I gave up Bill Cosby.
I gave up Kevin Spacey.
I gave up all of the 80s and 90s movies about toxic masculinity and misogyny.
I gave up Aerosmith (maybe Steven Tyler hasn't been canceled yet but COME ON have you heard the lyrics to any single one of his songs).
I gave up Michael Richards (and Seinfeld too).
I gave up Michael Jackson.
You can give up Harry Potter. It's the right thing to do, it's worth it, and it's the adult decision. Grow up and check your allegiances. They'll define you.
While you’re keeping an open mind then You can also expand your options to include artists who don’t have to be an asshole.
Separate the artist from the art doesnt just have to happen if they are an asshole.
There’s like a plethora of magic school books and films and tv series especially circa 2012 onward to dig into by other artists trying to compete. Sounds like a perfect opportunity to give them a chance.
Pirating her content is still making her rich, while also granting her a deeper foothold in your own media environment, heart, and mind. You deserve better, and you can do better.
I'll probably watch the first couple episodes just out of curiousity. I'm already paying for the service. It's going to get watching by my family regardless. I'm getting outrage fatigue if I am being honest. It's just hard to care about anything these days.
Might want to rethink Michael Jackson. A lot of what he’s been accused of turned out to be an Epstein smear campaign when he interfered with their ops. McCauley Caulkin spoke out about this recently.
I mean that's great and all but a real source would be nice. Someone who was a kid speaking nicely about someone accused of harming kids, isn't an exoneration. That's like Kanye saying Nick Fuentes isn't racist.
Note not taking either side on the topic. I don't know or really care that much on MJ, an actual useful source would be say an epstein letter where epsteins announcing they want to make MJ look guilty. Fully plausible that MJ's scandal was a combination of people saying he's weird, with a few chasing a paycheck. But someone who fits the demographic saying "I was around him for years and I was never abused", is IMO not evidence.
Corey Feldman is the reason I don't believe the accusations against MJ. What that kid went through is horrific and predators can smell prey a mile away. If Michael was abusing kids there is no way he would have missed that one, Corey would have been an easy target after what they did to him. But Corey comes out and tries to shine a light on the things that are happening and specifically says that Michael never did anything inappropriate.
I always knew it was a set-up. I looked up to him as a kid, and people made fun of me for it, but I never believed the things they said about him.
He had a troubled past, he was eccentric and effeminate and that already made him a target for hate, but he genuinely seemed to care about kids and wanted to offer them a better childhood than the one he had.
It was a recipe for a PR shitstorm, especially when you throw "trying to disrupt an actual billionaire pedo ring funded by mossad" into the mix...
He didn't destroy McCauley, though. The publicity did. Imagine how confusing it must be to a child, to be torn away from your mentor, possibly the only person who sees you as a human and values you as such, who understands what a personal hell being a child star can be. All because he was accused of doing things to you, and the rest of the adults don't seem to care what you have to say about it...
And then having to finish growing up without your mentor, with all the meanness of the world amplified by fame and stigma, when no one will get near you or even mention your name except to make fun of you, and they all do it with this self-righteous smugness as if they're convinced to their bones that they're better than you, and they feel completely morally justified in their judgements, too...
Yeah, I never thought MJ was the bad guy. It's a bit of a relief to hear his name has been cleared after all these years, even if it's come too late. If he were alive today, I wonder if he would've ever come out as trans. I can only speculate now, as only he could ever make that determination for himself.
Anyway, I still remember listening on the radio when he was in the hospital, in cardiac arrest, and then being declared dead. It was a sad day for me. I think it was drug-related though, so I wonder if it still would've happened if he wasn't so hated. Or if he hadn't been so abused himself as a child. Again, just speculation, now...
You know, I have to wonder if that overdose was really accidental now. He pissed off some really powerful people who just don't accept being told "no."
Why, cause you've spent your life hating someone who was not only innocent, but it now comes out that he was actually trying to disrupt a powerful cabal committing the actual crimes, and got accused as a result and a deflection?
Or because you're unwilling to admit that to yourself and reexamine the beliefs you're so accustomed to holding in that regard?
Thanks for the psych eval but no, it was more the guy from home alone revealing that MJ was a secret hero disrupting a crime ring, it's all very cinematic
Unfortunately, Rowling probably won't lose her millions (billions?) if we stop reading/watching her slop. But we CAN prevent her getting even more millions.
You can give up Harry Potter. It’s the right thing to do, it’s worth it, and it’s the adult decision.
It's a children's story. I don't think you're asking for people to leap over mountains by giving up childhood things as an adult.
At the same time, people seem to fixate on the consumerist aesthetics and ignore the material realities. If you've got transgender friends and family that you support with your time and care and money, and you want to flip through an old dog-eared copy of Philosopher's Stone (or rewatch The Usual Suspects or throw on an episode of Fat Albert) because of nostalgia, I don't think you're committing any kind of grievous sin.
JK Rowling isn't going to stop being a billionaire because you played a HP themed video game or watched an episode of her rebooted book show on HBO.
Meanwhile, abstaining from all things problematic, without doing anything materially positive for any of the LGBTQ folks in your life isn't doing anyone any favors. Being a Consumerist Harpy who only knows how to scream at people for their mass media of choice, in the name of LGBTQ, is turning civil advocacy into some kind of branding exercise.
Meanwhile, abstaining from all things problematic, without doing anything materially positive for any of the LGBTQ folks in your life isn't doing anyone any favors. Being a Consumerist Harpy who only knows how to scream at people for their mass media of choice, in the name of LGBTQ, is turning civil advocacy into some kind of branding exercise.
See also: Tesla
I don't know if you're trying to call me out or not, but I can assure you I am quite active in advocacy and direct action for queer folks in my life and ib my community. I'm not interested in writing up a resumė about it, but I'm not the tree to bark up with that one.
Rowling spends almost every bit of income she gets on funding anti-transgender organisations and literal fascists (such as Posie Parker), whose lobbying efforts have turned every major British party against transgender healthcare, resulting in transgender healthcare becoming practically inaccessible through legal means with waiting lists lasting decades.
In terms of its material impact, buying HP merch is equivalent to buying a swastika flag from a neonazi store. You can be assured that every cent of profit will go to funding fascism. The only difference is the aesthetic of having HP merch versus having nazi merch.
I've had a theory for a long time that many of the "LGBT advocate/ally" voices that participate in the discourse aren't actually doing so in our best interests. Many ways I've seen people who call themselves allies talk and act are more likely to push people away than educate.
Preferably I'd like if people could just let HP die and fade away, but beyond that just try not to give her royalty money, and if you can't do that then at the least i don't want to hear about it.
Preferably I’d like if people could just let HP die and fade away
With enough time and a vacuum of marketing dollars, it will. The reboot is already flopping.
just try not to give her royalty money, and if you can’t do that then at the least i don’t want to hear about it.
Hard to advocate for a boycott without hearing about the things you're boycotting.
The principle of a boycott is to pressure the business to change it's policies. The implication is that you'd come back if they reformed.
If you're really looking to replace a franchise rather than reform it, helps to fill the vacuum.
"I'm a big fan of X over Y, because it's got all the things I like without the crude" tends to bend more ears than "Stop doing Y without my permission!"
That's not really gatekeeping. Maybe gatekeeping a fully emotionally developed adult? But that's a bit of a stretch too. You can't just throw around buzzwords and expect it to mean anything. And you definitely can't be expected to be taken seriously.
Maybe if you put down the YA and read something age appropriate you'd get a better feel for adult interactions.
No. Gatekeeping was the polite way to say that you have no fucking right to stop someone from doing what they enjoy, as long as they aren’t harming someone else. I personally don’t read YA novels, but I will protect that right for everyone else.
The correct term, rather than gatekeeper, would be fascist. You can fuck right off if you’re going to try controlling what media a person consumes. If you truly think what you’re saying, you are a morally bankrupt human.
With all that stretching and leaping you must be limber as fuck.
I would never stop anyone from doing anything that didn't harm someone else. But I will judge the fuck out of them. Disney adults, children's book readers, broneys, etc. are children's minds in adults bodies. If it's because of a disability, good for them, they should enjoy life in whichever way suits them. If not, it's pathetic and they should seek help with their personal growth.
I enjoy hard scifi, politics, health, ... and also enjoy some "for children" media. Just like I enjoy listening to metal, 80s, ... and also listening to jazz.
I don't read HP, and I wasn't going to get involved in this discussion. But then I saw your post. I deal with actual special needs people on the daily, and you saying shit like this is vile. I think you are the one who needs to start acting like an adult, maybe do a bit of self reflection.
its not. Its mediocre and needs time travel to work.
This mentality misses the point, IMO. Even if the Harry Potter books were written in such a way that made even the staunchest critic go, "Wow, these books rival the works of of J.R.R. Tolkien and Shakespeare," that should have zero bearing on whether or not any given individual makes the decision to boycott an author's work on idealistic grounds.
I like plenty of art that could be classified as schlock; not everything we enjoy has to be masterpiece theatre. I've boycotted all HP content ever since Rowling became a professional asshole, but I won't pretend I didn't enjoy the books and the films as a teenager.
Here's a hard pill to swallow: shitty people can make good art. We can condemn bad people unequivocally without simultaneously needing their art to be bad. Michael Jackson was my favorite musician for many years, but hearing his music in 2026 always leaves a bad taste in my mouth. But I won't pretend that it wasn't my jam and I certainly won't suggest that the music was mediocre.
Edit: And although it goes without saying: this decision is always up to the individual. I have trans friends who don't concern themselves with Rowlings' sociopolitical views and continue to enjoy HP content. I don't begrudge them for that; we all have different, if arbitrary, boundaries.
Card is confounding because those first few Ender books are unequivocally about the importance of empathy and recognition of common personhood, even across seeming-impenetrable species boundaries, and how mutual respect and love are the most important quality a person can have. And then... yadda yadda yadda, OSC is a gigantic bigot. The. Fuck?
Ebony becomes so angry at this perceived betrayal[e] that she runs crying into the Forbidden Forest, where she is approached by Lord Voldemort. Voldemort, speaking in faux-archaic English, gives her a gun and demands that she kill Vampire.
There is also a cameo by a gothic Marty McFly, who gives Ebony a black DeLorean time machine able to transform into an iPod, allowing her to travel forward in time.
Time travel is mostly used as a deus ex machina to solve a problem a writer has written themselves in. Like in HP, the time travel bit is only for students to learn more, not to erase attacks by Voldemort, because reasons. In other words, they could have stopped the death if Harrys parents, but did not want to, because reasons.
I get that if used well and as a consistent plot device, it can work. But in HP, its simply a one-oft drama device. Its boring and lazy writing.
Edit, ah, I see
My Immortal is popularly regarded as one of the worst works of fan fiction ever written
I was a huge fan back then and nowadays I'm like " This thread is how I learn, that there's a new show announced?" - shows how much I care about that franchise today, lol.
Yup. I was a DIE HARD fan of hairy pothead until rowling showed her true colours. Now I won't even watch HP or read the books, even if they're pirated. She's a bigoted POS and she can rot in hell.
The entire franchise is just so fucking mid, I don't understand why people worship it so much. The invented language in particular is cringe as fuck and sounds like shit a child would come up with.
I could identify the racist tropes and body shaming just interwoven into the whole series before I hit puberty.
Oh then of course slavery is good sometimes actually, here I invented a scenario where this is true.
I got bored of Harry Potter, and just reread Animorphs.
Which certainly has problematic characters and moments and events... but ... they are bad things, that the characters have to actually deal with, its a much more complex and engaging story overall, imo, though of course the serial format means that some books are not so great in comparison to others.
I mean yeah, so long as you're not actually giving money to the evil woman that wrote those books in any way, nobody's stopping you from enjoying your old Harry Potter books and DVDs.
Heck, if you're missing one you can buy it on eBay second hand, just so long as you're not supporting the evil woman with a shiny new purchase, ya know? That woman doesn't deserve a penny.
There's a separate conversation you might want to have with yourself on whether your can separate the author from the work while you're reading it, of course, and whether you're comfortable doing so or not is a personal decision you'll have to make for yourself.
Not sure how that helps creators, honestly. No money from torrenters are going to the creators, by torrenting. Unless they decide to buy collectors' merch in the end, of course.
The really weird thing is how many LGBTQ folks latched onto HP in its early releases as what was recognized to be a kind-of pro-queer YA novel.
You had a young boy who was literally in the closet, disowned and disrespected by family, who is spirited away to a magical school where his differences are valued and cultivated. He's got a bunch of friends who could easily sub in for queer icons. There are gender-bending magical spells, the bad guys are explicitly fascist, most books end with some kind of "The power of friendship and love will triumph!" rejoinder. FFS, Dumbledore is canonically gay.
It is far more a testament to the psychologically corrosive power of plutocracy that JK Rowling went off the rails. I don't think it's unfair for people to like the books and hate the author. Just remember not to pay for anything and you're fine.
It's most probable that Rowling is actually trans, but refuses to accept it. Denying it along with degrading empathy due to her financial success just creates a void she feeds with hostility. This leads to guilt, more hostility due to "shame", etc. Her books portray her actual feelings, but she fell off the wagon because she believes it is shameful to accept a different gender. She has even said that she wished she was a boy. Regardless, funding any kinda hate group is fucked. Believe what you want, but don't try and stop people from having their own joy if it's not harmful.
While the cultures are different, I don't get it. Women in the US basically have a "just cause I lack a penis, doesn't mean I am not equal" mentality. And women earned rights in the UK before the US. Just seems like the misogny would be less over there. Then again, racism was on the decline here, and now it's like everyone has a golden ticket to be bigoted assholes, so...
No she's just trying to sell the idea that being trans is a tactical choice just like how she put JK instead of Joanne on her book cover so more boys would buy it.
Standard terf belief is that trans men just sometimes wanted to do boy stuff as a kid but didn't because of sexism and are too cowardly and weak to stand up for themselves so they treacherously try to join the enemy. As part of trying to convince herself and other people that's how it works she has to do her own Evangelical "I smoked crack every day before I found Jesus" thing.
That story she tells about wanting to be a boy is basically tailor-made to drum up sympathy for her while shooting down a carefully-constructed strawman that doesn't actually resemble the real experiences of body dismorphia, but superficially appears as though it could.
Keep in mind, it's also the series where one of the fascist teachers kills the retroactively gay character but had a good reason for doing so and is actually not a baddie at all.
