Hell, Mac OS is even a certified UNIX operating system, something that even Linux (or GNU+Linux) can't say.
It's still a non-FOSS OS which is the real reason it sucks, but it's a lot better than a lot of people seem to think. Whereas Windows just plain sucks on a usability level too, not just the licensing.
I read a deep dive into the macos "certified UNIX" thing and it's a scam. I dont remember the details but the certification is obtained only through a set of testing exceptions. The macos used by people is not the macos that is Unix certified.
As a former macos user (2013-2024ish), macos has become IMO a very user hostile experience. It's not quite as bad as windows, but macos is not the "user friendly, it (mostly) just works and gets out of your way" os it used to be.
I'm full time Linux now and when I have to use macos or windows I cannot believe how user hostile they both are.
Linux is far from perfect, but at least I control my system/os.
Oh hey. You’re me! I’ve historically been a very loyal Mac user who played with Linux here and there, but I’ve been full time Linux for the past few two years.
The UNIX certification is arbitrary and useless. Windows 11 could get it if they paid for it.
UNIX is irrelevant now anyway. Linux has taken its place, and every commercial UNIX (except for MacOS I guess) is at end of life or in maintenance mode now. They only still exist for a handful of applications that require decades of backwards compatibility.
However good it is and however many certificates it has i personally agree with the dogshit classification.
It won't install on any of about 8 computers in my house, including one I bought from apple. Literally unusable to me for the last 10ish years.
Windows would probably install on one or two of them I think, so I'll give it a few hypothetical points for usability for that.
Both got the deal with the devil clauses in their end user agreements, right? That's bad enough it does not even matter who's better or worse after that. That's already bad enough to not be fit to use.
Arch is high skill floor high skill ceiling. Once you get good you can do really cool things with it. GNU/Herd is high skill floor low skill ceiling. If you're really good and practice really hard, eventually you'll be able to do things that could have been easier achieved with literally anything else.
yes in a vm, specificly Debian GNU/hurd, works suprisingly, main issues is lack of hardware support, for usage as a vm guest, I would say it is already better than half of the BSDs
I think the double input is because while ysing gentoo you are either a szchizo or a chad... there is no in between. Cant confirm, i'm apparently a chad... and a server according to the rest of the community
Kali is a specialized toolset. Like a tricked out car. Pretty cool if you are a pro driver pushing the machine to its limits. But looks pathetic when driven by a high school guy trying to impress chicks
I haven’t coded in years and wanted to pick up python finally. I’m using ChatGPT to demonstrate all the wrong answers to problems and I have to admit it’s a great learning tool for an unexpected reason.
It is productively wrong. All the time. But by screwing with it I can learn why things do or do not work. It does not give me an answer direct but instead guides me through all the possible ways to screw things up and I can learn from that.
I haven’t coded since C++ and Java in high school outside some arduino shit I did for a bit in between and chatGPT has been great and bringing those skills back from cold storage in my brain.
But as far as put in question, get response it’s obviously terrible.
This kind of demonstrates the bigger problem though. Business majors are making decisions and not engineers. And business majors are fucking stupid outside their element.
On top of that, putting it below Windows? This is clearly someone who’s never used one or thinks gaming is the only thing you do on a computer. I’m all for Linux and use it in several places, but it has nothing on MacOS polish. Sure, it’s not perfect, but it’s a far cry from ChromeOS or Windows 11.
I’m all for Linux and use it in several places, but it has nothing on MacOS polish.
Literally why I prefer a Macbook for work and a Linux desktop for gaming. The former just works with a little bit of setup (brew), the latter allows for infinite tinkering and customizability.
While I loath windows, I would still put it above Mac if only for the ability to put windows on whatever you want. Even if Mac is more polished, the fact that it only works reasonably on vastly overpriced, mostly unrepairable hardware kills any appeal it would have. Add in apple's tendency to gimp devices as if a three year old machine is at deaths door, and I'll go to a customized windows os every time.
Also the gaming thing. It's not pinnacle, but it's also not trivial.
My MacBook Air is five years old still has 92% battery it’s not even close to deaths door for either me of Apple. My XPS 13 is five years old and has had its battery and thermal paste replaced.
I haven’t played a video game since Oregon Trail was new.
I used my 2011 iMac until two years ago and you can easily install Windows and Linux on a Mac so the whole gaming thing just isn't a valid complaint. It's not Apple that makes devs not port to MacOS as much (same with Linux).
I have a laptop from 2015 that microshit decided can't run Windows 11, so they're even worse.
You're objectively misinformed.
I'm highly critical of Apple, their philosophy for proprietary hardware with an aggressive stance against right to repair, and some particular design flaws on specific models of their machines that are unacceptable for the price point they sell their products at. Not to mention their ball coddling of the fascist fuck in the white house.
But MacOS is definitely superior to Windows, game developers not focusing on MacOS be damned. The bloat on Windows is beyond overkill, and MacOS's Unix based build for ultra specific hardware runs so much more efficiently. I used to play around with a hackintosh back when Mac OS X Lion was around.
