Can't be the worst flop. The Cybertruck outsold the Ioniq 6 by roughly a 2:1 margin in the US. Both were introduced around the same time, and it sounds like Hyundai already pulled the 6 from the US market. But while the Cybertruck was a certified piece of crap, the Ioniq 6 was consistently rated at the top of available EV on the market. I guess sedans are pretty much DOA as a body style these days though.
Oh wait, did you forget that the Cybertrucks's #1 customer was SpaceX? Also, you are just plain wrong. Hyundai sold approximately 37,000 Ioniq 6's in just the US.
Tesla sold 20,237 Cybertrucks, but SpaceX bought exactly 1,279 of them. So the actual number would be 18,958.
Are you confusing Ioniq 5 with the 6? I doubt Hyundai sold 37,000 Ioniq 6s in the US throughout its entire production run, but Tesla sold 38,965 CTs in 2024 alone, and a little over 20K in 2025. I have seen this number on other sites as well. Hyundai reported percentage decline for the Ioniq 6, but I saw sliding numbers from 2023 to 2024 where they sold about 9000 cars per year down to only about 1200 in total for 2026 before they pulled out. The Ioniq 5 sells over 30K cars per year.
While that may be true, I can't imagine any American article considering a perspective outside of the US. CT is available in Canada as well, and at least anecdotally, I see them just a little less often than Ioniq 6s. I bought a 6 a couple years ago and love it. Interestingly, I did not find the 5 as appealing, though it too had good bona fides as an EV.
I feel like to count it for a flop you have to account for total produced units as well as the sales. For example if a company produces 100,000 units and sells 99,000 of them those are solid numbers, but if a company produces 400,000 units and only sold 200,000 of those units that honestly a pretty shit sell rate even if they technically sold more.
For sure I think that matters. Total investment cost in developing it and manufacturing facilities as well too. At least the Ioniq 6 sells well elsewhere. It's more of a US flop, but I doubt they are thinking beyond their borders when it comes to worst automotive flop ever.
I suspect it would not have been a huge success, but it would have done significantly better if all the political BS hadn't been involved. Whatever though, it's in the history books now.
Politics aside it would have done significantly better if the pricing they had during its announcement event was anything close to the pricing it had at release. They announced it at $39.9k, $49.9k, and $69.9k for the RWD, AWD, and Cyberbeast. The RWD didn’t really ever happen, at least not as announced. They did release a RWD but it was different and much more expensive. They pulled it from market after ~5 months. The AWD and Cyberbeast actually released at $69.9k and $99.9k. Needless to say many people cancelled their preorders.
Even if Musk had remained entirely apolitical, I can't imagine the Cyber Truck doing much better without also doing something to address the high profile safety issues with the car and the insane number of recalls issued for it. Even if it had managed to get off to a stronger start, I would still expect people to abandon it in droves once they realized it was an overpriced deathtrap that could crap out on them and leave them stranded at any time.
I had some weirdo conservative explain that he would have gotten one but he was scared some "trans thug" would single him out for retribution if he drove one - it's incredible, musk has finally united both sides of US politics with this truck; Nobody wants to be seen in one of these things.
I actuaally like the look of the cybertruck. Probably just because it is something different. Most cars eesm to be nearly all the same these days.
That said, everything about the cyber truck besides the look is terrible. Soo many rushed choices... and of course there is Elon. I like that he does things regular companies wouldn't. But how he does them is generally horrible. And of course, he is horrible too.
I love cars that are different but the cybertruck just ain't it. When they announced it the proportions worked pretty well and I'd say looked pretty good, but then they released the production model and it lost any good looks it had because of those proportions. Then it came out that the frame is aluminum, and they're terrible at anything a truck should be able to do (except for drive in a straight line fast).
This is coming from a guy that actually likes how the Pontiac Aztek looks (I still don't understand why people think it's so ugly) and would probably drive a Fiat Multipla!
For as long as I live I'll never understand how people could see that unveiling where the doofuses on stage hurl a big metal ball at the "bulletproof" glass and watch it crack during the live demo, and still think "Yeah I'll pre-order one of those".
Manchildren, fascist sympathizers, and deeply unserious or delusional people drive these cars. There is no "I bought it before I knew how crazy Elon was."
The Bronco had massive failures as soon as people started getting their hands on them. Sales went crazy at first but then crashed through the floor. There's a Ford dealer across from my work that has like 85 of them on the lot and they barely sell now.
I love it when I get to see a cybertruck. No matter the time of day, it lifts my spirit when I burst out laughing at seeing the stupidest vehicle ever, and the idiot in the driver’s seat. Like, this makes the Toyota FJ Cruiser look like a 911. That in itself is an amazing feat.
After 16 years of daily driving I had to replace it 2 times due to large stones from a truck on a highway in front of me. Each time the insurance covered it. The car has been rock solid compared to others in the same price range in the same region.
If Breaking Bad came on the air now, Walter White would be driving the SwastitruKKK instead of the Aztek, which was the ugliest vehicle of all time, at the time.
I always figured there was an untold backstory of WW getting that Aztek, in which he goes into the dealership, and they instantly pegged him as malleable, so they pressured him into the fugliest vehicle on the lot, that NOBODY else would even look at. But he was too weak to resist the sales pitch, so he drove home in the horrible Aztek.
I think this would be the car to be replaced by the cybertruck:
In terms of obnoxiousness and poor taste (plus the humvee branding and quasi militaristic styling during the Iraq invasion), the H2 evoked similar reactions as well
I'd say ugliest of all time went to another car that was featured on Breaking Bad: the PT Cruiser, appropriately used as a car gift that causes insult rather than happiness.
Though I'd bet the actual backstory to WW's Aztek is Pontiac paid them a bunch of money to use it in the hopes that it would boost sales if the show became popular.
I think that was precisely their target market with this and I'm sure Florida and Arizona are full of them. They really are hideous though, much more in person.
You just know this is the one car that Elon designed personally, like that episode of the Simpsons where Homer bankrupts his brothers car company, only real life doesn't actually punish idiocy.
I would usually give a lot of credit to someone trying something different, but I'd drive a 1971 Ford Pinto before I ever intentionally get within photographable proximity to a Cybertruck.
The danger of the Pinto was exaggerated. Do a web search for the You're Wrong About episode on the Pinto. The investigative reporting on the Pinto's safety flaw used a demonstration rigged to explode. Other subcompact cars had a similar dangling fuel tank, and the number of actual Pinto explosions in the field was actually rarer than those of its competitors.
When the cybertruck was first announced, I actually appreciated how different it looked, but its performance and association to Musk has entirely ruined any hope of me ever liking a low-poly vehicle ever again.
When the cybertruck was first announced, I actually appreciated how different it looked
Yeah, same here. I usually like weird looking forms for ordinary objects. The cybertruck counts.
Even disregarding the emotional association to Musk, which is nigh impossible, the engineering of the car makes it suck to hell, because that's all Musk's decision he forced.
I thought it would look unique in a geeky way. Instead it looks unique in a Nazi way. That's not my vibe. Killed my enthusiasm for owning something that I knew most people would hate. Also costing twice as much and being a piece of shit.
I didn't really care about the look. Then I saw one in the flesh in a car show. The thing just looked strange up close. It was cordoned off too unlike the hundreds of other cars there. I guess they didn't want people touching it because lots of greasy fingers and stainless steel body don't mix well.
