California Gov. Gavin Newsom is floating a federal tax boycott
As tensions escalate between California and the Trump administration over immigration, another potential battlefront is emerging over taxes.
The spat began with reports that the Trump administration is considering cutting funding for California's university system, the largest higher education system in the nation with about 12% of all U.S. enrolled students.
In response, Gov. Gavin Newsom wrote Friday afternoon in a social media post that California provides about $80 billion more in taxes to the federal government than it receives in return.
"Maybe it's time to cut that off, @realDonaldTrump," Newsom said.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/california-gavin-newsom-federal-tax-boycott-trump-what-to-know/Open linkView original on lemmy.world1421
Comments259
Fucking do it. I'll cum buckets.
I don't think there's really a way to do this, since federal taxes are paid directly to the fed without state involvement. This is just to poke the bear, which I am all for.
Companies, no. But the state employs a lot of people.
And county, and cities
Still, the feds will come after the individuals, not the state.
Good. Keep poking until he has a heart attack. If he recovers, rinse and repeat until we get it right.
I’m all for it too, but keep in mind that successors to dictators are never better; only worse. It only ever gets worse.
Hide your kids. Hide your couch!Yeah but there seems to be something about this fucking guy. I don’t think his successor will have the same draw.
This dictator is the leader of the GOP, a cult of personality. That's not easily replaced
This dictator is merely a puppet; plain and simple. The real Palpatine is someone else. Maybe it’s Putin, or maybe it’s Thiel. We haven’t gotten to that episode yet.
But this puppet is who the cultists at the bottom support. They won't get their support for anyone else so easily, if they even need them at that point.
I would argue that now that the GOP has all three branches of government, Darth Trump is expendable.
The hypothetical way to do it is severely penalize companies within California that pay federal tax. Make it so financially burdonsome they have to relocate or stop paying federal tax of their own accord. This is just what's been suggested before when this has come up.
Yeah, given his history and it's pretty fair to assume Trump doesn't know that
I thought you were going to talk about the physical improbability of cumming buckets.
This is a test comment. Will delete.
No don't, I love this comment.
I've been thinking about this, and I'm afraid I agree. I'm not sure how you could enforce this. Paying federal tax seems like a personal choice and the consequences would be felt by individuals (tax evasion charges, unless trump manages to get it treated as a terrorist act). I'd be interested to see if the state was actually offering to shield CA citizens from being arrested by federal agents or subpoenaed by federal courts.
Also, for the most part the Fed already has our money, right? The majority of that federal tax is withheld from paychecks and goes directly to the Fed...
You can withhold paying your federal taxes from your paycheck. Most people don't because they don't want to get stuck with a big tax bill in April with no way to pay it if they spent that money or lost it on a bad investment. if enough people all did that at once, regardless of state, it could put a big financial burden on Trump. The government heavily relies on this steady source of income, and unless you make a lot of money, you are probably getting a federal return every year, which means you gave the U.S. Government an interest free loan of sorts.
You also get hit with an underpayment penalty if you do this and don’t pay estimated taxes too.
Be sure to hydrate if you do.
It'll be like a firehose connected to a main
I don't think I want a bucket coming out if that particular hole.
Prude.
Sounds painful.
Holy fucking shit. I'm amazed, I was just saying the other day that this would eventually get into this point. Didn't think it'd be this week
Fascism only has one speed: Blitzkrieg.
Any other speed would be slow enough for people to have enough time to band together and organize a resistance to this horseshit.
That's literally the only playbook. Break everything: Go fast. Hit people with so much horseshit they are still stuck trying to process the one from 2 weeks ago, because since then 5 other constitutional crisis' have happened and now they're deporting both of your neighbors.
That's not really the case, though. This rise of fascism has been building for decades now. It's been a slow, steady, drip drip drip. Perhaps not so noticeable except from the outside - Americans are embedded in a pervasive atmosphere of propaganda. The Republicans have been getting more and more authoritarian over the years, more and more extreme, and the Democrats have been letting them. It's been more than four years since the last violent coup attempt, after all, and those were the same people behind this play.
It's not progressing fast. You just haven't noticed its progress until now, when it's nearly done.
We're not talking about the rise of fascism. It took decades for that to ferment in Germany and Italy as well.
We're talking about when they seize power. Then they make their move.
We're talking about the powergrab of fascists once they've laid the groundwork.
That's the part they need to move lightning fast to achieve a result, before resistance can organize against them. That's the part in history we're at right now.
Tom8to, tom@to, IMO. The "groundwork-laying" is also a process of seizing power, there just aren't quite so many guns going bang.
