Windows 10 is EOL in October 2025
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/15988326
Windows 10 will reach end of support on October 14, 2025. The current version, 22H2, will be the final version of Windows 10, and all editions will remain in support with monthly security update releases through that date. Existing LTSC releases will continue to receive updates beyond that date based on their specific lifecycles.
Source: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/windows-10-home-and-pro
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You can recommend what you like. As soon as Windows 10 can’t play the latest games I’m off to Linux.
Eat my whole ass, Microsoft.
Come on over, the water is fine. I switched to Pop_OS a few months back for the gaming rig and Proton+Steam works almost flawlessly. Older titles sometimes have hiccups, but so far ive only been blocked on one title.
Yep it's pretty easy and my computer runs so much faster than Windows on the same machine.
Windows running on a VM under linux runs faster than windows on bare metal ...
Not for me, but that might have been a slight exaggeration.
You joke but it actually boots faster in a VM for me than on bare metal. And that’s with fastboot enabled. Would love to know why!
the best jokes have a kernel of truth.
The VM is optimised for the OS, the OS is usually a fresh install with just that 1 program you need to use instead of you're entire life scattered across the desktop, it can be a snapshot of the system in an optimal state right after running an unfuck windows script that removes default system malware which doesn't let it reinstall, it has less system resources to deal with for the simple fact it can't use them all at the same time as the base OS.
Probably a BIOS that has a very well known hardware configuration. It doesn't have to worry about weird legacy shit, it's only ever going to be the VM hardware. (Plus whatever you pass through, but I imagine the BIOS doesn't care, or if it does it'll slow it back down).
I just switched from W10 to Pop_OS and have had lots of trouble. I'm trying to stick with it but from audio glitches to many games not running unless I find a random CLI arg that someone mentioned on Reddit, to my UI freezing, it's not been an easy switch.
Any chance you have an nvidia card? Nvidia for a long time has been in a worse spot on Linux than AMD, which interestingly is the inverse of Windows. A lot of AMD users complain of driver issues on Windows and swap to Nvidia as a result, and the exact opposite happens on Linux.
Nvidia is getting much better on Linux though, and Wayland+explicit sync is coming down the pipeline. With NVK in a couple years it's quite possible that nvidia/amd Linux experience will be very similar.
I wish I still had my AMD card but it decided to brick itself for no apparent reason after it made horrible humming noises whenever it chose to ever since I bought it. I have an Nvidia card now and haven't had a single issue on Windows yet, but maybe my days are counted to the moment I switch to Linux.
Yeah I'm on a 3070, I thought Pop had improvements for Nvidia stuff which is why I chose it.
it's not a drop in replacement and anyone looking for one will be disappointed by literally anything available.
You're learning an entirely new operating system, don't think of it as an upgrade, this is a time sink. You'll be under the hood more than on the road for the foreseeable future, but what's the alternative?
I get that, and I love Linux, it's just annoying to see people say that they switched with 0 issues and trying to sell it off like people won't have problems.
I don't understand why people can't simply believe that someone could actually have very little issues with performance or settings after switching.
What About™ people who have issues when installing windows, as if that never happens.
I put both kinds of operating systems on a myriad of computers and sometimes it's smooth sailing and sometimes it's like stepping on rake after rake.
Its not that I don't believe it, rather they are "selling" Linux as if there won't be any problems, but whoever is making the switch will have to learn about troubleshooting. That's a good thing, but something that they should be aware of.
I don't really have a problem with "selling" Linux. You gotta take all things with a dose of skepticism.
Has anyone ever recommended a product of any complexity as an OS and then also listed all of the common issues people might encounter? When people talk about a product they like, of course it will highlight the positive things, but anyone who has ever touched a computer, hobbyist or not, knows these things might sometimes shit the bed in unexpected ways. I think that's common sense.
Windows is said to have less problems, but the cryptic errors and non descriptive "wait while we do something" message without any other output actually makes solving problems harder. It has more users, so luckily that means someone out there probably has the issue documented so solutions are easier to find.
I use both, at home primarily Linux, at work primarily Windows. I had troubles in both that caused serious headaches, but generally they both work without too much problems.
This might have been a bit rambling 😅
Try bazzite? It's been cool with my setup. Intel processor with GTX 1660 ti.
Mint has been cool too! on a laptop with a 1650 on it
I've seen a lot of people recommending Pop_OS lately. Out of curiosity, what's the benefit over something like Mint?
I'll try to offer an answer to both you and @natedog526.
Pop came heavily recommended for a while because it's relatively light-weight for a modern desktop, had some fresh UI ideas with its COSMIC plugins for Gnome, and ships with some nice bonuses for gamers like built in Steam and Nvidia setup scripts.
Unfortunately, it's become pretty stale lately. I still use it daily on my main desktop, but lately it's becoming harder and harder to keep from hopping to something new. A few pain points include Pop shipping older version of some important software like the Kernel, Wine, and Mesa, persistsant audio bugs like the other user mentioned, and basically no support for Wayland at the moment.
A lot of these are because System76 has been heavily focused working on its COSMIC desktop, which should function a full standalone desktop environment instead of Gnome with duct tape. It's looking forward to seeing it which has so far kept me from switching, but with no release date and other distros offering what Pop offers, it's harder and harder to stay put.
Curious about this too. I was gonna spend some time trying some different distros. Both mint and PopOs are on my list.
If iRacing and my other sim racing gear worked with Linux I'd make the switch asap. I already have popOS on another hard drive and everything other than iRacing has worked well
Looks like iRacing is working on proton experimental as of 3 days ago At least according to a user on protondb
Yup, similar boat but with planes instead of cars. Most inputs Linux can support on a single usb device is 86 or so, my throttle alone has well over 150 buttons on it. Add in all the stuff for my sim cockpit (probably around 1000 buttons), my haptic feedback chair, and then VR… as much as I’d like to use Linux, I don’t think it’d be possible for the foreseeable future for me to switch.
I did the same a few months back. No problems so far. Some older games require switching up the compatibility layer occasionally but no deal breakers so far.
I switched to Pop!_OS about 3 months ago and have been loving it! First Linux distribution that just worked for me, and every app works better than any other Linux or Windows 11 on the same hardware.
Running OpenSUSE Tumbleweed right now and it's great!
We need a successful replacement to DirectX for this to happen.
