Privileged people do get an exception - they can afford to fly to another state for an abortion.
People like this think they're part of the in group because they're white or christian, but the only war is class war. To our rulers we're all the enemy.
My fucking Trumpy brother in law has this attitude. He lives in the south, votes for Trump, and has a wife, two daughters, and a son. His wife has had a couple of complicated pregnancies that, had they happened now in the place they currently live, could well have resulted in her death. His attitude when asked 'what if one of your daughters gets raped?' is to say he can just fly her somewhere else to get an abortion, because he has money. Fuck you, dude.
These are people who don't want rights, they want privileges. They don't want equality, they want hierarchy. They can't say "gimme gimme", they say "take America back".
From who? Americans. They want to take what you have. Now that Republicans control the Federal Government they will start to take from each other.
This literally happened during the first Trump administration. Does no Trump supporter remember how they all fought for attention and sucked so badly?
Four legs good, two legs bad. And if I remember correctly, there was an amendment for ducks/chickens/etc to be good. Haven't read that book in like 35 years.
I remember the hilarious part where they all campaigned for years on "repealing Obamacare". Then they had House and Senate majorities + the Presidency, and guess what didn't get repealed?
It was like that silly video where a dog is barking viciously at another dog, looks super serious and mean, and then the barrier between them is removed and they both act real cool immediately. Then, barrier back in, vicious barking again...
I remember the hilarious part where they all campaigned for years on "repealing Obamacare". Then they had House and Senate majorities + the Presidency, and guess what didn't get repealed?
For a while, there were a surprising amount of people who wanted to repeal Obamacare, but keep the Affordable Care Act.
Letting it be called Obamacare was probably a misstep for his administration. It'd likely be less disliked if it wasn't tied to his name, and they went with something like "Americare: Because America Cares for you".
Worked pretty great. Of course part of the ratfucking they did was to cripple the actual legislation, too, not just the image of it, so it doesn't work nearly as well as it should.
So now they have to vote in Congress to keep a thing people need but which they themselves made much crappier, while also being expected to scream about wanting to get rid of it altogether, while also being unable to make any useful changes to the legislation at all. And this is on healthcare, probably the most directly impactful issue faced by their actual voter base.
Messaging and propaganda are seriously like game-breaking IRL exploits.
I hear you, but their messaging was going to be their messaging, and it was going to be effective and adopted by their base. No one "let it be called Obamacare", that was strictly Republican, and very deliberate. There was never a point when the GOP was gonna just allow a massive popular win by the other side, they were always gonna ratfuck it every way possible, do everything they could to make it unpopular.
Associating it with scary brown guy was pretty much inevitable, I can't put even a piece of the blame on the folks who fought for that legislation to be passed.
There's a reason they're so threatened by words like equity and inclusion. When the culture of your ancestors was based on exclusionary hierarchies it can be very hard to embrace all people as equal, even if that is a fabled part of the American ethos (on paper, not in practice).
Yeah, if you can get a MAGAt to be honest with you, at some point, the core of what they want comes down to, "I support Trump because I want people who are different than me to have more misery in their life than I do."
If that means taking on some extra misery themselves, be so be it, as long as it's even worse for them.
Texas also has many local abortion travel bans so you can be punished for using their roads while going to the other states if you can't afford to fly over them.
I love that they referred her to an anti-abortion crisis center, because there's a 99% chance they'll just tell her the same "pro-life" garbage she's been spewing and send her ass home.
I really do hate myself for a lack of sympathy in this situation, but these people need to experience what they’re doing to everyone else.
What’s sad is that people who agree with her won’t see the threat to her life as a valid reason either. They don’t know her so they don’t care for her. They’ll lump her in with the people they torment outside of Planned Parenthood regularly.
Just another woman who spread her legs and is too cowardly to accept the will of god.
I’ll be honest, I’m burned out. I need a break from morons and their stories. I really do.
I have accepted that two things can be trust at once: I can be sad for her and amused at the leopard eating her face. I have no problem containing both of those emotions at the same time without hating myself one ounce.
I'm not sad for her, but more for the brutal response she got at the end of the article. That's how they treat everyone that comes to them with issues like that.
I've given up on being sympathetic for people who actively try to put these things in place. Like, I'm just jaded now. You voted for this. Congratulations, if this is fatal for your stupid decisions, that's on you. I'm sympathetic to the people with brains who knew this would happen, those people get my sympathy and caring.
It's been estimated that there were at least 232k preventable deaths because people didn't get vaccinated. That doesn't include people who suffered permanent damage or long-COVID.
I’ll be honest, I’m burned out. I need a break from morons and their stories. I really do.
You need to stop going out of your way to doomscroll on social media, then. It's ultimately entirely in your power to not be exposed to them.
I'm being serious. It's not good for you--social media makes it extremely easy to be exposed to negativity 24/7 if you're looking for it, since you're 1 person in a world of over 8 billion. You don't have to get even close to 1% of the people being assholes, for this to be not only possible, but trivially easy.
The human psyche is literally not designed to withstand the kind of barrage technology has made possible. Please do not feel guilty about giving yourself a break at times, to say the very least.
Thanks for this (I'm not the op). While I tend to agree that doomscrolling doesn't help my mental health, I'm not sure how to square burying my head in the sand vs not paying attention to the crazy shit going on.
I don't expect an answer or anything, just venting. I feel powerless and my taxes are apparently going to fund a concentration camp.
Don't worry, they're all gonna feel the pain when the plans for tariffs, deportations, and budget cuts are implemented and everything costs more (so much is imported and no Americans are going to pick crops) and everyone has less money (they're looking at benefits, VA, and federal employment cuts). Maybe they'll cry He’s not hurting the people he needs to be hurting. but my hope is they learn who to never elect again at all levels of government.
It's going to be a rough 2 years until the midterms when we flip one of the chambers of Congress and stop any more insanity, but we'll survive. And if we do what we can, we'll get back what's ours and then some in 4 years.
80% white. 40% with a high school education or less.
In 2022, over 100 anti-vaccination protesters rallied at the state Capitol against health director Donald Kauerauf's confirmation, despite his opposition to mask and vaccine mandates. Protesters displayed signs reading "God-given natural immunity" and "We're not guinea pigs."
In 2024, House Bill 1424 was introduced to prohibit COVID-19 vaccination requirements for transportation access. Missouri Senators Josh Hawley and Eric Schmitt co-sponsored federal legislation to ban mask mandates through 2024.
Nutpicking. For every "Haha! Instant Karma! Suck it, idiots!" front page circle jerk, a thousand conservatives will get abortions under the table without a problem.
You've got to go two years back on this shit because its ultimately the exception, not the rule.
Judging her type if I had to place a bet the next thing she's gonna do is trying to sue the next best (probably innocent) person for the biggest bullshit reasons just to feel better. (And maybe go to a more liberal state to get an abortion)
I wonder if it was more an assumption that the rules only applied to viable pregnancies.
I mean I'm pro-choice but I'd assume anyone pushing to ban abortion is aiming to prevent viable pregnancies from being terminated while still allowing medically necessary or unviable pregnancies to be terminated.
"Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect."
Targeted for decades, just now finishing the job with singling out option for education to only vouchers to religious schools. Even then, they will slowly decrease value of vouchers so eventually you are out of pocket for a poor quality education and religious indoctrination as cherry on top.
"then connected Farmer with an anti-abortion crisis pregnancy center in the state"
I can imagine how that conversation went: "I know its risking not only your reproductive organs, but also your life. However, have you considered carrying the child to term so she can die in your arms shortly afterward so you can 'pwn the libs'? Think about their tears!"
Absolutely agreed - her situation is a shit one, and I hope she learned her lesson. She chose her journey, though, in the face of all the contrary evidence.
