You're a Scorpio? No wonder I couldn't trust you. Sagittariuses and Scorpios are natural enemies. Like Sagittariuses and Cancers. Or Sagittariuses and other Sagittariuses. Dammit Sagittarius! You ruined astrology!!
A woman predicted the exact date Biden would step down a few weeks before it happened. She claims to be a world class astrologist. People sort of viewed this as a wow moment. Completely ignoring the fact that it's been talked about that he might not re run if he won in 2020 (which I think was actually a misquote, but ultimately irrelevant for this discussion). There had been a lot of talk and push for him to step down, especially in the month or so prior to it happening. That someone sort of recognized all this but claimed the stars gave them the exact date is such an obvious Occam's razor moment lol but people really did believe she was a master level astrologer.
Gotcha. Is it a new usage? I wouldn't say my british slang stays super up to date necessarily... maybe I forgot this one, but I don't remember seeing/hearing it in the past.
Australian here, heard it all my life. Also, in our dialect you can use fuck to mean pretty much anything, as long as it's clear from context what sentiment you're going for
In America, "piss off" can mean "leave", but "pissed off" means angry (usually, depending on context it can also mean left). "fuck off" means "leave", while "fucked off" either means "left" or "screwed around". It's complicated haha. In this post, I guess "fucked off" could've meant "left" too, but that reads very awkwardly to me so I decided against that theory. Then others are telling me it can mean angry, or least I'm taking their responses to mean that, so I'm thinking OOP meant that here. But maybe I'm still confused! /shrug
I wonder if there is some benefit from the clients interpretation of the reading, even though the reading itself is nonsense. In the same way someone can flip a coin to help you make a decision, and you realise from your gut reaction what you actually wanted to do all along, but weren't consciously aware of
I used to work in a shop that could easily be described as "New Age" and it has a tarot reader there. Having looked at the history of tarot but being a complete sceptic, I asked for a reading one time to see for myself how they go.
Afterwards I asked her "it's a light therapy session, isn't it?" She responded "mostly."
That's pretty much what it is, cheap, basic therapy to help you sort through your thoughts, and shares some similarities with CBT. I'd still recommend therapy if you need it, but I don't mind people going to a tarot reader if that's what helps them. But I still think the mysticism side of it can be a problem for a variety of reasons.
One of my wife's former coworkers said she needed to stop looking into astrology, so I think some people definitely can get into it too much and worry too much about predictions, but on the whole I don't think astrology (specifically) is problematic as a whole.
But it is interesting that it does cause some people to discriminate against others based on their birthdays lol.
Even at its most harmless, astrology normalizes magical thinking and leaves the door open for more predatory things. Not that big a leap to alternative healing and psychics and other conmen persuading the naive away from legitimate help.
I talk to my dead dad in my dreams (nothing deep--I usually say "hey, aren't you dead?" And he says "yep!" And then we discuss board games or dogs) and while it's comforting for me to maintain that connection to my memory of him, I'd be so absolutely pissed if some stranger tried to horn in on and pollute my memory of my dad.
Tarot is also a great way of reflection and introspection by giving external prompts which allow a jumping off point for story creation and reframing. Lot of creative processes recommend this external semi-random prompt because it changes you from your normal thoughts. This allows you to think about what happened or what you want to happen and gives a story and a new perspective. Humans are naturally story tellers and pattern seekers and this taps into that. This reframing is a evidence based therapeutic technique that works.
Also if it makes you feel better in your own head that means it works. Everything is based on our mental state so what is difference
That's why I have a pair of oracledecks. I flip a few cards and listen to my gut to interpret it. Sometimes my brain is indecisive and needs the illusion of an external decision.
this is definitely the answer, and i don't get why people are so aggressive about shitting on people who just want a bit of fake mysticism in their lives. literally not hurting anyone to look at the stars and feel stuff
Until they charge $300 for a three hour reading, without disclosing the price or the time beforehand. And refer to all women as "goddesses". And ask for tastes of four different types of wine before getting the same thing they always get.
