JK Rowling falls silent as she could be prosecuted in Imane Khelif lawsuit
Author J.K. Rowling has fallen silent on her usually busy X (formerly Twitter) feed, after Olympic gold medalist boxer Imane Khelif filed a legal complaint in France for alleged cyber harassment over statements regarding her gender.
On August 9, lawyers for Khelif filed a lawsuit with a special unit of the public prosecutor's office in Paris, stemming from false statements that spread online about her gender after the Algerian boxer defeated Italy's Angela Carini in her first fight of the 2024 Olympic Games. Carini pulled out 46 seconds into the bout and told reporters afterwards that she had "never felt a punch like this."
https://www.newsweek.com/jk-rowling-imane-khelif-donald-trump-elon-musk-lawsuit-1940241Open linkView original on lemmy.world1145
Comments312
Oh no, consequences.
Only because she attacked a cis woman. No consequences from the years doing everything in her power to targetedly harass individual trans peolle, the community as a whole or publishing books about trans serial killers.
Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to see her go quite, I hope she stays that way. But I'm bitter it wasn't a realization that her crusade was mysgonstic hatred, only that she was a zealot who accidently friendly fired.
This isn't friendly fire. TERFism is inherently white supremacist and Khelif was targeted for her race.
I abundetly agree that is correct. But I am doing my best to try to think of her personal viewpoint, in JK's mind she is defending women from men. Hell, her stupid books are a racist allegory for how evil racism is, but when she gets praised from literaly white supramcists and dictarors, she makes excuses for being the greater good.
It's only when from her twisted perspective, she (for the first time) attacked an "actual woman", that she is finally giving pause. JK thinks she is feminist even if all she has done in actuality is outright misogyny. Which is why I am so frustrated, she didn't wake up to what a monster she has been, just that she needs to be more careful in who she "righteously" attacks.
I don't think Rowling is as capable of change as you do. I think Rowling still sees Khelif 100% as a male man, because she's black. And I think Rowling is viewing this as the woke lobby taking away all her money and making her live on the street for challenging them. I think this is making Rowling incredibly outraged, and she's only shut up out of fear. And that's good. I want Rowling to be angry and scared and powerless. Because I don't think anything in the world could ever convince her that trans women are women.
I miss trial by combat.
You could have made this claim once, and it been believable.
Had Rowling made even one...just one comment about the literal child rapist (whose victim was a 12-year-old girl) that competed at this Olympics...you might have been able to keep believing this.
But her absolute silence about an issue where an actual girl was traumatised by the actions of an actual man, and insistence on going to war against a woman who she's pretending is a man instead, completely removes any semblance of doubt there. Her goal is to delegitimise trans women. That's not just an instrumental goal, it is the terminal goal: the cruelty is the entire point.
Don't forget it's also inherently misogynistic and attacks cis women all the time anyways.
I just had a great idea. You know how Rowling is always going on in the narration of the HP books about how X bad female character has "mannish hands"? Let's turn Rowling and her mannish hands into a meme just to fuck with her
I’m not arguing, but how is TERFism white supremacy?
TERFism restricts feminism to a tightly defined and controlled ingroup. The criteria for determining who is a real woman, when employed by bigots, will inevitably come to describe the socially dominant form of femininity, which is white femininity. Black and Arab women like Khelif will always fail to pass the standards of white femininity, because they're not white. The standards are racist. And TERFs invariably pick racist standards, because the kind of people who feel the need to police womanhood to appeal to an imagined ideal are people who will end up doing that in more ways than one. And also, TERFs are always hanging out and allying with overly white supremacist groups, because Nazis are the only people who will put up with assholes like Rowling. That's why she's always taking photos with fascists.
Bigotry is illogical, and will always 'friendly fire'. No one is ever safe. People have transvestigated Joanne Koanne Roanne and Andrew Tate. No one is ever safe.
tbf tho Tate is a little manlet. I am in disbelief that anyone takes their cues on traditional masculinity from him. Guy with a face like that, he should be preaching the virtues of open mindedness and tolerance. If he was, I'd respect his masculinity. But since he demands that men be judged for failing to embody masculinity, I'm happy to treat him as he wishes to be treated and conclude he is a tiny soyboy with a pathetic chin.
It's the start, the lawsuit has more chance to win that way, and can pave a path for trans people to win cyberbullying lawsuits too
Someone finally got Rowling to shut up! Imane Khelif is my hero!
Getting JK Rowling to shut up is arguably a more impressive accomplishment than winning Olympic gold
Re: Your username. Do you sneakily swipe bread sticks, or use them as weapons? Also, how do you feel about garlic bread?
Those are definitely weapons grade bread sticks. An unlimited supply of ammo. Kudos.
Anyone with basic critical thinking skills would have known this whole scandal was bullshit in the first place. Did it not occur to any of these TERFs and transphobes that Algeria (a Muslim nation known for persecuting the LGBTQ community as a whole) is one of the least-likely nations to field a trans candidate?
Yeah, I've had a sad laugh about all this stupid alt-right knee-jerk reaction. Algeria, bastion of "wokeness".
How out of touch are these people?
They are just so desperate for an Olympic level "gotcha" in their cultural crusade that they just singled out a woman boxer for being "too butch" and just ran with their assumptions.
Then every try-hard wannabe right wing influencer type just gloms onto it hoping to be chosen by the algorithm for ten hot seconds of vainglorious right wing attention/validation.
You assume they even heard of Algeria before this. Or even during it. The country she represented was not part of the bigotry, just her looks/build.
The TEFRs notably did not choose a white woman to attack here.
Joanne has a full university education and has traveled the world. There is absolutely no way she doesn't know Algeria is a Muslim country and that a Muslim country would in no way approve an openly queer athlete to be on their Olympics team.
She's just a bigot.
On the other hand, Algeria is a country unlikely to formally recognize an intersex person.
Are they more likely to be intersex than just doping with testosterone?
Doping with testosterone would certainly have been tested for (amongst other PEDs).
Does it come up different in the body than just normal testosterone?
Sorry, not a doping expert. Reports of cheating seem to focus on quantity of testosterone, not quality.
But in this case the discussion is moot. Imane Khelif didn't have abnormal levels of testosterone.
