Spyke

Syndicated from the fediverse. Read and engage on the original instance.

View original on lemmy.world
leopardsatemyface·Leopards Ate My FacebySunflier

MAGA Rep. Slammed After Tearfully Blaming Democrats For Having Trouble Accessing Abortion She Helped Ban In Florida

Florida Republican Representative Kat Cammack was widely criticized after opening up to reporter Tara Palmeri about having trouble accessing abortion for an ectopic pregnancy in Florida after she helped pass a six-week abortion ban in the state.

Cammack told the Wall Street Journal that she faced delays in receiving treatment for a life-threatening ectopic pregnancy shortly after Florida's six-week abortion ban took effect in May 2025.


Cammack blamed those delays not on the law itself but on what she described as misleading messaging from abortion-rights advocates that had made healthcare workers fearful of legal repercussions, telling the Journal:

“It was absolute fearmongering at its worst. There will be some comments like, 'Well, thank God we have abortion services,' even though what I went through wasn't an abortion.'"

MAGA Rep. Slammed After Tearfully Blaming Democrats For Having Trouble Accessing Abortion She Helped Ban In Floridahttps://www.comicsands.com/cammack-democrats-florida-abortion-banOpen linkView original on lemmy.world
1122

275 replies

lemmy.world

"what I went through wasn't an abortion."

Wooooow. The cognitive dissonance is strong with this one.

452
lemmy.world

it couldn't have been an abortion, there was no satanic priest in a hooded black robe, goat skull headdress, and ritual dagger

179
Jayreply
lemmy.ca

Welcome to 'murica, where everything is made up and the definition of words don't matter!

118
lemmy.world

Except that this is defined in the law, this is why healthcare providers are advised by their legal teams not to do it.

19
osannareply
lemmy.vg

I believe in either Florida or Texas (I don’t remember which. Probably both tbh) it’s considered murder to get an abortion and can be punishable by death penalty. Fucking arsehats

4
ferrulereply
sh.itjust.works

"We care about life so much that if you are about to die due to complications and you have an abortion we will kill you."

I guess at least with leathal injection it will most likely be less painful than dying in childbirth.

2

Nah, they don’t give a fuck after you’re born. But before? LIFE IS PRECIOUS! Except mothers who need an abortion, for reasons as ectopic pregnancies etc. oh, wait. Those aren’t abortions* apparently. At least according to Kat

2

Only whores and trollops would have an abortion. This is a life saving procedure! /s

30
Zephorahreply
discuss.online

The procedures are often the same. A D&C is a D&C, whether it’s used to deliberately abort a viable fetus or to clean out an unviable fetus. It literally means to Dilate the cervix (so the doctor can see inside and get their instruments in there) & Curratage (use a tool to scrape tissue out of the uterus).

Or popping a pill to expel a fetus, viable or otherwise. Mifeprestone then Misoprostol vs Methotrexate then Misoprostol. In both cases, the first drug stops development, and the second drug expels the fetus.

In all of these cases, you’re aborting the fetus. The context changes, the act is the same.

58
Janxreply
piefed.social

Wait until she learns about ectopic pregnancies...

EDIT: Never mind, that's what she had. I didn't read it...

10
sh.itjust.works

She had an ectopic pregnancy. That's why she needed an abortion, which she got (because it's okay when it's for me) but she's complaining about the fact that fear of prosecution under HER law made pharmacies unwilling (edit: I should have said "hesitant") to provide the necessary pills. It's the fact that it wasn't in her uterus that she's using to claim it "wasn't an abortion."

35
arrow74reply
lemmy.zip

She didn't get it "because it's okay when it's for me"

She got it because it is a life-threatening condition that Florida's anti-abortion laws do take into account, unlike some other states.

However, doctors are so afraid of the law she supported that before they act they are compelled to document as much as possible and test and test.

Additionally

and either (1) two physicians so certify this conclusion “in [their] reasonable medical judgment” in writing, or (2) a single physician certifies that the risks are “imminent” and “another physician is not available for consultation.”12 “Reasonable medical judgment” is defined as “a medical judgment that would be made by a reasonably prudent physician

If I were a physician I would almost always wait for the 2nd physician to sign off before allowing a Florida court judge me.

She got treatment exactly as prescribed by the law

https://abortiondefensenetwork.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/Florida.pdf

17
sh.itjust.works

What I meant was not that she was allowed to get it, of course the law was written to allow a bare minimum of protection for the life of the mother. And I have edited because I should have said hesitant rather than unwilling. They did give her the pills.

My point was that she chose not to die for her beliefs, but instead carved out a nonsensical mental exception for herself by denying that the abortion was an abortion. When push came to shove, she chose to have her fetus (embryo? I bet she lied about it only being 5 weeks) killed instead of letting it die naturally and probably kill her in the process.

Which, by the way, is the only sane decision and yet it's the one she denies.

11
arrow74reply
lemmy.zip

of course the law was written to allow a bare minimum of protection for the life of the mother

Yeah, I got some bad news about that.

https://www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/a-review-of-exceptions-in-state-abortions-bans-implications-for-the-provision-of-abortion-services/

Basically 6 states (Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Alabama, Idaho, South Dakota, and Wisconsin) have no provision to protect the health of the pregnant person. They only have provisions to protect the life of the mother. The issue is it's so poorly written in many states they have to wait until the mother is actively dying to act.

Ectopic pregnancies are deadly, eventually. They can stay in place for weeks without actually killing the woman. It's well documented that in many states women have been told to wait in the parking lot until the condition became severe enough that it was life threatening.

7

I'm well aware. It's so brutal that saying it's barbaric is unfair to barbarians. Fortunately for her, Florida wasn't on that list. In the terrible past, a woman could say "I'll kill myself if I have to continue this pregnancy," which would allow the doctor to act to save her life. In the more-terrible present, the draconian laws are written to prevent any such acts of humanity. The thumb is pushing so hard on the scale towards the "baby" rather than the woman (who has no value except as a mother) that the laws are indeed poorly written, on purpose.