So, yes, some people go too far into astrology and some people are actual grifters, but a lot of times, I think most of the time, people are just looking for a little fun. Yes, I know a tarot reading is bullshit, but it can be fun to do and it can be enlightening to see how I think it should be interpreted. Sort of like the idea of ink blotch tests, but that's not a great comparison.
I really hope this is true because I have met soooo many people in my personal life who seriously believe the position of the stars affects every little facet of your life.
I’ve done tarot and it’s good for helping analyze possibilities. A draw when you’re worried about something can give you a vague situation and it’s often easy to imagine exactly what that is. The caveat is it’s not more likely to happen just because cartomancey says so
Sounds a bit like making a decision by flipping a coin. Whatever you're hoping for when it's in the air is the right answer, regardless of what the outcome is.
Exactly, but more open ended. Let’s say you draw the 6 of swords, 3 of coins, and the lovers. You’re worried about your job. The 6 of swords means moving on, 3 of coins means teamwork and collaboration, and the lovers means Union and partnership. Now what does that mean for you? Any number of things, it might be the kick in the ass to call that old friend and start a business together. It may mean you need to move forward and try to unionize your workplace because your job is already at risk. It could present a lot of different possibilities and so long as you understand that those possibilities come from you and not fate and they aren’t necessarily a good idea, but a starting point or a place to reflect. It can be throwing a life preserver to a mind thrashing in the waters of uncertainty, you’re still in the water, but you’re ready to start swimming now.
The original comment was "you can't reason someone out of a belief they weren't reasoned into" and I was just playing on that by trying to reason them out of the belief that you can't reason someone out of a belief............
Or at least suggest that you can reason someone out of a belief they weren't reasoned into. Because it seems within reason that you can reason someone out of a belief they weren't reasoned into and the reason I suggest that is it seems perfectly reasonable.
(Yeah -- sometimes I just get bored and want to see how long I can keep a sentence going and use the same word in it before it breaks down into total chaos).
Obviously biased. Every astrologer is a world leading expert. That's just a true and correct fact. Where are the error bars? Why not use violin plots? Correct science is what will prove astrology correct. I know that because I'm a Leo. Seriously, astrology is important for weeding out tinder profiles.
Astrology can't define a person, but maybe astronomy can. Astronomers study space objects way more than astrologists. I bet they actually know how those objects affect our moods and shit.
Wait, they all did 5 out of 12? That means you can make statistical predictions with astrology by selecting the opposite of what the astrologer predicts!
I think they just left off the subject of each phrase; 0 out of 152 astrologists did better than 5 out of 12 questions. Though it is phrased weirdly either way.
Well I suppose what they're saying is no response had a success rate equal to or greater than fifty percent, but yeah it's not exactly reported academically.
Astrology I think works better when they focus less on predicting people's characteristics than looking at people's patterns in their life. If Saturn is returning to your "insert astrology term here" that means 29 years have happened which means great changes which is pretty typical for humans. People go through big changes at their late 20s and late 50s / early 60s. Since the stars goes through regular patterns and using this a time based guide a lot can be understood about human nature. This is a lot of astrology but the patterns at birth is more popular or at least the most commonly understood portion of it.
Wait… they gave all the participants the same reading? So all of their conclusions are based on the reading of a single person, which may or may not be accurately represented?
I’m not one for astrology, but this seems like r/atheism level science glazing for a fairly unscientific analysis.
I've never believed in astrology, but we Scorpios are naturally skeptical.
You're a Scorpio? No wonder I couldn't trust you. Sagittariuses and Scorpios are natural enemies. Like Sagittariuses and Cancers. Or Sagittariuses and other Sagittariuses. Dammit Sagittarius! You ruined astrology!!
You Sagittariuses sure are a contentious people!
You just made an enemy for life!
https://youtu.be/9ATtC0zEgjM?si=NswAetIcNfZIijUn&t=36
I should go play some civ again
I'm not sure I believe that.
Astrology is so stupid! That's why I only practice geomancy, the true divination art.
Geomancy is just applied numerology.
And physics is just applied maths. I feel like the number lobby is trying to sell us more numbers.
That's how we'll eventually run out of numbers. And then what? Sell some imaginary ones?
