Ferreal, tho. It's like she's implying those aren't simple, elementary facts of modern life, and judging those that don't agree with her whinge-as-wisdom, FFS. 🤌🏼
Yes, I inferred that. 🤓 FYI, being born within a particular decade doesn't make you a "child of" that same period unless you were school age in it as well. Ergo, "00s kid". 🤙🏽
I’m sorry to inform you that this is not a given and most people do not feel this way. You see more people like this because you spend a lot of time on the internet. You know who else spends a lot of time on the internet? People like me who feel just as shitty as you do. We are not normal. Normal people do not visit lemmy, or know what a Linux operating system is.
I'm sorry that you feel so comfy with those little lies and acerbic fallacies, genuinely. Currently, isolation is a very real concern for many, if not most modern communities and humanity in general. The causes are legion, and the effects are often globally felt. For example, the entire country of Japan has been suffering from it for so long, they have a fucking word for the "lifestyle", FFS.
Also, fuck "normal". That's just a word unimaginative mouthbreathers use to neg people with —and there are too many of them in the world already. No need to do it to yourself (or others). 🖖🏽
Dearest, you are coping by telling yourself that the way you feel is a fact of life. That everyone feels that way. They don’t, and you can feel better.
All the things I had to do to protect myself from manipulative people.
They needed my attention. I became more independent and denied giving them any attention. They don't like that I'm not giving them the attention they think they deserve so they try and turn everyone against me.
It happens often because I'm quiet and kind. They think that makes me easy to manipulate. I've become hardened to manipulators. So much to the point that physical touch with other people has become awkward or uncomfortable.
You can be all that with no fear of abadonment. Not having the energy to deal with people's constant bullshit, just not particularly liking people, not being very good at talking to people and being heard and not taken advantage of- are all more than enough.
This incessant need by psychiatry to link trauma to abandonment and refuse any other reasoning, has lead to a lot of misdiagnosis, especially in women.
I'm generally not a big proponent of western therapy in general, so I'm not arguing that part of your comment, I just wanted to say - it's normal to not be very good at talking to people. Like any skill, it takes practice, which requires accepting that you'll be bad at it initially.
I did it, I went from socially awkward to people not believing me when I tell them I'm an introvert; "But you're so sociable and charismatic!". Gonna be honest, still don't really want to talk to people. Like sure, I like having discussions and hashing ideas out with an external perspective, and I'm glad I developed the skill. But I don't want to just, talk to people. It's generally exhausting.
Maintaining connections takes too much damn energy, no matter how good the other person is. And as someone with a nasty Voltron of ADD and Asperger’s, there are a myriad of co-morbidities along for that ride.
i would rather full-ass something to my own satisfaction than suffer someone else’s half-assed attempts.
I also think better experiences help. I.e. telling some friends specifically what you struggle with, they will work with it. And so when in doubt in the future, you can recall the times where asking for help was totally fine with certain people.
Hey, I know sometimes you really have no one to talk to and I don't wanna minimize that.
Writing helps, or talking to animals, or, you know just other aspects of life. For me anyway. And I can't possibly make an all encompassing statement here that fits every situation.
But things change, and beliefs like "I can't trust anyone" can change to "I can trust this person with that", as people show up in life who are different. It doesn't have to be a friend either, can be a therapist or similar who is different from the rest, where you can actually tell them something. Or somebody in a shared hobby, etc.
... So that's what it's called. I knew it couldn't just be me. What is it called when one tries not to be this way by reaching out, but finds nobody actually helps anyway?
Also what's it called when you consider asking others for help, but you watch everyone in your vicinity do everything in a way that's completely the opposite of how you would, so you HAVE to do it yourself anyway, or else your OCD will cause you more stress than you've supposedly been relieved of?
I'm the opposite. I essentially plead with people for connections. No one wants to do a god damn thing anymore. It's easier to sit inside and stare at a screen. I want to do stuff and no one else really does.
