I don’t have an issue with lemmy.ml users but that’s because I don’t use sweeping generalizations. I’ve had perfectly acceptable conversations with people across all kinds of instances.
I’m not a tankie but am a fan of parts of communism and I like socialism.
I like socialism too. But I hate bootlicking authoritarian simps who pretend like they know shit about socialism because they read that one Lenin essay on Marxist.org
The problem is that folks see these things implemented in the past and say “let’s just do that.” Why can’t we take the good parts and think beyond the rest? These are systems that just won’t work with current population growth and resources. We can always do far and away better than capitalism, but I’ve talked to a handful of working class people that lived under communism for years and they have nothing good to say about it. Not a single positive thing. It’s easy to dream about these things and wax poetic when you don’t experience them firsthand.
Any time a path opens to seize power, humans fill that void regardless of what they believe in. Now suddenly we’ve traded authoritarian 1 for authoritarian 2. It makes no sense to me and I read both Lenin and Marx.
It's not even an issue of population. Communism requires material conditions you simply cannot create by killing the opposition, no matter how much you desire to preserve "the revolution."
Capitalism is but one manifestation of material and labor scarcity. Until those things are eliminated you will experience the exact same ills in one form or another. Until those things are eliminated the only option available is harm reduction. Revolutionary communism fails specifically because it fails to recognize itself as a particularly shitty form of harm reduction, insisting the entire concept is bourgeoise propaganda. This is what contemporary leftist theorists have come understand, and what obnoxious internet edgelords refuse to acknowledge, because it requires admitting that Stalin and Mao didn't get it right.
Ironically this is literally the foundation of Dengism and modern China, which MLs say they like, until you reduce it to first principles, at which point it once again becomes bourgeoise propaganda.
Until those things are eliminated you will experience the exact same ills in one form or another.
Under capitalism, stores throw perfectly good food in a padlocked bin while people starve. Investors speculate on empty properties while people die of exposure. Capitalism creates scarcity so that it can sell people the solution.
It's 2024, our technologies for agriculture, medicine, engineering, and education are amazing. In terms of the basic necessities of life, we are already a post scarcity civilisation. What we're lacking is a post scarcity economy to match it.
We can always do far and away better than capitalism
i think the real ticket, for global economics, especially ones that are going to be sustainable is going to be some sort of pseudo capitalist society. Especially one with a free market. Free market decentralization is a hard target to beat.
There's room for a lot of interesting study here, i'm not sure any exists, and i've yet to see any unfortunately, it's mostly just people dickwagging around trying to do the le socialism thing, which is funny, i guess.
My former officemate grew up in Russia in the 80s, he hated a shitload about growing up in the Soviet Union. He raved consistently about two things: the education system and gender equality.
His mother was a mathematician and computer programmer, and he didn't have issues with school there until after he'd been here (the US) as an exchange student and had some... Cultural differences with his teachers.
"People who smile a lot in Russia are considered to be unintelligent"
The problem is that folks see these things implemented in the past and say “let’s just do that.” Why can’t we take the good parts and think beyond the rest?
Of course we should! Every instance of socialism should adapt to the specific material conditions. There's not much reason to think that socialism in developed countries would look the same as socialism is pre-industrial societies.
It's just that in order to know what worked and what didn't, it's necessary to treat those projects as serious, earnest attempts at socialism and to be willing to point out both the positive and negative aspects. And doing that will immediately get you branded as a tankie by .world. Because in practice, tankie doesn't actually mean that you defend everything any socialist state ever did, it means that you defend anything a socialist state ever did. Thinking critically and trying to learn from the mistakes from the past makes you a tankie.
Dronies have a pathological need to distance themselves from every attempt at socialism (except the ones that failed, which can be upheld as perfect since they never had to implement their vision), which renders them unable to look at the past from an objective standpoint. They are more concerned with making sure everyone knows that they're "one of the good ones" than they are about studying and learning from the past. Tankies, otoh, are willing to own up to the facts and acknowledge that past projects were genuine attempts, even when they ultimately failed as the USSR did. Of course it would not have failed if it didn't have its flaws. But you will rarely see a dronie pushing this angle or interrogating the reasons for the failure, because learning from its mistakes is too close to treating it as as serious and legitimate project - far better (and easier!) to just write off the whole thing and push for shit that has only ever existed in your head and has never been tainted by contact with reality.
I’ve talked to a handful of working class people that lived under communism for years and they have nothing good to say about it. Not a single positive thing. It’s easy to dream about these things and wax poetic when you don’t experience them firsthand.
You should talk to some Australians instead. Australia's communist nations have been stripped of their land, so most australians alive today don't have much direct experience with communism, but the modern descendants of Australian communists all have good things to say about the way it was done 300 years ago what with the stateless, classless, moneyless gift economy.
What's worse on the internet these days is "Marxists" that have never read Marx, or just the Manifesto, yet think themselves an authority on the subject. I made an intro to Marxism reading list to help alleviate that, and try to point out misframings and misunderstandings of Marx when I see it, but it's still a huge issue across Lemmy. Particularly Lemmy.world.
You're absolutely right. I just signed up on .ml because I was a reddit refugee and it was one of the largest instances, and it got the fastest updates. Like a year later, suddenly everyone's talking about me like I'm part of some crazy cult. I bet well over half of .ml users don't even come close to the extreme stereotype, but are considering going to another instance just so we don't get bullied any more. It's likely going to be a self-fulfilling prophecy.
It pushes the lemmy.ml users who are normal out while angering and reinforcing the identity of the ones who are extreme.
Sure, whatever. That's what happened on X. The normal people are leaving and the Nazis are stuck in their hate bubble with no normal people to talk to. Let's do that.
i've had interactions with a lot of normal people on lemmy.ml, i've also had a lot of interactions with a lot of really fucking weird people on lemmy.ml
i'm also blanket banned on lemmy.ml as well, so that's fun. They don't really like dissenting opinion over there.
All of these spaces are permeated with foreign actors. Not all users, but I know a percentage of the users statistically have to be across all the large instances. I’m in tech and we’ve seen fake users appear in public Slack and Discord channels, try to schedule job interviews (it’s happened before), etc. The forces these governments have in tech behind the scenes is enormous, and there is no way to truly know who is and isn’t a state actor on the web.
We need more critical thinking. More separation of person from ideas. People get too hung up on figures.
Yes that's why I stated Stalin, Putin, and the CCP are ideologically opposed to socialism/communism. People who enjoy socialist concepts should be opposed to Lemmy.ml, not see common grounds with them.
Hey, I was you about 6 months ago. Same views, and then I was called a dirty imperialist just because I wasn't left enough. Like, these ML people are out for blood. They want a revolution and it's acceptable if people have to die to achieve it.
They want a revolution and it’s acceptable if people have to die to achieve it.
Yeah that's how revolutions work. Because the alternative, at least in theory, is more people dying of poverty, environmental pollution, institutionalized oppression, and other consequences of the current global economic system.
Anarchism is a political philosophy and movement that is against all forms of authority and seeks to abolish the institutions it claims maintain unnecessary coercion and hierarchy, typically including the state and capitalism.
Um. No. I rather enjoy having a government, just a government that isn't corrupted by the rich and actually takes care of its people like it's supposed to. That inherently necessitates it having authority.
That's not what the theory of communism aims for, but you do you.
Edit: to go in a bit more details, anarchism doesn't deny all authority, just authority gained by and used for coercion. A doctor would still have authority to recommend treatments, since they are more knowledgeable, for example. So that uncorrupted and caring government you want is simply a form of anarchism
That description does not contradict my words. It says about abolishing coercion and hierarchy, not authority
Edit: I re-read your reply. Yes, the part about being "against all forms of authority" is not entirely accurate, but the second part is true nonetheless. I suppose you could rephrase my example with the doctor and call it an "expertise" instead of authority, but the concept of it is people would still defer to specialists in specific fields that have more knowledge and experience than them.
As I'm new to the anarchism myself and do not wish to misrepresent its values, I think this this site might give you a better in-depth look
It's extremely telling that you are relying on Wikipedia for your understanding of Communism, rather than Marx, Engels, etc. You should read theory, if you want to start I made an introductory Marxist reading list.
i like to think of anarchism as the educated brother to the miscarried libertarian-ism.
It's harsh, but i've never seen a libertarian make a good point, or understand anything remotely relevant to government, so.
I think anarchy, by the very nature of it's existence is more suited to handle the challenges presented by no government existing, notably, a new government being created. Because anarchy is most often following a government collapse, and followed by a new government being created.
It's important to distinguish anarchy and anomie. The latter is the government collapse you mentioned, accompanied with lawlessness and lack of morals, while the former is simply lack of central overseeing authority (archism), for one reason or another.
The long term goal of anarchism is not destroying all governmental structures in one fell swoop, but rather gradually building communities based on liberty, solidarity and mutual help that don't require hierarchy or coercion to function.
Then those communities naturally take over governmental functions like protecting the people, the central government dissolves when it is no longer needed and the process doesn't harm anyone. No "new government" is created nor is necessary.
In terms of relationship between anarchism and libertarianism, I like to think of anarchists as a subset of libertarianists (since we all oppose authoritarianism fundamentally). I'll admit I'm not as familiar with other libertarian ideologies.
Sure, in the same way I appreciate Kant or Kierkegaard or any other modernist - as foundational thinkers who laid the groundwork for more contemporary ideas. The entire issue is that so many internet leftists take Marx as dogma, and are often poor students of philosophy outside of that very narrow context, yet will lecture you about how you only disagree with them because you haven't read enough year one polisci material. ML spaces are as dunning Kruger as the internet gets.
i've created this alt in the interim of finding a more permanent instance residence. Just got exhausted by the massive amount of shit they peddled over there.
It literally does though. I stopped telling people that I use Lemmy as a result. When some instance defederates from ML and establishes itself as being solid, I'd love to tell people irl that I use that.
If you are trying to say not to paint people with too broad of a brush, I get it, but also, we don't get to choose how others think of us, only what we will do in response.
All tankie users are in .ml, but not all .ml users are tankies.
You should always judge the merit of the comment, not whether or not the person is from .ml. If you see a comment that is pro-CCP or pro-Kremlin from an .ml user, then the point of the meme is valid. But a well-thought, benign, good-faith or wholesome comment from an .ml user should not be dismissed.
Not everyone in a nazi bar is a nazi. Let's hear them out and give them the benefit of the doubt even though they could go to literally any bar, but keep going to the nazi bar
Here's a tangentially related comic, as I just read the latter bit of your comment in that tone, (not saying you're guilty of the same things.)
Basically, because being directly pro-Russia is so see-through, a lot of bad actors merely sow FUD. For one check [email protected] if you want an example. A very polite person who lists links and sources (firehose of falsehood is also a soviet strategy btw).
