Life for most of us is just following a bunch of laws you may or may not agree with so you can keep working 40+ hours a week and spending all your money on basic survival
I agree with others in this thread, this has more to do with ethics and critical thinking than with nuerodivigence. And that nuerodivergence seems to be getting conflated here with autism, specifically.
This is not a valid excuse to go into asshole territory. Occasionally, you might not be in a position to understand why things are done a certain way - mostly because of inexperience, or your higher-ups might not have the time to explain the rules to you. Some examples might include regulations or standards.
It's alright to be humble and recognize that you may not understand some things sometimes. That's actually how you learn, and avoid pissing off your colleagues.
I follow the rules unless they don't make sense to me, I must be autistic and neurodivergent omg so quirky.
People, we can just remark on things, we don't need a unique identifier for every observable opinion in the world. I know its part of finding belonging and community, but you aren't neurodivergent for questioning the way the world works, you're critical of your surroundings and that's a good thing
1 and 2 are "Level 1 (Pre-Conventional)" (according to the same article, children and animals have this), 3 and 4 are "Level 2 (Conventional)", 5 and 6 are "Level 3 (Post-Conventional)".
The last one is basically thinking around "what if everyone did that?". Unfortunately, lots of people are at either stage 2 or 4. Sometimes downgrading from 4 to 2 once they become the authority.
It's very curious to claim neurodivergent people refused to participate in the slave trade, the Holocaust, or white nationalist lynch mobs.
I haven't seen any evidence to this effect. Certainly, I've seen a fair share of evidence against it.
This has little to do with autism and more with being smart.
Intelligent people engage in immoral activities frequently. They get sucked into cults of personality and religious extremism frequently. They are conned frequently.
because it makes people feel special to say they are neurodivergent. it's a neat label to have for many folks.
it doesn't make them feel special to say they are lazy entitled jerks... which is usually the behaviour they are reporting on that they claim makes them neurodivergent.
and if you look at the neurodivergent communities on here... a lot of the posts are them basically claiming they have super powers.
it's the same psychology behind horoscopes, new age religions, flat earthers, etc. people really really really want to feel special and different and superior (or persecuted/victimhood) to 'everyone else', and neurodivergent has become yet another way for folks to feel that way about themselves.
another one that would indicate im apparently not neurodivergent because I have a hard time not following rules regardless. Like to my detriment. Unless i find them like morally wrong.
I'll just do what causes least harm / most positive things. If following some obscure rule doesnt require worthwhile effort from me then might as well, in case something goes wrong. If there isnt any logical reason to suspect ignoring the rule would cause harm then I'll just put it lower on the priority about how things are done.
Until i actually know better, i dont want to assume anything poorly explained is irrelevant.
Conversely, if someone is honest and says, "this is just how I like it I'm not really sure why" I'll at least respect it because they were honest, and a silly (little) rule that exists because of some cope or something is something I can relate to.
There's some people who aren't neurodivergent and do the same. Some people just don't want to follow rules they don't understand, which can be pretty annoying
If we would blindly follow convention people would still not wash their hands before operating.
Convention alone is not enough. There should be a reason why this convention is needed. And that's the part that has to be more convincing than "it has always been like that".
I'd rather ask if it's okay to use arial or another sans serif font, than blindly use Times New Roman. And even if I'm forced to, I'd try to undermine this "rule" as much as possible because TNR is not a good screen font.
I've heard plenty of unreasonable people say this about completely reasonable rules. Hell, I've heard someone say this about seatbelts, "it doesn't make sense how it isn't my own decision" lol
Sometimes people just don't get something. Doesn't mean the rule is bad if you don't get it lol
The only argument you need is, can you catch 200 lbs going 45 mph? 25 mph? 1 mph? If the answer is bro, I can't catch 200 lbs, wear your fucking seat belt.
I'm autistic, have a sense of justice being the result of reasonable clear fair and as objective as possible rules being consistently followed...
... but you don't need to be autistic to adhere to that. You can be ethical, moral, hold yourself to a standard, determine the reasonability of said standard, without being autistic.
Also... neurodivergence is more broad than just autism.
ADHD is a form of neurodivergence. On its own, I don't see that as being inherently relevant to rule comprehension, consideration or adherence, beyond maybe more complex rules or contingent rulesets taking more effort/exposure/practice to understand, consider or adhere to.
Schizophrenics are neurodivergent. Their ruleset often frequently changes considerably, due to reasons they often cannot explain coherently, and/or the rules they'll tell you they follow can be incoherent/contradictory.
DID is a form of neurodivergence. Each different identity often has its own significantly distinct ruleset / approach to rules.
Being bipolar is arguably a form of neurodivergence. Such people essentially have two rulesets that they alternate between.
Yeah, I've noticed a real problem on here with that. Claiming neurodivergency for something that some people do and some people don't.
This is a trait that some people have. Some people do it more and some do it less. If it's combined with many other symptoms and it makes it difficult for someone to function in society then it might be grounds for a diagnosis.
I think things like this are also just representative of a general shift in society. There's a lot more education online and elsewhere about the power dynamics in society that might have been ignored or not understood in the past. So this behavior is more prevalent which coincides with an increase in neurodivergency even though those two things aren't actually correlated.
I don't think it's necessarily "a problem on here", I think this type of assertion is just part of exploring neurodivergency.
Does something really need to make it difficult for someone to function in society in order to be part of a diagnosis? That seems unlikely.
I disagree that this is an "intelligent / ethical person thing", although I don't really believe that intelligence and ethics is really measurable in that way.
Yes. It does need to make it difficult to function. That's one of the core criteria for most diagnoses in the DSM. "Neurodivergency" as a meme and - I guess you can call it a subculture? - on the internet is wholly misunderstood.
It's really hard to categorize neurodivergency. Particularly in contrast to being "neurotypical". There isn't an "average human" that they compare people to on a chart and say "yep, you're not up to this standard" gavel bang "autism".
I mean, just think about it. If more than 50% of people exhibited this trait in one way or another, this behavior suddenly becomes neurotypical, since the "typical" person possesses this trait.
But the problem with this, just like your problem with intelligence and ethics is that it's all impossible to measure. Behaviors like this exist on a spectrum. This is part of my problem with this aspect of the subculture and posts like this. This behavior happens in "neurotypicals" as well. Autism isn't a switch flipped in your brain that suddenly gives you special traits that neurotypical people don't have. Autism is a diagnosis that happens when a person has a defined constellation of traits that are generally correlated and one or more of which are making it difficult to function.
I saw another post recently that went something like "neurotypicals don't understand having to take a day off after social events" and "neurotypicals don't rehearse social interactions in their head". Which is simply untrue. Many many people take a rest day after a social event or think about how to handle a social interaction, the only difference that the behavior isn't so severe that they are functionally impaired by it.
