Hour 12 of a 15-hour trip emigrating to the UK from the U.S. with a teenager. (OC)
Also, the first class tickets for the train were totally worth it.
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Also, the first class tickets for the train were totally worth it.
Still remember your post months ago asking for advice for moving. I'm happy it worked out for you and your family squid! Hope you guys can settle down soon (I'm sure there's tons of paper work and other bullshit) and relax!
Hasn’t quite worked out yet. I still need to find a job (but I have interviews lined up) We came over a little early because we were worried that when the deportation start, everyone who can grab the first plane they came out of the US. We might never get out otherwise.
good to see you didn't wait to find out, the Berlin wall went up overnight after all.
You've done right by your daughter. Good luck on the job search!
Thanks!
Wish I could help, but I'm not in UK. Nevertheless, I believe in you and keeping my fingers crossed that you find a job quickly.
I am optimistic. Thanks.
The logic is sound. Flights will be snapped up like pandemic loo roll.
That is definitely what I am expecting. Like everything else I am expecting in the next four years, I just hope I'm wrong.
The Nazi salute and the pardoning of all of those January 6th terrorists doesn't give me much hope.
Hey, I'm in the same job hunting boat, but I'm in Norway! Good luck on your job quest 😊❤️
Good luck to you as well!
Even though you are a relative stranger on the internet its really inspiring to see you do this.
Thanks.
Wait, wait, wait, you can not be pulling this shit!
Are you a flying squid or not?
I keep telling people, we can only fly 30 meters at a time.
Plus, Wonder Woman can fly and she has an invisible jet.
At first I read 30 minutes at a time, and was gonna give you crap for not leapfrogging across the pond. It's not that big. The one next to me is bigger :P
I'm impressed she's sleeping. I can't sleep on airplanes no matter what I take.
(the pic in OP is a train)
Ahhh good! That means they've landed, and I understand their exhaustion. :)
I'm impressed, I can't fly 30 meters over multiple times.
Do you not have a biological water jet? What happens if a shark comes swimming up to you?
Land dwellers are weird.
Look man, if I encounter a shark on land, I usually squat down and say 'pspspspspsps' until it starts rubbing it's head against me and I give it lots of pets.
It's foolish to outrun them. They find you.
He's been saying he'd do it.
Squid, proud of you. I did the same but that was 2 years ago
Thank you, but I also think they were joking.
Many would be curious about the path to emigration you took. Have you shared about this anywhere?
I have, but I don’t mind sharing again. Basically, an accident of birth.
https://www.gov.uk/apply-citizenship-british-parent/born-before-1983
I wish I had better news for others.
I'm in the same boat as you already have my citizenship and flying over in October to scope out a few cities and meet up with family and work out paperwork to transfer my job since I'm full time remote and so is my wife.
Good luck!
Thanks you too I very much look forward to hearing about your adventures.
There's a lot of places in Europe that have an 'accident of birth' path to citizenship (jus sanguinis vs jus soli). Here's the ones I found:
Some good info below. If you have no lineage to anywhere in Europe, there are other options depending on your job and education level (not all encompassing, for sure)
If you get hired for a skilled labor job almost always it'll result in a visa
Wow! You weren’t kidding.
I’m so glad you got out, you’re one of my favorites.
Thank you, and likewise!
You've joined a time-honored tradition of fleeing fascist governments. o7
Wow, 1st class, I didn't realize out of context comics paid so well! :)
I'm really impressed with how quickly you've made such a huge life change, that takes some serious courage for you and your family. I would love to follow along behind you, but have no path for it, so I'll have to stick things out and hope for the best (or not worst) here.
I would love it if everyone who wanted to could do that. Especially my trans friends and my daughter's trans friend.
I didn't know if England was the best choice, but right now I think Neptune is probably better than here.
It was my only choice. I have citizenship here. (Technically I am a "British passport holder" until I go to a citizenship ceremony and say God Save the King and I'm not a spy or something, but whatever.)