I am going to admit I enjoyed the series a lot 20 years ago, can't say I've read ger stuff since the series ended and haven't done anything to support her since the whole TERF thing came out and she started showing what sort of person she was. I recently picked up my old books to see if they held up and by god is it filled with bigoted stereotypes, Cho Chang (two last names) for the Chinese girl, Goblins being the obvious stereotype/alehory of Jews from a European who was "open minded" about Jews pre ww2 but still wanted to make sure that they deserved some of the bad shit that happened to them because they're vicious even if unfair wizard laws were passed, the black auror being called Shackelbolt, the wezeleys being very much catholics for being poor with too many kids, the french being snobbish bafoons but classy, the Centaurs being either polytheists or gypsies, the list just goes on and Harry being the hero just gets rid of the head Nazi while leaving the institutions and culture in place, doesn't even think about the slavery aspect except for Dobby, and he and Ron make fun of Hermione for her pushing for their freedom. I guess the reason why people enjoy the series is because the world feels somewhat real and magical because she put her imagination and bigotry into the story and never thought of trying to have the protagonists actually solve a major issue and will let it fester.
While I agree it’s logical to boycott her, portraying HP fans as trans abusers is a bit much. If buying the HP books is equivalent to punching a chained down trans person in the face then absolutely none of us, including the artist here, haven’t done worse.
I’d bet anything they have bought products on Amazon, which makes them responsible for Bezos. Does that artist have an X account for advertisement? That gas they buy makes them responsible for violence the middle east. Are they one of the remarkable few who ethically source clothes without child labor? Bet not.
I boycott all kinds of stuff, but demonizing people for not joining you is nonsensical in this consumerist hellscape where complete harm avoidance isn’t possible.
Even with your example you're missing a big point though.
It's pretty tough to get around without gas and just as difficult to find clothes that don't involve child labour. But this is one single fantasy franchise in a huge sea of other options and people will still happily give their money to the single person that actively harms a specific minority.
Again, people should boycott her, convince people to do it all day. However, this demonization is out of line. I’m just saying if this is your threshold for what makes someone an irredeemable monster, then you should make sure your own house is in order before you start lighting the pyre.
You know what I am tired of? The focus being on whether consuming or not makes you a good person. I don't care if in your heart of hearts you are a good person or not. So often it comes down to people trying to defend their own gods damned image of themselves as "in the right"
What I care about is that the absolute ghouls being propped up by this series stay in the limelight. Their money funds changes to society which have created an uptick in suicides. Did you know trans kids in the UK, the ones who were in gender affirming care that the government changed to be essentially just regular old therapy, has seen a marked increase in suicide? Since the law that JKR paid her blood money to get changed there's been civil suits filed by workplaces driving trans people out. Trans people are marching in the UK and getting their asses handed to them by police for holding vigils for the dead outside of the government buildings of the health care service nominally charged with their care that sees a waiting list that in some parts of the country at current capacity sees an estimate of 200 years wait for a first consultation. Trans people there are increasingly DIYing their own hormonal transitions sometimes having to go through illegal paths like they are dealing in cocaine just for the willpower to stay alive.
And yet the conversation remains on whether it is right to make someone feel bad about their media consumption or at what point you get an ally sticker. So much of trans advocacy ends at "well boycott the witch"
For the love of God if people only cared a single fraction about trans people the way they did about their own warm fuzzies or the flaw in their neighbour's soul.
You want to feel like you actually did a thing? Maybe find a charity funding trans rights activism in the UK and pop the money saved by pirating your damn wizard books in there ?
I don't see the words "irredeemable monster" anywhere other than in this post.
What it does mean is that they can't be bothered to let Rowling's behavior influence their decision making. When a so-called trans ally can's stop waving around their Harry Potter merch, I question their conviction. If they can't even abstain from helping to maintain the relevance and popularity of a property directly benefiting one of the most prominent transphobes on the planet, at what point will they stand up? Should I believe someone who can't stop yapping about this franchise in front of me is suddenly going to shift their priorities if someone harasses me on the street?
I don't expect that they'll join in and actively make it worse, but I'd be a fool to look to them for support. It signals that they care more about convenience than they do putting their foot down about trans people being mistreated.
Uh, no what they're saying is that buying a particular book is actually no t exactly equivalent to genocide. Supporting somebody with shitty views sure, but these days there's a lot of those
To that I would add that if you want to recommend such content to others it should preferably done with the addition of how others could access it through alternative means. Just to reduce the chance the recommendation leads to any extra income.
You're doing great, friend. You mean like talk about torrenting? Mostly yes. Looks like your instance says you can talk about piracy, so long as you don't link to any pirated content, or links to piracy sites. I guess you can still talk about streaming or file sharing platforms that show up on the first page when you google.
Even if you download it and J.K.R. doesn't see a penny you're still engaging with media that is anti-trans and that's just as bad. There is no ethical consumption of her work, full stop.
There is nothing in the books itself that is anti trans (AFAIK and remember), it is that people equate her works with her political views which are anti trans. As a most likely trans person myself (still working out the details of it, stay tuned) I have a real struggle at my hands. On the one hand her books were a massive part of my childhood and early teens. I waited in line out side book stores to get the newest one. On the other hand she uses the money she gets from licenses and the IP to fund anti trans organisations. She also uses her fame / reach to spread TERF points of view. I enjoy and love the world she created back then but I cannot in good conscience consume anything that supports her now. Not any merch, series, film or game.
I on my ow may not make a difference but the sum is more than it parts. If enough ppl. start voicing their objection to her and her views, boycott the new stuff because of her, some change might be possible. If not, sacrificing something I loved growing up is an acceptable price to pay to keep me and others safe.
Do not beat yourself up for enjoying things just because the overarching capitalist system exploits your enjoyment to fuel bigotry and oppression. There is no ethical consumption under capitalism. So long as you yourself are not directly committing harm, don't shame yourself for reading a book, watching a show, enjoying a soda, or whatever other little comfort that helps you stay sane in this capitalist dystopia.
Is it fair? No but the system wasn't designed to be fair.
How is this difficult to understand? She wrote the books. The books are hers. The books themselves promote anti-trans attitudes, regardless of whether or not they have anti-trans themes. Anyone who still consumes any of her work is transphobic. It really is that simple.
I have a lot of nostalgia for Final Fantasy 7. Amazingly, when I played Trails in the Sky many years later, I did kind of feel that nostalgia for a well-made JRPG. I guess I’m saying it’s possible.
If you're looking for something to read and haven't read it yet, try Douglas Addams The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. It's (edit: not) public domain.
It's not even close to Harry Potter, more of a sci fi comedy, but you won't regret reading it. When I finally got around to reading it, I couldn't put it down after I started, and this was well into the time where I was mostly playing video games instead of reading anything. Iirc, I read the first two in that first sitting, went to sleep, then read the rest the next day.
Having read all five books of the trilogy as well as Eoin Colfer's And Another Thing, I 100% support this suggestion even though it's not what I'm looking for here.
Or, maybe, look at those books with critical eyes for the first time in your life, and realise how shit it is, and how much it is littered with awful terrible takes. And read another book maybe.
Disliking a chefs dish based on their political stance or personal opinion no matter how wrong isnt going to solve anything about it, just a giant waste of energy
Interacting with the new show, even through piracy, leads to more voices talking about it and making Rowling’s cash-cow culturally relevant. It also normalises the shit takes she pushes through her stories at children.
I don’t like Ben Shapiro, and wouldn’t pay a dime for his streaming service. But pirating Chip Chilla to show to my kids still gives him a say in how me and my family view the world.
Why does Rowling get a pass? Because I happened to read her racist, classist tripe when I was a kid?
Better off, pirate it and donate the price of the media to the Trevor Project or something (can someone recommend a British trans charity in the replies, for example?)
Still helps to promote engagement. People can do what they want, but if you really want to make a stand on this, then completely ignoring it is the only way.
This and just act mature about it with a critical judgement.
Regardless what Rowling says the wizarding world, which is a mix of common mythology and has folklore huge queer potential. Its hard to find media that portrays something like it this well.
The series will have its flaws, the writer will make sure of that, but she will also be too shortsighted to recognise the extension and personal touched by everyone else involved that may not agree with her viewpoints.
Attention is still cause for future contracts, which is how she makes money. Because at that point, publishers and companies just go "this was our money, these are missed sales because of piracy". They're well aware of any pirated media and see it as demand.
I was considering playing hogwarts legacy a while back, I decided if I bought it I would donate double what I paid for the game to mermaids.
Whatever fraction of a share of the cost goes to Rowling and whatever fraction of that she uses to push her hateful agenda probably does less harm than mermaids does good.
Conceptually I view it as similar to putting sin taxes on things which are harmful to society but difficult to prohibit (alcohol, tobacco, unhealthy food etc.)
I wound up not buying it because there are other games to play from better franchises and my HP nostalgia isn't all that strong, but I think this is a reasonable approach.
Way ahead of you. I remember when The Half Blood Prince came out, there were leaked photographs of the whole book online a few days early. There was a massive collaborative transcription of the low quality photos into an ebook. Fun times.
Yeah. There's a lot of literature. Don't have to marry this one. When Gaiman was found to be a creep, I gave up some of my favorites. And yet there is still more to fill the gap.
that's the thing. there are millions of other GOOD books. HP is slop. I say that as someone who LOVED HP. But rowling made me fall out of love with it. She's such a bigoted POS that she deserve nothing but condemnation. I was a massive pothead, so if i can give it up, anyone can.
her books were always about her "real beliefs" just hidden behind her writing. family guy joked about her writing-anti-trans years before she went full terf.
I agree with you that Terry Pratchett is so much better. But it's not very comparable. Harry Potter lives from the comfy feeling of a magical boarding school and the classic "chosen one" thing. It's easy reading and draws a very clear imagery in the minds of the readers. The disc world is a bit more... Abstract I guess?
So I'd rather pirate Harry Potter if it's something that interests you. And definitely also read Terry Pratchett, simply because it is better.
The best way to enjoy something that may benefit a problematic person is to simply acquire it in a way that doesn't benefit them. Perhaps whilst on board a ship with a nice barrel of grog.
There’s a plethora of artists to choose from that aren’t assholes. These folks keep talking about opening mind to other points of view. If that’s their stance then they can open mind to new options.
The root of the problem being people giving millions of moneys to bigots, which then use those money to hurt people.
There are other books written, by people who don't hurt anyone.
Are you sure? Maybe they are child abusers, or spousal abusers or tax frauds or so many other possible bad things. Can you really be sure that your approved author/actor/athlete/celeb isn't a bad person? Do you really know any of them to be positive? Or is it ok to like them so long as you don't know that they are bad people but it only becomes wrong if they are publicly outed as bad? I don't and won't do anything to financially support JKR now but I'm not going to burn any of my books by her.
I'm not attacking. But I will remind people of the money that the author will continue to get as her business grows and makes movie/tv/game deals. I won't attack someone for buying a Tesla, either, but will remind them that buying said Tesla funds a Nazi's wallet.
I sometimes get ChiFilA food. It's convenient, my family likes the food, and somewhat affordable. I also know what horrible people that own that company believe. I don't go nearly as much now, and attempt to dissuade my family from going there. Now Hobbly Lobby? Strict ban hammer on that shithole. So much fucking monsterous, vile shit from that place.
You shouldnt stay away from hobby lobby. Their LP may range from inept to nonexistent, but if you consider the regular discounts their prices cant be beat.
When they stole artifacts I was irritated, but rich fucks do that kinda shit all the time. Then they starting pushing for control of their female employee's health, then the two things that sent me: pretending to be Christian but forcing employees to work during a pandemic cause "my wife said God said it's ok", then mass firing after the vaccine came out, and then funding hate groups. They are nothing more than WCN Nazis.
My parents moved a few months ago, and that meant I had to come over and decide what to do with some of the stuff I owned that was still at their house. I sorted things into "keep" and "throw away" piles.
One of the things I had to decide on was my Harry Potter books. My parents were surprised I put them in the "throw away" pile. It was hard for a moment, not because of what they were, but because I remember the day my dad came home and surprised me with books 2 and 3. I had read the first book for school, but the first 4 books had already been published by the time I got into it, so my friends were well ahead of me. I was so happy when my dad spontaneously did that. I hadn't asked for the books, but he knew I wanted them and went out of his way to get them just to surprise me. I felt so loved.
As I held those same books in my hands, 25 years since first receiving them, I took in that loved feeling, but it was twinged with disgust for JK Rowling. Although it pained me, I knew I wouldn't be reading them again. In my internal monologue, I told myself, "These books served their purpose long ago. It's okay to let them go and move on."
So into the "throw away" pile they went. The only things worth keeping anymore are the memories and experiences that those books originally opened up to me, and those can't be tossed out even if I wanted to. Putting the books into that pile felt like visiting a wake - the series is dead to me now, and with this final viewing, I could have closure over it and finally say goodbye.
I think there's something to be said for having to throw away things tied to precious memories because those things are tainted by a bitch who couldn't just shut the fuck up and be happy with her success.
But this is exactly the type of thing I mean when I say that some people's advocacy against JKR bleeds over into the lives of innocent people just trying to live.
I would never be able to throw away a gift my father had given me. Nobody should be pressuring anyone else to do the same just because they find something problematic (not for its actual contents, but because it's author is a hate monger).
People forget that there are real and cherished memories attached to this franchise and whether they intend to or not, they do attack them when they make media like this, or post about how terrible a person must be for having engaged with said media.
Just because something is trivial for you to excise from your life doesn't mean it's as easy for the next person.
When people spread further hatred because they feel self righteous about something that has wronged them, they aren't making things better.
I don't even engage with the franchise anymore. Most of what I know about it from the last decade has been from media posts like this bashing it or telling people how evil Rowling is. I wouldn't know there was a tv show, wouldn't have known about the game l, wouldn't have known about the universal park etc if it weren't for posts like this.
Did you throw away all your Disney media? Would you still visit a Disney or universal park? Engage with the studio that made the game or the company producing the show?
There's so much to how media gets made and how many companies are still actively supporting this bigot and instead of attacking those corporations we attack each other for no really good reason except that it makes some people feel superior.
Nobody ever shouts out the organizations that she donates to. Nobody ever mentions where they get their funding. Nobody ever talks about boycotting the companies making the media (not the media itself) until they stop supporting franchises like HP.
Does that make sense? It's never made sense to me.
I mean, when you are going through piles of old sh*t to keep or trash, by, like, the second hour, you just want to throw it all away. Ain't no one got time to find a person who wants each one of their things that they don't want to keep anymore.
Thank you for saying this, that's the point in time we were at. My parents had rented a dumpster, and that final cleaning was the last day before they had to return it, and two days before the new homeowners were set to move in.
Meanwhile, at the same time, I had just moved into a tiny little studio apartment. I have almost no storage/furniture, and no money to buy any. Most of my things are still in boxes because I have nowhere else to keep them. Boxes still fill my car now (months later), to the point that my 4-seater can't hold a single passenger. I can't overstate just how little space I have.