Couldn't agree more. I do not follow arbitrary rules unless compelled to, as long as it doesn't harm anyone or anything. If you want me to do something, there needs to be a logical reason for me to do it
I generally follow the rules unless I have a reason not to. The rationale is that just because I don't see the reason for the rule doesn't mean there isn't one. If everyone ignored every rule they didn't understand the need for the world would be even more of a shit show.
So I stop at the stop sign when no one is around. I know I would only do it when it was safe, but so does everyone who got hit by a car running a stop sign at a blind corner in the middle of the night.
I'm definitely asking about it if it's the least bit inconvenient though.
The tweet misunderstands autism (And vaguely calls it 'nuerodivergence'). Questioning rules in autism is, at least in my own experience, more about justice than merely understanding why the rule is. We're not asking why for the logic, we're asking why to make sure it's just. You don't usually loudly disobey an unjust rule unless you're making a stand, you do it quietly without acknowledgement because people who enforce unjust rules tend to be vindictive and cruel about it.
To me not having middle ground means just not enough description of the scenarios and how the rule applies. If I see a list of several caveats and inapplicable situations, I'm very likely gonna develop some sort of statistical reason the rule applies differently sometimes.
sort of tangential, but this discussion reminds me of a recent conversation. we had a plumbing leak recently so we had to have these water damage mitigation guys come out and check all the floors and drywall and figure out what needs to get replaced, yada yada. and they've all got these things they call "moisture meters" which are little black plastic boxes with a digital display on the front, and you hold it against a surface and it shows a number that somehow indicates how much water is absorbed into the material. so I asked one of these guys "hey, how does that work? like what's it actually measuring?" and he gave a response that sounded in tone like a technical explanation, but the actual information essentially boiled down to "it tells you how much water is in there, and if it's above 20 it's bad." and I'm thinking like, yeah, I got that, I figured that out from hearing you call it a "moisture meter" and watching you use it for ten seconds. is that what you thought I was confused about? obviously I mean like, what quantity does the number represent; what are the units; what physical thing is being measured to generate that number; is it based on a physical property, a thermal property, chemical, electrical; you're using it the same on wood, drywall, carpet, insulation, how does it apparently treat all materials the same when they have different physical properties and absorb, hold, and release water in different ways? it just baffled me that I could have all these questions less than a minute after seeing one for the first time, but this guy who uses one professionally every day only needs to know water>20=bad
I once was doing some it support trainee work on some education facility. Their old it manager retired while i was there and whole it support thing was outsourced to some external company. They probably knew their shit well enough but still i had to explain some things about office 365 to them (i hadnt even used 365 properly before that ) and i felt that i knew some things better than them. Yet they were the ones getting paid.
They were probably better qualified to do the job in general, but still in my opinion some random trainee shouldnt know more about anything than PAID professional who is supposed to take care of everything. Though I also head from them that they are quite well worked and have to work on MANY sites and basically are not allowed to make mistakes, so maybe there was that too. Seemed really stressful to work for that company.
Spent a few minutes researching because I was almost sure it was just measuring resistance but that is different depending on materials.
They measure moisture by using a scale of wood equivalent moisture. Basically no matter what you stick it in, the pins measure resistance across the probes and give a number as an equivalent reading for sticking them in wood that is wet. Apparently wood is pretty consistent about resistance regardless ofof what type of wood it is. And since American houses are primarily made of wood, we only care about how wet the wood in a home could be.
Water will spread until it reaches equilibrium. So if drywall is tested and shows 20% then the wood directly attached to it is likely at 20% moisture content as well.
Shouldn't that be the other way around? You can make the extrapolation from the (more accurate) reading of the wood to the materials around it, but not from other materials back to wood. If the resistance of wet drywall is equivalent to that of wood at 20% moisture, I'd think that the drywall is a lot wetter? And using the device on a steel beam might show some insane percentage when we know steel does not absorb water.
How curious is the average person about the inner workings of a phone while using one? Most of the time people just need to know how to use tools, rather than the specifics of how they work.
Not really the same situation. Knowing how that box works is the difference between being confident the person trying to sell you on home repairs is an expert or just some guy with a box designed to scare rubes into buying more shit. I don't need to know exactly how my phone works because all it's doing is taking calls and browsing the web. If it had some app that was measuring something to try and sell me shit, I would want to understand how that worked before I bought into it.
You were sold the phone. How did you know it would do what you needed before buying it? You didn't try to understand it, you looked at reviews or just put blind trust in the company that they know enough about how it works.
I do have a general idea of how phones work so maybe I'm not the person to ask but a phone costs hundreds of dollars. Fixing water damage is going to be $1000s. It's not the same level of risk. And yes you can look at reviews and the specs on their website before purchasing. If you're really interested you can watch someone on YouTube take it apart and see how it's constructed.
"All it's doing" as if there haven't been whistleblowers telling us they're spying on us for the past decade💀 But maybe that's not your special interest, fair enough.
The problem is that all the rules contradict each other in one way or another. If you know the reason for the rule, then you know which ones take precedence in each situation. Otherwise, you're just making arbitrary choices on which ones to follow and which to break, and if you can just arbitrarily break a rule with no obvious consequences, then why bother ever following it?
Exactly. Put the fucking shopping carts where they belong! But also don't get onto me for riding it into the coral like a bobsled led by imaginary bears.
What version though? I think we started around 4.0. We were rocking a Tandy 1000 as our first "real" PC 😄 I still remember some amount of fanfare surrounding 6.2, 6.21, 6.22 lol
If you don't have an imagination within your own imaginations or the imaginations of others, it's time to expand the realm of endless possibilities within your very own imagination!!!!!
Wear a shirt that asks that question when I am guiding my cart led by bears into the coral reef corral! I dare you! Heathen! Miscreant! Obsturctor of order! Suggestiquator of squalor! You fool! The coral corral exists for a purpose! How will you navigate the parking lots, nay, STREETS..when they are filled with stray shopping carts! YOU SHANT, AND WE WILL ALL SUFFER FOR YOUR QUESTIONING OF THE ORDER DEMANDED!!!!!
They should, but it varies case by case. Some really do get pissed off, when they feel like you are questioning their authority/intelligence/skills/etc. and do not realize you are just interested in the "why"s.
Teachers are just humans.
Yea whatever, fuck them. I always hated school because of this. I completely understand teachers' plight and all that stuff. It's hard to manage 60 kids n stuff (we had 60 kids per class in the country I grew up in), but still... Treating children like thoughtless, desireless, subhuman entities is one of the greatest tragedies occurring that society is highly blind to.
And I've found that most people do not care, they just want marching orders. Like, I'm not here to give you orders. This is what the goal is, this is how it's currently done, this is why we do it that way. They want to commit "how it's currently done" to rote memory.