I wouldn’t be so sure. She has since appeared in a campaign ad with the democratic Missouri senator candidate in the 2022 midterms, moved out of Missouri, and sued the hospital in Kansas for denying care under the EMTALA. Her opinion piece on CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/27/opinions/emtala-scotus-ruling-emergency-abortion-idaho-farmer/index.html) is particularly harrowing in describing her experience and advocates for federal abortion rights.
Well good for her for changing her mind. It's easy to laugh at people like her but I think we need to have more compassion for these people. All the spiteful people on this website often make me more mad than these dipshit republicans.
I had a lot of shitty views indoctrinated into me during my upbringing and it's taken me years of self work and reflection to become the leftist I am today. My growth didn't happen because people made fun of me, it happened because a close friend of mine cared about me and wanted me to become a better person.
tl;dr: laughing at republicans solves nothing and just makes you feel good about yourself, which is not a horrible thing in itself but something more leftists need to be aware of imo.
The democratic party is a completely different discussion. Dems didn't lose because they're too nice to play dirty, they lost because they couldn't even pretend to give a shit about regular folk and the problems that face them. They have no morals or convictions and are perfectly happy letting the republicans win if the alternative means fighting against corporate interests.
We need to treat conservatives the same way we treat dumb children. We use a firm hand, we dominate them with simple, strong language they understand
This is attitude is basically what I'm talking about. You will not convince people by patronizing them, or treating them like children. You have to treat them with respect, actually listen to their problems, and try to explain how leftist policies can solve those problems, while someone like Trump (or even Harris) cannot.
Many right leaning voters view liberals and leftists as academic elitists who have no concept of what their lives are like, and in many ways they are right. Treating them like children will just reinforce that belief and push them further to the right.
Not everyone can be convinced, but if we want to stop this horrific slide towards fascism we need to get serious about educating the masses on leftist beliefs and deprogram all the fascist neo-liberal propaganda they've been fed all their lives.
Not too long ago I was a neo-liberal, and I sure as hell didn't change my perspective by reading patronizing comments online. I happened to start watching a black youtube creator (FD signifier) who explains concepts like white supremacy, the patriarchy, and capitalism without being hostile or patronizing to viewers who disagree with him. He gave me a way out of that line of thinking that minimized my feelings of shame from having been so ignorant.
I'm not going to pretend to know what the average person should do to combat misinformation but I can tell you with certainty that treating people who disagree with you like children, or patronizing them in any way is simply not an effective at changing their minds.
By all means make fun of trump, fascists, etc, but if you're not prepared to calmly explain why these people are bad, people will just think you're saying it because you want "your team" to win.
The most fucked up thing about most Leopards Ate My Face types is that the leopard always eats someone else’s face first. This smug turd-lady voted for years to punish everyone she didn’t like. I feel sorry for what a hateful human she is
This may get downdooted to oblivion, but I think some of this is human nature. It is abhorrent, and something we need to strive to fix, but it is rather natural for people to think that their own situation is typical -- because for them, it is. Every exemplar that a privileged person will have is also a privileged exemplar -- until, of course, something like this happens.
And as a further consequence, it is extremely difficult to convince someone that their personal situation is not the norm. Everyone wants to be the main character and ultimately believes that they are.
Oh, I'm not trying to make excuses. Though I can appreciate that it looks like that.
But how do we restrict the stupid people? If we agree that every human gets to take part, then it follows that the stupid will be voting.
I don't think a litmus test is the answer, since they are extremely easy to misuse. Why not say only landowners should vote? How about only veterans? It's a dangerous path.
It's a dangerous path, but does that mean we shouldn't consider it? Like when you vote you have to correctly identify your candidate's policies. Or you have to answer some moral question like "rich people are rich because they are in some way inherently better". Or if you vote anti choice you're informed "selecting this candidate waives all natal care that may end your fetus' life including termination of an unviable fetus to save your life, sign your name if you waive your medical rights" if they refuse to sign - your vote don't count. But a lot of folks are too dumb to get a say in this shit right now. I think the dumbing down of America is 100% orchestrated and intentional, but we need to fix our dumbness for a few generations and get a good level set of "not being a fucking dipshit" before we can trust the random person on the street has more common sense than a bag of mismatched socks.
Or if you vote anti choice you're informed "selecting this candidate waives all natal care that may end your fetus' life including termination of an unviable fetus to save your life, sign your name if you waive your medical rights" if they refuse to sign - your vote don't count.
Even then, that may not work, since people are inclined to think "that's basically an impossibility, or would only happen if you're under the influence, or old, it could never happen to me".
I should be surprised if Farmer expected that she would need abortion care when she voted against it. She likely only realised she would when she found out her pregnancy was non-viable, and tried to get abortion care
Gather a handful of random people from your neighborhood and try to decide where to go for lunch. Now, make it several hundred million people from everywhere and have them come up with the definition of "stupid".
Why put it all on the stupid people? It’s at least as much a problem with people not being accountable for their words, the death of objective and traditional media, the loss of distinction between news and opinion.
The problem with Trump being elected is not just the stupid people who thought that was a good idea but the things he can get away with saying, lack of trusted reporting or fact checking.
I guess instead of reading a few books, we'll all just have to make the same mistakes that we've already made, again, in order to learn anything... Yeah sure, dude, let's start making people take tests before they can vote. What could go wrong?
We need everyone to read more books. A wide variety of stories on a wide variety of topics by a wide variety of authors, all with different backgrounds and ideas. We must read stories that let us temporarily step into the mind and experiences of other people, who aren't us, to train our brains the ability to understand the plights of others. Books of human stories, as opposed to movies, doom-scrolling TikTok, etc., seems uniquely suited for this kind of training of empathy, because the stories are executed inside our own brains.
I'm willing to bet that these why-are-the-leopards-suddenly-eating-my-face? the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion type people have read distinctly less, or at least far less varied, stories than us who look at them and wonder how it is possible to be so unable to put themselves in the shoes of anyone but themselves.
This is an explanation of human perception and behaviour, there is nothing controversial about it and easily understood. It is also true that if you stick someone in a creepy haunted house they will naturally feel scared even though it's Halloween and it's perfectly safe. The issue is not that humans have these natural tendencies that lead to logical fallacies, the issue is that humans have the capacity to be meta aware of them, process them, and situate them appropriately--skills developed through education and practice/experience--yet we have sociopolitocal movements that encourage the opposite for the benefit of the rich and powerful.
I don't think it's more human mature than the opposite is.
Most of us are capable of reasoning and of empathy. We can hear a doctor say "there's cases where it's necessary" and think "yeah, makes sense" or "I trust their expertise".
Not being able to see past oneself seems like a very limited view. There's reasons for that of course. but it's a failure of education and social surroundings. And it's not inherent.
I get your point, but i think people are not consistent with this. Who gets or doesnt get sympathy is entirely emotional.
Ive had people say that refugees are at fault for not getting their papers in order in time and shut be deportet over it and then go on to talk about how for them as citizens it is impossible with the low staffed and inefficient government offices these days.
They willfully ignore that their problems with the bureaucracy could exist for other people too. And we are not even talking about acknowledgong it to be worse. Just simply transferring their life experience onto other people like you describe.
Kristen Bell; she and her, now husband, Dax Woods made one of my favorite movies. Hit and Run. It's a car chase and road trip movie that is also left wing. Mostly a guy's movie, but homosexuality is dealt with grace and humor. It's really funny and smart. My fifteen year old son loved it. Positive masculinity is shown.
