Why do people have issues with OnlyFans Models and Porn Stars.
I understand that some of the criticism comes from conservatives but the sentiment seems to extend far beyond thst. Of course, I understand it when it's forced or when someone only does it to survive against their will. But if people genuinely want to do it, why do people hate on them?
my issue...
they are just ads with tits. (yes, I'm being blunt). they come into social settings and post images or whatever, and it's just yo... you with the penis. give me money because I have tits.
overall, I have no issue with the site. but FFS .. STAY ON THAT SITE. don't come here and advertise your ass cheese. its annoying and the majority dgaf.
this applies to onlyfans because pornstars... well they don't do that shit. they keep their crap to normal ads (which still suck) and their sites. I have respect for pornstars, I have no respect for onlyfans 'gimmie money' clowns
Apparently one of the reasons for advertising off-site is because OF does not have an on-site discovery mechanism. So there really aren't other options. Not the fault of the performers.
Huh. I would have guessed that they would try to get consumers to subscribe to as many providers as possible and constantly suggest new ones (social media style)
Ass cheese? Link?
Bro has failed to consider male sex work, or sex work not aimed at people with penises.
In all seriousness this is giving big "I'm OK with gays but can they just not shove it in my face?" energy. Reevaluate how your phrase this argument.
tell me you hate women without telling me you hate women
re-reading what you actually replied too.
shut up, you're an absolute twat
One modern issue is that sites like OnlyFans has caused is a unique type of spam as various models spam in a lot of places in order to build their audience.
I only have a problem with sex work if people feel like they have to do it to make ends meet, or if they are being coerced into it. The latter being a big problem in the porn industry.
The first is a form of coercion as well.
Who do you know that goes to work for fun, and not to make ends meet?
No one
I have at least 4 coworkers who disprove this.
I work with several such people in my department. I prefer not to reveal much information about my work but I'll just say it's with electronics.
Three of them are retired and one of them works for us in his spare time when he's not traveling across the country for his "main" job. The later one offered to do the work for free because all he really wanted out of the job was to learn how the work is done and how he can do the same work for his retired father.
Of the other three one recently had a second "retirement" because he no longer had the spare time and now cares for his wife full time. Another one recently had an argument with management because he wasn't logging all of his hours on the job while working from home and would regularly do additional work that he wasn't being paid for.
I've also had one prior side gig type of job where I know some people did it for fun while getting some cash on the side in the entertainment industry and another job with a similar situation in sports.
I'm not going to pretend much of this is very normal by current standards and I'm certain the majority of people involved were also motivated by having at least an additional source of income, but there absolutely are people who even within our current economic system go to work for the fun of it. But the only ones I've ever met who do it are people who no longer need to worry about making ends meet.
All work is done through coercition Some coercition are worst than other, but the all the worst one are not only in sex works. Fighting for emancipation is done by the workers themselves, not aqainst them
Other people do a lot of shit to make ends meet.
Hazardous backbreaking work and being treated like shit in a minimum wage job.
And you have a problem with people who have the choice to be their own boss and work on their own terms?
So you're basically saying you're against it.
You can't do it if you're coerced, and not by your own choice to make money.
Do you also have a problem with 99% of people who work to make ends meet, not for fun.
I'm against the conditions that force people into doing any work that they don't want to do. I'm mentioning sex work because the topic of this post is sex work and not construction or janitorial work.
No, that's only one reason you mentioned.
You also said you are against it "to make ends meet".
If they're not coerced, a valid reason to be against it, then it's nobody's business how they choose to get their money.
If they choose sex work over janitorial or whatever shit work it's their right and there's nothing wrong with it.
I don't really know what you're taking issue with because I agree
OK
Whats going on??? There's obviously a difference between a cashier or warehouse worker being forced into their labour than a sex worker forced to sell intimate access to their body?? "Their own boss" what kind of liberalism is this???? This just flattens all the discourse around "sex work as work" into "wow they just perform a service like my mechanic it's literally the same thing!" Fuck off with that bullshit.
I'm just gonna quote some marx here for all you people that think all labor is equally good and everyone just chooses freely what they want to do
LOL the moral police got triggered hard I see.
Yeah being against the commodification of womens bodies and nonconsensual sex is just being the moral police 🤮
Woman can do what they want, cry about it repressed biblethumper.
yeah I'm sure they're really stoked to be fueling your goonsessions. disgusting. fucking libs start frothing everytime someone dares call out the oppression required to maintain their treatlerite life.
I feast on your tears little frustrated nasty man
Nah, they're right about this one and you're wrong.
