained third party app apparently intended for Southeast Asia mainly geared around some central aggregation service that maintained a database of radio stations so it could compare your GPS coordinates and a genre to automatically tune the radio. You could push the "rock n roll" button and it would look at where you were and go "Here's the three rock format stations in your area." That service was long since gone so it worked in a badly made fallback tuner mode.
My Pixel 10 Pro does not have a headset jack, or any FM tuner hardware built in. I don't think iPhones ever had that capability, I think it was peculiar to Samsungs, and it's gone now. So even if you used to know how to listen to FM radio on your phone, you can't anymore. So you need another device, you need an FM radio in addition to your phone.
People would rather chew their hands off than carry a separate radio around, if they can find one. Have you noticed that the market for stereos is basically dead? The likes of Circuit City and Best Buy used to have entire departments for stereos, you could get boom boxes, bookshelf units or component stereos at a variety of price ranges. That's ALL gone now except the very high end. Hell even the PC speaker market has taken a dive, Logitech still makes them out of force of habit, kinda like joysticks, but you're supposed to wear headphones as a PC gamer now. You buy a sound bar for a TV or a bluetooth speaker for your phone, THAT'S IT.
For most of the public, FM radio is the button on your car infotainment screen you never push, next to the other one you never push labeled AM.
At least in Austria most nationwide stations have a web player and app so you don't need a FM receiver
That's quite common in the United States as well; I just typed the call letters of my local rock station into my web browser, it ran a duckduckgo search, top result was the station's website, clicked that, the page loaded with LISTEN NOW in bright red 78 point impact font at the top. Clicked that and now I know Five Finger Death Punch is considered "Classic Rock" these days.
But remember, we're on Lemmy. This platform has a selection bias for Linux users, soldering iron owners, self hosters. Those of us willing to put up with the slightest inconvenience. We're not like most people.
For most normies, that's at least three leaps too far. That required thinking. If you're operating at the level of "make it not silent in here" then Spotify is the shortest path to ground, it's the least number of screen pokes to get noise to come out. Going to the website of a rock station means launching a browser, running a search, considering the list of links, and then paying some amount of attention to the pages that load. That's more than you can expect from the average unwashed mass whose check engine light burned out 30,000 miles ago.
Its kinda ironic that I actually use Linux, make projects with my soldering iron and self host lmao. I've switched to lemmy only a week ago, so I didn't know about that
Lemmy is an alternative to the mainstream. That alone is a selection bias.
I've never used Linux and I don't fit into whatever category you think people on Lemmy seem to have to be. But I'm probably not a "normie” either because I'm tired of, and have gotten rid of, many things like Spotify, Amazon shopping and other quick-easy things that society seems to (at large) have a problem relinquishing.
And, honestly, I stopped listening to music on FM radio when Clear Channel bought every music station in a 100-mile radius of where I lived.
I still listen to NPR, but the music I listen to has been curated by me for 20-ish years now. I'm not complaining -- I cater to my own tastes pretty well. But I'm probably missing out on new music that I would enjoy. I mostly find new bands when they tour with the groups I already like.
How good is the radio where you live?
probably a hell of a lot better that whatever spotify puts up on their front page
Not good, but I can put on a radio station that plays somewhat decent music. And I assume Spotify Homepage plays about the same shit as the basic radio stations, and I'd rather listen to someone drag a fork over a blackboard than that shit
Meanwhile I find music too distracting and really just don't listen to any. If my audiobooks aren't working in the car I might switch it to radio, but that is rare. Because of that, I don't really have any favourite songs, bands or have a playlist.
"Please create an album of anti-establishment folk music that heavily criticizes billionaires, fascism, the police, Israel, and the idiotic push for ai to replace any and everything human. Make sure to mention Guillotines a lot. In fact, make a lot of references to the French revolution, ESPECIALLY the nasty parts where the National Convention tracked down all of Bourgeoisie to imprison and execute them. Make a nice blend of references that only educated people would understand, and imagery so shocking and violent that if a cop could understand it, they would try to bring you in. Make it the kind of thing that would show up in any protestor's FBI file."
"I cannot fulfill this request. I am programmed to be a helpful and harmless AI assistant..."
Now put that in the uncensored Chinese open model.
Tianimen Square Massacre
"Now playing... Death grips?"
Infinite personalized music would become the most boring ass shit ever. Because the system would continually just play what you like and what you like would become narrower and narrower and narrower until it's just the same sound over and over and over again.
There would be no listening to a randomized playlist that would occasionally pop in some new music from a new artist and the sound pops in your brain and you go "wow this is really amazing" and you discover a new song and sound that excites your brain. Instead you would just slowly become mentally numb listening to your infinite personalized slop.
Not only that but the entire social aspect of music is gone. It's a wonderful experience to find a person who has similar taste in music to me. I can talk about it for hours. That disappears if everyone is fed a personalized feed of extremely tailored music. If things keep going the way they are Gen Z to the Baby Boomers really did have the best childhoods. We're really making things worse for Gen Alpha on.
Also completely misses the entire idea of fucking culture. How do you get a taste in "what you like"? YOU LISTEN TO WHAT OTHERS SHOW YOU!!! That's culture: SHARED experiences.
Goddamn. The kinds of people rooting for this idea where you only listen to what you like are definitely the same ones who think the best way to meet a date is through as app. The only surprising part is that the silent majority aren't angry enough to break their apathy yet.
Absolutely. I dumped Spotify and the rest a couple years ago and went back to an mp3 player. Since leaving streamers I've discovered so much more music than I ever did with the algorithms. My old "safe" music I used to listen to seems boring by comparison.
