Spyke
asklemmy·Ask Lemmybyyottle

What do you think of homeschooling?

Anecdotally, most current or former homeschooled kids I meet seem pretty socially awkward. I wonder if It's because the miss-out on the opportunity to learn how to socialize properly as children. But maybe I'm being too critical, idk.

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lemmy.today

Former homeschooled kid here. Everything I'm about to say is personal experience but I've known many other homeschooled people throughout my life.

With homeschooling you get out what you put in. If the parents take the time to really dial in to the child's learning needs and set up adequate socialization through after school activities or meetups with other homeschoolers I truly believe it is one of if not the best option for raising a child.

That being said, most of the people choosing to homeschool are not doing it to give their kids the best. Many are narcissistic conservatives who deny modern science and homeschool not to teach the child but to indoctrinate. They don't consider mental health important. They don't consider friends important. They consider the kid learning the Bible and toughening up important. The parents are often social outcasts themselves because of their more strict beliefs.

Homeschooling is not a problem and doesn't result in anything directly, it's the people choosing to homeschool not being equipped to do it properly. In my experience the kind of parent who would choose homeschooling is likely to produce a social awkward kid even if they don't homeschool.

TL:DR - Homeschooling good. Most everyone who chooses homeschooling bad. Hug your kids.

79
sleepmodereply
lemmy.world

This… I remember one of our neighbors finally letting their homeschooled kid go to public school and play with us. We had to teach him how to run. I remember my young mind being baffled by this. He was incredibly naïve and overly trusting so he got bullied mercilessly and beat up at recess. His mother did him no favors by being really nasty with us when we went over to take him fishing, exploring, etc. We moved away and i wonder what happened to him… he was a gentle soul.

40

Aw that's so rough on the poor guy, it likely did him a world of good moving forward that he had friends like you to open his eyes, even if it was a short time.

I had the reverse happen where I was teaching the public school kids that you could climb trees. I'm sure it wasn't mindblowing for them, but they had just never thought about it before. We were like 13 at the time.

9
piefed.ca

I had a wonderful experience too, my parents really put their heart and soul into me and my siblings and we had a local homeschooling group larger than one of the nearby schools that did minimum weekly outings and the like.

I'm an electrical engineer now, my sisters are lawyers, bankers, and concert pianists, my brothers are studying for medical doctorate and running a forge, and many of my friends are in similar places.

Just to add my voice to yours, it's absolutely all about what you put into it. I have deep lifelong friendships from my homeschooling days, the heavy intent our parents had on the social aspect was imperative. I joined after school activities by the local high-schools later on and met some great public school friends.

The natural flow of learning time-wise vs the rigidity of public school is a studied and proven to be far more conducive to education, as well, and I wish public schools would learn this.

Mine and my siblings' and friends' experience was amazing compared to most if not all of my public school friends, and it was all thanks to our parents pouring their lives into giving us all of the knowledge and environments we needed. It can definitely not go this way, if the parent isn't actively providing those environments, but it is and always will be an issue of the tool being used incorrectly.

10

Just need to correct one small thing.

I had a wonderful experience too

My experience was absolutely terrible and I would have been better off in a public school. My parents were proof of why homeschooling is the wrong choice 99% of the time

4

Yeah the ones I know only see Facebook news (pushed by Russian bots and right wing propoganda) about how public schools are evil and bad and you should definitely send your child to private religious school (who definitely won't rape them) or home school them to install horrible values to ensure they grow up to vote regressive .

Its bad man.

5

I was homeschooled by such parents as you describe, and I still have social difficulties in my 30's because of it. I also wasn't hugged at all, but I don't think that alone would have fixed it 😛

5

I have friends in the old country who do homeschooling. They're the kind who do it for good reasons. The amount of controls, checks and justifications the parents have to go through constantly is huge. Constantly prove the teaching methods, program, environment, everything. So there are ways to permit homeschooling that seem better it seems.

4
lemmy.zip

It is illegal here, parents are required to send their children to school for a minimum of nine years.

This is to protect the interests of the child, Sweden has several laws that are focused on the child's rights over the parent's authority.

I have read arguments from people in the US who homeschool their kids about how it is the parent's right to manage their children's education.

But to me that just seems wrong, in Sweden children have the right to a high quality education that follows a proper plan and is done by professional teachers, it is the duty of the parents to make sure the children attends their education.

Homeschooling means that the government can't verify that the education the children receive is up to standards set by the department of education.

Just about all education in Sweden is free to Swedes and EU citizens, so there is zero financial reason to do homeschooling over regular schooling here.

61
chunesreply
lemmy.world

In the US, the quality of schools varies drastically based on where you live. There's no guarantee that kids are getting a good education unfortunately

14
draccreply
discuss.tchncs.de

The Swedish school system didn't pop up out of thin air either. Of course you'll have to invest in the system for it to work.

20

right but we have a significant portion of the population trying to privatize it, which by design makes it unequal

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AskewLordreply
piefed.social

we don't have national education policy.

education is 90% determined by the town or city you live in. even states have minimal influence over local districts.

schools in the same district, and schools a few kim apart, can have wildly different standards and outcomes.

the only major factor is basically, how wealthy your zipcodes/parents were. that is the overwhelming determination of your educational outcome, because richer parents value education more than non-rich parents.

in poorer communities, education is seen negatively and it's actively discouraged.