If you don't feel the same way about fast food workers, convenience store clerks, and baristas, your problem isn't with the exploitation, it's with the sex.
people think it's easy money and get jealous
and people like that never realize just how much work actually goes into it (speaking from personal experience here)
This, it’s purely moralistic fart sniffing. That and folks who can’t control themselves and blame the performers for being too tempting.
This is probably a hot take, but it's because society has this weird aversion to sex even though it's necessary for us to continue existing. This aversion extends to sex work in general and is also the reason why the field has so many problems.
I’m no prude, but I also don’t think a lot of porn actors really want to be doing what they are doing. There is a lot of manipulation, drugging, exploitation, and straight up criminal activity that a large porn industry begets. But if you regulate it, if you protect sex workers, if you disallow access for younger people (I’m not for age verification, I’m saying parent/guardian intervention), if you allow the actors to have agency and full authority over their own work, then cool. I think there needs to be a lot more study and subsequent awareness what early access to pornography does to a young mind. I truly believe that porn is responsible for the increase in vociferous misogyny we are seeing with young men, enabled by the manosphere, which is just chock-full of sex predators and straight up pedophiles. To start to even have these discussions though, the taboo around sex needs to be widely removed.
I've always been curious about the effects on minors as well, especially with a country like Japan where sex is much more widely accepted and pornography is just out on display in some stores. From what I've heard, Japan has always had the mentality that porn would be either unappealing to minors or, specifically for games, would be to difficult for them to actually play because they'd have trouble reading the text. I know that Japan has done studies on other porn related topics, so maybe they have in the past and were able to come to this conclusion.
I'd be curious to see the stats, but I'd be shocked if this hasn't gotten much better since like the 70s-90s. For one, OF does allow for freelance work. Also, I've seen more and more professional porn outfits that are created/run by women.
Because christianity taught them that sex is bad.
Sex is still seen as a Taboo. It's 2026 guys, come on!
You say that, but outside of Europe, I'm fairly sure much of society is getting less permissive since the 60s.
It can only get worse!
They don’t. Generally, nobody cares. The few that do are just so damn loud you'd think there was a lot of them.
ITT: misogyny
Because most cultures have been heavily influenced by cultures descended from the bronze age sheep fuckers who came up with the idea of virginity as a way of ensuring paternity and maximizing the price they could charge for selling their preteen daughters to old men.
american puratism has infected the world.
Apologies if i'm wrong, isn't it puritanism
Reducing people to objects is generally bad.
Only fans also promote sexualization of girls/teens.
It's well established in social research that the patriarchy uses sexual objectification of women to help keep them reduced as second class citizens.
It helps promote the idea that "women want to be sexually assaulted and they like sexual harassment".
Taking blame from the predators.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objectification
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-objectification
Additionally. Turning intimacy and affection into something to be sold or bought devalues this aspect of human connection.
https://www.thorn.org/research/library/commodified-online-sexual-interactions/
Consent and Commodification: Objections to the Market for Sex Work https://pressbooks.lib.vt.edu/pper/chapter/article-4/
I personally think sex work should be decriminalized for the prostitute but not the johns.
Sex work is not something people do because its a choice but out of need for finances.
Meaning it's a form of coercion and exploitation.
You could argue most work/labor is that. It is. I won't say its not.
But sex work perpetuates harm more (physical, mental and promotes misogyny in our society) and specifically harms women the most. Though it harms anyone working in that industry.
This may be true in many or most cases but I’ve met sex workers who like their job and want to keep doing it because it’s an easy and fun way to make a lot of money.
Easy money. So finances?
Self objectification is also a problem in our society.
Do you remember how women athletes used to say all the time how it was empowering to be naked in the swimsuit sports illustrated magazine.
?
Our culture has convinced women that their greatest value is being sexy and getting sexual attention and unfortunately a lot of younger women believe this.
They don't realize that this mindset and acceptance of these values promote the very system that harms them and others.
Easier money than doing other work. They could make ends meet other ways, I’m sure, but this is easier and more fun.
Like, I could make ends meet as a roofer but making more money for sitting in front of a computer is easier and more fun.
As for the other stuff, all I can say is that they weren’t all women.
I think you are really downplaying the risks here. I have friends who have done sex work. It's incredibly dangerous. Men may hurt you. They may stalk you. They may give you a std.
Sometimes the woman agrees to a specific service and the man forces her to do something she said she didn't want to do.
It's not like they can go to the police.
Police will just say "well that's what you get for being a whore".
Trans women in sex work have even higher rates of violence and murder.
Men (usually young) are also subjected to the same risks as women.
Also just because it's easy doesn't mean it's the best long term option
I mean most of the problems in this world are caused by people wanting things the easy way even if it makes things harder later.
