Ok, honestly, is cast-iron really any better than a non-stick, stainless, copper (anything else?) pan?
To me, someone who celebrates a bit more of the spectrum than most: Metal hot. Make food hot.
Non-stick means easier cleanup, but my wife seems to think cast-iron is necessary for certain things (searing a prime rib roast, for example.).
After I figure those out, then I gotta figure out gas vs. electric vs. induction vs infrared....
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Non-stick chemicals have been historically poisonous, don't know about the modern stuff though.
Also, cooking with cast iron increases iron intake.
Cheap "modern" stuff? Still toxic. Though there are plenty of coatings that are less toxic and more robust. Not to say any, including a seasoned cast iron pan, are abuse-proof. Use metal utensils on anything, and you will damage any coating.
I use a metal spatula on my cast iron all the time.
There’s no [edit: manufactured, not easily replaced] coating on cast iron (unless enameled)
You seasoning is a coating
Yes there is, it is polymerized fats and oils that build up over time.
Technically the truth, but using a metal spatula will not have much impact.
Also It is technically plastic.
I've got a super thin metal spatula, with the perfect amount of flexibility, and I've been carrying it with me from place to place for decades. It is absolutely my favorite kitchen utensil. I know it didn't cost much, but I've never found another one as perfect for my needs, so it is priceless to me.
I use it on everything, even when it says no metal utensils. I'm just really careful with it. I love the thinness of it, and how it slips right under the edge of anything. Trying to catch the edge of an omelette with a thick plastic spatula is infuriating.
Unwise regardless of how it can be 'replaced' on cast iron.
Cast iron can take a fair amount of abuse.
The method some people use to clean super stuck on bits it literally a square of chain mail. I just use salt, I don't think the chain mail works that well.
Yeah, grandma's been sending me those ‘good luck’ chain mails since the nineties, and I've still not seen any luck at all.
Stiff handled brush cleans them right quick.
Yeah, PFAS or forever chemicals like Teflon are not all equal. The bigger "fluffier" molecules can pass through the body way easier than the smaller ones.
If people are in the US they should check their drinking water first since that's the majority of PFAS that stay in the body weirdly enough.
The pan coating itself is inert and isn't harmful. It is the precursor chemicals which bioaccumulate and cause issues.
Teflon itself is harmless, it's the by-products in its production (PFAS) that are dangerous. Here's more in the topic: https://youtu.be/SC2eSujzrUY
Non-stick is teflon. Not harmful unless you burn it (at over 300°C).
Not sure why you are down voted, you are right. Teflon molecules are really long chains, your body doesn't interact or store it, you just shit it out as it entered. The issue is the molecules used in it's production, that are dumped in rivers and end up everywhere.
Yea, and if you burn them they break down into shorter molecules that accumulate in the liver or something.
Would be surprised how many people used scratched Teflon pans. I watched one friend of mine put the empty non-stick pan with no oil or anything on maximum heat to "pre heat the pan" before adding oil. Very sketchy.
i have a nonstick with a ceramic coating. has lasted a lot longer than teflons
It lasts forever, you wont scrape whatever "non-stick coating" they use off. If you want a pan that will outlive your grandchildren and is permanently non-stick once it's seasoned, for most things a cast iron is perfect. If you have that, some pots of various sizes, and a wok, youre set.
I prefer induction or infrared stovetop. We dont need to burn more gas.
Imo, the main advantage to cast iron vs literally everything else is how you can abuse it as long as the one rule you follow is to clean it after use.
Teflon and other nonstick coatings are too easily damaged by things like scrubbing pads or metal utensils.
Cast iron don't give a single fuck.
Teflon will eventually flake off even if babied. The problem is thermal stress between the aluminum and Teflon. Repeated heating and cooling will eventually cause it to fail.
I picked up a cheap cast iron frying pan a couple of years ago, having finally gotten sick of paying £50 every couple of years for a decent non-stick pan.
That cast iron pan still looks basically new. I don't do anything particularly exciting with it, I just use it, then I wash it with whatever scouring sponge I have. Best £12 I've spent on something for my kitchen.
You can absolutely scrape the seasoning off a cast iron pan through aggressive use of metal utensils, but you can also re-season it by applying a little cooking oil and getting it hot for an hour or so.
You also don't have to worry about getting Teflon flu if you overheat the pan. The worst thing that can happen is that you ruin your pan, not that you poison yourself.
Induction gives you the speed and control of gas, without the exhaust gases. Induction is more efficient than infrared, because you're heating the pan directly. The cooktop only gets hot from the pan resting on it.
Get induction, it's by far the best!
i also want to add that you should avoid ones with capacitive buttons. they suck, and imagine cleaning them...
Also against the capacitive buttons my cat has accidentally turned on my stove so now I need to turn on the cleaning lock whenever I am done using it
same here, i just always make sure there's nothing metallic on the stove. it will just turn off after a while if my cats turn it on. don't understand why the controls can't be similar to the oven: knobs in the front panel that can be pushed in
Induction also requires specific pans, right? So a regular cast iron pot won't work?
If it's sticking to a magnet, it will work. Cast iron works. Induction is great, i'll never go back to gas!
Thanks! Sorry for spreading the FUD
I have induction; anything magnetic will heat, pans sized to your elements work best. Pans with too much aluminum and not enough iron (or other ferro magnetic material) won't work very well. Getting induction was a great excuse to dump the cheap pans I'd wanted to replace anyway. When shopping the discount racks like Home Goods, Marshalls, etc. I always grabbed some fridge magnets and tried them on the bottom of any prospective purchase; the stronger the pull, the better it will perform with induction. The only item I really missed was my moka pot (stovetop espresso, usually all aluminum casting), but I was able to find one with a stainless steel base that works great. Your pots and pans will also need a flat bottom to react to the induction elements, so woks and such built with a slope or curve to encourage flames to lick up the sides don't work so well compared to gas. Finding a Teflon coated pan that works with induction was difficult (I don't often use it anyway, but SO insisted we have one for their use). I'm looking into replacing the Teflon pans with nitrided carbon steel soon.
Cast Iron and induction are a match made in heaven though. The cast iron heats fast and evenly and the induction means you can be very precise about how much heat you apply and when. When you turn off the element, the only heat left in the whole system is what you've already put into the pan, which is a big deal in my tiny kitchen when I don't always have room to move a pan off to the side to rest or cool. The cast iron and stainless pans I have heat fast enough that I can basically cook starting from a cold pan for most things. Heating an empty pan takes seconds. I can bring a pot of a water of a couple quarts/liters to a roaring boil in about 4 minutes, then back down to a gentle simmer in seconds.
If gas is cooking with fire, induction feels like cooking with science. As may be clear from the rant, I love my induction range.
Small note on induction.
Since power setting works by turning the element off and on quickly, having a really thin pan with little thermal mass will result in some really weird uneven heating (basically just a hot circle).
Two ignorant questions for you:
Do you see any benefits to teflon over carbon steel?
I've been using airbnb a bit and sometimes the tops are some form of electric (but I'm ignorant enough not to know what type of electric) and by far the most brittle part seems to be the touch buttons that many have. Do you have any pointers on shopping around for stovetops without issues with the buttons?
Probably answered below:
I thought it was more involved than that but after a quick search online I'm wrong
You do still need a fair amount of mass on the bottom for it to be efficient. Anything ferrous will work, though.
Pure copper pans will not work for the same reason as aluminum.
A very slight clarification here:
cheap to make alumin ::: spoiler spoiler i ::: um nonstick pans. Mine doesn't work AND it wasn't cheap : (.
It's also just better for the environment
The reason cast iron is useful for searing a big cut of meat is that it has a reasonably high specific heat capacity (less than aluminum, more than copper, similar to steel) combined with considerably more mass than typical cookware made of other materials. It takes longer for the meat to cool the pan, so more heat transfers into the outer surface of the meat.
Cleanup of properly seasoned cast iron should be about as easy as non-stick pans because the seasoning (polymerized cooking oil) is, in fact a non-stick surface. Contrary to popular belief, it's fine to use soap on it, but aggressive abrasives can strip the seasoning. Fortunately, that's not hard to fix.
This. A cast iron pan just stores so much more heat than anything else. IDK the sciency chef-talk but if you like meat to look crusty and golden on the outside but tender on the inside then this is the way.
I basically just completely disregard any bullshit "seasoning" advice, and I've never had any rust or whatever. I don't scrub it with steel wool or whatever but I don't scrub anything with that. Sometimes I put a few cm of water in it and let that boil off any crusted on whatever.
Yes. Our house only has cast iron and stainless.
There's a small learning curve with cast iron, but the less you worry and over think it, the easier it gets. I fry eggs every other day in mine, and it's about as non-stick as anything else. Preheat the pan or griddle, that's all. Cleanup is a wipe with a paper towel or a rinse and quick scrub.
Cast iron works 95% of the time, but acid can strip the seasoning. So anything simmered an hour or more in tomato or win,e or sauted with lemon juice, get stainless. Don't put it in the dish washer. Not a lot of rules, really. My pan is 15 years old. My Mom uses ones that might be older than her.
