I get it, I absolutely respect someone wanting to be safe, but i think it would also absolutely ruin the date for me. I just can't really interact the same way in a group as I do one on one. Either that, or I'd end upv mirroring both of them simultaneously and it would end up in a throuple.
I respect it, but i don't get it, and it would be a complete deal breaker for me. What do you think a person on a date in a public place is gonna do to you?
But even then, no one needs to ask you out on a date to do that. Any time you go out in public by yourself that could happen just as easily. If you're that unreasonably fearful then i don't want to spend time with you
Why should they trust some random dude they met on a dating app?
no one says they have to, but they probably shouldn't, i dunno, go out on a date with them if they can't.
You act like that's some crazy fear, but it happens all the fucking time.
call it a crazy thought, but if i were premeditating sexual assault, i probably wouldn't choose someone who has my name, photos, phone number, and a history of correspondence to show motive. lol
Do you all have a different idea of what a date is than me or something? The point is to get to know someone you don't know yet. I guess if you were communicating for weeks beforehand this might seem weird, but that's making some big assumptions. You're acting like this woman has requested her friend accompany her for every moment of their ongoing relationship. It's wild to me to get so insecure about someone not fully trusting you this first time you meet. Trust is built over time, and it's not a slight against you if someone wants to protect themselves.
call it a crazy thought, but if i were premeditating sexual assault, i probably wouldn't choose someone who has my name, photos, phone number, and a history of correspondence to show motive. lol
And yet, a casual examination of history shows that it happens all the time. And more often than not, charges never get brought up.
Now certainly the perceived frequency is far higher than the actual likelihood, but I don't blame anyone for not wanting to roll those dice.
Do you all have a different idea of what a date is than me or something? The point is to get to know someone you don't know yet.
it's 2025 and the typical use case when you meet someone on an app is to chat online, maybe do some video calls for a week+ to establish rapport and vet one another. by the time you meet up you should have some amount of chemistry and a feel for each other's values.
if you don't, the hinged thing to do is to not go out until you do. not to bring a third wheel lol.
but I don't blame anyone for not wanting to roll those dice.
apt metaphor considering it's a stupid fucking game to play. surely you can't blame anyone for choosing not to play it.
A person who chooses to take a minority of experiences and lets it influence all other experiences has internal work to do.
The moment you try to make that someone elses problem, then you aren't engaging with your biases, and that's not a sign of a healthy and mature person, that's not the type of person a lot of people want relationships with.
He shouldn't, and the fact that that idea doesn't even cross most men's minds is an enormous privilege.
I don't know about you, but I generally take a little time getting to know someone before I decide to trust them. Why on earth would you not?
What you don't seem to consider is the risk involved. When the consequence of misplaced trust is potentially rape or death, a small amount of caution is plainly warranted.
Nobody is out here assuming all men are rapists, that question is as irrelevant as it is idiotic. The point is that any man could be a rapist, and those odds sure as hell aren't small enough to just roll the dice on some rando you've never met.
It's easier for us (I'm assuming you're male too). I don't really have to care. The worst consequence we can reasonably expect is what? A too attached girl who won't leave you alone? When was the last time you went on a date with someone who could physically restrain you? It's not the fucking same, no matter how much you want to pretend it is.
Sorry, but you're coming from a place of ignorance here, but I do get it. I used to feel that way, but I've known too many women in my life who've experienced assaults in public places to pretend it's not a real issue. I've been roofied in public myself (wrong target, presumably) and have the privilege of only really having to worry about some scrapes and bruises. But the holes in my memory and understanding that that night could have easily gone far, far worse if I had been someone's target is something that will always stay with me.
If you develop a phobia of men that is so bad that it prevents you from interacting with men, then that is YOU problem and you need to work that out.
This is stupid bullshit. Nobody has suggested anything like this and bad faith nonsense wastes everyone's time. Grow up. It's obvious you're taking this woman's caution as some kind of personal slight. It's not, and you should really examine where those feelings are coming from.
Nope. Throuple is dating, threesome is a one-time thing. Like if my wife and I have a girlfriend, we would be a throuple. And if we all sleep together, it would be a threesome. But saying “throuple=threesome” is like saying “couple=sex” when the two describe fundamentally different things. One is the relationship between people, and the other is just a physical act.
This is very common in Asia. The first few (not) dates they bring friends and you can too. Eventually, she gives an indication that she wants to do something alone with you and that’s when the real dates begin.
You make a good point, but considering that the conversation is in English I don't think you'd be too far out of the pale to assume that this is not in Asia, and in most English-speaking countries it's not common to go on group dates before going on individual dates.
It does happen, and quite a bit, but not to the point where it's common, I would say it's at the very most uncommon.
If you bring a friend, they better be down for a 3 way if things go well. The only time this hapoened to me, was when two girls invited me to a 3way and then one of them chickened out, then got mad that I still fucked her friend. Like... That was the entire reason I was there!
I had a girl bring a guy friend along on our first date without giving me a heads up for the same reason. I was like, ok that's a little weird but whatever. I'm certainly not going to give someone shit for doing something that makes them feel comfortable. Ended up chatting it up with the guy friend who turned out to be super cool.
So me and the girl end up seriously dating after a while and she later tells me that she spent most of our first date trying to subtly get her friend to leave so that she could spend more time with me.
I had a girl do that on our first date. She was feeling insecure because she never dated online before. Once she felt comfortable with me, her friends left.
Like the guy defenitely comes off as a dick but also if you check out conventional social media you will see guys who talk about being expected to pay for not just the girl but also their friend, and you will see girls talk about how if she brings a friend for protection then the guy should pay for the friend too.
So many variables exist that we don’t know but for some people there an expectation that if a girl brings a friend the guy needs to pay for both and I wouldn’t default that to just misogyny
I had girls bring a friend with them when I asked them out on a date and it didn't even occur to me that I would pay for them. But also I wouldn't expect the friend to hang around the entire time either, once it turned out I wasn't trying to hurt anyone they generally went away.
Try and remember when you read this type of stuff that these people are the minority. These stories are not the norm and the much huger proportion of people going on dates that are more or less normal are not reporting their experiences because there's nothing notable really about them.
Yes he was being a bit rude but it is surprisingly common for women to expect the men to pay for their friends and it is not at all unreasonable for him to put his foot down early and refuse before she even asks.
She NEVER said that she didn't expect him to pay, she just ignored it, and kept justifying why it was okay to bring her friend. She fully expected him to pay for dinner and drinks for both.
These girls are predators, and they tried to treat him like a chump, and people are pissed because he showed some self-respect.
It's not misogyny to recognize and acknowledge that women can be bad people, just like men can be. In fact, recognizing that women are just regular people, is the opposite of misogyny.
Ive had a couple of times where one of my girl friends has asked me if I could be at a bar they were going on a date at to keep an eye on it in the background. Not like sit down or get to know the guy or anything, just keep an eye out and be there if things go south.
Several times ive known the guy as well. One time I accidentally recruited the date to help me keep an eye on my friend. Had no idea the 2 had never actually met (grew up a grade apart, been in the same social circles for decades)
If I remember correctly (it's been over 16 years), my wife suggested separate checks the first time, and I told her I'd pay this time and she could get the next one if she wanted to go out again.
I think I still ended up paying for the next one (or separate checks), but that wasn't a cultural norm thing, I just get uncomfortable with other people paying for me.
My current fiance said she almost didn't want to go on a second date with me because I wanted to go Dutch on our first date. She still tells me to this day that I'm lucky I was cute.
Date pays for their stuff, you pay for your own. Basically, separate tabs.
To be clear, I would have paid if she had asked me to at the time. When the bill came for the food, I asked if she wanted separate or together, but my phrasing made it sound like I wanted to split it and she said that was fine. Whoops.
Don't worry, she's making up for lost time. I pay for almost everything when we go out now 😅
If i invite someone out to dinner I pay. If someone invites me out to dinner I expect them to pay. However, I think in general in the US most men and women expect the man to pay.
If i invite someone out to dinner I pay. If someone invites me out to dinner I expect them to pay.
expect the man to pay
...they're the same picture. Seriously, given the general dynamics of how straight dating actually ends up working most of the time IRL, these are basically equivalent statements, because the man is also generally expected to be the one to do the asking.
Agreed. Most of the time the man is expected to do the asking. From my personal, not reflective of the rest of society, experience...when dating if I asked someone out id plan the date and pay. It was usually second date when dating men, or once when I had to cancel on a first date I then asked the person out and arranged the first date.
The only time I ever felt a bit grumpy about paying was when the other person couldn't decide between two dishes. I told them to order both, and I assumed theyd take their leftovers. They ate a tiny bit of each and didn't take any home. Thats just wasteful. There was no next date.
This is an outdated expectation, although it could also be considered respectful on a date.
I've heard that in restaurants in the USA you often give your credit card and they scan it and return it because they don't have portable terminals. I've also heard that it's often returned to the man regardless of name on card / who gave it. Both of these seem very outdated.
Smart servers just put the check and the card between the people if it’s not obvious who’s paying. I’m a great test case for this because my spouse and I both happen to have first names that could belong to a man or a woman.
It’s pretty much random which one of us pays because we pool our money anyway.
Often they drop the bill in the little book and we stick the card in the end of it and put it back on the end of the table, they come by, run the card and then come back….
you can see the fear in their eyes sometimes, like “oh shit. This could be either one of them… 50/50 chance I annoy the one who’s writing the tip”.
We’ve both worked service industry so we don’t care at all and tip well either way but it’s pretty funny to see the realization sometimes.
Oh and, if it’s two people on a date (not a boring old married couple like us eating dinner) and there’s only one bill… 9/10 it’s the guy paying.
Have you considered fearing all men isn't a healthy way for an adult to live? And how is that level of prejudice shows through this action?
Adults can go on a date in public by themselves. There are some men who will be hurt but still tolerant, and there will be some that find it offensive.
So much context missing to tell if the guy did good or not. He could be being a prick or just standing up for himself. In any case, this is definitely100% both fake but plus moreover besides also gay.
Going to eat as a first date is bad anyways. Should do something where you are a not forced to sit in front of each other for a fixed amount of time. Why not go for a walk in a park, take a coffee or other things that are more "open".
More of a cultural thing, I think. From what I've gathered from a friend that lives in the Netherlands the dutch are pretty serious about paying for their own meals and getting people to pay for theirs. I even remember seeing a sketch made by some dutch people where one gives a bite of their sandwich to a coworker or something and then they tell the coworker that they're owed x amount for it.
It wouldn't bother me if somebody wanted to bring a friend on a date. However, I would communicate that it would change the dynamic into a "hangout" over a traditional "date" for me. The difference being that a date carries romantic intent and a hangout is for the sake of connecting with others without romantic expectations. Also, a hangout means everybody pays for themselves.