Point is, I had to cut down to only the necessities. Holding onto the book set would've just been more clutter taking up space that I need for more important things. Which reminds me, I have to dig out the boxes that have my summer clothes and do the switcharoo with my winter clothes (which I currently store in a luggage bag. I don't even have a dresser!)
Yes just dump stuff, we have more where that came from. What a terrible way to look at resources.
It is so easy today to have people come by and pick things up or even go through stuff on their own. But no, why should we share etc. when you can just dump everything? I was in the unfortunate situation to empty the whole apartment of a friend that passed, we had to do it within one day. No, we did not just dump everything.
I think we should normalize acknowledging reality. JK Rowling is a POS, Neil Gaiman is a POS, many others are POS or problematic for different reasons. A lot of products are owned by problematic companies. Some have better alternatives.
Bashing people for it is just going to make people tune you out though. Just be aware. I'm really not interested in the Harry Potter show. But the movies are a staple. If I see Tom Cruise is in a movie I get a lot less interested in it. I still like Edge of Tomorrow though.
They are easy to read and were some people's introduction to fantasy/fiction (not everything is as dull as school assignments) and a set of shared experiences growing up.
Even when the books were written I found even the concept pretty stupid. "You need a wand to do magic" 🤷♂️ "We can teleport but you have to use a train to get to school" 🤦♂️ And the story is a ripoff of too many previous stories.
They came out at peak millennial, at the intersection of shared cultural experiences and early social media. Before the internet a book wouldn't go global like HP did, and after algorithmic feeds there haven't really been cultural experiences shared so broadly.
I am too old to have any for this series, but still even if I did, I don't understand why you can't drop it. I realise plenty of the things I liked in my childhood was commercialised nonsense, and I have no desire to keep revisiting it.
So many people in this thread defend J.K. Rowling, or at least the Harry Potter works, under the guise that Rowling's anti-trans positions are just an opinion. She does so much more than just talk. She uses her personal fortune made directly from Harry Potter to fund legal attacks on the rights of transgender people in the UK.
Imagine if Elon Musk showed up one day to fund a civil case against you for playing rec league soccer or to get you fired from your job. This is what the beginning of genocide looks like. It may take years to get to the camps and the ovens, but we will get there. Hell, the camps are already built here in the US, and they will house more than the transgender.
Best way to punish RFK, sorry I mean JKR is for some LGBTQ+ people to shoot videos telling how HP helped them to come out of hiding and reveal their true self to the world. They can go onto to say things like HP has given them the courage to fight for this cause and in some cases, thanks to this courage, they ended up working in institutes that sets policies regarding LGBTQ+ rights.
OK, this is a tough one and what I'm about to say might get me some dislikes. Let me just say something that might soften the blow: Fuck Rowling, her transphobia, and the bigots that defend her wretched views. Even if she decided, in an alternative timeline, to keep her loudmouth shut, she would still be the scum of the earth for her views on trans people. I repeat, Fuck Rowling.
Now, with that out the way, let's address the crux of the issue. I know that many of you in the LGBTQ+ community grew up with the franchise and enjoyed it long before Rowling exposed her true colors. If you're LGBTQ+ and you decide to reconcile, in some way, with the franchise without directly supporting Rowling, you're well within your rights to do so. The nostalgia you feel for something that brought you joy in your youth is yours to keep. No one, not even the creator themselves, can take that from you. As for the products themselves? You can: buy the books secondhand, pirate the movies, pirate the EPUBs if you have an e reader and buy fan-made merch from LGBTQ+-friendly sellers.
If decided to not reconcile with the franchise, you're also well within your rights to do so. Rowling has to made aware of the damage her views have on people. Demonstrate the hypocrisy of writing about a group of outsiders finding a place of acceptance and discovering their true selves and espousing bigoted rhetoric towards a discriminated group wanting acceptance for their true selves. There's plenty of other fictional universes you can draw your attention towards (more on that in a moment) that are far less problematic and worthier of your time.
If you're an ally (like myself), it's best that we don't engage with the franchise all together out of support. For me, this isn't a problem since I didn't engage with the franchise all that much in my youth (I was more of a LOTR fan). If you do decide to reconcile, much of what I have already said still applies.
In short, the question of reconciliation is a personal matter. So long as Rowling isn't benefiting, you should be happy with your decision and the stand you take. As for alternatives? Well...
I'll shit on JK as much as anyone, but I gotta say, I know a lot of trans people who own Hogwarts Legacy on steam... Most aren't huge HP fans or even read the books.
I can’t speak for others, but my bar for installing another app on my PC is pretty high. It’s probably worth it for the number of free games, but I wouldn’t have done it just for the HP game.
This is more of a general answer and not specifically about Hogwarts Legacy:
I mean, if I want to play a game now I don’t wait for years for the possibility that it becomes free for a week (and the chance that I don’t miss the giveaway). And if I have a steam deck, I maybe still want to own it on steam.
Even if a book I read as a teenager was the best book of all time and the author was the greatest person to ever live who was literally Jesus I would still read other books because being a literate adult requires one to read a wide variety of new material over time lol
On rare occasions, no YA books unless I'm reading them to a kid. I'm not going to reread the The Chronicles of Narnia either. I haven't read Harry Potter because it came out when I was in college but I don't believe from what I know that there is enough substance to Harry Potter to make me want reread them if I had.
I read about a book every week and am in multiple book clubs and have a huge list of books to read so going back and reading fluff from when I was a kid is not going to make the cut because I am an adult. The point I made is about actual literacy though, if you are just rereading the same books and not engaging with the wide variety of works and authors through time you aren't really exercising your literacy muscles. I loved the Hitchhikers Guide series too, but I already read it and probably won't read it again. There are more books to read than I have life to live.
I feel like this is aimed at the new tv series. It's more about not watching the new content and not rereading.
I've seen people demonizing watching then discussing it with friends, since it's spreading it, even if you don't buy it. I get it since jk is basically trans enemy number 1, but it does feel a bit intense. That being said, If I watch it, I'm pirating it and not really discussing it with anyone since I have no friend, so I don't have to worry about it.
Man, I have literally heard people say you should burn the books and movies you probably already owned long before Rowling was known to be a TERF. The art isn't the problem. As long as you're not continuing to financially support the bitch herself, Harry Potter himself ain't gonna harm trans people.
Yeah, that's my only explanation for that kind of a name for a black person. Whether or not it was intentional, I have to assume she's massively racist, as are all of her editors/publisher. Too many people has the opportunity to say 'what the fuck, lady', and it still went to print.
That was likely overzealous religious folk. Because it had magic and witches it was deemed by them to be demonic. I'm quite sure they would be surprised to learn the author of the books they hated was an ally for one of their other beliefs.
My kids and I read Harry Potter a lot. We love it and it's been a good bonding experience.
We limit our consumption of Harry Potter though. We read the books, watch the old movies and occasionally (once a year) maybe, purchase a lego set.
I have explained to my kids that I would rather not support JK Rowling due to her stance on trans people and for the most part they are cool with things.
I am certainly still not helping but I believe my kids understand pretty well
Wow, great example to set for your kids. Instead of just finding a different (probably better) series to bond over, you show them that it's not worth actually adhering to your stated values. Great lesson.
I remember when the first book was published and everyone was losing their minds. One of my 9th grade classes was English or literature or something, it was a long time ago I don’t remember, and our teacher would read it to us and I remember thinking it was just ok and if we had to sit here and listen to her read she should pick something more interesting/challenging/better written but most people in class were obsessed
Yep, second one is the worst by miles. There's lots of cool bits in it, but the overall narrative is a mess. The basilisk is also seriously dodgy-looking in several shots.
The first one is significantly more kiddy than the others, but it's really well-executed.
First one gets a lot of praise and passes because it's the introduction to the world. Everyone knows the origin story is the best part so it's fine if it's rough around the edges. Also if you've only seen one Harry Potter movie, it's going to be that one for obvious reasons.
I personally feel that it's perfectly fine to boycott problematic figures. Speech has real effects and should be treated like it.
But once you accept the equivalence of speech/reading and violence you can start choosing to regulate speech/reading as violence, or free up violence as speech. I don't think either is a great idea. Do you think that any of you have never said something hurtful to others? Should you be jailed for it?
I await all the civil and non-hurtful replies from peaceful and sympathetic people I am likely to garner for this stance.
Thanks, stranger. I hope you live and are happy even if we someday come to disagree on some things. You are more important to me than almost any disagreement.
I know its a hyperbolic example (though entirely possible in the context you describe)
What would be your thoughts on speech that had the effectual equivalent of murder?
There's no traps here im just interested in the thought process behind the context you provided.
Side note: if verbal violence is possible then it would probably track that there are degrees of violence, much like the physical equivalent.
If that's true the argument that you shouldn't regulate subjectively heavy violence because "who here hasn't physically hurt someone?" Isn't a reasonable as it sounds at first glance.
For the record, Rowling is a shitbag, the potter books are mediocre and the actors were the best thing about the movies.
None of that bias is in the foundation of my questions though.
Speech equivalent to murder? Well calls to violence, or criminal conspiracy are crimes. But that's kind of a cop-out because they lead to eventual killing via non-speech means.
Actual murder via speech would be... stuff like shouting fire in a crowded movie theater. (This is also already a crime.)
I did say it was somewhat hyperbolous but there are real life examples that are possible.
Something like extended bullying directly leading to suicide, lies with the intention of causing harm or death.
Calls to violence that lead to deaths that otherwise wouldn't likely happen is a good example of one that can be technically correct but difficult to prove.
Intentionally telling someone a door leads to safety when it actually leads to a spike pit is effectually the same as stabbing them yourself.
Are those examples good enough for an answer?
Im looking for how the idea holds up at the logical extreme so I can understand the bounds of the theoretical context.
There doesn't have to be a good answer either, some ideas only work in a limited boundary and break down at the extremes.
I know this is a bit of an extreme example. Leaving an abusive spouse leads to suicides. You can't blanket assign responsibility in all cases. It needs to be reasonable.
In cases of targeted harassment, sure. I think cases like that have gone to trial.
But if seeing someone walk into a book signing by a woman with regressive views on trans related stuff tips someone over the edge to suicide I don't feel that's reasonably assignable blame. Seeing J.K.Rowling succeed is such a minor thing compared to the child raping cannibal cults we have running things. It just does not even register.
Calls to violence are outright crimes where I live, whether any violence occurs or not. I think you might get a lighter sentence if nothing happens, not sure. Just like you don't get off with no charges if you shoot at someone and miss.
Most consumerism is problematic and you can blame most people for something, just take your time and you will find something: Are you drinking milk? Are you eating meat? Do you drink beer or smoke cigarettes? Do you use Social Networks like Instagram, Facebook or TikTok? Do you buy stuff on Amazon? Do you use ChatGPT? Do you drive a car even though you could travel by foot, train, bus or bike? Do you watch soccer? Do you watch porn? Congratulations, you are probably supporting something shitty.
That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try to change things. But offending people for doing some of these things never helped. It often just achieves the opposite. Try to encourage others, show them alternatives. Etc.
What's with people who are like "Let's compromise with evil and have a little evil, then." I've been dropping things I enjoyed when I find out the person is either a sex pest or bigoted. I liked Disturbed for example, then found out their front man is a zioniest.
Finding alternatives isn’t hard tho. There’s like a plethora of magic school books from 2012 onwards. alerting people isnt the problematic thing while we are literally in a wold of countless options and claiming you can’t find any is just you being difficult and lazy.
Some people actually need an angry remark to know they are being an asshole, so there's no need to say all negative activism is bad. Sometimes, it indeed does the opposite of helping, but the same can be argued for positivity. You'll get laughed at sharing vegan recipes if the person challenging you doesn't think animal rights even matter. But them dismissing you isn't necessarily your fault for doing activism "the wrong way".
Even if you do none of those it just keeps going. Coffee? Using too much plastic? Drinking 90% of soda brands?
I just like to think of it like "these things are bad, what good can I do rather than trying to cut out every bad thing?" If every HP fan supported the author by buying it, but then volunteered in a soup kitchen one time, they've done far more good than bad.
It's rarely so cut and dry how the money you spend will be used to hurt people. And it's also rare for such visible harm to be tied to something so unnecessary. You can move on from this 20 year old children's book, I'm sure it'll be okay.
If every HP fan supported the author by buying it, but then volunteered in a soup kitchen one time, they’ve done far more good than bad.
Good and evil aren't interchangeable, fungible quantities. You can't punch 20 babies in the face and then feed 100 starving orphans and expect people to forget about one due to the other. The babies stay punched and the orphans stay fed.
With respect to HP in particular, supporting someone who actively and successfully campaigns against trans right hurts trans people. (And tells us that y'all care more about a children's story than you do living, breathing human beings). Volunteering at a soup kitchen after donating to the exterminate trans people fund doesn't undo the donation. It does feed some hungry people, but again doing "good" doesn't erase having done "evil"; both acts still occured.
What people are saying here is literally "please don't donate to the trans extermination project."
Finally, there being no ethical consumption under capitalism is an indictment of consumption, not an absolution for any/all consumption. Just because all consumption falls short of perfect ethics doesn't mean it's all equally unethical. This should be obvious.
That's not wrong but I'm not expecting anyone to forget about the negatives. If you punch 0 babies but you are so worried about causing harm that you're miserable all the time and doing less good as a result, the world is on the whole worse off. It's not a math equation but I would rather someone eats meat if that means they're working to change the industry rather than someone who doesn't eat meat and does nothing. Someone actively working against transphobia and contacting whoever their officials are and canvassing does far more than their $20 does.
I'm just saying there's no possible way to exist without doing harm, anything you can cut out you should, but if it's to the point where it's stopping you from doing good in the world, that might be the line you should stop at.
I've historically been an advocate for separating the art from the artist.
For example, I know that Kovarex is a piece of shit but I still enjoy factorio. I actively avoid learning about the musicians I listen to. I do not want to know about the personal lives of the authors of the books I like.
But this bitch has taken it too far. There's only so much I can ignore. I will never spend another cent on anything related to her works, nor will I recommend them to anyone.
I don't know, but as I grew older and the world became more harsh, out of cynicism I stopped investing in so much pop culture and especially personalities who have or could possibly make an about-face.
I have never even had an inner monologue about wanting to support of continue consume the work or someone who made something I like after they've got outed for bad shit. It's just and instant "damn, sucks to loose that thing but that's all there is too it."
I seriously don't understand people who do that and the whole "separate the art from the artist" shit.
We have more than enough of literally everything, you aren't giving up something that nothing else can replace. There's more stuff to like and discover from nice people than anyone can fit in their lifetime.
This is probably a minority take, but I feel like it might be important to watch this show if you want to have conversations with people in your life about JKR. If you don't want to have conversations, absolutely ignore it.