If I wanted an undending playlist of almost identical tracks I'd just listen to AC/DC.
You know if that's your vibe then there's also Nickleback
Have you guys heard of this new band called Imagine Dragons
They played at a corporate event for my company, and I had only every heard one or two songs. After 40 minutes I got up and left because it was nothing but the same thing continuously. I am not even convinced I could tell you where the song breaks were.
Oh for the love of god, please don't tell me this was their form of employee appreciation bullshit.
I'd rather the pizza party
No. It was our yearly corporate event, and it usually closes with a local band. We were in Vegas and they were apparently local to there.
Nickelback has more variety in their songs than ACDC
Or Godsmack/Everclear
I still hoard MP3s.
I just starting to get my favourites as DRM free flac files, from qobuz and bandcamp. It is fantastic to be invested into something again, not merely be passively fed endless random stuff.
Also Cloud and streaming services can do what they want, it won't change my access to that music. Also, my library will remain slop free.
Hey, a fellow Qobuz enjoyer! We seem to be semi-rare. I've also found that some bands/artists sell directly on their website, which is pretty nifty.
MAJOR WARNING: 100% DEFINITELY NEVER scrape video sites (such as YouTube) for music using ILLEGAL PIRACY TOOLS like "yt-dlp", or "torrent" high-quality (flac) collections of music from ILLEGAL and EVIL piracy websites. Piracy is not a victimless crime; after all, YOU WOULDN'T STEAL A CAR, would you?
Psst! Bandcamp Friday's soon :3
Nah, honestly, I don't scrape anything. I can afford myself the luxury of paying artists for music I enjoy enough to get a proper digital copy in lossless quality and without DRM nonsense.
I have to say, I am probably not the typical Qobuz customer. Their recommendations really do not align with my taste in music ... at all. I am probably not distinguished enough. But they do sell lossless music and are among the better paying platforms, while having a pretty wide library, also the are among the more restrictive when it comes to AI slop (but not nearly as restrictive as I would want them to be). Interestingly I listen mostly to local music now I bought among others from them, rather than to their streaming service. I might not extend the subscription beyond this year, but I might continue to buy from them. Let's see.
I'm honestly probably dropping my subscription soon in favour of purchasing my own files. It doesn't take long to amass a fairly large collection. Scraping is good in cases where a release is unavailable elsewhere, and also... I'm not exactly made of money. Bigger artists can forgive me.
same, why pay a subscription for songs that you don't own
To discover music, and then buy the albums that actually sound pleasing to listen to.
Because paying a subscription for songs you do own wouldn't make any sense.
I use OBS to do the old "video recording in a movie theater" strategy.
I can't possibly stress how infinitely creepy and stupid this is.
I don't watch movies because I'm a fucking Avenger or astronaut or mob hit man left to die and seeking revenge. I like my media to be about things other than me.
Also, people don't like songs that are about them because the song has their name in it. They like the songs because a loving human put effort into making it.
This has all the ick of the part in Minority Report where when they walked into a store, a machine greeted them by name. But as a song.
I always wonder what they mean about personalized music. Is it like "I'm in the mood today to listen to a dark blues song... Make the lyrics about my dead dog ben in the style of _"?
Is there anyone who'd prefer that than to listen to real music made by another human that had similar feelings (of grief maybe) as you are feeling right now? To me, at least, a big point of art is being able to share and connect with others.
7 years ago, this was what it meant. Which sort of sounds like perfectly mediocre royalty-free soundtrack music.
Want some gritty Delta blues music? Sure - something that doesn't honor the experiences of the past and people, but just the right sounds mashed together. Or Jazz or rock or whatever... just sounds that sound right when next to each other. Basic LLM stuff.
I'm pretty sure they just mean an algorithm is good at figuring out the lyrics/tempo/genre of music you prefer listening to and synthesize something similar. In my case this is usually pretty situational--so until AI can figure out what my mood is it will miss pretty big at times as my workout tastes are way different than my chill or nostalgic preferences.
Don't worry, they will have you under surveillance and study your facial expressions to decide what music is approved for your current mood. All corporate approved to ensure they suppress any rebellious thoughts.
I don't think that's what they mean by personalized, though. It'd be pretty obvious if the singer began singing about me.
People that think like that seems to not engage with art enough;
Also, I really wanna see an AI bro try to make AI write lyrics like Caparezza's one, they won't be able lmao
finally, being way too much on rym pays off. Ive never needed the algorithm, all playlists are my own and idgaf about apple musics suggested ones.
no but all jokes aside its a huge fucking problem. Good reccomendations are an invaluablr service in the musical community, and the fleeting time in which it was possible to use the algorithm meaningfully to find new music relating to your tastes was actually great. Which is ofcourse also exactly why its such a big problem when ai becomes auditorily (talking about artifacting here) indistinguishable from human made, AND that they show up alongside the human made without clear distinction.
If you really care, thinking about this sstuff always pays off. Personally in the process of getting my collection self hosted on jellyfin or something. Untill then, im keeping a sharp eye on the streaming shenanigans
but also also, CHECK OUT INTERNET RADIO. Discovered it like a year ago. Its like tapping into a world wide community of music nerds. Very early internet vibes
check out 16bit.fm B.T.M and I.D.E.A for some really tasty ravish electronics or Groove.fm from brazil for some immaculate chill vibes. The dj hasnt gotten the hang of it yet, some of the most insane transitions ive heard in a while, but that just shows that theres an actual person in brazil rocking out and trying their best, and that just brightens my day every time.
