Bernie Sanders urges progressives to vote Democratic in November
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493 replies
My voting flow chart is socialists, then democrats, then nobody.
Imo, we can fight over what shade of blue after the pedos are out of office.
This right here. And it goes for centrist dems too. If a progressive is the candidate on the ticket, vote for them. Don't let the pedophiles win this one
Seems notable that we don't have a headline with Joe Biden or whoever urging moderates to vote Democratic
It's not this headline, but I'm sure he has. Either he has or he's been told that saying anything may drive people away instead, so he's staying silent. Obama frequently does say this.
That might have more to do with the senile and dying thing. Or he might've said it already. He probably did but I'm too lazy to check.
Yes. The centrist ass dem I voted for veto'd a pro union bill. I would still vote for her over the alternative.
My primary votes are all left though.
Turning in a ballot with an empty selection is exactly the way to send the "voting for nobody" message that non-voters convince themselves they are sending, rather than the "you don't need to care about my opinion on the issues because I don't vote" message that it actually sends.
I cannot tell you how many sanctimonious jackasses I've met in my life that think their non-action is "sending a message".
Staying home or doing performative nonsense like not selecting a candidate or voting third party is basically non-action, and virtually no one sees the message or cares.
I thought it rather silly when I was still in university and hearing it from peers. These days, when someone my age tells me they have been doing this for decades I usually ask him them who has gotten their "message" and what was done about it?
We've tried nothing and we're out of ideas!
that's how i feel about the democrats every 4 years. -They keep trying the same thing while expecting different results.
One of the recent local elections i voted in had a list of 3 shit Republicans for sheriff. I chose to vote for none of them. Every other ballot choice i filled out.
Unless the elections are rigged any party has the same chances of winning, stop spreading misinformation and propaganda, voting a third party is as much action as voting red and blue is.
The overall election rules are rigged in favor of the D/R duopoly. I have several big posts, with sources, on the current statistics. To summarize:
Unless you have an independent or 3rd party incumbent, or have some form of ranked choice in your district the winner will be either the D or R nominee.
Your argument is that elections are rigged because a third party never got voted for?
I'm showing the observations that would lead one to hypothesize that the elections are rigged against 3rd parties. If you can look at the gerrymandered districts, the ballot access rules, the minimum percentage of the vote needed for public funding, the plurality-based vote counting, etc and then combine that with the statistically non-existent representation of 3rd party and independent legislators at the state and federal level and not suspect that the elections are rigged against 3rd parties then I don't know what to else to say to you.
This is not an accurate statement. Plurality voting inevitably results in a two party system, due to the spoiler effect.
Until we switch away from plurality voting, voting for a third party helps the party you least align with. It's math. If you're thinking of a scenario where magically a majority of voters all vote for a third party, you're not taking this seriously; that is not a realistic scenario.
Now, if you live in Maine, Alaska, or whatever other places that have switched from plurality voting (a) I'm very jealous and (b) you're encouraged to vote any third party as you see fit.
That's literally what they're implying. They're straight delusional. And, unfortunately, there's a LOT of voters and non-voters out there that are as well.
There should be a name for the fallacy where your stance presupposes that everyone in an uncoordinated system behaves in a coordinated fashion. Let's call it "The Green Party Fallacy".
People voting for whoever they want is a realistic scenario in democratic elections.
Do you understand what the spoiler effect is? It's sometimes called "splitting the vote".
It's why having, for example, two left leaning candidates and one right leaning candidate results in a win for the right-leaning candidate. With plurality voting the candidate with the most votes wins, without regard for whether that candidate has majority (more than 50%) of the vote.
Let's imagine that we have a population of 100 people and the demographic breakdown is that 60 of them are left leaning and 40 are right leaning. In a two party vote, the left leaning candidate wins. Now imagine a three party election with a liberal, a progressive, and a conservative. If more than 20 left-leaning people vote for the progressive candidate, the conservative wins. Since the voters know this, they have strong incentives to vote for the left leaning candidate they think is most likely to get the most votes, not the one they most align with.
It is technically possible for everyone on the left to all switch parties at the same time, but realistically impossible, especially considering that many people do prefer liberals over progressives.
The only way we get more than two parties is by abandoning plurality voting, and if you're voting for a third party in a plurality voting system, you're helping the candidate you least align with.
The world isn't divided in left and right, you are still assuming that voting for a third party is voting for blue.
You are assuming that American elections are more democratic than they really are.
How are they not democratic?
Every couple of months a brand new movie comes out and millions of people go to watch it because they hear about it on ads. It takes less than a month to make something popular among the public.
LOL, it's not misinformation to state the fact that voting third party is basically pissing away your vote. There is no real serious third party option. Maybe we can talk about some other country or some future where a serious party emerges in this country. Until then, what I said is truth.
Arguing to not vote for third parties because they can never win is indeed misinformation. Governments spend billions in propaganda, what the hell do you think they are advocating for? for people to vote for parties that aren't part of the government?
I would argue that any party is a more serious option than red or blue, they don't have blood on their hands.
All it takes for a party to get traction and votes is popularity and popularity can be farmed in a day, if a bunch of famous people with millions of followers would start advocating for a third party you would have a revolution in a week.
Not if they don't stand the remotest chance in hell of winning.
Oh, is that it?
Ok, you're just delusional.
Hey, it's like if every single worker in this country agreed to take part in a national strike, then worker's demands would be met the next day. Oh wait, that's a fantasy scenario that will never happen.
Lol. WTF?
Kiddo. The most popular 3rd party candidate in the last election (Jill Stein) got a whopping half of a single percent of the total votes cast. That means that there was absolutely, positively, categorically no path to victory for her.
So yeah, voting 3rd party, in a national election, is literally pointless and equivalent to inaction.
If you want to vote 3rd party in local/state elections, great. You HAVE to do that for a LONG TIME to start getting more than ZERO 3rd party reps in Congress, and making that 3rd party a household name, before it stands the remotest chance in hell of winning a national election, such as the presidency.
On a practical matter the message is still "both are equally acceptable to me", with a small shade of a slightly louder "I wish there was someone better".
But it indicates you actively participate and are therefore a winnable vote. That means campaigns are more likely to reach out to you in some way.
Since votes are secret, it really just indicates "I voted is this election and are 50/49/1 percent likely to have voted winner/runner-up/either"
I think not voting at all is a stronger message of "I wasn't encouraged to actually vote for or against either", but it's also indistinguishable from "I just don't care anymore" or "I was in a coma that November"
Have you observed that to be moving the DNC to the left over the past few decades? My observation is that after Kamala received fewer votes than Biden and lost to Trump, in the face of the historic (yet still measly) 4% of the primary vote being for Uncommitted, the entrenched neoliberals are digging in their heels and continuing to oppose progressive primary candidates in 2025 and 2026 primaries. My conclusion is that they don't care, and we can't trust them to get any message other than "you're fired, and being replaced by this progressive candidate." And the only way to do that is by voting for a progressive primary challenger in the primary.
I see people who don't vote saying they never receive any flyers, calls, texts, canvassers, or any other kind of outreach from any campaigns. And then I see people who voted in either the primary or the general say they are bombarded with those types of outreach. So it's hard for me to conclude anything other than that campaigns by and large ignore people with a public record of not voting. Because it's harder and costs more to get a non-voter to vote than it is to get a voter to vote against the opposition. And in first-past-the-post, that is truly what your vote is in the general. Not a vote for the best, but a vote against the worst who is most likely to win.
"First-past-the-post" is a terrible moniker to describe the sort of single ballot plurality wins elections common in the USA. It's metaphor is clumsy to the point of inaccuracy, since there isn't any predermined scale that declares a winner. Whether only 3 votes are cast or 3 million, the winner is whomever has the biggest pile. A better sports metaphor might be "shotput", but I think "plurality wins" is clear enough.
