Amazon BUSTED for Widespread Scheme to Inflate Prices Across the Economy— Amazon, its vendors, and competing retailers are price fixing, hiking up prices for consumer products, making Amazon richer
California Attorney General Rob Bonta last night filed a request for a preliminary injunction in California’s existing case against Amazon for price fixing. Attorney General Bonta’s 2022 lawsuit alleged that the company stifled competition and caused increased prices across California through its anticompetitive policies in order to avoid competing on price with other retailers. New evidence paints a clearer and more shocking picture. The motion for a preliminary injunction comes after a robust discovery process where California uncovered evidence of countless interactions in which Amazon, vendors, and Amazon’s competitors agree to increase and fix the prices of products on other retail websites to bolster Amazon’s profits. Time and again, across years and product categories, Amazon has reached out to its vendors and instructed them to increase retail prices on competitors’ websites, threatening dire consequences if vendors do not comply. Vendors, bullied by Amazon’s overwhelming bargaining leverage and fearing punishment, comply — agreeing to raise prices on competitors’ websites (often with the awareness and cooperation of the competing retailer), or to remove products from competing websites altogether. Amazon’s goal is to insulate itself from price competition by preventing lower retail prices in the market at the expense of American consumers who are already struggling with a crisis of affordability.
https://oag.ca.gov/news/press-releases/attorney-general-bonta-exposes-amazon-price-fixing-scheme-driving-costsOpen linkView original on lemmus.org
There was a time when Amazon was not full of scummy rip-off products, when it was not playing games with prices, when it was not a cloud-computing powerhouse, and you know what happened?
That's right, they crushed their adversaries (retail shopping) and earned billions in profits. They won.
But somehow that's not enough winning, there isn't enough winning until all the value has been vacuumed up from the world.
Bezos explicitly undercut the competition for years to drive all of the competition out of business. Amazon took as much time from 1997-2016 to make as much profit as they did in 2017, which is also (not) coincidentally when they hit peak market saturation and were able to start raising their prices.
So what you're talking about was real, but it wasn't like, "back when Amazon was good", they were just preparing for what they are now. Having a huge monopoly on just about everything has always been their win condition, and they're no where near done winning.
Yeah. It's the same thing Uber did with pushing cab services out of business.
Not only that, but AWS is the real money maker for them. Not that retail and gaming and prime and whatever don't also make boat loads of cash, but it doesn't even graze AWS. The scale of these data centers is unreal and most of the internet runs on AWS.
I'm an industrial electrician with background on what they're ordering and installing in terms of control panels and if you saw the weekly shipments it'd make you sick. And we're only one supplier, they have others.
I think it’s worse because Bezos (ex-wallstreet) had his buddies at Bain Capital short-and-distort competing companies into bankruptcy, which has the added bonus of clearing the tax burden from the gains on those shorts.
And that is why I no longer buy anything from them. I'm just embarrassed it took me as long as it did to realize what they were really doing.
The frustrating thing is we can't boycott AWS since so many of the sites we use run on it. But yes, we absolutely shouldn't buy things through Amazon or any of the other web stores Amazon owns.
I try to use eBay as an alternative, though i find every 3-4 orders i place there, i get one in an Amazon box that by all rights appears to have been shipped by Amazon. I swear people are drop-shipping stuff from Amazon to their eBay buyers.
They are. If it has free returns and thousands of feedback it’s probably a drop shipper. Return it and use the eBay label it ends up costing them money.
Go figure the margins are that thin.
They are doing exactly that for a sometimes hefty markup. I got something like that with a gift receipt, so ultra lazy, looked up the item and it was $11 cheaper. Like that totally defeats the purpose of going elsewhere.
I reported the seller then returned it.
I have often wondered whether targeted internet boycott days would shake up AWS, but I don't know enough about their billing structure to run the numbers to see how much that would dig into AWS profits + how much of their income is flat subscription fees vs. billing on number of calls and haven't had a chance to dig into it yet.
You would basically have to convince a few hundred million people to not use the internet for months at a time with out a single percentage of them breaking the boycott to actually even start to hit aws.
Countless things have to start failing before aws even starts to feel it since it's not a consumer product. You basically have the drive all the companies using it to near bankruptcy so they can't afford to pay for aws anymore.
Frustrating, but I appreciate your answer; thank you.
The government, use the government. It’s our last chance to use the government to regulate corporations before they become the government
I am a big believer in regulation, and some governments right now are in a position where they can be pressured to take anti-monopoly action against Amazon, which I want very much to see. Being in the U.S. as I am right now, though... There are some state governments I would like to see act (and shout-out to California for doing so here), but I am also brainstorming other nonviolent disruptive action which could be taken, because the federal government right now is actual fascists and Amazon is in league with them.
I was hoping last years shenanigans would have pushed Europe away from our tech companies. I don’t see much hope unless we can elect a new Congress that is willing to do Monopoly busting across the board.
Use vercel instead
/s
Yep. Canceled my shit, deleted all the apps, I’ll buy from someone else. Life was just fine before Amazon and will continue to be fine without them.
AKA the Walmart method.
Walmart didn't even touch amazon on this. There were articles for years about how mind boggling (and the articles were praising, not even critical of) it was that amazon's investors were content to let bezos run amazon on a net zero or even negative profit model. I don't think I've ever heard of walmart not pulling a profit.
You can't really compare online book retailer Amazon to global online marketplace Amazon. Your underlying point is still mostly correct, but I would exclude the years that they were primarily focused on books. From my lived memory they didn't really become the online retail juggernaut until a few years after the launch of Prime. Free shipping turned them into what it is today. So maybe the best comparison would be from like 2006-2016? Or maybe I'm wrong and the distinction isn't necessary. Idk. I'm just trying to foster conversation
That's what's crazy to me, they survived the dot com crash and were so diversified that I have no idea how they stayed afloat. I would think that all of the combined expenses across all of their ventures without a true cash cow would sink them. Instead they survived and became the trash heap of consumer rights violations that they are.
The reason Amazon survived is because they WEREN'T running a dozen different ventures. They were an online bookstore and people kept buying books. Amazon benefited from the crash because that was when they started buying up servers to build AWS. Prime was just free 2 day shipping on books when it launched.