There are many people who want to go out and do stuff; you haven't met them. I am in my 50s and I spent a couple decades trying to convince the friends I had to be more interested in doing, and I never succeeded. It is clear to me now that I should have been out finding my people who enjoyed the stuff I enjoy, and spending my time with them instead.
Where do you find the energy? I'm so constantly exhausted from dealing with the world and life that I can barely get errands done on weekends. You must be from SEA and away from the news of the impending world war because of a dementia patient and his cavalcade of hate.
I don't know what SEA is. I have kids and hobbies. Get off the fuggin' internet, dude. I'm seriously considering leaving Lemmy now due to the doom and gloom and the acceptance of only one holier than thou opinion on very subjective issues here. The internet is an echo chamber of doom. Negativity sells like sex out here. Get off the internet. Stop staring at screens. It gets easier. News sites profit off your fear and anger, and they will continue to do so while you let them.
I'm generally seen as pretty emotionally open, but it's always a front, like a negotiation to give the appearance of warmth but I'm terrified to open any deeper. I feel like what people think is the core us just the rind.
Babies will actually show this behavior as well- so this trauma goes DEEP. It might even be more genetic than behavioral. They've shown when a parent leaves a baby for a bit, the baby begins to cry, but when the parent returns, there are three responses (I'll pretend a baby can speak, but this is what they say with body language):
Ah! You were gone but now you're back! I missed you and I'm happy you are here let's play with my rattle (stable)
OH MY GOD YOU ARE BACK I MISSED YOU PLEASE DON'T LEAVE EVER AGAIN I'M HOLDING ON TO YOU HARDER (Anxious)
Oh, you're back? That's fine, I'm not gonna look at you. If I stop caring you can't hurt me again. (Avoidant)
I know I'd keep a pretty clean & minimalist room as a kids- I remember straight up saying "I want to be able to pack up my life and leave at a moments notice and no one will ever know I ever existed" when I was 10. It's still hard to believe people care about me in any meaningful way.
Weird thing- I had a very supportive childhood. Having a sister with intense ADHD was tough though since she took up 90% of my parents time, so I think that's where it comes from.
It kind of is true though. People have zero tolerance for someone who was never in their life. They might develop some if you are a friend, but you can easily burn through that. Any friends that you do have, are to be cherished.
Wow. ITT: Several people lashing out defensively at a simple definition statement, which was not directed at them, and they say doesn't even apply to themselves.
Maybe a negativity schema from a parent who was very tightly wound and anxious.
Kids learn this stuff before the age of five.
I know that if I have ten positive interactions and one negative then the negative one is going to dictate the narrative I tell myself about the world.
If you know what to look for it makes it possible to catch yourself falling into patterns of thought, identify why and learn to see things a bit differently.
It doesn't invalidate anything you've been through.
This hits deep. Sometimes we don't even realize we're doing it until we're completely burnt out and wondering why we feel so alone. It takes so much courage to finally reach out and trust someone again.
I didn't know it had a name. This is 10000% me, not contacting family or friends, being perpetually single and everything literally never asking for help of any kind.
I never ask for help since doing so earned me punishment of some kind growing up. The worst possible thing that could happen to me is if someone complemented me on something I did and my parents didn't get any credit for it. So I still am hesitant to ask for help. It has always had a very high cost.
As far as most people are concerned my parents were fine christians.
I think I'd agree that asking for help would be a skill. In my opinion, it takes courage to put yourself out there and face all the shitty people that there may be and all the(ir) criticisms. On another note to that, getting help, getting dependant on that help, then what if it goes away? What next?
This i think is one of the things I struggle with in regards to asking for help. It's terrifying.
Just wanted to get my thoughts out. Sorry if it's not appropriate here.
I don't really worry about abandonment at all. If anything, I'd be more worried about the opposite. People like me, and want to hang out with me, and I do not have the time, energy, or desire to hang out with most people. I've had more than my fair share of clingy, dependent "friends", and I'm not a fan. Hyper-independent aloofness has definitely spared me many additions to that unfortunate list.
