I would say that small talk is when you ask questions you don't actually care to know the answers to, just to fill the silence. "Did you catch the game last night?" is small talk if I'm talking to my coworker whose name I don't even remember, but it's not small talk when I'm talking to my friend who I know has been invested in the season, and whose opinion I actually want to know.
It's small talk both times, you just don't like forced conversation with your coworker. And that's fine, but they're both small talk. And no, I strongly disagree that it's defined as answers you don't care about the answer to. Many people who describe themselves as enjoying small talk do care about the answers, or else they wouldn't be asking them or they'd be asking something else.
I don't know why people have defined small talk as some exclusively negative thing. It'd be like someone saying riding a bike isn't exercising because it's fun.
I don't believe that small talk must be exclusively negative just because you don't care about the answers. I don't think anyone can honestly claim that people ask things like "crazy weather we're having, huh?" because they genuinely want to know if you agree about the weather. They just like talking. They like hearing themselves and others make noise. Nothing wrong with that, but I think it's telling when the people I know who enjoy small talk rarely remember the things I said last time we engaged in small talk - they don't care about the answers, so they don't remember them. Again, nothing wrong with just enjoying passing the time with meaningless chatter, but I certainly believe that it is indeed the meaninglessness that defines whether it's small talk or not.
I didn’t say anything about not liking either of these. The two scenarios are qualitatively different. The purpose of the one at home is to learn what happened that day, how the other person feels about it, planning what we do with the rest of our day, and so on. It’s an exchange of information.
The purpose of asking the cashier about their day is not to actually learn what happened with them (unless you actually know the person of course). It is exchanging pleasantries or just making banter, without the intent of exchanging any information that matters to the other person. I don’t dislike it. But it’s not a conversation, it’s small talk.
I read your top level comment as well and you do seem really irked that some people differentiate small talk from conversation. It seems like you’re fighting windmills though, and it’s in fact you who for some reason has strong feelings about the topic.
Small talk is an important part of interpersonal communication, and it’s good when it creates a sense of comfort, belonging, or serves as the prelude for a deeper conversation. But it can be annoying if it’s self serving, because either it fails creating any positive feelings, or it never gets past the warmup phase. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with people who don’t enjoy small talk, or with those who do.
I guess my gripe is the examples people give, like if you really don't care, why ask? And I don't mean the standard "hi how are you fine thanks you fine" dance, I mean why ask a cashier how their day is going if you don't care? If you want to talk to them, why wouldn't you ask them something you actually do care about? There are plenty of ways to conversate, break ice, fill a silence (if people feel so obligated) that don't involve asking questions that they don't care about, so why ask the ones they don't care about and then complain about the process? "Omg, I asked the cashier about the weather, but I hate talking about the weather and it sucked." Then ask about something you do want to talk about if you want to talk? It's not like it's impossible.
There's a clear issue in how people define the phrase, and it's easy to understand why when I look up the definition and the Merriam-Webster defines it as "light or casual conversation" with the synonym of "chitchat" but the Cambridge dictionary specifically says that it's "conversations about things that are not important, often between people who do not know each other well."
Those are two very distinct views on the concept (with the second having a rather...negative connotation to it, in my opinion), and I think it gets even further muddled by one very simple thing that I think is the real root of the argument: whether someone is an introvert or an extrovert. And I'm not talking about the "introvert=shy" that has pervaded common culture, but the actual psychological definition of the two which is about how people use and recharge mental/emotional energy. Extroverts are energized by social interaction, regardless of whether they're shy or not, while introverts are exhausted by it. So introverts naturally have a more transactional relationship with social interaction because they have to. If they didn't, they'd emotionally and mentally burn out. So to an introvert, any social interaction has to be weighed against how much mental and emotional energy they're willing to invest into it, and cultural formalities with people you don't know or care about to simply fill periods of silence with human noise would therefore fall very far down the list of things that they want to do. Whereas an extrovert, for whom basically any conversation could be like water to a parched plant, would delight at pretty much any chance to engage any random person.
So what we really have in this thread is introverts saying that they'd rather spend their limited daily emotional labor on the people they love than random strangers and extroverts mystified by the concept that anybody would balk at the opportunity for stimulating conversation.
I'll muddy the waters further by saying I'm an introvert (and not in the shy way, the same way you describe it) but still define it as light conversation, not unimportant conversation I don't care about the answers to.
That helps explain why it feels divided though, thanks for sharing the actual definitions.
People who don't know each other well almost exclusively talk about things that don't matter, I don't see how that's negative at all. Also this whole introvert/extrovert dichotomy is a massive oversimplification of how people behave and interact. I legitimately don't fit in either of your descriptions, so I know for a fact they don't cover all the bases. As far as I can tell, I'm just a vert. I lose energy by expending it and I gain energy by comsuming it. Also sleep and sunlight help.
These thoughts rattling around in my head and this breath in my lungs would be wasted forever unless I combine them and thrust it upon your unwilling ears
Not always true and a little besides the point. I went through a period where my friend circle ONLY made small talk. Hang out for a couple hours at a bar, 90% no talking and when we did it was either to insult each other or talk about our beers.
It became exhausting. Unsurprisingly we went our separate ways and never contacted each other again.
That's what normies don't get about introverts: we're not above small talk, we're above small talk when it's all there is. Of course we'll ask the loved one how their day has been, and the fact is we'll actually shut the fuck up and listen to it all, and when things become serious we'll talk to say meaningful things.
Else, there's folie à deux echolalia, shitty jokes, movie lines, comfortable silence, or skipping it all to 'scorching hot sex'.
I'm all for small talk. It's the superfluous small talk just to kill dead air I hate. I'd rather sit in an elevator and say nothing than talk about how much rain we're about to get this afternoon.
Yeah, I mean don't ask me how I'm doing if you don't want to hear the answer. Don't look at me weird when I say "not great" if you're the one who asked!
I'm not obliged to say "Great, thanks!" when you ask me how I am. I'm not doing great, and I'm not gonna lie about it just to make you feel better about a question that you asked!