This takes the pressure off by lowering the stakes since it's now just a casual hangout between peers. It also has the benefit of making the third not feel excluded as a third wheel but a welcome part of the group.
Last time a chick brought a friend with her, I got on better with the friend... And I went home with the friend. Pro tip, if youre bringing a friend. Dont make it a friend thats better to talk to than you are.
I had a girl cancel and reschedule our first date shortly before we were supposed to meet up. That date happened, and she confided in me that she'd done that on purpose to gauge my reaction and general demeanor before actually coming out to meet me. I respected that move, and I think I would have been okay with her bringing a friend instead, as long as it was just the once.
Anyway, that was eight years ago, we're married now.
Nice that it worked out but deception and playing games would be a huge red flag for me. Nothing about that instance in particular, it’s just that I’d always wonder “is this situation for real or another trick?”
Maybe the immediate followup fixes it. You were strangers then after all. And after eight years of course you know what you’re working with haha
I don't think "begrudging women a single test to see if someone is the type to explode over a single inconvenience" is the right hill to stick your flag on.
It might seem like a game to you but that's someone's life.
Do you have an alternative for how they should determine if a potential partner is a danger? Besides hiring a private detective or rolling the dice by finding out after they're invested?
If you can't trust a stranger even a little bit then don't date complete strangers. Limit your dating pool to your circle of friends, friends of friends, people you already know or that your friends vouch for.
I mean, I'll decide not to go on the date, but that you do you.
Your lack of ability to judge my character leading up to the date, and the general sense of paranoia leading to a decision like this, aren't qualities I'm looking for in a partner.
Neither is starting things from a place of outright suspicion. Like. I'm not judging. I just have zero interest.
Neither is starting things from a place of outright suspicion.
I would understand it if they are going to someplace private, like the apartment or a dark alley at midnight, but who the hell goes to those places on a first date? I'm not freaking out about a guy asking me to a coffee date at 1000 hours in the middle of a city on a saturday.
They might've had one (or several) bad experiences and this is a trauma response, but even in that case, I don't think it's unreasonable to say "yeah sure they'll pay their own way, I just feel safer if we have a second pair of eyes I trust in the restaurant/cafe/etc with us". Like, you don't gotta be at the table, but I kinda get it for the first date or two being "hey I trust this person, mind if they tag along and grab a drink at the bar to be my watchman or whatever".
You dont even have to ask. Friend can just sit at the bar, or they can bring a second person and just be at a different table. If this is a trauma response, there are ways to make in nonintrusive. Plus, if the other person doesnt know you brought back up, theyre going to be more themselves, and youll see if theyre a sleeze or not sooner. Its not hard to pretend to not be a sleeze while youre being watched then turn it around immediately when youre not.
There's a non insignificant amount of women dating only for free meals, and a lot of them expect men to pay for any number of friends. A lot of guys have opted for lower cost or zero cost first dates, like walks to screen for this.
I’ve never discussed who will pay before a date in my life
Either this person in incredibly tactless or this is some kind of incel meme shitpost.
Either way, whomever is passing it around seems to have a bone to pick.
It wouldn’t even cross my mind as something a woman would assume a date was expected to do.
Idk, really depends on the dynamic between them all. If they're broke college kids and he's an older person with a stable job and surplus cash? If he's picking the restaurant to impress her, knowing she can't afford it? If he already offered up thread in order to entice her out?
But that makes the "date" feel more like a Sugar Baby relationship than a proper date. Also might explain why she feels the need to bring a friend.
Well yeah, but bringing an extra for a dinner date is weird. I've brought extra people along to meet the person I'll be eating with and confirm my location. Having an extra person suddenly in the date dynamic kills the dynamic.
Then just say no and don't go in a date with her. If her safety is such a big inconvenience for you, it's not a good match.
It's ONE date. They are just trying to make sure you are not a rapist. I'd say they are likely to leave as soon as things look like they are going smoothly. Next date she shouldn't be there. If she is invited again then don't go. If on a second date she is still not sure if you are dangerous but wants to go out anyway, something might be wrong
Okay, let's take a step back. I never said it's an inconvenience, i just said it's weird. Please don't assume things about me just because we disagree about something.
I even mentioned alternatives I've personally used to ensure my safety AND not change the date dynamic. Everyone should ensure their own safety, and if that's what it takes for some people then fine but lets not tack on assumptions to force a narrative.
It's weird to have someone sit in on a dinner date to me. Full stop. Am i gonna trip about it? Probably not. You do you boo.
I'd be up for a few dates where the girl brings her friends, as long as she makes it clear beforehand that they're coming. But not a last minute "by the way, my friends are coming."
Grey text is looking out for their safety, good for them. Blue text is clearly communicating their boundaries, good for them. Neither is phrasing their needs as I would, but that's small potatoes. I'd rather date either of these people than most of the ones replying in this thread.
You are not wrong. But I think you are being an asshole about it. You could have said "that is cool, but I'm not paying for her food" and is it. No need to be rude.
I remember when a date auction at my college worked this way, the girls always came in pairs. When I thought about it afterwards, it made sense, but it still made me feel just apprehensive enough in the moment - being outnumbered in a moment of social vulnerability - that I didn’t bid on anyone.
The idea of paying for a date is weird to me but in that scenario I guess the bright side is twice as many girls to potentially hit it off with at once.
Yeah, I get it, it's still kind of weird to me. If I have to pay for a woman's attention who wouldn't be interested otherwise I'd just assume not bother her with it.
I didn't say sex doesn't happen in real life. I said you watch too much porn.
The mind of a man who thinks that a random girl tagging along with a potential first date will agree to have a threesome let alone the first date themselves will agree to normal sex is... a young naive mind who believes that everyone is having spontaneous group sex.
As someone who had a threesome exactly like this scenario played out.
You’re the one who is naive.
Spontaneous group sex happens in real life, all the time. There are many people who do not seek it out. That is valid. There are also people who do seek it out.
Unfortunately the difference between those two types of people defines the lens through which you define a “naive” person.
Hey man just because you got a threesome doesn't mean its common.
Spontaneous group happens in real life -> I agree.
All the time -> I don't agree
There are people who seek it out
But that doesn't mean they get it "all the time"
Unfortunately the difference between those two types of people defines the lens through which you define a "naive" person.
And your lens is too much caliberated to view every encounter as an opportunity even if you don't know whether the OP is actually into it or not, thus projecting your expectations into the scenario.
I don’t mind if we disagree, but as someone who deeply loves and is a part of my local lifestyle community, this conversation feels more personal.
Because you either get it,
Or you just don’t.
There are literal hundreds of people in my local lifestyle community. I’ve been to local events that they cap at 300 for attendance quantity. It’s not abnormal at these events to have cuddle puddles of 5+ people together. Strangers. Just met.
There are folks that I know very well, That are getting laid by groups of strangers (often 3 or more in a group) every single day, outside of these organized events. This is not an exaggeration. Group sex happens all the time. Period.
The reason you believe people aren’t always having group sex is because you’ve never had the opportunity to consistently grasp it. Your perspective doesn’t seem to reflect relevant experience, so it’s hard to believe for you.
Your point of view is naive to people that actually live the bdsm, swinger, and kink lifestyle(s) 24/7.
I think if someone implied they were bringing someone without at least asking, as this person did, I would match their rude energy and say "I did not agree to that, so here are my boundaries."
The way the other party phrased it would annoy the shit out of me. 'I'm bringing my best friend." Ok, so why don't you date them? Causes way more friction than asking "Hey, I know it's unconventional but I would like a friend to be there just for my safety since we don't know eachother yet."
That was definitely my thought reading it but also it would be a thought that I wouldn't articulate because that's not what's actually happening, she just wants a friend to make sure I'm not creepy. So that definitely wouldn't be the right thing to say.
Although if it was the right kind of person and the date was going well I suppose it could come off as a good joke depending on the person
That would have been the move. "Is she attractive?" Result would be she tells you to get lost which is fine. Or 3 people have a great time that you don't mind financing
So fucking true like why the fuck do all of these damn corposhit platforms fucking hate random ass words just because advertisers are scared as fuck of having their crap advertised next to them?? I've actually fucking seen these cunts censor "stole" and "bullet", what is this damn bullshit?? Shut your fucking asses up stupid corpobitches and stop fucking whining about random fucking words!! Random shitty ads that people block anyway are your fucking reason for annoying the hell out of people who happen to use these words? I will fucking kill these fucks with a fucking gun - they even censor "kill" and "gun" because advertisers are SO FUCKING FRAGILE that they cannot take any fucking mention of death or violence. The shitty enshittified shit platforms owned by billionaire shitheads are ASS and the fediverse's war against them needs to be fucking accelerated or we won't be allowed to say "glass" anymore because shards of glass can fucking hurt you and the jackasses will think that this means that the damn word will need censoring into oblivion. Or maybe the fragile fuckers will lobby to make using these fucking words illegal like the damn UAE has it. Fuck you corpobitches 🖕🖕🖕
Has a date where some chick brought her friend ever resulted in a good date?
Sounds like setting yourself up to create conflict in a relationship that doesn't even exist yet.
There's no other way to read this besides "I think you are a horrible person so I need protection on our public date, why am I going on a date with a horrible person? I wanted dinner"
That's how it reads every single time, and men are expected to be cool with it, or they are proven to be horrible like previously assumed.
It doesn't matter if they made themseves afraid of men or not. It's a set of ideals rooted in misandry, and it doesn't help women or men.
Yes. As a dude I recognize that a woman going on a date with a random person is and feels dangerous to most women. I am more than happy to go on a group date or hang out with friends she feels comfortable with for first bit of getting to know a person for like a month to first couple dates. Then once we are looking to know each other closer we can have more private dates. That being said I shouldn't be expected to pay for anyone's experience but my own in these dates or hangouts. Maybe my dates but even still definitely not the friends.
Sounds like setting yourself up to create conflict in a relationship that doesn’t even exist yet.
WTF are you on about, mate?
There’s no other way to read this besides “I think you are a horrible person so I need protection on our public date, why am I going on a date with a horrible person? I wanted dinner”
There absolutely is another way to read it and it's: "there are lots of horrible people and I wanted to make sure you're not one of them".
I guess you reacting to this post in that way puts you bang in the middle of one of those two categories...
I just don’t think it’s healthy to assume every man is a psycho and then make them prove otherwise, especially if you want to try dating them
It's a bit difficult to determine just from online interactions, don't you think?
"Dating" doesn't mean what it used to mean. These days "dating" means "I swiped right, we talked for an hour or two and now we're meeting for the first time".
As long as the other person is upfront about it, I wouldn't be weirded out if they brought a friend to feel better, honestly, no fucking clue who would have an issue with that. Because it's not about "all men", it's about "I'm meeting a stranger".