And then the first (and second, and third, etc) time something does not go as planned, they're stopped in their tracks. Context was rejected, preventing understanding, leaving little framework for the unexpected.
So they ask me to tell him how to fix it. Well, I don't know how to fix it. This hasn't happened before. I do not have a step by step committed to memory. But I can probably figure it out if you give me a few minutes. There, should be good now.
"Jeez, I didn't want you to do it for me, why can't you just tell me how to do it?"
If you don't have a good damned reason, then fuck your rule. Do you have any idea how many rules exist simply because it favoured one group or person over others? And now we're stuck living with it? Question all the rules. Many of them are selfish bullshit. Like this new everyone has to use AI, or OSs needing photo ID to function, or why rich people get to avoid prison for their numerous rule breaking crimes, even become president FFS.
Rules need to be wise or they shouldn't be followed and I'm not trusting most ppls opinions of whether they are wise or not.
I worked in a pharmacy during COVID. Once vaccine supply balanced out to the point we could take walk-ins, we were told by corporate that even if someone was walking in without an appointment, we were to go into the system and make them an appointment for the current date and time. To clarify, this is a separate system than what bills insurance, notifies doctors, documents the vaccine etc. It's just an appointment system.
Dumb rule. Stupid. Did not follow it for weeks because we were busy, y'know, administering vaccines and dispensing medications.
Until I found out why we were supposed to do it...
This was the vaccine that you got one dose of, then a follow up dose ~6 weeks later. When you book an appointment, it automatically schedules the followup appointment and notifies the patient when it's coming up, helping us not get slammed with walk-in appointments and the patient not forget their second dose.
From that point on, I was adamant that appointments be made for every vaccine with multiple doses.
I think this is the great pandemic. I don’t know if I have a skewed world view, but so many people are in survival mode all the time that they don’t have the time to think about these things where those with autism don’t have the option not to.
I don’t think that these people want to live like ostriches, but I they’re so preoccupied with our current state of things that the energy and time simply aren’t available.
Having some time to sit quietly and consider your situation is a luxury few can afford.
The second part, where neurodivergent folks do follow rules and get angry when others don't, is the flip side of the coin where neurotypicals don't follow rules that they consider not really that important. They know the rules, they know why, they just think the consequences aren't that bad, or they don't feel the consequences or pure ego. Why is it pathologised when neurodivergent people don't follow rules, but when neurotypicals do it, its fine. Then neurodivergent people are pathologised for noticing neurotypicals don't follow rules. But when neurotypicals notice neurodivergent folk not following rules, not pathologised.
Sorry for the meaningless rant. I haven't had a coffee yet. Better go fix that.
Eta: ok I've just had one sip, but now I've got more for the meaningless rant...
Why is it described as "if neurodivergent don't fully understand a rule" and not "when neurotypicals poor communication skills don't explain rules properly, whole swathes of people fail to follow the rule, because of said communication issue"
I don't know why it's gotta be neurotypical vs neurodivergent anyways. My audhd partner is absolute shit sometimes at explaining things in a way that me, a person with a brain tumor, can understand. He'll leave these gaps in his instructions because it seems obvious and intuitive to him, then get frustrated when I misunderstand.
Like, there was this time I was helping him cut some really long 2x4s, where the boards were long enough that it was off the saw table, which was making them bend and not cut right. So he had me go stand at the end and "keep them straight", which I interpreted as keeping the end from drooping AND/OR wandering off course. He just wanted me to keep it from drooping. So he got irritated that we had to try a third time, snappy with me about clarifying questions, and I still don't quite understand why keeping it from wandering off course was a bad thing.
Likewise, I'm also horrible at explaining things sometimes. My brain sometimes straight up forgets words, and I'm just over here hoping you can understand what I mean by "that thingie" and charades.
So what you are saying is that they operate in logic and reason and that they have a healthily critical relationship with authority?
I’m sorry? Which people are they trying to convince us are the broken ones, again?
The real neurodivergence is the charisma chuds; American was built for them. Dumb con men who’s narcissistic tendencies allow them to sell us all on how they’re actually the best ones and we are the weird ones.
I know it’s just reductive fan fiction but I like to imagine all the emotional disregulation baggage is just the realization of living in a world run by selfish children who would kill just to be popular and be waited on
this is why I can never live in Japan. there, the justification for rules is literally "because it's a rule". from preschoolers up to the Prime Freaking Minister!
you'd have you literately pull teeth before you could get to the original cause or thought process behind a rule.
of course there are autistic ppl there. they often get ostracized for sense of justice. literally. "seigikan"(正義感) is often unironically mentioned as a reason why someone is difficult to work with. the society also expects members to forgive illogical behavior by not mentioning "seiron"(正論) aka facts/logic.
at least in some western countries, ppl sometimes have the decency to feel embarrassed to complain about others' upright behavior. (i don't love western countries either)
Try to figure out why you would have that be a rule if you don't get it though. There are some rules that you will never get explained why, but if you think from their perspective it can actually become clear of, yes this might be a kind of arbitrary rule in some cases, but it shows that you are capable of figuring out and following arbitrary rules.
Like how, I forget which band it is, puts in their contract that all the brown or green or whatever M&Ms have to be put into a separate bowl, because one time the people did not read or follow the setup instructions and people almost fucking died. They can walk into the dressing room and immediately see if the instructions have been followed based on a bowl of M&Ms
I am not capable of following arbitrary rules that I know are arbitrary, because they are arbitrary and I’m not a robot. That’s stupid as fuck.
Edit: I really don’t understand the downvotes. Do most people honestly agree with this dog shit sentiment of just shut up and do as you’re told? That’s fucking gross.
Very few rules are arbitrary. A rule may be bad, or no longer relevant, but there must have been a reason someone went to the trouble of making it. Once you can figure out that purpose, you can accept or reject it. But until then, you must consider the possibility that your knowledge is simply incomplete.
I explicitely said not to just shut the fuck up and do what you are told.
Either all rules are arbitrary or none are, as all rules are to achieve a specific goal and there is no logical way to get an aught from an is statement. Figure out the goal and decide from there, as in the example given: goal make sure that we don't die to them not following our instructions, so make one extremely arbitrary rule that would be one of the first things people like you would skip because they don't see the point in making sure that everything is set up exactly right.
A decent number of rules are exactly like that, a quick vibe check to see at a glance if you are going to do the "arbitrary rules" that don't have an obvious reason but never the less have an actual important reason behind them.
I do this to my son as I am a person who wants to know why things are as they are. At least when he doesn't listen. Does not help really but I feel better explaining at least.
I partly disagree. They won’t follow the rules because they have their own way of doing something, right or wrong, not simply because they reject following rules. That also doesn’t mean they won’t follow a rule they initially rejected if they FAFO the reason for the rule.