Look how desperate they are now for their web browser, imagine when people start abandoning Windows because there are other options that work just as well. I can't wait.
Vulkan?
Definitely, I'm not saying that there aren't any viable candidates out there now, but the title base for games that support Vulkan seems to be not even 1/10th of what DirectX 11 can support. It needs more acceptance I guess is what I mean.
Honestly even the as-is directX with Wine is already quite good. With Vulkan, game over :-)
Wine doesn't do DirectX. A wine environment set up for gaming uses DXVK or VKD3D to translate everything to Vulkan.
Wine does do DirectX as well (and did well before DVXK and VKD3D-Proton were a thing). But it translates to OGL instead of Vulkan so it was always relatively slow and has issues with compatibility. There's also some other built in work to translate to Vulkan (including the original VKD3D), but they are behind the third party projects too.
Yes, that was WineD3D, which still has to be used in some cases.
But that's still not DirectX, what I was saying is that you don't actually run DirectX in Wine. You have to translate it to Vulkan or OpenGL.
Not that this stuff isn't part of Wine.
We already do?
DXVK and VKD3D have been translating DirectX 9-12 to Vulkan for a while now, allowing DirectX games and applications to run on hardware and/or operating systems that don't support DirectX.
Intels ARC GPUs don't even support DirectX on a hardware level, like it's just straight up not there. Intels drivers instead just translate it to Vulkan, and their at times insane FPS boosts from driver updates was due to them improving that translation and getting closer to 1:1 performance.
At times, yes. But at most times, no. Certain games can capitalize on ARC and I was just as enthusiastic as everyone else when it first started making the rounds. But theres a reason the cards haven't caught on and most people seem to rely on them more for offloading things like streaming and AV1 encoding/decoding
They're new.
I didn't claim they're worth recommending yet. But AFAIK they're pretty great now, and with more issues worked out on the hardware side, Battlemage has great potential.
I haven't touched my Windows PC since the steam deck came out. If you only care about games you don't need Windows.
That was my choice too. I made the jump to Mint earlier this year and couldn’t be happier. It took a little effort to get updated GPU drivers, and my games sometimes need an extra CLI argument added, but those things have been pretty quickly and easily found on the Mint forums, Ubuntu forums, or ProtonDB comments.
Linux can play most games nowadays. You can check if your games are compatible and to what extend they are not here https://www.protondb.com/
It's funny seeing this every couple of years. People get up in arms about something with Windows, some switch to Linux because they outgrew Windows and the time was right. By now I think you guys could be primary source of Linux users.
Yeah, I’m guilty of this tbh. It’s just the massive unknown of leaving something you’ve been so close to for literally the majority of my life.
It’s scary!
It's little grievances that eventually pile up and one day you'll just have had enough and switch.
Yeah, for me it is the ads. No one likes ads, but I hate ads more than most people. So when Windows started putting more and more 'recommendations' into various places... I've been building up a list of registry tweaks to turn it all off - but as more ads got added, just couldn't tolerate it any more. I installed Mint with dual boot (defaulting to Mint). I thought I'd be booting into Window every so often for one reason or another, but as it happens - the only reason I ever loaded Windows was to check that the dual booting was working.
Switched to arch linux last november, didn’t had to launch my backup VM Win10 at all. I even managed to play at StarCitizen with better performance than under Win 10...
Just wow the progress of Linux, Wine & co since my last linux try (Ubuntu, around 2010).
I just need now to find a linux way for my music stack and all the VST (my steinberg usb card is recognized and play properly oO) and Windows will be history at home...
Yeah ive also had s Star Citizen running in Arch. My setup didnt support game updates though so every update needed a complete redownload of the entire game which got old real fast.
Also had Microsoft Flight Simulator running very well too which is peak irony. At first there was issues with satellite terrain and imagary as the networking was broken but a Proton update actually fixed that.
Im incredibly impressed on the type of heavy duty window games ive got working in linux, some working very well others with slight occasional issues.
Linux gaming isnt perfect but windows has never been either. Ive had plenty of experience over the years with some games just not running properly or at all in windows even though they should.
Ive found many older games generally run better in Linux now in respect to modern windows, despite the compatibility layers.
Why not start today, man? It's good to practice.
Uncertainty, really.
What distro works with my setup: 3700x and rtx 4090?
Folks will say arch.
But honestly any modern Linux system with 3rd party drivers will work. Mint pop_os arch Manjaro Debian Ubuntu etc
I'm running a 1660 and an i5 64xx on kubuntu 24.04 Granted that stuff is older but you'll have the same experience.
Unless you're running the absolute bleeding edge... You'll not have a lot of problems.
*Ymmv of course but majority of folks won't have issues.
The the Arch software repos are incredible and the Arch Wiki is, quite frankly, a work of art that should be celebrated with the same reverence as the Mona Lisa or David's uncircumcised cock.
But anyone recommending Arch to a Linux newbie needs a psych evaluation.
I've lost count of the number of times I've read stories to the effect of, "yeah, a regular package update bricked my desktop, but I just rolled my face across the keyboard and recompiled the offending software and got back to work, no big deal."
Cool. I'm so glad you can do that my guy, I really am. But how the hell do you expect average computer user to figure that out? The first time a software update leaves them at a command prompt with some cryptic GDM error message or a Nvidia kernel panic or something, they're going running back to Billy Gates' warm walled garden embrace. Shit, I like to think I'm half competent with Linux and I'd shit myself if that happened to me.
EDIT: Sorry, @[email protected], I didn't nessicarily mean to direct any of that to you specifically, it's sort of just my standard copy pasta whenever I see Arch reccomded.
Haha I agree arch is the meme recommendation. It has its benefits like you've detailed out.. but it's not for a windows convert. I've ran it, it can require more fiddling than some of the other distros. Tinkering that newbies can't do.
Me I'm an apt man. So I tend to suggest distros that center around that package manager.. it just so happens that they are some of the newbie ones.
I once installed mint on my ex father in laws machine and it ran perfectly for ages for him (with auto updates) They were spending $$$s a quarter on windowa system cleanup due to viruses. As he was an online slot machine / junk flash game player. So of course he would get all the viruses. Once he went mint, he had 0 issues (with the os) the issues he had was more user error with online behavior.
Anyway. No problem for the gruffness of your reply, as I agree with what you've said. :)
Give pop-os a try if you're running an nvidia. It was very much plug and play with my laptop and it works great.