If you're the person who sees that situation as an attack, you're better off leaving the other party alone.
Yeah, I don't, because I have enough empathy and intelligence to realise that people who don't know me... well, don't know me - and there absolutely are dangerous people out there.
In short: pull your head out of your arse, it's not about you.
Sure, the danger is real and that people need to protect themselves
It's also incredibly offensive to do it directly.
The polite thing to do is make being safe a matter of course. It's very normal to meet in public, it's normal to do checkup texts, it's fine to do a group activity if it's a group activity. We've spent decades normalizing subtle ways to do this
There's a degree of social hygiene necessary, or society falls apart.
Only if you're incredibly insecure about yourself.
The polite thing to do (...)
Overall - I agree, to certain degree. In my opinion, however, society is already "falling apart" due to how social media trains younger people for immediate gratification, everything is fast. Dating is also fast, and people don't want to "waste time" on "incompatible people".
Dating these days is "let's have a date and see what happens", not "let's get to know each other and see if we want to date".
Also, lots of people are pretty lonely, so "group activity" is not possible for them.
Only if you're incredibly insecure about yourself.
Bullshit. This is hardwired into our brains. False accusations hurt, but only when you can't imagine yourself doing what you're accused of.
If someone doesn't bristle at being treated like a wild animal, that's a huge red flag. They're not confident, either they're manipulative or they could see themselves warranting the protection. They're probably not an immediate threat, but that is what a future abuser looks like
And what good is having a friend next to you as opposed to nearby? That's not safer... What, do you think they're going to grab someone out of the coffee shop and run?
There's lots of normal reasons to have someone you know nearby. You can get dropped off and picked up, have a friend in the area doing things. If you have bad vibes, stay in the damn coffee shop and have your friend come in and get a drink.
You can go somewhere you know a worker. You can get to know a place and spend time with the staff so you have a safe ground.
I've had someone introduce me to their co-workers before walking to a cafe a few doors down, that was a positive experience, because it was very friendly and I could feel I just passed a bunch of vibe checks... I didn't even consider that there was a handful of people who saw my face and had eyes on the car I drove up in nearby until much later
That's about as safe as you could ever be, and it wasn't offensive at all, because it was natural and affirmative. It feels good when people notice I'm a good person, and I think having a community is cool.
At the end of the day, no one is ever truly safe, but having community around is how you make yourself safer.
And I really do mean the manipulator thing, if someone doesn't react at all to an implication like that, that's a red flag... Honest people get angry at accusations, guilty ones get calm, manipulators use that information
Being this weird about not paying would be an instant no for me. Around here it's the norm that everyone pays for themselves on a date and even implying that someone will want you to pay for them is pretty rude. The only non-rude way to pay for the entire date is to ask for the full check when the waiter comes before the other person can ask to split it. Usually with the line "I'll take this one, next one's on you ;)" which doesn't really mean that the next one's on them but is more about the implication that there will be a next date.
...can you read? I'm saying that the default is that everyone pays for themselves. Paying for someone else is a niche situation that you need to actively seek out.
It's a test and you failed it by being weird and strange and obnoxious, just let her bring her friend it's literally not a downside for you. She'll feel more comfortable by bringing her friend which can only be a good thing for you.
I don't really consider myself to be particularly spectacular in the social department but even I wouldn't have reacted like that. To be crass, why wouldn't you want more girls on your date?
Dude showed he's annoyed seeing girl seeks protection, by calling the friend RoboCop, and implied she might have wanted him to pay for both, putting carriage before horses.
What you say literally can often show what you think inside, and in a first date scenario every sign will be interpreted
For example, not showing much respect for the female need for protection on a first date can mean dude doesn't think women have reason to feel unsafe
He said he's not paying for her, the implication is they are going out to eat for a date. Not chilling at home or somewhere in private. Bestie can chill somewhere else other than at the table the date is happening at, if homegirl feels threatened or scared of the guy she can signal for bestie.
I can totally understand wanting a trusted friend around to ensure a date goes fine, hell ive done it several times for girls and guys I'm friends with. But that safety net can stay in the background and doesn't need to be at the table interfering with the date. But never once did I expect the friend I was wingmanning for to buy me food or drink while I hovered in the background. All homegirl had to say is bestie is paying their own way or homegirl was gonna give her some money.
She's covering her butt, understandably, by bringing a friend, and he's covering his by stating he's not paying for the third wheel.
Mh is he not showing he's annoyed by her friend tagging along? And why bringing money up?
I mean, if it were happening to me, where I live, I wouldn't even think she was going to expect me to pay not even for herself, and if she ends up expecting or pressuring me, I just know she's not the one. What's there to be scared of? Worst case scenario I just leave my part on the table and go away
I know of memes about women going to first fates just to have nights out without paying, but it's very far from what I see happening where I live, and I suspect it's just manophase echo chamberism. Because, again, one can just put their part on the table and leave, and perhaps date within one's social circle so to avoid this kind of social distortion
To be fair to him, his first response was just that he wasn't paying for her. Her reply to that was about how she invited her for protection but she did not say anything about how they didn't expect him to pay.
I see... Yeah I'm pretty sure that in such a case, where I'm expected to pay, not even asked to, I would definitely cancel, be it one or two people... This is so uncommon in m6 experience that I didn't even think that could be a case
They're having a date in a public restaurant, she doesn't need "protection." She can have her friend call mid-date to offer a bail-out excuse, like everyone else does.
The only reason for her friend to be present is to scam a free meal and a bunch of expensive drinks. These girls are predators, get a real date. There are plenty of women who would love to go out to dinner on a real date, not just to scam a free dinner and drinks from some chump.
Yeah... you see, exactly because people who think like you exist, women have to look for clues right away that they are not going to date a misogynist...
Women need protection when meeting with strangers, basically all women have life experience that make them feel they need it. I'm sure you as a guy are able to take no for an answer, but your date doesn't know that yet, and it takes just one guy who doesn't to ruin a woman's dating experience and possibly her health and safety.
I do know women who don't feel that need, but that's mostly because they are ignoring their own and their friends' past experiences. It's their choice ofc, but it's universally accepted among women that it's not a strange thing to do, in fact is the safest thing to do.
If some women then abuse that need to try to freeride, it's another discussion, and as a guy I would simply drop the date if I were in that situation. But the need exists, it is valid, and not validating this need to your date will raise a red flag.
If some women then abuse that need to try to freeride, it's another discussion,
No, it's not "another discussion," it's the very discussion that OP wanted to have when he wrote his post.
Everybody wants to talk about women looking for "Red Flags," and I don't blame that at all for doing that, but men have just as much right to look for Red Flags as well. They may not be the same Red Flags, women obviously have more safety concerns (justifiably), but men have to watch out for women whose only interest in dating them is to financially exploit them, which is a far more common occurrence than a sexual assault.
We all have the right to refuse to be exploited. She can insist on bringing a chaperone, but he shouldn't be expected to pay for her, and if that's a deal-breaker, than it becomes pretty clear that they were only interested in taking advantage of him.
I just really have to say that in my experience and for what friends have told, that is simply not a realistic concern in my mind
As for it being "more common" than abuse, I just have your word for it. And I simply don't believe it. Because female friends talking about sexual abuse is something both more taboo and more frequently happened to me, than male friends telling me they had to jump a date because the girl was a gold digger.
Hence our difference of views on this
Ofc my suggestion is not to date people until you know them a bit, if that's so common in your life.
The test was "Is this guy so desperately horny that he'll pay for meals and drinks for two, even though neither one of us has any intention of having sex with him, and having a friend along makes it even easier to steer the conversation away from any path that might lead to sex?"
Yeah, that's a test you want to fail. Those women are predators.
honestly.. I would be happy to have more people just for the sake of meeting them and having a fun friends day out. Does not need to be a date. We could just hangout.
Yeah, that's great if it's just a hang, but that's not what this was. This was clearly supposed to be a serious date, the kind that hopefully leads to a relationship, sex, a life together, marriage, kids, retirement, etc.
If I'm taking a girl out for a nice romantic dinner, I'm expecting a certain sort of meeting, and I'm willing to pay significantly more to create the atmosphere in which we can open up and start to explore the idea of a future.
But if she decides she wants to bring a friend, that changes everything. Now the entire dynamic of the date has changed, and we can't have the kind of personal conversation I'd like to have (and she would want to have, if she was being honest about accepting the date), and splurging on a fancy restaurant is a waste.
If she decides that she'd rather have a fun, casual hang-out, that's fine, but I was looking for a serious date. I'm not willing to spend the same kind of money on a friendly hang-out as I would on a serious date, and it's pretty offensive that my date has unilaterally decided that we won't be having a serious date, we will have a casual hang-out with her friend, but they still expect me to pay for it as if it was that original serious date.
She did not accept this date in Good Faith, and he is under no obligation to indulge her disingenuous behavior. He's actually lucky that her true nature became apparent BEFORE he spent a lot of money on her. Save that for a girl who isn't a predator.
Yeah the problem with that conspiracy theory of yours is nowhere in the text does it ever even suggest that there is any expectation that the friend would have to be paid for. Or indeed that the guy in is even being expected to pay for the girls meal.
It also sounds like a first date, which is not something that is usually all that elaborate, so if this is some evil trap to get free food it's going to basically be a taco maybe a sandwich something not something worth the effort.
When he says he isn't paying for the friend, the proper thing to say is that he isn't expected to pay for her, she's just there for safety.
But she doesn't say that, she justifies her friend's presence, which isn't his issue. His problem is paying for it, and she carefully avoids confirming that she doesn't expect that, which means that she DOES expect that.
Not once did she tell him that he wouldn't have to pay for her friend, despite him being very clear that was his objection. She expected him to pay.
Not only does that sound like a better date to me, but I also make it pretty clear upfront we split the cost of the date. Like, I'm pretty good at winning over friends and they end up getting my back during a misunderstanding (speaking from experience lol).
Doubling down on not paying for her food when there was no indication that he was expected to was definitely strange. It's a perfectly fine thing to be uncomfortable with, don't try and force the fault on her.
not paying for the random 3rd wheels food... yeah, triple down on it. make it VERY clear you aren't paying for someone whom you aren't wanting to actually meet or invited in the first place.
He doubled down on it when it wasn't really acknowledged. After he said he wasn't paying, she responded with an explanation for why her friend was coming. I mean she did say ok, but that might be agreement or just a way to move on the conversation. Like, "Ok, but what if I told you..."
It's not clear if the new explanation was meant to change his mind, but the only change between that and the fake explanation before is his statement that he wasn't paying under the first situation. So it may have been a negotiation tactic. Either way, if this was real she should explicitly agree that he isn't expected to pay for her friend and he should obviously not be so crass about it.
