Xi Jinping vows to reunify China and Taiwan in New Year’s Eve speech
Thoughts?
Is this imperialism by China, a country which is supposed to be left-wing? Leftists are normally anti-imperialism. Wouldn't it be better to let Taiwan democratically decide whether they want to be part of China or not?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/dec/31/xi-jinping-vows-reunification-china-taiwan-new-years-eve-speechOpen linkView original on feddit.uk399
Comments261
Lol calling China Leftist isn't quite the thing. They are technically "communist" but no more so than the National Socialist German Workers' Party was socialist.
Yeah, and no wonder why hardline Maoists hate Mainland China for what it is now, completely deviant from Maoism and becoming the very enemy they tried to destroy.
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/deng-xiaoping/1974/04/10.htm
Also, fuck the 996 System.
China isn't technically communist. The Communist Party of China is technically communist in ideology. They have implemented a type of a mixed state that has both socialist and capitalist parts, decently described by the term - socialist market economy. Or socialism with Chinese characteristics as it's been called in the past. Why socialism? Because the socialist part controls the capitalist part of the economy. Why socialist? Because it's controlled by the CPC/CCP which has over 100M members and growing, which means the wider society is decently represented within the party that controls the state.
A horse can call itself a duck, but that doesn't make it a duck; it's still a horse.
Likewise, a country that calls itself communist while practicing capitalism under a hierarchical ruling party isn't communist. Even if every member of the CCP had equal say in the country's policies and direction, 8% of the total population is far from representing the working class, let alone being led by them.
They're not communist, correct. They're capitalist.
Yup, it can and it should be much larger. I saw a chart showing membership growth of 2-3% per year. That said even at the present numbers it means every third family or so has a party member.
Again, China isn't calling itself communist. And I don't think they're. That said capital is subordinate to state control, which is subordinate to an org that most people can participate in, so personally I grant them the socialist (market economy) label that they tend to use. But I do understand why not everyone does.
To be clear, if you're not communist, it doesn't mean you're capitalist. There's a lot in between and it's often a matter of degree of one thing or another. Feudalism didn't turn into capitalism the moment the fist capitalist firm formed. It transitioned to capitalism as more and more production became capitalist, at some point becoming the dominant mode of production.
This is assuming an even distrubution. I have seen no reason to believe this. Certain segments of society are likely far more represented, which means the others are far less represented.
You mean like the parts that weren’t Mandarin Han Chinese decent?
Yeah it’s impossible to ignore what The CCP has done to vulnerable populations that they have decided need to be assimilated into their idea of a dominant culture.
That, and by class I'm sure there's disparities too. It's also likely higher in families that already have members.
It's literally the same functional mechanics as free market capitalization EXCEPT that the state owns a part of every company. The people don't. The state does. And only uses it for authoritarian control, which is the Chinese characteristic. China is functionally a capitalist market with state owned companies.
If China controlled the 3rd party companies in the country then maybe it could be construed as socialist but they own nothing about Apple or NVidia yet billions of dollars flow through them. China is an open market that uses subsidies to offset poor management in those companies. Basically the same thing America did to failing companies in 2008 (looking at you GM).
China has a large fully state-owned sector which tends to operate key industries. They also have outsized control over private firms because the banks doling out capital are state-owned. It's how they can effectively direct the private sector to build EVs, chips or whatever other strategic commodity is desired, in addition to having partial ownership in large private firms. Yes Apple and NVIDIA aren't state-owned. You can read about the state owned sector and how it affects the economy. The structure is very differrnt than the US today. It resembles somewhat FDR's US in the 1940s but with even more state control and direction.
So it's like a merger of state and corporate power?
Nice deflection, as all discussion of economic policy is nothing more. Authoritarianism (coercion through power) is right wing by definition.
Isn't any democratic structure performing coercion through power on people who comprise the minority opinion, by doing what the majority decides?
Authoritarianism (and all Right Wing politics) is about the minority performing coercion on the Majority. A political elite makes decisions. The further Right you go, the smaller the minority.
Sure, when the conservatniks are in power. Some of us still fight for progress for them and for you, even though you try endlessly to destabilize us from afar.
What the hell are you talking about? Who is "us" and who is "you" and who's destabilizing who, and from where?
Personally, I find it very similar to corporatism.
I would describe the CCP political ideology as "authoritarianism" and the economic ideology as "corporatism".
I don't really see anything about the communes, the economy is not socially owned (not run by cooperatives) and the social aspects are veeery limited.
Alternative headline:
China's authoritarian leader Xi Jinping reiterates intent to subjugate neighboring country Taiwan in New Year's Eve speech.
It's not a neighbouring country, it's the same country. Ask Taiwan.
Okay, I looked at what the current President of Taiwan has to say. He says this:
That's not the same as the PRC.
archive.is seems to be down right now.
The People's Republic of China and the Republic of China are two different governments that both claim sovereignty over mainland China and Taiwan.
They both want to unite China, but only one of them is in the position to do it.
Internal to Taiwan, there are parties that support reunification and support independence (opposing views), but Taiwan has not yet reneged on its claim of mainland China.
Their president reneged it like 30+ years ago but that doesn't mean much because it's basically baked into their constitution. Changing the constitution to reflect their real borders would require triggering a vote and a bunch of formal processes that would absolutely instigate a conflict with the PRC.
Nobody wants that, including the voting population. Thus you see a milquetoast shuffling between independence and reunification parties in order to maintain the status quo (independence for all practical purposes) without being too radical for Beijing. In terms of polling:
And when forced out of status quo, independence support jumps to out 60%. But for now they're caught in a Catch-22 that allows the PRC to spit out this propaganda that people gobble up.
Good background, thanks. Ya, catch 22 is a good way to put it... It makes it tough for other countries to recognize both PRC and ROC without offending PRC.
