That's why before any children visit my house, I take all of the sockets out of the walls and leave the bare wires dangling from the receptacle. You want to charge your phone? Take this outlet and screwdriver. Oh, got a bit fried? Lesson one: check the breaker before doing electrical work, idiot.
Good times! My current rental has no ground for any of the outlets and refused to admit it was an issue. I had to put in GFCIs on every circuit to make sure I don't get killed by some random appliance.
I fixed this problem because I don’t want them to die in the bath tub but when they bought the house the ground wire was broken about 2 feet outside the house. Just hangin in the air lol.
I was on a trip with my partner (I am female, partner is male), and when we got off the train to go home, we had a flat tire.
He is not handy at all, and got super flustered and frustrated and was going to call AAA, and I was like umm.. you have a spare in here, right? Time to learn how to change a tire! Pop that trunk!
And so I made him do it, and walked him through how, and now he knows for next time, yay! I’ve also fixed his dishwasher, patched drywall, several other plumbing things, etc. only thing I wont touch for someone else is electric. I wont even do my own unless its a plug-in thing.
He, in turn, helped me with building my computer and doing various software stuff I could probably do on my own but didn’t know how.
So even if those skills aren’t super useful for you directly, you can and will use them with other people and you can pass on the knowledge. I mean I learned to change a tire as a very young adult, from an off-duty cop who stopped to help on the side of the highway. I knew the basics, but he showed me the full process. And since then I’ve taught two others, but haven’t needed it for myself.
I love this approach. Learn so, if nothing else, you can teach others.
One of my first boyfriends showed me how to build a computer, he walked me through how to pick parts and check features, but I decided what to buy. When I had everything he showed me how to put it together and get it working.
Ten years later a different boyfriend's laptop conked out. I got him his own set of tools and said "Time to learn how a computer works."
My rule (and one from a buddy at work) is that in order to be allowed to drive alone my kids are going to be expected to explain to me how to change a tire, check basic fluids, and replace a headlamp/brakelamp.
I don't care if they are physically capable of doing it (they are pretty petite girls and some people torque the hell out of lugbolts/nuts) but in case they ever require help from someone, they should be able to recognize if it is correctly done, or if the person is acting shady.
The headlamp is going to become the sign we are old. Newer cars are making them damn near inaccessible behind more engine components that keep being added. Some of them I've had to take the wheel panels off to go through that way.
A similar thing happened with me and my sister. We were riding with our then boyfriends somewhere and got a flat. Niether of the guys knew how to change it. Both my sister and I did. It was late, and a cop stopped to check on us, a lady cop, she laughed when we told her what was going on, taught both of them right then and there how to change the tire.
I also helped a younger girl change her tire for her in a parking lot, she was really greatful she didn't have to call her dad.
This. So much this. And I want to break it down a bit and give my own experiences.
Years ago, I was teaching my then-girlfriend how to change her oil. We were broke 20-somethings, so paying for a place to do it was a costly option. She was kinda "meh" on the idea but went with it. The moment she really got into it, though, was when a random guy walked by and was so happy seeing a woman learning how to take care of cars and how he wished his girl would learn that. She got a sense of pride from it, and afterwards, when she realised she did it herself and saved a bunch of money... she was very proud of herself. Rightfully so.
A (former) friend of mine had bought her first house just a couple of years ago. (Kinda wish she hadn't because the house is in rough shape, but then again, the rental market is maybe in a worse shape... only time will tell). Anywho, I visit her, and she shows me the house. Not a single smoke detector anywhere in the house. No fire extinguishers anywhere. And in the living room, there was this fancy light fixture that was controlled by a dimmer switch... that was extremely hot. I think it was 6-8 bulbs (don't recall) and each was 120w incandescent lightbulb... all through a dimmer. Unsure when the previous owner did that, but that's a decent way to eventually cause a fire. The dimmer switch was literally hot to the touch. She knew it was hot, but didn't really think anything of it. I took us to Home Depot/Menards/Fleet Farm (I don't recall which exactly) and bought her a bunch of smoke detectors, extinguishers, and a new dimmer switch, which I installed, and we removed half the bulbs. Believe I also gave her a GFCI tester and told her to test every receptacle in the house.
Back in high school, I took a small engines course because I wanted to better know how engines really worked outside of a book. My station partner was a girl I knew (who lived a few houses down from me). One day I realised I was hogging everything (teardown and rebuild) and apologised and pushed everything to her. She pushed it back, said her brothers would do anything she ever needed, and she just wanted an easy course. (While this is not important to the story, it was a very unattractive move on her part, which did alter how I saw her, which, a few years later, when she asked me out, I rejected her.) Another course I took, which was an intro to welding, there was a girl who thought I'd do her work for her. I took to acetylene welding right away, which seemed to be the hardest for everyone else (hence why she picked me). Instead, I told her I'd help teach her, which she took me up on. The unbridled joy and pride when she got an A on her welding test... (a memory that leaves with me).
Final story, I was in college, and my roommate was a loser. He had no fucking idea how to cook. He tried to make Mac and Cheese once and didn't know how to boil water. He had no idea how the washer/dryer worked. His mom asked if I'd teach him. And I did try, but he had no plans to learn; he'd rather drive the 2-3 hours back home to make his mom do his laundry. Or if he couldn't make it that week, he'd just buy new clothes.
All kids should be taught all sorts of basic skills. And frankly, a bunch of adults could stand to learn things too. Example, do you know what an anode rod is? If not, I'm guessing you've been skipping out on maintenance. Do you know if your heater is gas/electric? And which one has a pilot light? Do you have a spare tire? Where is it? Have you ever used the jack on your car before? What are jumper cables and do you have some? How do they work and how do you use them correctly? Every adult should be able to answer all these questions and more.
I feel like you people are doing something incredibly wrong. I've built and fuddeled with several computers over the years now and never once cut myself on one.
Plumbing or automotive work? Scrape my knuckles every time. Never with a computer.
I saw that yesterday. I tried to explain to my wife how absurd it is that the same 64GB RAM kit I bought a few months ago for $210 is currently over $760.
Yeah it's mental. I've been thinking about building a dedicated gaming rig to play older multiplayer stuff via steam stream since my proxmox box has an older Xeon chip, but I'll be damned at these prices.
Make mistakes in front of kids while doing this and show them it doesn't have to be a big deal if they "fail", as long as they're failing safely (slipping and skinning your knuckles while trying to remove a bolt on a car for example).
My father once wanted to demonstrate the danger of alcohol in combination with fire. So he got a seemingly empty bottle of some high percentage stuff and held a lighter to the opening.
I don't think getting massively burned on the thumb and having an enormous yellow burn blister for weeks was part of the plan. But it did help in getting the message across.
Just last week I finally set and held a boundary for my ex. I did NOT unclog her toilet. She figure it out . Now she has her own toilet snake and knows how to use it
Dad taught us that there is no such thing as women's work ..... there's just work.
Once you live on your own or in a space without women, you quickly realize how no one cares who does the dishes, washes your clothes or mops your floor.
Unless of course you want to live like a wild animal.
"We are equal partners sharing responsibility for maintaining our shared living space" is vastly different from "I don't do dishes because that's a woman's job"
And make your kids help with stuff regardless of gender. So many people grow up without basic life skills bc parents didn't involve them in activities regardless of the gender-coded-ness of those activities.
My mom deliberately didn’t give us chores, because she grew up with a strict father who overwhelmed her with them.
It backfired. I entered adulthood not even knowing how to use a broom. My first boss thought it was hilarious.
Please, teach your kid these skills. However, don’t use them as punishment! That just makes them all the harder to do independently. I have an ex who associated cleaning with being punished and, as a result, never volunteered to do it. Every household chore fell on me.
Please, teach your kid these skills. However, don’t use them as punishment!
This is the line to walk. I've framed chores with my son as 'personal responsibility'.
While at 12 he still struggles with the broom (I'll let him hand vac if that's what he prefers), he knows how to do his own laundry and cleans his bathroom himself often enough too. Chores are a part of living, do your part, I say. I grew up the eldest daughter of a home with no mother, everything fell to me. But I'm not going to ricochet that back and have my son be useless. It's a balance, to be helpful and responsible, this is the goal.
I have a friend who's wife refuses to let anyone in the house do chores because "Nobody does it the right way". Then gets completely overwhelmed with the amount of chores she has to do, and takes it out on my friend.
She seems to completely miss the point of teaching people "the right way" or "practice".