That being said, that the democratic establishment is ignoring the signals doesn't mean that they aren't relatively strong. The party's voters are moving to the left, so even if the consultant gang isn't responding to the collective "ew" of Uncommitted someone is.
Yeah, agreed on the wording.
What I mean is whether the signal is being ignored or misinterpreted is kind of immaterial. The desired result is not being observed, so a different tactic is required. We consistently have more non-voters than primary voters, so why not try voting in the primaries where each vote carries more weight than it does in the general? It certainly can't be construed as a tacit approval of neoliberal policies like a vote for such a nominee in the general could be. So you still get a more clear and direct message than you did with non-voting.
There’s always a worse choice of the choices for who to vote for.
Vote for the other one.
The only perfect candidate for you is you yourself. If you're not running, and you don't have some form of ranked choice, not voting against the worse candidate is one fewer vote they need to overcome in order to win. And for your 1 vote against them, they need two for them to get ahead.
you just wrote 'die' on a piece of paper...
"I'm aware."
except Fetterman, fuck that guy
In Canada, we have “centrists” that are really just fascists that don’t openly hate gay people. There is almost no difference between our current prime minister and the guy so many people were voting against. The stupid thing is that we have a proper progressive party.
My message to you is this: The conservatives know you’re scared and are using that. Their only tactic is to tell you that you need to vote against someone who is worse than them and then they get their power either way. It’s always “we can argue over the shade of blue once you put this specific shade of purple into power” and then nothing happens. The name-brand conservatives complain about them being woke, the “moderates” act like the problem is solved, and the left has to deal with both those idiots refusing to do any work.
Democrats have won multiple times since Carter and we're still broke and rent is still insane. You're preaching to the choir, but we didn't operate concentration camps on American soil, or start two-three(who knows!?) wars.
Better, at the moment is all I can get. One italian kid having the balls to shoot a ceo isn't enough for these sheep to actually do what's necessary to fix the disunited states.
Gotta agree here. In terms of endorsing human rights, Dems have a far superior record to the GOP. However, it’s their motivation that I question. Since most Dems are beholden to their corporate donors, their motivation is “freedom of consumption,” that is, giving access of consumption to marginalized groups to maximize profits. I wonder how much of it is a genuine concern for human rights.
It also explains how Dems don’t go far enough or fight hard enough when it comes to marginalized groups.
I’ll take a win regardless of the motivation, but it’s interesting to investigate the underlying motivations.
Have you considered that maybe part of the reason is that we keep slingshotting back to Republicans every other cycle and they do what they do best and fuck everything up, exactly like they're doing now?
It's massively disingenuous to imply Democrats don't do anything. They have a PROVEN track record for being better for our economy. They've regularly bolstered social support programs. They passed the ACA/Obamacare, which definitely helped me when I was younger. They've worked to forgive student loans. They don't make a hobby out of violating Constitutional rights. They don't send masked goons into our cities to kill Americans. They don't threaten our allies. They don't impose tariff taxes.
They aren't perfect, and clearly we should expect more out of them, but they definitely do get shit done and are a WAY, WAY, INFINITELY better option than Republicans and, realistically, the only other option on a federal level.
You're right. They held our wellbeing just high enough for us not to riot. Now they know our bottom line is even lower than the meager leftovers they used to give us to make us think they're the good guys. I'll still vote for them over Republicans but the "good cop" party only cares about us as far as it gets them.
Now, that's gonna change, hopefully. "The Democrats" that are pre-Trump are going to be seeing a bit of a socialist makeover before there's any power grab by them ever again. The Democrats we knew won't be The Democrats we know soon enough.
THANK YOU
I'm not sure what you are advocating for but if your argument is to vote for the democrat party to counter evil people such as pedophiles your best option is to advocate for a different party that isn't affiliated with any pedophile and that doesn't endorse genocides.
My flow chart represents exactly those people recieving my vote first and foremost if available. The Democrats are only viable in the absence of any decent choice.
Lol.
I still don't know what the right combination of words is to get this through to people like you. Or if that combination even exists. Maybe caps? Let's try caps.
NO 3RD PARTY IS VIABLE ON A NATIONAL SCALE MEANING NO 3RD PARTY EVEN STANDS THE REMOTEST CHANCE OF WINNING THE PRESIDENCY OR CONTROLLING OUR FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.
Did that work?
Even if a 3rd party started really putting in the effort (none are) and American voters started taking them seriously, it would still likely take DECADES for that movement to build to the point that it stood a chance of winning a national election. That means that you WILL have Democrats or Republicans in control of the federal government, likely for the remainder of your life.
So if you want to help a 3rd party by voting for their candidates in local/state elections, then I'm with you and I support you. But if you aren't adulting up and voting for Dems in NATIONAL elections to prevent ACTUAL FASCISTS from taking control, then you have failed at life.
Again, for the foreseeable future, Democrats or Republicans will control our federal government and Dems are so unbelievably better than Republicans that if someone can't acknowledge that, I have to believe they have brain damage.
Hm, it seems as if this patient is dying from a sucking chest wound. Doctor, how should we proceed?
"First, we need to get his diabetes under control. Then we will stop the bleeding."
That's the thing, there will always be those COUPLE OF DEMOCRATS that come out of nowhere and flip on ONLY the key issues we care about. Lieberman, Manchin, Sinema, Collins, Fetterman, etc.
Funny how we always just have to vote a little harder, right?
A lot of moderate and right wing Dems here.
Fetterman is a Trojan horse. They sent an undercover chud to parade around as woke. Bro looks about as woke as a snorlax
If Democrats don't take at least one chamber of Congress in the fall, I genuinely worry they may never again. The little that's left of American democracy won't survive another 2 years of full MAGA control. Anyone urging you to not vote for the Democrat in your races or to not vote at all is either running a right-wing/foreign influence campaign or so clueless about the big picture as to be safely ignored.
Good that you’re holding out hope. Some of us have already lost that lovin’ feeling.
To clarify, I was just saying the bell may already be rung, and I’m no longer of the view that we can definitely right this ship. BUT I am NOT saying we should not try. I’ll keep trying until the bitter end.
Anyone urging you to not vote for a party that supported and fueled a genocide is running a foreign influence campaign? Sound most likely to be the other way around to me
The party is far from unified on that issue. There are plenty of anti-genocide voices within the Democratic party, and you should try to elect Democrats if you want any of them to be anywhere close to holding power.
The previous blue administration endorsed and fueled a genocide where thousand of kids were murdered, without any repercussion. To me it looks like they are quite unified on the issue.
How would you feel about anti-corruption voices within the republican party?
The previous admin is not the whole party. Clearly the republicans are better on this issue 🙄
If that were the case, why don't any of the DSA candidates run on their own party? Oh they don't? So you're clearly full of shit or you don't know anything about this topic to have an opinion
If you would rather run with a party endorsing a genocide than with another i'm gonna guess it's because you are actually fine with their policies. There are more parties than red or blue.
You didn't answer my question. Why do all the anti Israel DSA candidates run on the democratic platform? THINK MAN. THINK
yes TheFonz let's think, why do these politicians keep aligning themself with criminals? If i have to guess it's because they care more about power and being popular than doing what is good. Is bernie sanders an anti israel DSA candidate? Why is he on the platform of a nazi and doesn't even bother to spend 2 minutes to set up a mastodon account?
I mean, I have to ask. Are you brain damaged?
Really. Be honest when I ask this next question.
Do you actually believe a 3rd party can win a federal election?
Because the most popular 3rd party candidate in the last election (Jill Stein) got a half of a single percent of the total votes cast. Meaning there was absolutely, positively, categorically no path to victory for her, or any other 3rd party.