Do sex work in your 20s instead of developing a career. Then when you are too old and 40 with no job prospects and no skills, and no one wants you. What then ?
Which is why every one of them supported making sex work legal so they have those protections.
How does making sex work legal help a 40 year old with no skills or job experience?
Decriminalizing sex work is much more effective at reducing crime on the sex workers.
If you don't believe me, look into the Netherlands.
They have a huge problem with sex trafficking because it's legal to sell sex there.
It doesn't protect anyone. It encourages sex trafficking and pimping. Especially for foreign victims and young girls.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_trafficking_in_the_Netherlands
https://humanityinaction.org/knowledge_detail/the-audacity-of-tolerance-a-critical-analysis-of-legalized-prostitution-in-amsterdams-red-light-district/
I know it sounds like legalizing it would help sex workers. But the reality is that it doesn't.
Objectification of bodies never leads to good ends.
https://eclj.org/geopolitics/eu/legal-prostitution-and-human-trafficking-in-the-netherlands?lng=en
How about instead we invest in free education and job training and pay people a living wage so that the dangerous sex work isn't their best option for survival.
As do I. Friends and family both. And I have never heard a sex worker say any of the things you ascribe to them.
I'm wondering if you actually know that many people in the industry. Bcs I'm middle aged, everyone I know who does SW is close to my age, so they're all 35+, mostly over 40, and doing fine.
But if that weren't the case, the same question can be asked of anyone doing manual labor, once your body breaks down (which happens a lot earlier for manual laborers), what do you do?
To borrow an old quote: If you think that the prostitute sells her body and the coal miner does not, your view of labor is clouded by your puritanical view of sex.
Okay so you don't actually know anyone who has aged out of sex work .
My "puritanical views". Is this a joke?
My stance is I'm against human trafficking. I'm against pimps. I'm against workers being hurt by johns. I'm against the promotion of misogyny and objectification of people. I'm against capitalism turning human connection into just another thing to exploit for money. I'm especially against the harms it perpetuates in society.
And I'm against people resorting to the high risk sex work because it's the easy choice when there should be better options for people.
People have more value that tits and ass. Or a hole.
They actually do.
You can pretend the risks and statistics I gave you aren't real.
It doesn't make them false.
Also I certainly don't appreciate your strawman what-aboutism argument.
We aren't talking about people who do labor jobs. We are talking about sex workers.
Jesus. How can you possibly believe that sex work is good for women. I mean. Seriously. How fucked up is it to believe that ?
Why would you support the systems that harm women the most. Why. ? Do you hate women ? I can't see why anyone would think sex work is a great career opportunity for women except people like Epstein and trump.
Cause those are the types of people that benefit from women being exploited this way.
And obviously neither do you. But I do know men women and enbys still doing and enjoying sex work at the age you specifically picked as the age where they "can't" do it anymore and their life will be over for having done sex work. Which was my point, and one you've utterly failed to engage with since you now know you were very wrong.
No, it's a quote, and I apparently misremembered it, since the original word was "moralistic" not "puritanical".
To be clear: sex work is as bad as any other form of labor coerced by capitalism, it just isn't worse than any other form of labor coerced by capitalism. Only the kind of magical thinking that says sex is some special sphere of human activity that should be considered sacred would ever tell you otherwise.
And the pimps, Epsteins, and human traffickers of the world benefit directly from moralistic views of sex. If we treated sex exactly the same as any other full contact sport, there would be far less danger for sex workers who report bad behavior from clients or employers, and there would be far less demand from creeps who want to buy children, because there is a definite correlation (even if no proven causal link) between heavily moralistic views of sex and CSA. This is why religious leaders so often wind up being child rapists.
Finally if you think there's anything strawman or whataboutism in comparing sex work to any other form of work under capitalism, then you do not understand the point I'm making at all, which is that there is no moral difference between the sex worker and the coal miner in a capitalist society. In a socialist society there's a discussion to be had about whether sex work is socially necessary labor, but there is no question it is labor.
This is getting too close to denying women agency for my liking.
Protecting women from trafficking and pimps is denying them agency?
I specifically said I'm against criminalizing sex workers.
This is akin to denying critical race theory.
Stop and think about who benefits. It literally is the Epsteins of this world benefiting from this glamorized false narrative about how sex work is.
I would never hold it against a women for choosing sex work. What I do have a problem with is the systems that have made sure she doesn't have any better options.
These false narratives that it's empowering.
And the men in power who push this narrative that her only value is whatever they like about the way she looks.
For real
Misogyny.