3
Zephorahreply
discuss.online

Back in the day, your birth tally, as recorded for every childbearing woman, terminations were terminations. 3 miscarriages? 3 terminations. 3 abortions? 3 terminations. 2 miscarriages and one abortion? 3 terminations. That’s not political, that is the neutrality (ideally) of medicine.

Gravida: # of times pregnant Para: # of pregnancies that reached viable gestation, alive or not. Termination: # of losses previable

So this gal, if it was her only pregnancy, would be G1, P0, T1 by that system.

That’s when I was in school. I’m not in OB, but now they use GTPAL (you guys can look it up in total). I cannot find the year of the switch. But know older terminology may be referenced by some people.

The P is preterm. Births between 20-37wks, live or stillborn.

The A is abortion, and includes ALL losses before 20wks. Your body can self abort due to issues with the fetus. A lot of early miscarriages are like that, and, often happen on a toilet. GASP

By the newer GTPAL system, this gal would be (assuming this was her only pregnancy): G1, T0, P0, A1, L0

Note that A1 is Abortion: 1.

I feel no joy in this. For me, it simply is, but this gal will likely continue to see it as something else.

3
prolereply
lemmy.blahaj.zone

Yeah but all that sounds so complicated and it's easier to just say it's all the same and it's all "murder"

2

Yeah. Take the D&C. The D is for dilation (of the cervix), so the doctor can see into the uterus and use instruments. The C stands for the tool used to scrape stuff out of the uterus. Could be a miscarriage. Could be an abortion. Could be polyp removal (like a uterine version of a skin tag, but can cause bleeding). Obtain a sample from an irritated uterus to test for cancer. Post menopausal women get this procedure. Old ladies. Young ladies.

1
Catoblepasreply
lemmy.blahaj.zone

They’ve decided that if you’ll die if you don’t get it then it’s not an abortion, because abortions are elective. No, this is not a real medical distinction; It’s the same surgery.

25
tempestreply
lemmy.ca

You're close but it's actually

"They’ve decided that if I die if I don’t get it then it’s not an abortion, for everyone else it is an abortion"

Small distinction I know but it makes a world of difference.

You could likely actually trim it up a bit to a more simple

"If I get it, it's not an abortion"

48

Its religious fundamentalism, aka, structured and mandated persistent irrational delusions, anti-reality cult member behavior

When you realize these people just are a kind of insane that isn't recognized as a mental disorder because you can still work a wage slave job while having it... ... and because its broadly popular ... everything starts to make more sense.

America was founded by mostly a mixture of petty criminals and their descendants, and religious nutjobs, and their descendants.

... if you abandon the melting pot / tapestry of differences with a backbone of principles ... idea of America... you revert back to old habits and entrenched norms and material power structures.

19
lemmy.world

Another great example of why people who show no capacity for empathy should be shunned from society until they change. She cries about her own abortion, but how many women have already died before she decided to shed a tear for herself?

190
searabbitreply
piefed.social

Shunning people is by definition not an empathetic action, so your plan to increase the average empathy of society falls apart pretty much immediately. Ironically, building empathy requires the opposite of shunning.

-113
lemmy.world

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

Empathy is part of the social contract, and when someone violates that social contract they are no longer protected by it. Empathy for the unempathetic is exactly the same as tolerating the intolerant. It leads to the death of the very principle we are trying to espouse.

151
0opsreply
piefed.zip

Lmao, did you make that? I love that movie

3

If you don't make people realize they are stupid and shitty, they often remain shitty (even if you literally tell them). Shunning sometimes works, and if it doesn't affect them, then their children are less likely to behave the same way. Empathy works if all parties are open to change, which unfortunately isn't a guarantee.

40
lemmy.ca

"Make the logic sound with one weird exception trick" ?

-22

It's a core part of the logic. Not some exception. The logic doesn't work without it. If to be tolerant you must tolerate intolerance. Then there is no such thing as tolerance. Just apathy.

21

No one is trying to make these people feel empathy. The time to be taught that was childhood by loving, kind, emotionally available parents. That ship has long sailed. At this point we have to aim for shame and embarrassment if there is any hope to make those that are ok with these fucked up policies have an ounce of self reflection that might make them realize these shitty decisions affect them too. If they are going to be selfish cunts, we can at least educate them so they aren't dumb selfish cunts.

13

We do not have to coddle the intolerant, the violent, the liars and thieves. They are breaking the social contract but expecting to be protected by it still. They deserve neither succor or shelter from it.

12
lemmy.world

It's kind of impossible to have empathy for someone who doesn't have empathy. Once you try to put yourself in their shoes, that's you being empathetic and, as such, failing to put yourself in their shoes. It's like trying to "win" The Game, the act of trying to win causes you to lose.

Shunning, however, is absolutely an empathetic act when done to someone who society has deemed incompatible (which is very few people all told, most just need a hug), especially when considering all the other varied and violent methods humankind has developed for dealing with these sorts of issues over the millenia. Not only is shunning vastly more empathetic than torture, rape, dismemberment, etc., it's also more empathetic to society as a whole to have that person removed.

5
Syrcreply
lemmy.world

Personally disagree. Empathy doesn’t necessarily mean agreeing, it can also mean understanding why the other person is thinking like that, while still disagreeing with them.

Being clear, I agree that shunning is the correct path, but it’s not because “you can’t have empathy for people who lack it”, it’s exactly because you understand that if you don’t shun them, they’re never going to change. The utopic end goal is that people understand why they’re being shunned and start rethinking their choices. Of course, if they don’t and they want to keep being shunned that’s still a positive for society, but we should still hope for them to change. It’s sort of like the (stated, unfortunately not factual) purpose of prison.

1
lemmy.world

Yeah, I was referring to people who literally are incapable of empathy, the people you're talking about just need to learn to exercise it. That's what I meant by the parenthetical in my comment about how most people just need a hug.

2
Syrcreply
lemmy.world

I… don’t know how I missed that parentheses, sorry if I basically reiterated what you already said lol

In any case though, I still don’t believe in the existence of people physically incapable of empathy (well, outside of some mentally ill ones who lack more than just empathy), it’s just that some people are in a position where they’re never gonna realistically need to learn it in their entire lives.

