Depends. He seems pretty out of it right now and I don't know how much he would really accomplish. He's also pretty old and unhealthy.
But if he comes back angry and the people around him are effective, then yeah we would start looking for other places to live. I'm not trying to live in a Russian-style handmaid's tale.
I don't think it's dramatic to suggest Trump may actually put an end to our democracy though. Another Lemmy commenter summed it up best. They pointed out that we on the left may have disagreed with McCain or Bush, but we never once feared that they would seize power or leave NATO. We trusted them to at least keep the ship afloat and respect the basic tenants of our free and democratic nation.
With Trump, we don't have that. All bets are off because he's an unhinged narcissist. He would leave NATO and risk the Pax Americana that has stabilized the world for almost 100 years now. And he would do it for money, for negative attention, or just because someone told him he couldn't. America has some pretty major faults but China and Russia are not ready to take the reigns. Say what you will about the West but we at least endeavor to protect human rights. I think anyone who isn't trying to build on the current Western peace is incredibly dangerous in a very scary way.
Everyone should read their Project 2025 plan, they plan on consolidating power by firing or arresting any non Right winger in power or employed by the government, among many other fascistic power consolidation wet dreams:
He would leave NATO and risk the Pax Americana that has stabilized the world for almost 100 years now.
Stabilizing the world is just flat out wrong. At best, the US has stabilized itself and a select few allies. Palestine, Iraq and Afghanistan most recently, along with a whole bunch of countries in Central and South America over the last 100 years would probably feel quite strongly that the US has been a disruptive force for them.
As a devout lefty who thinks America and capitalism need a lot more checks and balances, I have to somewhat disagree with you.
When we talk peace, we are talking relative terms. And I suppose I should also add prosperity into the mix.
I think the West has enabled a period of relative peace and prosperity never before seen. And I think it's getting, overall, better every day. Technology and capitalism, for all their evils, have lifted billions out of poverty and saved billions of lives.
I'm rather curious how you relativise a lot of the US' recent history. Sure, Iraq and Afghanistan weren't pillars of stability, but I think the balance comes down pretty hard against the US with Vietnam and other Southeast Asian nations as well. Our continued support of Israel and Saudi Arabia isn't looking so hot either.
Then we've got military intervention in the Dominican Republic and support of Trujillo until he stopped being useful, installing the Pinochet regime after helping topple the government of Salvador Allende, support for the military dictatorship in Brazil, as well as backing dictatorships in Argentina.
Our colonization of the Philippines was pretty awful, as is our continued treatment of Puerto Rico as essentially a vacation spot and Caribbean ghetto.
You get the idea. Seriously, I'm hard pressed to think of an instance in the last century where the US has intervened on the international stage and actually has a credible claim to having done good with the exception of World War II.
The government has created and fought for stability for a small subset of monied interests and has largely left the rest of us to jump for whatever table scraps they deign to let fall to us plebs. As @Nokinori mentions, even domestically, things are increasingly coming undone at the seams and looking ready to get worse.
Unfortunately, that’s all come at a cost of destroying and destabilizing billions of lives. I’m not disagreeing that a lot of people have benefitted from that. Competition - which is what capitalism is when you distill it and ignore all the inside ball that corporations and governments play - generates new ideas and promotes the ones that generate the most capital. But it also leaves a lot of people behind. And for now let’s just ignore the idea that there could be anything else as noble as the generation of more capital.
In the US, wealth inequality is only getting worse, with homeless populations and food scarcity continuing to grow and things like access to healthcare and quality education on the decline. And there are areas of the world that have been radically destabilized by the US to retain that position of dominance and prosperity.
If you look for a nation with the current / recent, per capita record for ‘lifting people out of poverty’ you’d have to give the medal to China. Do I think the way they’ve done things over the last few decades is producing a healthy society? Nope. I’d much rather live in the US than in China. But I don’t think the US is producing a healthy society either. We’re all just screwed up in our own ways, fighting for resources and acting like our way of doing things is ok because it’s what we are indoctrinated into from a young age.
The US focuses on generating capital as a metric of success because it enables geopolitical dominance and prosperity for just enough people to keep the wheels rolling.
I did not view Bush at all like Trump. Really disliked his political takes on most things and thought he was embarrassingly dumb some times but it never ever even crossed my mind that he was a threat to the republic. And actually admired his composure and leadership after 9/11. They're not even remotely comparable.
I viewed Bush as an incompetent moron with business cronies crawling in to every spot in his administration. I don't recall people saying he was a wannabe dictator, he had at least some respect for the Constitution and the electoral process. Trump on the other hand, put extreme pressure on the DoJ to direct investigations away from him, minimize their impact or bury them as best as possible. His administration freaking extradited a convicted Russian agent back to her home country because she was funneling money and propaganda to the GOP through the NRA. Trump is a wannabe dictator, he didn't get to be one because he didn't have to spine to follow through with his coup because he knew he needed the thinnest amount of plausible deniability to give his GOP sycophants cover to justify letting him off the hook if it failed.
how about the opposite view: trump supporters feel Trump will be good. He will allow the USA to become much more independent and cut off paying for other nations' wars. why should we pay for them? there is no need for america to be the guardian of democracy or anything. We just want to live god-fearing lives and raise good families. We don't need the rest of the world. Our military can stomp out any invaders.
He will allow the USA to become much more independent and cut off paying for other nations' wars. He will allow the USA to become much more independent and cut off paying for other nations' wars.
Kowtowing to countries like China and Russia, allowing them to win strategic victories, will make them more powerful and give them more influence on US politics. Ie. the US would become less independent.
You don't become more independent by telling countries like China that you give up.
In the case of Ukraine, they're one of the world's top exporters of grain, which is in part why food prices have been rising globally.
We don't need the rest of the world.
You do. The world has globalised. At least 40 million American jobs are directly reliant on exports. The rest of the world also produces stuff like oil. Fuel prices would skyrocket.
A lot of unprofitable stuff has also been moved overseas. It would cost money to make it in the US. Many resources are also rare in the US. Stuff like rare-earth elements. Good luck importing from countries which have signed deals with China, because they're the new super power. Combined with de-dollarisation this would also cause massive issues, rampant inflation for example. You think it's bad now? You ain't seen nothing yet.
Our military can stomp out any invaders.
No one needs to invade the US. It's cheaper to simply buy a candidate or blackmail him. This allows countries like China to push through legislation which favours their business and strategic interests. Eg. dropping support for Ukraine or dropping support of Taiwan so that China can take control of advance chip industries.
In the long term, the US would find it hard to sustain a huge military budget when facing economic turmoil and a debt crisis. Especially in relative terms. China has a population of 1.4 billion. If the US withdraws from the Asia-Pacific and Europe, they're likely to become part of the Chinese sphere of influence. A country of 300 million, will inevitably be pushed around by a power bloc of 3 billion.
Of course, none of this will convince a Trump supporter, because most base their support on emotions not reason. And once they find they can't afford to fill up on gas, or groceries, they'll blame anyone but themselves.
Many resources are also rare in the US. Stuff like rare-earth elements.
This is actually incorrect. Rare-earth elements aren't that rare, they're just difficult to extract and the processes are worse on the environment than most types of mining
Well how about doing anything remotely Godly? I mean seriously, the stuff ol Jesus H Christ tried teaching y'all seems to have been completely missed. You lot would call him "Woke".
I'm glad you stick to the "I'm a Christian" lark, as if there is a hell, you'll be more than likely heading there.
We just want to live god-fearing lives and raise good families.
And the main difference between us is that I don't really care if you do that, while your friends will label my future family with two dads as a gross perversion that calls for state intervention in order to prevent the terrible abuse of a child having two loving parents that happen to both be men, as if it's not abusive to raise a child under the terror of thinking that they're always being watched and will be tortured for all eternity if they wind up being attracted to the same gender. But ultimately, that's your life and I'll leave you to it. I'd just ask for the same courtesy.
Well said. Personally I lost respect at “god-fearing.” What a silly notion. To feel the need to express it to strangers is also silly. Don’t talk about your religion unless I ask. We’re all the same until you make us different. And all the other beliefs were pretty unpleasant, so we’d still be different. Oh well.
It's ironic that people who want to live "God-fearing lives" are basically choosing to worship the antichrist. Because that's what Trump is. You know people by their actions, not whatever bull crap they spout to get reelected.
I'm not claiming you're voting for Trump. But voting for other Republicans because they (claim to) align with your religious views will only give Trump more power if he gets voted in
And that's the issue. That "we" represents fewer than half of Americans. The past three times Republicans have won has been only because a person in S. Dakota's vote counts for more than a person in California.
Oh yeah living a God fearing life sounds amazing. Nothing I like more than constantly fearing an invisible sky person will send me to a fiery hell if I don't constantly worship him.
As another commenter rightfully pointed out - you don't get to be independent and isolationist at the same time.
Indigenous island tribes may have had this luxury for a time, but once your nation is known by another nation, it's compete or die.
China and various other countries would immediately start filling the power vacuum. Your standard of living would drop immensely and your grandchildren would be consuming Chinese culture within a decade or two at most. The American dollar, America's total dominance in science/culture/medicine, the spread of the English language - these could all be wiped out fairly quickly if America just threw up its hands and said we were done.
What you're suggesting would be like Apple saying they're going to take it easy and just stick with the iPhone 15 for good. The result would be an immediate power grab and some other company would pull ahead, leaving Apple so far behind they'd never catch up again.
i'll worry about it if and when it happens. i have wasted too much time, energy and resources worrying and catastrophizing about things i cannot control.
