I fully believe there's a huge amount of money and effort in making a studio -- but it seems like killing off a known brand wholesale like this just should result in a new brand that is the successor.
'Friendship ended with Bioware, Now OrganicWare is my best friend' kind of energy. We were never there for EA's involvement. We wanted These People*.
*First link I found, you get the point, but it might not be accurate for the whole team.
Gaming is getting harder with economy and silicon prices -- but that means we can just take the stories we want to tell and do so without 4A graphics.
it's crazy that despite this happening a couple days ago, the official bioware website still says nothing about this closure. Like they didn't even bother updating the site to say "hey btw we are closed" The optimistic side of me hopes that it's because they want to try to go inde again and run on their own but.. probably not.
When they got sold to ea, this was the only possible outcome anyway. Not sure if they sold out or ea did some corporate bullshit to force them to it, but they should have stayed away from ea if they wanted to keep making games.
The founders and original lead developers - Ray Muzyka and Greg Zeschuk - created over a dozen games before they sold the company.
Idk what else you'd want. They did their thing and then they cashed out to live their lives doing other things.
Bioware wasn't even supposed to be a video game company. It was originally founded to pioneer medical technology and only pivoted when their side project - Shattered Steel - outperformed expectations.
Sometime people need to stop being mad because one participate Treats Train has finally ended it's run. Be glad for the games you got, not sad because it's over
After all, you've still got Larian and Paradox and Owlcat and a thousand other indie studios making equivalent games.
Mass Effect isn't the first game to use space cops and robot aliens fighting over the fate of the galaxy. The Expanse did Mass Effect's storyline much better.
That's before you consider how played out the Mass Effect IP already is. Just like Halo, they peaked at game 3. That was the apex of the story.
Mass Effect is a wonderfully constructed world; I disagree on you there.
I’d also argue ME3 is not the peak. The best gameplay, sure, but a more questionable campaign IMO.
You are not wrong about the story trajectory though. They wrote themselves into a corner with the Reaper arc, and that is done now. But I do think “Shepard-free, smaller story spinoffs” were the correct move, rather than trying to pick up a story that should be done (like Halo did).
No it's not. They can use the entire world they constructed, its history, and (for the players) all the nostalgia. And selectively bring back characters.
I mean, that immediately drew me into this trailer.
Halo is an entirely different beast. They could not let the MC/Cortana go like they are stuck to them with a chain, but side stories in that world would have been interesting too.
More like $12.99 for core functionality that should have been released with the game (cities skylines is the worst for this). I'm all for reasonable pricing to cover the costs of development, but chaining together a dozen expansions and making a $40 game cost an additional $160 is bonkers. Its deceptive pricing, and it shouldn't be excused just because you like small studios making better games. It would be better to release games when they are fully ready and have a roadmap of full cost available.
Though it does look like they've now offered a subscription service to essentially rent the expansions for $8 a month, at least that provides choices.
Bioware also had a large number of employees in Edmonton. Maga goons (Jared Kushner and Lourenco Goncalves) are just laying off Canadians to hurt the economy.
I keep hearing that EA isn’t responsible for this, because BioWare games have gone to shit recently. Does anyone honestly believe that EA’s takeover, corporate culture, and demands on the studio didn’t contribute to the drop in quality?
EA and other corpos’ death grip doesn’t start at the end when it all falls apart. The death grip is there from the moment you sell.
We should just go after all the money of the people who sell the studios. Everyone always forgets that for every game studio Equity Almighty destroys there's a former owner sitting on a fat pile of cash that a whole group of people worked together to build, 120% tax on all assets of the assholes who traded a cool company for a pile of cash from the most evil people in the world.
We used to hate the sellouts for being sellouts. Now they just aren't talked about, like selling out is inevitable and in many ways the whole point.
Agree with everything you have to say. We have become far too tolerant on bad behaving peers. Now they get called innovative and lots allude to be like them. It’s the new fame. Few people get rich in a conscientious way.
Yeah, because EA gave Bioware a chance to bounce back, in fact multiple chances. You could say EA killed the Bioware of old which the talent leaving the studio, but the new Bioware could've bounced back. They had everything they needed to succeed. A credible studio name that people trusted and a bunch of beloved IPs that people would give a chance. They even had EA giving them more than one shot to not fail (which is more than most EA studios get) and also plenty of time to get it right. All Bioware had to do was put out a good game and they simply couldn't.
So let me ask in reverse. Let's say Bioware was indepedent. What would Bioware have to fuck up for you to say its their fault for going under? Because to me they ticked all those boxes already. Had it been any other studio they'd already be dead and forgotten.
Persued 'live-service' games, using game engines that don't fit, constantly shifting direction of games in development, focusing on a generic streamlined cinematic experience then telling a good, character-driven story with impactful and controversial choices, use Denuvo, stop releasing modding tools, ...
If an independent studio does this stuff... Then they should look for better managers.
The first games that felt off to me where DA2 and ME3, but I played through them, they were still enjoyable. DA:I was bland and boring, so I dropped it, after that I didn't see a return to the studio that I remembered.
I do hope that was a deliberate jab at Bungie. Because that's exactly what Bungie did when they were independent and the reason they got bought out by Sony was because they were spiraling into their demise. Even now I think if Bungie goes under the blame lies with Bungie and not Sony. With that in mind I think it would be illogical to see two different studios go down the same path and then blame one studio but excuse the other studio.