4

the only major factor is basically, how wealthy your zipcodes/parents were. that is the overwhelming determination of your educational outcome, because richer parents value education more than non-rich parents.

in poorer communities, education is seen negatively and it’s actively discouraged.

I think you're about to be visited in the night by three ghosts.

3
draccreply
discuss.tchncs.de

Right. Then you'd have to start by making a national education policy. I'm not saying it will be easy (Sweden did by no means get it perfect right away, nor is it perfect now) but unless you start somewhere you won't ever get to a better place.

1
AskewLordreply
piefed.social

Anytime we do that things get way worse than they were previously. No Child Left Behind accelerated the destruction of our education system by basically punishing poor schools for being poor. Our Federal government should get out of education policy entire. It should provide funds for school construction and infrastructure.

1
draccreply
discuss.tchncs.de

Yeah, no, with that NIMBY attitude nothing will ever get done. You really think the rest of the developed world got to were they are without some chafing along the way? It's almost as if you don't want shit to get better with that typical American defeatist mentality.

1

No. Education works best from the bottom up. Parents are the biggest factor, not teachers or schools.

1

True

But there is more or less a guarantee that kids that are being homeschooled are not getting a good education.

3

I've heard that before, and would be a fan of making it illegal in America as well, there's a strong argument that doing so would improve the quality of American schools significantly.

The idea being that if rich children go to public schools then the rich will be more focused on improving public school instead of attempting to defund it

5
Flagstaffreply
programming.dev

Homeschooling means that the government can't verify that the education the children receive is up to standards set by the department of education.

Well... They do tests. They're sent to outside test centers so no one can cheat for them and mask their incompetence or something. Doesn't everyone periodically run tests to ensure they're on track?

EDIT: Wow, I've been misled... Thanks for the enlightenment, everyone. I used to work with homeschooled students. Maybe the vetting quality was better back then or something...

3

You mean the national tests?

Sure, we have those, they take place in your normal school at the same time all over the country.

Ok, say a child is homeschooled for five years, and then fails a national test, that means that they have effectively lost a lot of their best time to learn, and they need to retake the subjects to catch up.

Proper schooling allows for students with special needs to get extra help.

I was one of those students, I was on the spectrum of having light autism, possibly some ADHD/ADD and similar stuff, I got an assistant teacher in school for several years, and even went to a smaller class specifically tailored towards students with my kind of mental issues, as I grew up I became more independent and learned to live with my difficulties, these days I don't consider myself to have any real problems from my earlier diagnosis, and can even use them to my advantage.

I got the help I needed, when I needed it, while attending mostly normal classes and getting socialize with fellow students.

The socializing part was hugely important for my development, without that I would not have been able to go as far as I have.

When I look at homeschooling, I see it as parents denying their children a proper education, often to force their own warped worldview onto their children, this obviously comes from someone who experienced a well functioning school, even if I was bullied at times.

TL;DR: Testing only shows the result of time spent in education, it can't catch students as they are about to fall through the cracks as a proper teacher can during lessons, this means that a homeschooled student that fails the test has lost a lot of opportunities to get extra help during their schooling.

7

You say this but I know someone homeschooled for years who learned next to nothing and is ruined for life because instead of having lessons for hours every day, he played videogames. You're suggesting he could not have gotten away with that, but he certainly did.

5

I was homeschooled in the US and no such testing was required, and it still is not required in my state. I think it absolutely should be required if homeschooling is going to continue to be allowed.

4

not really. i did the ACT and maybe one other state regulated test and i was homeschooled my entire life.

4

Americans value individual choices over collective responsibilities.

Homeschooling her is predominantly for those who fell they are not a part of our mainstream culture or that culture is corrupting. A lot of religious and other minority belief groups practice it.

1

Yeah but the difference is that Swedes and most other nationalities in the world can agree that they inhabit the same basic scientific reality and can have meaningful rational discourse about it.

In the USA there is a movement of people who don't believe in birds.

It's a nation basically intellectually stuck in the mid 1800s who seem convinced that knowledge and understanding about the physical world is a matter of ideological affiliation.

That's why they have home schooling. Because what if the teachers at school taught the wrong truth? Heresy would happen is what.

1

Your books have the same propaganda filtered down from the US and Israel as most of the EU right? And a kinda weird section on WWII like in Switzerland?

Do try to remember even though your government is relatively competent it is not really your interests or that of your children those institutions serve. It's still rich old men who want valuable workers.

Don't believe me, visit Brussels or an Ikea. You seem too comfortable with your education system.

-1
lemmy.world

The absolute back-breaker of the US educational system. They keep kids out of school to indoctrinate them by completly incompetent people instead of giving them a proper, universal education and the ability to come in regular contact with kids of their age outside the normal circles.

That does not mean that the US school system is the ultimate solution, on the contrary. But it would be much more important to fix that than to allow any yokel to brainwash their kids at home into a next generation undereducated and narrowminded person.