Better to pledge loyalty to a king who's a figurehead than one with actual power like we have here.
Grats on finally making the move! I hope everything works out for you and that you found a beautiful place to live.
Hey, congrats for taking that big leap, even if it is to the UK (having lived in a couple of places in Europe including over a decade in the UK, my opinion of the UK is pretty low).
It takes a lot of guts to take yourself out of the environment you know (with all it's implicit expectations of "this is how people behave") and move into a different environment were people don't value the same things, expect the same or behave the same.
Good luck!
Thankfully, due to my British father and grandmother, I know some of the basics. But I still have a lot to learn. Thankfully I've got us registered with an NHS clinic (waiting to hear back from them) and just got our new phone numbers.
Wow, you actually did it! I remember you laying out your plan here on Lemmy a few months ago. Kudos to you
Yeah it was a fun journey to watch it all unfold!
Yeah, it's a bit of a headache to figure out all those details if you have nobody to help you, though generally you can figure out a lot of those things by talking to coworkers - as a saying from my country goes "Those who have a mouth can get to Rome"
However the "expectations" I was talking about are more the nitty gritty details of interacting with others in everyday life one isn't really aware are social conventions (because everybody follows the same version of it as you do in your country, so one naturally thinks that's just the way people behave in general) until moving to a different country and finding out those things aren't actually universal.
Things like saying "it's interesting" when an English person asks you your opinion about something is actually being very critical (you can literally use it as an insult), you're supposed to stand on the right side of escalators if you're not walking (especially in a Tube station) or that, unless indicated otherwise, you're supposed to queue for things if there are other people waiting for it.
Figuring this kind of stuff out is actually quiet an interesting personal growth experience, IMHO.
Where do people not line up for something to wait for it?
Often it's more like not respecting the sanctity of the line. Americans got the tradition of the queue from the Brits. It was a source of constant annoyance when I lived in Germany when people would cut the line and others just let them without objecting.
I can't even imagine that being the case in a place like Germany... Some places sure, but there!?
It was 30 years ago, at least. Can't speak to today.
It's pretty common in most countries for things like waiting for the bus to not queue and in some countries people won't even queue when the bus arrives and they're trying to go in, and instead just try and jostle their way in.
Welcome to the UK! Not sure on your final destination, but I'm based in South West England. Please feel free to reach out if you need any help or guidance, especially if you're heading down this way 🙂.
Hey, no crabs are allowed to leave this bucket!
Your human deflated
And she rarely has any punctures.
that's a good quality in offspring
On the other hand, piercings are cool. But she's cool in other ways.
Welcome! You must be hungry after the long trip. Here's a plate of beige, enjoy!
America is a shithole. I got out in '17 and my quality of life has improved tenfold.
Feel free to not answer because this is identifiable info. However, how did you emigrate? Where to? Did you have a family with you or just yourself?
Admittedly, while I think America is a shit hole as well, It's got to get pretty bad before I'll be able to convince my wife. However, I'm trying to plan out our escape plan.
Not who you asked the question to, but I emigrated as well. We are very fortunate to have her mother's side of the family here, so we're living with them at the moment.
Sorting through all our life's possessions and being forced to answer yes or no to 'do we try to move this to our new home overseas' was pretty tough.
The most challenging part was selling the house... We are still sitting on that, sadly. We have a great realtor (I hope), but currently we're jobless and mortgage every month is gouging into our savings.
Thank god video games taught me to hoard funds for the OP items in late game 😅 dwindling fast, but couldn't have done it without them.
Out of curiosity, where from? America is huge and some places are shittier than others.
Ah congrats on the move, squid. We left the US for the EU in December (planned since the summer) and I can't imagine a better choice already. I know you've got a million things going on, and of course job, housing, etc are all top priority, but I have some lighter advice on getting used to a new place.
To meet some people and make some friends, there are lots of volunteer opportunities. It's a fun, helpful, community building way to give a little back.
