I would really like to hope that someday we can do better than Obama. Being the best president in recent memory isn't an amazingly high bar and I'd really like to see a world where we have something better.
Especially with respect to foreign policy. And I know many folks don't connect with why that's a big deal, but one of my closest friends is Coptic and her people were targeted for ethnic cleansing by a militant faction in Egypt after Obama backed them, because our favorite foreign policy in the US is to back some militant group anytime what the government of a region is doing is even mildly inconvenient to us.
If you remember the men that Isis executed on the beach in video, in the first like beheading video that was a thing ages ago- those men were Copts. My friend has community members she considered family who are dead now back in Egypt. If I remember right she said the population dropped from like 15% of Egypt to 5% in a span of a handful of years.
The toll of horrifying american foreign policy is not just an abstract bogeyman leftist bring up to trash politicians you like, they have actual death tolls and leave behind people who are mourning. Its not even good foreign policy either, we're radicalized half the world to hate our guts, which as it turns out is not the most geopolitically advantageous.
Good comment. I agree with every word you said, just thought I'd point out for the random passerby that the Copts are one of the oldest Christian groups on the planet, said to have been introduced to Christianity by the apostle Mark -- as in the author of the Gospel of St. Mark -- himself.
I have known Copts myself, though not well, and was honored to visit one of their liturgical services many years ago: they are incredibly hospitable and welcoming people, and very kind to this stranger.
More people should be aware that what you are describing is a group of actual, sincere (and not just tediously performative) Christian people genuinely persecuted and dying for their religion by Isis, and also targeted by pseudo-Christians in US government for political expediency. And it goes unnoticed because few even know who the Copts are.
I don't think most people on Lemmy are aware of how much of the far right conspiratards still believe that "the Kenyan" is actually still in charge. Even now, during Trump, everything bad is being done by Obama, the Manchurian candidate.
It's funny to think about, but also sobering to realize he's the best president Dems have had recently considering just how much he capitulated to Republicans after he got his signature ACA bill passed. I'll never forgive him for not putting up a fight with McConnell over his Supreme Court nominee.
I was deep in the weeds of the ACA fight and this is not at all how it went down. Democrats had a filibuster-proof majority for only a few months altogether, and many in the caucus at the time were moderate red-state Democrats that didn't support a universal system. Hell, one of them, Joe Lieberman, had actively campaigned for John McCain and was on the shortlist to be his VP!
The ACA that passed via reconciliation was the most progressive possible version of it that could have passed; lose one senator or a couple of representatives in the final vote and it would have failed to pass (and arguably destroyed Obama's presidency in the process).
Fuck , he's a war criminal, and you're demonstrating perfectly why even their own voters hate the Democrats and won't be voting for them in the future.
After seeing this term used for years, this is probably the first time it even slightly made any sense. There is no bLuE mAgA. Because the actual maga cult is several million people. Not like 3000 weirdos total.
Ironically, the problem with liberals is their absolute obsession with "process". It's why they are hopeless in the face of fascism. They see the fascist breaking the process, ignoring it, laughing in their faces. But will not "go down to their level".
It's not something unexpected. Obama and his "legacy". His legacy is Trump. His absolute failure as a president in the face of massive in equality, endless wars, and civil rights. Of course the liberals loved him. He did everything by the books, reached across the aisle, and left things to the absolute failure of a candidate that was Hillary Clinton. But they happily followed the "process" let themselves be blocked by a party over and over that did not care about it.
Say what you will about the Republicans. But, they actually have goals that they have met. Packed courts, secret police, concentration camps. They care about results.
Hell, a fucking bread tuber explained it perfectly 7 years ago.
They will watch liberal democracy burn before they take a single step outside of its "process" to protect it. They will side with the fascist over anyone that tries to resist them. The fascist after all will suddenly be very concerned about "the process" when the Democratic party voters start electing people with actual goals.
Well, they'll be very concerned about "the process being violated" in these suddenly very suspicious elections. The establishment Democrat politicians and the fascist Republicans will suddenly work together to stop "communist" or whatever.
It's happening now. The Democrats can't seem to love Fox News enough these days. Complaining about these damn DSA candidates.
How can people watch their beloved "liberals" go on Fox News day after day talking about how much of a threat a resistance to Trump and ICE are. Is anyone that is a lifelong Democrat actually believing this shit? They are showing you who they really are now. You don't even have to look hard.
You probably already know how the history of liberalism developed, but it was developed during tumultuous periods in European history of constant warring due to differences in beliefs (as well criticism on government control on economy by mercantilism). So, modern day liberals have strong, almost co-dependence I would say, to sticking to "decorum" and "process" as you mentioned. I still see many liberals can't fathom the possibility of a far right entrenchment and afraid to even consider of taking up arms or a civil war against a tyrannical government. That being said, to be fair to the liberal American founding fathers, they recognise the possibility of a tyrannical government and included the second amendment as last resort. However, many liberals are afraid to even consider taking arms if it comes to it (which is understandable because of the previous civil war), and think the next midterm elections won't be interfered upon by Trump and his broligarchs.