That's what I mean when I say I hate smalltalk. It's so insincere, and exhausting to carry on day-to-day with no deeper conversation.
Me and my gf are the same. If course we have lots of meaningful and not so meaningful conversations. But we can also spend days barely talking, just doing our own thing. But together. I love it!
I don't mind having a conversation about stupid bullshit, I love those. But I do hate having a superficial conversation filled with lies and obfuscation about meaningless topics neither of us care about solely for the sake of filling the silence. It's a waste of energy and time.
I think you have to be pretty open to new things for this to be true, a lot of people will shut down and think certain topics are boring, art for example. You kind of have to force yourself to find those things interesting for a while before everything seems interesting.
I don't know my experience is everything is interesting if someone is passionate about it. It's mostly my fault when I'm only waiting for my turn to talk. (Mostly the reason is I'm forgetful and if I think I have something good to add I'm afraid I'll forget it)
I think it's sort of a two-way street, people feel a lot more passionate sharing something if the other person shows real interest in it. Being the person who makes them want to talk about it is more a skill I had to learn :p
I'm in the "no small talk" camp. I at least try to not be a cunt at first. But I have no problems firing back.
I imagine many people in the group though just really don't want to be bothered and being sharp with someone is usually a fast way to end that bother. They may not be cunts on the regular, they may just not want to be involved with the other person.
I agree that the other person was being cunty though. That condescending "sweet summer w/e" shit is rude af unless it's done to be silly.
No, they're introverts and therefore have to weigh every social interaction with how much of their emotional labor/mental energy they want to spend on it.
Think of it this way: as an introvert, you start the day with 10 spoons. Every time you talk to someone, you lose a spoon. How many spoons are you willing to give up to Frank and his play by play on what your other coworker is doing right now (you know, the coworker that's also sitting next to you both)? Maybe you'd rather use those spoons on playing with your kids.
In this nonsense scenario, extroverts start the day with 0 spoons but generate a spoon whenever they socially interact because extroverts regain emotional/mental energy through social interaction. In theory, you could game the system by having two extroverts talk to each other every moment of the day to create infinite spoons and start your own silverware company.
Firstly, that sounds great. Secondly small talk is meaningless filler, not common topics, so asking common things is not small talk as long as I actually care and participate in the conversion (like "how are you?" Or "how was your day?" Or even "interesting weather today")
It can also be foreplay for a deep conversation - you stroke and give little kisses in the form of familiar phrases (how are you? Work has been tough this week), then you start sliding hands a little under their clothes in the form of asking broad questions about the things people like to talk about (I love my cat, do you have any pets?), and then you work up to third base by finding something really interesting you both want to talk about (so, then they found ten other subspecies of deep-sea pseudoplancton, and two of those make a chemical that can induce hallucinations ...).
Then afterwards, a nice snuggle of small talk again before heading back home (well, I hope Billy is feeling better by next week, let me know what restaurant you'd like to go to and I can drag Bobby along too)
Talking random bullshit with someone you know well is great, performative socially masked pleasantries specifically chosen for their generality, and uncontroversial nature is immensely draining emotionally and mentally.
Dragging my tongue over ice-cold saccharine cream tainted by biter cacao seeds as grainy bits of sand dig into my exposed flesh and the roar of the ocean assaults my tender eardrums.
I don't count being polite in public small talk, I mean things like being at a party where you don't know anybody, work events, ceremonial events, those kinds of small, short hells.
It's really hard for me to meet people when it's like "what do you do" and I answer and they say "how is that" and I answer and then they ask where I'm from and then say it's rainy.
I don't think people hate small talk so much as they hate it when people are bad at small talk. A lot of awkward people will barrage you with questions and you don't even get the opportunity to ask them the question back because they just keep peppering you.
It’s necessary, but discussing the big important things don’t take up very much time in a long term relationship. There’s a lot more small talk that happens, so best to be on the same page about both with your partner!
The more I read into this thread, the more I appreciate being German. I don't talk to the cashier besides smiling at them and saying hello and goodbye and they don't expect me to. I only talk to people I want to talk to, besides at work. But even there I keep it low.
It's not that I don't like to talk. I just prefer to talk with a meaning.
You might like New Jersey to then. "How you doing" is about the extent of it. I can see people I know while out for a run, walk, grocery, whatever, and you're only getting a how you doing unless there's something important we need to discuss. Neighbors, you get a smile and a wave. I'm not striking up a conversation just to strike up a conversation, and that's how most of us are.
At the same time, we can plan to get together and then do get-together stuff, including those meaningless or meaningful conversations.
I hope you don't get me wrong. Ten years ago I might have thought about that. But in the meantime, the USA have removed themselves from the list of countries I want to visit for the foreseeable future and probably beyond. And even 10 years ago, I wasn't really eager to visit.
I understand why you're saying it. There isn't really a place that's representative of the US as a whole, and NJ certainly doesn't represent the qualities that you're presumably trying to avoid. But the internet paints this picture that definitely looks bleak, so I can appreciate your sentiment.
It's not that I fear for myself. I am aware that I, as a white German dude, will probably be fine in the US. It's more of a statement I want to express. You, the US of A, won't see a cent from me as long as I can prevent it. I've cancelled my subscriptions. If it's made in the USA it's not made for me, etc. And I'm making sure my government knows what I think about playing nice with the beast.
I know there are great people in the USA and I'm sure you are one of them. But your country turned to shit.
Hey, you won't find me disagreeing. I try to stay local, small businesses, all of that. It has been a disappointing decade for sure, but I'm not going to lose hope.
That's how the vast majority of people here are. Say hi to the cashier, maybe chat with them a second if you've seen them a few times, then move about your day. People don't randomly have an hour long conversations.
There was an interesting theory in a paper: during happiness research they interview people and ask them to imagine what the best life would look like and then estimate where they are compared to it in a scale of 0 to 10.
Well, in Finnish comprehensive schools we use grading 4-10 where 4 is "failed", so everything under 7 is bad and 8 is merely "ok". And as we learn this odd scale quite early it's stuck in our heads. So yeah.