When I travel and have to use someone else's non-stick pans, I hate the delicate little snowflake pieces of shit. Flimsy, toxic, someone else showed it a fork once so now it has damage and sticks anyway in a line across the middle, can't go on the oven, can't sear, handles all wobbly. Generally just disposable trash. Why would you love trash?
I have a non-stick, and I use it rather infrequently. I have read about the effects of damaged coating, and GOD I would throw it away immediately as soon as I see ONE flake in it. Maybe I'm just overreacting it, but I treat it like it was a delicately covered layer of asbestos.
It's great and smooth NOW, but I'm only using it until I see a noticeably hard scratch. Until then, I get rid of the oil and juices with a paper towel immediately after cooking (and I'm already slightly worried that the dry paper could be too abrasive on the dry bits of the pan), and I leave it to cool down before I wash it to prevent it from heat stress.
I might be overthinking it. But I'm playing with the thought of getting a cast iron or carbon steel already.
Please consider how many decades it took for lead in the atmosphere from leaded gasoline to be considered bad enough that we got rid of it. PFAS and other toxic chemicals that are ubiquitous are known to be toxic in lab conditions, so just imagine how bad that shit is in the wild.
I agree don't waste money, but might as well get the cast iron now, keep it in training mode for 2-3 months, and just wait for the cast iron to get bumped up to the big show.
Totally agreed, that's the p(l)an.
Everyone else in the comments are saying Teflon is harmless to consume. Who do I believe?
Scientists are your best bet, I guess. I wish I could cite you studies, but I would have to search, as well. I might soon.
UPDATE: This far all I got was 'best to be careful' or 'staying away never hurts':
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0304389425031759
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28913736/
Thanks. So it sounds like it probably has the same effect as other microplastics? Chemically inert, but can physically cause damage.
I believe the harms that are well known are the environmental impacts and that on people involved in its production. Weighing all of that together, I'll maintain my policy that I'd never buy a non-stick, but if I happen to have one, I'm not going to toss it and create more waste than is necessary. I mainly keep mine around because other people (e.g. parents) like to use them sometimes when they visit.
We could choose to believe that same folks who previously told us that cocaine, asbestos, lead, and tobacco smoke were
healthy/perfectly safe/ not really harmful.So throw all caution out the window in the absence of evidence? What kind of logic is that?
Haha. I didn't say we should. I'm just pointing out that it's an option, again.
Nonstick pans are amaaaaazing the first few months. After that, they get non-non-stick in places.
because you're buying cheap non stick stuff.
I got started when I inherited my grandmothers Le Creuset dutch oven. She purchased it in the 1950s and it's still going strong...
Then I found they had an outlet store near me...
Non-Stick, no matter what brand, will need to be replaced every 3-5 years. So, yes, enameled cast iron is more expensive, but when you compare 1 set of cast iron to 15 to 25 sets of non-stick... yeah...
Cast iron also retains heat better than non-stick, carbon or stainless steel, aluminum or copper.
But it is HEAVY AS SHIT. You aren't hand flipping pancakes in cast iron.
yeah dawg I'll be real here, that's a skill issue. do some weights, and wrist exercises, and then you too can hand flip pancakes in a pan like this:
(imperial measuring tape for scale)I've used cast iron for about 15 years now, and flipping pancakes in this thing is downright easy these days. (yes I know my kitchen is a bit dirty, I literally just made dinner, and am posting on Lemmy as I eat)
I cheat and use an æbleskiver pan. 😜 No flipping required, you just rotate them with a skewer.
https://youtube.com/shorts/pCQCW5NS2jg
Danger is in eating too many without realizing it. LOL.
hahahahahaha that is true! I've got canadian maple syrup, duty free from some family in CA, and booooooy do those flapjacks taste GOOD with butter and syrup.
æbleskiver look astoundingly similar to another dish - takoyaki; as well!
~~......dangit now i've got a hankering for takoyaki, and the only good place is an hour away, and also closed for the night. ~~
Pull a Tampopo and break in to cook them yourself (and clean up so no one knows). >:3
100% agreed on skill issue. I have one of those same Lodge pans, and it goes airborne as I like.
Yeah, that's what I did for a wok. They make cast iron woks, but the weight defeats the entire purpose.
Stainless steel can be plenty nonstick but you have to get it good and hot. Seasoned cast iron is a little more forgiving, but heavy. Carbon steel may be the best of both world because it's similar in weight to stainless, but takes a season, but I don't have enough experience with it yet to say for sure.
I use my cast iron for non stick operations and my stainless for fond sauces and acidic dishes.
Next time with stainless try this: bring a little oil to smoke point, wipe the pan dry, back on the heat. Then add cold oil and your food. It's pretty nonstick, but it only lasts for one use.
I bet this works nominally better, but I just heat the pan with oil. I can't be arsed to wipe screaming hot oil out of a pan only to reintroduce new cold oil and have to contemplate whether it could possibly make a difference and either feeling like an idiot for blindly following such an absurd direction, or like an idiot for not understanding the scientific grounds for which it works.
Under certain conditions, thin layers of oil polymerize and bond to a surface. It's the same mechanism as cast iron, but smooth stainless steel holds onto the coating more tenuously than cast iron.
This is a HUGE "Yes, but."
Entering adulthood, I got cheap run of the mill non stick pans, they work until they dont.
Then we tried cast iron. Gotta oil it, cure it, and don't use soap to wash it. Some extra work, but it worked great.
Now, I'm rocking stainless steel. Less work than the cast iron, but you need to preheat the pan before you put anything in it. If you do this, it's just as nonstick as the others, and it's a lot lighter and easier than the iron, and I think they are less expensive than cast iron, but I haven't compared in a very long time.
FYI, you can wash cast iron with soap.
Not using soap is a hold over from when soaps were more caustic (e.g. lye soap).
Only if you re-season it afterwards. Otherwise it starts to rust because the seasoning is what protects it from oxidation
Really not. See the lye comments.
I generally wash with dish soap and a chainmail scrubber, then dry with a paper towel. If I remember I might spread a tiny amount of oil.
Yeah I could do better but the point is I’ve done almost nothing to care for them in years.
Pure iron oxidizes without the high carbon content to make it stainless and will absolutely rust if you don't at least oil it after washing with soap, but seasoning it properly definitely makes a difference in how it cooks.
I own 4 different size/shape cast iron and I speak from experience. Any decent dish soap will still strip the oils that are acting as a barrier to the open air and oxidation, doesn't have to be lye-based
Cast iron is extremely forgiving of improper treatment. And even if it eventually rusts, you can fix it. I’ve been using cast iron as my primary skillets since pandemic. I know I don’t treat them like I should, but they’re not yet rusted, still have an easy to clean surface that food doesn’t stick to. I’ll probably have to reseason eventually but if that’s not until I’d normally have to replace non-stick, I’m way ahead without putting in any extra work
Edit: sure, standard three cast iron skillets, and cast iron Dutch oven. I also have a set of stainless pans, and some induction ready non-stick for company
Stainless steel is made with chromium, not carbon.
Carbon steel makes good knives, but will definitely rust.
It only oxidizes when water can reach the iron. If you have a good seasoning on it, mild dish soap can't lift it off, and water can't reach the iron.
Making sure it's completely dry (I dry mine with heat on the stove) and adding a thin layer of oil is a good idea too. There are often parts of the pan that aren't well seasoned. On mine, it's the part that touches the stove that's most likely to rust.
If your seasoning rinses off with mild soap and water, you might want to try some different seasoning methods. That might mean using a different oil, different temperature, longer heat time for the seasoning, etc. Or you might want to season it with thinner layers of oil multiple times in a row.
Thanks for the tip. I saw many people saying both sides, so I figured I'd just avoid soap and not find out for myself.
If you wash your cast iron with eg Dawn dish soap, you can definitely clean it down to bare metal and it will rust. I usually will clean the cast iron pan last and use the sponge that just has a small amount of soap left in it. Just watch it as you clean, if the shiny hard coating seems to be going away, rinse out the soap and make something greasy next time you use the pan to replenish it.
If you have a good seasoning, it won't wash off. "Seasoning" is the process of polymerizing oil. That hardens the oil and binds it to the surface. You're more likely to burn the seasoning off or to scratch the seasoning and have it flake off than take it off with dish soap.
Whether you use soap or not, dry it on the stove and give it a light coat of oil after you clean it.
Thank you for helping to dispel this myth. It is truly disgusting the state that some people leave their cast iron pans in, the fact that people eat the food from them after not having washed it for years is terrifying.
The pans regularly get above boiling temperatures. They're sterile
Sterile and clean aren't the same thing.
Then wipe it with a paper towel when it's cool like a normal person
Yea that's the part that keeps me from cast iron.
Not being able to wash it normally just sounds weird and nasty to me.
And two the whole having to season your pan... God damn I've got a million things to worry about and barely time to make food, I don't have time to be giving a hot oil massage to my pans....
I like carbon steel, mainly for two reasons
High carbon steel. The real champion. Agree
Hell yeah. Carbon steel pans are great. Gonna get a carbon steel wok soon and then home deep frying is gonna be a breeze.
Metal hot. Makes food hot. Yes.
