Absolutely! Turmoil comes in waves, and after each major challenge, we come out a little better than we were.
We've survived worse than this and eventually the world will look back at what was happening now and think, "Sure am glad we aren't like THAT anymore!"
It doesn't feel like hope. It feels like cold inevitability or statistical probability. Like, some days you hit all green lights, other days they're all red, but at the end of the day, you still did the same shit you do every day.
Everything changes, but somehow it's all the same.
Last year I was feeling really down on people and how the world was going. I signed up for a volunteer gig to get outside and be a little productive.
I mainly expected the work to be satisfying, which it was, but my biggest surprise was how great being around like-minded people that also wanted to make our community better felt.
It feels more like hanging out with friends, even though we're busy as hell, and not like a job because we're all there by choice, and we get to see on a daily basis how our efforts are helping. It may only be a drop in the bucket, but it's not as though we're the only group working for our cause.
It's one of the most satisfying choices I've ever made in my life, and if you can find time (my commitment is 4 hours a week for half the year) it may improve your outlook on things if you're feeling like everything around you is bad.
Yes, 100%. Go talk to people. Travel. Trust. Love. The internet, social media, the news are as real as lord of the rings, or fortnite.
I have almost never met someone evil or truly unreasonable. I have of course left places that were not working for me. People trying to rope me into status games I didn't care for etc, or pressure me to do stuff I didn't want to do. Sometimes it's unpleasant, even painful. But not remotely something that can counterbalance all the great interactions and great people I have met. Heck, it's doesn't compete even just the kindness complete strangers have given me.
Catch people who do you harm in a different situation, years later and talk about it, and the same people are often reasonable, open to change, open to talk about why they do what they do.
You don't have to forgive them. But for me, it helps.
In my defense it was the start of a new millennium, Internet seemed like it would democratize knowledge access and speed up development of sustainable technologies in all fields. Cold war was behind us, so it seemed like history was done and we could enjoy some stability after a bloody XX century.
Although, you shouldn't have faith in those in charge even on a good day - especially if you can even slightly influence who gets to be in charge (by voting, for example - if you have a right to vote, you have a responsibility to vote well).
For sure. The people I meet are kind, caring, and responsible. Every time I start to get depressed about humanity, I turn off the internet and go hang with real people.
Why would I put my faith in humanity, the most violent and destructive creature in the animal kingdom? There is an ideal beyond the survival animal we are, an imagination of how much better we could be. That's what I put my faith in. That's the kind of world I want to work toward.
That sounds like having faith in humanity with extra steps. I'm also gonna push back on that "most violent and destructive" part. We're capable of more destruction than any other species, but we are also the only species capable of showing restraint. We've gone 80 years without using a nuclear bomb in war. Your cat would launch a nuke to kill a mouse.
I didn't want to beg the question so I'll put a fine point on it for the sake of understanding: what I believe in is what I would call "divinity", the ability to imagine something other than the way things are, and strive to make it a reality. Humanity is still coming up and we're doing good in places, but our fate is still dictated by the fearful, ignorant, hateful, and violent among us. We won't be able to reach our potential until those kinds of humans go extinct.
I have faith in people, but not in humanity as a whole. Our governments are run by some of the most disgusting people imaginable, politicians, who are controlled by even worse people, the rich.
just an example: I never really had any of my peers stand up for me when I get bullied in school... I doubt that in the adult world, others are gonna step in since its even more dangerous than k-12 so people are just gonna be bystanders while I get beaten in broad daylight (hypothetical, haven't actually been assulted as an adult yet)...
maybe if people stood up to bullies more, I'd have more faith, but as of now, I feel so alone... even family feels very cold to me... but I feel even more scared to leave and be alone out in the world... like a "the enemy you know" type of thing...
As a whole, yes. We've managed to make it this far, and have strived for progress the whole time. On an individual level, absolutely not.
Based on my own experiences and readings, I'd guesstimate that a good 10% of people are genuinely evil, and another 50% are morons. I would absolutely not bet on those odds when trying to get help. Still, that leaves another 40% who are decent enough to want good, and smart enough to act on it.
I don't think its changed significantly, but I also do think the impacts (good and bad) have become more far-reaching, and the bad esspecially has become more visible.
We've always had a generally evil ruling class, and that evil always ranged from "just" stealing from the populus to genocide and torturing people for fun (just as today). Unlike historically, we're just aware of all of it, whereas a serf would barely know what their own lord was like, nonetheless one on the other side of the world. We've also always had those willing to work to build a better future. In the past, this was mostly limited to giving food and money, usually organized by religions organizations, and this continues, but we also now have thousands of other non-profits and tools, made and maintained by talented people who just want a better world. Think of all the people making educational videos, articles, software and more and giving it away for cheap or for free. Things like Wikipedia, VLC, and others would have caved to the rich and powerful decades ago if not for the fact that they're committed to making the world better.
I realize now that there’s two interpretations here; faith in humanity’s goodness, and faith in humanity’s survival.