My kids are expected to do a chore a day, I have a list of available options with the only rule that most things can only be done once a week. I don't need the windows wiped down every single day, but Dishes and Laundry are always available. Even if they do something poorly, it is less than it was before and eventually they will get it done correctly.
I know my way around the kitchen. You stabbed the plastic film with a fork and then you put it in the microwave. If I'm feeling really adventurous I'll use the air fryer.
a step up from that would be frozen protein and veggies in the air fryer, maybe with a sauce packet that you just heat up in water, or maybe just ketchup. i recommend trying that because you usually get a wider variety of available food to try. and trying food you've maybe never eaten before is usually a good thing to do. it broades your vision.
Overheard a conversation a few years back where a group of guys were talking about how they didn't know how to cook or do laundry because that was woman's work and how they expected their mothers and / or wives to do that for them. It was so pathetic how proud they were that they could not take care of themselves.
My father is 65 and could not cook a Kraft dinner to save his own life. Forget laundry. His son (my brother) believes the same. Whenever he is single his apartment goes uncleaned, he exclusively eats take out, and his clothes are barely laundered.
Laundry (with a washing machine) is significantly easier than cooking (healthy/tasty food) tho. It takes me like 2 minutes combined to load up the machine, start up the cycle, and hang it out to dry; and an hour or so to cook a good meal for two.
I always wanted to help my mom with the cooking when we were growing up, but she was such a control freak that she would hardly even allow anyone else into the kitchen. I’m sure plenty of other mothers are like that, too.
But maybe the reason she didn't want you in the kitchen was because she didn't want you (or anyone) to watch her struggling. And the reason she's so critical is that she spent decades criticizing herself in there.
This was my wife. She didn't know how to cook, run a washing machine, run a dishwasher, any normal household task. Absolutely nothing because her mom wouldn't let her in fear she would mess something up.
I had to teach a 26 year old how to do everything to be self-sufficient and simply function day to day.
Everyone better stay out of my kitchen.
I'm all for teaching kids to cook. But I don't want amateurs on the field during the Super Sowl of cooking days.
As a child we always did the girls cook and boys clean method, which isn't as bad as it could be, but still leaves a lot to be desired. Instilled that boys need to be part of the work, but needlessly gender divided the work anyway 😐
I like the “who cooks does not clean” and vice-versa idea. Can just change who does what every so often. Plus it can be a great opportunity to show that you have to consider your impact on other people(don’t create a massive pile of work for them where it can be helped).
That was it for us but realistically it was more
A generational thing. Especially after divorces and stuff - all the aunts didn’t cooking, my uncle and my brothers and I did the setup/cleanup.
At one point they tried to get us do the cooking but I’m sorry but I’m flying in late the night before or early the morning of: that’s up to the locals. I can stop at the store to buy wine or something but cooking isn’t a realistic choice
But when we do Thanksgiving locally: if it’s my house I do most of it and my ex brings a couple sides. If it’s her house then vice versa
All the uncles on my wives side of the family are so useless at Thanksgiving. They don't cook, clean, clear their plate or even make their own plate. Its one of the most infuriating thing I have ever seen.
Will my potential kids be sharing the work equally? Definitely. I always got into so much trouble for asking why I had to do housework and my brother didn't.
I hadn't realised quite how different the female upbringing experience was to the male one until I talked about it with my partner. Quite different it turns out. We're both about 40, and from Ireland, and she was absolutely expected to do shit like this when the men weren't.
Event today some of her siblings families are heavily heavily sexist.
No kidding. The enforcement is often kind of brutal too. As a couple the house not being clean creates a pervasive sense of judgement that falls on the feminine half of a couple. It doesn't matter if they are a killer breadwinner with an amazing career and winning at life the messaging and conditioning from childhood and enforced by older friends and relatives is still that they are at their core a failure if their house doesn't meet regulation. That judgement is not extended to the masculine partner because he's kind of expected to be a hapless subordinate who maybe helps but is not responsible for it. That old "sorry about the state of the place" is practically just begging for social leniency from deeply ingrained shame.
If your fem partner is neurotic about cleanliness that's basically why. They are made to feel horrible about themselves when company comes calling.
This is so real, I swear to god. I joke about how neurotic I am about housework, and my house is always pristine, but still my worst nightmare is someone stopping by unexpectedly. My house can be spick and span and I'll still apologize for the state of it.
I didn't understand her fixation on these kind of expectations until I really got to know her family and discovered more about her upbringing. I didn't see it initially and if I'm honest, didn't really believe it, but slowly I came round to understanding. If the shoe was on the other foot I'd push back a lot too.
It's not just family and upbringing it's kind of enforced by basically everyone a little bit. House is a mess - oh (fem partner) must be struggling poor dear. The state of the house just sits in a corner of their mind all day everyday like a weight dragging them down like the telltale heart.
Once you see the effect of it you can't really unsee it.
Not in my family. Us women were expected to be the cooks, cleaners, everything. Every family get-together the men would just sit and talk and the boys would go out to play, and the older women would do the cooking, then come make the girls do the dishes.
My sister and I finally called them out on it, and to their credit they did try and make the boys help with the clean-up… although they never did that great of a job, because they’d never been taught how.
In our house Mom was the chef and us boys were the su-chefs. If you want to live under this roof you'd better help with the cooking, serving, cleaning and everything else in the household.
That's the best way to learn how to do it all yourself.
I was already rolling meatballs and frying schnitzels when I was in early high school.
Edit: I have been informed that I use Linux too much and that it is sous chef, not su-chef or sudo-chef. Although my mom is the root user.
For those who are talking about how this didn't happen in your household growing up, please remember you are 1, at best 2 generations removed from full on enforcement of gender roles suppressing things like this, many times physically enforced. So yea, maybe your dad was the one who baked the turkey or did the dishes, but you can be damn sure his dad didn't.
You should be doing that all year long. These are not ferral kind. You have a responsability to parent them.
Actually, the rush of the holiday is the time when they should participate slighty less if they are not old enough to do some task independently. Because you must move quick and there is less time for teaching.
I support teaching all kids what it takes to exist, regardless of gender.
I just popped in to say that back in the long ago, in my family, only so much help cleaning up was tolerated from men-folk before they were exiled to football on TV so the women could sit at the kitchen table and talk.
Trying to assist in cooking was nearly impossible by anyone who wasn't my grandmother or the aunts that had been cleared for assistance.
I was taught to cook and clean by these same people, but it was clear that at big family meals like Thanksgiving that most of us were in the way if we tried to assist.
I guess what I'm saying is, for sure teach everyone all of it, but big meals might not be the best time. (depending on size of family and a variety of other factors).
Lol, I'm a dude and, I remember when I was a kid, there was sometimes holiday stuff where the adults would make... the um... (okay I had to google it) it's called 湯圓 and I just mess with it while they were making it, I'd make weird shapes out of it lol. I don't think I actually helped, I'm just a troublemaker xD
I only know how to cook basic stuff, I suck at it. I know how to pan-fry eggs, but that's about it. I think I sort of know how to make a very basic 煎餅, from scratch, the mixing flour and egg and stuff, kinda forgot by now... but I have memories of doing it.
I kinda feel embarassed now that I talk about it. I have no life skills. (pls don't judge xD)
It's never too late to learn. Drag doesn't know any Chinese recipes, but bao should be pretty easy, and すひ is fun and simple, but still has technique to making it look nice. Heating up dried pasta and adding sauce is so easy drag already explained the recipe, so it's good for beginners.
My boys are now in their 30s. They always helped with the big family dinners. Even made a couple of them on their own for the rest of us. I do not understand how anyone in my age group, Gen X, could not have raised their sons to be completely independent but somehow, I'm in a minority.
My brother is the best chef in the family. You will always miss out on good food if you don't screen all your kids for chef talent. Gender roles often lead to people not doing things they might be good at.
Considering gender roles, commercial kitchens are primarily and historically male dominated. The idea of the woman always being the cook is extremely antiquated.
My daughter has been a helper since she was 2. We encouraged it despite the very obvious frustration and now we have a somewhat competent helper years later.
For anyone unaware how frustrating it can be. Watch the Omelette episode of Bluey...
She was expected to do chores as soon as we believed her capable. That included bringing her dirty laundry to the laundry room. Putting dirty clothes away. Cleaning plates before putting in the dishwasher.
You have to teach kids EVERYTHING its exhausting. When I first asked my daughter to put a plate in the kitchen the put it on the floor, just over the threshold of the door. She was about 18mo, and it was not malicious, just following my exact instructions.