Yup bought a MBP in my ignorant youth of 2008. It was beautiful sturdy HW at the time when most windows laptops were creaky plastic turds. After using Ubuntu for a few years Mac OS to me was like a nicer looking easier to use linux. However every 10-20 minutes the screen would flicker just once but it happened all consistently. Multiple report in forums about it and many cases opened but apple did nothing about it. Wouldn't even acknowledge it was a problem. Finally 5+ years later when most people were moving on they made a bios patch that acknowledged the issue and fixed it.
I've had my old macbook for twelve years and the whole time it held up punching well above its spec range and running heavy loads. I customized it deeply. Never had to reformat, which instead I had to do more or less once a year on my previous Windows computers. Whenever I asked it to jump it asked how high.
I don't think longevity argument has merit, at least for computers.
To be honest my SO has an older MacBook and using that a couple of times convinced me to absolutely never buy one myself (regarding the os).
I had to google the most basic functions which you can achieve with a right click on other systems
It seems people don't like my dislike of MacOS lol
It's surely just you not understanding that the real problem is that you don't know how to use it while you do know how to use whatever you're comparing it to.
MacOS has a different methodology but the idea is most applications do things the exact same way every time, the menu at the top is standardized across software. Take some time to familiarize yourself with basic usage and then just fire up a new program and you’ll see what I mean. Keyboard shortcuts in apps are always the same for the same function. They’re easily accessible. Alt+f4 is fucking not, command+q is. Command+space to search for anything. That existed before MS implemented search in the taskbar. It’s got its ups and downs, but the OS is really tailored to make things accessible.
The reason it’s so wildly different from windows is partly due to a Microsoft going patent crazy on design and ui elements to try and monopolize home computing. Technically a “desktop” is their patent, which is why it’s called a workspace in every other OS. They also have been sued by Microsoft in the past over UX things.
After I realized Ubuntu and Mint (the two distros I used the most) are both based on Debian, I switched to Debian with KDE Plasma. I don't know why I never tried it before and I'm never going back.
The reason you've never tried it before is probably that they only recently made an effort to make it palatable for the average nerd. It always had a bit of a reputation of being not easy to work with.
It's been fine for the average nerd for a couple decades. The installer has been mostly unchanged since 2005 or so, and I don't see much difference in an installed system either. I think you can live boot it ahead of installation now, maybe that's a big deal to some people?
The biggest deal was including non-free firmware on the install media.
In the past, if you used the official ISO and started the installation, it would format your disk and then inform you that it can't connect to your Wi-Fi to download additional software.
Then it would install the semi-complete bare-bones system that fit on one install disc and boot you into a desktop with no network configuration.
Ah, I forgot about that. Yes, that's a pretty big deal. Thanks for pointing that out. Debian have always been pretty purist about non-free software, to the detriment of new users.
To be fair, back then Ubuntu was basically just "Debian preconfigured for desktop with a check-box in the installer to include non-free stuff".
Debian today feels like old Ubuntu, and Ubuntu today feels like a distro made by a corporation desperately trying to enshittify Linux.
It doesn't work because the kernel is too old to support my new hardware (even though it's not always that new).
Rather than trying to fix it, just install Kubuntu instead.
Failing to have graphics drivers for my gaming PC with a GPU I bought the day it launched is one thing, but Debian also failed to have WiFi drivers for the cheap N100 NUCs I bought for my kids the other day -- with wifi hardware that'd been out for multiple years at this point -- and that's just ridiculous.
Kubuntu annoys me with Snaps, but it also Just Works in a way Debian unfortunately doesn't.
I think what will hurt them much more is the EU realizing the danger in dependence on American tech like Microsoft, and slowly replacing it with (open source) alternatives.
Meh. Granite is open source, and as long as they don't try to force integration with a third party service I'm down for local LLM integration. It's not all chatbots, and LLMs happen to be honestly pretty good at searching through eg man pages and pulling out relevant bits.
I don’t understand the hate for MacOS or Ubuntu frankly. Windows was fine until they stopped making “features” opt in. Fedora has been toying with adding AI, and my experiences with Arch have been subpar for my needs. I’m kinda at the point in my life where I don’t care as long as the OS works. They’re all so similar at the end of the day, they help me do the websites, work tools and vidya gaems.
That'll do it. The work might be impressive, but why care about a project that has one purely spite-driven goal that makes no technical or social sense?
It uses real init systems
What a completely childish tagline. Even if there was any merit to all the systemd hate, calling it “not a real init system” is absurd.
They stopped supporting GNOME based desktops and treat that in the most “sour grapes” way imaginable …
The distributions within the openSUSE project are, in my opinion, the most advanced and complete Linux distributions. They offer tools such as btrfs+snapper, openQA, Secure-boot, Firewall, Yast (Myrlyn+Agama), etc. as soon as the system is installed.
No other Linux distribution offers all of this configured immediately after installing the system. In my opinion, the openSUSE project is at the highest level of Linux, offering solutions for most users, fixed distributions such as Leap, rolling distributions such as Tumbleweed, immutable distributions such as Kalpa, etc.
