Spyke
lemmy.world

"Let's run the country like a business!" Also, "let's cut our revenue by the most ever seen in history".

Our debt is going up! (surprised Pikachu face)

This is the liberals fault!

No business owner would voluntary cut their revenue. They're not businessmen, they're con artists turned tyrants.

127
lemmy.today

all he ever known is laundering russians for thier money, through his casinos, using investors money than bankrupting to avoid any lawsuits against himselfs, or drown the opposition(the sue-r in so much shit) they cant fight them anymore.

35
Ernestreply
lemmy.zip

(you're probably looking for "plaintiff")

4
Aulireply

Well he is running it like a business hrs got ng yo bankrupt the country.

5
lemmy.dbzer0.com

The secret is Trump will debase our currency to the point where a hotdog stand charges a million dollars for a can of soda. Then our debt will be relatively meaningless and easy to pay off.

44
DaddleDewreply
lemmy.world

I really hate that so much in US politics right now reminds me of 1930's Germany

38

it also originated in america too. before nazi was the kkk, and the nazis used our segregation laws to implement thier own.

9

all this really benefits putin, if usa is weakened economically, and constantly infighting, they wont have a chance of defending russians goals of expansions.

4

Then our debt will be relatively meaningless and easy to pay off.

Not that we would.

1

You did .... by leaning into it and letting it hit you square in the chest ... don't worry the internal bleeding is slow, you'll just slowly fall asleep and never wake up again.

6

Eh the media is already pretending Trump's Biggest Tax In History will be turned into a cash funnel to pay down the debt. When in reality not a single dollar will flow there. The media is back to being totally complicit.

4
lemmy.world

Seriously?

What idiot thought it would take a trillion years for the US to rack up $37 in debt?

65

Me too kolanaki, me too. I was so excited too, ah well, I'll be faster next time.

4

What happens when someone uses an entire country as collateral while stuffing their own pockets. Watch it happen, now!

54
lemmy.world

There's a world in which the US is carrying $37T, everyone lives in a spacious public condo, rides the UltraMax train around town to their 30 hour/week jobs or publicly financed doctor's appointments or state financed university classes or luxury public park and spa.

And I think that would be money well spent.

Shame we don't live in that country

40
lemmy.world

"Sure, basically all available economic data suggests that society would become far more productive and stable if the neediest people were given enough stability to develop into contributing members of society, but if I don't see people I don't like suffering terribly then I will feel there is no right and wrong in the world and I might as well go have sex with a child like we all secretly want to." - social conservatives (actually)

33
s
piefed.world

Solution: sacrifice the richest people until their wealth adds up to $37 trillion and maybe a few more rich people just for extra security

44

Just for fun I did the math on this and if the total net worth of the US is about $120 trillion, you'd have to erase anyone with more than about $12 million in assets to pay off the national debt.

5
sh.itjust.works

Trump will be the first president under which a sovereign default will occur

37
lemmynsfw.com

History repeats itself indeed, it's sounding more and more like the pre revolution France, a tone deaf dictator, cooking the books because the numbers weren't so good, the poor suffering more and more etc etc

22
ikiddreply
lemmy.world

At the rate the USD is declining against other currencies, I'd say it's going to happen before the midterm. His only hope for prolonging this is to replace Jerome Powell and bandaid it until it's someone else's problem. Or start a war.

7
lemmy.today

I think he will go all in on a DOGEcoin, get rid of Powell, start a war with Mexico, Greenland, and Canada simultaneously, pull out of NATO, ally with Russia without getting anything in return, Nuke California, and try to assassinate Zohran the Destroyer.

It will be a shitshow, and EVERYBODY is on the stage.

3
lemmy.ca

I'm waiting for the inevitable response executive order: "Nuh uh - Donald J Trump"

(And then all the Republicans clapped)

32

"Biiiiiiiiiiden's economy!?!"

"Hey... I found a dollar in the seat cushions!"

"TRUMP'S ECONOMY! TRUMP'S ECONOMYYY!!!"