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AskewLordreply
piefed.social

a lot of schools are full of yokels. my primary and secondary education were full of yokels. 1/3 of the teacher staff were townies and a lot of them were idiots and drunks.

i never met a smart person until i went to college.

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Treczoksreply
lemmy.world

That's why beefing up public schools is something that should have priority.

2

You can't beef them up from the top down in the USA. 10% of school funds come from the feds.

1

This is funny to me because I was homeschooled specifically so I wouldn’t become an uneducated yokel lmao

1

Unless you’re an expert on child development and education, then you’re not qualified.

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Talarainereply
fedia.io

While I can imagine all the nightmare scenarios, I've known a number of homeschooled kids who grew up with distinct advantages. There are flaws with public school too, as I'm sure you're aware. At the end of the day, the problems surrounding proper education of children from wildly different situations are not solved with identical tactics.

7

Do you have links to back this up? The only thing I've seen that's been proven to be bad is how homeschooling is usually done, especially in America.

This is a subtle but important distinction. Homeschooling is not the problem. The lack of oversight and regulation is the problem. The lack of proper structure is the problem.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending it and do think It's the wrong choice 99 times out of 100. But saying homeschooling in and of itself is the problem isn't right.

5

The majority that defend homeschooling do so on pure ideological grounds. They accuse schools of indoctrinating kids, but they want to personally ensure their kids are indoctrinated the way they (the parents) deem correct. "Sex is evil! Women should submit to men! is pure evil! Never question me!" - these parents should NEVER homeschool their kids.

There are very few situations where homeschooling would be better for the kid over traditional schooling, and those situations are usually remedied with the school getting its shit together and being at least decent.

The school can't always get better though and can even be harmful to kids, due to bad teachers, bad staff, bad classmates or general precarious conditions, especially if the kid has any sort of special need (autism, down's syndrome, etc). Changing schools isn't always an option, whether due to distance or cost of moving back and forth every day, and that's usually when homeschooling should be done.

21
moonshadowreply
slrpnk.net

I was homeschooled for pretty much the exact opposite ideological reasons, and am so grateful to have had the chance to explore and develop without institutional constraints. Some great years traveling in a bus and seeing how a wide variety of people lived. To me homeschooling is an ideal of time commitment to a child that most people are unable to achieve, and offloading that opportunity to a centralized authority while you pursue a paycheck is a tragic compromise

7
Bazooglereply
lemmy.world

School is more than just what you learn. It's crucial for development to socialize with children your age, and close to your age. There's a reason the stereotype that homeschoolers are socially awkward exists

10

There’s plenty of opportunity to socialize as a homeschooler. The stereotype exists because many (most?) homeschooled kids are so because the isolation and rejection of social norms is the point. But there’s also a demographic of them that exist because they live in bad school districts and don’t have the money for private school.

Neighborhood kids form bonds with other neighborhood kids regardless of the school they go to. Homeschool kids are more often than not allowed to join their local school sports teams as well. I think you’d be surprised how many people you’ve met who were homeschooled that you’d never guess.

7

...when someone seems normal you aren't looking to explain their differences. The chance to socialize in the real world as opposed to a classroom environment is one of the things I value most about that period. We clearly have very different perspectives, in my community yours might be socially awkward. And that's ok, it is in no way "crucial" for you to think feel or act the way I do :)

3
piefed.world

I saw this question asked before and my answer is still the same. I have never met a homeschooled person who wasn't a fucking idiot. Do with that what you will.

21

Working engineer with a bachelor's and a master's degree 👋. I credit an older sister who got into the world first who gave warning to us younger ones and the good sense to listen to her advice. I can clock a homeschooler a mile out but the well educated, well socialized ones have put in a lot of effort to get there and I won't out them if they don't want to be. The well-adjusted ones don't talk about it much, same as a public school educated person wouldn't bring up their grade school experience frequently.

2

Cool. I've met several who went to Harvard, MIT, etc and were extremely successful in life.

1
lemmy.world

You've met many people who introduced themselves as homeschooled who were what you describe. You've interacted with many more who did not make their school history their whole personality.

0
daggermoonreply
piefed.world

I didn't mean to say all homeschooled people are stupid. Only the ones I met.

2

It took me years to overcome getting homeschooled for my first two years of high school. Learning how to socialize and deal with other people is an essential skill for the rest of your life and arguably more important than anything else they teach you - you can catch up on academics relatively quickly but nothing can replace daily interactions with your peers over multiple years. Everything important requires at least a little social skill - jobs, relationships, friends, peer networks

20

Depends on the where and why.

In the Netherlands because you think it's inadequate? No, the public education system there is exceptional, this is objectively the wrong position.

In the Deep South in the US because you feel the education system is inadequate, racist, corrupted by christofascism, and designed for failure? Based, there are plenty of good homeschool co-ops for parents with the same gripes.

In the Deep South because you think it isn't loony enough and you want your kid to be a raging lunatic like you? Go fuck yourself. Seriously. Stop having children.

19
redsandreply
infosec.pub

Homeschool co-ops. You're hilarious. Next you'll suggest people vote or strike their way out of the fascism.