I was not wrong for having suse be my os when I made the leap as a windows refugee in late 2003. It'd still be a great choice for windows refugees these days. Perhaps even the best choice.
You highlight why, very well.
OpenSUSE (and even the corporate version) deserve more praise. They seemed to get out-marketed by Ubuntu. But did not get beat for a better OS.
I look at it more like Artix exists to solve the one "problem" with Arch. As much as Arch is generally about user choice, the one thing it decided to be opinionated about was the mandatory use of systemd. Artix tries to follow Arch as closely as possible while providing the alternate init systems. I think that's pretty cool, even if their hatred of systemd is childish.
It's sole reason to exist is “no systemd because we hate it” (their tagline is literally something childish about “real init systems”) and they're willing to drop GNOME and friends on a dime for that goal.
Choosing Artix is like choosing some fork that differentiates itself by refusing to package vim for some reason.
Yeah it's sad to see the state of the community. Personally it wasn't a reason for me to leave though. I used Void in the past and started liking runit, so now i like to go off the beaten path when it comes to init systems. It's not very feasible to use NixOS without systemd though, apart from a few small projects that aren't well tested and barely have documentation. Initially i wanted to stick to runit, but recently i finally decided to give guix and shepherd a go. So far i do actually like that shepherd is a little less minimal compared to runit, and actually has more features baked in, like support for one-shot services, timers, and being able to make services depend on each other. I finally installed it on bare metal yesterday, but i still need to work on my config a bit.
Void's for sure one of the undersung heroes of the distrosphere.
It's my first go-to.
So very surprising, as it has been since it was still new, how well stocked it is. And so very reliable, to not have stupid package names. It's a little touch I very much appreciate.
So i've since moved to Arch (btw), but what's wrong with Manjaro? I never had an issue with it, but I have seen quite a few people dunking on it... just without any explanation.
I don't think there's anything particularly wrong with it. In my opinion, the only downside to Manjaro is when you activate the aur repository, as doing so can cause dependency conflicts because this repository is designed for Arch and not for Manjaro and its version timeline.
That's why I haven't been able to identify what's wrong. The get stuck usually when opening or when trying to save/open a file. So I'm guessing there's some dependency that is not working correctly.
Otherwise they run fine when not interacting with anything. I don't really know what's happening and at this point I think it may be easier to just have a clean install and start over
Bu' Bubunbu's more reliable. Different reasons to dislike. Manjy may be manjy and janky, but bubunbu's got an insane corporation behind it doing all the pop enshitification things.
So I guess I'm both "Chad" and "Schizo" at the same time.
And also "Cool And Good" on the side. (I run Fedora on a few machines. It's a relatively hassle-free no-nonsense distro that usually works for what i need.)
Does anyone else use Alpine Linux not in any containers?
I use it on my laptop with Sway and it's set up for my specific usage but it's where I spend 95% of my time. When I need to do something that just works without any hassle or thinking, I switch to old reliable Linux Mint DE.
I don't see Alpine in memes very often so I assume most people are sane and not trying to make a workstation out of Alpine.
I'm also considering using PostmarketOS as an alternative to LMDE but I have other projects I want to finish before I want to play around with different distributions.
I've always been drawn to minimalism. My happiest moments in life was backpacking with a 34 litre backpack for a number of years. The same concept can be applied to my Operating System. It's minimal and up to me to build/create the experience I want.
The experience I wanted was to learn Linux at it's core. There's nothing wrong with GNU but it felt like a layer of abstraction that made learning Linux seem too distant for my personal liking.
I started using Alpine Linux as my OS for a self hosted server on a Raspberry Pi. I chose Alpine because from a security point of view it made sense. There was less surface area to target or exploit. Whatever I added was intentional, giving me a better understanding of the system I was building and using.
Eventually I decided that I want my desktop and server environment to be the same so that I am consistent in what I am learning. I didn't want to switch between POSIX compliance/portability and GNU tools.
I don't think it's all that weird though. Alpine Linux provides a script that installs a variety of desktop environments. The wiki ([1][2]) also has information on how to set up all the extras like sound or graphics. Yes it's more involved but it's not impossible and can be rewarding.
I also found a fun (for me) hobby in writing POSIX portable scripts which is why I can spend so much time in Alpine. In the year I've been using Alpine, I've learned so much about Linux, how it works and how to work with it.
I’ve always been drawn to minimalism. My happiest moments in life was backpacking
Tried CRUX?
I also found a fun (for me) hobby in writing POSIX portable scripts which is why I can spend so much time in Alpine. In the year I’ve been using Alpine, I’ve learned so much about Linux, how it works and how to work with it.
Probably OpenBSD, and honestly I think it's closer to chad than schizo. It's work, it's complicated for the sake of being free, that's not really an insane take.
It's not just that you use Gentoo, and your schizophrenia has nothing to do with using Gentoo that you mean, is it? And if so, presumably, your chad'ness likewise, your own, not because of Gentoo, yes?
Why is Gentoo top and schizo? ... And why's artix, openbsd, and slackware in schizo too? ... TemplOS, obviously. But why did the others get misplaced there?