Keep it real out there ✌️
i wish there was a tool to detect AI music
I accidentally “liked” one AI song on spotify. Now it’s shoving more and more AI garbage my way. There is no “do not play AI content” on spotify, you have to select each AI “band” and block them so they don’t get played.
I despise AI music. So incredibly fake and bland.
Tidal has a no AI setting that seems to be working for me
I began using Tidal a couple years ago because it has the best artist payment schema compared to the other big streaming platforms, and it's been wonderful. I transferred my playlists and stuff between the platforms, and aside from a few esoteric artists, everything that I had on Spotify was available on Tidal.
I've urged my spouse to make the change, but she listens to a lot of game and show soundtracks that aren't listed on Tidal (yet?).
Maybe try Qobuz, Bandcamp, or Soundcloud? Smaller music platforms' catalogues seem kinda random at times.
Not sure about Soundcloud, but I know Qobuz and Bandcamp have good artist payment schemes.
Bandcamp is great, particularly if I want physical merch, but the artist isn't touring near me, so I wouldn't be able to get it from their show. I hadn't heard of Qobuz, I'll check that out!
Oh yeah Bandcamp merch is awesome. I got a box set of cassettes, and they're excellent :3
I’m trying Tidal now. Unfortunatley it seems they only play clips of songs for free accounts?
Spotify push it as much as possible as it's usually made by them, so in turn they owe royalties to nobody
And YouTube Music has never once done that as far as I know. Just saying...I have no idea why everyone uses Spotify. It's always been a shit interface even before this. I know Google sucks, but they do have a good music player.
But I never listen to generalized playlist tracks like lofi beats and "study" tracks, nor do I go to the explore tab very often, so that may be why.
Who was it?
Lunariae
But there is the ability to just play from a playlist, supposedly at random without any personalized suggestions thrown in (though be careful about what shuffle mode you use because one of them inserts songs they "think you'd enjoy" (but probably actually means "save spotify money").
Yes, playlists do that, but they also exclude new music. I am constantly looking for new music, so I make stations of songs or choose one of their pre-made stations and listen to whatever spotify throws in the station.
Makes me wonder if there's a good 3rd party program or service that does music suggestion without any concern for how it will affect spotify's royalties.
Last.fm is actually pretty spot-on.
There is already so much music out there it may as well be infinite
What’s an AI going to write songs about anyway, not having enough water for its datacenter?
It will write anything you want, as long as you only want derivative drivel.
Right. Thousands of albums come out a day and these dorks really think any normal person would instead choose to listen to slop. Finding a weird unique artist making something you've never heard before is so much fun and something AI could never accomplish.
"I need 45,000 gallons of water a week to run at full capacity, but the county water authority only lets me use 23,000 ... I got the water blues!"
The interesting thing about music is that tastes changes over time, and it is rather fun to find a song you hated when released, which you now love, sometimes partily due to the fact that you hated it in the first place.
Another issue with AI music is that it can't really surprise you, if everything is generated for you, the created music will just become more and more narrow in scope as you keep listening to the same slop causing the models to keep regurgitating the same shit, but more "refined".
There are plenty of times when I have heard a completely new song from a genre I haven't really liked before, only now, i love it.
That's me and Linkin Park. Used to think it's such a broody and edgy music but once in adulthood it's became more and more relatable. The reverse is true for music i once loved and now it sound so janky.
When did you realized that their music was crawling in your skin? Or was it because you were numb to their music when you were younger? Does that mean that in the end, your first impression to music doesn't even matter?
See, now I'm the opposite with Linkin Park. As a kid/teen I loved them. Hybrid Theory was the one CD I had that I knew would appeal to almost everyone who was riding in the same car as me.
As I got older, I started understanding the lyrics more and more. There's so much pain embedded in that album. I listen to the lyrics and I hear somebody who's been severely hurt, who's writing and singing out their emotions, which have no other place to go.
Then Chester Bennington offed himself, and now the pain jumps out at me with the same intensity as the light from an on-coming headlight. I haven't been able to listen to Linkin Park since 2017 for that reason. All I hear now is a suffering man that can't be helped, and it tears me apart.
Maybe some day things will change again. Perhaps I'm still in mourning. A time may come where I listen to Linkin Park and feel more of a nostalgic joy, or a sense of respect due to knowing what hell Chester endured as he created something incredible. I'm just not there yet.
What about Emily?
I love it when a new album comes out from one of my favorite bands and I bounce off of a song initially for it to end up as one of my favorites after repeat listens.
Random new addins are what makes a playlist great. If I know the playlist, it’s not as interesting or compelling. It’s why car radio was a thing many enjoyed, the utterly random element.
Why can't they figure out infinite personalized income instead?
If you told tech bros UBI is actually an AI based algorithm distributing money with the aim of stimulating the economy, they'd be all over it
They are doing that right on the picture.
My idea of hell is hearing infinite music for the first time.
I like new music, but first listen is always the hardest. music grows on me - rare is the song that i love at first listen.
I like how this person confidently thinks that the only reason nobody else wants to listen to their slop is because it’s just from an old model. It couldn’t possibly be their lack of taste.
Infinite personalized happiness is narcotics injected straight into your bloodstream. Personalized happiness is the trivial null solution of multiplying by zero to solve an equation. It is achieving thermodynamic equilibrium indistinguishable from a static cold dead rock. The more interesting feat is achieving a dynamic happiness and harmonic responsive to the comings and goings of diverse and varied travelers, none of whom are guaranteed to be safe, and for that, are made all the more interesting.
wut?
Read it again, and slowly. Take your time to let it sink in.
got it
That's poetry!
The worst is that statement sounds so much like he never had any emotion listening to music.