So no, there is literally no other party than red or blue when we're talking about control of our federal government.
So you've either got to be brain damaged or so acutely unaware of American politics that you really shouldn't be commenting on it.
Foreign influence campaign is the generous assumption. No one would be stupid enough to genuinely recommend we hand the election to MAGA because Democrats haven’t done enough against Israel.
Would they?
If you ask me the best way to handle power to the red party is to keep voting for red and blue, these two parties cycle in power and enable one another to win.
Well you didn’t say what you suggest instead, but third parties only hurt the party they resemble more. Bernie figured this out and works within the vehicle of the Democratic Party. I wish people would pick up the damn clue from him.
Personally i've figured out that this guy does nothing but propaganda for the red and blue party, gate keeping votes that could go to other parties and actually threat this corrupted system
I see. You’re still enjoying the fantasy of 3rd parties. Okay. I mean, we all go through that sometime.
Please, for the love of all things beautiful, shut the fuck up about this. It's old. It's tired. It's worn out. It's counter-productive.
Democrats or Republicans WILL control the federal government. One of those are ACTUAL, REAL fascists who utterly fuck up everything. The others are not and it's stupid and disingenuous to imply they are.
With that in mind, any person that isn't extravagantly stupid knows that we need to get Dems back in control of our federal government, after which we can work on reforming them to push them in a more progressive direction.
So please, stop with this tired ass unhelpful bullshit.
Regardless of the outcome elections, the GOP isn't leaving.
And if you don’t vote in primaries, you need to start. It’s the only chance any of us have a say-so on who ends up on the Dem ticket.
It’s hard to buck the establishment. ~16,000 people were the difference in a state of 10 million.
If every eligible voter participated it wouldn’t even be close. Always blows my mind seeing comments on voting doesn’t matter when I’m on average voting for 3-4 other citizens in primaries.
There better not be one fucking democrat that doesn't vote in the midterms and the presidential election in '28.
Oh, we’ll vote for them, but the Democratic Party must cease to be undemocratic, and they must stop their ploy to act as a honeypot to capture and neutralize progressive policies and politicians. They must reckon with us, not the other way around. Armistice. That is the offer. After the midterms there will be deep canvassing in every district the shitlib Democrats thought were safe. Now they can go ask for more fucking money from their malefactors. They’ll need it.
It totally depends on the candidate, their platform and who is financing their campaign. Just voting for someone because theyre a democrat gives us people like Kristen Sinema, Joe Manchin and Marie Gluesenkamp Perez who end up voting with the fascists.
Fetterman, Manchin, and Sinema, bad as they are and were, were still the better choice compared to their general election opponents.
An occasional collaborator sucks,. but is less-bad than either an unrepentant facist or an aligned "moderate" like Collins.
I feel like people forget that the alternative to Fetterman was Dr Oz.
Swapping Fetterman for Oz would have given the GOP majorities in both House and Senate, put Mitch McConnell back as Senate President, and generally been an objectively worse outcome.
Exactly this. I don't disagree with wanting to cut the weakest members of the team to find someone better, but that's for the primaries.
Looking at real numbers, Fetterman is better than Manchin or Sinema. Fetterman breaks with party lines around 25% of the time while Sinema was at 33% and Manchin was almost 40%. That makes him around twice as good as Manchin.
Idealogically, he also seems to stack up more favorably than both Manchin and Sinema, and a few other well know congressfolk that never get brought up in these conversations. Fetterman, like Manchin and Sinema, just seems to draw more attention to himself when he does it.
Do I dislike Fetterman and want him gone and replaced by someone better? Heck yeah! But the record shows he's about 75% better than having Dr Oz as my senator would have been. Ignoring the times he did do what he was sent to do is very misleading to people that don't take the time to look at actual data, which is going to be nearly everyone. Conor Lamb's ideology score doesn't look any better, so what we got is still about the best we had a chance to get.
This is such a good point I hate to see it buried. The GOP in those areas would vote in satan2 if he had a red hat and said nice things about them.
Don't even need to say nice things about them. Trump talks down to his supporters all the time and they slurp it up. It's a cult thing. And if you have the mark of the cult upon your body, then you can say whatever and not lose support.
People also fail to take account of Fetterman’s stroke, which clearly affected his allegiances.
He was known before it as a homespun man of the people.
Brain damage causes conservatism.
Agreed. Fuck Fetterman, but fuck Oz even more.
That's what the primaries are for. Hope you have or will vote in yours this year.
And who was the other option? Was it a Republican? Is it your assertion tha the Republican they were running against would have had a better voting record? Because that's what you're saying if you're saying not to vote for the Democrat, no matter how shitty.
Or are you saying magically go back in time and run someone better? Because the opportunity to do so was not the general, but th eprimary.
But when it comes down to the general and you have one blue and one red option, GIVE ME ONE FUCKING EXAMPLE WHERE VOTING RED OR NOT VOTING BLUE IS THE CORRECT CHOICE.
Because all these people who sit out the vote are effectively voting red.
Also depends on the type of election. If you aren't a fascist and you don't vote Dem in a FEDERAL election (presidency) then there is something broken inside your brain and you need to immediately seek a more thorough education.
There is more nuance in smaller local/state elections though. But, assuming you aren't a fascist, you still need to determine whether a Republican (fascist) will win if you don't vote Dem.
If you want to vote 3rd party you need to accept that you are getting in on an enterprise building up from the basement of a very large building. You're going to need to vote 3rd party for very small local offices for a very long time before you can start voting for them on a state level, and even longer before voting for them on a federal level. There is no cheat code to bypass this.
Bernie also gave Pennsylvania Fetterman
Bernie couldn't have predicted his traumatic brain damage
This is who fettermans always been to anyone paying attention
Explain at what time and how he was brain damaged?
Dude's had multiple strokes; his own staffer notes his change in disposition
https://people.com/john-fetterman-shares-graphic-photo-of-stitches-after-fall-11850101
Prior to his Nov. 13 [stroke], Fetterman experienced a stroke while on the campaign trail in May 2022, and in May of that year shared that he had been diagnosed with atrial fibrillation, which affects the two upper chambers of the heart. Ventricular fibrillation, the condition his spokesperson referred to after Fetterman's most recent hospital stay, affects the two lower chambers.
In February 2023, Fetterman was hospitalized overnight for lightheadedness. At the time, his spokesperson said, "Initial tests did not show evidence of a new stroke, but doctors are running more tests and John is remaining overnight for observation."
Just weeks after he was admitted to the hospital in February, Fetterman checked himself into Walter Reed National Military Medical Center for clinical depression.
“Part of the tragedy here is that this is a man who could be leading Democrats out of the wilderness,” Jentleson said. “But I also think he’s struggling in a way that shouldn’t be hidden from the public.”
Thanks to the ignorant cunts who ignore primaries thinking they don't matter.
When that happens your November choice is between whoever got through the primary or the MAGAt, so people sit it out and bitch about their choices.
If enough progressives actually got involved rather than whining about things they could make huge gains and reshape the pathetic Democrats, alas, it's easier to whine on the internet then go pay attention in the summer and stand in line to vote.
Voters have helped train the party that they can be horrible politicians that are never held accountable because voters will keep coming back. And every election they get slightly worse, because there is no accountability. Our current political landscape is the fault of the VBNMW crowd that's allowed it to happen, including getting trump elected.
New York, and now Michigan, and I'm sure others will follow suite electing more progressive candidates because suddenly people are realizing primaries matter. Pointing backwards and shouting at the past isn't going to get all those fucking pedophiles out of office.
https://www.npr.org/2026/08/05/g-s1-137422/primary-elections
BE salty, but put that anger toward something useful, like helping a non establishment candidate win in a primary.
https://slrpnk.net/comment/23694070
It doesn't matter of Democrats are the majority or minority party if they do nothing to benefit the working class. You voted for what you didn't want in office and got it anyway.