Dude pretends to be American, talks American politics, but always in line with Russian propaganda, while saying things like "reality has a well known Russian propaganda bias" and absolutely refusing to address whether he is pro-Russian or not, despite very clearly having talking points which show he is strongly pro-Russian.
So either he's an American who fucking loves Soviet culture and larps being Russian, is actively against Ukraine and believes Russia was eight to invade it, so the least patriotic American to ever exist.
OR... (and I believe this to be a tad more likely) he's actually a lying Russian.
But Russians aren't known for disinformation and lies, right? Right....?
I have never seen .ml people engage in genocide apologia. They're fond of authoritarian governments which I find distasteful, but they aren't pro-genocide.
Does "be civil" include constantly shitting on huge groups of users just because of the instance they created their account on? There's a very simple solution for this if you truly believe an entire instance is worthless and it's called the blocking function, but I suppose that'd stop the joy you get out of loudly complaining about that instance repeatedly.
But theres a difference, when a .world mod defends genocide or promotes imperalism you know its ok because its in the name of Western Democracy ™. Tbh .ml and .world are basically in a competition on who can fling the most shit and who can bootlick the hardest.
As does ml. Worse even. But the fact that both do is a defense of neither. So I'm not sure why you even bring it up. Be better. World isn't tied to any particular political ideology. Ml 100% is. And if you mention absolute documented facts. You can and will be banned from there. Because the facts go against the narratives. World has its problems. But I haven't seen anything approaching that yet.
i assume "be civil" just means that you can't call people "dipshit asshole dumbass idiot" and things akin to that, i.e needless name calling, calling out perceived problems as long as done civilly, or being rude, but in a civil discussed manner, is i think fair game.
i.e. i could call this a stupid post because it covers what should be clearly demonstrated by common moderation history, i.e. these kinds of threads stay around for a while, these kinds of comments tend to stick around, and that's generally good enough reason to keep moderating as you are, precedent is a very strong thing.
but i couldn't just call you a dumbass because you should know this, and therefore you must be the most uneducated person in the history of humanity. Because that's not civil.
a) Huge groups of users well known to spread the promotion, praise and propaganda of dictatorships and other authoritarian governments, bigotry, racism and transphobia. Even when there are hard facts against them.
b) The Lemmy blocking function isn't anywhere as good as you think it is. Maybe even by design, the main admin on .ml is also the lead dev of Lemmy after all.
If you're mad at lemmy.ml users for doing those specific, detestable things, why not make make the meme to be about lemmy.ml users doing those specific, detestable things instead of any lemmy.ml user making any comment?
I actually didn't make this meme, I cross posted it from someone else on [email protected]
It's not like it's a minority of users on .ml doing it that the admins/mods just haven't brought the ban hammer down on. The admins are part of the problem along with mods cultivate the toxic tankie culture that gets shit on. It's the non-tankie .ml users who are in the minority, they should have chosen a better crowd to hang with.
yeah uh, that's the joke. That's the obviously implication of the joke here.
That's like saying that "all murderers are bad" and then me going "well hey don't you think is a little bit broad of a generalization? And unfair to people who were unfairly charged, or perhaps in inconvenient but justified circumstances?"
You could make the meme say "lemmy.ml tankies running free posting tankie bullshit" but that doesn't roll as well as "lemmy.ml doing tankie things because lemmy.ml seems to have no problem with tankies existing"
You could make the meme say "lemmy.ml tankies running free posting tankie bullshit" but that doesn't roll as well as "lemmy.ml doing tankie things because lemmy.ml seems to have no problem with tankies existing"
It did neither of those things though, so that's irrelevant. It just says it's a comment.
"Well known" is so patronizing. It's like OP is saying "yeah, everyone knows about this, what are you, some kind of loser?". Another one of those phrases that immediately discredits whatever allegation is to follow.
As a resident of a politically indifferent instance that is on good terms with everyone, I can say one thing:
Fuck absolutely everyone who turns Lemmy into yet another Internet battlefield.
Leave .ml alone. Leave Hexbear alone. Even yes - leave Lemmygrad alone. People there will not change their opinion when facing hatred, and newbies coming there doesn't change the big picture, as Lemmy is federated and they can figure stuff out for themselves.
Trying to silence entire instances, especially the biggest ones, is absolutely not a welcoming picture to whoever's coming here, and being cut out and filtered for happening to choose the "wrong" instance is the worst possible greeting.
Edit: thank you for real responses, got so used to be people getting pissed for no reason on social media that I was genuinely surprised to check Lemmy and see a bunch of genuine answers with no butthurt to be seen
The admins and mods cultivate a community of genocide denial and authoritarian apologism, which many users on the instance then buy into.
Why don’t you just block the instance
Instance blocking only blocks communities, not users, who still show up whenever there's a Chinese genocide to deny or a Russian atrocity to "WHATABOUT", or a non-Western aligned dictator to "BOTHSIDES".
When I accidentally blocked an instance, any comment from a user on that instance would be replaced by a message like "you have blocked this instance and so will not see this comment." I don't know if that's a feature of my client, Connect, or of lemmy itself.
The ml in lemmy ml means marxism-leninism, it's maintained by the lemmy devs so it has lots of "normal" users too. Some people associate lemmy.ml with "tankie" viewpoints.
Back 3y ago the users claimed it did mean marxist-leninist (or rather if we must be pedantic, that the TLD does mean Mali but they chose it because it meant marxist-leninist to them.) They stopped around the time of the exodus (read: they put on a mask to trap unsuspecting redditors) and they've ramped back up since everyone defederated hex and grad (my guess, those users created .ml alts specifically to proselytize to the unwilling like Evangelical roaches once their supply to feed their victim complex dried up.)
I choose not to block the instance because there is a very small group on there that have non-political discussions that I enjoy, same with hexbear.
I also don't like creating an echo chamber where all I hear is what I want to hear. Hearing from the other side, as disgusting as their viewpoints can be, at least let's me know how they think.
I like this view, because I have zero idea what I just walked in on. This account is just 16 days old and I'm just here to chat non-politics and doomscroll. And by 16 days old I mean like 4 because their acceptance email got sent to spam and I didn't notice it until then.
Tbh, I had no idea there were even factions or drama among the instances.
You should make an account on another instance, if you don't like the heavy hand of defederation of .world, lemmy.sdf.org is a good one and sh.itjust.works is another
There's also this community if you want to see for yourself the kind of behavior the admins and mods of .ml support, encourage and even participate in ![email protected]
Honestly, that's what I'm currently doing. I've always chuckled at the cleverness of the name sh.itjust.works. I started on .world, but I forgot to migrate my 2fa because I switched from Google Authenticator to an open source one on a new phone and didn't take my lemmy token for some damn reason.
I'm only switching because I'm a neutral entity online when it comes to politics and identity. I use the internet to escape that, not dive into it. I don't mind seeing it, I just move along and let people be people. I'd rather not be potentially tied to an image or faction by association; its nothing against .ml or anything.
Lemmy.ml admins will delete anything that doesn't support China or Russia, and they'll also delete anything that speaks positively of Western countries or concepts. Then they'll purge the logs so that there's no evidence that they're censoring basically everything.
I started on .ml, and left after a couple months when I realized I was the only person on the instance who wasn't a tanky fully committed to arguing with every post I see. They seem to have toned down a bit after getting defederated a couple times, but there are a lot of extremists on that instance, and they're very loud. I felt like I was in a Chinese political re-education camp half the time.
In my experience, the mods on lemmy.ml are particularly biased. Like it's okay to joke about American school shootings but not about abortions biased. But after a while I just stopped posting there. (I barely post to lemmy at all now, but that's another story.)
Lemmy has a very different community than Reddit - here, people are often outright kind.
In part that's a large reason for the beef with Lemmy.ml, e.g. recently a mod there removed comments for a user over a misunderstanding in a game, and in the process said that they (the MOD!) wanted to shoot them (the OP), doubling down and even tripping down to say "I hope you die soon". (Described in more detail here.)
It is ironic that one of the very first Lemmy instances, and also being the one whose admins are also the developers of the Lemmy sourcecode, is so much less like the rest of the people on Lemmy, and more like Reddit. But it is what it is.
Lemmy.ml is admin'd and moderated mostly by Marxists, and the liberal side of Lemmy is hostile to that. That's the principle contradiction, everything else stems from that core issue.
Nah, one of my kids are vegetarian and I cook to support them. I have no issues with vegans. I see how it came across that way though.
I suspect you must have missed the .ml vegan community drama a couple months ago. Take every bad stereotype about vegans and ramp it to 11. Everything was in bad faith. It bled into a couple different communities.
Tbf, guess what the comms I got banned from are, and guess why? Vegan subs, "carnist propaganda."
I'm just saying, don't make a post bemoaning "why do people hate vegans" and then ban the guy saying "because they often behave like evangelical christians." I got kicked out of church for much the same reason, ironically.
I'm talking to people on Lemmy.ml who say things like "Reality has a well known Russian propaganda bias", "Russia was right to invade Ukraine, it needs to be denazified", "Uighur genocide is made up", etc, etc etc, I wouldn't call that "internal left fighting"
It's not that we're judging all .ml users. It's just that any .ml user can be a potential tankie who will defend Putin to his grave, like the admins and mods.
This is reflected in the content on the instance, and what sort of things you're allowed to post there. Which does influence people using said instance, even if very slightly, and unnoticeably.
I don't actually agree with the meme, but the humour stems from the fact that it could be true insofar that it's pretty often that you'll find shameless tankies wanting to suck Putler off and destroy "western imperialists".
So I do take comments at their own value, no matter the instance you're from. But lemmy.ml is almost as shit as lemmygrad.ml
In which things is someone allowed to think differently from the US Democratic party before they are expelled from the left?
And fuck Putin, btw. But there are people with widely diverse points of view on an incredibly amount of matters, that can have common grounds on many other issues. And, at least for me, they'll need to try harder that just being putin's useful idiots to be expelled from my definition of what the "left" is.
Especially on a matter as complex as Ukraine war. That I gladly support arming and helping Ukraine, and my country will keep arming and helping Ukraine when USA steps back once Trump sits in the office. But I still understand that is a complex issue and that different points of view are expected. I have mine, which is support for Ukraine. Others may support Russia on this. But as long as we both agree on other issues I won't deny that. If they support end of capitalism, workers rights, LGBT rights or gender equality we would have common ground on those topics.
But I still understand that is a complex issue and that different points of view are expected. I have mine, which is support for Ukraine.
Russia invaded Ukraine. That's a war of aggression. Russia is wrong in this. Don't pretend like it's a "complex issue" and "we need to listen to both sides".