1

I was "homeschooled", along with my many siblings, by Southern Baptist parents. I couldn't really read until I was 9, and my younger siblings until even later. My older siblings had it marginally better, but not by much.

I was horrendously under-socialiazed, and I still struggle with debilitating social anxiety to this day. Although I should emphasize that a couple of my siblings are very socially competent and relatively well-adjusted, so I'm not sure how much of my issues in that domain are nature vs. nurture.

It always made me feel awful and dumb to hear peers at church talking about school-related things and what subjects they were learning, because I had no idea what they were talking about, which exacerbated my social difficulties. In my teenage years I started to understand what was happening, and I practically had to beg my mother for any kind of instructional material. I taught myself algebra with the help of internet friends. I still distinctly recall how utterly unscientific and creationist-bent was a biology textbook I got; it was so bad that even I was questioning it at the time.

My younger siblings were eventually allowed to participate in a homeschooling "coop" after my younger brother begged for something. Homeschool coops involve homeschool families getting together to have some semi-structured classes, usually something like once a week. Said brother took a "psychology" class there, the textbook for which was written by a guy with a business or economics degree and no background in psychology, and it said mental illness was the result of sin.

Home schooling in my state is ridiculously under-regulated. All you have to do is be registered with a private school as homeschooling and submit transcripts that comply with the state education requirements. That's literally it. My mother fabricated them - the records say I took Spanish in high school, but I couldn't have told you much beyond "hola".

I went to college with what was essentially a fake high school diploma. I languished in my 20's. I got a master's degree in my 30's, but I was lucky and happened to be gifted when it came to academia; most homeschool kids aren't so fortunate. Most of my siblings have not managed to actualize their potential. I myself could have been doing much more much earlier if I hadn't gotten a woman pregnant during college because I'd never had anyone tell me to use a condom. In retrospect, my parents' duress at learning that I was having a child out of wedlock is almost comical for having been essentially self-induced.

I don't know if homeschooling should be banned outright (as I'm aware of select cases where some parents weren't neglectful and it was actually a better option for some kids due to various circumstances), but something needs to change. At a minimum, I think homeschoolers should be required to do the same state standardized testing as required in public schools in order to ensure they're not being outright neglected like I and my siblings were.

My child is attending public school, which has had it's own set of issues (bullying and a shocking amount of violence, for starters), but it's a marvel to me the gap between what she knows and what I knew at her age. She's learning things that I still haven't. She's better off for it.

Tl;Dr: don't homeschool, do improve public school.

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zoutreply

Like every other social awkward person?

5

I was homeschooled k-12 because my parents didn't want me to learn about evolution and "communism". I didn't have any close friends ever growing up because there was just no opportunity for that. I didn't have extended participation with other kids on a daily basis like I would've gotten if I was in a real school. At best I had some playtime outside of school hours with a few of my neighbors and there was things like Boy Scouts and tennis club. But it wasn't enough. It really stunted the development of my social skills. Throughout my 20s I was I having to learn a lot about how to make and maintain friendships and just like socialize and talk to people and date and such, things that most people would've done in their tweens and teens.

I guess one nice perk was I never really had to deal with bullying as a kid? But then when I encountered bullies as an adult (terrible roommates, colleagues, coworkers etc) I didn't have the skills to deal with them well.

I'm in my mid 30s now, and I still struggle with socializing but I'm better at it. I've been in a relationship for 4 years and I'm relatively content with my life at least.

15

"Think you can provide more resources and well thought out and efficiently applied curriculum than a centuries old and constantly corrected product of society that draws on every corner of society and hundreds of lifelong full-time employees whose entire lives revolve around hopefully improving society and giving the confident, respectful, and considerate qualities to children? That system isn't perfect and is compromise and resource-short hell... Why not give it a REAL half-assing and short-change your kids EVEN WORSE!"

13

I was homeschooled 4th through 8th grade. Only the actual book work was done at home tho. Still had other stuff that involved more hands on classes with other kids for a lotta shit. Choir, PE, drama, even science (I came 3rd in the 7th grade science decathalon for my balsa wood plane). The only book work also done with other kids was the stabdaridized testing thing.

I actually made more friends being homeschooled than I did when I went to regular school. Wasn't bullied, either. 🤷‍♂️

13

Big part of school is training on how to be socialized into society. Interact with people who are different than you. Homeschooling provides none of that.

11

I think it's a big mistake, but don't think 'the law' should get involved, either.

Include meals, that's a good incentive and will help a lot of kids that are fed total garbage at home.

if we can't feed children what are we even doing?

9

In my eyes, the two biggest problems are teaching competence and socialization. It's possible for a parent to adequately cover a wide range of subjects if they're quite intelligent themselves and they have good materials, but school teachers specialize in a few subjects and have plenty of experience teaching. Sure, a parent might have specific issues with parts of a curriculum, or think it isn't suitable for their child's intelligence, but that can be covered with spot checks and home study.

The bigger problem seems to be socialization. Sure, there are meetups and extracurriculars, but I don't think that can really replace being around dozens or hundreds of students your own age, navigating social situations shoulder-to-shoulder with your peers. These are critical skills, arguably more important than the bulk of the actual school curriculum, and it's much more difficult to build them later. We are social creatures, and we learn best through immersion. Like you, most of the homeschooled kids I knew were socially awkward.