Ehhh not really. They operated at massive losses for a decade or more to eliminate the competition while growing their customer base. This is simply stage 1 of enshittification. You can only do this if you're unbelievably filthy fucking rich. Then at some point they needed to cash out on all the good will and reputation they developed and that brings us to the shithole economy of today where people are simply too lazy to shop anywhere else.
The other commenters here are right about Amazon's initial methods, but I'm also going to highly recommend Cory Doctorow's Enshittification for a detailed explanation of how this happens (including a breakdown on Amazon specifically) and what to do about it.
To quote a favorite singer of mine,
You could fill a man with gold, and still have room for greed.
It's easy to crush the competition when you purposely take a loss as an investment in future market share.
They're BUSTED when someone goes to prison.
For now they're just SLAMMED
Just wait until they get BLASTED in a strongly worded email.
Well, it's California's attorney general, so better than even chance for actual punishment.
"Europeans need to be harder on Amazon" Wags greased finger
Bezos was a hedge fund manager. This should surprise nobody.
Bezos was a Senior VP by the age of 30, working for D.E. Shaw, and was a rumored heir for taking over the business after he retires. Bezos would have made billions and managed a major hedge fund. Set for life.
But that was not enough for him, he wanted to hoard hundreds of billions of wealth instead, so here we are. How perfectly healthy and in no way a mental illness.
I think it was pretty obviously sarcasm
It was not. Poe's Law.
They're a complete stranger, and there are actual people who unironically say stuff like that, even on the Fediverse.
It's pretty obviously a troll account.
Poe's law strikes again
When you're not sure check their overview. That one was obviously sarcasm.
Yourself though, you're angry and reactionary so it tracks.
Their post history reveals them to be kind of a jerk. If it was an attempt at sarcasm it was a poor one.
oh I just cant wait for the highest profile minor slap on the wrist of the century!
Yeah don’t worry. They’ll get a small fine and will appeal and drag it out for years
I could see them threatening something absurd like no longer shipping to California.
Dont worry guys well give one of the richest men in the world a 100k fine!
If America was a serious country they would break up Amazon for this AND arrest Bezos and send him to a random Supermax for corporate blackmail, mass fraud, and unfair competition. But I fear they never were.
America was bought by the corpos a long time ago.
One could argue it's always been about the wealthy.
it has always been about cheap labor that's for sure, the united stated was built by slaves, that's why they love dubai so much
The Guantanamo Bay detention camp is a stain on America and a threat to all of us now.
I'm being hyperbolic, but I do think every CEO of every company in America worth hundreds of billions should be arrested, have their companies broken up, and said CEOs sent to Supermax prisons for mass fraud.
A nitpick, but America won't have Gitmo in that scenario tho. Displacing american people to random countries now is deeply rooted in the premise it's okay to have a torture camp franchized over to places out of everyone's sight. It wasn't okay before and it's not now, and serious country with some sense and a accountability would not employ such tactic.
If you did want to nitpick Bezos hasn't run Amazon since 2021, so we'd have to check when they were being accused of doing so.
5 years on and most of us think Bezos everytime we hear Amazon still
I mean, how can we be so sure Bezos doesn't still have influence over Amazon? He sure owns a lot of stocks in it for obvious reasons. He's bought the Washington Post to spread propaganda. He's set up Blue Origin to get government contracts. I've no reason to believe that he's not apart of the Amazon problem and their influence over American Markets.
Something about one big club.
He certainly has an influence - he's still the chairman of the board. He gets to decide who gets fired and when. In some ways, he found a way to have more influence, while being less hands-on.
Holy shit guys! S-so, if you have a monopoly, it's like, you can do whatever the fuck you want? So it's like in THE FUCKING GAME OF MONOPOLY? Jee, we are learning something new every day
In the game, you have to improve your properties to charge more rent. In reality, the monopoly can reduce quality and raise price at the same time.
You dont really improve it, just added more units. Its about volume, not quality.
Which is also a pretty good tactic in Monopoly: try to buy as many houses as possible, but do not upgrade to hotels - exhaust the housing market- that way the other players cannot upgrade either
Wait, is Jee how the kids spell it these days?
Considering the origin is "Jesus", "Jee" is technically closer spelling than "Gee". Not that I have a dog in this race.
Thanks bro, gee is what I was going for, kisses from Eastern Europe, or, as we call it, Gesus land
Well, your English is much better than my Eastern European. :) No clue you weren't a native English speaker, so there's that <3
The intermediate step is “Jeez.”
The post-step is "Geezie willikers!" :)
Was going to add “Gee Whiz” which comes before that one? Like it got shorter, then it got longer again?
It’s like nicknames. First it’s Joseph, then Joe, then Napoleon Jonaparte.
Oh, I thought that was the... just... regulat step. hehe.
I guess for some sort of vaguely-serious discussion^[which I find interesting but most others don't lol], without doing any research, I think Jesus / Jesus Christ has stably evolved to Gee, with some variants like Gee Whiz being pretty common. I think Gee Willikers was more common around the TV Batman era and so now it's less said straight and more said ironically. heh. I can't think of any other common "Gee [something]"… maybe "Geezie Kreezie", but I've only heard that from Suzy^[previously Eddie] Izzard, so not sure if that's common or not. lol
It definitely got short; I wonder if we'd count a second word as it getting longer, or a second word replacing "Christ". These are the types of inconsequential discussions I love. :)
In the game, even if you've built yourself up, an unlucky roll can still lose you the game. As opposed to real life, where the government decides you're too big to fail.
That's why you've got to get chummy with the banker and promise them a cut, and also that you'll give them some of your cookies after the game.
Can openers is what did it for me.
In 2015 I needed a new manual can opener. The local big-box stores had two basic styles. A cheap, all metal one that was just stamped from a single sheet, and a more expensive one with better handles.
The more expensive one had previously rusted and began to look nasty within a few years.
Amazon had a bunch of different styles at less than the price point of the more expensive one.
I bought one. It was fine. I didn’t love the operation. It cut the whole top off from the side, rather than from the top in a downwards cut. The sharp edges were on the can rather than on the lid. It would catch the paper labels and sometimes wad them up into the can while you cut. Cans with no air space would leak when opened.
Anyway. Replaced it in 2019. Amazon still had a broad selection, but all except for obvious crap was as expensive as the local big box store’s expensive option. Wound up going to a smaller local(ish) bulk foods store and bought a cheapo restaurant one for less than Amazon’s/the big box store’s similar offerings. Minimal rusting to date.