I don't know any Finnish person that would describe their life as happy. Perhaps we mean to grade our life as merely tolerable when asked and the scale doesn't take into account this weird system that we use!
My husband and I absolutely do discuss free will and other philosophical questions. Being able to have those conversations is what drew us together.
Some people talk about the weather or their local sports squadrons. We would rather discuss the ethical implications of modern technology or the nature of knowledge or art.
Every woman I've dated since high school has been taller and more autistic than the last. If my wife ever leaves me, I'll need to find a non-verbal WNBA star.
I hate small talk, vehemently opposed to it... been married over 15 years...
When it is someone you truly love and cherish... even the most mundane things come with a sense of beauty and wonder, because it's them. Their thoughts, their opinions, their take on whatever applies the meaning. My wife and I can talk about the rain and the trees and the bugs and the birds for hours, for no other reason than it gives us a chance to be together.
Looking at it the way the post does... you're missing the forest because of all the trees.
I love the talks with my life partner about the inner depth of the universe and the emptiness beyond. I hate when he doesn't listen to me about something that I know is a good insight. I also hate when he outright shows coldness. I do that sometimes. I understand we are so good for each other for we are good archetypes that fit together. He doesn't do small talk sometimes, and he lies about the stupidest things to cut small talk to nothing. But I love him. He's special, and I'm just happy someone understands my crazy so well.
We either have free will or we have the illusion of free will so convincing and persistent that no meaningful distinction can be drawn and we must continue to act as if we have free will.
“I am home” is not small talk but a declaration, you inform anyone else currently in the home that you specifically (and not a burglar) are now present.
Hearing what happened at my gf's office shows that I'm interested in what she's doing. Her telling me about her coworker who had a health scare means she cares about the people around her in that office. Her asking how my baseball game went means she cares that I did well, or I had fun playing the game.
Life isn't a bunch of yes/no/maybe computer prompts from an RPG. That sounds like a miserable way to live to be honest.
I thought so about myself too, until i realise i hate small talk because most of the time it's about topic idgaf or with people i don't want to interact with or when i'm supposed to focus.
Okay, so here's the thing. My wife and I have been doing this to each other for nearly 20 years. She's a philosophy major. I'm a math major. This was probably one of our first big arguments. Any time either one of us stumble on a proof or a study or a tangential bit of theory or semi-relevant meme, we will immediately reignite the struggle session over free-will for the rest of the week.
"Hey babe! I already ordered delivery. Let's fuck~"
if this matches your idea of destressing after a long day, and you're a furry, 📮🥺
E: and before the inevitable 'but what do you do after the sex?' - well you see, you eat, and then have more sex. Then maybe a shower before bed. Possibly involving sex.
In my experience, you need to step out of the flow of water usually, otherwise most complain. I don't mind it myself, and I pre like a faucet so I can get jerked off right under the flow of water and it makes no difference.
the best kind of relationship is the one where you can be silent together and you don't have to talk about trivial crap.
it blows my mind how much trivial miserable nonsense makes up most folks conversations, and how obsessed they are with other folks... and 100% they would be RIPSHIT if someone else talked about them the way they talked about the person they are gossiping about...
I used to have an ex who would viciously gossip about her friends/co-workers intimate details to me, and I asked her once what she would think if they did that about her. She got so angry at the thought... least to say we broke up pretty soon afterwards.
And I was a lot happier without her going on for hours about Lydia's boyfriend's crack addiction and his limp dick, etc.
I just like keeping it real. I genuinely don't care about your day and I won't pretend like I do in order to fill the "awkward" silence. If I'm interested enough to talk to you, then it isn't small talk
My wife thinks that determinism causes you to 'give up' so you don't fight against injustice. I, being a determinist, am obviously annoyed by this characterization. I would say that I am just as enthused to do things; I just wouldn't attribute the enthusiasm to some mystical will that conjures it from nothing.
I'm utterly convinced that nobody actually dislikes small talk, they just redefine it to something different in their minds or imagine it was unenjoyable by definition. It's so common that you'll see people say they dislike small talk and the say something like "meaningless conversation with people they don't like." As if "liking small talk" somehow means you have to like it with everyone, which is something nobody has ever seriously said. It's just that small talk comes up in the context of strangers because generally those topics are more permissable with people you don't know (as opposed to big talk topics like "do you think free will exists").
Also I think a lot of people who claim they dislike small talk view the topics as exclusively things they dislike. As if it can only be about the weather and sports or something. Which, again, is not something anyone has ever said seriously.
It just feels very performative I guess? I'm not sure why it irks me I guess. Like they'll say "I hate small talk" then talk about a video game they've been enjoying with their friends. Like, what the hell do you think you're doing if not small talk? Talking about recent media you've enjoyed is small talk.
fucking hate it. I'm here for the real depth of humanity, or to transmit and receive infodumping.
The rest of it is exhausting. Imagine if you had to manually discard every piece of meaningless information you had to listen to in small talk. I have to do that. It's annoying at the very least, and when you have to be in the room with people who LOVE small talk it's a nightmare.
But why do you think that you can't talk about things that interest you as small talk? Sharing interesting facts about stuff is absolutely small talk! You're saying you don't want to small talk, you want to info dump, but those aren't mutually exclusive!
I am capable talking about whatever you define as small talk, but its not enjoyable for either of us if I do. Like I said, I'm there for real problems or philosophical musings for deep issues of life.. and the infodump process is enjoyable for me, but that is NOT small talk.
I really am not interested in finding a third way to express this to you. You're free to do whatever mental gymnastics are required to continue to hold an absolute belief on this topic, which has no meaning.
And you're welcome to keep refusing to believe that sharing fun facts with people can be small talk, no skin off me. Also it feels odd to that you accuse me of mental gymnastics to hold an absolute belief, when other people here define the same conversational patterns and topics as small talk when it's with people they don't wanna talk to, but some other mystery thing when it's with people they do want to talk to. Not sure what is more gymnastics than that.