You made my day!
If you had any real intention of making the shift, you'd have done so already. Protip: You know I'm right!
Genuine question, what’s the point of this comment?
The 'as soon as Windows 10 can’t x I'm off to Linux!' refrain is so routine in our circles it's practically a meme. All someone says when they pontificate like this is that their true priority is can kicking rather than action.
I feel like someone who likes Win10 and is used to it would want to use it for as long as they can, before having to change to Linux.
This one is particularly harsh since win11 has ridiculous artificial hard stops on installation based on made up hardware requirements. Also it sucks.
This also makes it easy to block Win 10 from upgrading to 11, just disable tpm in BIOS. From where I'm sitting, that's kinda convenient.
Ok, but where will you be be sitting on Oct. 15th 2025?
That's a Oct 14th 2025 me's problem
That's where you grab a W10 Enterprise LTSC iso which has support until 2032.
Already got a surface running it.
Hol up. So m$ is still making the patches they're just not releasing them to anyone but enterprise users? The whole end of service thing doesn't actually free up any of their resources its just a soulless push for upgrade purchases?
Yep! 100% on the 👃
Where would you... find one of these? For a friend
There are a few copies floating around torrent sites.
Usually it's sku conversion changes so it's not an eval mode.
Or find a friendly neighborhood n3rd who might have one. 😉
Also you can entirely uninstall edge!
Dunno yet, sounds like future me's problem. Mist likely some version of Linux unless win 11 drastically changes course (unlikely).
I imagine they'll have backtracked on this decision long before then.
I have a PC I built that was absolutely top of the line 9½ years ago, that still plays most games in high to max settings. It's a little powerhouse for its age, I often use it for rendering video and it still smokes everybody I know 's devices.
Windows 11 is too powerful for my PC according to Microsoft and I've been so pleased about that. If it wasn't for the fact that I have no issues with my current windows 10 setup, I'd put in some time to jump to Linux. I'm just too lazy to give it the weekend it would take to learn, set up and move my content over properly.
Well to my knowledge there are (or at least were) workarounds to get win 11 to install anyway. It of course worked fine, despite saying it needed a TPM and/or specific minimum CPU.
From an eWaste perspective Microsofts decision to force literally millions of PCs into fake obsolescence is obviously horrible. And I honestly have no idea what their motivation even was for this.
As for trying Linux, these days it really isn't even a weekend. Sure if you want to tinker and learn, you can invest a weekend. But if you want to just use the PC just pick any of the commonly recommended distros and just go. It's installed in minutes and you can honestly just use the PC for whatever you used to use it before. Just backup/move your data off it and you got nothing to lose but like an hour, if it really doesn't work as you need it to.
I've the newest AMD hardware available and I'm not able to upgrade. No idea what they want.
Hopefully you bought your fully assembled pc with an official Microsoft sticker already on the case right?
I've built the pc myself.
Lemmy probably isn't the target audience for this, here's the steps to bypass the MS account requirement when setting up W11:
Configure your keyboard, but before you select your wifi network press Shift+(Fn)+F10 to open Command Prompt.
Type in the following command and press enter. Your computer will reboot: oobe\bypassnro
After the reboot, configure your keyboard and location settings, and click the option at the bottom of the page to say that you don't want to connect to the internet
Click the link on the next page to "Continue with limited setup", then follow the prompts to enter a username and password.
If you use rufus to make a windows usb you can select to not require Microsoft account and bypass tpm right in the program, just get a windows 11 iso off the site instead of media creation tool
Having checked a few Reddit threads by the Rufus dev, this seems the way to go!
Thank you. Now that I've showed you my appreciation, are you fucking kidding me?
Lemmy is exactly the audience for this, thanks!
It just seems like there are are more Linux users because they're constantly bleating about it in smug, self-congratulary comments
Also, if you have windows 11 pro, you can do:
If you have windows 11 home you can:
I do this shit at least three times a week at my job. It's the fuckin worst.
I wouldn't try it for a permanent machine as it could backfire when Microsoft trys to enforce it and could lock up the machine somehow (because bigs not because evil corpo)
Great mini guide.
I love the weasel words "continue with limited setup" that Microsoft uses.
I agree, but I find something else even more weasel-y and annoying when I'm adding a second user to an already-configured W11 computer. If I'm adding them as a local account without a Microsoft account, I'll use Tab to navigate through the process of creating a username, password, and security questions. After the last security question, I'll hit tab to navigate to the "Okay" button at bottom left of the window, which seems like a reasonable expectation. Instead, Windows will highlight the "Back" button at the bottom right. If you aren't paying attention and hit enter or space bar, you have to start all the way back at the beginning.
I know that is a small dumb complaint, but when I'm setting 5 computers up in a row and tabbing through everything, my habits get the better of me, and I'll have to redo it two or three times out of the five.
Legit complaint!
This sounds like a problem for October 2025 me
Haha I remember having to help a school upgrade to Windows 7. Took a year just to get the approval, then another year to get the budget and keys.
Yup. Microsoft's income depends on keeping them on the move.
That's my feeling. I've been through this before.
October 2025 me: what the hell, why didn't anyone tell me about this before!?!
Same.
And if it's like the last four Windows updates, I'll go right through EoL for a year or two, and finally upgrade because I wanted to play a specific video game, upgrade my graphic card, or it came free with my new PC.
I really want to see the EU force Microsoft to release a stripped down version that continues to support older hardware.
Why? Only hardcore computer nerds would ever want that.
Because a bunch of government and business uses 10 and they really don't want "Recall AI" in there for a plethora of reasons.
Then they can use LTSC until 2027 or pay for extended service until 2028. After that, they'll just be unsupported.
I'm sure there's going to be a group policy setting to disable the Recall AI thing anyway.
You can disable Recall with a simple on/off toggle in the settings pane.
Kind of feels like giving my toddler a loaded gun, but saying that it's safe because the safety is on.
A devastating amount of computer hardware is about to be e-wasted because they decided to drop support for anything older than roughly 2017/2018.
It's an arbitrary limitation as people have succeeded in forcing it to work on much older hardware that still works well enough for your avg person.
Additionally, windows used to be a tool now it's a platform for them to essentially market any number of things and user privacy appears to be the least important thing on the table.
The only reason we don't see mass adoption of Linux has been 4 decades of software development and marketing that let's them continue to wear their crown.