I don't disagree that it's a trauma response, but not always to abandonment (I wish), but often necessity. When you have to do everything, you learn how to do everything, and eventually there's not much left to rely on other people for.
I don't ask for help out of stubbornness. I guess I never grew out of "I can do it myself!" But, now, I have no one to ask, so there's that.
I haven't had an actual friend in over 30 years. I had a roommate for four years who was the next-closest thing to a friend I had--mostly a friend, more than just a roommate, at least. Then I got married, and she seemed like a friend until she cheated on me. Other than that, I've had work acquaintances, some of whom I would occasionally hang out with outside of work, but once I quit and left, that ended, too. I've had many girlfriends over the years, but that's not really the same thing. It was never "friend with benefit", it was always benefit with friend. Once the benefit stopped, so did the friendship. So, yeah, not great at relationships.
I don't feel I've ever been outright abandoned. Apart from the divorce, the parting of ways was to some degree mutually agreed to. And, by the time the divorce was finalized, I was on board, too. You might think, "But, she cheated on you...", well, yes, but things aren't always so black and white and simple to parse.
What if I'm extremely independent because over the last four decades I have been continuously abandoned, and have learned to adapt to my circumstances?
"Hyper-Independence" is not a problem. Free association is important and strong Independence protects that.
I know there are negative psychological elements to seeking it. For instance, asking for help makes me feel a sense of debt even when people insist I owe them nothing for it. So I generally dislike asking for help because I despise debt. Its like a grain of sand in my brain that makes me want to give up.
The only time I ask for help is when I realize if I don't I will experience catastrophe without it or the damage of not asking for help will cause more regret than even any debt, imagined or real. And when it comes to that I feel self loathing as I feel like I'm taking advantage of people's generosity. And to some degree: that's true. I'll be a lot nicer to someone who's helping me if my well being depends on that help. I'll hesitate to say what I really think or believe.
Having autism, I don't want to have to follow societal social expectations either. So the more leverage I have the more I can say no or fuck off if something is just expected of people normally suddenly applies to me. Financial leverage seems like my only avenue to freedom from that nonsense. I cannot rely on allistics, and even if they come through I'll be chained down by their social expectations of behavior. Its one of the reasons I reject full collectivist ideologies, and prefer Mutualism/Market Socialism. Mutualism is the farthest left you can go while still featuring a market, and that way I don't have to navigate soft social rules to get stuff or feel guilt for getting it. The market exchange makes things fair and clean in my mind. I can say fuck off I have the money, give me what I need for it and leave me alone if I so desire and I know I'll be able to do so again in the future. There's no pressure to conform.
In a fully collectivist economy, if I separate myself from people I'd risk being viewed as unfit for the collective's well being or some shit would would have to put up with interventions into how I personally live. Maybe be told its for my own good, or be told that its only fair. I couldn't handle that kind of vulnerability so I'd have to work hard to pretend to fit in which I already know is exhausting. It'd be miserable.
People can say all they want "You don't have to try and fit in" and they're full of shit. Collectivists, communists, and "full" socialists might not realize it, but they'd subtly and unconsciously alienate or separate themselves from people like myself if I fully embraced who I am openly without masking. Or they'd insist on dictating to me how I need to do things.
I want to be free of debt (mental or real) and free of social bounds I view as stupid. I view a lot of taboos and social bounds as meaningless gibberish protecting people from things that are fundamentally harmless. I have to navigate that shit for survival, and I want to minimize that as much as possible.
Example:
I called my mom to get me water because I was super sick and he brerates me for not being an adult because hes "grown up" enough to take the risk to go down the stairs while barely able to stand up and shivering and I wont. Like wtf? she right there in the living room. Not in next province.