But!!
Cold food makes hot pan cold.
Cast iron has a lot of thermal mass, so when you put a cold piece of meat on it it doesn't immediately get cold and stop cooking for a bit. Thin pans without it don't keep hot, hot so they don't sear long enough and you don't get the maillard reaction and the tasty brown crust.
This is exactly what I was going to say. More hot stuff means the temperature spikes get flattened.
Very useful for electric ranges.
Depends on what you're doing. Yes, it's better for most things where you'll need to sear.
Carbon steel frying pans good as well.
Alternative to cast iron: carbon steel.
Same seasoning process, better heat conduction, lighter, cheaper.
For me, cast iron are by far my most used pans. You know how flannel starts out sort of awful but gets better and better as it gets older? That's cast iron. Starts out sticky PITA but over time becomes satisfying satiny nonstick surface. I've always used them a lot so that's how my cooking style evolved.
We also have one steel pan we call the Stick pan, sometimes you want food to stick so you can deglaze. My kids use it for potsticker dumplings, and they like it also because it's lighter, cast iron is heavy. And of course a rice and pasta pot, those are steel.
I don't buy "nonstick" pans, they don't last and I'm not convinced they are safe.
Think a bit deeper. How quickly is that heat transferred, and at what peak temperatures? Does the metal keep any heat of its own and impart that into the food, or does it just convey the heat from the burner to the food? And how quickly does it do that?
Look at the thermal mechanics of this.
Take the cast iron pot. You can throw that on the stove and let it get ripping hot, like the metal itself is carrying a ton of heat energy. When you put the prime rib in it, the metal dumps its heat into the meat much faster than a flame alone would. This helps you get a strong sear on the outside, without dumping in too much total quantity of heat to cook the meat on the inside more than you want.
Heat can be transferred 3 ways- conduction (flows between two touching objects), convection (hot object heats air, air blows against cold object, air heats cold object) and radiation (hot object radiates energy through space and it warms cold object).
Electric- coils get hot, the pan touching the coils transfers heat by conduction. Downside is uneven heating- neither the pan nor the coils is perfectly flat so you get hot spots.
Infrared- coils under the glass get hot and radiate heat through the glass. This works pretty well.
Induction- coils under the glass but they don't get hot. Instead they create a magnetic field modulated at low radio frequencies (15-150 KHz). This fluctuating magnetic field interacts with any ferrous metal close to it, creating small but powerful eddy currents inside the metal and thus heating the metal up. So the stove doesn't create any heat at all, it's the pan that actually gets hot. This by the way is neither conduction convection nor radiation, because heat isn't being transferred, it's created inside the pot.
Gas- flammable gas (usually propane or natural gas, which is mostly methane) burns creating high temperature exhaust gases that rise against the pot and thus heat the pot. Many chefs like this. Gas stoves should ideally be used with an overhead hood as gas stoves have been proven to drastically reduce indoor air quality.
Of the options- induction is usually the best these days, because it's the most efficient, cleanest, and also in many cases has the highest output (in terms of watts of heat pumped into the pot).
When cooking, you want a stove capable of very high output. The more output you have, the faster it will boil water for example.
/thread
All technically true & correct.
I'll add that cast iron consistently works better for longer: My ceramic or PTFE pots start great, but after a while become so terrible they're useless in spite of silicone spatulas etc. I cook almost daily, so I found the new tech pans fully degraded within a year or less.
Cast iron, I've car camped and daily stove topped, no problem. I season it once every couple of years, works great.
This is true.
My partner and I are currently having a laugh because a couple years back I bought a fancy expensive set of ceramic coated pans. Best ones on offer in the store at the time. Coating applied with plasma vapor at 40,000°F or some such nonsense, hard as diamond, good for use with metal utensils, coating guaranteed for life, yada yada. Good brand too (Calphalon). I said the tech on these is amazing and the coating has insane hardness and it will last forever. Partner laughed and said I fell for marketing BS, all non stick pans degrade.
Guess what happened? The nonstick ceramic coating started rubbing off in some places. I'm quite annoyed. Partner laughs at me.
Meanwhile go on YouTube and there's videos of people restoring cast iron skillets from the 1800s to like-new condition.
😬 damn, sorry homie. I guess if it's lifetime warranted, resell the replacements?
Not particularly relevant, but it'll help you see through marketing dreck no matter how it evolves: Plasma arcs can go that high in temp, but has no effect on what makes something "hard" or "soft": interatomic bond strength. I'm certain you know this, but carbon (as in the diamond) holds hands really strongly with other carbon, more strongly than iron to iron as in a steel spatula.
In theory, an actual diamond surface (not sprayed on, but grown) would be impervious to steel implements. But in reality, making a fully uniform diamond coating is extremely difficult, and thus tear-jerkingly expensive.
Spraying chunks of diamond onto a surface as the mfgr has done really means there's a thin sticky coating on the pan before they start, so that these hot pieces of diamond partly melt into it and are "glued". Safe bet that later is PTFE. That means when your pan is hot on the stove, the layer softens and you wind up eating little bits of diamond with each meal. One day, food sticks, as you'll have found a spot missing too many diamonds, it's just the substrate with a bunch of tiny holes to make food stick even worse than a smooth plastic surface.
Pretty good post, I learnt something - thanks 🙏
Glad to help :)
Teflon and certain ceramic non-stick pans can't handle the heat needed to sear a steak. You can look up the heat range of your pans, but generally if it isn't cast iron or steel, it's going to warp or degrade the coating. That means they won't last as long.
On the other hand I've never had to toss a cast iron pan. Sometimes I've needed to scrape off seasoning and redo it, and it's rare to ruin a cast iron pan to the point it can't be redeemed. But I've just bought my first carbon steel wok because it's much lighter than cast iron
Non-stick has to be cleaned by hand, whereas stainless steel can go in the dishwasher, so for me that's easier to cleanup.
Non-stick has Teflon on top, which shouldn't be heated above a certain temperature, and to sear steak you need to leave the pan in the stove for long without anything on it so it gets extremely hot (which would damage the Teflon coating of non-stick and release poisonous gases on your kitchen, not enough to kill you, but still can't be healthy).
So, in short, stainless steel is a good middle ground, easier to clean and maintain than non-stick and cast iron.
As for gas/electric/induction it's about efficiency, induction heats the bottom of the pan, electric heats the glass where the pan is resting, and gas heats everything. There's a video from a YouTuber that measures time for a pot of water to get to 100° in all 3 (I don't remember who, I thought it was technology connections but can't find it), and in short induction is the fastest, electric takes a while longer, and gas melted his thermometer before the water boiled (which shows you just how much heat you're putting in a place that's not the pan).
That being said there's certain stuff that is easier to do on gas stoves, possible on electric and impossible on induction. Namely anything that requires the pan to be heated at an angle. It's very niche, I would say most people wouldn't even notice or care about this limitation, but professional chefs sometimes prefer gas because it allows to be used like this.
I don't know if it is a limitation on some (cheaper?) non-stick pans but all I've ever dealth with were dishwasher safe. It's metal untensils that fuck them up
Dishwasher is supposed to be more abrasive than metal tools because it's blasting pressurized water with coarse elements onto the stuff you put inside, same reason you don't put good knives in the dishwasher.
It's not going to break the first time, but I seriously doubt any non-stick coating can survive a dishwasher for a year.
I have three of just such pans. Dunno if our dishwasher is just delicate. They all say they are diswasher safe. But I think it does shorten their lifespan, but I haven't noticed much of a difference. Like said, maybe my machine is just delicate
I'm thinking about a wok. That surely couldn't work with induction. Or does it?
It does, I have an induction wok that I used in my previous apartment that had an induction stove. That being said it does have a flatter base than a "real" wok, but most woks you will use on your kitchen also have flat bottoms anyways. But yeah, you can't use it the same way, so if you mainly cook with woks it might be an issue, for me it wasn't.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CzJKxUCKOBg
Cast iron is fairly cheap and reliably buy it for life. Non stick pans are so delicate that you can't even use metal tools with them and their handles are usually plastic so melt if you put them in the oven, and even then they won't last more than a few years.
All of my pans are cast iron. For saucepans I have stainless steel. Never really had a problem with cleanup, what are you doing?
I have Lodge cast-iron skillets, Le Creuset and Staub ceramic-coated cast-iron dutch ovens, Le Creuset stainless saucepans, and one non-stick frying pan (which I bought for my wife).
I use the skillets for pretty much everything that isn't going to be simmered in tomato. Had them for years and they are non-stick. I happily fry eggs in them with no worries whatsoever.
Cast iron is vastly superior to non stick. You can get it hotter, it stays hot when you put food in it, you can use metal utensils, no horrible chemicals like pfas.
they also last significantly longer. I'm using pans I got from my grandma. She got them from her mom. and If i had kids, they'd probably get them after I was done with them.
My favorite pan is from the 70s and I got it out of tge trash.
Glad you rescued it and gave it a better home!
Cast iron is pretty good at almost everything, but isn't the best at anything.
