Yeah. Few times a week I go to mine to chat with all the locals over two or three beers then head home. It's a nice way to wind down, be out, and socialise at a really low intensity. No organising is needed, just arrive and there'll be someone there you know.
That was kind of the point of pubs (public house). A place for the community to meet up in any weather and have a good time together whether games, sharing stories, or having a meal. The smaller the town, the friendlier and more tight the patrons are too. Also great places to frequent when travelling, meeting new locals, getting great travel advice, making friends for the few days you're there.
Yep, been a while since worked at a place like that, but there was definitely a crowed that would be there most days. This was mid 2000’s. Partly dried up when smoking indoors was banned, I think that was the last straw for a big part of the culture that was already drying up.
I live a block away from my local bar. Go multiple times a week to play pool. There's a lot of regulars so it's like hanging out with friends/neighbors.
Even with NA (low/non-alcoholic) beverages, it'd be nice to have third places that don't come with an obligation to spend money.
To be clear, I'm not asking for places that ban spending money, but there are third places like parks (eg NYC Central Park) that are destinations in their own right, but one can also spend money there, such as buying stuff and having a picnic on the grass, or bringing board games and meeting up with friends. Or strolling the grounds astride rental e-bikes. Or free yoga.
Where there's an open space, people make use of it. But we don't really have much of that in the USA, that isn't tied up as a parking lot, an open-space preserve (where people shouldn't tred upon to protect wildlife), or are beyond reasonable distances (eg BLM land in the middle of Nevada).
Also, in places with significant winters (including Northern Europe) parks aren't an option in winter.
Northern Europe seems like the kind of place that would realize this is a problem and invent some kind of community building which was open in the winter and had a shared kitchen, a stock of board games, a court for indoor sports, etc. That's certainly not going to happen in the US.
In Northern Europe, that's called a library.
The one in Helsinki has board games, media stations for watching films or listening to music, gaming consoles, PCs with design and CAD software, VR rooms, 3D printers and other fabrication machines, conference rooms, study rooms, workshops for fixing things, recording and photo studios, a shared kitchen, a cinema, a playground...
Wow. My local library mostly has books. No board games. No media stations -- there are some (old) computers you can use to browse the web, so I suppose you could watch media there, but it's set up as a desk, not a couch or something. You can borrow some games, but not game consoles, and there's definitely not a spot to play the games on-site. Definitely no VR rooms. There's one branch of the library in the city that has 3d printers. One branch that has a "music editing station" with a music keyboard attached to a computer. One branch has a high quality, large format scanner for scanning historic docs. Definitely no kitchen or playground.
The idea still seems to be that libraries are supposed to be quiet places where you can read books or study. Any media is meant to be consumed with headphones on, so obviously no shared listening of any kind. They do loan music, video games and movies, but they're meant to be brought home. You can borrow a lot of musical instruments, but again, there's no place to play them on-site because the library is a quiet place for reading or studying.
I think it would take a major mental shift for people here to consider libraries as places where you might do something non-quiet, and/or non-serious. And something like cooking on-site would be seen as completely non-librarylike.
Everywhere I've lived in the US has had plenty of public parks. As a teenager I'd hang out with my friends in them. Hell I've been to big community picnics at a park.
The thing is it's easier to hang out online all the time and people aren't looking to socialize at parks when there aren't events.
I'd say the qualities of the average American park leaves much to be desired, when compared to NYC Central Park, San Diego's Balboa Park, or SF's Presidio.
In suburban areas, the municipal park tends to be a monoculture of grass plus maybe a playground, a parking lot, and if lucky, a usable bathroom. Regional parks are often nicer, with amenities like pickleball courts or a BMX park, though asking for benches (not rocks or concrete verges, but actually bench seats) and shade might be a stretch.
My point is that the USA has fewer parks and public squares than it ought to. I don't mean just a place to go jogging or to push a stroller along, but a proper third space where people actively spend time and create value at. Where street vendors congregate because that's also where people congregate. A place that people -- voluntarily, not by necessity, eg a train station but not to catch a train -- would like to be. A destination in its own right, where even tourists will drop by and take in the air, the sights, and the social interactions.
Meanwhile, some parts of the USA actively sabotage their parks, replacing normal park furniture with versions that are actively hostile to homeless people, while alienating anyone that just wants an armrest as they sit down. Other municipalities spend their Parks & Rec funds on the bare minimum of parks, lots that are impractically tiny. Why? Because a public park can be used to exclude registered sex offenders from a neighborhood, leading to the ludicrous situation where whole cities are an exclusion zone. Regardless of one's position on how to punish sex offenses, the denial of housing and basic existence is, at best, counterproductive.
So I reiterate: the USA might have a good quantity of parks, but not exactly good quality of parks. People will socialize online unless they are given actual options to socialize elsewhere. And IRL options would build value locally, whereas online communities only accrue to the benefit of the platforms (eg Facebook, WhatsApp) they run on.
Are you talking more indoors as there are a lot of outdoor stuff but only the library and churches are indoor stuff I can think of and in the one case you need to keep quiet so not great for socializing and in the other you have to follow wierd precepts or whatnot.
Depending on the community near you, Unitarian Universalists sometimes have basically that. I’ve been an atheist since I was four, but I have no problem with other people being religious and it was perfect for me. If you’re the type to be annoyed by people talking about the universe in a way that suggests the supernatural, you might not want to deal with even the UU’s very mild language. When I went as a kid, we learned about volcanoes in Sunday School, as a gauge for how religious they are.
Or if you want evil church without religion, can I interest you in crossfit?
I jokingly asked my wife if she'd go to basically church but reading from Marx instead and despite neither of us being marxists it actually sounded like something we'd go to
But also seriously look into if you have a local community center or library and what events they host. Stuff like that often struggles to find attendees
I do think there's a special thing about church that is this bigger than yourself experience that you share with your community that just isn't quite replicated in events like art clubs or whatever, volunteering is probably closer
It's the fact that church comes with an actual presupposition that it isn't optional, while de facto being optional.
Going to church (in contexts where denomination shopping isn't a thing at least) means going to a place where a person is not there to validate your particular perspective but instead often to tell you and everyone else in the group to do better, publicly, not because they're better but because they appeal to higher principles whose correctness is taken for granted buly the congregation.
See also: the absolute brain lottery winners on the internet bitching that the pope isn't a real catholic for telling them they're bad catholics (arguably bad christians in general, definitely bad people) for dehumanising poor people and immigrants legal and illegal.
I'm far from a catholic (that is, I'm actually a lapsed catholic if you ask the church, but I was never a believer, just born into it) but there just isn't a space where you're going to participate, respect the ethics and morals, still fall short of them, be chastised, and be forgiven, that doesn't involve some religious aspect.
I do think there's a special thing about church that is this bigger than yourself experience
I'm pretty sure that's only the case if you're a believer. And, in general, people who aren't believers don't go to church, so you're selecting for a group of people who want to believe in something bigger than themselves.
It's just an example- I'm not saying it's the only alternative. Although the declining church attendance possibly causes people to seek third places (although I believe the declining church attendance is that it's more socially acceptable to be a non believer these days. Would rather if someone come to Church that they'd be at least open to believing)
Even if you find one where there isn't an emphasis on tithes or donation, that's not exactly a space set up for public socializing. It's a private space, used by a dedicated and defined group, for socializing within that group. Outsiders may be welcome, but they're only welcome within that structure.
Depends, lots of churches welcome lay members of the community to the ancillary activities they organise. Catholic churches in my experience are much more embedded in their communities in southern europe regardless of the status of the people participating.
My father has been lapsed for 40+ years, never shows up for church and doesn't participate in any of the religious aspects but he still runs free arts and crafts workshops in the parish buildings, for the local kids whether they're part of the congregation or not.
Depending on the gym, some are a lot more third-spacey than others. I've been to a smaller gym where people just hang around after their workouts to socialize, with occasional impromptu dinner outings when the gym closed for the night. I miss that place. You still meet people at bigger commercial gyms, but it's not the same.
On the reals, I have an atheist friend who started volunteering at a church literally for this reason. I totally understood where he was coming from. If I didn’t have a family and wanted a way to spend time with other people, I’d probably do the same.
Yes, my dad was one of them. I haven't gone to a bar for years but it used to be most smaller bars had at least a few regulars that basically lived there. I remember one old vet that used to show up every day as soon as the bar would open for his daily fix... It got to the point the bar refused to serve him, so he would try and get unsuspecting customers to buy them for him. (This was in the 70's and 80's, there were (or at least seemed to be) a lot more alcoholics back then.)
Also booze used to be a LOT cheaper, so it wasn't nearly as expensive as it would be now.
I remember stories from my dad about a guy he knew where the bar maid would have to help him with the first drink in the morning because his hands would shake so much.