Ah, they edited their comment as I was writing up mine. What they wrote before was exactly what Bungie did when they were independent. And if they did exactly the same things why would be assume EA killed Bioware but Bungie get them in their dire state on their own? Even with what the other person now changed the question stays the same. Why should we assume EA made them do those things instead of considering the possibility that they chose to do those things on their own? We have an example of a company making those same decisions all on their own and I think the relationship between EA and Bioware (especially when compared to some other studios like Visceral) EA did put some trust and autonomy into Bioware. I just don't see how it's inconceivable that Bioware could make those bad decisions on their own.
My point is that if Bioware did that when independent, they where to blame. But they weren't independent when they did that.
Your point is that Bungie did that, when independent... So? Are people not blaming Bungie for doing live-services? If they don't then they should! And if they do, then I don't see the inconsistency.
From my POV, no games of Bungie had any interest. I guess Halo found some appeal to some, but this whole Destiny stuff... Maybe it was successful because of the novelty at that time. But I had no interest it that...
Okay, so without being what would Bioware have to do for you to blame Bioware for being shut down?
Now I have trouble parsing your question.
Didn't I just answer that?
If BioWare would be independent, or maybe under a hypothetical 'good guy EA', and produced bad, bland, uninspired games, or dig themselves into one massive, feature-creep game, which eats all their money, but never releases, then I would blame them. So, if their management sucks. BioWare had enough money to find and hire good designers, writers, artists and programmers.
If they suddenly start creating niche games, without broad appeal, that would be fine to, in my book.
Trying desperately to appeal to a broad demographic, instead of playing to their strength, and their established fanbase, is what makes bland games.
Under EA what would Bioware have to do for you to say "yeah, Bioware is at fault here"? Because my argument is that EA gave Bioware all the chances to succeed and despite getting all the chances they still couldn't succeed.
And I never said EA is the good guy here. EA is not the good guy. But being an asshole company doesn't instantly mean you're to blame for everything.
EA kept pushing them to MMOs despite them being a single player RPG company. I definitely think they dropped the ball too, but had they been put on DA4 right after inquisition and kept it going to completion I don't think they'd've flopped like that
I think you might be using the wrong word here. EA never pushed Bioware to make MMOs. Bioware made one MMO, SWTOR, and that was a financial success. As far as I know no other Bioware game had been an MMO after EA bought them. Where Bioware struggled was with making live-service multiplayer games and there's some argument that the unrealistic revenue expectations from EA forced Bioware to go down that route but in the end it was Bioware who suggested, back in 2012, that Anthem would be a live-service style game. How Veilguard ended up going multiplayer I'm not familiar with, but even there Bioware could go back to the single player experience, which still flopped.
EA forced them to make a live service game that failed. Then they tried to make them make a live service Dragon Age game. They decided to change Veilguard back to single-player, but late enough in the development cycle that it impacted the final product.
Andromeda was a technical mess at launch, but the game itself was fine. It was the weakest in the series, but they tried new stuff with the spinoff and I appreciated the attempt.
The only game they made before that I truly disliked was Dragon Age II.
upvoted only to retract it for the da2 comment lol. Dragon Age 2 is a great game swamped by tight deadlines, but what's there is fun and it still has the feel of origin where the world feels dangerous. it is so much better than its successors, and honestly if it had the right budget I'd even say it could've been as good as origins.
The budget and timeline absolutely killed it. Reusing like 4 maps for everything in the whole game got old super fast. And I also didn't care for the change from the tactical combat of the first game at all.
you still have tactical mode tho and it works the same as in origins, I think the AI ruleset stuff you could set before is missing in 2 iirc, but when I played them back to back it didn't feel like I needed to relearn how stuff works.
I do think it helps playing da2 with all the included dlcs, it helps add variety to areas you visit.
EA installed managers of the company who had backgrounds in Major League Gaming and EA's mobile gaming division. THEN they pitched a live service game. Most of the remaining members of the old guard left within months of Anthem's announcement.
There's no clear date on when the Anthem pitch happened but it happened before EA appointed Bromberg as the CEO, which was in 2013. Anthem didn't get officially announced until 2017. Unless you meant the nameless teaser they put out in 2014.
If you want to continue arguing this you going to have to personally name who that old guard was because I very much doubt they left within months in 2014.
One person left, 2 years after personally pitching Anthem as a live-service game to EA. The same person returned a few years later and left again in 2020.
That means all BioWare games should become free now, because a closed studio can't get the money? /s
Of course EA will have no problem getting money on their behalf, all while slashing the developers. If you waited for a call to legitimately pirate BioWare games, this is it.
In these lists of great things to remember Bioware for, people keep not including MDK2. It told an amazing story of a mad scientist, his janitor and robot dog, repelling an alien invasion and saving Earth. Deserves to be mentioned alongside their othet awesome games.
You think it's popular enough that anyone knows what MDK2 even means? People after lazy and won't search that to find out. Maybe you should stop being lazy too and just woke out the actually name instead of this game you seem to think it's unforgettable will remain entirely entirely forgotten
Apparently I wasn't lazy enough to do some leg work to figure it out (I actually knew about this game and was able to identify it by the name but that's beyond the point.)
You're the reason why Netflix has to take into account people doom scrolling on their phones while they watch their media.
It probably took less time for me to search, upload and write this message than it took you to type up that rancid pile of shit.
I'd argue slightly before. EA purchased them about the same time Mass Effect came out, which means they didn't play a part in development. I would say Mass Effect was the beginning of the end for them. Yeah, it was great, but it was the game where they started dumbing things down and moving away from the CRPG into bland action games. Mass Effect was the start of the path towards Anthem and then trying to make Dragon Age into a multiplayer live-service thing, which ended up as Veilguard.