Either way I fully support your parenting practice and I do the same <3
Oh man, my wife HATES the omelette episode, it's too real for her. I tend to do better with the kids when we cook together, but it's also down to the projects I pick. Making pasta from scratch is messy, fun, and you can be imprecise. Baking (her specialty) is not so forgiving.
Chores, I think, are easier to teach but harder to enforce.
Oof I feel her pain. Baking with children is rough
I try to do a lot of mise en place before the kids know I am cooking anything. I would put them all the ingredients for all states in pre measured and put into easy to pour containers. Often I'd make 1.5x the dough so I could cut off 1/3 and that's the kids bread - no matter how bad it is - I've still got the rest.
Well, the post mentions Thanksgiving, and since it's not October anymore, it's safe to some the OOP is talking about American Thanksgiving, so they are addressing Americans primarily, yes.
However, gender norms are not a uniquely American thing. And it's kind of weird to act like they are.
Also, someone posting some good advice online doesn't need to be a profound realization. Sometimes it's just someone sharing a good idea. You come across in these comments as rather pretentious.
My spouse once told me that she hadn't been allowed to play Risk because it was a boy's game. Apparently as a child she had been sent "back to the kitchen" to help with "women's chores" while the menfolk played strategy board games.
I didn't shed a tear when her dad passed. And neither did she.
My grandpa and my father in law were never taught how to cook.
My grandpa could make porridge and sandwiches. My father in law can grill, but that’s it. My dad doesn’t even grill.
There are definitely households where cooking is seen as feminine and boys aren’t encouraged.
Thankfully my family is full of excellent cooks and all of my brothers and I love to cook. Some of my favourite memories of holidays were cooking with my mom before Christmas Eve so we didn’t have to cook until Boxing Day. I think the cooking part was better than the eating part, we had a full on hors d’oeuvre assembly line.
Sometimes I forget that I am from a different culture. I'm European. You are likely Americans. Online discourse is dominantly American. So when people say shit sometimes, it makes no sense from my point of view, because we were not raised under whatever conditions you have suffered under.
I'm not bashing Americans. I kind of like Americans to a degree. But you're weird man. Sorry, sometimes it's hard to keep up with your day to day grievances. My bad. Maybe what the post says needs to be said.
I’m Canadian, but there’s a lot of overlap culturally. I have American cousins.
Totally agree this is weird. I don’t think it’s as much of an issue these days but you still have perks who feel a woman’s place is in the kitchen (generally they’re shit people).
My mom’s side is québécois and the culture around these things is much more sensible with them.
I have nothing against division of labor. In my family, my father cooked, and my mother worked (he worked too but mom worked harder and basically made the brunt of the income in our family), and that was expected, accepted, and agreed upon. In any relationship, people have duties that don't overlap, because it's more efficient and functional.
I get that the post is about some sort of passive aggressive general outrage against what I guess is misogyny, but I feel it's just misplaced in this case and a bit self indulgent, like, what she is saying is really "look at me, I made this major cultural discovery, and I would like to both announce it to the world how great I am, as well as admonish those who don't do it".
It's not the message, it's the smugness that gets fucking annoying, because I bet that person does a lot of shit others would consider bad parenting or being straight up immoral, and it irks other people like me.
I don’t have anything against division of labor, that’s totally natural. I don’t like people who believe that cooking is for girls and women only or that mentality.
My dad never learned to cook, clean, or take care of his own hair/clothes. He had 7 sisters who were all taught that taking care of the boys and the house was their main duty in life. None of those sisters ever touched a hammer or a wrench.
His dad never learned to cook, clean, or take care of himself in any way. He had 4 sisters who were all taught that taking care of the boys and the house was their main duty in life. None of those sisters ever touched a hammer or a wrench.
I have two boys - they were taught to cook and clean and take care of themselves. And once they had that basic stuff down they were taught the hammer and wrench.
Here is what I would like to say of my experience. Not to snap at this, or provoke a battle-of-the-genders. Just to say what I've experienced.
I'm a recovered germophobe but I still do the cleaning because it's not even work to me, it's just a casual part of my routine. I cook all from fresh and every meal, because I lost like 58kg after getting over my ED. My mother was insanely (abusively) strict when we were just small kids, so we were trained to clean the dishes, put things away, blah blah.
But anyways after sobering up and lots of therapy, the bad parts (the obsessive parts) of all that went away, but doing that stuff had just become an 'easy' part of my life.
But here's the little thing I don't even want to say. Women hate that shit lol. Isn't that awful to say? I'm always taken aback when I'm scolded for doing the things women say guys should do more of ahha
I think at my age it's a lot of the entrenched gender roles biting all sides. Yes, please open up the gates to the domains women historically have controlled. Guys need to shape up in a general sense in these areas, but let us in plz!
I agree, I'm just trapped in my generation and I hate it
And as much as people can verbalize the "right" things, people don't actually hold those attitudes deep in their hearts and they're not reflected in their actions to the degree we would hope
The number of people assert the way things should be but then don't actually want it is quite shocking to me
We have division of labor, particularly for big parties like Thanksgiving. I don't want help with cooking but don't want to have to clean up. That's our general division of labor because I legitimately enjoy cooking, and people legitimately love eating what I cook; and husband says he would much rather clean up. His dad is a better cook than his mom, I don't think it's a sexist thing. So sure I have to do more cooking (started yesterday) but he does more too. The kids just do overflow mostly and while all of them are competent in some way in a kitchen, the distribution of good cooks is not a gender split among them.
The technology split is more gendered, all of the boys (including the one who started out a girl) are gamers and can build a computer, 3/4 of the girls are gamers and technically competent but only one is willing to fuck around with the hardware. One, my oldest, is not at all comfortable with technology, does not want to know how anything works. But she worked construction/home renovation and is good with saw and drill.
My extended family operates thanksgiving as a potluck. My uncle hosts, he cooks several of the dishes served, one of my (female) cousins cooks the turkey itself, somehow it became traditional that I (male) carve it though. My father makes a pineapple punch, my mother makes the sweet potatoes, I often bake a pie of some kind.
Cooking, laundry, dishes, those don't seem to be gendered tasks in my family. In all but the bachelor's homes it seems women do the vacuuming, because the women seem to give more of a shit about the state of the floor. For most of my life lawn and leaf jobs were Male with a capital M, though my mother has started helping me rake (I live next door to my parents in what was my grandparents house, we share kind of an extended property) as kind of a reason to exercise, and one of my cousins took over mowing their lawn when my grandfather passed away.
Vehicle maintenance falls to the men as well, only one woman--my navy veteran cousin--would so much as touch anything with engine oil on it. Construction, house repair and basically anything else that involves a saw also tends to fall to the men; my mother refuses to climb ladders, I've never seen one of my cousins holding a hammer, meanwhile my father and I built our wood shop, and roofed my house.
Computers and gaming: A lot of my family games in some way or form. There are some gender stereotypes on display, one of the few games I've seen my aunt play is The Sims. My mother likes adventure and puzzle games, she's currently big into BluePrince. My father tends to be an arcade classics guy. OG gamer, he bought Space Invaders for the Atari 2600 on launch day and he and his best friend stayed up all night playing it. I've gone through phases with fighting games, FPS, simulators, etc. I'm the family computer hardware enthusiast. I think my father could build a PC, but the last time he did so was in the 1970s when he and his friend soldered together an Altair 8800 kit. Everybody else kinda refuses any chance to learn.
I do this and my wife doesnt. When it takes me an hour to clean after she cooks and 20 minutes after i cook, she seems confused.
Not only am i cleaning everything, she used 3 mixing bowls that you could have just rinsed and used 1, and you left all the spices and ingredients on the counter so i have to put all that away too. Filled the sink with unrinsed dishes and poured filthy water on them to let it sit, so all that hand clean stuff needs extra attention. Spilled and burnt shit all over the stove, etc.
Ive cleaned in restaurants where the cooks werent as messy lol
There's one mandatory exception to this: the cook should always be the default responsible person to clean pans & pots. Everyone who disagrees has never been on a camp with a bunch of kids who are just learning how to prepare food.
My mom made me do that 40 years ago already. That is a thing, no? Sure, it was Christmas dinner, as we didn't have thanksgiving, but it's the same nonetheless. You do it together as a family
Maybe "Herbstfest"? But more of a local thing. "Jahrmarkt" is even more local. Both are some kind of village-wide market events, the first more fall-themed (and grapes because "Weinland" switzerland) with changing locations each year.