I'm guessing you either did the same, or didn't vote.
I dont support fascists of either color
Oh, so did you get what you didn't vote for?
Eugene V. Debs
And this is consistent with how Bernie has voted over the years. If his vote doesn't matter on a bill that will move things towards his goals but not enough, he votes no. However, if his vote is needed, he'll vote yes because some progress is better than no progress.
And it is always amazing how people will claim to like Bernie but really don't like it when this is pointed out.
Perfection is the enemy of the good. I understand that. I am also empathetic to the choice of those who sit out elections when they feel ignored. I don't agree with it, but i understand.
Honestly though, we're not even talking about perfection. We're not even getting anyone that's better that the stock, spineless, no-idea Democrat in a lot of places. I get why people sit out when all you hear is no big ideas other than, REPBULICAN IS BAD, VOTE BLUE NO MATTER WHO.
I'll say it until I'm blue in the face.
Not voting is a moral endorsement of whoever wins no matter how bad they may be.
(For single non-transferrable votes like we usually have in the US this also applies to spoiling your ballot or voting for a vanity candidate.)
Do you know what's worse than stock, spinless, no-idea Democrats?
Fascist Republicans.
Do you know what happens when you sit out the vote?
You, as someone who might've voted Democrat, now are not. This increases the Republican vote.
You are enabling fascists.
People like me are frustrated by the spineless right-center Democrats as well, but I FUCKING VOTE BLUE TO PREVENT FASCISTS FROM TAKING OFFICE.
In the primary, vote progressive. Support progressives running for office! BE a fucking progressive running for office if you can. BUT WHEN YOUR CHOICE IS FASCISM OR NOT FASCISM FUCKING VOTE FOR NOT FASCISM OR YOU SUPPORT FASCISM. The general election is TOO FUCKING LATE and THAT is why you FUCKING VOTE BLUE IN THE GENERAL ELECTION NO MATTER WHO because they are better than the fucking fascist option.
Jesus fucking Christ it's not that fucking hard.
Are they? When they vote in a "bipartisan" way and ensure the fascists get 90% of their way? Nah, I've done and defended the harm reduction for the past decade and a half now, constantly holding my nose to vote for the assholes only to get mostly fascist bullshit. Nothing like Democrats who voted to give ICE MORE MONEY!
Nah, I vote in every primary for who I want and if after I vote someone who's going to run with a Republican, fuck them. I'll take the quick burn to the ground vs only burning slightly slower, not like these milquetoast assholes are actively doing anything to prevent it, welcoming fascism coming anyways.
Nah, I'm over the bullshit Blue no matter bullshit for no-idea, do nothingings especially when it's not reciprocated.
Yeah, obviously you are.
Look, you can whine about Democrats all you want. The reality is no 3rd party is going to win the presidency anytime even remotely soon. As in, even if a 3rd party actually started putting in effort (they aren't) and Americans actually started showing support for that 3rd party on a local/state level, it would still probably take decades for that movement to gain enough traction to have a shot at the presidency.
So you WILL get Republicans or Democrats in control of our federal government for the foreseeable future, and likely the remainder of your life.
Sooooooooooooooo do the math. It's really not that hard.
You get actual fascists. Or you get a milquetoast party that's always better with our economy, doesn't violate the fuck out of our Constitutional rights, doesn't impose tariff taxes on us, doesn't have masked goons executing Americans in the streets, occasionally does things like pass the ACA/Obamacare, forgive student loans, bolster social support programs, doesn't threaten our allies and cozy up to dictators, etc etc etc etc etc etc.
More power to you if you want to vote 3rd party in local/state elections. But if you can't adult up and vote for the FAR, FAR better option when it comes to a presidential election, then you're straight garbage. Period.
This is a profoundly immature statement. I promise you if a quick burn to the ground actually happened you would regret it. You are not prepared to live in a collapsed nation. I promise you.
You are correct.
But the people you are trying to address are children throwing a tantrum who want what they want and nothing else. So they'll absolutely not vote or vote for a 3rd party candidate for president that literally cannot win and, thus, help Republican fascists take control.
They do not care about the welfare of their nation (or any other nation). They care about their own self-satisfaction.
I'm also tired of trying to reach them by pretending that the only reason I vote Democrat is to prevent fascist Republicans from taking control. It's a strategy to try to plead with these idiots using a single, very important point. Keep the fascists out. But I've been alive for long enough to know that Dems are always better regarding our economy. They don't collect Constitutional violations like trading cards. They do things like pass the ACA/Obamacare and try to eliminate student debt. They vote to bolster social support programs.
I'm tired of pretending Dems are better just because they aren't Republicans. They definitely aren't perfect, but they get shit done and they have a track record to prove it. Most Americans, and especially the type that don't vote or vote 3rd party, are too goddamn lazy to do their homework to discover this truth about the Democrat party.
Dems are already infinitely better than Republicans. The Democrat party just needs to be reformed to be pushed in a more progressive direction, which is totally possible since we just witnessed conservatives reforming the Republican party in the worst way possible over the last decade.
Ah yes everyone in the other political party is literally Hitler. Convenient
My experience with the Obama/Bernie/Trump voter isn't that they have some nuanced understanding of politics that must be studied. They're just extremely responsive to a charismatic performance.
And then continue to work to make the party more reflective of its members
Might as well pin this. Going to need this until November.
Just your friendly reminder that online right-wing operatives have a strong inclination to sow defeatism and apathy and push people to vote third party when it's abundantly clear that there won't be a race anywhere in the country where the Democrat isn't better than the Republican in a binary choice election. Clearly, Bernie agrees.
Both the red and blue party are guilty of endorsing and fueling a genocide where thousand of kids were murdered
https://archivegenocide.com/
US and israel governments are spending billions in propaganda, if you ask me there's more change that they are promoting the vote for red and blue rather than a third party that could actually change the system and end israel support. Regardless of that you should not vote for any evil party run by pedophiles and that support a genocide.
Even if, it doesn't matter from a logical or ethical standpoint.
Sadly, the easiest bet to make is that either Red or Blue will win in November; and within that framework it is abundantly clear that Blue is the objectively better choice.
And don't forget, we would likely not be at war with Iran, the economy would still be moving in a recovery direction, USA would still be persuing climate friendly R&D, and we would not have concentration camps abusing and torturing immigrants and innocent citizens*
100%. At this point I believe that anyone denying this as fact is either a fool, or a Republican operative.
You are speculating what criminals who supported a genocide would have done.
Stop betting and start making serious decisions.
I will. The track record proves Democrats are better on all these issues, and there is ZERO evidence to suggest Harris would've revoked USAID that has now killed hundreds of thousands (more than Gaza). I will thus vote Democrat, as that is the only rational thing to do.
There was plenty of evidence to suggest this would happen if Trump and Musk's endorsement won.
Again, you are speculating what a criminal who supported a genocide would have done. If someone is ok with murdering children that's enough not to trust them on any issues.
If you were alive in the 1940 the only rational thing to do would have been to grab a gun and fight the nazi. I'm not suggesting anyone should go to war but there's no rationality in supporting a system that is rotten to the core. You are free to vote whoever you want but supporting the democrat party and claiming that to vote them is the only rational thing to do is simply not true.
Trump's choice to immediately dismantle America's climate policy will kill 1.3 million people, most in India/China/Pakistan/developing African countries. Tell me again how superior you are by throwing away a vote to keep them alive.
