I haven't read the new TOS but if this review is correct it looks like a GDPR nightmare for them. Good luck to them explaining why they need to collect all that personal data.
I just read the german version and compared them a little. (https://www.take2games.com/privacy/de/) Its about the same. But ist also reads fairly normal like any other privacy policy. I also think its in line with EU law. The collected data always relates to whatever TakeTwo service you use and whatever data you provide voluntarily or technically by using it. Thats fine by EU law.
Hm... Ok. Thats crazy. Someone wants to create a new branch of income it seems.
Thats a fucking shame. Now I need to reconsider my plans to buy Borderlands4.
But how will they do it? Which information is gathered from which source?
Most of my accounts only hold as little informations as possible. Also my Os knows nothing about me. My MS account neither.
On the other hand my steam 2FA need some mobile information.
Checkout Jump Ship? It's some weird borderlands, Star citizen, (insert other generic shooter) type game. Pretty neat, was recommended to me by a shooter fanatic friend of mine. I trust his shooting game opinion
oh cool, I can see that it's similar Borderlands by the screenshots, and I can see that it's like Star Citizen because it's not actually released yet and they're taking money for early access.
Unless you use Linux, your OS knows a ton about you. On top of that, with root access to your computer they can do whatever they want and if their system gets hacked you become a member of a bot farm or crypto mine.
Well I use Linux, but not on my gaming pc. I would switch to it because its all amd, but I don't want to because it lacks the driver suite for my gpu (adrenaline) and I don't want to install a bunch of small applications to gain a small fraction of options it offers.
It's a pitty. Because I realy want to ditch windows since its newest iteration.
Were all Take Two games automatically updated in secret and now hijack your machine with root access to spy on everything you do? ❌
Do Take Two games contain code to report telemetry and user information(including application/system activity) to a home server? ✅
Is this EULA change extraordinary and particularly egregious in comparison to others that most people have probably already agreed to? ❌(IMO)
Are people riled up because e a YouTube video went a little viral and now they’re all playing telephone to the point where it’s now gotten to the point of random dumdums are review booming a 13 year old game claiming it’s turned into literal spyware? ✅(again, IMO)
Should you be surprised by any of this if you’ve been even remotely paying attention for any period of the last 30-40 years? ❌
Do we need more than just angry idiots in the battle against corpatocracy? ✅
We should be done coddling the late comers at this point. Yes welcome them and accept them, but at a certain point your level of ignorance became a detriment to your community and you should be made aware of that fact.
Would it shock you to know that ALL of these are in the Steam terms of service also?
The only really sus one to me is the forced arbitration clause, and Steam also had that til they were pressured to remove it by multiple legal cases, including a class action brought to them by Steam users just last September. It is only sus because it's outdated - companies are generally removing them now rather than adding them.
https://www.legal.io/articles/5540864/Valve-Removes-Mandatory-Arbitration-from-Steam-Subscriber-Agreement
RE: remaining top 5 bullet points, 3 of the remaining 4 bullet points are uncontroversial bullet points about anticheat. The fourth is banning modding, which is also just a heavy handed anticheat attempt, and not uncommon for online games to add to their ToS to allow banning at their discretion. Either way its clumsy at the least as some mods can be harmless eg HUD mods for colourblind people and deserves some negativity - but not to this level, given everything else is just so boilerplate.
Collected data types: these are all for if you buy stuff with a credit card / paypal / etc off 2k/parent company Take 2. Remember, they sell games with in-game purchases. They also have an app which has location permissions option which is what the precise location is about.
So yes - again, as OP said, this is nothing controversial if you have paid attention to ToS meaning and content over the past 20 years.
Aside from the forced arbitration crap - which Steam, Microsoft, Amazon, Lyft, Uber, Google, AT&T - and hundreds of other major companies all snuck into their ToS over the years, and many have now been legally pressured to remove by consumer rights group. That is stupid because it shows their legal team is behind the times, companies are mostly removing their forced arbitration clauses nowadays because it has been the cause of many lost class actions.
A bit more than what, not really sure what your point here is? All of those bullet points are similar if not identical to terms in other EULAs half the people in this thread have already clicked thru.
I’ll say it again, if you think this is anything new you haven’t been paying attention. I’m all for calling this fuckery out and pushing for something better. But like where yall been?
Still no actual answers from anyone on how this is ‘more’ than what I described in my op. Sure it’s a more detailed list, but it’s really not the “gotcha” everyone seems to think it is. That is, if youve been paying attention.
What point are you trying to make? You say you're "all for calling this kind of fuckery out" but then you're criticizing people for calling it out? And who cares what other EULAs might say? The point is that the license agreement for this game and others owned by this company didn't say this shit before, and now they do. The company is actively making their user agreement more hostile to the users which is what people are pissed about.
If you look at Valve's TOS or any other game developer who has games with an online component, you will see the exact same language regarding data collection. The language being added is to comply with laws, like the GDPR, which requires specific language indicating what data is collected and how it is used.
The data that is being collected is the same as it was 10 years ago. There's nothing new here, just a YT video that got a lot of views and social media being full of people who don't fact check anything.
That it takes more critical thinking to accomplish the organized action needed for real change than leaving a bunch of negative reviews.
I never once said ‘other company’s do it so just deal with it.’ Fuckawhataboutism. I said “if you think this is new, you haven’t been paying attention.” What I shouldn’t have left unsaid was ‘the review is a nice start and show of intention. but we need a lot more dedicated, well organized action, to actually accomplish any change.’
But people read into things what they want to hear.
Let's ride the wave. Turn this into a huge controversy known industry-wide. Then, next game that comes out with EULA like this, we say "THIS GAME HAS A BORDERLANDS-STYLE EULA". Pretend it's new to exploit the shock value and get the gamers riled up. Then, the industry gets better.
Tell the frog that the pot wasn't always this hot.
I see this kind of comment before and I will never understand it - "other companies do it so just bend over and let us do it to you too!"
People say this all the time about Denuvo too: "Other games already have Denuvo, why are you crying about it here when you're playing other games?"
And see, that's the problem - we aren't playing those other Denuvo games. And same thing applies here, guess what, a lot of us aren't buying games from gross companies like EA with these shit terms. So when a company we are doing business with suddenly changes their terms to be shit, that's a valid complaint. Some of us have already been boycotting bad business practices in the industry, so the idea of company changing terms towards the boycott after we've already invested in the game feels like a betrayal because it is.
So maybe stop focusing on what you assume the rest of audience is doing and instead go back to focusing on what the people at the goddamn podium are trying to pull?
Why does everyone insist on adding the ‘so just bend over and take’ part whenever someone points out another source of wrongdoing? Like what do yall always take it to mean that the speaker is implying a whataboutism argument? And not maybe as ‘oh shit this has been going on longer than just this maybe we should learn about that too and we might figure out why it hasn’t been stopped yet.’
If "everyone" keeps reading a sentiment you did not intend out of your message, perhaps it is time to consider that you are doing a poor job of communicating your point.
Or you're being disingenuous and just don't like being calling on your hissy fit.
Some people will always find an excuse to change nothing.
It doesn't matter how many similar EULA's people have already accepted. The best moment to not eat it anymore would have been the first time it happened, the second best time is right now.
Also, retroactively amending an EULA is a different quality, since people have already paid for the game and would be locked out after the fact if they didn't accept.
I’m sad you read this as an admission of defeat and an attempt to deter others from fighting. Was hoping for more of a ‘you’re late, you have a bunch of homework to catch up on’ vibe but I’m not great at communicating all the time.
It seems like you're giving of a "victim" vibe with this by stating you wished for only a particular type of "positive response" when you've posted a misleading comment and doubled-down with "EULAs half the people in this thread have already clicked thru" which you have no way of knowing.
Were all Take Two games automatically updated in secret and now hijack your machine with root access to spy on everything you do? ❌
10.2. Updates, Modifications, and Sunset. We may provide patches, updates, or upgrades to the Services, Virtual Items, Content, or your Account that may be required for you to continue using the Services, including automatic or “in the background” updates without notice to you.
"Was hoping for more of a ‘you’re late, you have a bunch of homework to catch up on’" You're expecting others to hold your hand and inform you of every event or action taken by every company. I guess I'll do my part since I have been trying to let other people know for a while now,
Steam Discussion deleted after questioning the "EULA" of Stormgate, another post by me after I tried to inform others and was suppressed, meaning the reviews is the only course of action that most have at their disposal. Even posting on their official subreddit did no good with the exact same type of response you've presented here,
They didn't collect such information (they technically couldn't), they are giving examples of such types of personally identifiable information.
Yeah, it's excessive, they don't need half of this. However, writing it this way makes it near impossible for them to screw up by accident. If you play games, you probably agreed to a handful of ELUA's like that by now.
This keeps getting brought up in every controversial game these days and the answer is always the same: They aren't.
Most of this is not out of the ordinary.
Imagine thinking all of this information about you isn't already owned by several corporations lol.