I think much better than homeschooling is supplementing schoolwork with individualized study.

9

It's hubris and/or abuse, and should be illegal barring exceptional circumstances.

Public schools should be well funded.

Private schools should also be illegal.

8

Depends heavily on the parents. I had a few cousins who were home schooled for primary school so up until 10yr and they were 100% different to interact with and at the time I thought they were nerdy. But looking back it was because they were better socially developed and more mature than my friends and I. They were far more polite to kids (we were all polite to adults), smarter on topics we learnt in school (they didnt know about stuff like fighting and stealing from the local dairy and couldnt even ride a bike or swim) and more empathetic because they spent most of their time interacting with adults who'd correct bad behaviors while my friends and I would be socializing with kids unsupervised for most of the day.

But we all turned out fine and had good upbringings.

7

Every homeschooled person I've met has lacked all tact but YMMV. I haven't met anyone that was homschooled after leaving university so no clue if that improves over time.

7
lemmy.world

I think home schooling (and private schools) should be illegal. Everyone's kids should have to go through the same public education system. No exceptions. Public schools could use an influx of cash, and there are definitely edge cases that they don't handle well currently. We should advocate for making them better rather than finding an alternative.

7
qazreply
lemmy.world

Didn't Finland do this? (Ban private schools)

3

Not really, but they've regulated very similarly to public schools. They have to follow the national curriculum and can't charge tuition.

In practice I've only ever seen Waldorf schools as far as private goes. Maybe internatioal baccalaureate is private, too? I guess there might be some with focus on going pro athlete, too.

2

Homeschooling is rarely successful and deprives children of the chance to socialize and practice it. As well a lot of the people who do it use it as a method of indoctrination for religious reasons.

7

I think it is economically disadvantageous to occupy more people than is necessary to perform education activities. On average, trained professionals will do a better job at most things.

6

100% depends on the parents' education and if they believe in conspiracies.

For under-educated parents, your kids need to be in school.

If the parents graduated high-school and are well adjusted, rational people, I see no issue with homeschooling.

6

People say there are parents who do it for good reasons and do a good job, but I haven't seen that and find it hard to imagine as being common. The person I know who was homeschooled had his life destroyed by his parents, with homeschooling being the first of a series of horrifying blows to his mental state. He doesn't know the very basics of how society works or anything about math, science, history, or language, but he thinks he knows everything. He seems to think everything taught to kids in school is wrong or unimportant. But his Internet rabbit holes? Invaluable.

Ps he was homeschooled because his parents were religious extremists.

5

Very bad. Kids should all get equal education and barely and parents can properly provide a good enviorment and ways and knowledge to teach

5

My toddler is thriving in pre-school. We can't teach her how to be independent and socialise with other kids at home.

I can see a life situation where we would homeschool for a limited time. I'd expect both teaching parent and kid to do standardised testing to make sure the education is up to the national curriculum.

Home schooling should be be an excuse to not school, which it seems to be in some parts of the world.

5

I was homeschooled 2nd grade thru high school. Best thing to ever happen to me. I would not have been diagnosed with ADHD at the time because I suffered from hyperfocus, not hyperactivity. I would do one subject a day instead of constantly switching. Hundreds of field trips to historical sites, museums, science centers you name it, but I also had a lot of socializion with other homeschoolers through co-ops, meet ups, honor society as well as with other peers through scouts and community sports. I don't think of myself as being socially awkward at all and in fact in scouts I was unanimously voted in as chapter chief, then in community college was so popular won their equivalent to homecoming king. In college and uni I was the guy people came to to help them understand concepts if they didn't get the way the professor taught it. What I do notice as a difference from folks who were public schooled is that my personal bubble is larger and I didn't go stir crazy working from home during the pandemic. And I don't touch other people without their consent. It kinda weirds me out internally when people randomly touch my elbow or pat me on my back, especially when I'm focused and working but I'm working on accepting it. That no touch without consent has really helped me connect with folks with ASD and led to some great connections with people who never thought they could.

4

If there is one thing going to highschool in Texas taught me it's that Germany was communist during WW2.

Well, also that it may be good if you have time to NOT neglect the child and can get mentors/tutors to help them.

But even then they have to go to school at some point to learn socializing, no?

4

We home schooled my autistic son, and it was just what he needed, for lots of different reasons, physiological, sensory, structural, educational. While you judge homeschoolers as being "awkward", perhaps its exactly judgmental people like you that encourage some parents to home school.

4

I lived in an area with bad schools for about 4 years. I spent time in public school and a number of church schools. Religion fucked me up pretty good, but at least my parents weren't crazy religious nuts, so I at least got to come home to some normalcy. I didn't meet a lot of home school kids until way later. I have met several that are brilliantly well adjusted human beings, who were non-religious homeschoolers who were doing it for other reasons. I've met other people who think water boils because god wills it and sickness is caused by demons latching onto your unconfessed sins.

I'm generally against it in most circumstances, but I do think it depends largely on the intention of the parents. If we had better public schools, I think the amount of homeschoolers would naturally drop quite a bit.