Hey kid, wanna buy a square root of minus one? It fucks you uppppp
It really does
I don't know. There's an awful lot of numbers out there.
Leaving this here XKCD.
And the extended edition:
I think that's another name for earthbending
I think it might be closer to applied Sacred Geometry.
Pffft. Molybdomancy is the one true divination form.
I've always been a fan of tyromancy.
I wonder what kind of person calls themselves a "world class expert" in astrology.
Probably exactly the kind you'd expect.
The stars of the profession?
People you shouldn't trust.
You know, I'm something of a galaxy-class expert astrologist myself.
Oh yeah? Well I'm a universe-class master astrologer, third degree.
A woman predicted the exact date Biden would step down a few weeks before it happened. She claims to be a world class astrologist. People sort of viewed this as a wow moment. Completely ignoring the fact that it's been talked about that he might not re run if he won in 2020 (which I think was actually a misquote, but ultimately irrelevant for this discussion). There had been a lot of talk and push for him to step down, especially in the month or so prior to it happening. That someone sort of recognized all this but claimed the stars gave them the exact date is such an obvious Occam's razor moment lol but people really did believe she was a master level astrologer.
Survivorship bias? Hundreds of other "astrologists" probably tried predicting it too but guessed wrong
Incredible number of expert astrologers out there
Looks like technically any of us can.
People with planet sized egos?
Doesn't those results mean that we all are world class astrologers? Just roll the dice and you're as good as the best.
An astrologist. 🤣
My sister. Last year she begged me to do my charts for the next year. Said I would be happily married and on my way to the EU in a new job.
I’m divorced and unemployed. But hey, good news is she’ll do my charts over.
For those that prefer the source instead of a screenshot: https://www.tumblr.com/wilwheaton/762475130013237248
Might be an idea to post the actual source rather than Wil Wheaton's tumblr post about it
https://www.clearerthinking.org/post/can-astrologers-use-astrological-charts-to-understand-people-s-character-and-lives-our-new-study-pu
This is hilarious. I wish they'd properly publish it in something peer-reviewed.
Astrologers don't read scientific publications. Poor quality blogs linked from Tumblr are how you get the most eyeballs
Ravens: taking notes
I was going to, but I liked the other posts that Wil Wheaton had with his reblog.
Thank you very much. This sort of thing needs to be sourced.
"B******" however is strictly forbidden.
Bananas?
Boufles
Boredom?
Bonking?
Between?
butthead >:)
Ballsack
Baccarat 🤮
And you better never call anyone a X**.
That's allowed in real live, though, isn't it?
That's exactly what I was waiting for. Typical x**.
I thought it might come under "Keep it civil" :)
Also "no unnecessary negativity"?
Astrologers fucking off would be a big enough positive to justify the profanity.
Not censoring yourself and giving a hint that you're not a bot is enough to justify profanity.
Fuck
Does "fucked off" mean "pissed off" in some vernacular? Not sure I've seen/heard that before.
Yeah Bri'ish
Gotcha. Is it a new usage? I wouldn't say my british slang stays super up to date necessarily... maybe I forgot this one, but I don't remember seeing/hearing it in the past.
Australian here, heard it all my life. Also, in our dialect you can use fuck to mean pretty much anything, as long as it's clear from context what sentiment you're going for
Haha alright. Yeah same in America, sort of. "fucked off" would always mean "left" for us though
Doesn't 'piss off' can mean 'leave' in American English too? I use them pretty much interchangeably, maybe 'fuck off' expresses a stronger intention.
In America, "piss off" can mean "leave", but "pissed off" means angry (usually, depending on context it can also mean left). "fuck off" means "leave", while "fucked off" either means "left" or "screwed around". It's complicated haha. In this post, I guess "fucked off" could've meant "left" too, but that reads very awkwardly to me so I decided against that theory. Then others are telling me it can mean angry, or least I'm taking their responses to mean that, so I'm thinking OOP meant that here. But maybe I'm still confused! /shrug
(Office Space movie)
As long as I can remember, so not a new thing
Link to the actual page
Even more interesting: take the test yourself!