The romantic history of the happy drunk is almost entirely fictional. I say almost because I know a few people who are able to take it or leave it, but for the most part the people I know/knew who were drinking either in bunches or daily end up complete and unabridged alcoholics, whether they are active and in serious trouble or have sought help and straightened up, but cannot touch it.
I'm one of the rare happy drunks. Don't drink often, I'm an extremely quiet person usually. But get a few beers in me and my wife says I won't shut up but she also says it's the only time she gets to talk to me. I don't know why, I can't hold a conversation when I'm sober. Never know what to talk about, my work life is boring so nothing interesting ever happens.
When I have a few, it's likeeverything just starts coming out.
I've never been a big drinker but I have a few places around me where beer is $3. And the actual place my wife and I go if we do feel like drinking is our local VFW. I can get a 24 oz frosty on tap for like 2.50. and a jack and coke for 3. Last time we went out drinking spent like $30 total and we were both drunk
I remember one old vet that used to show up every day as soon as the bar would open for his daily fix... It got to the point the bar refused to serve him
So he’d go to this bar during business hours to drink. And this went on to the point where they stopped serving him? Something is missing from the middle of this story…
Sorry If I didn't explain that right.. the guy was drinking non-stop every single day, to the point you could physically see his liver was shutting down because of his yellowish color. So the bar didn't have much choice and had to cut him off. He was an awesome old guy so no-one wanted to boot him, but if he drinks himself to death the bar would be potentially liable for still serving him so they chose to stop.
Yes, but bear in mind a lot of factory, construction, and industrial jobs are 7-3 or 8-4. So a working class laborer could go catch a happy hour with the coworkers or neighbors and be home by 5.
Also in the age of single income households men were often not expected to pull as much weight at home.
You guys are only working 8hrs? What a life to have. The company I use to work for extended their store hours in 6pm so 8-6 was typical with no overtime pay. Woww saying this out loud really makes me want to unionize.
In case you want real data rather than personal biases, the average us employee works fewer hours than the average new Zealander (or +62hr/yr ~1 hr/week if you use the oecd data). In neither dataset is the US at the top. New Zealand, Australia, and the US are all wayyy above the German/french crowd, though.
Even if the germans are taking two months off they're still only working 6 hr/day, which explains their pay (american engineers seem to follow the pattern of 1-it sucks here->2-what about europe->3-actually, I will accept getting 3x pay for more work).
Did this (Mon-Sat) together with a few friends and colleagues in my late 20s. We were regulars to the point of the cook always making something off menu more fitting for regular dinner, as well as no need to settle the bill every night. Once a month everything was tallied up.
Good times. Had to stop though since I found myself going through the fridge on a Sunday once looking for some alcohol.
edit: This was the tail end of the 90s btw, small town in Sweden
Had to stop though since I found myself going through the fridge on a Sunday once looking for some alcohol.
I had a similar experience except I'd open the fridge before work and instinctively grab a beer or start to grab one before I realized I was just there for creamer.
I live in a tiny NE college town where that happens but for breakfast at a dive coffeeshop. It's loud, packed, the food and coffee are meh, but every single day I can walk in there and see 5-10 locals eating breakfast and shooting the breeze. There's cliques who always sit together, and social butterflies who pick a different group every morning. A bottomless mug of coffee is $3, so folks will just come and hang out from like 8-11am. It's great fun.
There's a brewery next door that's often busy at night but generally it's a quiet town so folks are home chilling after dinner.
It used to be a place for the working stiffs to gather and was priced accordingly. Nowadays capitalization has been overused to the point where a lot of businesses are pricing themselves out of customers.
An average draft goes for $7-11 dollars in my city. And the $11 drafts are served in a smaller chalice than the cheaper stuff. I usually buy a 12 pack of beer for $24 from the store and get drunk at home when I can afford it.
My uncle was a factory worker and a daily regular at his favorite local bar for more than 30 years.
My mom wouldn't allow me to go inside the bar (because drinking alcohol is a sin, you know). But in the '80s and '90s, before cell phones, I knew exactly where to find him after school if I needed anything.
Unfortunately, 30+ years of excessive drinking caused a lot of really serious health problems that caught up to him when he was in his 50s. The owners and staff sent a huge flower arrangement and all came to his funeral.
Yeah, I used to finish work, walk down to my local pub, have dinner and a few drinks then go home to bed, good meals, good people to talk to, I kinda miss it but I don't drink anymore.
I’m an outlier because I live in a walkable neighborhood in a city. But I have 10 breweries within walking distance around my house. I know the owners by name for 2 of these breweries and the bartenders know me for 4 of them. I think they all know my dog.
I usually go with my wife and/or girlfriend about 2-4 days a week, but it’s still very much a hang out.
We’re also Friday regulars to a semi-close bar every Friday because I won a free beer/week for a year in a $25 raffle!
Ok, sorry. I just wanted to post that finally. Also, I was remembering that one clip that always gets put in compilations about that guy and his wife and her bf. Anyway, carry on.
Being polyam in Seattle is great. All of my coworkers know I’m poly and just accept it. All the bartenders know too. Makes it easy for them to start the tab.
Tech jobs in Seattle go crazy! We make ends meet since we all have some kinda job. Not too crazy since we’re still renting. But eventually we want to be permanent in. Seattle!
If they all have jobs, they can split fixed costs liking housing or a shared car across 3 people instead of 2. Or more - the OC only mentioned a wide and gf, but there could be more people in the polycule.
I watched a documentary about "bar culture" in the 60es and 70es where i live. Shit was pretty wild. Dudes talked about going to the bar like people talk about video games these days. "Oh yeah, on a good week i'm here 40 to 48 hours" what doesn your wife think about it? "She's not excited, but you know..."
I saw an old video about when they made it illegal to drink and drive and dudes are like “they’re taking away my freedom! It’s my business if I wanna go to the bar and grab a couple beers after work before heading home! Im not hurting anyone!” It’s crazy how casual getting nightly drunk and driving home was in those days
I don't think it's crazy at all. The US in particular still has basically no real mass transit and bars everywhere. Everyone knows there is still drinking and driving going on. Certainly not all those people are calling ubers.
Im sure there are plenty of towns in rural America that still follow the “boys will be boys/go home and sleep it off” mentality with drunk driving and good ole boy crime in general
My dad's friends often claim that's what destroys restaurants. You can't even go and get hammered and drive home.
Yeah, not drinking would be pure insanity, i could never. Imagine spending time with friends sober.
It is kinda crazy how different the times were. In the same documentary, they also touched on immigrants and how they also like to hang out in bars. One guy casually said something like: well i some people don't hate these Spaniards, and some people just want them dead.
Not drinking is not easy, especially that age. I stpped drinking when i was almost 30. I thought that's just a thing that you're not doing, no big deal. A lot of people find it VERY weird. You wouldn't believe the conversations i had especially with drunk people. "You don't drink? Like never?" "Never ever?" "But how?"
I had to literally explain to people what i do instead of drinking and how to order a water in a bar. Ot that a glass of wine is also alcoholic, that i know i can drink a beer and still drive, that one glass is okay, that i don't care how "good" it is, that i don't drink even if you don't even taste the alcohol. It never ends. And just like religion, you can't just say because it's dumb and you're kinda proof of it right now.
Some of the older old dudes I've worked with used to. I actually convinced one of the avocado toast whiners he was wrong based on bar cost now and back in his day
any area with bars has a cheaper bar usually, my main college bar was hella cheap, always had a deal everyday, most nearby bars had deals once a week or specials for locally brewed stuff that was a lot cheaper than buying it elsewhere. I could black out easily off 50$ vs sf which is like 2 one shot drinks maybe for that amount
Man, I have no fucking idea. I can't afford to rent my own apartment without roommates to help, and I have worked with dudes that made $3/hour less than me who owned sizeable middle-class houses somehow. 😬
Or maybe I'm just introverted. Kind offensive to assume that I'm depressed just because I prefer drinking alone. I mean I am depressed, but not due to a lack of socialization. Drinking is a lot more enjoyable in a peaceful environment, away from loud music, obnoxious drunks, and potential police interactions.
I was just speaking from what I've observed in others' behavior. I literally have never had alcohol in my life, nor do I ever "go out," especially not to bars. None of that appeals to me.
I turned legal drinking age this year and alcoholic drinks at bars and events is so expensive. $8-$14 for anything that isn't beer. Not enough to get a buzz for more than 10 minutes. Back to mocktails for me. I also am extremely socially awkward and don't know how to order so maybe that's got something to do with it
That's what the booze is supposed to help with. Whether or not it does is up for debate but it certainly makes you worry less and that's a huge part of awkwardness.
Anyone who thinks alcohol "fixes problems" is probably not a serious person. I don't think I've ever heard of someone who truly believes that. It's kind of an absurd notion. Unless you're being extremely pedantic, the problem is "getting money", and you're working at a brewery or tending bar, etc.