4

I have neighbours homeschooling their kids, that ate similarly aged to mine. Sometimes we see them at the school playground on the weekend. The kids seem fine, the parents seem normal. They mentioned they take the kids to a weekly home school kids play date, and there is some sort of education resource worker that makes sure the kids are learning what they need to.

4

I went to school where I live and it was abysmal. My oldest 2 I homeschooled for a few years, eventually found a good school they could go to. Those 2 had a much better attitude towards school than the later ones who had to go from pre-K, (they felt more in control of their own education) and similar academic achievement in the end.

I sure as heck could not have homeschooled them through high school. And they did plenty of things with other kids, and more with mixed age groups than school kids do.

It's possible the kids you met who were awkward were homeschooled because they were so socially awkward and not the other way around. Mine can socialize circles around me, and I'd say the 2 who started later are more socially adept.

ETA 2 things. Homeschooling is well supported by the school district, kids get tested every year. And no we are not religious.

3

so I did one year of a homeschool co-op where we only had class on Fridays and the rest of the week was homework. I fucking LOVED IT.

Now, this particular program was pretty mediocre in terms of educational quality, mainly because it was religious nutjob oriented. I had the good fortune that my mom is a natural at teaching and I already knew how to learn stuff from the internet fairly well for a 7th grader in 2007 (identifying quality sources, etc.)

the main benefit to me was a VERY MUCH APPRECIATED escape from being mercilessly bullied at the traditional (well, also private religious, but still in-person daily) school I had been at for 5 years. Just being able to hit a hard reset on the group of kids I went to school with was already a huge social boost, and additionally, I only had to socially interact one day a week so even bad days weren't completely overwhelming.

If I hadn't had my mom to ensure I was actually learning stuff, maybe it wouldn't have been worth it. But fortunately I had her, so my educational progress didn't completely capsize and I finally started making some progress learning how to interact with kids my age somewhat normally, instead of just isolating myself

TL;DR one type of home schooling is a co-op that meets weekly or so, and that could have a lot of benefits if your kid is socially stunted from being bullied into oblivion

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Actually not too bad. I wasn't fully homeschooled, however, my old man augmented what school was teaching me. Basically he taught me mathematics, reading and writing. It kept me well ahead of my class. I had a good handle on fractions and so on at about grade two.

Then again, my old man was a physicist with a PhD.

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I briefly dated a girl who was homeschooled. She was a very nice girl, but holy fuck was she awkward in social settings. So many references that people our age should get would go right over her head. She was also from a well off family so when she didn't get these things, she kind of made it out to be like a class issue. "Oh that's from a rap song is it? We were never big on rap in our household." Well, we're you living under a rock? You don't know to the window, to the wall?

I will give her parents credit. She was very well read and learned to play a lot of instruments. She was very knowledgeable of the arts, but anything pop culture related was clearly a no go in her childhood/ young adulthood, and it made her quite dull.

Her brother was also fucking creepy man. I got real serial killer vibes from him. They were socially very similar, and I'm pretty sure the brother was closeted and gay. I had just assumed that he was out by the way he spoke, and acted, then one day she said something about how he needs a girlfriend. I said something along the lines of "are you sure he's looking for one?" And she got super offended and said she doesn't know why everyone thinks her brother is gay, and that men always hit on him which he supposedly hated. That could also just have been a lack of socialization and picking up on societal norms? Maybe he actually was straight, idk but he acted and looked very much the part. All in all the vibe was super off with them.

I think kids need to socialize to develop correctly. That girl, her brother and the handful of other homeschooled people I've met in life very much have reinforced that belief. I especially am worried about this current crop of anti vax types with little to no critical thinking skills home schooling their children. The HBO documentary - "This Place Rules" covered this briefly, and I worry for those children. I have a friend who has similar fringe beliefs and has talked about homeschooling his kids. I hope for that kids' sake they actually send him to school because if not, he'll be sounding like the kids in the video below.

https://youtu.be/Hdk3a9pI_jA

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It's fine.

Homeschooling or not isn't the issue. Plenty of kids who do go to school have a horrible education. I have known some perfect wonderful home schooled people, and some total weirdo religion nut job home schooled people.

The issue is the parents. And there isn't much you can do about shitty parents unless you remove the child from the home, which is typically only done under the case of severe neglect or abuse. The state doesn't and shouldn't have say about how people conduct their private affairs though and how you raise children is very much a private affair.

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lemmy.world

Just in case, homework != homeschooling. Homework is one of the most important/mandatory part of general common school process, I believe, that lets a person some private time to realize and memorize the subject in their own pace, and prepare for following public discussions and development.

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slrpnk.net

No, I'm talking about parents educating their children on academic topics outside of school hours. This is especially useful for very gifted children who may benefit from advanced martial; or for children with learning differences that may need additional instruction on topics other kids grasp intuitively; or for children with special interests that fall outside of what school has time to cover.

But it's my firm belief that the more schools fall into the trap of "teaching to the test" the more important it is that parents take an active role in teaching history, civics, philosophy, art, and practical skills, all subjects that more and more schools are leaving behind.