I said it was great. It was just the start of the path to failure. It wasn't immediately bad, but they were removing the things that made the games special.
Oddly enough, of their top 10 best selling games, Mass Effect was the lowest, and newer games were better selling. So sales figures say otherwise. Dumbing things down is bad for one audience, but good for another.
I wonder how much this is because of dumbing down, and how much it is because the market got larger. For example in the year 2002, The Sims was the highest selling game of all time, at ~6 million copies.
At the time, the perception of video games was still a hobby of sweaty nerds. Some years later the Wii launched, and it became really popular as a family console. It had some sports games, and I think it did a lot to get a foothold on a more general market. Games weren't just for sweaty nerds anymore. Although even then, a lot of people didn't play games.
Then at some point the marketing shifted. Games had broader stories, they tried for more mass-market appeal by selling cinematic experiences and whatnot (remember the awful QTE era of like the late-2000s early 2010s?)
At that point, I think gaming in general had broadened its appeal. A lot of people had consoles, PC hardware wasn't prohibitively expensive, etc.
I don't doubt that dumbing down games has had an effect, by making things simpler and flattening the learning curve you make it more accessible. That's a given. But I also think gaming becoming a more generally accessible and socially acceptable past time was a big contributor.
Once smart phones came along the mobile game market exploded, and I think that's still the biggest market segment, though it's moved on from its original simple puzzle games into bigger experiences, some that even translate decently well over to other mediums.
PS1 did a lot to legitimize gaming, probably more than Wii. Up to the SNES/Genesis generation, consoles in particular were perceived as kids' toys. With PS1, Sony and Psygnosis (who did a lot of legwork for Sony) advertised it to college-age folks, hiring The Designers Republic¹ to make the marketing materials for the console and the style of ‘Wipeout’; they put contemporary edm music in the game, made some edgy ads, and organized gaming rooms in fifty nightclubs in the UK alone. PS1 singlehandedly changed the audience of consoles away from just kids, for which Sony thanked Psygnosis by renaming them to SCE Studio Liverpool, making them develop just the ‘Wipeout’ and ‘Formula One’ series, and shutting them down altogether in 2012.
Now guess what people who were in college in 1995, were doing in early-mid 2000s. And note also that Nintendo never really switched away from targeting their games to kids.
¹ The Designers Republic did cover design for many IDM producers, which genre popped up in early-mid 1990s — folks like Autechre, LFO and Aphex Twin, and specifically the Warp label, likewise based in Sheffield. Their design was pretty much the ‘face of ambient techno’.
Yeah, but now we miss out on playing a rushed mass effect game and getting to complain about it not measuring up for a couple weeks. Now I have to find something new to do in August 2027
EA closing down studios they buy is the expected inevitable outcome
Anyone who lets EA acquire them deserves this. It's not even a secret, so fuck everyone at BioWare who sold their company to this. You can be sad, but you don't get to be surprised
Batteries Included – Purchased in 1987 and closed that same year.
Origin Systems – Purchased in 1992. Closed in 2004.
Bullfrog Productions – Purchased in 1995. Closed in 2001.
Maxis – Purchased in 1997. Closed in 2015. (Studio name still used by EA.)
Westwood Studios / EA Pacific – Purchased in 1998. Closed in 2003.
Kesmai – Purchased in 1999. Closed in 2001.
DreamWorks Interactive / Danger Close Games – Purchased in 2000. Closed in 2013.
Black Box Games – Purchased in 2002. Closed in 2013.
NuFX / EA Chicago – Purchased in 2004. Closed in 2007.
Hypnotix – Purchased and shut down in 2005. Team folded into EA Tiburon.
Mythic Entertainment – Purchased in 2006. Closed in 2014.
Phenomic Game Development – Purchased in 2006. Closed in 2013.
Headgate Studios / EA Salt Lake – Purchased in 2006. Closed in 2017.
Pandemic Studios – Purchased in 2007. Closed in 2009.
J2MSoft – Purchased in 2008 and folded into EA Korea.
Playfish – Purchased in 2009. Closed in 2013.
Chillingo – Purchased in 2010. Began shutting down in 2017. Fully closed in 2023.
Industrial Toys – Purchased in 2018. Closed in 2023.
BioWare – Purchased in 2007. Closed in 2026.
BioWare released 4 games since 2017, one of which was just a remaster/collection of the older Mass Effect titles. The other three games were Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, and Dragon Age Veilguard, all of which aren't exactly considered the studio's best work. These games did not sell well, obviously (and in some cases there are EA earning reports that confirm this), leading to studio closure. Honestly I am surprised this didn't happen sooner. The talent that actually made BioWares reputation probably havent been at that studio for a while.
The talent that actually made BioWares reputation probably havent been at that studio for a while.
Exactly. A few key figures left not long after the EA buyout. The rest trickled out over time. The Wikipedia article for Dragon Age Veilguard has an entire section dedicated to the revolving door of key staff leaving or being laid off over the course of its almost 10 year development.
It's far from everyone, but a few names from the old Bioware are currently working on this game set to release next year, which is billing itself as a sort of spiritual successor to Mass Effect:
This is why I still consider it fair to blame EA for downstream effects like this. There's no guarantee as independent studios that they would function better, but they at least would have original staff from star games. Like PopCap, and Reddit refuses to acknowledge EA had any part of the garbage PopCap releases now.
all of which aren’t exactly considered the studio’s best work
That's very mildly put
Andromeda, while a decent game today, was an absolute shitshow on release that was incredibly buggy. Not even thinking about the face animations that still haunt me to this day.