This reminds me of moon landing deniers. Like, y'all don't think that America's greatest enemy of the time, the Soviet Union, with all of their resources, wouldn't have been denying the US's claim to having landed on the moon if there were any credible evidence that it hadn't actually happened?
It’s about fucking time someone shut her up
she thought she was Hermione. turns out she was just Malfoy.
I'm honestly confused how she could write a story where Harry Potter triumphs over he who must not be named, when he who must not be named was her hero.
It must have been really tough for her.
It's less that and more the system of prejudice itself is her hero, because she never truly challenges it, and the final state of peace at the end of the books does not require fixing its problems. Voldemort was a bad apple, nothing more (according to her I'd imagine)
Yeah the way she kind of bullies Hermione with the whole 'SPEW' thing was so off. First, Hermione had style and was a genius. I think she would know that 'SPEW' is a bad acronym.
Also, making everyone turn away from her and no one supporting her - she didn't need to really make it like that at all. Why couldnt the org have a cute name and Hermione and like Lavender Brown etc all get together to try to coordinate better working conditions for the elves. This then would later help with the plot involving the DA. It's literally a fantasy and Harry gets magical hero results all the time. It's just such a weird part of the books and negative when it really didn't serve any purpose to be negative. Except to be shitty to lady activists.
Yeah the HP books are misogynist as fuck. When I was a little one and I found out they were written by a woman, I was in disbelief. Why would a woman write something so mean to women in general?
Well, the author of HP goes by Robert these days so I guess I had the right idea.
I'm sorry, I think you just short circuited my brain. JK Rowling, who has so publicly and venomously been anti-trans... has spent the last few years pretending to be a man?????? What in the hypocrisy is wrong with her??!?!
And now that you mention it, I'd read a long time ago, before she became public with her TERF-ness, that she went by "J K" on the HP books instead of Joanne because she or the publishers didn't want to discourage boys from picking up a book written by a woman. And now that I'm typing this, I realize the fact that she wrote her books from a boy's perspective, too. So in all these examples, she's inhabiting a male persona.
My brain... can list these facts, but cannot compute them together.
Robert Galbraith pretends to be a different gender in order to gain a political advantage and make money. Having absolutely no sense of empathy whatsoever, he assumes everyone else is like him. He assumes trans people are all pretending to be a different gender in order to gain a political advantage and make money. And the only political advantage you can get out of trans femininity (as opposed to trans masculinity) is the appropriation of feminist resources.
(I mean, you can also get great skin, beautiful flowing locks, and resistance to covid from trans femininity, but I don't think Robert knows about those)
"resistance to covid"? Did I miss something?
yep.
Musk is Malfoy. Rowling is Crabbe.
Okay, now explain it like Star Trek.
She thought she was Kirk, turns out she was just that dumb girl that helped Khan.
I'd say she was young and naïve and attracted to a guy who was literally superhuman. She wasn't stupid though, she was the ship's historian. She basically fell in love with what she was supposed to study. It happens in the real world too... doctors falling in love with patients at the like.
Okay then you do one!
Thinks she's Sisko, but she's Kai Winn.
She thought she was Dax, but she's really Damar. Elon Musk is Gul Dukat.
He's not smart enough. More like the Grand Negus.
Zek is a lot smarter than Dukat.
Grand Nagus Brunt.
Spare me these twisted visions, cruel spectre!
I can see this one.
She thinks she's Future Guy, but she's really Silik.
Daniels?
Rowling is Umbridge.
She's a Stan Shunpike- radicalized offscreen, leaving everyone else confused
She's not Malfoy, she's Umbridge.
She doesn't have quite enough of a backpfeifengesicht to be Umbridge. She's Umbridge from Wish
TemUmbridge
Heaven forbid she lose money. Literally the only thing that could make her
stopbriefly pause harassing people on the internet.She has billions. No matter how much she loses she'll still be obscenely rich.
Maybe they can sue for billions. Gawker got sued out of existence, I hope she gets some good US attorneys and files in a jurisdiction that has unlimited damages. Maybe we can all use the new "K" platform after she owns "X".
Peter Thiel is the reason they were sued out of existence.
Yep. Because they outed him. And he couldn't sue them for that, so he waited around until he found something he could use to sink his teeth into them.
People were cheering when Gawker lost and got shut down because Gawker sucked. Not me. I saw a billionaire using the justice system successfully for a personal vendetta and was horrified.
Is anyone suing Peter Thiel out of existence?
Don't think the UK has the potential for redicolously high damages that exists in some US states.
I mean, there are other ways, but...
And here I thought that she would happily go to jail over her bigotry: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/jk-rowling-willing-jail-misgendering_n_65314d65e4b00565b6234d11
I guess we shouldn't be too surprised that a fantasy author has a lot of silly fantasies about herself.
Did anything come of the rumors that she plagiarized at least the first book, and premise of the entire series?
Are you referring to The Legend of Rah and the Muggles? That was found to be bullshit the second people read the book. It's an extremely weird story about nuclear fallout, talking animals, and a shit ton of meandering filler. The only similarity was use of the word "muggle", which doesn't even mean the same thing in both stories. JK may be a TERF now, but she is not a plagiarist.
She's not a plagiarist per se, but the idea of an elite school for wizards is not exactly original to her. There's The Worst Witch series of books. The first one was published in 1974. They were a huge hit, especially in the UK, leading eventually to a TV movie with a very impressive cast list in the 1980s, which, you will note, was decades before Rowling wrote any Harry Potter book.
There's absolutely no way she was not aware of those books. In fact, considering she was nine years old when the first one came out- the exact age for those books- she almost certainly read it and treasured it and it almost certainly inspired her to write Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone.
On top of that, there was Ursula LeGuin's Earthsea novels, the first of which takes place in large part at a boarding school for wizards where a poor boy who is from a non-magical family is sent after showing that he has magical powers and ends up being the most powerful wizard in the world, fighting the ultimate magical evil.
That was published in 1968 and I would be very surprised if Rowling hadn't read it before she wrote her books, because that is just too similar.
Maybe? I just remembered some thread from ages ago where people were saying that some guy had written a book that wasn't popular, and she reworked it. This may have been pre-reddit, it was that long ago.
Hence why I said rumors. I didn't remember anything that was a smoking gun, or a conclusion to that rumor.