Looks like american thanksgiving is how christmas is for us?
We have three eating holidays, Thanksgiving, Christmas, and Easter, and they're all about the same. There's loads of Germans and Dutch up here so people keep a lot of the European traditions, and I'd say you're probably right that Thanksgiving is more like your Christmas.
Maybe I didn't help cook as much but was my job to clean after pretty much every dinner. Always thanked my Mum for the dinner nightly (regardless of my taste preferences). Pretty much set the table for dinners all regular night and cleaned up.
Larger dinners with company she let me stop cleaning after awhile but these days I'd gladly clean till the end, she made the best dinners.
My wife has a bone cyst and her wrist is effectively unusable. Our teenage son volunteered to help me since we're one cook down in the kitchen this year.
my daughter wants to be a chef when she grows up, so i tend to involve her more in cooking and food prep. i do also teach my son how to make food and how to care for himself, obviously, but he doesn't have an interest in anything more advanced than that. my girl though, she's going to have at least one michelin star or i'll eat my hat.
Thanksgiving is for the kids to stay out of the kitchen. I teach cooking on other day. Cleanup is a different story. If you got hand you clean or youll catch hands.
Yep. One of the reasons women do all the housework, is because men where literally not taught how to. It may sound weird that someone can fix a car, paint a fence, but struggles with house chores.
No one taught me how to fix a car or paint a fence, yet I can do both. So can countless others with no such training across literally the entire spectrum of human capability.
People who claim they don't do housework because they 'were never taught how' are just feigning incompetence. I bet the vacuum becomes much less mystifying if I tie a $1000 prize to its successful operation, for example.
Sure but some people don't claim incompetence they are (no jugment here) incompetent. If you tell someone do the laundry but he had no idea it means:
sort the cloth
select the cycle nor how to select a cycle
add the detergent + any extraproduct
run the cycle
do that for each type on cloth you have sorted.
He might put white with colors, delicate with cotton. Add detergent but nothing to prevent color leaking. And select a cycle that too hot, damaging some cloth. He did it. He did his best. But his best is worst that when you are careless because he doesn't know what he is doing. If you would have realized he was not taught to do the laundry, you would have give more explanation or a few smaller tasks.
Sadly my stepdaughter had zero interest in cooking, but her kids (boy and girl) both have an intense interest. I'd like to think that my influence, partly borne from my own mother have zero interest in teaching me how, has helped foster it.
really proud of famously sought after and eligible playboys such as reddit and lemmy users coming together to really identify as societies peak. You guys clean at Christmas and challenge gender roles. Fucking peak. So weird that so many of you are struggling in the dating scene while those slob adult men seem to constantly be getting married. What gives?
Also consider beating your children with a pair of jumper cables, not out of anger, or the need to discipline them, but for the sheer joy of hitting a living human being with jumper canles.
Edit: my parents beat me with jumper cables all the time and it embiggened my cromulence. It's good for you. Like milk. Or calt. Or shumming.
Peeling and chopping doesn't have to be done in the same room. In fact, if you take those onions outside everyone will be grateful, and unlikely to come pester you.
No, sounds like you followed the instructions perfectly. (Edit: stand upwind for less onion discomfort. No one will notice you're really crying about everything.)
And don't forget to teach all the kids how to fix an electrical socket, change a tire, build a computer.
That's why before any children visit my house, I take all of the sockets out of the walls and leave the bare wires dangling from the receptacle. You want to charge your phone? Take this outlet and screwdriver. Oh, got a bit fried? Lesson one: check the breaker before doing electrical work, idiot.
The survivors go directly to trade school.
And place the hungry chihuahua in front of the circuit breaker. That way they learn to tame a dog and find the right switch. #twofer
That sounds like a lot of work. Just do like my parents did and buy a house that has all the electrical outlets red flagged and never fix them!
Good times! My current rental has no ground for any of the outlets and refused to admit it was an issue. I had to put in GFCIs on every circuit to make sure I don't get killed by some random appliance.
I fixed this problem because I don’t want them to die in the bath tub but when they bought the house the ground wire was broken about 2 feet outside the house. Just hangin in the air lol.
Genuinely good advice.
I was on a trip with my partner (I am female, partner is male), and when we got off the train to go home, we had a flat tire.
He is not handy at all, and got super flustered and frustrated and was going to call AAA, and I was like umm.. you have a spare in here, right? Time to learn how to change a tire! Pop that trunk!
And so I made him do it, and walked him through how, and now he knows for next time, yay! I’ve also fixed his dishwasher, patched drywall, several other plumbing things, etc. only thing I wont touch for someone else is electric. I wont even do my own unless its a plug-in thing.
He, in turn, helped me with building my computer and doing various software stuff I could probably do on my own but didn’t know how.
So even if those skills aren’t super useful for you directly, you can and will use them with other people and you can pass on the knowledge. I mean I learned to change a tire as a very young adult, from an off-duty cop who stopped to help on the side of the highway. I knew the basics, but he showed me the full process. And since then I’ve taught two others, but haven’t needed it for myself.
I love this approach. Learn so, if nothing else, you can teach others.
One of my first boyfriends showed me how to build a computer, he walked me through how to pick parts and check features, but I decided what to buy. When I had everything he showed me how to put it together and get it working.
Ten years later a different boyfriend's laptop conked out. I got him his own set of tools and said "Time to learn how a computer works."
My rule (and one from a buddy at work) is that in order to be allowed to drive alone my kids are going to be expected to explain to me how to change a tire, check basic fluids, and replace a headlamp/brakelamp.
I don't care if they are physically capable of doing it (they are pretty petite girls and some people torque the hell out of lugbolts/nuts) but in case they ever require help from someone, they should be able to recognize if it is correctly done, or if the person is acting shady.
The headlamp is going to become the sign we are old. Newer cars are making them damn near inaccessible behind more engine components that keep being added. Some of them I've had to take the wheel panels off to go through that way.
They used to be so simple, bring back those days.
A similar thing happened with me and my sister. We were riding with our then boyfriends somewhere and got a flat. Niether of the guys knew how to change it. Both my sister and I did. It was late, and a cop stopped to check on us, a lady cop, she laughed when we told her what was going on, taught both of them right then and there how to change the tire.
I also helped a younger girl change her tire for her in a parking lot, she was really greatful she didn't have to call her dad.
This. So much this. And I want to break it down a bit and give my own experiences.
Years ago, I was teaching my then-girlfriend how to change her oil. We were broke 20-somethings, so paying for a place to do it was a costly option. She was kinda "meh" on the idea but went with it. The moment she really got into it, though, was when a random guy walked by and was so happy seeing a woman learning how to take care of cars and how he wished his girl would learn that. She got a sense of pride from it, and afterwards, when she realised she did it herself and saved a bunch of money... she was very proud of herself. Rightfully so.
A (former) friend of mine had bought her first house just a couple of years ago. (Kinda wish she hadn't because the house is in rough shape, but then again, the rental market is maybe in a worse shape... only time will tell). Anywho, I visit her, and she shows me the house. Not a single smoke detector anywhere in the house. No fire extinguishers anywhere. And in the living room, there was this fancy light fixture that was controlled by a dimmer switch... that was extremely hot. I think it was 6-8 bulbs (don't recall) and each was 120w incandescent lightbulb... all through a dimmer. Unsure when the previous owner did that, but that's a decent way to eventually cause a fire. The dimmer switch was literally hot to the touch. She knew it was hot, but didn't really think anything of it. I took us to Home Depot/Menards/Fleet Farm (I don't recall which exactly) and bought her a bunch of smoke detectors, extinguishers, and a new dimmer switch, which I installed, and we removed half the bulbs. Believe I also gave her a GFCI tester and told her to test every receptacle in the house.
Back in high school, I took a small engines course because I wanted to better know how engines really worked outside of a book. My station partner was a girl I knew (who lived a few houses down from me). One day I realised I was hogging everything (teardown and rebuild) and apologised and pushed everything to her. She pushed it back, said her brothers would do anything she ever needed, and she just wanted an easy course. (While this is not important to the story, it was a very unattractive move on her part, which did alter how I saw her, which, a few years later, when she asked me out, I rejected her.) Another course I took, which was an intro to welding, there was a girl who thought I'd do her work for her. I took to acetylene welding right away, which seemed to be the hardest for everyone else (hence why she picked me). Instead, I told her I'd help teach her, which she took me up on. The unbridled joy and pride when she got an A on her welding test... (a memory that leaves with me).