A regulatory party needs to humble them and return windows to being a tool.
Imagine if the gasoline companies one day announced that they will be changing gas so only cars bought in the last 5 years or so could refuel.
Now imagine if to buy a car you had to tolerate cameras and other forms of tracking your telemetry just to get to work and feed yourself.
Lunacy yes? They took the "my" out of my computer.
Fun fact, there were still computers being manufactured with CPUs that don't support Windows 11 in 2020, got one of those at work that we will need to replace before then. Thankfully only one, so it's not too big of a deal.
They've already effectively did this, and by they I mean the US government mandated it. 5% ethanol has been mandated since 2006, and 10% since 2012. If your car is too old (lots of 90s cars) you'll have to find a gas station that has ethanol free fuel.
I've read this a few times. If ethanol is mandated how are there stations with ethanol free? Do they just have a pay an extra tax or something?
It’s allowed for certain types of vehicles, so people illicitly put it in to regular vehicles as well and gas stations turn a blind eye.
It’s not illicit to put non ethanol gas in any vehicle, and even if it were would you actually expect gas stations to confirm the type of vehicle that’s getting fuel for every transaction before the customer is allowed to swipe their card and fill up?
You may be confusing ethanol free gas with off road diesel, which is basically just lower taxed and not dyed. Even then it’s not up to the gas station to police who buys it.
I think actually I was thinking the extra-high octane gas labeled 'for collector vehicles only'.
The real thing stopping mass adoption of Linux is that few people want to fiddle around with their machines to that degree. For the vast majority of users, it just needs to run and be able to run whatever programs are needed, and the easier it is to do so, the better.
The majority of computer owners use their machine to open a web browser and maybe an email client.
Surely that can be done on any OS.
Correct, and those people aren’t going to jump through hoops finding a distro and drivers when they can just install windows and call it a day
This
And when I run into issues, I would rather be using the OS that is the most common so that I have more options to get good info for a fix. I don't want problems that nobody's ever encountered, or for which the fix is beyond my limited technical ability.
It's somewhat amusing when I see people on Lemmy proselytizing for Linux and literally while laying out their points to convince someone how easy it is, they'll talk about doing shit that is already beyond my ability. And I'm not some 90 year old who struggles to turn it on. I'm just a user that doesn't care to use any OS that I'll need to take time to learn to figure out how to use it.
When I start a Windows machine I just do what I need to do.
When even a Linux cheerleader is trying to convince someone how easy it is, they're already indicating more effort than I want to put into it.
Sorry to be the bearer of depressing news, but that's basically already happening in new cars.
https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/blog/privacy-nightmare-on-wheels-every-car-brand-reviewed-by-mozilla-including-ford-volkswagen-and-toyota-flunks-privacy-test/
https://jacobin.com/2024/03/car-spying-insurance-surveillance-data/
Why should they have to support Windows 10 when Linux would run fine on your 'old' machine? That really puts the 'yours' back in your computer, no need for a company to do it for you.
Yeah and abandon so much in the process.
Linux is wonderful and works plenty fine, but as a civilization we are not ready. There's still so much that won't work out of the box, for most manufacturers it's an after thought if any at all.
You can't walk into your avg store and be like I want a computer with Linux that will play fortnite.
You can't blindly buy a video game or a multifunctional printer without serious consideration.
Unlike Windows where it's the established norm that it will work 100% of the time.
Sure you can argue that a user should just learn to deal with that and teach themselves how to install Linux and cope with whatever comes up.
But that's just unfair to grandma and anyone else that hasn't made computers a hobby.
I have two Surface Pros that are BIOS locked so I can't install Linux. They also don't support Win11.
I'm not sure what I can do with them.
I am full of rage by proxy, sorry to hear that. I've been thinking of only buying coreboot motherboards from now on, but that's easier said than done.
>.>
<.<
...no reason.
Can they do that?
It's not out of the realm of possibility. They have been known to force Microsoft to make changes in the past. As well as Apple and other major software companies.
Edit: Grammar
Shouldn’t they just support Linux more? Maybe fund some driver development but otherwise - win?
One would think.
Linux costs next to nothing compared to Windows. So if companies want to cry about having to save on budget, go with the better option for it.
Who the fuck needs Office 365? Nothing has really changed on that software for years, it's still the same shit. I don't see anything different on Microsoft Word 2007 from it's 365 counterpart. People are getting scammed.
The UI keeps changing...
My gf recently took one of those dumb ability tests on Indeed for an office job, shows you two screenshots of document editing and you answer which buttons achieve the desired effect. I opened Word on my laptop and all of the buttons were in different places compared to screenshots.
MS, just go sit down somewhere and stop fiddling with shit
BuT It HaS aI SuPpOrT NoW!
What a selling point.
I'm not too familiar with that side of things but I do believe they do. My understanding is that some organizations are set up as nonprofits and they contribute to the development of Linux.
Some European governments also use foss software for things like email and office.
But it's easier to throw darts at a big company than lots of small things that add up to something big.
It already exists. Most of the requirements that break with current W10 machines are artificial and can be removed at install time with rufus (memory requirement, secure boot, TPM2, microsoft account).
Still not a solution; you should not have to fight against your OS design choices that much.
I wouldn't be surprised to see the EU require M$ to remove the artificial requirements and let 10 users on older hardware update.
Yeah it's nice to know I have to build a new machine next year whether I want to or not. I've been coasting on a desktop PC I built circa 2015 because the thing works still. Problem is it doesn't meet the hardware reqs (TPM 2.0) to upgrade to Win 11.
Whether I build a machine in 2025 or not I think I will be making the switch to daily driving Linux. I am sick of the amount of time the end user has to spend debloating Windows and blocking its telemetry.
So September 2025ish is when I need to decide which Linux distro to go with.
You can start by putting Linux on that old machine. I'd use Linux Mint to begin with.
Why wait with the switch until 2025?
Because theres no need to buy new hardware until then and the planned parts might get cheaper or a new deal is offered.
For example my planned motherboard was on sale with a local seller because they opened a new location and offered a 20% discount on Asus parts.
I think they meant why wait to switch to Linux not the why wait to purchase newer hardware.
Yup, They did.
You can bypass the TPM 2.0 requirements by pulling in your Windows 11 ISO into Rufus and then selecting to remove the TPM requirement in the prompt.