Almost none of the ideas in any of those books are original, they're all cribbed from somewhere else, but that's always the way art is created whether the creator knows it or not. The premise of a kid discovering he's special and entering a secret world of other special people is not something new to childrens' literature
I'm a Conservative championing Genital Inspections on Children to make sure ONLY PEOPLE with Vaginas play Girl's Sports but also THIS Women with a Vagina is ACTUALLY A MAN!
It's about PROTECTING WOMEN! And if I have to hurt a bunch of women to protect them from hypothetical scenarios I made up to demonize trans people, so be it!
JKR is so far off base here that even if you are a dyed-in-the-wool TERF this is basically impossible to defend.
Gate-keeping feminity by excluding women born with a vagina who are too butch by your opinion to be considered "women" is going too far... even if you are otherwise onboard with gate-keeping "womanhood" from trans women.
It's just proof that the F in TERF is a lie. Rowling is in no way a feminist, even if you define feminism as only promoting the rights of cis women.
Rowling is not a feminist, she's a bigot who thinks that cis women who don't pass her requirements for femininity and whiteness count as women.
Don't forget the criteria of what makes a women, women constantly changes to fit whatever warped narrative they have.
Conservatives have a real fixation on people's gentials. Not the fun, sexy way more like a weird, pervy way.
Sorry, was I wrong to be a hateful bigot and use my celebrity to spread hate?
when a man breaks a record he is a super human, when a woman breaks a record she is a man.
Did she break any record? Also AFAIK the same didn't happen to previous medalists or generally the strongest female boxers. It also didn't happen with other monsters who broke tons of records (e.g. Katie Ledecky) just during this Olympics.
This makes me think that it's not what you are saying but there are probably other reasons in play. Probably the IBA and the media making a case after the first boxer withdrew are responsible.
In combat sports there's a lot of derision for women who look too strong. Instead of complementing their training regiment and dedicated they get called ugly and a man all the damn time.
On the other end usually those same trolls will call women who train and still look feminine to be gold diggers training with so many men, that's for posting pictures of themselves training, making weight etc. And send them dm's offering money to be choked out.
I am sure that's the case, but I think this has not to do with "breaking records" I.e. having success in sport. It might have to do with general gender stereotypes related to body types, for example, or with other stuff.
So either way the comment I was answering to seems counterfactual and sensationalistic.
obviously stereotypes make people's story more believable and easier to go viral and that is why people choose the stories they choose. doesn't change the fact that there are people who would rather explain an unexpected level of success shown by a woman by saying she is probably not a woman. the story they choose is irrelevant really. They could have claimed she has cybernetic extensions in her muscles and it would be the same thing. And all you are saying is "but there are other very successful women who have not been treated that way". Sure, did not say every single very successful woman is deterministically being treated unfairly. I am saying it is a tendency.
There are people who are transphobic to the degree of investigating born women, time and again. (Are you aware of the lesbians "bathroom problem"? It predates the current antitrans moral panic by a decade.) It seems their hatred is so rotten that eventually they are the ones unable to define what a woman is. Now even a vagina at birth is not cutting it. Just not beat around the bush, this is about transphobia, and Khelif naming Rowling, Musk, and Trump in her suit (all of them billionaire transphobes with a platform) is no coincidence.
Ah and don't forget that trans women are not men either. Too many let that slip in this debate because Khelif is cisgender, but let's not forget that when nazis say "men are stronger than women" they mean trans women as men. They aren't. Nazi punks fuck off.
What I am actually saying is that the vast majority of successful women athletes didn't suffer from this at this time at all. If this argument works only for Imane Khelif (not even the Taiwanese boxer, who has been mostly ignored), out of the hundreds of women who just won medals, maybe it is not an argument that can be generalized to "women of success", and other causes have to be searched.
This to me is basic common sense: if a thesis works only on a handful of examples and there are hundreds of counter examples, maybe the thesis is wrong. A tendency would require also more examples.
So are you claiming that there is no historical bias towards downplaying women's successes in general or that in history there was but now as a whole Earth has progressed so far that we have left all those behind? Or is it just that it doesn't happen in sports but happens in other areas? Or women have been downplayed but never because of success but always for other reasons?
What you call a handful of examples is taking a magnifying glass and only looking at this particular event. If %10 of successful women have ever been downplayed because of their gender (due to unconscious biases for example) vs %1 of successful men, then this is still a handful of examples which nevertheless points to a significant bias.
None of those, really. Just that downplaying successful women doesn't happen as much in sport, and when it does it's not by stating they are men.
It has to do with the fact that testosterone is a performance enhancement drug and men are categorically stronger than females, and a man punching a female is strictly unsafe.
An breakdown of your wannabe argument would be:
A: "Testosterone enhances performance" B: "Men are in most cases stronger than women" C: "A man punching a woman is unsafe"
This vaudeville of ideas have no apparent link between them, the real product of a scattered mind. Scientists are still out about A.
B is a statistical truism at this point irrelevant to the topic, since Khelif is a cisgender woman, and there is no evidence (for the time being) that she is intersex.
C is also immaterial to the discussion. Perhaps you are trying to say that high-testosterone women are "comparable" to men in combat sports, because they pose a greater threat to cisgender women but this is quite the leap, since she is no man.
Testosterone levels vary between individuals. Taking part in combat sports entails a risk of serious injury. The weight categories are in place to make things comparable between opponents, testosterone levels are not. Scientists have questioned whether testosterone level correlate that much to performance outcomes as people think.
The ersatz argument makes no sense.
Are they?
I think so, yes.
Quoting from Transgender Woman Athletes and Elite Sport
Quoting from Sport and Transgender People: A Systematic Review of the Literature Relating to Sport Participation and Competitive Sport Policies
Quoting Scientific American Trans Girls Belong on Girls’ Sports Teams my emphasis
Quoting from UK-transphobe-funded Strength, Power, and Aerobic Capacity of Transgender Athletes my emphasis
So even those highly motivated to prove trans women are disproportionately advantaged have difficulty tapping it. As for combat sports, don't forget Joe Rogan as well female MMA athletes ended up apologizing to Fallon Fox for all the transphobic BS they had spewed at the time.
What was your point again?
At the moment we don't have any concrete data, so in case it is based on a suspicion at most.
The IBA is notoriously corrupt and in the pockets of Russia. The whole stuff against Khelif was likely made up, because she did not adhere to planned match fixing by the IBA.