It's a sad reality that most pro-life stance people don't understand that most pro-choice people are also pro-life. It certainly doesn't help that some extremists rant loudly about 9th month abortions. But a lot of people who don't like the idea of abortion still understand the need for it, both medical and otherwise, and believe the decision should rest with the parent and doctor, not the government. If there was more open an honest communication then there probably wouldn't be as many single-issue voters voting Republican because of this issue.
There are few situations where I would choose abortion, however if my wife or daughter needed an abortion for whatever reason, I'd want it to be legally available from a qualified healthcare provider with minimal wait time. This business of having to leave the state/country to get an abortion is fucking ridiculous.
Exactly. I thought I was pro-life years ago because I personally wouldn't consider an abortion outside of medical issues. But I also didn't presume to make decisions for other people. It took a friend explaining to me that my position makes me pro-choice for me to understand. The Republicans have done a good job of framing the pro-choice stance as wanting to kill babies, and the pro-choice people haven't done a good job explaining that it's not.
If she waited it out, she and the fetus could suffer tremendously. “The thing [a doctor] said was, ‘There are things worse than death, and I have seen it,’” Farmer recounted.
Damn. Feels like it could be a good quote to oppose anti-abortion.
The poor dear has learned the consequences of voting against her interests far too late. I laughed, but at the same time I'm worried about those who voted in their interests and got fucked over.
This is just like COVID. "Do the bare minimum by staying home and social distancing to save those who cannot fight this fight." And they all said, "fuck that, I have a TV in 4K but watching church services on it just doesn't fill me with the holy spirit! Imma risk it!" And then proceed to make the pandemic worse than it had to be while adding another god damned fucking wedge issue into the mix of other wedge issues drummed up by the GOP and ultra wealthy.
She probably still believes all the bullshit too. "too many women are just getting post birth abortions for the funsies" Just the fakest stupidest lies.
[Scene opens on a wide, desolate savanna at dusk. The camera slowly pans over a leopard lying under a tree, its large body barely able to move. The sun is setting, casting a cold, dim light over the scene. Soft wind rustles through the dry grass. The leopard’s eyes are dull, its breathing labored.]
Narrator (soft, somber voice):
In the wild, leopards are meant to stalk, to hunt, to climb. But for some, this is no longer possible. These are the leopards of the forgotten savanna... the ones who can no longer live the life they were born to lead.
[Cut to a close-up of another leopard, this one lying next to a watering hole, panting heavily. The camera lingers on its enormous, bloated body, its paws barely able to reach the ground. The leopard’s eyes seem vacant, devoid of the wild spark they once had.]
Narrator:
Overfed and unable to move, these leopards have been left to a slow, painful existence. They can no longer hunt their prey, no longer climb the trees to escape danger, no longer feel the thrill of the chase. They are trapped in their own bodies.
[Cue the soft, mournful opening chords of "Angel" by Sarah McLachlan. The camera slowly pans over a third leopard, sluggishly trying to rise, but its massive weight prevents it from standing. It lets out a heavy sigh, its once-strong legs buckling beneath it.]
Narrator:
They are the forgotten victims of a world that has abandoned them. Too fat to run, too weak to fight... These leopards are slowly fading, one breath at a time. They need your help.
[Cut to a shot of a leopard staring out over the savanna. The camera lingers on its face, eyes half-closed, its expression one of quiet resignation.]
Narrator:
For just $3 a day, you can provide the care and support these leopards so desperately need. A donation will help give them the chance to live a life of dignity. Help them find their way back to the wild they were meant to roam.
[The music swells as the camera fades to black, and the words "Your donation can make a difference" appear in white text on the screen.]
Narrator (whispering):
Please, don’t let them suffer in silence. The time to act is now.
[The music fades out, and the SPCA logo appears in the corner, along with a toll-free number and website for donations.]
Now I do know and understand the risks along with what is involved with a hysterectomy, but her age along with her political stance brings some questions.
With her being 'mostly pro-life'... Was she against contraception? Did she get pregnant on purpose? Did she know the level of risk to the mother and fetus with a pregnancy after 40? She said she was worried about losing her uterus... Was she wanting to get pregnant again? Did she know she's just around the corner from menopause? Being around her age, the option for freezing one's eggs can be a viable option, especially with the possibility of needing a hysterectomy. Would she be against a surrogate pregnancy?
If her pregnancy was such a health risk she should have taken personal responsibility and not had intercourse with any man who has not had a vasectomy.
This just shows her moral turpitude and adds to the argument that women shouldn’t even be able to vote!!!
::: spoiler Tap for spoiler
If you thought I was serious you need to go touch grass.
:::
We may well be talking about someone who received inadequate sexual/reproductive education. Typically the only sex-ed the pulpit provides is "pro-life" propaganda.
I didn't mean to imply her mind was or wasn't changed. I meant that if it was, I'm unwilling to condemn her. If I knew it wasn't I might be willing to condemn her. Not knowing whether she changed her mind after, I wouldn't be willing to condemn her without equivocation.
Then why did she know to seek abortion care? True ignorance would mean dying during a miscarriage because you don't know what's happening and not seeking medical care.
It's likely her doctor told her she needed a DNC or something (without using the word "abortion") and the patient didn't realize the state laws would consider that an (gasp) "abortion" until the doctor told her so.
"At the time of the discussion, Farmer was medically stable, with some vaginal bleeding that was not heavy.
“Therefore contrary to the most appropriate management based (sic) my medical opinion, due to the legal language of MO law, we are unable to offer induction of labor at this time,” the report quotes the specialist as saying."
So yes, the law did prevent an abortion and endangered her life.
She is suing because she expected an exception for herself.
It wasn't just getting sued. Your healthcare provider would face a class B felony and likely revocation of their license prior to amendment 3 passing.
Missouri faces the nation's fourth-largest shortage of healthcare professionals, with 111 of 114 counties designated as health professional shortage areas. The state projects a deficit of 3,102 doctors by 2030, including 687 primary care providers. Hospital staffing remains strained, with a 17.4% vacancy rate for registered nurses, representing 6,982 unfilled positions. The crisis is compounded by Missouri exporting one-third of medical students to out-of-state residency programs.
It's not good business for a portion of your workforce to end up in prison when you're already in a shortage area.
It still matters because the Federal courts can set precedent that the Federal law (obviously, that's how Federalism works) overrides state abortion bans.
It would be cool if she won, but I don't think she will. Super easy to argue that her circumstances had not yet reached the level of "medical emergency".
Doctors told her she would be unlikely to carry the child to term, and doing so increased her chances of infection or other severe outcome.
When the law is a witch hunt not based on science, doctors cannot operate based on their best judgement based on science. Real issues of "unlikely" and "increased her chances" aren't the same things as immediate medical emergency: they prevent an immediate medical emergency. Any law restricting abortions to when they are "medically necessary" will always lead to cases where its denied until its immediately medically necessary, at which point it may be too late. This is a clear-cut example of what such laws will always do and doctors being forced to tiptoe around the feelings of fanatics instead of being able to practice medicine.
federal EMTALA requirements have not changed, and continue to require that healthcare professionals offer treatment, including abortion care, that the provider reasonably determines is necessary to stabilize the patient’s emergency medical condition
At the time of the discussion, Farmer was medically stable, with some vaginal bleeding that was not heavy.
Sounds like she was not experiencing an emergency medical condition that would have required stabilization. It could have become more severe, which explains why conventional care would have been abortion, but it was not, at the moment of presentation.
Sure would be nice if they would just let the physicians practice medicine, without having to second guess which law takes precedence.
That's a misinterpretation of EMTALA and the words of the HHS secretary.
They didn't say that they would protect providers who perform abortions. They said they would seek civil punishment for those that do not. That's very different from providing protection.
It could be very easily argued that "could deteriorate rapidly" is not a medical emergency, and therefore does not meet the requirements of the MO or federal laws to allow for inducing labor or abortion.