Final story, I was in college, and my roommate was a loser. He had no fucking idea how to cook. He tried to make Mac and Cheese once and didn't know how to boil water. He had no idea how the washer/dryer worked. His mom asked if I'd teach him. And I did try, but he had no plans to learn; he'd rather drive the 2-3 hours back home to make his mom do his laundry. Or if he couldn't make it that week, he'd just buy new clothes.
All kids should be taught all sorts of basic skills. And frankly, a bunch of adults could stand to learn things too. Example, do you know what an anode rod is? If not, I'm guessing you've been skipping out on maintenance. Do you know if your heater is gas/electric? And which one has a pilot light? Do you have a spare tire? Where is it? Have you ever used the jack on your car before? What are jumper cables and do you have some? How do they work and how do you use them correctly? Every adult should be able to answer all these questions and more.
I really wish someone taught me to build a computer
It's like LEGO but with sharper edges.
Ah, the good old days of cheap cases, when every build took a blood sacrifice.
Good old days like yesterday.
Seriously, good luck finding one without a jagged metal edge waiting in eager anticipation for your supple flesh.
I feel like you people are doing something incredibly wrong. I've built and fuddeled with several computers over the years now and never once cut myself on one.
Plumbing or automotive work? Scrape my knuckles every time. Never with a computer.
I wanted to write: No better time to get started than now!
But looking at the RAM prices which are about to jump over to GPUs, maybe wait till after the AI bubble bursts.
32GB of DDR5 is north of $400, yeah might be best to wait.
I saw that yesterday. I tried to explain to my wife how absurd it is that the same 64GB RAM kit I bought a few months ago for $210 is currently over $760.
Yeah it's mental. I've been thinking about building a dedicated gaming rig to play older multiplayer stuff via steam stream since my proxmox box has an older Xeon chip, but I'll be damned at these prices.
So first you melt some sand...
Also mending, how to do laundry, plus how and when to compromise.
My daughter always helps me with oil changes. We love it.
Make mistakes in front of kids while doing this and show them it doesn't have to be a big deal if they "fail", as long as they're failing safely (slipping and skinning your knuckles while trying to remove a bolt on a car for example).
My father once wanted to demonstrate the danger of alcohol in combination with fire. So he got a seemingly empty bottle of some high percentage stuff and held a lighter to the opening.
I don't think getting massively burned on the thumb and having an enormous yellow burn blister for weeks was part of the plan. But it did help in getting the message across.
Oh noooo I'm glad he ended up being okay.
Plunging a toilet, cleaning a toilet.
Writing the theme tune, singing the theme tune.
Instructions unclear my dick is now stuck in the toilet
Just last week I finally set and held a boundary for my ex. I did NOT unclog her toilet. She figure it out . Now she has her own toilet snake and knows how to use it
It is all about the pull, not the push.
God I wish I knew how to do any of that. Thankfully there's![email protected] to teach me that now
How the electoral system works, how to use a gun, how to overthrow the government, measure out a shelf so it's horizontal.
I once saw someone who didn't know how to use a ruler to measure stuff. He held it in the middle of a sofa to find out how high it is.
Jokes on you lady, I only have sons, so boys do every chore.
Jokes on you lady, Thanksgiving isn't for another 320 days, 12 hours, and 50 minutes 😤
Jokes on you lady, what's thanksgiving?
The rest of the world may call it friendsgiving and celebrate it anyway ;)
Dad taught us that there is no such thing as women's work ..... there's just work.
Once you live on your own or in a space without women, you quickly realize how no one cares who does the dishes, washes your clothes or mops your floor.
Unless of course you want to live like a wild animal.
There is fair division of labor, though.
"We are equal partners sharing responsibility for maintaining our shared living space" is vastly different from "I don't do dishes because that's a woman's job"
Bonus: partners of every kind appreciate it if you do chores.
And make your kids help with stuff regardless of gender. So many people grow up without basic life skills bc parents didn't involve them in activities regardless of the gender-coded-ness of those activities.
My mom deliberately didn’t give us chores, because she grew up with a strict father who overwhelmed her with them.
It backfired. I entered adulthood not even knowing how to use a broom. My first boss thought it was hilarious.
Please, teach your kid these skills. However, don’t use them as punishment! That just makes them all the harder to do independently. I have an ex who associated cleaning with being punished and, as a result, never volunteered to do it. Every household chore fell on me.
This is the line to walk. I've framed chores with my son as 'personal responsibility'.
While at 12 he still struggles with the broom (I'll let him hand vac if that's what he prefers), he knows how to do his own laundry and cleans his bathroom himself often enough too. Chores are a part of living, do your part, I say. I grew up the eldest daughter of a home with no mother, everything fell to me. But I'm not going to ricochet that back and have my son be useless. It's a balance, to be helpful and responsible, this is the goal.
I grew up doing chores and failed to make my own kid do them. I thought I was being nice but I can tell I let her down now. :(
Kids need to have a childhood and feel useful both. Plus they are important skills
At our home, cooking and cleaning can for some reason bei either a punishment or a treat. Even the exact same action. It kinda puzzles me.
I have a friend who's wife refuses to let anyone in the house do chores because "Nobody does it the right way". Then gets completely overwhelmed with the amount of chores she has to do, and takes it out on my friend.
She seems to completely miss the point of teaching people "the right way" or "practice".
My kids are expected to do a chore a day, I have a list of available options with the only rule that most things can only be done once a week. I don't need the windows wiped down every single day, but Dishes and Laundry are always available. Even if they do something poorly, it is less than it was before and eventually they will get it done correctly.
It'll also make it so much easier to find a soulmate. Knowing one's way around a kitchen is a godsend for all.
I know my way around the kitchen. You stabbed the plastic film with a fork and then you put it in the microwave. If I'm feeling really adventurous I'll use the air fryer.
a step up from that would be frozen protein and veggies in the air fryer, maybe with a sauce packet that you just heat up in water, or maybe just ketchup. i recommend trying that because you usually get a wider variety of available food to try. and trying food you've maybe never eaten before is usually a good thing to do. it broades your vision.
I can't dance, but I sure can cook. More than one way to meet a mate.
Overheard a conversation a few years back where a group of guys were talking about how they didn't know how to cook or do laundry because that was woman's work and how they expected their mothers and / or wives to do that for them. It was so pathetic how proud they were that they could not take care of themselves.
Weird. Imagine thinking like that. How old were they?
60? 20? Does it matter?
It's an entire culture that hasn't gone away.
My father is 65 and could not cook a Kraft dinner to save his own life. Forget laundry. His son (my brother) believes the same. Whenever he is single his apartment goes uncleaned, he exclusively eats take out, and his clothes are barely laundered.
Laundry (with a washing machine) is significantly easier than cooking (healthy/tasty food) tho. It takes me like 2 minutes combined to load up the machine, start up the cycle, and hang it out to dry; and an hour or so to cook a good meal for two.
Cooking doesn't need to be hard. A crockpot and 5 minutes of prep will give you 6/7 days of pulled pork.
60? 20? Are those numbers? Counting is woman's work, never learnered it!
If I were to guess, I would say early 30s.
Crazy stuff. I can't imagine not being self sufficient, let alone reveling in it.
I always wanted to help my mom with the cooking when we were growing up, but she was such a control freak that she would hardly even allow anyone else into the kitchen. I’m sure plenty of other mothers are like that, too.
Brother?
Even more frustrating, because when she turned 70, she admitted that she never liked cooking anyway, but will still tell us we're doing it wrong.
Frustrating indeed.
But maybe the reason she didn't want you in the kitchen was because she didn't want you (or anyone) to watch her struggling. And the reason she's so critical is that she spent decades criticizing herself in there.
Or maybe not. I don't know your mother.
I do, and you're spot on.
My wife's mother was like that. Then she was confused as to why her daughter couldn't cook (and so had to teach herself after she moved out).
This was my wife. She didn't know how to cook, run a washing machine, run a dishwasher, any normal household task. Absolutely nothing because her mom wouldn't let her in fear she would mess something up.
I had to teach a 26 year old how to do everything to be self-sufficient and simply function day to day.
Everyone better stay out of my kitchen. I'm all for teaching kids to cook. But I don't want amateurs on the field during the Super Sowl of cooking days.