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I see. Thank you! That makes sense. This probably also proves my point of belief highlighting a school as a system mainly not for education but socialization in education. A system to educate in society and learn critical/common skills to socialize while learning together - realizing/educating together.

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I think there's a time and a place for home schooling, and a lot of it depends on the parents actually putting the effort into it.

I used to work with a guy who homeschooled his kids. For them, it was probably the best option for them. He wasnt the brightest bulb out there, but he did have pretty decent common sense, and was self-aware enough to know that he wasn't up to doing their lessons himself.

He also had some physical and mental health issues, and his wife was basically in the same boat and was pretty much totally unable to work. Their housing situation wasn't exactly secure, he made shit money, he often found himself out of work, and they had to move a few times over the 5 years I worked with him, usually couldn't afford to have a car etc.

So he had his kids enrolled in some sort of online homeschool/cyber charter school thing. And that probably gave them a bit of stability they wouldn't have had otherwise if they were constantly moving and needing to change schools. Probably also spared them from some bullying and such they would have gotten at schools for being poor.

And he did his best to make sure they were out socializing with other kids and experiencing the world to the best of his abilities. He wasn't keeping them isolated. If he could have afforded to live in a better neighborhood I suspect he would have been the type to let them run loose around the neighborhood as long as their school work and chores and such were done. And he certainly wasn't controlling them or telling them what to think outside of basic morality, he definitely was no saint in his youth and was a proud weirdo.

I'm not much of a kid-person, so I'm probably not the best one to make this judgement, but the couple of times I met them they seemed about as bright, happy, and well-adjusted as any kid out there.

On the flip side, my high school actually had a kid who was homeschooled who was caught planning a school shooting (on us.) His parents had pulled him out of our district to be home schooled because of "bullying," I never met the guy myself, he was a couple years younger than me, but from my friends who did know him, I get the impression that he was basically Cartman. He was severely overweight, but this is America, we had plenty of fat kids and overall didn't have a significant bullying problem, the reason people didn't like him was because he was a totally-unlikeable, racist, misogynistic asshole, and really if any kid ever deserved bullying it was probably him.

And I don't think we can exactly place the blame on home schooling, since the root problem with him started before that, and it's probably his parents to blame (some wild stuff came out about what his parents would do for him/let him do, it was a really weird case of somehow being both totally interested in supervising their child while also being major helicopter parents,) but i think that sort of isolation certainly didn't help.

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One of my best friends was homeschooled till highschool and he's one of the smartest people I've ever met. His mom was a 60's hippie and she didn't slack off in his schooling one bit. This was back in the 80's and early 90's, before the internet and all the resources it provides. He is a very independent thinker just like his mom. He taught me being smart was kind of badass. Learned so much from him.

I see it as a good thing if the parent is motivated and determined and above all has the time.

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It shouldn't be legal. Yup, some parents do a great job. I know a couple of kids who got a great education and are both STEM students, but I also know three girls who can't spell and are only capable of being married off. Or at least, that was the aim, only one of them consented to be married off and is now divorced.

And then there's the JW kid who came to work with us and was in complete shock when he heard about gay people.

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I was not home schooled but I wish I had been (but not by some crazy religious conservative family). I hated school from grade 6 onward. The social situation was absolute hell and the teachers barely cared at all. I dropped out at age 16 and finished high school in my 30s, then got into university and got my degree before 40.

My local public library runs programs every day for parents who homeschool their kids. They have librarians trained in ECE and they do all kinds of cool stuff. Everything from teaching kids how to research stuff in the library, to running science experiments, building stuff with 3D printers, exploring art and painting and poetry books, building robots and writing code to control them, learning about cultures and history and archaeology through loads of great books for kids.

Lots of kids attend these programs and they get to socialize with each other while learning cool stuff. It’s of course still on their parents to teach them how to read and write and do math, but all of the inspiration and resources are provided by the library (yes, including books on how to write essays and letters and all kinds of math and science books with problems and instruction covering the full school curriculum).

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lemmy.world

I went to public school my entire childhood, and I'm awkward as fuck. Add that to your anecdote list

There might be something to it, but I'd need to see receipts.

Mostly, though, I'm suspicious of the motives and abilities (lack thereof) among the people who really go for homeschooling.

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I was homeschooled and have severe social anxiety and no social skills, whereas two of my siblings having exceptional social/people skills. It's not black and white, and the bad outcomes aren't inevitable, but I myself would never encourage anyone to do homeschooling.

My own parents' motives and abilities were not aligned with good educational outcomes.

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piefed.social

Homeschooling is an oxymoron unless your legal guardian is a trained teacher who commit themselves completely to their trade and teaches the standard curriculum 8 hours a day including PE, shop, and regular excursions Monday through Friday for ten months per year for 12 years.

Also you need a family of about 20 or so siblings who take these home classes with you because that's integral to developing essential interpersonal skills at a critical psychological window during childhood development.

There is no home "schooling", you either go to school or you don't go to school, those are the options.

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for me, theres no reason a child cant go on the internet and learn things all day

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lemmy.world

I think it's a shitty thing to do long term unless your child has disabilities (in which case a school accomodating them is better).

Send your kid where they choose to go, it'll probably be school where their friends are.

