There’s a growing number of Americans who think violence might be necessary to get the country back on track
Nearly a third of Americans – 30% – say people may have to resort to violence in order to get the country back on track, according to the latest PBS News/NPR/Marist poll.
It’s a sharp rise from 18 months ago, when 19% of Americans said the same.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/theres-a-growing-number-of-americans-who-think-violence-might-be-necessary-to-get-the-country-back-on-trackOpen linkView original on lemmy.world796
Comments328
I mean… is it? I think it’s pretty obvious in the context of the regime essentially giving itself carte blanch to perpetrate political violence on its desired scapegoats and opponents.
I’m frankly getting pretty fucking tired of people complaining about how this is a startling development and being shocked by what’s happening. They wrote a playbook back in 2019. They published it on the open internet. They said they would follow it. They are now following it. You are not allowed to be surprised by any of this.
This country is BUILT on political violence. The revolutionary war. The civil war. Hundreds of thousands of people died in those conflicts. Only more recently have non-violent protests accomplished anything and that was only possible because of the more free atmosphere those wars established in this country. That freedom is now almost entirely gone. What choice do people have left?
Don't forget the riots and strikes between 1900 and 1920 (or 30?).
Successful application of violence today is complicated by the sophistication of surveillance and the electronic, centralized distribution of money.
It's difficult to pull together a large enough coalition to be able to fight effectively because the process of finding those people is short circuited by early discovery.
Nonviolence is the only way until a large enough segment of the population is desperate enough to trigger action.
Before that happens, effective leaders must be found and a support network must be readied to go into action quickly to professionalize and unify it when it happens, but before that is used to manage nonviolent action..
While I agree that non-violent is the way to go, I think we need to change our definition of "violence."
Property destruction should not be considered violent. Especially when precautions are specifically taken to ensure that no people were harmed during act of property destruction or sabotage.
On the other side of things, actions such as destroying wildlife habitat or polluting the air, water, and soil systems of the Earth should be considered "violence." It is violence towards all of humanity, and towards life itself.
Incredibly recently. The Civil Rights movement included advocacy for political violence, and arguably one of the only reasons it worked was Malcolm X and the Black Panthers saying "hey here's our alternative if our nonviolent fight doesn't work, we're all strapped and willing to hand out more guns if shit requires it".
And a healthy dose of "or else" political violence.
But Trump (lied and) said he didn’t know anything about Project 2025.
You’re not allowed to say the part in brackets without summoning the Gestapo.
We need a general strike. The country would be brought to its knees if deprived of profit and labor. That tactic was extremely effective in Chile in 2019, and had they not fallen for the trick of liberal reform, they would've had a successful revolution on their hands with virtually no bloodshed.
If you aren't in a union, then please consider joining the IWW to unionize your workplace (bonus: you'll get higher wages, better benefits, and more time off if you succeed!) to strengthen a general strike if we finally manage to enact one (the UAW is planning one for May 1st 2028, but it could happen sooner)
And for our international friends, you should join one as well, as fascism is gaining momentum globally. If your country isn't listed below, just contact the IWW directly in the link above.
Can you afford not to get paid for 2 weeks? If so you're in the minority. Most people can't. Not to mention they have kids they are worried about, medical conditions that they can barely afford even with insurance. Rising housing and grocery costs. Etc..
I'm not trying to be a downer. I would love to see this happen, but we need a "realistic" way to accomplish it, to convince a majority to participate.
Unions build up strike-funds with membership dues so that members can continue to receive a salary while striking, that's why unions are so essential for working class people to be able to flex their power non-violently.
Consider that Chile is a much less wealthy country than the US. but was able to successfully commit to a general strike for over a month.
Honest question, how much of the US population do you think is unionized? Without looking it up
I'm familiar with the depressing statistic already, a little under 10%.
However, bear in mind that the majority of the most critical infrastructure for making profit, such as ports, trains, trucking, and medical care have the highest rates of unionized jobs, and would still be incredibly effective for a general strike (Generally only 3.5% of the population would need to participate to have a meaningful effect). Even with our abyssal rate of unionization, we still hold incredible leverage if we choose to use it.
The UAW has a general strike planned for May 1st 2028, which has real odds of working. Unfortunately it's still 2 years out, and by that time may be too late. I'm hoping it's moved up at some point.
1-2%
Realistic way is people just drop out of consumer economy to the fullest degree possible for them. Cancel all unnecessary subscriptions, shop local for only necessities. Look how quickly Disney blinked just because of a wave of cancellations, now do that everywhere.
People are going to cite the Kimmel cancellations until we legally aren't allowed to. I... am skeptical.
A common talking point was that the real danger isn't people who cancel out of solidarity: it is people who realize they have a disney plus subscription they haven't used since Mandalorian Season 2. Because those are the bread and butter for these services and once people look at their bill and realize how much they have been spending over the years, they tend to not come back. And this all lined up with Disney (allegedly?) wanting to do a cost increase and enough "mainstream media" pointing out that Kimmel didn't actually say anything even slightly controversial.
Contrast that with stuff like Sucker Punch firing the dev who made a Mario and Luigi joke and tripling down on it... and nobody giving a shit because Ghost of Yotei is coming out! Or all the attempts at encouraging people to support BDS boycotts. I mean, Palestine was the single biggest issue and the sole reason the Democrats lost, right? Then... why is everyone leaping at new gamepass deals and so forth?
Time and time again it is shown that people just don't boycott luxury goods. If you can afford a luxury good you "earned it" and will find every possible excuse to keep buying it. What DOES tend to work is contacting the advertisers. Much like chuds contacted credit card companies to get gay games off Steam et al. Because, much like contacting your elected official, they understand that people actually caring enough to pick up the phone means a lot of people are REALLY angry.
Palestine was not the sole reason Democrats lost or the single biggest issue for voters according to the polling data. There was a small percentage for whom it was their sole or primary motivation in voting.
Wrong way of thinking, buddy boy.
If you can't afford to go without pay for 2 weeks now, then where do you think you'll be in 2 years time?
Act now while you're breathing, for the sake of being able to breathe.
People worried about making it the next two weeks won't be thinking about two years from now.
Can they afford to live under a fascist dictatorship that crushes dissenters and disappears citizens at will? It seems that by "realistic" resistance you mean "without inconvenience" but we're never going to get to that point. That seems to be what people are hoping for and it just doesn't work that way. The longer we wait the more sacrifice will be required.
No I mean "realistic" as in getting enough people to participate that it would actually have an impact.
Will those people attempt to make an impact if the cost is more than inconvenience?
What? What are you talking about? If enough people don't participate then it won't make a difference. And you're asking if they would still participate if it costs too much?? I'm sure many people would love to join but feel due to their current circumstances that they can't. That demo of people is being overlooked and shit on for some stupid reason.
The general strike is being planned for almost 3 years out. We would have to save less than 2% of our paycheck to more than cover 2 weeks without being paid. We need to normalize preparing for a general strike, and be willing to help each other if needed when the time comes
Perhaps this is why trump just declared war on nonprofits. They could potentially pull together resources to keep people fed during a coordinated nationwide strike.
They in general exist to tackle goals directly opposed to fascist regimes, so it males sense to target them.
Education, social justice, feeding the hungry, and protecting nature are all examples of goals Trump's regime are staunchly against.
That's why mutual aid organizations are essential. They operate outside of the legal system, so can't be directly targeted as easily. If you or anyone else reading this have the time, please consider joining your local mutual aid group. That could be Food Not Bombs, a different group local to your city or town, or even your local church if you're in a rural area.
If you don't have one in your area, start one! Here's a little guide on how and where to find likeminded folk to start one with: https://infosec.exchange/@tinker/113589807117870451
Thanks for the link.Trump is going after those next - nonprofits.