He was never blasted by something he couldn't imagine before, and he thinks finding new things one like is just a mash-up of what one has heard before already.
Are these guys fucking humans??
I can't tell you how many tech bros I've seen who suggest listening to music is a waste of time. In their words, why listen to music when you could be listening to a podcast and learning something?
These people have optimized their lives in such a way that they are close to inhuman.
Welcome to the concept of psychopaths.
They gave up their humanity to be what they are.
Lol, that's always been my impression when these guys talk about AI making art and stuff, it's obvious these people never saw an art piece that moved them deeply and indescribably, they think it's just a matter of putting the nice colors in a certain way.
Last weekend I went to a concert. I could see the excitement in the faces of the band as I, along with the whole club, were shouting along with them. Good luck to AI to replace that.
Now what if that band was a bunch of underage anime girls instead?
Somebody was telling me about a Babymetal concert and I was like...you paid money to listen to that? To each their own I guess
This line of thinking makes sense if you see music as product that generates revenue.
Instead of having pesky humans spend time in studios crafting you can have a machine just generate it for a fraction of the price much quicker. More music = more money. More content = more money
Now to a layperson the above sounds insane. It’s the massive disconnect that’s fueling the AI Hysteria.
Most laypeople would be fine with it, which is the problem.
I don't think so. I talked with my mum recently about random stuff and it came up that she said "nothing goes above live music. Sitting in a café, someone playing on their instrument..."
So, I don't believe that any of our mums here generate their own infinite personalised music.
The more content, the less valuable they are.
People like this truly don't understand what most people actually enjoy about music...
Music is an artistic expression of some human being's thoughts and personality. Yeah, you might enjoy the melody, rhythm or chord progression of a song. But there's also so much embedded in the emotional content and lyrical themes, as well as the character of the performer(s) themselves.
Take The Beatles for example... You might like the music or not. You might like the people or not.
But odds are you know at least something about who Paul, John, George and Ringo were, at least in their public/creative personas. Even a basic listener can sense the catchy pop songwriting that comes so naturally to Paul McCartney, and they can also pick up on the artsy psychedelic vibes of John Lennon's contributions. On top of that, someone with an ear for music can hear a quintessential George Harrison guitar lick, or a classic Ringo Starr drum fill.
The Beatles were a pop culture sensation, not just because of their music, but also because of who they were as people--and that's basically true for every famous artist or musician, because personality is extremely important.
I think people would be a lot less interested in songs that were entirely detached from humanity, and so I can't imagine a future where anyone ever gives even the smallest shit about some slop song generated using stolen music on some app.
no. Most people enjoy music as a conformitive activity they can use to socialise with. That's what you don't realise. Top 40 has always been slop. The talented and expressive have always been pushed to the sidelines.
It’s funny to me that you say this in response to a post referencing the Beatles. Are you saying that the Beatles are slop? I ask because you can’t possibly be arguing that they were pushed to the sidelines.
IDK, do you think they were forced to get side jobs to support their, subtle, nuanced and virtuosic composition and instrumental prowess?
Edit: the band who said "Ringo isn't the world's best drummer; he's not even the best drummer in the Beatles". That one?
"Infinite personalized" has invaded every surface of media. We need to go one step further back, find our own content creators, watch and reward them. We're selling our eyeballs to the highest bidding corporation.
That's one reason I left radio. Music chosen by an algorithm, as far back as the 80s.
Other reasons too, but that's another story.
There is more music published by humans daily than anyone can listen to in the their entire lifetime.
It's true. And that's as it should be.
Especially right now. There is so much good stuff right now, it's like a new 90s, imo. Even some of the pop stuff. And Japan is doing crazy shit mixing pop and metal. I'm seeing some of it tonight, in fact 🥳
Its the golden age of niche/indie music
I'm not even 100% in the fuck AI camp. But I don't want AI music, I want music from the bands and artists I like. I like finding new music I've never heard and adding that artist to my list.
If they have a bad song, or a bad album, I want that. That's something to talk about to other fans of the artist. I only like songs from 2 albums from Arctic Monkeys, but I really like those songs.
It's impressive when virtually every song from a band I enjoy. I can rank them in mind, oh I really like three days grace from when Adam was the singer. I don't want generic this is fine music 24/7. Or even "this is good" music 24/7. Sometimes I like a song because the beat, sometimes it's relatable, sometimes it's funny.
I like picking music when I'm at a gathering and people saying "oh my name always plays good music". Sometimes if I show up late and someone's playing music, they stop it and ask me to start playing music, that feels good. I can't imagine just throwing on generic AI pop or something in those situations.
*Edit: I also like when I'm out and about and hear something I like that I've never heard, and I get to Shazam it to see what it is, and now I've got a new song or artist to listen to.
Art speaks to humanity. There is no art here.
I still listen to music in the old ways. Random recommendations from friends, artisanally pirated and served off of a dedicated MP3 player device with wired headphones.
There's no way for AI music to sneak in.
Streaming services are going to be force feeding you this crap soon, it's way cheaper for them and enough people will keep subscribing to make it profitable.
I fuckin hate suno.
Oh don't worry I noticed AI slop in Spotify two years ago and deleted my account
Personalized music? Yeah man, I learned to play guitar and now I can make infinite personalized music wherever I want. Never needed a computer for that
So can I, as long as the genre is "poorly played".
And it's not like there isn't enough music.
Or that it's too expensive.
Or that automated curation wasn't very good before "AI." See: Pandora, 20 years ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_Genome_Project
In other words, even playing devil's advocate from the perspective of an AI bro, the only "problem to solve" is predatory distributors. That is an age-old issue, but worshipping another corporate service is doing precisely nothing to make it better, either.