Why are you dating if you're that afraid?
"Anxious people deserve to die alone at home" ass comment.
Honestly, having a backup friend in a date, given that I'm getting a heads-up because surprises aren't very nice, would be a plus, i can meet a person, and their trusted friend, which is also important to understand where a person comes from, even though they're not likely to stay for long.
As someone with mostly female friends, all I can think is hell yeah potentially more friends! More natural conversations with an extra body, plus first date is more about vibes than anything so if a trusted friend improves the vibes then bring that trusted friend!
I was interested to look up the stats since I didn't know and there were downvotes, just gotta say the domestic violence statistics is both crazy high and confusing. It seems every site uses it's own selections of datasets to come up with way different statistics.
Going on a first date would have very little affect on this as abusive SOs don't usually show that side till later on in the relationship well after the first date phase.
If you think this is weird you probably shouldn't date. You're gonna see their friends at some point and it might as well be before you give too many fucks.
As a guy, you'd be a total idiot to agree. Single guy on a date with two girls is definitely going to make a fool out of himself and have a terrible evening. Call me sexist, blame social whatnotever for it but it's as sure as the night is dark. These two have known each other and longer than you so you're the outsider and there's that unspoken, inevirtable rivality between you and her best friend. No fucking change. BTW, I'd wonder what people might say if gender roles were reversed here. Lol... "I gotta bring my buddy. For safety."
You're sexist, but I will say I'm glad I took the offer when given it. The night ended up twice as nice, along with the next couple of months too.
Basically, go ahead and think that. More fun and good times for the rest of us, the two girls I was with that time included ;)
(In hindsight, it should've been way more obvious I was poly. But my sights were distracted at the time, and it's something that wasn't really talked about much back then)
I'd be sexist if I said it was women's nature and blah whatever. I'm sure it's more or less a social matter, nevermind that as far as I know it applies to pretty much any known culture, ancient or actual. The reason might be that humans are not so different actually, no matter what your fucking leaders might tell you. And you, Mr "pickup artist" might notice that I did not refer to the sort of occasion you're talking about. The situation the OP describes is obviously not an invitation to a menage a trois.
Fuck all that. If you're too afraid to meet a strange man in a public place, that's on you, and god only knows what other unreasonable fears you have.
EDIT: Y'all are socially retarded. No wonder you don't get laid till you're in your 20s.
PUBLIC PLACE. I saw women in public today. Many had bathing suits on, some with bikinis. Should they have hidden? Perhaps worn a burka? One time, and this was wild, I went off the trail without my wife and saw other women. I was all I could handle holding back from raping them. But, being a public place and all, I had to hold back.
Tell me you have no concept of the day to day experience of women without telling me you have no concept of the day to day experience of women, speed run edition
Going to a public place on a date is not something that you need to bring the whole crew for.
The way that he, (I'm assuming he), stated his response is inflammatory, but I agree with the concept behind it.
I cannot envision a path towards a healthy relationship that starts off with that much distrust, and if that were presented to me, I would assume that the two girls have conspired together to get free meals out of a simp rather than to actually start a relationship.
You know how women protect themselves? How they demonstrate their strength and ability to help themselves?
By bringing other people when meeting strangers who are statistically likely to be larger and stronger than they are, and 60% more likely to commit a violent crime!
If you can't figure out the difference between "I distrust unknown men" and "I distrust you" then you have a hell of a lot to learn, dude :/
This is how you get lied to. This is how you wind up shocked when they reveal later that they had a friend nearby. Because they can't even trust you not to judge them for prioritizing their own safety.
But that's a me thing, something you would know if you knew me.
You're not getting the point.
The point is, we don't know you.
And this may shock you, but people with bad intentions can just lie about things online. I'm not saying you are some psychopath who acts nice and caring online only to spike a drink and rape in person. Or that you're an abuser but you can't catch it yourself. I'm saying people don't know you, and therefore it can't be ruled out as a possibility. And so therefore the risk does indeed exist.
Not knowing is the point. Some people will therefore want to take more precautions when getting to know you even better in person, to minimize the risk further. Others won't think of the risk and just take it, or think it's not too risky, or not care of the risk, or even might think they can keep themselves safe, and won't meeting you in person alone in public.
No matter what though, the point is that initially, people don't know you. It's not an accusation directed at you, it's literally just the situation.
Good job projecting your personal preferences and dating strategy onto every other person in the world 👍
Also, good job failing to empathize with people who are regularly lied to and intentionally misled by people with negative intent, because "not all men" or what the fuck ever logical equivalent
Saying so once would have been fine. If he's OK with the Safety Friend and she wanted to pay her own way then there's no conflict.
But saying so twice? That's some insecurity right there, and it would have me reconsidering even if I was desperate both for a free meal and to get laid.
My personal limit for that is ~20$, anything less than that and within reason, I wont question buying anyone food. Calories are important and im not going to judge people that quickly, have a pizza.
I prefer to have that meal repaid in the future with an IOU or another meal rather dealing with money, also the social connections are more important.
On the flip side, if I never see that person again. 20$ well spent.
Where do you see that from the picture? If he wants to make sure he is not paying for the third wheel, there are ways to say that without sounding like a total dick. She, on the other hand, doesn't mention money or food at all. We simply do not know the whole story here.
I get it, I absolutely respect someone wanting to be safe, but i think it would also absolutely ruin the date for me. I just can't really interact the same way in a group as I do one on one. Either that, or I'd end upv mirroring both of them simultaneously and it would end up in a throuple.
I respect it, but i don't get it, and it would be a complete deal breaker for me. What do you think a person on a date in a public place is gonna do to you?
right, this is basically saying "i don't trust you not to spike my drink, take me to a second location, and rape me"
and maybe you shouldn't be online dating at all if that's where you start out from
But even then, no one needs to ask you out on a date to do that. Any time you go out in public by yourself that could happen just as easily. If you're that unreasonably fearful then i don't want to spend time with you
Most women don't make a habit of going out to bars alone, for good reason. It's a very real risk.
As a guy who's been roofied (presumably by accident, still don't know what happened) I sure as hell don't blame them.
I didn't say anything about a bar
Why should they trust some random dude they met on a dating app?
You act like that's some crazy fear, but it happens all the fucking time.
If you're that dismissive of other people's concerns, maybe you shouldn't be online dating at all.
no one says they have to, but they probably shouldn't, i dunno, go out on a date with them if they can't.
call it a crazy thought, but if i were premeditating sexual assault, i probably wouldn't choose someone who has my name, photos, phone number, and a history of correspondence to show motive. lol
Do you all have a different idea of what a date is than me or something? The point is to get to know someone you don't know yet. I guess if you were communicating for weeks beforehand this might seem weird, but that's making some big assumptions. You're acting like this woman has requested her friend accompany her for every moment of their ongoing relationship. It's wild to me to get so insecure about someone not fully trusting you this first time you meet. Trust is built over time, and it's not a slight against you if someone wants to protect themselves.
And yet, a casual examination of history shows that it happens all the time. And more often than not, charges never get brought up.
Now certainly the perceived frequency is far higher than the actual likelihood, but I don't blame anyone for not wanting to roll those dice.
it's 2025 and the typical use case when you meet someone on an app is to chat online, maybe do some video calls for a week+ to establish rapport and vet one another. by the time you meet up you should have some amount of chemistry and a feel for each other's values.
if you don't, the hinged thing to do is to not go out until you do. not to bring a third wheel lol.
apt metaphor considering it's a stupid fucking game to play. surely you can't blame anyone for choosing not to play it.
Why should he trust her?
You're coming from a place of internalized misandry and fear.
That doesn't make a healthy relationship.
Why even date men if you think they're all rapists?
Tbf you don't have to think all men are rapists to be careful, just that at least one is, and that you dont necessarily know how to spot one.
A person who chooses to take a minority of experiences and lets it influence all other experiences has internal work to do.
The moment you try to make that someone elses problem, then you aren't engaging with your biases, and that's not a sign of a healthy and mature person, that's not the type of person a lot of people want relationships with.
He shouldn't, and the fact that that idea doesn't even cross most men's minds is an enormous privilege.
I don't know about you, but I generally take a little time getting to know someone before I decide to trust them. Why on earth would you not?
What you don't seem to consider is the risk involved. When the consequence of misplaced trust is potentially rape or death, a small amount of caution is plainly warranted.
Nobody is out here assuming all men are rapists, that question is as irrelevant as it is idiotic. The point is that any man could be a rapist, and those odds sure as hell aren't small enough to just roll the dice on some rando you've never met.
It's easier for us (I'm assuming you're male too). I don't really have to care. The worst consequence we can reasonably expect is what? A too attached girl who won't leave you alone? When was the last time you went on a date with someone who could physically restrain you? It's not the fucking same, no matter how much you want to pretend it is.
There is no risk involved with going to a public place for a date.
At least no reasonable risk.
If you develop a phobia of men that is so bad that it prevents you from interacting with men, then that is YOU problem and you need to work that out.
Sorry, but you're coming from a place of ignorance here, but I do get it. I used to feel that way, but I've known too many women in my life who've experienced assaults in public places to pretend it's not a real issue. I've been roofied in public myself (wrong target, presumably) and have the privilege of only really having to worry about some scrapes and bruises. But the holes in my memory and understanding that that night could have easily gone far, far worse if I had been someone's target is something that will always stay with me.
This is stupid bullshit. Nobody has suggested anything like this and bad faith nonsense wastes everyone's time. Grow up. It's obvious you're taking this woman's caution as some kind of personal slight. It's not, and you should really examine where those feelings are coming from.
misandry doesn't real
Lazy troll
calling me names doesn't make misandry real
throuple goals!
Threesome. Corrected for you.
Nope. Throuple is dating, threesome is a one-time thing. Like if my wife and I have a girlfriend, we would be a throuple. And if we all sleep together, it would be a threesome. But saying “throuple=threesome” is like saying “couple=sex” when the two describe fundamentally different things. One is the relationship between people, and the other is just a physical act.
Nice condescending attitude though.
And here I thought OP just misspelled trouble.
Tbf, I was briefly in one, and it did very quickly turn into trouble.
throuple : threesome :: couple : hook-up
is this valid C code?
It could be valid C++ code within a function, if not for the last colon which isn't a unary nor binary operator
There's a unix/eunuchs joke in there somewhere.
nope, it's the verbal analogy puzzle format used by tests like the SAT.
This is very common in Asia. The first few (not) dates they bring friends and you can too. Eventually, she gives an indication that she wants to do something alone with you and that’s when the real dates begin.
You make a good point, but considering that the conversation is in English I don't think you'd be too far out of the pale to assume that this is not in Asia, and in most English-speaking countries it's not common to go on group dates before going on individual dates.