Add to that the fact that she is from an African Muslim country and on top of that the country that kicked the French colonisers out. She was made the perfect targeted for all levels of racism and white supremacism, from the very blatant, to the more or less concealed "Liberals".
To be honest I don't consider something being Russian as automatically 100% false. This case from the IBA seems likely made up, or at least it is until they provide further proof, which they didn't so far.
That said, this is irrelevant in this particular conversation. Real or not, that precedent is in my opinion partly responsible for why people decided to attack this particular athletes. I agree with you on the next country also playing a role.
Basically my whole argument is that there are multiple factors that made this a case. The fact that she "broke records" or "had success" is generally very low in the list, imho.
breaking record not in the formal sense but performing exceptionally well, such as beating your opponent in 46 seconds in the last 16
I doubt that fight can be counted as "exceptionally good performance", but anyway why the same didn't happen for those that both performed exceptionally well and actually set records?
There are so many examples of that not happening that makes me seriously doubt it identifies the right cause(s).
What you think are the right causes are not the causes, they are the tools (stereotypical biases etc) that these people use to make their stories believable.
And counting is not the correct methodological approach to this question it is the incident rate (historically of women whose success has been deliberately downplayed because she does not fit the stereotypical women in their head vs men who suffered from the same).
Those look nothing like "tools" to me.
I will make it simpler: In this very thread a person talked about "high testosterone". Why they didn't say the same about the 99% of the women who won competitions? Probably because of a combination of factors:
To me the combination of the above is a much better explanation of the causes for which people attacked this particular boxer, and not the many other women of success, including black and including masculine (e.g., Simone Biles, or Grace Bullen).
I really don't see how this measurement can lead to any conclusion. How can you not measure the amount of women who don't fit the stereotypical woman aspect and yet whose success has not been downplayed due to their aspect (i.e., people called them men)?
It makes up for a more believable story in this context (boxing which is accepted as a masculine sport) and therefore becomes a more efficient tool. It fits in more easily with people's biases making it much easier to spread. Simon Biles is a gymnast so that does not fit into the context here. Grace Bullen does. But you can not simply say "it did not happen to other women in plausible scenerios, therefore it is not real". It is like saying belts are useless in %90 of the cases, it is a useless statistic that does not take into account the expected effect.
What do you mean? Comparing the rate at which women are subject to such effects vs men is a worse statistic than saying "but many successful women are not subject to such effects"? If there is a systematic bias towards women's success being downplayed, you cannot call this an isolated incident of stereotypical bias.
You can take any other boxer, I specifically chose black and "masculine" athletes as examples to show that even race/body type alone was not the determining factor. In these Olympic games you have just Imane's example: how can you call this a trend or make general statements with one case (not even the Taiwanese boxer got attention)?
Men don't have a category to which they are wrongfully assigned when they win sports. This is also because men are the higher category in most sports (i.e., higher performers), so it is a parallel that simply doesn't make sense. So yes. It is a worse statistics because men who are victim of gender stereotypes are generally not the ones who excel at sports (men who are called women in general break the masculine stereotype of the muscular and competitive guy - and these unsurprisingly are not characteristics common in elite athletes).
But this was not your claim either. Your claim is that downplaying is done by specifically saying those women are men. The whole point here is on the cause, not the existence of the phenomenon in general.
Katie Ledecky faces regular accusations that's she's trans and/or intersex...
I had to search, and I did find a few articles talking about a rumor.
I don't think the two events are of same scope and magnitude. The Khelif's case has been a worldwide media case, what I found for was very US-specific and limited to some niche deranged corner of the internet (https://www.snopes.com/news/2023/07/27/katie-ledecky-trans-rumors/ listed Facebook and Twitter posts from individuals and 2 articles).
Possibly I shouldn't have used US athletes as example. Given how the topic is so controversial there, I am quite sure you can find a few idiots who would make this claim about any athlete.
Rowling is one of those idiots this time. That's the difference
And Musk, and the Hungarian boxer, and many more around the World. This has been a worldwide case, not just a private US shitshow.
And thus, by the transitive property, a super human.
This fucking smug cunt.
Some people need a punch to the head to stop being so smug
throw Rowling into the ring
Damn is that actually what she said?
According to the article, yeah.
Transgender people in competitive sports that are already segregated by biological sex is relatively uncharted, and should be carefully navigated. There are ways, and appropriate settings, to bring this topic up respectfully. Twitter is not the place, and these people are not qualified to offer their opinion. JK (and others) aren’t fighting some good cause, they’re just being assholes.
On top of invalidating the lived experience of a cis-woman because this Olympic boxer with more muscle than most men looks kinda masculine in some pictures.
So much for the "we can always tell".
It's a double whammy of bigotry.
Just a false statement that furthers the bigoted narrative we're discussing in this thread lol
What about this statement is false?
Huh?
She’s has more muscle than me.
This is right. This requires a discussion a bit wider than 420 letters, even more when they come from Rowling
The irony of Rowling getting sued for calling a biological woman trans
It's so weird of Rowling to call her a man, considering they have a similar face structure.
I was just noticing that, facial features are very alike
Her post facelift face anyway.
[aliens meme]
projecting
"Just Kidding" Rowling
And let this be a lesson to all internet people, I know y’all hear about the first amendment a lot, but it only applies in America. You have to actually follow the laws of the country you’re in
Also, the first amendment only applies to free speech against the US government. You can’t chat shit about any private individual without them having the option to sue you.
There's a whole lot here that's just slightly off the mark. I'll give you the general sentiment, but the details need work.
Ok, sorry. I’m British, I couldn’t really give a fuck about the first amendment.
That apparently doesn't stop you from talking like you're an authority on it
This is the internet, where we’re all an authority on all things American because Americans won’t shut the fuck up talking about themselves.
Have you tried steering the conversation towards the magna carta or the code of Hammurabi?
The first amendment does not give every US citizen carte blanche to say whatever they want. This is often misunderstood, even amongst a lot of the US population.
You can, however, call The POTUS whatever names you want, just don't even imply any sort of harm may come to them.
Sue'em, hard.
No modern US media has any credibility anymore. They are owned by a handful of wealthy people who don't give a shit about truth or journalistic integrity.
WSJ is a Murdoch propaganda outlet
Bezos has nothing to do with the Wall Street Journal
Upvote because you recognized you were incorrect & you weren’t a rowling about it!