Shiiit. Maybe because I'm getting old and friends naturally drift away, they are just busy or prioritizing family, it feels like they don't care about me anymore. It has gotten harder to get their helo compare to my 20s
Making friends is a continuous process, or at least one that you need to return to pretty regularly. Especially when you get older and your friends start disappearing.
If you don't have kids of your own, it's easy to get dealt out of a bunch of socializing; it's worth it to be a supportive and present uncle/aunt/older cousin/family friend/whatever.
Friends that you stay close to for thirty years are special because they are rare.
It is continuing process but think it gets harder as u age coz ppl already have their core group and support network that they not very open to making new ones.
Yes I'm somewhat active in hobby groups but some folks are reluctant to hang out outside of that hobby activity. I can/wiling to be that supporting role but it feels like my circle doesn't need me.
Maybe it's a skill issue or having somewhat low confidence due to personal problem I'm currently having
That was my mid 20s-30s. I'm ~40 now and my social circle is back to doing things every few weeks now that most of the people I associate with have grown kids or are divorced. People still come in and out as they get into relationships but it's not anywhere like it was in my 20s where my entire friend group collapsed as they all got married and started having children.
Well with generation, everyone is passively being left on read.
So even if you did reach out, you'll get a response a week later, with barely any effort.
Endless unread notifications.
No wonder people have so much anxiety, no idea with what problem to deal with first.
Luckily anime taught me how to be resilient, and not that black & white stuff from fairy tales.
If I'm understanding this correctly, the line between someone who is hyper independent and someone who is really bad at relationships or someone with preference for frequent quiet and solitude is trauma.
Also I suspect the increase in people with lower social contact not by choice is due at least in part to not enough 3rd places that don't require money to hang out and meet people.
Someone who's hyper independent would prefer solitude and would likely have problems with relationships for a number of reasons including being really out of practice. And not having any reference point for understanding what a secure attachment looks and feels like.
You can have a significant preference for being alone, require a great deal of quiet time and still suffer from social isolation.
It's all interconnected, we're not designed to live a life alone.
Having said that I still wish people would stop approaching me when I leave the house :/
It is a common expression that "an artwork is never finished, only abandoned". With its allusion to oneself as an artwork, my comment was intended in jest. Now the joke has been explained, it can be abandoned.
I wonder if this correlates to an underlying trauma experienced by right-wing style preppers who are all convinced they can recreate civilization on their own in their back yards
I didn’t need this today, Nicole.
Yeah, I was doing just fine on my own!
Ferreal, tho. It's like she's implying those aren't simple, elementary facts of modern life, and judging those that don't agree with her whinge-as-wisdom, FFS. 🤌🏼
😶
Any blurb that sounds like sound psychological advice people on the Internet can use to self-diagnose will do
You ok over there, 00s kid?
I'm actually from 93. Also no not really.
Yes, I inferred that. 🤓 FYI, being born within a particular decade doesn't make you a "child of" that same period unless you were school age in it as well. Ergo, "00s kid". 🤙🏽
Also, here's hoping it picks up for ya! 🖖🏽
I’m sorry to inform you that this is not a given and most people do not feel this way. You see more people like this because you spend a lot of time on the internet. You know who else spends a lot of time on the internet? People like me who feel just as shitty as you do. We are not normal. Normal people do not visit lemmy, or know what a Linux operating system is.
I'm sorry that you feel so comfy with those little lies and acerbic fallacies, genuinely. Currently, isolation is a very real concern for many, if not most modern communities and humanity in general. The causes are legion, and the effects are often globally felt. For example, the entire country of Japan has been suffering from it for so long, they have a fucking word for the "lifestyle", FFS.
Also, fuck "normal". That's just a word unimaginative mouthbreathers use to neg people with —and there are too many of them in the world already. No need to do it to yourself (or others). 🖖🏽
Sometimes when I think "why can't I just be normal???...", I like to remind myself that there is no such think as "normal" :)
Dearest, you are coping by telling yourself that the way you feel is a fact of life. That everyone feels that way. They don’t, and you can feel better.