Voting is important, I also like to think about other tangible ways to build power - like what is power? It's being able to eat, having a place to live, having healthcare, saying what I want, associating with who I want, deciding how I spend my time.
I think about how the Mondragon complex, probably the largest worker cooperative in the world, started in Franco's Spain, and turned one of the poorest regions into one of the wealthiest.
I'd like to think I would stay and work to gain more power for myself and my peers - I want to stay and join/start a worker cooperative. I want to see a massive ecosystem of worker owned enterprises, which will translate to tangible power. Getting organized means being better able to fight off the kind of oppression Trump promises.
As much of a joke as it is, that's a real option for me. Won't pull the trigger on day one, but you bet your ass I'll be ready to go at a moments notice.
Statistically, most people who pop off about moving to Canada won't have an easy time of it, but the two countries do share one of the world's longest land borders and have countless economic and cultural ties. There are undoubtedly thousands of people in the US who have citizenship or eligibility for work permits, along with some financial means.
Exactly. I would've left this country years ago if it was that simple. I can't afford to vacation in Canada, let alone move there, and I live in a northern state.
Watch Democrats blame people they were actively hostile towards for not enthusiastically waiting for hours in the cold to vote for them.
Then watch the world's longest-running uninterrupted democracy with the world's largest military and the world's largest nuclear arsenal become a fascist dictatorship. Maybe I'll die quickly and have a chance to be envied.
Fix your messaging, Dems. Pretend he's a progressive and oppose him.
Honestly, just point to his examples of government overreach! Heck if Dems really wanted to hurt him, do some overreach that they want to do anyway and make sure that they thank the man, heck say without him this would be impossible and that if we don't take advantage of it someone else will!
Just go hard on red flag laws, just use those bad boys up on all of their opponents, and say "Trump was awful for a lot of things, but thank god he got some of the strongest anti gun laws on the books in decades, without him, we couldn't have gone after this dangerous far right militia, he really made this inevitable."
To prove our mousey worth
and overthrow the Earth.
Before the night is done,
our plan will be unfurled.
By the dawning of the sun,
we’ll take over the world.
I already moved. It's not just Trump that's the problem, and even if he loses in 2024, or does in office, the issues still will persist. America needs to figure out how to make the judicial system work properly and norms need to be codified. Vast swaths of the population need to change their culture of "us vs them".
I won't be going back, the way things work with Republicans, you can't just move to a blue state, you have to move out of the country.
Usually I'd grab my bucket of popcorn and watch another 4 years of the shitshow that is US politics.
Unfortunately, this time the same kind of shitshow is happening across the pond in quite a few countries (not just the usual eastern ex-soviet states), including my country. Populist morons fueled by the Trump, Bolsonaro, Le pen, Orbán cookbook.
People are eating this up on social networks and voting for them. I feel it's going to get real nasty.
Yeah! What's so delightful about things is how the U.S. tends to kind of set the climate for the politics in the west. The nazi party here in Sweden wasn't doing bad per se, but after Trump's victory they skyrocketed! They became the second biggest party last election, beating out the milquetoast bourgeoisie for the first time ever.
Believe Italy has the same issue currently. Lovely stuff.
Mind you I'm not blaming the U.S., it's just that big headlines over there tends to colour ours too.
Not just western countries, either. You even see countries like China and Russia devolving too, collecting power, raising to the poverty index to make it look like russians aren't starving, making term limits virtually indefinite, jailing opponents.
Only thing is that they've got a head start on making bad decisions, China since 2012, Russia since the 00s.
Local. State. Federal. Like I always have. I also moved out of a "shithole" state in the words of our treasonous former president.
With China having a severe gender imbalance and a massive generation (age) imbalance, it's going to cause all sorts of problems for them soon. Big, big fucking problems. And Russia just had all their young men flee, die stupidly, or decide Russia might not be the best place after they've released shittons of violent offenders, lol. Russia's future looks dim at best. Iran isn't looking too healthy either.
So the bottom line is this: no matter where you go, you aren't outrunning a shift to a multipolar world, especially one where resources like fresh water and food will be getting more scarce as climate change fucks the world and countries get more desperate, particularly authoritarian ones that are losing a tenuous grip on their people. That shit always causes wars, because humans are too fucking stupid to prioritize science in any other context.
Countries with democracy and immigration and the means to defend themselves and their friends are your best bet. Our fate and your own fate are intrinsically linked because of that.
Set up monthly donations to the ACLU and Planned Parenthood, volunteer as a PP escort, open up my (Illinois) home to women and families who need to travel for reproductive healthcare.
This isn't off the top of my head, my spouse and I discussed it years ago, before the previous election.
Same as I've been doing since he won last time. Stay in my more liberal home state, extend understanding to friends and relatives who live in conservative states, extend invitations to the few who might need to move to keep themselves safe. Keep donating and volunteering with the organizations I've been supporting.
I have a friend who is thinking about seeking asylum in the US. I have encouraged her to weigh her other options; there are other countries where she has friends and family that might be more welcoming to her. If Trump gets elected, I'm not sure she'll even have a viable path to the US.
He's literally on trial for a coup that failed and thats surprisingly well? What went well in your opinion the coup that didn't work, or the trial(s) that are ongoing?
He’s literally on trial for a coup that failed and thats surprisingly well?
A properly-functioning society would've executed Trump for treason by now. Hell, even the fucked-up Weimar Republic had managed to try, convict, and imprison Hitler by the time three years had gone by since the Beer Hall Putsch.
Meanwhile, Trump hasn't even so much as seen the inside of a jail cell yet, so things are going extraordinarily well for him.
Im not going to defend the court draging their ass but its a hell of a lot easier to try a dead man over one who won't shut up. Hes also in the same situation as his little insurgent fans, those cases took and are taking quite a long time too, I still wouldn't call that better than expected. If he doesn't see the inside of a cell thats better than expected but by all meausre of lawyers commenting on his cases, 'better than expected' is not a take I'm hearing.
When we look at other countries that have had successful coups overturn their governments, the most common indicator among them is a previous unsuccessful coup plot.
Fortunate enough to also have EU citizenship, so I've already made arrangements to leave the country in that case. Will keep voting from overseas, though.
Probably get sent to a concentration camp. Dunno if California will secede from the union to preserve human rights, if it comes between secession or letting the DHS collect all our immigrants and non-trad women.
Wish I could say that I'd move to another country, but realistically I can't afford that. I'd guess I'd live life as normal but I'd always be paranoid at the increased risk of violence against trans people.
Here is the hate crime incident count as reported from the FBI data explorer website. As you can see the count had been falling after 2001 up until 2016 where it then starts rising again.
and it's in the tens of thousands now that Joe is in office, do you want to explain that, or will you decide to pin the blame on the politician of the day to be a scapegoat? If you haven't realized, the "hate crimes" aren't being committed by just people who you politically disagree with, and saying they are is just pushing the blame onto others
I mean it's pretty obvious things haven't recovered from Trumps term. 2 months after joe won the election was jan 6th, but it wasn't joe supporters doing that. If you look at the data graphed it has hints of possibly leveling off and slowing its huge growth. We can't really say for sure as the FBI data wasn't available past 2022. I am sorry you feel people are personally attacking you when they call out conservative terrorism, but it's real issue and both sides are not the same in this respect. This isn't team sports, this shit has real world effects. I doubt I can get through to you though so I will just end it here, have a nice day.
I would like to make you aware of the fact that it's been proven most of the people in the Jan. 6 insurrection were government employees. I'm sorry simply having a discussion with you makes you feel like you have to defend yourself, but many of your sources and statements are either false or misleading, and clearly it would be a waste of my time conversing with someone that absorbed in their point of view. Good day!
Be a constant reminder to my neighbors to avoid authoritarianism. Continue to push for self and local community reliance. Keep pushing my local governments and organizations to remain or become more inclusive.
Something new though? Maybe support an inclusive civics focused militia near me, if for no other reason so that marginalized people can feel like they have a community that will really fight for them or at least help them defend themselves if things really get that bad.
Donations to the ACLU. They seem like the best bet for the hardest fight of preserving the rights of immigrants. Among all the other things, they have to defend against as well.
Continue living in not America. Continue, as an overseas voter, to vote for things I believe in. Do everything I can to get ranked choice to be a thing everywhere and otherwise eliminate the firat-past-the-post bullshit that exists today
Yes. The first-past-the-post and weird two-party thing going on in the US is awful and needs to be gone. There are potentially other solutions, but ranked-choice voting seems to be a good start. There are whole rabbitholes about the electoral college, proportional representation, and other things to get into, but my coffee hasn't kicked in yet this morning.
Don't listen to them Canada, it's just a casserole with a disarming accent. Absorb Washington instead, we've got chicken teriyaki and won't talk your ear off.
My boyfriend is Swiss, and there's been a loose open conversation over where we'd want to end up settling long-term. A second Trump term would definitely add several points in the Switzerland column.
Do so now before prices spike. Keep in mind, there is a high learning curve with firearms. Even the simple safety rules require practice to make them unbreakable habits.
How does it take practice to treat something with respect? All 4 of the rules I mentioned are time tested and industry standard. I was an NRA instructor for a number of years. There's a reason these 4 rules are drilled into everyone's head. Again, if you can't read, understand, and follow those 4 incredibly simple things, you're not mature enough, responsible enough, or ready to have a firearm. It's quite simple.
There's a reason these 4 rules are drilled into everyone's head.
To make them habits? Sounds like we agree. Talking about the rules is one thing. People practicing those rules under supervision is where we get results.
