YSK that a general strike is one of the most effective ways to push for change. There is a general strike in the works across the US for this Friday.
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ca/post/59378754
The calls for a nationwide (US) shutdown this Friday (Jan 30) are growing louder
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I'm all for protesting in any way possible but a general strike in three days seems really ambitious. Most strikes take months to arrange since people will need to stock up on food and household items or they risk the strike ending before the strikers get their demands.
These kinds of strikes are intended to be short term, it's a single day strike. It's not about stopping work until demands are met, yet. It's about proving to those in charge that there are enough people in agreement that the next step will be much more costly if things don't change.
Sometimes they are smart enough to get the message, other times they either think they're smarter because they are narcissistic or inherently will win because of money.
At this level though if you actually manage to coordinate an effective strike day, what you usually end up with is hundreds or thousands of smaller organizations that can't survive and prolonged strike siding with the strikers and getting changes made, because the cockweasels at the top still rely on the smaller companies they stepped on to get there.
That's how I see this as well. It's a shot across the bow much like the one day strike in MN.
Many people in the US have no experience participating in this sort of thing. I hope that this is a wake up call for the citizenry as much as for the corporations and oligarchs running the country.
The problem with a "shot across the bow" is that to the enemy it can just look like you are missing and wasting ammo.
Yes, a warning shot does rely somewhat on the intelligence of the opponent. But that is their problem.
In this analogy, though, if you even get 10% participation in a one-day cessation of economic activity, that is something the companies and therefore the governments notice. It is not something they want to repeat, or get more popular participation. It is in fact better than a warning shot in that respect. It is an attack on the money.
I think you are ascribing a lot more importance to 10% than economists and capitalists do.
Nearly 60% of of day to day spending is by the top percentage of the wealthiest. I am trying to be a realist here. The bottom 60% of Americans make up about 20% of the spending, 10% participation would be about a 4% change in profit which recent Tariffs have been higher and more impactful.
It is not a good idea to keep purposefully missing while the enemy isn't wasting their shots. Cause they are landing most of theirs.
You're talking about a boycott. A strike is people refusing to work
And yet most of the comments in here are talking about doctors appointments and going out for dinner. I am confusing it but it seems I'm not alone in that.
We are not in the right crowd to organize a strike, which would be better with actual business owners involved, but I understand we should get what we can.
Why is it so bad to take an honest look at what we are trying to accomplish and our methodology? I thought Lemmy liked science and actual data. I'm peer reviewing this so we can adjust the methodology and try to focus better.
I want to succeed I am just not gonna pretend we get there without effort.
As far as I understood it's supposed to be a one day strike but repeating every friday which is a great way to build up the necessary momentum.
How much food do you need to eat in 24 hours that this is a concern for you?
That’s not the concern. A 24 hour strike isn’t a strike. That’s a protest. Most strike last for days or weeks because you want to get something out of the strike.
A general strike doesn't last for weeks. A strike and a general striker different things.
Striking workers are trying to change business decision, but if everyone participates in a general strike it causes enough damage in a day that it's effective. The threat is you'll do it again if things don't improve.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnipeg_general_strike
What's the point? Anything you delay doing that day we will made up with spending in the future.
These strikes don't really work. If you're stocking up in anticipation then you're not really striking because you still contributed a day earlier.
A better option would to just go local.
General strikes are illegal in the US. The people coordinating them could be arrested. Also, jobs can fire workers on the spot for participating in them, even if the workers are part of a union and the union want to participate. There are no protections for this. Not to mention, national guards have been sent in to shut down general strikes in the past. There's a reason they never happen. The likelihood of one ever succeeding is highly unlikely considering the current situation. Doing it multiple days? You realize most people live paycheck to paycheck? Nobody wants to tell their kids they're going to be homeless.
It's not illegal to strike on a date with other people. It's illegal for unions to call for a "general strike" because it's considered them calling a strike on behalf of other non-union employees for other businesses.
Not always, (though yes, it would probably be likely for many people) since they can use things like sick/vacation days conveniently timed right, or if they're backed up by a union, they might have a contract that helps to prevent at-will firing without certain specific causes, excluding striking.
However, if enough people strike, it's kind of hard to enforce coming into work via firings, as it's similar to if an entire unionized company goes on strike. What are you gonna do? Fire every single worker and shut down for good the next day because the only person running every single operation is the remaining CEO?
As long as the union doesn't say "this is a general strike" and just says "we are striking on this date for better working conditions", and that date happens to be the same day other unions are striking, it's legal. There is no law preventing different unions from striking on the same dates, and it would take very long for any legal process to try and make that claim before the strike has already occurred.
This is the most likely outcome in my opinion. However, it's still kind of hard to actually enforce the end of a general strike. It's one thing to arrest someone, or to stop them from doing a given thing, but it's another to forcibly remove people from their homes and make them work no matter their condition or reason.
Essentially, I'm saying it'd be messy.
This is the biggest hurdle, though there is a degree to which it can be mitigated, at least for a little while. For example, there are a lot of people with backyard and community gardens, small businesses with stockpiles that are willing to support their community as we've seen with the current situation in Minnesota, not to mention that if the situation got bad enough you'd probably just see people stealing from their nearest billionaire-owned store because fuck it, why not screw them over more?
To clarify, I'm not like, disputing your actual overarching thesis here, or saying a general strike is easy or likely to succeed, I'm just saying it's not entirely impossible :)
By all means, people should try. Not saying people shouldn't. The mountain to overcome fascism isn't going to get any smaller as we dive deeper into it. And a strike wouldn't even have to happen in every area or even every state. It just has to happen enough to shut stuff down across the US. I just worry that most things tend to start out small and grow with time. For all of the reasons I stated, this can't start out small. It has to start loud and strong. If it starts out small, it will get crushed in a way that scares people away from trying again.