I wonder if there is some benefit from the clients interpretation of the reading, even though the reading itself is nonsense. In the same way someone can flip a coin to help you make a decision, and you realise from your gut reaction what you actually wanted to do all along, but weren't consciously aware of
I used to work in a shop that could easily be described as "New Age" and it has a tarot reader there. Having looked at the history of tarot but being a complete sceptic, I asked for a reading one time to see for myself how they go.
Afterwards I asked her "it's a light therapy session, isn't it?" She responded "mostly."
That's pretty much what it is, cheap, basic therapy to help you sort through your thoughts, and shares some similarities with CBT. I'd still recommend therapy if you need it, but I don't mind people going to a tarot reader if that's what helps them. But I still think the mysticism side of it can be a problem for a variety of reasons.
Yeah, that's really all it is. It gets much more questionable and problematic when it's things like people claiming to channel dead loved ones.
Oh, 100 percent. There's much healthier ways to deal with that kind of grief.
One of my wife's former coworkers said she needed to stop looking into astrology, so I think some people definitely can get into it too much and worry too much about predictions, but on the whole I don't think astrology (specifically) is problematic as a whole.
But it is interesting that it does cause some people to discriminate against others based on their birthdays lol.
Even at its most harmless, astrology normalizes magical thinking and leaves the door open for more predatory things. Not that big a leap to alternative healing and psychics and other conmen persuading the naive away from legitimate help.
Yup that's exactly what pissed off Houdini so much that he ended his friendship with Arthur Conan Doyle.
I talk to my dead dad in my dreams (nothing deep--I usually say "hey, aren't you dead?" And he says "yep!" And then we discuss board games or dogs) and while it's comforting for me to maintain that connection to my memory of him, I'd be so absolutely pissed if some stranger tried to horn in on and pollute my memory of my dad.
Tarot is also a great way of reflection and introspection by giving external prompts which allow a jumping off point for story creation and reframing. Lot of creative processes recommend this external semi-random prompt because it changes you from your normal thoughts. This allows you to think about what happened or what you want to happen and gives a story and a new perspective. Humans are naturally story tellers and pattern seekers and this taps into that. This reframing is a evidence based therapeutic technique that works.
Also if it makes you feel better in your own head that means it works. Everything is based on our mental state so what is difference
yeah and don't forget the placebo effect
"today's gonna be a good day for you"
That's why I have a pair of oracle decks. I flip a few cards and listen to my gut to interpret it. Sometimes my brain is indecisive and needs the illusion of an external decision.
You should read The Dice Man
I'll add that to my reading list, thank you!
this is definitely the answer, and i don't get why people are so aggressive about shitting on people who just want a bit of fake mysticism in their lives. literally not hurting anyone to look at the stars and feel stuff
Until they charge $300 for a three hour reading, without disclosing the price or the time beforehand. And refer to all women as "goddesses". And ask for tastes of four different types of wine before getting the same thing they always get.
So, yes, some people go too far into astrology and some people are actual grifters, but a lot of times, I think most of the time, people are just looking for a little fun. Yes, I know a tarot reading is bullshit, but it can be fun to do and it can be enlightening to see how I think it should be interpreted. Sort of like the idea of ink blotch tests, but that's not a great comparison.
I really hope this is true because I have met soooo many people in my personal life who seriously believe the position of the stars affects every little facet of your life.
I agree with you. I think it's more about having fun and the "show" of having your fortune read. It might also help you think about stuff.
I’ve done tarot and it’s good for helping analyze possibilities. A draw when you’re worried about something can give you a vague situation and it’s often easy to imagine exactly what that is. The caveat is it’s not more likely to happen just because cartomancey says so
Sounds a bit like making a decision by flipping a coin. Whatever you're hoping for when it's in the air is the right answer, regardless of what the outcome is.
Exactly, but more open ended. Let’s say you draw the 6 of swords, 3 of coins, and the lovers. You’re worried about your job. The 6 of swords means moving on, 3 of coins means teamwork and collaboration, and the lovers means Union and partnership. Now what does that mean for you? Any number of things, it might be the kick in the ass to call that old friend and start a business together. It may mean you need to move forward and try to unionize your workplace because your job is already at risk. It could present a lot of different possibilities and so long as you understand that those possibilities come from you and not fate and they aren’t necessarily a good idea, but a starting point or a place to reflect. It can be throwing a life preserver to a mind thrashing in the waters of uncertainty, you’re still in the water, but you’re ready to start swimming now.