More negging? Ew. 🤌🏼
Just giving obvious advice.
Ffs I'm just trying to quietly make my way to the end. I'm fine.
You don't make connections because Yoh believe you will be abandoned.
I don't make connections because I know I would be a shitty friend and incapable of actually maintaining a friendship.
Not sure if this is how you meant it, but this is how I read it.
Why not both?
You have only yourself to blame
I meant a completely different kind of cream
Also I'm pleading the fifth on the ice cream
Considering the preceding sentence, I'm not sure I wanna know what you think "pleading the fifth" means. 🤢
😅
Always interesting to hear about something new I have had for decades.
People can’t let you down, if you keep your distance. I think it’s better this way.
You would think so, but no matter what people will find a way to let you down.
You could be expecting to be beaten half to death and they'll stop at a quarter.
Lol! This is pretty well the cycle for dismissive-avoidant attachment style.
Relatable
All the things I had to do to protect myself from manipulative people.
They needed my attention. I became more independent and denied giving them any attention. They don't like that I'm not giving them the attention they think they deserve so they try and turn everyone against me.
It happens often because I'm quiet and kind. They think that makes me easy to manipulate. I've become hardened to manipulators. So much to the point that physical touch with other people has become awkward or uncomfortable.
Being hyper independent is lonely, but it's better than any of the alternatives I know of.
I have just come to realize I don't like people. Nothing personal, I just don't like you.
This is correct.
Yea. Me too.
Well, shit...
You can be all that with no fear of abadonment. Not having the energy to deal with people's constant bullshit, just not particularly liking people, not being very good at talking to people and being heard and not taken advantage of- are all more than enough.
This incessant need by psychiatry to link trauma to abandonment and refuse any other reasoning, has lead to a lot of misdiagnosis, especially in women.
I'm generally not a big proponent of western therapy in general, so I'm not arguing that part of your comment, I just wanted to say - it's normal to not be very good at talking to people. Like any skill, it takes practice, which requires accepting that you'll be bad at it initially.
I did it, I went from socially awkward to people not believing me when I tell them I'm an introvert; "But you're so sociable and charismatic!". Gonna be honest, still don't really want to talk to people. Like sure, I like having discussions and hashing ideas out with an external perspective, and I'm glad I developed the skill. But I don't want to just, talk to people. It's generally exhausting.
I’m hyper independent for two main reasons:
The antidote is gratitude for the small moments and the things we do have.
I also think better experiences help. I.e. telling some friends specifically what you struggle with, they will work with it. And so when in doubt in the future, you can recall the times where asking for help was totally fine with certain people.
Yes, connection is key with those who have earned the right to hear it.
This assumes friends.
Hey, I know sometimes you really have no one to talk to and I don't wanna minimize that. Writing helps, or talking to animals, or, you know just other aspects of life. For me anyway. And I can't possibly make an all encompassing statement here that fits every situation.
But things change, and beliefs like "I can't trust anyone" can change to "I can trust this person with that", as people show up in life who are different. It doesn't have to be a friend either, can be a therapist or similar who is different from the rest, where you can actually tell them something. Or somebody in a shared hobby, etc.
This assumes I desire friends.
Alright, buddy, mate technical
I recognize myself in this one and I hate it
Same here 🥲
... So that's what it's called. I knew it couldn't just be me. What is it called when one tries not to be this way by reaching out, but finds nobody actually helps anyway?
Being right. Back to total self reliance again.
Also what's it called when you consider asking others for help, but you watch everyone in your vicinity do everything in a way that's completely the opposite of how you would, so you HAVE to do it yourself anyway, or else your OCD will cause you more stress than you've supposedly been relieved of?
I'm the opposite. I essentially plead with people for connections. No one wants to do a god damn thing anymore. It's easier to sit inside and stare at a screen. I want to do stuff and no one else really does.