I think a lot of hate comes from:
yep, lots of jealousy
and they never realize just how much work is actually involved
for real this topic always comes along when my bf jokes about opening an OF together
i bluntly respond with "yeah we just need to market ourselves on elon's twitter for months with teasers and maybe paying for that blue mark while networking with other creators"
You forgot:
Those are probably covered by the other three groups
I mean they can, there are many male OF models and some don't even work out, you only need to find your place in the market (usually with a kink)
i wish i had this realization when i was younger. lol
back then, i was deeply confused when i learned that people were getting off to a surreptitiously recorded hookup that featured me because i assumed no fancied me; yet there was in in my full glory laughing at the wailing coming from the man i'm pleasuring and the video had over 100k likes/upvotes.
it wouldn't have made me a millionaire; but it would have gotten me a hell of a lot closer than i will ever be. lol
and at least i got a husband out of the whole affair; i like silver linings. lol
damn that sounds hot no wonder it got many likes lol
you would be surprised, a friend of mine got popular with their low quality gay orgy videos and now lives on Canada and its part of a polycule
sounds like they did better than i did. lol
For sure! I didn't mean "they can't make money" as in "men can't make any money". That'd be absurd.
I meant that "those angry individuals can't make money from it". And maybe they could if they tried, but they're not trying, so they can't.
You do know that you don't have to be gay to make gay porn, right?
Anyone who works a job they hate for a boss they hate, for not enough money, is the same as any prostitute. They should stop being so judgemental.
Wise words master
Sex workers face mortality rates from overdose that dwarf the general population. We're talking about an external-cause mortality risk roughly 8-12 times higher for these marginalized groups. The direct link is undeniable: studies show a significant history of substance dependence (100% in one cohort) with opioids involved in ~90% of those fatal events. It's crucial to note these are likely "conservative estimates" because many records don't capture sex work status.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12405828/
The driving factor isn't the work itself, but the trauma surrounding it. You see a high burden of PTSD, anxiety, and depression that predates or coincides with substance use. For many, the drug use, especially "polysubstance" mixing of opioids and benzos, is a form of self-medication to numb the violence and stigma
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/acps.13559
The overdose is often a direct consequence of criminalization and policing. Research shows that when police target sex workers or create barriers to safe consumption sites, the odds of a fatal overdose more than double (AOR 2.15)
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0955395922003668?fr=RR-2&ref=pdf_download&rr=9d06bca97a56066e
I dated a cam girl for a while, (insert the obligatory “it’s not dating if you’re paying her lul” joke here), and she smoked a quarter per day. It was the only way she could tolerate the work.
Given, she was damned good at her job. She made more in 4 hours of streaming than my roommate and I made in a week combined. She literally made enough to cover her rent and bills in like three or four hours of work. So she could definitely afford to smoke that much, because basically everything after that first stream was disposable income for her. But she would get done with her stream and immediately hit a bowl to try and forget the work. And she’d basically be stoned until her next stream was scheduled to start.
If she had ever graduated to harder drugs, she 100% would have OD’ed. However, it’s also a little disingenuous to compare streamers/OnlyFans models with in-person sex workers. There’s a level of compartmentalization that online sex work creates. It’s definitely still reliant on building a parasocial relationship, but you’re not actually sleeping with Johns in person. Unless you’re doxxed, there’s very little personal risk involved. But with in-person sex work, all of that is inverted. Online sex work is obviously still sex work, but it’s definitely a different type of sex work.
It’s like comparing retail work with an Amazon warehouse. Both jobs suck in their own way, and they’re both fulfilling the same basic purpose of getting products to customers. But very few people would say that they’re the same job, and the stressors associated with each are unique.
While yes, I agree that OnlyFans is sex work, I disagree with lumping the general "prostitute" from the street/brothel with the onlyfans/sex cam worker.
The remote nature keeps unsavory folk away by default (under the assumption that they arent doxxed) while sex work in person is, well, in person.
I don't like how it's spammed around, otherwise I wouldn't care about it.
My opinion is that, if you ignore the judeo-christian prudishness, it comes down to two things.
First, some jealousy. It looks like easy money, and they're having sex (in the case of porn actors), so there's this almost subconscious anger that someone else found a trick to "get rich". Thing is with that, the only people getting rich in porn were/are the producers. Only fans shifted that a little, but the company takes a cut like any asshole pimp would. I've actually heard people irl express things that lead me to believe this is a common factor.
Second is the fact that a large swath of people, even though otherwise open minded and unconcerned about sex issues, still think that the only reason one would sell their sexuality is because they can't do better. It's the whole thing where humans like to piss downhill. Anyone doing something that a person considers "below" them is gong to be seen as inherently flawed. That doesn't apply only to porn, btw.