London has a TON of ex-pats/immigrants. Not that the point is to meet a bunch of Americans or anything, but any you do have left for a reason, so they're more likely to be like minded.
Say "yes" to any bids for connection you can. Even if getting invited to an activity that isn't your jam, if you get an invite, go! It can be lonely at first, and feel like drinking is the only way to meet anyone. But social circles can spread quickly once you get them a little off the ground.
Have fun, and enjoy some piece of mind!
Thanks!
How is the teenager taking it, apart from sleeping on luggage? With leaving behind friends and all that?
She has been an amazing trooper. Other than a breakdown after a really stressful situation where we missed the first train, then got on the wrong train a second time and had to climb up and back down a ton of stairs with our suitcases (understandable at that point) she has really made me proud of her. Especially considering how hard it is for autistic kids dealing with change. We’ll see how she fares tomorrow.
Good luck to both of you! If you would like some help I can reccomend Evan Edinger's videos on his experience migrating to the UK. It may not be useful to a teen though, but he does have a couple videos comparing the UK and US school systems.
Thanks! Always good to have as much research material as possible in these situations.
Sounds like somebody earned themselves a really nice new plush toy or whatever kind of thing it is they like!
At this point (and she's not demanding), I will buy her anything she wants within reason.
I'm both glad you made it out and jealous I don't have a similar history with another country to move to. You're a great parent for everything you do for your daughter. Hope the last bit of the trip went smoothly and you find a job quickly.
Thanks!
Nice now flee to Netherlands. Yes you have to learn Dutch but you can use English in shops or so. Small price to pay to be part of a civilized country
If you decide to do so please bring your own house, we don't have many available at the moment
I have a British passport, not an EU one unfortunately. Also, I barely made it through high school French, so I'm guessing I won't be able to learn Dutch.
In my personal experience, learning Dutch as foreigner can only happen by a method akin to being pushed into the deep end of a wimming pool and learning to swim - in other words, you have to be in a situation were your only option is to know how to speak Dutch - and I say this as somebody who can speak 7 languages (though 2 of them are at a "just getting away with it" level).
That said, most Dutch speak excellent English and even the State (not the local but the central one) and the Banks will communicate with you in English if you want, so people can live in The Netherlands for decades without speaking Dutch (some of my Brit colleagues when I lived over there were like that).
The Netherlands is certainly a far safer place for a lesbian teenager than Britain and will remain so simply because seeing an sexual orientations as absolutely normal happens at the level of Dutch Society itself, to the point that their first large Far Right party was led by a guy who from the start openly admitted to being a homosexual.
Having also lived in Britain I would say they're "complicated" when it comes to tolerance because unlike the Dutch, Brits are big on appearances and judging people, so tolerance its not a natural part of the social posture over there IMHO, whilst gedogen is something the Dutch are actually proud of.
I'm not worried about appearance. She dresses punky like a lot of kids here do. And she's not trans, just a lesbian, so she will be much safer here than the U.S.
The concept of "appearences" I'm talking about is much broader than just how people look, and definitelly covers how people talk and behave.
We're talking about a country were rich people have their very own accent, which is not regional - something which I so far have yet to see anywhere else.
If over there you mix with people who are English middle class or above, you'll see what I mean soon enough.
Only if not by choice.
Well, if you end up working in an office environment most people you will come across consider themselves middle class because they're white collar workers rather than blue collar workers even if (like most other places, it seems) most of the British middle class tend to live paycheck to paycheck same as the working class.
Also who you'll meet in social situations will depend a lot on where you live, since last I checked most city centers in England had become way too expensive for even young white collar workers to live in, much less blue collar ones.
Anyways, in my own experience going to live in other countries, whatever happens will be a good learning experience.
You're not all too far from Hebden Bridge if you settle up them ways anyway. She'll be sound. Best of luck to yous.