For searing meat at high temps, I've settled on stainless steel. It's easy to clean and maintain, and the typical 3-ply or 5-ply cladding has much better heat transfer characteristics than cast iron (which is a mediocre heat conductor masked by the fact that it's so heavy and thick that it takes on a lot of thermal mass to aid in searing). You don't have to worry about metal utensils or harsh scrubbers scratching the surface. And you don't have to worry about acidic ingredients messing with the surface, either.
For things that need nonstick characteristics, like eggs, I cycle through nonstick on a short replacement cycle (once every 2 or 3 years). I might get a carbon steel one day but I'm not in a hurry.
The 5 ply stuff is really good. The ones I have are just as heavy as the cast iron but they can go in the dishwasher so that makes them my favorite. They cost way more than cast iron though
Eggs tend to cook rather well on cast iron so long as you use butter/tallow/fat/etc. and aren't scrambling them.
Unfortunately I scramble my eggs nowadays so I don't have much reason to use my cast iron pan anymore :(
I scramble eggs in my cast iron all the time. No issues. What issues are you having with that?
Yeah, I don't have any real trouble with scrambling on a cast iron. Even if it does stick a bit, it's scrambled so it'll all come together in the end anyway.
Reddit has a fucking hard-on for cast iron. I'm not really a fan.
I don't use teflon non-stick but have had good results with ceramic-based non-stick. My second choice would be carbon steel, which has a similar "seasoning" process as cast iron, but I find carbon steel easier to work with compared to cast iron.
Their issue might be that carbon steel can be expensive. Meanwhile you have some great cast iron for reasonable prices and are much more likely to find “heirloom” pieces
While I’ve been tempted to try carbon steel, I invested in cast iron and am very happy with that. No reason to spend more money.
I’ve never tried ceramic non-stick because
So I’m at
Next
Thin hot pan get cold fast when big meat on it.
Thick hot pan get cold slower when big meat on it.
Thick pan good for make big meat hot fast.
Thin pan good for make thin meat hot or thick meat hot slow.
I bought an carbon steel pan about 5 years ago, best pan ever! Highly recommend 😊
Everything has it's pros and cons. There is no 'better'. A stocked kitchen will have variety of different cookware types, a professional kitchen will have more than one heat type as well. most people for whatever reason, only use one cookware type and convince themselves it's the 'best', but that isn't true at all. i've taken professional cooking classes and they use every type of cookware and tell you to but certain types for certain styles/dishes.
choose your heat source first, then your cookware. non-ferrous cookware won't work on induction stoves.
personally i have non stick, stainless steel, cast iron, and ceramic. i don't bother with carbon steel because i don't do high heat cooking that works best with it. i have a couple of basic alloy stock pots too, because they are lighter.
Your wife sounds smart, listen to heerrrrrr.
Also I don't know, but since hearing about non-stick pans leaking cancer into your food (if you scrape them with a fork, etc), I just like to use a normal pan.
Just about everything is better than non-stick pans. Like others pointed out the non-stick chemicals will eventually flake off into your food so you're eating that stuff. And non-stick pans sort of have an expiration date, they will eventually lose all their non-stick abilities at which point you'll wonder what's the point of using it anymore.
Beyond that the other stuff is maybe more personal preference. Stainless steel is great keeping in mind you'll always have to oil it and always have to clean it well. On the other hand cast-iron is essentially always oiled and ready to go so you typically don't worry about that part of the cooking.
re: your other question I was forced to use something electric at my current home and ended up getting an induction stove after a lifetime of using gas stoves. I love the induction stove so much I'm not sure I'd want to go back to something else. It heats up so fast that I had to re-learn some of my cooking since the pan always reaches the desired temperature in a few seconds. Induction stoves are also safer, there are no open flames and no gas fumes hanging around.
The flakes don't actually do anything, due to what gives non-stick the good quality it doesn't interact with your body. That's not dangerous to you. If you heat it really hot, especially without anything on it, then you'll cause issues and can have a health hazard.
Of course if it is flaking then you might want to replace it since you probbaly don't want to eat the flakes anyway.
I've been enjoying my carbon steel more than cast iron. It's the same as cast iron for seasoning and non stick, but much lighter.
Cast iron sears better for sure.
I use decent stainless steel for everything else. Non-stick scares me.
Cast iron is nice because it's lower conduction rate means you can get a lot more radiant heat without burning whatever's on it. (Also I guess the "seasoning" adds flavor but eh.)
All day every day I vastly prefer cooking with stainless. It's infinitely tougher than any coating can be, sheds no flavor to the food when cooking with acids, you can scrub the shit out of it, and it doesn't warp like aluminum.
Seasoning should not add flavor. That's a dirty pan.
I don't want last night's fish in this morning's pancakes.
Get a thick bottom stainless steel pan and don’t be afraid to use butter, it’ll take care of all your needs and doesn’t require special or gentle treatment.
Cast iron gets jerked off over a lot but it has its merits. All of the 'no soap' talk is from the old days of lye based soaps and detergents. It still has the advantages of heat retention, durability, and low cost. Keep it dry and oiled when not in use and it'll still outlive your grandkids.
Stainless steel is nigh invulnerable to just about everything, doesn’t require seasoning, and can be put away soaking wet without a concern. I’m not knocking cast iron, but cast iron is more of a hobby than it is practical everyday cookware. It’s the cooking equivalent of preferring vinyl records over other music formats that are literally just as good if not better.
For sure. Most of my cookware is stainless. I have a mix of that, cast iron, and high carbon steel.The right tool for the right job.
I would rather cook my steak on a cast iron over stainless steel any day.
Ok.
I've tried to love cast iron and just couldn't. Stainless is the way to go for my money. Just make sure it's hot before you add oil/butter to it, that's the key to not making things stick. If you do it right you don't need much at all either. And you can scrub the shit out of it with steel wool too.
We were told that the teflon coating is "inert", implying it's harmless. But, now we have microplastics in every cell in our body, of which, teflon is one. I'm not sure that chemically inert equals harmless.
Cast iron is great once you learn to cook with it. Food does stick sometimes, even in a "seasoned" pan. But, it's not a big deal. Also, you can clean and polish it with power tools, if you need to. It's virtually indestructible.
Induction stoves? You WILL break the glass, and the glass is expensive to replace. If I got electric, I'd go with an old-school coiled heating element type, literally buy an old, used stove, because new appliances are crap construction quality. You can get them refurbished, and they're easy to fix if anything goes wrong--very simple machines.
If you choose gas, you NEED good ventilation, a hood that vents to the outside. At least, you need to open a window while you're burning the gas.
The best argument against Teflon has absolutely nothing to do with cooking with it and everything to do with how it’s manufactured. The chemicals used for manufacturing are incredibly bad for every part of the environment, have been proven over and over to cause cancer and are impossible to contain. Of course there are good arguments against using it for pans as well, but nobody ever listens to those, I’ve tried.
Asbestos is chemically inert.
Anyone who uses that as a claim of safety is not only brainless trash, but stupid too.
Here in Germany everyone is using radiant heat or induction cooktops. I’ve never broke the glass or seen that anywhere. Don’t know what you’re doing with it.
I wonder if cast iron pans are the culprit becuse they're heavy as fuck. But I haven't heard of people breaking the glass either
You sure have to be a little more delicate with a heavy cast iron on glass than if you had a gas stovetop. But that comes pretty automatic if you understand that different materials have different strengths and you don’t have think too much about it.
I wouldn’t necessarily trust them to live long in a high traffic restaurant kitchen.
Cast iron is great if you use it a lot. It does take a little more work to maintain because after you clean it it's best if you dry it and coat it with a thin layer of oil, but you don't have to if you use it all the time. Mine is non stick enough to fry an egg with no oil, so it's better than my old ass Teflon pans in that sense, but probably not as good as a new Teflon pan
I use cast iron on electric and am 100% happy with both. I have a mix of pans that I bought new and acquired used. One of them was quite rough and I restored it. I find them extremely easy to use and cleanup.
I don't like non-stick anymore because the coating eventually gets all scratched up and doesn't work as good. Idk how it gets scratched up, I never used metal. My ex did, so maybe it was her.
Cast Iron, if maintained well (i.e just don't cook anything too acidic. You don't usually need to re-season), lasts forever. It's also great for when you want to sear something without the pan cooling down once you put your food on it. Because it's thick and stores a bunch of heat. Yet somehow it also gets hot pretty fast.
I don't get stainless steel personally. Apparently to get things to not stick, I should be using MORE heat? But I already use a lot of heat! On the up side, they get hot really fast.
Copper and carbon steel I've never used. I hear carbon steel is similar to cast iron in many ways, but easier to maintain?
If you're doing a new build, definitely go induction. Electric sucks because it's kinda slow-ish to get started, gas sucks because either you need to have a gas line built to your house if you don't already have one, or you change out the gas container every now and then (and that thing is heavy, mine's 17 KG of gas + whatever the huge chunk of metal weighs, which is definitely more than 17 KG). Plus the whole issue of, y'know, freshly burnt hydrocarbons (yay CO2 and potentially other gases). Oh and gas explosions aren't common, but they can happen!
Only downside of induction is that if you lose power, you can't cook. A wood-burning stove as a backup is excellent in this case, because depending on what your heating system is, you may also lose heating if power is gone.