Hell, I fall prey to the trope that anyone doing porn must have some kind of trauma, if I don't pay attention to myself. It is true that porn as it exists in this world is marginalized, and heavily staffed by sufferers of trauma. It actually is one of those jobs where people that have serious mental health problems and/or drug dependency get drawn to because it's relatively easy to find and keep income compared to other jobs when you have those issues.
Since porn is marginalized, there is a significant portion of the on screen workers that don't have many other options. It's super easy for someone young, undereducated, and desperate to end up being paid to show their body or fuck. Since someone in that situation is going to get paid less doing anything else they could find, the industry is heavily weighted towards that population (partially because of the ease of finding desperate people, and mostly because the desperate are easier to exploit and abuse).
Only fans runs closer to neutral since it is based in individuals. So while abuse occurs, and there's a lot wrong with the company, the real abuse only happens when an outside person is forcing a model or models to perform. Not that porn is free of trafficking and forced labor, but it's less useful to do that for porn when there's easier ways to exploit someone there.
That's my take anyway. It's based on casual conversations with people that object to porn in its various guises, and the rest from casual exposure to interviews and conversations with adult performers
Personal view from someone who considers themselves pretty liberal: I don't get why people spend money on it.
I have no issue at all with anything someone does to make money, provided it doesn't hurt anyone else. Good for them, wish I was attractive enough to do it. I'd have absolutely no issue with my wife or sister or friend earning money this way.
What I do object to, is low effort. Not just OF/porn, but influencers and streamers more widely. Fake noises, grotesque leering, begging for money - none of it is real, and it doesn't interest me in the slightest. It doesn't appeal to me as a consumer, and I don't understand at all that it does for anyone. Obviously it does work and people do pay money to watch it but I'm genuinely bewildered why. If you want porn, it's everywhere for free. If anyone reading is a viewer, please do try to educate me on what you get out of it!
(Also, I do know there are people who genuinely enjoy performing and put a lot of effort into producing quality, it's not all shite)
True story; I used to employ a chap doing building work. He was straight, married (but open, he slept with several of our female staff), good looking and very fit - and one day he handed me his notice. He said he'd been doing OF and gay porn at the weekends and he was making ten times the money in half a day doing that than he was working five days for me. Good for him, he was able to afford a lifestyle he couldn't otherwise.
Porn & SW make much more sense to me than streamers and influencers.
Replace 'porn star' with 'slave' and you'll understand. There might be a section of the population that would like to be a slave, but we have, as a society, decided that people shouldn't be bought and sold like furniture.
Of course, the hatred should be aimed at the economic and social systems that allow people to buy others' dignity, not at the victims of that system.
Having spoken with a few women that have done things adjacent to pornography, their regrets are mostly in regards to the way they were treated by people that were not in the industry. The escorts I've spoken with enjoy the work itself, although not necessarily all of the customers.
What you're saying about the horrors of pornography and prostitution apply to ALL people that need to work for a living. The company I work for buys my time, the product of my labor--which they sell for many times what I'm paid--and even my dignity by forcing me to wear a uniform of their choice. I absolutely do not like the customers that ultimately purchase the products of my labor, but I have little choice if I want to have a place to live, and food to eat.
Like I said, I'm sure there are people who enjoy this, but the system is still exploitative and harmful.
Yes. In an ideal world, people won't have to do any dangerous or difficult jobs. But for now, we can't start with the worst offenders.
I think there are no worst offenders here, all labor is valid as in all labor is exploitative in a capitalist system
Dignity is very relative here, I think you can be a sex worker and keep your dignity
There is no difference in work quality between painting and coal mining? Teaching children and soldering diodes? Really?
Again, I'm not talking about the exceptions here. Having to sell yourself for money is a horrible fate to most, to the extent that we make laws against that. You can think of this the same way.
I've met more people who are proud sex workers then I have people who are proud fast food employees.
I think that perhaps you are letting your disgust for a person's work color how you feel about the person. Do you feel the same about athletes and actors? They also "sell their bodies".
As I said above, the people being forced to sell their dignity are the victims, and need help and rehabilitation. My hatred and disgust are reserved exclusively for those who exploit them, and the economic and social system which enables such behaviour.
Having to sell yourself for money is what most people do every day, bruh. Every job I've ever had has been a major detriment to my physical and/or mental health, and was accepted only under threat of homelessness and starvation.
do you believe that all sex work is dangerous or difficult?
do you believe that easy & safe but compulsory work as a means to get obtain food and shelter is an ideal world?
Emotional toll aside, putting yourself at the mercy of a stronger person who has already shown that he does not care about right and wrong, day after day, is very much dangerous.