We don’t. Weigh the risk/reward and determine what you really want vs what you’re willing to offer. If you’re not willing to offer a partner who requires the full emotional and social commitment of human connectivity and only in it for base needs, you’re an asshole. If you both agree that it’s just about satisfying each other’s base needs, great. Eventually you get old enough you don’t care anymore and coming home to no one is a blessing, just four walls blocking the noise of society, a dog or cat or both, and the blissful solitude of not having no responsibility for the emotional needs of another human being even if deep down you know yours are unsatisfied. Accept you’re a hot mess that other people shouldn’t have to deal with and make the best of what you’ve got without dragging someone else into your cycle of misery.
Nobody hates small talk. They hate meeting new people and the awkwardness and embarrassment of that situation. When you are comfortable with someone you don’t mind small talk or you’re comfortable enough with them to just exit the conversation because it’s boring.
I just don't like talking to people I don't know about nothing. It's not awkward or embarrassing. I just don't like it. I'm happy to be ignored 99% of the time.
Which is funny because I talk about nothing on here all the fucking time.
I don't hate meeting new people. It is quite refreshing in fact. Some people are turds, but most aren't. Plus if you meet a stranger who is crap, you can just ask uncomfortable questions and/or mock them in subtle ways. Either they will go away or you will entertain yourself. Win/win.
I can assure you that there were people who didn't like small talk, and people who didn't quite get that, long before the internet was a twinkle in Berners-lee's eye
Not liking it isn't the same thing as not doing it, or even not knowing how to do it well. It's a necessary evil, one of many things in life like having to do laundry, or waking up earlier than you'd like to. Sure there are some people who don't do those things either (and fall out of society), but there are few who deeply enjoy them. So too with small talk, it's for colleagues and acquaintances. The way someone becomes my friend is immediately when I realise that they are open to deeper talk
I don't understand why it is that we all have to pretend that society is supposed to be this anti-social.
Mate, that bus-stop story some lady has about how proud she is of her son for getting into the college he wanted is a story I want to hear, and you're making that more difficult for me.
No a band is a thing with a lot of fans that can cross borders with near-impunity that plays a vital role in our police state.
A "pot head" is a festival cop, to contrast a "crackhead" who is that "homeless" guy on the light rail mouthing off and doing fetty that never gets arrested.
I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone say that they enjoy small talk. It’s just the small talk haters trying to claim that they only talk about important topics while everyone else is stupid and boring.
From my experience, boring people are bored and they need someone else to entertain them. A conversation requires two or more people. Nobody is going around telling them to stop talking about interesting topics.
Asking my life partner how their day was is not small talk. Asking the same question from the cashier at the grocery checkout is small talk.
What if they are the same person?
It averages out to medium talk.
I'm not a scientist, but I don't think that's right.
If there's someone behind you, that's called "holding up the line."
Then you shouldn't be buying groceries to begin with, they should be getting them with their employee discount.
They're both small talk, you're just calling the scenarios you don't like doing it small talk and the ones you don't mind doing it something else.
I would say that small talk is when you ask questions you don't actually care to know the answers to, just to fill the silence. "Did you catch the game last night?" is small talk if I'm talking to my coworker whose name I don't even remember, but it's not small talk when I'm talking to my friend who I know has been invested in the season, and whose opinion I actually want to know.
It's small talk both times, you just don't like forced conversation with your coworker. And that's fine, but they're both small talk. And no, I strongly disagree that it's defined as answers you don't care about the answer to. Many people who describe themselves as enjoying small talk do care about the answers, or else they wouldn't be asking them or they'd be asking something else.
I don't know why people have defined small talk as some exclusively negative thing. It'd be like someone saying riding a bike isn't exercising because it's fun.
I don't believe that small talk must be exclusively negative just because you don't care about the answers. I don't think anyone can honestly claim that people ask things like "crazy weather we're having, huh?" because they genuinely want to know if you agree about the weather. They just like talking. They like hearing themselves and others make noise. Nothing wrong with that, but I think it's telling when the people I know who enjoy small talk rarely remember the things I said last time we engaged in small talk - they don't care about the answers, so they don't remember them. Again, nothing wrong with just enjoying passing the time with meaningless chatter, but I certainly believe that it is indeed the meaninglessness that defines whether it's small talk or not.
I didn’t say anything about not liking either of these. The two scenarios are qualitatively different. The purpose of the one at home is to learn what happened that day, how the other person feels about it, planning what we do with the rest of our day, and so on. It’s an exchange of information.
The purpose of asking the cashier about their day is not to actually learn what happened with them (unless you actually know the person of course). It is exchanging pleasantries or just making banter, without the intent of exchanging any information that matters to the other person. I don’t dislike it. But it’s not a conversation, it’s small talk.
I read your top level comment as well and you do seem really irked that some people differentiate small talk from conversation. It seems like you’re fighting windmills though, and it’s in fact you who for some reason has strong feelings about the topic.
Small talk is an important part of interpersonal communication, and it’s good when it creates a sense of comfort, belonging, or serves as the prelude for a deeper conversation. But it can be annoying if it’s self serving, because either it fails creating any positive feelings, or it never gets past the warmup phase. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with people who don’t enjoy small talk, or with those who do.
I guess my gripe is the examples people give, like if you really don't care, why ask? And I don't mean the standard "hi how are you fine thanks you fine" dance, I mean why ask a cashier how their day is going if you don't care? If you want to talk to them, why wouldn't you ask them something you actually do care about? There are plenty of ways to conversate, break ice, fill a silence (if people feel so obligated) that don't involve asking questions that they don't care about, so why ask the ones they don't care about and then complain about the process? "Omg, I asked the cashier about the weather, but I hate talking about the weather and it sucked." Then ask about something you do want to talk about if you want to talk? It's not like it's impossible.
Because it's polite, we live in a society
I never said not to though, lmao, I said to pick something you actually want to talk about.
I never said you said not to, LOL
That's the question I answered, it's in the very first sentence of the comment I responded to.