Anthem, while mechanically being genuinely great, severely lacked content and had seemingly no plan for the future.
And Veilguard was absolutely bankrupt from a gameplay standpoint. It was the most boring and most shallow game in the franchise, even more than inquisition and that was already fairly shallow. Not even mentioning the horrendous story and writing.
Probably doesn't help, and fuck their current owners, but EA has been notorious for buying and killing studios for more than 30 years.
The plot of Ultima 7 was full of references to it. The big bad was a reference to EA corrupting people to join his side, he tried to destroy magic in the world, his power was split in three artefacts shaped like EA's logo, and his two main agents in the world had E and A initials.
Funnily enough the game was basically finished when EA bought Origin Systems who made Ultima, so they just published it as-is.
Despite combat being better and more polished in Andromeda than it was in the trilogy Mass Effect, Andromeda felt like a fan-fiction adaptation of Mass Effect. It did not feel like it was made by the same people. I feel like tying that game into Mass Effect was a mistake.
This makes me sick to my stomach. I know the last dragon age and mass effect weren't good. But I was still hopeful despite knowing better. There at least was a chance the next ME would be good. I didn't get far in veilguard, and I'll probably never finish it, but I still want to fuck around in Thedas. Like others have said this isn't a surprise, but it hurts me to see this happen to what was once my favorite studio.
All of their recent releases were below average, I'm not surprised they closed down. Sad because this studio had created some really good games in the past.
I read them, I enjoyed them. I had a long hiatus from gaming from like 2013-2022 and got to "discover" a lot of great games releatively recently. Happy to have played all the mass effect games and dragon age games before SA PIF bought EA.
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Maybe the ex BioWare Devs can found a new studio. Maybe OrganicWare.
I fully believe there's a huge amount of money and effort in making a studio -- but it seems like killing off a known brand wholesale like this just should result in a new brand that is the successor.
'Friendship ended with Bioware, Now OrganicWare is my best friend' kind of energy. We were never there for EA's involvement. We wanted These People*.
*First link I found, you get the point, but it might not be accurate for the whole team.
Gaming is getting harder with economy and silicon prices -- but that means we can just take the stories we want to tell and do so without 4A graphics.
Sounds like the GTA world offbrand
it's crazy that despite this happening a couple days ago, the official bioware website still says nothing about this closure. Like they didn't even bother updating the site to say "hey btw we are closed" The optimistic side of me hopes that it's because they want to try to go inde again and run on their own but.. probably not.
When they got sold to ea, this was the only possible outcome anyway. Not sure if they sold out or ea did some corporate bullshit to force them to it, but they should have stayed away from ea if they wanted to keep making games.
The founders and original lead developers - Ray Muzyka and Greg Zeschuk - created over a dozen games before they sold the company.
Idk what else you'd want. They did their thing and then they cashed out to live their lives doing other things.
Bioware wasn't even supposed to be a video game company. It was originally founded to pioneer medical technology and only pivoted when their side project - Shattered Steel - outperformed expectations.
Sometime people need to stop being mad because one participate Treats Train has finally ended it's run. Be glad for the games you got, not sad because it's over
After all, you've still got Larian and Paradox and Owlcat and a thousand other indie studios making equivalent games.
The problem is that EA will still squat on the IP for the indefinite future, so nobody gets to do anything with it later.
I mean, the IP is pretty generic.
Mass Effect isn't the first game to use space cops and robot aliens fighting over the fate of the galaxy. The Expanse did Mass Effect's storyline much better.
That's before you consider how played out the Mass Effect IP already is. Just like Halo, they peaked at game 3. That was the apex of the story.
Mass Effect is a wonderfully constructed world; I disagree on you there.
I’d also argue ME3 is not the peak. The best gameplay, sure, but a more questionable campaign IMO.
You are not wrong about the story trajectory though. They wrote themselves into a corner with the Reaper arc, and that is done now. But I do think “Shepard-free, smaller story spinoffs” were the correct move, rather than trying to pick up a story that should be done (like Halo did).
Sure. But then it's just a generic scifi.
You don't need to own IP to make Mass Effect minus the title characters
No it's not. They can use the entire world they constructed, its history, and (for the players) all the nostalgia. And selectively bring back characters.
I mean, that immediately drew me into this trailer.
Halo is an entirely different beast. They could not let the MC/Cortana go like they are stuck to them with a chain, but side stories in that world would have been interesting too.
Or they can write up something new, just like the Mass Effect guys did.
Paradox just added a expansion for your comment. To unlock please pay $12.99...
$12.99 for... another 200 hours of content? Wtf! In this economy?!
More like $12.99 for core functionality that should have been released with the game (cities skylines is the worst for this). I'm all for reasonable pricing to cover the costs of development, but chaining together a dozen expansions and making a $40 game cost an additional $160 is bonkers. Its deceptive pricing, and it shouldn't be excused just because you like small studios making better games. It would be better to release games when they are fully ready and have a roadmap of full cost available.
Though it does look like they've now offered a subscription service to essentially rent the expansions for $8 a month, at least that provides choices.
They sold out to a private equity firm, who in turn sold them to EA.
Bioware also had a large number of employees in Edmonton. Maga goons (Jared Kushner and Lourenco Goncalves) are just laying off Canadians to hurt the economy.
I keep hearing that EA isn’t responsible for this, because BioWare games have gone to shit recently. Does anyone honestly believe that EA’s takeover, corporate culture, and demands on the studio didn’t contribute to the drop in quality?