A propane BBQ works as a backup cooking option.
It's not particularly good to use indoors and very impractical to use for multiple meals when it's like -30 outside. Also I'mma gatekeep now and say that BBQ should be wood or charcoal, not propane. More smoky flavor.
That said, obviously one should own a BBQ of SOME sort if they own a house. I think it's legally mandated in my country that any home with even a tiny bit of land around it, needs to have something that can be used to produce burnt shashlik and sausages.
Seconding your thoughts on nonstick and cast iron. I haven't used other kinds of pans, but I like cast iron enough that I'd consider having at least one of them to be essential.
Getting a good sear is pretty helpful towards avoiding something sticking.
May be a little expensive but they sell batteries to run a home, usually in connection with solar but doesn’t have to be. You should be able to handle a power outage for a day or two (and after that is when it’s great have solar to recharge them).
For a house in town it’s likely expensive but you also are less likely to have long outages. For a rural house it may be cheaper than the alternative of propane
Tbf I've never had to go more than a couple of hours without power. Which is good because a couple of days of power with heating could be couple hundred kilowatt hours once I actually replace my wood furnace with a heat pump. Right now I just have one air to air heat pump to help out, but eventually air to water is needed. Can't do ground source unfortunately.
Solar doesn't really do anything here in the winter when the batteries would likely be drained. We get like 6 hours of daylight and you it's almost always overcast all day. It's great in the summer though, assuming said batteries can be drained to sell to the grid when power is expensive and recharged when the prices are too low to sell to the grid.
non stick is fine if it's seasoned or anodized.
i have anodized non stick and it's worked for over a decade. it's not cheap though, easily $80 a pot/pan.
Induction FTW and cast iron does work the best with induction since it heats up the most. However, I also enjoy non-stick since it being slower is an OK trade-off for the easy cleanup
The cast-iron I've been using for the past 16 years was probably made in the 1940's in Ontario and will likely still be around after I die, unless someone leaves it in the rain or something. With coated pans I'd have to buy new ones every four years or so (which is not only costly but environmentally unfriendly)... not to mention the health risks of using non-stick, which are negligible IF you never forget it on a hot burner; it will overheat and the coating will break down and leach into your food.
Gas ranges also release toxins into the air which can only be properly extracted if you cook under a fume hood, like one you might find in a chemistry lab... even the best kitchen exhaust fans can't exchange the air that well and you're left breathing in carcinogens everyday when you cook your meals. So, if one uses a coated pan on a gas stove... well.
IMO the best choices are anything except coated pans on an induction stove. I read somewhere induction stoves are more efficient but I've never actually looked into it. Cast irons can certainly be a pain in the ass to maintain, but once you get a good coating on there it's smooth cooking until something acidic is cooked with it, or a roommate puts it in the dishwasher for you... which is why it's good to also have a steel pan also. I've never eve heard of copper pans lol, sounds expensive.
Yup. Totally ruined. Lucky for you I have a special cast iron disposal company. Just bring me your rusty cast iron and I'll dispose of it. The best part? 100% free.
I have no idea when these pans of mine were made, but boy howdy will I be giving them to my children, and my children's children (and their children after that). I like to hope that every time they cook with them, they'll think of me, even after I'm long gone.
https://www.castironcollector.com/index.php
Try digging through this site if you want. It's how I found out when (appr.) and where mine was made. It was pretty cool learning the history of my ~80 year old pan.
Copper pans are fucking GORGEOUS though...
If your kitchen means your pans go in a cupboard, don't spend the money on copper pans.
Different tools for different jobs. There's a ton more variables at play. Oversimplifying does just that.
Play with it all. Try to do both. Then you will have a better idea. Or post on lemmy asking everybody and read a lot of incomplete and possibly misleading explanations that might help you find the detail(s) you lack to edge your mind into a wider hunger for deeper understanding.
Mine? Cast iron is just different. Like using a truck vs using a car.
In real life, nothing is clear. So, when people give you clear explanations, they may be making the decision to not invest a lot of energy trying to get you to understand or know more. Like right now, I know that spectrum people take a lot of explaining sometimes, and I am really tired and going to bed, so my best advice is to understand they're different. Learn by doing if you can, and learn from others if you can. But, if it means anything, I use two cast iron skillets, three types of stainless steel pans, some of them tri-ply, and an aluminum with a nonstick coating. I have my preferences not just for different things, but styles of certain things, and even times for different things (like just cooking for me, or one other person, or multiple other people).
Also, generally with non-stick, using high heat or metal utensils on it will ruin it and expose you to pretty bad chemicals basically immediately. But also so does any smoke in general.
Literally pick your poison.
Some answers here are close.
It depends on what type of person you are.
If you're the kind of person who has a neat, clean kitchen who does all their dishes after every meal, go cast iron.
If you're the kind of person who has a messy kitchen and you really only do dishes once or twice a week, go primarily with stainless, a nonstick pan for eggs, and a 10-12 inch cast iron pan for occasional use, like that rib roast.
Absolutely love that I can toss them right into the oven, and maintenance is not that bad
Searing and oven safe.
My family uses our cast iron skillets daily. We have one that is almost exclusively for eggs, and one for meat.
Cast iron wants to be used often and if you really like cooking, will eventually become your go-to. But not everyone gets there; for a lot of people it is counterintuitive to have a pan that you only scrub any bits off and rinse with plain water. Actually, our egg pan only gets wiped out with paper towels because its so slippery now. I don't think I've scrubbed it in months.
If you really want to use your pans:
We use the absolute hell out of our cast iron and our stainless steel. They all get scrubbed with a metal Chore-Boy scrubbee. Only the stainless gets soap.
I mean honestly you should be using soap and water on it and not just wiping it out. It doesn't hurt anything to you soap and water. I use cast iron daily I've got six odd pans or something like that that I use and not ever had one issue with utilizing the soap and water on it.
Doesn't the soap weaken the seasoning, causing it to flak off faster?
No when everything used to be lye based and acidic, sure. Soap has changed, and we know better now. If you have seasoning flakes off, it's not seasoning.
Good to know, thanks
Why? There's nothing on my pans except seasoning when I use them. I scrub any food bits off after each use. Why would I need soap? What would I want the soap to do?
"seasoning"
Haha...OK
A seasoned cast iron pan refers to how experienced the pan is. The seasoning isn't additional flavoring, it's the result of years of real use.
When cleaning a cast iron pan you want to scrub off any "seasoning" (definition 1) without removing any "seasoning" (definition 3).
sea·soned
/ˈsēz(ə)nd/
adjective
(of food) having had salt, pepper, herbs, or spices added.
"seasoned flour"
(of wood) made suitable for use as timber by adjusting its moisture content.
"it was made from seasoned, untreated oak"
accustomed to particular conditions; experienced.
"she is a seasoned traveler"
If there's anything in the pan that you couldn't argue is physically part of the pan, you should clean it.
I think that's what my housemates have. I'm not a fan. They are real inconsistent with how they heat up.
For gas vs. electric vs. induction vs. infrared:
I've never cooked on gas so I can't speak to it. I always had normal electric ranges.
Then I got an induction stovetop and it was a game changer. Instead of using a heating element to heat the pot, it uses magnets to agitate the atoms in the cookware and that turns the pot into a heater.
For example, I can boil a pot of water in 2 minutes, faster than a microwave.
The downside is you HAVE to use magnetic pans for it to work (like cast iron.) If you have, say, an aluminum pan, you have to get a stainless steel plate, which will heat the pan and the pan heats the food, just like a normal electric stove.
Infrared works the same way as electric, it heats the pot which heats the food.
as a man who exclusively cooks on gas and wood stoves (see pic in diff comment thread for proof)
I love cast iron.
Give cast iron a try. It's cheap, lasts forever, and can be just as non stick as any "non stick" pan. Just clean it out and oil it again after use.. Or leave it be.. I'm not here to start a cast iron cleaning war
Sadly, metal hot make food hot is not the only factor. It's also the speed and responsiveness of the pan. If you have the money, look into 3-ply pans, stainless bottom (for induction, but works with everything), aluminum interior (for eveness of heat throughout the pan) and stainless interior/cooking surface. I've had some of my pans for 40 years and they look brand new. They're just as easy to clean as non-stick, if you use wooden utensils for a quick scrape before cleaning. All-clad is probably the best brand, I bought some recently, and they are just as good as the old ones I have, very rare these days. They can be found on eBay and craigslist used, and the used are just as good (have a few of those as well).
I love my cast iron pans, especially for searing and tortillas, but for sauces and risottos, 3-ply is a great option. It's really about the responsiveness.
Last thing, ceramisised cast-iron (like Le Creuset) is terrific for deep frying.
Consumer reports does a non-stick pan test where they fry an egg without oil repeatedly until it starts to stick. The point is that normal use degrades non stick surfaces, so every non-stick pan, no matter how fancy, will one day be garbage.
Don't get me wrong, I use both non-stick and metal surface pans. I think they both have their place, but I think of non-stick pans as expendable.
Cast iron pans are fucking heavy. As soon as I tried picking one up, I knew I don't want to cook with that on a regular basis.