As an instructor, I know damn well you had to correct people from time to time. I've done it. That means our students were practicing, getting better.
I can teach my 8 and 10-yo kids the rules, get them to regurgitate them to me. But until we get on the range, I know one of 'em is going to try to flag me. Again, practice.
and follow those 4 incredibly simple things
LOL, that's why I don't go to a range anymore. Mine was private, only $150/yr., and no one acted foolish. But still, I want to relax and not have my head on a swivel.
I would be surprised if he wins. It really feels like his time has passed. But if he does I will use resistbot to its fullest capacity.
I don’t think there will be a presidency after him if he does though. I think people generally underestimate the violence it will bring.
Not to mention, they are very used to making poor decisions (see: invasions of Afghanistan & Iraq) and also not fighting back when their elections are stolen or interfered with. (See: Brooks Brother Riot and Trump election)
Youre right about the violence if he does, but I think its much more likely than anyone wants to admit. I'll be extremely and pleasently surprised if he doesnt win with the way the wind is blowing
I wouldn't be surprised. He doesn't exactly have the strongest opponent. I like to look at prediction markets to get an idea of what the odds are, and it looks like the gamblers currently think there's only a 52% chance of a Democrat winning the presidency. But, it's really hard to tell what will happen right now. Trump, Biden, or both could die before the election. We may begin a recession. OPEC is cutting oil production, with some people hypothesizing it is to influence the U.S. election. Russia and other countries will likely ramp up disinformation like we've never seen before, powered by the new AI bots and deepfake technology.
Honestly I have no idea. I live in the midwest and I am rather poor, so I imagine I will just start hording canned food and glare at people through the curtains like usual
Maybe be able to finally afford a house with all these people planning to leave the country. Other then that hunker down and deal with shit as it comes like always.
Just keep going about my daily life. The result of the election is not going to change where I live or where I work. The Federal Government doesn't have much of an impact on my day to day life, beyond federal laws and regulatory agencies. I don't see those changing in an (immediately) catastrophic way. Most of my day to day life is determined by my state and town government.
I've been visiting English speaking countries and kind of scouting where might be a good option if America had a serious issue. Canada would be my first choice because of proximity and shared values. New Zealand #2, then probably UK or Ireland.
I'm a cybersecurity professional with a lot of experience and I hope that would be welcomed in most countries but idk. I don't want to move, and would stick around for a bit to see initially how things go but if it kicks right back to 2020's level of insanity I'm 100% out.
We all understand he can in no way actually be allowed to retake that office again, correct? I don't give one flying fuck if he wins, or not. He cannot under any circumstances be allowed.
Well since I've been very vocally liberal and anti-Trump over the past 8 years or so, I suspect I'll end up dying in a labor camp.
I don't have the means to get out of the county beforehand or I'd already be out, and I think there's effectively no country that's going to be willing to take political refugees from the United States afterwords, so I'm pretty well fucked.
If you honestly think the US under Trump is going to put liberals in labor camps despite watching his whole first term flounder on anything that wasn't already galvinized by the GOPs platform I think you need to watch less sensationalized news.
Roe v Wade is gone & Abortion Laws are in full swing.
Net Neutrality was killed.
Trump made an attempt at building the border fence, which he claims was because the wall was more of a security issue than a fence they could 'look' through.
Trump attempted a Coup.
Trump is not your wishy-washy, wealth-hording politician of yore. He is a power-grabbing fascist with literally no filter. He tries to keep quiet, but he'll say the quiet parts out loud.
If he had managed to maintain his office, he was basically inches away from gutting public education.
And this was what he was doing to be 'reserved'. He told his audience to 'wait' until he 'won' reelection at the end of 2020 in regards to 'dealing with fauci'. Which implies there are other things he was waiting to do until he had secured his final term.
The only reason his insanity didn't happen all at once, was because of the initial whiplash between the old mask-on GOP and the new mask-off GOP. They lost out in the latter half of his presidency when the democrats took back the house.
if Trump was certain he could have instated his dictatorship in his first term, he would have done it. The new GOP is not like the 90s GOP. There are certainly those who feign ignorance and dissidence, but when push comes to shove, they tow the line.
Why would so many states have abortion laws ready to go? Why would so many states have complied in the attempt from Trump to steal the election?
If you think the GOP is bluffing, you are not paying attention.
They are absolutely bluffing and if you truly think there's going to be some 'dictatorship', you're fucking stupid. Our presidents already use their dictatorship power in Executive Orders, but no one seems to bat an eye at those, esp when it's "Your Guy" that signed the most ever in his first 90 or so days in office.
My favorite thing about this is somehow Biden has little power as president to materially change things without congress, even when he had a slim majority, but Trumps somehow single handedly gonna put democrats in camps. Its sensational bs thats never going to happen but you can use it to pretend you're being victimized for being a liberal, you're not.
I think you're discrediting that there's a decent chance that Trump is at least going to try to turn the US into a dictatorship. I'm hoping any attempt will fail, but there's been weirder successes throughout history
And I think people who claim Trump is going to put Americans in camps do nothing but polarize the political landscape more than it already is. If you sincerely believe Trump would have the ability to line up political dissedents up in mass and send them to camps, you've reached a level of delusion that is unhealthy. Theres no evidence Republicans are going to gain nearly enough seats for a supermajority, so please explain to me how Trump sends democrats to camps. It's a sensational divisive claim that does nothing but worsen an already shit electoral climate. Its the same level of crazy as claiming Bidens going to take away your guns. Even if thats what he said he wanted, he lacks any way to do so.
The only people actually goin to camps are immigrants and last I checked those are still open and functioning.
My concerns are generally not Trump as a person, but rather that his handlers are more organized and prepared. As an individual I think DeSantis is much more concerning, as far as actually implemented policy that is in effect and damaging today, and he's also going to be around for a long time.
I don't think liberals are going to labor camps any time soon, but life could be much more difficult for many marginalized groups as conservatives seek out the new boogyman now that abortion doesn't work as well.
don't worry too much buddy, the worst that can happen is your political view gets relentlessly strawmanned, treated as an attack on freedom, and most of the internet will find it acceptable to openly mock, ridicule, and threaten you for your beliefs and overexaggerate the candidate most closely associated with your point of view (whether true or not) as an unstable hateful fascist dictator, as well as adopting the most dramatic persecution complex possible, whining that their election will result in your shunning and death.
I had been scrolling through this thread, wondering when I was going to find the dumbest possible post, and I'm thankful that I can stop reading now that I've found it.
I will legit try to find countries with constitutions and parliaments that I could relocate to to live and work. The American constitutional Republic will be over if Trump becomes President again.
He'll certainly start his retribution with the big fish of anti Trump people and organizations, but it won't take long for it to "trickle down" to everyday people as well.
I'm lucky enough that it's feasible for me to find work in my field outside the US. Others aren't so lucky.
some of us are not allowed to vote so doing the same thing as the last election
hope people one day quit voting for one of the demopublicans and choose some third party
as an american dissident unable to vote it feels like trapped in a country that does not want us deciding things or having a voice of any kind just here to be a disposable warm body
yes it is like that rick and morty episode with the body theme park you know things are dying and rotting and falling apart around you but that is the extent of your powers unless someone on the outside intervenes
In this case I am inclined to think it's a good thing, being able to move to another country, that's only 2 - 3 hours away. Even if it's technically the same thing, someone moving from Miami to the same city, would culturally feel like moving to another part of the world.
Depends on what he does. Since I'm in the least likely demographic to be targeted (hmm, unless they start going through political groups I've been a member of), probably the same as I'm doing now. If it looks like there will be a civil war, I'd probably try to leave the country, but I guess that'd be too late, and I think a civil war is unlikely. I don't think many people would be willing to give their lives for... the Democratic party? I think the U.S. will become more like Russia (fake elections in red states [ensuring the Republican party the presidency and congress forever], more brutal police oppression, erosion of rights, opposition leaders falling out of windows, and encouragement of vigilante "justice" against whoever the "enemy" is at the time). I think protests and riots would be the most people would do, and they'd likely be met with increasingly deadly force.
Since covid, I make sure I keep a few months of non-perishables and water on hand in case of temporary supply chain disruptions, and I have plenty of wood to heat or cook with if needed. If there is a severe economic downturn (which is likely to happen in the unstable environment Trump would provide), and I couldn't find another well-paying job, I'd probably lose my home for not being able to pay my mortgage though.
I live in a very conservative place in the south where even the queer people are here pretty conservative hopefully he doesn't win... Didn't think I needed to spell it out until I remembered the people I live around so yeah I guess it makes sense 🥲
Lisbon, though we have some other ideas. We went through the process of research and consideration a few years ago and were seriously going to move. We didn't and are glad for that, and glad to have gone through that process in case we decide to leave.
I’ve been practicing my French for a reason. Not good enough to make a move to France yet but Canada or UK/Ireland with regular trips to France to work on it might be in the books.
It won’t be immediate, I’ll wait to see what happens but if the fascist shit keeps up I’m dipping.
You do know that you're probably studying Parisian french, and the Quebeckers don't speak that? They speak a dialect based on french from 400 years ago, that honestly sounds like a drunk German speaking french as a second language.
Yea buts it’s closer than English, the Canadian move would be temporary anyway in my hopes. They’re starting to trend towards the same problems America is facing
Continue to live my life. The president has much less to do with the daily lives of Americans than the media would lead you to believe. They represent only one of the three branches of government.