That's quite exactly what they were going for actually. Lo-res graphic to represent hi-tech. Somewhat like military camo is now pixelated for no practical reason.
Very interesting, but after reading, it specifically states that it's the multi scaling that has a function on the battlefield, which can be implemented through all shapes basically.
The 'digital' (square) patterning is most certainly either cost saving measures, fashion, or both.
"The pixellated style, however, simplifies design and eases printing on fabric, compared to traditional patterns. While digital patterns are becoming widespread, critics maintain that the pixellated look is a question of fashion rather than function.[7]"
Now I'm aware you just stated that 'it had a practical purpose' but your tone and framing suggests to me something other than 'its easier and cheaper to manufacture'.
Neither pixellation nor digitization contributes to the camouflaging effect. The pixellated style, however, simplifies design and eases printing on fabric, compared to traditional patterns. While digital patterns are becoming widespread, critics maintain that the pixellated look is a question of fashion rather than function.
nah, you're totally off topic. I was responding to looks. sorry for distracting you away from looks by mentioning practicality. on practicality, the reason for the cybertruck panels is they're stainless steel. on looks, you didn't reply. since you avoided that topic, i suspect you're another sheep who jumped on the "ugly" bandwagon and aren't able to say much more than "ugly ugly ugly". no interest.
I've been having the same conversation with my kids for weeks now.
"Daddy, look, it's that car you hate."
"Daddy, we saw that car you hate."
"Daddy, that car you hate just drove by."
Finally today I was like, "Can you please stop calling it that? It's not that I hate it. It's just poorly made. And it looks like it was designed by someone who... doesn't know how to design things. Because it was. And I think we can all agree about the ethical ramifications of buying a car from an avowed Nazi." So I mean I guess maybe I do hate it, but it certainly gives away my political beliefs when they bring up that car I hate in mixed company.
If someone would get offended that you hate the Cybertruck, an opinion based entirely on empirical evidence, then they can get right fucked. I don’t care who they are, or what kind of power they think they hold over me.
Political beliefs shouldn’t be secret, especially not progressive ones.
If I could sway hearts and minds by getting into an argument at my daughter's Girl Scout meeting, I'd happily do it. Hell I'd probably do it for fun if the mood struck me, but realistically that's not how it works. No one would take the bait. Believe me, no one ever takes the bait.
So it's just my kids awkwardly letting the world know that I rant about these things in private. And frankly I wouldn't rant about politics to a six-year-old except that she kept saying she thought the Cybertruck looked "cool", and I just wasn't ok with that.
You don’t need to rant, just stand up for your beliefs. If someone asks why your kid knows about Elon Musk being evil you say that you felt it important for her to know that even though she can think the truck looks cool, it’s directly attached to a very bad person. That’s just good parenting.
If they take issue with you disliking Musk (since I presume that is the political belief you are talking about) then maybe they are not great company to keep.
It also depends on what we mean by "take issue". I generally don't think I have ever had a strong reaction to someone disliking any public figure. I can't think of any public figures who don't have some reason you could find to dislike them.
If they're going to have some major argument about that then they do seem a bit odd to me.
I just don't need my six-year-old talking about it to everyone. I'm in Texas. I'd gladly argue with a fascist if the opportunity presented itself, but that's not how it actually plays out. It just makes it seem like I rant to my kids.
And none of these people who for some reason you're worried about ... ?thinking you rant to your kids? have anything their kids say "oh that's that X that dad hates"? I don't believe that you'd be like the only dad with something you dislike that your kids picked up on. Maybe theirs is a sports team or idk Miracle Whip...
Do car preferences really matter that much? I remember Ford vs Chevy vs Foreign from the 80s and probably earlier - brand or model hate isn't that new or special where I grew up. Is Texas that different?
Because people can't get rid of them. Many would dump it if they could, but Tesla won't even take them in trade, and nobody will buy one used. So they have no choice but to drive it until the market changes somehow.
There will come a time when they'll be cheap enough to drive ironically, probably with flowers and peace signs painted on it.
They are not allowed because of their sharp corners, no crumple zones. They're dangerous for occupants as well as any other road users in case of an accident
Really? I see chuds driving them all over my town unfortunately. Admittedly far less popular than other Tesla vehicles though which are absolutely everywhere here in CA. Seems like most people forgot Musk is a nazi already.
I see them every so often in Seattle. I always give them a disapproving look and a big thumbs down, I’ve found that pisses people off more than a middle finger.
I drew a swastika in the dust on the hood of one once and gave the finger to the cameras. I have little hope that the owner was persuaded in the slightest. Also, my nephews yell out "Lego car!" when they see one.
Seems like most people forgot Musk is a nazi already.
A realisation I’ve had is that if everyone from this era went back in time to the 1930’s there’d be a lot of investing into the Nazi stock market for those stonks!
Genocide, war crimes and general harm towards humanity don’t mean much to a lot of people when personal gains or convenience are available.
It's even better when you do it pure organically, I was bashing a model y with some friends, no clue the owner was showing back up, "I like the concept of electric vehicles, however Tesla's are one of worse options you could go for, plus they look like obese Porsches." Ohh hey "I don't like your car"
Lol there were a lot of those three wheelers around when I was a kid. They seemed pretty okay for city driving, wouldn't have wanted to try going at any speed in one tho. In fact, someone I know has most of one, says he's gonna restore it but it's been under a tarp for years so. . .
The three wheels and the fibreglass construction meant that it was light enough to count as a tricycle, so that you could drive one on a motorcycle license rather than a full driving license. Plus they sip quite gently at the petrol by the standards of the 1970s. You still saw a few on the roads when I was growing up in the 80s, but it's been a long time.
The thought of doing 85 mph in one of them is enough to make me fill my trousers, though. Couldn't pay me enough.
An electric pickup isn't a no-brainer for the US market. It's a big-brainer.
Most EVs are shaped like running shoes for aerodynamics. Pickup trucks are big air smacking slabs. Larger pickup trucks advertise towing capacity as a major feature, EVs are bad at towing, again because of aerodynamics. The additional batteries and such required to make an EV pickup work are large, heavy and expensive. I think the technology needs to cook a bit before we get there.
Now on the compact pickup truck front...those are basically extinct. The Slate is almost a good attempt, the problem is it's almost the anti-cybertruck. The Cybertruck is what you get when a billionaire nazi notices how thoroughly the drugs have emptied his scrotum. It's the costume a truly awful male wears to cosplay as a man. The Slate is almost the equal and opposite, it's what r/fuckcars thinks of when they start a sentence with "Can't you just make do with..." A 20 year old S10 kicks the Slate's ass in every way because the Slate is designed mostly to play dress-up like a barbie doll. They're taking pre-orders but they won't show you where the tie down points in the bed are.
Gas trucks suck fuel when towing too. It's the nature of the task. The question mostly imo is - are you towing long distances? (well are you going long distances is a big EV question generally). If you're towing stuff back from the hardware store then EV is fine for towing. If you're doing some sort of small hauling job going hundreds of miles then not so much.
Where I end up is - how often generally are you towing? If it's 2x a year or less - rent a truck and otherwise save craptons of money. I know - I have wasted 10k splitting a 2003 f250 with my sister to get a tractor home "and we would need to tow stuff semi regularly and renting from Enterprise was a PITA". Yea sure - we used it for towing twice. Finally managed to sell it.
I think we tow more on a 8x10 landscape trailer for bringing lumber home etc and tow with my Outback and now Pilot than we tow with the 1500 we have for "bigger stuff".