As @[email protected] pointed out, polling shows that Taiwanese people mostly want the status quo (de facto independence of Taiwan from the PRC) or they lean towards formally declaring independence.
As for Taiwan claiming sovereignty over China, maybe that is still in their constitution, I don't know. But I'm pretty sure modern Taiwanese leaders are not asserting this claim. Instead they seek to preserve the status quo, where Taiwan is de facto independent.
Yes, it is imperialism. Also, China has an authoritarian state controlled by a privileged ruling class and is therefore far-right.
What do you mean? 99.99% of the chinese people are charing 0.000001% of their countrie's wealth like true communists.
/s
Was just about to say the same.
Authoritarian state-capitalism is not a leftist ideology.
Could you please provide us with some data regarding wealth inequality between citizens and politicians in China vs, say, the USA for comparison?
Since China carefully controls access to information, that's functionally impossible but traditionally corruption by party officials in China was notorious and wide spread. China's only recently been able to tackle it, partially thru advances in technology, but the true extent of their success is difficult to gauge. Critics have also argued that eliminating rivals and ensuring loyalty was the true purpose of anti-coruption efforts. It's suspected that Xi Jinping's extended family has amassed a hidden fortune of around a Billion Dollars.
China hasn't exerted any political authority over Taiwan in 80 years and Taiwan declared itself a separate nation long ago, supported by the will of the people of Taiwan. Anything else is the will of a conqueror.
I wonder how many people living in Taiwan were alive back when China controlled it. Probably 90% + of the population has never known anything but independent Taiwan
100%, because Taiwan was in the Japanese Empire from 1895 to 1945, and was pretty much independent from 1945 to the KMT arrival in 1948.
Since when does an "independent Taiwan" exist?
They call themselves the "true" China to this day.
Did they declare that tho? I thought they viewed themselves as the legitimate government of all China.
No, not really. It's still in the constitution since the 1940s only because changing it would provoke a military reaction from China. Nobody actually believes it, not since CKS died in the 70s.
You are correct but you have less upvotes so you are wrong
That seems to be back in vogue these days.
China is only nominally left; they're deeply conservative, and don't exactly empower the people. They are imperialist, as was the USSR.
And Taiwan did democratically decide what they want. It would be better if China also got to democratically decide what they want.
Invading Taiwan without damaging the things that make it valuable seems tough.
They don't care about damaging things now.
Almost all of TSMC's output is now powering US' Stargate AI project. They also have their own fabs, they have equivalent to TSMC fabs (from stolen TSMC research) in larger numbers - the only reason we don't see it flooding the market here in the west is that TSMC got injunctions against all the Chinese fabs selling 7nm and smaller chips.
If TSMC is gone and Intel+Samsung can't keep up, then those injunctions are going to disappear pretty quickly to keep the economy rolling.
TSMC is no longer a card Taiwan holds, largely due to corporate greed.
The latest info we have says they don't have the equivalent high end chip prod yet but they're closing in. What you're describing would likely be the reality within several years. That said I think it's not in China's interest to take Taiwan by force since they'd have to live with it. It'll also do enormous damage to their soft power.
I think China does fervently wish that they can just "close in" to high end chip fabrication, but it's not that easy. We'll see, though.
For sure. It's gonna be bad for TSMC but I'm cautiously optimistic for its effect on us regular non-US peasants. Especially given the shortages created by the AI bubble. Should lower the cost of compute.
TSMC was never a card. China has been wanting Taiwan since before TSMC exists. Taiwan is in a strategic geographic location that makes it difficult to project its navy. It's the same reason the US controls Hawaii, Midway, Guam, and many other seemingly useless pacific islands in the middle of nowhere.
Conquering Taiwan is more about pride and ego then any material gain, though the Island has strong maritime strategic value.
Famously what happened during German unification
Except that was a peaceful process, not an invasion/annexation. Because part of Taiwan’s strategic defense policy is “we will melt our chip fabs to slag if the PRC invades”. Thus, they hold a gun to the head of pretty much all of the most advanced chip fabrication in the world, which most of the rest of the world has a vested interest in keeping working.
The only invasion I'm seeing is US Navy vessels encircling the island and threatening their economy.
That's been the American line for going on ten years. But the real gun has always been the Pacific Fleet, threatening to repeat the crimes of Vietnam on Chinese civilians, much like they did in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, and now Venezuela and Nigeria.
Saying this on the same day that Chinese warships encircled Taiwan.
Guy who has never seen a world map
Wtf are you talking about? Imperialist China just finished encircling Taiwan in a "defense exercise"
You think the USA is going to start an aggressive boots-on-ground assault on China?
Wouldn't be the first time
China is a nuclear power. With a much larger population than the USA. What exactly do you imagine the hypothetical war-goals would be here?
Dude is high on his own supply. China is simultaneously the weakest and strongest global power depending on what argument needs to be made
I must be going colorblind because those ships are flying a very red American flag...
Lol wtf? Unless you really bought dubya's WMD bullshit, one of these countries is not like the others... I really doubt that any Chinese civilian on Chinese soil is going to get so much as a dirty look from any US armed forces...
You're spitting distance from the coast of Fujain. I gotta wonder why you'd expect to see an American warship on the Chinese coastline.
Unless...
Crazy how it's international waters when an American warship is in them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_espionage_in_China
Never said shit about it being international waters or claimed the US Navy was never there, we were talking about encircling Taiwan which the PRC literally just did. I hope you have the same decorum about US ships totally not practicing invasions of Mexico (😉). It's right over the border after all.
Come on champ, you can do better than that. We're talking about big scary warships and military bases and all you can link me is some run of the mill espionage shit? And it's on Wikipedia no less, I'm gonna need to revoke your tankie card.