If the government is killing a million of people it's about time to take the streets. If you would rather enjoy your daily life and your commodities and vote for the lesser evil party you are not superior to anyone, if you encourage this lifestyle you are part of a corrupted system.
That's not relevant to the topic at hand and a false dichotomy. You had a choice to vote for mitigating the very obvious and irreversible tragedy. You tacitly approved a social murder 17x as big as Gaza on day 1, let alone a discussion about Democrat green policy mitigating more damage. The clock is ticking and already more than Gaza are doomed.
The slim chance at accelerating overturn of the system, which doesn't look any closer to today than 2024, was worth murdering them by inaction? Tell me what math you're using that doesn't look insane next to someone claiming that the world is more nuanced than 70k Gaza deaths. Tell me how your choice will end any differently to the people who decided not to vote for Al Gore to "teach Democrats a lesson", which only accelerated the irreversible destruction of our biosphere (in addition to numerous other tragedies)?
https://archivegenocide.com/
https://genocide.live/
This is what is happening to people in gaza and nearby territories. Go watch the videos of dying children and tell me again you are fine with the government killing only 100 of them instead of 300
https://www.indiatoday.in/science/story/india-heatwave-deaths-study-extreme-heat-public-health-emergency-climate-change-2920200-2026-06-01
3500 people died in one day due to extreme heat in India. At that rate you'd surpass Gaza's death toll in less than 20 days, and it's only getting worse. Countless more are now turning into climate refugees, forced from their unlivable homes just like the Palestinians. Tell me how little those lives mean to you.
Tell me you're fine with 3500 deaths - the vast majority being children, the elderly, pregnant women and chronically ill - on top of hundreds of Gazan children just to keep your moral purity. Palestinians are still being murdered, but at least the excess mountain of human suffering let you feel good about yourself.
The pedophile trump didn't start climate change, you can blame the red and blue party for that, both parties served capitalism and corporations for a century and boycotted people who tried to change the system for good.
I'm the one advocating for human lives and you are calling me out for it
I'm not and that's why i'm arguing we shouldn't vote for the parties that enabled this to happen. The genocide in gaza is just the tip of the iceberg of what the US government has been involved with.
I've never argued that, that's more what you are doing right now.
Lol. You're like a brain damaged parrot that only knows one word.
Clownosaurus. We get it. Genocide. We're pointing out to you that your actions MADE IT WORSE. But that brain damage of yours isn't allowing you to grasp that.
If the images of dying children makes you laugh you want to take a break and think hard about what you are doing.
Let's not back the 3rd party that's leaps and bounds better than either shade of fascism. Let's keep the status quo that's holding us all down firmly in place.
If voters keep rewarding bad behavior from their politicians the next version of trump to come along will be way worse.
Genius. Simply genius. Please, learn how Democratic primaries work, get engaged, and all your concerns will be assuaged.
You know what causes 3rd parties to not win? Voters that think they are not viable. You know what would make them viable? Voters voting for them. Instead of having some balls and voting your conscience most voters wnt to be on a 'winning team' rather than do what's right.
Spoiler effect is something that only happens in the minds of liberals, there could be NO 3rd party on the ballot and we are still not going to support your flavor of fascism.
They aren't viable when, election after election, they get at most 2 to 3 percent and everyone knows it.
Not my problem, I vote for what I want in government. I'll leave the tribalism to the fascists
Throwing away your vote helps ensure the worst of the two viable candidates gets elected.
Democrats alone got the worst of them elected both times. You've seen the numbers, Harris would have still lost if all 3rd party votes went to her. Decades of liberal 'lesser evil' has only resulted in the greater evil. That's what happens when bad behavior is rewarded.
This is incorrect, actually, but I expect nothing more from someone I have tagged for dubious claims about Russia and China. Yikes!
If anyone else has better arguments or questions and who isn't from .ml I'll engage in good faith :)
No one cares about your good faith when your good faith is only looking for confirmation bias
Sadly those 3rd parties mathematically have no feasible path to overtaking the two parties in control without dissolving one first.
To dissolve a party you need to first start by creating a schism within the party itself. Utilize that schism to create a popularist outcry that allows the reformation of a new party. We do not have a system like proportional representation that allows for 3rd parties to grow and develop influence via coalitions.
Ignoring this is just willfully ignorant and is actually a strategy that the two parties employ to split votes from their main adversary.
No one is saying they want to keep the status quo, just that it is more feasible to completely reshape the party than to elevate an existing third party.
We've already seen it happen over the last ten years with the Republican party. How radical right winged factions infiltrated the old power structures and pushed the party further and further right. We could do the same with the old guard in the democratic party.
Fascists appreciate your support.
Democrats don't appreciate my support
NO VIABLE 3RD PARTY ON A FEDERAL LEVEL.
NO VIABLE 3RD PARTY ON A FEDERAL LEVEL.
NO VIABLE 3RD PARTY ON A FEDERAL LEVEL.
Let me know how many more times I have to repeat it before it sinks in.
Fun Fact: The 3rd party candidate with the most votes in 2024 was Jill Stein with a half of a single percent of the total votes cast, confirming that no 3rd party has any path at all to winning a federal election.
Alright. So here it comes. Stick with me just a little longer. You got this.
Considering that we KNOW BEYOND DOUBT that a 3rd party can't win a federal election, that leaves only two possible parties that will control our federal government. Think REAL REAL hard about which of those two parties you'd rather have control and then GO FUCKING VOTE FOR THEM.
Then, to make yourself feel all nice inside, when your local/state elections come up, have a fucking blast voting for 3rd party candidates and I'll be right there cheering you on. Because voting for 3rd parties in local/state elections FOR A LONG TIME is how you ONE DAY get a 3rd party that can maybe possibly win a federal election.
Psssst. We only have 3 months until the election. Ain't gonna be a viable 3rd party by then. Ain't gonna be one in 2028 either.
Hope this helped. I somehow doubt it did though.
Decades of liberals thinking they're choosing a lesser evil and they've got to show for it is a greater evil
By better you mean to the left of trump, even though the DNC are now first term trump Republicans?
I mean even if we entertain what you say is true (it's not), yes -- that is by definition better than the alternative binary choice.
As your 'better alternative' keeps getting worse because there is no accountability
How exactly is Bernie Sanders a shit person. Please explain. I am willing to listen, so please do your best.
Yes, good job, this is a great example, thank you!
It'd be weird if he told people not to vote.
We've been voting for the Democrats to vote progressive for years.
Let's figure out an agreement and perhaps we're on board.
Just tell the DNC to ratfuck the primaries again, the people will obediently vote for the people happy to fund ICE at home and genocide abroad. There's no way telling the dems they can do whatever they want without risking lower turnout can backfire.
History time.
Frederick Douglas was an escaped slave who became one of the most influential speakers of his time. In 1860 he had a choice. He could support an Abolitionist candidate for President, or he could throw in with Lincoln. Abe had said that he supported the Union over abolition. Douglas figured it was better to win and have a seat at the table than to lose.
edit -Alcohol Corn responded to this comment, then reedited his comments later.
Kind of skews the actual conversation.
Even when Dems win I don’t feel like I have a seat at the table.
At best I feel like I’m at the kids’ table. “That’s nice that you want that, sweetie. Now eat your veggies and maybe there will be pie”
The working class will never have a seat at their table, they use us as pawns to elect them and stay in power then toss our needs aside after the election.
Did progressives get a seat at the table with Biden? No, it just told the DNC they could do deeply unpopular things and still win.
4 years later, we had more deportions than ever plus genocide under Biden and now we get genocide and deportations to El Savvadorian concentration camps under Trump.