1
lemmy.world

No worries, you definitely added another perspective! But yeah, those mentally ill ones are the ones I'm talking about. Like the president of the United States, I simply can't put myself in a place where I can truly understand his motives or what causes him to be the way that he is. The more I try, the less I want to. And this isn't to say all, or even most, mentally ill people should just be locked up or completely forced from society, but there does reach for a point for a very select few where rehabilitation and societal reintegration are simply impossible, and the most empathetic thing that can be done for everyone involved is to stop trying.

1

Eh, in all honesty I think Trump isn’t that far off from the mindset of most corrupt politicians around the world, he’s just more blatant, less smart and has WAY more power. If you try putting yourself in the mindset of “I benefit from doing this and I have a HUGE cult of people that like that I’m doing this”, it makes sense.

The only reason I think rehabilitation is not viable for him (besides, as I said, him being in a position where it’s impossible to make him face consequences), is because he’s really old and I don’t know if his brain is still capable of completely reshaping his thoughts. But I’m convinced that all the other “younger” terrible people (Musk, Tate, Shapiro and so on) could actually change if the whole world stopped giving them attention/praise and started saying “Hey, what you’re saying is fucked up and nobody likes you. We don’t want you in our society”. Of course, that’s a gigantic “if” because unfortunately they all have their own cult of people thinking they’re the messiah which constantly boosts their ego, but one can dream.

2

Sorry, all out of empathy for fascists who can't acknowledge their own faults.

1
Canacondareply
lemmy.ca

Stupid, piece of shit.

I'm done not pointing out the massive correlation between being evil and being a dumb mother fucker.

84
Talcosisreply
lemmy.zip

My only caution is to not always assume idiocy. You may underestimate evil.

Example: I consider myself a reasonably smart guy. I got the smart guy job and the smart guy degree. I also consider donald trump to be an incurious and generally incompetent moron.

But despite my smart guy credentials, and donald's obvious moronism...he convinced a third of the country to vote for him. That is a skill that I do not possess. That is a skill that very few possess.

11
Canacondareply
lemmy.ca

The Basic Laws of Human Stupidity

#1: Always and inevitably everyone underestimates the number of stupid individuals in circulation.

#2 - The probability that a certain person be stupid is independent of any other characteristic of that person.

#3: A stupid person is a person who causes losses to another person or to a group of persons while himself deriving no gain and even possibly incurring losses.

#4: Non-stupid people always underestimate the damaging power of stupid individuals. In particular non-stupid people constantly forget that at all times and places and under any circumstances to deal and/or associate with stupid people infallibly turns out to be a costly mistake

Law #5: A stupid person is the most dangerous type of person. A stupid person is more dangerous than a bandit.

9

Law #2 is at issue here. You and I would both probably outsmart a cat...until intelligence is measured by the ability to catch a rat.

5
feddit.online

According to Bonhoeffer, stupidity is a moral failing, not an intellectual one.

4
thelemmy.club

https://www.fisheaters.com/srpdf/Dietrich_Bonhoeffer-On_Stupidity.pdf

Interesting, I hadn't read that before. I do believe it is a moral failing too. Stupidity is cowardice. You pick one lane, one side, and then stick with it and stick your fingers in your ears to any contradictory evidence. Some people do this quite young and never change, and some people astoundingly start to do it in their 50s. That sort of mental rigidity makes no sense to me. We need to give these people a massive dose of shrooms and see if we can shake things up.

5
kbin.earth

He did not accomplish that by himself. The entire Republican party is responsible for that. The megadonors, the evangelicals, Fox News, the NRA, Facebook and Cambridge Analytica, internet trolls, manosphere podcasters, all the way down to the lifelong down-ballot voters.

The Donald Trump that Trump voters see is not the same one you and I see, because theirs is nearly entirely fabricated from lies and omissions. They see fake successes and don't see real failures. Trump's benefactors, not Trump, constructed this alternate reality. And those voters have been living in this constructed reality for over a decade now, conditioned to protect it against all outside forces.

You're right, it's not just the idiocy of the country that put him there, but the evil of the conservative machine.

3

The machine exists for everybody, donnie was the one that turned it to his benefit.

I also can't do that.

2

the only moral abortion is my abortion, its a common tactic for the gop. if a male gop gets a mistress pregnant, they quietly fly them to a abortion clinic secretely terminate the baby.

4
lemmy.zip

People who don't understand the inplications of their own actions and then blame others for their ignorance are getting tiring.

84
Sunflierreply
lemmy.world

Its the Democrats' fault for not warning us of the consequences of our own actions well enough.

-Republicans

60
lemmy.world

Oh remember when Senator McConnell blamed Obama for not warning he and his dumbass party for the obvious unintended consequences for passing the Justice Against Sponsors of Terrorism Act?

It's a proud Republican tradition of being fucking proud morons.

31

Yes, and if I remember correctly, this was after Obama had vetoed it and explained why!

13

When was the last time they listened to a democrat speaking?

2
Watabareply
sh.itjust.works

They sure love to blame the Dems for all the shit MAGA does.

8
lemmy.world

“WhY dO yOu SuPpOrT gEnOcIdE? “

They ask while they create a worse outcome…

-1

They ask as the orange pedo literally called 'yahoo telling him to ignore ceasefire negotiations with Biden, then outright says "I'll help him finish the job"...then orders an illegal war in Iran and bombs schools for funsies.

But yeah, it's the Dems who were gEnOcIdAl

2

Yeah, it's been over a century of that happening and things aren't getting better because those same idiots are in charge of education.

4

Especially when they take that infantile shit mentality to the ballot box.

2
lemmy.world

It’s an abortion until it’s MY abortion, then it’s life saving medical care.

78
Stevereply
startrek.website

If only politicians weren't the dumbest motherfuckers on the planet, they could have written the law to explicitly allow medically necessary lifesaving treatments. But noooooooooo

3
lemmy.world

“…even though what I went through wasn’t an abortion.”

Wait, so the baby was not…you know…’aborted’?