OP and all your down votes are from morons. Don't fret
I sort of expected it might be the case. People who say they dislike small talk are really weirdly adamant about it.
There's a clear issue in how people define the phrase, and it's easy to understand why when I look up the definition and the Merriam-Webster defines it as "light or casual conversation" with the synonym of "chitchat" but the Cambridge dictionary specifically says that it's "conversations about things that are not important, often between people who do not know each other well."
Those are two very distinct views on the concept (with the second having a rather...negative connotation to it, in my opinion), and I think it gets even further muddled by one very simple thing that I think is the real root of the argument: whether someone is an introvert or an extrovert. And I'm not talking about the "introvert=shy" that has pervaded common culture, but the actual psychological definition of the two which is about how people use and recharge mental/emotional energy. Extroverts are energized by social interaction, regardless of whether they're shy or not, while introverts are exhausted by it. So introverts naturally have a more transactional relationship with social interaction because they have to. If they didn't, they'd emotionally and mentally burn out. So to an introvert, any social interaction has to be weighed against how much mental and emotional energy they're willing to invest into it, and cultural formalities with people you don't know or care about to simply fill periods of silence with human noise would therefore fall very far down the list of things that they want to do. Whereas an extrovert, for whom basically any conversation could be like water to a parched plant, would delight at pretty much any chance to engage any random person.
So what we really have in this thread is introverts saying that they'd rather spend their limited daily emotional labor on the people they love than random strangers and extroverts mystified by the concept that anybody would balk at the opportunity for stimulating conversation.
I'll muddy the waters further by saying I'm an introvert (and not in the shy way, the same way you describe it) but still define it as light conversation, not unimportant conversation I don't care about the answers to.
That helps explain why it feels divided though, thanks for sharing the actual definitions.
People who don't know each other well almost exclusively talk about things that don't matter, I don't see how that's negative at all. Also this whole introvert/extrovert dichotomy is a massive oversimplification of how people behave and interact. I legitimately don't fit in either of your descriptions, so I know for a fact they don't cover all the bases. As far as I can tell, I'm just a vert. I lose energy by expending it and I gain energy by comsuming it. Also sleep and sunlight help.
People think that "i hate small talk" must mean "i want big talk" because they cannot comprehend the idea of just shutting tf up
These thoughts rattling around in my head and this breath in my lungs would be wasted forever unless I combine them and thrust it upon your unwilling ears
—the entire world for some reason
Sorry, I'm quieter when I take my Ritalin!
Not always true and a little besides the point. I went through a period where my friend circle ONLY made small talk. Hang out for a couple hours at a bar, 90% no talking and when we did it was either to insult each other or talk about our beers.
It became exhausting. Unsurprisingly we went our separate ways and never contacted each other again.
What the duck are you taking about Joey?!?
Yeah I can't imagine the alternative. A life where you and your partner aren't comfortable in silence sounds like a nightmare.
Truth!
Bo said it best
Some people are just scared of silence I guess.
Talking To my partner isn't small talk. Sustaining a conversation with a coworker who won't shut the fuck up is small talk
It doesn't become small talk just because you don't like it, it's still small talk.
That's what normies don't get about introverts: we're not above small talk, we're above small talk when it's all there is. Of course we'll ask the loved one how their day has been, and the fact is we'll actually shut the fuck up and listen to it all, and when things become serious we'll talk to say meaningful things.
Else, there's folie à deux echolalia, shitty jokes, movie lines, comfortable silence, or skipping it all to 'scorching hot sex'.
I'm all for small talk. It's the superfluous small talk just to kill dead air I hate. I'd rather sit in an elevator and say nothing than talk about how much rain we're about to get this afternoon.
Thats insert x location weather for ya'! don't like it, Just wait five minutes! *proceeds to slap knee'
No I'm sorry, interiority cannot be tolerated or respected. You're doing it wrong.
Yeah, I mean don't ask me how I'm doing if you don't want to hear the answer. Don't look at me weird when I say "not great" if you're the one who asked!
I'm not obliged to say "Great, thanks!" when you ask me how I am. I'm not doing great, and I'm not gonna lie about it just to make you feel better about a question that you asked!
That's what I mean when I say I hate smalltalk. It's so insincere, and exhausting to carry on day-to-day with no deeper conversation.
My bf and I barely talk at all. It's fucking awesome just being comfortable shutting the fuck up together.
You mean you don’t have someone constantly at their/your wits’ end… telling you that you’re either the cause of , or lack of the cause of everything?
Thought I was just old fashioned… LOVE…
Nah; I split with my abusive af wife years ago.
#goals
Me and my gf are the same. If course we have lots of meaningful and not so meaningful conversations. But we can also spend days barely talking, just doing our own thing. But together. I love it!
What's wrong with silence? You don't have to talk continuously.
Don't have to be silent continuously either, for that matter!
Actually, you do!
(joking)
All of us will be, eventually.
I don't mind having a conversation about stupid bullshit, I love those. But I do hate having a superficial conversation filled with lies and obfuscation about meaningless topics neither of us care about solely for the sake of filling the silence. It's a waste of energy and time.
Then bring your A game to every conversation. Most people are interesting, they just need steering towards their subject of interest.
I think you have to be pretty open to new things for this to be true, a lot of people will shut down and think certain topics are boring, art for example. You kind of have to force yourself to find those things interesting for a while before everything seems interesting.
I don't know my experience is everything is interesting if someone is passionate about it. It's mostly my fault when I'm only waiting for my turn to talk. (Mostly the reason is I'm forgetful and if I think I have something good to add I'm afraid I'll forget it)
I think it's sort of a two-way street, people feel a lot more passionate sharing something if the other person shows real interest in it. Being the person who makes them want to talk about it is more a skill I had to learn :p
Oh my sweet summer sunshine. It's not other people's jobs to do your emotional labor for you.
You're kinda confirming my pet theory that the "I don't do small talk" people are all cunts
Some people make it into a personality trait, definitely.
Oh, they are. The lot of them have given up on building any useful social skills whatsoever and kind of resent you for even asking them to.