That's not true, not excellent English. Many speak enough to get by, except the elderly and the young, and some of them speak it well, fewer still excellently. Over four years, I've met probably a handful at most who could express their deepest thoughts and desires while pronouncing "th" correctly and their As not as Es.
Many banks won't take you in if you don't speak Dutch and it's harder to find a job (this was in the news just recently, as it happens: nearly all international students are struggling in the job market because they generally don't learn Dutch, despite there being so many vacancies). You can definitely get by with English, and I've heard of many people living here decades without learning Dutch too, but if you want to live well, that's another thing altogether.
The good news is Dutch is easy if your mother tongue's English or German but there is indeed a problem in the Randstad of it being hard to convince anyone to let you speak it with them, in part because they often overestimate how well they speak it. There's a relatively famous quote from colonial Indonesia about how the Dutch colonisers would rather speak bad Indonesian than Dutch, which the Indonesians spoke fluently. I think it's like a feedback effect with the reputation they have for knowing second languages.
Anyway, details details.
I lived in The Netherlands for 8 and a half years between the late 90s and the late 00s.
My experience whilst living in The Netherlands was that most people spoke pretty good English in terms of vocabulary, accent aside (which, as I myself am not a native English speaker, was not high on my list of priorities). Certain it qualified as "excellent" compared to people in my homeland (Portugal) back at the time. Then again I mostly knew people who had a higher education qualification so probably more likely to use English at work and follow English-language media. (Note that in my metric, "excellent" is bellow having "fully mastered the language" - basically I meant it as can easilly hold a conversation on common topics. I'm probably falling into the habits I caught when living in Britain and using the word "excellent" to mean what people in other countries think of as "good")
As for the banks dealing with you in English, I still have a bank account with a Dutch bank and they always send me documents in English and still do, even though I don't actually need it anymore. Maybe other banks won't do it by the big ones do.
As for the impact of not knowing Dutch, for job seekers in The Netherlands, in my area - Software Development, which when I moved to The Netherlands I only had 2 years professional experience of doing - that was only a problem for me in the 2 years immediatelly after the Tech bubble crashed in the year 2000, whilst not for the rest of the time I lived there (and as I worked as a freelancer - specifically a contractor - for half of my time in The Netherlands I did change jobs much more often than normal so had quite a lot of experience with it). Can't really speak for how things are now, for areas with less demand for professionals or for people in that hard period of one's career which is trying to get into the work market as a recent graduate with no professional experience.
Also, speaking very good English (as in, better than what I meant by "excellent" in my previous post), I never felt that it helped me in learning Dutch. Agree with the rest that the Dutch tend to reply back in English if they think the other person can understand it, which for me as a Portuguese was seldom a problem whilst for my friends and colleagues from English speaking countries that was commonly a problem (I suspect the difference is because Dutch people couldn't just tell from my accent that I could speak English). My advice for any foreigner stuck in this situation there, is to persist in speaking Dutch even if the other person switches to English.
PS: By the way, my point that being a native English-speaker does not help with learning Dutch is consistent with what I saw with my immigrant work colleagues and friends, were the native English speakers would take longer and not get as far when learning Dutch than those who were not native English speakers. Maybe the Dutch-English works fine but I did not see that happenning the other way around, plus even in my mind my language knowledge has somehow ended up with Dutch and German in the same bucket, English in a totally different bucket, Spanish, Portuguese and Italian in yet another bucket and French also in its own bucket (kinda, as some things are the same as in other Romance languages) - might just be the product of my language learning experience though.
I imagine a lot has changed in that regard anyway, especially with the way mainstream politics has gone in the intervening years, but it does indeed sound like you lived in a bit of a bubble at the time too!
I'm British, and I know the British tendency is to understate rather than overstate, so I don't know how you've landed there!
That's why I expressly mentioned that it was because they don't learn Dutch: so you don't have to wonder if there were any confounding factors at play.