It does happen, and quite a bit, but not to the point where it's common, I would say it's at the very most uncommon.
This is the way.
I mean we have those too, they’re called double dates. Would have been less awkward if the lady here asked for one of those.
Double dates aware there is two couples. This sounds more like she wants to bring her friend on to make her feel more comfortable on a first date.
If you wanna be my lover...
Guy friends in asian also hold hands and hang on each others arms. Not really something you see in the west
Arranged marriage is also common in Asia
What an unprovoked comment.
Wherever you live, there are also many cultural issues that are equally unrelated to what I said.
This reeks of casual bigotry you should perhaps analyze the thought patterns that lead you to writing this.
If you bring a friend, they better be down for a 3 way if things go well. The only time this hapoened to me, was when two girls invited me to a 3way and then one of them chickened out, then got mad that I still fucked her friend. Like... That was the entire reason I was there!
She got mad because you fucked the wrong friend lol
She should have fucked him first then.
Everybody knows that in relationships it is first come first served.
First come, first served cum
Oddly disturbing
Oddly?
This tracks.
Did the one that chickened out at least watch you fuck the other one?
I had a girl bring a guy friend along on our first date without giving me a heads up for the same reason. I was like, ok that's a little weird but whatever. I'm certainly not going to give someone shit for doing something that makes them feel comfortable. Ended up chatting it up with the guy friend who turned out to be super cool.
So me and the girl end up seriously dating after a while and she later tells me that she spent most of our first date trying to subtly get her friend to leave so that she could spend more time with me.
Lol there's got to be a term that's the inverse of cockblocking. Maybe like cockenabling for something.
Wingman is the term you're looking for.
But in my date's opinion, he was clam jamming her!
But clam jamming is what you wanted to do, so he was helping,lol.
Ok thats nice
I had a girl do that on our first date. She was feeling insecure because she never dated online before. Once she felt comfortable with me, her friends left.
Like the guy defenitely comes off as a dick but also if you check out conventional social media you will see guys who talk about being expected to pay for not just the girl but also their friend, and you will see girls talk about how if she brings a friend for protection then the guy should pay for the friend too.
So many variables exist that we don’t know but for some people there an expectation that if a girl brings a friend the guy needs to pay for both and I wouldn’t default that to just misogyny
I had girls bring a friend with them when I asked them out on a date and it didn't even occur to me that I would pay for them. But also I wouldn't expect the friend to hang around the entire time either, once it turned out I wasn't trying to hurt anyone they generally went away.
Try and remember when you read this type of stuff that these people are the minority. These stories are not the norm and the much huger proportion of people going on dates that are more or less normal are not reporting their experiences because there's nothing notable really about them.
I’m not saying that is the norm but more so that it may not be just internal misogyny that causes the poster to reach their conclusion
Yes he was being a bit rude but it is surprisingly common for women to expect the men to pay for their friends and it is not at all unreasonable for him to put his foot down early and refuse before she even asks.
Being a little rude to a woman is not misogyny.
Nowhere in the screenshot does she ever say she expected the guy to pay for her friend.
He's getting mad about a made-up situation in his head. How do you actually deal with someone who's mad about something that hasn't happened.
The situation OP predicted wasn't the one where she asks up front.
It's cool that you haven't been online dating lately and all but your ignorance of trends is not my problem.
Yes that situation would make you racist, but that's also not even remotely comparable in any way so it's pointless to bring up. Go touch grass.
She NEVER said that she didn't expect him to pay, she just ignored it, and kept justifying why it was okay to bring her friend. She fully expected him to pay for dinner and drinks for both.
These girls are predators, and they tried to treat him like a chump, and people are pissed because he showed some self-respect.
You've been successfully baited by a fake screenshot and are displaying misogyny.
It's not misogyny to recognize and acknowledge that women can be bad people, just like men can be. In fact, recognizing that women are just regular people, is the opposite of misogyny.
I don't think all women are perfect (and never said such), but this post is 100% a fake screenshot that's misogynistic rage bait.
Perfect. That's when you strike
I can almost understand her reaction considering it was an online dating thing
Ive had a couple of times where one of my girl friends has asked me if I could be at a bar they were going on a date at to keep an eye on it in the background. Not like sit down or get to know the guy or anything, just keep an eye out and be there if things go south.
Several times ive known the guy as well. One time I accidentally recruited the date to help me keep an eye on my friend. Had no idea the 2 had never actually met (grew up a grade apart, been in the same social circles for decades)
Is it still normalized that the man should pay the date?
What year is it? 1825?
A lot of women consider it a deal breaker to this day
I call those women... never. Had a girl turn up with a friend, everyone paid for their own drinks. And this was in the early 00s.
If I remember correctly (it's been over 16 years), my wife suggested separate checks the first time, and I told her I'd pay this time and she could get the next one if she wanted to go out again.
I think I still ended up paying for the next one (or separate checks), but that wasn't a cultural norm thing, I just get uncomfortable with other people paying for me.
My current fiance said she almost didn't want to go on a second date with me because I wanted to go Dutch on our first date. She still tells me to this day that I'm lucky I was cute.
what does go dutch mean
Butt stuff
???
Sorry, was funny to me at the time! It's splitting the bill
Date pays for their stuff, you pay for your own. Basically, separate tabs.
To be clear, I would have paid if she had asked me to at the time. When the bill came for the food, I asked if she wanted separate or together, but my phrasing made it sound like I wanted to split it and she said that was fine. Whoops.
Don't worry, she's making up for lost time. I pay for almost everything when we go out now 😅
Humans are weird. I'm glad we penguins aren't as complicated.
If i invite someone out to dinner I pay. If someone invites me out to dinner I expect them to pay. However, I think in general in the US most men and women expect the man to pay.
...they're the same picture. Seriously, given the general dynamics of how straight dating actually ends up working most of the time IRL, these are basically equivalent statements, because the man is also generally expected to be the one to do the asking.
Agreed. Most of the time the man is expected to do the asking. From my personal, not reflective of the rest of society, experience...when dating if I asked someone out id plan the date and pay. It was usually second date when dating men, or once when I had to cancel on a first date I then asked the person out and arranged the first date.
The only time I ever felt a bit grumpy about paying was when the other person couldn't decide between two dishes. I told them to order both, and I assumed theyd take their leftovers. They ate a tiny bit of each and didn't take any home. Thats just wasteful. There was no next date.
This is an outdated expectation, although it could also be considered respectful on a date.
I've heard that in restaurants in the USA you often give your credit card and they scan it and return it because they don't have portable terminals. I've also heard that it's often returned to the man regardless of name on card / who gave it. Both of these seem very outdated.
Smart servers just put the check and the card between the people if it’s not obvious who’s paying. I’m a great test case for this because my spouse and I both happen to have first names that could belong to a man or a woman.
It’s pretty much random which one of us pays because we pool our money anyway.
Often they drop the bill in the little book and we stick the card in the end of it and put it back on the end of the table, they come by, run the card and then come back….
you can see the fear in their eyes sometimes, like “oh shit. This could be either one of them… 50/50 chance I annoy the one who’s writing the tip”.
We’ve both worked service industry so we don’t care at all and tip well either way but it’s pretty funny to see the realization sometimes.
Oh and, if it’s two people on a date (not a boring old married couple like us eating dinner) and there’s only one bill… 9/10 it’s the guy paying.
If it were the girl shouldn't have any choice.
Now they have things called rights and stuff
I had a girl ask if it was OK to bring a friend once, I said it was fine. She ended up coming alone anyway.
You showed a green flag by saying yes, so she probably felt safe enough.
Or a serial killer that was only interested in double kills
Everyone loves mind games :3
Its not really a mind game IMO, if he had said no she might've still gone with a friend. It's not a test it's literally just wanting a clue re safety.
Have you considered fearing all men isn't a healthy way for an adult to live? And how is that level of prejudice shows through this action?
Adults can go on a date in public by themselves. There are some men who will be hurt but still tolerant, and there will be some that find it offensive.
So much context missing to tell if the guy did good or not. He could be being a prick or just standing up for himself. In any case, this is definitely100% both fake but plus moreover besides also gay.
Going to eat as a first date is bad anyways. Should do something where you are a not forced to sit in front of each other for a fixed amount of time. Why not go for a walk in a park, take a coffee or other things that are more "open".
Dutch?
Swamp Germans
Means you pay for your own meal. Not sure why it where but probably some racist thing, I assume
More of a cultural thing, I think. From what I've gathered from a friend that lives in the Netherlands the dutch are pretty serious about paying for their own meals and getting people to pay for theirs. I even remember seeing a sketch made by some dutch people where one gives a bite of their sandwich to a coworker or something and then they tell the coworker that they're owed x amount for it.
it's not about race, but nation. it's probably xenophobic
I've heard it all my life. I just assumed the Dutch were cheap, and won't pay for anyone else but themselves.
It wouldn't bother me if somebody wanted to bring a friend on a date. However, I would communicate that it would change the dynamic into a "hangout" over a traditional "date" for me. The difference being that a date carries romantic intent and a hangout is for the sake of connecting with others without romantic expectations. Also, a hangout means everybody pays for themselves.
This takes the pressure off by lowering the stakes since it's now just a casual hangout between peers. It also has the benefit of making the third not feel excluded as a third wheel but a welcome part of the group.
Last time a chick brought a friend with her, I got on better with the friend... And I went home with the friend. Pro tip, if youre bringing a friend. Dont make it a friend thats better to talk to than you are.
I say get it while you can, you don't turn your back on love, no no no. -Janis Joplin
Or do.
I had a girl cancel and reschedule our first date shortly before we were supposed to meet up. That date happened, and she confided in me that she'd done that on purpose to gauge my reaction and general demeanor before actually coming out to meet me. I respected that move, and I think I would have been okay with her bringing a friend instead, as long as it was just the once.
Anyway, that was eight years ago, we're married now.
Nice that it worked out but deception and playing games would be a huge red flag for me. Nothing about that instance in particular, it’s just that I’d always wonder “is this situation for real or another trick?”
Maybe the immediate followup fixes it. You were strangers then after all. And after eight years of course you know what you’re working with haha
Damnit now I’m just rambling to myself, carry on!
Or does he?
Look at this dude... Being happy
Quick! Scan his post and comment history to find something to bring him down!!
Weakness identified!
I bet he misses a lot of MtG sessions. 😏
Who do you think you are, flexing your relationship like that.
You're a dumbass for playing along with such insane bullshit but I'm glad it worked out for you.
I don't think "begrudging women a single test to see if someone is the type to explode over a single inconvenience" is the right hill to stick your flag on.
Trying to start a relationship by playing games is very much a good place to find red flags.
It might seem like a game to you but that's someone's life.