They're like Cloud when Aerith has to teach him what a high five is. Except Cloud actually wants to learn.
I'm in the "no small talk" camp. I at least try to not be a cunt at first. But I have no problems firing back.
I imagine many people in the group though just really don't want to be bothered and being sharp with someone is usually a fast way to end that bother. They may not be cunts on the regular, they may just not want to be involved with the other person.
I agree that the other person was being cunty though. That condescending "sweet summer w/e" shit is rude af unless it's done to be silly.
No, they're introverts and therefore have to weigh every social interaction with how much of their emotional labor/mental energy they want to spend on it.
Think of it this way: as an introvert, you start the day with 10 spoons. Every time you talk to someone, you lose a spoon. How many spoons are you willing to give up to Frank and his play by play on what your other coworker is doing right now (you know, the coworker that's also sitting next to you both)? Maybe you'd rather use those spoons on playing with your kids.
In this nonsense scenario, extroverts start the day with 0 spoons but generate a spoon whenever they socially interact because extroverts regain emotional/mental energy through social interaction. In theory, you could game the system by having two extroverts talk to each other every moment of the day to create infinite spoons and start your own silverware company.
Nobody's expecting you to. But I'd fell like you're missing out on the human experience.
Firstly, that sounds great. Secondly small talk is meaningless filler, not common topics, so asking common things is not small talk as long as I actually care and participate in the conversion (like "how are you?" Or "how was your day?" Or even "interesting weather today")
It can also be foreplay for a deep conversation - you stroke and give little kisses in the form of familiar phrases (how are you? Work has been tough this week), then you start sliding hands a little under their clothes in the form of asking broad questions about the things people like to talk about (I love my cat, do you have any pets?), and then you work up to third base by finding something really interesting you both want to talk about (so, then they found ten other subspecies of deep-sea pseudoplancton, and two of those make a chemical that can induce hallucinations ...).
Then afterwards, a nice snuggle of small talk again before heading back home (well, I hope Billy is feeling better by next week, let me know what restaurant you'd like to go to and I can drag Bobby along too)
Sounds to me like deep talk. I only talk about how terrible work is with people I trust.
With silence. Peace and tranquility. Simply enjoying someone's very presence without needing to verbalize it
Talking random bullshit with someone you know well is great, performative socially masked pleasantries specifically chosen for their generality, and uncontroversial nature is immensely draining emotionally and mentally.
Dragging my tongue over ice-cold saccharine cream tainted by biter cacao seeds as grainy bits of sand dig into my exposed flesh and the roar of the ocean assaults my tender eardrums.
Every moment at the beach is unspeakable anguish.
Saying talking to the cashier is "... immensely draining emotionally and mentally" is some seriously high drama.
The world really isn't that hard to deal with. Most people are actually quite kind. Not me of course, but most people.
I don't count being polite in public small talk, I mean things like being at a party where you don't know anybody, work events, ceremonial events, those kinds of small, short hells.
It's really hard for me to meet people when it's like "what do you do" and I answer and they say "how is that" and I answer and then they ask where I'm from and then say it's rainy.
I don't think people hate small talk so much as they hate it when people are bad at small talk. A lot of awkward people will barrage you with questions and you don't even get the opportunity to ask them the question back because they just keep peppering you.
You're missing an opportunity to be irritating for your own entertainment. Don't let these go by!
The definition of small talk is literally establishing common ground in some way. It's only meant for people you don't or barely know.
It's absolutely unnecessary for people you already know deeply.
We're both autistic and therefore both hate small talk. Problem solved.
You don’t need to discuss how pleasant the weather is, but talking about the important things in your life is necessary for a meaningful relationship.
It’s necessary, but discussing the big important things don’t take up very much time in a long term relationship. There’s a lot more small talk that happens, so best to be on the same page about both with your partner!
I’ll just sit and not say stuff for hours with my partner. It’s nice.
The more I read into this thread, the more I appreciate being German. I don't talk to the cashier besides smiling at them and saying hello and goodbye and they don't expect me to. I only talk to people I want to talk to, besides at work. But even there I keep it low.
It's not that I don't like to talk. I just prefer to talk with a meaning.
You might like New Jersey to then. "How you doing" is about the extent of it. I can see people I know while out for a run, walk, grocery, whatever, and you're only getting a how you doing unless there's something important we need to discuss. Neighbors, you get a smile and a wave. I'm not striking up a conversation just to strike up a conversation, and that's how most of us are.
At the same time, we can plan to get together and then do get-together stuff, including those meaningless or meaningful conversations.
I hope you don't get me wrong. Ten years ago I might have thought about that. But in the meantime, the USA have removed themselves from the list of countries I want to visit for the foreseeable future and probably beyond. And even 10 years ago, I wasn't really eager to visit.
I understand why you're saying it. There isn't really a place that's representative of the US as a whole, and NJ certainly doesn't represent the qualities that you're presumably trying to avoid. But the internet paints this picture that definitely looks bleak, so I can appreciate your sentiment.
It's not that I fear for myself. I am aware that I, as a white German dude, will probably be fine in the US. It's more of a statement I want to express. You, the US of A, won't see a cent from me as long as I can prevent it. I've cancelled my subscriptions. If it's made in the USA it's not made for me, etc. And I'm making sure my government knows what I think about playing nice with the beast.
I know there are great people in the USA and I'm sure you are one of them. But your country turned to shit.
Hey, you won't find me disagreeing. I try to stay local, small businesses, all of that. It has been a disappointing decade for sure, but I'm not going to lose hope.
All the best to you and the other people that don't agree with the government. Let's hope it'll get better soon.
That's how the vast majority of people here are. Say hi to the cashier, maybe chat with them a second if you've seen them a few times, then move about your day. People don't randomly have an hour long conversations.
Peak romance ❤️
I mean, the Fins have a thriving society.
I can’t explain it, but they’re among the happiest people on earth.
There was an interesting theory in a paper: during happiness research they interview people and ask them to imagine what the best life would look like and then estimate where they are compared to it in a scale of 0 to 10.