Never, ever take back a “fuck Bezos” 💪👍🙏
Unless you meant it literally; I would never encourage sexual intercourse with that... being.
Hold up though, here me out. Well, lets just say things could get interesting with a splintered 4x4 piece of lumber. Ya know, for science.
Never poo poo a poo poo.
You spelled Rupert Murdoch wrong.
The author, colin wright, touts himself as a fellow for SEGM "The Society For Evidence-Based Gender Medicine;" which is a non-profit organization that is known for its opposition to gender-affirming care for transgender youth and for engaging in political lobbying.
He's a POS who gets paid to write smear pieces endangering the lives of trans people, by people with even worse ideals than his own.
Is Rowling even subject to French legal proceedings?
If she ends up being found liable in an EU country, I bet she won't be able to travel to any EU country without facing that liability. X is an international platform, and she's broadcasting her words internationally, so yes, she can be held accountable in countries where this carries civil or criminal liability.
Also any EU royalty payments could be garnished until her debt from her liability is paid in full.
With the sales numbers of Harry Potter stuff, i doubt there will be a problem of securing the money.
I imagine that her Harry Potter stuff is owned by a corporation. That is probably all separate legally from her.
So her Harry Potter stuff is probably fine as she is getting sued not the Harry Potter corporation.
It will mainly affect her ability to travel around Europe.
She's also one of the richest women in the world, so she won't really suffer any major loss unfortunately.
That's not how legal jurisdiction works in the EU. Member states are still sovereign; if you're liable for something in France and you get off a plane in Germany then France still needs to ask Germany nicely, and sans an extraditable conviction nothing is likely to come of it.
Well at the very least it could block her from going to France? Which as a rich British middle-aged woman I'm sure she would hate not being able to do.
Good, sue her ass off Imane. Take her for every penny. Rowling is an asshole.
Rowling should be in jail for hate crimes. That person need rehabilitation before we can let her back into society.
Unfortunately, the laws don't apply to billionaires.
It's amazing how fast lawsuits can shut up anybody who still has at least two brain cells left. Doesn't work on Trump or Elon for some reason. I'm sure it's a coincidence.
Dementia DonOLD the weird racist rapist with 34 felonies only has two brain cells. AND THEY'RE FIGHTING FOR THIRD PLACE.
Different laws. In the UK it's generally easier to sue for defaming someone like Rowling is accused of doing.
This is under French law, though, and it's cyberbullying law instead of defamation.
I hope she pays dearly for her racism and bigotry.
Racism?
all of this started when the (Russian controlled) IBA suddenly disqualified Khelif (who had been boxing for many years without issue) after beating a Russian. Since then IOC banned the IBA due to ties with organized crime, fixing fights, and financial instability, so now IBA has no influence on olympic boxing whatsoever.
fast forward a couple years to the bigger stage of the olympics, twitter warriors pick up on the story again based on nothing more than "looks like a man" which happens disproportionately more to women of color. So yes, this kind of thing often does have racial undertones.
Yes, she is Algerian (North African) and that was a major reason if not the reason why she was targeted.
She was targeted because it was spread falsely she had XY chromosomes and had high testosterone, not that she was North African. Rowling has had plenty of hate for white trans people.
And JK Rowling specifically is a racist.
I also mentioned bigotry. I am aware she is a TERF.
Attempting to insinuate racism diminishes the other truthful charges.
I mean, her books are full of racist tropes, like obvious ones. Ones she still defends to this day.
Yes. And those tropes are saying racism is bad. Pure blood/mugblood, enslaved elves etc. All bad in the potter universe.
However, Rowling deserves some blame for allowing the goblins to become Jewish caricatures.
No it wasn't
Bahahaha not so careless about throwing your hatred around on your sleeve now, are you bitch?
Fucking destroy her.
What in the Kentucky fried fuck is the editor doing.
AI editors all the way down.
she's in stage 2 of fucking around lmaoo
Get her!
(my emphases)
I don't know where Newsweek takes its facts from but this is another lie pushed by the TERF propaganda machine. Forstater was a tax expert whose contract was not renewed after she was horrible to her trans and non-binary colleagues. (Yes the 'researcher' wording is put there on purpose, to amplify the perception that her freedom of speech was violated, or as Rowling likes to put it 'her livelihood was threatened for disagreeing with the trans lobby'.)
She then went to a labor tribunal court or sth, to claim that her belief in the "immutability and reality of sex" is a protected belief, and made a fuss about being fired for her beliefs, when in reality she was merely discontinued for being a dick to the people she worked with. Her Twitter feed was full of conflating trans people with rapists and pedophiles.
The first judge took into account her definition that requires working plumbing to name someone a woman, and consulted a biological expert, impartial to gender identity, that precluded any scientific basis to Forstater's childish views on biological sex. The judge deemed her belief is "unworthy of respect in a democratic society", but later, an appeal court said she has a right to believe that but she still cannot misgender people.
Critical legal theorists suggested that the appeal court held a very low bar as for what opinions "worthy of respect" should be, and that its ruling should be better interpreted as "marginally better than an outright nazi".
It is a red flag for both the author and the outlet that they lead with a snippet of propaganda which is as false as unsubstantiated claims that Khelif's trans or DSD. So should we conclude both toxic narratives are pushed by the same epicenters?
How much money did she make with HP, billions not millions, right? How can she be so dumb spending her life like a bored internet Karen instead of enjoying it to the fullest with no worry whatsoever?
because she is successful, and there is literally no one more vile and disgusting as a rich person, especially if that person happens to be friends with neo-nazis
But there are successful people who don’t spend their lives like her so your explanation falls quite a bit short.
there is no such thing as a moral rich person
That wasn’t the question
Weirdly, I saw a video online about how people have been looking at videos JKR has been making and the weird coincidence that black mold has allegedly been seen in her backgrounds, given the symptoms of black mold in a person and how the appearance of it lines up with when she started spouting these “opinions.”
Ok now we’re in 4chan territory
I was looking for serious Medical explanation of her condition, not the latest gossip from trans TokTok.