The American Rescue Plan Act of 2021 (ARPA) was arguable the most progressive piece of legislation since Lyndon Johnson's Great Society. Progressives absolutely had a table in Biden's presidency, especially at the beginning. There's a reason Bernie Sanders threw his full-throated support behind him.
I would very much agree he seemed to move further right over 4 years though, and his response to the Gaza genocide was really telling. And his cognitive capacity definitely decreased
Did the ARPA help you personally or anyone you know, personally?
I don't know anyone who actually got their student loans paid off.
My wife did, and it's helped a lot. I don't know if that moves the bar for you at all. (edit: before -> bar)
ARPA paid my health insurance premiums, in full, until this year.
Oh man, ARPA funded so many social service programs. Homeless services and public health in particular were hit hard when the Trump admin cancelled ARPA funding last year. Emergency shelters, rapid rehousing, permanent supportive housing, outreach, vaccination programs, medical programs for people without insurance, and the list goes on and on, this is just off the top of my head right now
Most of this money was distributed to local governments for local programs
Are you trying to Both Sides this? What nonsense.
I am saying the DNC taking the left's votes for granted allowed them to justify the policies that lost them the election.
Right. Because a Black woman being nominated for President is in no way progressive.
The black woman immediately embraced every regressive policy that had just killed the Biden campaign.
You ever hear of "black faces in high places"?
A black woman sending your neighbors to a concentration camp isn't progress.
She got 65% of the vote in NYC.
Mamdani, running against a know sexual predator and a radio shock jock, got 51% of the vote.
He got fewer votes total, and a smaller percentage of the vote.
I'd love to be part of a big Progressive majority, but I know that we're a small minority.
Do you genuinely think policy like "free healthcare" is less popular than "subsidies for health insurance, purchased through one of 50 marketplaces based on how much healthcare you think you will need in the next year"? That genocide and ICE are more popular than no genocide and not deporting your neighbors?
I noticed that you edited your responses without noting the fact.
Looks good to people coming in later, but it's dishonest.
Good-bye.
John Brown was also an influential speaker of his time. A really cool dude. Though what happened to him shows that the US citizenry never had the stones to fight for what they believe in. They only think they do.
Well at least one contemporary disagrees
If you favor the 'John Brown' solution, why aren't you in Gaza or Ukraine right now?
I lack sufficient materials.
Here you go.
Just apply for a credit card.
Surely a dedicated warrior like yourself wouldn't balk at running up some bills?
Anything else I can help you with?
https://www.capitalone.com/
Now what's your excuse?
Sure. Can you provide sufficient liquid F
2whose gaseous form can achieve 500 ppm over a diameter of 50 kilometers? A sufficiently powerful smoke machine which can achieve this concentration over that area using the provided F2is also required. These materials must be transferred to the center of Moscow undetected.Think you can whip up that grocery list for me? Or do you have an excuse?
You've got the credit card, get cracking!
I think we're done here.
Fortunately I have rank choice voting, so I can vote for the progressive candidates first and also the center-right Democratic candidates after
Don't worry I will anyone who isn't an AIPAC shill or centrist will have my vote.
You need to include AIPAC adjacent, they are just one of many PACs backing Israel. And there's a handful doing the work of AIPAC for free
Did/will you vote in your state primary this year?
I will be voting and I usually do.
🍻
Haha, jokes on you my state democratic party decided it knows best and didn't bother to have a primary for any of my elected offices. Counting 2026, I haven't had a primary to vote in for my last House election, my last US Senate election, my last Governor election, my last presidential election, my last school board election, or my last city council election. I feel soo represented
Which state? I've only ever heard of two states leaving the presidential race off it and then only in 2024.
Every state had no democratic primary for president in 2024. Virginia had no Democratic primary for governor in 2025. Also had no democratic primary for senate in 2026. I'm sure you could narrow it down from there with a bit of research, but that's as close as I feel comfortable coming to doxxing myself
Hah! Yes! Virginia is no primary, but has important warm water port! No one can deny!
Yeah, call me a Russian bot for complaining that the Democratic party is not as democratic as I wish it was. You're helping.
Well that's just plain disinformation bullshit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries
Only Florida and Delaware left the presidential race of their Democratic primary ballots. There were like 7 candidates for the presidential race on the ballot in Texas.
edit: adding links to the two cited Virginia primaries
Virginia 2026 Democratic primary Senate race
https://ballotpedia.org/United_States_Senate_election_in_Virginia,_2026_(August_4_Democratic_primary)
Virginia 2025 Democratic primary gubernatorial race only had one candidate running unopposed
https://ballotpedia.org/Virginia_gubernatorial_election,_2025_(June_17_Republican_primary)
Granted I would prefer to still have the vote so people can cast an empty or write-in ballot. But there wasn't a blatantly nefarious plot to deprive the voters of a choice between declared candidates.
I'm sorry, let me correct my statement then. At no point did I have a vote in the selection of any of those democratic candidates, my rubber stamp vote for Biden did not select Kamala. There was no alternative for Spanberger, and my city just straight up cancelled their Dem primaries this year. There is a uncomfortably wide and long-running pattern of the field clearing for the party candidate before the question is put to the voters. But you got me on a technicality, I'm spouting misinformation
Well I did agree with you that they still should have the single candidate race on the ballot so you could have voiced an opinion. Other people could have run, but didn't, and that's on them for having chosen not to. As a far as Harris goes, they did open up the field for people to declare a candidacy to be voted for by the delegates to the convention, and several people did, and the pledged delegates did get their vote. It was a year of extraordinary and unprecedented circumstances. A measly 4% of the primary vote going to Uncommitted was enough to Garner massive media coverage, impacting public opinion, and pushing the donors to pressure the sitting president who was already the presumptive nominee to drop out. You can't tell me that wasn't a demonstration of the will of the people, starting with the primaries.
AOC and the rest of the squad got in thru their respective primaries, without party support. So did Mamdani. And Stayed and several others this year.
And I absolutely agree you about your city-wide primary being cancelled. Maybe you could consider joining the party to push for change.
Great roll call nomination, with only one candidate. Yet she didn't get 100% of the votes - Some would rather abstain
Other people could have run, but didn't. That's on them.
As is tradition.
For a while now the Ds have been owned by corpos. They support the establishment and that stance is as far left as center right, and many times far less left than that's. A lot of D candidates have R policies with some lip service to left ideology. The governor of MI was caught saying she didn't care what the people wanted about data centers, she'll make a deal to build them anyway. Gavin Newsom is positioning himself as a presidential candidate and he's about as corpo establishment as someone can get. So when the choice is a corporate owned candidate thats either far right or center right, its not really a choice. I won't vote blue no matter who b/c that just enables and empowers Ds to continue acting like they currently are.
No. I won't. I'm paying attention to the people left of center. Fuck dems.
Won't do anything where I live. Every single non-MAGA person here could vote Dem and the Republicans would still take it in a landslide.
I think it'd be a lot easier and smarter for Bernie to convince the centrist dem leadership to stop supporting genocide and at least pretend to give a crap about the needs of the voters than bernie asking all dem voters to support genocide (thats implicitely what he is doing if we are real about his ask) and to support a dem party that ignores the peoples needs.
Will do, sir!!!
He could have been president of the US if it wasn't for the Dems stabbing him in the back (while simultaneously shooting themselves in the foot). Amazing.
Thank GOD for this! I was WORRIED, with all the Democrat Leaders NOT endorsing OR supporting Progressive WINNERS, that we ABANDONED our BLUE no matter WHO Mantra! THANK you Bernie for Bringing it back in case a REPUBLICAN wins the Democrat Primaries!
Stop fighting amongst yourselves please, and get united.
Your options are limited to voting your way out of it as a team or peaceful shutdown as a team. Both take unity. Preferably, this election is fair and you do it this way.