Alcohol is, however, an inextricable part of the human experience throughout the world. I literally can't think of a culture for whom some form of fermented grain/fruit/sugar wasn't a significant element in their cultural development at some point in history.
Many Native American cultures did not know about alcohol before it was introduced by Europeans, same in Australia and New Zealand. The many deleterious effects of colonization are certainly "a significant element in their cultural development" but maybe not in the way you intended.
People who drink do indeed report that in the height of inebriation, everything in their lives feels quite good & well. Then they report the hell of the hangover the next day, and the craving for more alcohol so they can feel good again. A perpetual cycle of drunkenness that eventually affects career & family & finances & domicile stability.
Alcohol is, however, an inextricable part of the human experience
I've never had alcohol in my life. Poisoning oneself does not need to be normalized.
I wouldn't necessarily say it fixes problems and if it does it certainly isn't free of cost in more than one way. I do think it can temporarily lessen some anxieties that one might view as obstacles to happiness because they impede one's ability to engage in meaningful social interaction. I also think that making friends and finding romantic partners are learned behaviors that you need practice to get good at. If alcohol can help you be social enough to make friends in a new place or find a partner then I can see why someone would say it fixed a problem for them. It's certainly more expedient and cost effective than therapy to get past your hangups would be.
That said, that sort of "responsible" use of alcohol isn't without its drawbacks and risks. I don't know how common it is either. Perhaps that's just what people who like to drink tell themselves to avoid feeling shame about their behavior.
Very cutesy reply. I see you looking down on people who choose to drink elsewhere in this thread. I don't know if you think alcoholism is funny, or depression is funny, or if you're just running your mouth about things you don't understand, but you're being a bit silly.
My dad was an alcoholic. And I'm well-acquainted with depression. None of this is funny. And I think people who put poison into their bodies are idiots. That shouldn't even be an opinion. People who put poison into their bodies are idiots. Period. They're hurting themselves and everyone & everything around them. Just so they can drink something that makes them feel good for a minute.
I even dated a high-functioning alcoholic for 6 years. Same story. Alcohol was more important to him than anyone or anything else in the world no matter how hard he pretended otherwise.
When I say I'm thirsty it means I literally need water. When he said he was thirsty, he meant he needed alcohol. He looked at me like I had three heads when I drank water. He couldn't even imagine drinking water.
Regarding putting poisons into our bodies, generally a bad idea unless it's chemotherapy or something prescribed by a doctor who knows the benefits outweigh the risks etc.
Yes, even in countries like Austria.
Saddest thing was that many men that were 'great pals' while drinking
turned into abusers when coming home, making their families co-dependents and their lives hell.
Pub culture is definitely a thing in the UK though and I wish we had some of these neighborhood meeting places in the US too. They aren't necessarily a place to get shitfaced but to get a simple meal and a beer.
Fraternal/Sororal organizations used to be a big thing up to the 60s with the Elks clubs, Odd Fellows, Shriners, etc. We've lost a lot of that community glue.
I was raised in a bar.
My mother owned it for 40 years.
Yes, same customers every day.
They were all alcoholist but some of them stopped functioning. My mother Fed them, did their taxes, cut their hair. It's terrible and sad.
The functioning alcoholists had a family to turn home to.
I used to be an alcoholist until 10 years ago. My wife had to make me realise that drinking every day, even just one beer a day, is alcoholism.
Yeah I wasn't sure if maybe it was a term they used in another part of the world, or if maybe it meant one who partakes in the use of alcohol but maybe isn't an addict. It seems like it is a synonym like you are saying.
I worked in a bar for a few years and I saw the same people everyday. They would even come in on holidays if the bar was open. Some of them would blow their whole paycheck, I always thought it was kinda sad.
I had the same experience and did feel badly for them as well. For a lot of them (especially middle aged men in my experience), they just seemed very lonely. I miss a lot of those regulars, they were generally good people.
In the show Clarkson's Farm, Jeremy Clarkson is looking around, trying to buy a pub. At one point they talk about wanting to have a pub with a little grocery store attached. Clarkson's girlfriend explained why that was common at one point in Ireland. It was because in the past men would get paid, go immediately to the pub, and drink until their paycheck was gone. If there was a shop attached to the pub, they could hand in an order at the shop before they started drinking. And then, even if they drank away the rest of their paycheck, they'd still be handed a bag of groceries before they were kicked out and had to stumble home.
I've been alcohol free since 7th April 2023 but it's a stop on the way home to see mates that don't game online.
UK pub that's part of the community. We organise canal cleans / litter picks / quiz nights / charity events etc..
Pubs can be good and you don't HAVE to drink booze. Bars now..... They are a different story I feel.
On a side note I feel the ability to 'legally' drink (without a meal) from the age of 18 stops a lot of the idiotic drinking stuff I always hear about from over the pond.
I live in England, but maybe twenty years ago I'd go to my regular pub most days, have a couple of pints and maybe some food, socialise with people I'd got to know there.
Obviously that doesn't happen anymore, it's way too expensive now. Going to the pub or out for a meal is a rare treat these days.
For référence, there is an ancient in my village of 300 inhabitants that isbsaying that in the 60's, there were SIX bars in the village. For 300 inhabitants.
So I guess so.
Also for reference we only have a bread machine now, no shops of any kind.
There's a reason prohibition happened. Alcohol consumption back then was 3x higher than it is now, so it was not uncommon for men to get off work, go blow their paychecks at the bar, then go home and beat their wives.
Yes. In my fathers time men would go there often for lunch and after work. I think some went home and then went over for an hour or two. Later it was still common but someone who did it all the time would be called a barfly but almost everyone did like friday night and pretty often thursday or saturday. Its diminished since and more and more bars have to sorta be restaurants or dance clubs or band venues.
I think the men were called “loadies”, getting loaded (drunk) before going home. Women got the much less forgiving name of being a “barfly.” However, that may have just been regional and/or for that era.
Yes, and in some places especially small towns, it is for some people, since it's the main hangout spot (3rd place) in town.
Though I don't think young people do that as much, "regulars" tend to mean 1-3 times a week. My university had a bar that had a "ritual" where Friday afternoons it would be a completely full house.
A lot of bars would have tons of cash on Fridays and bartenders would cash paychecks. Customers would pay off the tab and start a new one. Idk how common it is anymore. Most jobs I’ve had for a while will give a paper check if they have to, but discourage it as much as possible.
If I could afford it I would. Better than going home and sitting on my ass playing video games or whatever. Bars around here are too expensive though (just like everything else). I could drink for a month at home on what I spend for 1 trip to the bar.
I walk by some neighborhood bars, that are cheap and still some people go everyday like the Simpsons.
Videogames are better. I've come to recognize some of the "local drunks" that are there every day, they do be like Barney from the Simpsons. It seems a little depressing looking at them destroying themselves with booze.
They certainly can be. Plenty of online games center around socializing. It might not be enough for those who need daily physical contact but it is far from an anti-social hobby.
The scope of the socialization is extremely limited though. It's centered around the game and unlikely to grow beyond that into a real relationship. It's not like you can ask your internet friends who live hundreds of miles away to come help you move a couch or come to a barbecue or whatever. You don't develop typically connections with your local community.
Admittedly playing WOW back in the day helped me a lot with getting over the social anxiety issues I have and learn to be a more functional adult. I'm not sure that would have happened had I not met the people I did in that game. But none of those friendships went beyond playing the game.
You aren't wrong but you're making this sound like a universal good. I don't particularly want to go bond with the local bbq guy who seems nice enough other than the little blue lives matter bumper sticker on his raised pickup truck. Sure he has truck nuts but it's human contact.
The moving a couch example is kinda cringe so Im skipping.
Those were just examples. There's thousands of reasons why having friends locally is valuable. Especially if you're in USA with the way things are going. I'm really not sure what you even think the downsides are... If it's the drinking aspect, you're not required to drink at a bar, nobody really cares if you have something non-alcoholic instead.
I've had online friends I met in games who I've remained in contact with for many years well outside of the original game. Some of them I've met in real life as well. I've also run into many other 'friend groups' who hang out in their favorite chat app and jump around between games or other hobbies for whatever fits their mood. It seems common enough to me that it shouldn't be that rare or difficult for anyone willing to put some effort and trust towards it.
I mean I'm open to suggestions, I'd like to form more connections with people, but I never had relationships from games transition into anything else. Everyone I've met through gaming has always been hundreds of miles away or in other countries so it's not like we could meet up to do shit on the weekends.
Sure but the social aspect in games is often pretty toxic.
I played quite a lot of Dota 2 and while communication and cooperation greatly improve your chances of winning... More often then not it was just someone raging hard over minor mistakes.
Deep Rock Galactic and especially Helldivers 2 gave me the most positive interactions with random strangers despite lack of dedicated social hubs or lobbies.