Money can take away a lot of your problems but it can't make you enjoy your life. That's a skill you have to learn that starts with being comfortable with yourself and listening to yourself. A lot of people can't handle doing that and it's why they stay so miserable. Money won't help with that, it only helps with having your most base needs met. She's miserable because she never put in the effort to learn to not be and so she turns to the internet for an outlet to remove some of her misery but of course it can't do that and so she becomes more miserable and lashes out more and more just like anyone else regardless of money. True peace comes from within and within she is hollow and vapid.
Its always X (formerly twitter) and i bet elon hates that.
I see your point. I just think his ego is too big to let it go.
FAFO
Get fucked you stupid cunt.
I've started referring to JK as "Jacob Rowling".
I know that they're completely unaware of it, but I get some smug satisfaction out of misgendering them.
Look, not to be “that guy” but the importance of using someone’s preferred pronouns doesn’t fly out the window when you don’t like them. That just makes you hypocritical.
Bash them for being a piece of shit all you like, but the moment you’re choosing to misgender them intentionally you’re signaling that pronoun choice only matters when you like the person being referred to.
!!!
Joseph would work better considering her birth name was Joanne.
Joseph Kenneth Rowling.
Methinks the gentleman doth protest too much
good god, she's still digging
No need for lawsuits. Put her in the ring. Let her defend her convictions with her face and fists.
Like the Hungarian.
That woman knows how to play the games. Serious winner.
(Edit: I meant Imane, in case that was not clear. And not sarcastic.)
I hope Mr Rowling gets some prison time.
That seems both unlikely and - to be honest - completely exaggerated and useless.
I did indeed exaggerate
Use of the internet to in any way facilitate the outsourcing of on-site labour overseas is capitalism's ultimate spatial fix, pass it on.
They should just let them sort it out in the ring.
Please exemplify Stupid!
The bigotry is on the same level, but I think JK Rowling is actively militant on a far different level compared to Orson Scott Card. Just looking at their twitter for example, OSC tweets maybe once a month and 9/10 times it's about a book signing or other such promotion. JK Rowling's feed is a constant flow of hatred on trans people. She tries very hard to make sure you are reminded of her bigotry every single time you hear anything about her.
The reach is different too. OSC has some 16k followers. Rowling has 15 million. It's natural for her to attract a much higher degree of disdain.
This is it right here. I am a trans person and I actually like both the enderverse and harry potter and I'm not a fan of either author. But I can say I like the enderverse without any shame or self loathing because Card doesn't appear to speak about his shitty views unless directly asked.
Now with Joanne on the other hand.... Well, fuck her and her IP and everything else she might ever do. She is a billionaire and like Musk just can't be happy with that and shut the fuck up. I get it you foul bitch, you hate me and that I exist, now go buy a fucking yacht and let me struggle to pay rent, buy food, and simply live in peace. All I have ever done to that self righteous cunt is buy her books and yet she feels the need to denigrate me and my existence and espouse hate directed toward me every chance she gets. Just stfu Joanne, you've won the game you never have to worry about having your basic needs met ever again. You've won. Now go the fuck away.
Basically I can put blinders on and still enjoy the enderverse and shadows, but I can't do that with Joanne. Harry Potter will never hold the same place in my heart as it once did. I cannot read it anymore without feeling gross and disgusted with myself for enjoying anything this foul human has produced.
To be fair, Ender Wiggin calls his black friend the N word and jokes about owning him as a slave one time. Ender's Game still somehow manages to be less racist than Harry Potter, but it's a close race.
Totally agree with you that I'm less ashamed to like the Ender books tho. Every time I try to understand Leibniz I just remember reading the Ender sequels.
"I don't agree with the nazis, but they are allowed to have opinions that we don't agree with, I don't understand the hate"
Yeah, no problem with that logic. Wanting a minority to die/not exist is just an opinion not worth disdain, that's all, right?
Is that the bar for you? Anything less evil than directly and personally stabbing a baby is ok?
She's gone hard into terf land and is spreading hate and disinfo about trans people
Rowling is using her considerable clout to drum up hatred of trans people. She might not be wielding the bat, but she helps embolden those who do. It's essentially stochastic terrorism. To my knowledge, Card has not gone nearly as far off the deep end in this respect.
I managed to never see a photo of rowling until now, and she totally looks like my friend's dad in poorly done drag and probably also on hard drugs.
Hah. No. She has real lawyer money.
There's literally no information available to state she is intersex. This was put forward last year without any evidence by the IBA, run by a Russian puppet, 3 days after she defeated a Russian boxer. This federation had been under scrutiny since 2019 exactly because of corruption.
I'm all for being careful when talking about this and I'm not ascribing ill intent towards you. Just try to not repeat this base less propaganda that she's intersex, has xy chromosomes or something.
Personally I find this entire thing seems to be now supported and kept alive by people and organisations who want women to look and act a certain way, and any woman who deviates is not considered a real woman. And since I personally train a combat sport, and most of my women friends who compete also look strong, muscled and often like shaving at least parts of their hair off, they tend to look similar to Khelif. It'd be ridiculous to question if they are women, most of them already have kids fcol.
All this without any citations at all.
The IBA is a corrupt Russian body that was upset the Russian boxer was defeated. They never released any results or the methodology they used to determine their decision. They were rightly removed from the IOC.
Do you have a source on the intersex disorder claim. I have seen a lot of articles claim that XY DNA was found in her samples by IBA but the IBA never released their medical results nor what tests they conducted.
I agree on the intersex thing in unsubstantiated, but I still don't understand. Nazis claim that a person's sex should be the one "observed" at birth, legally binding so, end of. Do they fucking anywhere state that this definition excludes intersex conditions? This is the very definition of moving goalposts, and they should eternally stuff it after that, like Rowling did.
(Willie Wonka: Watching conservatives claim there is more to biological sex than genitals at birth, lmao)
Let's not forget that Rowling accuses the "Trans movement" of dehumanizing people, and then goes on to misgender a born woman for her appearance.
(weeps for humanity then laughs hysterically)
I hope this asshole regrets this quote now. Fuck Rowling.
The test she failed is for an organization known to be even more corrupt than the IOC, and a lot of the other sports organizations do not just take their word for anything. Also, they never said what exactly the test was, or in what way she failed. So, unless you got some really updated citations, your argument is speculation based on very vague information, from an organization that doesn't have a great reputation.
Can you link to anything that says she's intersex?