I like Super Sowl. I'm pretty sure it was a typo but please leave it as is. It's got Sowl.
Setting the table would be an easy task that can be taught throughout the year, and that skill can then be employed during your super sowl.
They can set the table before I wake up. But when it's time to cook I need them out.
Or, teach them to cook. Did that for years and now they have their own families and can cook their own meals.
Reread my earlier comment. I'm all for teaching them to cook. The rest of the year.
As a child we always did the girls cook and boys clean method, which isn't as bad as it could be, but still leaves a lot to be desired. Instilled that boys need to be part of the work, but needlessly gender divided the work anyway 😐
I like the “who cooks does not clean” and vice-versa idea. Can just change who does what every so often. Plus it can be a great opportunity to show that you have to consider your impact on other people(don’t create a massive pile of work for them where it can be helped).
That was it for us but realistically it was more A generational thing. Especially after divorces and stuff - all the aunts didn’t cooking, my uncle and my brothers and I did the setup/cleanup.
At one point they tried to get us do the cooking but I’m sorry but I’m flying in late the night before or early the morning of: that’s up to the locals. I can stop at the store to buy wine or something but cooking isn’t a realistic choice
But when we do Thanksgiving locally: if it’s my house I do most of it and my ex brings a couple sides. If it’s her house then vice versa
.... People don't do this?
Plenty of people do this. But it's great engagement bait to pretend otherwise
I know everyone is raised differently, but i find it hard to believe that this is a real problem.
All the uncles on my wives side of the family are so useless at Thanksgiving. They don't cook, clean, clear their plate or even make their own plate. Its one of the most infuriating thing I have ever seen.
Do people not normally involve their kids in this sort of thing equally?
Growing up, no.
Will my potential kids be sharing the work equally? Definitely. I always got into so much trouble for asking why I had to do housework and my brother didn't.
I hadn't realised quite how different the female upbringing experience was to the male one until I talked about it with my partner. Quite different it turns out. We're both about 40, and from Ireland, and she was absolutely expected to do shit like this when the men weren't.
Event today some of her siblings families are heavily heavily sexist.
No kidding. The enforcement is often kind of brutal too. As a couple the house not being clean creates a pervasive sense of judgement that falls on the feminine half of a couple. It doesn't matter if they are a killer breadwinner with an amazing career and winning at life the messaging and conditioning from childhood and enforced by older friends and relatives is still that they are at their core a failure if their house doesn't meet regulation. That judgement is not extended to the masculine partner because he's kind of expected to be a hapless subordinate who maybe helps but is not responsible for it. That old "sorry about the state of the place" is practically just begging for social leniency from deeply ingrained shame.
If your fem partner is neurotic about cleanliness that's basically why. They are made to feel horrible about themselves when company comes calling.
This is so real, I swear to god. I joke about how neurotic I am about housework, and my house is always pristine, but still my worst nightmare is someone stopping by unexpectedly. My house can be spick and span and I'll still apologize for the state of it.
I didn't understand her fixation on these kind of expectations until I really got to know her family and discovered more about her upbringing. I didn't see it initially and if I'm honest, didn't really believe it, but slowly I came round to understanding. If the shoe was on the other foot I'd push back a lot too.
It's not just family and upbringing it's kind of enforced by basically everyone a little bit. House is a mess - oh (fem partner) must be struggling poor dear. The state of the house just sits in a corner of their mind all day everyday like a weight dragging them down like the telltale heart.
Once you see the effect of it you can't really unsee it.
Not in my family. Us women were expected to be the cooks, cleaners, everything. Every family get-together the men would just sit and talk and the boys would go out to play, and the older women would do the cooking, then come make the girls do the dishes.
My sister and I finally called them out on it, and to their credit they did try and make the boys help with the clean-up… although they never did that great of a job, because they’d never been taught how.
https://flashbak.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/battleship.jpg
And how old is that?
My mom involved my brother. I took the opportunity to play video games all day.
“Meme”
In our house Mom was the chef and us boys were the su-chefs. If you want to live under this roof you'd better help with the cooking, serving, cleaning and everything else in the household. That's the best way to learn how to do it all yourself.
I was already rolling meatballs and frying schnitzels when I was in early high school.
Edit: I have been informed that I use Linux too much and that it is sous chef, not su-chef or sudo-chef. Although my mom is the root user.
*sous chef. Sous is French for under. So the person directly under the chef is the sous chef.
Bone Apple Tea
Tomato tomato
Are you sure she wasn't the sudo chef?
For those who are talking about how this didn't happen in your household growing up, please remember you are 1, at best 2 generations removed from full on enforcement of gender roles suppressing things like this, many times physically enforced. So yea, maybe your dad was the one who baked the turkey or did the dishes, but you can be damn sure his dad didn't.
Every male in my family can cook and clean house.
And they cook better than their girlfriends/wives.
So yea, maybe hold your sexism.
Have you considered your family might be the exception and not the rule
I assume the families that need to hear this won’t listen.
You should be doing that all year long. These are not ferral kind. You have a responsability to parent them.
Actually, the rush of the holiday is the time when they should participate slighty less if they are not old enough to do some task independently. Because you must move quick and there is less time for teaching.
I support teaching all kids what it takes to exist, regardless of gender.
I just popped in to say that back in the long ago, in my family, only so much help cleaning up was tolerated from men-folk before they were exiled to football on TV so the women could sit at the kitchen table and talk. Trying to assist in cooking was nearly impossible by anyone who wasn't my grandmother or the aunts that had been cleared for assistance.
I was taught to cook and clean by these same people, but it was clear that at big family meals like Thanksgiving that most of us were in the way if we tried to assist.
I guess what I'm saying is, for sure teach everyone all of it, but big meals might not be the best time. (depending on size of family and a variety of other factors).
At least clear your plate to the sink! :)
Lol, I'm a dude and, I remember when I was a kid, there was sometimes holiday stuff where the adults would make... the um... (okay I had to google it) it's called 湯圓 and I just mess with it while they were making it, I'd make weird shapes out of it lol. I don't think I actually helped, I'm just a troublemaker xD
I only know how to cook basic stuff, I suck at it. I know how to pan-fry eggs, but that's about it. I think I sort of know how to make a very basic 煎餅, from scratch, the mixing flour and egg and stuff, kinda forgot by now... but I have memories of doing it.
I kinda feel embarassed now that I talk about it. I have no life skills. (pls don't judge xD)
It's never too late to learn. Drag doesn't know any Chinese recipes, but bao should be pretty easy, and すひ is fun and simple, but still has technique to making it look nice. Heating up dried pasta and adding sauce is so easy drag already explained the recipe, so it's good for beginners.
My boys are now in their 30s. They always helped with the big family dinners. Even made a couple of them on their own for the rest of us. I do not understand how anyone in my age group, Gen X, could not have raised their sons to be completely independent but somehow, I'm in a minority.
My brother is the best chef in the family. You will always miss out on good food if you don't screen all your kids for chef talent. Gender roles often lead to people not doing things they might be good at.
Considering gender roles, commercial kitchens are primarily and historically male dominated. The idea of the woman always being the cook is extremely antiquated.
My best memories are of helping my mother and grandmother cook Thanksgiving and Christmas meals!
Those sound like lovely memories!
Society being agender-by-default, with gender being opt-in, would solve a lot of problems.
Thing is, biology ain't.
Treating a person's sex as arbitrary is part of the plan
The most common cooking task is cutting stuff which makes me feel pretty manly
Your kids help?
My daughter has been a helper since she was 2. We encouraged it despite the very obvious frustration and now we have a somewhat competent helper years later.
For anyone unaware how frustrating it can be. Watch the Omelette episode of Bluey...
She was expected to do chores as soon as we believed her capable. That included bringing her dirty laundry to the laundry room. Putting dirty clothes away. Cleaning plates before putting in the dishwasher.
You have to teach kids EVERYTHING its exhausting. When I first asked my daughter to put a plate in the kitchen the put it on the floor, just over the threshold of the door. She was about 18mo, and it was not malicious, just following my exact instructions.
Either way I fully support your parenting practice and I do the same <3
Oh man, my wife HATES the omelette episode, it's too real for her. I tend to do better with the kids when we cook together, but it's also down to the projects I pick. Making pasta from scratch is messy, fun, and you can be imprecise. Baking (her specialty) is not so forgiving.
Chores, I think, are easier to teach but harder to enforce.