American workers live in such a different world. Not once in my 34 years on earth would it have occurred to me to go on sick leave or spend one of my holidays on strike. Absolutely insane.
People have to realize the alternative is having their kids growing up in a fascist regime, where they can be murdered on the streets without consequences simply because some "regime official" is having a bad day.
I am not saying it's easy but it also won't get any more easier when people don't act now. In the end stage people trying to resist the regime will be insta killed or worse. Now you can still talk to like minded people and organize. Tell them you want to strike but are afraid of the consequences, maybe they will offer help.
This is fucked up beyond belief. Strikes should be a right for every single worker
Apparently this just applies to unions and federal workers, though. At least as it was written in the Taft–Hartley Act of 1947. But yeah, the fact that it's illegal for unions to call for general strikes is indeed fucked up beyond belief. Unions are an essential part of organizing strikes.
Yes, that's why it takes months to organize a normal strike, let alone a general strike. A one day strike isn't a stike, it's a protest.
The difficult thing is people need to organize it outside of work. If management gets wind of that kind of stuff, they can fire and replace any workers they know are participating long before it actually happens.
That's highly illegal if we're going by the NLRA.
Now whether those companies get a wrist slap for firing people in today's political climate? That's a different question entirely but firing someone for striking or organizing a strike has been illegal for almost a century.
In a right to work state, they don't need to give a reason. Any rules against firings are pretty much unenforceable, and the company is considered innocent unless proven guilty.
They don't need to give a reason but if a company fires someone who is organizing a strike and that person has been a decent employee then the labor board is going to side with the person, not the company since it's obvious why they were fired. Amazon keeps getting in trouble for this exact thing. Which is why amazon et al are trying to get the NLRB dismantled.
Right to work laws make it so workers in a union shop don't need to join the union.
Are you thinking of at-will employment? It's a common mixup.
While that's true, every state except for Montana has at-will employment. Despite that, unions often negotiate contract requirements that effectively guarantee job security. But if you live in a right to work state, chances are there isn't even an option to join a union at your job, giving you no means of collective bargaining.
Going homeless at the same time as many others opens the possibility to make communities helping each other out (food, protection, communication).
I know, it is wishful thinking, but building such communities in a peaceful way during a general strike with enough time is better than a sudden brutal civil war scenario, I think.
You won’t get food easy if you have to fear getting shot as soon as you leave your house and they can’t run companies efficiently only with AI and MAGA workers.
That is a very short amount of time to organize a nation.
It’s also ineffective in the short term as a strike, because the rich will just wait it out. One day of slightly lower productivity isn’t going to grind things to a halt. What makes a strike powerful is that it continues until grievances are remedied. A true strike takes months or even years to organize, and it takes a lot of unionized money to keep people from going broke during an extended strike. After all, the strikers need to be able to wait out the rich and powerful. Those union dues are largely to allow the union to pay striking workers.
However, with all of this being said, this kind of thing is good for normalizing strikes. America largely doesn’t strike. But if you can establish a new normal for protests, it makes the larger things much much easier to organize in the long term.
This sounds like a wildcat strike to me. Not perhaps the most effective means to an end, but important when there's no other outlet. A good outcome may be establishing better unions. The mere threat of a strike should have capital shaking in their boots.
I hear a lot about IWW. All hype?
Yeah, I guess they have to start somehow.
This is what I commented elsewhere. We dont even need organized strikes. We need organized tech classes to get the general public out of the hands of the technofacist oligarchy. The reason they have power is 98% of the population is addicted to x, fb, insta, and being spied on their google phones 24/7 for ad revenue and surveillance, and people are fucking stupid about technology. They have no idea the billionaire corporations glean off them from their ignorant use of their phones.
If people keep striking every Friday it will be noticed. Sure, it won't be as impactful as striking every day, but it starts a good foundation to build on while having some immediate impact.
It doesn't make sense to me, I honestly doubt retailers will even notice.
Everyone who does actually participate will just buy their stuff the day before or the day after.
An ongoing boycott of a specific vendor makes much more sense to me. Easier for everyone to do, and more impactful.
Read up. Last Friday was no purchases, this friday is no work and no purchases. This is not a short term thing (unless we decide to have a general strike with clear demands soon.
I am happy to hear it's supposed to be a regular thing. This can lead to great momentum. Reminds me of fridays for future which became a huge worldwide movement (sadly disrupted and essentially killed by Covid).
Oops, I didn’t realize last Friday was a no purchase day. I only spent $5 at a secondhand store, so the spirit was still there.
I bet the second hand store owner used that $5 to go and buy a baseball bat to beat up puppies and seals. You're a monster, I hope you know that.
Ysk, this isn't a general strike. It's a protest, at best.
It's not a general strike if it doesn't come from the Generél region of France. Otherwise it's just sparkling absenteeism.
Obviously its both
A general strike is much longer.
Do you have a copy of the rule book by chance?
With the amount of indoctrination that has happened in the US, it makes sense that most don't know how to adequately protest or strike.
At this point in time, it finally appears people are slowly understanding protests as a means to signify discontent. However, the line remains blury as to what is a protest and what is a strike.
A general strike should leave a long lasting mark resulting from halting of the economy - but a single day will only reinforce the fact that strikes which are effectively just protests aren't going to work.
https://www.mlreadinghub.org/study-materials/reading-list
They should strike on a Tuesday instead.