Though maybe that's because we sort of stopped going to farm auctions...
The folks who really care about tow ratings and range are those who have boats or campers. Which means they do road trips while towing. Do you want to tow a camper on a road trip in a rented vehicle?
Yes, gas trucks also suffer poorer fuel economy when towing. It's less of a practical problem because it means more 10 minute fuel stops. With an EV, it means more 3 hour fuel stops. It's fairly easy to equip a gas truck with a larger or additional fuel tank. My S10's fuel tank is on the left side of the bed; it would be fairly trivial to mount another tank on the right side, or, a Blazer's fuel tank isn't that hard to install behind the axle where the pickup hangs its spare tire. Doubling or tripling a pickup truck's range is something a guy can do at his house. It's functionally impossible with an EV.
The Slate is almost the equal and opposite, it’s what r/fuckcars thinks of when they start a sentence with “Can’t you just make do with…” A 20 year old S10 kicks the Slate’s ass in every way because the Slate is designed mostly to play dress-up like a barbie doll. They’re taking pre-orders but they won’t show you where the tie down points in the bed are.
Speaking as a mod of !fuckcars and the owner of a 30-year-old Ford Ranger, I want a Slate truck and I don't think my current truck would be able to kick its ass. (Well, aside from off-roading, since the Slate doesn't have a 4x4 version yet. And, uh, ease of refueling in the wilderness. Hmm.)
Okay, so maybe it wouldn't be an upgrade in all ways, but IMO those tradeoffs are still worth it because the lack of telemetry and other enshittification means it's the first modern mass-market electric car (of any type, truck or otherwise) I'll be willing to own.
My S10 outranges a Slate by over 50%, refuels from empty to full in less than five minutes, seats 4, has a 6 foot bed, tows up to 7600 pounds...a Slate is a massive step back in a lot of ways.
My Ranger seats 3 in a pinch and is rated to tow 1600 pounds (2.3L I4, regular cab, manual, 4x4) so you can see how my perspective is a little different.
If the Slate had a 6 foot bed, VTL capability, and a little more range I'd be really into it. I'm a woodworker, hauling plywood and lumber with a 5 foot bed doesn't sound fun.
I don't know enough about physics or cars to really rebut you but this doesn't seem plausible to me.
I don't think aerodynamics are particularly relevant to towing? Prime movers (tractor trailers?) are about the least aerodynamic vehicle there is but they regularly tow more than 100 tonnes at highway speed.
If I had to guess I'd suggest the primary problem is the relationship between system weight of the vehicle and load, battery capacity, and the battery's weight. As in, if you want to be able to cart 1 ton for 200km then the additional battery requirement is another 300kg so that's really only an extra 700kg so you need more battery and heavier frame and so on.
Another problem I suppose, and I emphasize that this is supposition, is optimising motors for both torque and speed. The torque required to break inertia with lots of weight in sandy or muddy terrain.
The maximum weight for a tractor-trailer rig in the United States is 80,000 pounds, 40 short tons or 36.36 metric tons.
A tractor-trailer rig is surprisingly streamlined. The cab is shaped and sized for the front of the trailer to ride closely in its wake, often with fairings that reach as close to the trailer as practicable. Sure it's a brick, but it's ONE brick:
A pickup truck towing a trailer isn't anywhere near that slick, even with a gooseneck trailer, the trailer is often taller and wider than the cab. It's a brick, attached to another, larger brick being pulled through the turbulent disturbed air from the first brick:
In terms of torque, EVs have a significant advantage. Electric motors produce a lot more torque at low to zero RPM than internal combustion engines do. Limited slip differentials or all-wheel drive are solved problems.
The additional energy required to accelerate the additional weight up to speed isn't that much of a problem as an EV will get that back with regenerative braking. Well, some of it. Most trailers have brakes of their own that do help with braking distance but are there mostly to keep the hitch under tension to prevent jackknifing. An ICEV figures on losing all of that energy to friction braking, a BEV plans on recovering some of it. An electric pickup carrying 1000 pounds in the bed will be more efficient than one pulling a 1000 pound trailer, in most cases.
The maximum weight for a tractor-trailer rig in the United States is 80,000 pounds, 40 short tons or 36.36 metric tons.
I'm not sure what you're getting at with this. Here in Australia road trains haul 90 metric tons of grain and fertilizer all the time, that doesn't include the weight of the trailers.
Regardless, I'm not quite sure what you're trying to illustrate - your example of a "streamlined vehicle" undoubtedly consumes a lot more diesel than your example of a vehicle which is not streamlined. Isn't that antithetical?
In terms of torque, EVs have a significant advantage.
Yes, but a "truck" with a 4 ton towing capacity obviously needs motors with more torque than those on a tesla.
The additional energy required to accelerate the additional weight up to speed isn’t that much of a problem as an EV will get that back with regenerative braking. Well, some of it.
As little as 5 to 10% on the highway, not particularly significant. Installing regenerative brakes on a trailer is a lot of additional cost and complexity.
In the United States, if you need more than about 20 tons of freight moved, you use the railroad not the highway. "Road trains" aren't a thing here.
Regardless, I’m not quite sure what you’re trying to illustrate - your example of a “streamlined vehicle” undoubtedly consumes a lot more diesel than your example of a vehicle which is not streamlined. Isn’t that antithetical?
In absolute terms, yes. A semi truck consumes more fuel than a pickup truck. So does a diesel locomotive. The point is the difference in aerodynamic drag with and without the trailer.
Aerodynamically, a semi truck is the same shape with and without a trailer. Somewhat streamlined nose, flat sides, flat rear. With the trailer attached, that flat rear is just 50 feet further away. A semi truck without a trailer will make better fuel economy because it doesn't have to accelerate the additional weight or overcome the friction in the additional axles, but the cab has already taken most of the aerodynamic punishment it can.
With a non-streamlined pickup truck, the additional wheel friction and acceleration energy are factors, but you're also functionally doing this:
So a pickup truck sees a much bigger punishment to fuel economy when you hitch up a trailer than a semi does.
Yes, but a “truck” with a 4 ton towing capacity obviously needs motors with more torque than those on a tesla.
Not necessarily. My S10's 4.3L V6 engine makes 200 horsepower and 200 foot pounds of torque. It's rated to tow 7600 pounds, with the addition of a transmission cooler. A Tesla Model Y is rated at 397 horsepower and 389 foot pounds of torque, it is rated to tow 3500 pounds. A lot more factors than horsepower and torque go into a tow rating. The strength of the frame at the hitch, a height sensing proportioning valve, the duty cycle ratings of the power train to name a few. It's not about "Can this car get this weight moving" it's "can this car perform a safe emergency stop 9 hours into a 10 hour journey towing this weight?"
As little as 5 to 10% on the highway, not particularly significant.
See that's the funny thing about EVs. ICEVs get better fuel economy on the highway because the constant aerodynamic drag at cruising speed is less than all the braking you do in the city. EVs are the other way up, because of regenerative braking they get a lot of their energy back when braking, but you can't get aerodynamic drag back. And that's without the additional drag of a trailer.
They very much are, depending on what you're towing, most of your fuel used goes into overcoming aerodynamic drag. If you tow a load of gravel on a trailer, compared to a caravan of the same weight, the difference in fuel used can be double.
Towing something that's not very aerodynamic can easily double your fuel use, which means half the range or less in an EV.