EA and other corpos’ death grip doesn’t start at the end when it all falls apart. The death grip is there from the moment you sell.
BioWare itself was a corporation, and that's the problem. It ruined itself just as much as EA ruined it.
An outcome like this is inevitable when your goal is infinitely compounding returns on investments.
We should just go after all the money of the people who sell the studios. Everyone always forgets that for every game studio Equity Almighty destroys there's a former owner sitting on a fat pile of cash that a whole group of people worked together to build, 120% tax on all assets of the assholes who traded a cool company for a pile of cash from the most evil people in the world.
We used to hate the sellouts for being sellouts. Now they just aren't talked about, like selling out is inevitable and in many ways the whole point.
Agree with everything you have to say. We have become far too tolerant on bad behaving peers. Now they get called innovative and lots allude to be like them. It’s the new fame. Few people get rich in a conscientious way.
I don't know, I feel like for many it's the goal from the very beginning, even if they don't succeed in selling out
Sir. Sir, the beatings will continue until morale improves. We have been over this.
Yeah, because EA gave Bioware a chance to bounce back, in fact multiple chances. You could say EA killed the Bioware of old which the talent leaving the studio, but the new Bioware could've bounced back. They had everything they needed to succeed. A credible studio name that people trusted and a bunch of beloved IPs that people would give a chance. They even had EA giving them more than one shot to not fail (which is more than most EA studios get) and also plenty of time to get it right. All Bioware had to do was put out a good game and they simply couldn't.
So let me ask in reverse. Let's say Bioware was indepedent. What would Bioware have to fuck up for you to say its their fault for going under? Because to me they ticked all those boxes already. Had it been any other studio they'd already be dead and forgotten.
Persued 'live-service' games, using game engines that don't fit, constantly shifting direction of games in development, focusing on a generic streamlined cinematic experience then telling a good, character-driven story with impactful and controversial choices, use Denuvo, stop releasing modding tools, ...
If an independent studio does this stuff... Then they should look for better managers.
The first games that felt off to me where DA2 and ME3, but I played through them, they were still enjoyable. DA:I was bland and boring, so I dropped it, after that I didn't see a return to the studio that I remembered.
I do hope that was a deliberate jab at Bungie. Because that's exactly what Bungie did when they were independent and the reason they got bought out by Sony was because they were spiraling into their demise. Even now I think if Bungie goes under the blame lies with Bungie and not Sony. With that in mind I think it would be illogical to see two different studios go down the same path and then blame one studio but excuse the other studio.
I'm assuming it was a deliberate jab at how Bioware have been handled because that's exactly what they did
Ah, they edited their comment as I was writing up mine. What they wrote before was exactly what Bungie did when they were independent. And if they did exactly the same things why would be assume EA killed Bioware but Bungie get them in their dire state on their own? Even with what the other person now changed the question stays the same. Why should we assume EA made them do those things instead of considering the possibility that they chose to do those things on their own? We have an example of a company making those same decisions all on their own and I think the relationship between EA and Bioware (especially when compared to some other studios like Visceral) EA did put some trust and autonomy into Bioware. I just don't see how it's inconceivable that Bioware could make those bad decisions on their own.
I don't get your point...
My point is that if Bioware did that when independent, they where to blame. But they weren't independent when they did that.
Your point is that Bungie did that, when independent... So? Are people not blaming Bungie for doing live-services? If they don't then they should! And if they do, then I don't see the inconsistency.
From my POV, no games of Bungie had any interest. I guess Halo found some appeal to some, but this whole Destiny stuff... Maybe it was successful because of the novelty at that time. But I had no interest it that...
Okay, so without being what would Bioware have to do for you to blame Bioware for being shut down?
Now I have trouble parsing your question.
Didn't I just answer that?
If BioWare would be independent, or maybe under a hypothetical 'good guy EA', and produced bad, bland, uninspired games, or dig themselves into one massive, feature-creep game, which eats all their money, but never releases, then I would blame them. So, if their management sucks. BioWare had enough money to find and hire good designers, writers, artists and programmers. If they suddenly start creating niche games, without broad appeal, that would be fine to, in my book.
Trying desperately to appeal to a broad demographic, instead of playing to their strength, and their established fanbase, is what makes bland games.
Under EA what would Bioware have to do for you to say "yeah, Bioware is at fault here"? Because my argument is that EA gave Bioware all the chances to succeed and despite getting all the chances they still couldn't succeed.
And I never said EA is the good guy here. EA is not the good guy. But being an asshole company doesn't instantly mean you're to blame for everything.
EA kept pushing them to MMOs despite them being a single player RPG company. I definitely think they dropped the ball too, but had they been put on DA4 right after inquisition and kept it going to completion I don't think they'd've flopped like that
I think you might be using the wrong word here. EA never pushed Bioware to make MMOs. Bioware made one MMO, SWTOR, and that was a financial success. As far as I know no other Bioware game had been an MMO after EA bought them. Where Bioware struggled was with making live-service multiplayer games and there's some argument that the unrealistic revenue expectations from EA forced Bioware to go down that route but in the end it was Bioware who suggested, back in 2012, that Anthem would be a live-service style game. How Veilguard ended up going multiplayer I'm not familiar with, but even there Bioware could go back to the single player experience, which still flopped.
EA forced them to make a live service game that failed. Then they tried to make them make a live service Dragon Age game. They decided to change Veilguard back to single-player, but late enough in the development cycle that it impacted the final product.
Andromeda was a technical mess at launch, but the game itself was fine. It was the weakest in the series, but they tried new stuff with the spinoff and I appreciated the attempt.