69
sh.itjust.works

Let's at least put quotemarks around "baby," which is not accurate, but acceptable usage here because it's what she would have called it while pushing for the 6-week limit. What she aborted was a fetus, as it would be for any woman.

20
lemmy.world

Well, that’s exactly the point a physician, a political leader or just about any other rational actor would’ve made. But extremists don’t care about dialogue. Or facts for that matter.

Kat, and others like her, are fundamentally broken people. People who never overcame their flawed personalities or poor upbringing. But who instead came to believe that their character flaws or poor life choices are actually commendable. And that their apparent failures are the result of being rejected or sabotaged by the ‘other’.

8

They only need food, water, shelter and feeling persecuted to survive.

5
lemmy.world

“It was absolute fearmongering at its worst. There will be some comments like, 'Well, thank God we have abortion services,' even though what I went through wasn't an abortion.'"

So it's all a branding issue?

Abortions for none, embryectomies and uterine evacuations for all who want one!

61
sp3ctr4lreply
lemmy.dbzer0.com

These people literally don't believe in reality so much as they believe in how you talk about it.

They all believe their specific reality is superior to anything else, facts, words, meaning be damned.

They're postmodernists who will tell you they hate post modernism, because they just pretend eords mean whatever they want them to.

11
lemmy.world

they just pretend eords mean whatever they want them to.

This is beautifully ironic. Please, do not correct the spelling of this. I think it helps make your point.

5

I don't use autocorrect because I refuse to entirely succumb to the machine. Also, on mobile... well, the default keyboard apps sure do send a lot of net traffic... I'm sure its nothing to worry about though.

2
lemmy.world

The idiots thought that 6 weeks is 6 weeks from the intercourse, so "plenty of time to discover it".

Instead it's 6 weeks from the last period, meaning in most cases, unless you were actively trying to get pregnant, when you discover that you're pregnant the 6 weeks are already passed or almost passed. You can't even know that the pregnancy is ectopic before 8 weeks, because at 6 weeks the embryo is so small that you can't see it with the ultrasound.

And in this case, an ectopic pregnancy, the embryo is planted in the wrong position, so there are only two outcomes:

  1. Surgical removal before the 8 week (technically a forbidden abortion)
  2. Do as God intended and do nothing (at the 10th week the embryo dies because can't grow and after weeks of extreme pain the mother dies of hemorrhaging and sepsis)

So, maybe if the mother at the 5th week and half was experiencing some weird pain in the belly, and had a good insurance that covered a transvaginal ultrasound, they could discover the problem and schedule the abortion before the deadline.

If the mother didn't have a good insurance, just thought "well maybe my belly pain it's just a temporary problem because I'm a week late with my period", when the doctors discover the problem they will say "sorry we discovered the problem 3 days too late according to the arbitrary deadline that the legislators decided, you have two painful weeks left and then you'll die"

60

...and had a good insurance that covered a transvaginal ultrasound...

Republicans: ... ... TRAAAAAAAAAAAANS?!

7
lemmy.world

Because of her ingrained belief system, brainwashed into her mind since childhood, she absolutely cannot face the fact/admit to herself that she actually had an abortion. Yes, it was objectively and truly an actual abortion.

Assuming that like most evangelicals her belief is that life begins at conception, to admit that she had an abortion would be to admit that she herself is what she accuses other women who have abortions to be: immoral sluts who murder children as their birth control method of choice. She would also have to acknowledge that by her actions she has caused immense pain and suffering, even death in some cases, to other women.

57
lemmy.world

to acknowledge that by her actions she has caused immense pain and suffering, even death in some cases, to other women

I mean... can't someone just, I dunno, take responsibility for their fuckup?

8
lemmy.today

have you ever heard of gop actually admitted wrong doing, no. that means to have contradictory beliefs.

5
lemmy.world

Generally, no. They refuse to acknowledge their mistakes and thus cannot grow, which is why they act like obstreperous children. An adult recognizes their share of a failure - a good citizen endeavors to do better (and not in a PR redemption arc kind of way). There are rare cases where people have managed, to varying degrees, to mentally unfuck themselves, including KKK members and gigaracist HP Lovecraft. This lady has no excuse and should hang from her entrails.

4

Lovecraft recanted a lot of his racist beliefs later in life. Oh, and also capitalism. Seriously. One of his letters mentions having read the Communist Manifesto and finding out he agrees with quite a few points that Marx fellow was making.

2
feddit.org

I wish just a slither of the pain and suffering she has caused others on her.

2

And like… you’d think that’s what this would be if she wasn’t too much of a fucking coward to examine her own beliefs.

2
lemmy.world

Republican: Starts a fire

Republican: sticks their hand in the fire and burns themselves

Republican: in their panic, they set their entire house on fire

Republican: "THE EVIL GODLESS DEMOCRATS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL THIS, GOD DAMN THOSE WOKE LIBERAL DEVILS!"

53
lemmy.world

"Blame the Democrats" works as a strategy because conservative Democrats will just mirror whatever a more-popular Republican is saying in order to win votes. That's how Al Gore fucked us all in 2000. That's how John Kerry fucked us all in 2004. That's how Hillary Clinton fucked us all in 2016 and Harris fucked us in 2024. Nevermind all the downticket races where some empty suit or partisan hack tries to run to the right by screaming "I hate liberals!" louder than the Republican in the race.

Florida is absolutely flush with "Pro-LIfe" Democrats. It's not uncommon to live in a blue county in a red state, where liberal municipal officials meticulously enforce fascist legislation on the grounds that they're powerless to do otherwise.

The end result is Republicans getting away with this bullshit by insisting "We don't oppose all abortions, just the wrong kind of abortions" and then pointing to the Democrats stuck with the drudgework of enforcing their shitty laws when it comes time to pass blame. Democrats could resist Republican legislation as fiercely as Republicans fight liberal laws in red states and districts. But if they're just the lackeys of reactionary state government, they're easy whipping boys.

10
Alkalireply
lemmy.ml

I'm not a Harris fan by any means, but what did she do to "fuck us?"

I mean, her stance on Israel and Palestine wasn't great, but it was massively better than Trump.