31
lemmy.today

I hope foreign nations blacklist the American elite from migrating to their shores and owning anything in their territories. The wealthy are parasites that inevitably kill the host.

30

many of them are complicit in laundering money for them, swiss bank, malta?, destuche bank,,,etc.

3

I don’t know who was expecting it to take a trillion years, you can go 37$ in debt at the Taco Bell drive through

26
lemmy.zip

Who is upvoting this? Taco Bell is the only fast food place left where this isn't true.

1

Yeah. I’m not saying they’re good prices. It is definitely why one should skip and just go to a sit down restaurant OR just cook your own stuff.

1
lemmy.ca

So what happens when the US defaults? Just asking for those that are curious to see where this slowmotion trainwreck is heading

23

There will be no default. However, there will be massive inflation and loss of the dollar as the world's reserve currency.

3
lemmy.world

They aren't actually borrowing from anybody, the debt is to themselves. It basically just means the US Federal Government spends more than it collects every year since POTUS Clinton was in charge.

They do set an upper limit to the debt / annual deficit and if they fail to resolve it by raising the limit then the federal government goes into shutdown: no new laws passed, no federal employees get paid, etc. But they pretty much always raise the limit. The last time the limit was raised it was a bipartisan push to keep the government running, during which the DNC members who joined with the Republicans received a lot of criticism for doing what the Republicans wanted, but TBH I don't really think things would have been much better off if the government had shut down again.

Next time, though, it's become clear that the Senate will keep stripping rights and not allow a single bit of progress to be made no matter how far into fascism this nation falls, so definitely should shut down.

8
pulsewidthreply
lemmy.world

This is a vast misrepresentation. National debt is literally bank loans the government has taken out and promissory notes like Treasury bonds. They owe investors, banks, and individuals money - only 1/5th of the national debt is held by intergovernment bodies (meaning money the government has loaned itself and 'owes themselves'). 80%+ of the debt is owed to non-internal groups. Even the self-owed debt must be repaid, or the government would be defaulting on a loan from one department to pay the other - robbing Peter to pay Paul.

https://www.marketplace.org/story/2023/05/26/who-does-the-u-s-owe-31-4-trillion

7
lemmy.world

Yes but the banks are a part of the US Financial System and Governance. For better or worse, the Federal Reserve System is tiered in a way that each private bank adheres to their regional reserve bank, of which there are 12 total, which adheres to the US federal reserve board. The private banks can also elect representatives to the board of their own regional reserve bank, while the federal reserve board members are appointed by presidents.

That's not even mentioning the FOMC.

But the debt is still of the USA to the USA at the end of the day. If third parties like China or Russia buy bonds from those of the USA who hold the value in the form of promissory then that's fine but they have no power to enforce a payout in case of a "default". The notes just lose a little value, to the holder's detriment.

0
pulsewidthreply
lemmy.world

Your whole first paragraph is irrelevant. The banks that the US owes are part of the US banking system. Ok so?

This is another misrepresentation. You think it's no big deal if treasury bills "lose a little value"?

If treasury bills lose value, that will begin a mass sell-off, which will cause the US dollar value to plummet. If there was a default, the US would lose its credit rating and not be able to get future loans. That would grind your government and industries to a halt.

Back on the initial point, foreign counties currently own almost a third of the US national debt, it is not "debt of the USA to the USA" - many of the additonal institutions (beyond the 1/3rd) that hold the debt (banks and investment groups) are also either foreign or international and not headquartered in the US.

In summary, the national debt is loans owed to many groups, a very large portion of which are foreign to the US. "They aren't actually borrowing from anybody" is wildly inaccurate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_of_the_United_States#Holders_of_debt

2
lemmy.world

Lmfao yeah ok pal, the banks are going to start denying the federal government loans. Yeah right. I bet the Fed won't even use their authority to set bank interest rates as a response, will they? Or maybe all the banks will just stop giving out all loans forever? What a crock of shit.