To add on to this:
Look what happens when people protest or go on strike. Everyone SAYS they are in full solidarity with the workers at Starbucks. But they also gotta get to work and that picket line is really holding up traffic... and now they also need to drive three blocks away to a different Starbucks. Look, something something no ethical consumption under capitalism so fuck you I earned this coffee milkshake and maybe if you worked harder you could buy one too.
A General Strike requires a fairly overwhelming majority of support to begin with. And, if we had that... we wouldn't be inching ever closer to a civil war.
Just because something is hard doesn't mean we shouldn't with for it.
It isn't about being "hard". It is about being "effective" and understanding the circumstances and impact.
But also... yeah, "this is going to be really hard" IS a consideration when it comes to social action. Because you have very few chances at that before people get bored or get demoralized. One of the most cliche examples are all the college kids who inevitably get super behind a candidate who doesn't win and then they start insisting that voting doesn't matter.
But the inverse of this is a very real consideration amongst the people who organize protests and resistance. There is a shocking amount of effort "behind the scenes" to downplay stupid fucking bullshit like "make your profile picture black". Because people do it and say "I helped" and start ignoring you. And while there is a LOT of discussion and argument regarding the utility of the parade protests... at least those get people outside.
And the start of any form of action is to understand what the impact of said action is and whether it is even feasible to begin with.
Don't try for things because there don't seem feasible before trying them, got it
Let's be honest most people living in first world countries can indeed do that but they don't like to renounce to all the commodities they have.
I agree that a general strike is the absolute least that should be done. But a general strike would have to hit the ground with the EXPECTATION that it will get violent.
It's inevitable that Cheeto will try to use his jackbooted thugs to crack down hard, and taking it meekly and then hoping to sue over it later won't be an option.
When the MAGA S.A. come to put you down, they aren't going to stop. I'm not saying that the strikers should start violence. But go in eyes open with the understanding that a a certain point, you all are going to have to make the fuckers bleed because they won't think twice about doing it to you.
At this point I'm tired of people trying to give a prescription for the 'right way to do things'
“A man who procrastinates in his choosing will inevitably have his choice made for him by circumstance.” Hunter S. Thompson
The problem is there absolutely is many, many wrong paths to take, and we have to learn from past attempts to avoid their mistakes. Notice how the arab spring movement, while initially promising, ultimately failed to prevent a new authoritarian regime from taking hold in most of those countries.
There are going to be different prescriptions from all political ideologies, but most of them can be dismissed to narrow down the possibilities.
That leaves the Libertarian-left/Anarchists. We have evidence that their methods result in pretty sweet outcomes, they just have never survived very long due to the whole world usually being against them.
Okay, so what do we do to in our case? First off, avoiding a civil war or extreme violence is vastly preferable, as the alternative has some big downsides. The best non-violent method we have at our disposal is a General Strike, which directly targets the machinery that fascist states rely on. Combined with mutual aid networks and civil disobedience, it has a rather good chance of preventing a fascist takeover with a minimum of violence.
The alternative is straight up revolution, which requires the participating population to be educated on a shared vision, methods to organize, and how to avoid centralizing power structures or cult of personalities which lend themselves to co-option by the above mentioned groups.
I 100% agree with the overall point that there are very bad outcomes to getting this wrong, but my point is that we are out of time. Even if we manage to pull off a general strike with mural aid and civil disobedience we could eventually all have to come together on a direction or course of action going forward and I dont see that happening and even in the best of circumstances I think the country balkanizes/otherwise dissolves after a series of geographically and ideologically independent insurgencies rise up from the chaos that's about to happen.
I'm not trying to be a doomer, but I think the time to steer into the skid has passed
I'm in favor of both options at once
Even if you are in a union, join the IWW as well. Most modern unions are insufficiently radical for what's coming, and all the best organizers I know are IWW dual-carders
Agree 100%! For others reading, here's a good article on the merits of dual-carding.
Gotta overturn the Taft Hartley Act to even make that legal.
If the law would lead us to fascism, then the law must not be followed. They will come for us regardless of if we follow the law or not.
Well if an ICE officer stops my husband based on his appearance we’ve both agreed that we should resist that arrest.
That would end in violence and probably our deaths. What else can we do? Let them take us god knows where?
And after all that training we've had to never let kidnappers take you to a secondary location! There really isn't another choice.
Gee, almost as if Russian propaganda is working.
Before the Civil War one politician opined that if a war started you'd be able to mop up all the blood spilled with one handkerchief.
Anyone who thinks a new fight will be any easier has probably never been in a real fight.
I don't think people realize that if a new US civil war kicked off the lines wouldn't be as clear as north vs south. this would be state vs state, city vs city, neighbor vs neighbor. you could draw lines in your god damn sub division/street.
And if it were alliances between states it would be a god damn logistical nightmare. Imagine California being allied with New York for example. or Hell Minnesota being allied with like Arizona or whatever. how do you move supplies, troops, and what have you between allied states when you got a shit ton of hostiles between the two.
Add to the fact that unlike the first civil war you now have US military bases all over the world. what happens when you got folks within the SAME base in the middle of Germany that suddenly don't "agree" with each other?
Cluster fuck is an understatement.
There'd also be a shit-ton of drone warfare. Thousands will die without ever seeing their killers face. It's also entirely possible AI will be bombing people and you'll basically be killed by an algorithm.
Lets also not forget cyberwarfare, ranging from external to internal sources, ranging from doxxing people to invented news events with AI gen/manipulated images/audio/video, all the way up to knocking out public infrastructure, locking down hardware of local gov / businesses / banks with ransomware, etc.
Random, unofficial people are capable of either most or all of that.
Oh and of course if shit really kicks off, other countries will probably do the CIA's signature move of funding arming and training various groups of people.
It's also why we need to avoid violence and make the regime stumble into itself.
Which is why Chinese and Russia propaganda is attempting to stoke the fire (remember, they eliminated their opposition, so they don't have the same experience inciting violence and they think they do).
Here's the thing: It's not going to fucking do that; it's going to stumble into fascism. Fascism is stupid and incompetent, but it absolutely does not and will not fizzle out without a resistance as committed as the fascists themselves. I mean, which fascist movement in history "stumbled into itself?"
implying there has ever not been violence or that the current amount of violence by right wingers and the US government isn't already, currently, right this fucking second even worse than before Trump's first term
nonviolent resistance is an important front but it alone won't be enough, I fear.
I saw one dream map where Canada drops two tentacles; one reaches down through the West all the way to San Diego, and the Eastern one reaches just north of Washington.
Humor aside, I agree with your take. A war of assassins and terrorists on both sides.
I'll add one more note. Back in the day, the Irish Republican Army was the most feared underground in the world. They only had a handful of soldiers, but a superb organization. If a shooter was supposed to kill someone in Geneva, he'd have three or four cars waiting when he got to the airport, and each driver would know five places the shooter could stay. He'd have a choice of getaway drivers and extra safe houses and docotrs on tap.
How do you still manage that in the current (and worsening) surveillance state? I mean Luigi showed its possible for a lone wolf but I have to question being able to organize without being known. If you are caught organizing an antifa org then you're also uber boned.
My point was that the next war won't look anything like the last one.
Anyone who thinks that some molotov cocktails they made is going to bring down the system has another think coming.
In my view the only way organization would work is with the assistance of an enemy nation with the ability to circumvent the surveillance state (to ship in weapons, avoid communication eavesdropping, etc). And unfortunately those nations are mostly very, very far away.