I think it could be just tom@o
You say tom8o tom@o, I say tom8to tom@to.
What's a tomatto?
I actually say tomarto haha
America has been fascist since the early 1910s, busting unions and putting capital first. Then Banana Republics were formed because democracy got in the way. And then half of Africa was invaded with American bases and money in an effort to bring the scattered oil fields under American corporate control. And India lost tens of thousands of lives to an American corporate disaster and no one could challenge the super military force guaranteeing popular democracy around the world (except where people actually heeled business interests).
America has been a fascist superpower for over a century. It's professional name is neoliberalism.
More people really ought to read Against The Fascist Creep.
A better way to describe it is logistic growth. It reaches a certain tipping point, accelerates to the maximum rate, then slowly slowing down to some sort of equilibrium.
At this rate they'll be deploying the Marines to LA's streets by July!
Um aren't they doing this now?
It is, sorry - I am making a sardonic joke about how American democracy is collapsing unexpectedly fast
Oops sorry
Aren't the Marines sworn to uphold the constitution? WTF?
I didn’t expect it to be Gavin Newsom. Pleastly suprised
In a shocking twist rural Californian conservatives now want to pay federal taxes.
If blue states were to band together and do this, it would bankrupt Trump’s fascist federal government pretty quickly. Maybe a blue state Articles of Confederation is in order.
There's a bigger thing people tend to forget: shipping ports. There aren't a lot of natural harbors on the west coast of North America. California has three of them (LA, Long Beach, San Fransisco) and Washington has two (Seattle and Tacoma).
Want to trade anything with the rest of the world? The east coast and Mississippi ports aren't going to cut it. Don't want to trade anything? The US economy just went into depression.
I would recommend getting armed if this were to happen...just in case.
I'm not mad at this at all I'm thrilled a politician is actually fighting back. He has a history of standing up against trump and the gop status quo
That said this is the first time there is any bite to it and the cynic/realist in me is saying it's cause he is gearing up for presidential nomination and election. I really hope he is not the Democrat choice.
if the good wife/fight taught me anything the democrats already have someone picked out and priming public for itI just wish we had Bernie i wanna see that timline :'(
I want the timeline where Carter won a second term and the Christian nationalists funding Reagan realized their plan didn't work and give up on it.
Or how about a timeline where we didn't immediately give up on
RestorationReconstruction after the Civil WarEDIT: derp.
You're thinking of Reconstruction. Restoration is just a worthless school of magic.
Lol derp. Fixed.
Just reminded me of "Sliders"...
i want the timeline where harris won lol
Harris lost before she ran. Not that she was a strong candidate, but the Dems could have ran literal Jesus, Trump was going to come back either way as long as big money was in politics. Maybe if they ran someone who at least promised change, they could have staved off Trump for another 4 years. Would they have sentenced him in another 4 years? Would anyone been able to get people like Thiel and Musk out of politics?
This will get worse before it gets better. I just hope most of it stays contained in the US.
Trump's health has been declining pretty rapidly, especially his mental health. I won't be surprised if he doesn't make it to the end of this term. And if he does I'm not sure he'd be mentally capable of running in 2028
And what precedent does it set for US civil society that he was allowed to get away with it? This shit is poison to a free civil society.
Unfortunately, they tend to try harder when it doesn't work the first time. The first attempts at the Prosperity Gospel, prior to WWII, were laughed off because it was so obviously self-serving to rich people. They kept at it until it stuck.
If history has taught me anything, the dems will run schumer.
No way, Amy Schumer?!!1?
But yeah history is better data than the good wife lol
CA is the forth largest economy; it would destroy the red state fuckheads if they stopped paying federal taxes. The rest of us follow suit and we defund the motherfuckers stinking up the government.
If you are sending our military against OUR OWN FUCKING PEOPLE we should not be PAYING FOR IT. My taxes don't go to that fascist bullshit
🖕🤬🖕 Fuck drumpf and every bootlicker that got him (probably illegally) elected
Indeed, cbsnews. What is a “donor state”?
Maybe if you could use that term a few dozen more times, other outlets could pick it up and it would eventually back up into Fox News’ talking points where they’d have to either lie utterly, or risk their viewers’ comprehension that red states take money from blue states. Charity, let’s say. MAGA heads would temporarily be offline.
I'm not a fan of Newsom, but get it dude.
MOTHERFUCKING DO IT
Stop bending the knee to a felon rapist traitor who uses the military to assault American citizens.
Stop providing welfare to failing red states who elect felon rapist traitors who target blue states.