I, already being pretty awkward as a child, cannot imagine trying to unlearn awkwardness after suddenly changing to public schooling. Might even have the opposite problem, showing too much energy when interacting with people i don't know well.

Definitely DEFINITELY don't do it for primary (elementary) school age.

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a lot of homeschooling ends before secondary school. 6-7% of kids are home schooled for primary school.

only half of them go through high school, only 3% of high schooled are home schooled.

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My experience is the same. I think it can possibly work but most who do it are not competent enough to do it. Likely those that are are likely to competent to have the time. Even if you are you realize you need several people like yourself with similar aged kids to cover various basis which at that point is called a school. At some point to the subjects get advanced enough that its going to be increasingly hard for a single parent to cover them. I can say I sub for high school and there is a reason teachers a subjective specific at that point. Its one thing to do various curriculums for various classes in the same subject but keeping up with half a dozen completely different curriculums. You end up leaning on the preset things that basically the people are trying to avoid with public school but now your kid is losing different perspectives, the social aspects, and the challenges of having to figure things out for themselves. Add to this that very early education benefits massively from socialization and is more about that. So like pres school. kindergarten. you need other kids. maybe you can do 1-3 and utilize the public school things. like bring your kid over for recess or clubs and sports if they have them (this is a big reason most peoples home schooling falls flat you sorta need this stuff). maybe you can do 4 or 5 but even junior high they need to start making decisions for subjects and learning to learn from strangers and likley one adult is not going to cut it. Honestly they would be better off putting the effort to working with their kid after school.

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Better than sending kids to daytime prison, but still less than ideal, since homeschooled kids (in most countries that allow it), still need to learn temporarily memorise at those useless school subjects, so instead I advocate unschooling.

PS: I understand my opinion is unpopular and politically charged and I really don't want to argue over this, (since I spent most my young and adult life arguing over this), so I will probably not reply to to replies, since it makes me emotionally unease.

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Wonderful day!

And again... I am sorry, but... why not just read about it, like... professional researches from both modern and ancient times, existing centuries... Why ask people to invest their priceless finite life time to, again, respond with a yet another set of written messages for the case of multiple expert/professional investigations/analyses around the planet?

It's an incredibly responsible question for the parents/supervisors, and there are serious researches done for it. The answer affects the whole future of the child/person they will depend on all their ongoing life... and, hopefully, their own children...

A school is not a home, in general, I believe. And "homeschooling" is not homework.
One of main the main reason a school is exists is - socialization.
That is, gaining skills of creating social connections, learn to educate yourself and deal with interruptions and distractions in social environments with so different people, worldviews, and beliefs, in attempt to find yourself and your own identity alongside other people.

Since isn't the most important reason for these to help a person to socialize and get used to crowded or accompanied environments, to respect, care, tolerate, or live and do their research within other ultimately infinitely magnificent unique people?

It's for the parents/family to decide, since every single child/person is different.
I do normally stand against "homeschooling" ("wetdrying") and push towards a socialized organization like University, School, Kindergarten etc.

The following is an excerpt from earlier discussions I've just found in personal notes (no AI/LLM):

Socialization process has a significant impact on learning, which is a basic requirement for both the organization and the role performance of the newcomer to the organization. It is considered very important for a new member to socialize organizationally and professionally. This paper focuses on revealing the process of organizational and professional socialization of academicians.

Source

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Friendships can positively impact students' academic performance and grade point average (GPA) by providing emotional support and reducing stress, thereby leading to improved focus and better concentration on studies.

Peer connections and friendships often result in collaborative learning and the exchange of academic ideas, improving comprehension and retention of course materials, ultimately leading to higher GPAs...

Academic success is assessed by gauging academic performance in the form of grade point average (GPA), test scores, and overall academic achievement, as well as the measurement of academic motivation and the level of persistence among students in school or college.

Forming friendships with their peers is an important aspect of adolescents' and young adults' lives, and significant research has been conducted on how friends impact academic performance and motivation. Specifically, academic achievement and motivation have been found to positively correlate with belonging to a peer group.

Currently, young people's need for a sense of community is particularly high, leading individuals to spend more time with their friends, feel more comfortable around friends than they do with family, and worry about how their friends will perceive them and how the local social milieu will view them.

Researchers' concerns about how social networking sites affect different aspects of life, including education, are not surprising. Academic achievement has been linked favorably to social connections or peer interactions in the past.

Source

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Of course, in a large population, there are going to be some success stories. But we have zero evidence that, on average, homeschooled students are doing well. There’s actually no way to learn how they do on average because homeschoolers don’t exist as a visible population due to the lack of regulation.

There are claims being made in what is really junk social science that homeschooled students do just as well as kids in regular schools. But there is no justification for those claims. People making those claims are looking at a subset of the most successful homeschooled students.

They’re looking at the ones who actually apply to college and go to college, and are assessing how they do in college compared to kids coming from public schools. Those studies tell us nothing about how well homeschoolers do on average.

Source: Harvard

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Most of the time when I overheard these women talking about their educational choice, and why they were doing it, the reasons seemed to have one thing in common.

Can you guess what it was? Fear.

Source

Related: Why homeschooling is bad for kids (Debunking the myths...)

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