Drawback is when updating to new major releases of win11 (so I've heard) that you have to edit the registry.
Just going Linux is way cleaner.
I suggest slowly switching to cross platform apps so you don't find out an app you're using daily won't work after moving to Linux.
Are there TPM modules that one can drop in to motherboards to add that? I have TPM module headers, I keep wondering if I can get one to use with LUKS.
I think switching to Linux is the right choice regardless though.
Their hardware requirents don't make sense at all. I've built my new PC last summer with the best AMD tech available and I don't meet the requirements for some reason.
Time to learn Linux!
If they really wanted people to upgrade to Windows 11, they'd take out the TPM and SecureBoot requirements.
Truly the Kinect of Windows 11.
I still miss the Kinect. Shouting at people in Skyrim was awesome. They should have doubled down and added finger recognition for the Series K.
upgrades don't give them license fees, they want you to buy a new pc.
It looks like Windows 10 is going to be my last Windows operating system. Thanks to Microsoft.
I installed Linux Mint for the first time the other day and I’m thoroughly enjoying myself.
Thanks M$ for getting me to enjoy my pc again, as a Linux.
Same! It’s been great.
This is what will push me over to Linux too, just will be procrastinate a bit because I don't have lots of time to work out all the kinks
Excited to see the increase in Linux desktop usage.
I'd temper those expectations tbh. I've still got customers on Windows XP.
Out of support does not mean "can't be used".
"Finally freed of those pesky Windows updates!"
I agree. But using Windows XP these days is a huge security risk. W10 not getting security updates at least for the next 2 years is probably something that can be overlooked, but it will at some point be vulnerable to automatic attacks like XP. I'm sure there are some websites on the web that try to automatically exploit some major exploits that have been lrft unfixed in Windows XP. I'd advise them to switch to Linux Mint or something instead of using that old vulnerable system.
The browser is the failure point and they get updated for a long time after the OS falls out of support. Chrome was supported for 8 years after Windows 7 stopped being officially supported.
All their Windows software they need to run their business isn't going to run reliably enough on any version of Linux. They don't want to touch anything that's working or pay for anything. You have to understand the world is not filled with OS enthusiasts. It's just a platform to run other things. If it's working and it's making you money, you do not touch it, unless you really want to find out what OS they use at the Job Centre.
I have an elderly friend that I will probably need to migrate as 1 of their 2 computers doesn’t support win11. I am fully able to migrate them, but I really want it themed(Plasma6 probably ) to look as much like 10 as they a dealing with cognitive decline and I don’t want to force them to relearn using their computer.
I need to start investigating, but I got over a year to do so. The other part is making sure the 2 pieces of proprietary software they use runs in wine. I expect both will, but need to check.
This is obviously something that developers probably don’t think about as much as an accessibility issue in general.
Yeah KDE Plasma looks and functions alot like W10.
I was thinking about this the other day. I support some very, very technologically limited users and I wondered if anyone out there is working on a distro/DE that looks and feels just enough like windows to get them by
I would never have considered this before they announced Recall. Now it feels like I'm waiting to see just how hard they push it
You might want to check our React OS.
I'm typing this from Linux mint, I play mainly video games and websurf but I choose this distro for the community support! Since I don't know everything about linux I go here on lemmy, or reach out to the members via hexchat
I'm already seeing more traffic across reddit and youtube
As a long time Windows user, my SSD just shat itself last week. MS has been pissing me off with the constant "upgrade to Windows 11" messages that I've finally taken steps to change over to Linux. My experience has been as follows:
Brand new Linux user and you already hate Ubuntu, welcome, you are fitting in perfectly already. Half the things didn't work probably because of their dumb Snap garbage.
For anyone else reading this and thinking about trying linux for the first time, be sure to use Linux Mint. It will give you the smoothest and easiest experience, and you pretty much never need the terminal. It even comes with a really nice software store (but everything is free).
Second this. Wanted Linux as Windows user. Currently on Linux Mint, got it a few months now. Really easy to use, and allows you to experiment with the console if you'd like to, but almost never necessary. So far, I haven't encountered any problems with it (apart from a total lock-out while trying some weird shit in the console with printer drivers, but printers are evil anyway, so I'll give it a pass for now lmao)
Its the Data harvesting that's irking me. Not that data harvesting is new; but that i have a dreadful sense of M$' "AI" scheming just crosses a rubicon of data harvesting.
I'm backing away slowly. Dont care what games or executables i wont be able to run. Get ready for the accusations that im the "radical arch-loving myopic lemmy elite": it's finally time to run *nix as host.
Year Of The Linux Desktop
Well this will be the month where I install PopOS
I'd recommend doing a dual boot sooner and slowly shifting your files & apps. It took me about 3 months to find a distro and desktop environment i like, get my apps or alternatives installed, and get used to it.
If you wait until EOL, you may be overwhelmed and frustrated, increasing the likelihood of calling quits and accepting Windows 11.
Thanks for the advice. I have run Fedora in the past so I have an idea of the alternatives I need. I will probably listen to your wisdom and dual boot
I'm enjoying Pop_OS for 3 months now. No issues.
i cant access my laptops bios anymore tho after installing pop os
systemctl reboot --firmware-setupThat will reboot to UEFI setup instantly.
oh thank you i will try
Ten years of support is not that bad actually. Having said that, Linux is better in almost every way.
"Linux is better in every way except for those use cases specifically tailored by Microsoft & associates to not play ball with Linux".
ftfy. Fuck corporations.
I think while this is true, it's the time you have to switch over is much smaller.
Windows XP kept being supported until 2014, and up to that point you had Windows Vista (2007), Windows 7 (2009) and Windows 8 (2012). That's 7 years users had to move over.
Even if you consider something like Windows 7 with a shorter support cycle ending in 2020, you had Windows 8 (2012) and Windows 10 (2015), giving you 8 years to cave in and upgrade.
Windows 11 came out in 2022, and you have 3 years not to just upgrade the OS, but in a lot of cases your hardware too. I think this is why everyone is feeling the squeeze moreso than previously.
I have been running Linux for some time now, still had a Windows partition for gaming. Then I switched the motherboard and windows decided I no longer had a key for it... I stopped playing most of the windows exclusive games. Since last week I can't even boot anymore, something about missing drivers. Spent a day trying to fix it. Today I decided fuck it and I'm just leaving it behind! It makes no sense wasting so much energy on a vastly inferior OS that actively tries to fight me.