I'd say the problem with liberals is they're class traitors, liars, and snakes. They don't mind that their largest donors are also raping and murdering innocent children with our tax dollars. Liberals break the law all the time. They don't mind bending process to fit their needs. They don't mind what Trump and the traitor republicans are doing, that's why they aren't breaking the process.
Agreed. The liberals politicians are very much willing to serve the interest of fascist at this point. I would say that their voting base is still stuck in the same mindset that they have been conditioned into believing though. "Just one more injunction that'll do it! We told them STOP IT!"
We are at a turning point though. The liberal voting base is electing socialist (in name at least). The liberal politicians will side with the fascist to stop it from gaining momentum. And, well, that will grow class consciousness within our society when it is inevitably obvious to even the dumbest liberals.
The worse thing that could happen. Is the DSA candidates are captured by political system itself and allowed to remain within it but never gain enough power. This is unfortunately the likely outcome.
My goal in DSA is gain enough momentum that the fascist and liberals are forced to show their faces. The liberals must be scratched to show they bleed as fascist. But I don't have delusions of a reform. It's why we cannot compromise with liberals. Their is no benefit to being captured by them.
I don't believe AOC will be a ground breaking president that would fundamentally change the flaws and move us towards socialism. But, I also don't think the liberals and fascist would even allow her to be elected. Which is exactly why I will be pushing for her come 2028. Her campaign is useful for propaganda that can grow class consciousness. And the more overwhelmingly we grow that and advertise it through the political process. The more people we'll have angry when the fascist and liberals work together and do not give up their power.
That's the best I can hope for at this point. And at that point, decades will happen in weeks. One way or another.
43 replies
Then another 2008 hits
Mr political middle compromiser?
I would really like to hope that someday we can do better than Obama. Being the best president in recent memory isn't an amazingly high bar and I'd really like to see a world where we have something better.
Especially with respect to foreign policy. And I know many folks don't connect with why that's a big deal, but one of my closest friends is Coptic and her people were targeted for ethnic cleansing by a militant faction in Egypt after Obama backed them, because our favorite foreign policy in the US is to back some militant group anytime what the government of a region is doing is even mildly inconvenient to us.
If you remember the men that Isis executed on the beach in video, in the first like beheading video that was a thing ages ago- those men were Copts. My friend has community members she considered family who are dead now back in Egypt. If I remember right she said the population dropped from like 15% of Egypt to 5% in a span of a handful of years.
The toll of horrifying american foreign policy is not just an abstract bogeyman leftist bring up to trash politicians you like, they have actual death tolls and leave behind people who are mourning. Its not even good foreign policy either, we're radicalized half the world to hate our guts, which as it turns out is not the most geopolitically advantageous.
Good comment. I agree with every word you said, just thought I'd point out for the random passerby that the Copts are one of the oldest Christian groups on the planet, said to have been introduced to Christianity by the apostle Mark -- as in the author of the Gospel of St. Mark -- himself.
I have known Copts myself, though not well, and was honored to visit one of their liturgical services many years ago: they are incredibly hospitable and welcoming people, and very kind to this stranger.
More people should be aware that what you are describing is a group of actual, sincere (and not just tediously performative) Christian people genuinely persecuted and dying for their religion by Isis, and also targeted by pseudo-Christians in US government for political expediency. And it goes unnoticed because few even know who the Copts are.
The last US president who could actually spoke a full coherent phrase.
You would said that?
I don't think most people on Lemmy are aware of how much of the far right conspiratards still believe that "the Kenyan" is actually still in charge. Even now, during Trump, everything bad is being done by Obama, the Manchurian candidate.
It's always projection.
It's funny to think about, but also sobering to realize he's the best president Dems have had recently considering just how much he capitulated to Republicans after he got his signature ACA bill passed. I'll never forgive him for not putting up a fight with McConnell over his Supreme Court nominee.
Biden was better. He quietly got more done, and didn't play into their games.
Biden would have appointed the empty Supreme Court seat.
His signature ACA bill that was so gutted and piecemealed together by the GOP that it was doomed to fail in every way possible.
We were gonna have universal healthcare and now we have $20k bills to pickup a dead child from your house.
Like it's so bad in the U.S. people are going to Mexico for medical care. Mexico!
I was deep in the weeds of the ACA fight and this is not at all how it went down. Democrats had a filibuster-proof majority for only a few months altogether, and many in the caucus at the time were moderate red-state Democrats that didn't support a universal system. Hell, one of them, Joe Lieberman, had actively campaigned for John McCain and was on the shortlist to be his VP!
The ACA that passed via reconciliation was the most progressive possible version of it that could have passed; lose one senator or a couple of representatives in the final vote and it would have failed to pass (and arguably destroyed Obama's presidency in the process).
Mexico should build a wall... ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° )
Michelle would leave and he loves her a whole lot more than he loves the rest of us.
Imagine this with the other Obama. A black woman that the MAGAts hate, on the Dems primaries.
Fuck , he's a war criminal, and you're demonstrating perfectly why even their own voters hate the Democrats and won't be voting for them in the future.
Still the best they've had in a long while
That's a ridiculously low bar, though.
That's like winning a spelling bee by being the only one to successfully spell "lamp".