You're name dropping Iraq and Afghanistan and Vietnam, I need a chance of a military occupation or some Hueys blaring CCR. Give me a real military threat that requires a show of force on this puny island. If flimsy proxy wars counted the USA would be the #1 most righteous belligerent in every conflict from 1945 onward with how much the KGB/GRU tickled them.
How do Chinese ships depart from Fujain without encircling Taiwan? Literally look at your own maps. They're neighbors.
Might as well declare Australia is encircling New Zealand.
Are these international waters or aren't they? Do ships have right of passage or don't they? Or is it your belief that Taiwanese waters are American territory?
You want to play at denialism then scream about foreign aggression. No wonder nobody takes your foreign policy seriously anymore
Xi Jinping is an evil scumbag whose goal is to destabilize the world. China needs and deserves Taiwan just as little as Russia needs Crimea.
Taiwan's sovereign status should be ratified in UN asap.
Unfortunately that won't happen unless Republic of China declares to become an independent state of Taiwan. In their current form, they claim to be the legitimate government of mainland People's Republic of China too. I think it's safe to assume that they won't get their lands back, but it is not up to me to advise govt affairs.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure that Taiwan would be happy to be just Taiwan instead of Republic of China, if that got them their UN recognition.
Constitution of the Republic of China (Taiwan) : Constitution of the Republic of China (Taiwan)
Sure.
If People's Republic of China agreed to ratify their UN membership and ratify them as a country if they just changed their name to Taiwan, you think they couldn't get 75% of their government & 50% of the people to vote for the name change?
I claim that their name has nothing to do with why People's Republic of China is threatening them with an invasion and forceful annexation.
Calling it annexation is the pan-green position of the DPP. The other major ROC position of the KMT (pan-blue) would never use annexation because it would infer that the PRC is legitimate.
The PRC, of course, would also not use annexation. They would claim reunification of the country from a seperatist groups like the DPP.
I feel odd having to say this, but because I understand the other side doesn't mean I agree with them. Its important for me to understand the major positions in this conflict.
You are wrong.
Does me saying that help you notice that you are wrong?
They call themselves oficially the "true" govern of China to this day, and their internal diplomacy is based on that.
Well, no, if you just say it. Duh. Who do you think you are?
I feel like you totally did not read the last sentence of my comment, so I'll quote it here so you can be sure not to miss it!
No-one in the government of Taiwan considers themselves the true government of China. But they're stuck with the old constitutional claims from the 1940s still on the paper because any change to reflect reality would be called a "declaration of independence" by China, and trigger a military reaction.
You don't think that people in the KMT would? I think there are still some who hold that view and would never say it because it's brings waaaay too much heat and no political points. Rather, the KMT has shifted to cultural identity position.
"We are the original China; we don't need to declare independence because we are already the masters of our own (ROC) house." - Chairwoman Cheng
They have a better claim then the government in Beijing but ultimately lack the force to back it up. They should have just dropped the pipe dream years ago.
They lost a civil war and retreated from the land. How is that a better claim?
Xi's claim to legitimacy is based on the threat of violence. The President of Taiwan's legitimacy is based on being chosen by the people. It's called Consent; something the Beijing regime has always lacked and been indifferent to.
Winning an election in Taiwan doesn't give them a claim to mainland China. This isn't relevant.
And not winning any elections doesn't give Xi Jinping any claim to mainland China either.
Winning the civil war and controlling the land does.
Uhh, citation needed? Communism by name only does not a left wing country make
So it's never left unless things work perfectly fine? It's always fake left? China's government control of the economy is very very lefty.
I'm left myself, but this easy escape by some left people really annoys me. Things can only improve if one acknowledges the mistakes and flaws.
I mean it's the same reason the Nazis weren't socialist despite being the national socialist party. It's in name only. I don't see a single way in which China is making steps towards becoming a stateless, classless, moneyless society.
Nazis were national-socialists, the contradiction was in the name already. But they also had socialists as main enemies.
China is ruled by the communist party who still issues vast left literature. If China is not left, no country is left or ever will, as there are no perfect countries and that seems to be the condition number one to count as real left.
Isn't it just such a fucking coincidence you have all these assholes coming to the same conclusions at the same time?
Putin invaded Ukraine and would love to Hitler his way across Europe in the name of "unity."
Trump invades Venezuela, yet pretends to be an antiwar isolationist only taking necessary action to protect the U.S. from the flow of fentanyl (which has never been coming from Venezuela, but why let facts get in the way of a shitty narrative).
Now China will invade Taiwan and the U.S. will refuse to get involved because Trump is totally an "isolationist." (At least when it comes to other continents).
Yep. Totally a coincidence and not a shared strategy for a global fascist takeover by a new axis of evil.
Better look out for 500 old ladies to help over the street to get back to a neutral social credit score 😅😆
My social credit is like my financial credit - solidly on the road to Chapter 7.
One sentence that fell during the Merkel phone spying affair:
Don't think of countries as people; people have morals and one direction they go. This to some of the comments here.
I think you could argue that the five Nordic nations are pretty friendly with each other, and it's not just interests. The Nordic Council works very well. I can't think of anywhere else on Earth I could argue this though.
West Taiwan: baby let's get back together!
Taiwan: no! you were an asshole to me!
West Taiwan: I wasn't asking.
Taiwan: this is what I'm fucking talking about!
The break-up was a little different... Chiang Kai Shek was just as much of a monster as Mao. He was just a capitalist monster so the west supported him.
He was just as much of a monster after he was driven off of the mainland.
He and Reverend Moon directly funded literal Nazi death squads in South America.
But that fucker is dead, and Taiwan is a functional democracy, unlike the mainland.
They don't want to "unify", they can see what happens to places China "unifies" with.
For the first time ever in my life, I see someone claiming that China is left-wing. Left and authoritarian are usually at the opposite spectrums.