"The Chancellor has much less to do with the daily lives of Germans than the media would lead you to believe." -- Folks who died in concentration camps, probably
As a Canadian I'm not sure what I would do for the next election if it is Trump vs Biden. I can't support someone who keeps supporting Israel after their actions in the last couple of months. But Trump literally said he will jail journalist and protesters and wants to invade mexico. I also feel like Trump would support Israel too .
You think that Biden was forced into this? Did somebody put a gun to his head? Do you honestly believe that Bernie Sanders would've said the same things if he were president?
Well, it's very easy for you to make a claim like that, because it's impossible for me to disprove it, but I find it implausible. For one thing, Trump did a lot of things that people thought were impossible for a president to do.
Republicans have been vocal in support of Israel. I mean Lindsey Graham, a major trump backer, said Israel should completely level Gaza. People criticizing Biden and acting like Republicans would not be even worse regarding Palestine are not grounded in reality.
Be glad I'm not at the top of their list, and try to help my friends that are. Can't do much to sway the scared of nothing millions that will vote for him. So I'm looking for overseas jobs that pay relo, and I if I don't make it out, hunker down and hope there is a country left to salvage at the end.
Nothing in particular. I am already planning for a Christian Nationalism state. Might as well ask me if I am already leaving a building because of a smoking detector going off if I would do something different if a second smoke detector went off.
I already know where I’ll try to emigrate. I chose a new preferred country after seeing how shitty large swaths of my fellow Americans behaved in 2020. Absolute shitheads.
Continually live life just like the last time he was in office. It's the same as when anybody else has taken office. Opposition says it's going to be the worst ever but in the grand scheme nothing changes.
Nothing, same as the first time. He couldn't do what he wants anyway, the stuff he can do can get reversed just as easily. All the other stuff is just noise.
Since I don't care who wins, I'll do what I've done every day after an election: get up, go to work, come home, play with the kids, eat some dinner, maybe shag the wife.
I'm not amercain and don't live in america but If i were to guess what would happen most of the people here would winge about it on social media for a few days after post election then contuine to live there lives till the next election where they'll vote for the stinky smelly and otherwise smelling of bo red turd or yellow piss stained blue turd rince and repeat no one political party is better than the other there both as equally as bad as the other
The GOP are idiotic if they think he even has a chance of winning. He lost last time and I only know of republucans who said they would never vote for him in another election. I don't know of a single person that didn't vote for him before that would now.
The vote margin in swing states in each of the past few presidential elections has been razor thin. It only takes a few thousand people in each swing state staying home to swing the election his way.
Centrist voters in the US are also quite prone to "fuck you" votes against the president's party when they aren't happy about economic conditions, and lots of Americans are feeling a cost of living pinch right now.
In October polling, 78% of Americans said the country was headed in the wrong direction.
It's really not far from possible that he-who-shall-not-be-named gets in again. He has a hardened base that has been drinking the Kool-aid of his stolen election rhetoric, up against a disillusioned and scattered Democratic coalition that has been losing steam among demographics like African Americans and Latinos.
He doesn't need to win new voters. He just needs Biden to lose a few.
For sure! The CoL thing is a major issue! The fact that most of the money supply pumped into the market was under Trump's direction (pressuring the Fed, Tax Cuts, business stimulus, and a little bit the personal stimulus) and that Biden is the first president in decades to actually follow economist opinions on what to do about it (limit money supply, raise interest, expand supply of raw material sources, pressure investment in actual good creation, etc) means very little to others who can just say "Don't you wish things were the way they were 4 years ago".
I don't think it matters all that much if trump/republicans win or if Biden/democrats win.
I feel like I've seen enough elections in my life to know that the POTUS is largely just a human sock puppet for the peasants to fight over online and in the street.
No matter which corporate owned tool wins the gameplan stays the same.
Impoverish you. Obey the donors. Sanctions + bombs. Tax cuts. Turn their pockets inside out when it comes to anything poor/working class people need. I could go on but I think you get the point.
The slow suicidal summersault into ww3 shall continue. Buckle up.
Depends. He seems pretty out of it right now and I don't know how much he would really accomplish. He's also pretty old and unhealthy.
But if he comes back angry and the people around him are effective, then yeah we would start looking for other places to live. I'm not trying to live in a Russian-style handmaid's tale.
I don't think it's dramatic to suggest Trump may actually put an end to our democracy though. Another Lemmy commenter summed it up best. They pointed out that we on the left may have disagreed with McCain or Bush, but we never once feared that they would seize power or leave NATO. We trusted them to at least keep the ship afloat and respect the basic tenants of our free and democratic nation.
With Trump, we don't have that. All bets are off because he's an unhinged narcissist. He would leave NATO and risk the Pax Americana that has stabilized the world for almost 100 years now. And he would do it for money, for negative attention, or just because someone told him he couldn't. America has some pretty major faults but China and Russia are not ready to take the reigns. Say what you will about the West but we at least endeavor to protect human rights. I think anyone who isn't trying to build on the current Western peace is incredibly dangerous in a very scary way.
Everyone should read their Project 2025 plan, they plan on consolidating power by firing or arresting any non Right winger in power or employed by the government, among many other fascistic power consolidation wet dreams:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025#:~:text=The%20plan%20proposes%20slashing%20U.S.,departments%20of%20education%20and%20commerce.
https://www.project2025.org/
https://www.heritage.org/conservatism/commentary/project-2025
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/conservatives-aim-to-restructure-u-s-government-and-replace-it-with-trumps-vision
https://bpr.berkeley.edu/2023/11/17/project-2025-democratic-doomsday/
https://www.advocate.com/news/project-2025-republicans-maga
https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/project-2025-heritage-foundation-christian-nationalism-rcna103510
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jul/27/project-2025-dismantle-us-climate-policy-next-republican-president
https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/16h9fqe/what_is_the_deal_with_project_2025/
I humbly request you post this in https://lemmy.cafe/c/benjamingetthemusket
Make the thread and I'll pin it
Stabilizing the world is just flat out wrong. At best, the US has stabilized itself and a select few allies. Palestine, Iraq and Afghanistan most recently, along with a whole bunch of countries in Central and South America over the last 100 years would probably feel quite strongly that the US has been a disruptive force for them.
As a devout lefty who thinks America and capitalism need a lot more checks and balances, I have to somewhat disagree with you.
When we talk peace, we are talking relative terms. And I suppose I should also add prosperity into the mix.
I think the West has enabled a period of relative peace and prosperity never before seen. And I think it's getting, overall, better every day. Technology and capitalism, for all their evils, have lifted billions out of poverty and saved billions of lives.
I'm rather curious how you relativise a lot of the US' recent history. Sure, Iraq and Afghanistan weren't pillars of stability, but I think the balance comes down pretty hard against the US with Vietnam and other Southeast Asian nations as well. Our continued support of Israel and Saudi Arabia isn't looking so hot either.
Then we've got military intervention in the Dominican Republic and support of Trujillo until he stopped being useful, installing the Pinochet regime after helping topple the government of Salvador Allende, support for the military dictatorship in Brazil, as well as backing dictatorships in Argentina.
Our colonization of the Philippines was pretty awful, as is our continued treatment of Puerto Rico as essentially a vacation spot and Caribbean ghetto.
You get the idea. Seriously, I'm hard pressed to think of an instance in the last century where the US has intervened on the international stage and actually has a credible claim to having done good with the exception of World War II.
The government has created and fought for stability for a small subset of monied interests and has largely left the rest of us to jump for whatever table scraps they deign to let fall to us plebs. As @Nokinori mentions, even domestically, things are increasingly coming undone at the seams and looking ready to get worse.
Unfortunately, that’s all come at a cost of destroying and destabilizing billions of lives. I’m not disagreeing that a lot of people have benefitted from that. Competition - which is what capitalism is when you distill it and ignore all the inside ball that corporations and governments play - generates new ideas and promotes the ones that generate the most capital. But it also leaves a lot of people behind. And for now let’s just ignore the idea that there could be anything else as noble as the generation of more capital.
In the US, wealth inequality is only getting worse, with homeless populations and food scarcity continuing to grow and things like access to healthcare and quality education on the decline. And there are areas of the world that have been radically destabilized by the US to retain that position of dominance and prosperity.
If you look for a nation with the current / recent, per capita record for ‘lifting people out of poverty’ you’d have to give the medal to China. Do I think the way they’ve done things over the last few decades is producing a healthy society? Nope. I’d much rather live in the US than in China. But I don’t think the US is producing a healthy society either. We’re all just screwed up in our own ways, fighting for resources and acting like our way of doing things is ok because it’s what we are indoctrinated into from a young age.
The US focuses on generating capital as a metric of success because it enables geopolitical dominance and prosperity for just enough people to keep the wheels rolling.
But that’s just my perspective.
I'm sure the Ottoman and Austro-Hungarian empires would agree with you, haha.
They were saying all of the same things about W. Bush in 2004.
Not at all. The left viewed W. Bush as a wannabe dictator, not much different from how Trump is viewed now.
I did not view Bush at all like Trump. Really disliked his political takes on most things and thought he was embarrassingly dumb some times but it never ever even crossed my mind that he was a threat to the republic. And actually admired his composure and leadership after 9/11. They're not even remotely comparable.