I'm all for this. My Tuesday meetings are the most annoying.
Why?
Taco Tuesday!
Freedom Friday is the same day
honestly where the fuck r the unions? we need them
They were captured decade ago, first by organized crime and then by the industries. Unions have never modernized for the digital age.
There has also been a huge, prolonged campaign of union busting specifically to weaken their power in these political scenarios
But that has been happening since unions first started, when they burned strikers and their families alive.
literally illegal in the US for unions to call for a general strike, its insane
It is and I wasn't saying this in expectation of them calling for a strike right out of left field like this but unions have political weight and i haven't seen any union leaders stepping up and speaking out in a meaningful way.
Unions are made of normal people and the normal US citizen pretends to be a millionaire thus doesn't need to be in a union.
Also the ratio of people that want to be in a union to positions available in a union is like 1000:1
You can just join a union, they don't have a wait list...
Tell that to all the people who’ve been on Union wait lists for years.
https://www.iww.org/membership/ It's literally the easiest thing in the world to become a member. There's strength in numbers, so please join.
How will this help me get off the waitlist and into a union job?
This will get you to be a union member and you will be able to bargain collectively.
The high paying jobs will come once enough people are organized in your industry. You can't have it the other way around.
In my area the only union jobs are government employees and a few contractors that contract with the government. My wife has a union job but they're almost impossible to get. I've never been able to land one.
I'm curious what made US companies that much more successful at destroying unions than the companies in my home, Denmark. It's not like companies weren't trying their hardest to fight unions in the early 1900's. People died at the strikes and protests.
what you do is join a union independently of your job
Good question. NLRB would be nice to have, too.
Let's get it boys and girls. I'm ready
finally americans doing something that works
keep striking
Is it better to skip work entirely or go and just goof off? Probably the former?
My European mind can't comprehend this. Strikes are a right for every single worker, even the most unprivileged ones (with very few exceptions for public safety reasons)
To elaborate on the situation in The Netherlands: You can only strike when certain conditions are met. In short, you use it as a final measurement to force your employer to change something if other less radical measurements were ineffective.
In this case, most employers have absolutely no influence over whatever ICE does, so I'd highly doubt a strike would be 'allowed' for something like this over here in The Netherlands.
It's illegal not to show up to work? I mean on the picket line maybe. But a general strike is more about not showing up than demonstrating. What are they going to send soldiers house to house and force you to go to work at the point of a bayonet?
Employees striking illegally or unauthorized can first of all have their pay withheld (which sounds obvious, but is very rare in The Netherlands). Second of all, they can be forced to pay damages to their employer. And as an extreme measure, their employment contract may be terminated without being able to collect government unemployment benefits later.
That does all seem rather plausible ways to get fucked. If the strike was really general they couldn't do that to everyone, but if it fizzled out they could. At least your government is not trying to create the fourth reich at the moment, albeit they are sucking enough that the 4th reich aligned far right can run as reform on fake populism and win, then all bets are off.
Like nurses, firefighters... but that's exactly fucking why you have multi-industry unions. So when nurses need a raise, engineers can strike on their behalf.
This is why every time deregulation in general comes up, I suggest we start with the Taft-Hartley act.
Holy shit, even overriding a presidential veto for that shit. Imagine if Congress had balls like that today.
The last time was with Trump
But even in Europe you can get backlash for it especially in a very small business. That's why it only really works when it's organised and everyone is participating.
So like... a general strike? :)
Where in Europe? General strikes are illegal in Germany
I'm from Italy. Here general strikes are common. I know that France also goes strong on strikes.
I'm surprised they're illegal in Germany. You should fight to change that.
They should have a general strike demanding the right to general strikes.
I don't see how it's enforceable, you don't have to picket, just no one shows up for work at that same time, what are they going to do?
Technically they are not illegal here - they are just not protected under the (very strong) strike protection laws.
So workers in Germany could go into general strikes but they would not be covered by strike law and therefore just absent from work. Which of course is an issue - but in case of a proper general strike, what are they gonna do, fire everyone? Especially in times when there are countless positions open?
So one would only get into trouble work wise,but not otherwise - one would not get arrested, cannot get sued (besides a very limited scope worklaw wise),etc. Only certain kind of civil servants (similar but not as common as the Pubblico Impiego in Italy) will get in trouble if they go on strike. E.g. cops, fireman, teachers, municpial clerks (but not muncipial workers and not all kind of clerks),etc.
Which I find somewhat fair as our strike protection laws are far reaching (afaik even a bit further than in Italy) and the employer is often as fucked by politics as the staff. So it's a somewhat tradeoff I personally can live with. (Seen from my time as an employee. These days I am a small employer,but as left as ever,and from a employers point of view wouldn't care to much - but the nature of my business supports it.)
Yeah, I’m in.
People who can strike should also go to places of work that people can't and contribute to sit-ins and slowdowns.
Depends where you work, I suppose.
Oh, that's an idea. Unfortunately my work has no union. Tech is full of rugged individuals.
I own my own very very very small business (its me, my wife, my sister-in-law and a friend in another state) - what's the consensus on what we should be doing for things like this? Do I strike myself?
You close down for the day and don't buy anything. It's quite clearly spelled out: No work. No school. No shopping.
Any other questions?
Simple yes would have sufficed.
Your business does not create money from nowhere. You buy things, and you sell things. You are part of a bigger economy, and you are striking that.
That's fair just seems like your anger is misdirected at people who want to help. Most info is framed for W9s. I felt I was asking a legitimate question.
I suppose the any other questions bit was unnecessary, but I was trying to point out that it was listed in the post in a rather humorous way. I apologize because it does sound a bit snarkier than intended. Sorry.