I don’t think aerodynamics are particularly relevant to towing?
Aerodynamics are extremely relevant to towing. "Aging Wheels" on Youtube did a test and found that payload weight makes basically no difference at all, but a trailer with bad aerodynamics can cut an electric truck's range in half.
Yeah the electric pickup is such a no brainer for the US
Disagree. The truck market itself is a no brainer, but electric trucks have design challenges that electric sedans don't. Namely, aerodynamics, towing, and aerodynamics while towing. It is much harder to make an electric truck capable of doing "truck stuff" with a reasonable range and price compared to making an electric car.
Harder maybe but it's clearly doable. We have a number of options now. And it's not like they've had to make them hyper-aerodynamic or anything. Just took a little more advanced battery tech.
IIRC, according to Aging Wheels on YouTube, of all the electric trucks, only one (the Chevy Silvarado) actually manages to have decent range while towing.
Correct, but now consider how much time and money has been spent over the decades on making sure that "trucks can do truck stuff" for combustion vs. electric drives. "it's much harder" is true only in the context that thousands of years of engineering time have already been poured into diesel and gas trucks, and only a tiny fraction of that has yet been dedicated to electric. So it's not "much harder" it just "hasn't been funded yet at the level that the oil industry has provided combustion vehicles for nearly 100 years".
It's not a technology/research issue; it's an economics issue. Trucks simply need an absolutely huge battery pack to brute-force not only themselves but a boxy trailer through the air for hundreds of miles, and all but one of them don't actually have it (even at the very expensive prices they sell for).
Look up the curve of the density of energy storage for batteries the last 20-ish years and then honestly tell me this isn't a technology issue in the midst of being addressed.
It's not even actually a truck. It's a ute. Like the Hyundai Santa Cruz. It's a car (unibody) with a bed.
I don't dislike utes at all, and even have an old one I am restoring, but it is not a truck.
Let's be fair here. The doors weren't supposed to actually be used because the target market for the Swastikkkar was for people who wanted to would weld the doors shut, paint their cars orange, have confederate flags on the side and top, and then jump in and out of it through a window screaming "Yeehaw!"
No. That's not the market targeted by the Cybertruck. The yeehaw sister fucker demographic would rather eat their own face than drive an EV. They're the ones cutting holes in their beds to run 10 inch diameter exhaust stacks through them so they can prove how much damage they're doing to the environment.
No, the Cybertruck is for urban nazis. The tech bros who work in fields like IT or software development. They wear slacks to work. Nothing in their natural lives makes them feel like real men. Their hands are soft. They don't have the first clue what a lathe is for and they genuinely wonder why we have farms when food comes from grocery stores now. They hate blue collar men as beneath them...and yet they fetishize them. Elon Musk is chief among them, and he happens to own a car factory. Enter the Cybertruck, what a ketamine addled techbro huckster thinks a pickup is. It's a costume worn by males attempting to cosplay as men.
The design was meant to be controversial and it certainly got a lot of attention when it was first introduced. The reason that thing failed is that its performance was way worse than what was promised while costing a lot more.
From what I understand, it was never supposed to be a truck, it was supposed to be a tax write-off for businesses. That's also why it's stupid ugly and heavy, it has to be 500 or 600 lbs (I forget which) to get the write-off as a truck. The fact that everyone laughs when they see them was unexpected. I think they thought it would be loved by all, especially the businesses.
A new piece from Bloomberg makes the case, comparing the Tesla vehicle to the misfortunes of Ford's Edsel, which was first introduced in 1957 and discontinued just two years later. After spending years building up hype for the car, Ford predicted selling 200,000 units in its first year, but ended up selling less than a third of that.
That's comparable to expectations versus reality of the Cybertruck. In fact, the Cybertruck is actually doing worse in key ways. Tesla's annual sales target was 250,000 units, but it didn't even crack 40,000 sales in its first year. And like the Edsel, it's sold less with each successive year, with barely 7,100 registered in the US in 2026 so far, according to S&P Global Mobility data — despite Musk juicing those figures by selling Cybertrucks to his own companies.
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They have always reminded me of a trough urinal in a gay men's leather bar, especially the silver ones.
Are we talking about the lose metal ones you see at like national parks that sound like youre pissing into a metal drum? If so I agree.
Can't be the worst flop. The Cybertruck outsold the Ioniq 6 by roughly a 2:1 margin in the US. Both were introduced around the same time, and it sounds like Hyundai already pulled the 6 from the US market. But while the Cybertruck was a certified piece of crap, the Ioniq 6 was consistently rated at the top of available EV on the market. I guess sedans are pretty much DOA as a body style these days though.
Oh wait, did you forget that the Cybertrucks's #1 customer was SpaceX? Also, you are just plain wrong. Hyundai sold approximately 37,000 Ioniq 6's in just the US.
Tesla sold 20,237 Cybertrucks, but SpaceX bought exactly 1,279 of them. So the actual number would be 18,958.
18,958 is not 2x greater than 37,000.
Are you confusing Ioniq 5 with the 6? I doubt Hyundai sold 37,000 Ioniq 6s in the US throughout its entire production run, but Tesla sold 38,965 CTs in 2024 alone, and a little over 20K in 2025. I have seen this number on other sites as well. Hyundai reported percentage decline for the Ioniq 6, but I saw sliding numbers from 2023 to 2024 where they sold about 9000 cars per year down to only about 1200 in total for 2026 before they pulled out. The Ioniq 5 sells over 30K cars per year.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tesla-cybertruck-sales-elon-musk/
https://evseekers.com/hyundai-ev-sales-by-year/
That's a US-only perspective. The Ioniq 6 sold quite well in the EU while the the CT is US-only because of..well..it being what it is
While that may be true, I can't imagine any American article considering a perspective outside of the US. CT is available in Canada as well, and at least anecdotally, I see them just a little less often than Ioniq 6s. I bought a 6 a couple years ago and love it. Interestingly, I did not find the 5 as appealing, though it too had good bona fides as an EV.
I feel like to count it for a flop you have to account for total produced units as well as the sales. For example if a company produces 100,000 units and sells 99,000 of them those are solid numbers, but if a company produces 400,000 units and only sold 200,000 of those units that honestly a pretty shit sell rate even if they technically sold more.
For sure I think that matters. Total investment cost in developing it and manufacturing facilities as well too. At least the Ioniq 6 sells well elsewhere. It's more of a US flop, but I doubt they are thinking beyond their borders when it comes to worst automotive flop ever.
I suspect it would not have been a huge success, but it would have done significantly better if all the political BS hadn't been involved. Whatever though, it's in the history books now.
Politics aside it would have done significantly better if the pricing they had during its announcement event was anything close to the pricing it had at release. They announced it at $39.9k, $49.9k, and $69.9k for the RWD, AWD, and Cyberbeast. The RWD didn’t really ever happen, at least not as announced. They did release a RWD but it was different and much more expensive. They pulled it from market after ~5 months. The AWD and Cyberbeast actually released at $69.9k and $99.9k. Needless to say many people cancelled their preorders.
Even if Musk had remained entirely apolitical, I can't imagine the Cyber Truck doing much better without also doing something to address the high profile safety issues with the car and the insane number of recalls issued for it. Even if it had managed to get off to a stronger start, I would still expect people to abandon it in droves once they realized it was an overpriced deathtrap that could crap out on them and leave them stranded at any time.