5
lemmy.world

what did she do to “fuck us?”

Three months campaigning with Liz Cheney, one of the least popular politicians in the country, just for starters.

5
Alkalireply
lemmy.ml

I mean... trying to win over moderate, independent, and anti-Trump Republican voters seems like a reasonable approach given the way the current voting system works.

If anything, it seems that Biden and the DNC fucked us by not having a primary. Biden should have committed to a one and done. She may have fucked us by accepting the nomination without a primary, but I honestly blame Biden for that far more.

I do agree that Kamala didn't help the situation all that much. But I still don't see how she really fucked us.

0
lemmy.world

trying to win over moderate, independent, and anti-Trump Republican voters seems like a reasonable approach

It consistently failed to win elections

3
Alkalireply
lemmy.ml

It was how Biden won his election, so... it has won elections. It was just a bad strategy for Harris.

0
lemmy.world

I mean… trying to win over moderate, independent, and anti-Trump Republican voters seems like a reasonable approach given the way the current voting system works.

How many elections must they fail to win before it finally becomes obvious that, no, it is not a reasonable approach.

And to really drive the point home, how much did Obama go to the right to win? Or how much did he run on actually trying to improve this fucked country?

2
Alkalireply
lemmy.ml

I'm a bit confused, are you saying Obama was not center left and occasionally right leaning? I would have sworn he relied on market-based solutions for healthcare, supported for free trade agreements, aggressively used executive military power and drone striked the shit out of the middle east, and the maintained many Bush-era tax rates. He even had a beer with a cop who arrested a black man trying to get into his own house as an "apology" for stating the cop acted stupidity (the cop did) during his first term. So, he went to the right during his actually presidency. Am I mis-remembering these things or something?

2

I'm clearly pointing out how Obama's campaign breaks your assertion that you have to go right to win, despite the Democrats losing every election this century when they tried to go to the right.

Obama explicitly campaigned to the left by advocating for policies to make thing better, hence that whole last bit. Whether his presidency veered more towards the right is immaterial to the point at hand.

Also, how much of your paragraph is related to the campaign and isn't just you trying to find any excuse why your a argument doesn't hold water? Because we're not talking about the presidency, that's you moving the goalposts. This is about the campaigns that were run (and lost!) by democratic candidates despite your incorrect assertion that campaigning right is necessary to win.

1
Maevereply
kbin.earth

And shutting down Palestinian voters, saying she'd stick to the Biden plan, not saying no more money, vetos, and weapons for genocide...

0
Alkalireply
lemmy.ml

Yes, letting the guy who actively supports the genocide win was a much better option. I'm sure she learned her lesson.

5

Well she's talking to Mamdani now. So maybe she has finally accepted that being anything other than full anti-Israel is a losing position.

1

They do it because it works. How often do you see a post where the comments make it clear that most people read the headline, but not the article? If enough people internalize the headline and pass it on socially, the message spreads like wildfire because 1) we are more inclined to believe news we have heard from known friends and 2) because the article with real information is separated from the conversation and probably difficult for the person to find.

We don’t live in a society based on facts anymore. It’s reactionary headlines playing a game of telephone

3
lemmy.world

Cammack blamed those delays not on the law itself but on what she described as …..

So she didn’t learn anything either

50

shes trying to mentally gymnastic her way out of justifying, she saying "its not what you guy think its actually true, but something else" its basically like lawyers saying " client has an OTHERWISE blameless life, after said climate commited a henious crime"

6
lemmy.ca

No, she's a liar.

Stop letting these people hide behing mental deficiency. They're not stupid, they're disposable trash and they choose to be.

55
lemmy.today

they think it dint affect them, or the legislation wasnt going to enforce it? republicans always assume the contrary when evidence points to the opposite. if its too good to be true, republicans believe it.

7
lemmy.ca

Republicans don’t have beliefs. They don’t have political positions. They pretend to believe whatever might need to be true to help them feel like they’re scoring a point against someone they hate. That is all. Pay attention.

8
lemmy.dbzer0.com

I hate republicans as much as the next non-republican, but one of the main problems we're facing is extreme polarisation and division. Straw-manning the other side like that isn't helping anyone except maybe your own ego.

They are real people who also want to live comfortably and be loved by their friends and family. They've just been brainwashed and haven't thought things through enough to brake free from it. So, they believe pretty much anything their cult tells them. It's horrible and it is stupid, but even smart people believe stupid things some times (even if it's less frequent).

We need to bring more humanity and cooperation into the world. Call out bad beliefs and behaviours instead of dehumanising the people.

0

How frequently do people have to scream out loud that they are hateful, bigoted, and entitled to everything at any cost of suffering for others, before you believe them?

15
matlagreply
sh.itjust.works

I can sometimes excuse a voter to be ignorant and misled, up to a certain point.

I have absolutely no mercy for a lawmaker whose job is to educate oneself and vote bills based on one's understanding and representing a political point of view.

Before such a law is passed, there are debates during which I am sure other lawmakers and health professional warned about its consequences. And even if there were not, it was still her damn' job to find such people and educate herself.

She is the first line of responsibility. She voted the bill. If she's a willful ignorant, then she's just fucking incompetent at her job, and she should be removed. Period.

12
lemmy.dbzer0.com

I'm not saying you should excuse anyone's bad behaviour. And that's a good point about people in power deserving to be held to higher standards. My point is more to take issue with the problematic behaviour specifically, without exaggerating or straw-manning.

The real way to convert people is to have a one on one discussion and find common ground first, seriously try to understand their side and motivations and then question it deeply. That can disarm them and actually get them to think about why they believe that stuff. Often people who hold stupid beliefs have never properly questioned them.

So, it doesn't really work in online forums. But, I firmly believe that spreading more hatred is just going to make things worse.

-3

The real way to convert people is to have a one on one discussion and find common ground first

It's impossible to have a discussion with someone who refuses to listen.

3
lemmy.ca

Oh absolutely fuck this right down to the balls. “Polarization” my ass- the rest of us have watched ONE group of people continually stab your country in the heart for thirty or forty years while accelerating their rhetoric and we’ve watched the rest of you sit there and accept every one of their transgressions as the new normal.