Dota is not casual at all, it's quite competitive. It's the reason the communication is so toxic.
Couch co-op games are very nice but in my personal experience friends don't make a habit of gathering to play them. It's a infrequent ocasion, online gaming is much much easier. Boardgames are a cooler experience if you're gonna have people frequently at your place.
Absolutely, just as you can wander into the wrong bar and end up in a fight.
Competitive games will definitely bring out the worst in some people though, but there's plenty of co-operative and role-play games that can lead to good lasting friendships.
These neighborhood bars in Boston were real. I had a GF who worked in a university lab where they would go to a bar after hours and she would bring me along. It was an old school Irish bar (even had pics of Sinn Féin members on the walls). I kept going after we broke up and ended up dating one of the woman who bartended. She would pass me free drinks. I was always a light drinker though, I just nursed them. This was mostly in my 20s. I did visit another Irish pub after night class in a different part of the city and the guy working there remembered what my usual meal order was. lol
Europeans are pretty active on this mater. I'm always amaze by how much people go to bistro bin France and Belgium. I think this applies to pub in England too. In Quebec, I think it was morr common in the 60, 70 and earlier and fade away with the importance TV and later the Internet took in people's home. Now when I go back to some small cities that use to have pretty active downtowns in the late 90s and 200Os, it's absolutely dead. The only bars that survive have a crowd of people in their 40s and more. It use be full of young people, but now I guess they just "flix and chill'...
I don't know if you're aware, but pubs have been around for literally thousands of years. Google tells me that "The oldest known pub in England is a contested title, but The Old Ferry Boat Inn in Cambridgeshire is often cited, with claims of serving drinks since (560) AD. "
I'm sure there were a lot of alcoholics to frequent the place over the past 1500 years or so, but I'm willing to bet that there were a lot of other people who just wanted a meal and a good conversation most days.
At the same time?!? Were the bars across the street from each other and you had two different friend groups in both, so you had to make up excuses, change your outfit, and run over to the other bar all night?! That sounds like an exciting time!
Oh, these were separate events. One full season of All Stars was hosted at a regular bar by professional organizers from the community (downtime between Prides, amirite) and there were special events at the gay bar for the season finale and our local version, La Más Draga.
I used to, up until the last couple years, when I stopped bartending. I still get most of my drinks for free though! And i still have a couple different groups of friends im all but gauranteed to find one of to hand out with.
I worked in a couple of pubs in england back in the 90s and there were definitely regulars that would come in every weekend night and quite often, some week nights.
When I was in my 20s I frequented a local bar a few times a week and always thought it'd be cool if the bartender would just know what my usual drink was. Turns out that was not a great idea.
Walked into a bar/club one night and it was packed because some biker event. They had multiple bars but I usually went to an outside one upstairs because I could smoke outside, you know double down on being unhealthy. The bartender somehow saw me and my spouse walk in, ran out from behind the bar and grabbed two chairs stashed in a corner so they were out of the way of people dancing and asked people to slide over and put those chairs in at the bar so we could sit down. Everyone around the area had this look like the queen of fucking England just walked in and Ill never forget it. That's the kind of customer service that will make sure you come back. The guy knew that business was seasonal, but if you treat your locals well when it gets busy like that, they'll be the ones who are there when it's slow season and he'd still have a few customers.
me and my friends used to be regulars in a shitty pub where there was a group of older people who would be in there all day every day.
he was probably double my age but it didn't stop him coming over to our table and pestering me and some of the other women.
we didn't go in too frequently but the staff recognised us as regulars. we had to stop because some nasty people would come in on a specific day and one of our group wqs afraid of running into them.
Not every night but twice a week I got social pressure to go to the bar to drink. I hated it because those were eight perfect hours that could be used for playing with my PC 🤓
Nowadays I couldn't afford it anymore even if before I was a broke student and now I have a job
Still is common, most bars have their regulars
Yeah. Few times a week I go to mine to chat with all the locals over two or three beers then head home. It's a nice way to wind down, be out, and socialise at a really low intensity. No organising is needed, just arrive and there'll be someone there you know.
That was kind of the point of pubs (public house). A place for the community to meet up in any weather and have a good time together whether games, sharing stories, or having a meal. The smaller the town, the friendlier and more tight the patrons are too. Also great places to frequent when travelling, meeting new locals, getting great travel advice, making friends for the few days you're there.
Yep, been a while since worked at a place like that, but there was definitely a crowed that would be there most days. This was mid 2000’s. Partly dried up when smoking indoors was banned, I think that was the last straw for a big part of the culture that was already drying up.
I live a block away from my local bar. Go multiple times a week to play pool. There's a lot of regulars so it's like hanging out with friends/neighbors.
Idk how common it was but it's a good example of a "third place". A spot that isn't work or home where you can meet and socialize
I wish we could have third places that don’t involve fucking up your body.
Even with NA (low/non-alcoholic) beverages, it'd be nice to have third places that don't come with an obligation to spend money.
To be clear, I'm not asking for places that ban spending money, but there are third places like parks (eg NYC Central Park) that are destinations in their own right, but one can also spend money there, such as buying stuff and having a picnic on the grass, or bringing board games and meeting up with friends. Or strolling the grounds astride rental e-bikes. Or free yoga.
Where there's an open space, people make use of it. But we don't really have much of that in the USA, that isn't tied up as a parking lot, an open-space preserve (where people shouldn't tred upon to protect wildlife), or are beyond reasonable distances (eg BLM land in the middle of Nevada).
Parks and libraries are really nice. Most other third places seem to want you to spend money, that's my experience here in northern Europe anyway.
Also, in places with significant winters (including Northern Europe) parks aren't an option in winter.
Northern Europe seems like the kind of place that would realize this is a problem and invent some kind of community building which was open in the winter and had a shared kitchen, a stock of board games, a court for indoor sports, etc. That's certainly not going to happen in the US.
You mean like the YMCA?
Well, definitely not a Christian association.
Nothing religious about the Y anymore. For many years
In Northern Europe, that's called a library.
The one in Helsinki has board games, media stations for watching films or listening to music, gaming consoles, PCs with design and CAD software, VR rooms, 3D printers and other fabrication machines, conference rooms, study rooms, workshops for fixing things, recording and photo studios, a shared kitchen, a cinema, a playground...
Oh, and books.
Wow. My local library mostly has books. No board games. No media stations -- there are some (old) computers you can use to browse the web, so I suppose you could watch media there, but it's set up as a desk, not a couch or something. You can borrow some games, but not game consoles, and there's definitely not a spot to play the games on-site. Definitely no VR rooms. There's one branch of the library in the city that has 3d printers. One branch that has a "music editing station" with a music keyboard attached to a computer. One branch has a high quality, large format scanner for scanning historic docs. Definitely no kitchen or playground.
The idea still seems to be that libraries are supposed to be quiet places where you can read books or study. Any media is meant to be consumed with headphones on, so obviously no shared listening of any kind. They do loan music, video games and movies, but they're meant to be brought home. You can borrow a lot of musical instruments, but again, there's no place to play them on-site because the library is a quiet place for reading or studying.
I think it would take a major mental shift for people here to consider libraries as places where you might do something non-quiet, and/or non-serious. And something like cooking on-site would be seen as completely non-librarylike.
The one in Helsinki is separated into 3 floors, 1 of them is for quiet reading.
Everywhere I've lived in the US has had plenty of public parks. As a teenager I'd hang out with my friends in them. Hell I've been to big community picnics at a park.
The thing is it's easier to hang out online all the time and people aren't looking to socialize at parks when there aren't events.
I'd say the qualities of the average American park leaves much to be desired, when compared to NYC Central Park, San Diego's Balboa Park, or SF's Presidio.
In suburban areas, the municipal park tends to be a monoculture of grass plus maybe a playground, a parking lot, and if lucky, a usable bathroom. Regional parks are often nicer, with amenities like pickleball courts or a BMX park, though asking for benches (not rocks or concrete verges, but actually bench seats) and shade might be a stretch.
My point is that the USA has fewer parks and public squares than it ought to. I don't mean just a place to go jogging or to push a stroller along, but a proper third space where people actively spend time and create value at. Where street vendors congregate because that's also where people congregate. A place that people -- voluntarily, not by necessity, eg a train station but not to catch a train -- would like to be. A destination in its own right, where even tourists will drop by and take in the air, the sights, and the social interactions.
Meanwhile, some parts of the USA actively sabotage their parks, replacing normal park furniture with versions that are actively hostile to homeless people, while alienating anyone that just wants an armrest as they sit down. Other municipalities spend their Parks & Rec funds on the bare minimum of parks, lots that are impractically tiny. Why? Because a public park can be used to exclude registered sex offenders from a neighborhood, leading to the ludicrous situation where whole cities are an exclusion zone. Regardless of one's position on how to punish sex offenses, the denial of housing and basic existence is, at best, counterproductive.