I can think of a funnier map: Canada taking NY, Washington DC, ... and Mexico (re)taking the west coast. Imagine if Texas ended up being again part of Mexico.
https://mexiconewsdaily.com/politics/canada-mexico-usmca-review-carney-visit/
This is why the techniques pioneered by the native americans, and taught to colonial rebels by their experience fighting with them, would be the most likely path.
What is that, you ask? Guerilla warfare. It's why we were able to defeat the most powerful colonial empire since the Romans.
We had the same conditions you described, a good chunk of people who still considered themselve British were mixed in with those who sought freedom.
Hard to hide from a drone.
Its going to be more like the people vs the federal gov.
If you think this, you should talk to your average republican voter. They will suck that orange cock until every bit of their wealth and ability to afford food is gone, and blame whoever fox news points a finger at that day.
It would be a clusterfuck. Especially since the type of violence some have advocated for recently is more akin to political assassination. We need to push back on the false equivalence of "person X says stuff I don't agree with about perceived identities, therefore that speech 'unpersons' me, therefore it's tantamount to a death threat, therefore actual violence against that person is justified." You can literally find examples in these comments here.
If you have thousands of lonewolves each deciding unilaterally to assassinate (insert political opponent or public figure here) based on their own subjective perceptions, that no longer resembles a civil war, it more resembles a free-for-all hellscape.
I'd suggest a more useful concept is to form strong local communities committed to their own well being, mutual aid, and defense. Whatever that looks like for you in your area. Your mileage may vary. This is not legal advice.
There may have to be a free-for-all hellscape phase before getting to an organized something-better phase in the hit video game super mushyroom kingdom.
Isn’t Hell in Michigan?
So which hashtag would you use to end slavery?
Let's turn it around.
I say violence won't work.
Please explain in detail how you see the conflict going. I mean, I'm certain that the same people who couldn't get past the DNC to get Bernie nominated will have no problem facing off against "military contractors" hired by the billionaire class.
Details, please.
I mean, I dread whatever violence is upcoming. But the reality is liberation has never happened with solely nonviolent means. Even King and Ghandi were buttressed by groups that used a variety of tactics, including violence, to force the state to come to the table with them.
This isn't to advocate indiscriminate or senseless violence, but if your resistance group is nonviolent, and condemn any violence by other resistance groups, they have severely limited the range of tactics acceptable for use, and cede the power of justified violence to those in power only.
There's a good book called "How Nonviolence Protects the State" that goes into depth on this, you should check it out.
In the end is a "good cop, bad cop" situation.
Still not seeing an actual plan.
I'm pretty sure we all agree that violence is a bad solution. The problem is we're all out of good ones. What are the alternatives at this point?
Society upholding its part of the social bargain. Making these people feel afraid to express such opinions anymore. Without that long term, even physical violence will only buy temporary change. These people will always return if given the opportunity. And for generations Americans have been taught to tolerate intolerance.
I don't see how we would make them afraid without any implied threat of violence though. Apart from that, I wholeheartedly agree with you.
Through a threat of non-physical violence. Cutting them off from society. The reason we're now debating about actual physical violence, about actually killing people. Is because society as a whole failed utterly to do that.
The last time this happened, the Civil War. Sherman was stopped much too early. As well as reconstruction. The fact that Confederate leadership was just allowed to surrender then allowed back into society with very little reprocussion. Not even to have all their property confiscated to repay for the damage they'd done. Let alone be exiled from the United States itself completely. That open sore was allowed to fester and become celebrated.
All of which served as an inspiration and a blueprint to the first wave of fascists in the early 20th century. It was all open and tolerated by society. That's why it returned.
that lever is getting harder and harder to pull. already it's impossible to get, for example, blatantly transphobic videos removed from youtube. The right's campaign of reframing the consequences of their bigotry as "censorship" or "anti conservative bias" has unfortunately resonated with big tech.
and a lot of these nazi fucks feel like they are protected from the consequences of spouting their nazi fuck bullshit, probably because they increasingly are.
Violence works, otherwise there wouldn't be any. We've put up a whole system of laws and police and investigators and courts and prisons in order to provide an alternative to violence. And even then, that system is itself backed up with a real threat of violence as well as its occasional localized deployment.
Yesterday's "pep rally" where none of the military leaders dragged in had anything good to say about it suggests that there is not the overwhelming military support that Trump wants there to be. There are plenty of examples of far less powerful local forces successfully standing up to superpowers. Afghanistan is one. Wallachia is another.
When the entire federal government and many state governments have wholly abandoned the systems put together to avoid violence, and are in fact using the husks of those systems to apply violence to their opponents, we've already crossed the Rubicon.
I would like to throw in that Vietnam managed to not only win a war against the US/French/Australians... but to also win a war against China, after the US left Vietnam.
Basically, after the US and allies left Vietnam, Vietnam invaded Cambodia to put a stop to Pol Pot's monstrous Khmer Rouge regime... and then China invaded Vietnam in response.
Vietnam repulsed them.
Despite being somewhere between considerably to vastly outnumbered, and fighting on multiple fronts.
The lesson of this story is do not fuck with the Viet Cong.
Say what you will about their version of 'communism' as a societal model, but holy shit does modern Vietnam have an insane military track record, with basically all its roots in guerilla warfare.
Violence fails 50% of the time, if not more. Every fight has a losing side.
Yup, and the side that loses is the side that wasn't violent enough.
Read up on your history.
The US dropped something like five Hiroshimas a day on North Viet-Nam for years.
Germany killed many more enemy soldiers than Russia did.
Quality over quantity.
So what did Occupy Wall Street accomplish? What about the March for our Lives protests? What about the BLM riots? What did Bernie Sanders winning every single county in the 2016 WV Democrat Primary accomplish?
So, no actual plan?
Those examples were the plan. But peaceful revolution have been shown to be impossible.
Wishful thinking isn't a plan.
Using a hashtag to end slavery isn't much of one either.
I don't remember, how many countries in Europe installed Fascist governments after Lenin came in?
I can cherry pick historical facts too.
If you feel name calling is a viable tactic, I guess I'll have to cede to your vast intelligence and withdraw. I may be deluded but I know when a conversation is a waste of time.
Hi, my name is ICE, off to a death camp for you, according to me and my paramilitary goon squad who broke into your house/apartment at 3 am.
Don't bother arguing, that's what the gag and spit hood are for.
Violence is already here.
Thoughts and prayers are not an effective defense.
I would suggest either hiding, very, very well, which is probably impossible for most social media addicts who've publicized half of their existence, and for morons who think that their VPN isn't keeping logs that can all be subpoenaed by the government...
Or maybe some kind of actual local community organizing, involving you know, actually speaking with your neighbors in meatspace, getting to know them, forming at bare minimum a plan for how to deal with say, food shortage, brown out/black out, etc.
And what's the plan?
Going to start shooting Federal officers in the street?
Here's what happens; Federal government shuts down the power to the whole city. Mobilizes the National Guard. Brings in overseas 'military contractors' like after Katrina.
Meanwhile, the 0.001% is at its beach house on Bali.
That all happens if you do nothing as well.
Infact it literally already is happening, half of what you describe as a potential reaction.
I am not going to give you the plan on an unsecured, publically accessible communication platform, you are a moron for asking for that.
I, personally, am crippled, and plan to do nothing and remain as close to an unthreatening digital ghost as possible.
That might, might actually work for me, because I am white, and have never registered as any kind of party affiliated voter, have never given my biometric data to any company or device for any reason, haven't been on an air flight in 20 years, don't have any social presence beyond this here psuedonomyous account.
Maybe you could start your plan with learning some basic opsec.
Your point is valid.
It probably looks like a dystopian novel surveillance state, with drones watching you every time you leave your house (or not). All internet and phone communication would be monitored. And anyone caught saying things the government doesn't like would suffer consequences.