-1
pulsewidthreply
lemmy.world

How on earth would the federal reserve adjusting interest rates improve the US's situation if they were defaulting on loans? For starters, big loans like the ones the govt borrow are generally are not variable interest, they're fixed rate. Second treasury bills have guaranteed maturity rates based on their yield, that's why they're generally considered a safe investment - again, the fed adjusting rates would do what? Zip. Except maybe make groups panic sell their bonds out of increased concerns of US stability.

The US was already downgraded by all the major credit rating firms, in 2011 and the most recent downgrade was May this year - they mostly came on the heels of debt ceiling raises by congress. Its not likely to happen anytime soon, but yes - if the US' credit rating dips further, bankers and investors will not want to buy US treasury bonds. This has already affected the interest rate the US govt must pay on loans (increased them). Eventually if it gets low enough, the government will not be able to secure loans because the banks will consider them too risky, that's how the banking system works. Somehow you seem to think the US govt runs the banks, or owns them? It don't. It must pay back every cent it borrows, or the financial system of the US will circle the drain - just ask Greece, or Spain.. Or.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_debt_crises

0
nelly_manreply
lemmy.world

They mention Clinton because when he left office, the federal government was running at a surplus and was paying down the national debt. However, that changed after Bush came to office and passed tax cuts before starting wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

16

Republicans: let's increase spending like crazy while giving all the rich discounts, plummeting our income. In the meantime we just pretend that we're spending less than Democrats

What could possibly go wrong?

2

I never mentioned fault I just said Clinton was the last POTUS to create surplus. I blame Reagan for cutting taxes.

3

think 2008 crisis, but worst. because everything was getting cut. when obama came in the military was downsizing as well, until TRUMP came into power for the first time.

7
lemmy.world

I still waiting for the damn “trickle down economics“ that Reagan PROMISED!

21

It was ruled in court to be illegal in 1919 in the Dodge vs Ford lawsuit.

At the time, Ford himself wanted to: "My ambition is to employ still more men, to spread the benefits of this industrial system to the greatest possible number, to help them build up their lives and their homes. To do this we are putting the greatest share of our profits back in the business."

But shareholders (both Dodge brothers of the Dodge car company) sued against this and in the end the judge declared that: "A business corporation is organized and carried on primarily for the profit of the stockholders. The powers of the directors are to be employed for that end. The discretion of directors is to be exercised in the choice of means to attain that end and does not extend to a change in the end itself, to the reduction of profits or to the nondistribution of profits among stockholders in order to devote them to other purposes."

Basically, if you attempted trickle down economics, you'd be "stealing" from the shareholders. Extra money is to be given to shareholders as dividends, not for boosting the pay of your employees if it doesn't involve adding more profits to the bottom line.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_v._Ford_Motor_Co.

14
sh.itjust.works

If America paid attention to its own history Reagan would be remembered as the worst president

10

Yes, no argument here. I know Reagan holds a lot of responsibility for the prep, but i think trump is still worse

3
lemmy.world

That's what a conman as leader of your country will get you. Fired half the government workforce, still spent more money than the last guy and he's only been in office for 6 months. It only goes down from here folks, hope you enjoyed the ride. This is your last stop.

21
lemmy.today

Does anyone have data about how much additional debt has been piled since Trump started second term?

18
yeehawreply
lemmy.ca

But how could that be possible? He's a master businessman!

9
lemmy.ml

Those are just fake numbers. USA is not in debt, in fact it has a surplus of 9000 quintilions. Trump probably.

17

It's OK. I heard after the prescription price reduction, he's looking to lower the national debt by at least 1500% also.

5

Well, things like that happen when you throw money at billionaires instead of collecting taxes from them.

17
pawb.social

literally meaningless to me. i couldn’t care less. money is fake and nobody is ever going to do shit about the debt. who? tell me who is going to do what and without any devastating worldwide consequence?

we can owe $6 quintillion and it won’t mean shit we will print and print and borrow and borrow and so will every other country.

12
IninewCrowreply
lemmy.ca

It's a modern day religion .... it's a faith based system

It works and functions and is all powerful because enough people believe in it and hold all their faith in it ... it's faith and belief that make it work

But it's also the Achilles heel of the whole system ..... if enough people in the whole system stop believing in it ... it all collapses in on itself and it is destroyed and evaporates instantly.