I have gone through several non stick pans and they all suck because they will wear out relatively quickly. Eventually things will start to stick, and then you are in trouble because you have to treat them gently to avoid scraping off the nonstick coating, so you end up in a catch 22 situation where you can't actually scrub stuff off without making it worse.
I switched to a stainless steel pan about a year ago and I love it. The weight is somewhere in between cast iron and most nonstick pans. I've never had anything get horribly stuck to it, and it's not difficult to clean because you can use abrasive sponges or whatever without damaging it.
Ehhhh, even crappy nonstick will last years upon years as long as you do not use metal utensils or clean aggressively. (at least the kind of 'cheap' that's still somewhat maybe worth spending money on... there is always absolute made for trash garbage under capitalism...)
skill issue. it's easy to lift and use cast iron. proof:
(imperial measuring tape for scale)just work out, and do exercise. don't be a keyboard warrior who can barely lift his chicken nuggs.
hahahaha all these downvotes clearly mean nobody can take a joke lmao
Pan make food hot. But cold food make flimsy lightweight pan less hot too. Food just sort of simmers while sometimes you want scorching.
Cast iron, or heavy bottom stainless steel pan, stays hot while food touches the pan. More energy is stored in hot heavy bottom pan. Food gets scorched and this gives more roasty toasty flavour, which is better in my opinion. If you don't care for this, don't.
Also, heavy bottoms spread heat more evenly so everything is cooked at same speed (not the middle of the pan faster like most non-stick pans).
I can’t comment on the various toxicities…but I was a high-end chef for 20 years. Stainless (proper stainless, with a high quality underside) and cast iron pans were essential for their respective purposes. Non-stick pans generally weren’t used outside of breakfast in kitchens without a flattop. Copper was a gimmick for homeowners…never saw one in a kitchen. My understanding was the copper was on the outside and the shtick was it was supposed to regulate heat better…BS AFAIK…it just made them look slick and therefore easier to sell.
Stainless are the go-to for searing and sautées…nothing is going to stick if you know what you’re doing and monitor the pan. Cast iron was for things you started on the stovetop and moved to the oven to finish…and/or for things you blacken or crust. In my experience the same effect can be achieved with a stainless pan (never buy a pan with a plastic handle that can’t go in the oven and always cook with a hot-cloth)…but some chefs swear by cast iron for niche purposes and they’re certainly easier to clean and last longer, even if they’re useless for sauteeing (square shape).
Oh…woks can compliment stainless pans for sauteeing if you have people who know what they’re doing with them…you pretty much can’t leave a wok unattended…but they get the best results for what they’re made for (stir fry, fried rice, etc).
Gas is the only choice for proper heat regulation. All the other elements are out of the question for proper cooking.
Copper bottom- copper does have a much higher heat transferance rate than stainless. Around 20x for pure copper. However this is reduced by alloys and the combination of steel layers. The advantage of copper bottom is on a shitty stovetop, the faster heat distribution compensates for a poor heating source. In a commercial kitchen with good heating source, copper bottoms lower durability loses out. The lining is prone to bubbling, separating, and warping under rapid heat changes.
Personally I use my cast iron skillets completely against the "rules". I made spaghetti sauces in them for dinner last night. I usually end up stripping the seasoning every few months but I don't care. It takes 20 minutes to do 2 layers of a stovetop seasoning. I have used the same set for over 30 years now.
I’m no longer a professional chef…and I almost exclusively use a cast iron pan over a wood fire to cook (when I use a pan). There’s pretty much nothing you can’t cook in it as long as you’re vigilant. It’s simple to keep clean and seasoned.
It's a tool. Like a hammer.
Hammer hit nail, nail go in. But if you look for hammers you'll quickly find that there's a dozen or so different hammers available, all of which make nail go in.
Different hammers are for different types of hitting things.
Different cooking pans are for different types of cooking. All of them make food go hot.
Stainless steel make food go hot and also make pan sauce and clean real easy. But food sometimes stick. This is considered a feature, not a flaw.
Non stick make food go hot but food no stick. Doesn't last very long but it's very easy to clean. If you really love eggs they're a necessity.
Cast iron make food go hot and stay hot longer. But they don't heat very evenly and they're hard to clean, this is also considered a feature by... Certain people...
For some reason there's a community of gooners for cast iron. I cook a lot and have long since abandoned 99% of my cast iron cookware. The only things that survived was a burger press and a Dutch oven that has a ceramic glaze on it so it's easy to keep clean. I find that for just make food go hot, cast iron is not as good at it as stainless steel is. But if I'm making a stew, or bread, or frying something, a really big cast iron vessel really is the best thing. It stays at a temperature longer than anything else does, and that matters in specific applications.
i couldn't disagree harder. i can cook eggs any style you like in cast iron with absolutely no sticking issues. slides around like they're on ice.
I really loved your answer since it puts into words a lot of similar thoughts I've had on cookware since I see too much cast iron love IMO. It's got its uses, but not like it does everything.
Also, to add to people's toolbelt: Carbon steel make food go hot fast and acts like cast iron (with how seasoning works and the surface interacts with food which also means it's harder to clean) but much lighter so you can more easily use techniques that move the pan or wok without tiring out your arms and wrist. Great for frying.
Hard disagree. Eggs are the first thing I ever learned to cook, and I can make them consistently how I like them, every time... or I could, until I started using non-stick pans. For a few years I struggled to make a proper egg and couldn't figure out why. Switched back to stainless steel pans, perfect eggs every time.
I really, really don't like teflon/PFAS/whatever non-stick pans. Just plain steel or cast iron for me. The consistency matters, and I just can't get that from non-stick coated pans.
As someone who learned way more about pans than I really want to know, let me say that a good cook can make good food in any pan, however some pans are more suited to tasks than others.
First off, searing meat in a non-stick pan (traditionally Teflon) is a bad idea, the pan can reach temperatures that produce toxic gases, and are known to kill birds that are more sensitive to them than we are. The coating that makes them nonstick isn't very durable and will at most last a few years before being useless. While other kinds of pans are likely to outlive you.
Other common pans include cast iron, stainless steel, carbon steel, and ceramic non-stick (non-toxic, but are delicate)
Specifically for searing meets, my favorite is stainless steel. It holds heat similar to cast iron, but is slightly more conductive and can transfer a lot of heat to sear meat. Meat also literally bonds to pan and can be used to make great flavorful sauces with deglazing. Cleanup is easy, if anything is really stuck just boil water in it to loosen. Alternatively stainless steel holds up decent in a dishwasher. Cleanup can't be easier than automatic. However, stainless steel is still quite heavy.
For general purpose cooking my personal favorite is carbon steel. It's seasoned like cast iron and can be quite nonstick, but is much lighter making it feel very similar to nonstick pans, which are made with aluminum.
I won't lie, seasoning has a learning curve. Seasoning is very tough under some circumstances, and very delicate under others. Notably acid will eat the seasoning away.
Cast iron is great, but it is so heavy that it is inconvenient to use.
All will work with induction, except for cheap aluminum nonstick pans
Got a cast iron pot for the first time a few months ago gifted to me. The heaviness really is a thing.
Popcorn is very hard to do, because it's so heavy to keep the pot moving the whole time (don't know another technique to make popcorn in a normal pot).
Draining pasta water without a colander is near impossible. Yes, just use a colander. But it takes away the flexibility of a light-weight pot, where you can absolutely get by without one, just making pasta meals.
Taking it out and putting it away is actually not that easy.
My 5 cents of living with cast iron pot.
Duck non-stick.
Treated myself to Le Creuset and will probably never have to buy something again lol.
Cast iron has a crap ton of mass compared to other pans you mentioned, so if you're searing a stake you're going to have a more consistent temp as the temperatures of the pan and the steak equilize. Enough to make a difference? No idea but it could possibly have something to it there
Anecdotally I get better results using cast iron vs. stainless when doing steaks.
"Pan gets hot" does not fully specify how something cooks. Does it spread heat quickly and evenly? Have a high thermal capacity? Stick to meat forming a harder sear? All of these are good or bad depending on what you are trying to do.
If I could only have one pan, Le Creuset Dutch oven, no question.
Cast iron is not good for acidic foods or foods that require heat variation.
Yes
Non-stick is terrible for anything that needs real frying, because the non-stick coating breaks down at high temperatures (generally manufacturer recommendations are to keep the pan under 400f / 204c. I've had the coating start browning and changing at lower temperatures than that.
I have cast iron pans, but I can't be bothered to maintain them so they mostly sit in the cabinet. I need to sand and re-coat mine currently, as they've got some rust spots, and I don't really use them.
I swear by steel pans. They work great on any stove type (gas, electric, induction, doesn't matter), have enough heft but are lighter than cast iron, and they can handle high heat and even be baked so long as the handle is also steel. The trick to stainless is making sure it's hot enough for water to dance on, and nothing will stick. I tend to use a bit of oil and then a bit of butter when cooking in them and they're practically non-stick that way anyway, just give it a rinse and wash while it's still hot and everything comes right off.
Plus, there are some foods you actually want to stick a bit sometimes, like when you're searing meats and later using the glaze from the pan for a sauce.