With individual events prompting it and happening occasionally regardless of the surveillance state.
It'd look a lot more like the Irish than the Civil War. It'd be a country of everyone living in fear.
Sadly, the best defense we have is the fact that Trump is an idiot surrounded by dolts.
A competent leader would have locked everything down years ago.
A competent leader would have realized that the country is in a pretty good spot, he's in a pretty good spot. They'd focus on helping the American people and improving the world and the country.
They wouldn't be Hitler with more grift.
It takes a special amount of dumb to do the damage they've done. With their goals, they can't, by definition, be competent.
I've been saying this since 2016.
All Trump had to do was call the Saudis on Inauguration Day and tell them that they were going to put $50 billion in his bank account.
Then he could have sat back and done nothing.
I'm a life long New Yorker, and I've seen Trump's dumb for decades. Besides bankrupting casinos, he lost about a billion trying to buy the Plaza Hotel.
Everything is Russia's fault, got it.
This reflects a feeling of being backed into a corner. What else are we going to do when our political views and goals and ffs human beings are being criminalized? Every decent thing getting rolled back and every horrible thing dialed up to 11. Fuck republicans. One way or another they will regret this. Whether people vote them out or get violent with them remains to be seen but this will not last, obviously.
I can't wait until the day that these filth learn that we outnumber them 10 to 1.
It's up to them how they learn this fact.
Sounds delusional to me.. if we outnumber them 10 to 1 why the fuck is a republican sitting on the highest seat in the country? Everyone just sat out the vote??? Okay. Then what the fuck do you expect them to do to republicans if they can’t even vote?
Collusion and deception
Idiots got tired of not being allowed to be racist.
Harris was thoroughly unappealing to many, and the Democrats were masterfully outmaneuvered by the Republicans seeding shit about Gaza and rallying minorities against her.
In swing states there was definitely vote manipulation. You had Musk offering to pay people to vote.
I would say after the outcome of Project 2025, he's finally pissed off minorities and farmers, and business owners, now he's working on the military.
Now he's threatening to send the US military in against cities.
I think the only one delusional here is you. votes will tell eventually.
You left out that we had years of dems talking about DACA but harris/biden tried to triangulate on immigration leading to latinos not voting in many places.
That's what I used to think too.
Then, around Trump's first campaign, I talked to plenty of Latinos that voted Republican. They didn't generally give a fuck about immigration. They were quite happy for the borders to be shut down, where they came from, everything was very fuck you, I got mine. They're more than happy to pull the ladders up now that they're over here with their family to limit competition for those job sectors.
They also vote Republican based on entrepreneurial and business wants. They either start small companies or work for small companies. And they see it as very much in their interest for those companies to prosper.
I kind of suspect at this point that they'd be a bit apprehensive to vote Republican with all the Gestapo bullshit going on, still, but I haven't had any political talks with Latinos since Trump's first campaign. It's honestly hard to tell.
Those are not the people that didn't vote afaik. Immigrants from mexico, central and south america tend to be more catholic and conservative. (Which is why its always actually been about racism) its generally younger latinos that will vote democrat but like all younger voters its more about turnout.
I know I'm outnumbered by conservatives in my area. And, while they might not voluntarily admit to bigotry, they do strongly believe in a hierarchy of power, and that failing to be obedient to a higher authority is justification for any punishment you (not them!) receive. They also believe that the laws should reflect "Biblical" teachings and that "The Church" (their church, not those Catholic "idol worshipers") should be involved in health care, education, and the work place not just reflected in the laws.
They also tend to own guns and know how to use them, but that somewhat depends on their income. It's an outsized spend, but when you are on food stamps, you aren't also stockpiling ammo or acquiring more guns.
Imma just leave this here
Okay but without any sort of investigation or evidence this is just a tweet of a crazy rich person.. which by the way if we start taking every one of this cunts tweets as fact then I guess that cave diver that saved all those people was actually a pedophile and I also suppose you believe we will colonize mars by 2030? Or that Neuralink can cure all diseases?
Because they stole the source code to the election machines in 2020 and modified the software to cheat the 2024 election, subverting the will of the people.
If you can’t prove it or enforce it, it doesn’t really matter. Otherwise you sound just like them the first time Trump lost.
Basically, yeah. Because they didn't want to vote for the red genocide supporter, and they didn't want to vote for the blue genocide supporter; because no matter what, they're voting for genocide.
I mean, in reality, most people right now in the US are just upset that US foreign policy has finally reach US shores.
Sweet cherry picking bro. The comment as a whole responds to another whole comment, and here you are taking 5 words and making a whole reply about it. I’m sure Harris wanted to build concentration camps and strip the entire country of their rights, and tariff every country with a name too. You’re right, they’re both so bad you might as well just let Jesus take the wheel.
If she was so worried about Trump, why didnt she vocally oppose the US supporting genocide abroad?
So, yes, she wanted concentration camps. Did you think she was going to shut down the ones Obama opened on our southern border, or did you think they magically disappeared once Biden got elected?
Remember, she's the "top cop" and cops love oppressing the working class.
I'm terrified of it.
I've talked to relatives on both sides of my family who have experience those times and they have nothing good to say about it.
My grandmother went from hoping the Nazis would ignore her, to hoping the American bombs would miss her, to hoping that the Russian soldiers wouldn't rape her.
My grandfather had guys from both the KMT and the CPC point guns at his head to try to get him to join (on separate occasions) and ended up a refugee.
Both China and Austria are doing very nicely now but boy did it suck getting there.
Its a shame she didn't just start fighting back instead of just hoping they'd ignore her.
Yeah. It's a shame she didn't get together with all her teenage friends and face off against the SS. That definitely would have stopped them in their tracks.
How do you think they were beaten? By running away?
And loads if French resistors were teenaged.
What was the single biggest success of the French resistance?
What would those teenagers have done differently to not end up like the White Rose?
They provided a massive amount of intelligence, without with, the advance of Allied forces would have been far slower, and far more bloody. They also freed quite a number of Allied POWs, and got them back past the lines. They also downed comms and infra against the Nazis to blind them and slow their advances. They were also a key reason France was able to rapidly rebuild it's forces post WWII.
Do people just skip WWII history these days?
The fuck is wrong with you?
Some people are not fighters. The species is full of variation because we are cultural and depend on specialization. I state the obvious.
We all have choices to make. To live as a slave, or fight for freedom. Are some people just "naturally slaves"?
Soldiers require 2 to 20 people each providing support. You can resist without picking up a gun. Stop assuming.
Providing support isn't the same as "hiding and hoping Nazis ignore me". Spoiler: They wont ignore you for long, and you hoping they go away just allows them to centralize and build their power.
They aren't afraid. They have the Department of War, and ICE to protect them and their property.
And remeber they could win a war agaisnt goat herders in Afghanistan. This is our soil, and americans are crazy armed.
Numbers alone are meaningless.
Historically, it has always taken violence to remove fascists from power.
This is just people waking up to reality. Trump has the White House, the senate, the House of Representatives, and the courts. He controls the military and has already begun deployment to "democratic" cities. His buddy in Texas is redistricting to help him consolidate power, and I am sure Abbot is not the only one. Every move Trump makes is designed to cripple opposition to his regime. Republican states are purging voter rolls and enacting bullshit laws designed to disenfranchise people of colour.
Milquetoast democrats have made only the most pathetic gestures of opposition to Trump. The first genuine thing Trump ever said was when he expressed surprise yesterday at how little resistance he has faced from the left. Republicans were right about one thing: the American left is a bunch of pussies.