People like you and this absolutely clownish devotion to taking some imaginary high road so that maybe the fascists will come around one of these days? You are part of the problem and at this point just as deserving of blame than the MAGA garbage. Hell, taking your position would have been too conciliatory during the Bush era- in 2026 it’s beyond embarrassing. And this attitude is partly to blame for the fact that it’s now showing up on our doorsteps too.

“The firefighters aren’t doing a great job putting out the blaze but i’m operating on a higher plane here and I see that the real problem with those serial arsonists setting children’s hospitals on fire is the us-vs-them division between these two sides. I am burdened by my own decency.”

The alt-right is subhuman scum and there is no consequence they could suffer that they wouldn’t have coming to them.

10
lemmy.dbzer0.com

I completely understand why you would hate them so much, but when they feel that hatred directed towards them, it only makes things worse. I urge you to take a serious look at this channel which shows how people with fundamentally different views can find some common ground, under the right circumstances: https://www.youtube.com/@TheEnemiesProject/videos

The first video they did was a trans woman and a MAGA woman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQlarHFPoaM

They're obviously not going to completely convert anyone in a single discussion, but it shows how peoples minds can be opened up when you approach them with empathy and a real attempt to find common ground.

-4

If empathy worked on Conservatives they wouldn't be conservative. They're too stupid to have a conversation. They're too stupid to change their belief because their beliefs that trans people should die, people shouldn't have healthcare, people shouldn't make a living wage, they've made these destructive beliefs their entire personality. And changing that would basically become internal suicide to them.

5

which shows how people with fundamentally different views can find some common ground, under the right circumstances:

I don't find common ground with fascists. I avoid them or destroy them if necessary.

4

Nope. They treat "others" like absolute trash, as if we are nothing but scum under their shoe. I am not giving them any empathy. They don't deserve it.

6

They are real people who also want to live comfortably and be loved by their friends and family. They’ve just been brainwashed and haven’t thought things through enough to brake free from it. So, they believe pretty much anything their cult tells them. It’s horrible and it is stupid, but even smart people believe stupid things some times (even if it’s less frequent).

So fuck them. They're completely useless to a successful society. They can completely be left behind while the rest of us move on without them. No one needs anyone who cannot complete a basic complex thought. If you're too stupid to fucking breathe why should I care about you contributing anything to society?

3

They are trying to go back to a system where the rules are universal but selectively enforced against people they consider to be "other." Their shock and confusion is when the rules they create also apply to them.

They can't comprehend a world where laws are applied equally. In this situation, she is arguing that the law was only applied equally because the "left" spread information that the law would need to be applied equally, and would have negative consequences for everyone.

Basically, she wanted white privilege and got the oppression she was trying to force on others.

7

She's mentally ill. All conservatives/regressives are. It's why they support a felon rapist pedophile over their own wellbeing and the wellbeing of their nation.

6

She failed to realize to pro life whom she supported, women are not people but just breeders to produce more children.

4

These people are some of the dumbest people that exist. They have to be, to be this unaware intentionally takes so much brain power.

44
lemmy.world

"I didn't think the leopards would eat MY face" Says the supporter of the "Face Eating Leopards" party.

43
lemdro.id

"I didn't think the leopards would eat MY face" Says the CHAMPION of the "Face Eating Leopards" party.

7

"I didnt think the leopards would eat MY face" says the person who removed the gates and actively held people down so leopards could eat their faces

4
Sunflierreply
lemmy.world

She certainly seems to have been willing to see other women suffer that fate.

49

Dying of an ectopic pregnancy to own the libs, at least we could respect the consistency.

21

The cowards downvoting that comment would be perfectly okay with some poor black woman dying. But she's white so she should get to live.

4

even though what I went through wasn’t an abortion

It definitely was. Even the Catholics will agree it was an abortion. So now both sides hate you.

34
feddit.org

They really are just that fucking dumb. A country ruled by idiots. How is reality so much worse than Idiocracy?

34

For the aliens watching, it’s probably better. Especially when you consider that this same society created and embraced the original Idiocracy movie, laughing and pointing at its ludicrous hyperbole. They’ve gotta be loving it.

10

The aliens probably set up a quarantine zone and will pick off any manned ships trying to reach another star system. Leave us to fuck up our own planet, not spread like parasites to theirs

2

I'm down voting for the word "Slammed." If it turns out she was really picked up, and dropped over a knee, I'll remove it.

33
lemmy.world

It is amazing how terminally dumb people can be and still get elected.

33
adarzareply
lemmy.ca

they win the dumb-as-fuck vote. and thanks to the decades-old war against public education waged by republicants, there's more and more of them every day.

16
Treczoksreply
lemmy.world

They can't wait for the day when all this home "schooling" and anti-science rhethoric sets the US back into the "good old times" where women dealt with kids and kitchen, and black people were slaves.

3

This isn't an exaggeration, this is what The Heritage Foundation explicitly wants.

And so far they've gotten almost everything they've wanted.

3

I prefer republicunts, but yours works too

1

When you demonize people that don't look or think like you, there's a safety in the "known" evil.

Soon, you don't see people from other races as people but you see the humanity in the evils perpetrated by people who do look like you.

Do that with the social media bubbles you have now that constantly reinforce these biases and we have the shitty fucking situation where rich people leverage to get themselves elected. Soon they're going to remove the voting entirely.

3
sopuli.xyz

In a follow-up interview with Palmeri, Cammack said her experience brought her "down a path of understanding...

Yep. Sounds legit.

32
filcukreply
feddit.uk

Empathy? Never heard of it
These people

15
discuss.online

This seems to be the playbook, every time. Magas blame medical staff, not the laws.

Licensing is rigorous and as a medical professional, you’re allowed 1 license a lifetime. A doctor spends 12yrs of their life becoming a doctor, goes $200k+ in debt to get there, and these MAGAs talk like they expect doctors to interpret law instead of medicine.

The law says no, so either the doctor doesn’t do it, or they leave the state and practice in one that allows them to make medical decisions for their patients instead of a lawyer with religion sitting in public office.