No worries I do appreciate the response
In your defense, it's kind of a dumb question. Whether you own your business or not, if you're trying to participate, you don't work. It's that simple... (Sorry if you see this, OP)
ignore webadict. since the strike is for 🇺🇲gov, do not do business with them, or contractors working with the government. You can continue your business with comrades involved in the strike.
if when you can donate, do so.
We donate a lot of what extra we can to supporting causes thanks for the reply comrade!
The government does not operate in a vacuum. Corporations and their owners support these policies and actions, which is why economic boycotts are part of the strike.
Comrades are not the rulers🤦♀️. Are you the ruling class?
https://generalstrikeus.com/
Thank you for this. Sucks the local chapters are primarily organized on discord. Seems pretty risky that they could all be shut down in one fell swoop.
I don't think it's a good idea to put any of your information in a "protest" form...
One day "general strike", or as we in Germany call it: "Regular Sunday"
I have a doctor's appointment on Friday. But I can avoid going out for dinner or groceries.
So... you think there will be people working at your doctor's office on a day of a General Strike? This is very entitled attitude. I mean, I get it, I am a nurse and I anticipate the general public will rely on our ethical code to ensure emergency rooms are staffed as well as the other inpatient floors so people in need for acute health care will have beds and care. However, what if we just don't show up? There is a nurses' strike in NYC, staff from major hospital systems are not showing up for work. There is a plethora of temporary healthcare employee agencies recruiting strike crossers -- some for almost $200/hr. Why can't those hospitals just pay their nurses? They are certainly able to pay these scabs.
I wonder if you expect the police, teachers, garbage collectors and firemen to also show up for their jobs to continue to make your life smooth and safe? That is an antithesis of a general strike's impact. Some of you realize your jobs are really unimportant, the rest of us have to carry society and humanity.
Don’t “police, teachers, garbage collectors and fireman” kinda rely on other professions to do their jobs? Why do you need to put other workers down? Pretty sure as a teacher I relied on a school bus driver to get the students to me, an HVAC guy to make sure that the building was comfortable, architects and construction workers to create the building, electricians……….
The comments you are leaving seem to me like compassion fatigue and burnout.
They texted me today reminding me of the session, and also reminding me that I still have to pay if I don't show up to my appointment at this point. Also my health issue seriously needs to be addressed.
3 days notice is not a lot of time. And the doctor is holding me accountable to my side of the agreement that I made prior to this strike being announced, my only option is to pay for the treatment, whether I receive it or not. What's with the personal attack? I said I would refrain from work, and shopping of any form. I feel like I'm doing what I can under the limited notice. I have a long workday tomorrow, but am still preparing to buy groceries after work to avoid spending anything on Friday.
what does this have to do with 3 days notice of a one day strike? What does this have to do with your hostility directed at me?
I am not in a great headspace mentally, and you attacking me, acting like I'm one of those people that is ignoring everything that's going on, it's hurtful and counter productive. I'm doing the best that I can.
Take care of yourself and do what you think is right. Judging the other posts of the person your replied to they're just there to spread division. Don't feed the trolls, they're probably getting fed enough on the Russian troll farm already.
The winter storm that pushed people inside for 2 days has more impact than a single day purchase blackout.
If a country can shrug of massive storms and fires... I just don't know what message this is actually supposed to send.
We seem to want instant gratification to work in the real world, we want a lack of suffering and to make it as quick and easy as possible.
If you have an addiction you don't lose it in a day. In Shawshank redemption, Andy Dufresne doesnt get to leave out the front door, he has to crawl through a river of shit to come out clean the other side.
We have a river of shit to wade through, I think we need to come to terms with that.
People are still ordering things online. Inside works (i.e. Warehouses, factories, offices) still go on.
Yes, and the people that think its a good idea to order something with same day delivery from amazon in a snow storm are probably the same ones that will ignore the call for a strike.
We have to ignore the outliers we can't get, but we nees to understand that The System at large will ignore our outliers as well. A one day strike that has less impact than a storm physically blocking streets will be seen as an outlier.
Not a dig, but just a fact.
While I am pessimistic about this Friday, I also try to translate it into meaningful action.
I've definitely severely dropped how much "consumerist" spending I go with across the year. This includes lots of different kinds of common luxuries, and instead making use of farmer's markets and libraries for food and entertainment. From what I have heard on a few anecdotes, the drop in spending around Christmas was significant to retailers, and should hopefully contribute to pessimism towards fascist ideology.
Yea I'm the same. I don't understand how people think this is effective over other methods. There are just so many more options and awareness for spreading a message now. Protesting this way was born out of a time when we didn't even have telephones. Information was entirely different. Plus with authoritarians controlling narratives, they can really control a lot of public opinion so methods need to be implemented to counter that. Just an example, I see people projecting images within cities. That's amazing, why not organize that. Every city, projections of police executing Alex and abusing their authority. They'll take one down but have 20 more at the ready to project it again. If we're getting hundreds of millions in the streets, there's got to be something else we can do than just stand around for a few hours.
Yeah, not going to be effective. Make it a week, and you might turn some heads a tad.
To be effective a general strike needs to be open ended, indefinite, until demands are met. We are not there yet, organizing some smaller ones is a good practice run perhaps, but just preparing for the real one.
In 500 bc, then 350 bc or so, the plebians of Rome had general strikes, decamping to a hill and refusing work until demands were met. One was a written set of laws as the rich were just making shit up as they went. Another was getting tribunes, every tribe got one and they could veto the senate, offer sanctuary, were sacrosanct, elected to one year terms. The second general strike expanded the tribunate.