Well, in Finnish comprehensive schools we use grading 4-10 where 4 is "failed", so everything under 7 is bad and 8 is merely "ok". And as we learn this odd scale quite early it's stuck in our heads. So yeah.
I don't know any Finnish person that would describe their life as happy. Perhaps we mean to grade our life as merely tolerable when asked and the scale doesn't take into account this weird system that we use!
Wow, I thought this kind of scaling was just in the 5 star review where companies think 4 stars is failure and 5 stars is ok.
My husband and I absolutely do discuss free will and other philosophical questions. Being able to have those conversations is what drew us together.
Some people talk about the weather or their local sports squadrons. We would rather discuss the ethical implications of modern technology or the nature of knowledge or art.
You can have both, damn.
yes, thats what I want
Exclusively dating ND women has been a blessed relief from small talk
Every woman I've dated since high school has been taller and more autistic than the last. If my wife ever leaves me, I'll need to find a non-verbal WNBA star.
This guy likes Uppies
AY LMAO!
That's not an option for an adult man. We had to leave those behind.
...right?
I hate small talk, vehemently opposed to it... been married over 15 years...
When it is someone you truly love and cherish... even the most mundane things come with a sense of beauty and wonder, because it's them. Their thoughts, their opinions, their take on whatever applies the meaning. My wife and I can talk about the rain and the trees and the bugs and the birds for hours, for no other reason than it gives us a chance to be together.
Looking at it the way the post does... you're missing the forest because of all the trees.
I love the talks with my life partner about the inner depth of the universe and the emptiness beyond. I hate when he doesn't listen to me about something that I know is a good insight. I also hate when he outright shows coldness. I do that sometimes. I understand we are so good for each other for we are good archetypes that fit together. He doesn't do small talk sometimes, and he lies about the stupidest things to cut small talk to nothing. But I love him. He's special, and I'm just happy someone understands my crazy so well.
Now God threatens me with how they ALL, including my life partner set me up. I'm not good enough for anything. What? Grandma? She's ded
So, you think true will exists or what?
I hope so, I'm getting sick of meeting all these fake Wills
No you transition straight into hardcore steamy sex
"Hi honey, i'm home".
"Acknowledged, hun."
Again. Awesome. Truly never gets old. Can't wait to do this shit for the rest of my fucking life.
How was your day?
Do people in relationships actually talk about useless shit all day??
We definitely do a lot of gossip.
We either have free will or we have the illusion of free will so convincing and persistent that no meaningful distinction can be drawn and we must continue to act as if we have free will.
Also, if there is no free will, there is nothing you can do about it, nothing changes.
Begin the day with a friendly voice, a companion unobtrusive.
Deeply unsettling
The magic music makes your morning move.
Life partner arrives home. Me: extends middle finger. Life partner: grunts. The rest of the interaction: [redacted]
“I am home” is not small talk but a declaration, you inform anyone else currently in the home that you specifically (and not a burglar) are now present.
Or you want to have your life narated, but can't afford to hire a voice actor and talking in thirth person feels weird.
Because the purpose of life is to experience it?
Hearing what happened at my gf's office shows that I'm interested in what she's doing. Her telling me about her coworker who had a health scare means she cares about the people around her in that office. Her asking how my baseball game went means she cares that I did well, or I had fun playing the game.
Life isn't a bunch of yes/no/maybe computer prompts from an RPG. That sounds like a miserable way to live to be honest.
...yes?
Yes it exists or yes that’s your conversational plan?
Yes.
I thought so about myself too, until i realise i hate small talk because most of the time it's about topic idgaf or with people i don't want to interact with or when i'm supposed to focus.
Okay, so here's the thing. My wife and I have been doing this to each other for nearly 20 years. She's a philosophy major. I'm a math major. This was probably one of our first big arguments. Any time either one of us stumble on a proof or a study or a tangential bit of theory or semi-relevant meme, we will immediately reignite the struggle session over free-will for the rest of the week.
Seems silly to exert so much effort over something that clearly can't exist?
I don't hate small talk. I'm just not good at it.
Yes. Works for me.
"Hey babe! I already ordered delivery. Let's fuck~"
if this matches your idea of destressing after a long day, and you're a furry, 📮🥺
E: and before the inevitable 'but what do you do after the sex?' - well you see, you eat, and then have more sex. Then maybe a shower before bed. Possibly involving sex.
How does that actually end up working? If you have running water, doesn't it wash off lubrication?
In my experience, you need to step out of the flow of water usually, otherwise most complain. I don't mind it myself, and I pre like a faucet so I can get jerked off right under the flow of water and it makes no difference.
Yeah, that's been my experience with it. It works alright if you stick to the non penetration stuff though.
the best kind of relationship is the one where you can be silent together and you don't have to talk about trivial crap.
it blows my mind how much trivial miserable nonsense makes up most folks conversations, and how obsessed they are with other folks... and 100% they would be RIPSHIT if someone else talked about them the way they talked about the person they are gossiping about...
I used to have an ex who would viciously gossip about her friends/co-workers intimate details to me, and I asked her once what she would think if they did that about her. She got so angry at the thought... least to say we broke up pretty soon afterwards.
And I was a lot happier without her going on for hours about Lydia's boyfriend's crack addiction and his limp dick, etc.
I just like keeping it real. I genuinely don't care about your day and I won't pretend like I do in order to fill the "awkward" silence. If I'm interested enough to talk to you, then it isn't small talk
If you care about someone, then you care what happened to them.
Then it isn't small talk if I care about someone
So asking how some ones day went isn't small talk then?
I think your definition of small talk doesn't line up with how people use it.
We don't plan to
Sincerely, schizoids
I just start trauma dumping
My wife thinks that determinism causes you to 'give up' so you don't fight against injustice. I, being a determinist, am obviously annoyed by this characterization. I would say that I am just as enthused to do things; I just wouldn't attribute the enthusiasm to some mystical will that conjures it from nothing.