Well my comment was removed for "misinformation" by the moderators of this community, I can't believe this app is just as bad as reddit on censorship. But I digress.
I'll share what info I can, but the official IOC press statement stated "This is not a case of DSD" but quickly after they made a public announcement stating "what was intended to be said was this is not a transgender case", saying the same message but with all instances of DSD replacing with trans, & they are not willing to comment on if DSD is involved.
If they are willing to disclose whether or not their trans, but not DSD, and also felt the need to publically clarify this small oversight that gets the same point across then chances are the fighter has DSD. No one will 100% know without their medical record, but between failed tests and the Olympics themselves alluding to it, theirs more than enough allusion to the fact that completely dismissing it is unreasonable, and the moderators of this community should honestly be ashamed of themselves for removing information they disagree with.
Misinformation isn't something that isn't 100% proven, but rather something that's been 100% disproven, so they are incorrectly using this pejorative.
So as long as we're speculating, what reason does the IBA have for not releasing the results of their test then? Are you even a fan of women's combat sports? What about her performance leads you to believe a woman without DSD couldn't achieve it? It's also kind of obvious why the IOC went out of their way to say she's not trans, hint hint it has something to do with where she's from. But ultimately I want you to recognize there's no evidence one way or the other on if she has DSD.
There is evidence, you may not feel like it's clear enough to definitively determine DSD and that's fair, neither do I, but the fact its ambiguous and no one will deny is enough that it's not unreasonable to think.
You're also being incredibly unfair in your analysis saying they "corrected" their statement from DSD to trans because of her origin country. That explanation makes no sense, you wouldn't correct that statement unless there was something wrong with it. Correction implies you said something incorrect. Saying it's not DSD is correct right? So what's their to correct, only thing to say is adding additional information that she's also not trans.
Amidst both allegations of DSD and trans, if you really want to clear the air you would dispell both, instead they tried to clear one then corrected it to the other as if their mutually exclusive?
You're being absurd at this point. I respect your opinion but if you're going to gaslight people into questioning things on reasonable grounds then you're not at all genuine. Because you have your own opinions and political beliefs, you will overlook odd behavior, anomalies or coincidences and proclaim zero evidence which is why theirs no further discussion to be had.
No one here here is trying to prove anything about anyone, only that it's not a baseless assumption and that we need answers on whether or not people with DSD are allowed to compete in female combat sports which they wont make clear. Anything beyond that is outside my scope, it's a legitimate concern. Thank you and have a good day.
So just to be clear since none of this addresses 80% of what I said, there's no reason for the IBA keeping the results of her failed tests a secret and you've never watched any women's combat sports prior to this in your life? Color me shocked. I hope your uninformed takes on the next scandal you jump in on are better received I guess. Or maybe you can just listen and become better informed? Nah that's a pipe dream I'm sure.
I didn't respond to that question because its irrelevant. What does me watching female combat sports have to do with anything? (Nothing, its just an attempted jab at me) meanwhile you didn't respond to all my claims, while mine are actually related to the argument.
But I'll answer your question despite its purpose & irrelevance. My daughter is a wrestler and I'm a kick boxer & brazilian jujitsu artist, so yes I keep up on female sports because of my child & I have a general care for fighter safety because I'm empathetic, have personally seen people get hurt and I know how dangerous combat sports are. If you're going to try to setup gotcha's that's exactly why I've ended the discussion.
As for IBA, I assume like most company's they don't publically release medical tests of their fighters. If they have a history of posting sex results then let me know. If they have a history and she consented for it to be shown, them also let me know. I would assume they either have a policy against showing it, or they didn't acquire consent to show it, that's a very reasonable answer but you won't accept anything.
The same way you claim DSD can't be argued, you can't argued against the tests because you don't have proof it was faked just circumstantial evidence because their "corrupt" and "fighter loss", just like people on the opposite side have circumstantial evidence as well.
YOU made the claim that she had DSD with no proof. What else needs to be said.
I'm sure you really care about fighter safety, unless it's witch hunting athletes online with no evidence, then it's open season. If you knew anything about the sport this conversation wouldn't be happening. She was the better boxer in all her bouts by a wide margin.
Why don't you take that whole paragraph about the IBA and apply it to the IOC?
Yeah, your comment is reasoned and argued, that will cost you a whole lotta down votes. Remember where you are.
Their argument is bad because it relies on vague information, from a source with a bad rep. This woman also performs in a bunch of countries that absolutely do not accept trans people, and also run lab work to make sure of their sex.
I'm new to this app & I'm politically homeless. I hate conservative and liberal propaganda / spinning of stories, but theirs no way to avoid it because humans are biased.
So what do I do? I follow both liberal and conservative news sources and engage with the people under the posts, since I can't escape the spins I just get both of them and try to see both sides then determine what's right.
Issue is on Lemmy (as someone who just joined) theirs literally no conservative place to join unlike Reddit. Like conservative communities here are anti-Trump and pro-Harris articles. I dislike reddit strongly so I have left, but Lemmy seems like an even worse place to get information because theirs no balance, theirs no diversity, communities trying to offer that are overrun and downvote bridaged.
Hopefully my experience gets better or I find some impartial communities. I really hate rhetoric and culture war issues, I just want to keep up to date on news and that's it.
If you think you need to “balance” right wingers advocating genocide with left leaning people wanting to make the world a better place, you’re politically naive and won’t find what you’re looking for here.
::: spoiler Newsweek - News Source Context (Click to view Full Report) Information for Newsweek:
::: spoiler Search topics on Ground.News https://www.newsweek.com/topic/j.k.-rowling
https://www.newsweek.com/jk-rowling-imane-khelif-donald-trump-elon-musk-lawsuit-1940241
https://www.newsweek.com/topic/twitter ::: Media Bias Fact Check | bot support
Incredibly interesting that as soon as MBFC posts about a right wing site everyone stops downvoting.
What lack of downvotes? I don't see one.
Was at a solid zero when I commented.
So you were impatient.
No, these posts are usually downvoted within minutes of being made. I commented hours later.
This is a leftist echo chamber, I have no idea what you mean.
Oh no, reality has a left-leaning bias. We must change reality!
The absolute horror!!
It's impossible to prove that someone ‘never failed a gender test’ you can only prove that someone passed or failed a specific test. Maybe if you understood logic and critical thinking a bit better it might help you in your life. I'd recommend learning.