Do you have an alternative for how they should determine if a potential partner is a danger? Besides hiring a private detective or rolling the dice by finding out after they're invested?
If you can't trust a stranger even a little bit then don't date complete strangers. Limit your dating pool to your circle of friends, friends of friends, people you already know or that your friends vouch for.
That is so utterly devoid of empathy that I have nothing left to say to you.
Yeah, lack of empathy on her side, I know. If you think your date is a potential rapist/murderer/... then why are you trying to date them?
Yeah, I'd say it's a red flag except there are a ton of crazies that this quickly filters for them and keeps them safe from.
So in an ideal world it would be bad, but it makes sense in the one we live in.
Mr. Fancy-look-at-me-i'm-married-pants
"Can I bring a friend?"
"Um, I'd rather they stayed home. And well, I didn't want to say anything earlier, but I kind of wanted to stay home, too. You have fun though!"
good answer
I'm cool with someone deciding to do this.
I mean, I'll decide not to go on the date, but that you do you.
Your lack of ability to judge my character leading up to the date, and the general sense of paranoia leading to a decision like this, aren't qualities I'm looking for in a partner.
Neither is starting things from a place of outright suspicion. Like. I'm not judging. I just have zero interest.
I would understand it if they are going to someplace private, like the apartment or a dark alley at midnight, but who the hell goes to those places on a first date? I'm not freaking out about a guy asking me to a coffee date at 1000 hours in the middle of a city on a saturday.
They might've had one (or several) bad experiences and this is a trauma response, but even in that case, I don't think it's unreasonable to say "yeah sure they'll pay their own way, I just feel safer if we have a second pair of eyes I trust in the restaurant/cafe/etc with us". Like, you don't gotta be at the table, but I kinda get it for the first date or two being "hey I trust this person, mind if they tag along and grab a drink at the bar to be my watchman or whatever".
You dont even have to ask. Friend can just sit at the bar, or they can bring a second person and just be at a different table. If this is a trauma response, there are ways to make in nonintrusive. Plus, if the other person doesnt know you brought back up, theyre going to be more themselves, and youll see if theyre a sleeze or not sooner. Its not hard to pretend to not be a sleeze while youre being watched then turn it around immediately when youre not.
That's a personal issue that an individual needs to work out before dating then.
Mature people don't need to bring a babysitter for their date.
Amen
Can i bring a friend too, otherwise it's an uneven fight.
Just skip that and send only your friends on a date.
I finally feel like I can write "dating" off my bucket list.
Just by subcotracting it.
If you're pregnant that also counts as two
"Good idea, no problem. I'm also going to be bringing my ex along. Should be fun"
There's a non insignificant amount of women dating only for free meals, and a lot of them expect men to pay for any number of friends. A lot of guys have opted for lower cost or zero cost first dates, like walks to screen for this.
Either this person in incredibly tactless or this is some kind of incel meme shitpost.
Either way, whomever is passing it around seems to have a bone to pick.
Idk, really depends on the dynamic between them all. If they're broke college kids and he's an older person with a stable job and surplus cash? If he's picking the restaurant to impress her, knowing she can't afford it? If he already offered up thread in order to entice her out?
But that makes the "date" feel more like a Sugar Baby relationship than a proper date. Also might explain why she feels the need to bring a friend.
Anyone afraid to go to an agreed meeting in a public place NEEDING a friend along is beyond weird
The friend isn't there for when the date is in the public space. The friend is there for after to ensure the girl gets home safe.
Wtf. No. They are just scared.
I think the implied weirdness is that, if you're scared, why even agree to the date in the first place?
I do not know if you noticed, but people want to date. She probably want to go AND be safe.
Well yeah, but bringing an extra for a dinner date is weird. I've brought extra people along to meet the person I'll be eating with and confirm my location. Having an extra person suddenly in the date dynamic kills the dynamic.
Then just say no and don't go in a date with her. If her safety is such a big inconvenience for you, it's not a good match.
It's ONE date. They are just trying to make sure you are not a rapist. I'd say they are likely to leave as soon as things look like they are going smoothly. Next date she shouldn't be there. If she is invited again then don't go. If on a second date she is still not sure if you are dangerous but wants to go out anyway, something might be wrong
Okay, let's take a step back. I never said it's an inconvenience, i just said it's weird. Please don't assume things about me just because we disagree about something.
I even mentioned alternatives I've personally used to ensure my safety AND not change the date dynamic. Everyone should ensure their own safety, and if that's what it takes for some people then fine but lets not tack on assumptions to force a narrative.
It's weird to have someone sit in on a dinner date to me. Full stop. Am i gonna trip about it? Probably not. You do you boo.
This happened to me, but we all went back to my apartment and played Smash Bros. I did not get laid and I have no regrets.
Man, I think I'd prefer that outcome. Getting laid is easy compared to finding fun people to game with
What character did you play?
Fox only. No items. Final Destination.
If this had happened to me there's a zero percent chance I wouldn't have taken a shot at the threesome at some point.
Opportunities don't come along like this every day.
I'd be up for a few dates where the girl brings her friends, as long as she makes it clear beforehand that they're coming. But not a last minute "by the way, my friends are coming."
I don't mind meeting more new people.
Grey text is looking out for their safety, good for them. Blue text is clearly communicating their boundaries, good for them. Neither is phrasing their needs as I would, but that's small potatoes. I'd rather date either of these people than most of the ones replying in this thread.
You are not wrong. But I think you are being an asshole about it. You could have said "that is cool, but I'm not paying for her food" and is it. No need to be rude.
I remember when a date auction at my college worked this way, the girls always came in pairs. When I thought about it afterwards, it made sense, but it still made me feel just apprehensive enough in the moment - being outnumbered in a moment of social vulnerability - that I didn’t bid on anyone.
The idea of paying for a date is weird to me but in that scenario I guess the bright side is twice as many girls to potentially hit it off with at once.
If it matters, the money in that case was going to a charitable cause, not the people you'd date.
Yeah, I get it, it's still kind of weird to me. If I have to pay for a woman's attention who wouldn't be interested otherwise I'd just assume not bother her with it.
It would be such an ego booster watching people bid higher and higher on you. On the flip side you could end up the Reject section.
Who gives out money on a first date? Go have walk somewhere.
You could have just missed your shot at a threesome. Way to go, 😄
Threesome? If I wanted to disappoint two people at the same time I’d just have dinner with my parents.
If she's bringing her friend for safety, there was no shot to begin with
you watch way too much porn
Found the person that’s never had a threesome
Sex does happen in real life, too.
I didn't say sex doesn't happen in real life. I said you watch too much porn.
The mind of a man who thinks that a random girl tagging along with a potential first date will agree to have a threesome let alone the first date themselves will agree to normal sex is... a young naive mind who believes that everyone is having spontaneous group sex.
Your mind immediately went to that? Why?
From my POV
As someone who had a threesome exactly like this scenario played out.
You’re the one who is naive.
Spontaneous group sex happens in real life, all the time. There are many people who do not seek it out. That is valid. There are also people who do seek it out.
Unfortunately the difference between those two types of people defines the lens through which you define a “naive” person.
Hey man just because you got a threesome doesn't mean its common.
Spontaneous group happens in real life -> I agree.
All the time -> I don't agree
But that doesn't mean they get it "all the time"
And your lens is too much caliberated to view every encounter as an opportunity even if you don't know whether the OP is actually into it or not, thus projecting your expectations into the scenario.
I don’t mind if we disagree, but as someone who deeply loves and is a part of my local lifestyle community, this conversation feels more personal.
Because you either get it, Or you just don’t.
There are literal hundreds of people in my local lifestyle community. I’ve been to local events that they cap at 300 for attendance quantity. It’s not abnormal at these events to have cuddle puddles of 5+ people together. Strangers. Just met.
There are folks that I know very well, That are getting laid by groups of strangers (often 3 or more in a group) every single day, outside of these organized events. This is not an exaggeration. Group sex happens all the time. Period.
The reason you believe people aren’t always having group sex is because you’ve never had the opportunity to consistently grasp it. Your perspective doesn’t seem to reflect relevant experience, so it’s hard to believe for you.
Your point of view is naive to people that actually live the bdsm, swinger, and kink lifestyle(s) 24/7.
I think if someone implied they were bringing someone without at least asking, as this person did, I would match their rude energy and say "I did not agree to that, so here are my boundaries."
The way the other party phrased it would annoy the shit out of me. 'I'm bringing my best friend." Ok, so why don't you date them? Causes way more friction than asking "Hey, I know it's unconventional but I would like a friend to be there just for my safety since we don't know eachother yet."
It took me far too long to realize what "apeach" or "abutt" meant
Clbuttic mistake to make
I'm open to a threesome. Op failed
Pretty much. OP being a real dick for no reason with that last sentence.
Just ask if you're okay with dating both in that scenario.
That was definitely my thought reading it but also it would be a thought that I wouldn't articulate because that's not what's actually happening, she just wants a friend to make sure I'm not creepy. So that definitely wouldn't be the right thing to say.
Although if it was the right kind of person and the date was going well I suppose it could come off as a good joke depending on the person
That would have been the move. "Is she attractive?" Result would be she tells you to get lost which is fine. Or 3 people have a great time that you don't mind financing
I could never feel safe on a date with someone who censors swear words in screenshots they post to the fucking Internet.
Plot twist. Mate drops the og girl and falls for her friend.
You gotta make sure she's not trying to back-and-switch you into a polycule!
Do it and then fuck her metamour
No but I am old.
What an a🍑
Ass
I'm still fucked off that this is where we're headed as a society - computers deciding what obscenities we can handle
So fucking true like why the fuck do all of these damn corposhit platforms fucking hate random ass words just because advertisers are scared as fuck of having their crap advertised next to them?? I've actually fucking seen these cunts censor "stole" and "bullet", what is this damn bullshit?? Shut your fucking asses up stupid corpobitches and stop fucking whining about random fucking words!! Random shitty ads that people block anyway are your fucking reason for annoying the hell out of people who happen to use these words? I will fucking kill these fucks with a fucking gun - they even censor "kill" and "gun" because advertisers are SO FUCKING FRAGILE that they cannot take any fucking mention of death or violence. The shitty enshittified shit platforms owned by billionaire shitheads are ASS and the fediverse's war against them needs to be fucking accelerated or we won't be allowed to say "glass" anymore because shards of glass can fucking hurt you and the jackasses will think that this means that the damn word will need censoring into oblivion. Or maybe the fragile fuckers will lobby to make using these fucking words illegal like the damn UAE has it. Fuck you corpobitches 🖕🖕🖕
::: spoiler meme with stole censored :::
Hey, you can't say "hell", that's a bad word >:c
She would lucky if I even showed up. NGL if there is that much distrust from the get, I'm not into it.