I've been talking to alot of people about something like this. If CA didn't pay federal tax, and all of it went to state, CA would make more money. Don't want to incite insurrection...but I think we could do alright by ourselves if push came to shove.
As someone living in California, I could certainly use some more money... Doesn't help my employer moved me here then reneged on my proposed salary. It's very hard to make it here, but ultimately worth it. For me anyhow.
Look up "promissory estoppel."
Holy shit this is immensely helpful for me right now, thank you so much. I actually have a meeting with the CEO this Friday about this while thing. I will be bringing this up. Thank you again, so much.
You may want to have a quick consult phone call with a labor lawyer before then. The company has an HR and legal team they've already consulted.
To add to that, just because they have legal council involved doesn’t mean that they’re not in the wrong and know it. You may just need to say the magic words to make them back down and a labor lawyer who understands your case will know what those words are.
You obviously may keep working there if it gets resolved to your satisfaction, so the support of a lawyer will help you play it cool while you negotiate. It’s easier to just be pissed if you know you’re being wronged but don’t have the language to clearly articulate how.
Yeah, but just wait for when King Trump makes California pay tariffs to trade with the remaining states! He'll bleed CA dry!
Then CA negotiates trade deals with Asia and quits doing business with US altogether.
Don't forget Canada. It would suck having to ship everything by boat to BC, but at least there wouldn't be tarrifs anymore
Yeah he'd try, Smartiest Economier he is. interstate trade is generally critical, but a good chunk of agriculture in the U.S.A. is in CA (Powerd by water from the hoover, yes) throw in Silicon valley, Hollywood, and Napa, CA putting tarrifs on the U.S.A. would hurt too, maybe more.
The country will starve in a famine between that and climate change/mass extinction
I feel like the lady in Melancholia
CA doesn't HAVE to export goods to anyone. you can deny sale to anyone.
I had the disolution of the US for 2035 with California being the first to leave... Fuckin speedrunners
accelerationism?
Been saying that we’re headed for balkanization since the clown won his first term. Not seeing any reason to change that prediction.
For uninformed people like myself:
I'm not looking forward for the chaos preceding the emergence of the next superpower if US balkanization happens.
US balkanization is exactly the chaos preceding the emergence of the next superpower.
China
Maybe. They're floundering since Xi put economics on a lower tier than his own power.
The EU could do it, but it will require sharp thinking and sharper action.
California, without the constant drain on its resources.
I think that's incredibly wishful thinking.
Why would you think that? It's already the world's 4th largest economy with the drain.
Isn't it just China at this point?
I don’t know how this would work, but do it.
I don’t expect Governor Greaseball to follow though, but I would wholeheartedly support this. And secession. I’d also support secession.
Iirc, California is like the 5th largest economy in the world. Secession sounds like a great way to crash the US economy.
The only reason some states aren't considered third-world is because of the federal system, a fact they so often forget.
Like Vermont ranked at 147th as the lowest GDP state? Or Wyoming at 141?
That's not compassion to talk about other states like they are mooching off of others but condescension, and we wonder why they are upset. Everybody benefits from the federal budget and the things that make us 3rd world like lack of healthcare and low pay is felt by all types of states.
You know what is wild?
The US is the largest economy on the world, and if you remove California from it at #4 the US moves to....
#1 still. Several states make up the top 25 list of GDPs and the total combined is absurd.
The US is just massive in scale. It's fully running the global empire still even if it's waning. I do think losing California would be a massive hit for lots of reasons but just wild to think about.
GDP does not indicate how big an economy is, it measures how many dollars trade hands in it.
So there are two things about this:
One is that the reason the US GDP is so high is because of price and wage inflation in the service industry that makes up most of it. And I mean white-collar services like software devs, management consultants, doctors and lawyers and the like. It's a lot of made up money that goes nowhere, you pay a US software engineer twice as much as someone in the EU just for them to have less disposable income PPP than someone in the EU as that extra money ends up with landlords, banks and insurance companies. It's a shell game that boosts figures.
Two, that shell game is held up by everyone trusting the dollar. Trump is eroding that precise trust, and a Calexit would be another hit to that. Do you know how much the US owes? It doesn't matter as long as the dollar is king, and I would not have bet against the dollar last year, but it seems like Trump is betting against it and winning. And when everyone is convinced Wall Street is not a safe haven for your money because Trump will just steal it, then that premium on the US GDP will just evaporate, along with a sizeable chunk of the world economy.
Here's hoping the world lets the US down gently for its own sake.
Yes.
Seriously get paid double and actually have less than a worker in another country since we have to pay for each single piece of life separately at retail prices.