As for being pissed when others don’t follow the rules, 100% true. Whether it’s office favoritism allowing someone to get ahead rather than doing the work, or someone taking cuts in line. That’ll blow a fuse.
Accommodations, closure, and validation. I didn't bother getting one myself. But it can get you things like being allowed to use earmuffs at work or extra time in exams
Shit I thought this was ADHD but maybe its more autism. Literally since I was 5 I recall thinking to myself that unless I know the exact reasoning behind a task I will not do it. I'm still this way at work. If its an easy but meaningless task I'll take a whole day to do it. Difficult but meaningful task? I'm done in an hour.
Same! Over the course of my life I've frequently alienated managers at work because I always ask them to explain the rules they talk about and they interpret that as "talking back" and think of me as a rebel with an attitude problem. It's annoying.
These days I ask them to explain a rule because it will help me REMEMBER the rule, which is technically true and doesn't offend them as much.
The middle ground is having the rule be properly explained, but it contradicts logic so badly that the rule must not be followed, because its fucking stupid and only an idiot would follow that rule.
Even if the explanations and evidence line up well, if there are obvious loopholes and pitfalls, I'll have problems with it. A lot of problems with it.
An expectation to follow rules without an acceptable explanation, when the rule follower has not given consent previously to the rule maker to expect this is authoritarian behavior. Fuck authoritarian behavior and fuck authoritarians. I can't see how this is just a "oooh they're just autistic" thing ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I cannot relate to the first part. I love rules. I'm never like, that's a stupid rule. I'm like, yay a rule, I will absorb this and follow it forever, so I don't do the wrong thing.
I've never been in that situation, but I would inform both of them and ask for guidance. Or, if it's a kind of situation where like, a sign posted says one thing but the person in front of me is directing me to do something else, I will do what the person in front of me is directing me to do.
If it's any comfort, a lot of posts here are just a quirky, autism-flavored horoscope. With a neurodevelopmental disorder that both affects tons of areas of cognition/social development and is situated on a pretty broad spectrum, you're probably going to find ways of understanding rules in people with autism are generally different than in neutotypical people.
I don't know of any good studies that explore rule learning in autistic children/people generally, but I can imagine – even as someone autistic who vaguely relates to the post – that the experience is much more diverse than these "autistic people be like"-type Tumblr posts.
Also, this post is clearly substituting "neurodiversity" for "the neurodiversity I specifically have", given "neurodivergent" is extremely wide-ranging to include things like dyslexia and Tourette's
That's cause it's different for people even within the spectrum. Like, I'm suspecting I'm autistic. And large part of it is poor motor neuron coordination and having a poor sense of prioritising things. Plus difficulties with expressing myself and socialising that has persisted since my childhood.
Plus for some people it's aesthetic. The only reason I'm even considering getting a diagnosis cause life's genuinely getting too hard for me, to the point I was crying several times a day, and that's in a relatively benign work environment.
Look I don't mind people calling themselves autistic just cause they feel like it(cause it reduces social barriers for people who genuinely are autistic), just don't start generalising.
Also if you don't mind, can I ask you how was life for you, so I get an Idea for myself slightly better?
I have a self described neurodivergent coworker who has recently started leaving work around 30 mins early when it’s our job description to shut the place down. He reasons that if he skips lunch (because of his heroic dose of adderal) he earns the right to leave early. 🙃
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Life for most of us is just following a bunch of laws you may or may not agree with so you can keep working 40+ hours a week and spending all your money on basic survival
I agree with others in this thread, this has more to do with ethics and critical thinking than with nuerodivigence. And that nuerodivergence seems to be getting conflated here with autism, specifically.
This is not a valid excuse to go into asshole territory. Occasionally, you might not be in a position to understand why things are done a certain way - mostly because of inexperience, or your higher-ups might not have the time to explain the rules to you. Some examples might include regulations or standards.
It's alright to be humble and recognize that you may not understand some things sometimes. That's actually how you learn, and avoid pissing off your colleagues.
I follow the rules unless they don't make sense to me, I must be autistic and neurodivergent omg so quirky.
People, we can just remark on things, we don't need a unique identifier for every observable opinion in the world. I know its part of finding belonging and community, but you aren't neurodivergent for questioning the way the world works, you're critical of your surroundings and that's a good thing
"My superpower is I don't listen" is a thing I see repeated way too often on social media.
It's a sign of intelligence to question the status quo.
And if being intelligent is neurodivergent because the rest of the populace is stupid asf, so be it
This has little to do with autism and more with being smart. No, seriously.
From the English Wikipedia, stages of moral development:
1 and 2 are "Level 1 (Pre-Conventional)" (according to the same article, children and animals have this), 3 and 4 are "Level 2 (Conventional)", 5 and 6 are "Level 3 (Post-Conventional)".
The last one is basically thinking around "what if everyone did that?". Unfortunately, lots of people are at either stage 2 or 4. Sometimes downgrading from 4 to 2 once they become the authority.
This is why I'm Vegan.
It's very curious to claim neurodivergent people refused to participate in the slave trade, the Holocaust, or white nationalist lynch mobs.
I haven't seen any evidence to this effect. Certainly, I've seen a fair share of evidence against it.
Intelligent people engage in immoral activities frequently. They get sucked into cults of personality and religious extremism frequently. They are conned frequently.
Intelligence isn't infalliblity.
I never did.
True. Objection, relevance.
Exactly this. Why is everything nowadays neurodivergent...
because it makes people feel special to say they are neurodivergent. it's a neat label to have for many folks.
it doesn't make them feel special to say they are lazy entitled jerks... which is usually the behaviour they are reporting on that they claim makes them neurodivergent.
and if you look at the neurodivergent communities on here... a lot of the posts are them basically claiming they have super powers.
it's the same psychology behind horoscopes, new age religions, flat earthers, etc. people really really really want to feel special and different and superior (or persecuted/victimhood) to 'everyone else', and neurodivergent has become yet another way for folks to feel that way about themselves.
So the neurodivergent folk converge on it? This rule of thumb makes no sense to me.
Are you questioning the rule?
Yes, maybe I just didn't understand it.
you're clearly not neurodivergent enough. gotta level up
another one that would indicate im apparently not neurodivergent because I have a hard time not following rules regardless. Like to my detriment. Unless i find them like morally wrong.
Not playing a tabletop game with you.
fair but I do understand the concept of house rules. rules just have to be agreed on before the game starts.
Fuck yeah I cheat at Candyland, motherfucker. Watch out!
So neuro divergent are just autistic?
Yah not loving how nd just becomes whichever one you're thinking of, or just some vague difference. It's like the "Asian" of cognitive differences.