There are many people who want to go out and do stuff; you haven't met them. I am in my 50s and I spent a couple decades trying to convince the friends I had to be more interested in doing, and I never succeeded. It is clear to me now that I should have been out finding my people who enjoyed the stuff I enjoy, and spending my time with them instead.
Don't be me.
It's just a matter of finding these people when there's not a lot of people interested in leaving the house.
You meet em out of the house is the trick.
Where do you find the energy? I'm so constantly exhausted from dealing with the world and life that I can barely get errands done on weekends. You must be from SEA and away from the news of the impending world war because of a dementia patient and his cavalcade of hate.
I don't know what SEA is. I have kids and hobbies. Get off the fuggin' internet, dude. I'm seriously considering leaving Lemmy now due to the doom and gloom and the acceptance of only one holier than thou opinion on very subjective issues here. The internet is an echo chamber of doom. Negativity sells like sex out here. Get off the internet. Stop staring at screens. It gets easier. News sites profit off your fear and anger, and they will continue to do so while you let them.
Southeast Asia
Yup, avoidant attachment style.
I'm generally seen as pretty emotionally open, but it's always a front, like a negotiation to give the appearance of warmth but I'm terrified to open any deeper. I feel like what people think is the core us just the rind.
Babies will actually show this behavior as well- so this trauma goes DEEP. It might even be more genetic than behavioral. They've shown when a parent leaves a baby for a bit, the baby begins to cry, but when the parent returns, there are three responses (I'll pretend a baby can speak, but this is what they say with body language):
I know I'd keep a pretty clean & minimalist room as a kids- I remember straight up saying "I want to be able to pack up my life and leave at a moments notice and no one will ever know I ever existed" when I was 10. It's still hard to believe people care about me in any meaningful way.
Weird thing- I had a very supportive childhood. Having a sister with intense ADHD was tough though since she took up 90% of my parents time, so I think that's where it comes from.
I have hyper-dependence
Mom told me that "we only care about you because we are related by blood, nobody out there will 'tolerate' your 'bullshit'¹"
¹like depression
This type of thinking is why there's a country with 1.4 billion people that's a low-trust society...
It kind of is true though. People have zero tolerance for someone who was never in their life. They might develop some if you are a friend, but you can easily burn through that. Any friends that you do have, are to be cherished.
Wow. ITT: Several people lashing out defensively at a simple definition statement, which was not directed at them, and they say doesn't even apply to themselves.
meh. some people get offended and lash out for saying you like chicken.
defensive people think everything anyone else says or does is about them.
And if it continuously gets proven correct over and over? Still just a problem with me right?
Maybe a negativity schema from a parent who was very tightly wound and anxious. Kids learn this stuff before the age of five. I know that if I have ten positive interactions and one negative then the negative one is going to dictate the narrative I tell myself about the world. If you know what to look for it makes it possible to catch yourself falling into patterns of thought, identify why and learn to see things a bit differently. It doesn't invalidate anything you've been through.
you can control yourself. you can't control other people.
figure out who is causing it.
It's clearly those fucks who stole me wee men! Usen 'em ta summon tha' bastard en yello!
This is a shit reference and I will not elaborate further unless you guess correctly.
Seen any ugly poodles lately?
Ya get it. It's old man Henderson.
This hits deep. Sometimes we don't even realize we're doing it until we're completely burnt out and wondering why we feel so alone. It takes so much courage to finally reach out and trust someone again.
I didn't know it had a name. This is 10000% me, not contacting family or friends, being perpetually single and everything literally never asking for help of any kind.
True enough.
I never ask for help since doing so earned me punishment of some kind growing up. The worst possible thing that could happen to me is if someone complemented me on something I did and my parents didn't get any credit for it. So I still am hesitant to ask for help. It has always had a very high cost.
As far as most people are concerned my parents were fine christians.
Why are you posting about me?
😐😑😐😕
Realizing this was a big ‘oh… that explains a lot’ moment for me. Learning to ask for help is a skill too.
Same moment of realization for me too...