The Peoples' tribunes are the only reason their republic lasted for 500 years. Until the imperial boomerang came back on them as well, the tactics they used warring with other peoples were brought home by their own politicians.
Some people are going to stock up the day before, completely defeating the purpose
Consider it practice.
Just saw a thing yesterday about what china calls the “kill line” it’s basically how most people are paycheck to paycheck and one expense can topple people into poverty and homeless. I’m thinking the tariffs goal was to move that line so less people can take action.
Turns out it's hard to orchestrate hundreds of millions of people spread out over 9 millions square kilometers isn't exactly easy to do, but I'm sure you have a better strat
Yes that is part of the difficulty of organizing them—that and theres many millions of those people and they are spread out. How do you reach them over such vast distances and impact them? Would love to hear how you would have achieved it?
Are the semantics really a hill you are gonna die on? Alright guys, go get the organizers to change all the banners to reword it so this guy is satisfied—sorry but that's what's needed in this moment!
I'm being snarky, but what's your desired goal? What does success look like to you here, if people listened to you instead of calling it a 1-day general strike?
Some day in the future:
"Hey guys, we're going to do an indefinite general strike!"
"What's that?"
"Remember that one day thing you all did on Jan 30? It's nothing like that!"
"Sweet! I'll go to work then!"
I don't think you agree that the above scenario is your intended goal, so enlighten us with a corrected conversation
Then make it a week. It starts with someone. It could start with you.
Don't ask for a Superman. They don't exist.
We do things as a community and a collective, its the only way it works.
It can start with any one of us. I've started, but seems easy for me, if everyone puts in a little effort, and some of us put in a lot, we can make an impact.
It's this, or bloodshed.
Either way, our comforts are lost. I'd rather suffer on my terms, than theirs.
Don't get me wrong, it's a Pretti Good idea/start. But, there needs to be more, like a definded list of demands. Otherwise, it's just an ignorable protest.
That's not a strike, that's just called being unemployed.
Even if the unions aren't involved, this is a walkout/boycott, not a general strike.
There need to be actual demands before life returns to normal for the government to feel actual pressure.
Should also add to not use any social media platforms at all too.
I'll check here to see if everyone is off...
Last I checked lemmy isnt a corporate shithole, yet.
Would like updates on a platform like Lemmy tho! A pic of folks in the streets can go a long way
It's planned for one day which sounds less than useless. Only sustained strikes and protests are effective.
A one day general strike across the US would be an amazing achievement. If we can pull that off it's a great place to start. Would a more sustained effort have to be planned? Probably, but being able to achieve this shows that the people are serious about this and the threat of a more sustained strike can be taken seriously.
This. Don't forget how uncultured civil action is in the US. They literally replaced it by 2A. Buy a gun and ammo, and you never have to protest. A one day general strike would bring awareness to the OPTION of civil action to way more than we care to admit.
Exactly. We need to build these muscles and demonstrate to other would-be protesters that acting en masse is possible. Otherwise, everyone new to this just feels like they're sticking their neck out.
If it has a set end date then it's a party not a protest.
There is no union in my industry.
Biggest umbrella union: AFL-CIO wiki
For healthcare, cleaning/janitorial, public sector or broader service jobs: SEIU wiki
for car industry, tech, academics: UAW wiki
For transport, logistics, warehouses (UPS, Amazon): Teamsters wiki
I am in the pot industry. None of those will help me.
AFL-CIO is the umbrella = every industry falls under it
On the eve of government shutdown
Finally it's on a day I actually don't have to be at work. I can do this one.
...do you not know how strikes work?
The reality for most people is that they can't afford a strike. Rent, food, gas are all blockers. Criticizing those who can't strike and aren't scabs will only hurt your movement and cause people to just not want to help.
then join a union! they can supplement your pay when on strike.
I'm in a union (SEIU) and they are definitely not going to supplement my pay. Also- I do caregiving. I don't know how it works to strike when my client would die if no one showed up. Work without clocking in? That seems counter productive...
medical fields usually have some sort of clause that prevents complete strike, like the postal service. you can still strike but in that case it's without union authorisation.
here the metalworker's union is paying striking workers at tesla 125% of their regular salary and have the funds to continue doing that for about 200 years.
The vast majority of Americans don't have that option.
why not?
Because most places in the USA have atrocious worker protection laws. Even if you're in a name brand, corporate job with thousands of people on board with unionizing, they can close your office or fire everyone with no repercussions.
Just look at Blizzard, Google, Starbucks, etc... They take a chainsaw to any union talk and have never been bothered with consequences. If you're employed by a tiny, family owned business you have even less leverage. Your personal relationship to the owner is much more important to achieving your goals than paperwork solidarity with the 2 other employees.
but i mean... the entire reason unions work is because of a mandate from the masses. if they close an office the only reasonable counter-action is for every other office to unionise too.
Because of a lack of said unions
from what i hear there are unions everywhere in the us. why are they not doing anything?
It's not that simple unfortunately. Sure there are national unions, but they're very specific in the industries they operate it. They are long standing institutions with the influence and funding to boot, your local tenant union or random coffee shop "union" does not have the resources or influence to make any of that happen. I knew some people in FL who tried to unionize their coffee shop they worked for and the owners just straight up shut the business down instead of capitulating, they were all out of a job after that.
i mean national unions exist to strengthen the local chapters.
I guess I'm more nihilistic in my viewpoint. I've only seen small unions fail whether through inaction, ineptitude, or busting. In non multimillion dollar industries, they basically are impossible to form successfully. That shouldn't mean forming them shouldn't be attempted, it's just the reality that I observed.