Like ocd and bpd exist, for examples.
I mean I do it sometimes too, but it does exclude
I'll just do what causes least harm / most positive things. If following some obscure rule doesnt require worthwhile effort from me then might as well, in case something goes wrong. If there isnt any logical reason to suspect ignoring the rule would cause harm then I'll just put it lower on the priority about how things are done.
Until i actually know better, i dont want to assume anything poorly explained is irrelevant.
Well yeah, there are only two kinds of rules:
If you can't at least give a basic reasoning for the rule, it's #2
Conversely, if someone is honest and says, "this is just how I like it I'm not really sure why" I'll at least respect it because they were honest, and a silly (little) rule that exists because of some cope or something is something I can relate to.
There's some people who aren't neurodivergent and do the same. Some people just don't want to follow rules they don't understand, which can be pretty annoying
If you can't explain your rule so it makes sense, your rule is shit and you expecting others to follow it are the actual annoying person.
Very often the reasoning is "convention". Is that good enough?
If we would blindly follow convention people would still not wash their hands before operating.
Convention alone is not enough. There should be a reason why this convention is needed. And that's the part that has to be more convincing than "it has always been like that".
Sound exhausting. If my company tells me to use times new Roman I will just use times new roman instead of investing hours in an investigation.
I'd rather ask if it's okay to use arial or another sans serif font, than blindly use Times New Roman. And even if I'm forced to, I'd try to undermine this "rule" as much as possible because TNR is not a good screen font.
I've heard plenty of unreasonable people say this about completely reasonable rules. Hell, I've heard someone say this about seatbelts, "it doesn't make sense how it isn't my own decision" lol
Sometimes people just don't get something. Doesn't mean the rule is bad if you don't get it lol
A seatbelt you can't adjust the height would actually strangle me in a crash. Not that i don't put it on, but there might be reasons in some cases.
The only argument you need is, can you catch 200 lbs going 45 mph? 25 mph? 1 mph? If the answer is bro, I can't catch 200 lbs, wear your fucking seat belt.
Now do that with one of the belts going over your neck.
As it should be
Yoo..so that means im neurodivergent?? Cause I do this ya'll
y'all
mfer you use lemmy. of course you are.
This isn't a neurodivergent thing. It's an intelligent / ethical person thing.
Yeah I agree.
I'm autistic, have a sense of justice being the result of reasonable clear fair and as objective as possible rules being consistently followed...
... but you don't need to be autistic to adhere to that. You can be ethical, moral, hold yourself to a standard, determine the reasonability of said standard, without being autistic.
Also... neurodivergence is more broad than just autism.
ADHD is a form of neurodivergence. On its own, I don't see that as being inherently relevant to rule comprehension, consideration or adherence, beyond maybe more complex rules or contingent rulesets taking more effort/exposure/practice to understand, consider or adhere to.
Schizophrenics are neurodivergent. Their ruleset often frequently changes considerably, due to reasons they often cannot explain coherently, and/or the rules they'll tell you they follow can be incoherent/contradictory.
DID is a form of neurodivergence. Each different identity often has its own significantly distinct ruleset / approach to rules.
Being bipolar is arguably a form of neurodivergence. Such people essentially have two rulesets that they alternate between.
It's also unlikely to apply to all neurodivergent people, so I don't know why it was phrased that way.
Because most autists have a stronger sense of rule and most ADHD of ethics. While some don't. They just didn't want to be exclusionary.
Yeah, I've noticed a real problem on here with that. Claiming neurodivergency for something that some people do and some people don't.
This is a trait that some people have. Some people do it more and some do it less. If it's combined with many other symptoms and it makes it difficult for someone to function in society then it might be grounds for a diagnosis.
I think things like this are also just representative of a general shift in society. There's a lot more education online and elsewhere about the power dynamics in society that might have been ignored or not understood in the past. So this behavior is more prevalent which coincides with an increase in neurodivergency even though those two things aren't actually correlated.
I don't think it's necessarily "a problem on here", I think this type of assertion is just part of exploring neurodivergency.
Does something really need to make it difficult for someone to function in society in order to be part of a diagnosis? That seems unlikely.
I disagree that this is an "intelligent / ethical person thing", although I don't really believe that intelligence and ethics is really measurable in that way.
Yes. It does need to make it difficult to function. That's one of the core criteria for most diagnoses in the DSM. "Neurodivergency" as a meme and - I guess you can call it a subculture? - on the internet is wholly misunderstood.
It's really hard to categorize neurodivergency. Particularly in contrast to being "neurotypical". There isn't an "average human" that they compare people to on a chart and say "yep, you're not up to this standard" gavel bang "autism".
I mean, just think about it. If more than 50% of people exhibited this trait in one way or another, this behavior suddenly becomes neurotypical, since the "typical" person possesses this trait.
But the problem with this, just like your problem with intelligence and ethics is that it's all impossible to measure. Behaviors like this exist on a spectrum. This is part of my problem with this aspect of the subculture and posts like this. This behavior happens in "neurotypicals" as well. Autism isn't a switch flipped in your brain that suddenly gives you special traits that neurotypical people don't have. Autism is a diagnosis that happens when a person has a defined constellation of traits that are generally correlated and one or more of which are making it difficult to function.
I saw another post recently that went something like "neurotypicals don't understand having to take a day off after social events" and "neurotypicals don't rehearse social interactions in their head". Which is simply untrue. Many many people take a rest day after a social event or think about how to handle a social interaction, the only difference that the behavior isn't so severe that they are functionally impaired by it.
Couldn't agree more. I do not follow arbitrary rules unless compelled to, as long as it doesn't harm anyone or anything. If you want me to do something, there needs to be a logical reason for me to do it
I generally follow the rules unless I have a reason not to. The rationale is that just because I don't see the reason for the rule doesn't mean there isn't one. If everyone ignored every rule they didn't understand the need for the world would be even more of a shit show.
So I stop at the stop sign when no one is around. I know I would only do it when it was safe, but so does everyone who got hit by a car running a stop sign at a blind corner in the middle of the night.
I'm definitely asking about it if it's the least bit inconvenient though.
Plenty of stupid unethical rules have detailed explanations.
The tweet misunderstands autism (And vaguely calls it 'nuerodivergence'). Questioning rules in autism is, at least in my own experience, more about justice than merely understanding why the rule is. We're not asking why for the logic, we're asking why to make sure it's just. You don't usually loudly disobey an unjust rule unless you're making a stand, you do it quietly without acknowledgement because people who enforce unjust rules tend to be vindictive and cruel about it.
No
Maybe.