If more Americans think political violence is the only way out of the mess Americans made, it's probably because they are starting to develop a vague but accurate understanding of what is happening in their country.
Perhaps the Democratic Socialists (DS) can become the unifying source of resistance. They are the ones fighting, but there are too few to have political impact.
It's up to the citizens to back them, and the DS must drum up the leaders and present them so citizens can choose them.
I think the DS values are the closest to the new deal approach that made America a wildly successful nation and beacon for just treatment of humans.
Heck, Europe and Japan took their governing cues from America during the Marshall plan. They are examples of following the ideals our leaders used to value. This is the real "make america great again".
This is my fondest wish. I think many Americans are ready to rally around someone mounting a serious opposition to Trump, but no one has stepped up so far. I love Bernie and i believe he is important to the movement, but they need a young, charismatic, inspiring leader to start getting very loud about the real situation in the US. It will be an uphill battle because the media have been captured by people either cowed by or sympathetic to Trump. Maybe Lemmy can be the platform for DS in the states. Legacy media has failed (with maybe 1-2 exceptions).
Well, I think AOC is leading the fight, but she needs support to become a major player politically. Mamdavi is evidence of her rising power, and he can now be one of those leaders.
Jasmine Crockett is another. Sure, not DS, but easily a coalition member. I hope there is strong effort foran revolution of leadership in the Democratic Party.
Thanks.
I had a lib tell me the other day that democratic socialists are actually a secret SpecOp branch of the Tea Party tasked with infiltrating the dem party and undermining the efforts of patriots like Jeffries and Schumer, and that it is a blatant lie and MAGA propaganda that countries left of US dems exist and are functional. Europe has apparently been a warzone since WWII because they're taken over by socialist terror organizations. I was then blocked for linking to the Wikipedia article for Democratic Socialism.
I think breaking the blue tribe propaganda is going to be one hell of an uphill battle, unfortunately. A lot of dems align on policies with leftists, at least socially, but once you use the trigger words, their programming activates and freak the fuck out and call you a MAGA plant despite all evidence to the contrary.
Alright, (s)he might identify as a liberal, but he's actually exactly the same as the most radicalized MAGA cultists. He just chose a different set of crazy.
That person does not represent even 1% of liberal or progressive adherents. Crazycis crazy, regardless of that lunatic's flavor of belief.
As for reactions to "democratic socialist" by Democrats, I suspect what you are seeing is from people who are chest deep in the Democratic Party core activist zone. They likely are afraid of change, even if it would better meet their ideals. Their cozy insulated blanket is just soooo warm. :)
As much as I wish it were the case, this is not even close to the only dem I've spoken to who is brainwashed into thinking that anything truly left, like much of the world outside of the US, could never work in reality. Suggesting it means you voted 100% for Trump or Stein, and if you say you didn't you are lying. You can agree with them on damn near every social policy under the sun and provide metrics from progressive nations on their successes, and they'll refuse to accept that anyone could possibly be more progressive than them, despite literal mountains of easily verifiable evidence.
I think unfortunately many people are just very politically ignorant and have no desire to even begin to question the US process or try anything different. The US is simply the best at everything. Europe and their crazy whacko ideas may as well be an alien planet and not worth thinking about.
Of course this isn't all people, some shift is happening (as long as its not called socialism, generally), but in my personal experience leftist ideas pretty much get you locked out of any discussion. I typically get smug "Oh its so cute you're in your socialist phase, you'll grow out of it and understand politics like me" treatment.
Maybe after 350 years here in America, I need to seriously consider returning this family to Europe 😞
The gerrymandering in federal elections is something that amazes me since decades ago. I understand it when it was created. But today? When you can count all ballots in a few hours? I get the divisions when you have to vote for the Senate or your district, but in a federal election you are only voting for one person. Count all the ballots, find the one with the most ballots and name that person president. It's not that hard.
Well it's true. You can't be diplomatic with fascists. You can't "get on the same level" with billionaires.
They have no reason to listen or care, unless we give them a reason to listen or care.
And no matter what, all violence is somehow leftist violence. Trump in his speech to the generals said that they need to deploy against 'animals' who fire at firefighters climbing ladders to save people. At first I was incredulous, but then I saw a comment that pointed out that not too long ago a Trump supporter really did fire at firefighters doing their jobs (and climbing ladders). Not only that, but he was the one who started the fire in the first place to bait them.
Yet it is our fault somehow...
violence is already happening, it's just that people are too scared to fight back against it
"Those who make peaceful reform impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
You can't vote your way out of fascism. Trump already launched an insurrection to hold on to power. He won't let it go now that he's better entrenched.
I suppose we'll give it a try in a year. I do think leftists, including myself, should admit and prepare that they might need to violently resist The State tho.
Exactly. Ultimately these people don't actually believe in anything other than power. Their arguments are in bad faith. Any compromise is just a temporary weigh station as they prepare to push even harder.
How did compromising with the right work for abortion? Parental consent laws became onerous clinical regulations became bans on performing procedures became making getting an abortion legally murder. How did compromising on trans rights go? A few "reasonable concerns" about girl's sports became blanket bans on sports became bans on life-saving care for minors became restrictions on basic ID documents became attempts to criminalize the very existence of trans people. This isn't slippery slope conjecture; it's directly observed history.
The simple awful truth is that we have fundamentally incompatible visions of the world. They see The Handmaid's Tail as an ideal to aim for. They think the literal God of the universe wants them to create this nightmare. And with God at their backs, they can justify any evil to create their warped utopia. Any action can be justified. Any lie can be excused. Any suffering by any number of people now can be balanced against the perfect lives they imagine we'll all live once they force us all into their dream world. The worst thing about them, is that they actually think they're the good guys.
This is the fundamental problem. Their vision of an Earthly paradise is our vision of Hell on Earth. We have fundamentally different visions for the future. They cannot convince the majority of the population to willingly create their vision. So they have to resort to violence, disenfranchisement, propaganda, and fraud. (All justified for the greater good.) And ultimately we're going to have to use every tactic they use and more if we want to keep these monsters from turning our nation into Gilead.
Fundamentally, elections were designed to be a peaceful alternative to the peasantry revolting against the government and beheading their king. As Americans come to grip with the reality that their elections are meaningless, their politicians are bought and their only alternative to fascism is fascism-lite with a pride pin (no trans ppl allowed though) this attitude will continue to fester.
The country went off-track when Reconstruction was defeated by white terrorism and the old slaveocracy retook their wealth and power. We've been struggling with the aftermath since then.
Is killing people that are openly declaring that they want to kill you even "political violence"? I would say it is not, because at that point you are not going after them because of their affiliation with any political party, but because they are trying to kill you.
PBS running these insipid polls lately is so fucking offensive.
Americans are already doing violence on Americans to execute their fascist vision of this country, en masse, within and without institutions. Violent change is here. The violence question is over. Public opinion is for TV.
On track to what ..for fuck sakes?
Reclaiming what has been stolen from the working class since Reagan.
Right? Supply side christofascism? A final coup d’etat? Splitting the country? Even the democrats are more than a little sus with their corporate allegiance, so exactly who is going to be the preferable leadership?
Half the country wants to take the express route to fascism. I don't know if we can even fix things at this point.
1/4 to 1/3 of the country are traitors.
Remember, the last election was not legitimate.
Healthcare, housing, hope
And you think violence will get that?
No, I think the violence is a symptom, and that political violence is happening and we have to stop pretending it's not. This is the state we're in, no amount of crackdowns or "turning down the temperature" is going to change things
If you look at the cause, it's obvious there's just going to be more and more violence. That's what happens when you make people desperate, and people are getting more and more desperate
Fascism sure as fuck won't. And fascists won't willingly leave power until they're dead.