So I reiterate: the USA might have a good quantity of parks, but not exactly good quality of parks. People will socialize online unless they are given actual options to socialize elsewhere. And IRL options would build value locally, whereas online communities only accrue to the benefit of the platforms (eg Facebook, WhatsApp) they run on.
The problem is in parks everyone is too spread out to talk to strangers. There needs to be a park with a bar to bring everyone together.
Are you talking more indoors as there are a lot of outdoor stuff but only the library and churches are indoor stuff I can think of and in the one case you need to keep quiet so not great for socializing and in the other you have to follow wierd precepts or whatnot.
Church
We need church without religion
Depending on the community near you, Unitarian Universalists sometimes have basically that. I’ve been an atheist since I was four, but I have no problem with other people being religious and it was perfect for me. If you’re the type to be annoyed by people talking about the universe in a way that suggests the supernatural, you might not want to deal with even the UU’s very mild language. When I went as a kid, we learned about volcanoes in Sunday School, as a gauge for how religious they are.
Or if you want evil church without religion, can I interest you in crossfit?
I jokingly asked my wife if she'd go to basically church but reading from Marx instead and despite neither of us being marxists it actually sounded like something we'd go to
But also seriously look into if you have a local community center or library and what events they host. Stuff like that often struggles to find attendees
I do think there's a special thing about church that is this bigger than yourself experience that you share with your community that just isn't quite replicated in events like art clubs or whatever, volunteering is probably closer
It's the fact that church comes with an actual presupposition that it isn't optional, while de facto being optional.
Going to church (in contexts where denomination shopping isn't a thing at least) means going to a place where a person is not there to validate your particular perspective but instead often to tell you and everyone else in the group to do better, publicly, not because they're better but because they appeal to higher principles whose correctness is taken for granted buly the congregation.
See also: the absolute brain lottery winners on the internet bitching that the pope isn't a real catholic for telling them they're bad catholics (arguably bad christians in general, definitely bad people) for dehumanising poor people and immigrants legal and illegal.
I'm far from a catholic (that is, I'm actually a lapsed catholic if you ask the church, but I was never a believer, just born into it) but there just isn't a space where you're going to participate, respect the ethics and morals, still fall short of them, be chastised, and be forgiven, that doesn't involve some religious aspect.
I'm pretty sure that's only the case if you're a believer. And, in general, people who aren't believers don't go to church, so you're selecting for a group of people who want to believe in something bigger than themselves.
There are several non religious ethical groups to spend time with.
I tried to get you links but I ran out of time before having to do other responsibilities.
That's like a car without wheels
We have those. They're called boats.
That's not a car
People downvote, but you're not wrong and it's probably the most common example in rural areas
It's just an example- I'm not saying it's the only alternative. Although the declining church attendance possibly causes people to seek third places (although I believe the declining church attendance is that it's more socially acceptable to be a non believer these days. Would rather if someone come to Church that they'd be at least open to believing)
Even if you find one where there isn't an emphasis on tithes or donation, that's not exactly a space set up for public socializing. It's a private space, used by a dedicated and defined group, for socializing within that group. Outsiders may be welcome, but they're only welcome within that structure.
Aye, was just an example.
Okay, it was a bad one.
Okay then. Forest heroin den.
Depends, lots of churches welcome lay members of the community to the ancillary activities they organise. Catholic churches in my experience are much more embedded in their communities in southern europe regardless of the status of the people participating.
My father has been lapsed for 40+ years, never shows up for church and doesn't participate in any of the religious aspects but he still runs free arts and crafts workshops in the parish buildings, for the local kids whether they're part of the congregation or not.
Honestly I'm cool with fucking up my body to have a good time, I just wish it didn't cost me $200 for the privelege.
Check your library. They do all kinds of activities.
I should tbh
I regularly do. They are 95% for parents to dump their kids for a few hours, and the the rest manage to suck even more.
Your local gym? CrossFit box? Football/soccer club? Community centre? Library? Outdoor? Scouts?
Community center and library sure, I wouldn’t really consider the rest a third space.
Depending on the gym, some are a lot more third-spacey than others. I've been to a smaller gym where people just hang around after their workouts to socialize, with occasional impromptu dinner outings when the gym closed for the night. I miss that place. You still meet people at bigger commercial gyms, but it's not the same.
Hacker/makerspace.Coffee/tea shops. Library. Community Center.
For the non religious, that's where clubs like the Shriners, or Lions come in. Social clubs that don't revolve entirely around alcohol
It used to be the Mall. It was always a place to hang out, meet friends, window shop, eat, see a movie, etc.
When I was a kid, the local mall even included the local library. I thought that was a great idea, but I never saw another mall with a library.
May I introduce you to your lord and savior Jesus Christ? He’s got a third place for you.
N o
😂
On the reals, I have an atheist friend who started volunteering at a church literally for this reason. I totally understood where he was coming from. If I didn’t have a family and wanted a way to spend time with other people, I’d probably do the same.
Yeah I mean I have family who’ve worked at them before, I get it but I can’t support something I feel causes so much harm
I’ve never heard of a concept of a third place. Seems like everybody should have one.
It still is. There's bars like that in every town.
Yes, my dad was one of them. I haven't gone to a bar for years but it used to be most smaller bars had at least a few regulars that basically lived there. I remember one old vet that used to show up every day as soon as the bar would open for his daily fix... It got to the point the bar refused to serve him, so he would try and get unsuspecting customers to buy them for him. (This was in the 70's and 80's, there were (or at least seemed to be) a lot more alcoholics back then.)
Also booze used to be a LOT cheaper, so it wasn't nearly as expensive as it would be now.
I remember stories from my dad about a guy he knew where the bar maid would have to help him with the first drink in the morning because his hands would shake so much.
The romantic history of the happy drunk is almost entirely fictional. I say almost because I know a few people who are able to take it or leave it, but for the most part the people I know/knew who were drinking either in bunches or daily end up complete and unabridged alcoholics, whether they are active and in serious trouble or have sought help and straightened up, but cannot touch it.
I'm one of the rare happy drunks. Don't drink often, I'm an extremely quiet person usually. But get a few beers in me and my wife says I won't shut up but she also says it's the only time she gets to talk to me. I don't know why, I can't hold a conversation when I'm sober. Never know what to talk about, my work life is boring so nothing interesting ever happens.
When I have a few, it's likeeverything just starts coming out.
You sound very much like me.
When sober I'm Mr doesn't talk a lot (but I will listen) after a beer or two I'm away with the chat.
I become become very vocal...
Yeah, I wouldn't want to spend that much everyday, I'll just have some beers at home for 1/5th the price
The extra price was so they weren't drinking alone, or to avoid going home.
I've never been a big drinker but I have a few places around me where beer is $3. And the actual place my wife and I go if we do feel like drinking is our local VFW. I can get a 24 oz frosty on tap for like 2.50. and a jack and coke for 3. Last time we went out drinking spent like $30 total and we were both drunk
Damn - I'm in Seattle and it's rare to find $6 drafts anymore.
So he’d go to this bar during business hours to drink. And this went on to the point where they stopped serving him? Something is missing from the middle of this story…
Sorry If I didn't explain that right.. the guy was drinking non-stop every single day, to the point you could physically see his liver was shutting down because of his yellowish color. So the bar didn't have much choice and had to cut him off. He was an awesome old guy so no-one wanted to boot him, but if he drinks himself to death the bar would be potentially liable for still serving him so they chose to stop.
Dude managed to get a parenthetical inside a parenthetical, respect
Yes, but bear in mind a lot of factory, construction, and industrial jobs are 7-3 or 8-4. So a working class laborer could go catch a happy hour with the coworkers or neighbors and be home by 5.
Also in the age of single income households men were often not expected to pull as much weight at home.
You guys are only working 8hrs? What a life to have. The company I use to work for extended their store hours in 6pm so 8-6 was typical with no overtime pay. Woww saying this out loud really makes me want to unionize.
Found the American.
In case you want real data rather than personal biases, the average us employee works fewer hours than the average new Zealander (or +62hr/yr ~1 hr/week if you use the oecd data). In neither dataset is the US at the top. New Zealand, Australia, and the US are all wayyy above the German/french crowd, though.
Even if the germans are taking two months off they're still only working 6 hr/day, which explains their pay (american engineers seem to follow the pattern of 1-it sucks here->2-what about europe->3-actually, I will accept getting 3x pay for more work).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_annual_labor_hours
Did this (Mon-Sat) together with a few friends and colleagues in my late 20s. We were regulars to the point of the cook always making something off menu more fitting for regular dinner, as well as no need to settle the bill every night. Once a month everything was tallied up.