Obviously, don't spend money on it supporting her, but the overwhelming likelihood is that the show will be at least passably good. For better or worse, it's a beloved IP and HBO has a solid history.
The conversations about the show will happen, and if I want to steer that conversation in my life, I need to be able to offer and interject something other than "Hey, did you know JKR is the richest woman in Britain and a massive piece of shit?"
Know thy enemy.
My pet peeve with Harry Potter is the Confederate ideology with slaves and house elves. If I want to have that conversation (I do), I'm going to need some familiarity to offer critique and highlight how they're treating it and if they're treating it differently.
I was never into the Harry Potter IP. Can someone please summarize who was executed and who don't allow who to watch some tv show?? I'm really out of the loop.
The author spends almost every bit of income she gets on funding anti-transgender organisations and literal fascists (such as Posie Parker), whose lobbying efforts have turned every major British party against transgender healthcare, resulting in transgender healthcare becoming practically inaccessible through legal means with waiting lists lasting decades.
In terms of its material impact, buying HP merch is equivalent to buying a swastika flag from a neonazi store. You can be assured that every cent of profit will go to funding fascism. The only difference is the aesthetic of having HP merch versus having nazi merch.
Don't forget the part where Rowling and Epstein were so close that people looking to get in touch with Rowling would contact Epstein to set up the meeting.
I wonder how many boys and girls read HP on the island...
Thanks, now i have some clue! But have you considered a magazine she insulted may not be the most reliable source to cite? It is basically a hit piece with parts where internet randos are bashing her.
Your outrage is meaningless. You're screaming into a void that either already agrees with you or doesn't give a shit.
I don't give a shit. Your argument is hollow and rings of hurt feeling and betrayal. Of the hundreds of upvotes most consume corprate media that funds worse people.
This isn't a noble grand stand, you're just butthurt and picked a popular target to hate. Manufactured transphobe Nickleback.
She's an active and very outspoken billionaire anti trans rights lobbiest that also donates a ton of money to other anti trans causes. Her works is the fighting grounds on whether you support her and align with her hate and ignorance, or condemn the hate and work against her getting any more contracts in the future and thus any more money. She's an absolute wretched human being.
Don't buy stuff that she gets money from. Don't watch stuff that she gets money from.
Don't participate in anything that gives her any more power.
The difference between her and other artists is in power. She has WAY more power and is actively using it and being successful. Trans people already have it super shitty, and it gets shittier everyday because of people like her and Musk.
Stop watching HP. Stop reading HP. Let it go. You don't need to even pirate it. Just move on. There's plenty of way better stuff out there. You'll be okay.
Pirating is still consumption. I never made an argument against it. And there are plenty of perspectives (none that I personally agree with) that will argue that pirating media is unethical. Also, not everyone can pirate things, not everyone is that tech savvy to not get caught, and denying themselves simple comforts does nothing to stop the system from being what it is. Also, not everything can be pirated in the case of physical objects for people who want to indulge in a fandom.
No matter what you purchase under capitalism, you are supporting bigotry and oppression to some degree. There is no escaping it. So instead of arguing about the arbitrary line at which the degree of separation is far enough removed before you can enjoy something without guilt, maybe start talking about actually dismantling the system that allows them to oppress others to begin with?
Theres also a massive distinction between consuming something necessary/important, vs consuming something 100% optional.
Harry Potter isnt food, shelter, or any other kind of critical necessity.
Theres literally countless better alternatives to Harry Potter media you can choose to consume from that doesnt directly put money straight into the pocket of someone actively funding direct harm
This isn't multiple layers of washing here, that money basically goes straight towards actively harming minority groups.
Its not even a good fucking book, and I used to be a fan of it as a kid, but I went back and read my old books and... it just fuckin sucks dawg, its not good lol.
Idk your situation but if you support harry potter after all the heinous shit jk has said she has and will do we are not and never will be friends, you are voting with your dollars to hurt people.
I havent paid a single cent to HP franchise in ages. But I still find books cool. Should I disregard quality/fun aspect of something even if creator of that thing is a POS and I havent gave them any money in a very long time?
You can't easily change what you enjoy, I would take what you like from it and explore other similar properties. If hp is something that has special meaning to you i get it, I would just hope you don't support the creator.
You can like and enjoy the Harry Potter fictional setting without supporting JK and her TERF bullshit. They are two separate things.
"Voting with your dollar" is a shortsighted reaction. You fail to understand the meaning behind "no ethical consumption under capitalism". It doesn't matter where you spend your dollars, it is inevitably supporting bigotry and oppression because of the simple fact that every sale is being profited off of by the owning-class and the e.pirialost system.
Or did you forget that our taxes are currently funding Israel's genocide?
Again, be mad at the system, not the victims of it.
To be clear i hate the system I'm stuck in, and had i the power to stop the genocide i would, in the meantime I'm telling you she has stated unequivocally that all the money she makes off the harry potter series will be put into her organization that is on a crusade to eliminate trans people. If you give her money by buying merch, watching her show, drawing fanart even, you are giving her attention and that can lead to others saying oh it's okay to like this thing and that gets her more power money and influence. There is no ethical consumption but this is a hard line I will not intentionally consume something that has a direct line to hurting people, saying it's impossible to do good is a fucking weak excuse to not try.
Again, you're missing the point. Just completely and blatantly missing the point.
No one is handing money directly to JK. She is receiving money through a convoluted system of private ownership that enables her to demand royalty payments for the usage of the Harry Potter universe. She is making money off the back of other people just wanting to make their own art and works of this fictional universe.
Through your logic, there is literally not a single thing you can purchase that cannot be directly traced through our system of economics to funding or supporting something atrocious. That is the entire meaning behind "no ethical consumption under capitalism". You literally cannot escape it unless you abstain entirely from utilizing the capitalist system.
Yet I'm sure you still purchase things. Because you choose for yourself which things to justify and which things not to based on your own arbitrary standards you set for yourself.
Let other people do the same for themselves and quit shaming them because their arbitrary line doesn't fall where yours does.
Be mad at the system that enables bigots to consolidate power and profit off of other people and the things they enjoy.
So instead of telling people they shouldn't directly give money to bigots i should just be angry at capitalism in general because it enables bigots.
No.
There is a new show because people asked for it, it's gonna make her money because there will be new merch, subscription money, and renewed interest in the books from new people exposed to the show.
It isn't a magic money machine it's the market and people saying let people enjoy things are enabling others to think that this new batch of terf powered hog wash is acceptable and it will make the lives of an already marginalized group harder.
Thanks for being the voice of reason.
Wish more people could see things this way because I really hate when people start whining about my blood diamonds collection.
I just like shinny shit, let me enjoy it ffs.
Although, both are unnessential and both enrich awful ppl so...
Also, according to the logic on the meme you shared, its wrong to critizise ppl who buy diamonds because we should let them enjoy them.
Also also, critizising someone for economically supporting awfull ppl by buying their shit is not stopping them from enjoying said shit. Nobody is taking away their stuff, they can ignore us. However asking ppl to stay silent in the name of someones enjoyment is an attempt to make us give away our freedom to express our opinion.
Also, also also, What if I like critizising them? Let me enjoy it goddamn it!
Yeah, let JK Rowling do the entertaining, it was kind of her job.
In February 2023, Rowling participated in the podcast The Witch Trials of J.K. Rowling, hosted by former Westboro Baptist Church member Megan Phelps-Roper and produced by Bari Weiss’s The Free Press. The show purported to add more nuance to the controversy surrounding Rowling, but in practice it mostly served as another pulpit for the author. Part of the draw was that Rowling gave a forthright interview on her beliefs about trans people for the first time. “I believe, absolutely, that there is something dangerous about this movement and that it must be challenged,” she said.
She then compared trans people to Death Eaters, the evil collective in the Harry Potter books that are often read as a Nazi analogue. “Some of you have not understood the books. The Death Eaters claimed, ‘We have been made to live in secret, and now is our time, and any who stand in our way must be destroyed. If you disagree with us, you must die,’” Rowling said. “They demonized and dehumanized those who were not like them.”
“I am fighting what I see as a powerful, insidious, misogynistic movement that has gained huge purchase in very influential areas of society,” Rowling continued. “I do not see this particular movement as either benign or powerless, so I’m afraid I stand with the women who are fighting to be heard against threats of loss of livelihood and threats to their safety.”
No matter what you purchase under capitalism, you are supporting bigotry and oppression to some degree. There is no escaping it. So instead of arguing about the arbitrary line at which the degree of separation is far enough removed before you can enjoy something without guilt, maybe start talking about actually dismantling the system that allows them to oppress others to begin with?
I'm over 40.
I gave up Bill Cosby. I gave up Kevin Spacey. I gave up all of the 80s and 90s movies about toxic masculinity and misogyny. I gave up Aerosmith (maybe Steven Tyler hasn't been canceled yet but COME ON have you heard the lyrics to any single one of his songs). I gave up Michael Richards (and Seinfeld too). I gave up Michael Jackson.
You can give up Harry Potter. It's the right thing to do, it's worth it, and it's the adult decision. Grow up and check your allegiances. They'll define you.
I'm not giving up the books I bought decades ago and before she outed herself as an idiot.
I'm not stopping enjoying the stories that helped me to grow into the person I am today.
I'm not pretending that as a gay kid having a positive gay role model in Dumbledore wasn't a wonderful thing.
I am not giving her anymore money.
I am not supporting her an anyway.
You can hate a person's opinions and still love their art.
Its almost like everyone is human and capable of holding contradictory ideas.
While you’re keeping an open mind then You can also expand your options to include artists who don’t have to be an asshole.
Separate the artist from the art doesnt just have to happen if they are an asshole.
There’s like a plethora of magic school books and films and tv series especially circa 2012 onward to dig into by other artists trying to compete. Sounds like a perfect opportunity to give them a chance.
You gonna watch the new show?
No, obviously.
Pirate it so it doesn’t show up on their dashboards as a view.
A hate-watch is still a view
Piracy = popularity. The big studios take torrent popularity as a metric these days. Even if you're not paying for the show, everyone seeding and downloading that torrent is being used as a sign by the industry that they should keep giving Rowling money which she, in turn, uses to harm people.
Pirating her content is still making her rich, while also granting her a deeper foothold in your own media environment, heart, and mind. You deserve better, and you can do better.
Torrents aren't the only form of piracy.
It's really not that hard to find something else to watch.
Great job moving the goalpost.
All piracy is popularity.
It literally isn't.
I'll probably watch the first couple episodes just out of curiousity. I'm already paying for the service. It's going to get watching by my family regardless. I'm getting outrage fatigue if I am being honest. It's just hard to care about anything these days.
Might want to rethink Michael Jackson. A lot of what he’s been accused of turned out to be an Epstein smear campaign when he interfered with their ops. McCauley Caulkin spoke out about this recently.
Got a source?
Mac culkin and Corey Feldman have both talked about MJ positively many times in the past few years.
I mean that's great and all but a real source would be nice. Someone who was a kid speaking nicely about someone accused of harming kids, isn't an exoneration. That's like Kanye saying Nick Fuentes isn't racist.
Note not taking either side on the topic. I don't know or really care that much on MJ, an actual useful source would be say an epstein letter where epsteins announcing they want to make MJ look guilty. Fully plausible that MJ's scandal was a combination of people saying he's weird, with a few chasing a paycheck. But someone who fits the demographic saying "I was around him for years and I was never abused", is IMO not evidence.
Corey Feldman is the reason I don't believe the accusations against MJ. What that kid went through is horrific and predators can smell prey a mile away. If Michael was abusing kids there is no way he would have missed that one, Corey would have been an easy target after what they did to him. But Corey comes out and tries to shine a light on the things that are happening and specifically says that Michael never did anything inappropriate.
I always knew it was a set-up. I looked up to him as a kid, and people made fun of me for it, but I never believed the things they said about him.
He had a troubled past, he was eccentric and effeminate and that already made him a target for hate, but he genuinely seemed to care about kids and wanted to offer them a better childhood than the one he had.
It was a recipe for a PR shitstorm, especially when you throw "trying to disrupt an actual billionaire pedo ring funded by mossad" into the mix...
He didn't destroy McCauley, though. The publicity did. Imagine how confusing it must be to a child, to be torn away from your mentor, possibly the only person who sees you as a human and values you as such, who understands what a personal hell being a child star can be. All because he was accused of doing things to you, and the rest of the adults don't seem to care what you have to say about it...
And then having to finish growing up without your mentor, with all the meanness of the world amplified by fame and stigma, when no one will get near you or even mention your name except to make fun of you, and they all do it with this self-righteous smugness as if they're convinced to their bones that they're better than you, and they feel completely morally justified in their judgements, too...
Yeah, I never thought MJ was the bad guy. It's a bit of a relief to hear his name has been cleared after all these years, even if it's come too late. If he were alive today, I wonder if he would've ever come out as trans. I can only speculate now, as only he could ever make that determination for himself.
Anyway, I still remember listening on the radio when he was in the hospital, in cardiac arrest, and then being declared dead. It was a sad day for me. I think it was drug-related though, so I wonder if it still would've happened if he wasn't so hated. Or if he hadn't been so abused himself as a child. Again, just speculation, now...
You know, I have to wonder if that overdose was really accidental now. He pissed off some really powerful people who just don't accept being told "no."
That entire paragraph breaks my brain.
Why, cause you've spent your life hating someone who was not only innocent, but it now comes out that he was actually trying to disrupt a powerful cabal committing the actual crimes, and got accused as a result and a deflection?
Or because you're unwilling to admit that to yourself and reexamine the beliefs you're so accustomed to holding in that regard?
Thanks for the psych eval but no, it was more the guy from home alone revealing that MJ was a secret hero disrupting a crime ring, it's all very cinematic
Unfortunately, Rowling probably won't lose her millions (billions?) if we stop reading/watching her slop. But we CAN prevent her getting even more millions.
It's a children's story. I don't think you're asking for people to leap over mountains by giving up childhood things as an adult.
At the same time, people seem to fixate on the consumerist aesthetics and ignore the material realities. If you've got transgender friends and family that you support with your time and care and money, and you want to flip through an old dog-eared copy of Philosopher's Stone (or rewatch The Usual Suspects or throw on an episode of Fat Albert) because of nostalgia, I don't think you're committing any kind of grievous sin.
JK Rowling isn't going to stop being a billionaire because you played a HP themed video game or watched an episode of her rebooted book show on HBO.
Meanwhile, abstaining from all things problematic, without doing anything materially positive for any of the LGBTQ folks in your life isn't doing anyone any favors. Being a Consumerist Harpy who only knows how to scream at people for their mass media of choice, in the name of LGBTQ, is turning civil advocacy into some kind of branding exercise.
