What's wrong with Brave browser?
I use it because it has a built in adblocker, and well it just works.
There is some crypto bullfuck and AI shit you can easily opt out off, and some talk about some CEO making homophobic comments.
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Comments84View original on lemmy.world
@[email protected] is the author of everything that follows:
This is a very well written an thorough article and I highly recommend reading it. If you don't want to however, here is a summary of the key points:
Brendan Eich's anti-LGBTQ+ political involvement
2016 — Brave Browser promises to replace webpage ads
2018 — Brave runs a questionable donation campaign
2020 — Brave injects referral links when visiting crypto wallets
2020 — Brave puts ads in user's home screens
2021 - Brave ships an insecure Tor feature
2023 - Brave hides their crawlers to websites
2024 - So-called "privacy browser" deprecated advanced fingerprinting protection
And More!
Edit: corrected a mistake noted below.
Thanks for the mention, but I just summarized the article.
Link to original article by Luca Bramè
Thanks. The original post where I saved your comment has now been deleted, so I only have that comment for reference.
Oh no kidding? Wonder why the post was deleted
You forgot
Later, that same piece of shit language will be used as an easy and quick way to develop applications running in neutered Chromium instances, that lead to your mouse driver software needing 500+MB of RAM all the time. At least it's portable, when the developers actually decide to export to Linux, and not just Windows and Mac (looking at you, Logitech!), and at worst have regular OS checks in the code just in case someone decides to take the code out of the Chromium instance.
Been pointing out Brave's scammy behavior for years
Bookmarking this nice writeup TY
In addition to what others have said, Peter Thiel's Founders Fund invested in Brave. You know, the Palantir guy who thinks Greta Thunberg is the antichrist? I'm not going within a country mile of anything his blood money touches when I can help it.
I stopped using Brave years ago but this should be the biggest motivator to get away from the browser. The thought of what Peter Thiel is probably getting from that deal is awful.
It's a crypto scam wrapped in a protection racket, built by an incompetent misogynist asshole on a base that supports Google's hegemony over web standards.
Ahh yes. Brave the bloated browser with very dodgy behaviour. You get a chrome fork with crypto shit, leaky VPN, ridiculously bad search, and a full blown ad engine that hijacks your notifications and tracks you in an 'anonymized' way. FUCK.THAT.SHIT.
Not to be antagonistic, but
So, basically, it's a chrome fork, and some people prefer chrome based browsers, so it's purely preference?
You know what's better than that?
The browser world that's not a chrome fork, and not full of crypto and AI SHIT, and without a bigoted CEO
Waterfox, Librewolf, Ironfox, Fennec, Ladybird, etc
Is ladybird even out? I saw something about it but I thought looking it up got me to something about it being set for some release this next year?
Still in very early alpha
Suggesting "very early alpha" software as a viable alternative is part of the problem.
Good news, all the rest aren't, they've been around for aeons
True!
The point is, that's a preference, not an innate 'better,' I generally use librewolf myself, but when the list of 'problems' with the browser is a set of optional things that you specifically have to turn on to experience, it's kind of like saying pizza is bad because you don't like pineapple, banana peppers, black olives, and chile flakes.
It's more akin to saying Hitler Pizza is bad because it was baked by Hitler, tbh
That's not how pizza quality works. You wouldn't eat a pizza with literal shit all over it and call it good because it was made by a saint.
Metaphor my dude. Metaphor
Not a good metaphor, though.
The main issues a lot of the FF purists on this site take with Brave is-
its a chrome fork, which is a hard stop for them, and thats a good enough reason alone to avoid a product given how anti-corporate and anti-google the residents of this site are.
the systems in the opt-in list are still part of the application. There is an anxiety that the developer may decide at a future time that those features are not opt-in/enabled by default after an update.
So the natural response is to advocate for browsers that simply do not have those features and are open-source so that users can verify rather than trust the dev team to not put features like that in the product. Or rigoursly vet every update installed on your system to prevent that stuff from being installrd in an update, which is not viable for most people... (Run apt update/upgrade and manually approve every package change, we will see you in a few days).
Thank you for at least giving a sensible response rather than irrational anger.
Still seems odd to say software is bad for having features one doesn't use rather than not having features one does want, but... *shrug*
Also the homophobic antivaxxer CEO, don't forget that
I feel like you know the reasons already then.
If having to install an adblocker is the biggest hurdle that means you are willing to put up with the rest of the BS, that’s your choice.
I’d rather take 40 seconds to install a adblocker on a different browser and not support shit CEOs or software that comes loaded with crypto AI shit, but that’s just me.
For me it boils down to it pretending to be different from Chrome while using the same rendering engine, thus keeping more power at Google.
As someone who lived through the time when IE was dominant and seeing the web stagnate until Mozilla released Firefox and began competing with new features and better speed, I never want to go back to a world with just one main rendering engine, we are sadly there again with Blink, but I am not going to support it.