Given the overzealous rhetoric from state officials, I understand the hospital and doctor's reluctance to provide care. We are fucking ourselves.
This is not a medical error. EMTALA is not a protective law for healthcare facilities or professionals. The state can still prosecute based on their own laws, and in Texas, for example, performing an abortion can come with a lifetime sentence.
From the medical provider and hospitals standpoint, you are now stuck between a rock and a hard place. Perform an abortion and face criminal charges from the state or refrain and face civil charges from the fed.
If you had the choice to face a criminal charge (prison sentence) or a civil charge (fine), which would you pick?
Texas law imposes severe criminal penalties for performing abortions. Medical professionals who perform abortions face first-degree felony charges punishable by five years to life in prison if the procedure results in fetal death. Attempting or inducing an abortion is a second-degree felony, carrying two to 20 years imprisonment. Additionally, providers face minimum civil penalties of $100,000 per violation and mandatory revocation of their medical license.
Which federal law are you referring to? EMTALA does not supersede state law, nor does it prevent the state from pursuing criminal charges for abortion.
It's unrealistic to expect a significant number of doctors to throw away their livelihoods and go to prison to prove a legal threat. Doctors are being advised by risk management divisions of the hospital to not even consider abortions in these cases (in certain states) because it means saying goodbye to your practice, your savings, and your family.
Texas successfully challenged EMTALA's application to abortion cases through a lawsuit in 2022. The 5th Circuit Court ruled that EMTALA does not mandate abortion care or override state law. Texas became the only state exempt from federal emergency care requirements for pregnant patients. Under Texas law, abortion is only permitted for "risk of death" rather than EMTALA's broader "serious jeopardy" to health standard
Tuesday’s ruling, authored by Judge Kurt D. Engelhardt, said the court “decline[d] to expand the scope of EMTALA.”
“We agree with the district court that EMTALA does not provide an unqualified right for the pregnant mother to abort her child,” Englehardt wrote. “EMTALA does not mandate medical treatments, let alone abortion care, nor does it preempt Texas law.”
EMTALA supercedes state law because it is federal law. This is standard legal doctrine.
Texas disagrees. Please see above source.
Nobody has been prosecuted for performing an abortion since the Dobbs decision. Hundreds of abortions have happened in Missouri since Dobbs, and nobody has been prosecuted there.
No one's going to risk their livelihood on precedent. While legal precedent is important, it doesn't provide meaningful reassurance when the stakes are this high.
Yeah but I can't blame the doctors for refusing, when in doubt a right wing jury without medical training will decide if it was an emergency or not, and your freedom depends on their verdict.
There’s no guarantee they will be charged is not the same as there is a guarantee they will not be charged. And that is the issue, the hospitals were directly threatened by republicans with jail time, and contradictory statements, as proof when she reached out to get clarification from the governor even he noped out when it mattered. Also remember that the doctors do not run the hospital, administrators and bean counters do.
There only has to be the threat. Because as long as hospitals are afraid to perform abortions the republicans win… well “win” in this case. We are just people arguing could have should have, when the hospital doctors recommended it, but the hospital with their lawyers and the fact they have been doing this as a profession was not as convinced as you seem to be.
Besides, is your argument the hospital was out to kill this lady specifically?
Doctors swear an oath, "first, do no harm." So yes we can blame the doctors!
Doctors are supposed to behave ethically regardless of the law. This is not a new thing! Doctors providing appropriate treatment despite the law is a very fucking long tradition in medicine.
What defines a medical emergency in rhe eyes of the law? How many hospitals are going to perform an abortion they deem a medical emergency only to be potentially sued by an AG who disagrees that it was medically necessary?
What hospital is going to test the boundaries of what immediate or imminent risk to life in the eyes of the law? Especially with any government official salivating at the chance to punish any abortion care.
It's not even close to the same. Abortion laws shouldn't exist in the first place. The decision should be left up to the woman alone. All this law is doing is making providers worry about the consequences of performing one. A law against theft deters theft.... There is a purpose to that.
If a fetus is a “blob,” so are born babies, children, and adults.
No, those are fully formed individuals that can survive on their own if separated from the mother. The fetus is surviving off it's mother's body. Stealing her nutrients. The only thing separating it from fitting the definition of a parasite is the "different species" caveat.
If she received immediate care, she would no longer be at risk. In the same way if you take drugs for high cholesterol, you will no longer be at risk for a heart attack.
Stopping risk is preventative care, not an immediate life threat.
Literally the Republican Way™©®
It disgusts me to no end. "It's wrong and should be punished until it happens to me!"
Saving this! Who knows when it might come in handy…
Privileged people do get an exception - they can afford to fly to another state for an abortion.
People like this think they're part of the in group because they're white or christian, but the only war is class war. To our rulers we're all the enemy.
My fucking Trumpy brother in law has this attitude. He lives in the south, votes for Trump, and has a wife, two daughters, and a son. His wife has had a couple of complicated pregnancies that, had they happened now in the place they currently live, could well have resulted in her death. His attitude when asked 'what if one of your daughters gets raped?' is to say he can just fly her somewhere else to get an abortion, because he has money. Fuck you, dude.
These are people who don't want rights, they want privileges. They don't want equality, they want hierarchy. They can't say "gimme gimme", they say "take America back".
From who? Americans. They want to take what you have. Now that Republicans control the Federal Government they will start to take from each other.
This literally happened during the first Trump administration. Does no Trump supporter remember how they all fought for attention and sucked so badly?
All animals are equal but some are more equal.
Two legs good, four legs bad.
Edit: actually think I got that backwards.
Four legs good, two legs bad. And if I remember correctly, there was an amendment for ducks/chickens/etc to be good. Haven't read that book in like 35 years.
Lol where do geese stand?
Wherever the fuck they want.
This made me laugh a bit harder than expected lol, you're absolutely right.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_pwPhFvgNo
They also poop wherever the fuck they want. Geese staying in place rather than migrating make so many lawns unusable
Right between me and the goddamn tree I want to read under.
I remember the hilarious part where they all campaigned for years on "repealing Obamacare". Then they had House and Senate majorities + the Presidency, and guess what didn't get repealed?
It was like that silly video where a dog is barking viciously at another dog, looks super serious and mean, and then the barrier between them is removed and they both act real cool immediately. Then, barrier back in, vicious barking again...
2016 - It will be so easy, it's the worst law in history. We're going to repeal and replace it in the first week.
2024 - I have concepts of a plan.
How fucking dumb is half the country... At least that fucking dumb.
Really really fucking dumb.
So dumb I can't help but wonder where I'm that blind
I like to think that they’re all just non-voting leftists - it helps get me through the day.
For a while, there were a surprising amount of people who wanted to repeal Obamacare, but keep the Affordable Care Act.
Letting it be called Obamacare was probably a misstep for his administration. It'd likely be less disliked if it wasn't tied to his name, and they went with something like "Americare: Because America Cares for you".
Republicans are the ones that nicknamed it that, to try to make their supporters hate it as much as a Black man, even if it hurts them.
Worked pretty great. Of course part of the ratfucking they did was to cripple the actual legislation, too, not just the image of it, so it doesn't work nearly as well as it should.
So now they have to vote in Congress to keep a thing people need but which they themselves made much crappier, while also being expected to scream about wanting to get rid of it altogether, while also being unable to make any useful changes to the legislation at all. And this is on healthcare, probably the most directly impactful issue faced by their actual voter base.
Messaging and propaganda are seriously like game-breaking IRL exploits.
I hear you, but their messaging was going to be their messaging, and it was going to be effective and adopted by their base. No one "let it be called Obamacare", that was strictly Republican, and very deliberate. There was never a point when the GOP was gonna just allow a massive popular win by the other side, they were always gonna ratfuck it every way possible, do everything they could to make it unpopular.