The reason for this is that Windows builds an identifier based on the hardware of the machine on which it is installed. When that identifier doesn't match, it throws a flag that says "Hey now ..." I think that you still get a couple of "honor system passes" before the installed OS enforces anything.
Once that gets enforced, you can call Microsoft Clearinghouse, "I upgraded my hardware," and they'll give you a new key to enter.
Whereas on Linux I recently upgraded the motherboard on my machine from a B350 to a B550, stripping it down to it's parts and rebuilding. Different network chip, audio chip, WiFi and Bluetooth, etc, etc. 6 SSDs plugged back in in a shuffled order.
Linux booted and worked first time, adjusting which drivers it used automatically, mounting all the drives in their original locations. Similar thing when I upgraded my GPU. Admittedly the old one was AMD, same as the new one, but there was about 4 or 5 generations between them. CPU upgrades too.
I've got a real machine of Theseus here. I think my case and my heatsink is all that's left from the original.
...oh...and the OS.
Windows will do the exact same thing. It'll even boot and run just fine, only telling you that Windows isn't activated. And you can get vendor support if you need it. I had a Windows system that started as XP and got upgraded and passed around among newer and newer hardware up to Windows 11 with nary a problem.
Apparently there is 2 types of Windows licences. The ones that are bound to the hardware and ones that aren't. If you bought a PC with preinstalled Windows, it's probably the first and you wont get any new keys.
I think you're right that OEM licenses are more strict on certain hardware changes, as in they wouldn't give you a pass on a single mainboard change - but you would still get a key from clearinghouse. As far as I'm aware, all retail and OEM keys are hardware bound. KMS/MAK are not.
Same. Windows 95 was the last MS install on my personal machine.
Oh fucking great. My daughter's online school requires her to run "Windows 8 or greater," but we got her a used laptop that can run 10 to make sure it can keep up with security updates. I don't even know if it is powerful enough to run 11 because I didn't even consider the possibility when I bought it. Now we're going to have to buy a new one in a couple of years?
Fuck you Pierson and Microsoft.
Thanks, I'll look into that. I appreciate it!
You can use massgrave to activate it, microsoft support has been caught using it to activate windows on customers computers.
massgeave activation is new to me.
is that paid?
It's free!
Do they actually require it or do they "require" it.
A lot of things that are browser based "require" Windows or Mac but don't actually require it.
I don't particularly care to risk my daughter's education by trying to figure that out.
Get a live-USB and check it. Maybe you get a surprise.
lmao
Get a live-USB and check it. Maybe you get a surprise.
Oh christ...
If I could afford a lawyer, I wouldn't be concerned about having to buy a new notebook for her.
Most laptops that ship with windows 10 are capable of running 11. I recommend finding out if the schools provides a license. When I was attending Phoenix online a couple years ago they supplied me with a windows 10 education license through Microsoft.
It does not unfortunately.
Of Note, Microsoft has a block on a lot of people moving to 11 without buying new computers. This will solidify their position as a corporate provider over personal devices and give more fuel to either Apple or Open Source.
What a coincidence. I had to install a W11 machine for a relative. The amount of backward decision in the first 20 minutes of checking the settings is mind boggling. Really? Can't open the start menu on "all apps"? Not even an option?
I got a new machine and put windows on it and the amount of registry tweaks to get it even close to my windows 10 is ridiculous. Significantly more than what I had to do to 10 to make it a bit more like 7 back in the day. (I know i know get linux, but you can't play Dragon Ball FighterZ online with linux and that's the game I play the most)
Fortunately, the number of Linux compatible games is increasing, and companies are actually considering Linux support now for games. I doubt that particular game will get Linux multiplayer support (who knows!), but maybe the next game you get into will!
So for anyone else who reads this: give Linux a shot! If it doesn't work for your games, try again in a year or so.
Oh 100% give Linux a try. I run pop-os on my 10 year old gaming laptop and it runs way better than it ever did on windows. I'm sure if I put Linux on my desktop it would be even better. I just play too much dbfz and the console version has way too much latency for me to have fun on it anymore
Windows has been more about telling you what you want instead of being intuitive for a few iterations now.
"Intuitive" is basically telling you what you want and being right about it.
The opposite of telling you what you want isn't being intuitive, it's being flexible and customizable.
Ok sure. But I think we can all agree when we click the start menu we don't want "recommended" apps. I don't want to click start and click apps to see the list.
I also can't be the only one that hates clicking start or pressing the windows key and typing in "word" or something then have it taken a bazillion years to search the web, and have hit or miss results or whether it suggests the app or some shitty web results.
It's also counter intuitive to remove features that already exist. Like right clicking the start button for useful shortcuts. Or right clicking the task bar for other things like the task manager (which they ended up bringing back, surprisingly). They also removed moving the task bar. These are things that already existed. They removed them. They didn't need to rebuild them. They were deliberate.
WiNdOwS 10 wIlL bE tHe LaSt WiNdOwS
I switched to Arch a month ago because of Microsoft forceful integration of their shit AI tools into 11. Easy switch.
you wouldn't believe how many middle class families and small businesses in southeast asia are officially fucked
Hi, KDE. Can we be friends?
Yeah... I'm not gonna worry about it until maybe September next year.
September, the year after... maybe.
Do I trust hackers or Microsoft less with my gaming partition?
At this point, I can use Linux for most things except older fangames, reliable printing (seriously, cups is pain), and some mmorpgs.
Once I get a month without the university shitting its pants and changing policy overnight, I'll eat the learning curve and switch (actually learn to troubleshoot wine rather than relying on searches).
When I move, thinking mint with cinnamon because I love that desktop.
Being serious: what MMORPG or old game isn't able to run on Proton or Wine by now?
Literally everything I've tossed at Linux Mint and told "use proton 9" has just worked? Currently playing the most heavily modded FNV run I've ever done while also experiencing actually 0 crashes for the first time and I'm not actually 100% sure how that's happening?