And 2... Yeesh yeah. Literally stocks just keep going up cause the value of the dollar is lowering and nobody knows where to put it to keep it safe other than the stock market... And it does feel like it's gonna get robbed at some point.
So agreed, just think it's wild that there is enough money hoarding and spending in any state in the US to beat out lots of countries for GDP and sets the US as the battery that powers the global economy at our pain. I do hope we just drain the battery rather than light it on fire.
Fourth largest, Texas is eighth.
And a lot of it is tech that can leave state if it needed to
Shutting off the American food supply is the bigger play
Yeah if California secedes, fruits, nuts, and vegetables would get a whole lot more expensive for the rest of the country... something like half of our produce comes from California.
To that I say:
Don’t worry, we are already on track for that.
Feel free to join Canada my friends.
Breaks down when you start seeing all the blueberries in the ketchup and you realize that's where huge portions of the population actually live.
So much of that red state territory is vacant real estate. A big chunk more is functionally disenfranchised (Indian reservations, migrant labor communities, large prison populations).
This illustrates regions of political control. But it is in no way reflective of homogeneous popular opinion.
Shit, even doing shades of purple without getting more granular than the state level would change the map drastically. This winner take all bullshit is the dumbest part of the electoral college.
I would really like to come visit if the road border near Detroit is still relatively safe. My passport and driver's license have the same name and gender so I might have a chance.
They might still get you on skin colour, ethno-linguistic origin of name, left-wing political affiliations, religious affiliations (or lack thereof), type of employment or specific employer, perceived accent, or a boarder agent just having a very bad or a very good day.
I’m neither rich nor skilled enough :( If I was I’d be up there like yesterday
There is no way Newsom has this much balls. There is no way he could possible be this based.
Right? Golly, I hope he proves me wrong.
I barely know anything about Newsom's track record, but based on the last few months dude has the biggest balls I've seen on any US politician in a long time.
And he HATES Donald Trump lol. Newsom’s been spitting fire in the news. It certainly feels like things have finally gotten personal for him.
I don't like Gavin Newsom, but I really hope he does this. It would be so funny 🥲
I won't be holding my breath, but it would be hilarious.
I'd definently like him a lot more if he did
It's grandstanding.....but it pisses off the Orange Turdburgler so I can't complain too much.
Just join Canada. If you are willing to consider you aren't the center of the world, you are welcome.
No they're too big, instantly doubling the population wouldn't go well. At most a Euro style partnership if a few more western states broke off.
West coast alliance :)
Oh sick can we get the yaogui on the flag too?
They will just flatten it with carpet bombs.
California is unlikely to give up their nukes.
Educate me for a moment, are Nukes on a seperate grid by state?
They can all work off the grid, in case we get hit first.
I do not mean power plants:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Livermore_National_Laboratory?wprov=sfla1
I didn't either. I meant are they seperate state by state like that where a state could threaten to use or withhold nukes as you were implying?
They are controlled normally by the Department of Energy.
But sesession would be a weird event, and many things would change. Physical location is not one of them. And the physical location of the place where the most advanced nuclear weapons are designed and built is in California.
Would the physicists and engineers at Lawrence Livermore just pack up and leave? Or would they continue rolling out B.83s or something in between.
Even more weird possibilities: would the DoE forcibly relocate the physicists and engineers who do this work? Or would California step in and protect them? In any case I think the number of weapons that wind up under the control of the State of California would not be zero. The same goes for bombers, and missile systems, of which California has the most flexible examples.
Sure, the production missile fleet is in Montana and N. Dakota, but those things are there to draw fire, not necessarily to be used. But Vandenberg and Edwards are in California. What happens to those?
Frankly I’d be surprised if anyone even does their taxes in this next cycle. Give dumpster nothing. Cut him off. Let congress figure out how their gonna pay the military and ICE and golf with their own dime to keep this shit up.
Most people have their federal tax withheld by their employers and do their taxes in order to get back their overpayment. Are we all going to not do our taxes and leave that overpayment in the government's coffers? Are employers going to stop doing the withholding? Neither scenario is very likely.
Go to HR. Ask for a W-4, change withholding to $0.
That's only going to cause little people more problems as they get audited. The thought is nice but no way would the feds pass up the opportunity to ruin people's lives for this.
And it's not like withholding some tax revenues would have any effect on Republican spending. Despite their bullshit "fiscal conservatism" rhetoric, they've had no qualms whatsoever about running enormous deficits for more than half a century now. A tax strike would just produce more debt and give Republicans ammo to blame it all on Democrats.