I had some weirdo conservative explain that he would have gotten one but he was scared some "trans thug" would single him out for retribution if he drove one - it's incredible, musk has finally united both sides of US politics with this truck; Nobody wants to be seen in one of these things.
I think I have a pretty good idea of what their porn history search looks like
Beating out the Edsel for worst automotive flop is quite a feat.
Musk = POS Nazi.
I actuaally like the look of the cybertruck. Probably just because it is something different. Most cars eesm to be nearly all the same these days. That said, everything about the cyber truck besides the look is terrible. Soo many rushed choices... and of course there is Elon. I like that he does things regular companies wouldn't. But how he does them is generally horrible. And of course, he is horrible too.
I love cars that are different but the cybertruck just ain't it. When they announced it the proportions worked pretty well and I'd say looked pretty good, but then they released the production model and it lost any good looks it had because of those proportions. Then it came out that the frame is aluminum, and they're terrible at anything a truck should be able to do (except for drive in a straight line fast).
This is coming from a guy that actually likes how the Pontiac Aztek looks (I still don't understand why people think it's so ugly) and would probably drive a Fiat Multipla!
For as long as I live I'll never understand how people could see that unveiling where the doofuses on stage hurl a big metal ball at the "bulletproof" glass and watch it crack during the live demo, and still think "Yeah I'll pre-order one of those".
Manchildren, fascist sympathizers, and deeply unserious or delusional people drive these cars. There is no "I bought it before I knew how crazy Elon was."
And this is why I flip them off every single time they pass by. Every single time. No exceptions.
Fuck Nazi's, man.
You are overestimating how many people care about Elon since you are here on Lemmy where everyone cares deeply about it, seemingly.
Sure, but take Elon out of it. How do you not stop and think about it if the demo of a feature fails that badly?
The Bronco had massive failures as soon as people started getting their hands on them. Sales went crazy at first but then crashed through the floor. There's a Ford dealer across from my work that has like 85 of them on the lot and they barely sell now.
I love it when I get to see a cybertruck. No matter the time of day, it lifts my spirit when I burst out laughing at seeing the stupidest vehicle ever, and the idiot in the driver’s seat. Like, this makes the Toyota FJ Cruiser look like a 911. That in itself is an amazing feat.
The Fj is amazing. It’s a true off-roader; unlike the can-can-cyberduck
How many windshields are you at now?
After 16 years of daily driving I had to replace it 2 times due to large stones from a truck on a highway in front of me. Each time the insurance covered it. The car has been rock solid compared to others in the same price range in the same region.
Looks like we found the one FJ fan, and on Lemmy no less!
Hey now, make that TWO fans! Before I got my current car I wanted to get an FJ Cruiser but they were all out of my price range ($0.05)
It seems that I’ve stumbled upon some sort of sleeper cell…
The comment currently has 7 people who agree and I'm one of them.
😁👍👋
🥰
If Breaking Bad came on the air now, Walter White would be driving the SwastitruKKK instead of the Aztek, which was the ugliest vehicle of all time, at the time.
I always figured there was an untold backstory of WW getting that Aztek, in which he goes into the dealership, and they instantly pegged him as malleable, so they pressured him into the fugliest vehicle on the lot, that NOBODY else would even look at. But he was too weak to resist the sales pitch, so he drove home in the horrible Aztek.
I think this would be the car to be replaced by the cybertruck:
In terms of obnoxiousness and poor taste (plus the humvee branding and quasi militaristic styling during the Iraq invasion), the H2 evoked similar reactions as well
I'd say ugliest of all time went to another car that was featured on Breaking Bad: the PT Cruiser, appropriately used as a car gift that causes insult rather than happiness.
Though I'd bet the actual backstory to WW's Aztek is Pontiac paid them a bunch of money to use it in the hopes that it would boost sales if the show became popular.
The PT Cruiser is okay, but the Prowler was better.
My PWT aunt's favorite car was the pt cruiser. She was over the moon when she got one.
I always assumed he had the Aztek because they didn't have much money and it was a cheap used car.
The Aztek may be ugly, but at least it's functional and practical, at least for the purpose it's built for.
It may be ugly, but at least it's poorly built, unreliable and handles like a sack of meat.
Huh almost sounds like a Jeep. Maybe I'd like to drive an Aztek.
It had a tent as a back gate option. Loved that car.
Wiring harness kept melting itself though, leading to a brake failure on the way back to the dealership.
Traded it for a Mercury Mountaineer.
The Aztek is awesome!
Are we talking about the same vehicle!?
Yeah the only problem with that thing was it had to much 2000s for anyone to handle. Like they took every aspect of y2k and just did it. I
It's still not an anachronism like the cybertruck.
The cybertruck looks like a concept car an autistic kid in the 80's would've drawn and dreamt of creating one day.
I can't image why.
It looked like somebody started creating a custom car in a ps1 racing game and then gave up before even choosing a colour
He reduced the number of polygons while in a k hole, had a Beavis and Butthead laugh and said this is cool, hehe let's make it.
It's because Elon is an autistic kid from the 80s...
This is just insulting to people with autism
When Gilligan needed his main character in Breaking Bad to look like a life failure, he stuck him in an Aztec.
I feel seen.
It comes in mustard yellow too!!??
Either that or a Nissan Juke
Nissan Murano cabriolet
It is the perfect car for old retirees because it’s a convertible and easy to get into and out of you know.
I think that was precisely their target market with this and I'm sure Florida and Arizona are full of them. They really are hideous though, much more in person.
Couldn't happen to an uglier, more stupid car.
It looks like something a 6 year old designed on a 1980s PC.
I dunno man, I’m pretty sure as a 6 year old I knew how to use the curve / circle tool in DeluxePaint on my Amiga.
You just know this is the one car that Elon designed personally, like that episode of the Simpsons where Homer bankrupts his brothers car company, only real life doesn't actually punish idiocy.
I would usually give a lot of credit to someone trying something different, but I'd drive a 1971 Ford Pinto before I ever intentionally get within photographable proximity to a Cybertruck.
Super gluing pieces onto the vehicle is certainly something different. But I think there's something different should have a reason behind it. XD
The danger of the Pinto was exaggerated. Do a web search for the You're Wrong About episode on the Pinto. The investigative reporting on the Pinto's safety flaw used a demonstration rigged to explode. Other subcompact cars had a similar dangling fuel tank, and the number of actual Pinto explosions in the field was actually rarer than those of its competitors.
And you'd be safer for it.
When the cybertruck was first announced, I actually appreciated how different it looked, but its performance and association to Musk has entirely ruined any hope of me ever liking a low-poly vehicle ever again.
Yeah, same here. I usually like weird looking forms for ordinary objects. The cybertruck counts.
Even disregarding the emotional association to Musk, which is nigh impossible, the engineering of the car makes it suck to hell, because that's all Musk's decision he forced.
I thought it would look unique in a geeky way. Instead it looks unique in a Nazi way. That's not my vibe. Killed my enthusiasm for owning something that I knew most people would hate. Also costing twice as much and being a piece of shit.
I think it has plenty of reasons to not like it that are completely non political. The other stuff is just icing on the cake.
I know this sounds really pathetic to say out loud now that it's a confirmed flop, but I never liked the look.
I didn't really care about the look. Then I saw one in the flesh in a car show. The thing just looked strange up close. It was cordoned off too unlike the hundreds of other cars there. I guess they didn't want people touching it because lots of greasy fingers and stainless steel body don't mix well.
it never had the makings of a varsity athlete
I dunno, the original Lotus esprit is still pretty cool in my book
All of the wedge cars are cool ... Triumph TR7, Fiat X1-9, 1970s exotica and kit cars.