Makes me all the more want to install CRUX, ~ an idea I toyed with yesterday. Where would CRUX go on this tier list?
MacOS is worlds better than Windows, it's not even close.
Hell, Mac OS is even a certified UNIX operating system, something that even Linux (or GNU+Linux) can't say.
It's still a non-FOSS OS which is the real reason it sucks, but it's a lot better than a lot of people seem to think. Whereas Windows just plain sucks on a usability level too, not just the licensing.
I read a deep dive into the macos "certified UNIX" thing and it's a scam. I dont remember the details but the certification is obtained only through a set of testing exceptions. The macos used by people is not the macos that is Unix certified.
As a former macos user (2013-2024ish), macos has become IMO a very user hostile experience. It's not quite as bad as windows, but macos is not the "user friendly, it (mostly) just works and gets out of your way" os it used to be.
I'm full time Linux now and when I have to use macos or windows I cannot believe how user hostile they both are.
Linux is far from perfect, but at least I control my system/os.
Could be that they certified the Darwin kernel, but not the commercial offering?
I found the article I read about this, which was published a year ago on OSnews. Here's the link
Oh hey. You’re me! I’ve historically been a very loyal Mac user who played with Linux here and there, but I’ve been full time Linux for the past few two years.
Sibling from another mother! Tried it a few times over the years here and there just like you, until going full time.
Also got a full homelab going and have been learning python.
I haven't really used Mac OS since Mountain Lion, so that makes me sad to hear, but I'm not really surprised.
The UNIX certification is arbitrary and useless. Windows 11 could get it if they paid for it.
UNIX is irrelevant now anyway. Linux has taken its place, and every commercial UNIX (except for MacOS I guess) is at end of life or in maintenance mode now. They only still exist for a handful of applications that require decades of backwards compatibility.
PLEASE! PLEASE UNIVERSE! BRING BACK IRIX!
(and more than just nekoware... I mean a full, fully-FOSS, IRIX.)
*\dreamer*
I know this.
However good it is and however many certificates it has i personally agree with the dogshit classification. It won't install on any of about 8 computers in my house, including one I bought from apple. Literally unusable to me for the last 10ish years. Windows would probably install on one or two of them I think, so I'll give it a few hypothetical points for usability for that.
Kali Linux as Chad OS suggests this list is as much meme as truth so I wouldn’t worry about the rankings.
Both got the deal with the devil clauses in their end user agreements, right? That's bad enough it does not even matter who's better or worse after that. That's already bad enough to not be fit to use.
Well it was. It's got a major update recently which ruined everything. Still better than Windows tho xD
how is windows above macos lol
Because at least you can do gaming on Windows lol
MacOS has no reason to exist.
If you are ok running corporate software just use windows with its huge array of software and compatibility with pretty much everything.
If you want to be cool and different and have problems with software and hardware compatibility run Linux.
MacOS is the Porsche Panamera of operating systems. People just have it because it matches their 911/iThing
Apple’s chips on the other hand are very nice.
Arch should be in its own tier: BTW
Yeah: the self-own tier
Sorry, I declare NixOS being in its own tier, actually.
Is that GNU at the bottom? If so, bro, this dude don't get it.
Have you tried to actually use GNU/Hurd?
Yeah, that's why it belongs next to Arch
Arch is high skill floor high skill ceiling. Once you get good you can do really cool things with it. GNU/Herd is high skill floor low skill ceiling. If you're really good and practice really hard, eventually you'll be able to do things that could have been easier achieved with literally anything else.
Some people code recreationally in Malbolge and Befunge
yes in a vm, specificly Debian GNU/hurd, works suprisingly, main issues is lack of hardware support, for usage as a vm guest, I would say it is already better than half of the BSDs
Similar experience.
Except, props to the BSDs (especially OpenBSD), for being so much more coherent systems, as perhaps seen best (or at least easiest) in its man pages.
But then that is not the logo of Hurd, and Hurd is not the point of GNU
It's kinda part of the original point... to make a complete free software operating system...
Still, was nice that the Linux kernel came along to make things easier than the more advanced approach Hurd was taking.
Linux Libre + GNU, and got the point of GNU none the less. :)
I have.
It was fine.
This was way back around 2014 iirc.
Lol Gentoo over here in two categories
Scitzo-chad gentoo
I think the double input is because while ysing gentoo you are either a szchizo or a chad... there is no in between. Cant confirm, i'm apparently a chad... and a server according to the rest of the community
Get Kali out of the Chad tier, please.
If they are a professional using it for thier job... yes, IMO that is Chad tier.
I use macOS as a professional so it should he Chad tier as well? Bad argument.
Kali is a specialized toolset. Like a tricked out car. Pretty cool if you are a pro driver pushing the machine to its limits. But looks pathetic when driven by a high school guy trying to impress chicks
I see no reason to view the chart as anything other than rating them as daily drivers though.
Guys, MacOS isn’t everybody’s taste, especially now. But it does do what it’s trying to do. Windows isn’t succeeding at anything it’s trying to do.