Actually, yes.
The ruling class has such a stranglehold on power, the only way to take it away from them is to take it back by force.
They will never give up willingly and have more than enough resources to make sure people like you are complacent in their abuse.
That is right. "Which track" is always the needed followup question.
Edit: Oh, actually great quote from article.
This is exactly how it's being orchestrated. Pit the people against each other so the politicians and wealthy can get away with literal murder.
We are being governed by the "Epstein Elite", literal pedophiles and sex traffickers and the idiots that kneel to them.
culture wars crap= aka, anti-wokeness, antivaxx, anti-trans.
not class wars=billionaires vs the not .01%
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
I hate that I agree with this.
Humans can be so much more than violent cavemen, but we aren't there quite yet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9x7FGbW3IVc
That's part of why I'm neither a patriot nor a tyrant.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_religion
Suprisingly, both of them are on the same side of the barricade.
Yea for sure, suck the copium. There is a reason why patriots rhymes perfectly with idiots
magats are not patriots.
Patriots love their country and criticize it when its wrong.
Nationalists create a fantasy narrative of what their concept of a "country" is, and think that's the best thing in the world.
I probably fit into the category of "patriot", I love the multiculturalism of the US, I love the progress that has been made on Civil Rights and the protection of people with disabilities and recognition of the rights of LGBT+ people, I love the constitution (well... some parts need to be tweaked), the 1st and 2nd amendments, separation of powers, the idea that "American" is not a race, but an ideal; And I do recognize that the history is dark and those dark history should be taught so we can prevent those from happening, and I do NOT support this administration's blatant violation of the constitution and anyone involved should be thrown in jail.
These "nationalists" don't even love the country, they do not support freedom, they are traitors, and should be dealt with accordingly.
This line turned on a light bulb deep in the recesses of my brain that were formed while being raised by rural conservatives.
In my conservative world at least, punching down was pretty much universal, not just a political thing. You don't criticize your parents/betters or honestly even disagree with them many times, but you can expect criticism of your own every move. Generational trauma isn't a single event, after all.
Or, if you're lucky, the parent is the type to sweep everything under the rug and pretend that everything is perfect.
So with those kinds of traits plus the very hierarchical thinking, you can see how you simply do not criticize your people in charge, your religion, etc.
But that's only for YOUR people. If somebody is an OTHER then that means they are nowhere on your hierarchy (the correct one, obvs) and are therefore worth less than the lowest peon on your side.
Soooooo, that was a long way of saying these people probably THINK they love their country because they treat it with the same honor, deference, and "see no evil" that they give their own grandmother.
They literally are. The same goes for Israelis commiting genocides, as to the Russians commiting it. All of them are patriots to the fullest, and you can suck you copium freely, because as it seems, you are very simillar to them. Just waiting for your own patriotic front to be on the rise.
They are. That's the dirty truth of the Post-Cold War state of the nation. What we're getting a taste of is authentic Real Americana.
All the flowery liberal hagiographies of noble, selfless liberty lovers was propaganda. Trump is the beating heart of American oligarchy. And the oligarchs have had this country by the throat since the day settlers put boots on the soil of the New World.
The "freedom" this country promises is a lie. It's the old Auschwitz line. "Work shall set you free". Horseshit. These people want to work you into your grave.
You are getting a taste of long running russian media manipulation, enabled by rich oligarchs who care more about their power and money than country.
A russian literally wrote the book on how to take down the country.
And this shit thats happening right now is literally what was written in it.
You're not seeing anything authentically americana from the right. You are seeing gullible idiots manipulated by outside forces to destroy the very ground they stand on out from under themselves, and do it while praising a country that they and their predecessors hated and vilified as the great communist evil.
Which Russian, the one that says gay atheists take down the country or the one that says gay Jews take down the country?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics
Russia pushes every angle. The point is to spread division.
FTFY
"Israel pushes every angle. The point is to spread division."
Sorry bro, but the calls are coming from inside the house.
FTFY
You are getting a taste of long running Israel media manipulation, enabled by rich oligarchs who care more about their power and money than country.
Depends on how you define "patriot". If it is strictly nationalism, then yeah. If you define "patriot" as someone who loves, in this context, democracy and human dignity, then I would disagree.
Every patriot loves his country as long as it's feed with propaganda and lies about it. Ah, and as long as patriot is in the gaining side of the country. If not, they will start spreading bullshit about "the other group is not group of true patriots".
Idiots rhymes with patriots perfectly, and for me it's the perfect comedy.
I've never known the term "patriot" to not be soley a nationalist dog-whistle... unless we're talking about beers on Family Guy
To me, a patriot always been someone who is willing to sacrifice of themselves to make the country better for everyone else. Whether that means sacrificing their life in battle, giving up significant wealth, or using their talents to help those in need.
MAGA is all about grievance, and what the country should be doing to service them. They are nationalists and identitarians, not patriots.
I always thought nationalists are fed a sense of pride (through indoctrination, propaganda, belittling of other nations) in their country, and patriots just develop their pride organically because the country they live in is great at taking care of their people (and even those who are from other nations).
Those are nationalists, not patriots. They love tyrants.
1775: Breaking News, there's a growing number of colonists who think violence is necessary...
if this comes to violence, I will be slaughtered. not because I plan to fight, but because trans people have been so thoroughly villianized by the Right. I won't hurt a soul, but I expect to be hurt.
violence would be a catastrophe.
All transgender medical therapy is being made illegal. That's violence. Another step up the genocide ladder.
yep. that's why me and everyone I know is prepping to DIY. they can pry my estradiol from my cold, dead hands.
It’s already happening. If I was trans I would be looking to flee the country ASAP. I wouldn’t even trust blue states to protect me.
its a step closer to controlling women in general, its the endgame. because most transphobia has been happening to transgendered women, more than men who FTM. Also it creates another problem, by mislabeling non-transgedered women as well, i knew a family member that was misgendered by a demographic other than caucasians that specifically is wierdly obsessed with them.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure."
Not that I think political violence (or violence of any sort, for that matter) should be our first, second, or even thirty-fifth resort, but at a certain point I think one must come to grips with the fact that - whether it fits in with their delicate sensibilities or not - when confronted with an existential peril it does sometimes become necessary to defend oneself. (Fun fact: This is why self-defense can be presented as a valid defense against murder charges!)
Sure, we should absolutely make any and all attempts to be inclusive (Republicans HATE this!) and tolerant (GOP: hiss IT BURNS!) and attempt to reach solutions through education, research, negotiation, compromise and all that lovely (woke?) stuff, but... For some reason, it seems like there's consistently only one side that ever shows up to the table willing to actually do any of that. And that's just how it's been for fucking DECADES now. There's probably a lot of you (just generally speaking, not necessarily meaning Lemmy's demographic per se) who aren't even old enough to remember a time before the GOP began using "government shutdowns" and "debt ceilings" and "literal fucking coup attempts" as part of their standard, day-to-day politicking. Believe it or not (and I know this will probably be the hardest one to buy, but I swear it to be true) there was a time when the Republicans would - even if they WERE NOT in power at the time - STILL SHOW UP AND DO THEIR FUCKING JOBS. I know, what a concept, eh? Imagine going to work every day and just... doing your job, like a fucking idiot, instead of throwing absolute meltdown tantrums over your lack of control over other people's genitals.
Does any of this strike you as the behavior of (an) entity(ies) engaging in anything even remotely resembling something that could be construed as "good-faith negotiation" - let alone even approaching something as audacious as "compromise?" This isn't a willing, eager party to an arbitration, quite, is it? No... Something more akin to an assailant with a knife at our throat(s) demanding to inspect our genitals to make sure we're where they think we should be at the moment certainly sounds more apt to me...