Let’s not forget the doctor that was publically threatened for legally performing an abortion on a child of 13yrs who had been raped and impregnated by her rapist. The child was from a state where abortion was illegal.

32

She also acts like the “fear mongering” from medical staff had no basis in reality when there have been women denied medical treatment and forced to let sepsis set in while waiting in the parking lot or teenagers getting arrested for having miscarriages and not knowing what they’re supposed to do.

She also acts as if the laws weren’t written explicitly in defiance of established medical opinion (and biblical opinion for that matter).

4
lemmy.world

“It was absolute fearmongering at its worst. There will be some comments like, ‘Well, thank God we have abortion services,’ even though what I went through wasn’t an abortion.'"

'My abortion is different and special'

28
lemmy.world

I'm sure you know this, but for anyone thinking this is an exaggeration, Joyce Arthur gathered stories of them telling providers just that almost 30 years ago in the article '“The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion”' from doctors in the US and a couple other countries, including picketers that come back the day after their abortion to picket the clinic.

It's in rare cases like this that I wish a doctor could call a patient out on their shit publicly, but I understand that HIPPA privacy is much more important than calling out these fakers

5
lemmy.world

Oh sorry if my post wasn’t clear, this article is exactly what I was referring to. Every woman should have the right to choose what happens to their own bodies.

3
lemmy.world

I assumed it was, I just wanted to make it obvious for anyone who hadn't come across that article and might have thought you were just being cheeky

1

Downside: She learned nothing.

Upside: She failed to reproduce.

2

Fucking gutter scum.

The sooner we rid ourselves of the conservative/regressive cancer killing our society, the sooner our quality of life improves.

28

"Misleading messaging" i.e. saying that the law prevents things like this instead of just straight-up shooting a toddler in the face, which is what most Republicans seem to think abortion is. Rot, bitch.

27

Actually, scratch that... that's exactly how we got into this mess.

11

No. I don't think I will. I find them too revolting to engage in intimacy with them.

9

Speaking of which, some poor scabby bastard banged her? Jesus. They're all desperate in their own way, aren't they.

9

I wonder what her world smells like, ya know, with her head up her ass and all

23
Treczoksreply
lemmy.world

No baby. It was an ectopic pregnancy. They were so anti-abortion that they basically made any medical procedure in that direction illegal, ignoring any medical input.

An ectopic pregnancy is a pregnancy happening outside the uterus, and the only way to save the mother is to remove the embryo. Such a "pregnancy" never leads to a baby being born if left alone. It's basically abortion or both die. And those idiots went big ways to make this procedure illegal. Any doctor confronted with such a diagnosis has the option to let the mother die or go to prison.

Shit like that happens when the education system is so anti-science that actual scientific input to a discussion is simply ignored as being too "sciency". We are talking about the country where they once legally defined the value of the number PI as four...

25

I know, it was intended to be a dark joke but appreciate the details for anyone else that might be reading.

8

Whoa, do her constituents know she is a radicalized abortionist! /s

Gods Will has been violated!!!

20

She's blaming them for correctly detailing the repercussions of the law she voted for.

They should be blamed for choosing to protect the filibuster over Roe.

19
lemmy.ca

Someone abort this idiot.

14
lemmy.world

They tried… her mom had a drinking problem and became pregnant with her when she was just a teen. Then after suffering a stroke her mom was advised by doctors and family to abort the pregnancy due to the health risks posed to mother and child.

Her mom offcourse ignored the adults in the room and the US was then blessed with Kat, who proudly presents her redneck origin tale when explaining why she feels woman and children should be made to suffer.

8

I hope the fact that, in her mind, she just did that to another future Kat is enough to drive her into a deep, dark depression.

1

Also Roe v wade was overturn on the bases that women have no right to privacy when seeing the doctor. The main argument was no one should know what you and your doctor decided is best for you. But Republicans want a Priest to look at CT scan along side the DA and doctor just to make sure no women is getting an abortion.

4

Fuck that stupid cunt.

Actually, don't do that, she obviously doesn't understand how anything works.

11

And did she learn anything from the experience?

She’s MAGA. So vanishingly unlikely.

9

Oh no, a few hours delay while they verified that they weren't going to break Florida's draconian laws and face criminal prosecution. You should celebrate, the law is working as designed!

9
lemmy.zip

Sometimes I think being too stupid should be punishable by law.

1
Sunflierreply
lemmy.world

While I get the sentiment, mental retardation was targeted by the Nazis. Given the current situation and the government's propensity for Nazism, I am disinclined to support that sentiment.

3

Stupid is curable, these dumbfucks are willfully stupid, those with intellectual disabilities are unfortunately lacking that option quite often.

3

i forgot which politician, but when an older gop on camera(my abortion was murder, but she still had it and support antiabortion)

1
lemmy.ca

Again I say, the bottom 1/5 of the population's idiots shouldn't get to vote, I in no way believe we couldn't make a comprehensive intelligence and decision making ability test using international standards to prevent minority group targeting and peroperly sort out the stupids from everyone else, give those that get left out of voting a large ubi (20k pegged to inflation) but not enough to really live on and penalize willful joblessness if they're young with fines.

The big ubi is there so they'll be represented as well as anchor the non-voting block and preventing it from growing so nobody can cry about a slippery slope, these people can instead can act as or strongest consumer and creatives, build business and futures.

(I don't want them rounded up into camps or anything, I just want them out of federal decision making, they can do other things to make society a better place and make they're mark.)

Cap assets owned in Canada to 5 - 10 billion (pegged to inflation) with a 90% tax rate if you touch this level by the end of the year. And maybe tax v smart individuals a bit more due to there natural advantage (only a bit like an extra 5%-10% and not if your broke) finally, if the rich want more they have to push the nations development if they ever want that total asset cap raised.

-12
JoeBigelowreply
lemmy.ca

You can't do a little eugenics without risking Full Blown Eugenics, unfortunately or not.

14
PhoenixDogreply
lemmy.world

I'm totally for a basic civics test in order to vote. You should understand what you're voting for and what it means and why.