By "this woman," do you mean Rowling? Are you sure she's a woman? Has she taken a gender test?
You mean Robert Galbraith? JK is a little gender fluid anyway.
I get where you're coming from. But she has popped a crotch goblin out in the past, which is a pretty good indication of womanhood. (Side note: I'm not saying if a woman can't or won't have kids they aren't a woman, because they clearly still are. But if a woman does give birth to a child it's usually a strong sign of that gender.)
ETA: If this prospective lawsuit can shut Rowling up long-term that would be fantastic. Like many others, I'm tired of her spewing hateful shit out.
How do you know she did? Were you at the birth? Have you seen video? How do you know the child wasn't adopted?
I know men who've given birth, and women who haven't, so I'm not sure it means what you think it means...
I totally believe Algeria sent a transwomen to the olympics...
For the record: Being trans is highly illegal in Algeria
Yeah, where's the proof of this negative?!? /s
Now we just need your proof that your hero JD Vance never fucked a couch.
Hundreds of people hung people of color from trees without a fair trial. They are still guilty whether or not others did so.
I don't make having opinions on gender and pronouns a cornerstone of my income like JK does. The loudness of the pro-trans community is entirely a response to the opposition trans people face. Want trans people to "get over it"? Get over it yourself first.
I wonder if people like you also wanted the Irish to "get over it" back in the day. Don't hear too much about Irish Pride these days, do you? Did they quite down when hating the Irish left the vogue or did their pride just get normalized? Probably a bit of both, but do you get wound up around St. Patrick Day? Well, you're from a uk instance, so maybe you do.
I don't get it. They took a test that revealed they have XY chromosomes in 2023.
I haven't seen any reporting confirming that she's got XY chromosomes. But if you have an article, please correct me if I'm wrong. What I've been able to find is this:
Banned governing body that’s fueling outcry on Olympic boxers has Russian ties and troubled history
Summary-
The disqualification was done in a tournament run by an organization banned by the Olympics.
She participated in tournaments run by this organization with no issues for the last several years.
The organization hasn't said why she was disqualified.
The man spouting the 'trans woman' claims is the leader of the organization. He's a friend of Putin and described as a drug trafficker.
Her disqualification happened after she beat the previously undefeated Russian boxer Amineva 3 days post fight.
There's more in the article, but these are the quick bullet points I came up with.
Troubled Russian ties and corruption in the Olympics.
Lie. They've said their tests found xy chromosomes.
But they haven't said what test they performed to determine this, which would be the norm so the results can be verified.
What is your point? If it's such the norm why hasn't she released the results herself?
Why does she have to? Why would she have a copy of a test allegedly done by a 3rd party that, based on news reports, was just using it as an excuse to eliminate her for beating a Russian opponent?
Do you know she doesn't have the test results? When I get medical tests done I usually do receive the test results.
There are news reports saying she's a man if you care so much about news reports.
It's funny how it works both ways. She doesn't have to release the results. And they don't have to release them so you can verify it either. Playing your own stupid game. Why do they have to release the results?
You seem to be misunderstanding, intentionally I would guess. They claimed they did a test to "confirm" she was not a woman, I'm saying that's a steaming hot load of bullshit and they were just looking for an excuse and they have no results to release.
Please cite your sources saying there are news reports that she's a man.
That doesn't make her not female, or trans. From the Snopes article about this:
There are genetic conditions, termed differences of sexual development, in which biological females are born with XY chromosomes but possess female anatomy, or that affect how a biological female regulates and reacts to testosterone, causing levels typically associated with males. Though there is no independent confirmation that Khelif has these conditions, people born this way would legally be considered female or intersex.
Debates over these issues in the context of women's sports have nothing to do with a purported "woke" or "trans agenda," because such instances involve women who were born as women, identify as women and have not undergone any sex reassignment surgery or procedure to change this fact. That is what IOC spokesperson Mark Adams meant when he clarified to the press "this is not a transgender issue."
Gender-reassignment procedures require significant financial and medical resources. The notion that a woman from a rural western Algerian village who sold scrap metal to support her boxing career would have had the ability to undergo such a procedure in a deeply conservative Muslim country that prohibits the practice is extremely unlikely, at best.
Apparently that is not true. There was a report of test taken and result was xy, but the report was never shown to the public and the lab that took the test has been banned.
Seems they are attacking the wrong group then.
Yes, I believe Rowling was quite misinformed in this aspect.
According to anti-trans people like her, there are only men and women. At birth Khleif was medically determined to be a woman and always lived as a woman. End of story, particularly for people like JKR who think this is a simple issue.
Hey look it's a mouth breathing transphobic science misunderstander
Don't shame, but educate. There's no need to be rude over this.
Sure there is. That mouth breather is refusing to use a woman's feminine pronouns over an unsubstantiated rumour about a minor medical abnormality. They're being ten times as rude as I am.
Where?
Here: https://lemmy.world/comment/11819572
This person uses "they" instead of Khelif's she/her pronouns.
I'm sorry but no. Using gender-neutral language does not describe gender; using 'they' isn't to misgender, it just leaves the gender unspecified.
You can correctly use 'they' for anyone. If they'd said 'he', now that would've been different...
(Edit: typo)
Yeah, it's so minor. I think that commenter is only looking for a reason to be upset on behalf of someone else and use that as an excuse to blow up.
I didn't say they were misgendering her, I said they refused to use her preferred pronouns. Surely you can agree with the factual accuracy of that statement.
I'm about to enjoy blocking you.
The bullshit about XY chromosomes is pretty stupid, which is why the other replier provided an article and a few key points in refutation.
The OP's comment didn't read to me as particularly incendiary, but thanks for labelling them as transphobic and mouth breathing with no precedent! Really appreciate good contributions to discourse like yours.
EDIT: not sure what the downvotes are for. XY chromosomes are not exactly valid for determining sex, much less gender. Women might have Y chromosomes, or even three copies of X. Gender has nothing to do with this at all, in fact.
Using XY as an argument is therefore bullshit.
Even if it's bullshit, there's no need to call someone a mouth breather unprovoked. The other thread seems to be a shitshow anyway, so I'm glad the replier is being called out.
You're welcome, glad to be of service.
Please do bring facts. Then, cite your sources. You have sources, right?
... right?
Narrator: "they do not"