I haven’t coded in years and wanted to pick up python finally. I’m using ChatGPT to demonstrate all the wrong answers to problems and I have to admit it’s a great learning tool for an unexpected reason.
It is productively wrong. All the time. But by screwing with it I can learn why things do or do not work. It does not give me an answer direct but instead guides me through all the possible ways to screw things up and I can learn from that.
I haven’t coded since C++ and Java in high school outside some arduino shit I did for a bit in between and chatGPT has been great and bringing those skills back from cold storage in my brain.
But as far as put in question, get response it’s obviously terrible.
This kind of demonstrates the bigger problem though. Business majors are making decisions and not engineers. And business majors are fucking stupid outside their element.
Missing Plan 9 from schizo tier.
That tier is my favourite, I just love Gentoo being in there. With Plan 9 it would be perfect!
I enjoy how Gentoo is listed in both chad and schizo tiers.
Is that X OSX? They renamed it back to MacOS.
On top of that, putting it below Windows? This is clearly someone who’s never used one or thinks gaming is the only thing you do on a computer. I’m all for Linux and use it in several places, but it has nothing on MacOS polish. Sure, it’s not perfect, but it’s a far cry from ChromeOS or Windows 11.
Literally why I prefer a Macbook for work and a Linux desktop for gaming. The former just works with a little bit of setup (brew), the latter allows for infinite tinkering and customizability.
While I loath windows, I would still put it above Mac if only for the ability to put windows on whatever you want. Even if Mac is more polished, the fact that it only works reasonably on vastly overpriced, mostly unrepairable hardware kills any appeal it would have. Add in apple's tendency to gimp devices as if a three year old machine is at deaths door, and I'll go to a customized windows os every time.
Also the gaming thing. It's not pinnacle, but it's also not trivial.
My MacBook Air is five years old still has 92% battery it’s not even close to deaths door for either me of Apple. My XPS 13 is five years old and has had its battery and thermal paste replaced.
I haven’t played a video game since Oregon Trail was new.
I used my 2011 iMac until two years ago and you can easily install Windows and Linux on a Mac so the whole gaming thing just isn't a valid complaint. It's not Apple that makes devs not port to MacOS as much (same with Linux). I have a laptop from 2015 that microshit decided can't run Windows 11, so they're even worse. You're objectively misinformed.
I'm highly critical of Apple, their philosophy for proprietary hardware with an aggressive stance against right to repair, and some particular design flaws on specific models of their machines that are unacceptable for the price point they sell their products at. Not to mention their ball coddling of the fascist fuck in the white house.
But MacOS is definitely superior to Windows, game developers not focusing on MacOS be damned. The bloat on Windows is beyond overkill, and MacOS's Unix based build for ultra specific hardware runs so much more efficiently. I used to play around with a hackintosh back when Mac OS X Lion was around.
Yup bought a MBP in my ignorant youth of 2008. It was beautiful sturdy HW at the time when most windows laptops were creaky plastic turds. After using Ubuntu for a few years Mac OS to me was like a nicer looking easier to use linux. However every 10-20 minutes the screen would flicker just once but it happened all consistently. Multiple report in forums about it and many cases opened but apple did nothing about it. Wouldn't even acknowledge it was a problem. Finally 5+ years later when most people were moving on they made a bios patch that acknowledged the issue and fixed it.
I've had my old macbook for twelve years and the whole time it held up punching well above its spec range and running heavy loads. I customized it deeply. Never had to reformat, which instead I had to do more or less once a year on my previous Windows computers. Whenever I asked it to jump it asked how high. I don't think longevity argument has merit, at least for computers.
To be honest my SO has an older MacBook and using that a couple of times convinced me to absolutely never buy one myself (regarding the os).
I had to google the most basic functions which you can achieve with a right click on other systems
It seems people don't like my dislike of MacOS lol
It's surely just you not understanding that the real problem is that you don't know how to use it while you do know how to use whatever you're comparing it to.
MacOS doesn't work exactly like Windows? The hell you say!
You know you've got a bad take when someone who doesn't even like Apple is making fun of you. Just saying.
You can still right click on Mac OS. Two finger press on the trackpad, control left click, or just right click on any normal mouse.
Yeah I know, but I couldn't figure out how to print stuff apart from pressing ctrl+p
File > print?
MacOS has a different methodology but the idea is most applications do things the exact same way every time, the menu at the top is standardized across software. Take some time to familiarize yourself with basic usage and then just fire up a new program and you’ll see what I mean. Keyboard shortcuts in apps are always the same for the same function. They’re easily accessible. Alt+f4 is fucking not, command+q is. Command+space to search for anything. That existed before MS implemented search in the taskbar. It’s got its ups and downs, but the OS is really tailored to make things accessible.
The reason it’s so wildly different from windows is partly due to a Microsoft going patent crazy on design and ui elements to try and monopolize home computing. Technically a “desktop” is their patent, which is why it’s called a workspace in every other OS. They also have been sued by Microsoft in the past over UX things.
imagine having to install a whole subsystem to even gain proper environment access and capabilities..