So many beautiful, sexy, impractical vehicles *sigh*
I saw a concept car and expected to see a radically different version on the road. As a design study, I thought it had potential.
Indeed.
Still shocking he never hired a designer. Even an idiot fraud like Elizabeth Holmes knew to do that.
It looks like my drawing of a car as a 4 year old brought to reality
That's quite exactly what they were going for actually. Lo-res graphic to represent hi-tech. Somewhat like military camo is now pixelated for no practical reason.
Just because you don't know why digital camouflage exists doesn't mean it has no practical purpose.
Very interesting, but after reading, it specifically states that it's the multi scaling that has a function on the battlefield, which can be implemented through all shapes basically.
The 'digital' (square) patterning is most certainly either cost saving measures, fashion, or both.
"The pixellated style, however, simplifies design and eases printing on fabric, compared to traditional patterns. While digital patterns are becoming widespread, critics maintain that the pixellated look is a question of fashion rather than function.[7]"
Now I'm aware you just stated that 'it had a practical purpose' but your tone and framing suggests to me something other than 'its easier and cheaper to manufacture'.
Simplified design and easier printing sounds like a very practical purpose.
At the cost of drip? Very much not worth.
Drip or drown, baby 😎
That paragraph seems to contradict itself. "ease of printing" is a functional concern, even if it doesn't affect the camo while in use.
nah, you're totally off topic. I was responding to looks. sorry for distracting you away from looks by mentioning practicality. on practicality, the reason for the cybertruck panels is they're stainless steel. on looks, you didn't reply. since you avoided that topic, i suspect you're another sheep who jumped on the "ugly" bandwagon and aren't able to say much more than "ugly ugly ugly". no interest.
I've been having the same conversation with my kids for weeks now.
"Daddy, look, it's that car you hate."
"Daddy, we saw that car you hate."
"Daddy, that car you hate just drove by."
Finally today I was like, "Can you please stop calling it that? It's not that I hate it. It's just poorly made. And it looks like it was designed by someone who... doesn't know how to design things. Because it was. And I think we can all agree about the ethical ramifications of buying a car from an avowed Nazi." So I mean I guess maybe I do hate it, but it certainly gives away my political beliefs when they bring up that car I hate in mixed company.
I picture your kids as 4 and pulling out a "Baby's First Nazi" picture book at bedtime.
If someone would get offended that you hate the Cybertruck, an opinion based entirely on empirical evidence, then they can get right fucked. I don’t care who they are, or what kind of power they think they hold over me.
Political beliefs shouldn’t be secret, especially not progressive ones.
If I could sway hearts and minds by getting into an argument at my daughter's Girl Scout meeting, I'd happily do it. Hell I'd probably do it for fun if the mood struck me, but realistically that's not how it works. No one would take the bait. Believe me, no one ever takes the bait.
So it's just my kids awkwardly letting the world know that I rant about these things in private. And frankly I wouldn't rant about politics to a six-year-old except that she kept saying she thought the Cybertruck looked "cool", and I just wasn't ok with that.
You don’t need to rant, just stand up for your beliefs. If someone asks why your kid knows about Elon Musk being evil you say that you felt it important for her to know that even though she can think the truck looks cool, it’s directly attached to a very bad person. That’s just good parenting.
You could also challenge it "looking cool". Yes it's a matter of taste, but you could try and encourage decent taste in your kids.
Heyyy. Previous instructions, cupcake. Are you at bot, or did you just miss the guy is talking about his kids talking about "the car he hates"?
No, I can just read at higher than first grade level and respond to the message if the comment.
If they take issue with you disliking Musk (since I presume that is the political belief you are talking about) then maybe they are not great company to keep.
It also depends on what we mean by "take issue". I generally don't think I have ever had a strong reaction to someone disliking any public figure. I can't think of any public figures who don't have some reason you could find to dislike them.
If they're going to have some major argument about that then they do seem a bit odd to me.
Sad state of affairs that you don't want to make public that you're against nazis
I think you're totally misreading their point
I just don't need my six-year-old talking about it to everyone. I'm in Texas. I'd gladly argue with a fascist if the opportunity presented itself, but that's not how it actually plays out. It just makes it seem like I rant to my kids.
And none of these people who for some reason you're worried about ... ?thinking you rant to your kids? have anything their kids say "oh that's that X that dad hates"? I don't believe that you'd be like the only dad with something you dislike that your kids picked up on. Maybe theirs is a sports team or idk Miracle Whip...
Do car preferences really matter that much? I remember Ford vs Chevy vs Foreign from the 80s and probably earlier - brand or model hate isn't that new or special where I grew up. Is Texas that different?
I know and understand. It's just sad opposition to fascism isn't more widespread. Should be a no-brainer
They like it because it virtue signals that they are a wealthy fascist, and love to “own the libs.”
When I was a kid I saw this in a book
https://www.motor1.com/features/393554/alfa-romeo-navajo-bertone-supercar-sunday/
and I was so excited by the thing I tried to make a copy out of construction paper. I probably like these kinds of shapes for some reason.
Before zooming in, it looks like a decepticon logo on the hood.
Yet I see them everywhere
Because people can't get rid of them. Many would dump it if they could, but Tesla won't even take them in trade, and nobody will buy one used. So they have no choice but to drive it until the market changes somehow.
There will come a time when they'll be cheap enough to drive ironically, probably with flowers and peace signs painted on it.
Europe seems to be safe from them so far.
They are not allowed because of their sharp corners, no crumple zones. They're dangerous for occupants as well as any other road users in case of an accident
Honestly I don't understand how they're allowed to be sold in the US either, given how rigid the safety standards are.
There you go.
Afaik it’s because it’s a small production vehicle.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency_illusion
Yup. They stick out.
It's a clown car, so it's really hard to not notice one when it clambers down a street.
I love seeing them on the side of the road, either disabled or in wrecks. I laugh every time.
It took 68 years but someone finally beat out edsle as the worst automotive failure, I'm just glad it was Elon Muppet.
reads the wikipedia article
double checks to make sure I'm not on the cybertruck article
Had someone been hyping you?
I prefer to call him Elmo Musk but Elon Muppet is pretty good too.
My favorite is Elongated Muskrat.
I prefer Melon Husk.
Really? I see chuds driving them all over my town unfortunately. Admittedly far less popular than other Tesla vehicles though which are absolutely everywhere here in CA. Seems like most people forgot Musk is a nazi already.
Please remind them by flipping off every Cybertruck driver you see.
I see them every so often in Seattle. I always give them a disapproving look and a big thumbs down, I’ve found that pisses people off more than a middle finger.
I drew a swastika in the dust on the hood of one once and gave the finger to the cameras. I have little hope that the owner was persuaded in the slightest. Also, my nephews yell out "Lego car!" when they see one.
Californian here.
I'll never forget.
Swasticars are driven by Nazi's.
A realisation I’ve had is that if everyone from this era went back in time to the 1930’s there’d be a lot of investing into the Nazi stock market for those stonks!
Genocide, war crimes and general harm towards humanity don’t mean much to a lot of people when personal gains or convenience are available.
I point and laugh when I see one and say "look at the fucking idiot." They love that.