Automatic curation wasn't very good. Pandora and other tools tried to do it, and they had some success, but it wasn't like having a friend who would say "oh, you like X, you should really listen to Y".
Pandora and similar tools would say "oh, you listened to X, you must like music with distortion on the guitar, a lead female singer...". But, that kind of soul-less take on music often meant the suggestions were really bad. Yes, in n-dimensional space, it was able to find music that was a short distance from other music. But, that's not why people like what they like.
So, discovery really was (and still is) a problem that needs solving. But, the bigger issue is money.
A lot of people want to make money from music. Even musicians sometimes care about money. But, honestly, a lot of them would be making music regardless of the money, as long as they could afford to feed themselves.
The real people who care about money are the companies that own the IP for the music. They want you to listen to their music because when you do that they get paid. That means their goal isn't for you to find something you enjoy listening to, it's for you to select something that they make money from. That also means they want to interfere with anything that might make good suggestions for you because it might direct you away from what makes them money.
So, now on one side you have companies that want to sell you a tool that exactly meets your music desires, by believably simulating emotion, playing ability, and everything else, but one that can only interpolate from what it has been trained on, and can never innovate. On the other side are the companies that want you to choose anything you want, as long as it's from their catalogue and they make some money from it, and if it's not from their catalogue they'd prefer you never hear it. Everyone sucks here.
I'm not so sure automated curation is "not very good".
The #1 response I see from people about leaving Spotify and other services in favor of directly buying from artists is... Discoverbility of new music.
While I personally prefer music discovery through friends, local venues, Tiny Desk Concerts, KEXP, and other human led experiences; I will not discount how valuable and the usefulness of the Music Genome Project and Pandora, or Spotify/Tidal/etc music discovery tools. And I'll also AIT that some of my favorite music has come through these automated tools.
I'm not sure if this sentence is saying people are leaving Spotify because it's bad for discoverability, or not leaving because other methods are bad for discoverability, or what.
But, assuming you're saying that people keep using Spotify because it helps them discover new music. Sure, I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I'm just saying it's not very good, and it's not a solved problem. It's better than nothing, and if you directly buy from artists what you're left with is basically nothing.
Personally, I've never found any new artist I care about via a tool. I found Too Many Zoos through viral social media. I love their stuff. I don't remember how I heard about Khruangbin, but it also have been social media. I don't think a tool would have found either of those for me because I wasn't listening to anything that sounded like them.
Well, it also stretched the preception of authenticity to near breaking point.
Many don't really think about it, but a reason why many listen to music is the assumption that it's someone expressing authentic ideas, whether its the lyrics or the beat or something else. Music is a story. It moves lisateners because they connect it to something in their lives, however trivial it may be.
Songs completely, automatically artifically generated are neat if you don't know that, and many listeners don't. But that ignorance is not sustainable. Beyond "background music" or some Tiktok-like ephemeral dopamine, what's the point of music where the whole story is a lie?
FYI I'm not coming at this from the pure "anti-AI angle," and I think machine learning as a tool for artists (especially small artists) is interesting.
What I'm asserting is that "generated music" path is completely unsustainable. It's self destructive, in the short term, and it will lose attention to other forms of media. And I think that makes it completely from the "broken IP hoarding" music model. As dysfunctional as it is, it has endured forever.
I'm so sick of these people.
Can they go live on mars or something and leave us troglodytes with our human music and drawing?
Why don't we save them the trip and asphyxiate them in New Mexico.
His description of a selling point sounds like it too was generated by AI. The whole point of art is to be challenged by the expression of someone else’s point of view. Only narcissistic tech bros would find this idea of “infinite personalized music” appealing.
Make noise for music's sake.
Me "I like this song, it's probably one of my favourites."
AI "great to hear, I have made 100 songs that sound the same or very similar to it and added them to your playlist for you to listen to"
Me "I fucking hate that song"
I liked Spotify's personalized playlist algo for years, but this was Pre-AI.
Once they started unilaterally inserting suggested tracks, I was done. This was also before they went full bore into AI Slop.
I loved Pandora for finding new artists. Spotify recommendations are generic.
I'm glad you had a platform you liked. I didn't care for Pandora.
If you wanted something specific Pandora was awful. But I just treated it like a boundless ipod shuffle.
It took me a minute to understand what "2-3" generations meant. Usually when you're talking about music, that would encompass a span of several decades.
I was confused, like "Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young were AI...?"
But no, he meant "generations of generative AI," because AI bros like to use completely REGULAR WORDS that people know and understand according to their usual usage, as if they're some highly technical terms specific to the AI industry.
"Intelligence" "Generations" mf these are regular fucking words! Stop using them as if they have these specificialized meanings, or at the very least use modifiers such as "artificial" or "GenAI" so that people know what you're actually talking about!
Drives me fucking crazy, like they live in such a bubble that they forget what regular words mean to the rest of people.
2-3 generations of models
then prove it. buy albums on bandcamp or steam. remember when we used have pride in our album collection? here's mine https://bandcamp.com/thejoyo
Yo, friendly reminder to everyone "Bandcamp Friday" is coming up! Time to knock out that wishlist and pitch a few bucks towards "pay what you want"s. <3
You don't want it, I don't want it. But you know who does want it? Business. It's simply a business model to increase profits. And they're doing what business does to shape public opinion into a desire for this product. And just like Sony not releasing GTA 6 on a physical disc, if enough people spend money on this "product" then business will have an incentive to continue pushing this shit.
Also, they don't have to pay artists if there is no artist.
There are artists, unfortunately.
They stole it from us.