Associating it with scary brown guy was pretty much inevitable, I can't put even a piece of the blame on the folks who fought for that legislation to be passed.
I'm putting that first line in my pocket and gonna use it often. Thanks
There's a reason they're so threatened by words like equity and inclusion. When the culture of your ancestors was based on exclusionary hierarchies it can be very hard to embrace all people as equal, even if that is a fabled part of the American ethos (on paper, not in practice).
Yeah, if you can get a MAGAt to be honest with you, at some point, the core of what they want comes down to, "I support Trump because I want people who are different than me to have more misery in their life than I do."
If that means taking on some extra misery themselves, be so be it, as long as it's even worse for them.
It's a sad type of cruelty.
Many states put a bounty on anyone found to be helping someone travel out of state to get an abortion.
States specifically target liberal groups for harassment and penalty. Conservative physicians will be ignored.
The point of these witch hunts is to torment opposition groups.
It's two birds with one stone....
I know Texas does this, but do other states?
Texas also has many local abortion travel bans so you can be punished for using their roads while going to the other states if you can't afford to fly over them.
I love that they referred her to an anti-abortion crisis center, because there's a 99% chance they'll just tell her the same "pro-life" garbage she's been spewing and send her ass home.
Remember, God makes no mistakes 🤗
I really do hate myself for a lack of sympathy in this situation, but these people need to experience what they’re doing to everyone else.
What’s sad is that people who agree with her won’t see the threat to her life as a valid reason either. They don’t know her so they don’t care for her. They’ll lump her in with the people they torment outside of Planned Parenthood regularly.
Just another woman who spread her legs and is too cowardly to accept the will of god.
I’ll be honest, I’m burned out. I need a break from morons and their stories. I really do.
I have accepted that two things can be trust at once: I can be sad for her and amused at the leopard eating her face. I have no problem containing both of those emotions at the same time without hating myself one ounce.
She is the leopard eating her face. I see no reason to be sad. She is dying for her beliefs, a martyr.
It wasn't part of her plan but (her) God chose her for this. We should she be happy. She should be happy. This is (her) God's will.
I'm not sad for her, but more for the brutal response she got at the end of the article. That's how they treat everyone that comes to them with issues like that.
She wanted that too.
Not for herself, of course, but anyone else.
I've given up on being sympathetic for people who actively try to put these things in place. Like, I'm just jaded now. You voted for this. Congratulations, if this is fatal for your stupid decisions, that's on you. I'm sympathetic to the people with brains who knew this would happen, those people get my sympathy and caring.
I felt similar about people asking for the vaccine right before they went on the ventilator. Something like 3m people in the US died from Covid.
It's been estimated that there were at least 232k preventable deaths because people didn't get vaccinated. That doesn't include people who suffered permanent damage or long-COVID.
Sometimes people have to get hurt before they learn a lesson.
Sometimes that won't even work. Maybe just a little cognitive dissonance.
Don’t feel bad. Everyone has limits. At some point you have to worry about yourself and those around you.
You need to stop going out of your way to doomscroll on social media, then. It's ultimately entirely in your power to not be exposed to them.
I'm being serious. It's not good for you--social media makes it extremely easy to be exposed to negativity 24/7 if you're looking for it, since you're 1 person in a world of over 8 billion. You don't have to get even close to 1% of the people being assholes, for this to be not only possible, but trivially easy.
The human psyche is literally not designed to withstand the kind of barrage technology has made possible. Please do not feel guilty about giving yourself a break at times, to say the very least.
Thanks for this (I'm not the op). While I tend to agree that doomscrolling doesn't help my mental health, I'm not sure how to square burying my head in the sand vs not paying attention to the crazy shit going on.
I don't expect an answer or anything, just venting. I feel powerless and my taxes are apparently going to fund a concentration camp.
RSS feeds or
Don't worry, they're all gonna feel the pain when the plans for tariffs, deportations, and budget cuts are implemented and everything costs more (so much is imported and no Americans are going to pick crops) and everyone has less money (they're looking at benefits, VA, and federal employment cuts). Maybe they'll cry He’s not hurting the people he needs to be hurting. but my hope is they learn who to never elect again at all levels of government.
It's going to be a rough 2 years until the midterms when we flip one of the chambers of Congress and stop any more insanity, but we'll survive. And if we do what we can, we'll get back what's ours and then some in 4 years.
For what it's worth, this particular case happened 2 years ago, in Missouri:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2022/10/15/missouri-abortion-ban-pregnancy-complications/10496559002/
Good lemming. Keep doing good things.
From the article:
Why do I picture this lady as an anti-vaxxer & anti-masker?
80% white. 40% with a high school education or less.
In 2022, over 100 anti-vaccination protesters rallied at the state Capitol against health director Donald Kauerauf's confirmation, despite his opposition to mask and vaccine mandates. Protesters displayed signs reading "God-given natural immunity" and "We're not guinea pigs."
In 2024, House Bill 1424 was introduced to prohibit COVID-19 vaccination requirements for transportation access. Missouri Senators Josh Hawley and Eric Schmitt co-sponsored federal legislation to ban mask mandates through 2024.
The state as a whole gives a certain vibe..
Nutpicking. For every "Haha! Instant Karma! Suck it, idiots!" front page circle jerk, a thousand conservatives will get abortions under the table without a problem.
You've got to go two years back on this shit because its ultimately the exception, not the rule.
Missouri just voted to make them legal again, so not sure your point.
I think that's what makes it notable enough to be reported on?
https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/
The only moral abortion is my abortion!
Hope she learns from this shit that her choices have consequences. Vote better next time
She won't
Judging her type if I had to place a bet the next thing she's gonna do is trying to sue the next best (probably innocent) person for the biggest bullshit reasons just to feel better. (And maybe go to a more liberal state to get an abortion)
I wonder if it was more an assumption that the rules only applied to viable pregnancies.
I mean I'm pro-choice but I'd assume anyone pushing to ban abortion is aiming to prevent viable pregnancies from being terminated while still allowing medically necessary or unviable pregnancies to be terminated.
Youd be quite disappointed
How do they justify that? I mean I can see why people would be against aborting viable fetuses, but a fetus that will never live seems absurd.
I guess we also force dying people to wait it out, so maybe it's on trend.
Religion, mostly
Nah. The point of this is to punish women for having sex.
If they die, the harlot shouldn’t have spread her legs.
If she was raped - no she wasn’t.
The whole point is to punish women for taking control of our bodies and then becoming full citizens. Cis white men HATE women.
Reminds me of brexit. You were warned, lady. You just chose not to listen because you didn’t think it would have a negative impact on you.
"Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect."
-Francis M. Wilhoit
The Only Moral Abortion is My Own.
For the curious: https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/
"First they came for..." you fucking ghouls.
You signed a death warrant for us all and for our children's supposed future, and your ignorance and cowardice was the ink.
And just in case anyone had any hope of the next generation fixing things... they're also targeting education.
Targeted for decades, just now finishing the job with singling out option for education to only vouchers to religious schools. Even then, they will slowly decrease value of vouchers so eventually you are out of pocket for a poor quality education and religious indoctrination as cherry on top.
People who voted for the Leopard Eating People’s Faces party suddenly shocked when the leopard eats their face.
And sadly, most won’t learn that lesson.
"Actually I like having my face eaten."
I just pictured a leopard that would pounce on people's footprints and eat those. Like dirt and all, I loled.
Autocorrect for the win. Fixed it.
And nothing was actually learned.
So she got what she voted for? I don't see an issue
Oh my god the end of that article is brutal... Yes, leopards eating faces and all, but holy shit that response was heartless
They believe she is a piece of trash, not a person, so what did she expect to be treated like. Used her for her vote, and then threw her away.