I like your take—that it’s probably the same set of people but we’re aware of more of people globally. I’d say since systems heavily shape people, it depends how those evolve over time. Hard to say whether we’re better or worse off than before in terms of systems mostly shaping good or bad traits in people. Total shot on the dark but I think on the whole we have better systems. The historical trend line looks positive in the equitable and empowering direction.
For survival I unfortunately think the probability decreases over time as we command more energy and climate altering technology. Fewer people than ever can do more damage than ever. I think there will always be humans on earth, but they may have to restart civilization. Ugh.
In waves.
Mostly despair, but then I’ll see some Anarchist shit helping others fight parasitic institutions or decentralization getting a little more traction. Little wins against the oppressors. Renewable energy and batteries getting better and better. People using critical thinking or proper logic.
It just takes an example of the good fight to ignite the kindling within for me. But it’s tough out here.
Faith is irrational confidence based upon inappropriate evidence. I deal in trust, and it's mostly gone. The minimal pockets of rationality and common decency are shrinking and we're headed to a right wing hate-based dystopia from which I don't see a way to escape
I know understand Dr. Manhattan saying that a inert rock in Mars is more interesting than a chain of self replicating amino acids which just want to replicate themselves.
Humanity's potential...yes.
Humanity's actuality...no.
No.
Absolutely! Turmoil comes in waves, and after each major challenge, we come out a little better than we were.
We've survived worse than this and eventually the world will look back at what was happening now and think, "Sure am glad we aren't like THAT anymore!"
Hope is a valuable thing, and the feeling of having none isn't something I would wish on anyone. Hold onto your hope tightly.
Weird. You saying that made me think.
It doesn't feel like hope. It feels like cold inevitability or statistical probability. Like, some days you hit all green lights, other days they're all red, but at the end of the day, you still did the same shit you do every day.
Everything changes, but somehow it's all the same.
Last year I was feeling really down on people and how the world was going. I signed up for a volunteer gig to get outside and be a little productive.
I mainly expected the work to be satisfying, which it was, but my biggest surprise was how great being around like-minded people that also wanted to make our community better felt.
It feels more like hanging out with friends, even though we're busy as hell, and not like a job because we're all there by choice, and we get to see on a daily basis how our efforts are helping. It may only be a drop in the bucket, but it's not as though we're the only group working for our cause.
It's one of the most satisfying choices I've ever made in my life, and if you can find time (my commitment is 4 hours a week for half the year) it may improve your outlook on things if you're feeling like everything around you is bad.
Humanity? Sure.
Human institutions? Less and less.
That's good - we shouldn't have blind faith in institutions. Remaining skeptical and keeping them in check helps fix things.
Gone. Reduced to atoms.
Yes
Yes, 100%. Go talk to people. Travel. Trust. Love. The internet, social media, the news are as real as lord of the rings, or fortnite.
I have almost never met someone evil or truly unreasonable. I have of course left places that were not working for me. People trying to rope me into status games I didn't care for etc, or pressure me to do stuff I didn't want to do. Sometimes it's unpleasant, even painful. But not remotely something that can counterbalance all the great interactions and great people I have met. Heck, it's doesn't compete even just the kindness complete strangers have given me.
Catch people who do you harm in a different situation, years later and talk about it, and the same people are often reasonable, open to change, open to talk about why they do what they do.
You don't have to forgive them. But for me, it helps.
"Still"? That would imply that I ever had faith in humanity.
Yes. And always will.
Nah.
The good part is that I won't be around much longer to see it all go to hell in a handbasket.
The bad part is that my kids will.
Sorry about that, kids, I honestly did the best I could.
Technically you could have not had kids. But I get it, I’m in the same boat!
In my defense it was the start of a new millennium, Internet seemed like it would democratize knowledge access and speed up development of sustainable technologies in all fields. Cold war was behind us, so it seemed like history was done and we could enjoy some stability after a bloody XX century.
But yeah, I should have known better.
We could also be wrong that war will break out and that climate change won’t be surmountable. I think we’re all hoping that’s the case!
I hope you are right.
Yes, just not the ones in charge.
Although, you shouldn't have faith in those in charge even on a good day - especially if you can even slightly influence who gets to be in charge (by voting, for example - if you have a right to vote, you have a responsibility to vote well).
I resent how this question implies I ever had faith in humanity.
For sure. The people I meet are kind, caring, and responsible. Every time I start to get depressed about humanity, I turn off the internet and go hang with real people.
Still?
I have faith that it will eat itself
Why would I put my faith in humanity, the most violent and destructive creature in the animal kingdom? There is an ideal beyond the survival animal we are, an imagination of how much better we could be. That's what I put my faith in. That's the kind of world I want to work toward.
That sounds like having faith in humanity with extra steps. I'm also gonna push back on that "most violent and destructive" part. We're capable of more destruction than any other species, but we are also the only species capable of showing restraint. We've gone 80 years without using a nuclear bomb in war. Your cat would launch a nuke to kill a mouse.