See also: Tesla
I don't know if you're trying to call me out or not, but I can assure you I am quite active in advocacy and direct action for queer folks in my life and ib my community. I'm not interested in writing up a resumė about it, but I'm not the tree to bark up with that one.
Which is great. A lot of folks are.
It's also great to hear what they're doing with their free time, as a positive rejoinder to "HP is toxic".
More interested in new progressive media than a 10 year old argument about a book that came out 20 years ago.
Cool. I choose not to post that here. Have a good rest of your day.
Rowling spends almost every bit of income she gets on funding anti-transgender organisations and literal fascists (such as Posie Parker), whose lobbying efforts have turned every major British party against transgender healthcare, resulting in transgender healthcare becoming practically inaccessible through legal means with waiting lists lasting decades.
In terms of its material impact, buying HP merch is equivalent to buying a swastika flag from a neonazi store. You can be assured that every cent of profit will go to funding fascism. The only difference is the aesthetic of having HP merch versus having nazi merch.
I think you're underselling how much she spends on country club memberships and private planes.
I've had a theory for a long time that many of the "LGBT advocate/ally" voices that participate in the discourse aren't actually doing so in our best interests. Many ways I've seen people who call themselves allies talk and act are more likely to push people away than educate.
Preferably I'd like if people could just let HP die and fade away, but beyond that just try not to give her royalty money, and if you can't do that then at the least i don't want to hear about it.
With enough time and a vacuum of marketing dollars, it will. The reboot is already flopping.
Hard to advocate for a boycott without hearing about the things you're boycotting.
The principle of a boycott is to pressure the business to change it's policies. The implication is that you'd come back if they reformed.
If you're really looking to replace a franchise rather than reform it, helps to fill the vacuum.
"I'm a big fan of X over Y, because it's got all the things I like without the crude" tends to bend more ears than "Stop doing Y without my permission!"
Michel Jackson allegation never been proven and most likely people thar said such allegation for money for it from tv producers.
I am really not convinced he abused children and it was never proven
Yeah, and let's not forget that Harry Potter is a series of books written for literal children.
It's time to grow up and read something written for actual adults. You might be surprised to find that HP is actually kind of shit.
Adults are allowed to read things written for children. Shaming people for that is ageist as fuck.
There are LOTS of good reasons to stop engaging with HP, but this ain’t one of them.
I don't think I ever suggested they shouldn't be?
Just don't be surprised when people mock you for it.
Ew, that’s not true either. Lemmy is NOT the place for gatekeeping assholes. Take that bullshit to X.
That's not really gatekeeping. Maybe gatekeeping a fully emotionally developed adult? But that's a bit of a stretch too. You can't just throw around buzzwords and expect it to mean anything. And you definitely can't be expected to be taken seriously.
Maybe if you put down the YA and read something age appropriate you'd get a better feel for adult interactions.
No. Gatekeeping was the polite way to say that you have no fucking right to stop someone from doing what they enjoy, as long as they aren’t harming someone else. I personally don’t read YA novels, but I will protect that right for everyone else.
The correct term, rather than gatekeeper, would be fascist. You can fuck right off if you’re going to try controlling what media a person consumes. If you truly think what you’re saying, you are a morally bankrupt human.
Is it gatekeeping to say that functioning adults who don't need them anymore shouldn't wear diapers?
With all that stretching and leaping you must be limber as fuck.
I would never stop anyone from doing anything that didn't harm someone else. But I will judge the fuck out of them. Disney adults, children's book readers, broneys, etc. are children's minds in adults bodies. If it's because of a disability, good for them, they should enjoy life in whichever way suits them. If not, it's pathetic and they should seek help with their personal growth.
Its literally not. Stop being a fucking twat.
I enjoy hard scifi, politics, health, ... and also enjoy some "for children" media. Just like I enjoy listening to metal, 80s, ... and also listening to jazz.
I don't read HP, and I wasn't going to get involved in this discussion. But then I saw your post. I deal with actual special needs people on the daily, and you saying shit like this is vile. I think you are the one who needs to start acting like an adult, maybe do a bit of self reflection.
Fair
They downvoted him for he spoke the truth.
MY decision is the ADULT decision. Ok buddy.... you're a big man now.
Oh yes laughing at an episode of seinfeld has DEFINED me as some who needs to GROW UP.
hahahah what a load of shite.
Tell me more about how mature you are.
I have the same one talk over and over with my wife. No other author gets that much slack from their fanbase.
"But its such great storytelling"
its not. Its mediocre and needs time travel to work.
This mentality misses the point, IMO. Even if the Harry Potter books were written in such a way that made even the staunchest critic go, "Wow, these books rival the works of of J.R.R. Tolkien and Shakespeare," that should have zero bearing on whether or not any given individual makes the decision to boycott an author's work on idealistic grounds.
I like plenty of art that could be classified as schlock; not everything we enjoy has to be masterpiece theatre. I've boycotted all HP content ever since Rowling became a professional asshole, but I won't pretend I didn't enjoy the books and the films as a teenager.
Here's a hard pill to swallow: shitty people can make good art. We can condemn bad people unequivocally without simultaneously needing their art to be bad. Michael Jackson was my favorite musician for many years, but hearing his music in 2026 always leaves a bad taste in my mouth. But I won't pretend that it wasn't my jam and I certainly won't suggest that the music was mediocre.
Edit: And although it goes without saying: this decision is always up to the individual. I have trans friends who don't concern themselves with Rowlings' sociopolitical views and continue to enjoy HP content. I don't begrudge them for that; we all have different, if arbitrary, boundaries.
Orson Scott Card.
I bought Ender's books before knowing what kind of shit is OSC. Now I wouldn't download a free pdf of anything from him.
Card is confounding because those first few Ender books are unequivocally about the importance of empathy and recognition of common personhood, even across seeming-impenetrable species boundaries, and how mutual respect and love are the most important quality a person can have. And then... yadda yadda yadda, OSC is a gigantic bigot. The. Fuck?
She's a bad writer AND a bad person AND a billionaire AND a political figure AND is successful AND is getting richer
My Immortal, a masterpiece in coherent plot, needs time travel to work too. I fail to see the alleged problem here.
How dare you compare an established monument of contemporary literature to something like Harry Potter?
I kinda want to read it now.
Enjoy!
My Immortal is an internet classic, and a bizarre time capsule of what youth subculture was like ~20 years ago.
Time travel is mostly used as a deus ex machina to solve a problem a writer has written themselves in. Like in HP, the time travel bit is only for students to learn more, not to erase attacks by Voldemort, because reasons. In other words, they could have stopped the death if Harrys parents, but did not want to, because reasons.
I get that if used well and as a consistent plot device, it can work. But in HP, its simply a one-oft drama device. Its boring and lazy writing.
Edit, ah, I see
STOP FLEMIN DA STORY, PREPZ
This comment rivals My Immortal on grammar and spelling.
Fucking spellcheck and different languages. Arg
It's like the inverse of Liking Something Before It Was Cool. I never liked this problematic thing even when it was cool.
I WAS that Harry Potter fan. The overly obsessed nerd who was waaaaaay to into it. But now I'm over it because fuck Rowling.
I don’t even plan to pirate the hp tv show. Fuck Jk Rowling so fucking hard. Fuck the piece of shit. Ugh
I was a huge fan back then and nowadays I'm like " This thread is how I learn, that there's a new show announced?" - shows how much I care about that franchise today, lol.
Yup. I was a DIE HARD fan of hairy pothead until rowling showed her true colours. Now I won't even watch HP or read the books, even if they're pirated. She's a bigoted POS and she can rot in hell.
The entire franchise is just so fucking mid, I don't understand why people worship it so much. The invented language in particular is cringe as fuck and sounds like shit a child would come up with.
Yeah see this is my whole main problem.
The writing and story are just... ok?
I could identify the racist tropes and body shaming just interwoven into the whole series before I hit puberty.
Oh then of course slavery is good sometimes actually, here I invented a scenario where this is true.
I got bored of Harry Potter, and just reread Animorphs.
Which certainly has problematic characters and moments and events... but ... they are bad things, that the characters have to actually deal with, its a much more complex and engaging story overall, imo, though of course the serial format means that some books are not so great in comparison to others.
Kinda the same thing with Redwall.
I'm in the exact same boat. I don't want her to even get THOSE numbers. Like how HBO bragged about got piracy numbers
I mean yeah, so long as you're not actually giving money to the evil woman that wrote those books in any way, nobody's stopping you from enjoying your old Harry Potter books and DVDs.
Heck, if you're missing one you can buy it on eBay second hand, just so long as you're not supporting the evil woman with a shiny new purchase, ya know? That woman doesn't deserve a penny.
There's a separate conversation you might want to have with yourself on whether your can separate the author from the work while you're reading it, of course, and whether you're comfortable doing so or not is a personal decision you'll have to make for yourself.
Even better, pirate it and instead donate the money to trans rights groups.
No no, haven't you heard. Pirating stuff is actually supporting the creators!
I'm gonna need someone to explain this lol
Leftist virtue signaling where nothing you do is ever actually good enough, basically
I still don't get it, honestly
In another comment someone said that popularity of shows etc. Is measured by torrent numbers
Not sure how that helps creators, honestly. No money from torrenters are going to the creators, by torrenting. Unless they decide to buy collectors' merch in the end, of course.
While mostly yes, all of that affects others opinions of the books, which can increase her sales and fund her hate.
I'll like HP again when she's dead.
And if her estate doesn’t donate to the same kind of heinous organizations that she does
The really weird thing is how many LGBTQ folks latched onto HP in its early releases as what was recognized to be a kind-of pro-queer YA novel.
You had a young boy who was literally in the closet, disowned and disrespected by family, who is spirited away to a magical school where his differences are valued and cultivated. He's got a bunch of friends who could easily sub in for queer icons. There are gender-bending magical spells, the bad guys are explicitly fascist, most books end with some kind of "The power of friendship and love will triumph!" rejoinder. FFS, Dumbledore is canonically gay.
It is far more a testament to the psychologically corrosive power of plutocracy that JK Rowling went off the rails. I don't think it's unfair for people to like the books and hate the author. Just remember not to pay for anything and you're fine.
When i was in kindergarten, i made my teacher call me harry potter for like a month. I was obsessed with those books. As a 6 year old.
Anyways, im a girl now and jkr and people who support her can go die in a puddle of piss
It's most probable that Rowling is actually trans, but refuses to accept it. Denying it along with degrading empathy due to her financial success just creates a void she feeds with hostility. This leads to guilt, more hostility due to "shame", etc. Her books portray her actual feelings, but she fell off the wagon because she believes it is shameful to accept a different gender. She has even said that she wished she was a boy. Regardless, funding any kinda hate group is fucked. Believe what you want, but don't try and stop people from having their own joy if it's not harmful.
I've heard this speculated extensively. It would certainly be ironic.
But I'm more prone to believe she's one more British Fascist, poisoned by money and a growing circle of reactionary hysterics.
A lot of that stems from British entrenched misogyny. Wanting the privileges of masculinity, as much as the actual biology.
While the cultures are different, I don't get it. Women in the US basically have a "just cause I lack a penis, doesn't mean I am not equal" mentality. And women earned rights in the UK before the US. Just seems like the misogny would be less over there. Then again, racism was on the decline here, and now it's like everyone has a golden ticket to be bigoted assholes, so...
Rights are very different than status.
That's debatable.
No she's just trying to sell the idea that being trans is a tactical choice just like how she put JK instead of Joanne on her book cover so more boys would buy it.
Standard terf belief is that trans men just sometimes wanted to do boy stuff as a kid but didn't because of sexism and are too cowardly and weak to stand up for themselves so they treacherously try to join the enemy. As part of trying to convince herself and other people that's how it works she has to do her own Evangelical "I smoked crack every day before I found Jesus" thing.
I think she's actually talked about how she'd have been trans if she had been born in a more trans-friendly age.
Like you also theorise, maybe that's what making her so mad, other trans people getting to have lives outside the closet when she was too afraid to.
Oh wait you had that in there
My bad read it too fast
Nah, that seems pretty unlikely.
That story she tells about wanting to be a boy is basically tailor-made to drum up sympathy for her while shooting down a carefully-constructed strawman that doesn't actually resemble the real experiences of body dismorphia, but superficially appears as though it could.
Keep in mind, it's also the series where one of the fascist teachers kills the retroactively gay character but had a good reason for doing so and is actually not a baddie at all.
The undercover agent kills a secretly terminally ill teacher to protect a young boy who is being jumped into a fascist gang.
It's bad storytelling (because the stakes have been ratcheted so low) not bad politics.
I am going to admit I enjoyed the series a lot 20 years ago, can't say I've read ger stuff since the series ended and haven't done anything to support her since the whole TERF thing came out and she started showing what sort of person she was. I recently picked up my old books to see if they held up and by god is it filled with bigoted stereotypes, Cho Chang (two last names) for the Chinese girl, Goblins being the obvious stereotype/alehory of Jews from a European who was "open minded" about Jews pre ww2 but still wanted to make sure that they deserved some of the bad shit that happened to them because they're vicious even if unfair wizard laws were passed, the black auror being called Shackelbolt, the wezeleys being very much catholics for being poor with too many kids, the french being snobbish bafoons but classy, the Centaurs being either polytheists or gypsies, the list just goes on and Harry being the hero just gets rid of the head Nazi while leaving the institutions and culture in place, doesn't even think about the slavery aspect except for Dobby, and he and Ron make fun of Hermione for her pushing for their freedom. I guess the reason why people enjoy the series is because the world feels somewhat real and magical because she put her imagination and bigotry into the story and never thought of trying to have the protagonists actually solve a major issue and will let it fester.
I've lost a lot of favorite musicians that turned out to be either creepy abusers or rabid zionists; I think HP fans can read another fucking book.
I dunno, they apparently haven't done it once their entire adult lives, so...
My SIL is like this and it's so goddamned exhausting.
While I agree it’s logical to boycott her, portraying HP fans as trans abusers is a bit much. If buying the HP books is equivalent to punching a chained down trans person in the face then absolutely none of us, including the artist here, haven’t done worse.
I’d bet anything they have bought products on Amazon, which makes them responsible for Bezos. Does that artist have an X account for advertisement? That gas they buy makes them responsible for violence the middle east. Are they one of the remarkable few who ethically source clothes without child labor? Bet not.
I boycott all kinds of stuff, but demonizing people for not joining you is nonsensical in this consumerist hellscape where complete harm avoidance isn’t possible.
Even with your example you're missing a big point though. It's pretty tough to get around without gas and just as difficult to find clothes that don't involve child labour. But this is one single fantasy franchise in a huge sea of other options and people will still happily give their money to the single person that actively harms a specific minority.