Some of these stuffs are required in X countries not yours, stop thinking the entire world is all about you buddy.
You've officially become part of the problem and an ally to the very same reason why we can't "accomplish the organized action needed for real change (than leaving a bunch of negative reviews.)"
I get that and agree, this is just a crappy and kinda dumb stick to be wasting the energy on because it makes the side opposing the injustice look like petulant children instead of enabling effective action.
Not a lot. Even when it isn't a flatpak windows software running on linux won't be able to interact with the system anywhere near as deeply as on windows.
So…if Steam is running in a Flatpak, and Borderlands is launched from Steam, how much can they even see…really?
Without using exploits to escape the container, not much. A very empty Windows environment with a single game installed, your network interfaces and any directories that the Flatpak has access to (usually just the SteamLibrary directories).
The TOS (https://www.take2games.com/legal/en-US/) changes are mostly related to data that they collect via their interfacing with Steam and through their website. This idea that they're requiring you to agree to a root level access or installing a spyware rootkit is just nonsense.
How locked down a flatpak is depends entirely on the developer and what permissions they request. By default, they can't really see much. For example, they can't even see the processes running on your host or your user and system files.
Flatpak does not do anything about network access though, it can only do no access or full access, no in between. The data they can collect on Linux in a Flatpak is very limited but it does not prevent them from calling home.
A youtuber named Hellfire has been on a spree, basically discovering how fucked up EULAs have been in games for the past 20ish years... well this is all brand new news to him and and his Zoomer / Gen A followers.
There is, as of right now, literally zero evidence that Borderlands 2 has been updated with a rootkit, with kernel level anti cheat, anything like that.
The last update to its game files was 2 years ago.
This is almost certainly them updating the EULA everywhere, the precise timing of this being for some specific arcane legal and business reasons... TakeTwo runs a whole bunch more games than juat Borderlands... namely GTA V...
...
Is this EULA bad? Yes.
Is it much worse than it was before, or what other large gaming companies EULAs have, and have had for... a decade+?
Maybe by a bit, but not really, no.
...
Is Randy Pitchford a dumb idiot asshole?
Oh absolutely yes, but that shouldn't give people the liscense to make completely unevidenced claims about other things.
...
The game does not have a kernel level AC or some kind of rootkit DRM, as many, many people are currently saying it does.
I guess gamer attention span can really hold onto a few keywords and phrases at a time.
... I say this all as person who is vehemently against kernel level AC, who has been pointing out for 4 years, that almost all existing anti cheat systems currently have at least one game that implements their AC, on linux, without using kernel level anything.... it is entirely possible to do AC without kernel level shit, even on linux, and has been for at least 4 years. EAC and BattleEye have supported linux for 4 years, but nearly no game that uses them has actually used this feature/available and offered support.
I am glad that this level of hate is finally being directed at shitty EULAs, but lets at least get our facts straight, or actually provide some hitherto unseen evidence that Borderlands has had some kind of sleeper malware in it for at least the past two years, just waiting to be activated by a TOS update to every single Take Two game.
I just don't understand anticheat or copy protection on PvE games. I can understand it if you don't want to play against a cheater, but this is a cooperative shooter.
IIRC Borderlands 3 scales the value of loot to the game's difficulty setting, with some mechanics aimed at encouraging players to join online coops at high difficulties in order to earn more valuable loot. I imagine cheats undermine that intent, and I also imagine borderlands 4 might be aiming at a pay to play scheme.
I'm guessing this EULA is being used for all their IP with the intent of taking advantage of it in the future.
There is nuance here. Not every crack is malicious but you have to assume they all are because some of them are. Trusting a source is irrelevant. Many security products will falsely tag cracked software as dangerous just because it’s cracked, not because it found a specific bit of nasty code, and this feeds the idea that you can’t believe when people tell you cracked software is unsafe. But there are many truly bad cracks out there. When in doubt, don’t trust it.
This is true. Even projects with good reputations get caught up in shit like the XZ back door in Linux.
If you haven’t read up on that fiasco, you really should look into it. It got way too far before being caught all because people suck and ruin things for others.
it's been a while since I've used windows, but I remember having to give administrator privileges to software installers, whether they are from legitimate vendors or from ripping groups with modified code
Some software installers still ask if I want to install for all users, which require elevated permissions, or only for me, which don't. In that last option it will not prompt for elevated permissions as it will use one of my user's folders which I have already all permissions for, obviously.
It's a security measure that's half assed. People are so used to it they just click allow but don't actually look at the prompt anymore. Like I see a lot of people do with cookies on websites.
Thats a windows thing so it can put files in “protected” folders like program files
The unfortunate thing about the UAC prompt is that it gives the software permission to put files in protected folders, but it also gives the software root permission so it can do literally anything else without prompting the user. Except, I believe, if it tries to install unsigned kernel drivers, then the user has to click a new prompt... but you can completely compromise a machine with the permissions that users routinely give to executables that they download from the Internet.
A game with a malicious crack that can escape a VM running on Windows and get to the main OS?
Sure, possible, but not by any means common.
A game with a malicious crack made for Windows that can... do anything nefarious when you're running it on linux via WINE and Proton?
... Theoretically possible, but I've never heard of this actually occuring.
The same, but also inside another linux OS inside of a Bottle or Distrobox... or full VM... all running on a linux system that is significantly atomized with a read only core-os?
... At that point I am quite doubtful anyone is bothering to make a malicious crack that capable... when 99% of the existing game trainers and hacks that you can find or buy online... only work on Windows.
The crowd of people making game exploits and cheat engines... and the crowd of people making malicious game cracks.... that venn diagram is almost a circle... and 99% of these people do not bother to 'support' linux, in anyway, at all, with anything they do.
Is using any random cracked software ever 100% safe? No.
But neither is say, using a Windows system, with 0 cracks or hacks... but with a MSFT trusted vendor's 3rd party anti malware software... where said trusted vendor is allowed to push an unverified update to their kernel level anti-malware system... that is actually malformed, and then knocks out about 1/4 of every enterprise Windows PCs on Earth for 2 weeks.
I apparently love downvotes but here goes: All the Borderlands games (annoying childish cell-shaded skinner-box) and everything Gearbox is and has ever created it utter shit. The CEO is a garbage person, and thier dealings with Epic is Capitalist-Oink-Piggy shite! ""FUCK YOU 2K & GEARBOX, AND FUCK YOU BORDERLANDS!"
Got to argue, I'm a 39 year old gamer, started with PCs back in 90s.
The games are casual fun, they work great as co-op shooters. Story is what it is, but the games themselves are lighthearted and just pure entertaining fun.
The first felt really fresh at the time. FPS was dominated by various milsim shooters and Halo, and the irreverence and clever cell shading style worked well.
Two dialed things up in scope and scale and added some nice environmental variety.
But the rest? The presequel? The 3rd? I just couldn’t. It was more of the same, tired, repetitive, the jokes started really scraping the bottom of the barrel. I had fun early on, but I’m out.
I liked 1 and 2. Got bored for the prequel and 3 early on.
Tiny Tinas I did play and really enjoyed that game. It felt like a reasonable advancement over BL 1 and 2. It felt like they stagnated for a bit and raised the bar slightly with Tinas.
I really wanted an MMO style Borderlands with 4, and I wouldn't value 4 any higher than Tinas launch price. But I am interested in what the game has to offer.
If you liked only the first two, def give Tina's a try, if it has a good sale.
I loved the gameplay of pre sequel. But the writing for that was constantly throwing me for a loop on how any of it was greenlit. I didn't mind the writing in 1 and 2, I got a few chuckles out of that. Pre sequel just made me groan, moan and yawn.
Yes, but it should still be illegal for a company to do this. Don't let them blame the users for accepting this bullshit. As Louis Rossmann would say, they have the mentality of a rapist.
The problem is the just astoundingly terrible writing, immensely insufferable characters, and astonishingly brain dead gameplay.
Why have weapon balance ortactically interesting scenarios or any real sense of progression in gameplay when we can just procedurally generate guns and do everything we can to make everything into roughly the same level of bullet sponge with auto levelling?
They are the lowest common denominator of co-op shooter games, made for people who enjoy bombastic sensory overload and near zero prefrontal cortex brain activity while gaming.
Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Owns Rockstar Games, Zynga and 2K. So if that's all their games, it includes at least these: Bioshock series, Borderlands series, Civilization series, Grand Theft Auto series, Mafia series, Max Payne series, NBA 2K series, PGA Tour 2K series, Red Dead series, WWE 2K series and XCOM series.
I sometimes wonder what will happen when EAC, that has root access to millions of PCs, gets compromised or has grunty employee and pushes malicious update
Then the death squads will come in, and they'll ask 'how could this possibly happen!?', getting fucking pissed or saying "we couldn't have known!" when you answer, and offer an 'i fucking told you so' in line for the camps.
You're there too, because they tagged you in everything.