The reality for most people is if we went on strike we would be the only one at our job to do it and we would be reprimanded or fired.
We all live paycheck to paycheck and if we miss a day of work then we don't get paid and we can't pay our bills and we die.
It's great!
Get a clue and look at the 60s to learn lessons. Libs know the basics always have and never wanted to resort to this. Meanwhile everything from The weather underground to moms and teachers protests happened back when. Takes a while to wake the dragon but Libs have been consistently doing more than you, likely before you were born.
No I mean the everyday folks whom you’d criticize…
You mean the people who embrace the status quo unless they absolutely have no choice?
Only the allies amiright? Let the klan side…
https://archive.is/YEqkE
Just gonna repeat what the OP said: this is an unverified archive link that he found on reddit. Idk what that means, but it looks legit to me?!
E: the website works now: https://wiki.icelist.is/index.php/Main_Page
Much appreciated!
someone said: You can’t just pick a random day in the week to start a nationwide strike on.
Why not? And since when is friday the middle of the week?
Because you need coordination and organization. If you don't reach a critical mass of participation then the handful of people involved will just be handled as if they were skipping work for any other reason. And if it only lasts a day it can simply be waited out.
Strikes require funds, funds require dues, dues require unions. You have to ensure that striking workers will have some form of security in order to reach a critical mass. People have families to feed. Striking without funds or organization could only work if everyone was really dedicated to the cause, and if that was the case, then what's stopping them from forming a union and collecting dues in order to do it right?
You can't lay down the sort of moral "line in the sand" that you need if participating means, "I didn't show up to work, all of my coworkers did, and now I'm unemployed and will be on the streets if I can't find a way to make rent soon." These "General Strike Now!" calls happen basically every other week, with no coordination or thought of strategy.
Strikes involve inherent individual risk for a collective benefit. It's a collective action problem, which can only be overcome by an organized structure mitigating the risks and inspiring confidence in the outcome. A "wildcat general strike" isn't really a thing.
Srry guys, not sure if I can simply miss class
All the very best to all of you who stand for what is right. You have my respect.
So how did the general strike go?
Never even heard of it till now, so it probably didn't work the way they wanted it to.
Brilliant 👍 I hope everyone turns up. Ppl better have paper work in check!
How about a general strike for our entire country's system and the fact that we're bought by Izrabaal.. whatever man.. yeah let's strike
If we stop their influence a whole lot MORE will come of it besides stopping ICE
The no shopping seems weird to me when I mostly go to local breweries or friend owned bars or small independent coffee shops where the owners and workers are leftists (all my usual third places). Supporting local helps my community. If this lasted longer and many people did this, then it would have a financial impact on these places. If they closed, some corpo owned bar/brewery/coffee could come in and just take their spot.
Can someone help me understand if protesting and hurting local is worth it?
Nice that you have downvotes but no one had anything to say to you.
I dont know personally but if i had to guess i would say it might be harmful to local businesses but thats the only way it can be harmful to the people it needs to be. How do you police which businesses are not corporate owned? Do we rely on good faith? Word of mouth?
Plus i am not sure a business that cant afford to do without a day of business is doing very well.
Expanding on this, smaller businesses are also customers for larger ones
It’s not nice that I have downvotes for asking a question I want to understand how hurting local businesses helps? Maybe I’m thinking about it wrong?
For my local businesses that I go to, I know the owners. Technically that’s still good faith to make sure they’re not actually owned by a mega conglomerate that has 51% invested in them, but still.
Even if your local shops are good, odds are their suppliers would be companies like Aramark.
Very true! It all funnels up. That helps me understand a little better. Thanks!
I dont really get this. I actually like my workplace and my manager is an awesome guy. I'm supposed to just not do my work? Idg what that helps.
We need to cause pain to politicians and billionaires. I already dont use popular social media or shop at Amazon or Walmart. I dont have streaming. Im doing more than 98% of Americans already.
What would be FAR better than this are tech literacy classes to ween the idiot public off the techno corps. Get a few thousand people to quit streaming, using Amazon, and shutting all their phones off or at least all using vpns and ad blockers would be a huge revenue hit to corporations.
I guess I can work tomorrow then play video games at home after. I dont see how this helps.
It works so well they made it illegal for unions to do this in most circumstances in the late 1940's That is what you need to understand. Now after successfuly convincing a few generations unions are bad, no one understand the power we all have if we just sit down and stop working until they fix this mess.
Stopping the entire economy in its tracks is your only weapon against fascists (because no one wants to shoot them in that fat disgusting faces), but sure, liking your boss is more important...
But 1 day of me not getting my work done isnt going to do a thing. Its a LOT more effective if people stop buying shit altogether from any corporate store as long as they can.
This mentality is why your worker rights in the US are fucking attrocious.
Imo id respect someone more who set up local groups to start learning more about tech literacy and opposing the techocracy, rather than just skipping work and sitting at home.
The reason our rights are shit is because people would rather live with that then be homeless. No one here is going to strike with you. It would take all of Amazon to strike to make a difference. I think something more direct, like congregating outside of every politicians house and making their lives hell, would be much more effective than a strike against my employer who is one of the best in the region.
How does this affect anything?
Missing a day of work on a Friday is part of people'e schedule now whether they have a 4 day work week just take a day off. Same with school. This is minimally disruptive. The shopping one is the most useless imo. You could just do all your shopping Thursday and skip Friday.
Sorry, but can we just try to succeed at this small step before we build to larger actions?