That is what Animal Farm was talking about - that authoritarianism can take over any political ideology. It isn't a anti-communism book, but anti-authoritarianism.
You must have .ml blocked
Communism is supposed to be a left-wing position right? But I'm saying I'm not sure I would see China as properly leftist given their behaviour. Wanting to take external territory potentially by force seems imperialist to me, and I would see imperialism as a right-wing behaviour.
I think you need to have a clearer idea of what left wing and communism are, how the CCP, PRC, and China are different, and know the CCP's argument for Taiwain is. Relately, it would be important to know the ROC's claim as well.
Once you know what communism is, you'll have to ask yourself is the PRC communism? Can a single nation state be communist? How can a single party be legitimately move a government to communism through authoritarian means? How would it work otherwise? Is the CCP position on Taiwain imperialism? Does that argument hold water?
Communism does not exist. I consider myself a leftie but I don't believe in communism, it has never worked and will never work.
What lefties actually believe in (including those who think communism can work) are social systems (part of socialism, which looks like communism, but that's the difference - balance versus extremity). China's social systems are supposedly very good, but they're still capitalists (which isn't necessarily bad if the government does it's job like in most of EU and according to many - China)
Tell that to Mao and Stalin's victims.
from what i've learned (through experience, not through books), left-wing people don't like oppression and control as long as they're the ones being controlled.
as soon as they're the one controlling others, however, the tide changes. you can see this in germany where self-described leftists want to tell other people that they can't drive fossil fuels driven cars anymore ("gegen die Technologieoffenheit") or that everybody has to install a heat pump in their homes. the complete opposite of letting other people live their lifes un-interfered. all of this is justified with the supposed "higher good" (mitigating climate change). you can see where this is going ... authoritarianism, unfortunately.
But utilitarian measures are there to protect and improve lives. Banning fossil fuels would piss off a minority group, while saving orders of magnitude more human lives. Similar groups have whined about seatbelts, airbags, gas vs. electric/induction ranges, even the amount of water flowing in the toilet bowl.
It's not like there aren't alternatives to ICE vehicles, nor are people being limited in travel or told they can't drive. It will really only take one or two generations for the butthurt whining "authoritarianism" to become a footnote in history. By then, burning gasoline for basic travel will seem as ridiculous as keeping a horse and buggy at the ready does now.
I hope the EU and nations in the Asian sphere decide to have a military alliance. Taiwan is pretty dang valuable, and also shouldn't be bullied for the sake of some strongman's wet dream.
That is dumb. TSMC is comprised of the world's foremost experts in chip technology. They are people, and probably would like to stay in their homeland. Furthermore, it takes at least a decade to build the infrastructure to create microchips, which requires extremely stable geology. A power outage or an earthquake can cause lithography machines to miss their target, ruining months of work.
TSMC is intrinsically tied to the land and people.
And China only cares about Taiwan for the land and the image it projects of “reunifying China”. They don’t care about the people in Taiwan since a vast majority don’t want to be invaded by China.
Look at how well the Hong Kong “reunification” went.
Ok tankie. Let me take over your house and if you don’t like me, you can leave.
What a clown.
to where?
sure, that's why Taiwan is located on one of earth's most active earthquake regions
edit: bad cropping of image is not my fault, i found it like that on the internet and am to lazy to find another one
edit: here's another one
Are you enlisted in the armed forces of an EU country? Or are you just a militaristic hypocrite who wants to send others to die?
No, and no.
Let's be frank: Taiwan doesn't want to belong to anyone, not China nor the west. However, it is a small country that has to use what its got, if it wants to maintain independence. Exchanging access to their chip supply for military aid is likely their best bet for not becoming a forgotten checkmark on Xi's list of "accomplishments".
Also, China has armed merchant vessels with weapons. It is pretty damn clear that China wants to start a fight. Given their behavior against the Philipines, India, and Taiwan, it is clear that China intends to hurt people. It is madness to not prepare for a conflict and push back, else China will enact their imperialist agenda. Be it against the USA, Russia, or China, smaller nations should do what they can to avoid being trod upon. Teaming up is the best way to do that.
China Arms a Container Ship | Picket/Surveillance | First Strike | Cost Effective | Expendable
"The geopolitically opposite country of mine is the evil imperialist invader, we need to arm ourselves in self-defense and defense of human rights!"
-All state propaganda from all countries participating in WW1
Go ahead, enlist yourself, hypocrite
Now is the perfect time for them to do it, I can see why! America may not even respond.
Yes, I know we are an ally and we're supposed to immediately go to war. So what? We promised to defend Ukraine from Russia, too. Look what happened.
Japan has openly vowed to defend Taiwan if China invades.
How will that stop China? Japan's military is very limited (by design).
Japan is but a USA lapdog. They won't do anything that would displease their master.
I don't know about that. Most of the world isn't happy with the US right now. They may have been the case 10 or 15 years ago.
Well... current PM of Japan self-identifies as Trumpist.
As a side note, she also admires Margaret Tatcher. And also has complimented Hitler's policies.
Well that sounds "fun"
The perfect time is in 10 years when China is so technological advanced and culturally leading that the majority wants to join voluntarily.
As it is now, I don't think there would be any armed resistance to China without American opposition.
China is already backing Russia though, the safer course would be to just wait it out until the dollar collapses. On the other hand, such a war may be the last straw on the camel's back for the USA.
it really sucks for the 90%+ of Taiwanese people who don't want to become part of China
They literally moved to the Island of Formosa to escape it
WW3 all the imperialists are acting at once
Well Russia was allowed to try imperialism, China can't resist being upstaged.
Yeah, and it was a shit deal for the U.S. colonies, particularly still Puerto Rico which is governed without representation in the government.
It was shit when we did it, it was shit when the European powers did it, and it will be shit if China does it to Taiwan.