Yes, heartless as she as been heartless. Brutal as she was. Live by the sword? Well ya know the rest 🤷♂️
She did it to herself. Not a drop of sympathy from me.
"Farmer" and "White". Name a more American duo
"Things that really should not be run for profit" and "running them for profit anyway because socialism bad"
Hey, Gary Farmer is a national treasure, and he was Native American!
Edit: Ah shit my bad, he's Canadian. Still North America...
Hotdogs and beer?
Guns and Ammo.
"then connected Farmer with an anti-abortion crisis pregnancy center in the state"
I can imagine how that conversation went: "I know its risking not only your reproductive organs, but also your life. However, have you considered carrying the child to term so she can die in your arms shortly afterward so you can 'pwn the libs'? Think about their tears!"
Schadenfreude!
ETA: I’ll take the downvotes on this one. Shower your disapproval. Fuck this lady and her leopard eaten face.
I don't really feel happy for anybody in this case. Everybody loses. We can only hope that this person learned their lesson.
Absolutely agreed - her situation is a shit one, and I hope she learned her lesson. She chose her journey, though, in the face of all the contrary evidence.
I did a little digging and she is pro choice now
https://jezebel.com/former-pro-life-missouri-woman-denied-emergency-abortio-1849688390
When was this? A lot of these posts from the last decade are resurfacing now (for obvious reasons)
Looks like Oct. 18, 2022 according to the source article listed elsewhere in the comments.
Bet you she still voted Trump this year
I wouldn’t be so sure. She has since appeared in a campaign ad with the democratic Missouri senator candidate in the 2022 midterms, moved out of Missouri, and sued the hospital in Kansas for denying care under the EMTALA. Her opinion piece on CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/27/opinions/emtala-scotus-ruling-emergency-abortion-idaho-farmer/index.html) is particularly harrowing in describing her experience and advocates for federal abortion rights.
Well good for her for changing her mind. It's easy to laugh at people like her but I think we need to have more compassion for these people. All the spiteful people on this website often make me more mad than these dipshit republicans.
I had a lot of shitty views indoctrinated into me during my upbringing and it's taken me years of self work and reflection to become the leftist I am today. My growth didn't happen because people made fun of me, it happened because a close friend of mine cared about me and wanted me to become a better person.
tl;dr: laughing at republicans solves nothing and just makes you feel good about yourself, which is not a horrible thing in itself but something more leftists need to be aware of imo.
The democratic party is a completely different discussion. Dems didn't lose because they're too nice to play dirty, they lost because they couldn't even pretend to give a shit about regular folk and the problems that face them. They have no morals or convictions and are perfectly happy letting the republicans win if the alternative means fighting against corporate interests.
This is attitude is basically what I'm talking about. You will not convince people by patronizing them, or treating them like children. You have to treat them with respect, actually listen to their problems, and try to explain how leftist policies can solve those problems, while someone like Trump (or even Harris) cannot.
Many right leaning voters view liberals and leftists as academic elitists who have no concept of what their lives are like, and in many ways they are right. Treating them like children will just reinforce that belief and push them further to the right.
Not everyone can be convinced, but if we want to stop this horrific slide towards fascism we need to get serious about educating the masses on leftist beliefs and deprogram all the fascist neo-liberal propaganda they've been fed all their lives.
Not too long ago I was a neo-liberal, and I sure as hell didn't change my perspective by reading patronizing comments online. I happened to start watching a black youtube creator (FD signifier) who explains concepts like white supremacy, the patriarchy, and capitalism without being hostile or patronizing to viewers who disagree with him. He gave me a way out of that line of thinking that minimized my feelings of shame from having been so ignorant.
I'm not going to pretend to know what the average person should do to combat misinformation but I can tell you with certainty that treating people who disagree with you like children, or patronizing them in any way is simply not an effective at changing their minds.
By all means make fun of trump, fascists, etc, but if you're not prepared to calmly explain why these people are bad, people will just think you're saying it because you want "your team" to win.
Sorry for the long essay.
💯
The most fucked up thing about most Leopards Ate My Face types is that the leopard always eats someone else’s face first. This smug turd-lady voted for years to punish everyone she didn’t like. I feel sorry for what a hateful human she is
And she will go back to being a piece of shit after her ordeal, assuming she survives.
I am rapidly running out of sympathy for such people. I still have some, but I am rapidly running out.
This may get downdooted to oblivion, but I think some of this is human nature. It is abhorrent, and something we need to strive to fix, but it is rather natural for people to think that their own situation is typical -- because for them, it is. Every exemplar that a privileged person will have is also a privileged exemplar -- until, of course, something like this happens.
And as a further consequence, it is extremely difficult to convince someone that their personal situation is not the norm. Everyone wants to be the main character and ultimately believes that they are.
Not sure what the solution is.
Provide testing for logic, critical thinking, and empathy in order to vote?
Stop making excuses for stupid people that hold back the progress of mankind?
Oh, I'm not trying to make excuses. Though I can appreciate that it looks like that.
But how do we restrict the stupid people? If we agree that every human gets to take part, then it follows that the stupid will be voting.
I don't think a litmus test is the answer, since they are extremely easy to misuse. Why not say only landowners should vote? How about only veterans? It's a dangerous path.
It's a dangerous path, but does that mean we shouldn't consider it? Like when you vote you have to correctly identify your candidate's policies. Or you have to answer some moral question like "rich people are rich because they are in some way inherently better". Or if you vote anti choice you're informed "selecting this candidate waives all natal care that may end your fetus' life including termination of an unviable fetus to save your life, sign your name if you waive your medical rights" if they refuse to sign - your vote don't count. But a lot of folks are too dumb to get a say in this shit right now. I think the dumbing down of America is 100% orchestrated and intentional, but we need to fix our dumbness for a few generations and get a good level set of "not being a fucking dipshit" before we can trust the random person on the street has more common sense than a bag of mismatched socks.
Even then, that may not work, since people are inclined to think "that's basically an impossibility, or would only happen if you're under the influence, or old, it could never happen to me".
I should be surprised if Farmer expected that she would need abortion care when she voted against it. She likely only realised she would when she found out her pregnancy was non-viable, and tried to get abortion care
then who determines what is logical or empathetic ? i hope ur joking...
Yes, but we can all, even the stupid, agree on a few things, surely?
Gather a handful of random people from your neighborhood and try to decide where to go for lunch. Now, make it several hundred million people from everywhere and have them come up with the definition of "stupid".
Why put it all on the stupid people? It’s at least as much a problem with people not being accountable for their words, the death of objective and traditional media, the loss of distinction between news and opinion.
The problem with Trump being elected is not just the stupid people who thought that was a good idea but the things he can get away with saying, lack of trusted reporting or fact checking.
I guess instead of reading a few books, we'll all just have to make the same mistakes that we've already made, again, in order to learn anything... Yeah sure, dude, let's start making people take tests before they can vote. What could go wrong?
Reading.
We need everyone to read more books. A wide variety of stories on a wide variety of topics by a wide variety of authors, all with different backgrounds and ideas. We must read stories that let us temporarily step into the mind and experiences of other people, who aren't us, to train our brains the ability to understand the plights of others. Books of human stories, as opposed to movies, doom-scrolling TikTok, etc., seems uniquely suited for this kind of training of empathy, because the stories are executed inside our own brains.
I'm willing to bet that these why-are-the-leopards-suddenly-eating-my-face? the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion type people have read distinctly less, or at least far less varied, stories than us who look at them and wonder how it is possible to be so unable to put themselves in the shoes of anyone but themselves.