Holy fuck I did not know about Overwolf. That's the last time I download something from my, apparently, dipshit friend (no, this is not the only stupid thing he's done).
I think it's kind of ironic you call your friend apparently a dipshit for not knowing something you also didn't know... pot calling the kettle black & all.
I checked the Steam depots. It seems the game files haven’t been updated since 2022. All that seems to have changed is some license agreement in February. Seems to be a thing across take two games, and not specific to borderlands 2.
Basically nothing has changed in real terms for this game. Maybe borderlands 4 might have draconian DRM, who knows.
He said they added a kernel level anticheat in the TOS which is true. But they seem to have not included it in the game yet. But they tell that by possedong the game you allow them to.
Edit : typo but can't correct "possedong" now
That's a typo from an i to an o, commenter probably meant possessing but made a mistake and tried to type posseding, I suspect their native language is french given their username and "to possess" in french is "posséder".
Really ? I though, since you used a though process used in osint.
Osint is open sources intelligences, it is looking for data about something/someone in data available for all
So, to be clear:
There is nothing in the TOS that requires you to submit to a rootkit and there is no spyware that has been added. The comment in the OP is simply wrong.
He said it, root access level in the TOS of BorderLand. Not that a root kit is included, but that they allowed them self to inclid it whenever they can. That not misinformation...
There is nothing in the TOS that requires you to submit to a rootkit and there is no spyware that has been added. The comment in the OP is simply wrong.
This is what happens when you simply read social media and repeat what you've heard without checking to see if you're spreading misinformation.
We may provide patches, updates, or upgrades to the Services, Virtual Items, Content, or your Account that may be required for you to continue using the Services, including automatic or “in the background” updates without notice to you.
I hope the people who upvoted your misinformation are able to see this, please think of your actions and conduct before posting multiple comments defending a company if you're worried about misinformation.
That... doesn't actually rebut anything FauxLiving said. That they may use anti-cheat, and that they may have automatic updates, aren't the claims in question here.
Sincerely thank you for commenting. I was completely dumbfounded with @[email protected]'s statement and wasn't sure if I wanted to waste my time with a response if it was just trolling.
It's because Take Two came out with a fuck-you-in-the-ass EULA for all their games. I actually look forward to boycotting someone, there's too much free and discounted shit everywhere
I only play AAA games on GeForce Now (cloud). If the game can't run on my Linux system or on the cloud, I ain't touching it. Also, there are so many wonderful games that do not require a colonoscopy into your personal data to be played.
Here is excerpt from the tos, shared by user in steam reviews of the game.
::: spoiler important Info in Terms of Service:
• Mods are a bannable offense
• Display of Cheats/Exploits is bannable
• Forced arbitration clause and a waiver of class action and jury trial rights for all users residing in the United States and any other territory other than Australia, Switzerland, The United Kingdom, or The Territories of The European Economic Area
• You can be banned for using a VPN while connecting to online servers
• Cannot access game content on a Virtual PC
Collected Data Types:
• Identifiers / Contact Information: Name, user name, gamertag, postal and email address, phone number, unique IDs, mobile device ID, platform ID, gaming service ID, advertising ID (IDFA, Android ID) and IP address
• Protected Characteristics: Age and gender
• Commercial Information: Purchase and usage history and preferences, including gameplay information
• Billing Information: Payment information (credit / debit card information) and shipping address
• Internet / Electronic Activity: Web / app browsing and gameplay information related to the Services; information about your online interaction(s) with the Services or our advertising; and details about the games and platforms you use and other information related to installed applications
• Device and Usage Data: Device type, software and hardware details, language settings, browser type and version, operating system, and information about how users use and interact with the Services (e.g., content viewed, pages visited, clicks, scrolls)
• Profile Inferences: Inferences made from your information and web activity to help create a personalized profile so we can identify goods and services that may be of interest
• Audio / Visual Information: Account photos, images, and avatars, audio information via chat features and functionality, and gameplay recordings and video footage (such as when you participate in playtesting)
• Sensitive Information: Precise location information (if you allow the Services to collect your location), account credentials (user name and password), and contents of communications via chat features and functionality.
:::
I wouldnt touch anything this company has produced.
Here is another person, 7 years ago trying the exact same outrage-based engagement farming strategy of linking a TOS update and implying a nefarious intent: https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/8naopt/take_two_a_spyware_apocalypse/ It's exactly the same "Take two is spying on you!!!" content and yet, none of the Borderlands games have added spyware and none have added kernel anti-cheat.
Also, if you read the 2018 and 2025 TOS you will notice notice that the information that they collect in the 2025 TOS ( https://www.take2games.com/legal/en-US/ ) is exactly the same as it was in 2018.
TL;DR - Just because you read it on the Internet, doesn't mean it is true.
Interesting. So the terms of service have not changed, and yet people are saying that they did. I wonder if there are criticisms that are still valid. For example, the terms of service that you linked:
do not let me use a VPN (¶6.4)
do not let me use glitches (¶6.4)
do not let me own the copy of the game that I bought, but instead give me a limited license to it (¶2.1-2.2)
do not inform me about future updates to their terms of service (¶10.2)
force me to enter arbitration and do not let me be part of a class action lawsuit or have a trial by jury (¶17.5)
link to their privacy policy, which:
does not let me opt out of having my data bought, merged, and sold through ad networks or data brokers (§ Categories of Information Collected, § How We Use Information and Our Legal Grounds, § Sources of Information We Collect, and § When We Share Information ¶ 5— all sources combined)
does not attempt to deliberately minimize data collection to protect my data. With the only exception of children's data, their purposes are extremely vague (§ How We Use Information and Our Legal Grounds, as well as the entire document, because they do not attempt to do this in their privacy policy)
does not attempt to anonymize my data (I cannot provide a citation because there is no attempt to do this in their privacy policy)
does not specify the purposes of gathering and using information about any installed application on my device (§ Categories of Information Collected— this is especially worrying)
does not let me opt-out of data collection categories for specific purposes (cannot give a direct citation because they simply do not do it; instead, they wrote vague types of information they collect —such as "details about... other information related to installed applications" in § Categories of Information Collected, as well as vague purposes in § How We Use Information)
So, coming back to the original claim you were debunking:
They added spyware to it.
Your response was
No, they didn’t.
And I agree with you, now that I have read their terms of service and their privacy policy. Of course, we're assuming that they haven't changed their terms of service. If we assume that, then their spyware clauses weren't added. No. They were always there. They have always said that they gather "details about... other information related to installed applications" on my device for purposes that can include merging and selling my data to data brokers and ad networks.
The language about collecting and using data have been in TOSs for basically every online service since the early '00s.
I'm not saying that this is okay. The data that these services collect, which we've given them unlimited rights to, has only become more valuable and the incentives for these companies are always for them to gather more data about you.
You can use archive.org if you want to look at older policies from the same company. But, if you pull up any other game with an online component you will see that they all are essentially "Don't cheat our services or hide your identity, We're going to collect your data and use it how we want, and you have to enter into binding arbitration" with various levels of detail and verbosity.
I sometimes wonder what I casually believe because I read it while scrolling for something interesting. I don't have the time or inclination to fact check every single detail I come across.
I'm sure I believe a lot of nonsense from reading the Internet.
That's okay, we're just human. The problem is when people try to 'inform' people of things that they 'know' from reading social media. That's how these situations are created, so many people believe this because so many other people believe it and then repeat it as fact without themselves ever checking.
It's like a feedback loop of ignorance, caused entirely by people who care more about getting social credit for talking and less about saying things that are true.
I'm assuming the post is actually about DRM operating at ring 0. That's not really root level though. That's kernel level. Root is still operating in user-mode and politely asking the kernel to interact with hardware.
I did some more reading on this, and it apparently isn't due to DRM, its about an update to ToS that occurred in April. The update expands data collection for advertising and forced-arbitration. Arguably that's worse than kernel-level DRM. DRM can be ripped, legal shenanigans can't.
Sure, but it also seems like it's data that you offer up via a 2K account, which I don't have. I have a user name tied to my Steam ID, and that's about it.
If a game, application, device or EULA changes in a way you find unacceptable, after you've purchased it, you should be able to get your initial purchase price back. And if you paid with your data, you need to be able to demand they delete all your data. I think that law would be entirely reasonable and would do a lot of good.
On one side of the ring, greedy corps which want to profile you better than the NSA does. On the other, drama-hungry and social networks-fueled outrage culture.
That's how an old game giveaway backfires and becomes the scandal of the day.
Is it not fully compatible with newer versions of Linux? All the gameplay and comparison videos I've seen look identical to the Windows version. I'd test it myself but I'm pretty sure my computer doesn't have the hardware to run it even on low settings.
LOL. I loved the Borderlands franchise, until Epic made their evil dog shit app store and the Borderlands devs sold out to them. Motherfuck Borderlands forever now. Thanks for the warning so I don't accidentally reinstall any of it from Steam.