I don't want there to be violence. Any. At all, really. But at what point does the moral imperative toward nonviolence get outweighed by the moral obligation to the people being kidnapped by masked (supposed) government agents and disappeared to very real, literal concentration camps? How many genocides at once do we need to hit the tipping point where it's finally acceptable to stand up and say, "That's enough. This far. No farther." But actually back that up, for a change.
If that means by force, then unfortunately, so be it. Might doesn't make right, but that certainly doesn't preclude it from enforcing it, does it?
Well, editorially, I suggest you break up those paragraphs into smaller ones, and maybe add some headings for a "wall of text" like that, but you make well thought out arguments and I totally agree.
When it becomes clear that the citizens no longer have a controlling voice in choosing who leads us, that is when revolution is a valid choice.
BTW, I'm one who is old enough to remember (like Pepperidge Farm - there, proof I'm old enough)
Ugh, I know it's a mess as far as the nuts and bolts go at a minimum (and we'll not get into any inherent flaws in my reasoning, thank you very much lol) but in my defense I had just recently woken up and was in dire need of chemical assistance, and I honestly didn't even think I'd gone on like I did but I was fired up! lol
He who saves his country violates no laws.
-Donald J Trump
He defined the ROE in January of 2021.
John Brown was right.
define back on track
There is no historical precedent for an electoral solution to a descent into fascism.
There is no historical precedent for an electoral solution to massive wealth inequality.
Depending on how the question was worded Im willing to bet a large portion of those means violence against the lunatic leftists.
I could wish really really hard that you're wrong, but you're not.
I mean, I'm for it. Just waiting for the green light when it's ok to punch a Nazi and be considered a patriot and not a criminal...
Be clear, I believe in peace first. But when peace and negotiation is no longer an option, your hand is forced until peace and negotiation is an option.
Think of it like this. Bully attacks you, you ask them to stop and they don't. One day you decide to put the bully in an wrist lock! Bully is now screaming in pain. Bully now agrees to stop attacking you. Peace has been restored.
there will be no green light. one side will be legitimized as lawful agents or paramilitaries, every excess of force overlooked, and our side will be considered criminals and terrorists, even in self-defense.
if it comes to violence it will be more like the Troubles than the Civil War.
I don't think getting it on track requires or will even be helped by violence
I firmly believe, however, that many powerful people will violently resist the re-tracking
This is an amazing nuance I think may be lost on many.
I have become worried I’ll need to defend myself against violent republicans because they are always talking about and actively hurting others.
Your concern is valid. "Worry" is a useless activity. Prepare.
They might not explicitly call themselves republicans. They might be implicitly or explicitly backed by The State. But there is a growing number of people with weapons and unmasked hate for othered humans.
I know so many that wouldn't throw the first punch but are eager to join a dog pile.
You can't argue nazis out of your government. Churchill didn't convince Hitler to back out of Poland over a friendly cuppa.
Soap box, ballot box, ammo box. They're trying to take away the 1st 2, so...
Your point is valid, but you forgot "jury box": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_boxes_of_liberty
Well we tried that too and the pussy ass judge gave 0 days in jail so.
As always, Republicans lead the pack, with more Republicans supporting political violence than Democrats. The scary part is how much the Democrat statistics have gone up, and the fact they're getting close to the levels of support seen in Republicans
America is fucked up. I don't have a solution, just pointing out the sad state of affairs
Things always go to shit when the wealth divide gets too big. People and companies shouldnt be big enough to own the government. The last time this happened was the guilded age in the 20s which led to the crash. who knows where this one will lead.
Scary would be the Democrats continuing to stick their head in the sand
You mean Dems finally realize the threat? I hope you realize how silly you sound when put into historical context. "Well obviously those crazy Nazis are talking about violence, they're always talking about violence. What REALLY concerns me is all the non-Nazis bordering Germany that are talking about arming up in case the Nazis decide to attack!" Yeah, the state of things sucks, but it's not the people going "oh shit, these psychos want to slaughter us and they currently have most of the weapons, maybe I should have the ability to defend myself" that are the problem
Celebs have that pesky parasocial relationship with their fans, attacks on them are interpreted as attacks on the in-group. Attacking then just inspires their fans to violent revenge.
By comparison almost no one gives a shit if a CEO is murdered.
Irrelevant when both are part of the same problem.
Edit: also LOL at removal for "promoting violence" given the actual article being discussed.
It's relevant because people will take up arms for their celebrity crushes. They become martyrs.
No one cares when CEOs die.
Charlie Kirk was the cofounder and CEO of Turning Point.
Sam Altman, Elon Musk, the McMahons, Mark Zuckerberg.....
Point, but he's a celebrity first.
Elon Musk might be similar in that he also cultivates his own popularity, but most CEOs are either unknown or generally hated by everyone on all sides. No one knew who Brian Thompson was before he was killed and most people either didn't care or were happy he died, and there were Republicans that were happy he died.
There's a lesson to learn here.
...
As far as I can tell, healthcare is not "fixed" or even "back on track". You'd be hard-pressed to find another industry as loathed as insurance for healthcare, too.
It still wouldn't address the issues in the linked article, which is much more widespread and specifically includes those celebrity ceo's.
Check the roster of board members before CEOs. CEOs are still working class people (often, anyway…)
The real monsters are nameless, faceless ghouls pulling strings out of sight. Besides the obvious puppet ghouls you see on the news every day, of course. But if you know who they are, that’s on purpose. History’s going to write a lot about the “useful idiot”, best exemplified by Trump.
Most CEOs are also board members themselves. But that's a valid point. There's not a single board member of a public corporation that isn't absurdly wealthy.
Fuck these mods.
We need better communities, ASAP.
doing infrequent protests hasnt helped one bit especially if not large numbers like other countries do it, if the enemy knows you arnt going for thier HEADS, they will just laugh and move on.
also people are unwilling to boycott/generally strike, because they sitll have thier creature comforts, plus all the propaganda against protesters in general, i think the staged eco-protests(the ones that defaced public things, were funded by the oil/gas industry) over the years was just testing the waters.
Guns do not protect you from Fox News.
I disagree with Lemmy (and the growing public sentiment), but for the opposite extreme reason: we are beyond violence changing things. This is a propaganda/reality war, and truth doesn’t really matter.
That’s just people who admit it out loud. I know a few people who hint at this too but are afraid to say it out loud, especially if they have an Alexa-type device.
My FBI agent when I speak directly into the Google Home device that I am going to fight back against fascism:
Lol. His photo will never not be hilarious.
Whoah his eyes follow you around the room!
Unfortunately that appears to be the only way to get rid of them. They continually ignore the established laws and protests and " sternly worded emails/letters/phonecalls.
The Rest of The World: “duh!”
I’ve always been happy to be Canadian, but the current state of things in the US… I mean, we’ve got our problems, but god damn. My friends aren’t in danger of being disappeared by government agents because they’re not pale white.
I'm Canadian too, but I'm also getting sick of fascists and wouldn't mind punching a few in the face. These people are disgusting and only understand violence, seems like.
Yet... Canada is only a few steps behind
How so?
Haha, it'll never happen.
Most are too complacent, comfortable, and mollycoddled to do anything. They'll just try to wait it out and hope that it'll change at the next election ...not realising that if there is a next election that it'll probably be rigged, to quote the orange child rapist himself "you'll never need to vote again, we've got it sorted".
The daft thing is you don't need to have a massive civil war to end this bullshit. You just need some backbone and to target the orange paedo from all directions and not let him have any time or space to do his evil shit. Then once he's out, or dead from the inevitable stress induced heart attack, go after his cronies. He's the biggest manbaby that's ever lived, use it against him.