I don't know
Coming right for me
To me not having middle ground means just not enough description of the scenarios and how the rule applies. If I see a list of several caveats and inapplicable situations, I'm very likely gonna develop some sort of statistical reason the rule applies differently sometimes.
sort of tangential, but this discussion reminds me of a recent conversation. we had a plumbing leak recently so we had to have these water damage mitigation guys come out and check all the floors and drywall and figure out what needs to get replaced, yada yada. and they've all got these things they call "moisture meters" which are little black plastic boxes with a digital display on the front, and you hold it against a surface and it shows a number that somehow indicates how much water is absorbed into the material. so I asked one of these guys "hey, how does that work? like what's it actually measuring?" and he gave a response that sounded in tone like a technical explanation, but the actual information essentially boiled down to "it tells you how much water is in there, and if it's above 20 it's bad." and I'm thinking like, yeah, I got that, I figured that out from hearing you call it a "moisture meter" and watching you use it for ten seconds. is that what you thought I was confused about? obviously I mean like, what quantity does the number represent; what are the units; what physical thing is being measured to generate that number; is it based on a physical property, a thermal property, chemical, electrical; you're using it the same on wood, drywall, carpet, insulation, how does it apparently treat all materials the same when they have different physical properties and absorb, hold, and release water in different ways? it just baffled me that I could have all these questions less than a minute after seeing one for the first time, but this guy who uses one professionally every day only needs to know water>20=bad
I once was doing some it support trainee work on some education facility. Their old it manager retired while i was there and whole it support thing was outsourced to some external company. They probably knew their shit well enough but still i had to explain some things about office 365 to them (i hadnt even used 365 properly before that ) and i felt that i knew some things better than them. Yet they were the ones getting paid.
They were probably better qualified to do the job in general, but still in my opinion some random trainee shouldnt know more about anything than PAID professional who is supposed to take care of everything. Though I also head from them that they are quite well worked and have to work on MANY sites and basically are not allowed to make mistakes, so maybe there was that too. Seemed really stressful to work for that company.
Spent a few minutes researching because I was almost sure it was just measuring resistance but that is different depending on materials.
They measure moisture by using a scale of wood equivalent moisture. Basically no matter what you stick it in, the pins measure resistance across the probes and give a number as an equivalent reading for sticking them in wood that is wet. Apparently wood is pretty consistent about resistance regardless ofof what type of wood it is. And since American houses are primarily made of wood, we only care about how wet the wood in a home could be.
That's pretty cool. Doesn't work on drywall or anything else though it sounds like
No it does work on drywall.
Water will spread until it reaches equilibrium. So if drywall is tested and shows 20% then the wood directly attached to it is likely at 20% moisture content as well.
Kind of a genius little device, honestly.
Shouldn't that be the other way around? You can make the extrapolation from the (more accurate) reading of the wood to the materials around it, but not from other materials back to wood. If the resistance of wet drywall is equivalent to that of wood at 20% moisture, I'd think that the drywall is a lot wetter? And using the device on a steel beam might show some insane percentage when we know steel does not absorb water.
Someone should make a specialised tools community like Reddit's. Would be a good fit there
How curious is the average person about the inner workings of a phone while using one? Most of the time people just need to know how to use tools, rather than the specifics of how they work.
Not really the same situation. Knowing how that box works is the difference between being confident the person trying to sell you on home repairs is an expert or just some guy with a box designed to scare rubes into buying more shit. I don't need to know exactly how my phone works because all it's doing is taking calls and browsing the web. If it had some app that was measuring something to try and sell me shit, I would want to understand how that worked before I bought into it.
You were sold the phone. How did you know it would do what you needed before buying it? You didn't try to understand it, you looked at reviews or just put blind trust in the company that they know enough about how it works.
I do have a general idea of how phones work so maybe I'm not the person to ask but a phone costs hundreds of dollars. Fixing water damage is going to be $1000s. It's not the same level of risk. And yes you can look at reviews and the specs on their website before purchasing. If you're really interested you can watch someone on YouTube take it apart and see how it's constructed.
"All it's doing" as if there haven't been whistleblowers telling us they're spying on us for the past decade💀 But maybe that's not your special interest, fair enough.
Well, yeah. But there's not a lot to do about that if you're going to have a smart phone.
Ignore that guy. I agree, that sounds like black magic fuckery and I need an explanation.
The problem is that all the rules contradict each other in one way or another. If you know the reason for the rule, then you know which ones take precedence in each situation. Otherwise, you're just making arbitrary choices on which ones to follow and which to break, and if you can just arbitrarily break a rule with no obvious consequences, then why bother ever following it?
Exactly. Put the fucking shopping carts where they belong! But also don't get onto me for riding it into the coral like a bobsled led by imaginary bears.
Is riding carts autism or just being a kid for life? I still do this and DOS was my first OS...
upvote for DOS family!
🤘🙂↕️ started on 2.0 on my grandfather’s dual floppy pc.
dir/c://friend/hug.exedir/p
What version though? I think we started around 4.0. We were rocking a Tandy 1000 as our first "real" PC 😄 I still remember some amount of fanfare surrounding 6.2, 6.21, 6.22 lol
i forgot about Tandy PCs! 🥲 i liked the name lol
Are you me or am I you?
Edit: did you ever play with paint on Win 98 like it was a battlefield? And if so, what are your feelings on Worldbox?
How do the bears exit the cart corral?
Ghost bears
The ghost bears are only here for support.
Alas, they cannot interact with physical objects.
I said coral, though. It's a reef because they are reefer bears.
Politely offer them a marijuana joint in exchange for not swimming through the delicate ecosystem.
In my messenger bag, which is cave-like and bigger on the inside.
By bribing the herder
One does not herd bears. One asks bears.
Think of cats as opposed to dogs.
Fair, by bribing the butler then?
"Bribing The Butler" sounds like a sitcom.
No, it's all about mutual respect. Affinity, in some situations.
Same way they got in.
wouldn't they have to climb over the cart you rode in?
i mean, i'm sure it's not a problem. bears are agile climbers.
Even easier: they're imaginary bears, just imagine then outside the corral.
Ah, I see the problem: I'm imagining real bears. I need to imagine imaginary bears.
Let that be a lesson to you.
If you don't have an imagination within your own imaginations or the imaginations of others, it's time to expand the realm of endless possibilities within your very own imagination!!!!!
And I do this through the power of imagination presumably?
No, they turn around first, shake off the harness and push the cart into the next cart (while chuckling about how it's like sexxx)
Right on, good answer. AWAHOoOoO
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
passes ayahuasca cup & obligatory puke bucket
Is that really a rule, or more of a suggestion?
Wear a shirt that asks that question when I am guiding my cart led by bears into the coral reef corral! I dare you! Heathen! Miscreant! Obsturctor of order! Suggestiquator of squalor! You fool! The coral corral exists for a purpose! How will you navigate the parking lots, nay, STREETS..when they are filled with stray shopping carts! YOU SHANT, AND WE WILL ALL SUFFER FOR YOUR QUESTIONING OF THE ORDER DEMANDED!!!!!