21
otacon239reply
lemmy.world

This analogy is very apt. I stopped giving money (and wealth in general) power over my emotional state. I only care about making rent and many of my recent luxuries are buying independent art like games and music as well as local shops.

Turns out, if you stop wanting all the time, you also stop consuming.

14

I had to consciously do this as well. It's one of those journeys that makes me want to annoy people by talking in circular little one-liners like a monk or Yoda. It also revealed to me just how much my more conservative family members obsess over the money or the stuff that other people have.

It also turns out, similar to what you said, is that the way to get enough "stuff" in your life is not to acquire all the stuff. That will never work. The way to get enough stuff in your life is to simply stop caring about getting more stuff.

And make no mistake, I DO like my stuff! I have actually spent a considerable amount of money on material possessions in the past month. I have also been daydreaming about what kind of car I'll get next. (disclaimer for my c/fuckcars friends, I live in low density suburban USA bordering rural areas; I'm gonna have a car forever)

But, they aren't mindless consumption. The purchases are to support my hobbies that make my life/brain/health better. I have been building my collection of high quality tools because one major hobby of mine that required some construction has inspired an offshoot hobby of woodworking. The dopamine hit from buying something new and shiny is still there, but with my learning and planning coupled with the positive effect of having something to look forward to, not to mention it gets me outside and moving heavy stuff around, I have had no regrets and am getting the desired benefit.

I mentioned the car because, like the tools, it is a catalyst to enhance something I enjoy. It is not a status symbol or collectible. In my case, I have always enjoyed the dynamics of driving and I had manual transmissions in my first three cars which I do not have now. And my drive to work is a couple miles of twisty semi-rural road. I think I want a roadster.

1

… it’s faith and belief that make it work

But it’s also the Achilles heel of the whole system … if enough people in the whole system stop believing in it … it all collapses in on itself and it is destroyed and evaporates instantly.

Just like the US Constitution.

5

Having large debt matters for how expensive access to cash is. No matter how "fake" it is, the financial system puts a premium on how long it takes to get their lent money back. The longer it's stuck, the worse the reputation of getting it back, or simply the higher the demand — the higher the premium.

And as you need cash to make payments for goods and services (as opposed to tax rebates) that has the effect that US tax dollars and investments have lower rate of return as sufficient cash gets more expensive.

Another part is that the debt will be taken out in some form, e.g. foreign currency, making that currency more available for cash transactions (while at the same time making yours' less available due to being locked into what you needed it for). This shifts trade away from USD, which makes it much harder to influence/control what it's used for, how much it's worth, and harder to make people care how much of it there is.

As the world trades in something besides USD and/or avoids investing in the US due to high costs/volatility, the US gets less relevant/influential in global policy, diplomacy, business, investments and even domestic policy.

14
frongtreply
lemmy.zip

It's possible that other countries might start calling us on the debt, if we borrow faster than we lend, or faster than inflation.

Countries don't have credit ratings in the same way Americans do, but they still have ratings on their bonds. If those ratings get downgraded, people stop lending us money, and then everything crashes and burns.

10

The same process still applies, though. Domestic lenders can also drive the rates up by refusing to lend.

2

i mean "it's possible" and likely are two separate things. we all owe each other money. who is collecting from whom that doesn't owe some other nation?

1
nexguyreply
lemmy.world

The debt didn't reach $37 just a trillion years early?

3

I initially parsed it as "the US reached 37 billion years before..." like it was a sci-fi apocalyptic piece set in the far future

2

Who could've seen it coming?!

/s juuuust in case some dummy out there doesn't get it

3

Buy gold, the U.S. dollar isn't going to be worth the paper it's printed on in a few years time.

8

Defense budget and ICE budgets must go up!

The defense budget is all contractors too. The amount spent on personnel is fucking miniscule.

1

Im starting to suspect they want the number high. Like when I hear ppl say it good to have some debt for your credit score.

4

When a dem is in power, the deficit is the most important topic. When a repub is in power, anything goes.

2