It's even better when you do it pure organically, I was bashing a model y with some friends, no clue the owner was showing back up, "I like the concept of electric vehicles, however Tesla's are one of worse options you could go for, plus they look like obese Porsches." Ohh hey "I don't like your car"
Those chuds bought early into the idea they would be renting out their trucks at night using self driving and make a profit.
That’s really bad. I feel like some of those cars with only three wheels set a pretty high bar.
Seeing this reminded me of Mr Bean episodes where that three wheeled car is always getting shit on.
Edit - this one -
Lol there were a lot of those three wheelers around when I was a kid. They seemed pretty okay for city driving, wouldn't have wanted to try going at any speed in one tho. In fact, someone I know has most of one, says he's gonna restore it but it's been under a tarp for years so. . .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliant_Robin
The three wheels and the fibreglass construction meant that it was light enough to count as a tricycle, so that you could drive one on a motorcycle license rather than a full driving license. Plus they sip quite gently at the petrol by the standards of the 1970s. You still saw a few on the roads when I was growing up in the 80s, but it's been a long time.
The thought of doing 85 mph in one of them is enough to make me fill my trousers, though. Couldn't pay me enough.
Nah. The people that are bought them are though.
How you fuck up making a truck so badly?
Yeah the electric pickup is such a no brainer for the US market and it was one of the first.
But what if it was horribly ugly and made everyone hate you? Surely it will sell even better then!
An electric pickup isn't a no-brainer for the US market. It's a big-brainer.
Most EVs are shaped like running shoes for aerodynamics. Pickup trucks are big air smacking slabs. Larger pickup trucks advertise towing capacity as a major feature, EVs are bad at towing, again because of aerodynamics. The additional batteries and such required to make an EV pickup work are large, heavy and expensive. I think the technology needs to cook a bit before we get there.
Now on the compact pickup truck front...those are basically extinct. The Slate is almost a good attempt, the problem is it's almost the anti-cybertruck. The Cybertruck is what you get when a billionaire nazi notices how thoroughly the drugs have emptied his scrotum. It's the costume a truly awful male wears to cosplay as a man. The Slate is almost the equal and opposite, it's what r/fuckcars thinks of when they start a sentence with "Can't you just make do with..." A 20 year old S10 kicks the Slate's ass in every way because the Slate is designed mostly to play dress-up like a barbie doll. They're taking pre-orders but they won't show you where the tie down points in the bed are.
Gas trucks suck fuel when towing too. It's the nature of the task. The question mostly imo is - are you towing long distances? (well are you going long distances is a big EV question generally). If you're towing stuff back from the hardware store then EV is fine for towing. If you're doing some sort of small hauling job going hundreds of miles then not so much.
Where I end up is - how often generally are you towing? If it's 2x a year or less - rent a truck and otherwise save craptons of money. I know - I have wasted 10k splitting a 2003 f250 with my sister to get a tractor home "and we would need to tow stuff semi regularly and renting from Enterprise was a PITA". Yea sure - we used it for towing twice. Finally managed to sell it.
I think we tow more on a 8x10 landscape trailer for bringing lumber home etc and tow with my Outback and now Pilot than we tow with the 1500 we have for "bigger stuff".
Though maybe that's because we sort of stopped going to farm auctions...
The folks who really care about tow ratings and range are those who have boats or campers. Which means they do road trips while towing. Do you want to tow a camper on a road trip in a rented vehicle?
Yes, gas trucks also suffer poorer fuel economy when towing. It's less of a practical problem because it means more 10 minute fuel stops. With an EV, it means more 3 hour fuel stops. It's fairly easy to equip a gas truck with a larger or additional fuel tank. My S10's fuel tank is on the left side of the bed; it would be fairly trivial to mount another tank on the right side, or, a Blazer's fuel tank isn't that hard to install behind the axle where the pickup hangs its spare tire. Doubling or tripling a pickup truck's range is something a guy can do at his house. It's functionally impossible with an EV.
Speaking as a mod of !fuckcars and the owner of a 30-year-old Ford Ranger, I want a Slate truck and I don't think my current truck would be able to kick its ass. (Well, aside from off-roading, since the Slate doesn't have a 4x4 version yet. And, uh, ease of refueling in the wilderness. Hmm.)
Okay, so maybe it wouldn't be an upgrade in all ways, but IMO those tradeoffs are still worth it because the lack of telemetry and other enshittification means it's the first modern mass-market electric car (of any type, truck or otherwise) I'll be willing to own.
My S10 outranges a Slate by over 50%, refuels from empty to full in less than five minutes, seats 4, has a 6 foot bed, tows up to 7600 pounds...a Slate is a massive step back in a lot of ways.
My Ranger seats 3 in a pinch and is rated to tow 1600 pounds (2.3L I4, regular cab, manual, 4x4) so you can see how my perspective is a little different.
If the Slate had a 6 foot bed, VTL capability, and a little more range I'd be really into it. I'm a woodworker, hauling plywood and lumber with a 5 foot bed doesn't sound fun.
I don't know enough about physics or cars to really rebut you but this doesn't seem plausible to me.
I don't think aerodynamics are particularly relevant to towing? Prime movers (tractor trailers?) are about the least aerodynamic vehicle there is but they regularly tow more than 100 tonnes at highway speed.
If I had to guess I'd suggest the primary problem is the relationship between system weight of the vehicle and load, battery capacity, and the battery's weight. As in, if you want to be able to cart 1 ton for 200km then the additional battery requirement is another 300kg so that's really only an extra 700kg so you need more battery and heavier frame and so on.
Another problem I suppose, and I emphasize that this is supposition, is optimising motors for both torque and speed. The torque required to break inertia with lots of weight in sandy or muddy terrain.
The maximum weight for a tractor-trailer rig in the United States is 80,000 pounds, 40 short tons or 36.36 metric tons.
A tractor-trailer rig is surprisingly streamlined. The cab is shaped and sized for the front of the trailer to ride closely in its wake, often with fairings that reach as close to the trailer as practicable. Sure it's a brick, but it's ONE brick:
A pickup truck towing a trailer isn't anywhere near that slick, even with a gooseneck trailer, the trailer is often taller and wider than the cab. It's a brick, attached to another, larger brick being pulled through the turbulent disturbed air from the first brick:
In terms of torque, EVs have a significant advantage. Electric motors produce a lot more torque at low to zero RPM than internal combustion engines do. Limited slip differentials or all-wheel drive are solved problems.
The additional energy required to accelerate the additional weight up to speed isn't that much of a problem as an EV will get that back with regenerative braking. Well, some of it. Most trailers have brakes of their own that do help with braking distance but are there mostly to keep the hitch under tension to prevent jackknifing. An ICEV figures on losing all of that energy to friction braking, a BEV plans on recovering some of it. An electric pickup carrying 1000 pounds in the bed will be more efficient than one pulling a 1000 pound trailer, in most cases.
I'm not sure what you're getting at with this. Here in Australia road trains haul 90 metric tons of grain and fertilizer all the time, that doesn't include the weight of the trailers.
Regardless, I'm not quite sure what you're trying to illustrate - your example of a "streamlined vehicle" undoubtedly consumes a lot more diesel than your example of a vehicle which is not streamlined. Isn't that antithetical?
Yes, but a "truck" with a 4 ton towing capacity obviously needs motors with more torque than those on a tesla.
As little as 5 to 10% on the highway, not particularly significant. Installing regenerative brakes on a trailer is a lot of additional cost and complexity.