Oof I feel her pain. Baking with children is rough
I try to do a lot of mise en place before the kids know I am cooking anything. I would put them all the ingredients for all states in pre measured and put into easy to pour containers. Often I'd make 1.5x the dough so I could cut off 1/3 and that's the kids bread - no matter how bad it is - I've still got the rest.
Technology Connections fuming rn
I've seen that video. I did try cleaning the filter and using prewash powder. Still have food stuck on if I don't
Could be because I have plastic cups/plates but with kids I feel I didn't have a choice until they're older
My uncle usually cooks at our family thanksgiving, and it's always really goddamn good
Who doesn't do that? What a weird assumption.
Lots of people. I don't think it's a weird assumption at all.
Edited for typo
This post is basically someone saying "boys and girls are the same!".
It's a truism disguised as some sort of profound realization.
Edit: Sorry, I realized this is probably posted by an American. Other cultures work differently. Easy to forget, most online is American.
Well, the post mentions Thanksgiving, and since it's not October anymore, it's safe to some the OOP is talking about American Thanksgiving, so they are addressing Americans primarily, yes.
However, gender norms are not a uniquely American thing. And it's kind of weird to act like they are.
Also, someone posting some good advice online doesn't need to be a profound realization. Sometimes it's just someone sharing a good idea. You come across in these comments as rather pretentious.
The majority of humanity as this is a global gender norm
Well I guess her post caters to her audience.
In my family, all the men would watch football and get drunk while all the women were in the kitchen cooking the feast.
Even as a young boy I thought that was pretty gross.
My spouse once told me that she hadn't been allowed to play Risk because it was a boy's game. Apparently as a child she had been sent "back to the kitchen" to help with "women's chores" while the menfolk played strategy board games.
I didn't shed a tear when her dad passed. And neither did she.
Would anyone in your family have read this post and changed their ways?
Seems unlikely.
My grandpa and my father in law were never taught how to cook.
My grandpa could make porridge and sandwiches. My father in law can grill, but that’s it. My dad doesn’t even grill.
There are definitely households where cooking is seen as feminine and boys aren’t encouraged.
Thankfully my family is full of excellent cooks and all of my brothers and I love to cook. Some of my favourite memories of holidays were cooking with my mom before Christmas Eve so we didn’t have to cook until Boxing Day. I think the cooking part was better than the eating part, we had a full on hors d’oeuvre assembly line.
Sometimes I forget that I am from a different culture. I'm European. You are likely Americans. Online discourse is dominantly American. So when people say shit sometimes, it makes no sense from my point of view, because we were not raised under whatever conditions you have suffered under.
I'm not bashing Americans. I kind of like Americans to a degree. But you're weird man. Sorry, sometimes it's hard to keep up with your day to day grievances. My bad. Maybe what the post says needs to be said.
I’m Canadian, but there’s a lot of overlap culturally. I have American cousins.
Totally agree this is weird. I don’t think it’s as much of an issue these days but you still have perks who feel a woman’s place is in the kitchen (generally they’re shit people).
My mom’s side is québécois and the culture around these things is much more sensible with them.
I have nothing against division of labor. In my family, my father cooked, and my mother worked (he worked too but mom worked harder and basically made the brunt of the income in our family), and that was expected, accepted, and agreed upon. In any relationship, people have duties that don't overlap, because it's more efficient and functional.
I get that the post is about some sort of passive aggressive general outrage against what I guess is misogyny, but I feel it's just misplaced in this case and a bit self indulgent, like, what she is saying is really "look at me, I made this major cultural discovery, and I would like to both announce it to the world how great I am, as well as admonish those who don't do it".
It's not the message, it's the smugness that gets fucking annoying, because I bet that person does a lot of shit others would consider bad parenting or being straight up immoral, and it irks other people like me.
That was the point.
I don’t have anything against division of labor, that’s totally natural. I don’t like people who believe that cooking is for girls and women only or that mentality.
That's fair. I don't understand it at all as most top chefs in the world are men.
:P
I'm just messing with you, but no, I mean what even is that, men can cook.
My dad never learned to cook, clean, or take care of his own hair/clothes. He had 7 sisters who were all taught that taking care of the boys and the house was their main duty in life. None of those sisters ever touched a hammer or a wrench.
His dad never learned to cook, clean, or take care of himself in any way. He had 4 sisters who were all taught that taking care of the boys and the house was their main duty in life. None of those sisters ever touched a hammer or a wrench.
I have two boys - they were taught to cook and clean and take care of themselves. And once they had that basic stuff down they were taught the hammer and wrench.
My extended family was like this during my childhood
My bad, I presumed that their culture works the same as mine. I guess it's a bigger problem with you guys than with us.
Here is what I would like to say of my experience. Not to snap at this, or provoke a battle-of-the-genders. Just to say what I've experienced.
I'm a recovered germophobe but I still do the cleaning because it's not even work to me, it's just a casual part of my routine. I cook all from fresh and every meal, because I lost like 58kg after getting over my ED. My mother was insanely (abusively) strict when we were just small kids, so we were trained to clean the dishes, put things away, blah blah.
But anyways after sobering up and lots of therapy, the bad parts (the obsessive parts) of all that went away, but doing that stuff had just become an 'easy' part of my life.
But here's the little thing I don't even want to say. Women hate that shit lol. Isn't that awful to say? I'm always taken aback when I'm scolded for doing the things women say guys should do more of ahha
I think at my age it's a lot of the entrenched gender roles biting all sides. Yes, please open up the gates to the domains women historically have controlled. Guys need to shape up in a general sense in these areas, but let us in plz!
I get what you're saying, but the attitudes are luckily changing and the amount of women who frown on men doing housework is rapidly shrinking.
I agree, I'm just trapped in my generation and I hate it
And as much as people can verbalize the "right" things, people don't actually hold those attitudes deep in their hearts and they're not reflected in their actions to the degree we would hope
The number of people assert the way things should be but then don't actually want it is quite shocking to me
I am a stay-at-home dad. The amount of people bewildered by that is bewildering 😅
But my wife gets more shit anyway, because now she's apparently a really bad mother, who provides for her family 😅😅. bUt ThAt'S a MaN's JoB.
Tradition seems hard to kill.
We have division of labor, particularly for big parties like Thanksgiving. I don't want help with cooking but don't want to have to clean up. That's our general division of labor because I legitimately enjoy cooking, and people legitimately love eating what I cook; and husband says he would much rather clean up. His dad is a better cook than his mom, I don't think it's a sexist thing. So sure I have to do more cooking (started yesterday) but he does more too. The kids just do overflow mostly and while all of them are competent in some way in a kitchen, the distribution of good cooks is not a gender split among them.
The technology split is more gendered, all of the boys (including the one who started out a girl) are gamers and can build a computer, 3/4 of the girls are gamers and technically competent but only one is willing to fuck around with the hardware. One, my oldest, is not at all comfortable with technology, does not want to know how anything works. But she worked construction/home renovation and is good with saw and drill.
My extended family operates thanksgiving as a potluck. My uncle hosts, he cooks several of the dishes served, one of my (female) cousins cooks the turkey itself, somehow it became traditional that I (male) carve it though. My father makes a pineapple punch, my mother makes the sweet potatoes, I often bake a pie of some kind.
Cooking, laundry, dishes, those don't seem to be gendered tasks in my family. In all but the bachelor's homes it seems women do the vacuuming, because the women seem to give more of a shit about the state of the floor. For most of my life lawn and leaf jobs were Male with a capital M, though my mother has started helping me rake (I live next door to my parents in what was my grandparents house, we share kind of an extended property) as kind of a reason to exercise, and one of my cousins took over mowing their lawn when my grandfather passed away.
Vehicle maintenance falls to the men as well, only one woman--my navy veteran cousin--would so much as touch anything with engine oil on it. Construction, house repair and basically anything else that involves a saw also tends to fall to the men; my mother refuses to climb ladders, I've never seen one of my cousins holding a hammer, meanwhile my father and I built our wood shop, and roofed my house.
Computers and gaming: A lot of my family games in some way or form. There are some gender stereotypes on display, one of the few games I've seen my aunt play is The Sims. My mother likes adventure and puzzle games, she's currently big into BluePrince. My father tends to be an arcade classics guy. OG gamer, he bought Space Invaders for the Atari 2600 on launch day and he and his best friend stayed up all night playing it. I've gone through phases with fighting games, FPS, simulators, etc. I'm the family computer hardware enthusiast. I think my father could build a PC, but the last time he did so was in the 1970s when he and his friend soldered together an Altair 8800 kit. Everybody else kinda refuses any chance to learn.