People do enjoy work when it is pleasant and interesting. Should it be compulsory? I don't know. Rich people who don't have to do any work often lose touch with the world. So perhaps even in that ideal world where we have amazing robots that can do anything, we should have people do a little bit of some work of their choice.
But all this is just speculation. For now, the focus should be on freeing people from the most dangerous and difficult jobs.
No, you misunderstand: ALL labor under capitalism is exploitative. 'Dangerous' and 'difficult' has nothing to do with it. The system is set up so that your labor must be used for the benefit of someone else in order to obtain the bare necessities of survival, and you don't get the full value of your labor. It doesn't matter if that's working in an office doing spreadsheets all day, or as a sex work; ALL labor is exploited under capitalism.
Work is work; sex workers are workers.
See my reply to [email protected].
There are significant differences to being forced to sell your mind, competence and time; vs being forced to auction off the another's use of your own genitals.
Please explain what those differences are without using any magical thinking that places sex into a sacred sphere of human activity that is holy and sacrosanct?
Or don't. My point is you can tell how serious a person is when they start talking about the morality of sex by replacing every mention of sex in their point with "boxing". It's still a highly physical one-on-one activity that's a crime of both participants haven't consented, so if the exact same argument doesn't make sense when made about boxing then they are thinking magically about sex and not materialistically.
Why do I have to think about sex materialistically?
Because thinking about it magically leads you to idiotic conclusions like "maybe the bronze age goat fuckers really did discover the ultimate truth of sexual morality, and it's just coincidence that it just so happened to lay the foundation for millennia of Patriarchal bullshit".
So you have arbitrarily decided that I must think about sex either magically or materialistically.
Good day to you sir.
I mean, I didn't decide that, that's just kind of how it works.
Yes, being forced to sell your own mind is infinitely worse. You no longer have your own thoughts; your mind belongs to your employers. That is absolutely, 1000% worse than selling physical labor.
Are you comparing OnlyFans to literal slavery? You do know that they get paid, right?
Slaves could get paid and buy their freedom in many historical societies.
I think the comparison is about want and need. They do it because they feel forced into it, by some means or another.
Sounds like the same reason I go to work. I need the money because it's the only legal option I have to obtain food and shelter.
And you would be right. That is what it sounds like. We all get forced into working. Some have to wear a uniform and serve coffee and biscuits, others have to slop 50 year old meat in a dirty toilet - or whatever scenario that makes it more palatable.
Not most of them, apparently!
There are infinitely more people who work themselves to death in hazardous jobs for peanuts with a boss who treats them like shit.
But somehow the people who are their own boss, make good money on their own terms have no dignity and are 'sold like furniture'.
That is a backward and pedantic view.
Its the bots and getting it shoved down your throat. on every app with a non neglable user base you will see countless bots/grifters swarm popular posts.
its kinda like the furry comunity. The vocal minority destroyes the public image
Yup. The fact that they take over any community revolving around self photos without heavy moderation.(cosplay, fashion, etc)
Also dating apps, but I don't use those anyways.
Sex work is work.If someone hates on a sex workers, me thinks they doth protest too much.
Some people genuinely have a problem with it.
But I’m convinced that the majority of it is just: It’s embarrassing (and therefore costs social capital) to defend it.
So therefore: If you attach it to something else you want to attack, you just gave yourself a strategic advantage.
I respect sex workers but I really don't want to be advertised to while I'm jerking off, or ever really. Like if i'm in the market for buying nudes I'll come to you. I have nothing against anyone who buys or sells pics on onlyfans.
how do find these people if they can't market themselves? (honest question)
At places where they can market those things. There aren't any? They can make them.
They have in the past, with several subreddits, and I'm pretty sure some Lemmy servers also have communities for it. But the real issue is marketing morals vs profit.
Direct marketing and ads where there is natural traffic(Such as Instagram, and other social networks) generates a fuckton more revenue than posting on a space by and for makers.
Personally, all the marketing directed at me makes me leave, be it sexual or not. When I am advertised at, I just stop using the service. And when I want to consume, I look for it in places where the makers are in as much control as possible, and I can actually get my money's worth.
Sometimes I just want to see, so I subscribe to makers I like and who advertise in places for that. Do I know they don't do direct marketing? I do not, but at least they're posting in the places for it.
If I want something more specific or custom made? I put on a request message, or search for makers that take requests and actually have discussions with potential customers, I keep it short, sweet and to the point because I understand they are not my friends, time is money and this is their job, and honestly, I have become friends with some, and even helped some who wanted to leave the businesses and work in something more stable or compatible with their wants and needs. I used to do sex work when I was young, so I don't judge, but also have high standards.