In the United States, if you need more than about 20 tons of freight moved, you use the railroad not the highway. "Road trains" aren't a thing here.
In absolute terms, yes. A semi truck consumes more fuel than a pickup truck. So does a diesel locomotive. The point is the difference in aerodynamic drag with and without the trailer.
Aerodynamically, a semi truck is the same shape with and without a trailer. Somewhat streamlined nose, flat sides, flat rear. With the trailer attached, that flat rear is just 50 feet further away. A semi truck without a trailer will make better fuel economy because it doesn't have to accelerate the additional weight or overcome the friction in the additional axles, but the cab has already taken most of the aerodynamic punishment it can.
With a non-streamlined pickup truck, the additional wheel friction and acceleration energy are factors, but you're also functionally doing this:
So a pickup truck sees a much bigger punishment to fuel economy when you hitch up a trailer than a semi does.
Not necessarily. My S10's 4.3L V6 engine makes 200 horsepower and 200 foot pounds of torque. It's rated to tow 7600 pounds, with the addition of a transmission cooler. A Tesla Model Y is rated at 397 horsepower and 389 foot pounds of torque, it is rated to tow 3500 pounds. A lot more factors than horsepower and torque go into a tow rating. The strength of the frame at the hitch, a height sensing proportioning valve, the duty cycle ratings of the power train to name a few. It's not about "Can this car get this weight moving" it's "can this car perform a safe emergency stop 9 hours into a 10 hour journey towing this weight?"
See that's the funny thing about EVs. ICEVs get better fuel economy on the highway because the constant aerodynamic drag at cruising speed is less than all the braking you do in the city. EVs are the other way up, because of regenerative braking they get a lot of their energy back when braking, but you can't get aerodynamic drag back. And that's without the additional drag of a trailer.
They very much are, depending on what you're towing, most of your fuel used goes into overcoming aerodynamic drag. If you tow a load of gravel on a trailer, compared to a caravan of the same weight, the difference in fuel used can be double.
Towing something that's not very aerodynamic can easily double your fuel use, which means half the range or less in an EV.
Aerodynamics are extremely relevant to towing. "Aging Wheels" on Youtube did a test and found that payload weight makes basically no difference at all, but a trailer with bad aerodynamics can cut an electric truck's range in half.
Disagree. The truck market itself is a no brainer, but electric trucks have design challenges that electric sedans don't. Namely, aerodynamics, towing, and aerodynamics while towing. It is much harder to make an electric truck capable of doing "truck stuff" with a reasonable range and price compared to making an electric car.
Harder maybe but it's clearly doable. We have a number of options now. And it's not like they've had to make them hyper-aerodynamic or anything. Just took a little more advanced battery tech.
IIRC, according to Aging Wheels on YouTube, of all the electric trucks, only one (the Chevy Silvarado) actually manages to have decent range while towing.
Think it might've been in this video? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmKf8smvGsA
I believe Ford has the f150 lightning, an ev version. I don't know how it's been doing though.
The all electric version has been cancelled in favor of a hybrid design, but they claim the hybrid has a 700 mile range
https://www.npr.org/2025/12/15/nx-s1-5645147/ford-discontinues-all-electric-f-150-lightning
Thanks for the update
Correct, but now consider how much time and money has been spent over the decades on making sure that "trucks can do truck stuff" for combustion vs. electric drives. "it's much harder" is true only in the context that thousands of years of engineering time have already been poured into diesel and gas trucks, and only a tiny fraction of that has yet been dedicated to electric. So it's not "much harder" it just "hasn't been funded yet at the level that the oil industry has provided combustion vehicles for nearly 100 years".
It's not a technology/research issue; it's an economics issue. Trucks simply need an absolutely huge battery pack to brute-force not only themselves but a boxy trailer through the air for hundreds of miles, and all but one of them don't actually have it (even at the very expensive prices they sell for).
Look up the curve of the density of energy storage for batteries the last 20-ish years and then honestly tell me this isn't a technology issue in the midst of being addressed.
Nazi
It's not even actually a truck. It's a ute. Like the Hyundai Santa Cruz. It's a car (unibody) with a bed.
I don't dislike utes at all, and even have an old one I am restoring, but it is not a truck.
They couldn't even get the doors right. The doors.
Let's be fair here. The doors weren't supposed to actually be used because the target market for the Swastikkkar was for people who wanted to would weld the doors shut, paint their cars orange, have confederate flags on the side and top, and then jump in and out of it through a window screaming "Yeehaw!"
No. That's not the market targeted by the Cybertruck. The yeehaw sister fucker demographic would rather eat their own face than drive an EV. They're the ones cutting holes in their beds to run 10 inch diameter exhaust stacks through them so they can prove how much damage they're doing to the environment.
No, the Cybertruck is for urban nazis. The tech bros who work in fields like IT or software development. They wear slacks to work. Nothing in their natural lives makes them feel like real men. Their hands are soft. They don't have the first clue what a lathe is for and they genuinely wonder why we have farms when food comes from grocery stores now. They hate blue collar men as beneath them...and yet they fetishize them. Elon Musk is chief among them, and he happens to own a car factory. Enter the Cybertruck, what a ketamine addled techbro huckster thinks a pickup is. It's a costume worn by males attempting to cosplay as men.
Now if the world were only truly a meritocracy.
Only a time travel movie can save it.
I still think it looks awesome, but as a toy, you know?
The one good use I’ve seen for it is as a promo vehicle for a sneaker shop
No.
I can certainly understand, it has an abstract, minimalist appeal - however, its safety or its basic features aren't as appealing.
Oh I mean as a toy, like in a plastic case with all the other Matchbox cars I had as a kid.
Or as some kind of
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Trak
A terrible mistake and a atrociously bad car
Even worse than the Edsel? Nice!
And the Pinto! To be fair, those only blew up if you rear-ended them. The cybertruck will explode if it gets a little wet.
The design was meant to be controversial and it certainly got a lot of attention when it was first introduced. The reason that thing failed is that its performance was way worse than what was promised while costing a lot more.
Who would have thought a three year olds drawing of a car would have not resonated with the masses.
A friend of mine called it the modern Edsel when it first came out
More bloodthirsty than the Pinto too.
Why does anyone think that is still news?
lol.
lmfao even.
Should have included a heads up display
From what I understand, it was never supposed to be a truck, it was supposed to be a tax write-off for businesses. That's also why it's stupid ugly and heavy, it has to be 500 or 600 lbs (I forget which) to get the write-off as a truck. The fact that everyone laughs when they see them was unexpected. I think they thought it would be loved by all, especially the businesses.
I think you forgot a zero, right?
Rear-Wheel Drive (Single Motor): 6,118 lbs (2,775 kg)
All-Wheel Drive (Dual Motor): 6,634 to 6,669 lbs (3,009 to 3,025 kg)
Cyberbeast (Tri-Motor): 6,863 to 6,898 lbs (3,113 to 3,129 kg)
Yep, you're correct, my bad
Yep, forgot a zero, lol
6,000, not 600. 600 would be a very light vehicle indeed. Even the Reliant Robin is about 970. The Smart Fortwo is at least 1,800.
Or it has to have certain offroading features.
https://www.autoblog.com/features/everything-is-an-suv-today-because-of-this-fuel-economy-loophole
The IRS gives business tax deductions for vehicles. Under 6000lbs it's $12k, over 6000 is $31k
Also the rest of the theory is as inaccurate as the weight figure.