"No taxation without representation*"
*Only applies to the USA, not to its
colonies"territories"DC is also in the USA and is taxed without representation. But Puerto Rico is even worse consigned to second-class citizenship due to the Jones Act.
When you have to go back 132 years (Hawaii) and 128 years (Puerto Rico) to find a whataboutism you can throw back in a commenter's face - it's probably not very contributory to the conversation.
Why bring up a failing empire like the states at all for a topic on China? Why do you think american exceptionalism needs to be a thing in any and all discussions? No one likes america when it americans all over the place, and the same goes for having to have the same whataboutisum conversation all the time.
China being an asshat on the world stage is not diminished by pointing at the united chuckle nuts of america and saying "but what about what theeeeey did".
Hawaiian natives voted to become a state seeking protection from various robber Barrons who were exploiting their land. Prior to that the US government generally took measures against the plantation owners at request of the locals. Yes, that imperialism kind of originated from the US, but it wasn't like an invasion and subjugation.
Puerto rico was ceded to the US after ot defeated Spain in the Spanish American war. It was quickly granted a form of pseudo independence, but then voted for protectorate status over full independence in the early 1900s.
There is an expression in science that needs to be used more in polysci 'all models are wrong" The right wing vs left wing political spectrum is a model of political ideologies and a very simplistic one at that. It is also used interchangeably for fundamentally different political tenants. Large government-small government, authoritarian - libertarian, capitalist - socialist. Models are only as good as their ability to predict reality and they are always wrong, they are just simplified models of reality. The moment you are confused saying "but if this country is X-wing, why are they Y" You are either misunderstanding the model, misapplying the model, or are misunderstanding the actual value of a model.
The full expression is "all models are wrong, but some are useful"
The expression is often expanded to that, it is not an incomplete expression without though.
Pretty sure tawain ain't interested in being absorbed back by China.
Yeah, no shit. "Reunify" is a euphemism.
It's a lie. Taiwan has never been part of the PRC, so it's impossible to re-unify.
Tomato tomato.
IMO china is making a mistake here. there's one way to poison yourself and that is to eat something that does not want to be eaten. and the same is the case here. china is a successful country and they could just call that a win and leave it at that. instead, they (think they) have to swallow taiwan, and they will poison themselves. they will get a lot of people into their country that do not want to become a part of china, and they will seek to destroy china from the inside, which is much easier to do than from the outside, and this could become a real danger to china. china should not seek to conquer taiwan against the will of its people.
China has some really big domestic issues right now with record unemployment rates so naturally their drumming up nationalism to distract people. Though AI boom is carrying China through and I really hope they back down.
From what I see on Tiktok right now the propaganda machine is in full swing. Every video on Taiwan is spammed by bots saying "Taiwan is China". With Taiwan's opposition blocking defense budget it 100% seems like China will go through political offense first before invading.
I understand your point, but they seem to have subjugated Hong Kong pretty successfully. I would agree with you more if that hadn't recently happened.
Well the PLA has barracks inside HK since the handover from the UK. On the other hand, blockading or invading Taiwan would be the largest amphibious invasion in human history
Hong Kong is a small tax haven - Taiwan is a full independent country. I really think we've past the point where physical annexation can work with guerilla warfare and sabotage being so easily accessible in this day and age. I think CCP agrees that's why it'll take a decade to wear Taiwan down still
Are they going to conquer or are they just pretending?
The USA has killed the USSR by forcing them into an arms race. China already has the bigger production capabilities. All the bases and aircraft carriers cost resources that cannot be used elsewhere while China still has several hundred million people who seek employment.
Does this mean Lai Ching-te is gonna to be the president of One China?
You've apparently never spoken to a Marxist-Leninist though some would argue they are not Leftists.
There is a second axis between libertarian and autoritarian.
Ok, that's not Left-Right though. Left-Right is no kings and kings which over time go expanded into a political spectrum with Anarchy on the Far Left and Absolute Monarchy/Dictatorships on the Far Right.
Taiwan is too strategically important to the United States and Taiwan two difficult an invasion target for this to happen.
It's just political posturing.
Is the US really a dependable ally?
In this case, yes. The fabs there are far too important to let them slip control. Now, if we could just build some fabs in Ukraine.
They're not a dependable ally but they need them. I would never depend on the United States being benevolent but I would depend on needing Taiwan to secure strategically important resources like semiconductors.
I think you would be right with any other government in America's history, not sure if you are with the current regime.
From what I've read, generally-speaking, the US expectation is that the US would win a conflict with China over Taiwan, but that the US would take serious naval losses in doing so.
I suppose that China could have a different view of the matter, though.
I think that a more-compelling argument is that if you, in fact, intend to invade Taiwan at any point in the remotely near future, you're probably better off just invading it, not loudly announcing that you will do so at some unspecified point in the future and then sitting around while the potential invadee fortifies itself.
💯
I can see these announcements as placating domestic audiences and the military drills as discouraging the US from a potential intervention by signalling higher difficulty and losses.
West Taiwan sabre rattling.
Posturing plus demonstrating they can blockade Taiwan in case the US decides to send the cavalry stationed close by.
E: BTW the US and TSMC are continually working to diminish Taiwan's stratrgic importance to the US by building fab capacity in the US.
The long game of Beijing politics is to just be nice to Taiwan while Americans grow increasingly unhinged.
Not sure how threatening forceful unification every few months comes under "being nice".
Liberals will be in the middle of a bombing run on Venezuela and stop to complain about Chinese aggression
I don't at all like, nor agree with the current USA administration rhetoric or potential plans towards Venezuela - but that doesn't have any relevance whatsoever to Chinese aggression and antagonism towards Taiwan, nor the fact that the Taiwanese - from their perspective - have way more to fear from China than the USA.
Two things can be bad.