They've actually run those deficits up very intentionally. If you aren't familiar with the Two Santas Strategy, this is worth a read:
https://www.milwaukeeindependent.com/thom-hartmann/two-santas-strategy-gop-used-economic-scam-manipulate-americans-40-years/
The IRS can change it back via a "lock in letter".
Well it is a good thing then that DOGE fired the IRS
For people like me who have some savings and investments but don't want to run afoul of the law - Just take a couple years off. I'm working part time to cover my cost of living, and I'm not investing. So minimizing what I pay in income tax and taxes on dividends.
I hope people reading this aren't taking this advice seriously... The IRS will fuck you up. They have less funding, but that only means that they only go after low hanging fruit (AKA people who can't afford a team of lawyers to fight). They'll garnish your fucking wages.
Kinda crazy that the comment is so highly upvoted... I get the sentiment, but you're giving people really bad advice here.
Idk, the author of "Civil Disobedience" did it. It's a valid resistance method, or just a way to keep yourself morally consistent. Every kind of resistance has a good chance of bringing harm to yourself.
I personally didn't file one year; kinda just kept putting it off because I knew I wouldn't be able to pay my taxes (was a 1099 worker, and suffered some major financial blows that year); nothing ever happened, but it definitely was a risk. I probably won't do that as an "act of resistance" next year, but will probably try extending as long as possible.
I mean yeah, you can do it... But you're going to accomplish literally nothing and there's a good chance that it will cause you much distress.
Nice try Steve miller. Go jump up your butt.
OK, go ahead and change your withholding to $0 and see what happens. Publicly announcing your intentions to stop paying federal taxes will definitely help as well.
I do zero withholding every year because I get a higher return by investing it. And I've been openly posting about tax resistance for years. It'd be a lot more realistic if my whole state was on board!
I meant "do zero withholding, and then don't file taxes" as that was the implication.
I know what tax resistance is, I'm just talking about the (very real) consequences that people better be ready for if they take that advice.
DOGE already scrapped the IRS
You think the IRS doesn't exist anymore? You think that the federal government is just going to stop collecting taxes?
Lol.
Stop whining. She left you for Elon. And it’s entirely justified with how much of an asshole you are. Just think how big of a loser you are to make him the winner.
Lol what. Are you doin ok, buddy?
"Doing your taxes next cycle" just accounts for bonuses/corrections after reviewing taxes that had been paid through the year. It happens every paycheck.
Some people have very daringly chosen to withhold all taxes from each paycheck - there are legal reasons you might do this like "I plan to have a large tax write-off", but without said reason, it's very possible the IRS would come after you.
the govt doesn't need money to spend it btw - this is how we got the national debt
this could affect something but not as much as youmight think
So private prison giant GEO group Donates heavily to Trump‘s campaign. Trump has ice indiscriminately pick people up for “deportation“ where they are sent to prisons run by GEO group. Concerned citizens protest ICE actions in California. Trump illegally deploys national guard without the consent of California's government to attack law abiding citizens in California. Gavin Newsome, Liberal democrat and defender of capitalism, uses legal tactics to fight back against illegal activities. To me this act rings hollow. Please someone tell me what I am missing, because I would love to have a glimmer of hope these days.
I’m not sure how legal it is for CA to stop paying taxes. At the very least, it’s an attempt to attack where it hurts, which is in the money.
Calexit is becoming less and less of a meme every day.
I'd be so God damn happy if we left this shithole nation. And opened up for refugees of the failed state of America.
But it's what they want... It's part of the plan... even just the idea to cause uncertainty and confusion... They want to enact material law... running is a choice but fighting fascist racist felon dictators is the only real choice and if they can delay the elections because of civil unrest or whatever bullshit they are trying...
California is basically its own country it has everything it needs... But you can't fight trump like a politician.... You have to play his game and beat him... He's a bully and a coward... Saying we won't pay taxes does nothing to protect the people on the streets
So what I'm hearing is... Deploy the Cali National guard to DC and Mar a Lago to defend Trump and the government from unrest in L.A.
I mean that would never happen but sounds like a good time
I see. So, part of the plan to take it over as an independent nation-state run as a neo-feudal technocracy that Curtis Yarvin has advocated?
Technically trump's presidency is illegal. But here we are.
Trump does not give one rat fuck of an ass about the law. Why the fuck should anyone do anything for the federal government and pay taxes at this point?
Don't bet on hope from this. California can't win on its own.this needs to build significantly before it has an effect.
One thing that might be misunderstood here is that California not paying taxes wouldn't harm Trump. Trump's goal, made clear from a sum of lots of behaviors, is the destruction of the United States. Defaulting on its debt, zeroing its GDP, destroying the livelihood of its inhabitants, and ultimately killing its war machine, so that they can't fight Putin's army. California's lack of payment may just hasten that goal.