Not forgiven 😞
I guess it was more of a "Canadian sorry" 😂 I'm practicing for when the motherland accepts my transfer application from North Carolina.
No idea. Guess ill sit on my ass friday and play video games at home and that will somehow make me a good lemmy protester.
This won't actually do anything.
In order for a strike to be a strike, it need to be organized and it needs to achieve a specific goal. If there's no demands then it's not a strike, it's a boycott or a walkout.
Currently there is no movement, just a national level reaction. A movement requires leadership, a significant level of coordination and mobilization, very specific set of demands and goals, and an underlying message/philosophy that is backed by the general public. We currently have non of this.
In order to get to the point of a national level general strike, there needs to be a series of much smaller strikes that do all of the above, and have those localized strikes merge with each other to eventually have the size to pull of a national strike.
You're right. We should do nothing until a self-organizing, grassroots, independently funded organization gets enough signatures to get enough permits and consent to formally complain.
You didn't have to write anything. Instead, you argued semantics. Then you argued that progress needs to be made on your terms. (Also what is the difference between a national reaction and movement if not just time and effort? Most movements are reactions). This is exactly how you counter-message and push people away from the concept of activism.
I do agree that effective long-term change likely comes through critical and organized methods. But that is not to dissuade anyone from participating in resistance or activism. Change is rarely graceful, and does not need to conform to anyone's prescription.
You can't go from 0 to a 100 and expect results. The national strike that the post is talking about is going to result in absolutely nothing. Barely anybody is going to participate if at all.
Why? Because most people aren't even aware this is a thing, and to the small minority that is, they still won't participate because they're going to be the only people doing it. If one or two people from your workplace participate, they're going to be penalized for not showing up. Same goes with boycotting or whatever else is planned.
My point is that there is currently no foundation to support such a strike. You can't scale up if the people aren't mobilized and onboard. How about instead of calling for a national strike, you work to convince your local unions to buy in? Two people participating at a workplace will do nothing, but if 70% of workers don't show up at then that means something. It will send a message to the local community and might even make it to the local news. Then from there you coordinate the unions and other orgs (churches, schools, universities, nonprofits, etc) to organize a city wide strike, then a statewide strike, and then a regional strike, and if that succeeds then you can think about doing something on a national scale. However, trying to skip all the steps usually doesn't result in real change, which is what's going to happen here.
Yeah, this is armchair, if not just rationalization. Stay proud that it'd all have just worked had they just followed the steps like you told them.
I'm not giving steps, I'm merely stating a very basic fact. Movements need substance, that's just reality. They need foundations to stand on to do anything meaningful. That's the most basic of observations.
Like do you seriously think that the civil rights movement happened overnight because MLK decided one day to do a big march and everybody decided to randomly join? No the civil rights movement and all the other movements in history took decades of independent grassroots movements organizing, mobilizing, and coordinating with each other. That's how they eventually consolidated to form unstoppable national political force.
You can be butthurt at what I said or deny it all you want, but reality isn't going to change because what I said is a simple truth. If I was wrong then something would've happened today, but nothing did. January 30th is already over, and there was absolutely no impact or buzz surrounding this "strike", not even on social media.
Nobody's butthurt here. I'm saying your rhetoric carries water for fascists. And every time you say "it's just facts", you reinforce that in everyone's mind. It's not about winning an argument about how progress gets made, its pointing out how the way speak identifies our politics. Its ok, lots of people agree with you. And more people will be shot in the streets while you'll be correct about how progress works.
Me: "These hollow performative stunts have no impact and resulted in zero results. We need to work establishing a real opposition with true roots to get actual results in the most effective way possible!"
You: "iS tHiS fAsCiSm?"
Like come on, you gotta be a troll. There's no way anybody is dim enough to think a small collection of individuals posting random "national strike" pics on Reddit and Lemmy is going to actually produce anything substantial nationwide. It's Jan 31st, we literally saw this fail because it wasn't a real attempt to begin with. Nobody knew about it, nobody is backing it, nobody is leading it, there's no goals, there's organization, there's no coordination, there's literally nothing... and what do you know? Nobody fucking participated. How much further into tyranny do we have to slip before you mouthbreathers understand that you can't virtue signal your way out of authoritarianism.
Let's set aside the ridiculous bad faith restatement aside as just an emotional reaction.
Here are things that are occurring: https://actionnetwork.org/event_campaigns/ice-out-of-everywhere
This is 10 seconds of typing into a browser to attach to a single organization effort. Yet "nobody knew about it, nobody is backing it, nobody is leading it, etc.". You're objectively wrong. You're willfully ignorant. You would know this if you even attempted to look. It's the coldest its been and people are in the streets across the country. Get up, go outside, and find out. And repeating this the futility of it all is exactly how you support the current tyranny facing us.
You seem so frustrated that people are patting themselves on the back for sharing jpegs, yet you sit here doing significantly less than the bare minimum. You are working against it.
Which is why I'm so pissed at the democrats and not just the liberal right wing corpo ones but in particular AOC, Bernie and the other members of the progressive arm. They should be leading a general fucking strike.
And not just them but those adjacent to the party ie Jon Stewart, Colbert and Steph (and all the rest of the YouTube / social media sphere talking heads). Not only have they made incredibly lucrative careers attacking Trump, speaking truth to the insanity of the last ten years (because even under Biden it was always still about Trump), making it clear trunp is a clear and present danger to all.
I'm sick of their never ending jokes and serious moments.
A call to fucking action is required. The world is watching whilst you say your pretty, empty, words.
The time is now.
I realized years ago that the progressives in this country a complete joke. They constantly put their own careers ahead of the greater good, they talk big but their actions never match, when push comes to shove they cower, and the most infuriating thing is that they always choose to uphold the status quo.