I didn't want to beg the question so I'll put a fine point on it for the sake of understanding: what I believe in is what I would call "divinity", the ability to imagine something other than the way things are, and strive to make it a reality. Humanity is still coming up and we're doing good in places, but our fate is still dictated by the fearful, ignorant, hateful, and violent among us. We won't be able to reach our potential until those kinds of humans go extinct.
Humanity isn't the problem, it's the growing concentration of power
Humanity is too broad a grouping
Never had. How can you have faith in a species which puts most effort towards advancing weapons to destroy as much as possible of it's own species.
Can't lose what you never had
I have faith in people, but not in humanity as a whole. Our governments are run by some of the most disgusting people imaginable, politicians, who are controlled by even worse people, the rich.
idk...
just an example: I never really had any of my peers stand up for me when I get bullied in school... I doubt that in the adult world, others are gonna step in since its even more dangerous than k-12 so people are just gonna be bystanders while I get beaten in broad daylight (hypothetical, haven't actually been assulted as an adult yet)...
maybe if people stood up to bullies more, I'd have more faith, but as of now, I feel so alone... even family feels very cold to me... but I feel even more scared to leave and be alone out in the world... like a "the enemy you know" type of thing...
like its a "kill or be killed" type of world
-Philly, PA, USA
People from other places might feel differently
As a whole, yes. We've managed to make it this far, and have strived for progress the whole time. On an individual level, absolutely not.
Based on my own experiences and readings, I'd guesstimate that a good 10% of people are genuinely evil, and another 50% are morons. I would absolutely not bet on those odds when trying to get help. Still, that leaves another 40% who are decent enough to want good, and smart enough to act on it.
Do you think those proportions got worse? Or that the severity of evilness or idiocy increased since the past?
I have my doubts. I think the 40% (it’s probably even lower) has taken us this far, and has a chance to continue.
I don't think its changed significantly, but I also do think the impacts (good and bad) have become more far-reaching, and the bad esspecially has become more visible.
We've always had a generally evil ruling class, and that evil always ranged from "just" stealing from the populus to genocide and torturing people for fun (just as today). Unlike historically, we're just aware of all of it, whereas a serf would barely know what their own lord was like, nonetheless one on the other side of the world. We've also always had those willing to work to build a better future. In the past, this was mostly limited to giving food and money, usually organized by religions organizations, and this continues, but we also now have thousands of other non-profits and tools, made and maintained by talented people who just want a better world. Think of all the people making educational videos, articles, software and more and giving it away for cheap or for free. Things like Wikipedia, VLC, and others would have caved to the rich and powerful decades ago if not for the fact that they're committed to making the world better.
I realize now that there’s two interpretations here; faith in humanity’s goodness, and faith in humanity’s survival.
I like your take—that it’s probably the same set of people but we’re aware of more of people globally. I’d say since systems heavily shape people, it depends how those evolve over time. Hard to say whether we’re better or worse off than before in terms of systems mostly shaping good or bad traits in people. Total shot on the dark but I think on the whole we have better systems. The historical trend line looks positive in the equitable and empowering direction.
For survival I unfortunately think the probability decreases over time as we command more energy and climate altering technology. Fewer people than ever can do more damage than ever. I think there will always be humans on earth, but they may have to restart civilization. Ugh.
In waves. Mostly despair, but then I’ll see some Anarchist shit helping others fight parasitic institutions or decentralization getting a little more traction. Little wins against the oppressors. Renewable energy and batteries getting better and better. People using critical thinking or proper logic.
It just takes an example of the good fight to ignite the kindling within for me. But it’s tough out here.
I don't think I ever had
well, I generally think most people are better than me, and I'm still here.
I feel people are really either stupid, naive, or evil
There's a tiny sliver of people that I have faith in, in there
Zero. I have unshakable belief that we're collective morons with self-destruction baked into our DNA.
"Still?"
Never did. Still don't.
What do you mean 'still'?
Faith is irrational confidence based upon inappropriate evidence. I deal in trust, and it's mostly gone. The minimal pockets of rationality and common decency are shrinking and we're headed to a right wing hate-based dystopia from which I don't see a way to escape
no.
no.
No... Not really, but I like to pretend that I do.
I don't. I do.
https://youtu.be/wTF6ZkLM9eI
Time to give this a watch m8. Never give in.
FYI, it's geoblocked, so if you are outside the US, switch ur VPN over to the USA to watch it.
.......well that is unfortunate humanity is cooked haha
Nope. Not even in living beings at this points.
I know understand Dr. Manhattan saying that a inert rock in Mars is more interesting than a chain of self replicating amino acids which just want to replicate themselves.
There's a couple. Been a long time for everyone else though.
The humans worth placing your faith in are not the ones calling the shots.
Humanity under capitalism is doomed. The only way we survive is if this AI bubble pops and burns capitalism to the ground with it.
One can hope.
Yes.
We haven't made it this far just by sheer luck.
Barely, but yes
It's not worse than before.
"Before" had WW2 and WW1. Now it's that but with nukes and the Internet.
Life is cyclical