Streets stray with my kin
Nay
The disregard forced injustice of the corrupted Pushers
I was a gift given freely
Anyway
There was a monster in the parking lot that day
Hahahaha. That's not "autism". That's just "normal". Right?
…Right?
.....right?
...^right?^
I swear, at this point, Padme's beasts fill the entire panel.
…
right?All my teachers in school hated me for this lol
you had really bad teachers. any teacher worth their profession should be overjoyed when student questions things
They should, but it varies case by case. Some really do get pissed off, when they feel like you are questioning their authority/intelligence/skills/etc. and do not realize you are just interested in the "why"s.
Teachers are just humans.
Yea whatever, fuck them. I always hated school because of this. I completely understand teachers' plight and all that stuff. It's hard to manage 60 kids n stuff (we had 60 kids per class in the country I grew up in), but still... Treating children like thoughtless, desireless, subhuman entities is one of the greatest tragedies occurring that society is highly blind to.
oh thaaat's why I have a fundamental need to explain the reasons why when detailing a process to someone
And I've found that most people do not care, they just want marching orders. Like, I'm not here to give you orders. This is what the goal is, this is how it's currently done, this is why we do it that way. They want to commit "how it's currently done" to rote memory.
And then the first (and second, and third, etc) time something does not go as planned, they're stopped in their tracks. Context was rejected, preventing understanding, leaving little framework for the unexpected.
So they ask me to tell him how to fix it. Well, I don't know how to fix it. This hasn't happened before. I do not have a step by step committed to memory. But I can probably figure it out if you give me a few minutes. There, should be good now.
"Jeez, I didn't want you to do it for me, why can't you just tell me how to do it?"
This. This hurts my bones.
Bit thanks for doing that, I tend to ignore rules completely when there's no reason given (or I think the reason is bs).
Mhm
If you don't have a good damned reason, then fuck your rule. Do you have any idea how many rules exist simply because it favoured one group or person over others? And now we're stuck living with it? Question all the rules. Many of them are selfish bullshit. Like this new everyone has to use AI, or OSs needing photo ID to function, or why rich people get to avoid prison for their numerous rule breaking crimes, even become president FFS.
Rules need to be wise or they shouldn't be followed and I'm not trusting most ppls opinions of whether they are wise or not.
Relevant story:
I worked in a pharmacy during COVID. Once vaccine supply balanced out to the point we could take walk-ins, we were told by corporate that even if someone was walking in without an appointment, we were to go into the system and make them an appointment for the current date and time. To clarify, this is a separate system than what bills insurance, notifies doctors, documents the vaccine etc. It's just an appointment system.
Dumb rule. Stupid. Did not follow it for weeks because we were busy, y'know, administering vaccines and dispensing medications.
Until I found out why we were supposed to do it...
This was the vaccine that you got one dose of, then a follow up dose ~6 weeks later. When you book an appointment, it automatically schedules the followup appointment and notifies the patient when it's coming up, helping us not get slammed with walk-in appointments and the patient not forget their second dose.
From that point on, I was adamant that appointments be made for every vaccine with multiple doses.
Imagine if they put in the why into the memo. But no, just do what you're told, yeah.
I genuinely thought that was everyone. Who just follows bullshit roles that lack substance or explanation - oh, right.
I have a hard time believing its not everyone because it makes zero sense to me why you wouldnt think through something critically.
You might choose to follow a nonsense rule because you know it would be against your best interest to refuse.
I think this is the great pandemic. I don’t know if I have a skewed world view, but so many people are in survival mode all the time that they don’t have the time to think about these things where those with autism don’t have the option not to.
I don’t think that these people want to live like ostriches, but I they’re so preoccupied with our current state of things that the energy and time simply aren’t available.
Having some time to sit quietly and consider your situation is a luxury few can afford.
"You cant do that, its not normal!"
The second part, where neurodivergent folks do follow rules and get angry when others don't, is the flip side of the coin where neurotypicals don't follow rules that they consider not really that important. They know the rules, they know why, they just think the consequences aren't that bad, or they don't feel the consequences or pure ego. Why is it pathologised when neurodivergent people don't follow rules, but when neurotypicals do it, its fine. Then neurodivergent people are pathologised for noticing neurotypicals don't follow rules. But when neurotypicals notice neurodivergent folk not following rules, not pathologised.
Sorry for the meaningless rant. I haven't had a coffee yet. Better go fix that. Eta: ok I've just had one sip, but now I've got more for the meaningless rant...
Why is it described as "if neurodivergent don't fully understand a rule" and not "when neurotypicals poor communication skills don't explain rules properly, whole swathes of people fail to follow the rule, because of said communication issue"
I don't know why it's gotta be neurotypical vs neurodivergent anyways. My audhd partner is absolute shit sometimes at explaining things in a way that me, a person with a brain tumor, can understand. He'll leave these gaps in his instructions because it seems obvious and intuitive to him, then get frustrated when I misunderstand.
Like, there was this time I was helping him cut some really long 2x4s, where the boards were long enough that it was off the saw table, which was making them bend and not cut right. So he had me go stand at the end and "keep them straight", which I interpreted as keeping the end from drooping AND/OR wandering off course. He just wanted me to keep it from drooping. So he got irritated that we had to try a third time, snappy with me about clarifying questions, and I still don't quite understand why keeping it from wandering off course was a bad thing.
Likewise, I'm also horrible at explaining things sometimes. My brain sometimes straight up forgets words, and I'm just over here hoping you can understand what I mean by "that thingie" and charades.
So what you are saying is that they operate in logic and reason and that they have a healthily critical relationship with authority?
I’m sorry? Which people are they trying to convince us are the broken ones, again?
The real neurodivergence is the charisma chuds; American was built for them. Dumb con men who’s narcissistic tendencies allow them to sell us all on how they’re actually the best ones and we are the weird ones.
I know it’s just reductive fan fiction but I like to imagine all the emotional disregulation baggage is just the realization of living in a world run by selfish children who would kill just to be popular and be waited on
this is why I can never live in Japan. there, the justification for rules is literally "because it's a rule". from preschoolers up to the Prime Freaking Minister!
you'd have you literately pull teeth before you could get to the original cause or thought process behind a rule.
of course there are autistic ppl there. they often get ostracized for sense of justice. literally. "seigikan"(正義感) is often unironically mentioned as a reason why someone is difficult to work with. the society also expects members to forgive illogical behavior by not mentioning "seiron"(正論) aka facts/logic.
at least in some western countries, ppl sometimes have the decency to feel embarrassed to complain about others' upright behavior. (i don't love western countries either)
The unwritten social rules in Japan would destroy me.