I think I'd agree that asking for help would be a skill. In my opinion, it takes courage to put yourself out there and face all the shitty people that there may be and all the(ir) criticisms. On another note to that, getting help, getting dependant on that help, then what if it goes away? What next?
This i think is one of the things I struggle with in regards to asking for help. It's terrifying.
Just wanted to get my thoughts out. Sorry if it's not appropriate here.
Fuck off internet! DON'T ACT LIKE YOU KNOW ME!
GenX: triggered.
I'm feeling this one.
This sounds like me.
I don't really worry about abandonment at all. If anything, I'd be more worried about the opposite. People like me, and want to hang out with me, and I do not have the time, energy, or desire to hang out with most people. I've had more than my fair share of clingy, dependent "friends", and I'm not a fan. Hyper-independent aloofness has definitely spared me many additions to that unfortunate list.
I don't disagree that it's a trauma response, but not always to abandonment (I wish), but often necessity. When you have to do everything, you learn how to do everything, and eventually there's not much left to rely on other people for.
Have you tried telling people you don’t want to hang out with them? This seems like a weird problem to have.
Yes.
Hmm.
I don't ask for help out of stubbornness. I guess I never grew out of "I can do it myself!" But, now, I have no one to ask, so there's that.
I haven't had an actual friend in over 30 years. I had a roommate for four years who was the next-closest thing to a friend I had--mostly a friend, more than just a roommate, at least. Then I got married, and she seemed like a friend until she cheated on me. Other than that, I've had work acquaintances, some of whom I would occasionally hang out with outside of work, but once I quit and left, that ended, too. I've had many girlfriends over the years, but that's not really the same thing. It was never "friend with benefit", it was always benefit with friend. Once the benefit stopped, so did the friendship. So, yeah, not great at relationships.
I don't feel I've ever been outright abandoned. Apart from the divorce, the parting of ways was to some degree mutually agreed to. And, by the time the divorce was finalized, I was on board, too. You might think, "But, she cheated on you...", well, yes, but things aren't always so black and white and simple to parse.
What if I'm extremely independent because over the last four decades I have been continuously abandoned, and have learned to adapt to my circumstances?
"Hyper-Independence" is not a problem. Free association is important and strong Independence protects that.
I know there are negative psychological elements to seeking it. For instance, asking for help makes me feel a sense of debt even when people insist I owe them nothing for it. So I generally dislike asking for help because I despise debt. Its like a grain of sand in my brain that makes me want to give up.
The only time I ask for help is when I realize if I don't I will experience catastrophe without it or the damage of not asking for help will cause more regret than even any debt, imagined or real. And when it comes to that I feel self loathing as I feel like I'm taking advantage of people's generosity. And to some degree: that's true. I'll be a lot nicer to someone who's helping me if my well being depends on that help. I'll hesitate to say what I really think or believe.
Having autism, I don't want to have to follow societal social expectations either. So the more leverage I have the more I can say no or fuck off if something is just expected of people normally suddenly applies to me. Financial leverage seems like my only avenue to freedom from that nonsense. I cannot rely on allistics, and even if they come through I'll be chained down by their social expectations of behavior. Its one of the reasons I reject full collectivist ideologies, and prefer Mutualism/Market Socialism. Mutualism is the farthest left you can go while still featuring a market, and that way I don't have to navigate soft social rules to get stuff or feel guilt for getting it. The market exchange makes things fair and clean in my mind. I can say fuck off I have the money, give me what I need for it and leave me alone if I so desire and I know I'll be able to do so again in the future. There's no pressure to conform.
In a fully collectivist economy, if I separate myself from people I'd risk being viewed as unfit for the collective's well being or some shit would would have to put up with interventions into how I personally live. Maybe be told its for my own good, or be told that its only fair. I couldn't handle that kind of vulnerability so I'd have to work hard to pretend to fit in which I already know is exhausting. It'd be miserable.