No, we don't. Russia is the aggressor, they're in the wrong, they need to fuck off from Ukraine and Putin be held responsible in a court of international law. There's no ifs ands or buts about it.
"We could have common ground..."
Yeah I don't need to have any common ground with people who actively lie, spread disinformation, undermine legitimate information, deny international crimes, deny genocides, spread values of authoritarian nations.
I don't even identify with any left-right division but I'm definitely not what you'd call an "enlightened centrist", because that's a garbage position for garbage people who are afraid of any sort of confrontation.
About a bit less than a hundred years ago there were discussion like "we need to appease this Hitler fellow, seems awfully mad" "maybe if we don't protest over him taking the Sudetenland, he'll calm down?"
Would you be intellectually arguing the merits of Hitler's invasion of Sudetenland as "a complex issue, you have to consider both sides"?
I have a stance. I did say I support Ukraine. Same I say I'm clearly leftist.
But you don't need to stop being able to think just because you support a side. You can support a side and still understand the complexity of the issue, and that you are supporting the lesser evil.
I still support Ukraine on this. Mostly because Russia initiated hostilities, and because I think the European Union is a better place to live than Russia. We protect people's rights better. But it's a complex issue because there are people in some Ukrainian regions that does not want to be Ukrainian anymore, and that does not want to be forced to move away from Russian influence. And this is clearly a proxy war between two empires.
I don't need to think "all opinions are equal" to be "able to think". I don't need to accept Russians saying they've done nothing wrong and to "consider it from their point of view." Russia broke international law.
It's not a complex issue.
Oh yeah the old "no there's definitely people who actually want to be Russians in the parts of Ukraine Russia invaded illegally so they should probably maybe be able to keep those illegally invaded areas." No. Is there documentation of, say, Ukrainian people voting in Russian elections? That might imply they consider themselves Russians, right? Yes, there is documentation of that.
You can say you support Ukraine, and still be apologist for Russia. Those aren't mutually exclusive.
"You are so radical in your views."
You're literally an apologist for Russian authoritarianism. You're spreading the propaganda that occupied Ukrainians actually want to be Russians. That is bullshit that Russia has been spreading for years. It's not controversial either. You just keep yourself ignorant, and probably didn't even click on the link I pasted, and definitely didn't read it. And you have the nerve to talk to me about the "ability to think"?
"Our citizens are very afraid. Of course if Russians with soldiers come to their flat and ask if they'd like to vote for Putin, everyone will say: OK, yes. Because everyone wants to save their life. But it does not mean that our citizens want to support Putin."
One resident of the Kherson region - the south-eastern part which is occupied by Russian forces - described to the BBC how voting was organised in his village.
We are unable to disclose his name or location due to security concerns.
"Pro-Russian locals visit households with ballot boxes, accompanied by armed military men. If they knock and no one opens, they move on to the next house. They don't break into houses, but they do visit," the local resident said.
They added: "This is ridiculous. What kind of election is it when there are two locals - one holding a list of voters and the other a ballot box - and a military man with a machine gun? This isn't democracy. It's a comedy show."
News agencies run by the pro-Kremlin administrations in Donetsk and Luhansk are reporting that up to 99.23% of people voted in favour of joining Russia - a high percentage that would be unusual in a vote of this nature.
Like you can't... or won't call bullshit on things like ^ that?
You supposedly being "for Ukraine" doesn't really matter when you're touting Russian propaganda, consciously or not.
i joined .ml as it was the first instance i come across when trying lemmy out. Iv heard the admins are tankies but to be honest i dont actually know what a tankie is. i just use lemmy to look at memes and follow foss communities. i try to block all political stuff as i want to enjoy my exprience and stay ignorant to the politics here.
The lemmy.ml instance is known to have admins, mods and users that spread the promotion, praise and propaganda of dictatorships and other authoritarian governments, bigotry, racism and transphobia. Even when there are hard facts against them.
How about China is, in fact, a dictatorship for starters
That could be true. But I wonder, in general, what is the process for determining whether a country is a dictatorship or not, from the outside? China claims to be a democracy and holds elections, like just about every other country under the sun. Of course, not every country with elections is actually a democracy, but if we're talking "hard facts" I think we need to be able to point to specific, objective things.
The Communist in “Chinese Communist Party” is just there for show.
Isn't the Chinese Communist Party the single largest self-identifying communist party in the world? Shouldn't that factor in, like, at least a little bit into our standards for what defines a communist party? Regardless, this is kind of just your subjective opinion, isn't it? Again, what specific, objective standards are you looking at to distinguish between "real" communism and "fake" communism?
Allowing a fascist to become dictator of the USA will get millions more people genocided than voting for a liberal.
Telling the truth about a liberal, when that truth contains a call to action not to vote against fascism, will get millions more people genocided than shutting up about a liberal.
That's quite a claim. If the US is set to genocide millions of people, then as people at risk of being victims of that, surely we should be treating the US government as the primary threat to our safety, correct?
hmm, I wonder why many other instances dislikes .ml so much. It couldn't possibly have to do with them praising and spreading the propaganda of authoritarian governments so much.
I was on ml and it was pretty chill for a non-tankie. Until a mod powertripped and ban me for insulting an homophobe. Some people like me join the instance without knowing of all this tankie thing. IMO, hexbear is far more toxic.
For the record, I joined lemmy.ml back in 2021 when it was the most popular instance. I had no idea about their issues, and have since created an alt account on lemm.ee.
If only that were true! That does help a bit, but it acts only as a community mute rather than more like an instance defederation or a user block would. You'll see ML users brigading posts and random users with the most off the wall takes imaginable - I think bc they get used to the style of moderation inside their echo chamber and so have difficulties leaving it behind. Tbf after the USA elections a lot of that seems to have died down.
Tbf, there are people on ML who I've enjoyed conversing with, so it's not all one way as the meme seems to convey. However, it is quite a noticeable pattern where 9 times out of 10 the comments that are the most batshit insane that I've ever seen (and don't come from hexbear.net or lemmygrad.ml) are from a user on lemmy.ml. Make of that what you will - I used to argue strongly against that, but the weight of continued observation has caused me to switch sides on that argument.
I see where you're coming from. If they're not defederated and those posts are going to pop up anyway, then I can control it I see those posts or not. In my experience (same as yours), the vast majority of ml posts aren't worth reading anyways so why not filter them out?
Yeah it's not nothing that you can filter the posts from those communities, but it sure would be nice if you could filter the users as well. Which I can do on PieFed, and the Sync and Connect apps (but not the base web UI or apps like Voyager) allow true instance blocking for Lemmy, or Lemmy.cafe, quokk.au, and dubvee.org have all defederated from lemmy.ml (along with hexbear.net and lemmygrad.ml).
Even better could be to keep the users but put a label warning that the instance is known for being a bit troll-y 🧌 and crazy - and surely if they wanted they could put labels onto our accounts in return like "warning this user is from the West so is deluded by all the capitalist pig nonsense 🐖 🐷💩🐽, remember that they don't know the True ML communiist thoughts that only us true believers do".
And even then I wonder how many of those people actually trolling from ML are simply hexbear alts - several have outright admitted that, citing how their ML account predated their HB one, yet acknowledging all the same the choice to use the ML one after the HB one was defederated with, to continue the same activities that they did before that, translation: no means yes to them. Either way the admins allow it and so really who cares so long as their freedom to speak does not forcibly overwrite my willingness to not have to listen.
whats wrong with lemmy.ml? i tried bunch of different instances last month, and fedaration works best on this one, when i use other instances i cant even see the posts on some small communities i follow
Ah, yea no. I have no problems with the idea of communism and like socialism.
However, the "communism" you and your fellow tankies love to spread, is authoritarianism/dictatorship with a communism mask like the CCP or Russia. Along with racism, bigotry and transphobia sprinkled in.
Along with racism, bigotry and transphobia sprinkled in.
Bold words, but I run into way more bigotry and racism while/after posting on .world vs posting in .ml spaces.
Nutomic is a shithead for failing to address his transphobia, if he ever posts in /c/transgender I'll ban him myself.
authoritarianism/dictatorship with a communism mask like the CCP or Russia.
Russia is not pretending to be communist, wtf are you on? do you mean USSR? if anything I've run into way more cutting critiques of existing/historical socialist states among actual communists in these spaces as opposed to carnival barkers with a tenuous grasp on history.
The racism allegations also kind of sound like projection in this context considering on of the main controversies I've seen about bans here are for banning people being weirdly racist and choosing to die on the hill of depicting the president of China as a yellow cartoon animal.
Lol, ig "egocentric" should be part of the official tankie toolkit, and yes you were tagged a tankie a long time ago.
These posts aren't for you, they're for swaying sane .ml users to leave, showing the true colors of .ml to newbies as quickly as possible and to hopefully encourage non-.ml users to avoid posting and commenting on .ml communities
Assuming this to be a working strategy (and not a way of swaying new users out of Lemmy in general), what's the endgame? If everyone you deem "sane" leaves the place, it will just be even worse, a concentrated "tankie" circlejerk, visible to plenty of newbies. Then what?
it will just be even worse, a concentrated "tankie" circlejerk
It's already a tankie circle jerk over there, you can't concentrate what's already concentrated.
visible to plenty of newbies. Then what?
Visible yes, but its a LOT easier to say "Oh yea that's the tankie instance, they're small so just block it and move on" rather than
"Oh yea that's the tankie instance, but they're also one of the biggest instances, so if you block them you'll be cutting off a decent chunk of non-tankie content"
So many stories of "I signed up on .ml because it was one of the biggest, then I realized it was full of Tankies and signed up elsewhere" and if there's stories of that, there's probably many more where the person just left and never came back because what they saw was a place was full of toxic tankies
For me posts like this just make me embarrassed to be on Lemmy in general. It's like making a post about how you get upset when you get an email from a Gmail account.
Yeah. Lemmy was a good idea but I don't think it's user base will ever be good enough to make this a pleasant place for good communities to thrive. And it's not because of tankies or liberals, it's because of assholes.
Okay, if you feel embarrassed do something about it. No one's going to stop arguing just because you feel embarrassed. Furthermore, the reason people are bashing people on ml is because their collective behavior has been atrocious. Here's some things you could try:
Advocate for a culture of better inter-instance conduct between ml and other platforms (this will likely get you ridiculed and if it ever works, it won't be soon.)
Get on an instance that isn't as hostile (highly recommended)
Leave the platform (this will produce the most immediate and thorough results)
Edit: ah, look at that, the Russians woke up and the downvotes are pouring in.