Good times. Had to stop though since I found myself going through the fridge on a Sunday once looking for some alcohol.
edit: This was the tail end of the 90s btw, small town in Sweden
I had a similar experience except I'd open the fridge before work and instinctively grab a beer or start to grab one before I realized I was just there for creamer.
I live in a tiny NE college town where that happens but for breakfast at a dive coffeeshop. It's loud, packed, the food and coffee are meh, but every single day I can walk in there and see 5-10 locals eating breakfast and shooting the breeze. There's cliques who always sit together, and social butterflies who pick a different group every morning. A bottomless mug of coffee is $3, so folks will just come and hang out from like 8-11am. It's great fun.
There's a brewery next door that's often busy at night but generally it's a quiet town so folks are home chilling after dinner.
That sounds awesome.
It really is the dream
I like that in the US, New England (NE) is in the North East (NE).
Could be Nebraska.
It is, but they used to be NB.
New Brunswick?
It used to be a place for the working stiffs to gather and was priced accordingly. Nowadays capitalization has been overused to the point where a lot of businesses are pricing themselves out of customers.
An average draft goes for $7-11 dollars in my city. And the $11 drafts are served in a smaller chalice than the cheaper stuff. I usually buy a 12 pack of beer for $24 from the store and get drunk at home when I can afford it.
Holy fuck! Even today you can get a 30 pack of average beer like bud Budweiser for 25 ish.
Back in the day I paid 3 a point for some cheap ass.
I'm buying IPAs they taste better to me and still feel like a bang for the buck, I grab a pack of Bell's
My uncle was a factory worker and a daily regular at his favorite local bar for more than 30 years.
My mom wouldn't allow me to go inside the bar (because drinking alcohol is a sin, you know). But in the '80s and '90s, before cell phones, I knew exactly where to find him after school if I needed anything.
Unfortunately, 30+ years of excessive drinking caused a lot of really serious health problems that caught up to him when he was in his 50s. The owners and staff sent a huge flower arrangement and all came to his funeral.
A sin? Lol what? Jesus turned water into wine, the fucking madlad!
Yeah, I used to finish work, walk down to my local pub, have dinner and a few drinks then go home to bed, good meals, good people to talk to, I kinda miss it but I don't drink anymore.
I’m an outlier because I live in a walkable neighborhood in a city. But I have 10 breweries within walking distance around my house. I know the owners by name for 2 of these breweries and the bartenders know me for 4 of them. I think they all know my dog.
I usually go with my wife and/or girlfriend about 2-4 days a week, but it’s still very much a hang out.
We’re also Friday regulars to a semi-close bar every Friday because I won a free beer/week for a year in a $25 raffle!
Ok, sorry. I just wanted to post that finally. Also, I was remembering that one clip that always gets put in compilations about that guy and his wife and her bf. Anyway, carry on.
Being polyam in Seattle is great. All of my coworkers know I’m poly and just accept it. All the bartenders know too. Makes it easy for them to start the tab.
But does your wife have a bf?
Not yet! I think she thinks I’m already enough to handle 😂
You have a wife and a girlfriend AND you can afford to go to a bar every night? Must be nice to be in the 1%! 😉
Tech jobs in Seattle go crazy! We make ends meet since we all have some kinda job. Not too crazy since we’re still renting. But eventually we want to be permanent in. Seattle!
With a wife and an and/or-girlfriend I don’t think he’s settling at all..!
😹 It’s such a great city. I love everything about it!
If they all have jobs, they can split fixed costs liking housing or a shared car across 3 people instead of 2. Or more - the OC only mentioned a wide and gf, but there could be more people in the polycule.
I watched a documentary about "bar culture" in the 60es and 70es where i live. Shit was pretty wild. Dudes talked about going to the bar like people talk about video games these days. "Oh yeah, on a good week i'm here 40 to 48 hours" what doesn your wife think about it? "She's not excited, but you know..."
I saw an old video about when they made it illegal to drink and drive and dudes are like “they’re taking away my freedom! It’s my business if I wanna go to the bar and grab a couple beers after work before heading home! Im not hurting anyone!” It’s crazy how casual getting nightly drunk and driving home was in those days
I don't think it's crazy at all. The US in particular still has basically no real mass transit and bars everywhere. Everyone knows there is still drinking and driving going on. Certainly not all those people are calling ubers.
Edit- crazy to believe. Certainly is crazy to do.
Im sure there are plenty of towns in rural America that still follow the “boys will be boys/go home and sleep it off” mentality with drunk driving and good ole boy crime in general
Wel…if you’re white anyways. Nothing is more American than selective enforcement of laws.
Five and drive, baby
My dad's friends often claim that's what destroys restaurants. You can't even go and get hammered and drive home.
Yeah, not drinking would be pure insanity, i could never. Imagine spending time with friends sober.
It is kinda crazy how different the times were. In the same documentary, they also touched on immigrants and how they also like to hang out in bars. One guy casually said something like: well i some people don't hate these Spaniards, and some people just want them dead.
I just got off the phone with my kid at college and he was complaining that part of a group of his friends never hang out sober. It still happens.
He doesn’t drink so that’s a part of his social life he still needs to figure out, but he’s been taking exploration hikes instead: 18 miles today!
Not drinking is not easy, especially that age. I stpped drinking when i was almost 30. I thought that's just a thing that you're not doing, no big deal. A lot of people find it VERY weird. You wouldn't believe the conversations i had especially with drunk people. "You don't drink? Like never?" "Never ever?" "But how?"
I had to literally explain to people what i do instead of drinking and how to order a water in a bar. Ot that a glass of wine is also alcoholic, that i know i can drink a beer and still drive, that one glass is okay, that i don't care how "good" it is, that i don't drink even if you don't even taste the alcohol. It never ends. And just like religion, you can't just say because it's dumb and you're kinda proof of it right now.
Still do?
I don't drink anymore, but yeah. Those people you see in dive bars are often daily customers.
It depends on (sub)culture, but mainly yes.
Bars were often cheap too, so going to the bar multiple times per week was not expensive. The reason these bars were cheap:
Also,
Found the non-American
Some of the older old dudes I've worked with used to. I actually convinced one of the avocado toast whiners he was wrong based on bar cost now and back in his day
Umm, I'm in my 40s and I do... 😬
Granted it isn't like Cheers, I just need the change of scenery since I work from home 10-20 hours a day.
20 hours a day? Bro...
Trying to get a company off the ground so it's all hours all the time right now, fortunately/unfortunately.
That's fair. Drinking at one's workplace is usually frowned upon.
usually, upper management go for their hour and a half long lunches and come back blitzed is not uncommon, at least in the workplaces I’ve been.
It's fairly common right now, too.
How can anyone afford to go to bars anymore? Drinking at home is much cheaper.
Depends what your drinking and how fast. You find places that have cheaper drinks tend to be the ones where there's more regulars
any area with bars has a cheaper bar usually, my main college bar was hella cheap, always had a deal everyday, most nearby bars had deals once a week or specials for locally brewed stuff that was a lot cheaper than buying it elsewhere. I could black out easily off 50$ vs sf which is like 2 one shot drinks maybe for that amount
$50 is a lot to spend on booze. I can just stay and home and black out on $5 with a beer and three 100 proof shooters.
Well at the college bar I couldve spent 20$ to black out with 4 pitchers depending on the day, sf id get one drink maybe
Get buzzed first then go out and coast with a few drinks
Gotta find the dive bars with the specials on shitty liquor and beer
Man, I have no fucking idea. I can't afford to rent my own apartment without roommates to help, and I have worked with dudes that made $3/hour less than me who owned sizeable middle-class houses somehow. 😬
It's technically considered depression & alcoholism to drink alone in one's house.
Most people use alcohol to unwind & socialize so they do it in social environments.
Or maybe I'm just introverted. Kind offensive to assume that I'm depressed just because I prefer drinking alone. I mean I am depressed, but not due to a lack of socialization. Drinking is a lot more enjoyable in a peaceful environment, away from loud music, obnoxious drunks, and potential police interactions.
Ah found the extrovert
I was just speaking from what I've observed in others' behavior. I literally have never had alcohol in my life, nor do I ever "go out," especially not to bars. None of that appeals to me.
Ok
I turned legal drinking age this year and alcoholic drinks at bars and events is so expensive. $8-$14 for anything that isn't beer. Not enough to get a buzz for more than 10 minutes. Back to mocktails for me. I also am extremely socially awkward and don't know how to order so maybe that's got something to do with it
That's what the booze is supposed to help with. Whether or not it does is up for debate but it certainly makes you worry less and that's a huge part of awkwardness.
People think alcohol fixes problems, really it only makes problems worse & causes more problems.
Anyone who thinks alcohol "fixes problems" is probably not a serious person. I don't think I've ever heard of someone who truly believes that. It's kind of an absurd notion. Unless you're being extremely pedantic, the problem is "getting money", and you're working at a brewery or tending bar, etc.