Again, people should boycott her, convince people to do it all day. However, this demonization is out of line. I’m just saying if this is your threshold for what makes someone an irredeemable monster, then you should make sure your own house is in order before you start lighting the pyre.
You know what I am tired of? The focus being on whether consuming or not makes you a good person. I don't care if in your heart of hearts you are a good person or not. So often it comes down to people trying to defend their own gods damned image of themselves as "in the right"
What I care about is that the absolute ghouls being propped up by this series stay in the limelight. Their money funds changes to society which have created an uptick in suicides. Did you know trans kids in the UK, the ones who were in gender affirming care that the government changed to be essentially just regular old therapy, has seen a marked increase in suicide? Since the law that JKR paid her blood money to get changed there's been civil suits filed by workplaces driving trans people out. Trans people are marching in the UK and getting their asses handed to them by police for holding vigils for the dead outside of the government buildings of the health care service nominally charged with their care that sees a waiting list that in some parts of the country at current capacity sees an estimate of 200 years wait for a first consultation. Trans people there are increasingly DIYing their own hormonal transitions sometimes having to go through illegal paths like they are dealing in cocaine just for the willpower to stay alive.
And yet the conversation remains on whether it is right to make someone feel bad about their media consumption or at what point you get an ally sticker. So much of trans advocacy ends at "well boycott the witch"
For the love of God if people only cared a single fraction about trans people the way they did about their own warm fuzzies or the flaw in their neighbour's soul.
You want to feel like you actually did a thing? Maybe find a charity funding trans rights activism in the UK and pop the money saved by pirating your damn wizard books in there ?
I don't see the words "irredeemable monster" anywhere other than in this post.
What it does mean is that they can't be bothered to let Rowling's behavior influence their decision making. When a so-called trans ally can's stop waving around their Harry Potter merch, I question their conviction. If they can't even abstain from helping to maintain the relevance and popularity of a property directly benefiting one of the most prominent transphobes on the planet, at what point will they stand up? Should I believe someone who can't stop yapping about this franchise in front of me is suddenly going to shift their priorities if someone harasses me on the street?
I don't expect that they'll join in and actively make it worse, but I'd be a fool to look to them for support. It signals that they care more about convenience than they do putting their foot down about trans people being mistreated.
oh look, an average liberal telling trans people the genocide they're currently facing is not that serious.
Not even close.
Uh, no what they're saying is that buying a particular book is actually no t exactly equivalent to genocide. Supporting somebody with shitty views sure, but these days there's a lot of those
When that money goes directly towards funding that genocide- yes, it is equivalent.
O don't mind anyone enjoying media from problematic figures if they enjoy it. I just don't want those fans to monetarily support those figures.
Sail the high seas if you wanna partake in such content.
To that I would add that if you want to recommend such content to others it should preferably done with the addition of how others could access it through alternative means. Just to reduce the chance the recommendation leads to any extra income.
are we allowed to do that here
um
I can
But I think most people on Lemmy already know
Sorry I'm high
You're doing great, friend. You mean like talk about torrenting? Mostly yes. Looks like your instance says you can talk about piracy, so long as you don't link to any pirated content, or links to piracy sites. I guess you can still talk about streaming or file sharing platforms that show up on the first page when you google.
Even if you download it and J.K.R. doesn't see a penny you're still engaging with media that is anti-trans and that's just as bad. There is no ethical consumption of her work, full stop.
Is there anything anti-trans in Harry Potter?
I genuinely don't know. I've never read or watched it.
She actively funds anti-trans causes
There is nothing in the books itself that is anti trans (AFAIK and remember), it is that people equate her works with her political views which are anti trans. As a most likely trans person myself (still working out the details of it, stay tuned) I have a real struggle at my hands. On the one hand her books were a massive part of my childhood and early teens. I waited in line out side book stores to get the newest one. On the other hand she uses the money she gets from licenses and the IP to fund anti trans organisations. She also uses her fame / reach to spread TERF points of view. I enjoy and love the world she created back then but I cannot in good conscience consume anything that supports her now. Not any merch, series, film or game.
I on my ow may not make a difference but the sum is more than it parts. If enough ppl. start voicing their objection to her and her views, boycott the new stuff because of her, some change might be possible. If not, sacrificing something I loved growing up is an acceptable price to pay to keep me and others safe.
Do not beat yourself up for enjoying things just because the overarching capitalist system exploits your enjoyment to fuel bigotry and oppression. There is no ethical consumption under capitalism. So long as you yourself are not directly committing harm, don't shame yourself for reading a book, watching a show, enjoying a soda, or whatever other little comfort that helps you stay sane in this capitalist dystopia.
Is it fair? No but the system wasn't designed to be fair.
HOW are the Harry Potter books Anti-trans? Where in ANY of the books do they promote Anti Trans attitudes?
How is this difficult to understand? She wrote the books. The books are hers. The books themselves promote anti-trans attitudes, regardless of whether or not they have anti-trans themes. Anyone who still consumes any of her work is transphobic. It really is that simple.
You didn't address the questions at all.
Someone doesn't understand the concept of "separate the art from the artist"
Your overly simplistic take is just naive. It actually isn't "that simple". You are.
You realize your argument is like, "ALL muslims are terrorists!" right?
It might work better if you recommend them an alternative. "Don't do this" is bad instruction. "You can do this instead" is better.
I've heard good things about Discworld, for one.
Recommendations may be nice, but I doubt it can replace the childhood nostalgia for a lot of people.
I have a lot of nostalgia for Final Fantasy 7. Amazingly, when I played Trails in the Sky many years later, I did kind of feel that nostalgia for a well-made JRPG. I guess I’m saying it’s possible.
Yes you can. You don’t speak for all of us. Many of us moved on and expanded our pallet just fine and are happier for it.
It’s actually really good for your brain to keep finding new things for developing it.
Novelty is love. Variety is the spice of life.
(Pallet =/= palate)
You can definitely experience nostalgia for things you've never experienced before.
If it replaces the childhood nostalgia of at least one person, it will have been worth it.
Discworld is great but something else entirely. Closer comparison would be Percy Jackson or a more ya magic school would be the scholomance books
Much better and funnier than anything from that witch.
If you're looking for something to read and haven't read it yet, try Douglas Addams The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. It's (edit: not) public domain.
It's not even close to Harry Potter, more of a sci fi comedy, but you won't regret reading it. When I finally got around to reading it, I couldn't put it down after I started, and this was well into the time where I was mostly playing video games instead of reading anything. Iirc, I read the first two in that first sitting, went to sleep, then read the rest the next day.
Having read all five books of the trilogy as well as Eoin Colfer's And Another Thing, I 100% support this suggestion even though it's not what I'm looking for here.
Just don't pay for it and be done with it.
Enjoy Harry Potter, just don't give money to scumbag author.
Read some genuinely good fiction? What do you like about them? I guarantee theres better books for that.
3D print your own merch
Or, maybe, look at those books with critical eyes for the first time in your life, and realise how shit it is, and how much it is littered with awful terrible takes. And read another book maybe.
how can people enjoy shit made by absolute hags?
like, if you have standards, and you should, that ought to make said products gross, because it really fucking does.
there's so much more to this world than this one shitty, played out franchise, just move on in life people ffs
I dont see a prpblem with it as long as you dont pay them. Some of gaiman's stuff was genuinely good.
The problem is making it your identity. Consuming uncritically. Worshipping. Not reading any other kinds of shit.
enjoy your terfy garbage
Richard Wagner was a bigtime nazi who wrote some of the best classical music ever.
And apparently Gene Roddenberry wasn't an entirely perfect human being either.
Wagner died in 1883. like 50 years before the rise of the Nazis in Germany.
You've got it backwards. Nazis were a big fan of his music.
ride of the Valkyries is shite and if you think it's great, that's prob your inner der fuhrer trying to drive the bus.
Disliking a chefs dish based on their political stance or personal opinion no matter how wrong isnt going to solve anything about it, just a giant waste of energy
I would say it's fine to pirate Harry Potter media.
So if you are really that into it, just pirate it.
I disagree.
Interacting with the new show, even through piracy, leads to more voices talking about it and making Rowling’s cash-cow culturally relevant. It also normalises the shit takes she pushes through her stories at children.
I don’t like Ben Shapiro, and wouldn’t pay a dime for his streaming service. But pirating Chip Chilla to show to my kids still gives him a say in how me and my family view the world.
Why does Rowling get a pass? Because I happened to read her racist, classist tripe when I was a kid?
Better off, pirate it and donate the price of the media to the Trevor Project or something (can someone recommend a British trans charity in the replies, for example?)
Mermaids UK? Though this is more of a mention than a recommendation, since im not too familiar with their work
Still helps to promote engagement. People can do what they want, but if you really want to make a stand on this, then completely ignoring it is the only way.
This and just act mature about it with a critical judgement.
Regardless what Rowling says the wizarding world, which is a mix of common mythology and has folklore huge queer potential. Its hard to find media that portrays something like it this well.
The series will have its flaws, the writer will make sure of that, but she will also be too shortsighted to recognise the extension and personal touched by everyone else involved that may not agree with her viewpoints.
I wouldn't.
Attention is still cause for future contracts, which is how she makes money. Because at that point, publishers and companies just go "this was our money, these are missed sales because of piracy". They're well aware of any pirated media and see it as demand.
I was considering playing hogwarts legacy a while back, I decided if I bought it I would donate double what I paid for the game to mermaids.
Whatever fraction of a share of the cost goes to Rowling and whatever fraction of that she uses to push her hateful agenda probably does less harm than mermaids does good.
Conceptually I view it as similar to putting sin taxes on things which are harmful to society but difficult to prohibit (alcohol, tobacco, unhealthy food etc.)
I wound up not buying it because there are other games to play from better franchises and my HP nostalgia isn't all that strong, but I think this is a reasonable approach.
Way ahead of you. I remember when The Half Blood Prince came out, there were leaked photographs of the whole book online a few days early. There was a massive collaborative transcription of the low quality photos into an ebook. Fun times.
I get there are workarounds like piracy and buying second-hand, but also boycotting a book-series and some merch shouldn't be that hard surely?
Yeah. There's a lot of literature. Don't have to marry this one. When Gaiman was found to be a creep, I gave up some of my favorites. And yet there is still more to fill the gap.
that's the thing. there are millions of other GOOD books. HP is slop. I say that as someone who LOVED HP. But rowling made me fall out of love with it. She's such a bigoted POS that she deserve nothing but condemnation. I was a massive pothead, so if i can give it up, anyone can.
her books were always about her "real beliefs" just hidden behind her writing. family guy joked about her writing-anti-trans years before she went full terf.
You can, you know, read another book
For Harry Potter fans in particular, may I suggest The Guy We Don't Mention in the Same Sentence. You know. Terry Pratchett.
I agree with you that Terry Pratchett is so much better. But it's not very comparable. Harry Potter lives from the comfy feeling of a magical boarding school and the classic "chosen one" thing. It's easy reading and draws a very clear imagery in the minds of the readers. The disc world is a bit more... Abstract I guess?
So I'd rather pirate Harry Potter if it's something that interests you. And definitely also read Terry Pratchett, simply because it is better.
The best way to enjoy something that may benefit a problematic person is to simply acquire it in a way that doesn't benefit them. Perhaps whilst on board a ship with a nice barrel of grog.
There’s a plethora of artists to choose from that aren’t assholes. These folks keep talking about opening mind to other points of view. If that’s their stance then they can open mind to new options.
No, you need to have an open mind to their opinion, they don't need to give you the same benefit
Attacking people for liking Harry Potter is the epitome of pointless performative action. It does nothing to help with the root problem.
The root of the problem being people giving millions of moneys to bigots, which then use those money to hurt people.
There are other books written, by people who don't hurt anyone.
Just wait until you find out where some of your taxes are going then lmao
Seriously. Many people here don't seem to grasp the whole "no ethical consumption under capitalism" thing.
Are you sure? Maybe they are child abusers, or spousal abusers or tax frauds or so many other possible bad things. Can you really be sure that your approved author/actor/athlete/celeb isn't a bad person? Do you really know any of them to be positive? Or is it ok to like them so long as you don't know that they are bad people but it only becomes wrong if they are publicly outed as bad? I don't and won't do anything to financially support JKR now but I'm not going to burn any of my books by her.
I'm not attacking. But I will remind people of the money that the author will continue to get as her business grows and makes movie/tv/game deals. I won't attack someone for buying a Tesla, either, but will remind them that buying said Tesla funds a Nazi's wallet.
I sometimes get ChiFilA food. It's convenient, my family likes the food, and somewhat affordable. I also know what horrible people that own that company believe. I don't go nearly as much now, and attempt to dissuade my family from going there. Now Hobbly Lobby? Strict ban hammer on that shithole. So much fucking monsterous, vile shit from that place.
You shouldnt stay away from hobby lobby. Their LP may range from inept to nonexistent, but if you consider the regular discounts their prices cant be beat.
When they stole artifacts I was irritated, but rich fucks do that kinda shit all the time. Then they starting pushing for control of their female employee's health, then the two things that sent me: pretending to be Christian but forcing employees to work during a pandemic cause "my wife said God said it's ok", then mass firing after the vaccine came out, and then funding hate groups. They are nothing more than WCN Nazis.
Yeah thats why you should shop there. Read what i said again.
My parents moved a few months ago, and that meant I had to come over and decide what to do with some of the stuff I owned that was still at their house. I sorted things into "keep" and "throw away" piles.
One of the things I had to decide on was my Harry Potter books. My parents were surprised I put them in the "throw away" pile. It was hard for a moment, not because of what they were, but because I remember the day my dad came home and surprised me with books 2 and 3. I had read the first book for school, but the first 4 books had already been published by the time I got into it, so my friends were well ahead of me. I was so happy when my dad spontaneously did that. I hadn't asked for the books, but he knew I wanted them and went out of his way to get them just to surprise me. I felt so loved.
As I held those same books in my hands, 25 years since first receiving them, I took in that loved feeling, but it was twinged with disgust for JK Rowling. Although it pained me, I knew I wouldn't be reading them again. In my internal monologue, I told myself, "These books served their purpose long ago. It's okay to let them go and move on."
So into the "throw away" pile they went. The only things worth keeping anymore are the memories and experiences that those books originally opened up to me, and those can't be tossed out even if I wanted to. Putting the books into that pile felt like visiting a wake - the series is dead to me now, and with this final viewing, I could have closure over it and finally say goodbye.
Hate to break it to you, but you can absolutely lose memories. Time is a bitch.
Oh, I know. I used to work in a nursing home. Dementia is horrifying. But in the meantime, the memories are still with me, and that's good enough.
I think there's something to be said for having to throw away things tied to precious memories because those things are tainted by a bitch who couldn't just shut the fuck up and be happy with her success.