If you're using steel and accidentally leave it and stuff is stuck to it, no need to panic, just put some water in the pan, heat it up (preferably with a lid on), and once it's hot, everything should come off easily.
Edit - one trick to cooking with a stainless steel pan that I've found specifically when cooking with oil (olive oil generally) - When the oil becomes thin and moves around the pan easily you're generally good, but if you leave it sit on medium heat until the oil makes a sort of sine wave pattern where the edges of the pan start to curve up, you're set, nothing will stick.
The solution to all this mess is to buy good quality pans that meet your cooking needs and learn how to care for them, I have cast iron that belonged to my grandparents, I also have good nonstick pans,stainless pans and carbon steel they all have their uses. But if someone just wants a pan and doesn't cook alot I would go with carbon steel, it's more expensive, but you will probably only buy it once, (Vimes boots)and it does most thing well enough.
No. It’s more versatile than most pans, but that starts and ends with “you can put it in the oven”.
The cast iron cult is just as other weird subculture that developed from people who are online too much. They’re pans. They’re fine.
And most importantly they can last a lifetime. I got frustrated replacing non-stick pans every decade or so, now I expect not ever to do that again
Most cheaper pans don't even last 2 years, let alone a decade. Cast Iron can't really break, worst is you have to redo the seasoning
And that’s another advantage of cast iron for me: cost.
Sometimes it's not about metal hot. It's about how fast or slowly metal gets hot.
A lot of pans are made of stamped sheet metal and quite thin. They get hot very fast, they cool down very fast. With something like a gas burner, you can get a ring of very hot metal where the flames are, and relatively cool metal everywhere else.
Cast iron is thicker, and has a lot more thermal mass. It heats up slower, it evens that heat out, and it hangs onto that heat.
If you were to try to bake cornmeal in a sheet steel pan, it would burn. The metal would get too hot too fast. I prefer cast iron for making rues as well, because you get much more even heat.
Sometimes you do want a lighter pan for concentrated high-heat applications. Woks are designed for cooking over a very hot, very concentrated flame so there's one very hot spot in the pan, perfect for stir frying.
If you know what you're doing, you can cook non-stick in a stainless pan, it just takes some oil. Famously, cast iron pans can be "seasoned" or coated with a thin layer of extremely smooth polymerized oil which forms a non-stick surface, like DIY teflon.
So, honestly, I would recommend having a couple of each and choose the pan for the kind of cooking you're doing.
Non stick: alright for eggs and other relatively low temperature stuff. Make sure you only use rubber, plastic, or other soft utensils, and never clean it with a scraper or steel wool. The surface of the non stick is fine as far as I know, but if you go deeper by getting too hot or scraping with something too hard, you can expose the toxic chemicals.
Stainless: my go to. Use whatever utensils you want, and clean it however you want. The main thing to make it non stick is heat the pan up hot enough that when you splash a bit of water on it, it beads up and scatters. Then use plenty of oil. The main downside is you usually can't put them in the oven.
Cast iron: better in use than stainless, but harder to clean. Upside is you can use whatever with them, and you can swap between oven and stove. Downside is you can't clean them the same way as anything else.
Do not use steel wool on stainless. It can pit it and the steel wool can shed in those pits.
I personally cook with a mix of stainless, high carbon, and cast iron and have moved on from gas to induction, with loving my induction and steel pan combo.
I don't care for non-stick due to its short lifespan, not great a searing, and having to replace them every couple of years creating waste and chemicals.
I've found that cast iron with a properly done seasoning and just a little bit of oil, which come on almost no one is cooking without a little bit of oil, I've got a perfectly great non-stick surface that can do eggs, including omurice, and salmon without anything sticking and cleanup is fine, if I get some stuck bits, just take a plastic scraper and then just clean as normal with or without soap depending (yeah, keep it to yourself purists)
My two cents
why a plastic scraper? get a nice metal spatula, or my preference a steel fish turner. you're not going to hurt the surface. scrape that bitch with an elongated metal blade.
I simply do not like doing hard scraping with a metal spatula and the potential to gouge the seasoning.
Non stick usually implies teflon coating. Throw it out.
I have some cast iron cookware. Fun to use, the end result does feel different, heat disperses well and evenly and keeps warm for longer.
It can be used over nearly any heat source, with similar results, but I do prefer induction. More efficient and less prone no mishaps.
This is not religion. If you don't belong to my exact sect of christianity you are going to hell. However if you use a differet pan than me or even have a mix there is nothing wrong with it. So get and have a mix and learn what each does well / poorly.
i won't fry an egg on anything other than non-stick. I won't sear a steak in that, or my stainless (my stove takes too long to get my thick stainless to temperature - ymmv with different pans or a better stove), so cast iron it is. Most of my cooking is in cast iron because it is cheap and versital, but I use my stainless often enough that I'm keeping them.
Watch a video on how to cook properly on a stainless pan. Changed my outlook on from how I thought they were trash to they are my favorite to use in daily stove cooking.
Also I use steel wool to clean them when it's needed.
Carbon steel is great as well and to be treated like cast iron on the seasoning side of things. The woks usually heat up really quickly and pretty non stick like iron and it's totally ok to use metal cooking utensils.
I stay away from chemically non stick just from how toxic that stuff becomes after it ages past it's prime.
what about enamaled pans?
i don’t like the thought that i will be spending more time with my pans outside of cooking then cleaning the regular ones. and i don’t want to manage my pans intake like its a diabetic that can’t handle tomato based foods.
Enameled cast iron is very good, but I find it's not quite as nonstick as a properly seasoned not-enameled cast iron. Enameled pans are rockstars for acidic sauces, though, and that makes them amazing for braises.
I use stainless for acidic foods. Most of the advantages of cast iron are irrelevant when you're making a sauce anyway, since the water adds mass, distributes heat and deglazes the bottom.
Stainless is just a piece of metal. Indestructible. No rules. Requires some skill to avoid food sticking, but it is doable. You can cook anything, anyhow and clean it however you want.
Non-stick is... well, non-stick, but there's a ton on rules. No metal, no dishwasher, no stacking, ... However they are really non-stick, no skill required.
Cast iron is like a middle ground. You cannot ruin the pan, but you can easily ruin the coating: no wine, no tomato, no lemon, no soap, no dishwasher, etc. And the non-stick effect is weaker than Teflon or ceramic, it still requires skill to use.
As a hobby cook I have never gotten into cast iron, I use 90% stainless steel and 10% non stick (mainly for pancakes) and for my wife who doesn't want to fiddle with temperatures with stainless.
I lack the subtlety to tell you if my cast iron pan cooks better or makes anything taste better, but I can assure you it regularly survives abuse that would ruin a Teflon pan in days.
Yes. Cast iron is best. It and high carbon steel are the only real "non stick" because thyre the only ones you can season. Dont use "nonstick" pans they are just pollutants and give you cancer. Seasoning cast iron is easy (really... Do less! Stop reaming it and scrubbing it to death... just get it really hot and wipe it). Cast iron last forever... these other things become garbage in 1-5 yrs
Ceramic non-stick is pretty great. I've used cast-iron and it's fine, but it's kind of fussy when it comes to cleanup.
No it isn't. You can wash cast iron with regular dish soap, unless you're still using lye soap. The "cast iron is difficult to clean" stuff is corporate propaganda from Teflon.
The only thing you can't do is chuck them in the dishwasher.
But mine usually clean with a quick rinse and 5 seconds of brushing.
Neat!
Define "better".
It's heat- when preheated properly- is much more even and it holds it quite a bit better. This of course, requires preheating (and that takes a long moment.)
when properly seasoned and oiled, the pan is genuinely nonstick to the same degree as most PTFE pan out there (without all the nasty plastics flaking off, and able to be get up to a proper temperature for searing in the first place...) But of course, this means keeping your pan properly seasoned.
I'm not a fan of lodge cast iron, though, IMO its too much work to develop and maintain that level of seasoning (because of it's surface. Victoria is a better inexpensive option if you're looking to buy new.) But I also rock a lodge when camping (Because I don't want to subject my really nice, inherited stuff to campfire cooking.) but cast iron can take the abuse of cooking right on coals and other campfire torture (like being cleaned with sand.)
Of course, you have to clean up/care for that camp pan after the fact.
The point being made is that everyone has a different understanding of what is "best", cast iron does require a significant investment in maintenance and care. For me, the effort is worth it. for many it's not.
for what cast iron does well, it's amazing. And really, the biggest problem is that it's not so good for acidic things (which eats away the seasoning, but that's more like 'don't try and make a pasta sauce' rather than "don't splash in some citrus."
I recently got an induction stove (not even one of the expensive ones) and am so blown away by how fast it can heat up cast iron pans. It's seconds, not minutes.
I mean I'm sure it's pretty much instant with pans of lower mass, but instant isn't what I need.
Oh yeah. actually have to be careful to not heat it too quickly, though. I'm not sure what that threshold is, though. Inductive cooktops are lovely, though. Much better than electric cooktops, and lacking in all the unpleasant pollution of gas.
Cast iron is horrible at heat distribution and responsiveness.