I don't care for WSL either.
Peak Script-Kiddie Shit.
/r/masterhacker laugh at you too much, op?
After I realized Ubuntu and Mint (the two distros I used the most) are both based on Debian, I switched to Debian with KDE Plasma. I don't know why I never tried it before and I'm never going back.
The reason you've never tried it before is probably that they only recently made an effort to make it palatable for the average nerd. It always had a bit of a reputation of being not easy to work with.
It's been fine for the average nerd for a couple decades. The installer has been mostly unchanged since 2005 or so, and I don't see much difference in an installed system either. I think you can live boot it ahead of installation now, maybe that's a big deal to some people?
The biggest deal was including non-free firmware on the install media.
In the past, if you used the official ISO and started the installation, it would format your disk and then inform you that it can't connect to your Wi-Fi to download additional software.
Then it would install the semi-complete bare-bones system that fit on one install disc and boot you into a desktop with no network configuration.
Ah, I forgot about that. Yes, that's a pretty big deal. Thanks for pointing that out. Debian have always been pretty purist about non-free software, to the detriment of new users.
To be fair, back then Ubuntu was basically just "Debian preconfigured for desktop with a check-box in the installer to include non-free stuff".
Debian today feels like old Ubuntu, and Ubuntu today feels like a distro made by a corporation desperately trying to enshittify Linux.
I'm glad they did, I like it since I was already used to the Debian way of doing things.
And an old reputation for hiding their ISO downloads buried deep in the website.
Yup that was me a few years ago. Its no longer the mid 2000s and stock debian can do pretty much anything right out the gate.
My typical Linux installation workflow:
Failing to have graphics drivers for my gaming PC with a GPU I bought the day it launched is one thing, but Debian also failed to have WiFi drivers for the cheap N100 NUCs I bought for my kids the other day -- with wifi hardware that'd been out for multiple years at this point -- and that's just ridiculous.
Kubuntu annoys me with Snaps, but it also Just Works in a way Debian unfortunately doesn't.
Maybe it is so high above every other category it didn't fit into the chart
That has to be it.
The super secret super chad level above.
I hope Windows 11 becomes microsofts death (and ofc the fact that their previous ceo liked to fuck children)
I think what will hurt them much more is the EU realizing the danger in dependence on American tech like Microsoft, and slowly replacing it with (open source) alternatives.
I hope so
Steve Ballmer is in the Epstein files?
Who was ceo back in 2000?
take fedora off cool and good
Oof, I really can't wait for the AI bubble to burst
I pray every evening before bedtime it is a bubble and the world economy finally will reset.
Or... was.. that the joke?
Nah, just Danish autocorrect..
Meh. Granite is open source, and as long as they don't try to force integration with a third party service I'm down for local LLM integration. It's not all chatbots, and LLMs happen to be honestly pretty good at searching through eg man pages and pulling out relevant bits.
Ah yes, the ol' solution looking for a problem routine
Thanks for the notice
Gentoo is both Chad and Schizo 🧐
they arent mutually exclusive
And Gentoo's not schizo...
Nor are the rest on that tier... except the one. We all know which one.
honestly based categorization
I don’t understand the hate for MacOS or Ubuntu frankly. Windows was fine until they stopped making “features” opt in. Fedora has been toying with adding AI, and my experiences with Arch have been subpar for my needs. I’m kinda at the point in my life where I don’t care as long as the OS works. They’re all so similar at the end of the day, they help me do the websites, work tools and vidya gaems.
Kali linux in Chad tier says it all
This is all over the place
openSUSE is the real chad tier though.
its nice on my laptop but I dont get Yast and installing software with zypper is kinda harder than it needs to. But I like the spirit.
YaST is sadly EOL, always liked it as the main control centre.
Yep.
I've yet to see suse without yast.
I don't even know what that means.
Suse, without yast!??? But.... Yast's what makes Suse so great!
Has something the same but better come along?
This is not a true chad speaking
Why is Artix in the schizo tier? It is a pretty awesome project.
Because it's Arch, except no
systemd, I guess.That'll do it. The work might be impressive, but why care about a project that has one purely spite-driven goal that makes no technical or social sense?
What a completely childish tagline. Even if there was any merit to all the systemd hate, calling it “not a real init system” is absurd.
They stopped supporting GNOME based desktops and treat that in the most “sour grapes” way imaginable …
I've seen systemd developers themselves say it's not an init system [it's more].
And it's more a matter of love, than "spite", to support init-freedom.
GNOME stopped supporting other init systems.
What is the 3rd one in "Dogshit"?
I assume it is GNU Hurd, their own kernel.
Can't be. One can use the Hurd, and it wont hurt [much]. Not like the corporate enshitified proprietary malware operating systems.
Looks like wojakified GNU, which says it's an OS on their website.
https://www.gnu.org/
But as I understand it, it's a SW collection that gets shipped with OSs but needs a kernel (usually Linux) to work as an OS.
Apple / macOS
True
I'd put Fedora at normal tbh
I mean, it's Torvalds' distro of choice iirc, which should count for something.