I viewed Bush as an incompetent moron with business cronies crawling in to every spot in his administration. I don't recall people saying he was a wannabe dictator, he had at least some respect for the Constitution and the electoral process. Trump on the other hand, put extreme pressure on the DoJ to direct investigations away from him, minimize their impact or bury them as best as possible. His administration freaking extradited a convicted Russian agent back to her home country because she was funneling money and propaganda to the GOP through the NRA. Trump is a wannabe dictator, he didn't get to be one because he didn't have to spine to follow through with his coup because he knew he needed the thinnest amount of plausible deniability to give his GOP sycophants cover to justify letting him off the hook if it failed.
how about the opposite view: trump supporters feel Trump will be good. He will allow the USA to become much more independent and cut off paying for other nations' wars. why should we pay for them? there is no need for america to be the guardian of democracy or anything. We just want to live god-fearing lives and raise good families. We don't need the rest of the world. Our military can stomp out any invaders.
Kowtowing to countries like China and Russia, allowing them to win strategic victories, will make them more powerful and give them more influence on US politics. Ie. the US would become less independent.
You don't become more independent by telling countries like China that you give up.
In the case of Ukraine, they're one of the world's top exporters of grain, which is in part why food prices have been rising globally.
You do. The world has globalised. At least 40 million American jobs are directly reliant on exports. The rest of the world also produces stuff like oil. Fuel prices would skyrocket.
A lot of unprofitable stuff has also been moved overseas. It would cost money to make it in the US. Many resources are also rare in the US. Stuff like rare-earth elements. Good luck importing from countries which have signed deals with China, because they're the new super power. Combined with de-dollarisation this would also cause massive issues, rampant inflation for example. You think it's bad now? You ain't seen nothing yet.
No one needs to invade the US. It's cheaper to simply buy a candidate or blackmail him. This allows countries like China to push through legislation which favours their business and strategic interests. Eg. dropping support for Ukraine or dropping support of Taiwan so that China can take control of advance chip industries.
In the long term, the US would find it hard to sustain a huge military budget when facing economic turmoil and a debt crisis. Especially in relative terms. China has a population of 1.4 billion. If the US withdraws from the Asia-Pacific and Europe, they're likely to become part of the Chinese sphere of influence. A country of 300 million, will inevitably be pushed around by a power bloc of 3 billion.
Of course, none of this will convince a Trump supporter, because most base their support on emotions not reason. And once they find they can't afford to fill up on gas, or groceries, they'll blame anyone but themselves.
This is actually incorrect. Rare-earth elements aren't that rare, they're just difficult to extract and the processes are worse on the environment than most types of mining
Well how about doing anything remotely Godly? I mean seriously, the stuff ol Jesus H Christ tried teaching y'all seems to have been completely missed. You lot would call him "Woke".
I'm glad you stick to the "I'm a Christian" lark, as if there is a hell, you'll be more than likely heading there.
And the main difference between us is that I don't really care if you do that, while your friends will label my future family with two dads as a gross perversion that calls for state intervention in order to prevent the terrible abuse of a child having two loving parents that happen to both be men, as if it's not abusive to raise a child under the terror of thinking that they're always being watched and will be tortured for all eternity if they wind up being attracted to the same gender. But ultimately, that's your life and I'll leave you to it. I'd just ask for the same courtesy.
Well said. Personally I lost respect at “god-fearing.” What a silly notion. To feel the need to express it to strangers is also silly. Don’t talk about your religion unless I ask. We’re all the same until you make us different. And all the other beliefs were pretty unpleasant, so we’d still be different. Oh well.
It's ironic that people who want to live "God-fearing lives" are basically choosing to worship the antichrist. Because that's what Trump is. You know people by their actions, not whatever bull crap they spout to get reelected.
God fearing lives != raising good families
You have to pick one or the other.
That's a funny euphemism for "impose your delusions on the rest of society, violating their freedom from religion."
Not necessarily. I believe in God but I don’t have a problem with Jews/Muslims/Atheists/Buddhists/etc
Edit: I didn't mean this as "Trump is good". Fuck him.
Then why vote for politicians that do want to trample on other people's beliefs?
Fuck Trump. I'm not saying voting him is good.
I'm not claiming you're voting for Trump. But voting for other Republicans because they (claim to) align with your religious views will only give Trump more power if he gets voted in
I don't live in the USA, but if I did, I wouldn't care what religion the president is unless he'd ban mine or sth.
You should be fearful of your god because if he’s real you’re fucked.
Admit it, you just have a fetish for being lied to.
Religion in a nutshell
And that's the issue. That "we" represents fewer than half of Americans. The past three times Republicans have won has been only because a person in S. Dakota's vote counts for more than a person in California.
Oh yeah living a God fearing life sounds amazing. Nothing I like more than constantly fearing an invisible sky person will send me to a fiery hell if I don't constantly worship him.
Quite simply, he said he'd do all that in his first term and he didn't.
deleted by creator
As another commenter rightfully pointed out - you don't get to be independent and isolationist at the same time.
Indigenous island tribes may have had this luxury for a time, but once your nation is known by another nation, it's compete or die.
China and various other countries would immediately start filling the power vacuum. Your standard of living would drop immensely and your grandchildren would be consuming Chinese culture within a decade or two at most. The American dollar, America's total dominance in science/culture/medicine, the spread of the English language - these could all be wiped out fairly quickly if America just threw up its hands and said we were done.
What you're suggesting would be like Apple saying they're going to take it easy and just stick with the iPhone 15 for good. The result would be an immediate power grab and some other company would pull ahead, leaving Apple so far behind they'd never catch up again.
I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
Absolutely
i'll worry about it if and when it happens. i have wasted too much time, energy and resources worrying and catastrophizing about things i cannot control.
What the fuck can I do? Just be even more depressed about the state of the country
Not everyone has the luxury of uprooting their lives when a fascist comes.
Yeah so many in the thread are like “duh I just moved, easy”
Yeah ok easy for you
Wait till you hear about Latin America!
Wait till you hear about my beloved Argentina.
Yeah, few actually moved away when Biden was placed into power
LET'S BURN THIS MOTHER DOWN!
I’ll get the kerosene
If we make plans, and post them on the internet, people start throwing around words like "premeditated" and it just makes things harder.
I love this. "We have a plan but we can't tell you.". Peak uselessness.
Sounds like the impeachment proceedings going on right now. That’s Reeepubs for ya.
I’ll sigh, shake my head, and think, “That figures”. And then I’ll go to work, like every other day.
This but perhaps crippling depression as well.
This is the default answer
what else can we do in a country like this with the candidates and party system we have? it would be nice to have real elections and options.
Voting is important, I also like to think about other tangible ways to build power - like what is power? It's being able to eat, having a place to live, having healthcare, saying what I want, associating with who I want, deciding how I spend my time.
I think about how the Mondragon complex, probably the largest worker cooperative in the world, started in Franco's Spain, and turned one of the poorest regions into one of the wealthiest.
I'd like to think I would stay and work to gain more power for myself and my peers - I want to stay and join/start a worker cooperative. I want to see a massive ecosystem of worker owned enterprises, which will translate to tangible power. Getting organized means being better able to fight off the kind of oppression Trump promises.
Lose my last shred of faith in this country, mostly
Take a shot for every comment saying "Move to Canada" :)
Move to Canada
Move to Canada
Move to Canada
Move to Canada
RIP, Lemminary.
Move to Canada
Move to Canada
Move to Canada
Go easy dude, you're gonna kill him.
I thought that was the point?
Just giving him a head start
Move to Canada
As much of a joke as it is, that's a real option for me. Won't pull the trigger on day one, but you bet your ass I'll be ready to go at a moments notice.
There are currently only 8 or 9 "move to Canada" comments; you'll need more before the number of shots is sure to kill you.
Oh yeah because it's that easy to just pack up and move to a country that doesn't want you.
Statistically, most people who pop off about moving to Canada won't have an easy time of it, but the two countries do share one of the world's longest land borders and have countless economic and cultural ties. There are undoubtedly thousands of people in the US who have citizenship or eligibility for work permits, along with some financial means.
I will have no issue imegrating, I have "an in" as well as a place to live already.
The border is only a 20 minute drive anyway.
The "doesn't want me" statement seems like your personal opinion, not objective reality.
Yah, if you have any skills and are financially stable, Canada is super down. They love people who contribute to society.
Or, ya know, you married one of em.
Exactly. I would've left this country years ago if it was that simple. I can't afford to vacation in Canada, let alone move there, and I live in a northern state.
It's completely understandable! I wouldn't want to be in the US either if I were American and Canada seem pretty chill in comparison.
Watch Democrats blame people they were actively hostile towards for not enthusiastically waiting for hours in the cold to vote for them.
Then watch the world's longest-running uninterrupted democracy with the world's largest military and the world's largest nuclear arsenal become a fascist dictatorship. Maybe I'll die quickly and have a chance to be envied.
Fix your messaging, Dems. Pretend he's a progressive and oppose him.
ackchtually russia has the most nukes
Honestly, just point to his examples of government overreach! Heck if Dems really wanted to hurt him, do some overreach that they want to do anyway and make sure that they thank the man, heck say without him this would be impossible and that if we don't take advantage of it someone else will!
Just go hard on red flag laws, just use those bad boys up on all of their opponents, and say "Trump was awful for a lot of things, but thank god he got some of the strongest anti gun laws on the books in decades, without him, we couldn't have gone after this dangerous far right militia, he really made this inevitable."
Democrats don't "go hard" on anything.
The same plan I have every election, TRY TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD.
To prove our mousey worth
and overthrow the Earth.
Before the night is done,
our plan will be unfurled.
By the dawning of the sun,
we’ll take over the world.
We playing Clue?! I'll be Prof. Plum!
I'm Colonel Mustard!
I want to be Tim Curry!
A typical Fallout loot inventory
How does one off themself with a candlestick
I already moved. It's not just Trump that's the problem, and even if he loses in 2024, or does in office, the issues still will persist. America needs to figure out how to make the judicial system work properly and norms need to be codified. Vast swaths of the population need to change their culture of "us vs them".