Its insane how much shit .ml and .world users fling at eachother. Ml is filled with smug historical revisionist authoritarians and Russia bootlicking other empire supporting "anti-imperalists", meanwhile .world is filled with genocide apologizing western imperialists and neoliberal bootlickers for the capitalist class. Genuenly im not sure which is worse but they're both obnoxious and unbearable, imperialism is imperialism regardless of the empire.
The ML mod in a game community telling a user that they wanted to shoot them, then doubled down on that, then tripled down still further with "I hope you die soon" points to systemic issues (such issues are widespread and well-known, as well as the entire-instance perma-bans routinely dished out by the admins themselves; you can directly read the mods own words for this particular event here).
LW mods have some issues as well, but e.g. recently the one responsible for this latest string of short 24-hr bans has already apologized within hours of the occurrence, in another comment citing a potential misunderstanding of the extent to which she was asked by admins to have done so and acknowledging her own biases that lead to that (event).
They are nowhere close to being the same. Definitely in degree at least if not entirely in kind.
No idea, but even if so, a single mod (?) vs. an entire instance admin team are again nowhere near the same, for people who care about more than just that one singular issue.
Moreover, and again even if so, a nuanced take on a supremely complicated issue would again be nowhere close to a DIRECT statement about wanting to be the one who ACTUALLY kills the person ("I want to shoot you because..."), ending with "I hope you die soon", seems again to be nowhere close to the same degree.
People are people and nobody's perfect, but this kinda of both-sides-ism does not sit well with me. That's not how we fix things irl, by being hasty with diagnoses and then going off half-cocked without a proper understanding of what needs to be done in order to achieve the desired end goal.
Then again, neither of us have much skin in this game, both being on different instances so looking in at that fight from the outside:-). Except it's easy to just instance block Lemmy.World communities and never have to interact with those admins or mods anymore, while it is extraordinarily difficult to defederate from the non-admin, non-mod regular users of ML spewing toxicity into communities located not on their home instance. That irks me, bc I wish for my consent to have mattered, but it takes enormous efforts to constantly block the trolls one by one.
From what ive heard its several .world admins, yeah obviously telling a person to die sucks but imo it seems worse to say an entire people deserves to die. Also I didnt say "both sides" I explained why both sides suck for unique reasons.
I guess I was reacting to "Genuenly im not sure which is worse", but yeah you explained why. ML has both admins (+mods) and also users spewing toxicity while for Lemmy.World it's mostly just admins (+mods) that people complain about, but not the users, beyond what might be expected from any large instance filled to the brim with Reddit refugees.:-)
But anyway it's good to join communities and especially to post to those outside of Lemmy.World for other reasons as well, chiefly that it's not taking full advantage of the concept of federation if everything is all concentrated onto just one instance.
And all of this drama is a perfect example as to why that matters: people wouldn't care so much what one mod did (I am not even subscribed to that community in the first place, in fact I blocked it long ago) or one set of admins if similar communities were distributed elsewhere all around the Fediverse. Federation is supposed to bring freedom, but that comes only if we decide to make use of it.
Tankie Toxicity should be called out regardless of background or age. In fact, a teenager should be exposed to the true authoritarianism roots more so so there's a chance they don't become permanently part of the tankie cult
What is the real joke is categorizing people by which Lemmy instance they sign up to, and justifying it with a weak truism that "people self select for communities". I believe it is utterly stupid, and t can also be motivated. In Lemmy.ml I have met some of the brighter minds of our generation.
In all good faith, I am an anarchist who found ml randomly from some Privacy/Open Source searches. I signed up because I thought it was cool to be admitted in the flagship instance and I liked the anti-bigotry guidelines. Then I found out about all the drama, and I have zero fucks to give about inter-instance beefs. ML let's me be, and I had no serious issues so far, I mostly like the crowd there, coming from Reddit even more so.
This is moronic, and I shouldn't validate it with an answer. There are tons of trans users in ml and I hardly think any of them holds any favourable views on him.
Here's the thing though, you'll be unable to convince us that .ml aren't stupid shitheads because we're here too, we see them too, we talk to them too and share in the experience just like you do, some (like me) going on 3y+ now. You can't fool us because we experience it firsthand, you can only succeed in convincing us that you don't see the problem because you're one of "the problem."
I always aspired to be a problem. But see you have no justification for this statement. You are just lumping together everyone who shares a lemmy.ml address without an iota of data other than your personal impressions. This is just plain lamentable.
Having said that, I hold extreme views right enough, since I don't think there is such a thing as a middle ground to fascism. Do you see my 100% no-pasaran as a problem? And if yes, how low are you willing to stoop before setting your priorities right?
Well, if literally everyone I've tried to get to sign up but it didn't take are to be believed, it's the tankies. I try to explain they can use keywords to at least limit it but by then they're mad about me "hanging out at a nazi bar" and explaining "no they're really more Nazbols" somehow just isn't helping my case. Even when they give it a second shot (rare) they quit when they figure out "rule 2 be nice" means "you can't say anything we don't like even if you're nice and we're going to be insufferable cunts with impunity because our admins are hypocrites that back us."
When lemmy.ml answer detected:
I like to get them going. I respond with "that's BS" or "prove it" and they give me a essay
More energy efficient GPT?
I don’t have an issue with lemmy.ml users but that’s because I don’t use sweeping generalizations. I’ve had perfectly acceptable conversations with people across all kinds of instances.
I’m not a tankie but am a fan of parts of communism and I like socialism.
I like socialism too. But I hate bootlicking authoritarian simps who pretend like they know shit about socialism because they read that one Lenin essay on Marxist.org
The problem is that folks see these things implemented in the past and say “let’s just do that.” Why can’t we take the good parts and think beyond the rest? These are systems that just won’t work with current population growth and resources. We can always do far and away better than capitalism, but I’ve talked to a handful of working class people that lived under communism for years and they have nothing good to say about it. Not a single positive thing. It’s easy to dream about these things and wax poetic when you don’t experience them firsthand.
Any time a path opens to seize power, humans fill that void regardless of what they believe in. Now suddenly we’ve traded authoritarian 1 for authoritarian 2. It makes no sense to me and I read both Lenin and Marx.
It's not even an issue of population. Communism requires material conditions you simply cannot create by killing the opposition, no matter how much you desire to preserve "the revolution."
Capitalism is but one manifestation of material and labor scarcity. Until those things are eliminated you will experience the exact same ills in one form or another. Until those things are eliminated the only option available is harm reduction. Revolutionary communism fails specifically because it fails to recognize itself as a particularly shitty form of harm reduction, insisting the entire concept is bourgeoise propaganda. This is what contemporary leftist theorists have come understand, and what obnoxious internet edgelords refuse to acknowledge, because it requires admitting that Stalin and Mao didn't get it right.
Ironically this is literally the foundation of Dengism and modern China, which MLs say they like, until you reduce it to first principles, at which point it once again becomes bourgeoise propaganda.
Under capitalism, stores throw perfectly good food in a padlocked bin while people starve. Investors speculate on empty properties while people die of exposure. Capitalism creates scarcity so that it can sell people the solution.
It's 2024, our technologies for agriculture, medicine, engineering, and education are amazing. In terms of the basic necessities of life, we are already a post scarcity civilisation. What we're lacking is a post scarcity economy to match it.
i think the real ticket, for global economics, especially ones that are going to be sustainable is going to be some sort of pseudo capitalist society. Especially one with a free market. Free market decentralization is a hard target to beat.
There's room for a lot of interesting study here, i'm not sure any exists, and i've yet to see any unfortunately, it's mostly just people dickwagging around trying to do the le socialism thing, which is funny, i guess.
My former officemate grew up in Russia in the 80s, he hated a shitload about growing up in the Soviet Union. He raved consistently about two things: the education system and gender equality.
His mother was a mathematician and computer programmer, and he didn't have issues with school there until after he'd been here (the US) as an exchange student and had some... Cultural differences with his teachers.
"People who smile a lot in Russia are considered to be unintelligent"
Of course we should! Every instance of socialism should adapt to the specific material conditions. There's not much reason to think that socialism in developed countries would look the same as socialism is pre-industrial societies.
It's just that in order to know what worked and what didn't, it's necessary to treat those projects as serious, earnest attempts at socialism and to be willing to point out both the positive and negative aspects. And doing that will immediately get you branded as a tankie by .world. Because in practice, tankie doesn't actually mean that you defend everything any socialist state ever did, it means that you defend anything a socialist state ever did. Thinking critically and trying to learn from the mistakes from the past makes you a tankie.
Dronies have a pathological need to distance themselves from every attempt at socialism (except the ones that failed, which can be upheld as perfect since they never had to implement their vision), which renders them unable to look at the past from an objective standpoint. They are more concerned with making sure everyone knows that they're "one of the good ones" than they are about studying and learning from the past. Tankies, otoh, are willing to own up to the facts and acknowledge that past projects were genuine attempts, even when they ultimately failed as the USSR did. Of course it would not have failed if it didn't have its flaws. But you will rarely see a dronie pushing this angle or interrogating the reasons for the failure, because learning from its mistakes is too close to treating it as as serious and legitimate project - far better (and easier!) to just write off the whole thing and push for shit that has only ever existed in your head and has never been tainted by contact with reality.
You should talk to some Australians instead. Australia's communist nations have been stripped of their land, so most australians alive today don't have much direct experience with communism, but the modern descendants of Australian communists all have good things to say about the way it was done 300 years ago what with the stateless, classless, moneyless gift economy.
What's worse on the internet these days is "Marxists" that have never read Marx, or just the Manifesto, yet think themselves an authority on the subject. I made an intro to Marxism reading list to help alleviate that, and try to point out misframings and misunderstandings of Marx when I see it, but it's still a huge issue across Lemmy. Particularly Lemmy.world.
That's why I think they're astroturfers. I mean how else are you going to deter people from a political idea without being completely insufferable?
The communism is a facade for their propaganda, and it also bolsters extremist discourse. Win-win for them.
You're absolutely right. I just signed up on .ml because I was a reddit refugee and it was one of the largest instances, and it got the fastest updates. Like a year later, suddenly everyone's talking about me like I'm part of some crazy cult. I bet well over half of .ml users don't even come close to the extreme stereotype, but are considering going to another instance just so we don't get bullied any more. It's likely going to be a self-fulfilling prophecy.
I'm not even a .ml user and posts like these are pushing me to switch to their instance lol.
Sure, whatever. That's what happened on X. The normal people are leaving and the Nazis are stuck in their hate bubble with no normal people to talk to. Let's do that.
i've had interactions with a lot of normal people on lemmy.ml, i've also had a lot of interactions with a lot of really fucking weird people on lemmy.ml
i'm also blanket banned on lemmy.ml as well, so that's fun. They don't really like dissenting opinion over there.