Alcohol is, however, an inextricable part of the human experience throughout the world. I literally can't think of a culture for whom some form of fermented grain/fruit/sugar wasn't a significant element in their cultural development at some point in history.
Many Native American cultures did not know about alcohol before it was introduced by Europeans, same in Australia and New Zealand. The many deleterious effects of colonization are certainly "a significant element in their cultural development" but maybe not in the way you intended.
People who drink do indeed report that in the height of inebriation, everything in their lives feels quite good & well. Then they report the hell of the hangover the next day, and the craving for more alcohol so they can feel good again. A perpetual cycle of drunkenness that eventually affects career & family & finances & domicile stability.
I've never had alcohol in my life. Poisoning oneself does not need to be normalized.
I wouldn't necessarily say it fixes problems and if it does it certainly isn't free of cost in more than one way. I do think it can temporarily lessen some anxieties that one might view as obstacles to happiness because they impede one's ability to engage in meaningful social interaction. I also think that making friends and finding romantic partners are learned behaviors that you need practice to get good at. If alcohol can help you be social enough to make friends in a new place or find a partner then I can see why someone would say it fixed a problem for them. It's certainly more expedient and cost effective than therapy to get past your hangups would be.
That said, that sort of "responsible" use of alcohol isn't without its drawbacks and risks. I don't know how common it is either. Perhaps that's just what people who like to drink tell themselves to avoid feeling shame about their behavior.
It's not "technically considered depression & alcoholism" to have a drink alone at home. That's just not true. 🤷♂️
Denial ain't just a river in Egypt 😉
Very cutesy reply. I see you looking down on people who choose to drink elsewhere in this thread. I don't know if you think alcoholism is funny, or depression is funny, or if you're just running your mouth about things you don't understand, but you're being a bit silly.
My dad was an alcoholic. And I'm well-acquainted with depression. None of this is funny. And I think people who put poison into their bodies are idiots. That shouldn't even be an opinion. People who put poison into their bodies are idiots. Period. They're hurting themselves and everyone & everything around them. Just so they can drink something that makes them feel good for a minute.
I even dated a high-functioning alcoholic for 6 years. Same story. Alcohol was more important to him than anyone or anything else in the world no matter how hard he pretended otherwise.
When I say I'm thirsty it means I literally need water. When he said he was thirsty, he meant he needed alcohol. He looked at me like I had three heads when I drank water. He couldn't even imagine drinking water.
Regarding putting poisons into our bodies, generally a bad idea unless it's chemotherapy or something prescribed by a doctor who knows the benefits outweigh the risks etc.
Yup, it used to be a lot more common, Not Just Bikes has a great video on this subject too and how our car dependency made most of them disappear:
The Great Places Erased by Suburbia (the Third Place)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvdQ381K5xg
non YT https://yewtu.be/watch?v=VvdQ381K5xg
For folks who like this theme, there is https://lemmy.world/c/fuckcars
Yes, even in countries like Austria. Saddest thing was that many men that were 'great pals' while drinking turned into abusers when coming home, making their families co-dependents and their lives hell.
Remember, no internet before this millenium, 3 to 7 television channels before cable, no TV before the 50s...
Yeah. My husband went out to the pub 6 nights a week. He's no longer drinking - quit last year - finally! (I quit in 2009)
Seriously, alcohol is overrated.
When I was younger I did this and it was the best part of my life. Having a place to go where everyone was welcome was very nice
Did everybody know your name?
and they were always glad you came
Norm!
Morn!
A lot of blue collar workers went straight to the bar after work 3-4 days a week.
I did sheet metal back in the 90's for a year. Typical day... start at 6, off at 2:30, bar from 3-5. Pretty much everyday.
Pub culture is definitely a thing in the UK though and I wish we had some of these neighborhood meeting places in the US too. They aren't necessarily a place to get shitfaced but to get a simple meal and a beer.
Fraternal/Sororal organizations used to be a big thing up to the 60s with the Elks clubs, Odd Fellows, Shriners, etc. We've lost a lot of that community glue.
Car centric urban design and pub culture are incompatible.
though alcoholism is bad, the lack of thirst spaces is a much bigger problem
*Third spaces
I can't decide if this is a joke or a Freudian slip.
Thirst spaces is a new term for this ancient person. Could you define?
I'm picturing a bunch of thot's and dudebros mingling
meant third spaces.
though when taking about pubs, it could work
I was raised in a bar. My mother owned it for 40 years. Yes, same customers every day. They were all alcoholist but some of them stopped functioning. My mother Fed them, did their taxes, cut their hair. It's terrible and sad. The functioning alcoholists had a family to turn home to. I used to be an alcoholist until 10 years ago. My wife had to make me realise that drinking every day, even just one beer a day, is alcoholism.
Is alcoholist(s) term that means something different than alcoholic(s)? Never seen it before
No, I suspect OP's native language might not be English.
True, autocorrect switched alcoholic to alcoholist.
Alcoholist is an older word for alcoholic. They might be older, hence the older word
I'm old, but not that old :-)
Yeah I wasn't sure if maybe it was a term they used in another part of the world, or if maybe it meant one who partakes in the use of alcohol but maybe isn't an addict. It seems like it is a synonym like you are saying.
I think it’s alcoholism/alcoholic. Just a different translation.
I worked in a bar for a few years and I saw the same people everyday. They would even come in on holidays if the bar was open. Some of them would blow their whole paycheck, I always thought it was kinda sad.
I had the same experience and did feel badly for them as well. For a lot of them (especially middle aged men in my experience), they just seemed very lonely. I miss a lot of those regulars, they were generally good people.
In the show Clarkson's Farm, Jeremy Clarkson is looking around, trying to buy a pub. At one point they talk about wanting to have a pub with a little grocery store attached. Clarkson's girlfriend explained why that was common at one point in Ireland. It was because in the past men would get paid, go immediately to the pub, and drink until their paycheck was gone. If there was a shop attached to the pub, they could hand in an order at the shop before they started drinking. And then, even if they drank away the rest of their paycheck, they'd still be handed a bag of groceries before they were kicked out and had to stumble home.
Still do.
I've been alcohol free since 7th April 2023 but it's a stop on the way home to see mates that don't game online.
UK pub that's part of the community. We organise canal cleans / litter picks / quiz nights / charity events etc..
Pubs can be good and you don't HAVE to drink booze. Bars now..... They are a different story I feel.
On a side note I feel the ability to 'legally' drink (without a meal) from the age of 18 stops a lot of the idiotic drinking stuff I always hear about from over the pond.
Used to be? This is still common in many industries and localities.
Yeah, from a lot of the responses I'm seeing my ignorance on the matter. I'm in a big city so it's probably very different.
Yes, and it's still pretty common.
beer used to be a lot cheaper
And bars/pubs used to be fine with the regulars hanging out in the corner, only buying a pitcher of beer each per night.
I live in England, but maybe twenty years ago I'd go to my regular pub most days, have a couple of pints and maybe some food, socialise with people I'd got to know there.
Obviously that doesn't happen anymore, it's way too expensive now. Going to the pub or out for a meal is a rare treat these days.
I don’t know about every night but I know plenty of dudes who have a watering hole they go to weekly.
For référence, there is an ancient in my village of 300 inhabitants that isbsaying that in the 60's, there were SIX bars in the village. For 300 inhabitants.
So I guess so.
Also for reference we only have a bread machine now, no shops of any kind.
"We" meaning your village? Your village no longer has shops, but somehow shares a bread machine? Or am I totally misunderstanding this?
Yes
It's a baguette vending machine in the center of the village
Yes I am french
This sounds so much better than my bread machine where I have to add ingredients, press buttons, and wait four hours, but can never get a baguette
Ohhh a bread vending machine. That makes a lot more sense than what I was thinking lol
Worked in a pub in the UK.
Yes, we had regulars. They'd be there nearly every night after work for a quick pint before heading home.
Very few of them would stay for more than one or two though
There's a reason prohibition happened. Alcohol consumption back then was 3x higher than it is now, so it was not uncommon for men to get off work, go blow their paychecks at the bar, then go home and beat their wives.
Back in the day, they'd be getting drunk AT work.
Then they'd go to the bar and get wrecked.
Yes. In my fathers time men would go there often for lunch and after work. I think some went home and then went over for an hour or two. Later it was still common but someone who did it all the time would be called a barfly but almost everyone did like friday night and pretty often thursday or saturday. Its diminished since and more and more bars have to sorta be restaurants or dance clubs or band venues.
I think the men were called “loadies”, getting loaded (drunk) before going home. Women got the much less forgiving name of being a “barfly.” However, that may have just been regional and/or for that era.
when I heard barflys it was always men who hung out every night in a bar.
Huh. Must have been regional where I was then.
Never heard of loadies but barfly was always a term used for women around me.