Dutch is easy (a relative term, admittedly) if your mother tongue's English because they're so closely related. Many basic words are either very similar or spelt the same but pronounced differently. Bit like what Spanish is to Portuguese. I think it's quite obvious that native speakers don't learn Dutch quickly, if at all, because they have no one to practise with, and perhaps the idea of switching languages being rude plays a part too. I've met a couple of people who think it's not worth it to learn and none of them were from the Anglosphere.
They do speak English in the Netherlands. Not very good but enough
A civilized country that voted the party of “Trump from Wish.com” into office. The Netherlands is also run by far right fuck nuts, the next four years are going to be very interesting down here below sea level to say the least. Better stay in the UK while labour is in charge.
Also unless you getting that nice expat salary it will be really difficult to find housing in the Netherlands as a fresh of the boat immigrant and you can forget about social housing.
Isn’t dutch harder as german to learn?
Duno
Damn you yanks be rich!
Welcome to our cold rainy island.
Good luck, I hope you and your child find the UK to be less shitty than America. :)
Having emigrated to France with my kids in 2017, I think you're making a good decision.
Was this a similar move as with OP? Meaning you had preexisting ties to the country before moving?
actually no. when don the con got elected the first time, i saved up as much as i could, sold as much stuff as i could and just left. I was illegal in France for a while, but did eventually find a job that was willing to sponsor a visa for me. I had to go back to the states to get my visa issued, though, that took a few weeks. I've been here ever since, and yeah it's fucking hard to leave my family back home in the states, it's honestly much better to live here with my kids than there.
Hey, you made it Squid. Congratulations and welcome to the UK. As I previously said when we’ve been in the same thread, anything you need that I might be able to help with just reach out.
Thanks!
Thanks! In Blackburn in a VRBO at the moment, but I have no idea where we'll end up. Looking for work everywhere I can.
Ah you're just up the road from me. Guessing you changed at Preston? Hopefully you find something soon!
We did indeed change at Preston. And then went everywhere in the station because the lady on the train gave us the wrong directions. After missing the Avanti West Coast train two times and going on the wrong train at Euston once.
Welcome to our little grey rock. It has been a warm winter, but if it gets cold enough to snow in your area then your cultural induction to our society is to endure half of the country shutting down in a panic
Good luck to you and your family, Squid. You took action!
Welcome, glad you could join us! And you have a pot of tea already. Hope settling in goes ok when you arrive.
I was raised on proper English tea by my British father and grandmother. However, I have more recently discovered that British tea is weak-ass shit compared to Irish tea.
Which Irish tea? I switch between Irish/Scottish breakfast teas and Yorkshire.
Also, best of luck in the UK. If you’re looking at IT related jobs, message me. My team may be hiring for Europe.
The one with whiskey
Barry's gold blend is the business IMO.
Barry's is a dammed good cuppa tea, but Yorkshire tea is the English equivalent. God speed, and all the best in your new life. Having just moved my family to the other side of France, I can empathise as to the effort and stress involved in such an endeavour.
We've been drinking Thompson's Punjana at home. I'm hoping I can get some, but there was none in the Morrison's a block away, so I will have to try a different supermarket. I was just going to use Ocado, but you have to have a UK phone number and we are waiting for our eSims. So much to change over.
Thanks!
Welcome to the UK. And if anyone asks, you ain't seen me, right?
Perfect.
Oh wow congratulations. All the best from us left behind! I can't imagine the undertaking to get out and give everyone who has ever emigrated props.
I wish I could take everyone with me!
Good luck, mate.
I just took a look at your post history to see the origin story to this, seems to me you ARE Lemmy?! Every other post I saw seems to be from you...
Yeah, Lemmy is basically just Flying Squid and The_Picard_Maneuver. The rest of us are bots and/or figment of their imagination.
Can confirm. I am a imagination of FlyingSquid.
Welcome to the UK :)
Ugh ... Transatlantic train?
it's a special underwater train especially made for Squids (including Flying ones) and their families 😋
P.S. : Joke aside the title means to say that this is the 12th hour of a 15-hour trip. So this picture is inside a period of 1 hour at the end of the trip.