I don't think he is a puppet of Putin. I think he really, really likes money and power, that's it. He does things to further his own grip of the country, thus increasing his power. Or, he does things to increase his wealth. Nothing more. He likes authoritarian leaders because they have more of a hold on their respective countries (a weird form of respect), or because they give him money (or expensive planes).
But if it's not Putin's fault,
They'll find a way to blame someone or something else. Cognitive dissonance and all.
I don't think Trump is as much of a lackey that's following the plan as he is a useful idiot that's easy to manipulate. I believe that Trump believes that the US is the biggest and the best - it suits the same image he has of himself as the biggest and best leader - but he's so dumb and narcissistic that he won't realize that he's being led on a leash.
I don't think Trump consciously wants to destroy America, I think he wants to make it what he considers to be great (a militarily powerful dictatorship built on worshiping him), but he's absolutely fine with making it weaker in the interim if it either:
A. Makes him gain something
B. Feeds his ego
It might put California on the track to surviving Trump's destruction and becoming a civilized country opposed to Putin, unlike other US states.
I would like to leave this here as a warning, because it seems relevant to me.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_fire
While I agree, I think that's a better comparison to the LA protests and the National Guard being called in. An entire state government "going rogue" (and the support that they may or may not have from the other states) is in a whole other class, especially when you consider the legal framework that separates the powers of the state from the federal government. It's closer to Brexit than anything else, imo, but even that doesn't truly match up with the intricacies of the power struggle since the members of the EU have their own militaries instead of a unified military under the governance of a body separate from its member countries.
The Reichstag Fire was most likely a false-flag that the Nazis used to consolidate power... They're waiting for something to pop off so they have an excuse for martial law or whatever. If it doesn't happen on its own, then they'll probably just do it themselves. Agents provocateur are the oldest trick in the book.
This is, hands down, the funniest version of this that I have seen.
I even heard it in his voice goddamnit.
This is art.
My guess is that Newsom’s only angle would be to say “on X date, all state employee income tax withholdings will go into escrow.” Thats about a quarter million employees out of 20m people filing for taxes in CA.
Then the state would have to start coding and integrating that new system which - would be a HUGE pain in the ass. And while that was happening, this would likely be getting shut down by the SCOTUS.
Not trying to be a Debby downer for people that want to stick it to Trump. At first glance, it looks like leverage, but when you look closer, you see that Newsom can only control a small piece of the pie.
As Trump has shown, legality doesn't matter if you can drag out the legislative process long enough. Clearly, California withholding taxes will be struck down by the courts, but the damage will be done if it can be dragged out long enough to disrupt the bond market even further than Taco already has.
I think the bigger impact here is how it brings the tax imbalance into the conversation. Look at how effective that argument has been at fuelling Albertan separatism. It's especially effective on Conservatives, who are absolutely suckers for anything that suggests they're getting a bad deal. "We pay too much for too little" is something that he could easily get most of California to rally around.
By pushing this line, Newsom is driving a wedge between California and the US. I couldn't possibly say whether he's actually trying to fuel separatism, or simply gesturing at it as a threat, but that's the implied danger here.
Honestly I fully expect it to just be saber rattling to drag it out until trump capitulates, which he almost always does when the going gets tough.
Newsom is a shoe-in for the democratic candidate for presidency in 2028, and his largely neoliberal policies combined with his charisma make him an obvious choice for the DNC. However I do think the DNC needs to try running a Midwestern Dem from a battleground state sometime because they can really break a lot of the caricatures that the GOP likes to paint on the national stage about Dems
also depends how many other states follow suit, if any.
Although some of his shit gets shut down pretty fast. Some of his immigration stuff got put on ice fast by the SOCTUS.
If the military was being deployed before for so little reason then hold on to your butts, the entire US military will be thrown in to the mix and California will be treated as an occupied state in no time if they touch the money.
Doubt they'll be paying much taxes if everyone is a prisoner in their own homes
The federal government will just levy more taxes upon the remaining states. At least 10 thousand good dubloons and various gold statues and concubines per year
The tighter your grasp, the more states will slip through your fingers!
Let's Fucking Do This
stopping paying taxes is one of the essential elements of a "soft secession", one where the state disintegrates from the federation, but not "all at once", but "step by step".
Maybe it was Trump's plan after all to cause a number of states to secede? After all, GOP has talked about Texas' secession for a while, iirc?
His plan to lose his most valuable states? Probably not. He’s just an idiot out of control.