I won't be going back, the way things work with Republicans, you can't just move to a blue state, you have to move out of the country.
Where'd you land, out of curiosity?
A quick
doxxingsearch of OP's comment history suggests New Zealand❤️
Thank you for allowing me to delegate my stalking
No problem, Eric
Great solution
Usually I'd grab my bucket of popcorn and watch another 4 years of the shitshow that is US politics.
Unfortunately, this time the same kind of shitshow is happening across the pond in quite a few countries (not just the usual eastern ex-soviet states), including my country. Populist morons fueled by the Trump, Bolsonaro, Le pen, Orbán cookbook.
People are eating this up on social networks and voting for them. I feel it's going to get real nasty.
Yeah! What's so delightful about things is how the U.S. tends to kind of set the climate for the politics in the west. The nazi party here in Sweden wasn't doing bad per se, but after Trump's victory they skyrocketed! They became the second biggest party last election, beating out the milquetoast bourgeoisie for the first time ever.
Believe Italy has the same issue currently. Lovely stuff.
Mind you I'm not blaming the U.S., it's just that big headlines over there tends to colour ours too.
It's just a little bit of History repeating
Not just western countries, either. You even see countries like China and Russia devolving too, collecting power, raising to the poverty index to make it look like russians aren't starving, making term limits virtually indefinite, jailing opponents.
Only thing is that they've got a head start on making bad decisions, China since 2012, Russia since the 00s.
Voting.
Local. State. Federal. Like I always have. I also moved out of a "shithole" state in the words of our treasonous former president.
With China having a severe gender imbalance and a massive generation (age) imbalance, it's going to cause all sorts of problems for them soon. Big, big fucking problems. And Russia just had all their young men flee, die stupidly, or decide Russia might not be the best place after they've released shittons of violent offenders, lol. Russia's future looks dim at best. Iran isn't looking too healthy either.
So the bottom line is this: no matter where you go, you aren't outrunning a shift to a multipolar world, especially one where resources like fresh water and food will be getting more scarce as climate change fucks the world and countries get more desperate, particularly authoritarian ones that are losing a tenuous grip on their people. That shit always causes wars, because humans are too fucking stupid to prioritize science in any other context.
Countries with democracy and immigration and the means to defend themselves and their friends are your best bet. Our fate and your own fate are intrinsically linked because of that.
Set up monthly donations to the ACLU and Planned Parenthood, volunteer as a PP escort, open up my (Illinois) home to women and families who need to travel for reproductive healthcare.
This isn't off the top of my head, my spouse and I discussed it years ago, before the previous election.
Hehehe PP escort.
I imagine a number of famous people will talk about how they're moving to Canada, and don't.
Same as I've been doing since he won last time. Stay in my more liberal home state, extend understanding to friends and relatives who live in conservative states, extend invitations to the few who might need to move to keep themselves safe. Keep donating and volunteering with the organizations I've been supporting.
I have a friend who is thinking about seeking asylum in the US. I have encouraged her to weigh her other options; there are other countries where she has friends and family that might be more welcoming to her. If Trump gets elected, I'm not sure she'll even have a viable path to the US.
With that group of asshats it all depends on one important criteria for your friends acceptance:
The same thing I do after every election, cringe for another four years.
If Trump wins, he's not stepping down after 4 years. He (and his kind) are staying in power for good.
Sure. I'll believe it when I see it. Please can you try being more dramatic next time?
How'd that work for him last time?
Surprisingly well, given that his incompetent failed coup landed him fuck-all for punishment.
He's literally on trial for a coup that failed and thats surprisingly well? What went well in your opinion the coup that didn't work, or the trial(s) that are ongoing?
A properly-functioning society would've executed Trump for treason by now. Hell, even the fucked-up Weimar Republic had managed to try, convict, and imprison Hitler by the time three years had gone by since the Beer Hall Putsch.
Meanwhile, Trump hasn't even so much as seen the inside of a jail cell yet, so things are going extraordinarily well for him.
Im not going to defend the court draging their ass but its a hell of a lot easier to try a dead man over one who won't shut up. Hes also in the same situation as his little insurgent fans, those cases took and are taking quite a long time too, I still wouldn't call that better than expected. If he doesn't see the inside of a cell thats better than expected but by all meausre of lawyers commenting on his cases, 'better than expected' is not a take I'm hearing.
When we look at other countries that have had successful coups overturn their governments, the most common indicator among them is a previous unsuccessful coup plot.
Fortunate enough to also have EU citizenship, so I've already made arrangements to leave the country in that case. Will keep voting from overseas, though.
continue being annoyed by the level of corruption and incompetence of the US ruling class while existing in a visibly collapsing empire.
Its a time honored american tradition to shoot someone wearing red clothing thats trying to tell everyone what to do
Not Santa!
Idk I hear they have alters to him being put up in government buildings
HAIL SANTA!
Probably get sent to a concentration camp. Dunno if California will secede from the union to preserve human rights, if it comes between secession or letting the DHS collect all our immigrants and non-trad women.
Nothing I can do. Just do my best to finish out at college (assuming financial aid is still a thing) and move out of the country ASAP.
Wish I could say that I'd move to another country, but realistically I can't afford that. I'd guess I'd live life as normal but I'd always be paranoid at the increased risk of violence against trans people.
blaming the president for the actions of random people definitely makes sense to me
Our elected leaders have an effect on how people act, violence increased during his last term.
unbiased proof? I don't see how people will just magically decide their aggression level based on the arbitrarily chosen political figurehead in power
Here is the hate crime incident count as reported from the FBI data explorer website. As you can see the count had been falling after 2001 up until 2016 where it then starts rising again.
and it's in the tens of thousands now that Joe is in office, do you want to explain that, or will you decide to pin the blame on the politician of the day to be a scapegoat? If you haven't realized, the "hate crimes" aren't being committed by just people who you politically disagree with, and saying they are is just pushing the blame onto others
I mean it's pretty obvious things haven't recovered from Trumps term. 2 months after joe won the election was jan 6th, but it wasn't joe supporters doing that. If you look at the data graphed it has hints of possibly leveling off and slowing its huge growth. We can't really say for sure as the FBI data wasn't available past 2022. I am sorry you feel people are personally attacking you when they call out conservative terrorism, but it's real issue and both sides are not the same in this respect. This isn't team sports, this shit has real world effects. I doubt I can get through to you though so I will just end it here, have a nice day.
I would like to make you aware of the fact that it's been proven most of the people in the Jan. 6 insurrection were government employees. I'm sorry simply having a discussion with you makes you feel like you have to defend yourself, but many of your sources and statements are either false or misleading, and clearly it would be a waste of my time conversing with someone that absorbed in their point of view. Good day!
Damn, Biden shot it through the roof. Guy is very dangerous. Get him out of there
Spoken like someone who has never been targeted based on the political climate, and hasn't cared for anyone who has.
Been targeted since the day the current fascist in chief got into power
No, you haven't.
Yes I have
You have not been targeted if you were not also targeted under Trump. You are not a victim.
Yes, I'm the victim of fascism
yeah you know nothing about me or what I have to do in day to day life to be accepted in society by peers and colleagues, nice assumption though
Be a constant reminder to my neighbors to avoid authoritarianism. Continue to push for self and local community reliance. Keep pushing my local governments and organizations to remain or become more inclusive.
Something new though? Maybe support an inclusive civics focused militia near me, if for no other reason so that marginalized people can feel like they have a community that will really fight for them or at least help them defend themselves if things really get that bad.
Donations to the ACLU. They seem like the best bet for the hardest fight of preserving the rights of immigrants. Among all the other things, they have to defend against as well.
Being an immigrant I'll likely have my plans made for me.
Buy a gun, I guess?
Continue living in not America. Continue, as an overseas voter, to vote for things I believe in. Do everything I can to get ranked choice to be a thing everywhere and otherwise eliminate the firat-past-the-post bullshit that exists today
Would you do this part regardless of who wins?
Yes. The first-past-the-post and weird two-party thing going on in the US is awful and needs to be gone. There are potentially other solutions, but ranked-choice voting seems to be a good start. There are whole rabbitholes about the electoral college, proportional representation, and other things to get into, but my coffee hasn't kicked in yet this morning.
Send him Big Macs every single day and wait for him to have a heart attack.
I'm a queer immigrant so flee. I'm not sticking around for whatever comes after that unless we somehow get a significant majority in Congress
I don't blame you. Start your plan early so you don't have any doors shut on you.
Start doing whatever I can to keep your conservatism out of canada
Bro, I got bad news for you, coming straight from Alberta...
As a Minnesotan... You guys got any room for another province? We've got this Minnesota nice thing, hot dish, and the mayo clinic.
Don't listen to them Canada, it's just a casserole with a disarming accent. Absorb Washington instead, we've got chicken teriyaki and won't talk your ear off.
My boyfriend is Swiss, and there's been a loose open conversation over where we'd want to end up settling long-term. A second Trump term would definitely add several points in the Switzerland column.
Keep working, drinking, and sleeping. Not much else to do no matter who wins.
Make sure I have enough meds and reach out to friends to make sure they're safe and are able to get their HRT.
Underground railroad for repressed minorities to escape.
Win or lose we're buying guns.
Do so now before prices spike. Keep in mind, there is a high learning curve with firearms. Even the simple safety rules require practice to make them unbreakable habits.
There are 4 safety rules that if you follow you will never have an issue. If you can't follow these 4 simple rules, maybe rethink having a firearm.