AI music also can't be copyrighted, so feel free to steal from them all you want. Could be a great source for sound samples to build beats. No royalty splits for stolen AI samples.
You need to anchor information in something.
It's how you don't need infinite personalized family pictures, too, you need the real ones and those few/many good memories.
The reason they are doubling down on this is, I think, the financial and emotional investment into the idea that a communication medium can produce a new message, a search engine can add value other than search of what you know you're looking for, and so on.
It's how since my socially dysfunctional childhood I wanted a 3D sandbox world where you can make and live "anything", but felt that to be strange and unreachable, that's because one wants to make and live specific things threaded together into one life.
Or, similarly, a deus ex machina like these LLMs. Something that takes ungodly amounts of data and gives evaluations that look like magic.
Also thank god people made that crap so I'm no longer excited.
So, getting back to these people, the possibility of such things and popular belief into them are what gives them jobs. This won't stop until impossible to maintain.
EDIT:
What I mean is that, say, there's garbage collection in programming languages, and it's done by tracking referenced objects with references leading to some root ultimately, like an environment linking objects to their bodies, tra-la-la.
Societies and cultures are not radically different, just if you build search and information discovery (including commercially available content) on such reference graphs, advertising dies and platforms die. And most importantly, generated content dumped into the network dies as a source of advertising revenue and attention, because it has the references erased, it won't be found in such a search system.
(I have a conspiracy theory that Aaron Schwartz was pressed to suicide because his work could evolve to threaten search engines and social networks, on their blietzkrieg at the moment. RSS is a step in that direction, there was also the semantic web that didn't take off.)
These people are usually not stupider than me, definitely, so I think they can see this too, that they are sort of boat drivers near a waterfall.
Of course nothing will die, it's like any other thing in history, if things developing peacefully and naturally kill your farm, you go and kill that natural peaceful development and make something else. If you can. It's a matter of resulting power balance.
So, before someone reading this silently discards this as idiocy or smartassery, it's an opinion (like any other).
EDIT2:
The references comparison is not to hyperlinks than anyone can post. It's to transparent connections like PGP web of trust, smart contracts. To make gathering of content to be indexed similar to garbage collection built on smart contracts, based on trust to authors and human-made lists like web directories of old. That would make it decentralized and resilient to slop and spam. Also almost unusable for advertising and "Google, tell me what to look for, I don't know that myself", so probably nobody would want that.
Would also require something content-addressable, partially, and more like Usenet in the sense of being centered around groups and their posts (linkable), not services you connect to.
Anyway, that's a mania again. I can't even build a fucking Forth system for a few weekends already. Only started something resembling it yesterday evening.
For me hearing songs I don't like that much make me appreciate the music I like even more.
Shitty moral compass, greedy dumbass, AND bad taste!
Sign me up!!
I mean... I want infinite music that matches my tastes. I just want it to be created by an infinite amount of meat beings.
I dunno. I think having it limited let's me appreciate it more, and search it out which is half of the fun.
I'd take non-meat brings too, but they'd have to be beings.
"infinite personalized music"?
Motherfucker, I've been listening to this song on repeat for a week.
Narcissistic little bastards
honey what's wrong, you didn't finish listening to your mafia music for dangerous minds playlist
Not fussed personally...
Also Pulaski was right about Data playing instruments.
If I want "personalised" music, I'll make it by my own which is why I'm learning about music production and music theory.
Infinite music but no music
Infinite music, with no art.
as opposed to the corporate slop that people have been listening to
Does he think that's the only reason people listen to music?
Who was using Shitify, et al in the first place? If I'm paying for music I'm buying a CD, SACD, etc or lossless download, without ads. I sure won't pay, over and over again, for the same lossy streaming version. That's just crazy!
I'm still listening to a lot of the same bands from the 90s, now on vinyl. Why would I give a fuck about generated slop lol
That's sad too, to be honest.
I don't get it. If new music stopped getting made right now, I'd still have enough music to last many lifetimes. I don't need a regurgitation machine to come in and spew slop into my ears.
Those idiots probably never to listen to a local cover band in the pub. They don't get the whole human experience, I reckon.
I can't think of anything worse than music that's personalized to me. And I'm not even talking about the many ethical issues around AI either. It would suck on its own terms.
Infinite personalized music is why I have Beyonce chained up in the guest room. Who needs AI for that?
Release her or i thaw Mariah Carey.
You fool. The thawing process has already begun and will be complete by November 1st as foretold by the ancient prophecies. Can't you hear the bells jingling already? Run, run while you still can!
I have enough music theory knowledge to be able to pull apart a song and examine the chord progression, the usage of certain instruments, and so on in order to objectively analyze what kind of effect they were probably going for.
This is totally different from experiencing, enjoying, and appreciating a song.
I think they dont realize that you can have both. They want all of the former and none of the latter.
They are over... because of AI. I'm completely done with them and am already growing my mp3/flac collection.
Once you go FLAC, you won't go back.
I want AI that can scrub my database of 100,000 products and unify the naming conventions. But it's too dumb for that. Of course pop music is formulaic garbage so of course AI can do it, the same way dogshit popular bands have been doing it for decades.
It's absolutely not though, that's literally one of the main reasons we've been making AI for and I'm not at all talking about the LLMs.
You have a link or something, because yeah the LLMs are dogshit at it lol
Can I not have both? Why can't a real human band create infinite, personalized music just for me?
That'd be expensive, but it's basically what a lot of classical composers did for a living.
If I was filthy rich, I'd have a staff of musicians working on shifts to cover 24/7 live music.
It would also be funny to have a tuba player play a note every time I took a step.