But this is exactly the type of thing I mean when I say that some people's advocacy against JKR bleeds over into the lives of innocent people just trying to live.
I would never be able to throw away a gift my father had given me. Nobody should be pressuring anyone else to do the same just because they find something problematic (not for its actual contents, but because it's author is a hate monger).
People forget that there are real and cherished memories attached to this franchise and whether they intend to or not, they do attack them when they make media like this, or post about how terrible a person must be for having engaged with said media.
Just because something is trivial for you to excise from your life doesn't mean it's as easy for the next person.
When people spread further hatred because they feel self righteous about something that has wronged them, they aren't making things better.
I don't even engage with the franchise anymore. Most of what I know about it from the last decade has been from media posts like this bashing it or telling people how evil Rowling is. I wouldn't know there was a tv show, wouldn't have known about the game l, wouldn't have known about the universal park etc if it weren't for posts like this.
Did you throw away all your Disney media? Would you still visit a Disney or universal park? Engage with the studio that made the game or the company producing the show?
There's so much to how media gets made and how many companies are still actively supporting this bigot and instead of attacking those corporations we attack each other for no really good reason except that it makes some people feel superior.
Nobody ever shouts out the organizations that she donates to. Nobody ever mentions where they get their funding. Nobody ever talks about boycotting the companies making the media (not the media itself) until they stop supporting franchises like HP.
Does that make sense? It's never made sense to me.
Why not give them to someone for free such that they do not need to spend money for them?
Still promotes someone else supporting her nonsense.
I mean, when you are going through piles of old sh*t to keep or trash, by, like, the second hour, you just want to throw it all away. Ain't no one got time to find a person who wants each one of their things that they don't want to keep anymore.
These days we have websites for exactly that purpose.
A lot of the major furniture in my apartment came from people getting rid of stuff that I found via free-and-for-sale pages.
Thank you for saying this, that's the point in time we were at. My parents had rented a dumpster, and that final cleaning was the last day before they had to return it, and two days before the new homeowners were set to move in.
Meanwhile, at the same time, I had just moved into a tiny little studio apartment. I have almost no storage/furniture, and no money to buy any. Most of my things are still in boxes because I have nowhere else to keep them. Boxes still fill my car now (months later), to the point that my 4-seater can't hold a single passenger. I can't overstate just how little space I have.
Point is, I had to cut down to only the necessities. Holding onto the book set would've just been more clutter taking up space that I need for more important things. Which reminds me, I have to dig out the boxes that have my summer clothes and do the switcharoo with my winter clothes (which I currently store in a luggage bag. I don't even have a dresser!)
Yes just dump stuff, we have more where that came from. What a terrible way to look at resources. It is so easy today to have people come by and pick things up or even go through stuff on their own. But no, why should we share etc. when you can just dump everything? I was in the unfortunate situation to empty the whole apartment of a friend that passed, we had to do it within one day. No, we did not just dump everything.
I think we should normalize acknowledging reality. JK Rowling is a POS, Neil Gaiman is a POS, many others are POS or problematic for different reasons. A lot of products are owned by problematic companies. Some have better alternatives.
Bashing people for it is just going to make people tune you out though. Just be aware. I'm really not interested in the Harry Potter show. But the movies are a staple. If I see Tom Cruise is in a movie I get a lot less interested in it. I still like Edge of Tomorrow though.
They are not even good, why is everyone crazy about these books?
They are easy to read and were some people's introduction to fantasy/fiction (not everything is as dull as school assignments) and a set of shared experiences growing up.
Even when the books were written I found even the concept pretty stupid. "You need a wand to do magic" 🤷♂️ "We can teleport but you have to use a train to get to school" 🤦♂️ And the story is a ripoff of too many previous stories.
World building was shit. New stuff was being added in later books that, if it existed in early books, would have made the story so different.
They came out at peak millennial, at the intersection of shared cultural experiences and early social media. Before the internet a book wouldn't go global like HP did, and after algorithmic feeds there haven't really been cultural experiences shared so broadly.
I agree. I wish I could understand.
Then I remember that stuff like Twilight makes it into best selling territory and I give up trying to understand.
Same fucking reason why Star Wars, Star Trek, Ghostbusters and many other old good media is still popular today. Nostalgia.
Childhood nostalgia I guess.
I am too old to have any for this series, but still even if I did, I don't understand why you can't drop it. I realise plenty of the things I liked in my childhood was commercialised nonsense, and I have no desire to keep revisiting it.
Because the US (I guess the UK as well) is full of adults who haven't read a single book since HP. It's their only reference point.
So many people in this thread defend J.K. Rowling, or at least the Harry Potter works, under the guise that Rowling's anti-trans positions are just an opinion. She does so much more than just talk. She uses her personal fortune made directly from Harry Potter to fund legal attacks on the rights of transgender people in the UK.
Imagine if Elon Musk showed up one day to fund a civil case against you for playing rec league soccer or to get you fired from your job. This is what the beginning of genocide looks like. It may take years to get to the camps and the ovens, but we will get there. Hell, the camps are already built here in the US, and they will house more than the transgender.
https://www.advocate.com/news/jk-rowling-anti-trans-organization
I read the books, but I was 14 and it was 2000. Haven't consumed any of it since.
Quite the age difference there.
I offer you the dad crown.
Same, and I might add, they're not that good. In my personal opinion, they get worse as you go. The last book was a slog man
Almost 40 eh? I'm right behind you buddy..
I've scouted up ahead and recommend turning back
Turn? Mate, my knees, back and neck are no longer capable supporting that function.
Best way to punish RFK, sorry I mean JKR is for some LGBTQ+ people to shoot videos telling how HP helped them to come out of hiding and reveal their true self to the world. They can go onto to say things like HP has given them the courage to fight for this cause and in some cases, thanks to this courage, they ended up working in institutes that sets policies regarding LGBTQ+ rights.
OK, this is a tough one and what I'm about to say might get me some dislikes. Let me just say something that might soften the blow: Fuck Rowling, her transphobia, and the bigots that defend her wretched views. Even if she decided, in an alternative timeline, to keep her loudmouth shut, she would still be the scum of the earth for her views on trans people. I repeat, Fuck Rowling.
Now, with that out the way, let's address the crux of the issue. I know that many of you in the LGBTQ+ community grew up with the franchise and enjoyed it long before Rowling exposed her true colors. If you're LGBTQ+ and you decide to reconcile, in some way, with the franchise without directly supporting Rowling, you're well within your rights to do so. The nostalgia you feel for something that brought you joy in your youth is yours to keep. No one, not even the creator themselves, can take that from you. As for the products themselves? You can: buy the books secondhand, pirate the movies, pirate the EPUBs if you have an e reader and buy fan-made merch from LGBTQ+-friendly sellers.
If decided to not reconcile with the franchise, you're also well within your rights to do so. Rowling has to made aware of the damage her views have on people. Demonstrate the hypocrisy of writing about a group of outsiders finding a place of acceptance and discovering their true selves and espousing bigoted rhetoric towards a discriminated group wanting acceptance for their true selves. There's plenty of other fictional universes you can draw your attention towards (more on that in a moment) that are far less problematic and worthier of your time.
If you're an ally (like myself), it's best that we don't engage with the franchise all together out of support. For me, this isn't a problem since I didn't engage with the franchise all that much in my youth (I was more of a LOTR fan). If you do decide to reconcile, much of what I have already said still applies.
In short, the question of reconciliation is a personal matter. So long as Rowling isn't benefiting, you should be happy with your decision and the stand you take. As for alternatives? Well...
The already mentioned Lord of The Rings
Dune series
Discworld
Elric of Melniboné
Wheel of Time
I'll shit on JK as much as anyone, but I gotta say, I know a lot of trans people who own Hogwarts Legacy on steam... Most aren't huge HP fans or even read the books.
Who would own Howarts Legacy on Steam when Epic gave it away free for a whole week..
Because no one is going to play it on Epic, even if its free
Ive played several games on Epic.
I don't get this attitude for single-player games. If its free.. Why the heck not.
Oh right you need people to see your game achievements on Steam?
That's literally it?
Did people not get over the Achievement Hunter phase a decade ago and just start enjoying games?
I can’t speak for others, but my bar for installing another app on my PC is pretty high. It’s probably worth it for the number of free games, but I wouldn’t have done it just for the HP game.
This is more of a general answer and not specifically about Hogwarts Legacy:
I mean, if I want to play a game now I don’t wait for years for the possibility that it becomes free for a week (and the chance that I don’t miss the giveaway). And if I have a steam deck, I maybe still want to own it on steam.
I get that.
Personally if it's single player and I don't want to support the authors urgently, I can wait.
So for HP I was happy to never buy it, then I saw Epic give it away and i thought.. Oh. Well, I guess that works.
Idiots.
Even if a book I read as a teenager was the best book of all time and the author was the greatest person to ever live who was literally Jesus I would still read other books because being a literate adult requires one to read a wide variety of new material over time lol
You never read a book more than once?
On rare occasions, no YA books unless I'm reading them to a kid. I'm not going to reread the The Chronicles of Narnia either. I haven't read Harry Potter because it came out when I was in college but I don't believe from what I know that there is enough substance to Harry Potter to make me want reread them if I had.
I read about a book every week and am in multiple book clubs and have a huge list of books to read so going back and reading fluff from when I was a kid is not going to make the cut because I am an adult. The point I made is about actual literacy though, if you are just rereading the same books and not engaging with the wide variety of works and authors through time you aren't really exercising your literacy muscles. I loved the Hitchhikers Guide series too, but I already read it and probably won't read it again. There are more books to read than I have life to live.
I feel like this is aimed at the new tv series. It's more about not watching the new content and not rereading.
I've seen people demonizing watching then discussing it with friends, since it's spreading it, even if you don't buy it. I get it since jk is basically trans enemy number 1, but it does feel a bit intense. That being said, If I watch it, I'm pirating it and not really discussing it with anyone since I have no friend, so I don't have to worry about it.
Oh yeah that tracks I guess, I don't really watch tv series and saw they were holding a book in the meme but there is a poster about the series.
I'll confess to keeping one item of HP merch. It's a cup that we use for scooping car litter.
The Sorting Hat really sells it.
Kudos Erin🥂
A better alternative.
I tried to watch Owl House but it is too boring for me :(
it gets better.
It's also meant for kids.
I have a better Teens show in my banner.
We even made a recent 🧵 about this.
Man, I have literally heard people say you should burn the books and movies you probably already owned long before Rowling was known to be a TERF. The art isn't the problem. As long as you're not continuing to financially support the bitch herself, Harry Potter himself ain't gonna harm trans people.
Yeah, it's not like you have anything like
what's with the shacklebolt one? is it like shackles as a nod to slavery or what?
Yeah, that's my only explanation for that kind of a name for a black person. Whether or not it was intentional, I have to assume she's massively racist, as are all of her editors/publisher. Too many people has the opportunity to say 'what the fuck, lady', and it still went to print.
What's wrong with Cho Chang?
That was likely overzealous religious folk. Because it had magic and witches it was deemed by them to be demonic. I'm quite sure they would be surprised to learn the author of the books they hated was an ally for one of their other beliefs.
Pirate the shit of any JK Rowling related thing...
You want comfort British wizard comfort characters: read the Rivers of London series.
My kids and I read Harry Potter a lot. We love it and it's been a good bonding experience.
We limit our consumption of Harry Potter though. We read the books, watch the old movies and occasionally (once a year) maybe, purchase a lego set.
I have explained to my kids that I would rather not support JK Rowling due to her stance on trans people and for the most part they are cool with things.
I am certainly still not helping but I believe my kids understand pretty well
Wow, great example to set for your kids. Instead of just finding a different (probably better) series to bond over, you show them that it's not worth actually adhering to your stated values. Great lesson.
I like that you don't go ballistic about it, that you stay moderate while changing your ways in a reasonable way. Fuck fanatic cancel culture.
But HP isn’t even good
The first movie was ok at best
I remember when the first book was published and everyone was losing their minds. One of my 9th grade classes was English or literature or something, it was a long time ago I don’t remember, and our teacher would read it to us and I remember thinking it was just ok and if we had to sit here and listen to her read she should pick something more interesting/challenging/better written but most people in class were obsessed
The first movie was like the worst one.
Strong disagree.
Yep, second one is the worst by miles. There's lots of cool bits in it, but the overall narrative is a mess. The basilisk is also seriously dodgy-looking in several shots.
The first one is significantly more kiddy than the others, but it's really well-executed.
First one gets a lot of praise and passes because it's the introduction to the world. Everyone knows the origin story is the best part so it's fine if it's rough around the edges. Also if you've only seen one Harry Potter movie, it's going to be that one for obvious reasons.
I personally feel that it's perfectly fine to boycott problematic figures. Speech has real effects and should be treated like it.
But once you accept the equivalence of speech/reading and violence you can start choosing to regulate speech/reading as violence, or free up violence as speech. I don't think either is a great idea. Do you think that any of you have never said something hurtful to others? Should you be jailed for it?
I await all the civil and non-hurtful replies from peaceful and sympathetic people I am likely to garner for this stance.
You are a
greatperson Iagreewith you and hope youliveThanks, stranger. I hope you live and are happy even if we someday come to disagree on some things. You are more important to me than almost any disagreement.
<3
I know its a hyperbolic example (though entirely possible in the context you describe)
What would be your thoughts on speech that had the effectual equivalent of murder?
There's no traps here im just interested in the thought process behind the context you provided.
Side note: if verbal violence is possible then it would probably track that there are degrees of violence, much like the physical equivalent.
If that's true the argument that you shouldn't regulate subjectively heavy violence because "who here hasn't physically hurt someone?" Isn't a reasonable as it sounds at first glance.
For the record, Rowling is a shitbag, the potter books are mediocre and the actors were the best thing about the movies.
None of that bias is in the foundation of my questions though.
Speech equivalent to murder? Well calls to violence, or criminal conspiracy are crimes. But that's kind of a cop-out because they lead to eventual killing via non-speech means.
Actual murder via speech would be... stuff like shouting fire in a crowded movie theater. (This is also already a crime.)
I used effectual equivalent for a reason.
I did say it was somewhat hyperbolous but there are real life examples that are possible.
Something like extended bullying directly leading to suicide, lies with the intention of causing harm or death.
Calls to violence that lead to deaths that otherwise wouldn't likely happen is a good example of one that can be technically correct but difficult to prove.
Intentionally telling someone a door leads to safety when it actually leads to a spike pit is effectually the same as stabbing them yourself.
Are those examples good enough for an answer?
Im looking for how the idea holds up at the logical extreme so I can understand the bounds of the theoretical context.
There doesn't have to be a good answer either, some ideas only work in a limited boundary and break down at the extremes.