I know thats not a risk for you, but this data could genuinely be used by the us government to do that in the near future, for many marginalized populations.
Especially queer people and anyone who could be seen as an immigrant.
Some of us have real problems in life, and have to actually give literally a single fuck about the world.
Yes, the government is going to get you by installing spyware in a game launcher that nobody uses. You won't care a shit about or vet at code level any of the 200+ closed source games you will play in your life because they're all fine in your fantasy land, but one game launcher is out to kidnap you.
So 50% score loss because of a permissive EULA, got it ...
I'll just leave this in the "Pitchforks against Pitchford" and "Woke, must hate" folder. Call me back when they do actually include a rootkit in their games instead of jumping the gun because loud feelings say loud things. If only there was some way to get statistics of the people getting outraged because of posts in a subreddit community and the people who don't have a problem with rootkits installed by their favorite MMOs...
Let's try this logic on other things. Their EULA says they can cut off a finger whenever they want. They haven't cut off my finger for my purchase of this game, call me back when they cut it off.
If you're someone that doesn't want companies to have root level access to your computer, waiting until it happens is silly when they're telling you it's gonna happen. It is every reason to complain and be concerned.
No offense, but have you ever read EULAs? Even Windows EULA has a lot of "cut off a finger" provisions. It's invasive, and people are right to complain. People might cry Linux, but when their job requires them to use Windows and abide by that EULA, most will crumble.
Like it or not, most EULAs are legally binding bullshit that more often than not has to be ignored or bypassed outside of it if necessary. How many people are watching YouTube and ignoring their Terms of Service while using adblockers?
This is nothing new in the world of gaming, and to the scale of affecting over 50% of the score of a game for a provision that is often included in other games they have no problem with is what's revealing. A lot of MMOs and many multiplayer games do, but people haven't cried wolf outside of a minority of their community. Pitchford has given his explanation, that it is a matter of the 2K EULA Gearbox has to adopt.
Let’s try this logic on other things. Are all 2K games that have this in their newly updated EULA's being boycotted? Hint: Civilization is a 2K game.
Some things are just obvious when your head is not stuck inside the ass of a circlejerk bandwagon. It's just sad that some people aren't honest with themselves and and are not willing to recognize how easily they are influenced by people who are holding hidden grudges. Too many games are getting shit on because of this, and I say this as someone who is not looking forward to the next Borderlands game until the discounts drop it well below its 80 dollar price tag several years from now while plenty of loud people in this thread will go out to buy it on day one.
I agree they should expand their review protest to all games in the catalog and not selectively review bomb. Consumers have every reason to impact products success through their purchasing power and reviews. I stopped giving my money to game companies I don't like a decade ago. It means missing some games, but there is so much out there it hardly matters. I don't give a shit about this specific controversy, but I do think people have every reason to use their bully pulpit to attempt to impact consumer habits and therefore at least attempt change, even if they are often unsuccessful.
Don’t speak I’ll of steam and billionaire Gabe around here. The steam bros are gonna crucify you for daring to even think ill of THEIR corporation and THEIR billionaire who of course loves and cares for them all.
You're right that it's not Valve they're mad at, buuuuut....
They could regulate that no games they sell can have rootkits and delist the ones that do, as well as offer refunds if a rootkit is patched in in the future. They have lots of rules already, and I don't think that would be a bad one.
So should Walmart stop selling products that I deem unfit based on my personal preferences too? Say goodbye to animal fats, products made in the US, ultra processed foods, some fruit I just don't like the taste of, all Nestlé products...
If somebody put strychnine in the guacamole, I'd expect Walmart to remove it from the shelves and offer refunds to anyone that bought it.
If somebody distributed malware through Steam, I'd expect them to stop it also.
Not that there is currently malware in Borderlands 2, but their EULA says they could put it there if they wanted, and there's nothing you could do about it.
As usual, money is the best message. So if they do put it into a game you've paid for, request a refund. If Valve starts losing money, they will change their rules.
Steam refunded me multiple time for game where EULA changed and I disagreed with it. I told them that the EULA changed to include spyware capabilities and I don't agree with the EULA change.
I didnt realize Steam would do that. There have been several times where EULAs changed or malware was added a year or more later and I just assumed I had no recourse.
Dépend on the backslash they get.
I have to admit it didn't work each time.
Last time I did it was for a psn account requirement added after they sold it
Yeah it didn't work each time.I don't remember the specific game, I think they got a huge backslash with some game and I kept asking for refund and telling them I disagree with EULA update which made my game unusable.
I am in Europe through, that may have played a rôle
This thread makes me wish we could have a discussion community where we exclude Americans. Even the left are nuts over there now. Nothing but name calling and shit slinging. Glad your country is drowning
You literally posted the answer to your question. Here is an expansion of the details.
I haven't read the new TOS but if this review is correct it looks like a GDPR nightmare for them. Good luck to them explaining why they need to collect all that personal data.
The "collected data types" in that comment seems to be copy/pasted from the privacy policy
https://www.take2games.com/privacy/en-US/
That might be US only, where the companies have freedom to get all the customer's data and do with it as they will.
The list where this doesn't apply seems to basically be every country with consumer protection laws.
They obviously know this won't fly pretty much anywhere other than the US so that's all they're trying to push.
Most people don't care about privacy.
Most people in the western civilized world are on Facebook, so...
but ask those same people whether facebook should be allowed to collect and use all that data, and people will generally say 'no'.
Sad truth, but it's no excuse.
Do we know this is a thing in the EU?
I just read the german version and compared them a little. (https://www.take2games.com/privacy/de/) Its about the same. But ist also reads fairly normal like any other privacy policy. I also think its in line with EU law. The collected data always relates to whatever TakeTwo service you use and whatever data you provide voluntarily or technically by using it. Thats fine by EU law.
Due to Steam's tos updates a few months ago, isn't take-two opening itself up to a massive lawsuit?
No idea, but I think it would be funny, so I'm all for it and hope you are right.
Hm... Ok. Thats crazy. Someone wants to create a new branch of income it seems.
Thats a fucking shame. Now I need to reconsider my plans to buy Borderlands4.
But how will they do it? Which information is gathered from which source? Most of my accounts only hold as little informations as possible. Also my Os knows nothing about me. My MS account neither.
On the other hand my steam 2FA need some mobile information.
Checkout Jump Ship? It's some weird borderlands, Star citizen, (insert other generic shooter) type game. Pretty neat, was recommended to me by a shooter fanatic friend of mine. I trust his shooting game opinion
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1757300/Jump_Ship/
oh cool, I can see that it's similar Borderlands by the screenshots, and I can see that it's like Star Citizen because it's not actually released yet and they're taking money for early access.
Hah exactly :D
Happy cake day
😂😂
Unless you use Linux, your OS knows a ton about you. On top of that, with root access to your computer they can do whatever they want and if their system gets hacked you become a member of a bot farm or crypto mine.
Well I use Linux, but not on my gaming pc. I would switch to it because its all amd, but I don't want to because it lacks the driver suite for my gpu (adrenaline) and I don't want to install a bunch of small applications to gain a small fraction of options it offers.
It's a pitty. Because I realy want to ditch windows since its newest iteration.
Don't just review bomb it
Report it to steam as SPYWARE, with the little flag icon on the product page
Steam has a history of removing things people don't like (for example: banning ad-ridden games)
So if all these reports can bring them to add this to their TOS, it's worth it
absolutely. Steam is not to mess with and takes such matters quite seriously.
Fun fact, it's called a parliament! I regret that I am not an owl.
Doesn’t the screenshot you posted explain what’s going on?
That. The content of the screenshot you posted. That is what's going on.
Pirates are winning over my empathy.
They've been my best friend for years
Piracy never gave me up, never let me down
They would never turn around and desert me
Might maroon me for fucking up the FOSS though.
We should be done coddling the late comers at this point. Yes welcome them and accept them, but at a certain point your level of ignorance became a detriment to your community and you should be made aware of that fact.
Its a bit more than that:
Precise location information? Wtf for?
Hyper Localized Advertising. Welcome to the future :(
I just saw an advertisement for a custom T-shirt:
"That's right, I'm a December dad, who lives at 62a, with size 10 feet and prescription glasses..."
/S
"By scrolling past, you agree to sharing with us (and our affiliates) the following collected data types: ..."
Oh honey, what's any of it for?
They use the same terms of service for mobile games and they just dont bother to change it for pc games.
This mistake makes sense to make as a mistake. But also, that's fuckin asinine
It isn't a mistake. Writing different EULA for each game costs more money than writing an overly aggressive one that covers most cases.
So that they can have a back door to as many private computers as possible.
Would it shock you to know that ALL of these are in the Steam terms of service also?