All of these spaces are permeated with foreign actors. Not all users, but I know a percentage of the users statistically have to be across all the large instances. I’m in tech and we’ve seen fake users appear in public Slack and Discord channels, try to schedule job interviews (it’s happened before), etc. The forces these governments have in tech behind the scenes is enormous, and there is no way to truly know who is and isn’t a state actor on the web.
We need more critical thinking. More separation of person from ideas. People get too hung up on figures.
Except on .ml that "critical thinking" you're talking about is western anti Bolshevik propaganda to them and you'll be banned.
That's the problem with .ml, you just get banned.
Sounds like you might like anarchism
I do have some anarchist tendencies.
we do a little bit of dbzer0ing
Nothing about a dictatorship is public ownership.
*ism is just a tool for any aspiring autocrat. Stalin would have been far-right if he saw it as being a valid pathway towards power.
Effective tyrants are forever pragmatic and never burdened by ideological loyalty.
Yes that's why I stated Stalin, Putin, and the CCP are ideologically opposed to socialism/communism. People who enjoy socialist concepts should be opposed to Lemmy.ml, not see common grounds with them.
Hey, I was you about 6 months ago. Same views, and then I was called a dirty imperialist just because I wasn't left enough. Like, these ML people are out for blood. They want a revolution and it's acceptable if people have to die to achieve it.
Yeah that's how revolutions work. Because the alternative, at least in theory, is more people dying of poverty, environmental pollution, institutionalized oppression, and other consequences of the current global economic system.
The CCP nad Putin cucks aren't even leftists, like at all. ML and Hexbear supported Donald Trump because he is anti-NATO.
I hate when leftists punch down on other leftists. It’s not a competition!
Probably why you don't have issues with Lemmy.ml users.
Im the same, I like socialism and the theory of communism is nice.
I don't like .ml users because they hardcore believe and spread the bastardized authoritarianism-based CCP/Russian propaganda version of communism.
Right. They're opposed to socialism and what the hold up as communism is actually Fascism with a heavy dose of State Capitalism.
What you're looking for is anarchism. Aka libertarian socialism.
Um. No. I rather enjoy having a government, just a government that isn't corrupted by the rich and actually takes care of its people like it's supposed to. That inherently necessitates it having authority.
That's not what the theory of communism aims for, but you do you.
Edit: to go in a bit more details, anarchism doesn't deny all authority, just authority gained by and used for coercion. A doctor would still have authority to recommend treatments, since they are more knowledgeable, for example. So that uncorrupted and caring government you want is simply a form of anarchism
Either you're thinking of something else or you should go update Wikipedia then, because that's where I got that description from.
That description does not contradict my words. It says about abolishing coercion and hierarchy, not authority
Edit: I re-read your reply. Yes, the part about being "against all forms of authority" is not entirely accurate, but the second part is true nonetheless. I suppose you could rephrase my example with the doctor and call it an "expertise" instead of authority, but the concept of it is people would still defer to specialists in specific fields that have more knowledge and experience than them.
As I'm new to the anarchism myself and do not wish to misrepresent its values, I think this this site might give you a better in-depth look
It's extremely telling that you are relying on Wikipedia for your understanding of Communism, rather than Marx, Engels, etc. You should read theory, if you want to start I made an introductory Marxist reading list.
i like to think of anarchism as the educated brother to the miscarried libertarian-ism.
It's harsh, but i've never seen a libertarian make a good point, or understand anything remotely relevant to government, so.
I think anarchy, by the very nature of it's existence is more suited to handle the challenges presented by no government existing, notably, a new government being created. Because anarchy is most often following a government collapse, and followed by a new government being created.
It's important to distinguish anarchy and anomie. The latter is the government collapse you mentioned, accompanied with lawlessness and lack of morals, while the former is simply lack of central overseeing authority (archism), for one reason or another.
The long term goal of anarchism is not destroying all governmental structures in one fell swoop, but rather gradually building communities based on liberty, solidarity and mutual help that don't require hierarchy or coercion to function.
Then those communities naturally take over governmental functions like protecting the people, the central government dissolves when it is no longer needed and the process doesn't harm anyone. No "new government" is created nor is necessary.
In terms of relationship between anarchism and libertarianism, I like to think of anarchists as a subset of libertarianists (since we all oppose authoritarianism fundamentally). I'll admit I'm not as familiar with other libertarian ideologies.
You can still appreciate Karl Marx’s Manifesto without endorsing the Soviet Union or China.
Sure, in the same way I appreciate Kant or Kierkegaard or any other modernist - as foundational thinkers who laid the groundwork for more contemporary ideas. The entire issue is that so many internet leftists take Marx as dogma, and are often poor students of philosophy outside of that very narrow context, yet will lecture you about how you only disagree with them because you haven't read enough year one polisci material. ML spaces are as dunning Kruger as the internet gets.
Non-tankies on .ML getting upset at this:
You might not be an idiot, but you're wearing a T-shirt that says "I AM AN IDIOT" in bold letters across your chest. Maybe change your shirt. 🤷🏻♂️
i've created this alt in the interim of finding a more permanent instance residence. Just got exhausted by the massive amount of shit they peddled over there.
Lemmy.sdf.org is a good one with a "very light touch" attitude towards defederating instances of what you're interested in
Sh.itjust.works is also a good one with great admins I've heard (and also funny name)
I hear a lot a spam comes from shi.itjust.works
I've seen people say this, but haven't actually seen it outside of one asshat who picked a fight with Beehaw a year+ ago.
As a user I've had a pretty great experience personally.
I've just heard from other mods that it can be a source of problems
Could be the case of a vocal minority. The biggest complaints I have scene is that the instance admins allow whatever
TODO: pedal vs peddle.
I bet there's not a gratuitous amount of bicycling going on over in .ml land, but I could be mistaken.
fixed from 'pedalled' to 'peddled'. I've met a decent number of Marxist cyclists, so i could believe it.
Could be, I'm no expert on cycling.
Come to .nz! Our admin has the best track record on trans rights out of any instance drag is aware of.
dbzer0 is chill if you like the more corner posting type shit, as well as some piracy related shit.
to better analogize this, you're hanging around a nazi rally trying to find friends, and people keep calling you a nazi for some reason.
Weird.
As a Lemmy user I don't care for this
I feel like Lemmy has the reputation of being Tankie
It's a metaphor since tankies don't seem to exist or make a difference in real life
They'd have to go outside to do that.
average lemming experience really.
It literally does though. I stopped telling people that I use Lemmy as a result. When some instance defederates from ML and establishes itself as being solid, I'd love to tell people irl that I use that.
If you are trying to say not to paint people with too broad of a brush, I get it, but also, we don't get to choose how others think of us, only what we will do in response.
There are a few tankies on other instances. The difference is that they get in trouble when they act out.
relatable
Looks at username
Wait a minute...
:(
:(
):
:(
:)
:3
>:3
All tankie users are in .ml, but not all .ml users are tankies.
You should always judge the merit of the comment, not whether or not the person is from .ml. If you see a comment that is pro-CCP or pro-Kremlin from an .ml user, then the point of the meme is valid. But a well-thought, benign, good-faith or wholesome comment from an .ml user should not be dismissed.
Not everyone in a nazi bar is a nazi. Let's hear them out and give them the benefit of the doubt even though they could go to literally any bar, but keep going to the nazi bar
Except the pro-Russians won't say they're pro-Russians.
A lot of Russian propaganda is just sowing FUD.
Here's a tangentially related comic, as I just read the latter bit of your comment in that tone, (not saying you're guilty of the same things.)
Basically, because being directly pro-Russia is so see-through, a lot of bad actors merely sow FUD. For one check [email protected] if you want an example. A very polite person who lists links and sources (firehose of falsehood is also a soviet strategy btw).
Dude pretends to be American, talks American politics, but always in line with Russian propaganda, while saying things like "reality has a well known Russian propaganda bias" and absolutely refusing to address whether he is pro-Russian or not, despite very clearly having talking points which show he is strongly pro-Russian.
So either he's an American who fucking loves Soviet culture and larps being Russian, is actively against Ukraine and believes Russia was eight to invade it, so the least patriotic American to ever exist.
OR... (and I believe this to be a tad more likely) he's actually a lying Russian.
But Russians aren't known for disinformation and lies, right? Right....?
I used to be on ml when I first joined lemmy because I did know better, now I love my instance.
Developer: makes platform
End User: "Fuck you."
Tale as old as time.
But unlike Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, and Larry Page, the good folks at .ml did nothing wrong.
Genocide apologia is 'nothing wrong' to you, I see. Unsurprising.
It's UnderpantsWeevil, our very own local .world tankie
I have never seen .ml people engage in genocide apologia. They're fond of authoritarian governments which I find distasteful, but they aren't pro-genocide.
Go ask about the Uyghurs in China over there and get back to me
A while back they were calling for the total destruction of France
Ask them about the Uyghur genocide or the ongoing genocide of Ukrainians or the Holodomor or the deportation of the Crimean Tatars or etc etc etc etc
Drag has seen many .mls say "Democrats are Republicans are exactly the same."
The difference between Harris 2024 vs Trump 2024 is one genocide vs three. That's millions of lives.
Drag has seen many .mls deny the loss of millions of Palestinian, Ukrainian, and transgender lives to push their agenda.
Genocide denial is wrong.
Stop with the sensationalism
Does "be civil" include constantly shitting on huge groups of users just because of the instance they created their account on? There's a very simple solution for this if you truly believe an entire instance is worthless and it's called the blocking function, but I suppose that'd stop the joy you get out of loudly complaining about that instance repeatedly.
.world consistently removes memes calling out their own communities. But they leave up any "meme" bashing .ml
But theres a difference, when a .world mod defends genocide or promotes imperalism you know its ok because its in the name of Western Democracy ™. Tbh .ml and .world are basically in a competition on who can fling the most shit and who can bootlick the hardest.
As does ml. Worse even. But the fact that both do is a defense of neither. So I'm not sure why you even bring it up. Be better. World isn't tied to any particular political ideology. Ml 100% is. And if you mention absolute documented facts. You can and will be banned from there. Because the facts go against the narratives. World has its problems. But I haven't seen anything approaching that yet.
i assume "be civil" just means that you can't call people "dipshit asshole dumbass idiot" and things akin to that, i.e needless name calling, calling out perceived problems as long as done civilly, or being rude, but in a civil discussed manner, is i think fair game.
i.e. i could call this a stupid post because it covers what should be clearly demonstrated by common moderation history, i.e. these kinds of threads stay around for a while, these kinds of comments tend to stick around, and that's generally good enough reason to keep moderating as you are, precedent is a very strong thing.
but i couldn't just call you a dumbass because you should know this, and therefore you must be the most uneducated person in the history of humanity. Because that's not civil.