Scared to have to mow a massive front grass lawn every week (wasps, bees, etc) on a mower when my FiL becomes incapable to do so.
reject grass
embrace the wild
It's so big, I don't even know where to start with nolawning that lawn
Make your kids do all the work - more like enable them to help with all tasks. Getting to help can be fun. Gender barriers to tasks are stupid.
If you cook, you don't clean. If you clean, you don't cook. Tell them to take their pick.
Cleaning while you cook 🤯
This is the best way
I do this and my wife doesnt. When it takes me an hour to clean after she cooks and 20 minutes after i cook, she seems confused.
Not only am i cleaning everything, she used 3 mixing bowls that you could have just rinsed and used 1, and you left all the spices and ingredients on the counter so i have to put all that away too. Filled the sink with unrinsed dishes and poured filthy water on them to let it sit, so all that hand clean stuff needs extra attention. Spilled and burnt shit all over the stove, etc.
Ive cleaned in restaurants where the cooks werent as messy lol
Living alone, I find this to be a fast way to a messy sink.
There's one mandatory exception to this: the cook should always be the default responsible person to clean pans & pots. Everyone who disagrees has never been on a camp with a bunch of kids who are just learning how to prepare food.
My mom made me do that 40 years ago already. That is a thing, no? Sure, it was Christmas dinner, as we didn't have thanksgiving, but it's the same nonetheless. You do it together as a family
The heck is a thanksgiving?
Ritualized Turkey Murder
Note: Turkey is optional. Mostly because nobody ever does it well. It is always dry and tasteless.
We're doing home made pizzas.
It is fun, and it requires little skill so everyone involved in the cooking process. Even the kids get involved to help.
Best part: Nobody spends all day slaving away in the kitchen not enjoying the holiday.
Wrap it in bacon. It was so moist we didn't need sauce.
Vegans have Thanksgiving.
As a vegan, I hate Thanksgiving. Hate any holiday that requires sitting and eating for more than half an hour, to be honest.
Couldn't there be a holiday where family gathers around the generational foosball table or the antique Wii? Eating is boring.
I mean you can set your own traditions.
Lord knows I did.
That's part of growing up. You realize you have to be the change you want to see.
That is more a symbol of you then being a vegetarian. But thanks for letting us know you're vegetarian. Tell me, do you use Apple or arch?
As a proud vegan, I think I can speak confidently for all vegans when I say Hanna Montana Linux, but I dual boot Temple OS.
Is this you?
https://github.com/Francesco149/templeos-on-bare-metal
Finally, the recognition I deserve.
Ooohhhh I forgot about Hannah Montana Linux. Good choice.
It's what Canada and the USA call their harvest festival. What does your country call it?
Maybe "Herbstfest"? But more of a local thing. "Jahrmarkt" is even more local. Both are some kind of village-wide market events, the first more fall-themed (and grapes because "Weinland" switzerland) with changing locations each year.
Looks like american thanksgiving is how christmas is for us?
We have three eating holidays, Thanksgiving, Christmas, and Easter, and they're all about the same. There's loads of Germans and Dutch up here so people keep a lot of the European traditions, and I'd say you're probably right that Thanksgiving is more like your Christmas.
We dont have one
Are you from another planet? Or a small tribe somewhere in the Pacific?
Every nation on the planet that plants food celebrates harvest.
Wow what a shame. That's super uncommon, only a handful of countries in the world don't have a recognized harvest festival.
They're survival skills that everyone should know.
And have your daughters come to the garage and help replace brakepads on their bikes, install curtain rods, etc... etc...
So grateful to my mom for doing this with me
My son's a little young to help in the kitchen, but my wife can relax and play with him while my mom and I cook =)
Specially young boys if you involve them they will be invested in the entire process! This is great advise!
Maybe I didn't help cook as much but was my job to clean after pretty much every dinner. Always thanked my Mum for the dinner nightly (regardless of my taste preferences). Pretty much set the table for dinners all regular night and cleaned up.
Larger dinners with company she let me stop cleaning after awhile but these days I'd gladly clean till the end, she made the best dinners.
My wife has a bone cyst and her wrist is effectively unusable. Our teenage son volunteered to help me since we're one cook down in the kitchen this year.
Good son
Good parents for raising good son
We're trying.
Ah fuck, I replied to myself
We all make mistakes. It learning from them that is important. :)
He is.
My son cooks
Carving up the turkey is a manly job, just keep those knives sharp
Sharpness doesn’t matter: more power! Break out the electric carving knife
Clarkson!
Laser cutter
my daughter wants to be a chef when she grows up, so i tend to involve her more in cooking and food prep. i do also teach my son how to make food and how to care for himself, obviously, but he doesn't have an interest in anything more advanced than that. my girl though, she's going to have at least one michelin star or i'll eat my hat.
Will she prepare the hat?
Good eats taught me more about cooking than any family member ever did
It's the only cooking show I have ever watched that actually taught the why so I could experiment on my own.
If you're looking for tips.
My sister cant cook for shit and I cook for the family like 3 times a week lol
Nobody likes a lazy MF.
Thanksgiving is for the kids to stay out of the kitchen. I teach cooking on other day. Cleanup is a different story. If you got hand you clean or youll catch hands.
Yep. One of the reasons women do all the housework, is because men where literally not taught how to. It may sound weird that someone can fix a car, paint a fence, but struggles with house chores.
It's due to literally never learning to.
No one taught me how to fix a car or paint a fence, yet I can do both. So can countless others with no such training across literally the entire spectrum of human capability.
People who claim they don't do housework because they 'were never taught how' are just feigning incompetence. I bet the vacuum becomes much less mystifying if I tie a $1000 prize to its successful operation, for example.
Sure but some people don't claim incompetence they are (no jugment here) incompetent. If you tell someone do the laundry but he had no idea it means:
He might put white with colors, delicate with cotton. Add detergent but nothing to prevent color leaking. And select a cycle that too hot, damaging some cloth. He did it. He did his best. But his best is worst that when you are careless because he doesn't know what he is doing. If you would have realized he was not taught to do the laundry, you would have give more explanation or a few smaller tasks.
Sadly my stepdaughter had zero interest in cooking, but her kids (boy and girl) both have an intense interest. I'd like to think that my influence, partly borne from my own mother have zero interest in teaching me how, has helped foster it.
My guess this is a so called “traditional” family, and this woman is trying to bring her family up to date with the 1960s.
Because boys don't turn into chefs, huh.
You don't help cook you don't eat.
My kid is 27, if he wants to make TG dinner, I'll eat it.
Can someone recommend books on this topic? Ty
Don't prove I'm right?
If it were up to me we would be having take and bake pizza, if other people want something else other people can cook it.
Let me...
Let me...
Let me...
No way. Those idiots suck at everything
White culture is living in a concentrated period of open fascism, and having conversations with your friends about teaching men to do the dishes
My boy has grown to 80lbs now and I assure you I've never been in the kitchen without him.
He gives me the best dookies on our walkies. I bag 'em up.
I dunno... Did women kill the Indians to take this land?
really proud of famously sought after and eligible playboys such as reddit and lemmy users coming together to really identify as societies peak. You guys clean at Christmas and challenge gender roles. Fucking peak. So weird that so many of you are struggling in the dating scene while those slob adult men seem to constantly be getting married. What gives?
I remember a T-day in the mid 80s. My older sister had an absolute meltdown because I wouldn't help clean up.
Awww, too bad, so sad... Eat shit, Vicki.
Also consider beating your children with a pair of jumper cables, not out of anger, or the need to discipline them, but for the sheer joy of hitting a living human being with jumper canles.
Edit: my parents beat me with jumper cables all the time and it embiggened my cromulence. It's good for you. Like milk. Or calt. Or shumming.
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Owh hellll no, I'm not helping with cleaning up 😜
As an introvert who struggles with social stuff at festivities, fuck that.
This has nowt to do with social stuff
As an introvert myself it's easy to hide in a kitchen and express myself through my creations instead of actually talking to people.
Peeling and chopping doesn't have to be done in the same room. In fact, if you take those onions outside everyone will be grateful, and unlikely to come pester you.
instructions unclear.. sitting outside cutting onions by myself and crying
No, sounds like you followed the instructions perfectly. (Edit: stand upwind for less onion discomfort. No one will notice you're really crying about everything.)
So put on / in your headphones and start on those dishes.