The only game they made before that I truly disliked was Dragon Age II.
upvoted only to retract it for the da2 comment lol. Dragon Age 2 is a great game swamped by tight deadlines, but what's there is fun and it still has the feel of origin where the world feels dangerous. it is so much better than its successors, and honestly if it had the right budget I'd even say it could've been as good as origins.
The budget and timeline absolutely killed it. Reusing like 4 maps for everything in the whole game got old super fast. And I also didn't care for the change from the tactical combat of the first game at all.
you still have tactical mode tho and it works the same as in origins, I think the AI ruleset stuff you could set before is missing in 2 iirc, but when I played them back to back it didn't feel like I needed to relearn how stuff works.
I do think it helps playing da2 with all the included dlcs, it helps add variety to areas you visit.
EA didn't force them, Bioware pitched Anthem as a live-service style game from the get-go.
EA installed managers of the company who had backgrounds in Major League Gaming and EA's mobile gaming division. THEN they pitched a live service game. Most of the remaining members of the old guard left within months of Anthem's announcement.
There's no clear date on when the Anthem pitch happened but it happened before EA appointed Bromberg as the CEO, which was in 2013. Anthem didn't get officially announced until 2017. Unless you meant the nameless teaser they put out in 2014.
If you want to continue arguing this you going to have to personally name who that old guard was because I very much doubt they left within months in 2014.
Casey Hudson left in May 2014.
One person left, 2 years after personally pitching Anthem as a live-service game to EA. The same person returned a few years later and left again in 2020.
That means all BioWare games should become free now, because a closed studio can't get the money? /s
Of course EA will have no problem getting money on their behalf, all while slashing the developers. If you waited for a call to legitimately pirate BioWare games, this is it.
Check out OpenRA: Combined Arms lol
Niiiice
EA employees worked on BioWare games. I know because my brother is one of them.
He worked on Dragon Age, while being an EA employee.
So EA owns all the rights to collect money from their games for that reason and because EA owned BioWare
EA has form for turning buyouts into shit. Look at PopCap who produced joyous casual-but-fair games until EA sunk their claws into them.
In these lists of great things to remember Bioware for, people keep not including MDK2. It told an amazing story of a mad scientist, his janitor and robot dog, repelling an alien invasion and saving Earth. Deserves to be mentioned alongside their othet awesome games.
You think it's popular enough that anyone knows what MDK2 even means? People after lazy and won't search that to find out. Maybe you should stop being lazy too and just woke out the actually name instead of this game you seem to think it's unforgettable will remain entirely entirely forgotten
''woke out the actually name instead''
You're an idiot. Learn english if you're going to preach to people in this language. FYI the name of the game actually is ''MDK2''.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDK2
I knew the name you champion. MDK1 and 2 were my favorite games besides Army men 3DO
We found them! The person who had the 3DO!
Brother/Sister, you have no idea how much 3DO's Army men series was a part of my life.
I wish someone would remake Army men land sea and air, like a Company of Heroes clone.
I use to have 5 small crates filled with plastic soldiers. They were my life.
Dude, why so abrasive?
Lol it's the actual name of the game.
Apparently I wasn't lazy enough to do some leg work to figure it out (I actually knew about this game and was able to identify it by the name but that's beyond the point.)
You're the reason why Netflix has to take into account people doom scrolling on their phones while they watch their media.
It probably took less time for me to search, upload and write this message than it took you to type up that rancid pile of shit.
So for everyone concerned: shut the fuck up.
How about you tell us the ‘actual name’, sucka? Because anyone who was a gamer in 1997-2000 knows of the mystery behind that name.
My Dick Knuckle 2
Murder Death Kill.
https://youtu.be/CnbiUP18TFw
Internal trailer for ME 5
Eh. Bioware died a long time ago.
Alternate headline:
“The reanimated corpse of your loved one is now at peace.”
Right. Sucks for the people working there, but the BioWare we miss was already gone, so it doesn't hurt that much.
Yeah when EA purchased them.
ThatsTheJoke.jpg
I'd argue slightly before. EA purchased them about the same time Mass Effect came out, which means they didn't play a part in development. I would say Mass Effect was the beginning of the end for them. Yeah, it was great, but it was the game where they started dumbing things down and moving away from the CRPG into bland action games. Mass Effect was the start of the path towards Anthem and then trying to make Dragon Age into a multiplayer live-service thing, which ended up as Veilguard.
Mass Effect 1 & 2 were great though...
I said it was great. It was just the start of the path to failure. It wasn't immediately bad, but they were removing the things that made the games special.
Oddly enough, of their top 10 best selling games, Mass Effect was the lowest, and newer games were better selling. So sales figures say otherwise. Dumbing things down is bad for one audience, but good for another.
https://gamerant.com/highest-selling-games-developed-bioware-ranked-how-much-sold/
I wonder how much this is because of dumbing down, and how much it is because the market got larger. For example in the year 2002, The Sims was the highest selling game of all time, at ~6 million copies.
At the time, the perception of video games was still a hobby of sweaty nerds. Some years later the Wii launched, and it became really popular as a family console. It had some sports games, and I think it did a lot to get a foothold on a more general market. Games weren't just for sweaty nerds anymore. Although even then, a lot of people didn't play games.
Then at some point the marketing shifted. Games had broader stories, they tried for more mass-market appeal by selling cinematic experiences and whatnot (remember the awful QTE era of like the late-2000s early 2010s?)
At that point, I think gaming in general had broadened its appeal. A lot of people had consoles, PC hardware wasn't prohibitively expensive, etc.