I had a similar experience with a juicer. The hand ones kept breaking so I bought a rack and pinion beast from a restaurant supply company that will be inherited by my grand kids.
It cost me less than half of what Amazon wanted, and it wasn't cheap
I had experiences like this one a lot. Most of the time what you get in Amazon cheap ist trash. All the good stuff isn't much cheaper most of the time, 35€ instead of 40€ sounds legit. For me at least (worker, 2 Kids, most def. not rich) this ist not enough to buy from the devil thats kills all thats is good
That sounds like a really shitty one, actually. The can openers that operate on the side of the can should uncrimp the top, not actually cut into the can.
Very probable. I was also not the most economically secure back then. I was trying to save money on a $20 can opener!
As far as distractions from the Epstein Files go, this is an exciting one.
Can't wait for them to be fined one penny for every $20B made.
Hey now, don’t get your hopes up.
I cannot express enough how angry I am that people still use amazon. Major cringe when friends tell me all the shit they buy on there. I used it 10 years ago a couple times, never once since then. Its shit, slave labor, and enriches billionaires. No one forces you to use it.
Unfortunately, they are a master at driving local businesses out of money. Buying a certain pet food at my local retailer (a franchisee) would be about $30. On Amazon, it's $25 (and sometimes even $15-20, if you do the subscription discount). At the local store, I'd have to pay more and drag the stuff home on my own feet.
It's the Walmart model. A lot of the frustration is that it's a systemic problem where individuals are incentivized against their best interests and the best interests of their communities.
Because shareholders. The Line, must go up.
Thankfully (/s) Amazon has enough money that it's cheaper to bribe politicians than provide a better product. So systemic solutions are that much more difficult.
It’s cringe because it’s affordable and convenient? Whenever I buy something from there I always price compare online and it’s the cheapest hands-down. Some people don’t have the luxury of constantly considering geopolitics and large-scale repercussions when they’re just simply trying to get by.
It super depends on what you’re buying. Personally, I just go without in order to avoid them. The only things I ever buy from Amazon are things I cannot find anywhere else that I need to have, such as water filters for the lead pipes in Montréal.
We don’t have the luxury to ignore how bad Amazon is. Amazon is aware of this and does everything it can to force you to buy from them by under cutting other businesses until competition dries up. Every time I can buy something for a little bit more and skip Amazon that’s a huge a win for everyone from the original supplier, the more local store selling it, and the working class in general.
Edit: Reading and writing more comments, I’m gunna find a way to get those filters from elsewhere even if they cost a bunch more.
No bro water filters from Amazon are unethical, please expose yourself to lead because some guy on lemmy is virtue signaling /s
I cannot tell what side of the argument you’re trying to be on here, gunna be real hokest with ya.
I mean what I said. I also buy water filters from Amazon because I suck water straight from the ground. Some times the water is yellow and needs to be filtered.
Did you miss the part where I said I’d be looking for filters elsewhere even if they cost a bunch more?
I think personal safety is more important than virtue signaling. You should have used your political power to regulate it before it became a critical service in communities. I hate Amazon, yet I am dependent on it. I come from the side of nuance. You want to handle Amazon you monopoly bust it. Boycotting won’t help.
I have always voted progressive, never even centrist. I live in Canada, also, but yea I don’t actually make the rules but the people I vote for to make said rules don’t like Amazon either.
That’s my only point it doesn’t matter if there’s a group of consumers boycotting them if the government doesn’t listen to those constituents. Amazon is a political problem not a consumer problem.
Sure, but there's many people who are wealthy enough to make the choice and still use amazon because they dont know any better. And this is what happens.
Understandable, perhaps one day I’ll be in that boat myself. Amazon has pissed me off in a few ways and I’m definitely looking for alternatives. Regardless of where I shop, I feel like my money is still going into the same greedy pockets unless it’s a local brick and mortar store.
Its true, but perfect is the enemy of good. If 10,000 people quit using amazon right now, that's a huge difference. And millions of people use it.
(*) https://krakowtop.org/auschwitz-room-of-hair/
Jesus H Fucking Christ. How about electing a government that will regulate Amazon instead of comparing poor people who need consumer goods to nazis. This is some tankie ass behavior
You missed the point completely, so I'll lay it out for you: Everyone has to draw a line SOMEWHERE. And when a country whose government sends fascist death squads into the streets is supported by a company, there's a fuckton of lines to be drawn.
There's ZERO excuse for doing business with amazon. No one is starving because they can't shop there. So GTFO with your lazy ass morally corrupt exuses.
Yeah, these people saying they NEED amazon probably didn't live in ye olden days without internet. We survived then, you can survive now.
There's thousands if not millions of sellers all over the internet. People are lazy/dumb and just want to 1 click buy and are scared to go anywhere but amazon.
And then have the nerve to argue on behalf of "poor people" most of whom probably don't have any spare money to buy convenience products on amazon.
I mean Walmart wiped out every other store so that's usually where "poor" people have to go, especially in small towns. Amazon is doing it on a much larger scale.
Now that we have a dictator I find it hilarious you’re trying to do the steps from before we have a dictator. It’s too late for boycotts and protests and voting. You missed your chance for that 10 years ago. Amazon’s got cheap body armor.
Great reason to business with Amazon. Armor plates and carrier. Gun mods. These are real expressions of political will. Enjoy your boycott. Glad you’re privileged enough to have money and options on places to purchase consumer goods. Super happy for you. Very righteous.
Sorry bub I’ve got plants to feed. Don’t worry my neighbor is going to genocide us no matter where we buy water filters from.
Feel free to provide goods to my rural community any time! You can’t believe that poor people have budget consideration and seek the cheapest product?
Use eBay or literally any other site. What is so specific to amazon that you need ? Amazon isn't even cheaper in many cases if you actually search.
eBay’s just as fucking bad? They monopolized your post office pricing and fix prices on their market place, they manipulate visibility and charge more for promotions. It’s the same scam with a different name lmao
Once all the competitors are gone, they will increase the prices to absurd, heartless levels
I avoid Amazon as much as possible, though on occasion I've more or less had no other reasonable choice. But that's happened something like 4 times in the last 10 years or so.