So long as it’s entirely consensual for all who’s involved and every one is of adult age I don’t see the problem …
The problem is that under capitalism very little labor is entirely voluntary. Most people have to take the job they get, almost no one does sex work voluntarily.
If there was a basic income there would be a lot less people in the porn industry. There still would be people in the porn industry though because those ones enjoy the work.
I don't care for ads. They are basically living ads.
It’s a good question. I honestly don’t have an answer. If a person wakes up one day and says hey, that’s what I want to do. Who are we to judge it?
What happens is they wake up. Broke. And think. I have no other options. Or someone else talks them into it. People don't usually get into sex work because they enjoy it.
There are some high libido people who do. But they are the exception not the norm.
Usually it is who they consider their boyfriend who talks them into performing on OF. It is actually their virtual pimp.
Yeah quite a lot are married too. Kinda messed up.
I don't. I love their work \s
It's funny that people here are boiling down prostitution (which is what porn is) to "just sex", that probably says something about social conditions! It's the natural progression of western feminism that demonizes minority men (particularly Palestinians I might add) & casts slavery as empowerment. Onlyfans top percentile performers are essentially madams due to their relationship to the global system of extraction that subsidizes them. Like the majority of porn, Onlyfans makes most of its money off the same thing Xitter does now—desperate people in third world countries.
People frame "soft" prostitution as voluntary, but if you're performing sex acts or doing things which make you uncomfortable that you wouldn't have done without money, that's coercion. You are being sexually assaulted. In fact, that is the main draw of "live" porn platforms, being able to coerce women directly into doing things which make them increasingly uncomfortable.
You should be mindful of the platform's position in the surveillance + tech bubble as well. Has nobody mentioned it's an Israeli company? That seems to elicit the disgust that anything Silicon Valley-related ought to, since 2023 anyways
There are a lot ore conservatives in the world than you would believe if you live in a big city and/or a developed western nation.
I see people hate the pronographic industry (with every reason to), but not the actors.
Rape is worse than beating, because sex is a uniquely intimate activity. The intimacy is what makes the commercialization of sex so fragile. The chances of sex work and porn turning out sustainably healthy are so narrow.
Magical thinking bullshit. Sex is exactly as sacred as a one on one game of basketball, and almost every bit of the Patriarchy rests on the foundation of denying that basic truth.
I'm all for smashing patriarchy and a part of me agrees with you on sex being "just another activity". But I'd be very interested to hear other people's thoughts on my argument about rape vs beating!
Sex is categorically not "uniquely intimate". A stimulating conversation about a subject you're both passionate about is a far more intimate thing that a drunken bar bathroom hookup.
That kind of magical thinking is the problem. It's an incredibly slippery and not very long slope from "sex is a magical and unique form of human interaction" to "daughters are property of their fathers until they are sold and become property of their husbands".
Ice cream is delicious because it is sweet.
It is possible to state something that is both completely correct and totally wrong at the same time. Your statement is exactly that.
So you are saying some people want to do porn, and others don't. Presumably because some like it and some don't. They all do it for money though, none of them do it for free.
What's the basis of knowing if someone does it because they like it then? Because they say so?
I mean that is the same basis for regular labor so yes because they said so
When a boss asks an employee if they like their job, then the employee rarely have anything to gain by saying no - even if they don't actually like their job.
Honesty isn't necessarily rewarded. That makes it hard to know if a person actually does porn because they like it, since they usually have an incentive to say they like it regardless.
Yeah that's what I said, it just as regular labor. There is no way of knowing if a person actually works because they like it.
Exhibitionism exists and for some it's fun.
The money is extra.
And who is gonna decide if they want to do it if not them?
Your moral police?
No, my point is that some may be doing porn that don't like doing porn, but are still saying they do like porn - because of various social or economic mechanisms, or circumstances, or whatever.
That's not saying that nobody likes doing porn.
Obviously OnlyFans is for money by design, but there are plenty people posting their amateur porn online because they like it and not want to profit from it.
@Fedpie porn addiction is a serious problem for society, and porn models are just a part of it
I have no problem with them doing it, I just probably would never date anyone who has had an only fans. It's something young women/men should be aware of that they automatically exclude themselves from a huge part of the dating pool when they make a decision like that. If they are ok with that, more power to them! Kind of like having 30+ sexual partners. It seems to take pieces of your soul, and it takes decades of work to get those pieces back together in my opinion. Most people are inherently turned off by that for a reason.
And nothing of value is lost. Who wants to date someone with weird moralistic hangups about sex, unless they share those hangups?