I'm utterly convinced that nobody actually dislikes small talk, they just redefine it to something different in their minds or imagine it was unenjoyable by definition. It's so common that you'll see people say they dislike small talk and the say something like "meaningless conversation with people they don't like." As if "liking small talk" somehow means you have to like it with everyone, which is something nobody has ever seriously said. It's just that small talk comes up in the context of strangers because generally those topics are more permissable with people you don't know (as opposed to big talk topics like "do you think free will exists").
Also I think a lot of people who claim they dislike small talk view the topics as exclusively things they dislike. As if it can only be about the weather and sports or something. Which, again, is not something anyone has ever said seriously.
It just feels very performative I guess? I'm not sure why it irks me I guess. Like they'll say "I hate small talk" then talk about a video game they've been enjoying with their friends. Like, what the hell do you think you're doing if not small talk? Talking about recent media you've enjoyed is small talk.
fucking hate it. I'm here for the real depth of humanity, or to transmit and receive infodumping.
The rest of it is exhausting. Imagine if you had to manually discard every piece of meaningless information you had to listen to in small talk. I have to do that. It's annoying at the very least, and when you have to be in the room with people who LOVE small talk it's a nightmare.
But why do you think that you can't talk about things that interest you as small talk? Sharing interesting facts about stuff is absolutely small talk! You're saying you don't want to small talk, you want to info dump, but those aren't mutually exclusive!
Autism, bro.
I am capable talking about whatever you define as small talk, but its not enjoyable for either of us if I do. Like I said, I'm there for real problems or philosophical musings for deep issues of life.. and the infodump process is enjoyable for me, but that is NOT small talk.
You're saying it's simultaneously enjoyable but not enjoyable?
I really am not interested in finding a third way to express this to you. You're free to do whatever mental gymnastics are required to continue to hold an absolute belief on this topic, which has no meaning.
And you're welcome to keep refusing to believe that sharing fun facts with people can be small talk, no skin off me. Also it feels odd to that you accuse me of mental gymnastics to hold an absolute belief, when other people here define the same conversational patterns and topics as small talk when it's with people they don't wanna talk to, but some other mystery thing when it's with people they do want to talk to. Not sure what is more gymnastics than that.
Yeah I didn’t say that, and you’re kind of demonstrating my point.
How about this: I actually really enjoy it and just cant accept the convoluted logic to understand that for myself.
Now you’re right! Just like you want to believe.
Or they just have to put in more effort to talk, form sentences.
How I actually talk to my wife
We don’t. Weigh the risk/reward and determine what you really want vs what you’re willing to offer. If you’re not willing to offer a partner who requires the full emotional and social commitment of human connectivity and only in it for base needs, you’re an asshole. If you both agree that it’s just about satisfying each other’s base needs, great. Eventually you get old enough you don’t care anymore and coming home to no one is a blessing, just four walls blocking the noise of society, a dog or cat or both, and the blissful solitude of not having no responsibility for the emotional needs of another human being even if deep down you know yours are unsatisfied. Accept you’re a hot mess that other people shouldn’t have to deal with and make the best of what you’ve got without dragging someone else into your cycle of misery.
Wo
Yeah actually that sounds pretty good, might ask my partner about it when she comes home
Nobody hates small talk. They hate meeting new people and the awkwardness and embarrassment of that situation. When you are comfortable with someone you don’t mind small talk or you’re comfortable enough with them to just exit the conversation because it’s boring.
I just don't like talking to people I don't know about nothing. It's not awkward or embarrassing. I just don't like it. I'm happy to be ignored 99% of the time.
Which is funny because I talk about nothing on here all the fucking time.
I didn't say nuthin
I don't hate meeting new people. It is quite refreshing in fact. Some people are turds, but most aren't. Plus if you meet a stranger who is crap, you can just ask uncomfortable questions and/or mock them in subtle ways. Either they will go away or you will entertain yourself. Win/win.
Hume, obviously. Although if forced to choose, Kant. But not very much.
You mean to say: you kant descarte hume?
I'm gonna take Descartes as discount there and give you a +
that’s the “neat” part
Chronically online people complaining about having to do the bare minimum of socializing to be nice to other people is classic Internet
I can assure you that there were people who didn't like small talk, and people who didn't quite get that, long before the internet was a twinkle in Berners-lee's eye
And I can assure you that spending all of your time in your room is a recipe for never learning how to do it.
Not liking it isn't the same thing as not doing it, or even not knowing how to do it well. It's a necessary evil, one of many things in life like having to do laundry, or waking up earlier than you'd like to. Sure there are some people who don't do those things either (and fall out of society), but there are few who deeply enjoy them. So too with small talk, it's for colleagues and acquaintances. The way someone becomes my friend is immediately when I realise that they are open to deeper talk
I don't understand why it is that we all have to pretend that society is supposed to be this anti-social.
Mate, that bus-stop story some lady has about how proud she is of her son for getting into the college he wanted is a story I want to hear, and you're making that more difficult for me.
I just don't like talking, no matter the size.
I talk about the big of talk when the talking go to flow about the ways this those do go the ways God did intendeder
Are and is get got to car corn go got gain in sniff horn am bat this un.
Don't eat you money or your mom with come through the corn on the other side of Berkeley.
A band in the face is pardoned if gathering yolks takes almonds. Many a surfeit of clovers is am be.
No a band is a thing with a lot of fans that can cross borders with near-impunity that plays a vital role in our police state.
A "pot head" is a festival cop, to contrast a "crackhead" who is that "homeless" guy on the light rail mouthing off and doing fetty that never gets arrested.
People that claim to hate small talk should be forced to listen to themselves talk.
Counterpoint: people that claim to enjoy small talk should be forced to listen to themselves talk.
I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone say that they enjoy small talk. It’s just the small talk haters trying to claim that they only talk about important topics while everyone else is stupid and boring.
From my experience, boring people are bored and they need someone else to entertain them. A conversation requires two or more people. Nobody is going around telling them to stop talking about interesting topics.
So... silence, then?
I’m feeling happier already.