I've been shocked with Linux's game capabilities through proton 9 at this point and would love to hear of a use case where it's not working just to see if I could get it working for the fun of it if I get some time
It's hilarious because it was FAR easier for me to get printing going on my Linux machine than with W10. It's an old printer, 1320n from HP, maybe 15 years old, but the damn thing is amazing for document printing, and I had to hunt for drivers and do a lot of compatibility shit to get my computer to recognize it. Arch (EndeavourOS) seemed to just natively recognize the printer and gave me zero fuss. When I was using Ubuntu, I used CUPS and it wasn't terrible. I liked it better than driver fishing, for sure.
I have had pretty much no problems printing, probably because I got a good printer (Brother laser printer). It just works every time.
I'm dreading what will happen at work. I even paid for the Win11 upgrade on my personal desktop, used it for a month and then installed Mint and never looked back. Not being able to move the start bar is such a minor thing, but it's a great indicator of how locked down that PoS is and how little they care about what users want.
Microsoft won't let me upgrade with an i7 6700K
I built a new PC last year and installed Windows 11. I honestly have no issues with jt and it runs fine. However the shitty practices of current Microsoft have started appearing and ground my gears. So much so that I got a second drive and installed Mint. It's not been easy adjusting and I often find myself booting into Windows for one reason or another but I spend the majority of my time now in Linux. I got a bit bored of Mint. I'm a sucker for new things so I moved to Arch. After installing a few packages I'm actually pretty happy with it. Proton has been the key for my move. Without it I simply wouldn't be able to use Linux.
Outside of Windows, moving away from Chrome, GMail and Google search it's a breath of fresh air. I don't feel like I'm constantly being tracked now and having products thrown in my face. I miss the old internet where harvesting everyone's data wasn't a thing.
I'd love to comply, but unfortunately the last time I tried Windows 11, my Ethernet and WiFi quit working and I had to roll back ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ how do you screw up something as basic and necessary as the internet connection?
If memory serves me, they usually do 5 years of extended support after they retire an os, so, I'm just going to wait and see.
I’ve decided I’m gonna have one crapbox prebuilt just for the windows things and nothing important or personal, but my work laptop and pc will most certainly not be windows going forward. I have a lot to learn but I’m over it with the ads and the privacy stuff is a genuine concern for work related items.
Windows 10 21H2 LTSC IoT support ends in 13th Jan 2032. Just saying.
Or Arch...
And where does one get LTSC?
Yarr, matey.
I'd recommend asking around lemmy.dbzer0.com, in the sailing community.
But it'd be easier to switch to Linux Mint, if you don't have a critical windows app that doesn't work in wine.
Also @[email protected]
Ooooo thanks
Fu win11 with its abundance of spyware and ai bs
I've got money on Microsoft putting a dead man switch in the last win10 update
I'm picturing in my mind, that they'll add an overlay that takes up your whole screen on login after October '25 that'll just say "Upgrade to Windows 11 now!" That you can't close.
But I don't want to buy all new hardware! Thought MS was sustainable. Instead MS is BS.
Always has been.
And I've been using Microsoft since my first computer in 1984. Recently got DOS 2.0 with hacked FAT16 running on my first computer, would have blown my mind back then.
It will be interesting to see how this impacts the market share lol.
Probably not much, sadly.
Yeah, IMO the majority of people that can switch to Linux already have. The rest are locked in by software they need for their livelihood that only works on Windows. Ofc you can tell them about WINE, but that doesn't always work very well and is outside of the comfort zone for most people (including me, who's been using Ubuntu since 2016).
My PC that I've just built last summer is not able to upgrade to W11 despite still having the best AMD components available. How is this going to work out?
Edit: I figured it out. I needed to reset my CPU settings in BIOS. Now my system reaches the requirements.
and we still can't get vmware to run properly on our company laptops. current theory is p/e core scheduling shenanigans. it's only been two years, what can you expect from the global leaders in virtualization and os.
i swear, before i upgrade I'll move my team to Linux. I've been mainlining debian for six years without issues, INCLUDING RUNNING VMWARE.
Who knows, by then Broadcom may drive VMware into the ground too, making the whole thing moot!
we use vmware because customers do. if they migrate - which they might because of the licensing thing - we will too. so it's an actual possibility already.
fingers crossed!
Dude fuck VMWare honestly
I'd bet any money they will go under in a few years, nobody is deploying a new vmware system after the shit Broadcom pulled
Linux Mint FTW! Changed partly because of this and partly because of all the ads, bloatware, spyware etc etc
The period after MS stopped messing with it and before software stopped supporting it was the nicest time to use Windows 7, I expect it to be the same for Windows 10.
Looking forward to the sudden, definitely inexplicable, price increase of specific hardware at about the nine month mark.
I've heard you can pay to continue updates on Win10 for three years I believe it was.
Yeah but who is going to do that outside business customers with strict requirements? Raise your hand if you ever even paid for a Windows license in the first place (other than one that came with the PC).
Jokes on them, over the last year or so I've installed Nobara, Mint & Xubuntu on every PC in my house.
So done with Windows.
The only thing holding me back from Linux (Nobara) is that my AxeFX's USB drivers don't seem to work. Losing the UI and USB recording capability is a huge deterrent.
Unless you're on Enterprise/Education - 2027
I don't really know what I'll do. I currently have to dual boot windows 10 for work since I do unreal game dev. I guess push for managers to allow me to setup a Linux dev env? But Linux binaries for third party plugins arent always there. That's where I got stuck last time I tried.
Will they start supporting old CPUs? I couldn't install Windows 11 on my pre-gen-8 intel laptops, so I had to go with 10.
Nope, but they will support Linux. All the users who do not want Windows 11, AI spying on them, or don't want to buy new hardware, will be going to Linux. So thank you in advance Microsoft, we appreciate it.
How is Linux scheduling with intel's heterogonous CPUs? 12th gen and later?
I have no idea. I'm rocking a Dell Latitude from like 2014 with an Intel Core i3 something.
Ah well I have a 13th gen laptop I use primarily for emulation on-the-go, so if linux was even halfway decent, I'd probably switch it over.
Any guide on how to buy used laptops?
Step 1. Go onto Craigslist or similar
Step 2. Search for used laptops
Step 3. Pay for laptop
Step 4. Profit
Then what ?
gooning session
I was already doing that !
Buy what businesses buy in bulk (e.g. thinkpad x1)
Put it on its own vlan behind a firewall and permit only what is required.
Windows 10 LTSC 2021 ends support in 2027 (although it doesn't matter quite as much). And it's likely that the Win 11 LTSC later this year will necessarily be free from much of 11's bullshit. Linux is still the right call, but for those of us who need to run a Windows machine for whatever reason, there are alternatives, so, you know... yarr.