I don't doubt that dumbing down games has had an effect, by making things simpler and flattening the learning curve you make it more accessible. That's a given. But I also think gaming becoming a more generally accessible and socially acceptable past time was a big contributor.
Once smart phones came along the mobile game market exploded, and I think that's still the biggest market segment, though it's moved on from its original simple puzzle games into bigger experiences, some that even translate decently well over to other mediums.
PS1 did a lot to legitimize gaming, probably more than Wii. Up to the SNES/Genesis generation, consoles in particular were perceived as kids' toys. With PS1, Sony and Psygnosis (who did a lot of legwork for Sony) advertised it to college-age folks, hiring The Designers Republic¹ to make the marketing materials for the console and the style of ‘Wipeout’; they put contemporary edm music in the game, made some edgy ads, and organized gaming rooms in fifty nightclubs in the UK alone. PS1 singlehandedly changed the audience of consoles away from just kids, for which Sony thanked Psygnosis by renaming them to SCE Studio Liverpool, making them develop just the ‘Wipeout’ and ‘Formula One’ series, and shutting them down altogether in 2012.
Now guess what people who were in college in 1995, were doing in early-mid 2000s. And note also that Nintendo never really switched away from targeting their games to kids.
¹ The Designers Republic did cover design for many IDM producers, which genre popped up in early-mid 1990s — folks like Autechre, LFO and Aphex Twin, and specifically the Warp label, likewise based in Sheffield. Their design was pretty much the ‘face of ambient techno’.
A very fair point.
Yeah, but now we miss out on playing a rushed mass effect game and getting to complain about it not measuring up for a couple weeks. Now I have to find something new to do in August 2027
It has been a long time since I bought an EA game, yeah. Bioware was their only developer that I cared for.
True, they have been on a trash slop run and this is the inevitable result.
people havnt forgiven them for destroying the CNC franchise, and they tried to money grab with CNC4, and tiberium alliance.
Such a tragedy. Black Isle and Bioware were such a great combo in the late 90's.
Just following the fate of Bethesda and Id: kiddos, your heros will die. So it goes.
CDPR hopefully will not make these same mistakes... or they already have.
Just to push back on this, this is long overdue.
EA closing down studios they buy is the expected inevitable outcome
Anyone who lets EA acquire them deserves this. It's not even a secret, so fuck everyone at BioWare who sold their company to this. You can be sad, but you don't get to be surprised
Batteries Included – Purchased in 1987 and closed that same year. Origin Systems – Purchased in 1992. Closed in 2004. Bullfrog Productions – Purchased in 1995. Closed in 2001. Maxis – Purchased in 1997. Closed in 2015. (Studio name still used by EA.) Westwood Studios / EA Pacific – Purchased in 1998. Closed in 2003. Kesmai – Purchased in 1999. Closed in 2001. DreamWorks Interactive / Danger Close Games – Purchased in 2000. Closed in 2013. Black Box Games – Purchased in 2002. Closed in 2013. NuFX / EA Chicago – Purchased in 2004. Closed in 2007. Hypnotix – Purchased and shut down in 2005. Team folded into EA Tiburon. Mythic Entertainment – Purchased in 2006. Closed in 2014. Phenomic Game Development – Purchased in 2006. Closed in 2013. Headgate Studios / EA Salt Lake – Purchased in 2006. Closed in 2017. Pandemic Studios – Purchased in 2007. Closed in 2009. J2MSoft – Purchased in 2008 and folded into EA Korea. Playfish – Purchased in 2009. Closed in 2013. Chillingo – Purchased in 2010. Began shutting down in 2017. Fully closed in 2023. Industrial Toys – Purchased in 2018. Closed in 2023. BioWare – Purchased in 2007. Closed in 2026.
Developers don't decide who acquires them.
That's why it is sad. You have a really good team and the money hungry management sells them out. That is sad.
Can’t spell death without ea
bioware was dead somewhere in between getting taken over by ea, long before this.
It's always the fucking suits.
The Morons in Japan are trying to blame online piracy. Makes me wanna swallow some nails..
EA is a pox on humanity now.
EA = Enshittify All.
I had to write a buad report on them long time back. EA is basically the Martin Shkreli of the gaming industry.
As is capitalism, especially the unregulated sort, where executives worst ideas run the show
I gotta be honest, this is not unexpected at all.
BioWare released 4 games since 2017, one of which was just a remaster/collection of the older Mass Effect titles. The other three games were Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, and Dragon Age Veilguard, all of which aren't exactly considered the studio's best work. These games did not sell well, obviously (and in some cases there are EA earning reports that confirm this), leading to studio closure. Honestly I am surprised this didn't happen sooner. The talent that actually made BioWares reputation probably havent been at that studio for a while.
Exactly. A few key figures left not long after the EA buyout. The rest trickled out over time. The Wikipedia article for Dragon Age Veilguard has an entire section dedicated to the revolving door of key staff leaving or being laid off over the course of its almost 10 year development.
It's far from everyone, but a few names from the old Bioware are currently working on this game set to release next year, which is billing itself as a sort of spiritual successor to Mass Effect:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exodus_(2027_video_game)
Edit: And there is also a spiritual successor to KotOR in development with involvement of a few other key names from old Bioware.
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_Fate_of_the_Old_Republic
This is why I still consider it fair to blame EA for downstream effects like this. There's no guarantee as independent studios that they would function better, but they at least would have original staff from star games. Like PopCap, and Reddit refuses to acknowledge EA had any part of the garbage PopCap releases now.