Yup. The trends of rising standard of living in China plus the stagnation and self-destruction of the US are both pointing to closer ties between Taiwan and China over the long term - over the coming decades. Even today the majority in Taiwan prefers status quo and not independence. There's pro-idependence and pro-unification minorities. Besides, I don't think the Chinese want to deal with a separatist population and all the instability that causes, which would imevitaby follow if they annex by force.
The majority in Taiwan have always preferred status quo. That's what happens when you border a much larger neighbour that would see any overt move to officially declare independence (as in rebrand as Taiwan officially) as justification to invade.
That's just the Taiwanese being self-aware to notice large power disparities and not wanting to rock the boat. Actual unification support with China polls about in the 10-15%. Lower than the "move to independence" bloc.
No disagreement. I just think that there's a good chance for things to move in the unification direction because of these economic trends over the long haul. Might not happen that way. There's probably also a good chance to stay status quo for decades. Independece is very unlikely I think because the potential countries to recognize Taiwan are critically dependent on China in various ways, and declining in economic power.
This is a declaration of war IMO. By one old dude against the whole world order (the international laws).
I'm not excusing the USA, two bad does not make right.
As an American I'm happy to see China kept in its place until it can compete with America on the human rights it gives its citizens. America might exercise ill-acquired and unethical hegemony over the world at times but apart from maybe the EU theres not another superpower candidate I'd trust more with that hegemony.
Oh, same! Yeah we've got a lot to do to fix this country, for sure. Kind of exciting to know we have the opportunity to fix how we want it considering the unprecedented dysfunction
You mean the disappearing of tens of thousands of people who get kidnapped on the streets by militarized fascist police? Or are we talking about the highest imprisonment on Earth, with 1 in 5 black men going through prison?
Why does every fucking topic, no matter how far it is from US, ends up with someone ranting about US?
Because the US just sold them $11b worth of weapons? You act like the US is not involved in any way.
whataboutism isn't to dismiss the point. whataboutism is to put things into context and establish proportionality.
what was the reaction internationally when the US invaded other countries? that allows you an approximate estimate of what will happen when china invades other countries.
China and Taiwan are already at war. The Chinese civil war never had any truce, armistice, surrender, or anything. ROC pulled back to Taiwan, PRC didn't follow, and then it just stopped.
I don't really see how this is any different than 50 or 20 years ago, they're just stating their geopolitical stance.
More to the point, as others have mentioned, it would be exceedingly difficult to invade Taiwan and capture their fabs intact.
Actually it wouldn't even matter if they captured them intact because the US could just eliminate the supply line, making it unideal for production to continue for several years.
And unlike Ukraine, the US actually has a lot of interest and dependency on Taiwan, meaning they would get militarily invovled immediately.
China's only benefit would be the elimination of the world's primary chip manufacturing, and unrestricted access to the Pacific ocean.
I only see them doing it after they've achieved complete independence from Taiwan's fabs in their own supply chain.
Assuming Trump is rational. I'm not sure if he is.
And pax silica will lessen the geopolitical fallout by ensuring there is fab redundancy outside of Taiwan.
For those unfortunate enough to live in a country which doesn't generally teach economic policy.
Economic systems are tangencial to political systems.
You can have left wing democracies or dictatorships. Same with right win. It can be a democracy or a dictatorship or anything in between.
That really depends on your definition of 'left-wing'.
Because I would argue that 'left-wing' is not only a descriptor for a political agenda. It also that includes economic issues. To me an economic system is pretty important part of a political system.
For instance, I would say that 'free market communism' doesn't exist. I would also say that 'authoritarian communism' doesn't exist. To me authoritarian and socialistic ideas are not compatible, because power is in the hands of an elite, and control mechanisms of that power were never strong enough. Control mechanisms of democracies worked generally better, but democracies also need to be properly defended and maintained.
Frankly, a part of me suspects that whole AI RAM and SSD hoarding rush into "data centers" that aren't even plugged to a power plant is a manufactured market push to begin hoarding electronic components before China invades Taiwan. I suspect a lot of oligarchs would be less willing to feed the AI bubble if they didn't have a post-Taiwan invasion world to compensate their investments if it doesn't work out. You think there's scarcity now, just wait until the invasion happens. China invading Taiwan is going to make China lose a lot of support, one has to wonder what they think they will get out of it.
Taiwan would not have such a big target on its back if it weren't for TSMC. TSMC should have diversified throughout the world yesterday, but because of wealth and power, Taiwan has to pay the price. The politics and arguments are gaslighting; China isn't interested in Taiwan, they are interested in controlling the market necessary for even basic modern warfare - advanced microchips. I don't know if its due to the greed that they are blind to it or perhaps they are perfectly aware of it, but attacking Taiwan will be treated as an attack against the world by many countries. It will provoke a reaction several times worse than what Russia attacking Ukraine did. By driving down their viability as a trading partner, they will make a lot of countries consider other options that are way outside of the contemporary political landscape today.
china already has the capability to produce advanced microchips themselves (it was in the news literally 3 days ago, i'm too lazy to search it out rn) and they've been heavily investing in research into microchips the last year so it makes sense they made significant progress.
on the other hand, the us is already building chip capabilities in its own country to become independent from taiwan and so taiwan doesn't have the significance internationally anymore that it used to have.
i'm even inclined to say that china waited deliberately for taiwan to lose its international status before attacking, so other countries wouldn't rush to its aid so much.
They don't, they are approaching it but don't have the scale. The people smuggling NVIDIA chips instead of using Huawei for AI would be laughing at these claims.
The US is and would be if they were preparing to back out of a conflict between the US and Taiwan. It would take several decades for TSMC capability to be distributed across different countries, even the US isn't going to reach it. I don't know where you are getting the notion that Taiwan is "losing its international status" when the first multitrillion company in the world and its customers is so dependent on it. Taiwan's "international status" isn't conditioned on the companies they can bully to keep from recognizing criticism coming from over there regarding mainland China, it's industrial, technological, and military.