Although, from a Russian perspective, that would be an ideal outcome. I'd put nothing past these traitorous criminals.
Project 2025 shows that the Republicans have at least one person with the ability to plan long term strategy.
California should just leave the US and form its own country.
In just two days I got my answer.
https://lemmy.world/comment/17543233
Hasn't actually happened yet though.
well it IS taco Tuesday
Not one more penny to these Nazis.
All red states. It would cripple the country and thus ALL red states.
Good. Even my state provides more, than we get. Fuck em! Let them have their Jesus Land. That will make America great, no red states.
Same, I'm in one of the few red states that actually makes money. But honestly I'm at the point where I'm just like whatever. Fuck it, right? Just burn it down so our rot doesn't infect the rest of the world. Seriously, this would be a mercy killing at this point. Please don't let this spread.
Join Canada.
Most Americans would be unhappy in Canada. You don't have the right to own a gun in Canada. Employees have rights in Canada. We have actual religious freedom in Canada, not the right to discriminate based on "religion". Women have the right to choose in Canada. Hate speech isn't protected in Canada. We're a VERY different country even compared to your most liberal states.
Don't be a republican and confuse an electoral map with people. Most Americans support all of that.
Don't threaten me with a good time lol
Canada has more regulations, that's for sure, but that's why our banking industry survived the US banking meltdown. Our tax rates are comparable but very few Canadians go bankrupt because of medical debt. I was diagnosed with Hodgkins Lymphoma last year. I got an ultrasound, two chest x-rays, a CT scan, three PET scans, two pulmonary function studies, an echo cardiogram, a PICC line, 12 PICC care appointments, 20 bloodwork appointments, and six months of chemo and my out of pocket expenses were less than $4,000 which included parking, gas, and meals for my driver. We have school shootings but they are very rare and far less deadly than in the US because of strict gun regulations.
If you compare taxes paid to what you would spend on medicine and health care or other out of pocket, you would be further ahead in Canada. While not perfect, we have social systems to try to level the playing field for all. With deductions and tax credits my 22-24% tax bracket is actually only about 13% paid tax
Well that's the thing, the city gets money from permits not via the charity. If you follow your local city licensing and permits then things go well
Sounds much like a blue state. You don't have the right to own a gun in MA for example. You have a right to submit an application for your local police chief to deny or approve based on how much they like you.
You do have the right to own at gun in MA as guaranteed by the Second Amendment. No such right exists in Canada. In Canada gun ownership is a privilege which can be revoked and which has strict training, licensing, and handling requirements.
Strict is a loose term. A Canadian neighbour had more than 10 guns, overkill for city apartment living...but if you have a valid license its fair game
Realistically though, if you're not a f***ing moron and don't have a criminal record, it's not hard to get your PAL and the ability to have long-guns. It's a day-course.
The RPAL is a bit more work and more restrictions in terms of transport etc, but it's not necessary for most people that would just want to go hunting or target shooting (except target shoots with handguns).
IMO - as somebody who has a PAL - the rules around responsible ownership in Canada are pretty reasonable. Some of the recent stuff over particular firearms is dumb especially with the lacklustre enforcement against trafficking etc, but stuff around safe storage and use 100% makes sense to me whereas the "public carry" stuff in the US is kinda horrifying to me.
Agreed. I'm not a gun owner but was around guns as a kid (dad was a hunter) and he was super into safety of the whole thing. Except my friends dad wasn't so safe, he had us reloading shotgun shells via purpose built relaoding carousal as kids. My friend had no qualms about it, but I'm like dude make sure the primer isn't skewed when the shell comes down, careful with that. I had visions of a crimped primer setting off the powder lol
Strict by American standards. My 16 year old son is on his way into the house to get my keys so that I can unlock the ammo box to give him .22 quiets so that he can try out his new Winchester rifle that arrived by mail today.
Canadian kids 12 through 17 can apply for their gun license. Or If you are with a licensed owner you can handle guns. I went hunting with my dad in the teen days. Canada is not as strict as the US folk believe, especially if you live rurally and are hunting, you can be under 12. We just don't use it to attach our identity too like gun nuts in the USA
Used to be that way here as well. Gun nuts existed but even most of the right thought they were crazy and pathetic.
Grew up in the deep south. Guns were a tool, back then. Most people didn't own a handgun, those that did tended to have one or two. .38 special and a .22 pistol for plinking. Like other tools they are toys as well so people like guns and have a lot of fun with them. Seeing them as weapons to kill people was a distant afterthought other than safety considerations.