Nah, you can't reason someone out of a belief they weren't reasoned into.
I don't think that's true, and I don't think you really believe that either.........
But I believe it after testing the hypothesis multiple times!
Is that a reference to that tweeter thread about it?
Honestly?
No.
The original comment was "you can't reason someone out of a belief they weren't reasoned into" and I was just playing on that by trying to reason them out of the belief that you can't reason someone out of a belief............
Or at least suggest that you can reason someone out of a belief they weren't reasoned into. Because it seems within reason that you can reason someone out of a belief they weren't reasoned into and the reason I suggest that is it seems perfectly reasonable.
(Yeah -- sometimes I just get bored and want to see how long I can keep a sentence going and use the same word in it before it breaks down into total chaos).
my zodiac sign is Barnum effect
I'm a Cordova
Is your leather fine, rich or soft?
Usually fine, but when Mercury is in retrograde it becomes rich.
Here is a clip of James Randi doing the 'individualized' horoscopes for a room full of people. I think this is the experiment mentioned in the image.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dp2Zqk8vHw&pp=ygUVamFtZXMgcmFuZGkgYXN0cm9sb2d5
They will interpret these results in the manner that seems best to them:-).
Obviously biased. Every astrologer is a world leading expert. That's just a true and correct fact. Where are the error bars? Why not use violin plots? Correct science is what will prove astrology correct. I know that because I'm a Leo. Seriously, astrology is important for weeding out tinder profiles.
https://youtu.be/_0QMKFzW9fw
Astrology can't define a person, but maybe astronomy can. Astronomers study space objects way more than astrologists. I bet they actually know how those objects affect our moods and shit.
"A meteor hit your car. I predict this will have a negative impact on your work life this week."
Wait, they all did 5 out of 12? That means you can make statistical predictions with astrology by selecting the opposite of what the astrologer predicts!
Nobody did better than 5/12. And looking at the average, most didn't even come close to that.
You'd think they would have seen that coming
yeah truth hurts
I'm not sure "fucked off" is an expression....
Are you fucked off about the title? 😉
It is, at the southern edge of the English-speaking world.
I jokingly trolled an astrology forum that were giving their predictions for 2020 with “hindsight is 2020”
Necessary work. However, that last instructon isn't science, it's education.
Barnum Statement
What on earth does this mean? I'm not a world-class expert in mathology but I've never seen this kind of relative comparison before.
None of the 152 people in the trial correctly guessed correctly on more than 5 profiles, out of the 12 profiles they were given.
I think they just left off the subject of each phrase; 0 out of 152 astrologists did better than 5 out of 12 questions. Though it is phrased weirdly either way.
Well I suppose what they're saying is no response had a success rate equal to or greater than fifty percent, but yeah it's not exactly reported academically.
Because astrology is something that lends itself to clear academic reporting?
This would benefit from error bars for the estimates.
It's time that somebody clears up with that mess, seriously.
Astrology I think works better when they focus less on predicting people's characteristics than looking at people's patterns in their life. If Saturn is returning to your "insert astrology term here" that means 29 years have happened which means great changes which is pretty typical for humans. People go through big changes at their late 20s and late 50s / early 60s. Since the stars goes through regular patterns and using this a time based guide a lot can be understood about human nature. This is a lot of astrology but the patterns at birth is more popular or at least the most commonly understood portion of it.
I'm pretty sure that last one was a Derren Brown bit on one if his TV shows.
It's all bollocks, but if this sort of thing helps you through the day then you do you.
Wait… they gave all the participants the same reading? So all of their conclusions are based on the reading of a single person, which may or may not be accurately represented?
I’m not one for astrology, but this seems like r/atheism level science glazing for a fairly unscientific analysis.
That was a separate experiment.
Ah I see, there were 12 readings. My mistake.