The big problem with boycotting Amazon is that while it's easy enough to avoid buying from their online store as much as possible, AWS (Amazon Web Services) is pretty much unavoidable if you're using the modern internet.
Market regulates itself or somthing.
I heard there was an invisible hand that I should trust.
Yeah, that's what the Health Care CEOs assassin was doing, just a minor self-correction in the Free Market. That CEO's policies pissed off a customer bad enough that the customer eliminated the problem, and that company, and every other health care company, loosened up their denials significantly as a result.
That's the Free Market working the way it's supposed to. That assassin should be celebrated for working within the system to balance the market.
It wasn't Luigi though.
I've been telling people to stop supporting amazon for years, but everyone seems to have their reason to keep supporting them. This hopefully will be a good enough reason for people to finally stop shopping on amazon.
I haven't bought anything from amazon in over 12 years. I find everything on the manufacturer's website or eBay. No need to ever use amazon for anything.
Your point is valid and definitely a concern.
But how are people so basic.
You hate Amazon, but just have to have your caramel syrup? Doesn't really sound like hate.
Sounds more like you do not want to have to make sacrifices to the things you like.
Wonder why bad things continue to happen.
I use Amazon too. Not trying to be too judgy, but come on. Accept some personal responsibility for your actions.
Oh gosh. Great 6 paragraph essay countering made up points I wasn't making.
Choosing Amazon for a dr recommended medicine is definitely the same as choosing it for your coffee flavoring.
Nevermind the part where I said I also use Amazon.
My point is unless you are under duress, you are responsible for your actions.
Lol. We just disagree. Your point seems to be all or nothing with the blame. I believe there is never 0 personal liability unless under duress.
I am well read, and I gather you are too. No point going further with you here.
Enjoy
I would like a thing. All retail commerce has been monopolized by a handful of big box storefronts. One of those storefronts sucks marginally less than the others, such that I can actually find what I want to buy and expect it to be delivered in a timely fashion.
But I shouldn't shop there because... ???
Damn, so true. We should never have quit shopping at
TargetWalmartSearsWoolworths. Now we live in Capitalist Hell and its all our own fault.You shouldn't shop there because of their blatantly anti-consumer monopolistic practices.
$1000 says you're, at best, a college kid. Probably a teenager.
Why? People with actual life experience in this shitty system don't make the personal responsibility argument because they've lived enough to know that's bullshit.
Companies like Amazon can't exist if people don't buy from them. The fact that you think people have to buy from them is the problem.
No one has to spend their money with Amazon. There's always going to be a personal responsibility aspect when people willingly do something they know is wrong.
We're not talking about Facebook. We're talking about buying things.
What a facile argument.
So you think people aren't responsible for where they choose to spend their money? Is Amazon holding a gun to their head?
How about... you do what you want with your own money and let other people do the same?
I do. It's just the claim that people aren't personally responsible for where they choose to spend their money is preposterous.
Yeah, free will sucks like that...
Lol, I'll take my $1000.
Sorry that you lack logical thinking. Enjoy your coffee.
I've found the Shop App to be a good alternative along with eBay. Shop App is basically a search engine for retailers who use Shopify, which is a ton of them. From my research it seems to be generally better for retailers.
I was going on buy some jack stands for my car and saw the exact same models from harbor freight or auto zone on Amazon. Even if you're not trying to support Amazon, you can't escape the slop products.
Amazon, in many cases, is not the seller. They are simply an online market. The reason you see the same products across multiple websites is because it is the same product. Doesn’t really have anything to do with shitty products although that’s what a lot of people do. They take advantage of Amazon’s monopoly on the market and sell products for hundreds if not thousands of dollars % mark ups. The reason it’s still cheaper on Amazon is because of the aforementioned price fixing.
Hey pal, do not use shit stores for car work. You are endangering your life. Please get a proper jack from Napa or at least northern tool or something. Harbor freight is for pry bars and shit, not life saving equipment.
Get a carlyle Jack as well. Affordable and lasts a lifetime. Dont skimp.on anything holding a car or an engine. I don't care how poor you are. You will get hurt.
I would like to remove the word "slop" from common speech for overuse. Sorry for your jack stand experience.
Okay. Here's my story. I have been looking for a 4K 32 to 43 inch monitor for my PC. TV or monitor, I just wanted 4k 120hz minimum. Didn't really care about IPS or VA panels. Both have their pro's and con's.
So I ended up getting a Philips Google TV 43" 4K Gaming TV with native 144Hz refresh rate. The asking price from Amazon was 450 CAD. everywhere I looked online It was 50 bucks more OR they were the same price, but charged 50 bucks in shipping.
THAT'S why I use Amazon. IF I can find it cheaper elsewhere, I'll buy it somewhere else. For me price is everything since I'm on a fixed income.
Okay, but have you considered that Amazon is the reason prices are high?
Obviously, none of these other retailers had a hand in it.
Exactly what they got "busted" for
You're not alone in that. A lot of people's care for ethics ends where a good deal begins.
What you should know is that these companies offer these good deals for a variety of reasons, but usually involving shady or borderline illegal business practices in one way or another.
I understand you're on a fixed income - I sympathize with that and I don't want to be rude to a stranger - but is the deal on a particular item you want worth the cost of endorsing what these companies do and stand for?
That 50 bucks means I only eat rice for a week. I've done it before, but I do not enjoy it.
$50 is the difference between having to eat only rice for a week, but you absolutely NEED a gaming monitor thats 32-43 inches with 4K resolution and 120hz refresh rate?
The only person your justifying your continued use of amazon to is yourself, and you're doing a poor job.
Average Lemmy user 😅
And I'll keep on doing it!
More power to you I guess. Hogs love rolling in shit.
I only roll in yours, because apparently it doesn't stink...
I don't think I'm expressing myself clearly. I understand the fixed income part and what 50 bucks can do to a person's living situation. No issue there.
On the front end of your decision, you're starting with "I need X with Y and Z". None of these variables are negotiable? The "need" isn't negotiable? Or are they not as negotiable as the care for the company's awful business practices?
The systemic issues are the primary concern, but it is worth thinking about and examining within ourselves. We are ill-equipped to make informed decisions prior to every purchase. However, once we know how a particular purchase supports degrading the world around us, where is the line we won't cross for a good deal?