Mine was not a comment about the contents of the discussion, merely about the censorship of the word ASS
Fair enough
Has a date where some chick brought her friend ever resulted in a good date?
Sounds like setting yourself up to create conflict in a relationship that doesn't even exist yet.
There's no other way to read this besides "I think you are a horrible person so I need protection on our public date, why am I going on a date with a horrible person? I wanted dinner"
That's how it reads every single time, and men are expected to be cool with it, or they are proven to be horrible like previously assumed.
It doesn't matter if they made themseves afraid of men or not. It's a set of ideals rooted in misandry, and it doesn't help women or men.
Yes. As a dude I recognize that a woman going on a date with a random person is and feels dangerous to most women. I am more than happy to go on a group date or hang out with friends she feels comfortable with for first bit of getting to know a person for like a month to first couple dates. Then once we are looking to know each other closer we can have more private dates. That being said I shouldn't be expected to pay for anyone's experience but my own in these dates or hangouts. Maybe my dates but even still definitely not the friends.
I recognize that a minority of men are assholes.
There's no mature reason for a friend to come on the date in a public place.
The reasons stated are that men are violent animals and need to be vetted and I need physical protection from them even in public.
That's not valid
It's a set of ideals rooted in misandry, and it doesn't help women or men.
WTF are you on about, mate?
There absolutely is another way to read it and it's: "there are lots of horrible people and I wanted to make sure you're not one of them".
I guess you reacting to this post in that way puts you bang in the middle of one of those two categories...
What are you on about?
I just don't think it's healthy to assume every man is a psycho and then make them prove otherwise, especially if you want to try dating them.
Luckily, I'm a married lesbian so i don't have to deal with this stupid shit.
It's a bit difficult to determine just from online interactions, don't you think?
"Dating" doesn't mean what it used to mean. These days "dating" means "I swiped right, we talked for an hour or two and now we're meeting for the first time".
As long as the other person is upfront about it, I wouldn't be weirded out if they brought a friend to feel better, honestly, no fucking clue who would have an issue with that. Because it's not about "all men", it's about "I'm meeting a stranger".
If you're the person who sees that situation as an attack, you're better off leaving the other party alone.
I mean, that’s sure one way. I have never used a dating app, been on plenty of dates, and am in my 20’s.
Nah it's better if people who want to date act like adults.
There are some men who don't mind being profiled, but being treated like a predator by default in a safe setting is insulting.
I don't know about you, but when someone even implies I might be a terrible person I get extremely offended
Yeah, I don't, because I have enough empathy and intelligence to realise that people who don't know me... well, don't know me - and there absolutely are dangerous people out there.
In short: pull your head out of your arse, it's not about you.
Sure, the danger is real and that people need to protect themselves
It's also incredibly offensive to do it directly.
The polite thing to do is make being safe a matter of course. It's very normal to meet in public, it's normal to do checkup texts, it's fine to do a group activity if it's a group activity. We've spent decades normalizing subtle ways to do this
There's a degree of social hygiene necessary, or society falls apart.
Only if you're incredibly insecure about yourself.
Overall - I agree, to certain degree. In my opinion, however, society is already "falling apart" due to how social media trains younger people for immediate gratification, everything is fast. Dating is also fast, and people don't want to "waste time" on "incompatible people".
Dating these days is "let's have a date and see what happens", not "let's get to know each other and see if we want to date".
Also, lots of people are pretty lonely, so "group activity" is not possible for them.
Bullshit. This is hardwired into our brains. False accusations hurt, but only when you can't imagine yourself doing what you're accused of.
If someone doesn't bristle at being treated like a wild animal, that's a huge red flag. They're not confident, either they're manipulative or they could see themselves warranting the protection. They're probably not an immediate threat, but that is what a future abuser looks like
And what good is having a friend next to you as opposed to nearby? That's not safer... What, do you think they're going to grab someone out of the coffee shop and run?
There's lots of normal reasons to have someone you know nearby. You can get dropped off and picked up, have a friend in the area doing things. If you have bad vibes, stay in the damn coffee shop and have your friend come in and get a drink.
You can go somewhere you know a worker. You can get to know a place and spend time with the staff so you have a safe ground.
I've had someone introduce me to their co-workers before walking to a cafe a few doors down, that was a positive experience, because it was very friendly and I could feel I just passed a bunch of vibe checks... I didn't even consider that there was a handful of people who saw my face and had eyes on the car I drove up in nearby until much later
That's about as safe as you could ever be, and it wasn't offensive at all, because it was natural and affirmative. It feels good when people notice I'm a good person, and I think having a community is cool.
At the end of the day, no one is ever truly safe, but having community around is how you make yourself safer.
And I really do mean the manipulator thing, if someone doesn't react at all to an implication like that, that's a red flag... Honest people get angry at accusations, guilty ones get calm, manipulators use that information
Being this weird about not paying would be an instant no for me. Around here it's the norm that everyone pays for themselves on a date and even implying that someone will want you to pay for them is pretty rude. The only non-rude way to pay for the entire date is to ask for the full check when the waiter comes before the other person can ask to split it. Usually with the line "I'll take this one, next one's on you ;)" which doesn't really mean that the next one's on them but is more about the implication that there will be a next date.
...can you read? I'm saying that the default is that everyone pays for themselves. Paying for someone else is a niche situation that you need to actively seek out.
Obviously not for the person who replied to you, nor for many others
Is she hot? Because if I'm paying for the friend, too, then I'm expecting a threesome at the end.
Nah, I'm way older than that guy
At the very least you're doubling your chances of somebody liking you.
And that would be a good investment. Perfect way to find out if you are more sexually compatible with the "friend".
It's a test and you failed it by being weird and strange and obnoxious, just let her bring her friend it's literally not a downside for you. She'll feel more comfortable by bringing her friend which can only be a good thing for you.
I don't really consider myself to be particularly spectacular in the social department but even I wouldn't have reacted like that. To be crass, why wouldn't you want more girls on your date?
Dude never said friend can't come, dude just said he's not covering her bill.
I'm fine with a girl bringing a buddy or backup but don't make it a third wheel unless your intention from the start is a menage trios.
ménage à trois?
yeah my keyboard doesn't have those funni french accents.
that's excusable, but you also lost "a" and butchered "trois" 😘
Maybe I just to respect the French language /s
What?
Literally: a household of three. A thrupple in modern parlance
the last 2 words in the parent comment should have been these 3
Yeah, but I still have no idea what its meant to be
It means a threesome. I think in French it's technically "household of three"? But it's meaning has always been threesome.
Dude showed he's annoyed seeing girl seeks protection, by calling the friend RoboCop, and implied she might have wanted him to pay for both, putting carriage before horses.
What you say literally can often show what you think inside, and in a first date scenario every sign will be interpreted
For example, not showing much respect for the female need for protection on a first date can mean dude doesn't think women have reason to feel unsafe
Your read of the situation is pretty tilted, ngl.
He said he's not paying for her, the implication is they are going out to eat for a date. Not chilling at home or somewhere in private. Bestie can chill somewhere else other than at the table the date is happening at, if homegirl feels threatened or scared of the guy she can signal for bestie.
I can totally understand wanting a trusted friend around to ensure a date goes fine, hell ive done it several times for girls and guys I'm friends with. But that safety net can stay in the background and doesn't need to be at the table interfering with the date. But never once did I expect the friend I was wingmanning for to buy me food or drink while I hovered in the background. All homegirl had to say is bestie is paying their own way or homegirl was gonna give her some money.
She's covering her butt, understandably, by bringing a friend, and he's covering his by stating he's not paying for the third wheel.
Mh is he not showing he's annoyed by her friend tagging along? And why bringing money up?
I mean, if it were happening to me, where I live, I wouldn't even think she was going to expect me to pay not even for herself, and if she ends up expecting or pressuring me, I just know she's not the one. What's there to be scared of? Worst case scenario I just leave my part on the table and go away
I know of memes about women going to first fates just to have nights out without paying, but it's very far from what I see happening where I live, and I suspect it's just manophase echo chamberism. Because, again, one can just put their part on the table and leave, and perhaps date within one's social circle so to avoid this kind of social distortion
To be fair to him, his first response was just that he wasn't paying for her. Her reply to that was about how she invited her for protection but she did not say anything about how they didn't expect him to pay.
I see... Yeah I'm pretty sure that in such a case, where I'm expected to pay, not even asked to, I would definitely cancel, be it one or two people... This is so uncommon in m6 experience that I didn't even think that could be a case
Yeah, this definitely gives made up ragebait vibes. I was just commenting based off the content.
They're having a date in a public restaurant, she doesn't need "protection." She can have her friend call mid-date to offer a bail-out excuse, like everyone else does.
The only reason for her friend to be present is to scam a free meal and a bunch of expensive drinks. These girls are predators, get a real date. There are plenty of women who would love to go out to dinner on a real date, not just to scam a free dinner and drinks from some chump.
Yeah... you see, exactly because people who think like you exist, women have to look for clues right away that they are not going to date a misogynist...
Women need protection when meeting with strangers, basically all women have life experience that make them feel they need it. I'm sure you as a guy are able to take no for an answer, but your date doesn't know that yet, and it takes just one guy who doesn't to ruin a woman's dating experience and possibly her health and safety.
I do know women who don't feel that need, but that's mostly because they are ignoring their own and their friends' past experiences. It's their choice ofc, but it's universally accepted among women that it's not a strange thing to do, in fact is the safest thing to do.
If some women then abuse that need to try to freeride, it's another discussion, and as a guy I would simply drop the date if I were in that situation. But the need exists, it is valid, and not validating this need to your date will raise a red flag.
No, it's not "another discussion," it's the very discussion that OP wanted to have when he wrote his post.
Everybody wants to talk about women looking for "Red Flags," and I don't blame that at all for doing that, but men have just as much right to look for Red Flags as well. They may not be the same Red Flags, women obviously have more safety concerns (justifiably), but men have to watch out for women whose only interest in dating them is to financially exploit them, which is a far more common occurrence than a sexual assault.
We all have the right to refuse to be exploited. She can insist on bringing a chaperone, but he shouldn't be expected to pay for her, and if that's a deal-breaker, than it becomes pretty clear that they were only interested in taking advantage of him.
I just really have to say that in my experience and for what friends have told, that is simply not a realistic concern in my mind
As for it being "more common" than abuse, I just have your word for it. And I simply don't believe it. Because female friends talking about sexual abuse is something both more taboo and more frequently happened to me, than male friends telling me they had to jump a date because the girl was a gold digger.
Hence our difference of views on this
Ofc my suggestion is not to date people until you know them a bit, if that's so common in your life.
If you believed the person was only coming along to heckle you or otherwise be annoying, I can imagine why.
But why go out at all on these terms?
This play is regarded as a common ploy.