The only really sus one to me is the forced arbitration clause, and Steam also had that til they were pressured to remove it by multiple legal cases, including a class action brought to them by Steam users just last September. It is only sus because it's outdated - companies are generally removing them now rather than adding them. https://www.legal.io/articles/5540864/Valve-Removes-Mandatory-Arbitration-from-Steam-Subscriber-Agreement
RE: remaining top 5 bullet points, 3 of the remaining 4 bullet points are uncontroversial bullet points about anticheat. The fourth is banning modding, which is also just a heavy handed anticheat attempt, and not uncommon for online games to add to their ToS to allow banning at their discretion. Either way its clumsy at the least as some mods can be harmless eg HUD mods for colourblind people and deserves some negativity - but not to this level, given everything else is just so boilerplate.
Collected data types: these are all for if you buy stuff with a credit card / paypal / etc off 2k/parent company Take 2. Remember, they sell games with in-game purchases. They also have an app which has location permissions option which is what the precise location is about.
So yes - again, as OP said, this is nothing controversial if you have paid attention to ToS meaning and content over the past 20 years.
Aside from the forced arbitration crap - which Steam, Microsoft, Amazon, Lyft, Uber, Google, AT&T - and hundreds of other major companies all snuck into their ToS over the years, and many have now been legally pressured to remove by consumer rights group. That is stupid because it shows their legal team is behind the times, companies are mostly removing their forced arbitration clauses nowadays because it has been the cause of many lost class actions.
A bit more than what, not really sure what your point here is? All of those bullet points are similar if not identical to terms in other EULAs half the people in this thread have already clicked thru.
I’ll say it again, if you think this is anything new you haven’t been paying attention. I’m all for calling this fuckery out and pushing for something better. But like where yall been?
Still no actual answers from anyone on how this is ‘more’ than what I described in my op. Sure it’s a more detailed list, but it’s really not the “gotcha” everyone seems to think it is. That is, if youve been paying attention.
What point are you trying to make? You say you're "all for calling this kind of fuckery out" but then you're criticizing people for calling it out? And who cares what other EULAs might say? The point is that the license agreement for this game and others owned by this company didn't say this shit before, and now they do. The company is actively making their user agreement more hostile to the users which is what people are pissed about.
That's just not true.
Here's a Reddit user trying the same kind out outrage farming 7 years ago using Take 2's TOS and implying it allows spyware: https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/8naopt/take_two_a_spyware_apocalypse/
If you look at Valve's TOS or any other game developer who has games with an online component, you will see the exact same language regarding data collection. The language being added is to comply with laws, like the GDPR, which requires specific language indicating what data is collected and how it is used.
The data that is being collected is the same as it was 10 years ago. There's nothing new here, just a YT video that got a lot of views and social media being full of people who don't fact check anything.
That it takes more critical thinking to accomplish the organized action needed for real change than leaving a bunch of negative reviews.
I never once said ‘other company’s do it so just deal with it.’ Fuckawhataboutism. I said “if you think this is new, you haven’t been paying attention.” What I shouldn’t have left unsaid was ‘the review is a nice start and show of intention. but we need a lot more dedicated, well organized action, to actually accomplish any change.’
But people read into things what they want to hear.
Let's ride the wave. Turn this into a huge controversy known industry-wide. Then, next game that comes out with EULA like this, we say "THIS GAME HAS A BORDERLANDS-STYLE EULA". Pretend it's new to exploit the shock value and get the gamers riled up. Then, the industry gets better.
Tell the frog that the pot wasn't always this hot.
Thank you for an actually constructive response. You’ve honestly brought me around a bit with this.
I see this kind of comment before and I will never understand it - "other companies do it so just bend over and let us do it to you too!"
People say this all the time about Denuvo too: "Other games already have Denuvo, why are you crying about it here when you're playing other games?"
And see, that's the problem - we aren't playing those other Denuvo games. And same thing applies here, guess what, a lot of us aren't buying games from gross companies like EA with these shit terms. So when a company we are doing business with suddenly changes their terms to be shit, that's a valid complaint. Some of us have already been boycotting bad business practices in the industry, so the idea of company changing terms towards the boycott after we've already invested in the game feels like a betrayal because it is.
So maybe stop focusing on what you assume the rest of audience is doing and instead go back to focusing on what the people at the goddamn podium are trying to pull?
Why does everyone insist on adding the ‘so just bend over and take’ part whenever someone points out another source of wrongdoing? Like what do yall always take it to mean that the speaker is implying a whataboutism argument? And not maybe as ‘oh shit this has been going on longer than just this maybe we should learn about that too and we might figure out why it hasn’t been stopped yet.’
If "everyone" keeps reading a sentiment you did not intend out of your message, perhaps it is time to consider that you are doing a poor job of communicating your point.
Or you're being disingenuous and just don't like being calling on your hissy fit.
I dunno, take your pick.
It’s the first one, I’m terrible at effectively communicating nuanced points.
And I mean yall could interrogate the statement instead of reaching a conclusion and then responding but I get it.
But also, fuck that. Do more work as the reader.
Also, piss off with your infantilizing ‘hissy fit’ bullshit.
Some people will always find an excuse to change nothing.
It doesn't matter how many similar EULA's people have already accepted. The best moment to not eat it anymore would have been the first time it happened, the second best time is right now.
Also, retroactively amending an EULA is a different quality, since people have already paid for the game and would be locked out after the fact if they didn't accept.
I’m sad you read this as an admission of defeat and an attempt to deter others from fighting. Was hoping for more of a ‘you’re late, you have a bunch of homework to catch up on’ vibe but I’m not great at communicating all the time.
It seems like you're giving of a "victim" vibe with this by stating you wished for only a particular type of "positive response" when you've posted a misleading comment and doubled-down with "EULAs half the people in this thread have already clicked thru" which you have no way of knowing.
"Was hoping for more of a ‘you’re late, you have a bunch of homework to catch up on’" You're expecting others to hold your hand and inform you of every event or action taken by every company. I guess I'll do my part since I have been trying to let other people know for a while now,
StormGate - Privacy Policy and End User Agreement. Is this just the new industry standard to avoid? (post made by me 10 months ago)
Why don't you see it more?
Steam Discussion deleted after questioning the "EULA" of Stormgate, another post by me after I tried to inform others and was suppressed, meaning the reviews is the only course of action that most have at their disposal. Even posting on their official subreddit did no good with the exact same type of response you've presented here,
Why am I consenting to have my "Medical Information", "Browser/Search History", "Social Security/Drivers License number", "Geolocation and movements", and more collected to play Stormgate? (22k members, only 122 upvotes)
(the responses)
You've officially become part of the problem and an ally to the very same reason why we can't "accomplish the organized action needed for real change (than leaving a bunch of negative reviews.)"
Man I’m tired.
If more folks are waking up and shaking a stick at it or doing something but blindly click through (thus legally unenforceable) EULAs I'm all for it.
Better late than never.
I get that and agree, this is just a crappy and kinda dumb stick to be wasting the energy on because it makes the side opposing the injustice look like petulant children instead of enabling effective action.
I don't click thru any EULAs. I see bad EULA - I pirate. Then if it makes any network traffic i just block that shit.
yo ho
So...if Steam is running in a Flatpak, and Borderlands is launched from Steam, how much can they even see...really?
They know I use Linux and that means they know too much
Not a lot. Even when it isn't a flatpak windows software running on linux won't be able to interact with the system anywhere near as deeply as on windows.
They'll be able to tell it's linux, though.
Without using exploits to escape the container, not much. A very empty Windows environment with a single game installed, your network interfaces and any directories that the Flatpak has access to (usually just the SteamLibrary directories).
The TOS (https://www.take2games.com/legal/en-US/) changes are mostly related to data that they collect via their interfacing with Steam and through their website. This idea that they're requiring you to agree to a root level access or installing a spyware rootkit is just nonsense.
You can install an application like Flatseal (https://flathub.org/apps/com.github.tchx84.Flatseal) to inspect the permissions for a flatpak.
How locked down a flatpak is depends entirely on the developer and what permissions they request. By default, they can't really see much. For example, they can't even see the processes running on your host or your user and system files.
Flatpak does not do anything about network access though, it can only do no access or full access, no in between. The data they can collect on Linux in a Flatpak is very limited but it does not prevent them from calling home.
New to linux...are flatpaks like sandboxed?
They are somewhat isolated but not sandboxed.
Sort of. They can be, but are not always.
Pretty much nailed it, yep.
A youtuber named Hellfire has been on a spree, basically discovering how fucked up EULAs have been in games for the past 20ish years... well this is all brand new news to him and and his Zoomer / Gen A followers.
There is, as of right now, literally zero evidence that Borderlands 2 has been updated with a rootkit, with kernel level anti cheat, anything like that.
The last update to its game files was 2 years ago.
This is almost certainly them updating the EULA everywhere, the precise timing of this being for some specific arcane legal and business reasons... TakeTwo runs a whole bunch more games than juat Borderlands... namely GTA V...
...
Is this EULA bad? Yes.
Is it much worse than it was before, or what other large gaming companies EULAs have, and have had for... a decade+?
Maybe by a bit, but not really, no.