I"m sorry my horse apparently doesn't go as high as yours... 🙄
That's needlessly insulting after I've been nothing but cordial with you. Me bringing up things that bring you discomfort to think about doesn't mean I'm the bad guy here. Have a nice day, and enjoy your TV.
clip clop, clip clop, clip clop...
Aren't most people on a fixed income?
Is such a TV... necessary?
Have you considered saving some for a few months and then buy the TV?
What do you think I've been doing? That took me four months.
There are a lot of people online who think that 100% abstinence from The Bad is the only way to be good.
But if you can shift 10% of your former Amazon spending, do it. And keep looking for a way to get to 15%, then 20%, and so on.
Like, I'm probably never going to be a strict vegetarian. I love a good burger, or a nicely-cooked steak, or a big bowl of chicken and dumplings. But I eat vegetarian for more than 75% of my meals. And that's good enough for me.
It was also the implied "Poor people shouldn't have nice things" That ticked me off.
No, most people are on broken incomes.
Not to leave out they're easy to return stuff too.
Indeed.
Same boat, I cancelled prime 5 years ago. My wife will activate for the holidays but I refuse to use it
I find the Amazon experience and prices to often be worse than elsewhere
Supposing the prices they charge are still less than what you would pay for the convenience of purchasing a product with no extra effort, why would you switch?
I have myself had aspirations to buy fewer things from Amazon. However. Even including stuff like this, I am happy to pay $10 extra to not have to dick around.
I hope Amazon has to pay money for this and that it hurts their business model, bit as a customer they are still scratching my itch 2 times out of 3.
Yeah, IIRC when a bunch of large corporations got away with doing this in the 1980s and 90s, a lot of us just assumed it would keep happening. Some people have tried raising the alarm about this, but have been shouted down pretty consistently.
👏🏻 We 👏🏻 demand 👏🏻 public 👏🏻 executions 👏🏻
BREAKING NEWS!!
Evil company known for being evil is caught doing evil things!
Easy solution: don't use Amazon.
You lived without it before. You can do it again.
They drove a large swath of stores out of business. It’s vastly more difficult
Yeah it was a trap.
The best you can do now is order a lot of stuff directly from China.
Time to replace Amazon dropshipping with AliExpress.
Probably same vendor at the end.
The only iasue I see is local customer service and return of an order.
That is way easier with Amazon (at the cost of the seller).
AliExpress’ purchase protection is a total farce.
In one case, I was shipped the wrong variant of an item and the seller was totally unresponsive. Submitted evidence, AliExpress closed the case saying that Tracking shows it was delivered. No way to appeal.
In another case, I ordered something to my business and the Chinese courier service left the parcel out front on a public sidewalk. Naturally, the parcel was stolen. The courier service eventually admitted, in writing, that the delivery was mishandled and that the shipper was the only one who could file a claim. Once again, vendor unresponsive, AliExpress closes the case saying @Tracking shows delivered” with no way to appeal.
Meanwhile, I had a $1,000 Amazon package get stolen the other week and they refunded it with minimal fuss. The return policy is so easy might as well be “try before you buy”. I can see why people have a hard time de-Amazoning.
Amazon sure did refund it.
And then proceeded to charge the seller the amount + handling fees.
Anyway: As I said, AE customer handling is...difficult.
I already look there first :)
Def the same vendor at the end (well most of the time on the kind of stuff I buy)
The amount I save on 3-4 things is usually enough to negate an Amazon purchase.
That said, I'm not the kind of person who makes big or risky purchases from either of these places.
One time I shopped for an ESP32 with an USB-C slim cable (3m) and a weather safe enclosure.
Amazon: >40€
AliExpress: <30€ (incl. shipping but waiting thrice as long).
Oh well, didnt need it fast anyway ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
And to add to that, try searching for a product on a search engine.
Almost always the first links are Amazon.
And a lot of times there are no other options.
That's like saying the simple solution to global warming is for people to not burn fossil fuels. It ignores the conditions that led to this becoming a problem in the first place; and it ignores the power of entrenched industry to protect their own interest.
What we need is political reform. so that the bodies that are supposed regulate industry and serve the public are empowered to make the necessary reforms. Lina Kahn was doing just that (before Trump got elected again in 2024)
I'm not trying to diminish the importance and role of personal accountability and individual action, but as a solution to affect meaningful change it falls well short.
This has been my play since last February. In some ways it sucks, because Amazon really cornered the market on niche solutions to niche problems. However, when there is something I absolutely need I try to look for a local solution and if I can't find that, I use eBay. By no means a perfect solution (ie. a lot of the eBay vendors still use Amazon to fulfill their shipments) but my mindset shifted from "oh yeah go on Amazon and press Buy Now immediately" to really working through a solution, and whether or not I need to purchase an item to enact that solution.
Hell, even ebay and etsy will drop ship you stuff from amazon :(
yes, always disappointing when this happens, but you can usually find vendors who avoid the practice (with some trial and error).
Return it and don’t let them send you Amazon’s return label so they have to pay for shipping. Returns absolutely destroy drop shippers.
That’s easy to take a noble stance when you can afford it. A lot of people rely on the cheapest prices just to get by.
Amazon isn't the cheapest option in many cases. What you're saying makes sense if people shop around, the problem is that they generally don't.
Even if I add shipping costs, Amazon is typically more expensive. I order my car parts from rock auto and have NEVER found Amazon to be cheaper even after adding shipping costs. They were cheap maybe a decade ago when they were trying to fold everybody else but they got enough fools by the short and curlies to start jacking prices up until people start looking elsewhere. Same formula as Wal Mart, it's a proven good practice for big corps to kill local and small businesses.
Dependso n the area, in remote areas amazon can be WAY cheaper so long as you pass the free shipping threshold even if the items themselves are more expensive.
I feel like that's any retailer now. Most places online offer free shipping if you hit some threshold.
Expect for you know the fact Amazon ran 40% of businesses out of business and covid killed another 40%.
Your option in the vast majority of the case is to get fucked or use Amazon/AliExpress which is just Amazon China edition.
Which is infinitely worse then Amazon. At least Amazon has basic consumer protections unlike AliExpress.
You can find the same shit on AliExpress without the Bezos tax.
Hell yeah, if there's one thing I already can't get on Amazon is Chinese knockoffs /s
What is this a solution to? You're going to pay high prices even if you don't buy from Amazon, due to Amazon's illegal price fixing. That's what the OP is about.