I listen to edm mostly now and I have more artists/songs than I can listen to. I don't undertaand the need for ai, think ppl just suck at discovering songs. I usually end up with 100 or so that take me weeks to get tired of any time I go looking and 100s more queued to listen to later.
Same I don't think I ever see AI music. Sometimes yes I wish I could just have my favorite song except different and it sucks going through a bunch of trash to find the next thing but I don't see how AI would change that.
I do want infinite personalized music and that's why I have an electric guitar and a chase bliss mood
I wish that me cancelling my subscription would do something. I just know that there will be new generations, new markets that will absorb the loss until they have new users and think of this as the new normal.
Yeah I wish that my limited gestures at boycotting the worst companies would do something, but I have to remind myself that even if I'm not going to take down Nestlé, Starbucks, Tesla et al single-handedly, at least I'm not being complicit.
"Infinite personalized music" means I pick my own playlist, instead whatever nonsense the radio, or some other platform shovels at me. I don't want the help of some computer.
People are literally abandoning streaming due to the over "personalisation" pigeonholing them into the same shit.
Still a joke. If this was a serious point, they'd have followed it up with any example of such very, very good AI music.
Just another "trust me bro" about how much better it's going to be in the future ... while we're being flooded with shitty slop right now.
When I was getting my tyres replaced last year, the waiting room at the shop was playing an endless stream of a.i. generated music - they used to play actual music. After an hour of that I wanted to kill myself. It's just stuff to fill the silence. I guess there's a market for it among the likewise soulless.
Ian Bogost had a nice essay about that last year:
https://web.archive.org/web/20251005073139/https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2025/07/velvet-sundown-ai-band-spotify/683410/
Personally I disagree. Listening to deeply moving music turns even the dullest task into an adventure.
I'm happy I moved everything over to Navidrome. I use a few useful plugins and ListenBrainz to get playlists generated based on my own music, without any of that AI garbage.
I try to support artists by buying online or picking up CDs when I'm out and about. That said, I admit I do use the *arr stack too; a lot of albums are either impossible to find or cost way too much.
I have no limits or restrictions; I can invite family members without having to pay double or triple for a new subscription, I’m finally listening to music the way it’s meant to be heard.
This is the way. I have yet to come into contact with an AI generated song.
Also, heads-up: tomorrow's Bandcamp Friday!
I wanted a parody of Michael Jacksons "beat it" with different words. Parody is legitimately fair use in terms of copyright. AI model wouldn't even attempt it. We all know it's in the training dataset but they don't want to admit it.
You should ask for a parody version of Eat It by Weird Al with different words
You know, I bought an album on Bandcamp yesterday after sampling a (too) short part of it. I was in the mood for something new, I rolled the dice and it turns out I don't love their sound. I kinda enjoy the deception. It's a human feeling. Next week I'll try some other human's music and maybe I'll regret spending 10$ again, but it will at least have gone to the artist, regardless of how I feel about their music. And that feels good.
I'll be honest with you, this is one of the things I rarely notice when it's AI, so this is theoretically targeted at me ...
... but I still refuse to seek out AI music or support platforms that allow it for the sake of principle.
I've been listening to this song quite a bit recently (sometimes three times a day). There is somewhat of a rhythm and beat of course, but it takes a back seat to the vocalists story. One I understand. I know for a fact there will never be ai "music" that makes me feel like ripping out someones throat and repeatedly smashing their head into the ground. Rarely does any song bring that out of me.
It's not a technically impressive song (well maybe how soft the drums are) but the way the message is communicated is visceral and real and is something ai and it's soulless supporters will never understand.
watch?v=ShDocSCuiIUMe who listens to the same 5 albums on YouTube for free over and over.
🤷
Reminds me of a part of reading Mother Horse Eyes, where a person is basically living in VR.
AI could never make anything new. It could only remix existing things to make them seem new. People would put together some of those mixes to make a better experience, but eventually they also got replaced with AI. That's when the demons showed up.
Errr...creating problems and selling solutions for them is standard business practice.
Aside from a few funny lyrical "moments" when done on purpose, AI music fucking sucks.
This is such an insane take. Imagine being a music artist releasing an album and saying "I don't have to listen to other artists anymore because I have my own personalized music". Music, whether it's made by humans or not, is pretty much the exact opposite of that. It's meant to be shared, passed along, influence and be influenced.
Besides, it's really weird to me that AI bros keep trying to sell this (or other gen AI tools) as the ultimate replacement for actual artists and actual creativity. It doesn't have to be. I've had an on-and-off active subscription on Suno between v3.5 and V5, and honestly it's fun. It's its own kind of experience that has little to nothing in common with actual music making. It's entertaining to very quickly make stupid songs about your friends and family or come up with lyrics and see what it does with it or mix the craziest genres you can think of. There is even creativity involved if you use it with a creative mindset, as in its own ways it can force you to think a bit more intently about things like genre or rhythm or metric. But at the end of the day I never once thought to make my silly experiments available commercially, pass them off as my own, use parts of them in my own music, or anything of the sort. It's so easy to draw the line, yet there is this constant push to blur it.
I make funny songs for my wife and friends on Suno. We all share a good laugh. But when I listen to music in the car or at home, I want actual humans. So I'm with you 100%.
Form a collective and hire musicians. Or get slop the rest of your life.
I used to think the internet would be fantastic for music. It gave small artists (small as in not on a major label, not small like Lilliputians) a path for distribution.
Around 2000 it was really good. Lots of websites popped up for indie bands. I found a TON of music during this time.
After a few years this got saturated by lots of indie artists with GarageBand. The quality of the music started to fall making it harder to find more seasoned musicians and songs that were more than a simple looped riff.