...
Is Randy Pitchford a dumb idiot asshole?
Oh absolutely yes, but that shouldn't give people the liscense to make completely unevidenced claims about other things.
...
The game does not have a kernel level AC or some kind of rootkit DRM, as many, many people are currently saying it does.
I guess gamer attention span can really hold onto a few keywords and phrases at a time.
... I say this all as person who is vehemently against kernel level AC, who has been pointing out for 4 years, that almost all existing anti cheat systems currently have at least one game that implements their AC, on linux, without using kernel level anything.... it is entirely possible to do AC without kernel level shit, even on linux, and has been for at least 4 years. EAC and BattleEye have supported linux for 4 years, but nearly no game that uses them has actually used this feature/available and offered support.
I am glad that this level of hate is finally being directed at shitty EULAs, but lets at least get our facts straight, or actually provide some hitherto unseen evidence that Borderlands has had some kind of sleeper malware in it for at least the past two years, just waiting to be activated by a TOS update to every single Take Two game.
I just don't understand anticheat or copy protection on PvE games. I can understand it if you don't want to play against a cheater, but this is a cooperative shooter.
See you're looking at it from the point of view that it would serve the player experience, but that's not what it's for, it's to mine your data
We haven’t gotten another Middle Earth game because it had an online requirement
Now look where we are
Hey, you posted this twice. Pretty easy to do, if your initial post does not go through and you hit Reply again…
It's for precedent on future games and to sneak in shit for later. Wittle down your expectations and privacy, make it "normal".
IIRC Borderlands 3 scales the value of loot to the game's difficulty setting, with some mechanics aimed at encouraging players to join online coops at high difficulties in order to earn more valuable loot. I imagine cheats undermine that intent, and I also imagine borderlands 4 might be aiming at a pay to play scheme.
I'm guessing this EULA is being used for all their IP with the intent of taking advantage of it in the future.
Need to protect those purchasing opportunities from cheaters.
🏴☠️ is free and without shenanigans.
giving root level access to russian crackers instead
If you go to the right sites you won’t get any malicious code. Stop spreading corpo propaganda.
There is nuance here. Not every crack is malicious but you have to assume they all are because some of them are. Trusting a source is irrelevant. Many security products will falsely tag cracked software as dangerous just because it’s cracked, not because it found a specific bit of nasty code, and this feeds the idea that you can’t believe when people tell you cracked software is unsafe. But there are many truly bad cracks out there. When in doubt, don’t trust it.
And you should always doubt free shit.
Same is true of any software these days, not just cracks...
This is true. Even projects with good reputations get caught up in shit like the XZ back door in Linux.
If you haven’t read up on that fiasco, you really should look into it. It got way too far before being caught all because people suck and ruin things for others.
it isn't propaganda.
it's been a while since I've used windows, but I remember having to give administrator privileges to software installers, whether they are from legitimate vendors or from ripping groups with modified code
Thats a windows thing so it can put files in "protected" folders like program files
What's with this anyway? A remnant from the single-user days?
Some software installers still ask if I want to install for all users, which require elevated permissions, or only for me, which don't. In that last option it will not prompt for elevated permissions as it will use one of my user's folders which I have already all permissions for, obviously.
It's a security measure that's half assed. People are so used to it they just click allow but don't actually look at the prompt anymore. Like I see a lot of people do with cookies on websites.
The unfortunate thing about the UAC prompt is that it gives the software permission to put files in protected folders, but it also gives the software root permission so it can do literally anything else without prompting the user. Except, I believe, if it tries to install unsigned kernel drivers, then the user has to click a new prompt... but you can completely compromise a machine with the permissions that users routinely give to executables that they download from the Internet.
Shh, the kids don't want to hear about the dark side of free things (oh hey, a new Meta service!)
/s
Damn, its such a shame you can't run a crack in a vm, or on linux via WINE and Proton, aw shucks.
and then run whatever modified code it just deployed on the host, yea
A game with a malicious crack that can escape a VM running on Windows and get to the main OS?
Sure, possible, but not by any means common.
A game with a malicious crack made for Windows that can... do anything nefarious when you're running it on linux via WINE and Proton?
... Theoretically possible, but I've never heard of this actually occuring.
The same, but also inside another linux OS inside of a Bottle or Distrobox... or full VM... all running on a linux system that is significantly atomized with a read only core-os?
... At that point I am quite doubtful anyone is bothering to make a malicious crack that capable... when 99% of the existing game trainers and hacks that you can find or buy online... only work on Windows.
The crowd of people making game exploits and cheat engines... and the crowd of people making malicious game cracks.... that venn diagram is almost a circle... and 99% of these people do not bother to 'support' linux, in anyway, at all, with anything they do.
Is using any random cracked software ever 100% safe? No.
But neither is say, using a Windows system, with 0 cracks or hacks... but with a MSFT trusted vendor's 3rd party anti malware software... where said trusted vendor is allowed to push an unverified update to their kernel level anti-malware system... that is actually malformed, and then knocks out about 1/4 of every enterprise Windows PCs on Earth for 2 weeks.
Over wine?
I apparently love downvotes but here goes: All the Borderlands games (annoying childish cell-shaded skinner-box) and everything Gearbox is and has ever created it utter shit. The CEO is a garbage person, and thier dealings with Epic is Capitalist-Oink-Piggy shite! ""FUCK YOU 2K & GEARBOX, AND FUCK YOU BORDERLANDS!"
Apart from the politics, the Borderlands games themselves are hardly utter shit for the most part.
The writing is garbage but,... it's a game for edgy teenagers. It would be.
The gameplay for me is Diablo with guns. It would suck for anyone not into that. If anyone isn't into that, don't buy Borderlands games.
Got to argue, I'm a 39 year old gamer, started with PCs back in 90s.
The games are casual fun, they work great as co-op shooters. Story is what it is, but the games themselves are lighthearted and just pure entertaining fun.
Not masterpieces. Just good.
The first felt really fresh at the time. FPS was dominated by various milsim shooters and Halo, and the irreverence and clever cell shading style worked well.
Two dialed things up in scope and scale and added some nice environmental variety.
But the rest? The presequel? The 3rd? I just couldn’t. It was more of the same, tired, repetitive, the jokes started really scraping the bottom of the barrel. I had fun early on, but I’m out.
I liked 1 and 2. Got bored for the prequel and 3 early on.
Tiny Tinas I did play and really enjoyed that game. It felt like a reasonable advancement over BL 1 and 2. It felt like they stagnated for a bit and raised the bar slightly with Tinas.
I really wanted an MMO style Borderlands with 4, and I wouldn't value 4 any higher than Tinas launch price. But I am interested in what the game has to offer.
If you liked only the first two, def give Tina's a try, if it has a good sale.
I loved the gameplay of pre sequel. But the writing for that was constantly throwing me for a loop on how any of it was greenlit. I didn't mind the writing in 1 and 2, I got a few chuckles out of that. Pre sequel just made me groan, moan and yawn.
What are you arguing with? I don't see your comment as contradictory to theirs at all.
I guess his premise, that it's for edgy teens. Heck, half the pop references were ancient on launch.
You would've been 16 years old on launch if you're 39 now though.
True, but I've been couch-cooping them only recently.
You're definitely right about Pitchford or w/e dingleberry's name is.
OpFor was good, Blue Shift was alright too.
Everything since they stole the whole idea of Borderlands has been bad though.
Yes, but it should still be illegal for a company to do this. Don't let them blame the users for accepting this bullshit. As Louis Rossmann would say, they have the mentality of a rapist.
Yep, I am jumping in with you on this one.
The cell-shaded art style? Not the problem, imo.
The problem is the just astoundingly terrible writing, immensely insufferable characters, and astonishingly brain dead gameplay.
Why have weapon balance ortactically interesting scenarios or any real sense of progression in gameplay when we can just procedurally generate guns and do everything we can to make everything into roughly the same level of bullet sponge with auto levelling?
They are the lowest common denominator of co-op shooter games, made for people who enjoy bombastic sensory overload and near zero prefrontal cortex brain activity while gaming.
Except lawbreakers but he tainted it by supporting it and made ppl against it
Bro thank you for mentioning Lawbreakers. Such a fun game that was cut short.
I'm sorry, but Battleborn was brilliant. Deadlock is the first game to re-capture (and expand on) the mix of mechanics Battleborn put together.
Didn't stop Gearbox from shutting it down so that no-one who bought it could ever play again. Not even the story campaign.
Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Owns Rockstar Games, Zynga and 2K. So if that's all their games, it includes at least these: Bioshock series, Borderlands series, Civilization series, Grand Theft Auto series, Mafia series, Max Payne series, NBA 2K series, PGA Tour 2K series, Red Dead series, WWE 2K series and XCOM series.
Amazing stuff!
That's just a list of games that used to be good and now suck.