I know this is a bit of an extreme example. Leaving an abusive spouse leads to suicides. You can't blanket assign responsibility in all cases. It needs to be reasonable.
In cases of targeted harassment, sure. I think cases like that have gone to trial.
But if seeing someone walk into a book signing by a woman with regressive views on trans related stuff tips someone over the edge to suicide I don't feel that's reasonably assignable blame. Seeing J.K.Rowling succeed is such a minor thing compared to the child raping cannibal cults we have running things. It just does not even register.
Calls to violence are outright crimes where I live, whether any violence occurs or not. I think you might get a lighter sentence if nothing happens, not sure. Just like you don't get off with no charges if you shoot at someone and miss.
Perfection is the enemy of good.
Most consumerism is problematic and you can blame most people for something, just take your time and you will find something: Are you drinking milk? Are you eating meat? Do you drink beer or smoke cigarettes? Do you use Social Networks like Instagram, Facebook or TikTok? Do you buy stuff on Amazon? Do you use ChatGPT? Do you drive a car even though you could travel by foot, train, bus or bike? Do you watch soccer? Do you watch porn? Congratulations, you are probably supporting something shitty.
That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try to change things. But offending people for doing some of these things never helped. It often just achieves the opposite. Try to encourage others, show them alternatives. Etc.
Transphobia isn't good.
What's with people who are like "Let's compromise with evil and have a little evil, then." I've been dropping things I enjoyed when I find out the person is either a sex pest or bigoted. I liked Disturbed for example, then found out their front man is a zioniest.
Oh, that's simple. They know it's never just a little evil.
Finding alternatives isn’t hard tho. There’s like a plethora of magic school books from 2012 onwards. alerting people isnt the problematic thing while we are literally in a wold of countless options and claiming you can’t find any is just you being difficult and lazy.
Some people actually need an angry remark to know they are being an asshole, so there's no need to say all negative activism is bad. Sometimes, it indeed does the opposite of helping, but the same can be argued for positivity. You'll get laughed at sharing vegan recipes if the person challenging you doesn't think animal rights even matter. But them dismissing you isn't necessarily your fault for doing activism "the wrong way".
Even if you do none of those it just keeps going. Coffee? Using too much plastic? Drinking 90% of soda brands?
I just like to think of it like "these things are bad, what good can I do rather than trying to cut out every bad thing?" If every HP fan supported the author by buying it, but then volunteered in a soup kitchen one time, they've done far more good than bad.
It's rarely so cut and dry how the money you spend will be used to hurt people. And it's also rare for such visible harm to be tied to something so unnecessary. You can move on from this 20 year old children's book, I'm sure it'll be okay.
B I L L I O N A I R E and growing in wealth again
Good and evil aren't interchangeable, fungible quantities. You can't punch 20 babies in the face and then feed 100 starving orphans and expect people to forget about one due to the other. The babies stay punched and the orphans stay fed.
With respect to HP in particular, supporting someone who actively and successfully campaigns against trans right hurts trans people. (And tells us that y'all care more about a children's story than you do living, breathing human beings). Volunteering at a soup kitchen after donating to the exterminate trans people fund doesn't undo the donation. It does feed some hungry people, but again doing "good" doesn't erase having done "evil"; both acts still occured.
What people are saying here is literally "please don't donate to the trans extermination project."
Finally, there being no ethical consumption under capitalism is an indictment of consumption, not an absolution for any/all consumption. Just because all consumption falls short of perfect ethics doesn't mean it's all equally unethical. This should be obvious.
That's not wrong but I'm not expecting anyone to forget about the negatives. If you punch 0 babies but you are so worried about causing harm that you're miserable all the time and doing less good as a result, the world is on the whole worse off. It's not a math equation but I would rather someone eats meat if that means they're working to change the industry rather than someone who doesn't eat meat and does nothing. Someone actively working against transphobia and contacting whoever their officials are and canvassing does far more than their $20 does.
I'm just saying there's no possible way to exist without doing harm, anything you can cut out you should, but if it's to the point where it's stopping you from doing good in the world, that might be the line you should stop at.
I've historically been an advocate for separating the art from the artist.
For example, I know that Kovarex is a piece of shit but I still enjoy factorio. I actively avoid learning about the musicians I listen to. I do not want to know about the personal lives of the authors of the books I like.
But this bitch has taken it too far. There's only so much I can ignore. I will never spend another cent on anything related to her works, nor will I recommend them to anyone.
Potheads are tiring.
I don't know, but as I grew older and the world became more harsh, out of cynicism I stopped investing in so much pop culture and especially personalities who have or could possibly make an about-face.
I have never even had an inner monologue about wanting to support of continue consume the work or someone who made something I like after they've got outed for bad shit. It's just and instant "damn, sucks to loose that thing but that's all there is too it."
I seriously don't understand people who do that and the whole "separate the art from the artist" shit.
We have more than enough of literally everything, you aren't giving up something that nothing else can replace. There's more stuff to like and discover from nice people than anyone can fit in their lifetime.
This is probably a minority take, but I feel like it might be important to watch this show if you want to have conversations with people in your life about JKR. If you don't want to have conversations, absolutely ignore it.
Obviously, don't spend money on it supporting her, but the overwhelming likelihood is that the show will be at least passably good. For better or worse, it's a beloved IP and HBO has a solid history.
The conversations about the show will happen, and if I want to steer that conversation in my life, I need to be able to offer and interject something other than "Hey, did you know JKR is the richest woman in Britain and a massive piece of shit?"
Know thy enemy.
My pet peeve with Harry Potter is the Confederate ideology with slaves and house elves. If I want to have that conversation (I do), I'm going to need some familiarity to offer critique and highlight how they're treating it and if they're treating it differently.
if you're looking for something else to recommend people, i'd point you to Verity Vox and the Curse of Foxfire
When I see this shit I want to read HP. Not because I like it, I hated the books, just out of spite.
I was never into the Harry Potter IP. Can someone please summarize who was executed and who don't allow who to watch some tv show?? I'm really out of the loop.
The author spends almost every bit of income she gets on funding anti-transgender organisations and literal fascists (such as Posie Parker), whose lobbying efforts have turned every major British party against transgender healthcare, resulting in transgender healthcare becoming practically inaccessible through legal means with waiting lists lasting decades.
In terms of its material impact, buying HP merch is equivalent to buying a swastika flag from a neonazi store. You can be assured that every cent of profit will go to funding fascism. The only difference is the aesthetic of having HP merch versus having nazi merch.
Afaik: The writer is very outspoken against trans people. And not in a “boomer still catching up” way but very intentionally so.
Here’s some material on it: https://www.glamour.com/story/a-complete-breakdown-of-the-jk-rowling-transgender-comments-controversy
Don't forget the part where Rowling and Epstein were so close that people looking to get in touch with Rowling would contact Epstein to set up the meeting.
I wonder how many boys and girls read HP on the island...
Thanks, now i have some clue! But have you considered a magazine she insulted may not be the most reliable source to cite? It is basically a hit piece with parts where internet randos are bashing her.
Oh absolutely, given the addendums added by other posters my link is rubbish.
Would you believe I’ve already heard about her Epstein connections but then forgot about it? The news cycle of the past few years is such a storm …
Your outrage is meaningless. You're screaming into a void that either already agrees with you or doesn't give a shit.
I don't give a shit. Your argument is hollow and rings of hurt feeling and betrayal. Of the hundreds of upvotes most consume corprate media that funds worse people.
This isn't a noble grand stand, you're just butthurt and picked a popular target to hate. Manufactured transphobe Nickleback.
What is this, another reddit?
Remind me why I'm supposed to be outraged again?
Edit: conclusion: opinion A =/= opinion B, therefore: she bad.
It's pretty easy to find, but JK Rowling is a TERF. She actively contributes money to anti-Trans efforts and is unapologetic about any of it.
https://ferauoft.medium.com/j-k-rowling-and-the-slippery-slope-of-terf-bigotry-67f8be6aa656
Here's an article from a ways back.
She's an active and very outspoken billionaire anti trans rights lobbiest that also donates a ton of money to other anti trans causes. Her works is the fighting grounds on whether you support her and align with her hate and ignorance, or condemn the hate and work against her getting any more contracts in the future and thus any more money. She's an absolute wretched human being.
Don't buy stuff that she gets money from. Don't watch stuff that she gets money from.
Don't participate in anything that gives her any more power.
The difference between her and other artists is in power. She has WAY more power and is actively using it and being successful. Trans people already have it super shitty, and it gets shittier everyday because of people like her and Musk.
Stop watching HP. Stop reading HP. Let it go. You don't need to even pirate it. Just move on. There's plenty of way better stuff out there. You'll be okay.
From what i read in comments jk funds antitrans politics. Im assuming HBO is paying her for the ip. Also piracy counts as a win for jk.
I think its hilarious how after decades of hearing the opposite, people are now trying to convince us that no, piracy is actually supporting!
Shitting on people for enjoying something isn't good praxis, folks. Be mad at the system, not the victims of it.
You can steal all media Harry Potter, not finance insane bigotry and save money, too!
"No ethical consumption under capitalism" is true, but there's degrees to that truth and you can still make choices.
Pirating is still consumption. I never made an argument against it. And there are plenty of perspectives (none that I personally agree with) that will argue that pirating media is unethical. Also, not everyone can pirate things, not everyone is that tech savvy to not get caught, and denying themselves simple comforts does nothing to stop the system from being what it is. Also, not everything can be pirated in the case of physical objects for people who want to indulge in a fandom.
No matter what you purchase under capitalism, you are supporting bigotry and oppression to some degree. There is no escaping it. So instead of arguing about the arbitrary line at which the degree of separation is far enough removed before you can enjoy something without guilt, maybe start talking about actually dismantling the system that allows them to oppress others to begin with?
Theres also a massive distinction between consuming something necessary/important, vs consuming something 100% optional.
Harry Potter isnt food, shelter, or any other kind of critical necessity.
Theres literally countless better alternatives to Harry Potter media you can choose to consume from that doesnt directly put money straight into the pocket of someone actively funding direct harm
This isn't multiple layers of washing here, that money basically goes straight towards actively harming minority groups.
Its not even a good fucking book, and I used to be a fan of it as a kid, but I went back and read my old books and... it just fuckin sucks dawg, its not good lol.
Go pick like, any other fandom at least.
There being no ethical consumption under capitalism doesn't absolve you from trying.
Idk your situation but if you support harry potter after all the heinous shit jk has said she has and will do we are not and never will be friends, you are voting with your dollars to hurt people.
I havent paid a single cent to HP franchise in ages. But I still find books cool. Should I disregard quality/fun aspect of something even if creator of that thing is a POS and I havent gave them any money in a very long time?
You can't easily change what you enjoy, I would take what you like from it and explore other similar properties. If hp is something that has special meaning to you i get it, I would just hope you don't support the creator.
Ya, tons of people did with Neil Gaiman.
You can like and enjoy the Harry Potter fictional setting without supporting JK and her TERF bullshit. They are two separate things.
"Voting with your dollar" is a shortsighted reaction. You fail to understand the meaning behind "no ethical consumption under capitalism". It doesn't matter where you spend your dollars, it is inevitably supporting bigotry and oppression because of the simple fact that every sale is being profited off of by the owning-class and the e.pirialost system.
Or did you forget that our taxes are currently funding Israel's genocide?
Again, be mad at the system, not the victims of it.
To be clear i hate the system I'm stuck in, and had i the power to stop the genocide i would, in the meantime I'm telling you she has stated unequivocally that all the money she makes off the harry potter series will be put into her organization that is on a crusade to eliminate trans people. If you give her money by buying merch, watching her show, drawing fanart even, you are giving her attention and that can lead to others saying oh it's okay to like this thing and that gets her more power money and influence. There is no ethical consumption but this is a hard line I will not intentionally consume something that has a direct line to hurting people, saying it's impossible to do good is a fucking weak excuse to not try.
Again, you're missing the point. Just completely and blatantly missing the point.
No one is handing money directly to JK. She is receiving money through a convoluted system of private ownership that enables her to demand royalty payments for the usage of the Harry Potter universe. She is making money off the back of other people just wanting to make their own art and works of this fictional universe.
Through your logic, there is literally not a single thing you can purchase that cannot be directly traced through our system of economics to funding or supporting something atrocious. That is the entire meaning behind "no ethical consumption under capitalism". You literally cannot escape it unless you abstain entirely from utilizing the capitalist system.
Yet I'm sure you still purchase things. Because you choose for yourself which things to justify and which things not to based on your own arbitrary standards you set for yourself.
Let other people do the same for themselves and quit shaming them because their arbitrary line doesn't fall where yours does.
Be mad at the system that enables bigots to consolidate power and profit off of other people and the things they enjoy.
So instead of telling people they shouldn't directly give money to bigots i should just be angry at capitalism in general because it enables bigots.
No.
There is a new show because people asked for it, it's gonna make her money because there will be new merch, subscription money, and renewed interest in the books from new people exposed to the show.
It isn't a magic money machine it's the market and people saying let people enjoy things are enabling others to think that this new batch of terf powered hog wash is acceptable and it will make the lives of an already marginalized group harder.
Can lead a horse to water but can't make it drink.
Continue to be mad at victims of the system. That'll surely show 'em.
You're telling me to be mad at the system I'm stuck in rather than ask people to not financially support hate speech.
If circlejerking in hufflepuff, magical creature slavery and using magic to disappear your poop is that important to you I can't help.
You are so convinced you are correct that it genuinely makes me wonder why you posted an opinion.
Whataboutism
Thanks for being the voice of reason. Wish more people could see things this way because I really hate when people start whining about my blood diamonds collection. I just like shinny shit, let me enjoy it ffs.
Wow. Nailed it.
How utterly disingenuous to compare a fucking childrens book series to blood diamonds.
I know :)
Although, both are unnessential and both enrich awful ppl so...
Also, according to the logic on the meme you shared, its wrong to critizise ppl who buy diamonds because we should let them enjoy them.
Also also, critizising someone for economically supporting awfull ppl by buying their shit is not stopping them from enjoying said shit. Nobody is taking away their stuff, they can ignore us. However asking ppl to stay silent in the name of someones enjoyment is an attempt to make us give away our freedom to express our opinion.
Also, also also, What if I like critizising them? Let me enjoy it goddamn it!
Apples to oranges buddy but you clearly aren't here in good faith, so, get fucked. I'll not entertain you.
Yeah, let JK Rowling do the entertaining, it was kind of her job.
https://www.thecut.com/2025/06/heres-what-j-k-rowling-has-really-said-about-trans-people.html
We can all laugh at the pure fiction she invents, and quietly ignore how the money we give her affects the world around us.
No u
https://slrpnk.net/comment/21718703
I'm a little confused why you suddenly want to start drawing lines about what's ethical.