This is an explanation of human perception and behaviour, there is nothing controversial about it and easily understood. It is also true that if you stick someone in a creepy haunted house they will naturally feel scared even though it's Halloween and it's perfectly safe. The issue is not that humans have these natural tendencies that lead to logical fallacies, the issue is that humans have the capacity to be meta aware of them, process them, and situate them appropriately--skills developed through education and practice/experience--yet we have sociopolitocal movements that encourage the opposite for the benefit of the rich and powerful.
I don't think it's more human mature than the opposite is.
Most of us are capable of reasoning and of empathy. We can hear a doctor say "there's cases where it's necessary" and think "yeah, makes sense" or "I trust their expertise".
Not being able to see past oneself seems like a very limited view. There's reasons for that of course. but it's a failure of education and social surroundings. And it's not inherent.
I get your point, but i think people are not consistent with this. Who gets or doesnt get sympathy is entirely emotional.
Ive had people say that refugees are at fault for not getting their papers in order in time and shut be deportet over it and then go on to talk about how for them as citizens it is impossible with the low staffed and inefficient government offices these days.
They willfully ignore that their problems with the bureaucracy could exist for other people too. And we are not even talking about acknowledgong it to be worse. Just simply transferring their life experience onto other people like you describe.
Just for your info: There is no "downdooted to oblivion" on Lemmy. Up- and downvotes for comments have almost no effect.
Yes thanks, and I know that. I'm not going for updoots, but I do like to see them.
Gotta get that dopamine where you can.
Rules for thee, but not for me.
Classic FAFO
Kristen Bell; she and her, now husband, Dax Woods made one of my favorite movies. Hit and Run. It's a car chase and road trip movie that is also left wing. Mostly a guy's movie, but homosexuality is dealt with grace and humor. It's really funny and smart. My fifteen year old son loved it. Positive masculinity is shown.
this is missouri.
i bet this woman still voted against amendment 3.
Two years ago? Cuz that's how old this is.
It's a sad reality that most pro-life stance people don't understand that most pro-choice people are also pro-life. It certainly doesn't help that some extremists rant loudly about 9th month abortions. But a lot of people who don't like the idea of abortion still understand the need for it, both medical and otherwise, and believe the decision should rest with the parent and doctor, not the government. If there was more open an honest communication then there probably wouldn't be as many single-issue voters voting Republican because of this issue.
There are few situations where I would choose abortion, however if my wife or daughter needed an abortion for whatever reason, I'd want it to be legally available from a qualified healthcare provider with minimal wait time. This business of having to leave the state/country to get an abortion is fucking ridiculous.
Exactly. I thought I was pro-life years ago because I personally wouldn't consider an abortion outside of medical issues. But I also didn't presume to make decisions for other people. It took a friend explaining to me that my position makes me pro-choice for me to understand. The Republicans have done a good job of framing the pro-choice stance as wanting to kill babies, and the pro-choice people haven't done a good job explaining that it's not.
I was going to make a leopards ate my face joke, but then I realized this IS the LAMF group!
Sauce: https://www.jezebel.com/missouri-woman-denied-emergency-abortion-called-a-state-1849672223
Damn. Feels like it could be a good quote to oppose anti-abortion.
The poor dear has learned the consequences of voting against her interests far too late. I laughed, but at the same time I'm worried about those who voted in their interests and got fucked over.
This is just like COVID. "Do the bare minimum by staying home and social distancing to save those who cannot fight this fight." And they all said, "fuck that, I have a TV in 4K but watching church services on it just doesn't fill me with the holy spirit! Imma risk it!" And then proceed to make the pandemic worse than it had to be while adding another god damned fucking wedge issue into the mix of other wedge issues drummed up by the GOP and ultra wealthy.
A medical form field we need is "what did you learn?"
She probably still believes all the bullshit too. "too many women are just getting post birth abortions for the funsies" Just the fakest stupidest lies.
Womp womp
Hmmm. This sounds a lot like Karma.
And she learns nothing
Jaguar problem?
Good. I hope she suffers. She is apparently one of the knuckle draggers who can only learn the hard way.
she won't. if she survives she'll just go back to her old self calling other abortion seekers evil or sluts.
even when they had the right, that's what they did as they are leaving the abortion clinic after having had one themselves ... there's a massive disconnect in the brain.
Makes you wonder how Ms "pretty pro-life" votes
[Scene opens on a wide, desolate savanna at dusk. The camera slowly pans over a leopard lying under a tree, its large body barely able to move. The sun is setting, casting a cold, dim light over the scene. Soft wind rustles through the dry grass. The leopard’s eyes are dull, its breathing labored.]
Narrator (soft, somber voice): In the wild, leopards are meant to stalk, to hunt, to climb. But for some, this is no longer possible. These are the leopards of the forgotten savanna... the ones who can no longer live the life they were born to lead.
[Cut to a close-up of another leopard, this one lying next to a watering hole, panting heavily. The camera lingers on its enormous, bloated body, its paws barely able to reach the ground. The leopard’s eyes seem vacant, devoid of the wild spark they once had.]
Narrator: Overfed and unable to move, these leopards have been left to a slow, painful existence. They can no longer hunt their prey, no longer climb the trees to escape danger, no longer feel the thrill of the chase. They are trapped in their own bodies.
[Cue the soft, mournful opening chords of "Angel" by Sarah McLachlan. The camera slowly pans over a third leopard, sluggishly trying to rise, but its massive weight prevents it from standing. It lets out a heavy sigh, its once-strong legs buckling beneath it.]
Narrator: They are the forgotten victims of a world that has abandoned them. Too fat to run, too weak to fight... These leopards are slowly fading, one breath at a time. They need your help.
[Cut to a shot of a leopard staring out over the savanna. The camera lingers on its face, eyes half-closed, its expression one of quiet resignation.]
Narrator: For just $3 a day, you can provide the care and support these leopards so desperately need. A donation will help give them the chance to live a life of dignity. Help them find their way back to the wild they were meant to roam.
[The music swells as the camera fades to black, and the words "Your donation can make a difference" appear in white text on the screen.]
Narrator (whispering): Please, don’t let them suffer in silence. The time to act is now.
[The music fades out, and the SPCA logo appears in the corner, along with a toll-free number and website for donations.]
Nice watermark
Now I do know and understand the risks along with what is involved with a hysterectomy, but her age along with her political stance brings some questions.
With her being 'mostly pro-life'... Was she against contraception? Did she get pregnant on purpose? Did she know the level of risk to the mother and fetus with a pregnancy after 40? She said she was worried about losing her uterus... Was she wanting to get pregnant again? Did she know she's just around the corner from menopause? Being around her age, the option for freezing one's eggs can be a viable option, especially with the possibility of needing a hysterectomy. Would she be against a surrogate pregnancy?
Leopards eating their faces as usual.
If her pregnancy was such a health risk she should have taken personal responsibility and not had intercourse with any man who has not had a vasectomy.
This just shows her moral turpitude and adds to the argument that women shouldn’t even be able to vote!!!
::: spoiler Tap for spoiler If you thought I was serious you need to go touch grass. :::
Hahahahahahahahahahah
So did she lose her uterus? That would be great actually.
I don't wish harm to people even if they didn't understand what would happen when they encounter the same situation. This is just callous.
They understand it perfectly well. They think it won't happen to them but they're fine with it happening to others.
We may well be talking about someone who received inadequate sexual/reproductive education. Typically the only sex-ed the pulpit provides is "pro-life" propaganda.
You can make excuses all you want. All "pro-lifers" can go fuck themselves.
If this experience didn't change the patient's mind about identifying as and voting "pro-life", I might agree with you.
Where does it say her mind was changed, or is it implied?