Treat every firearm as if it is loaded. ...
Always point the muzzle in a safe direction. ...
Be certain of your target and what's beyond it. ...
Keep your finger outside the trigger guard until ready to shoot.
I'll add this, as simple as those rules are, they require practice. #1 is a great example. You want your actions to be habits, unbreakable.
Couple more rules at my camp when other people are around.
It's a bit of a PITA playing range safety officer. I mostly like shooting alone. :)
How does it take practice to treat something with respect? All 4 of the rules I mentioned are time tested and industry standard. I was an NRA instructor for a number of years. There's a reason these 4 rules are drilled into everyone's head. Again, if you can't read, understand, and follow those 4 incredibly simple things, you're not mature enough, responsible enough, or ready to have a firearm. It's quite simple.
To make them habits? Sounds like we agree. Talking about the rules is one thing. People practicing those rules under supervision is where we get results.
As an instructor, I know damn well you had to correct people from time to time. I've done it. That means our students were practicing, getting better.
I can teach my 8 and 10-yo kids the rules, get them to regurgitate them to me. But until we get on the range, I know one of 'em is going to try to flag me. Again, practice.
LOL, that's why I don't go to a range anymore. Mine was private, only $150/yr., and no one acted foolish. But still, I want to relax and not have my head on a swivel.
Don't forget ammo, training, and proper storage
I would be surprised if he wins. It really feels like his time has passed. But if he does I will use resistbot to its fullest capacity.
I don’t think there will be a presidency after him if he does though. I think people generally underestimate the violence it will bring.
Not to mention, they are very used to making poor decisions (see: invasions of Afghanistan & Iraq) and also not fighting back when their elections are stolen or interfered with. (See: Brooks Brother Riot and Trump election)
Good luck dummies!
Youre right about the violence if he does, but I think its much more likely than anyone wants to admit. I'll be extremely and pleasently surprised if he doesnt win with the way the wind is blowing
TIL about resistbot
Same, link for anyone interested
Lettters to reps are valuable, in the "we got ten for and a hundred against" sense, but I would love to have more tangible ways to make a difference.
I wouldn't be surprised. He doesn't exactly have the strongest opponent. I like to look at prediction markets to get an idea of what the odds are, and it looks like the gamblers currently think there's only a 52% chance of a Democrat winning the presidency. But, it's really hard to tell what will happen right now. Trump, Biden, or both could die before the election. We may begin a recession. OPEC is cutting oil production, with some people hypothesizing it is to influence the U.S. election. Russia and other countries will likely ramp up disinformation like we've never seen before, powered by the new AI bots and deepfake technology.
Honestly I have no idea. I live in the midwest and I am rather poor, so I imagine I will just start hording canned food and glare at people through the curtains like usual
Hurry and buy a new graphics card before the prices go crazy again.
Underrated answer. Feels like we see a lot of price fixing under that guy's watch.
Edit: I don't mean to minimize the damage that guy does. But I think there's value in remember that he'snobody's allly.
Don't forget to stock up on masks and toilet paper while you're at it.
I'm working to set up connections to folks in Canada that will be willing to relocate LGBTQ folks across the border.
Maybe be able to finally afford a house with all these people planning to leave the country. Other then that hunker down and deal with shit as it comes like always.
Just keep going about my daily life. The result of the election is not going to change where I live or where I work. The Federal Government doesn't have much of an impact on my day to day life, beyond federal laws and regulatory agencies. I don't see those changing in an (immediately) catastrophic way. Most of my day to day life is determined by my state and town government.
I’m gonna pack all my bags and change nothing about my life.
I've been visiting English speaking countries and kind of scouting where might be a good option if America had a serious issue. Canada would be my first choice because of proximity and shared values. New Zealand #2, then probably UK or Ireland.
I'm a cybersecurity professional with a lot of experience and I hope that would be welcomed in most countries but idk. I don't want to move, and would stick around for a bit to see initially how things go but if it kicks right back to 2020's level of insanity I'm 100% out.
We all understand he can in no way actually be allowed to retake that office again, correct? I don't give one flying fuck if he wins, or not. He cannot under any circumstances be allowed.
Live in denial while our country crumbles around us.
I'm praying for a convenient lightning bolt, or the human equivalent, to take him out. Honestly, a massive heart attack would do.
Well since I've been very vocally liberal and anti-Trump over the past 8 years or so, I suspect I'll end up dying in a labor camp.
I don't have the means to get out of the county beforehand or I'd already be out, and I think there's effectively no country that's going to be willing to take political refugees from the United States afterwords, so I'm pretty well fucked.
If you honestly think the US under Trump is going to put liberals in labor camps despite watching his whole first term flounder on anything that wasn't already galvinized by the GOPs platform I think you need to watch less sensationalized news.
He and the GOP have been shouting their intention to go full dictatorship for months now.
It's not sensationalized if its from the horse's mouth.
No they haven't liar
and how many political promises come true? come on. use what's left of your brain, huh?
Roe v Wade is gone & Abortion Laws are in full swing.
Net Neutrality was killed.
Trump made an attempt at building the border fence, which he claims was because the wall was more of a security issue than a fence they could 'look' through.
Trump attempted a Coup.
Trump is not your wishy-washy, wealth-hording politician of yore. He is a power-grabbing fascist with literally no filter. He tries to keep quiet, but he'll say the quiet parts out loud.
If he had managed to maintain his office, he was basically inches away from gutting public education.
And this was what he was doing to be 'reserved'. He told his audience to 'wait' until he 'won' reelection at the end of 2020 in regards to 'dealing with fauci'. Which implies there are other things he was waiting to do until he had secured his final term.
The only reason his insanity didn't happen all at once, was because of the initial whiplash between the old mask-on GOP and the new mask-off GOP. They lost out in the latter half of his presidency when the democrats took back the house.
if Trump was certain he could have instated his dictatorship in his first term, he would have done it. The new GOP is not like the 90s GOP. There are certainly those who feign ignorance and dissidence, but when push comes to shove, they tow the line.
Why would so many states have abortion laws ready to go? Why would so many states have complied in the attempt from Trump to steal the election?
If you think the GOP is bluffing, you are not paying attention.
They are absolutely bluffing and if you truly think there's going to be some 'dictatorship', you're fucking stupid. Our presidents already use their dictatorship power in Executive Orders, but no one seems to bat an eye at those, esp when it's "Your Guy" that signed the most ever in his first 90 or so days in office.
My favorite thing about this is somehow Biden has little power as president to materially change things without congress, even when he had a slim majority, but Trumps somehow single handedly gonna put democrats in camps. Its sensational bs thats never going to happen but you can use it to pretend you're being victimized for being a liberal, you're not.
I think you're discrediting that there's a decent chance that Trump is at least going to try to turn the US into a dictatorship. I'm hoping any attempt will fail, but there's been weirder successes throughout history
And I think people who claim Trump is going to put Americans in camps do nothing but polarize the political landscape more than it already is. If you sincerely believe Trump would have the ability to line up political dissedents up in mass and send them to camps, you've reached a level of delusion that is unhealthy. Theres no evidence Republicans are going to gain nearly enough seats for a supermajority, so please explain to me how Trump sends democrats to camps. It's a sensational divisive claim that does nothing but worsen an already shit electoral climate. Its the same level of crazy as claiming Bidens going to take away your guns. Even if thats what he said he wanted, he lacks any way to do so.
The only people actually goin to camps are immigrants and last I checked those are still open and functioning.
My concerns are generally not Trump as a person, but rather that his handlers are more organized and prepared. As an individual I think DeSantis is much more concerning, as far as actually implemented policy that is in effect and damaging today, and he's also going to be around for a long time.
I don't think liberals are going to labor camps any time soon, but life could be much more difficult for many marginalized groups as conservatives seek out the new boogyman now that abortion doesn't work as well.
Try not to slip on all that piss you're constantly wetting yourself with
don't worry too much buddy, the worst that can happen is your political view gets relentlessly strawmanned, treated as an attack on freedom, and most of the internet will find it acceptable to openly mock, ridicule, and threaten you for your beliefs and overexaggerate the candidate most closely associated with your point of view (whether true or not) as an unstable hateful fascist dictator, as well as adopting the most dramatic persecution complex possible, whining that their election will result in your shunning and death.
Oh wait...
I had been scrolling through this thread, wondering when I was going to find the dumbest possible post, and I'm thankful that I can stop reading now that I've found it.
I'm glad you can sleep a happy narcissist tonight
I will legit try to find countries with constitutions and parliaments that I could relocate to to live and work. The American constitutional Republic will be over if Trump becomes President again.
He'll certainly start his retribution with the big fish of anti Trump people and organizations, but it won't take long for it to "trickle down" to everyday people as well.
I'm lucky enough that it's feasible for me to find work in my field outside the US. Others aren't so lucky.
Ireland's pretty decent if it comes to it. Culturally reasonably similar, English speaking and most importantly, not England.
Only messing, neighbours ;)
Continue on as a wage slave hoping to get like a couple weeks vacation eventually.
some of us are not allowed to vote so doing the same thing as the last election
hope people one day quit voting for one of the demopublicans and choose some third party
as an american dissident unable to vote it feels like trapped in a country that does not want us deciding things or having a voice of any kind just here to be a disposable warm body
yes it is like that rick and morty episode with the body theme park you know things are dying and rotting and falling apart around you but that is the extent of your powers unless someone on the outside intervenes
Why are you not allowed to vote?
Felony record probably
Being a sexy mofo should not be a crime, but here we are...
username checks out
If it happens and I'm still in this hell hole probably just die.