It's a meme sub, chill out.
a) Huge groups of users well known to spread the promotion, praise and propaganda of dictatorships and other authoritarian governments, bigotry, racism and transphobia. Even when there are hard facts against them.
b) The Lemmy blocking function isn't anywhere as good as you think it is. Maybe even by design, the main admin on .ml is also the lead dev of Lemmy after all.
If you're mad at lemmy.ml users for doing those specific, detestable things, why not make make the meme to be about lemmy.ml users doing those specific, detestable things instead of any lemmy.ml user making any comment?
I actually didn't make this meme, I cross posted it from someone else on [email protected]
It's not like it's a minority of users on .ml doing it that the admins/mods just haven't brought the ban hammer down on. The admins are part of the problem along with mods cultivate the toxic tankie culture that gets shit on. It's the non-tankie .ml users who are in the minority, they should have chosen a better crowd to hang with.
yeah uh, that's the joke. That's the obviously implication of the joke here.
That's like saying that "all murderers are bad" and then me going "well hey don't you think is a little bit broad of a generalization? And unfair to people who were unfairly charged, or perhaps in inconvenient but justified circumstances?"
You could make the meme say "lemmy.ml tankies running free posting tankie bullshit" but that doesn't roll as well as "lemmy.ml doing tankie things because lemmy.ml seems to have no problem with tankies existing"
It did neither of those things though, so that's irrelevant. It just says it's a comment.
Can you point me to any member of these "huge groups of well known users" spreading bigotry, racism, and transphobia?
First rule of using Lemmy: If someone claims something happened on the fediverse without providing a link, they’re lying.
"Well known" is so patronizing. It's like OP is saying "yeah, everyone knows about this, what are you, some kind of loser?". Another one of those phrases that immediately discredits whatever allegation is to follow.
Pretty based take... coming from a lemmy.world user. /$
worth .003$ vs a hexbear user
Like comparing the Ruble to the North Korean Won LMAO
Pffft North Korea ain't Won shit! (Sorry I see a pun I make a pun.)
This is even less than a Schrutebuck.
oh I'd rather have a schrutebuck 100%
As a resident of a politically indifferent instance that is on good terms with everyone, I can say one thing:
Fuck absolutely everyone who turns Lemmy into yet another Internet battlefield.
Leave .ml alone. Leave Hexbear alone. Even yes - leave Lemmygrad alone. People there will not change their opinion when facing hatred, and newbies coming there doesn't change the big picture, as Lemmy is federated and they can figure stuff out for themselves.
Trying to silence entire instances, especially the biggest ones, is absolutely not a welcoming picture to whoever's coming here, and being cut out and filtered for happening to choose the "wrong" instance is the worst possible greeting.
I am .NL not .ML please don't hate on me dyslexic lemmys
Edit: thank you for real responses, got so used to be people getting pissed for no reason on social media that I was genuinely surprised to check Lemmy and see a bunch of genuine answers with no butthurt to be seen
The admins and mods cultivate a community of genocide denial and authoritarian apologism, which many users on the instance then buy into.
Instance blocking only blocks communities, not users, who still show up whenever there's a Chinese genocide to deny or a Russian atrocity to "WHATABOUT", or a non-Western aligned dictator to "BOTHSIDES".
My current favorite is Taliban-simping.
When I accidentally blocked an instance, any comment from a user on that instance would be replaced by a message like "you have blocked this instance and so will not see this comment." I don't know if that's a feature of my client, Connect, or of lemmy itself.
Should be your client.
Damn I’m jealous of your client! That’s a new feature to me!
Enjoy! At least if you're on Android. I don't know if an iOS version exists.
You are forgetting the strong hatred for France.
The ml in lemmy ml means marxism-leninism, it's maintained by the lemmy devs so it has lots of "normal" users too. Some people associate lemmy.ml with "tankie" viewpoints.
Lemmy devs are tankies, especially the main maintainer
At least they’re more level headed than Nutomic is.
Nutonic is literally a transphobe who is on record as saying that trans rights are western degeneracy
I wonder what Blahaj thinks of him
Hexbear isn't fond of Nutomic either.
I wouldn't have a problem with if it wasn't for the mods
It means Mali and was chosen because it was cheap/free
You're both right!
It is Mali's domain, and Marxist-Leninists choose that domain to work out of because of the initialism.
Kinda like why BIOT's domain is so popular with the tech folks.
And Tuvalu's domain is popular with streaming sites
Um nah, there are a LOT of cheap ass TLDs, hell even .com TLDs are only $10-20 a YEAR
It might not actually mean marxism-leninism (then again, who the hell knows, we have .zip TLDs now ffs), but it sure does to the .ml admins
Back 3y ago the users claimed it did mean marxist-leninist (or rather if we must be pedantic, that the TLD does mean Mali but they chose it because it meant marxist-leninist to them.) They stopped around the time of the exodus (read: they put on a mask to trap unsuspecting redditors) and they've ramped back up since everyone defederated hex and grad (my guess, those users created .ml alts specifically to proselytize to the unwilling like Evangelical roaches once their supply to feed their victim complex dried up.)
History for posterity's sake.
The ml stands for Mali, which is the country the instance domain is registered to. The Marxist-Leninist connection is a happy coincidence for them.
I choose not to block the instance because there is a very small group on there that have non-political discussions that I enjoy, same with hexbear.
I also don't like creating an echo chamber where all I hear is what I want to hear. Hearing from the other side, as disgusting as their viewpoints can be, at least let's me know how they think.
I don't agree with their tankie views, but it does force me to see other views. However I usually just eyeroll and move on.
If I see racism or hate though that's an immediate block.
Agreed, if it's targeted like that, you get a block.
I like this view, because I have zero idea what I just walked in on. This account is just 16 days old and I'm just here to chat non-politics and doomscroll. And by 16 days old I mean like 4 because their acceptance email got sent to spam and I didn't notice it until then.
Tbh, I had no idea there were even factions or drama among the instances.
You should make an account on another instance, if you don't like the heavy hand of defederation of .world, lemmy.sdf.org is a good one and sh.itjust.works is another
There's also this community if you want to see for yourself the kind of behavior the admins and mods of .ml support, encourage and even participate in ![email protected]
Honestly, that's what I'm currently doing. I've always chuckled at the cleverness of the name sh.itjust.works. I started on .world, but I forgot to migrate my 2fa because I switched from Google Authenticator to an open source one on a new phone and didn't take my lemmy token for some damn reason.
I'm only switching because I'm a neutral entity online when it comes to politics and identity. I use the internet to escape that, not dive into it. I don't mind seeing it, I just move along and let people be people. I'd rather not be potentially tied to an image or faction by association; its nothing against .ml or anything.
Lemmy.ml admins will delete anything that doesn't support China or Russia, and they'll also delete anything that speaks positively of Western countries or concepts. Then they'll purge the logs so that there's no evidence that they're censoring basically everything.
I started on .ml, and left after a couple months when I realized I was the only person on the instance who wasn't a tanky fully committed to arguing with every post I see. They seem to have toned down a bit after getting defederated a couple times, but there are a lot of extremists on that instance, and they're very loud. I felt like I was in a Chinese political re-education camp half the time.
Kremlin propaganda isn't the other side
Yet propaganda is what has the US where we are today. If you understand the propaganda, you can help push back.
Yes, like pushing back against lemmy.ml
Extending an invitation to peruse ![email protected] for some context of mod behavior
The mods of that community are communists. They seem to mod in good faith but keep that in mind.
Maybe not, but when the admins and mods are part of the problem, it becomes pervasive.
In my experience it is pretty much the entire instance. All the sane people moved to other places.
Yeah, Hexbear is the worst. I would say exploding heads, but they're gone now.
Their mods behave like Russian commissars. Their users go along with it.
In my experience, the mods on lemmy.ml are particularly biased. Like it's okay to joke about American school shootings but not about abortions biased. But after a while I just stopped posting there. (I barely post to lemmy at all now, but that's another story.)
I'm pretty sure making jokes about shootings is worse that jokes about abortions.
Honestly they are both inappropriate
Reasonable people can disagree about the rules, the point is the mods are inconsistent.
(But seriously, do you really want to say one is worse than the other?)
fedia.io doesn't support blocking, unfortunately 😭
Lemmy has a very different community than Reddit - here, people are often outright kind.
In part that's a large reason for the beef with Lemmy.ml, e.g. recently a mod there removed comments for a user over a misunderstanding in a game, and in the process said that they (the MOD!) wanted to shoot them (the OP), doubling down and even tripping down to say "I hope you die soon". (Described in more detail here.)
It is ironic that one of the very first Lemmy instances, and also being the one whose admins are also the developers of the Lemmy sourcecode, is so much less like the rest of the people on Lemmy, and more like Reddit. But it is what it is.
Lemmy.ml is admin'd and moderated mostly by Marxists, and the liberal side of Lemmy is hostile to that. That's the principle contradiction, everything else stems from that core issue.
Your comment has been removed for including carnist hate words. We don’t use words that glorify murder like the “b” word.
Huh
They're making a shitty "HAHA VEGANS DUMB" joke like it's 2010.
Nah, one of my kids are vegetarian and I cook to support them. I have no issues with vegans. I see how it came across that way though.
I suspect you must have missed the .ml vegan community drama a couple months ago. Take every bad stereotype about vegans and ramp it to 11. Everything was in bad faith. It bled into a couple different communities.
Ah makes sense, gotta put the /s when making references like that
That would have been better in hindsight.
Ohhhhh I actually did miss that completely, my bad.
Tbf, guess what the comms I got banned from are, and guess why? Vegan subs, "carnist propaganda."
I'm just saying, don't make a post bemoaning "why do people hate vegans" and then ban the guy saying "because they often behave like evangelical christians." I got kicked out of church for much the same reason, ironically.
Ah yeah. Good old fashioned social media toxicity.
Mixed with some old good internal left fighting.
The taste of success. Surely.
I'm talking to people on Lemmy.ml who say things like "Reality has a well known Russian propaganda bias", "Russia was right to invade Ukraine, it needs to be denazified", "Uighur genocide is made up", etc, etc etc, I wouldn't call that "internal left fighting"
Doesn't mean all .ml users are like that.
What happens here is an attack on a wide group based on a very arbitrary characteristic.
It's not that we're judging all .ml users. It's just that any .ml user can be a potential tankie who will defend Putin to his grave, like the admins and mods.
This is reflected in the content on the instance, and what sort of things you're allowed to post there. Which does influence people using said instance, even if very slightly, and unnoticeably.
I don't actually agree with the meme, but the humour stems from the fact that it could be true insofar that it's pretty often that you'll find shameless tankies wanting to suck Putler off and destroy "western imperialists".