Most gun owners had only long guns. .22 for small game and plinking, scoped bolt or lever 30-06 for larger game. Several gauge of shotguns for different types of hunting and skeet shooting.
Live in a blue/purple state now. Our home is an old farmhouse. My study has a gun rack built in to the closet original to the house. It is sized to fit that use pattern and fits my family like a glove.
I gotta go check my groundhog traps, cute little fuckers destroy foundations and you aren't even allowed to catch and release, by law you are supposed to dispatch and not relocate. I dispatch with a long barrel .22 revolver.
My 16 year old is out shooting his brand new arrived today .22 right now. He has a PL (possession license) while I have a PAL (possession and acquisition license.) He is allowed to possess guns without supervision but he is not allowed to acquire them.
In MA and a few other states gun ownership is a privelege that is granted based on personal bias and can be revoked. They also have training licensing and handling requirements.
Looking at the laws online the only major difference I see is in CA you can no longer buy a handgun due to the freeze.
Gun laws by state vary wildly.
I did a little bit of reading and I don't think that's true. You have the protected constitutional right to own guns as guaranteed by the second amendment but the exercise of that right is subject to licensing and permitting requirements and may be suspended under some circumstances (such as your being designated a danger to society.) (This sounds more like a, "mah rights!" argument than anything else to me. )
That's quite different from Canada where you have literally no right to own a gun at all.
Its not though, there is literally constitution legal contention over the issue. There are a few states like MA, NY and a few others where they call it a "may issue"state because it's not a right in those states.
That's not how the US constitution works.
This would be madlad behaviour if it actually happens
The guys that are currently restoring confederate monuments would perform a takeover of the state by the federal government. US states no longer share core values, sometimes very hypocritically so.
The state government isn't involved with collecting federal taxes, so how could this be done?
I don't know how they could implement this across the private sector, but the State of California has a quarter million employees for which they could probably stop sending tax withholdings to the feds.
According to this random site I found Googling, it's around $230M every month.
They would have employers stop withholding federal taxes.
Hey, now we're even boycotting ourselves!
...
More seriously:
Welp, I don't see another option than lie down and roll over, but also, if Newsom actually does it, this will basically cause a civil war... or at best a 'Russia is pacifying Chechen terrorists' kind of situation.
Hope everyone has their popcorn / bugout bags ready.
Ok, this is an idea I had after reading numerous comments on this post. You're all asking how this would work ... hear me out.
California declares its own currency, the "California dollar". Wages earned in California dollars wouldn't be taxed like US Dollars.
There are some issues to work out; I think the IRS does tax your foreign assets ... some ... but I think that this scheme could work.
Soundish monetary policy. In the end it's a fallacy that has never even been tried on a theoretical level. We just did it and people were like, ok. We've been kept afloat by monetary and military threats. The policy makes no sense on any level, that infinite debt is perfectly fine or normal.
What if they got into a monetary union with Canada and linked Calidollar with the Canadollar with the same value and entirely interchangeable the way the Belgian and Luxemburg franc used to work?
Link to article for people with adblock enabled
Can anyone explain what this even means? Like W2 taxes go directly from employer to federal right? What kind of control can California actually do to stop monetary flow to the federal government?
Or would everyone have to manually adjust their W2 withholdings to boycott?
I guess it would be something like "Don't pay your federal taxes, Californians, we will not cooperate with the federal government if they try to collect."
How much does the state government of California actually pay to the federal government? When we hear these things about states that pay more in federal taxes than they receive aren't we normally talking about the individuals and businesses filing their federal taxes and then some of that getting back to the state? Most of this isn't State money going to the feds. It's the state money of the individuals within the state sending in money.
What taxes is the state collecting and then sending to the feds? At the state stops paying but the individuals keep paying then doesn't really make any difference? Are individuals going to risk going to prison for federal tax evasion?
I'm of the opinion that California, Oregon, and Washington should succeed and join Canada. Hell, New York and Massachusetts too if I'm indulging in this fantasy scenario.
All of new england pls
I honestly don't know how this is even possible. Doesn't the withholding go directly to the IRS? The issue of federal income tax is between the federal government and the taxpayer.
Yes. California would need to split off its banking system.
Unfortunately not something really he has a lot of control over, though he could start a movement
YES
Ain't happening anyway
Already on it! They can come after me for it, fuck these criminals r not getting a dime from me to build concentration camps
Do it! Sink this economy! TACO!
You wont win against Trump going to Open war with him, this is just Madness and nonsense. Start using your brains and stop doing shit for the photos on Instagram
this isn't open war
this is money moving arround
open war is open war
So how can you win without fighting back?