Yes, and in some places especially small towns, it is for some people, since it's the main hangout spot (3rd place) in town.
Though I don't think young people do that as much, "regulars" tend to mean 1-3 times a week. My university had a bar that had a "ritual" where Friday afternoons it would be a completely full house.
A lot of bars would have tons of cash on Fridays and bartenders would cash paychecks. Customers would pay off the tab and start a new one. Idk how common it is anymore. Most jobs I’ve had for a while will give a paper check if they have to, but discourage it as much as possible.
I do. Most other people that come here are regulars also.
Not much else out there for community.
Yes, and it still is to certain folk.
I think with sugar and alcohol taxes, a lot of establishments had to change to survive.
If I could afford it I would. Better than going home and sitting on my ass playing video games or whatever. Bars around here are too expensive though (just like everything else). I could drink for a month at home on what I spend for 1 trip to the bar.
I walk by some neighborhood bars, that are cheap and still some people go everyday like the Simpsons.
Videogames are better. I've come to recognize some of the "local drunks" that are there every day, they do be like Barney from the Simpsons. It seems a little depressing looking at them destroying themselves with booze.
Not if your goal is to socialize they're not.
They certainly can be. Plenty of online games center around socializing. It might not be enough for those who need daily physical contact but it is far from an anti-social hobby.
The scope of the socialization is extremely limited though. It's centered around the game and unlikely to grow beyond that into a real relationship. It's not like you can ask your internet friends who live hundreds of miles away to come help you move a couch or come to a barbecue or whatever. You don't develop typically connections with your local community.
Admittedly playing WOW back in the day helped me a lot with getting over the social anxiety issues I have and learn to be a more functional adult. I'm not sure that would have happened had I not met the people I did in that game. But none of those friendships went beyond playing the game.
You aren't wrong but you're making this sound like a universal good. I don't particularly want to go bond with the local bbq guy who seems nice enough other than the little blue lives matter bumper sticker on his raised pickup truck. Sure he has truck nuts but it's human contact.
The moving a couch example is kinda cringe so Im skipping.
Those were just examples. There's thousands of reasons why having friends locally is valuable. Especially if you're in USA with the way things are going. I'm really not sure what you even think the downsides are... If it's the drinking aspect, you're not required to drink at a bar, nobody really cares if you have something non-alcoholic instead.
I've had online friends I met in games who I've remained in contact with for many years well outside of the original game. Some of them I've met in real life as well. I've also run into many other 'friend groups' who hang out in their favorite chat app and jump around between games or other hobbies for whatever fits their mood. It seems common enough to me that it shouldn't be that rare or difficult for anyone willing to put some effort and trust towards it.
I know quite a few that counter that.
YMMV.
I mean I'm open to suggestions, I'd like to form more connections with people, but I never had relationships from games transition into anything else. Everyone I've met through gaming has always been hundreds of miles away or in other countries so it's not like we could meet up to do shit on the weekends.
You do you. I know a couple from different countries who met playing WoW, they have a son now – it wasn't mail-ordered.
Sure but the social aspect in games is often pretty toxic.
I played quite a lot of Dota 2 and while communication and cooperation greatly improve your chances of winning... More often then not it was just someone raging hard over minor mistakes.
Don't know if I would have thought of Dota as a social game tbh. Maybe a more casual MMO?
But what about keep talking and nobody explodes, overcooked or genital jousting?
Deep Rock Galactic and especially Helldivers 2 gave me the most positive interactions with random strangers despite lack of dedicated social hubs or lobbies.
Yeah coop games are usually pretty good choices
Dota is not casual at all, it's quite competitive. It's the reason the communication is so toxic.
Couch co-op games are very nice but in my personal experience friends don't make a habit of gathering to play them. It's a infrequent ocasion, online gaming is much much easier. Boardgames are a cooler experience if you're gonna have people frequently at your place.
Absolutely, just as you can wander into the wrong bar and end up in a fight.
Competitive games will definitely bring out the worst in some people though, but there's plenty of co-operative and role-play games that can lead to good lasting friendships.
Strong disagree.
yeah same. also i don't drink alcohol anymore but it would be nice to have more places to hang out.
Same
These neighborhood bars in Boston were real. I had a GF who worked in a university lab where they would go to a bar after hours and she would bring me along. It was an old school Irish bar (even had pics of Sinn Féin members on the walls). I kept going after we broke up and ended up dating one of the woman who bartended. She would pass me free drinks. I was always a light drinker though, I just nursed them. This was mostly in my 20s. I did visit another Irish pub after night class in a different part of the city and the guy working there remembered what my usual meal order was. lol
Europeans are pretty active on this mater. I'm always amaze by how much people go to bistro bin France and Belgium. I think this applies to pub in England too. In Quebec, I think it was morr common in the 60, 70 and earlier and fade away with the importance TV and later the Internet took in people's home. Now when I go back to some small cities that use to have pretty active downtowns in the late 90s and 200Os, it's absolutely dead. The only bars that survive have a crowd of people in their 40s and more. It use be full of young people, but now I guess they just "flix and chill'...
I mean, people still do that.
Alcoholics, sure
Some. Not all.
Not all pubs are drink first. Food and socialising are also important things.
In rural areas it might be the only 'communal' space.
I don't know if you're aware, but pubs have been around for literally thousands of years. Google tells me that "The oldest known pub in England is a contested title, but The Old Ferry Boat Inn in Cambridgeshire is often cited, with claims of serving drinks since (560) AD. "
I'm sure there were a lot of alcoholics to frequent the place over the past 1500 years or so, but I'm willing to bet that there were a lot of other people who just wanted a meal and a good conversation most days.
Sir Patrick Stewart's autobiography has a heartbreaking account of his father's nightly bar visits, and it sounds like he didn't drink alone.
Before the pandemic, I was watching Drag Race at the gay bar and a not-so-gay bar, so yes.
At the same time?!? Were the bars across the street from each other and you had two different friend groups in both, so you had to make up excuses, change your outfit, and run over to the other bar all night?! That sounds like an exciting time!
Oh, these were separate events. One full season of All Stars was hosted at a regular bar by professional organizers from the community (downtime between Prides, amirite) and there were special events at the gay bar for the season finale and our local version, La Más Draga.
Yes. I grew up in the Boston area.
NORM!!!
Don’t give me away so easily you cocksucka
Bartender from the US here. Im one of the few people i know in the industry that doesnt go out drinking almost every single night
I try to go to a local spot once a week or so for the sake of community. It's kinda fun.
My problem drinking happens mostly at home.
Around 10-15 years ago I worked in a pizzeria with a little sports bar. We had more than a couple people who were there almost every day.
I still stop by there once in a while, and without fail I run into at least one of those old regulars every time.
One of the only things I miss from somewhere I used to live was my local bar
It was a minute walk from my front door
It was a little hub for the community. My dogs loved it and it was a fantastic place to socialise
I wasn't there every day, but a couple of times a week wasn't unusual
I currently have 2 great microbreweries near my work. So, I alternate nights, but, very much a regular at both.
I used to, up until the last couple years, when I stopped bartending. I still get most of my drinks for free though! And i still have a couple different groups of friends im all but gauranteed to find one of to hand out with.
Like…um…what are you doing?
I worked in a couple of pubs in england back in the 90s and there were definitely regulars that would come in every weekend night and quite often, some week nights.
When I was in my 20s I frequented a local bar a few times a week and always thought it'd be cool if the bartender would just know what my usual drink was. Turns out that was not a great idea.
Walked into a bar/club one night and it was packed because some biker event. They had multiple bars but I usually went to an outside one upstairs because I could smoke outside, you know double down on being unhealthy. The bartender somehow saw me and my spouse walk in, ran out from behind the bar and grabbed two chairs stashed in a corner so they were out of the way of people dancing and asked people to slide over and put those chairs in at the bar so we could sit down. Everyone around the area had this look like the queen of fucking England just walked in and Ill never forget it. That's the kind of customer service that will make sure you come back. The guy knew that business was seasonal, but if you treat your locals well when it gets busy like that, they'll be the ones who are there when it's slow season and he'd still have a few customers.
me and my friends used to be regulars in a shitty pub where there was a group of older people who would be in there all day every day.
he was probably double my age but it didn't stop him coming over to our table and pestering me and some of the other women.
we didn't go in too frequently but the staff recognised us as regulars. we had to stop because some nasty people would come in on a specific day and one of our group wqs afraid of running into them.
Not every night but twice a week I got social pressure to go to the bar to drink. I hated it because those were eight perfect hours that could be used for playing with my PC 🤓
Nowadays I couldn't afford it anymore even if before I was a broke student and now I have a job
Depends on the person. I think it was more common 20-30 years ago than now in some places.
I never did and none of the other men and women in my family either.
Such a vague question merits the default It Depends™.