And yet there are autistic people that live in Japan and do fine with this system, so OP's post must not be accurate.
See also: ロジハラ ("logical harassment")
Try to figure out why you would have that be a rule if you don't get it though. There are some rules that you will never get explained why, but if you think from their perspective it can actually become clear of, yes this might be a kind of arbitrary rule in some cases, but it shows that you are capable of figuring out and following arbitrary rules.
Like how, I forget which band it is, puts in their contract that all the brown or green or whatever M&Ms have to be put into a separate bowl, because one time the people did not read or follow the setup instructions and people almost fucking died. They can walk into the dressing room and immediately see if the instructions have been followed based on a bowl of M&Ms
That's why it's a disability. I literally have to know why I'm doing something or it becomes a ridiculous slog.
I am not capable of following arbitrary rules that I know are arbitrary, because they are arbitrary and I’m not a robot. That’s stupid as fuck.
Edit: I really don’t understand the downvotes. Do most people honestly agree with this dog shit sentiment of just shut up and do as you’re told? That’s fucking gross.
Edit: Do you guys not know what arbitrary means?
Very few rules are arbitrary. A rule may be bad, or no longer relevant, but there must have been a reason someone went to the trouble of making it. Once you can figure out that purpose, you can accept or reject it. But until then, you must consider the possibility that your knowledge is simply incomplete.
I explicitely said not to just shut the fuck up and do what you are told. Either all rules are arbitrary or none are, as all rules are to achieve a specific goal and there is no logical way to get an aught from an is statement. Figure out the goal and decide from there, as in the example given: goal make sure that we don't die to them not following our instructions, so make one extremely arbitrary rule that would be one of the first things people like you would skip because they don't see the point in making sure that everything is set up exactly right. A decent number of rules are exactly like that, a quick vibe check to see at a glance if you are going to do the "arbitrary rules" that don't have an obvious reason but never the less have an actual important reason behind them.
If it’s arbitrary then it literally has no importance and is unnecessary. That’s what arbitrary means.
Just fucking teach your children why, if you can't explain the reason, maybe you shouldn't be doing it
As a kid I got in so much trouble just for asking why. Some teachers perceived it as their authority being challenged.
IMHO most people are not curious enough to have thought about why a rule exists.
I always want to know why a rule exists. I respect people enough to explain why a rule exists too.
This does lead to awkward situations where the reason why the rule exists is bullshit or worse.
I do this to my son as I am a person who wants to know why things are as they are. At least when he doesn't listen. Does not help really but I feel better explaining at least.
True that, I am the witness
I partly disagree. They won’t follow the rules because they have their own way of doing something, right or wrong, not simply because they reject following rules. That also doesn’t mean they won’t follow a rule they initially rejected if they FAFO the reason for the rule.
As for being pissed when others don’t follow the rules, 100% true. Whether it’s office favoritism allowing someone to get ahead rather than doing the work, or someone taking cuts in line. That’ll blow a fuse.
Posts like this make me think I'm autistic but I think I'm too old to get tested. I don't really care anyway. I'm probably "high functioning" enough.
I'm in camp "not diagnosed but something ain't braining."
This is not exclusive to autistic people at all.
I'm right there with you, but what would be the point of acquiring the label be, too?
I mean, I've made it this far without the label.
Accommodations, closure, and validation. I didn't bother getting one myself. But it can get you things like being allowed to use earmuffs at work or extra time in exams
Shit I thought this was ADHD but maybe its more autism. Literally since I was 5 I recall thinking to myself that unless I know the exact reasoning behind a task I will not do it. I'm still this way at work. If its an easy but meaningless task I'll take a whole day to do it. Difficult but meaningful task? I'm done in an hour.
Same! Over the course of my life I've frequently alienated managers at work because I always ask them to explain the rules they talk about and they interpret that as "talking back" and think of me as a rebel with an attitude problem. It's annoying.
These days I ask them to explain a rule because it will help me REMEMBER the rule, which is technically true and doesn't offend them as much.
More people have some levels of both, that those who only have one
The middle ground is having the rule be properly explained, but it contradicts logic so badly that the rule must not be followed, because its fucking stupid and only an idiot would follow that rule.
growing up, poking holes in the rulebook was entertainment. high school no smoking rule made me want to smoke.
I don't think that is quite the same thing, rules against smoking have a purpose.
Even if the explanations and evidence line up well, if there are obvious loopholes and pitfalls, I'll have problems with it. A lot of problems with it.
... see most social rules
An expectation to follow rules without an acceptable explanation, when the rule follower has not given consent previously to the rule maker to expect this is authoritarian behavior. Fuck authoritarian behavior and fuck authoritarians. I can't see how this is just a "oooh they're just autistic" thing ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I cannot relate to the first part. I love rules. I'm never like, that's a stupid rule. I'm like, yay a rule, I will absorb this and follow it forever, so I don't do the wrong thing.
What do you do in a situation with two conflicting rule-makers?
I've never been in that situation, but I would inform both of them and ask for guidance. Or, if it's a kind of situation where like, a sign posted says one thing but the person in front of me is directing me to do something else, I will do what the person in front of me is directing me to do.
Guess I'm not neurodivergent then anymore?
If it's any comfort, a lot of posts here are just a quirky, autism-flavored horoscope. With a neurodevelopmental disorder that both affects tons of areas of cognition/social development and is situated on a pretty broad spectrum, you're probably going to find ways of understanding rules in people with autism are generally different than in neutotypical people.
I don't know of any good studies that explore rule learning in autistic children/people generally, but I can imagine – even as someone autistic who vaguely relates to the post – that the experience is much more diverse than these "autistic people be like"-type Tumblr posts.
Also, this post is clearly substituting "neurodiversity" for "the neurodiversity I specifically have", given "neurodivergent" is extremely wide-ranging to include things like dyslexia and Tourette's
🙂
That's cause it's different for people even within the spectrum. Like, I'm suspecting I'm autistic. And large part of it is poor motor neuron coordination and having a poor sense of prioritising things. Plus difficulties with expressing myself and socialising that has persisted since my childhood.
Plus for some people it's aesthetic. The only reason I'm even considering getting a diagnosis cause life's genuinely getting too hard for me, to the point I was crying several times a day, and that's in a relatively benign work environment.
Look I don't mind people calling themselves autistic just cause they feel like it(cause it reduces social barriers for people who genuinely are autistic), just don't start generalising.
Also if you don't mind, can I ask you how was life for you, so I get an Idea for myself slightly better?
Oh no...
Which is also known as "common sense"
I have a self described neurodivergent coworker who has recently started leaving work around 30 mins early when it’s our job description to shut the place down. He reasons that if he skips lunch (because of his heroic dose of adderal) he earns the right to leave early. 🙃