“When properly preheated, the heat is very even” isn’t contradicted to that fact.
Cast iron does indeed suck at heat distribution, which is one of the reasons it needs proper preheating.
But once the pan is properly preheated, then that heat is quite even.
Make sense?
This is factually wrong from the jump.
Cast iron does not heat evenly.
Cast iron quite specifically is very good at heat retention. Heat distribution suffers as a consequence. What you're seeing as heat distribution is the consequence of having to preheat your pan for so long.
Yup...if you're patient and wait for the heat to spread to the whole pan, the entire thing will be hot and stay hot for a long time...even the handle.
So you’re saying that, properly preheated, the pan has very even heat?
Gee why didn’t I … oh. That’s is what I’m saying.
You’re right, if you don’t preheat, it’s uneven. But you put in the extra effort and it’s rather more even than nearly any kind of pan.
I highly doubt you're throwing your pan in the oven or letting it sit in a burner for an hour every time you need to cook something. There's a hot spot that you, as a result of using it for so long, are aware of, and that's where 90% of your cooking is taking place.
It doesn't take an hour to preheat cast iron
FTA:
(emphasis mine.) Ovens typically take 10-20 minutes to come up to temperature, and if for whatever reason your oven is already hot, it won't take longer than what your oven takes to preheat to to get up to temp.
Either way, I typically start preheating as I'm prepping everything else.
And yes, I know I have an even pan because I not-infrequently make omelettes in them.
I agree with the wife. Cast iron for steaks and searing red meats, non-stick for everything else.
At the end of the day, what you should care about most is the fact that you're lucky enough to have a wife who knows how to cook. In my house, I have to handle all the cooking and dishes. But at least she does the dusting and the laundry—both of which I hate doing—so it evens out I guess.
Cast iron flavors the dish some. A seasoned one adds the oils and other stuff used to season it as well.
I have Lodge cast iron and De Buyer carbon steel and I definitely prefer the carbon steel. I do have non stick for things like eggs or pancakes but they don't last forever, I get a few years of use. I recently replaced my old Tfal PTFE with Blue Diamond and I'm quite happy with them.
They're all fine with some extendent. It really depends specifically what and how you're cooking. I like cast iron for steak because you can heat it up a helluva lot, even without fat, while trying that with non-stick pans can damage the coating and make some weird smells. Similarly, I prefer it for frying eggs because I like to use a metal slice to flip eggs, and worry about scarcjing my non-stick. But I have both and happily use both.
I like it. I got rid of all my non stick pans. They eventually get scratched and at that point they leak toxins. I have two very old pans and a hundred year old lid that I got for nothing. They were being thrown away from a camper that was being scrapped. They work well and after I finally learned the ins and outs of seasoning them they dont stick, much.
No one with a cast iron pan would ask this question
Induction > glass ceramic (infrared) > gas > cast iron electric > fire
Why ceramic over gas? Because gas is a bit more responsive but
And btw, why is induction still more expensive than ceramic? It's not that new a tech anymore.
I love my cast irons, I have a carbon steel one, that is even more work to care for, but gets really hot and is great for searing. I would like a stainless one for more of a nonstick option though.
Do you not season them? Mine let's eggs go as soon as they start to maillard.
Nah, honestly, any more than you need to backwards breathe to enjoy wine
Uh why not? I'm pretty sure you CAN just re-season the pan.
you can. it's just a lot of work. you also have to clean it without soap.
cast iron isn't 'easy' to use or maintain.
You can use soap with it.
I have been using the same cast irons for a decade and I use dawn dish soap, scrape it with stainless steel pads, cook acidic foods in it, have accidentally left it on a burner on high for long enough it set off a smoke alarm twice, let them soak with water overnight occasionally, and heat shock them about half the time I use them.
They have no damage and they cost under $20 brand new. You shouldn’t use lye based soap on them because that causes saponification of the seasoning but even if you do all you have to do is reseason them. Cast irons are only a lot of work if you follow imaginary rules with them, basically the only thing you shouldn’t do is put them in the dishwasher
Bingo. They are breathtakingly low maintenance once you use them.
OP, use what you like, that’s the only trick. If you force yourself to use the “right” stuff, you will get annoyed and stop using them. Use them, find out what works and enjoy.
I started with a set of basic target brand non-stick. I mostly use cast iron and stainless steel now (been doing this for 30 years). I do keep a non-stick for eggs and such, but it’s the least used pan I have.
Same here. I wash my pans with soap if they need it, dry them well and hang them up. Occasionally will rub a little oil in once they are all the way dry. Have been going for about 30 years, most of them. I did have to train my husband, he was soaking them overnight and that does mess with the seasoning. Now he either cleans immediately and dries it or throws it in the oven dirty to do later.
IME they are nearly indestructible and you don't need to be so careful. The cast iron is my daily driver and I am not a gentle fussy cook. Just don't soak them in hot soapy water for hours.
You can't use soap with free lye in it. Any modern dish soap is fine. Just don't go making your own soap out of lye and fat like in the olden days, because then you'll probably have free lye in it.
There's a bunch of imaginary rules around cast iron, some of which was relevant 40 or 50 years ago and some of which has always been misleading.
Truth is, the more you cook with a cast iron pan, using oil or whatever other fats, the more it's seasoned. You don't have to re-season it at all unless you somehow manage to strip the existing seasoning.
The only thing you can't just "fix" on cast iron is a crack.
I re-season mine whenever. It's perpetual non stick. It's amazing. Never need a new pan
Go with a carbon steel pan over cast iron. Similar performance but without the weight.
nonstick gets ruined in 9 months, maybe longer if you pay more or are careful. i got my carbon steel pan 3 years ago and stopped replacing nonstick. Didn't cost that much either, got it on a sale. Pair your carbon steel with a metal fish turner and you'll be in heaven. No plastic/rubber in your food, the thin edge gets under everything easily, and it makes deglazing a snap.
Hah I bet we have the same fish spatula!
I ended up with the OxO but it's on it's way out. I like the wood handle, may I ask the brand/model of yours?
New Star Foodservice 43068 Wood... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B019R31DJC
It fits the bill of cheap and reliable, but not "modern"*. The heat retention is very useful, and handling the surface of the pan itself is easy when you're using it to cook constantly.
Non-stick more often than not is going to be cheap and modern, but not reliable because high quality non stick pans are expensive (or people opt for enamel instead because of low quality PTFE/PFAS that both scrapes off easily and can't handle high heat which is dangerous, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-eBmPSqd4g)
I would argue the "upgrade" to cast iron is carbon steel, which is much more common as a wok material. You get a nice balance between affordable, reliable, and modern.
The tier list is:
Gas and Induction is always preferable because infrared is slow enough to be at the best annoying and at the worst less forgiving if you mess up the temperature. Induction comes with the great advantage that it doesn't require a special gas line, and you can actually buy single unit cooktops for pretty cheap, but do keep in mind that induction only works on magnetic metals (won't work with pure copper or aluminum).
In particular non-stick pans are aluminum and induction-ready ones might be quite a bit more expensive. Just another reason for any other type of pan
I think that it is a joy to cook with my cast iron pans, but there is a number of caveats that other repliers already mentioned.
One of the points that I did not read yet, is that if you have really acidic foods, your cast iron seasoning will wear out fast. For those use cases, I stick (hehe) with ceramic pans.
You can get good sears on nonstick. We've done it for years.
Nonstick is easier to use and clean, but you'll have to buy a new one every year or two, depending on how hard you are on them. Cast iron is practically indestructible in that you can almost always bring it back to usable condition; but keeping it usable takes more care. There's also carbon steel if cast iron is too heavy for you.
Better at what? Most certainly better at splitting someone's skull open if they're in your home without an invitation. Hands down.
realistically, whichever one your most experienced with (and your cooktops are made for) is best
they're all basically the same, the issue is when recipes/directions assume one type of cook setup and the cook doesn't know any better
No
A good quality stainless set is far superior imho, you can actually keep it clean and dont have to mess around with seasoning it. Also, if you drop it, it won't break your foot and/or flooring. Cast iron is a fad that frankly is already dying out.
I don’t know what you consider good quality stainless but my 5 layer stainless pans are almost as heavy as my cast iron
I'm using a revereware pan that's been with my family for 35 years, lightweight and works very well for my uses. Sure, a heavier one would hold more heat but I've never found myself wanting a different pan. I also have a larger, newer one, a cuisinart pan that is a heavier due to size but nothing compared to cast iron.
I guess after a few hundred years it's time to move on from cast iron
Speak for yourself: I don’t intend to keep mine nearly as long. “Buy it for life” is not usually multiple centuries
"some say this house is haunted. I've lived here 450 years and have never seen a ghost."
My big question with older cast iron is had they been used to melt lead down to make bullets? I know it's at least an occasional concern - another reason along with the cleaning issues and having them always smoke up kitchens to happily avoid them. I would refuse one as a gift, even.
More likely to make fishing weights I would think. That concern is why I don't have any old cast iron.
I'm literally going to be bequeathing my cast iron pans to my children in my will.
I recently watched a video on the topic of which pans you need, and the only two that were mentioned as important are non-stick and stainless steel
No.