I am using windows on my desktop mainly for gaming and with proton even that wouldn't be necessary but there are times when you need to execute a windows binary and it would take less time to just use windows. So after october 2025 I will try to use KVM with PCI passthrough. I imagine another advantage will be to not have windows accessing my hardware and be able to snapshot the drives plus running all the windows traffic about my vpn without relying on software inside windows.
I have an ancient PC with a nice video card, and it plays games from about five years ago quite well I haven’t felt a need to upgrade. Unfortunately, I play a couple games with kernel level anti-cheat stuff and I don’t think they will work with linux.
They will not but that is not a linux' fault, developer/owner/publisher made that choice.
What's wild is that one of the people who write anti-cheat software was saying they needed to get their shit working on Linux like yesterday.
So I mean, it crazy that Windows is literally having some folks scramble on how to get their shit working on Steam/Linux.
I don't want that kind of anti-cheat on GNU/Linux. It is invasive to the point of being all-seeing spyware. If one cares so little about one's privacy and system integrity, one should go back to M$ Windows.
I'm worried about my Steam library. Steam ended support for Windows 7 not long ago. How long will they Support Windows 10?
Only 3% of Windows users are on Windows 7. Compared to 70% on Windows 10. When that number drops significantly, that’s around the time I’d expect Steam to drop. They’ll go where their customers go.
You should be worried about being on any Windows computer connected to the Internet that Microsoft is no longer patching period...
We recommend moving to linux eheh (͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Controversial Take:
Windows 11 is actually decent
It’s 10 with some extra BS. It runs. But I wouldn’t call it decent. Definitely a controversial take ;)
Take my upvote not because I agree, but because you are brave! ;)
The major problems isn't Windows 11 usability, although those issues due exist. UI and workflow issues can typically get addressed, or mitigated, by 3rd party tools.
The real concerns are the exponential increases in spyware, such as the AI recovery tool that records all user interactions, or the native advertising inside of the system itself e.g. Start Menu ads.
If native AI data collection and advertising is baked into all nooks and crannies of the system, the ability of users to mitigate those threats becomes extraordinarily difficult, if not impossible to completely resolve.
You can turn off Recall with a simple toggle in the settings.
There's no need to switch operating systems, just turn it off.
Even if you trust that one feature will actually be disabled, that was just one example.
Do you really believe you can disable and remove all of the numerous data collection and spyware components that are baked into all aspects of the OS?
I'm not saying no one should use Windows 11, but they should be honest with themselves about the trade-off they're accepting.
The other one mentioned was the start menu ads. Those can also be turned off with a simple toggle in the settings. Finding this was as simple as Googling "turn off windows start menu ads", it was the top result.
Yes. Because Windows is used by a lot of big giant corporations that would sue the hell out of Microsoft if it wasn't possible to disable those features.
First of all, there are specialised Enterprise distributions of M$ Windows. Furthermore, what ground would any company have to sue M$ on what the latter put in their own operating system?
I work for a big giant corporation and plenty of its computers don't run Enterprise Windows.
A lawsuit would come in the case that Microsoft was lying about whether you could disable those features. Microsoft has put toggles for them into the settings, if it turns out that those toggles don't actually disable the things they claim to disable then that's where Microsoft is going to face legal issues. Do you really think Microsoft cares enough about the tiny portion of their customer base that's going to change the default settings that they would risk that sort of lawsuit to "spy" on them?
Yes. Just like you can turn off a bunch of the windows 10 crap with registry keys and tools. Why. Why does a user need to go to such lengths to make their OS they paid for not soy on them and deliver them ads?
"Oh it's not that bad!" You'll say. Ya. Windows 10 wasn't THAT bad for it. Then came 11. Then 12 will come. Inch by inch it will turn to shit more and more, and that is the point.
But this really isn't a registry key or tool, though. Did you click my link? It's a simple on/off toggle in the system settings menu. You just open the settings and click "off." I don't see how much simpler they could make it.
You need to consider the bigger picture. Not this specific thing.
I haven't had to edit the registry in as long as I can remember. Not just for this specific thing. What stuff are you talking about?
Do you trust that its off? Or just off for You?
I trust that Microsoft fears the lawsuits that would ensue if they were caught lying about it, and that they wouldn't derive any significant benefit from lying about it. Why would they?
Because legal fees and fines are the cost of doing business for Big AdTech
give us 3 reasons why
The funny thing is I use Mac Linux and Windows daily. Windows 11 on my surface. This is my business computer. Mac for the employer I work for. Linux for my personal desktop. 11 crashes all the time. Start menu and task bar glitches. Random UI elements not loading properly. I frequently need to restart explorer.exe. I get thunderbolt dock issues and glitches. This does not occur on the MacBook. Or my old windows 10 work laptop.
I actually like 10 now. 11 is hot trash. I'll take 12 over it so far from what we know of it.
Whereas I use Windows 11 on all of my machines, including one I use for my job as a programmer and regularly put through the wringer, and I don't actually know what the Windows 11 version of the blue screen of death looks like because I have never crashed the OS. I can't recall the last time I saw a bug like what you're describing, either. So I don't know what you're doing wrong with your Windows 11 install, but it seems I've somehow avoided it without particularly trying.
Me neither, I have mainly Microsoft software on there. It's Microsoft's own tablet lol. It probably would help if I reinstalled but I can't be bothered. It "works".
I wonder if it would make sense to sell 4090 and buy cheaper amd card before Linux switch. Problem is I from time to time play VR and also do blender sometimes so probably can’t. Does nv optix work in Linux ver of blender?
Try Bazzite and see if that works for you. They are focused on gaming and hardware support.
I don't know how good it is, but for Turing and later GPUs there's a new official open source driver being developed. You'd likely have to use a more bleeding edge distro to get that.
VR works depending on your headset. Index is fine, Oculus doesn't work.
You could make a usb stick of your desired distro and test everything without permanent changes before commiting.
Yep optix works on Linux. Blender is also generally faster in Linux btw.
Lucky I already upgraded OS to not include any Micro$hit.
Micro$quash makes 80 BEELYUN dollars a year in pure unadulterated profit, but it can’t keep security updates coming.
Well. I mean, they can, hahaha . . .ahh but they’re not going to.