You’ve already proven to yourselves you can do it…it happened a couple of days ago in Michigan. Yes, I’m aware it’s different across the country, I’ve had you yell that at me for months. Either way it’s the same end…a candidate wins by a majority of votes.
Either way the options are limited and you have to have a go.
It’s hard for the rest of us to accept your excuses though, when we see you fight amongst yourselves like you are here.
Go ahead, attack me for this, but it stays the same, Sanders is correct, and if your hatred of my comment or my view gets you voting or helping someone else to, my job is done.
Bernie got fucked over in two primaries and his political ideology is not aligned with the Democrats. Given his influence with voters, his endorsement would go a long way towards helping independent candidates win. I don’t understand why he’s telling people to vote for plutocracy unless his stated political views are not sincere or his family has been threatened or something.
o noes the ml have to slag Bernie now
Bernie "genocide is a legal definition" Sanders?
🔔
I'm thankful he's saying it now but it took him way too long, don'tcha think?
Well I was leaning GOP but if Bernie is urging me I guess I'll switch
Remember why the Republicans lost the Spanish Civil War. They couldn’t get over their internal squabbling and purity tests.
Well see I voted for the democrats before and look where we are now, things are worse than ever!
Surely he answer is to protest about Gaza outside Democrat events.
This will send a clear message to everyone that I'm a leftist.
/s
This is such a frustrating take. If we're unable to protest outside dem events then what's the point of having actual opinions? We should be able to ask more of our politicians. We should be able to express our dissatisfaction with their policies.
Say "vote blue no matter who" all you want, but theoretically the reason it's vote blue and not vote red is because blue represents our positions more than red does. If we're not able to hold them to that ideal then we're just picking our favorite color.
Also, acting like the people protesting are somehow in the wrong when most people aren't lifting a finger to stop a literal genocide is certainly a take. Most people I know who care about Gaza still vote blue no matter who and acting otherwise serves to discredit a movement that is attempting to fight for the things we as dems/leftists theoretically stand for.
You seem Australian, so I'm just going to add that America has a long history of protest movements and denigrating modern day Gaza protests is a pretty good predictor of how you'd feel about Vietnam war protests or a lot of the civil rights protests. I don't know how things work in Australia, but in the US, most of our rights, even the bill of rights, are the result of people willing to put themselves on the line for what they believed. Unless you're pro genocide, I don't see a point in taking issue with Gaza protesters.
That's a straw man. I don't have any issue with Gaza protesters.
I just don't understand why you would use your protest to undermine democratic candidates.
Why not protest outside republican events? That would certainly be more impactful.
In the history of these American protest movements, which of them were successful by protesting outside events of government candidates trying to get elected ?
Of Trump and Kamala, which do you think the people of Gaza would have preferred as president?
The Gaza protests at the last election were an absolute farce. An absolute win for the Trump campaign. If they weren't planned by the Trump campaign then they should have been.
How else do you get them to change policy before they lose to someone as incompetent and loathsome as Donald fucking Trump again?
Are you suggesting that elections are won on policy? If so how did Trump win with policies like "tax the American people".
Trump ran on tax cuts, he said everyone making less than like 50?K would get a letter from the IRS saying "you won!"
He was lying of course, but the dems can't even bring themselves to lie and tell the people they want to vote for them they're going to stop the genocide in gaza, abolish ICE, make healthcare free, and throw Trump in prison.
...actually jk, I didn't vote at all. If I can't have it all, then burn it all down!
Also /s
The Gaza protests Worked. The protests outside the DNC worked. The protests on university campuses worked.
From 2022 to 2025 protestors, rallies, journalists, and online accounts completely shifted the narrative on Gaza.
Through 2020, Israel was as untouchable a topic as our insane Defense budget. The only listened to voices opposing Israel were the crazy anti-semites who hate all Jewish people.
Now? Leftists hate Israel. MAGA hates Israel. Anti-Trump Republicans hate Israel. Liberals want Israel's atrocities investigated. Islamophobes hate Israel.
As Trump himself said; Everybody hates you [Bibi] now. Everybody hates Israel because of this.
Also, the protestors for Gaza / against Israeli genocide aren't calling themselves "leftist"s. They're anti-genocide. That's part of how they were able to get such broad support. Thyey didn't push the partisan bullshit.
And the outcome of all this? Spain's criticizing Israel. Football sportscasters are criticizing Israel. There were mass calls for FIFA to cancel Israel's game; FIFA refused and now nations are pushing to cancel FIFA.
In domestic races; Establishment Democrats and Republicans alike are crumbling to grassroots nobodies on Israel.
Zohran Mamdani, a Muslim, won EVERY district except the wealthiest one in his mayoral race; running against DNC-backed Cuomo who was the prior Governor. Mamdani criticized Israel; Cuomo screamed about it; and Cuomo lost.
Every time the Mainstream Media tried to criticize these outsiders on their opinion on Israel, they double down and sweep their elections. Said Media has largely stopped bringing this up in local races.
A position on a nation halfway across the world is as influential an issue as the data centers that are spiking up residents' electricity bills and literally evaporate fresh water supplies.
if you want to be cynical about protests; tell the "No Kings" rally that they stand for nothing and will accomplish nothing. The Gaza protestors are winning.
There's no evidence that the Gaza protests are what led to the souring opinion on Israel. There's also no evidence that the souring opinion on Israel has saved any Gazan lives. None at all.
It seems like Israel has achieved what it set out to in Gaza and has moved on to other targets. What a great victory you have achieved.
Besides which, I don't have a problem with Gaza protests in general, but protesting outside democrat campaign events is just plain dumb. Absolute stupidity.
Finally someone gets me!!
Democratic as in the democrat party? The party endorsing a genocide?
Dems are coupable to everything the Republicans have done. They are on the same team. Against us
Sincerely - a non extremist dem
Controversial take! Does he usually suggest they should vote for the red anti-healthcare party?
Lmao
Dems when you hold your nose and vote blue no matter who:
"Don't bring me problems. Bring me solutions."
The VBNMW crowd gave us Fetterman, Simena, Manchin, and Trump.
No, the “I’m voting for rando-3rd party” or “I’m sending a message by not voting” folks got us Trump. And specifically people like you encouraged it, so your opinion here is either completely wrong, or disinformation on purpose.
Guys Momela herself has come here to shame us for not voting for her twice. while she failed to capture 20 yr olds and lost in a post-covid blowout to Donald fucking Trump. Now we're cooked.
Imagine getting utterly dog-walked by a senile pedophile and blaming the people who did vote for you.
Not sure what you’re even saying. The blame isn’t for the people who actually voted D come November, but the 3rd party voters, or “protest voters”. Unfortunately, with the way the US voting system works, a vote for a 3rd party come Election Day is absolutely a throw away vote.
Word maybe the democrats will listen when I say I won't vote for genocide. I mean I have the power to win them the election, they should listen right
They will learn nothing, their failures are always someone elses fault
Hope you’re enjoying Trump then with that mindset. Thanks!
If your only two options are genocide, then your country deserves to burn.
Every 3rd party vote could have gone to the trump in blackface candidate and she still would have lost.
Nobody who "abstained in protest" were ever going to vote anyway. That's not a thing serious people do, those aren't a voting demographic, it's just a cope unserious people say to explain why they haven't gotten their ID to vote or done the bare minimum to register.
DNC people blaming their losses on that are just trying to distract from how their strategy to resist fascism for the last 15 years has been to run aging, Republican-lite, Obama cabinet members and expect the new onslaught of Maga to just compromise with them. They don't change, they don't reflect, they don't reach out to young people, they just capitulate the the worst humans alive and then they blame their own base when they lose to those humans.