People can say all they want "You don't have to try and fit in" and they're full of shit. Collectivists, communists, and "full" socialists might not realize it, but they'd subtly and unconsciously alienate or separate themselves from people like myself if I fully embraced who I am openly without masking. Or they'd insist on dictating to me how I need to do things.
I want to be free of debt (mental or real) and free of social bounds I view as stupid. I view a lot of taboos and social bounds as meaningless gibberish protecting people from things that are fundamentally harmless. I have to navigate that shit for survival, and I want to minimize that as much as possible.
damn, i can relate to your every word. Amen.
See this with my brother.
Example: I called my mom to get me water because I was super sick and he brerates me for not being an adult because hes "grown up" enough to take the risk to go down the stairs while barely able to stand up and shivering and I wont. Like wtf? she right there in the living room. Not in next province.
Shiiit. Maybe because I'm getting old and friends naturally drift away, they are just busy or prioritizing family, it feels like they don't care about me anymore. It has gotten harder to get their helo compare to my 20s
Making friends is a continuous process, or at least one that you need to return to pretty regularly. Especially when you get older and your friends start disappearing.
If you don't have kids of your own, it's easy to get dealt out of a bunch of socializing; it's worth it to be a supportive and present uncle/aunt/older cousin/family friend/whatever.
Friends that you stay close to for thirty years are special because they are rare.
It is continuing process but think it gets harder as u age coz ppl already have their core group and support network that they not very open to making new ones.
Yes I'm somewhat active in hobby groups but some folks are reluctant to hang out outside of that hobby activity. I can/wiling to be that supporting role but it feels like my circle doesn't need me.
Maybe it's a skill issue or having somewhat low confidence due to personal problem I'm currently having
Well you gotta feel right with yourself, yeah. I had my own struggles to deal with for a long time.
That was my mid 20s-30s. I'm ~40 now and my social circle is back to doing things every few weeks now that most of the people I associate with have grown kids or are divorced. People still come in and out as they get into relationships but it's not anywhere like it was in my 20s where my entire friend group collapsed as they all got married and started having children.
What about just the first 2
Well with generation, everyone is passively being left on read. So even if you did reach out, you'll get a response a week later, with barely any effort.
Endless unread notifications. No wonder people have so much anxiety, no idea with what problem to deal with first.
Luckily anime taught me how to be resilient, and not that black & white stuff from fairy tales.
It's frustrating that this term:
a) Doesn't appear in any published literature
b) Appears to have been coined in the last decade in a magazine article whose author has a degree from a non-accredited college.
But's let's just make up terms at will so we can pathologize ourselves proudly and not hurt any fee-fees!
Bitch that's called depression.
If I'm understanding this correctly, the line between someone who is hyper independent and someone who is really bad at relationships or someone with preference for frequent quiet and solitude is trauma.
Also I suspect the increase in people with lower social contact not by choice is due at least in part to not enough 3rd places that don't require money to hang out and meet people.
Someone who's hyper independent would prefer solitude and would likely have problems with relationships for a number of reasons including being really out of practice. And not having any reference point for understanding what a secure attachment looks and feels like.
You can have a significant preference for being alone, require a great deal of quiet time and still suffer from social isolation.
It's all interconnected, we're not designed to live a life alone.
Having said that I still wish people would stop approaching me when I leave the house :/
How dare you
Which turns out to be true - you are abandoned in the end:)
You know what else is inevitably abandoned? All art ever.
Why do you say that?
Is it not so?
I am asking you because idk why you said so. Like for some arguments why you think like that
It is a common expression that "an artwork is never finished, only abandoned". With its allusion to oneself as an artwork, my comment was intended in jest. Now the joke has been explained, it can be abandoned.
It can also happen when you have to deal with the cunts in the medical field.
Is gynecology really that rough?
I wonder if this correlates to an underlying trauma experienced by right-wing style preppers who are all convinced they can recreate civilization on their own in their back yards
Another case of extroverts treating introversion as a mental illness