So I do take comments at their own value, no matter the instance you're from. But lemmy.ml is almost as shit as lemmygrad.ml
It's not arbitrary, it's a picked identity which shares some common features.
In which things is someone allowed to think differently from the US Democratic party before they are expelled from the left?
And fuck Putin, btw. But there are people with widely diverse points of view on an incredibly amount of matters, that can have common grounds on many other issues. And, at least for me, they'll need to try harder that just being putin's useful idiots to be expelled from my definition of what the "left" is.
Especially on a matter as complex as Ukraine war. That I gladly support arming and helping Ukraine, and my country will keep arming and helping Ukraine when USA steps back once Trump sits in the office. But I still understand that is a complex issue and that different points of view are expected. I have mine, which is support for Ukraine. Others may support Russia on this. But as long as we both agree on other issues I won't deny that. If they support end of capitalism, workers rights, LGBT rights or gender equality we would have common ground on those topics.
Russia invaded Ukraine. That's a war of aggression. Russia is wrong in this. Don't pretend like it's a "complex issue" and "we need to listen to both sides".
No, we don't. Russia is the aggressor, they're in the wrong, they need to fuck off from Ukraine and Putin be held responsible in a court of international law. There's no ifs ands or buts about it.
"We could have common ground..."
Yeah I don't need to have any common ground with people who actively lie, spread disinformation, undermine legitimate information, deny international crimes, deny genocides, spread values of authoritarian nations.
I don't even identify with any left-right division but I'm definitely not what you'd call an "enlightened centrist", because that's a garbage position for garbage people who are afraid of any sort of confrontation.
About a bit less than a hundred years ago there were discussion like "we need to appease this Hitler fellow, seems awfully mad" "maybe if we don't protest over him taking the Sudetenland, he'll calm down?"
Would you be intellectually arguing the merits of Hitler's invasion of Sudetenland as "a complex issue, you have to consider both sides"?
No. Fuck that. Take a stance.
I have a stance. I did say I support Ukraine. Same I say I'm clearly leftist.
But you don't need to stop being able to think just because you support a side. You can support a side and still understand the complexity of the issue, and that you are supporting the lesser evil.
I still support Ukraine on this. Mostly because Russia initiated hostilities, and because I think the European Union is a better place to live than Russia. We protect people's rights better. But it's a complex issue because there are people in some Ukrainian regions that does not want to be Ukrainian anymore, and that does not want to be forced to move away from Russian influence. And this is clearly a proxy war between two empires.
I have my stance, but I'm not blinded by it.
I don't need to think "all opinions are equal" to be "able to think". I don't need to accept Russians saying they've done nothing wrong and to "consider it from their point of view." Russia broke international law.
It's not a complex issue.
Oh yeah the old "no there's definitely people who actually want to be Russians in the parts of Ukraine Russia invaded illegally so they should probably maybe be able to keep those illegally invaded areas." No. Is there documentation of, say, Ukrainian people voting in Russian elections? That might imply they consider themselves Russians, right? Yes, there is documentation of that.
Occupied Ukraine encouraged to vote in Russian election by armed men
Stop being an apologist to Russia.
Do you understand that by calling me Russian apologists, when I've said several times that I support Ukraine, is just making my point?
You see enemies even in your allies.
If we are naming moustached men I remember some paranoid mustache men that also thought everyone was his enemy. How did that feel? Ah?
Last paragraph is just a joke, I don't actually think you are a stalinist just because you are so radical in your views, but you get me.
You can say you support Ukraine, and still be apologist for Russia. Those aren't mutually exclusive.
"You are so radical in your views."
You're literally an apologist for Russian authoritarianism. You're spreading the propaganda that occupied Ukrainians actually want to be Russians. That is bullshit that Russia has been spreading for years. It's not controversial either. You just keep yourself ignorant, and probably didn't even click on the link I pasted, and definitely didn't read it. And you have the nerve to talk to me about the "ability to think"?
Here's more.
Ukraine war: Russia claims win in occupied Ukraine 'sham' referendums
Like you can't... or won't call bullshit on things like ^ that?
You supposedly being "for Ukraine" doesn't really matter when you're touting Russian propaganda, consciously or not.
I don't care about all the politics and shit regarding instances, i just want to use lemmy :(
woah.
woah?
It's short for "woke tuah [girl]"
yeah I was echoing the meme. silly joke
You are on the wrong instance for that
I like how this comment would work regardless of the instance they're on
Facts
They're on the normal regular instance. Political content is mostly propagated through lemmy.world anyway.
Almost entirely .world starting shit and then complaining when they hear something back.
If you block .world you literally lose 90% of politics and political news from the feeds.
Even though I came from reddit, I approach comments on their own merits and I don't downvote just for disagreeing with someone.
We are not the same.
i joined .ml as it was the first instance i come across when trying lemmy out. Iv heard the admins are tankies but to be honest i dont actually know what a tankie is. i just use lemmy to look at memes and follow foss communities. i try to block all political stuff as i want to enjoy my exprience and stay ignorant to the politics here.
That's a bit harsh if you ask me. Back in 2021 there wasn't many Lemmy servers for register.
You can scroll through my 1.400 comments and don't find a tankie-like comment.
Btw. Lemmy.ml is the dev server, every new update and feature starts here.
My thoughts exactly for getting banned for making a simple joke.
https://lemmy.world/post/22703541
I used to have a Lemmy account many years ago. I may of thought Lemmy was making fun of communism at the time and I made a meme that got me banned.
A few years later here I am.
Why tho? I'm having trouble figuring out the differences in instances
The lemmy.ml instance is known to have admins, mods and users that spread the promotion, praise and propaganda of dictatorships and other authoritarian governments, bigotry, racism and transphobia. Even when there are hard facts against them.
You get banned for stating things like "Russia invaded Ukraine"
When I first got lemmy, I think I signed up to .ml but after a while I couldn't log in so I made a .world acc
Ooh hard facts? I love hard facts! Which hard facts are you talking about?
How about China is, in fact, a dictatorship for starters. The Communist in "Chinese Communist Party" is just there for show.
China is a capitalistic country with a state guidance in their industrial policy and a dictator in the helm.
They don't really even have anything in regards to a national health care.
That could be true. But I wonder, in general, what is the process for determining whether a country is a dictatorship or not, from the outside? China claims to be a democracy and holds elections, like just about every other country under the sun. Of course, not every country with elections is actually a democracy, but if we're talking "hard facts" I think we need to be able to point to specific, objective things.
Isn't the Chinese Communist Party the single largest self-identifying communist party in the world? Shouldn't that factor in, like, at least a little bit into our standards for what defines a communist party? Regardless, this is kind of just your subjective opinion, isn't it? Again, what specific, objective standards are you looking at to distinguish between "real" communism and "fake" communism?
Username checks out
Allowing a fascist to become dictator of the USA will get millions more people genocided than voting for a liberal.
Telling the truth about a liberal, when that truth contains a call to action not to vote against fascism, will get millions more people genocided than shutting up about a liberal.
That's quite a claim. If the US is set to genocide millions of people, then as people at risk of being victims of that, surely we should be treating the US government as the primary threat to our safety, correct?
https://lemmy.world/post/22703541
Lemmy.ml is admin'd and moderated by mostly Marxists. That's the principle reason, everything else stems from hostility towards Marxism and Marxists.
love me a classic .ml worthless posting, it's my favorite.
hmm, I wonder why .ml dislikes .world so much. It couldn't possibly have to do with us shitting on them so much.
As a user of neither, I've only been banned from one of them for making fun of government leaders
Don't leave us hanging why did .world ban you?!
i'm blanket banned from .ml presumably over genocide debate, and i've been clocked on my instance a few times as well.
Though only for a week each time, so that's interesting.
hmm, I wonder why many other instances dislikes .ml so much. It couldn't possibly have to do with them praising and spreading the propaganda of authoritarian governments so much.
It's because they can't delete posts on .world
I was on ml and it was pretty chill for a non-tankie. Until a mod powertripped and ban me for insulting an homophobe. Some people like me join the instance without knowing of all this tankie thing. IMO, hexbear is far more toxic.
For the record, I joined lemmy.ml back in 2021 when it was the most popular instance. I had no idea about their issues, and have since created an alt account on lemm.ee.
why not leave?
Sunk cost fallacy.
I've already made so many posts and comments here, if I were to switch to a different instance, I'd have to start all over.
So? There's not much value in past comments/posts is there? Like, how often do you look back on those?
Yeah, not much value in your past comments/posts.
i did
You should turn this account into an archive.
Nyet comrade. Is liberal American racism of Russia phobia to criticize purge of Ukraine Nazi from motherland.
man this is such runglish holy shit
Instance Filters! Couple of clicks and it's like they never existed.
Honestly, that's just sticking your head in the sand. Newcomers aren't going to have those filters. Their Tankie BS should be called out every time.
If only that were true! That does help a bit, but it acts only as a community mute rather than more like an instance defederation or a user block would. You'll see ML users brigading posts and random users with the most off the wall takes imaginable - I think bc they get used to the style of moderation inside their echo chamber and so have difficulties leaving it behind. Tbf after the USA elections a lot of that seems to have died down.
Tbf, there are people on ML who I've enjoyed conversing with, so it's not all one way as the meme seems to convey. However, it is quite a noticeable pattern where 9 times out of 10 the comments that are the most batshit insane that I've ever seen (and don't come from hexbear.net or lemmygrad.ml) are from a user on lemmy.ml. Make of that what you will - I used to argue strongly against that, but the weight of continued observation has caused me to switch sides on that argument.
I see where you're coming from. If they're not defederated and those posts are going to pop up anyway, then I can control it I see those posts or not. In my experience (same as yours), the vast majority of ml posts aren't worth reading anyways so why not filter them out?
Yeah it's not nothing that you can filter the posts from those communities, but it sure would be nice if you could filter the users as well. Which I can do on PieFed, and the Sync and Connect apps (but not the base web UI or apps like Voyager) allow true instance blocking for Lemmy, or Lemmy.cafe, quokk.au, and dubvee.org have all defederated from lemmy.ml (along with hexbear.net and lemmygrad.ml).
Even better could be to keep the users but put a label warning that the instance is known for being a bit troll-y 🧌 and crazy - and surely if they wanted they could put labels onto our accounts in return like "warning this user is from the West so is deluded by all the capitalist pig nonsense 🐖 🐷💩🐽, remember that they don't know the True ML communiist thoughts that only us true believers do".