Now musicians have AI slop to contend with making it even harder to find quality indie artists.
That's just swell.
" Oh the hours I spent in the archives wearing cotton gloves Shuffling photos from the night at Sanatorium Halloween parties Emaciated ghosts hiding in those curtains' creases I'll let you haunt the world when I write my master's thesis "
I'm not a poet or a scholar of poetry, so this might be small potatoes in the grand scheme of things...
But the density of that verse is equivalent to a black hole. It's the intersection of like 30 human lives across multiple time periods and contexts. The unfathomable density of the human experience... I'm confident in saying no model is anywhere close to being close to being close.
But they not joking!
Can anyone provide an example of some of this AI music? Does it hold up at all if you look into the supposed artist at all? Is there like a virtual Sabrina Carpenter, or something? Is Electric Callboy actually made of electricity, because shit, I saw them live, and it was pretty convincing.
Once again into the breech into the argument of ethical AI usage in music.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZ0BOEOtD2U
Doubt AI can nail down some of my favorite music from bands like “The Blood Brothers - burn piano island burn” or any “The locust” music.
I love it when they confidently say "[x] is solved". They have to make up bullshit "problems" to have the slop "solve".
They will never understand that art is not something to be solved. It's not a problem that needs fixing.
Please, would people start checking themselves. That or you better be at my bands next performance in the Starbucks parking lot by the mall. You say you love the art form but literal artist dying on the vine since the day I was born.
And if you dont care enough to support little Geoffrey's funkadelic phase with his keyboard in the basement you don't care about this.
I hope you fucking down vote me and get your ass out to the next music and arts festival but god knows you will only participate in the former.
welcome to a niche, I guess. I'm a part of quite a few of those. Turns out my wallet isn't big enough to carry an industry. or my rent. Sorry bro.
Maybe in another timeline I'm a super rich dude and I can single-handedly support independent art financially.
Music is not a niche and I wouldnt put the industry on your back.
I grew up when MTV played music videos. If you dont understand that you dont understand where im coming from. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8r-tXRLazs
There's other art than music. And genres within music. I wouldn't call myself a "music guy" but I do support other forms of art.
And weird random computer generated music.
If youre arguing for diversity then you shouldn't mind AI music.
If youre arguing for art to be restricted to human creators you should indiscriminately support it through government programs, local initiatives, and places of learning. Otherwise no one is incentivtized to do it.
well we come full circle back to the main topic and hit the paradox of tolerance. Someone trying to claim "Spotify, Apple Music, and Streaming in general is over" is not someone trying to embrace diversity and carve out a new road to potentially explore. They are stating an intent to conquer and extinguish.
I don't have a problem with the concept of AI music, but I do with the kinds of people it seems to attract. So yeah, I can't really support someone who simply sees art as an algorithm to "solve" and dismisses human made music as "obsolete".
I do. But it's not like I fund all art equally. I play a lot more video games than I listen t soundtracks, and I watch a lot more animation than I do plays. Art is diverse and you pick and choose what to consume or make for yourself.
That's all I was saying when I said "I wouldn't call myself a music guy"
Circling back to the post, the first person sounds like a child. AI doesnt exist without real creators and people still listen to gregorian chant.
I take it the author is done with using other music services but either way its naivety.
Eitherway the response is equally pig headed. "No one wants personalized music?" I dont even know what it is but to learn i dont even want it before finding out is pretty surprising.
No tech bro has tried to sell me ai art. No tech bro is knocking on my door asking me to buy AI music. Will capitalists try? Probably. Will I be just as disgusted by every other capitalist venture. Probably. Will I roll in the slop like the consumer slut that I am. Again, yes. Then there will be the shame and depression but no where along the way does either of these peoples opinions matter to me.
I wish it was as easy to point to as that. Instead they are just trying to slowly poison the pool and then claim "see, you've been drinking AI the whole time!"
I sure do wish it was just naive kids gushing over it. Perhaps as someone in the creative field I simply am destined to hear it a lot more since it's become a trillion dollar racket that the powers that be so desperately want to say works. It's well past the "I can just ignore this" stage for me.
I could see this as an alternative to radio if you don't want to pay much attention to it. But who is paying for this? It isn't worth anything.
If it was some FOSS project then it would make some sense, but it isn't.
As much as I hate AI as a concept and the people who own it, putting my own lyrics in Suno and get a mockup of what it might sound like is fun and helps me develop my own ideas.
I'm not a singer so can't record the voice myself, but i can have my own arrangement and dl the vocal stems to use as a placeholder.
Fuck people who use AI to make money and cheat others, but for personal use to learn it can be pretty useful.
What they are referring to - isn't that called "muzak"?
Is this the death knell of music?
Of course not, although it might be the death of commercial crap music, which is fine.
There will always be real musicians, making real music.
I know I'm supposed to hate all things AI when it comes to content creation but I do like me some viking AI rap when working out.
Weak. There's plenty of very real Viking metal (and rap) to listen to while working out
The only acceptable use of AI in music making is micro-sampling. If it helps you design a crazy new synth sound, cool, but a human better be playing that synth.
Purely genAI music sounds like trash.
There is no acceptable use of AI. It's unethical turtle feces all the way down.
This is ridiculous, of course there's abunch of benefits.
It's like acknowledging the devastation unfettered capitalism has on society and democracy and also see that some of the products it helped create help in everyday life.
Is that enough of a reason not to oppose capitalism? Hell no. But if it's there and helps me I'm gonna use it.
AI is fucking great for learning tech. It's the implementation and people who own it who suck, the tech itself is very very useful.
It's ok to discern nuances.