I object to that for XCOM
True, it was always bad :p
I sometimes wonder what will happen when EAC, that has root access to millions of PCs, gets compromised or has grunty employee and pushes malicious update
Yup, same here. As long as it's convenient, my friends/family don't care what is taken from them.
Then the death squads will come in, and they'll ask 'how could this possibly happen!?', getting fucking pissed or saying "we couldn't have known!" when you answer, and offer an 'i fucking told you so' in line for the camps.
You're there too, because they tagged you in everything.
It probably spys on you already.
The company that makes the Overwolf game launcher is an Israli cyber security company that gets money from the US.
Tencent spys on people for China through a lot of the games they own.
Holy fuck I did not know about Overwolf. That's the last time I download something from my, apparently, dipshit friend (no, this is not the only stupid thing he's done).
Hey, maybe your friend didn't know either!(nor did i😭)
Yes that's the problem, he doesn't know a lot of things. He also doesn't seem very keen on learning them.
He's young, so I still have hope for him but god damnit he's stupid and a potential hazard apparently.
I think it's kind of ironic you call your friend apparently a dipshit for not knowing something you also didn't know... pot calling the kettle black & all.
Reading comprehension is hard. I get it.
Crowdstrike 2.0
A government that cares for is people would ban this shit and procecute any company trying to find ways around it.
I checked the Steam depots. It seems the game files haven’t been updated since 2022. All that seems to have changed is some license agreement in February. Seems to be a thing across take two games, and not specific to borderlands 2.
Basically nothing has changed in real terms for this game. Maybe borderlands 4 might have draconian DRM, who knows.
They can drop updates anytime after they made sure to have you accept the spyware.
I doubt it though, the game will be 13 years old this year. It wouldn’t make financial sense for them to bother.
Yikes. Is the review in the screenshot true? They got root anticheat? Or rootkit data harvesting?
He said they added a kernel level anticheat in the TOS which is true. But they seem to have not included it in the game yet. But they tell that by possedong the game you allow them to. Edit : typo but can't correct "possedong" now
I'd like to know how your autocorrect learned this word
That's a typo from an i to an o, commenter probably meant possessing but made a mistake and tried to type posseding, I suspect their native language is french given their username and "to possess" in french is "posséder".
That being said, a possedong sounds intriguing
Do you do osint ? ... That pretty Mich on point. I use a English/French keyboard and sometime autocorrect do strange things.
I had to look this up... looks like it's a whole thing
Really ? I though, since you used a though process used in osint. Osint is open sources intelligences, it is looking for data about something/someone in data available for all
No, it's misinformation and people who uncritically repeat things without verification.
I've had the game installed for years and have to manually apply updates, there hasn't been one. e: I just checked, last update in Steam is dated 2022
All they've done is make their TOS universal across all of their games.
e: adding this from last post. TL;DR: People are spreading misinformation
He said it, root access level in the TOS of BorderLand. Not that a root kit is included, but that they allowed them self to inclid it whenever they can. That not misinformation...
It is misinformation if the things he said are not true.
So, let's look into the claims.
Here's the TOS:
https://www.take2games.com/legal/en-US/
There is nothing about root level access.
In addition, if you look at the patch history for Borderlands 2 on SteamDB, you will see that the last update for the game was 4 August 2022.
So, to be clear:
There is nothing in the TOS that requires you to submit to a rootkit and there is no spyware that has been added. The comment in the OP is simply wrong.
This is what happens when you simply read social media and repeat what you've heard without checking to see if you're spreading misinformation.
I'm really curious on what actual specific steps you took to "check". It took me about a few minutes of reading to find it.
https://www.take2games.com/privacy/en-US/#3-sources-of-information
Furthermore, https://www.take2games.com/legal/en-US/#10-availability specifically section 10.2
I hope the people who upvoted your misinformation are able to see this, please think of your actions and conduct before posting multiple comments defending a company if you're worried about misinformation.
That... doesn't actually rebut anything FauxLiving said. That they may use anti-cheat, and that they may have automatic updates, aren't the claims in question here.
Ummm those two would statements would in fact allow them to install a "anticheat" rookit/kernel program at any time without your knowledge...
Sincerely thank you for commenting. I was completely dumbfounded with @[email protected]'s statement and wasn't sure if I wanted to waste my time with a response if it was just trolling.
Is this because Embracer sold Borderlands to Take-Two last year?
It's because Take Two came out with a fuck-you-in-the-ass EULA for all their games. I actually look forward to boycotting someone, there's too much free and discounted shit everywhere
Maybe it's hidden in the in-game eula and they're using their launcher to collect all that info before we even get to agree or disagree.
I only play AAA games on GeForce Now (cloud). If the game can't run on my Linux system or on the cloud, I ain't touching it. Also, there are so many wonderful games that do not require a colonoscopy into your personal data to be played.
They added spyware to it.
Here is excerpt from the tos, shared by user in steam reviews of the game.
::: spoiler important Info in Terms of Service:
• Mods are a bannable offense • Display of Cheats/Exploits is bannable • Forced arbitration clause and a waiver of class action and jury trial rights for all users residing in the United States and any other territory other than Australia, Switzerland, The United Kingdom, or The Territories of The European Economic Area • You can be banned for using a VPN while connecting to online servers • Cannot access game content on a Virtual PC
Collected Data Types: • Identifiers / Contact Information: Name, user name, gamertag, postal and email address, phone number, unique IDs, mobile device ID, platform ID, gaming service ID, advertising ID (IDFA, Android ID) and IP address • Protected Characteristics: Age and gender • Commercial Information: Purchase and usage history and preferences, including gameplay information • Billing Information: Payment information (credit / debit card information) and shipping address • Internet / Electronic Activity: Web / app browsing and gameplay information related to the Services; information about your online interaction(s) with the Services or our advertising; and details about the games and platforms you use and other information related to installed applications • Device and Usage Data: Device type, software and hardware details, language settings, browser type and version, operating system, and information about how users use and interact with the Services (e.g., content viewed, pages visited, clicks, scrolls) • Profile Inferences: Inferences made from your information and web activity to help create a personalized profile so we can identify goods and services that may be of interest • Audio / Visual Information: Account photos, images, and avatars, audio information via chat features and functionality, and gameplay recordings and video footage (such as when you participate in playtesting) • Sensitive Information: Precise location information (if you allow the Services to collect your location), account credentials (user name and password), and contents of communications via chat features and functionality. :::
I wouldnt touch anything this company has produced.
No, they didn't.
Just because something sounds outrageous, doesn't mean it is true.
Borderlands 2 hasn't been updated since 2022:
Borderlands - Last updated: 3 August 2016 Borderlands 2 - Last updated: 4 August 2022 Borderlands 3 - Last updated: 8 August 2024
No Borderlands titles include anti-cheat: https://areweanticheatyet.com/?search=borderlands
Here is another person, 7 years ago trying the exact same outrage-based engagement farming strategy of linking a TOS update and implying a nefarious intent: https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/8naopt/take_two_a_spyware_apocalypse/ It's exactly the same "Take two is spying on you!!!" content and yet, none of the Borderlands games have added spyware and none have added kernel anti-cheat.
Also, if you read the 2018 and 2025 TOS you will notice notice that the information that they collect in the 2025 TOS ( https://www.take2games.com/legal/en-US/ ) is exactly the same as it was in 2018.
TL;DR - Just because you read it on the Internet, doesn't mean it is true.
Interesting. So the terms of service have not changed, and yet people are saying that they did. I wonder if there are criticisms that are still valid. For example, the terms of service that you linked:
So, coming back to the original claim you were debunking:
Your response was
And I agree with you, now that I have read their terms of service and their privacy policy. Of course, we're assuming that they haven't changed their terms of service. If we assume that, then their spyware clauses weren't added. No. They were always there. They have always said that they gather "details about... other information related to installed applications" on my device for purposes that can include merging and selling my data to data brokers and ad networks.
The language about collecting and using data have been in TOSs for basically every online service since the early '00s.
I'm not saying that this is okay. The data that these services collect, which we've given them unlimited rights to, has only become more valuable and the incentives for these companies are always for them to gather more data about you.
You can use archive.org if you want to look at older policies from the same company. But, if you pull up any other game with an online component you will see that they all are essentially "Don't cheat our services or hide your identity, We're going to collect your data and use it how we want, and you have to enter into binding arbitration" with various levels of detail and verbosity.
I sometimes wonder what I casually believe because I read it while scrolling for something interesting. I don't have the time or inclination to fact check every single detail I come across.
Totally. And then these rebuttals are time consuming to fact check too.
I'm sure I believe a lot of nonsense from reading the Internet.
That's okay, we're just human. The problem is when people try to 'inform' people of things that they 'know' from reading social media. That's how these situations are created, so many people believe this because so many other people believe it and then repeat it as fact without themselves ever checking.
It's like a feedback loop of ignorance, caused entirely by people who care more about getting social credit for talking and less about saying things that are true.
I'm assuming the post is actually about DRM operating at ring 0. That's not really root level though. That's kernel level. Root is still operating in user-mode and politely asking the kernel to interact with hardware.