And even then I wonder how many of those people actually trolling from ML are simply hexbear alts - several have outright admitted that, citing how their ML account predated their HB one, yet acknowledging all the same the choice to use the ML one after the HB one was defederated with, to continue the same activities that they did before that, translation: no means yes to them. Either way the admins allow it and so really who cares so long as their freedom to speak does not forcibly overwrite my willingness to not have to listen.
whats wrong with lemmy.ml? i tried bunch of different instances last month, and fedaration works best on this one, when i use other instances i cant even see the posts on some small communities i follow
Oh no
Lol, 2meirl4meirl
Reposting my comment from the last .world feud post
Couldn't care less about lemmy.world. This post has the same energy as people in comment sections publicly announcing they are blocking someone.
Do what you want. No one cares.
You obviously care lmao
Funny enough, that's the message of the original scene too. "I don't think about you at all" is a blatant lie, lmao.
Mostly of being constantly bombarded with .ml harassment instead of useful, funny, or interesting content.
If it's an hour that ends in o'clock, there's someone on .world screaming about the dang leftists ruining the website.
Tankies
FIFY
The only leftists I will recognize are liberals
You and your fellow tankies are "authoritarian leftists" and are JUST as bad as the right wing
So yea, leftists are ruining the site, the tankie authoritarian leftists
*Eglin
And this is a reference to?
Most addicted city (over 100k visits total) Eglin Air Force Base, when I see someone going out of their way to be a cop about communists on the Internet it just makes me think you must get paid to be one IRL and just can't shut it off.
... do you really think that the US Air Force is worried about communists on the internet? lmao
I guess it wouldn't be tankieism without a good persecution fetish, lol. Just like the fundies.
Ah, yea no. I have no problems with the idea of communism and like socialism.
However, the "communism" you and your fellow tankies love to spread, is authoritarianism/dictatorship with a communism mask like the CCP or Russia. Along with racism, bigotry and transphobia sprinkled in.
Bold words, but I run into way more bigotry and racism while/after posting on .world vs posting in .ml spaces.
Nutomic is a shithead for failing to address his transphobia, if he ever posts in /c/transgender I'll ban him myself.
Russia is not pretending to be communist, wtf are you on? do you mean USSR? if anything I've run into way more cutting critiques of existing/historical socialist states among actual communists in these spaces as opposed to carnival barkers with a tenuous grasp on history.
The racism allegations also kind of sound like projection in this context considering on of the main controversies I've seen about bans here are for banning people being weirdly racist and choosing to die on the hill of depicting the president of China as a yellow cartoon animal.
i wonder what does my username says
Pov your 0002 and not 0001 : (
I love these posts because they let me find out which .world users desperately need to be added to my block list.
Lol, ig "egocentric" should be part of the official tankie toolkit, and yes you were tagged a tankie a long time ago.
These posts aren't for you, they're for swaying sane .ml users to leave, showing the true colors of .ml to newbies as quickly as possible and to hopefully encourage non-.ml users to avoid posting and commenting on .ml communities
Assuming this to be a working strategy (and not a way of swaying new users out of Lemmy in general), what's the endgame? If everyone you deem "sane" leaves the place, it will just be even worse, a concentrated "tankie" circlejerk, visible to plenty of newbies. Then what?
It's already a tankie circle jerk over there, you can't concentrate what's already concentrated.
Visible yes, but its a LOT easier to say "Oh yea that's the tankie instance, they're small so just block it and move on" rather than
"Oh yea that's the tankie instance, but they're also one of the biggest instances, so if you block them you'll be cutting off a decent chunk of non-tankie content"
So many stories of "I signed up on .ml because it was one of the biggest, then I realized it was full of Tankies and signed up elsewhere" and if there's stories of that, there's probably many more where the person just left and never came back because what they saw was a place was full of toxic tankies
For me posts like this just make me embarrassed to be on Lemmy in general. It's like making a post about how you get upset when you get an email from a Gmail account.
And look at the responses you get for pointing out that everyone else is acting immature in here too. Yeah Lemmy is an embarrassment.
Yeah. Lemmy was a good idea but I don't think it's user base will ever be good enough to make this a pleasant place for good communities to thrive. And it's not because of tankies or liberals, it's because of assholes.
Replace Lemmy with the Internet.
👋 Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
What have I done to you that makes you want me to leave?
You made a comment that you're ashamed of the platform. If that's the case, I encourage you to seek out one more suitable.
No I said this post made me embarrassed to be here. The instance fighting is one of the worst aspects of this site.
Okay, if you feel embarrassed do something about it. No one's going to stop arguing just because you feel embarrassed. Furthermore, the reason people are bashing people on ml is because their collective behavior has been atrocious. Here's some things you could try:
Edit: ah, look at that, the Russians woke up and the downvotes are pouring in.
anything you say officer 🫡
Its insane how much shit .ml and .world users fling at eachother. Ml is filled with smug historical revisionist authoritarians and Russia bootlicking other empire supporting "anti-imperalists", meanwhile .world is filled with genocide apologizing western imperialists and neoliberal bootlickers for the capitalist class. Genuenly im not sure which is worse but they're both obnoxious and unbearable, imperialism is imperialism regardless of the empire.
The ML mod in a game community telling a user that they wanted to shoot them, then doubled down on that, then tripled down still further with "I hope you die soon" points to systemic issues (such issues are widespread and well-known, as well as the entire-instance perma-bans routinely dished out by the admins themselves; you can directly read the mods own words for this particular event here).
LW mods have some issues as well, but e.g. recently the one responsible for this latest string of short 24-hr bans has already apologized within hours of the occurrence, in another comment citing a potential misunderstanding of the extent to which she was asked by admins to have done so and acknowledging her own biases that lead to that (event).
They are nowhere close to being the same. Definitely in degree at least if not entirely in kind.
Didn't a .world mod literally defend the genocide in Palestine?
No idea, but even if so, a single mod (?) vs. an entire instance admin team are again nowhere near the same, for people who care about more than just that one singular issue.
Moreover, and again even if so, a nuanced take on a supremely complicated issue would again be nowhere close to a DIRECT statement about wanting to be the one who ACTUALLY kills the person ("I want to shoot you because..."), ending with "I hope you die soon", seems again to be nowhere close to the same degree.
People are people and nobody's perfect, but this kinda of both-sides-ism does not sit well with me. That's not how we fix things irl, by being hasty with diagnoses and then going off half-cocked without a proper understanding of what needs to be done in order to achieve the desired end goal.
Then again, neither of us have much skin in this game, both being on different instances so looking in at that fight from the outside:-). Except it's easy to just instance block Lemmy.World communities and never have to interact with those admins or mods anymore, while it is extraordinarily difficult to defederate from the non-admin, non-mod regular users of ML spewing toxicity into communities located not on their home instance. That irks me, bc I wish for my consent to have mattered, but it takes enormous efforts to constantly block the trolls one by one.
From what ive heard its several .world admins, yeah obviously telling a person to die sucks but imo it seems worse to say an entire people deserves to die. Also I didnt say "both sides" I explained why both sides suck for unique reasons.
I guess I was reacting to "Genuenly im not sure which is worse", but yeah you explained why. ML has both admins (+mods) and also users spewing toxicity while for Lemmy.World it's mostly just admins (+mods) that people complain about, but not the users, beyond what might be expected from any large instance filled to the brim with Reddit refugees.:-)
But anyway it's good to join communities and especially to post to those outside of Lemmy.World for other reasons as well, chiefly that it's not taking full advantage of the concept of federation if everything is all concentrated onto just one instance.
And all of this drama is a perfect example as to why that matters: people wouldn't care so much what one mod did (I am not even subscribed to that community in the first place, in fact I blocked it long ago) or one set of admins if similar communities were distributed elsewhere all around the Fediverse. Federation is supposed to bring freedom, but that comes only if we decide to make use of it.
Perfectly balanced, as all things should be.
I am leaving the up votes and down votes along. We need to be perfectly even
So true bestie
never speak
Tankie Toxicity should be called out regardless of background or age. In fact, a teenager should be exposed to the true authoritarianism roots more so so there's a chance they don't become permanently part of the tankie cult
Looool xDDD
This "instance tribalism" is beneath me. You can't ignore this comment, it will live rent free in your head.
Is this a joke?
What is the real joke is categorizing people by which Lemmy instance they sign up to, and justifying it with a weak truism that "people self select for communities". I believe it is utterly stupid, and t can also be motivated. In Lemmy.ml I have met some of the brighter minds of our generation.
I don't categorize people from any other instance, but .ml is on a whole other level spreading their toxicity. It's like a tankie factory.
In all good faith, I am an anarchist who found ml randomly from some Privacy/Open Source searches. I signed up because I thought it was cool to be admitted in the flagship instance and I liked the anti-bigotry guidelines. Then I found out about all the drama, and I have zero fucks to give about inter-instance beefs. ML let's me be, and I had no serious issues so far, I mostly like the crowd there, coming from Reddit even more so.
Wait, what are your personal opinions of Putin?
This is moronic, and I shouldn't validate it with an answer. There are tons of trans users in ml and I hardly think any of them holds any favourable views on him.
It's okay to criticize him over here. You don't need to be afraid.
Here's the thing though, you'll be unable to convince us that .ml aren't stupid shitheads because we're here too, we see them too, we talk to them too and share in the experience just like you do, some (like me) going on 3y+ now. You can't fool us because we experience it firsthand, you can only succeed in convincing us that you don't see the problem because you're one of "the problem."
I always aspired to be a problem. But see you have no justification for this statement. You are just lumping together everyone who shares a lemmy.ml address without an iota of data other than your personal impressions. This is just plain lamentable.
Having said that, I hold extreme views right enough, since I don't think there is such a thing as a middle ground to fascism. Do you see my 100% no-pasaran as a problem? And if yes, how low are you willing to stoop before setting your priorities right?
To borrow a quote from Kolank in this very thread:
.ml is that T-shirt. I hope you get the help you need.
That's because you stoop too low.
Every comment on the internet is worthless including this
⬆️ This comment is worthless ⬆️
That's what I said, but thanks for reminding it to me
Same
I wonder why Lemmy is losing active users 🤔
Instant judging based on first impression.
I can't tell you how many conversations start with:
"LET ME GUESS..."
That and the constant holier-than-thou one-upping(which has admittedly gotten a teensy bit better, but only a little).
At this point Lemmy instances is just astrology for Linux users
You aren't that wrong honestly
Well, if literally everyone I've tried to get to sign up but it didn't take are to be believed, it's the tankies. I try to explain they can use keywords to at least limit it but by then they're mad about me "hanging out at a nazi bar" and explaining "no they're really more Nazbols" somehow just isn't helping my case. Even when they give it a second shot (rare) they quit when they figure out "rule 2 be nice" means "you can't say anything we don't like even if you're nice and we're going to be insufferable cunts with impunity because our admins are hypocrites that back us."
Go back to reddit.
Bite my shiny metal ass