I don't think we're there, thanks to ios.
the ceo is the creator of javascript, some alone would say thats a big enough sin, but the man has also donated money to anti lgbtq bills before, so more than just offhand comments.
Because crypto bro behaviour and I can install ublock in my firefox browser in both android and desktop.
What makes/does Brave better?
All those browser extensions you need to make Firefox private ends up fingerprinting you. Brave has all of that by default, so sites of sites can't easily differentiate you from other Brave users.
Also, Firefox still doesn't have tab groups on mobile. Chromium has had that feature for years and Firefox hasn't bothered to keep up at all. That's a non-starter for me
Not important to me. But understandable
I actively disable that on everything I use it with (even in the about:config flag)
Then switch to a Firefox fork that's built for security rather than a Slop Browser built on data mining you (that's all the built-in AI is) and that's supporting crypto shit and has a bigoted CEO
You're forgetting the major point that Firefox still doesn't have tab groups on mobile. That's a complete dealbreaker. If they can't be bothered to do that I would honestly be better off running Tor
Tried to see if there's a browser extension for that?
Also, this really feels like the one meme from community.
You're the blonde girl right now
Have you not been paying attention to Mozilla lately? They're barely any better on this.
And on the racism point, we're talking about an internet browser. If you're going that far you'd have to throw out the Call of Cthulu rpg because Lovecraft was a racist or stop driving cars because Henry Ford was a Nazi.
We're comparing 2 different browsers, and the one everyone is recommending here (Firefox) is filling itself with AI and ads just like the one you're all bashing. The only difference is one has a feature that I can't do without, and Mozilla has been completely dropping the ball for years at catching up.
Get your red herring bullshit out of here.
And FYI, don't bother responding. You're clearly not arguing in good faith and you're not worth wasting any more time on
Then just use a fork.
No, cause he's long dead, idiot. The homophobic asshole CEO is still alive
Why would you want tab groups on mobile? There is no real estate available to bother.
Also, on mobile, Firefox focus is the best general purpose browser when you are just looking up things. Adblock is built in, all cookies are dropped on close.
On Chromium, when you're in a tab group you get a narrow toolbar on the bottom to quickly swap between tabs or even close tabs. When looking something up, you can pick 2-3 pages in the results to open up in the group and flip between them quickly to compare and build consensus. Without that on Firefox, switching between tabs takes 3 taps and it's really annoying.
In addition, tab groups end up filling the same function as separate browser windows. They server as a way to scroll through tab topics in a very condensed manner, since I can have one tab group for Skyrim mods, another for gardening, one for 3D printing, etc. So then you scroll through topics instead of having to scroll past 20 tabs on one topic, 12 tabs on another, etc.
What I personally don't get is why Mozilla insisted on implemented them on desktop instead. Tab groups are just redundant in that application. Maybe someone else finds a use for them (and that's good), but it'd be better for them to fill out a missing niche first before adding more.
Also, I've noticed some people recommend Firefox's tab collections. Those are not the same thing. They're just glorified bookmarks.
Where do you get chromium? I looked at Fdroid but didnt see it.
I stick to what I said, on mobile I hardly ever use the browser except for the one thing I am looking at. So I don't group tabs, or even use tabs at all.
I can appreciate that your use case on a mobile browser is very different than mine. Sounds like Firefox did miss the mark for you.
Thanks for the reply.
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about
I think I do, but enlighten me. I don't even bother with tabs on mobile why would I bother with groups? There just isn't enough room to manage them.
Monkeys is just butthurt that they're wrong
Also, in addition to what others said, Brave has been involved in some shady stuff like ad substitution/injection. See:
https://thelibre.news/no-really-dont-use-brave/
Besides all the reasons everyone else has already provided in this thread, a browser containing as you so colourfully put it "crypto bullfuck and AI shit" isn't something I want to use.
FYI: I know this is not "built in" but on Firefox it is super easy to install an AdBlocker, like its about 6 seconds with a decent internet connection and precise mouse movements. Have to opt out of AI shit as well though.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-GB/firefox/addon/ublock-origin
Waterfox is a fork of Firefox that isn't playing with the AI shit.
Personally, IronFox on phones and LibreWolf on desktops.
In believe both are more hardened FF forks.
It's chromium, which means Google is probably tracking you though it, like they have been caught doing before.
They used to do affiliate link injections
Why use Brave when you can use Helium or Cromite?
Helium has full (not lite) ublock origin built in, and no junk. That’s the gold standard of Adblock.
Cromite has rather obsessive antifingerprinting, making it extremely difficult to track you compared to Brave.
Basically, people use Brave because it’s got SEO; it’s the first result when people type in “Adblock browser” unfortunately.