Pick up a history book.
Fascists don't allow fair elections.
Fascists don't stop when asked politely.
Unfortunately, that 30% is correct.
Arm yourselves and everyone you know. Form networks. Communicate via encrypted messaging apps.
It's worked to found the nation and gain independence. It worked to ensure slavery ended. It worked in both world wars. Americans have no problem using it in every single country in Latin America and the middle east. What's good for the goose...
America, you have the right to bear arms for a reason.
The government said pacifism is naive and dangerous
30%, 50%, 70% means nothing if no one takes action.
The French, the orcas, allegedly Luigi. We have to follow their example. Anything less is just glazing at how "comfy" sitting on the frying pan feels.
The justice system, from the government perspective, is primarily a guard against vigilantism. Once enough people lose faith in the justice system's ability to enforce the law with at least some degree of honesty and fairness, then the only option people see is to take justice into their own hands.
And when you have meetings. Arrange them in coded language and have everyone leave their phones and smartwatches at home before they go.
Peaceful general strikes would be a better first option imho
Ohh no, the people have an increasingly hard time to buy the propaganda that keeps them docile and compliant?
Nobody, absolutely nobody could have seen that coming. The democracy looked so healthy just a year ago. /s
Just an observation.
Things have been looking for a while like its going to be a Provoked Insurgency
what I mean is that when you have all three levels of the federal government, and you start attacking people. like actually attacking not just mouthing off to the microphones. you put your victims into a situation where they have no choice but to actually use violence and fight back, because doing nothing is a death sentence.
if the rhetoric stays firmly on the Paranoid Delusion Mouth Breathing Talking in Tongues Ultra MAGA level. thats where we're gonna go. People talk about Civil war all the time and get hyped... but what are you gonna do when you GET Civil War? Bitch that the internet is out and then starve to death?
I've kinda been predicting this since his first term, worst case scenario (and at this point increasingly more likely) would be a Syrian civil war style destabilization from within. Fractured and splintered into a number of militias fighting locally for their perceived community/religious sect/ethnicity against a much better equipped state military that can't cope with the scale of things. Retaliation and backlash against other groups, within and outside of said community, extrajudicial and casual killings, etc.
In other words, a nightmare. This country is just so damn big and full of so many different kinds of people and ideas
Edit bc I just remembered: FUN FACT, at my last job there was a customer I was real cool with, helped him build a Baja 5.0 Ranger. Dude was a Brazilian DACA dreamer who was a diehard trump supporter along with his family, who made it very clear his naturalization was on HIM and they wouldn't help (they had gotten their citizenship). Very conservative, probably big bolsonaro fans.
He was one of the few trump guys actually interested in what some stupid leftie in a red state had to say, and actually heard me out on this ^ theory. I wonder where he is now.
Probably in El Salvador.
Did the survey question specify what "the right track" is?
Because MAGA has a very different definition than progressives do.
Maga opinions should be disqualified for being goddamn stupid. They can go live life by their bullshit rules
It's alright we don't have to listen to a word they say. They're not American anymore, they're traitor magats.
They control all 3 branches of government and basically every local PD and Sheriff's department.
So don't listen, but be prepared to not listen as they're screaming in your ear.
I mean kicking Trump to the crib isn’t that difficult….. let’s do that and the rest of us 300+ million people can move on and have a drink.
I agree it was easy, when we had a chance to actually enforce our laws and constitution. Leadership failed to do that, and now all the leaders who had the power to do something are replaced with lackeys.
Easy is no longer on the table.
The Handmaid’s Tale is really happening.
It’s happening….
I mean it's just a poll, but: what kind of violence? Hopefully organised? And what does "back on track" mean anyhow? The past years have shown us that the problem is systemic. Going back means the option for the next asshole to do the same is still there.
I only glanced the article but a question we need to answer first is what exactly is violence?
It seems straightforward but in multiple countries now i have read politicians making claims about violent mobs while in effect it was destruction of property.
Aggression isn’t violence so i am curious how many people say one thing while meaning the other.
Wait... The country full of gun nuts would think that? I'm flabbergasted
*This is a topical meme and does not represent the views of me or anyone I know.
Which track we talking about lol
Trump certainly does, or at least it's what he claims.
Just because it will probably be, doesn't mean you have to initiate it first. Not only is there a lot of preparation that needs to go towards a revolution that isn't just arming and shooting, but it's also better if the other side is the one to initiate it first. First is getting rid of the delusion that the federal government hasn't been corrupted beyond repair, getting rid of the delusion that you can work inside a system that's now exponentially worse than it was 4 years ago and somehow fix it. Then you can look at your own history and where power can actually be consolidated, and begin preparing knowing you are working against compromised social networks with the next generation of Cambridge Analyticas so you can't rely on ignoring the elephant in the room.
I've not heard a single conservative say anything about "back" on anything. Not on track, not to old school values, not a fuckin thing.
I have heard them say it's time for a new America though. A lot lately in fact. Phrasing, ya know?
Self defense.
Its way worse now than when the weathermen were a thing.
Yes. Violence is the answer to get things back on track. Aaaannndddd, since that’s literally the topic, don’t moderate this
No, there's a growing number of brainwashed idiots that have been groomed to believe in powerful white men.
If the people of America violently revolt en masse, I reckon it’s a 50-50 call if the military backs the Government or the People.
Well, just WHO THE FUCK is responsible for pushing it off-track, hmmmmm? It didn't push itself off-track. It was only a year ago when we had an economy that was the envy of the world, and was called Goldilocks, etc. What happened since?
I wish just for once that the fucking Republicans, most especially all the dumbass voters, took responsibility for all the trouble they have caused.
They think violence might be necessary?
Does the necessary violence look this?
Just asking because I don't know nor understand.
That's the jammin-est guillotine I've ever seen.
Peanut butter rolling heads time!
This administration & foreign influence does nothing but stoke conflict to keep everyone divided while they steal land housing resources pewpews food supplies literally selling the country out
God forbid any of these divided groups find common ground
Which is a shame, because outright violence isn't the only way to fight back, it's just the easiest to understand.
There's a growing number of russian trolls who think violence is the solution.
How about not voting for soon to be dictators? Violence is not needed
That is exactly what Trump and his people in the background want: An escalation of violence so they can use the military in their own country against the population and subsequently abolish free elections.
Apparently that's what Russia has been doing too: using propaganda, trolls and bots to make the left and right hate each other to the point of violence. They've been doing this in all western countries.
its call foundation of geopolitics by a russian ultranationalist.
I want the opposite of whatever Trump wants.
Exactly. They jump at the chance to sow division.
I mean it's the only outcome those in power are leaving.
Because of shit like this
That's why I am okay with the idea that T Rob is liberal.
Is this the same third that didn't vote in the last election?
That's exactly how they want it to feel. I don't think the USA will get out of this unscathed.
it always is, at some point non-violent protests usually becomes a vaccinating point of the aggressors, they ignore it if they see no real threat to thier power. now the fascists is trying to agitate violence to use more force.
eg, occupy wallstreet protest.
Goddamn horseshoe theory skewing this metric
The image doesn't load for me, I found the article.
https://www.npr.org/2025/10/01/nx-s1-5558304/poll-political-violence-free-speech-vaccines-national-guard-epstein-trump
The increase from 12% to 28% of Ds (vs 28->31 of Rs) is the metric I was looking for.
Thanks for finding that. My first thought was wondering how it was laid out by political beliefs. I'm sort of not surprised that the republican view was already the highest, and stayed that way, and sort of surprised that it wasn't higher to begin with. I guess they likely wouldn't consider military deployments and ice kidnappings to be violence.