But it doesn't have the mandatory kernel level disclaimer either.
I did some more reading on this, and it apparently isn't due to DRM, its about an update to ToS that occurred in April. The update expands data collection for advertising and forced-arbitration. Arguably that's worse than kernel-level DRM. DRM can be ripped, legal shenanigans can't.
Sure, but it also seems like it's data that you offer up via a 2K account, which I don't have. I have a user name tied to my Steam ID, and that's about it.
You think that will stop this from spreading like cancer?
Ok so that explains the bad reviews, but why is steam giving the game away for free? Also BL3 is heavily discounted
I think it's up to the publisher, and not steam, to give the game away for free.
Publisher made it free to propagate their spyware.
Probably because borderlands 4 is on the horizon and sweat-gland randy caught some flag for tweets.
My guess is that it was planed to be good PR.
I noticed too.
If a game, application, device or EULA changes in a way you find unacceptable, after you've purchased it, you should be able to get your initial purchase price back. And if you paid with your data, you need to be able to demand they delete all your data. I think that law would be entirely reasonable and would do a lot of good.
On one side of the ring, greedy corps which want to profile you better than the NSA does. On the other, drama-hungry and social networks-fueled outrage culture.
That's how an old game giveaway backfires and becomes the scandal of the day.
Is the EULA also applicable to the Linux version, assuming that Aspyr did actually port the game to Linux and not just use Wine or something?
The Linux version is utter dog shit. It's native but it's really terrible looking.
Is it not fully compatible with newer versions of Linux? All the gameplay and comparison videos I've seen look identical to the Windows version. I'd test it myself but I'm pretty sure my computer doesn't have the hardware to run it even on low settings.
Remind me and I'll look into it. I have BL2 but never ever played it back in the day.
I played it sometime toward the end of last year using proton. I'll have to try it again.
It's also not been updated for a long time. You can't play with the windows version anymore.
If it hasn't been updated that means the new user agreement isn't asked surely?
Why isnt Steam banning them? Munny?
I didn't enjoy the Handsome Collection but free is free. Thanks for sharing.
LOL. I loved the Borderlands franchise, until Epic made their evil dog shit app store and the Borderlands devs sold out to them. Motherfuck Borderlands forever now. Thanks for the warning so I don't accidentally reinstall any of it from Steam.
Bro get a life, it's not that serious. Evil app store lmao as if they're out to murder you and your family
I know thats not a risk for you, but this data could genuinely be used by the us government to do that in the near future, for many marginalized populations.
Especially queer people and anyone who could be seen as an immigrant.
Some of us have real problems in life, and have to actually give literally a single fuck about the world.
Yes, the government is going to get you by installing spyware in a game launcher that nobody uses. You won't care a shit about or vet at code level any of the 200+ closed source games you will play in your life because they're all fine in your fantasy land, but one game launcher is out to kidnap you.
You know the parent company has military contracts, right?
I’ll just stick to playing my console copy
If you're worried about personal data collection then I have some bad news for you...
Every government and corporation has some data on us no matter how we like it. I was referring to my Xbox 360 copy which is totally offline.
lemmy yet again falls for the ragebait hook line and sinker
Y'all really going to freak out over the new paralegal being told to update the EULAs and lazily hitting the update all button?
So 50% score loss because of a permissive EULA, got it ...
I'll just leave this in the "Pitchforks against Pitchford" and "Woke, must hate" folder. Call me back when they do actually include a rootkit in their games instead of jumping the gun because loud feelings say loud things. If only there was some way to get statistics of the people getting outraged because of posts in a subreddit community and the people who don't have a problem with rootkits installed by their favorite MMOs...
Let's try this logic on other things. Their EULA says they can cut off a finger whenever they want. They haven't cut off my finger for my purchase of this game, call me back when they cut it off.
If you're someone that doesn't want companies to have root level access to your computer, waiting until it happens is silly when they're telling you it's gonna happen. It is every reason to complain and be concerned.
No offense, but have you ever read EULAs? Even Windows EULA has a lot of "cut off a finger" provisions. It's invasive, and people are right to complain. People might cry Linux, but when their job requires them to use Windows and abide by that EULA, most will crumble.
Like it or not, most EULAs are legally binding bullshit that more often than not has to be ignored or bypassed outside of it if necessary. How many people are watching YouTube and ignoring their Terms of Service while using adblockers?
This is nothing new in the world of gaming, and to the scale of affecting over 50% of the score of a game for a provision that is often included in other games they have no problem with is what's revealing. A lot of MMOs and many multiplayer games do, but people haven't cried wolf outside of a minority of their community. Pitchford has given his explanation, that it is a matter of the 2K EULA Gearbox has to adopt.
Let’s try this logic on other things. Are all 2K games that have this in their newly updated EULA's being boycotted? Hint: Civilization is a 2K game.
Some things are just obvious when your head is not stuck inside the ass of a circlejerk bandwagon. It's just sad that some people aren't honest with themselves and and are not willing to recognize how easily they are influenced by people who are holding hidden grudges. Too many games are getting shit on because of this, and I say this as someone who is not looking forward to the next Borderlands game until the discounts drop it well below its 80 dollar price tag several years from now while plenty of loud people in this thread will go out to buy it on day one.
I agree they should expand their review protest to all games in the catalog and not selectively review bomb. Consumers have every reason to impact products success through their purchasing power and reviews. I stopped giving my money to game companies I don't like a decade ago. It means missing some games, but there is so much out there it hardly matters. I don't give a shit about this specific controversy, but I do think people have every reason to use their bully pulpit to attempt to impact consumer habits and therefore at least attempt change, even if they are often unsuccessful.
It's probably a common EULA for all games, so they probably added it to carify the terms for some other game that includes it.
So you're an idiot?
People do complain about rootkits, but a reaction on this scale means it might be more fitting for you to reply to the mirror.
You should hold a class on how to insert "woke" into every conversation.
Because of a single comment? No need to hold a class about your criteria.
Lol go home Randy, you're drunk.
... Do you really believe I am Randy Pitchford? Whow, so that's the bar for IQ around these parts ...
Don’t speak I’ll of steam and billionaire Gabe around here. The steam bros are gonna crucify you for daring to even think ill of THEIR corporation and THEIR billionaire who of course loves and cares for them all.
Edit: there it is 🤣
What's Steam got to do with Borderlands 2 having a rootkit?
You're right that it's not Valve they're mad at, buuuuut....
They could regulate that no games they sell can have rootkits and delist the ones that do, as well as offer refunds if a rootkit is patched in in the future. They have lots of rules already, and I don't think that would be a bad one.
That's a nice thought, and they should do that, but you've gotta do better at picking and choosing your moments
I'm not the guy that guy replied to.
Just a random guy who thinks Gabe can put his foot down with these publishers. They already all tried going without Steam and they came crawling back.
So should Walmart stop selling products that I deem unfit based on my personal preferences too? Say goodbye to animal fats, products made in the US, ultra processed foods, some fruit I just don't like the taste of, all Nestlé products...
I think you get the point.
If somebody put strychnine in the guacamole, I'd expect Walmart to remove it from the shelves and offer refunds to anyone that bought it.
If somebody distributed malware through Steam, I'd expect them to stop it also.
Not that there is currently malware in Borderlands 2, but their EULA says they could put it there if they wanted, and there's nothing you could do about it.
As usual, money is the best message. So if they do put it into a game you've paid for, request a refund. If Valve starts losing money, they will change their rules.
Steam refunded me multiple time for game where EULA changed and I disagreed with it. I told them that the EULA changed to include spyware capabilities and I don't agree with the EULA change.
I didnt realize Steam would do that. There have been several times where EULAs changed or malware was added a year or more later and I just assumed I had no recourse.
Dépend on the backslash they get. I have to admit it didn't work each time. Last time I did it was for a psn account requirement added after they sold it
I actually tried this with BL2 last week and got told "no, you've owned it for almost 10 years"
I find it hard to disagree with that notion, but also have a pirated copy with my saves backed up ready to fucking go
Yeah it didn't work each time.I don't remember the specific game, I think they got a huge backslash with some game and I kept asking for refund and telling them I disagree with EULA update which made my game unusable. I am in Europe through, that may have played a rôle
If this was on PSN or the Nintendo shop, everyone downvoting me would be up in arms blaming Sony and Nintendo
But it's not. So don't make up scenarios and then claim persecution when people downvote you.
Making up scenarios and claiming to know what the response would be sure is a way to make an argument.
I mean, the worse most laughable way, but it's a way indeed.
Objection! Speculative
Your mom is wrong. You are not even slightly cool.
This thread makes me wish we could have a discussion community where we exclude Americans. Even the left are nuts over there now. Nothing but name calling and shit slinging. Glad your country is drowning
Hahaha, you killed me. XD You have problem with the default country ?
Cry moar, I'll never see your blocked ass again :-)