I used Cromite for a long time. Then one update the author added a 60 Hz refresh rate cap to help with avoiding fingerprinting with no way to turn it off. It now has an option, but for about a month it didn't; the author fought it. The janky scrolling was annoying enough to make me stop using Cromite (and I moved to Brave, ironically). I'd switch back but I'm lazy.
Yeah, Cromite is definitely a “second browser” to keep around for shopping and such, not my primary one. Its opinionated development is exactly why is so good in that niche, but it also breaks a few sites and features.
In that spirit… why only use only one browser? You can keep Brave installed.
Just use Firefox or Floorp with Ublock Origin. No crypto bullshit to be had.
I tried floorp a while ago, but it felt a bit too clumsy and unstable. Has it gotten any better?
I haven't had any problems with it. If you're on Linux, there's a fork of it called Firedragon. It's a bit more stripped down with additional patches for privacy and security.
It's chromium based, I'd rater a more open web, so I use FF
Orion on macOS and iOS also have built-in ad blockers, I don’t really understand your point. You could just as easily run a non-hostile browser that supports plug-ins cleanly.
Can someone recommend an alternative browser for android?
I hate the Firefox ui layout on Android, I like brave for that.
Can you elaborate more on what you don't like about Firefox? All phone browsers feel very similar to me so I'm not sure what specific about it you don't like. If the issue is muscle memory from using Brave, that will change once you use it for a few weeks.
The only browsers I would consider using on Android are Cromite, Firefox, IronFox, or DuckDuckGo. Tor if you're paranoid. All the rest are just messy and crammed full of AI slop.
The biggest thing for me is that it's two taps to open a new tab. There's a useless home button next to the url bar that doesn't do anything I want to do. I like how brave has the toolbar at the bottom.
I just took another look and saw you can turn on a tab bar at the top, which is kinda okish
Boy howdy do I have good news for you.
Firefox released a new bar design in October. It's currently enabled by default in Nightly, but if you can find the "Secret Settings" menu on Stable, you may want to give the "Composable Toolbar" option a spin :)
Wow, that's so much nicer!
Waterfox has worked for me so far. Does seem kind of similar to Firefox though.
It's meant to be the same. It's a fork of Firefox
True.
All firefox forks, like Fennec and IronFox will look just like firefox.
You fan consider Cromite. It is Chromium but with a lot of privacy features. Same UI as chrome.
Nothing. The crypto, AI and VPN is opt in not opt out. So just don't opt in. If they really bother you. You can use
brave://flags/or Group Policy to remove it.It's one of the better chromium based browser.
Try Vivaldi. Firefox should be the primary because without it chrome has no competition.
But Vivaldi is a very capable and feature rich browser without all the brave drama.
And vivaldi isnt open source. I like it too, but theres that advantage to firefox too
You could've taken this as an opportunity to list alternatives like you did in another comment, yet you chose to attack OP for asking someone to elaborate. Maybe they even considered switching, didn't know if "some talk about the ceo" was based on facts. Maybe their question even implied that they wanted to know why AI is a bad thing for a company to focus on or maybe they just don't know that you can install (a limited set of) extensions on Firefox Mobile (including ublock Origin).
We need to get more people using alternatives that aren't Chrome and we both are disagreeing with the statements by the CEO and Brave's direction with AI and Crypto. But let's be realistic here: calling someone a coward isn't gonna help that goal and it's not getting our arguments across. Let's be excellent to each other.
They already knew the facts, they even quoted them directly.
They did? I don't see it in the post, but maybe I'm too stupid to use Lemmy :/
Yo, relax - it’s just a browser.
I like brave browser and use it but I lost all my crypto from watching ads then they discontinued the program. I don't know why they did that because it was a great idea.
Nothing. People complain about its crypto and AI ties, but the TOU outline both clearly and they're easy to opt in or switch off as needed. That its native adblock works better than anything else I've ever used is enough for me. It's a good browser.
People are just jerks.
When using brave i would often get those captchas where you have to click on traffic lights on endless pages and more pages of pictures. I guess google tries to get those pennies back from you in this way when it detects braves adblocking. Now ive been on firefox+ublock and i dont get those infinite captchas nearly as often.
As they should. Don't forget the anti-lgbtq+ bullshit, or the fact that they have done many dodgy things in the past. No no, other than all they they are great!
If opting out is the solution, then just use Windows and Microsoft Edge. You can just "opt out" of the features you don't want.
But Maybe it's not about opting out, and giving the finger to bs behavior.
You're forgetting the adblock feature in Brave. Youtube still hasn't figured out a way around it, even though they've figured out how to attack ublock several times
nothing
that's why Nobara and Zorin, 2 well respected linux distros, now use it as their default browser
i wish firefox had kept up with everyone else technically but they didn't, that's why it almost disappeared. brave is the best chromium fork and the best browser generally imo
Never heard of either distro btw
Well, I sure don't support people not punching you in the face, but hey, at least I'm not the one throwing the punch.
Which Eich is doing by donating money to anti-LGBT causes.