That it is
Nice
OMG What a retarded comment. Isn't it time for you to have a little lay down.. ..in the middle of a busy motorway.
Slurs fucking suuuck
"obama is a war criminal"
"go kill yourself you [ableist slur]"
thank u for demonstrating to the class why you’re called blue maga
After seeing this term used for years, this is probably the first time it even slightly made any sense. There is no bLuE mAgA. Because the actual maga cult is several million people. Not like 3000 weirdos total.
Typical fucking liberal. Someone (correctly) criticizes Obama's war crimes, so you call them an ableist slur and tell them to kill themself.
Do better.
busy motorway?
No thanks. Not another centrist.
Between the 2 you'd vote for Trump or not vote?
If that happens; we all just [redacted] our landlords and see what happens after that.
We could agree to ignore the 22nd amendment for just 2028
Ah yes, let's do the same thing we hate Trump for doing, breaking the law. Just liberal things
Ironically, the problem with liberals is their absolute obsession with "process". It's why they are hopeless in the face of fascism. They see the fascist breaking the process, ignoring it, laughing in their faces. But will not "go down to their level".
It's not something unexpected. Obama and his "legacy". His legacy is Trump. His absolute failure as a president in the face of massive in equality, endless wars, and civil rights. Of course the liberals loved him. He did everything by the books, reached across the aisle, and left things to the absolute failure of a candidate that was Hillary Clinton. But they happily followed the "process" let themselves be blocked by a party over and over that did not care about it.
Say what you will about the Republicans. But, they actually have goals that they have met. Packed courts, secret police, concentration camps. They care about results.
Hell, a fucking bread tuber explained it perfectly 7 years ago.
https://youtu.be/MAbab8aP4_A
They will watch liberal democracy burn before they take a single step outside of its "process" to protect it. They will side with the fascist over anyone that tries to resist them. The fascist after all will suddenly be very concerned about "the process" when the Democratic party voters start electing people with actual goals.
Well, they'll be very concerned about "the process being violated" in these suddenly very suspicious elections. The establishment Democrat politicians and the fascist Republicans will suddenly work together to stop "communist" or whatever.
It's happening now. The Democrats can't seem to love Fox News enough these days. Complaining about these damn DSA candidates.
How can people watch their beloved "liberals" go on Fox News day after day talking about how much of a threat a resistance to Trump and ICE are. Is anyone that is a lifelong Democrat actually believing this shit? They are showing you who they really are now. You don't even have to look hard.
You probably already know how the history of liberalism developed, but it was developed during tumultuous periods in European history of constant warring due to differences in beliefs (as well criticism on government control on economy by mercantilism). So, modern day liberals have strong, almost co-dependence I would say, to sticking to "decorum" and "process" as you mentioned. I still see many liberals can't fathom the possibility of a far right entrenchment and afraid to even consider of taking up arms or a civil war against a tyrannical government. That being said, to be fair to the liberal American founding fathers, they recognise the possibility of a tyrannical government and included the second amendment as last resort. However, many liberals are afraid to even consider taking arms if it comes to it (which is understandable because of the previous civil war), and think the next midterm elections won't be interfered upon by Trump and his broligarchs.
I'd say the problem with liberals is they're class traitors, liars, and snakes. They don't mind that their largest donors are also raping and murdering innocent children with our tax dollars. Liberals break the law all the time. They don't mind bending process to fit their needs. They don't mind what Trump and the traitor republicans are doing, that's why they aren't breaking the process.
Agreed. The liberals politicians are very much willing to serve the interest of fascist at this point. I would say that their voting base is still stuck in the same mindset that they have been conditioned into believing though. "Just one more injunction that'll do it! We told them STOP IT!"
We are at a turning point though. The liberal voting base is electing socialist (in name at least). The liberal politicians will side with the fascist to stop it from gaining momentum. And, well, that will grow class consciousness within our society when it is inevitably obvious to even the dumbest liberals.
The worse thing that could happen. Is the DSA candidates are captured by political system itself and allowed to remain within it but never gain enough power. This is unfortunately the likely outcome.
My goal in DSA is gain enough momentum that the fascist and liberals are forced to show their faces. The liberals must be scratched to show they bleed as fascist. But I don't have delusions of a reform. It's why we cannot compromise with liberals. Their is no benefit to being captured by them.
I don't believe AOC will be a ground breaking president that would fundamentally change the flaws and move us towards socialism. But, I also don't think the liberals and fascist would even allow her to be elected. Which is exactly why I will be pushing for her come 2028. Her campaign is useful for propaganda that can grow class consciousness. And the more overwhelmingly we grow that and advertise it through the political process. The more people we'll have angry when the fascist and liberals work together and do not give up their power.
That's the best I can hope for at this point. And at that point, decades will happen in weeks. One way or another.
I promise you that this is not the reason that I hate trump.
Trump breaking the law doesn't make you hate him? I don't understand.
I hate him cause he’s a rapist and a murderer and a shit head.
We have laws against all that.
EvErYtHiNg I DoNt lIkE iS LiBeRaL
Is Obama not liberal?
I didn't realize he made this post