I, a longtime Fedora user, was not aware of this.
TY for the vindication
Could be better
Mint is for both noobs and the very experienced computer nerd, fight me!
Must be true.
No one's accepting your invite for a fight.
If Gentoo can be both Chad and Schizo, Slack should definitely be in the Chad category too.
Cool and good 😎
The distributions within the openSUSE project are, in my opinion, the most advanced and complete Linux distributions. They offer tools such as btrfs+snapper, openQA, Secure-boot, Firewall, Yast (Myrlyn+Agama), etc. as soon as the system is installed. No other Linux distribution offers all of this configured immediately after installing the system. In my opinion, the openSUSE project is at the highest level of Linux, offering solutions for most users, fixed distributions such as Leap, rolling distributions such as Tumbleweed, immutable distributions such as Kalpa, etc.
Preach!
Yeah.
I was not wrong for having suse be my os when I made the leap as a windows refugee in late 2003. It'd still be a great choice for windows refugees these days. Perhaps even the best choice.
You highlight why, very well.
OpenSUSE (and even the corporate version) deserve more praise. They seemed to get out-marketed by Ubuntu. But did not get beat for a better OS.
Hey...I'm normal!
Hi normal, I'm ... normal too.
how is artix schizo
I look at it more like Artix exists to solve the one "problem" with Arch. As much as Arch is generally about user choice, the one thing it decided to be opinionated about was the mandatory use of systemd. Artix tries to follow Arch as closely as possible while providing the alternate init systems. I think that's pretty cool, even if their hatred of systemd is childish.
It's sole reason to exist is “no systemd because we hate it” (their tagline is literally something childish about “real init systems”) and they're willing to drop GNOME and friends on a dime for that goal.
Choosing Artix is like choosing some fork that differentiates itself by refusing to package vim for some reason.
"Yeah, I'm a normie, at least as far as Linux enthusiasts are concerned."
Is that GNU/HURD in the last place?
Fedora is a chad, please
For real. It does everything I need it to.
I like how gentoo is in the schizo and chad tier and the logo is different in each
Charts without Solus is kinda like Maps without New Zealand.
But, Australia and new zealand is a myth, right? RIGHT?
I'm on Void right now, but am i still a chad if i switch to GNU Guix? I'm assuming yes because NixOS is also in the chad tier 🗿
More of a chad since NixOS has fascism problem
Yeah it's sad to see the state of the community. Personally it wasn't a reason for me to leave though. I used Void in the past and started liking runit, so now i like to go off the beaten path when it comes to init systems. It's not very feasible to use NixOS without systemd though, apart from a few small projects that aren't well tested and barely have documentation. Initially i wanted to stick to runit, but recently i finally decided to give guix and shepherd a go. So far i do actually like that shepherd is a little less minimal compared to runit, and actually has more features baked in, like support for one-shot services, timers, and being able to make services depend on each other. I finally installed it on bare metal yesterday, but i still need to work on my config a bit.
Yes, guix should be in there. Not sure if it was the crippled gnu at the bottom, but belongs in chad level
As a void enjoyer, i'm very happy it was included at all because it never seems to be. The fact it ranks so highly is the cherry on top!
Void's for sure one of the undersung heroes of the distrosphere.
It's my first go-to.
So very surprising, as it has been since it was still new, how well stocked it is. And so very reliable, to not have stupid package names. It's a little touch I very much appreciate.
Big love to voidlinux.
Respect, that it makes it to top tier.
OP even threw garuda in there. pretty cool
don't say manjaro could be better.
but i love it and use it daily
manjaro is terrible, but im glad youre having a good experience.
So i've since moved to Arch (btw), but what's wrong with Manjaro? I never had an issue with it, but I have seen quite a few people dunking on it... just without any explanation.
I don't think there's anything particularly wrong with it. In my opinion, the only downside to Manjaro is when you activate the aur repository, as doing so can cause dependency conflicts because this repository is designed for Arch and not for Manjaro and its version timeline.
Maybe this is why I've been having issues with several applications after some random update months ago.
It was fine for years, but lately I've been having several app open really slowly, mainly appimages.
Isn't the whole point of appimages to not use system dependencies and instead bring all their dependencies in one neat file?
That's why I haven't been able to identify what's wrong. The get stuck usually when opening or when trying to save/open a file. So I'm guessing there's some dependency that is not working correctly.
Otherwise they run fine when not interacting with anything. I don't really know what's happening and at this point I think it may be easier to just have a clean install and start over
https://github.com/arindas/manjarno
There are some very vocal people against it but I've never understood why. It makes no sense to put it in the same basket as Ubuntu.
Bu' Bubunbu's more reliable. Different reasons to dislike. Manjy may be manjy and janky, but bubunbu's got an insane corporation behind it doing all the pop enshitification things.
ChromeOS is definitely better than windows, you can run all your normal Linux things just with a slightly annoying desktop environment
What's the agreement say when installing / first starting a chromeos?
... If I recall correctly, it too has a deal with the devil clause, and demands you doxx yourself to the machine before you get to use it.