The test was "Is this guy so desperately horny that he'll pay for meals and drinks for two, even though neither one of us has any intention of having sex with him, and having a friend along makes it even easier to steer the conversation away from any path that might lead to sex?"
Yeah, that's a test you want to fail. Those women are predators.
honestly.. I would be happy to have more people just for the sake of meeting them and having a fun friends day out. Does not need to be a date. We could just hangout.
Then join a club or something.
Dating isn't about making friends.
Yeah, that's great if it's just a hang, but that's not what this was. This was clearly supposed to be a serious date, the kind that hopefully leads to a relationship, sex, a life together, marriage, kids, retirement, etc.
If I'm taking a girl out for a nice romantic dinner, I'm expecting a certain sort of meeting, and I'm willing to pay significantly more to create the atmosphere in which we can open up and start to explore the idea of a future.
But if she decides she wants to bring a friend, that changes everything. Now the entire dynamic of the date has changed, and we can't have the kind of personal conversation I'd like to have (and she would want to have, if she was being honest about accepting the date), and splurging on a fancy restaurant is a waste.
If she decides that she'd rather have a fun, casual hang-out, that's fine, but I was looking for a serious date. I'm not willing to spend the same kind of money on a friendly hang-out as I would on a serious date, and it's pretty offensive that my date has unilaterally decided that we won't be having a serious date, we will have a casual hang-out with her friend, but they still expect me to pay for it as if it was that original serious date.
She did not accept this date in Good Faith, and he is under no obligation to indulge her disingenuous behavior. He's actually lucky that her true nature became apparent BEFORE he spent a lot of money on her. Save that for a girl who isn't a predator.
Yeah the problem with that conspiracy theory of yours is nowhere in the text does it ever even suggest that there is any expectation that the friend would have to be paid for. Or indeed that the guy in is even being expected to pay for the girls meal.
It also sounds like a first date, which is not something that is usually all that elaborate, so if this is some evil trap to get free food it's going to basically be a taco maybe a sandwich something not something worth the effort.
Do you understand how conversation works?
When he says he isn't paying for the friend, the proper thing to say is that he isn't expected to pay for her, she's just there for safety.
But she doesn't say that, she justifies her friend's presence, which isn't his issue. His problem is paying for it, and she carefully avoids confirming that she doesn't expect that, which means that she DOES expect that.
Not once did she tell him that he wouldn't have to pay for her friend, despite him being very clear that was his objection. She expected him to pay.
"Awe"?
It looks like I’m going on a double date.
Uh oh, are we doing an /r/SipsTea here now?
Oh God I hope not.
Can we just make a community called IHateWomen and have them migrate there?
Not only does that sound like a better date to me, but I also make it pretty clear upfront we split the cost of the date. Like, I'm pretty good at winning over friends and they end up getting my back during a misunderstanding (speaking from experience lol).
From now on your friend will always be referred to as Ed 209.
Holy shit..... HA!
Doubling down on not paying for her food when there was no indication that he was expected to was definitely strange. It's a perfectly fine thing to be uncomfortable with, don't try and force the fault on her.
not paying for the random 3rd wheels food... yeah, triple down on it. make it VERY clear you aren't paying for someone whom you aren't wanting to actually meet or invited in the first place.
This was my impression too. The girl is probably thinking she dodged a bullet. It's a very aggressive response when no one actually asked him to pay.
He doubled down on it when it wasn't really acknowledged. After he said he wasn't paying, she responded with an explanation for why her friend was coming. I mean she did say ok, but that might be agreement or just a way to move on the conversation. Like, "Ok, but what if I told you..."
It's not clear if the new explanation was meant to change his mind, but the only change between that and the fake explanation before is his statement that he wasn't paying under the first situation. So it may have been a negotiation tactic. Either way, if this was real she should explicitly agree that he isn't expected to pay for her friend and he should obviously not be so crass about it.
Wow, that would be instant end the date for me.
Why are you dating if you're that afraid? And frankly, how will you work up enough courage to leave the house?
Honestly, having a backup friend in a date, given that I'm getting a heads-up because surprises aren't very nice, would be a plus, i can meet a person, and their trusted friend, which is also important to understand where a person comes from, even though they're not likely to stay for long.
As someone with mostly female friends, all I can think is hell yeah potentially more friends! More natural conversations with an extra body, plus first date is more about vibes than anything so if a trusted friend improves the vibes then bring that trusted friend!
Honestly, when you look at domestic violence statistics, youre lucky girls are willing to go out on dates with strangers.
All that domestic violence that happens on coffee house first dates.
How is a domestic anything statistic relevant outside the domum?
But domestic violence isn't from strangers
I was interested to look up the stats since I didn't know and there were downvotes, just gotta say the domestic violence statistics is both crazy high and confusing. It seems every site uses it's own selections of datasets to come up with way different statistics.
Going on a first date would have very little affect on this as abusive SOs don't usually show that side till later on in the relationship well after the first date phase.
If you think this is weird you probably shouldn't date. You're gonna see their friends at some point and it might as well be before you give too many fucks.
As a guy, you'd be a total idiot to agree. Single guy on a date with two girls is definitely going to make a fool out of himself and have a terrible evening. Call me sexist, blame social whatnotever for it but it's as sure as the night is dark. These two have known each other and longer than you so you're the outsider and there's that unspoken, inevirtable rivality between you and her best friend. No fucking change. BTW, I'd wonder what people might say if gender roles were reversed here. Lol... "I gotta bring my buddy. For safety."
You're sexist, but I will say I'm glad I took the offer when given it. The night ended up twice as nice, along with the next couple of months too.
Basically, go ahead and think that. More fun and good times for the rest of us, the two girls I was with that time included ;)
(In hindsight, it should've been way more obvious I was poly. But my sights were distracted at the time, and it's something that wasn't really talked about much back then)
I'd be sexist if I said it was women's nature and blah whatever. I'm sure it's more or less a social matter, nevermind that as far as I know it applies to pretty much any known culture, ancient or actual. The reason might be that humans are not so different actually, no matter what your fucking leaders might tell you. And you, Mr "pickup artist" might notice that I did not refer to the sort of occasion you're talking about. The situation the OP describes is obviously not an invitation to a menage a trois.
I'd agree easily. I'd even pay. Especially if her friend is single too. Doubles the odds and probably more fun conversation.
Fuck all that. If you're too afraid to meet a strange man in a public place, that's on you, and god only knows what other unreasonable fears you have.
EDIT: Y'all are socially retarded. No wonder you don't get laid till you're in your 20s.
PUBLIC PLACE. I saw women in public today. Many had bathing suits on, some with bikinis. Should they have hidden? Perhaps worn a burka? One time, and this was wild, I went off the trail without my wife and saw other women. I was all I could handle holding back from raping them. But, being a public place and all, I had to hold back.
Tell me you have no concept of the day to day experience of women without telling me you have no concept of the day to day experience of women, speed run edition
Women are not fragile helpless creatures.
Going to a public place on a date is not something that you need to bring the whole crew for.
The way that he, (I'm assuming he), stated his response is inflammatory, but I agree with the concept behind it.
I cannot envision a path towards a healthy relationship that starts off with that much distrust, and if that were presented to me, I would assume that the two girls have conspired together to get free meals out of a simp rather than to actually start a relationship.
So that would be why it's a no-go for me.
You're right. They're not fragile and helpless.
You know how women protect themselves? How they demonstrate their strength and ability to help themselves?
By bringing other people when meeting strangers who are statistically likely to be larger and stronger than they are, and 60% more likely to commit a violent crime!
If you can't figure out the difference between "I distrust unknown men" and "I distrust you" then you have a hell of a lot to learn, dude :/
This is how you get lied to. This is how you wind up shocked when they reveal later that they had a friend nearby. Because they can't even trust you not to judge them for prioritizing their own safety.
You are the problem.
You don't know me at all, so accusing me of being the problem is silly, lol.
Exactly. They don't know you at all either.
I don't go on dates with women I have not spent time getting to know.
It's usually a week or more at least of conversation and seeing how we click before we meet up in person.
But that's a me thing, something you would know if you knew me.
It is not my intent to dunk on you or on anyone else. I would appreciate it if you would return the favor.
You're not getting the point.
The point is, we don't know you.
And this may shock you, but people with bad intentions can just lie about things online. I'm not saying you are some psychopath who acts nice and caring online only to spike a drink and rape in person. Or that you're an abuser but you can't catch it yourself. I'm saying people don't know you, and therefore it can't be ruled out as a possibility. And so therefore the risk does indeed exist.
Not knowing is the point. Some people will therefore want to take more precautions when getting to know you even better in person, to minimize the risk further. Others won't think of the risk and just take it, or think it's not too risky, or not care of the risk, or even might think they can keep themselves safe, and won't meeting you in person alone in public.
No matter what though, the point is that initially, people don't know you. It's not an accusation directed at you, it's literally just the situation.
Good job projecting your personal preferences and dating strategy onto every other person in the world 👍
Also, good job failing to empathize with people who are regularly lied to and intentionally misled by people with negative intent, because "not all men" or what the fuck ever logical equivalent
Your responses have told me everything I need to know. This one isn't hard to discern.
The content of your statements are actively perpetuating the problem right now. Therefore, you are the problem.
Not super complicated.
I'm not questioning your intent. But the results speak for themselves.
She probably won't even get on the boat!
Hopefully that lady has enough self respect to tell that boy to go fuck himself.
Gendernormative assumption of gender?
SatansMaggotyCumFart i have seen you before and i do expect better from you.
I don't think "safety friends" are typical in lesbian circles, because of the implication
Satansmaggotycumfart is correct...hopefully she sees that response as the red flag that it is.
Not paying for a freeloader is a red flag now?
Saying so once would have been fine. If he's OK with the Safety Friend and she wanted to pay her own way then there's no conflict.
But saying so twice? That's some insecurity right there, and it would have me reconsidering even if I was desperate both for a free meal and to get laid.
They told the lady who they were with that last message now it's up to her to listen.
They were trying to get free meals out of the guy. Fuck them, actually. Bums.
The dude is the only one who mentioned money.
When he said he wasn’t paying she didn’t ask him to or imply that she was disappointed.
This seems like the dude dropped the ball.
I dont mind that, so long as the food is cheap.
My personal limit for that is ~20$, anything less than that and within reason, I wont question buying anyone food. Calories are important and im not going to judge people that quickly, have a pizza.
I prefer to have that meal repaid in the future with an IOU or another meal rather dealing with money, also the social connections are more important.
On the flip side, if I never see that person again. 20$ well spent.
Where do you see that from the picture? If he wants to make sure he is not paying for the third wheel, there are ways to say that without sounding like a total dick. She, on the other hand, doesn't mention money or food at all. We simply do not know the whole story here.