Things are at a point where the only solution is in the courts.
Nothing will change until there's jail time for executives.
So, jail time it is for Jeff Bezos, right?
This is and has been part of Amazon's contract to be listed on their site since the beginning. They are not even remotely the only one doing this. It's an industry norm in digital storefronts. Valve has also been sued for this several times. I don't know why we're acting like this is a recent discovery.
We need to just ban this practice, because as long as they're allowed to, they will.
Valve states you can’t sell a steam key in another platform for cheaper than in steam, not that you can’t sell your game anywhere else at a lower price. That’s slightly different than here. Not defending it just saying that it is actually different than here.
I just want to add in that what Valve has as official policy and what they actually practice differ in this case. Because yes, their policy states it's for keys only. However, they have admitted in court that if the publisher has it as a cheaper price elsewhere, they will delist your game
Source?
The Wolfire versus Valve antitrust case.
They submitted evidence of email chains from Valve customer support stating that they want Valve to have the best deal available and that they will not choose to do business with companies that do not give them the best deal.
On top of that, they also went on record stating that the steam product key page under the Steamworks area is meant to be intended for all products on Steam, not just keys.
It's a textbook example of, hey look, this is our policy that's written down, but we don't actually follow it.
Thx, I'll look it up
This is good to know. Can you provide a link to that court case or anything?
I have the docket link which is here but its a mess because the original case was dismissed back in 2021, but then amended and merged to contain a larger case.
I used to have the actual document number somewhere if i can find it I will let you know as well. Sadly when the case started getting media attention valve started filing for seal motions on newer evidence, but I don't /think/ they retroactively sealed anything.
The case is well worth a read, the intent on it is of course valves potential monopoly on video game storefront but it goes into detail about other providers as well. It aims to focus on the valve 30% cut system they use and whether valve uses their market position to abuse or not. I don't personally think they do, because I feel their choices are fair in a business mentality, but it's cool reading about others POV's on it.
Thank you! This is really good info. I’ll take a look!
This is why you shouldn’t buy US
Meanwhile in Canada, if something falls into a niche good luck finding it in person. It's getting beyond frustrating trying to buy in person to avoid Amazon, then finding out that nowhere carries it and having to order from Amazon anyway.
That's what we get when Canada is a handful of monopolies in a trenchcoat instead of a country.
I'd assume because in general we have smaller cities. I used to be big into RC stuff (remote control boat and car) and there were hobby shops around. All gone, or converted into old people hobby supplies only (macramé, bead work, hook rugs, etc)
I got all my shit on Hobbyking and aliexpress.
I also get my dental floss, electric toothbrush heads, and underwear on aliexpress. So it works both ways, the local retailers aren't getting my money.
A couple days ago I looked up a regional supplier of pickled foods so I could tell a friend about them. They shipped all over at least the US for reasonable prices. Now their site just links to the Amazon pages.
Quickest solution? Stop buying from Amazon. I quit cold turkey and the sky does not fall. I still buy what I need. I am sometimes saved from buying stuff that I don't really need but was easily available. Just stop buying from them. They are the evil capitalism that everyone complains about.
But but but capitalism, free market, competition, etc. etc. etc ...
This is OK because our Leaders are Looking out For the COMMON man! That's why I'm going to ENTHUSIASTICALLY Vote for the Billionaire AGAIN!
/s (Poe’s Law) ftfy
I'm always a little shocked when people ask me if my product is on Amazon. I never even considered it because I've known what they are for so long; it's been a bit of a wakeup call that most people still have no idea how fucking awful Amazon is. It sucks struggling with market visibility, selling just from my own website, but it beats the hell out of being bullied like this until I'm big enough to have my product stolen and copied by Amazon Basics.
The appeal of Amazon is the things that surround the store.
When I buy from a random website it often takes weeks to ship, costs more to ship, makes me deal with CC fraud if something is untoward, fights me on returns and I usually have to pay to ship back etc etc.
Amazon is bad for a number of reasons but the main driver for me is not the choice of things on there, it's everything else.
And that’s what they innovated. Anyone can make a website that sells shit. They innovated the supply chain, storage, shipping and delivery.
You have to do way more marketing since you can't rely on search result hits, right?
It would be cool if there were a business fediverse type deal where searching worked across all the small business federated web sites. Such a network should putposely exclude or kick out (politely and with a celebration) anyone that got too large, to maintain a small business focus to basically give the little guys a leg up.
It would be like a fediverse small bis cooperative kinda thing. That way there would be a search box for products and services that everyone could use to search the entire small bis network. And this would bypass monopolies like Google or Amazon.
Search results on Amazon are fully pay-to-play anyway. You don't get anywhere near the top of the list without paying for the privilege. No big deal for slop producers who sell in volume, but basically useless for small businesses or private sellers.
Didn't know. Thanks for saying that.
So it makes even more sense for the small buinesses to organize online under a special coop charter to fight off the icky monopolies.
Like small mom and pop grocers could band together to order in volume to get a similar discount to walmart. It might be hard to organize this for grocers in meat space, but should be more plausible to set up a coop fediverse site with a highly small bis protective charter written by a lawyer.
Maybe the way to handle the members that got too big and too successful for the coop network is to celebrate those members for a month by promoting them in a farewell promotion, then move them to a harder to acess "alumni" section of the site, instead of instantly and totally cutting them off. Someone more business oriented than me should think about the details.
My main point is that small anybodies should organise, and not just the workers. Small businesses are routinely oppressed, and should organize and fight back. If we wait for our billionaire-captured government to bust the trusts, we might have to wait a minute.
I'm just gonna leave this here
Fabric.com they did the same thing with.
Now you can't buy fabric by the yard hardly anywhere.
Joanne's filed for bankruptcy and then closed, Michael's has it sometimes, hobby lobby... they'll take your money and make sure you're gay cousin can't get married..
The mom and pop fabric stores are dead..
I guess we'll own nothing and be happy about it
Edit. Damn you autocorrect! Edit2. Clarity
I think you mean own nothing. Under capitalism you owe everything ;) just found the typo amusing
i owe my soul to the company store
Haha I wish it was owe. Autocorrect brought forth my hopes and dreams there apparently. Lol
Thanks for the heads-up tho.