That's very mildly put
Andromeda, while a decent game today, was an absolute shitshow on release that was incredibly buggy. Not even thinking about the face animations that still haunt me to this day.
Anthem, while mechanically being genuinely great, severely lacked content and had seemingly no plan for the future.
And Veilguard was absolutely bankrupt from a gameplay standpoint. It was the most boring and most shallow game in the franchise, even more than inquisition and that was already fairly shallow. Not even mentioning the horrendous story and writing.
I'm a big fan of Bullfrog (own every game) and saw the writing on the wall when Bioware got bought.
Note too the shit stains that now own EA.
Electraudi Artsrabia strikes again.
Probably doesn't help, and fuck their current owners, but EA has been notorious for buying and killing studios for more than 30 years.
The plot of Ultima 7 was full of references to it. The big bad was a reference to EA corrupting people to join his side, he tried to destroy magic in the world, his power was split in three artefacts shaped like EA's logo, and his two main agents in the world had E and A initials.
Funnily enough the game was basically finished when EA bought Origin Systems who made Ultima, so they just published it as-is.
They hadn't released a game that made back its development cost in over a decade, they were a billion dollar money hole.
Origin? That decade happened under EA's banner, the company seemed rather healthy before that from what I could find.
And that doesn't change that EA was already being nicknamed "destroyer of worlds" by them back in 1992.
I really wish we could get another great Mass Effect game, but I knew not to get my hopes up. I played Andromeda, after all.
Despite combat being better and more polished in Andromeda than it was in the trilogy Mass Effect, Andromeda felt like a fan-fiction adaptation of Mass Effect. It did not feel like it was made by the same people. I feel like tying that game into Mass Effect was a mistake.
They understand the cost of everything, the value of nothing
EA Games: Value Nothing
How dare you say this??? They value money and the shareholders muuuuuuch more than you do!
They do definitely only care about money, but there aren't shareholders anymore.
It's just a shame they never made a 4th dragon age
And do not pretend that they didn't told you that it's wokeness that killed the modern game industry!
/sAmerican. Modern American game-industry. Which sadly is the majority.
No no, you're wrong, it was the girls. Girls ruined gaming forever. Stupid girls and their needing to be seen and not be patronized to.
Sims 2 for life!
They made my 2 favorite game series of all time. While we all known they fell a long time ago, this still makes me sad.
Squeaky wheel gets the kick!
This makes me sick to my stomach. I know the last dragon age and mass effect weren't good. But I was still hopeful despite knowing better. There at least was a chance the next ME would be good. I didn't get far in veilguard, and I'll probably never finish it, but I still want to fuck around in Thedas. Like others have said this isn't a surprise, but it hurts me to see this happen to what was once my favorite studio.
I should go.
You have better chance to win a lottery
did people not remember westwood, and trashing command and conquer after RA3, that was unforgivable.
C&C 4 was so bad, Kane decided to go back to Italy where it all began and run a cinephile YT channel
Lest we forget. I still have my C&C Decades collection to replay.
Batteries Included – Purchased in 1987 and closed that same year.
Origin Systems – Purchased in 1992. Closed in 2004.
Bullfrog Productions – Purchased in 1995. Closed in 2001.
Maxis – Purchased in 1997. Closed in 2015. (Studio name still used by EA.)
Westwood Studios / EA Pacific – Purchased in 1998. Closed in 2003.
Kesmai – Purchased in 1999. Closed in 2001.
DreamWorks Interactive / Danger Close Games – Purchased in 2000. Closed in 2013.
Black Box Games – Purchased in 2002. Closed in 2013.
NuFX / EA Chicago – Purchased in 2004. Closed in 2007.
Hypnotix – Purchased and shut down in 2005. Team folded into EA Tiburon.
Mythic Entertainment – Purchased in 2006. Closed in 2014.
Phenomic Game Development – Purchased in 2006. Closed in 2013.
Headgate Studios / EA Salt Lake – Purchased in 2006. Closed in 2017.
Pandemic Studios – Purchased in 2007. Closed in 2009.
J2MSoft – Purchased in 2008 and folded into EA Korea.
Playfish – Purchased in 2009. Closed in 2013.
Chillingo – Purchased in 2010. Began shutting down in 2017. Fully closed in 2023.
Industrial Toys – Purchased in 2018. Closed in 2023.
BioWare – Purchased in 2007. Closed in 2026.
This is really sad.
It's hard to believe that titles like Mass Effect: Andromeda, Anthem and Dragon Age: The Veilguard couldn't save them.
It sucks to see them die, but they did played an hand in their downfall.
In fairness, Anthem was set up to fail. Bioware hadn't built such a game and then being pushed along by EA it was doomed.
Andromeda had its own series of issues.
All of their recent releases were below average, I'm not surprised they closed down. Sad because this studio had created some really good games in the past.
Nothing easy about writing those words? Nobody can even read a mass effect game.
I read them, I enjoyed them. I had a long hiatus from gaming from like 2013-2022 and got to "discover" a lot of great games releatively recently. Happy to have played all the mass effect games and dragon age games before SA PIF bought EA.
This will happen to Rockstar before GTA6 comes out. They can't admit they don't have a game.
What? Gta 6 is like next month
You've mistaken GTA6 for star citizen.
Upvoting this hurt me. I hate that you're so damn right.
GTA6 trailers all just look like Call of Duty knock offs.
I mean, enjoy yourself, but I was done with that franchise when they peaked back at GTA3
If they wanted me to care about more than one paragraph, they could have left-aligned like responsible adults. Center alignment is godawful to read.
Spoken like a true leftist. /s