It's hard to predict who you will fall for in 2,5, or 10 years. You will want to be honest with that person, and it might turn them off to know your history. Luckily, after enough time has passed, and you've really worked on yourself, it shouldn't really matter what you did 10-20 years ago.
In my opinion, you are better off finding yourself a consistent fuck-buddy for in between relationships. A mutual arrangement, rather than a bunch of one night stands, is much safer for your mental health (assuming no one catches feelings).
lmao
your opinion isn't worth anything because it appeals to vague spiritual vibes instead of actual reasoning
only insecure misogynist weirdos care about that body count shit.
This is coming off as defensive, which I expected after making a comment like that. Could it be that I said something you weren't ready to hear?
I have known men and women with 10-20 body count who have no issues in relationships because that's just natural exploration. But spending more time focusing on sex than working on your self DEFINITELY has an effect on your ability to maintain a LTR. You have to feel the loneliness and embrace it, sometimes. You have to use your excess energy to workout, volunteer, make friends, go to therapy, learn a trade, and meet yourself, instead of putting it into a bunch of random (or toxic) partners you don't really want to spend the rest of your life with.
If you can't focus your energy on constructive things, your soul suffers. You get weak/soft, and uninteresting as a partner. It took years for me to build up real inner strength again and women notice that shit. This is not just advice for women, it's advice for men too. It takes months to know someone, and even longer to get over them if you've had sex with them. There's a limited amount of time we have in our 20s, and if you have sex with a bunch of people too early, you've probably wasted that time.
Ok I worked at Walmart for 11 years does that mean my self worth is minimum wage? I don't think so. My worth after I'm gone will be determined by the people who loved me and I honestly won't care,what with me being dead and all.
If I thought I could make enough money from doing sex work your damn right I would and I would be more proud of that then my work at retail or a defense contractor or a member of the military.
Sex work is work and as long as everyone concents rock the fuck on.
My legacy is a bunch of data on a server 🤷🏾♂️. My value lies in how good I am at putting it there. A job's a job. If they like it and aren't hurting anyone, I'm not judging.
How much do you make per hour at your current job? Because I can almost guarantee that if you’re working class, a good cam model makes more per hour than you do. So why are you cheapening your worth by continuing to work at a job where you’re making less than a sex worker? You’re worth more than that, right? If it’s all about worth, you should be demanding more from your employer.
Some people get off to that thought, just FYI. Exhibitionism is a thing.
Your legacy, like all of ours, will be a stone slab in the ground with your birth and death date engraved on it. If you’re lucky, it might still be there in a hundred years. More likely, it’ll be paved over by a highway, to facilitate the ever-growing urban sprawl. If you genuinely think your legacy will outlive you, then I have a statue surrounded by lone and level sands to sell you.
He said none of the BS you claim 'he's saying'.
That's just your pathetic opinion based on your backwards morale
Not morally acceptable, is disgusting. The fact that people show off their body to thousands of people and wanna make money off it is not morally acceptable.
I'm not seeing the amorality. It's not like they're hurting anyone.
I would actually say that it is "amoral" in that it isn't in the realm of moral judgment in the first place.
I think "immoral" was the word you were looking for.
sure
They're not harming anyone physically. But they are mentally for sure. Many of the young generation are falling to porn and getting addicted to it, and many even get addicted to the point that their taste grows more extreme and at one point, they start enjoying gore stuff. There are just so many more harmful sides to porn
First of all, I'd love to see some sources for your claims, 'cause that's a whole cartfull of slippery slope bullshit.
Second of all, so? That's the person's own choice, and they aren't hurting anyone.
All jobs require someone to use their body in order for them to make money, I would much rather show my body for money than to do physical labor for money.
Meanwhile, I would rather do physical labour than show my private parts and let people use me as they please. Because I have dignity and self-respect.
Ironically, you've just described the lyrics of Lori Meyers by NOFX but from the worst take possible.
It's almost as if it should be your choice
Not of you're publicly announcing that you're so backwards-minded that you look down on sex workers, you don't. Imagine being that gross of a person and proud of it.
So...shut down the fashion industry and Hollywood?
Those are at least better than porn and OnlyFans
How so?
What's the difference between Halle Berry getting an extra million to take her top off in Swordfish and an Onlyfans girl, aside from the number of zeroes on the check?
What if it's just for fun and not for money? Is that morally okay? Or is it just nudity is icky?
Guess we gotta ban all those workout tapes and virtual gyms too?
People who think metaphysically about sex are not ever going to see the logical inconsistencies in their world view. To them that actually is different, because to them sex is magic and not biochemistry.
Why not? Genuinely curious
i like how many comments in this thread are just "it's bad because it's bad"
really engaging discourse here