2
Smailereply
lemmy.ca

even if it was just this, i'd be happy.

0
Smailereply
lemmy.ca

And it was easy to decern this and instead of making a proper federally recognised standard you threw the baby out with the bath water and again, I'm seeing people here liking literal death threats to the person this post was originally about, is that better then having a civics test, you people act like you both have all the power and none of it at the same time.

0
Maevereply
kbin.earth

Yeah, yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could that they didn't stop to think if they should.

1

Can you do anything other then quote other people? What you just posted has nothing to do with that I said.

0
Smailereply
lemmy.ca

You fundamentally don't know what eugenics is, I'm not trying to breed anybody and I'm not trying to get rid of anybody. This is what a real meritocracy looks like.

-6
Smailereply
lemmy.ca

Me pointing out your wrong about a term is me being an Asshole? Really now. It sounds more like I struck a nerve in some self-contious people and theyre looking for a fight like you are right now.

-3
Smailereply
lemmy.ca

Maybe but it's rude to throw that in people's faces, I'm not saying I'm a genius or anything either btw, (edit) I understand people want to be nice but I'm tired of people crying about stuff like this, I'm seeing people in this vary page wish death upon this person here in the picture, getting mad likes but me saying maybe we shouldn't let them vote and suddenly everyone's throwing a hissy fit, it's hypocrisy, they act like I'm adalf trying to start the forth reich when I suggest maybe they should focus on themselves and not on governmental decisions that effect everyone. They're still being represented so I fail to see the issue and people are providing 0 counter arguments asside from the one person above who was just straight up just being factually wrong and attacking my character.

-1
zbyte64reply
awful.systems

I'm convinced most Americans don't believe in democracy, not just our leaders. Exhibit A:

4
Smailereply
lemmy.ca

A. Not an American

B. how is still letting 80% of the population vote not majoritvely democratic,

and C. Your right, I think in a full democracy people are way to easily swayed by emotions and lies. By cutting out some of the more easily manipulated and giving them diff social dutys, I believe this with be mitigated better.

D. A good number of people on this page are liking death threats to the person this is about. But I'm the bad guy for suggesting people who are measurably dumb shouldn't vote, yah ok buddy.

E. It's not like they have family or friend that wouldn't still support and appreciate them or anything, are you saying I'm somehow preventing that from happening?

-1
zbyte64reply
awful.systems

I did not attach judgement to the observation. But thank you for sharing

1
Smailereply
lemmy.ca

Sure, I'm apparently just an example of why a country's people secretly hate democracy, deff not attaching judgement to anyone making that statement. at least when the others tried to attack me they didn't try to lamely cop-out when i corrected them in the end 🙄

-1
zbyte64reply
awful.systems

I must have missed the part where you corrected me (at least beyond not being an American). If anything it sounded like you were offering more evidence. You can attack me for saying the quiet part out loud, however it doesn't diminish what's being said.

2
Smailereply
lemmy.ca

"Nuh uh, I won't explain anything" yah later.

0

If you want me to explain something then just ask. And no, I don't think you having an opinion that democracy has it's limits is preventing families or friends from acting differently.

2
Syrcreply
lemmy.world

I in no way believe we couldn’t make a comprehensive intelligence and decision making ability test using international standards to prevent minority group targeting and peroperly sort out the stupids from everyone else

I do believe that. Especially since whatever organization you task with that can still be bribed or manipulated.

I’m personally partial to a different, more objective mechanism: we already restrict voting and eligibility for office for people that are too young, don’t we? Let’s do that for people that are too old too. Take the life expectancy of a country and anyone that’s beyond that can’t vote or hold office. You’ve already done enough to shape the country, now leave it to people that might actually get to keep living in it.

3
Smailereply
lemmy.ca

Yes but this is harder to do and can be tracked, that and the substance of the test would also make it obvious if a group was being targeted

-1
Syrcreply
lemmy.world

I’m not really confident in what can or cannot be tracked considering there was an island where most of the world’s elites were flying to have sex with little girls and we started having the smallest idea after like 10 years.

The fact that it would be obvious wouldn’t really matter either: first, reality itself has already been denied plenty of times (see the above “my abortion wasn’t an abortion”), and second, even if we all agreed that a group was being targeted… what of it? Would anyone be able to do anything about it? We have a huge list of people who have 100% been on Epstein’s island and therefore at minimum knew what was going on. How many suffered consequences? Is anyone arresting or prosecuting them yet?

Sorry if this comes off as defeatist but recent years really made me lose most of the little faith I had in law and common sense. It feels like people in power WILL exploit any tool you give them for personal benefit and there’s gonna be nothing to stop them.

3
Smailereply
lemmy.ca

Well I mean you would be able to tell if a test was flagging one specific group in the same way most people can tell that an iq test is actually reading a person's pandern recognizing ability under time pressure, many would still notice the discrepancy unlike the island of pedo that were specifically hiding from everyone to avoid scrutiny.

Oh and people from epstine's Island have faced justice, outside of the USA and isreal....

And no no, your not wrong to be skeptical, I mean look at how many people came out of the wood work to attack me rather then actually engage with the question, what matters is transparency and people's willingness to hold people accountable.

This is all obviously not going to happen, if I believed this would actually work I wouldn't be here right now talking about it on this messaging board, I'd be attempting to talk to politicians and the rich but we both know those 2 group depend on these systems to hold power and they'd never Willingly let it happen because it would screw them.

0

Oh and people from epstine’s Island have faced justice, outside of the USA and isreal…

Eh, the only one that comes to mind is Prince Andrew, apparently Peter Mandelson too but I just found out. Every other person on the list has barely been questioned to my knowledge, and while most of them are American, it’s not all of them.

In any case, it’s just an example of how, even given clear evidence of “something being wrong”, the law ultimately does nothing to most of the perpetrators. And it happens with the police, with giant corporations, with world politicians… I just don’t think anything would actually be done even if it was apparent that the test was discriminatory.

And then of course, as you said, I don’t think this can realistically happen either with our current landscape, we’re just “whatif”-ing on the internet and that’s fine.

3