I didn't mean to imply her mind was or wasn't changed. I meant that if it was, I'm unwilling to condemn her. If I knew it wasn't I might be willing to condemn her. Not knowing whether she changed her mind after, I wouldn't be willing to condemn her without equivocation.
Just because I think we should have legal and safe abortion access doesn't mean we should root for people to die when it happens to them.
I'm perfectly fine with people facing the consequences for their beliefs.
I think the lack of empathy is part of the problem.
Then why did she know to seek abortion care? True ignorance would mean dying during a miscarriage because you don't know what's happening and not seeking medical care.
It's likely her doctor told her she needed a DNC or something (without using the word "abortion") and the patient didn't realize the state laws would consider that an (gasp) "abortion" until the doctor told her so.
Why does anyone want to grieve?
The loss of a potential family?? Maybe she wasn't expecting to get pregnant but then wanted the child, then found out it wasn't going to survive.
People can grieve things that never happened. Things that maybe they wanted but didn't get.
Yeah, but shouldn't you want to instead not grieve?
You are gonna just have to out and tell me which level of bullshit you are aiming for, I can't possibly guess.
Grieving feels bad. Who wants to feel bad?
Grieving is healing. It feels bad and it helps you feel better.
Doesn't make any sense to me.
I'm sorry for that.
From your link:
"At the time of the discussion, Farmer was medically stable, with some vaginal bleeding that was not heavy. “Therefore contrary to the most appropriate management based (sic) my medical opinion, due to the legal language of MO law, we are unable to offer induction of labor at this time,” the report quotes the specialist as saying."
So yes, the law did prevent an abortion and endangered her life.
She is suing because she expected an exception for herself.
Hospitals lawyers "we'd rather be maybe sued by the state than definitely sued and shut down"
Is how this plays out in real life.
It wasn't just getting sued. Your healthcare provider would face a class B felony and likely revocation of their license prior to amendment 3 passing.
It's not good business for a portion of your workforce to end up in prison when you're already in a shortage area.
It doesn't really matter since the right to abortions was added to the state constitution.
It still matters because the Federal courts can set precedent that the Federal law (obviously, that's how Federalism works) overrides state abortion bans.
It would be cool if she won, but I don't think she will. Super easy to argue that her circumstances had not yet reached the level of "medical emergency".
So fucked are we
When the law is a witch hunt not based on science, doctors cannot operate based on their best judgement based on science. Real issues of "unlikely" and "increased her chances" aren't the same things as immediate medical emergency: they prevent an immediate medical emergency. Any law restricting abortions to when they are "medically necessary" will always lead to cases where its denied until its immediately medically necessary, at which point it may be too late. This is a clear-cut example of what such laws will always do and doctors being forced to tiptoe around the feelings of fanatics instead of being able to practice medicine.
In this case, the legal issue is a felony and potentially life in prison.
Sounds like she was not experiencing an emergency medical condition that would have required stabilization. It could have become more severe, which explains why conventional care would have been abortion, but it was not, at the moment of presentation.
Sure would be nice if they would just let the physicians practice medicine, without having to second guess which law takes precedence.
In your opinion. Unless you're a Missouri judge, that opinion is not useful.
That's a misinterpretation of EMTALA and the words of the HHS secretary.
They didn't say that they would protect providers who perform abortions. They said they would seek civil punishment for those that do not. That's very different from providing protection.
See my comment above for more details.
It could be very easily argued that "could deteriorate rapidly" is not a medical emergency, and therefore does not meet the requirements of the MO or federal laws to allow for inducing labor or abortion.
Given the overzealous rhetoric from state officials, I understand the hospital and doctor's reluctance to provide care. We are fucking ourselves.
It's has the intended teeth; health care for women denied yet again.
This is not a medical error. EMTALA is not a protective law for healthcare facilities or professionals. The state can still prosecute based on their own laws, and in Texas, for example, performing an abortion can come with a lifetime sentence.
From the medical provider and hospitals standpoint, you are now stuck between a rock and a hard place. Perform an abortion and face criminal charges from the state or refrain and face civil charges from the fed.
If you had the choice to face a criminal charge (prison sentence) or a civil charge (fine), which would you pick?
Which federal law are you referring to? EMTALA does not supersede state law, nor does it prevent the state from pursuing criminal charges for abortion.
It's unrealistic to expect a significant number of doctors to throw away their livelihoods and go to prison to prove a legal threat. Doctors are being advised by risk management divisions of the hospital to not even consider abortions in these cases (in certain states) because it means saying goodbye to your practice, your savings, and your family.
https://www.texastribune.org/2024/01/02/texas-abortion-fifth-circuit/
Texas disagrees. Please see above source.
No one's going to risk their livelihood on precedent. While legal precedent is important, it doesn't provide meaningful reassurance when the stakes are this high.
Do you have any specific examples of such cases?
Yeah but I can't blame the doctors for refusing, when in doubt a right wing jury without medical training will decide if it was an emergency or not, and your freedom depends on their verdict.
But that is the explicit threat. That is what law makers are saying they are setting as precedent.
There’s no guarantee they will be charged is not the same as there is a guarantee they will not be charged. And that is the issue, the hospitals were directly threatened by republicans with jail time, and contradictory statements, as proof when she reached out to get clarification from the governor even he noped out when it mattered. Also remember that the doctors do not run the hospital, administrators and bean counters do.
There only has to be the threat. Because as long as hospitals are afraid to perform abortions the republicans win… well “win” in this case. We are just people arguing could have should have, when the hospital doctors recommended it, but the hospital with their lawyers and the fact they have been doing this as a profession was not as convinced as you seem to be.
Besides, is your argument the hospital was out to kill this lady specifically?
Doctors swear an oath, "first, do no harm." So yes we can blame the doctors!
Doctors are supposed to behave ethically regardless of the law. This is not a new thing! Doctors providing appropriate treatment despite the law is a very fucking long tradition in medicine.
It isn't. Name one time that happened.
"Do no harm" doesn't mean "risk your livelihood and freedom to perform an operation that a patient can get elsewhere".
Just one? Sherwin Raymond: https://newrepublic.com/article/167633/roe-wade-abortion-doctors-dobbs-prison
...but doctors have been imprisoned or killed for treating the "enemy" since, well, doctors.
What defines a medical emergency in rhe eyes of the law? How many hospitals are going to perform an abortion they deem a medical emergency only to be potentially sued by an AG who disagrees that it was medically necessary?
What hospital is going to test the boundaries of what immediate or imminent risk to life in the eyes of the law? Especially with any government official salivating at the chance to punish any abortion care.
So if the law didn't exist there'd be nothing to misjudged...
It's not even close to the same. Abortion laws shouldn't exist in the first place. The decision should be left up to the woman alone. All this law is doing is making providers worry about the consequences of performing one. A law against theft deters theft.... There is a purpose to that.
It's not a baby. It's a blob. It has no sentience and the mother doesn't want it in her body. It's basically a parasite.
No one should be forced to carry a fetus. End of story
No, those are fully formed individuals that can survive on their own if separated from the mother. The fetus is surviving off it's mother's body. Stealing her nutrients. The only thing separating it from fitting the definition of a parasite is the "different species" caveat.
"At risk" isn't an emergency. All pregnancies have risk to the life of the mother.
An abortion was proactive healthcare. The law prevents it.
You again quoted "at risk". High blood pressure is "at risk". It's not an immediate life threatening condition requiring surgery.
She wanted an early abortion but didn't get it because she voted against it.
If she received immediate care, she would no longer be at risk. In the same way if you take drugs for high cholesterol, you will no longer be at risk for a heart attack.
Stopping risk is preventative care, not an immediate life threat.
I'll take stories that never happened for 400 Alec.
Edit: for the downvoters... cope harder.