I can agree with some of the things you've said elsewhere. China is a successful country, and given time it will surpass Taiwan in terms of advanced microchip manufacture. It could even decide a fast one by not invading one and essentially causing the bursting of the AI bubble to be that much worse for US investors that have gone all in on it.
The problem with China is that it is also facing economic problems itself, which usually causes the more deranged and desperate notions to be the deciding factor. The enemies it is making internationally and their attempts to impose their will over other countries and their industrial sectors in its rise to power also isn't helping it out, and they aren't even trying or capable of winning a cultural war when part of it requires a great amount more censorship than the societies they want to impose on. It is under an authoritarian government that still has a lot of its founding military mindset. If China was forward thinking and was capable of using PR to control their messaging instead of suppression, they would be a lot more successful and a lot less prone to the internal corruption they now have to deal with, often severely in place of effectively.
TSMC was developed by a Taiwanese citizen to be a "silicon shield" - it's too valuable for other countries to risk a war.
It's why trump was trying to cajole TSMC to move 50% production to the US and they were like "nah"
It became an opportunity, and US investors and interests needed to project power around the globe and a means to tie power around the region. It has its days numbered because China is slowly becoming a more capable competitor, but China's obsession in invading it will not only it but will work towards the interests of other geopolitical powers in and outside the region.
What you claim has also gone the way of USAID when Trump came in: https://pr.tsmc.com/english/news/3210 It was a soft power technique that put US interests ahead through mutual interests, but Trump doesn't believe in mutual interests, just winners and losers like most despots.
It's the other way round. Taiwan is needed for airfields and to deny deep sea submarine bases to China. The US let Taiwan have the monopoly on advanced semiconductors to have the world defend Taiwan against China.
That's not "the other way around", that's just why it got to where it is.
Well, if the US gets tied up in Venezuela + a fickle leader + internal issues, the EU in Ukraine, Asian allies like Japan and Korea still figuring things out, then 2027-2030 does seem like the opportune time to invade.
Perhaps Kim Jong Un, Iran, and/or Israel will take the opportunity to try something, too.
China will give Trump something to look the other way when they re-take Taiwan, and he'll do it. There will be a huge outcry from both sides, but he will order Hegseth to stand down, and since he's Commander-In-Chief, Hegseth will do it.
There might be an impeachment, but no conviction, and the American people don't know or care enough about Taiwan to want to go to war against China, and eventually it will blow over, and leave another black mark on Trump's legacy, which he won't care about because he got a plane, or a boat, or a pile of money, or permission to build a Trump Tower in Taiwan, or something.
We've already seen this scenario over and over, in Syria, in Qatar, etc. He is up for sale, and EVERYBODY knows it.
In Trump's world, there's a price tag on EVERYTHING, and China can afford it. They know that this would be their easiest chance to get it, and I doubt they'll let that opportunity pass.
If the only issue is chips, they'll promise him access to the chips, as well as the bribe. He'll take that without hesitation, they'll renege on their promise, but it will be too late to do anything about it.
I'd be amazed if China didn't take advantage of the current inept and corrupt American government.
China isn't leftist.not even a bit.
Putin 2.0
The USA accepted One China since Jimmy Carter.
The US's One China interpretation is that it "acknowledges" China's position, not passing judgement about that position.
Anyways, One China One Taiwan, two countries across the Strait
And does not challenge that position either.
We still posting "news" like it's 1921.
FTFY
Well, hope nobody needs a graphics card any time soon.
maybe fix your population crisis, and your HCOL, and the oversaturated degrees leading to low job prospects in your country before trying to distract the populace with "invading taiwan"
Chinese imperialists will stop at nothing to hurt working class people. Luckily Taiwan isnt intimidated by bullies.
Reunite? I thought there was already only one China?
Lousy leader in the game. Gotta do better to win that popularity contest AND charm the pants off the rest of the world to be a real champ. He’s got his hero base at home & somewhat abroad. It just isn’t enough, to quote Nigel Tufnel in the Spinal Tap Series. Even though “These go to 11” , I feel that it is a slow win & China is the future of the world. Winnie the Pooh just ain’t got enough oomph to maintain the grasp.
Weird way to announce your surrender but ok
Not only taiwan. He also vowed to unity arunachal pradesh.
So Winnie the Pooh wants to challenge pedo donny for the Nobel peace price?
Mainland China now is but communist only in name. So-called "Xi Jinping Thought" is the current setting.
That's why hardline National Democrats (NatDems), which the Maoist far left in my country call themselves, see Mainland China as an enemy as much as the United States.
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/deng-xiaoping/1974/04/10.htm
Deng once said of his denouncement of what he then called "social imperialism". Unfortunately prosperity brought in part by Western industry seeking for cheap labor is what partly pushed for the reversal of roles, whereupon Mainland China now gets more exceptionalism than its rivals, and is looking to complete its own "manifest destiny".
They never claimed to have a communist system to begin with. That is a western label placed upon them. Communist parties do not implement communist systems any more than green parties implement "green systems." They implement socialist systems.
Comparing this conflict to "manifest destiny" is just complete brainrot and doesn't make it seem like you are that interested in understanding the actual historical circumstances. This is an unresolved civil war due to the USA's invasion to protect one side of the civil war, which in China is viewed naturally as a major attack to their sovereignty so allowing a foreign power to just cut a piece of them off is viewed negatively due to the Century of Humiliation of them being carved up by foreign powers.
Both sides also agreed to the reunification of China and this "one-china policy" became internationally recognized by almost the entire world, and it was not until the year 2000 that Taiwan de facto stopped agreeing with this policy. You can make an argument that Taiwan's fairly recent desire for sovereignty should be respected without resorting to bizarre comparisons like Manifest Destiny, as this is obviously not what is going on for anyone who is intellectually honest about the situation at all.