Best wishes to you Flying Squid 😌
Congrats on getting out of here! Good luck on the future!
I remember seeing the post about you looking for a job there. Congrats on making it out!
I hope y'all can relax soon. I don't regret having left the US years ago; the only hard parts are not being able to see some family much (though Skype and the like help) and certain foods that just don't exist here (less of an issue in the UK than Japan), but copycat recipes can get things close.
The UK just gained several precious people. Good for them!
Lemmy will be okay if you don't keep posting as much as you've been. Do whatever you need to do to set your family up there.
I wish you the best here across the pond. ;)
Good luck!
I wish you all the best. Be sure to stock up on tea when you're settled.
Welcome to Europe! I moved to Germany almost 20 years ago, and holy batflaps am I happy about that choice.
I hope I will be as happy. Thanks!
Me, a German, hoping that comment won't age like milk...
So am I.
You did it!! Good on ya.
my condolences
Coming from the land of no public transportation, it was refreshing.
We have trains! At least they exist
I seriously think airlines are a sham after riding a bunch of trains.
On a train:
Seats are massive. First class wasn't like 5x the ticket price. No charge for luggage. No wack-ass TSA giving you conflicting rules about if you should keep your shoes/belts on or not. You want to rent a room so you can sleep, do it. You wanna jog from one end to another? Sure.
Unfortunately in America, trains don't fully connect to most places. And because of the price, attracts some real skeevos who leave the place a mess. In most other countries, my god. It's beautiful.
I don't disagree but it's really hard to find a train from New York to London.
yeah i find it very irresponsible from OP to not take the train from the US to UK
For some god-forsaken reason, planes are often cheaper
Welcome! Do you have a football team already or are you going to support Bastard Rovers?
I support whatever local football team will not get me beaten up. Otherwise, sport is not my thing.
That would be Blackburn Rovers but that'll get you beaten up by ME!
In all seriousness you'll be fine either way. I do recommend a match, it's a different experience to American sports and it'll be a useful small talk opportunity. Otherwise you'll have to talk about the weather all the time.
Welcome to our side of the pond, friend!
Someone once said that emigrating is trading one set of societal issues for another. If you’re happy with the trade, awesome.
Good luck in your new homeland.
Yes, and I am trading the societal issue of possibly having my daughter tortured for being queer for the one of that not happening.
That is a valid choice.
Welcome! Hopefully once you're settled you'll be able to find a local pub that does a good sunday roast
The closest pub here is called, I kid you not, The Spread Eagle. I haven't been yet but how can I not?
Holy shit please go and post your thoughts xD
There's at least 3 of them in the UK, we're funny that way.
France has one called The Queens Legs, because of the old joke... "can't wait until it opens so I can get a drink!"
Isn't the UK Distopian in other bad ways? Like insane government surveillance and monitoring
We have our problems, but we haven’t just voted a literal fascist into power so we’ve got that going for us
True that
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A
[Edit] Most countries have pretty bad surveillance. America is unique in projecting bad things on other countries without having any self reflection.
https://aithority.com/news/top-10-countries-and-cities-by-number-of-cctv-cameras/
https://archive.is/2wN7a (Archived copy)
The UK isn't great, but its not really an outlier compared to anywhere else.
In fact
You know what it doesn't have? People in power wanting to put queer people in conversion therapy or oppress them in other ways. Which is the main reason we moved.
My daughter isn't trans, she's a lesbian, but they won't stop with trans people. They want to erase queerness in America.
This is true. And right now, at least for the next two years, they have every bit of conceivable power there is. The President, the Senate, the House, the Supreme Court. There are no checks and balances of Donald Trump.
Ohh that's a rough ass flight for a teen :) good luck over there!
Unmarried up and learned the same thing about the fancy tickets. Travel less often, and also don't hate it as much.
I'll tell you when I'm less exhausted myself.