But at the same time, it also will be a huge change. You'll be reading about things happening in another country.
A country only 2-3 hours away, which is not far enough...
Canada has oil, so either they will join the fascists or be subjugated by them.
In this case I am inclined to think it's a good thing, being able to move to another country, that's only 2 - 3 hours away. Even if it's technically the same thing, someone moving from Miami to the same city, would culturally feel like moving to another part of the world.
Same here. No healthcare, gun control, college, homes. For being the supposed “Best country on Earth “ it sure does suck ass.
Luckily I'm already out of the country but I don't think will go well if that happens.
Every now and then I have to remind myself that America was founded by religious nutjobs and colonized by industrialists.
Depends on what he does. Since I'm in the least likely demographic to be targeted (hmm, unless they start going through political groups I've been a member of), probably the same as I'm doing now. If it looks like there will be a civil war, I'd probably try to leave the country, but I guess that'd be too late, and I think a civil war is unlikely. I don't think many people would be willing to give their lives for... the Democratic party? I think the U.S. will become more like Russia (fake elections in red states [ensuring the Republican party the presidency and congress forever], more brutal police oppression, erosion of rights, opposition leaders falling out of windows, and encouragement of vigilante "justice" against whoever the "enemy" is at the time). I think protests and riots would be the most people would do, and they'd likely be met with increasingly deadly force.
Since covid, I make sure I keep a few months of non-perishables and water on hand in case of temporary supply chain disruptions, and I have plenty of wood to heat or cook with if needed. If there is a severe economic downturn (which is likely to happen in the unstable environment Trump would provide), and I couldn't find another well-paying job, I'd probably lose my home for not being able to pay my mortgage though.
Organize more and harder.
I plan to leave the country anyway. Shit’s getting too weird in the US.
Where do you plan to go and how do you plan to get a visa?
I live in a very conservative place in the south where even the queer people are here pretty conservative hopefully he doesn't win... Didn't think I needed to spell it out until I remembered the people I live around so yeah I guess it makes sense 🥲
Part of me thinks we get what we deserve.
Except it's not we. The majority's vote is overruled by the electoral college.
Same as if Biden wins in 2024.
Or, assuming that one of them has a heart attack or something before then, Nikki Haley or Kamala Harris or whoever.
Just die I guess
Lisbon, though we have some other ideas. We went through the process of research and consideration a few years ago and were seriously going to move. We didn't and are glad for that, and glad to have gone through that process in case we decide to leave.
Im not american but i would jump off a cliff if that happens
The same shit I did today
I’ve been practicing my French for a reason. Not good enough to make a move to France yet but Canada or UK/Ireland with regular trips to France to work on it might be in the books.
It won’t be immediate, I’ll wait to see what happens but if the fascist shit keeps up I’m dipping.
Good luck finding housing in Canada, bud.
As someone who keeps up on the news a lot, I gather it's about as bad care as it is in the US.
You do know that you're probably studying Parisian french, and the Quebeckers don't speak that? They speak a dialect based on french from 400 years ago, that honestly sounds like a drunk German speaking french as a second language.
Yea buts it’s closer than English, the Canadian move would be temporary anyway in my hopes. They’re starting to trend towards the same problems America is facing
Continue to live my life. The president has much less to do with the daily lives of Americans than the media would lead you to believe. They represent only one of the three branches of government.
"The Chancellor has much less to do with the daily lives of Germans than the media would lead you to believe." -- Folks who died in concentration camps, probably
Three branches of government? I'm sure the unilateral executive theory won't have any problems here and "checks and balances" will happen. /s
To leave the country
Build a wall around Detroit and put up a sign "No Trumps allowed"
Gotta be careful with that approach though, cause they'd still be allowed just one Trump.
They let in Trump Glumplich.
"Uh-hyuck."
As a Canadian I'm not sure what I would do for the next election if it is Trump vs Biden. I can't support someone who keeps supporting Israel after their actions in the last couple of months. But Trump literally said he will jail journalist and protesters and wants to invade mexico. I also feel like Trump would support Israel too .
You think that Biden was forced into this? Did somebody put a gun to his head? Do you honestly believe that Bernie Sanders would've said the same things if he were president?
Well, it's very easy for you to make a claim like that, because it's impossible for me to disprove it, but I find it implausible. For one thing, Trump did a lot of things that people thought were impossible for a president to do.
Again, nobody held a gun to Biden's head.
Republicans have been vocal in support of Israel. I mean Lindsey Graham, a major trump backer, said Israel should completely level Gaza. People criticizing Biden and acting like Republicans would not be even worse regarding Palestine are not grounded in reality.
He did support Israel and would again, honestly this isn't something that any canidate likely to win would change.
Yay America.... 🙃
Do you like, not understand how party politics work?
I understand that both parties suck.
As a Canadian, you should maybe think about how bad it could get for Canada if Trump is elected.
I really don't want Trump as president again . He will probably never leave office and declare any loosing elections rigged . But Biden also sucks .
deleted by creator
I'm voting for Jill Stein or Cornel West. Both are much better choices than Trump or Biden.
Avoid news outlets
I already left the US with no plans on living there again if I can make it work. So nothing would change with my life plans.
I'd love to leave, but it seems like citizenship elsewhere is hard. Where did you end up going?
Canada.
Moved to buttfuck nowhere montana, on purpose, because Canada is like 45 minutes out. Could probably sneak in, in an emergency. Probably.
First, read the comments while thinking most are ignorant of the consequences.
Consider renouncing my US citizenship? I've already left.
It sounds like you're gradually adjusting.
Long ways to go yet
It is - and I haven't even looked into it. Things will have to get seriously bad before I go that hard.
I am leaving and trying to convince as many of my sane family members to do the same. I dont want to be here for the inevitable violence.
He won't win. By honest means anyway. If we rollover and let him cheat his way into power we deserve what we get.
Phew, I thought I was actually going to have to go out and vote for a second there!
How are you going to stop them from cheating?
By making them double pinkie promise not to cheat.
Wouldn't that depend upon how they're going to cheat?
I think ill sit at the foot of the stairs.
General strike, then the woodchippers if still need
Be glad I'm not at the top of their list, and try to help my friends that are. Can't do much to sway the scared of nothing millions that will vote for him. So I'm looking for overseas jobs that pay relo, and I if I don't make it out, hunker down and hope there is a country left to salvage at the end.
Nothing in particular. I am already planning for a Christian Nationalism state. Might as well ask me if I am already leaving a building because of a smoking detector going off if I would do something different if a second smoke detector went off.
I already know where I’ll try to emigrate. I chose a new preferred country after seeing how shitty large swaths of my fellow Americans behaved in 2020. Absolute shitheads.
Hold my nose for 4 years and power through, same as last time. I'm in a blue state, we're fine.
These responses should be entertaining. /teasip
Continually live life just like the last time he was in office. It's the same as when anybody else has taken office. Opposition says it's going to be the worst ever but in the grand scheme nothing changes.
Nothing, same as the first time. He couldn't do what he wants anyway, the stuff he can do can get reversed just as easily. All the other stuff is just noise.
Celebrate
Continue living my life as if federal shenanigans mostly don’t affect daily life, because they don’t.
Since I don't care who wins, I'll do what I've done every day after an election: get up, go to work, come home, play with the kids, eat some dinner, maybe shag the wife.
Not an american, but I guess GTFO would be my answer if I were.
I'm not amercain and don't live in america but If i were to guess what would happen most of the people here would winge about it on social media for a few days after post election then contuine to live there lives till the next election where they'll vote for the stinky smelly and otherwise smelling of bo red turd or yellow piss stained blue turd rince and repeat no one political party is better than the other there both as equally as bad as the other
The GOP are idiotic if they think he even has a chance of winning. He lost last time and I only know of republucans who said they would never vote for him in another election. I don't know of a single person that didn't vote for him before that would now.
The vote margin in swing states in each of the past few presidential elections has been razor thin. It only takes a few thousand people in each swing state staying home to swing the election his way.
Centrist voters in the US are also quite prone to "fuck you" votes against the president's party when they aren't happy about economic conditions, and lots of Americans are feeling a cost of living pinch right now.
In October polling, 78% of Americans said the country was headed in the wrong direction.
It's really not far from possible that he-who-shall-not-be-named gets in again. He has a hardened base that has been drinking the Kool-aid of his stolen election rhetoric, up against a disillusioned and scattered Democratic coalition that has been losing steam among demographics like African Americans and Latinos.
He doesn't need to win new voters. He just needs Biden to lose a few.
For sure! The CoL thing is a major issue! The fact that most of the money supply pumped into the market was under Trump's direction (pressuring the Fed, Tax Cuts, business stimulus, and a little bit the personal stimulus) and that Biden is the first president in decades to actually follow economist opinions on what to do about it (limit money supply, raise interest, expand supply of raw material sources, pressure investment in actual good creation, etc) means very little to others who can just say "Don't you wish things were the way they were 4 years ago".
I don't think it matters all that much if trump/republicans win or if Biden/democrats win.
I feel like I've seen enough elections in my life to know that the POTUS is largely just a human sock puppet for the peasants to fight over online and in the street.
No matter which corporate owned tool wins the gameplan stays the same.
Impoverish you. Obey the donors. Sanctions + bombs. Tax cuts. Turn their pockets inside out when it comes to anything poor/working class people need. I could go on but I think you get the point.
The slow suicidal summersault into ww3 shall continue. Buckle up.
Drink. At least it isnt Biden, but at what cost?
#MAGA