This is not even an economic dispute and so trying to use Marxian analysis and throwing around buzzwords like "imperialism" is irrelevant. One of the biggest reasons the PRC hasn't invaded Taiwan is because they would be harmed from the destruction of TSMC, so if anything economic reasons are discouraging the PRC form acting than encouraging it. The desire for China to reunify with Taiwan is a cultural and historical disagreement, it is more of an ego thing. They view the splitting off of Hong Kong by the British, Macau by the Portuguese, and Taiwan by the USA as attacks on their national sovereignty and thus to their national pride, and have vowed to bring them all back into the fold for decades now, and Taiwan is the only one left.
It is really an ego thing more about national pride. Again, you can indeed argue that they their national pride shouldn't override Taiwan's right to self-determination, but it is not as deep as you make it out to be. If you read some of those Marxian books you would find that invasions for "imperialism" is supposed to have the goal of expanding to new markets, but China is already Taiwan's biggest trading partner by miles, they already dominate their market.
You are trying to make this way deeper than it actually is. This is about one state's ego and national pride vs another state's desire for self-determination. It is not some deep analysis over capitalism or socialism or imperialism.
Taiwan wasn't even part of the civil war you use as the basis of your argument. It wasn't even part of the ROC until the allies gave it to be under the administration of the ROC, sovereignty to be decided at a later date peacefully, following the UN Charter.
Framing this as a frozen civil war is ridiculous, but it's the only way the PRC has some claim to Taiwan.
I read the first sentence and stopped. Not worth reading the rest and does not deserve an actual reply.
When did the Chinese Civil War start? When did the Chinese Civil War end (/you believe was frozen)? Between those two points in time, who had sovereignty over Taiwan?
That's a bold statement, China has unproven capabilities to invade Taiwan.
They're working on it. The ships have goddamn feet
Unproven but vast resources are being spent on expanding those capabilities
Whomp there goes another treaty
I thought China followed lunar calendar??? 🤔
Why NOT a confederal union?
China only wants centralized power. Don't get suckered into any government structure with China or lose not just democracy but all political rights and human rights. Beijing owns your ass
Do you think China would've become a libertarian socialist country?
They have had ample opportunity to renounce their authoritarian bullshit. Stop the fantasy. I do not believe in good intentions looking at China's civil rights situation right now
Do you think I should study socialist/communist theory, and if so, do you have anything from https://redsails.org/ that you can recommend?
No, I think you should lay off the communist theory to be honest. I'm with you politically, socialism is the greatest and we should promote equal distribution of wealth, power and knowledge. But beware, ML/Tankie is like a conspiracy theory that you should be very careful not to fall into. It's not the same what the book says and what the politician waving the books did
And definitely avoid Red Sails. https://redsails.org/mission/
Also, I think you should say what you think of Marxism-Leninism (without being too critical about it) on [email protected]. Seriously!
I am very critical of it. It's authoritarian and can only lead to horrible dictatorships. This is because "the public is too dumb to decide what's good for them" is built into the ideology. You will end up with strongmen or party loyalists corrupting any good intentions there may have been in the beginning. They're going to enrich themselves and give themselves more power, every time.
New aristocracy, same as the old aristocracy
I'm going to stop here, give you the last word. Thanks!
Why NOT Red Sails?
Damn, thanks for pointing me to that wonderful mission. Definitely bookmarking this website
What, like Hong Kong? How's that going for them?
Extreme left is the same as extreme right. Soviet Union was also left wing but they were very imperialist as well and oppressing. Basically like the Nazis but in denial.
Authoritarianism and leftism are incompatible ideologies. The PRC and USSR both failed at their worker revolutions and swiftly ended up with corrupt oligarchy still controlling the means of production and hoarding the fruits of production. That's not left-wing, that's the far-right con game.
You are saying the same thing. He just skips the bullshit everyone peddles on purpose or still eats up the propaganda.
Soviets and bolsheviks were never communists.
They were fascists all along.
You think nazis did not believe they were doing it for the good of all? Come the fuck on.
So now we are trying to justify them by saying that communist regimes were not really communist? I get that ideally Marx had good ideas, but the way they turn out seems to me it's always the same. Someone has to have control and actually make a plan and people are greedy and have lust for power, that's the reality. Also it's not like I'm inventing anything, that's the shoe horse theory.
Stalinism, of which China uses a modernized version of, is the conservatism of leftism. It might have some leftist goals, but otherwise its main goal is conserving the status quo.
Dude. No.
Extreme right equates to genocide of anyone deemed unworthy.
Extreme left equates to a lot of regulations to keep any company from treating people differently based on group affiliation. Often blindly and without understanding there are exceptions. Basically a belief in left wing social progression but extreme and without an understanding of the why.
They aren't the same. At all.
Auth left and auth right share many similarities
There's no such thing as Auth Left, they're just Right Wingers in love with collectivization who tell people they're Left
Authoritarian is independent of left or right.
It's just wanting control over people.
Dude yes, don't be a tankie. Soviet Union for instance was not kind to Jews, Poles, homosexuals, or people with a faith exactly the same way as Nazi Germany, just replace labour camp with gulag. They literally kept countries under Russian thumb with tanks and the second they could get freedom everyone choose independence.
You are confusing authoritarianism with social politics.
Authoritarianism can exist in both far right. Right. Center. Left. And far left.
It's independent of that aspect of political affiliation.
The Nazis weren't left. And neither was Russia.
You have an actual example of pro diversity and inclusion people killing groups they don't like?
I'm rooting for China. Taiwanese are cucked.
You can hate US imperialism AND hate Chinese imperialism.
It's actually quite easy if you just fucking hate imperialism.
Cucked? What weird use of language
It's a common term on the Right
I thought I blocked all of .ml?????