Oh wow. First I've heard of this.
well they also see what products are doing well on their site, then making exact copies to sell at a loss to kill the original maker, then once the captured competition is killed take their place and inflate the price
Seen this happen on multiple occasions. I assumed it was other sellers, but now, I'm not so sure.
And nothing will be done about it probably
lol
how far the mighty have fallen to be compared unfavorably to aliexpress. sheesh.
Aliexpress search results are garbage. A dozen knockoffs of the same thing, sorting doesn't work, and when you search for a specific part it shows you the price of the right product but the wrong variety.
But it's cheaper than Amazon, cuts out Bezos, and for standard shipping is usually about as fast.
I cancelled prime a while back and I've been mostly trying to order direct from manufacturers when possible. Costs more but I figure that's the price of not contributing to a known bad actor in some small way.
Thanks for the summary. I'll keep in in mind if I can't find a more direct route.
It's probably still cheaper than prime. It hasn't been worth the money for me for years. I still try to buy from local businesses that deserve support first, though.
First time using AliExpress I got scammed. I got a refund, at least, but I haven't been back since.
how did you get scammed if you got a refund?
I don't know how AliExpress works internally. It was one of the apparently common scams where the seller pretends to ship a package to you. It's scam #5 in this list: https://www.reddit.com/r/Aliexpress/s/YEqwsP1ef6
hmmm don't know. I am sure there are scams out there, no doubt. But your situation is identical to a "lost in the mail" scenario.
My point is that if AliExpress made you whole, all you lost was time. It sucks but I would not considered myself to be scammed if at the end of the day I have my money back.
I don't think I would trust Ali or Amazon (which I rather not use, period) with anything over $100 just in case anyway.
I'm the same way I'll look up a product... When it's obviously an import.. I'll just go to AliExpress and get it there.
The time savings isn't worth the additional price imho
The fucking TikTok shop is better
LOL WTF are you talking about!? Virtually everything on AliExpress is a scam.
E: God damn tankies at it again
Seems to me like over half the crap on Amazon is just drop shipped AliExpress junk anyway. Why not cut out the middle asshole?
Do you think AliExpress is manufacturing all that shit? It's a digital storefront (middle asshole), just like Amazon. Difference is Amazon will refund just about anything with no questions asked. And actually attempts to crack down on straight scams. Ali will just tell you "better luck next time". Not to mention that they blocked my VPN so I couldn't buy from them if I wanted to.
Yeah it’s cutting out one of the middle assholes so it’s one instead of two. From the stuff I get recommended on Amazon it’s pretty clear they don’t care about false advertising either. Cant help you with your vpn problem though
It's not cutting out anyone, it's just a different middle asshole.
No it’s cutting out Amazon, as the stuff on Amazon came from Aliexpress already.
Once again, AliExpress is not a manufacturer. It's a digital storefront. Just like Amazon. You're not cutting out anyone.
I tried buying from Aliexpress once, they rejected all of my credit cards, so I asked their support, who wanted documents from my bank, so I gave it to them, and crickets. Tried contacting them again, same issue, so I literally cannot buy anything from that site and now they have banking information of mine for no reason. Whereas Amazon just works.
I’ve pointed out Valve doing basically the same thing; games can’t be priced lower than Steam on competing game storefronts (not Steam key resellers), or Valve will threaten to delist your game. Which would be essentially kill it. And they obviously do this to protect their chunky store fee.
But personal loyalty goes a long way.
I’m trying to reframe the perspective here, not drag into an argument about Valve. A whole lot of people feel good about finding “deals” on Amazon, about Amazon services that have helped them, and especially about the value and convenience the whole platform provides. It’s easy for Lemmy to hate on Amazon, but for the average person, I think this is a harder sell than most of us realize. They’ll dismiss it as the “market working” or California sensationalism or, more likely, just filter it out as noise in their feed, just like most PC gamers would when they read something bad about Valve.
You can stop buying from Amazon whenever you choose to. There are online alternatives to every product they sell. You don't need to be part of it. Whatever excuse you give is wrong.
Bought something from AliExpress last week. Showed up in an Amazon box 😐 Aggravating that the only way to avoid them is apparently to never shop online. I already mostly don't, but sheesh.
Happens to me with eBay too. Sucks.
Yep. That has happened to me, too.
I bought something off Facebook marketplace that turned out to be someone proxying Amazon. I respect the hustle on that one, I suppose I deserved it for not checking more throughly.
Lol! I think this AliExpress shop was doing the same probably. Just maybe more automated (maybe).
Those sellers post their stuff on every marketplace they can, and just fulfill it through their Amazon store. Ebay, Etsy, Walmart, Best Buy, etc, are all full of Amazon sellers.
That's about what I was thinking. Can't entirely fault the sellers, everybody's got their hustle to keep their heads above water.
But goddamn that should ring alarm bells for any policymaker who gives a shit. (I know, I know)
Yeah, I'm in the US and what you described matches the experience here too.
One major point though, the physical locations still have to pay humans, in my community, to operate. It's not much, but these days I consider it roughly a moral duty to do what I can to force companies to spend money on employees.
And then otherwise at our house we just buy more and more stuff second hand. Quality in everything is trash anymore, even just packaging is barely functional trash these days. Everything you open destroys itself, including stuff that's supposed to reseal with a zipper, like a bag of cheese. Gotta make line go up!
I definitely can't comment on what your situation looks like to you directly, but where I live, I find your description of nothing but "lil Istanbuls" in the "inner cities" to sound super suspicious. Gross, honestly.
In the US that's roughly the exact sentiment (not far from exact words, truly!) that the most egregious Trump supporters spew everywhere they can. To be clear, these folks rarely visit a city in any capacity and will often tell stories for weeks when they do. All the while getting themselves worked up enough to collect legitimate small arsenals (not hypothetical "har har, Americans", I've known many people young and old like this).
I dunno. I can't see what it looks like from your eyes, fundamentally. But are you sure you're as unwelcome as you think in the immigrant shops, or even shopping areas/neighborhoods? I randomly pop into whatever vaguely or strongly "ethnic" shop or restaurant and never have a bad time. Pretty often have some fantastic times! Just go shop there and let yourself be (a little) vulnerable and clueless, is the advice I'd give my lost warped countrymen.