The DNC gave us Trump both times
I want to hear from him as much as I want to hear from Clinton, none. He's a fucking sheepdog that tries to play the good cop for the oligarchy
Oh look, a brand new account trying to dissuade voting.
okay, russian bot
This brings to mind an appropriate quote.
You may not be able to vote out fascism. But you can certainly let it in by not voting.
Only 2 kinds of Americans: Amerikkkans & Americucks
Take yourself out than bud
Fucking useless trash.
Bernie is a fucking cuck
fIgHt FaSciSm bY eMpOwErInG aCtUaL nAzIs
Do you not agree that the democratic party is responsible for the acceleration of the genocide in Gaza? Seems pretty Nazi like, or at least cool with Nazis.
They are cool with Nazis as long as it's their Nazis
Why limit yourself to one genocide when you can 17x the deaths by letting maga win?? Going to keep posting this until someone gives me a sane answer:
Biden shattered trumps record of fossil fuel production lmao. America is the number one co2 producing nation. You're killing us all, no matter if the president is blue or red, lmfao.
China almost triples the U.S. CO2 output.
You might be thinking per capita, but that's not really as important as which countries pump out the most total CO2 emissions.
Not sure what that has to do with anything, Trump is shattering that even more. Unless you'd prefer the US stop production and fuel usage increase by 30+% just through shipping oil from the middle east.
Biden had total greenhouse gas emissions (you know, the thing that actually matters) down to their lowest level since 1989. Lowest per-capita since 1940. Tell me more about why Americans should give tacit approval for mass death, displacement and extinction with a non-vote to halt and reverse that progress.
Give me the math on how many millions of brown lives you approve of murdering by that method in the name of accelerationism. I'm not joking, tell me. How does permanent and irreversible climate damage, hurting countless future generations, stack up against X million lives today?
[BTW China has overtaken the US in total GHG and CO2 emissions for a while now, should probably take that lie out of your argument]
I think America should be brought to collapse with crippling sanctions and then your country disarmed and balkanized so you can't do anymore damage to the rest of us. Every living leader should go through Nuremberg style trials.
Should we go by per capita? Or count the emissions produced by China in the production of American goods against you, lol? You offloaded your manufacturing to China and then blame them for making your shit? Get serious, please.
That's a fine position to have if you want to hold it. But that still dodges my actual question: what does any of that, in a real material way, have to do with putting a blue ballot in a box to prevent the mass tragedy of millions of climate deaths?
The onus is on you:
Prove to me that allowing the red fascists to be elected will lead to a better material outcome worth those millions of lives
You aren't doing that, you're just throwing a fit about reformism and giggling at the schadenfreude of policies like ICE and tariffs hurting Americans; ignoring the real and permanent damage done to millions across the globe.
Your position is childish and unconsidered. If you think it's imperative that the USA collapse then why aren't you banging the drum calling for foreign military intervention to dismantle it? Why would Democrats being in power prevent that solution? People are dying while you sit on the sideline and smirk, you're no better than your imagined "blue maga".
WRT China emissions: per capita the USA emissions were shrinking faster than China's per capita emissions were growing. So yeah I guess we can talk about that if you want to be wrong?
Also, you don't need to hallucinate offshored USA emissions, consumption based emissions are tracked for us
Look up some facts before you imagine more gotchas that doesn't exist
A Nazi in a blue uniform is still a Nazi
k. Glad that I previously blocked the other tankie trolls
Scratch a liberal...
Democrats wont get votes they dont earn, thats how theyve turned in to first term trump republicans, their voters never hold them accountable. Theyve learned that bad behavior is rewarded
Honestly, I'm almost at the point where I really don't want to vote for a shitty Democrat over a MAGA.
Slowly slide right with every vote or let the mother fucker burn bright and hot, I'm really leaving towards the bloodhound gang.
I mean look at what happened when voting for Katie Hobbs, you've now got 400K people, 100K kids starving due to capitulation in SNAP and she's reported to be running with a Republican now.
What the ever loving fuck is the point of voting Democrat when you're literally saying you're aligned with Republicans? And harm reduction? 400K people and 100K kids starving, starving like I had to go through growing up being food insecure, isn't fucking harm reduction and none of these assholes put up any sort of a fight to stop it. Just let "Compassionate" Christian Republicans just steamroll them like soft ass asphalt.
Your first line of nonsense tells me you’re an idiot, or a disinformation operative. Pick pretty much any random Democrat, and they will absolutely be better than a MAGA fascist.
Fuck off with this nonsense.
Your first line tells me you're a pathetic Democratic cuck that MLK warned us all about. Oh, no someone has an opinion that differs from mine, there for it must an idiot or mean disinformation! What a fucking pathetic joke that I expect from the standard Democrat. Can't even have a conversation without some ad hominem attack from the stock dumbass Democrat instead of a nuanced conversation.
Glad you like having 100K kids starving because moderate Democrats are so pathetic they can't fathom on how to push back against fascists and that's the best you can do for your justification for "harm reduction". Fuck off. I'm tired of the bare minimum better than a god damn Republican and that's what I see from the Democratic party at this point. Just pathetic, no action, no idea assholes that take corporate and foreign money and barely work for the American people.
Me I'd done even more so with Democrats that before and their pathetic crap and slowly killing everyone vs doing it quickly and painfully to make sure people wake the fuck up. Jesus fuck, you had millions that sat out the vote in the last major election because people are tired of the whole dumbass mantra about blue no matter, which isn't reciprocated btw when a progressive manages to get the nomination, who instead of standing for something and you're whole shtick is to just keep fucking that chicken. It's pathetic and honestly I'm just about done with the Democratic white savior, do nothing, bullshit. Fuck off with your Republican nonsense.
So you’re an Accelerationist, got it. Me, I’m tired of the bullshit opinion of folks who either sat out of the elections, or threw away their vote during the November election somehow trying to blame the Democrats when it’s the MAGA party that is causing this absolute shitshow.
Want to move the Democrats left? Make sure they actually have all three branches (which btw hasn’t happened since a small window during Obama’s first term).
Bot for the more progressive candidates in the Primaries, but come November when your chance is D or R, there’s only one obvious choice, unless again, you are either MAGA or an Accelerationist.
There's no nuanced conversation to be had because your argument isn't based on anything close to a nuanced perspective. Going to paste my same reply from elsewhere here:
Trump's choice to immediately dismantle America's climate policy will kill 1.3 million people, most in India/China/Pakistan/developing African countries. Tell me again how superior you are by throwing away a vote to keep them alive.
yeah i'll just vote to make myself illegal nbd
Bold of you to assume you'll have a choice
You should get yourself a better education then. Specifically in the history category.
Here's where that history education would help. I promise you that you aren't ready to live in a collapsed nation. What we've got right now would seem like a utopia.
Don't miss the forest for the trees. Voting Dem is absolutely the right thing to do, especially in the election that's checks notes 3 months away.
Naw hard pass, bernie is a shill. Commie that can't actually tow the line. Shut up and move on.
They still let me by the voting booths, and I always "accidentally" vote third party.
This idiot again. In another thread he said the Empire wasnt facsist.
What do you think shill means?
Maybe it's time to go touch grass.
How does one become this brain dead? Hope it's a bot, but it probably isn't.
Sayeth a Nazi
You really are a simpleton, "hurk a durk you nazi cause I can't form an original thought"
yes me and mods sure are simpletons
Not to mention the first page of your modlog contains the word Nazi 12 times. Hmm, wonder why.
No it's because you're an actual Nazi. Many people share that opinion because you post Nazi opinions.
Did you know that votes are public on Lemmy? I don't think the guy visiting my profile at 3:45am (and all other hours) to downvote all my comments has any room to call anyone else a troll.
"I'm a troll yawn" lol
Based and accurate.