If they were the real deal then they would've worked day and night to build a coalition to stop Trump in 2016, but they didn't. They would've build a strong opposition during his first term and stopped him from passing anything, but they didn't. They would've use their opportunity under Biden to prosecute Trump and his gang of criminals after Jan 6th, but they didn't. They would've at least fielded real candidates to stop Trump from returning, but they didn't. Now that Trump has been in office again and literally dismantling the country, they're still not doing shit. I lost all faith in them. If change were to happen it has to come from the people.
Agreed.
I am in the EU. There's no reason why I should know this. Keep the US in the US-related communities, thanks.
well good for you, but the whole fucking world is on fire. if the us falls then how long do you think the eu has?
Depends on how much we (finally) detach from them and start acting as a world power.
I get all of those already. Don't need them in a general advice community.
lol, no.
or you could have some common decency and join the strike in solidarity instead of being a whiner
Tell me how I could do it from here (that is not sofa activism like "like and share") and put THAT in a YSK.
if you're not in a Union join one, ask around your national unions what it would take to organize a solidarity strike. international strikes are pretty common around the globe
Strikes are organized against one's own government on topics for which the government has skin in the game.
That's why Italy, Germany and France see protests against the genocide of the Palestinian people: because those countries sell weapons and buy security systems from Israel.
Now tell me what exactly you think any of those governments could do against the decades long fall into fascism and plutocracy that the US is experiencing, while the same billionaires fund our own local nazi parties.
The only thing that we should keep saying is don't touch the sick corpse.
My Chinese noses would fire my ass so quick. I’d have to take the day off. But I can’t even do that because of how much business I’m on.
... /s?
I hope people knew I meant boses. Not noses. But ya. New job is for a Chinese firm. Haven’t built up my PTO to take off yet. Plus Fridays are so busy for me. I can’t miss.
If the strike aint demolishing deathcamps, it's a festivity.
✌️
People like you are entirely unhelpful to your own cause.
A lot of people don't really want to get involved because they think that involves essentially signing up to be a soldier in some hypothetical civil war. And comments like that just reinforce that belief.
A general strike is the way you get progress in a non-violent method, (well actually the administration will probably make it violent but that will be on them) just ask the French.
Weird that others🧵 said the same thing I said, and they get upvoted.
They didn't say what you said. They said that they think a general strike in a few days is unlikely to succeed.
Meanwhile you were complaining that not enough murder in is going to be a happening
I said that a strike without impacts to fascist resources is ineffective.
Murder is what the fascists are doing.
Feeding people, sheltering the homeless, networking, and solidifying is
? ? ?
Giving people the power to defend themselves isn't enlisting to die for an authoritarian. Are you confused at who you're talking to?
If it's done everyday, until fascists can't function. Not a weekend festivity.
Can't tell if your banter is dated, or ignorant
Seems to me that not one of those is "demolishing deathcamps", so by your argument those are all "just festivities", no?
The thing you're arguing here is entirely different to your original comment that the above commenter was arguing against.
Are you unaware what a political cause is?
Echo Dot & I differ on what causes create change, and which do not. Unlike EchoDot, I am aware how historically strikes have been able to meet their demands, and it definitively didn't last 3 days.
Absolutely none of what you're talking about here has anything to do with your own prior comment. I mean you are complaining that action is being taken against people that you think are authorian but apparently it's not the kind of action you'd like so you basically dismiss it.
Please explain how your negative attitude is helping anyone.
For a singular day? What kind of strike meets demands in a singular day‽
Explain how your “positive attitude” worked for the Minnesota.
Moving goalposts over and over, huh?
Me? Impossible.
🇺🇲ans, looks like.
Then organize something
I did. Pugjesus &
.worldremoved the Allamance deathcamp demolishing op.I tried it again. You can tell how it's going.
Something tells me 🇺🇲 really really likes genocide.
I do see where organizing that would be tricky. Might have to just go sock hats, sunglasses, and voice changer to organize something like that.
Demolishing deathcamps require much less than that.
But the political will is simply not there.
Heck, if
.worldreally cared about saving lives, they would have posted how the US demolished Al-Qaeda.And demolishing tools are plenty! Medical supplies even more!
It's the political will of 🇺🇲 that's simply gone.
No
I am a nurse and work at a hospital. I can't even ethically participate in this as abandoning the sick is against our moral code. Imagine if there was no staff at your ER after getting clubbed, beaten and gassed at your General Strike Day Protest nor no one there for Meemaw who is half demented and needing hip surgery. I respect the ideal of a General Strike but this the US and we all live on a budgeting razor edge that has gotten more and more sharp since the morons elected this asshole.
So sure, all you "non-essential" personnel stay home. We saw how useless your jobs were during COVID. After this day, your companies will see that too and well, you can easily participate in more of these without fear of losing the job you don't have.
I would advise you look at past instances where general strikes were called, see what nurses did back then. And to be clear, i'm not saying i know the answer to that, just sayin that might be a good place for inspiration, whatever decision u make.
You should perhaps read up on how general strikes function before taking the time to write out that word salad. You are not inventing the wheel here, it has already been invented long ago, and tested and tried out many times.
Hope you feel better soon!
His/She's right perhaps best to just keep working while the government slowly turn into a Nazi state. No offense I have high respect to those in healthcare. Though I do notice God complex tends to shows up in that field. Perhaps the way you brought it up might be a bit too blunt.
Strike nurses are a thing ;)
Okay...
It really doesn’t seem like you do, to be fair.
Stfu.