Better/worse, becomes meaningless when it's already beyond what's fit to use.
Hell yeah, schizo-chad!
where is tails?
Hidden
where is
So I guess I'm both "Chad" and "Schizo" at the same time.
And also "Cool And Good" on the side. (I run Fedora on a few machines. It's a relatively hassle-free no-nonsense distro that usually works for what i need.)
Cool and Good here (Fedora).
Tbh fedora feels too easy, but it is technically a corpo distro (IBM/RedHat) so its kinda in their own interest to be easy
I'm ok with almost everything there except Debian. And I'm not even running Debian these days.
There's nothing super or complicated about it that would make it Chad. It just works out of the box with non-free software.
If this was an S-Tier, I'd agree, but Chat tier connotates there's some reason normal users would not run it.
Their biggest failure is the failure to market.
Where chimera linux
I can live with normal
I did for about 4 years as a fresh refugee.
I couldn't keep living with normal, for suse.
I needed the schizo chad one.
What's the falcon one?
Garuda Linux ? (Gaming focused Arch derivative)
Ah ok thanks;
Kali linux?[Edit:, Oh, on the 2nd tier, cool and good, 2nd from the end. Yeah, other responder could be right...
]
Where is Haiku? And why is openSuse only normal?
If we filter for OSes that provide artifacts we can validate fully, the list gets smaller quickly.
Dragonflies aren't real
Finally, I'm normal. I'm so happy.
Is it still chad if I'm using Debian Unstable?
I love that TempleOS is on here
I know I could be better mom!
Does anyone else use Alpine Linux not in any containers?
I use it on my laptop with Sway and it's set up for my specific usage but it's where I spend 95% of my time. When I need to do something that just works without any hassle or thinking, I switch to old reliable Linux Mint DE.
I don't see Alpine in memes very often so I assume most people are sane and not trying to make a workstation out of Alpine.
I'm also considering using PostmarketOS as an alternative to LMDE but I have other projects I want to finish before I want to play around with different distributions.
I sometimes use Alpine. Not in containers. In Bedrock Linux strata.
Why do you do this? Is it faster/more responsive?
Seems weird, like using a Wind River Systems RTOS for desktop
I've always been drawn to minimalism. My happiest moments in life was backpacking with a 34 litre backpack for a number of years. The same concept can be applied to my Operating System. It's minimal and up to me to build/create the experience I want.
The experience I wanted was to learn Linux at it's core. There's nothing wrong with GNU but it felt like a layer of abstraction that made learning Linux seem too distant for my personal liking.
I started using Alpine Linux as my OS for a self hosted server on a Raspberry Pi. I chose Alpine because from a security point of view it made sense. There was less surface area to target or exploit. Whatever I added was intentional, giving me a better understanding of the system I was building and using.
Eventually I decided that I want my desktop and server environment to be the same so that I am consistent in what I am learning. I didn't want to switch between POSIX compliance/portability and GNU tools.
I don't think it's all that weird though. Alpine Linux provides a script that installs a variety of desktop environments. The wiki ([1][2]) also has information on how to set up all the extras like sound or graphics. Yes it's more involved but it's not impossible and can be rewarding.
I also found a fun (for me) hobby in writing POSIX portable scripts which is why I can spend so much time in Alpine. In the year I've been using Alpine, I've learned so much about Linux, how it works and how to work with it.
Tried CRUX?
Sounds like you're now primed for CRUX.
I don't think I've ever been called a cool and normal chad (or any of the three) before now.
Daily driver: Mint
Work PC: MX
Servers: debian
Would Tails go in cool and good or schizo?
me as chad can confirm
OpenSUSE and PopOS are deffo normal and its why i like them
i like my fedora bazz flavor tho
I'm thinking about switching back to Arch or maybe trying Debian; I'm on Fedora Silverblue at the moment.
As a Microslop and Apple hater, macOS is the only real operating system. The rest are tinker toys and work-in-progress.
I don't use macOS, but I wish I could.
Same.
I am both a chad and schizo.
Edit: And no, not because of Gentoo.
Probably OpenBSD, and honestly I think it's closer to chad than schizo. It's work, it's complicated for the sake of being free, that's not really an insane take.
OpenBSD
Alpine and Slack?
Arch and Artix?
Void and OpenBSD?
Oh tell us why...
It's not just that you use Gentoo, and your schizophrenia has nothing to do with using Gentoo that you mean, is it? And if so, presumably, your chad'ness likewise, your own, not because of Gentoo, yes?
I use Debian on my desktop PC and laptop and OpenBSD on the other laptop.
Wait, what?
Why is Gentoo top and schizo? ... And why's artix, openbsd, and slackware in schizo too? ... TemplOS, obviously. But why did the others get misplaced there?
Makes me all the more want to install CRUX, ~ an idea I toyed with yesterday. Where would CRUX go on this tier list?
::: spoiler PS, btw: Bedrock with Artix, Devuan, Gentoo & Void.
... My OS has split personality, hears many voices of different package managers.
EEeeeeeeheheheheheheheh. (* )
u( *)