Sounds like you're describing a different desired experience, I don't mean to be TOO reductive, but idk. Cultural integration can work both ways, it's fun and dope to learn and enjoy what other people like, might be my single favorite experience on Earth 🤙
Look here for alternatives of Amazon: https://lmaa.space/
Kinda suspected they were doing that. Looked at some drywall panel lifts this morning and saw one for $75. Shipping however was $247. Dropped that like a hot rivet
I mean, that makes sense to me at least. Drywall lifts aren't difficult machines, they're basically a lifting mechanism on a steel frame.
However, they are heavy and big mother fuckers, and therefore cost a ton to ship. Shipping is damned expensive, even without price fixing and gouging.
True but $240+ just seems excessive if the tool itself is priced 1/3 of that
It depends on a lot of things. Weight, truck availability, packaging size, whatever deal the manufacturer has with the shipping company, warehouse location, etc.
Supply chain management is an absolute unsolvable beast. I used to help out a local warehouse business, and the amount of work that went solely into optimizing their shipping costs was staggering
The guy they had on staff whose job it was to optimize everything was paid more than the owner or co-owner, and it was worth every penny. Dude was making 300k a year + 2% of all cost savings. Dude saved them 4.5 million on shipping costs according to the paper work I saw. And this is pre AI. Dude was doing all of this with scripts and spreadsheets
Astonishing what happens when people are paid what they're worth
I know but amazon has a policy for non prime users that items over $35 qualify for free shipping. After dropping that deal I looked at some on a couple big box homimprov stores and they have some that are double the amazon item price but ship free so a net savings of around $100 on the deal
cApItAlIsM
I figured as such when I noticed, on multiple occasions, prices for random products would just suddenly change, multiple times a week for different people I knew. And also how seemingly multiple different pages for the same product were available with a word switched here and there... friends got product page 1, I got product page 2. Same product different price. Amazon always seemed shady to me and was kinda surprised it was always the go to online store for people.
I could never trust a price on amazon, even though they were always almost always cheaper than local alternatives.
It all started careening downhill when they swapped to whatever marketplace crap is in place now. OG amazon was a revelation back in the day.
I mean...Sold amd shipped by Amazon is still a thing.
But even they sell counterfeited items.
So the only way to get a 100% genuine item is through the manufacturer (e.g. Samsung and storage media) or hope and pray you don't get a scam product/test it after receiving.
Honestly: Aliexpress at times feels more genuine than Amazon. If it wasnt for the 20 stores by the same authenticated seller (the seller page is more obscured than on Amazon)
Or I receive an already open item. I get those so much that that alone stops me from using amazon.
At least with warehouse, you are already aware and prepared to receive it :p
Capitalism at it's most advantageous to humanity.
They need to make (most favoured nation status) illegal. Sellers should be free to set the price they want on any platform. If a seller can offer it cheaper on their own site, or on another platform, they should be allowed to.
Why is "(most favored nation status)" in parentheses?
I'm honestly surprised they never got hit for this. It's one thing for our antitrust system to be shit, but to look at a policy that explicitly states "you have to give us the best possible price otherwise we will kick you off our platform and take away the majority of your possible customers" isn't even burying the lead at all.
When you have a government of criminals, it emboldens those not in government
The only time that I use Amazon now is when I cannot get the item that I need either in the city that I live in first or another online retailer. My Amazon spending as decreased significantly since I left prime in January of 2025.
The issue I've had with the "Just shop somewhere else. Don't use Amazon" is that it's very US-specific response. Amazon has absolutely dominated the online shopping space in Canada for years because they are one of the few companies that dealt with the biggest reason why shopping online in Canada has been difficult: Shipping. $20-$40+ domestic shipping fees are normal in Canada for most other retailers which means you could be paying double the cost of your order (or more) just on shipping alone, so as soon as Amazon came in and offered free coast-to-coast shipping they had basically won the market instantly. There were teething issues, of course, and their earlier shipping contractors were horrendous but they did smooth most of that out.
Nowadays they still have very little competition that can beat them on shipping, but there are more and more options popping up. There are some Canadian online stores that offer free shipping or free if over a certain reasonable amount. The COVID pandemic really pushed a lot of local retailers to set up affordable online ordering and delivery systems for local customers, so that has also become an option. Aliexpress has also greatly improved their free shipping process to Canada and considering most of what Amazon sells is just rebranded Aliexpress stuff, it's a great way of getting the same items for cheaper if you're ok waiting a few extra days. So most of my online purchases these days have been a mixture of Canadian retailers and Aliexpress.
Amazon in shambles!
Hold up everyone. Think of the shareholders.
Carry on California. I need to cutdown and eventually stop purchasing from Amazon.
Until there is serious punishment for corporations nothing ever changes with the amount of abuse they can do.
Busted? It's well know Amazon price fixes across the economy and forces sellers to charge for the product, plus the listing fees to get on the first two pages of searches , now creeping up to 40%.
Absence of feces? I was never impressed with the prices.
So the fine for price fixing is $100M and Amazon is worth $2 trillion so that’s like 20,000x bigger than the fine. I think they will survive this one gang
This has been their standard business practice for over a decade. There are already tons of apps and browser plugins that track prices on amazon items and list the lowest/highest they've been listed at.
Amazon NUTTED 🤤🤤🤤🤤🤤
This is what consumers deserve when they let big players become monopolies just because they're a tiny bit more convenient. Enjoy!
It's not the fault of consumers, monopolization and price fixing are inevitable outcomes of capitalism. Even if people somehow weren't attracted by lower prices, amazon would do all sorts of shenanigans to drive competition out of business or agree with them to fix prices.
Guess what there going to do to stop it. Nothing.
What? This is a press release from the California Attorney General literally taking about what they are doing in court right now.
How do you go from that to "thEy'Re DoiNg NothIng"?
So it'll stop happening after this court case? Right? Oh wait those are the crickets of reality.
The linked article is from California's office of the attorney general related to an existing lawsuit. As a non-Californian, I am supremely disappointed that this is happening just at the state level, but credit should still go where its due. And if their legal action sets a precedent that makes it easier for other states (or dare I hope, at the federal level if and when we get strong antitrust regulators like we had under Biden), then all the better.
All these comments reminded me why we got the personal responsibility to recycle plastic, and the corporations got more incentives to produce and consume plastic. All you tankies need to take responsibility for your voting habits and get out of poor people’s spending habits. You sound like the capitalists. Cut the avocado toast out and the world will change.
#NoShit