Does anyone else notice an uptick of extreme troll accounts?
I swear, every time most of the time I see someone being particularly rude, ignorant, and inappropriate on a post (usually political in origin, or they swing it to being political) I click on their profile and see it has been created that same day.
They are only there to sow discord. Only to piss people off. Idk if we can just report them (for what?) but I'd like to try exposing them before responding and interacting..
I am guilty of gobbling up the bait. I've started looking at profiles of people that piss me off exceptionally and noticed they're burner bot loser accounts.
I guess i just want to say I've noticed it!
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Voyager has a setting to show a baby emoji next to the name of a user if their account is less than a month old and an account age. Probably one of the best features I've ever seen for immediately recognizing troll accounts.
There's already an issue on lemmy-ui for it.
Love this comment from that GitHub page...
The only problem though is a lot of time astroturfers/bots create accounts and then just let them sit idle for 6-9 months before using them.
Maybe you could combat that by deleting inactive accounts that seemed to never have been used.
But they can get around that. It's a never ending battle against that kind of stuff.
Yeah exactly.
The filtering would had to be more sophisticated, instead of an age by date, maybe an age by number of posts within an amount of time, etc.
But astroturfers/bots can work with that too, to a certain extent.
nice. would love something like that on a web interface.
Voyager started as a progressive web app. vger.app. I prefer it to Lemmy’s interface even on computer.
I love that he called it "vger"
👀
I’m a big dumb. I’ve been using the Voyager app for a while and knew about the web app but never clicked I could use that on desktop.
For now, because Lemmy is relatively new. There's a reason many bot farms run accounts that are unassuming, "normal" people. Accounts that are established have value. They can then sell those accounts to another group who needs to sew discord. The older Lemmy is, the less useful the new account icon will be.
Is voyager an app like Sync?
Yes, and no ads either.
Yes
I find at least one commenter with a new account on almost every post with more than 5 comments.
They tend to be negative.
Think I'm going to start welcoming them to Lemmy, note their activity to date, and ask them nicely what might have brought them to join. (If they are real, glad to have them, but I have found most Lemmy members came here from Reddit, not to make accounts to post in News or Politics or such places trolls would like.)
Until Lemmy updates to identify new accounts ala Voyager, I think that would be helpful to inform other users they may be talking to a troll.
There are approximately 433k accounts but only 48k Monthly Active Users.
It's hard to believe that many of posts and comments are often the newest accounts, and though they will change tactics to using older accounts, at least it's more work for them.
I recommend others do the same.
Hey look, a new very active account, talking shit about... Hmmm....
Nazis, trump, cops, Russians, gays, etc!
Yeah, people like you are why I point it out new accounts.
And from the way you communicate rudely here, to me for saying "Welcome" to new members, illustrates a great point that you don't seem to be someone worth talking to, likely by anyone.
Have a great day, and looking forward to Welcoming your next alt.
Memba reddit comments circa 2016 election? I memba.
Washington Post gift article - Russian trolls target U.S. support for Ukraine, Kremlin documents show
Oh me too! I ‘memba!
It’s already getting like that over there. That’s why I’m here now. The last straw was a “Reddit Recommendation” that I join r/InternationalNews. I took a look around, and it was a hotbed of anti-Israel and anti-America content. There was the video of the university detonation from January 20th, posted that day and pinned to the top. When I commented on the date and provided the source, I was downvoted to oblivion, and eventually banned.
The sub was #7 under recommended news subreddits.
The government, not the citizens, as per usual.
Beyond that even: not all Israelis share the way of thinking of the Government of Israel.
Plenty of decent people even in a country which has for decades been heavy in nationalism, delusions of inherent racial superiority and generally Zionist indoctrination.
They're probably the minority rather than the majority though.
Bibi is basically a centrist in Israel so I dont think that holds up. eg the humanitarian aid at some border crossings are being picketed by Israeli chuds. Sure there are some good Israelis but they aren't the norm.
The working class of every country has their respective 1%ers that need to be dealt with. Non violently, through electoral reform preferably.
Fuck first past the post voting. Intentionally limiting the number of viable options to pick from is NOT democracy.
Proving op point
You're not going to have much of a better time here if you like Israel and aren't critical of the US. Lemmy is full of socialists lol
You should look a little deeper into the history of modern Israel and Zionism. It's always been a colonial project that necessitates genocide of the local population. I'm not going to get further into it here as it's not really the place for this and people have already done the work. If you haven't seen shaun's video id recommend at least giving it a watch. I'll leave the iron wall as well. It's a short essay from one of the founders of Zionism. His views were quite explicit and highly influential at the time and his legacy is obvious in modern Israel. And lastly The Hundred Years' War on Palestine. It's a good book that plainly lays out the history of the Zionist colonial project from 1917-2017. I'm only halfway through it but it's worth your time. Or just watch the video, it's cites both the essay and book (among other things) and ties it all together very well.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
shaun's
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
If you work for a living like the vast majority of us do, it isn’t the government’s job to represent you, and it never was. The US was born of a bourgeois revolution, and the Founding Fathers formed a bourgeois democracy, which was never meant to represent the working class, and never has. Princeton University Study: US is an oligarchy, not a democracy
Recommended by who though? Spez, that's who. Race-baiting works to increase "engagement" e.g. clicks and comments, thus it continues.
fuck u/spez
anti-Israel and anti-America content is cool actually
So are you racist or a nationalist? There’s a difference between criticizing Netanyahu and Biden, and entire nations of people.
criticising Israel's genocide of palestinians and consistent settlement of palestinian land going back 75 years and the American government unconditionally supporting them to do this for the last few decades regardless of political party isnt racist actually. I'm assuming you don't think that just because I criticise the actions of the Russian government that makes me a white supremacist who hates all russian people.
edit: im getting downvoted for saying genocide is bad and countries that commit genocide are bad lmao
Scratch a liberal and a fascist downvotes.
Welcome to a hotbed of anti-imperial, anti-colonial, and anti-settler content 😂 If you’re looking for pro-imperial core content, you’ve come to the wrong place.
I deleted my 14 year old account after enough BS on Reddit
Going there with no account but not really on private mode so i got recommendations for regional subs
canada_sub keeps getting pushed. That sub is an alt right neo nazi echo chamber in which the founder and head mod admitted to astroturfing himself with multiple accounts to push hateful topics.
Reddit is intentionally pushing misinformation and hatred for metrics to prop up the ipo
I mean, Israel hate is a relatively common position these days.
Of course there are less than intelligent people that think “anti Israel…okay, so fuck the Jews!” Like, no. Fuck those people. And in a social media environment, nuance isn’t allowed. If it sounds like maybe you might be possibly on “the other side” of a popular issue, fuck you there is no room for understanding. It’s a huge problem. I’ve noticed more conversations on lemmy that don’t fall into that trap as easily. But, that does seem to be changing somewhat.
It’s not entirely social media, that’s just people. But I do firmly believe social media has made this problem exponentially worse.
I mean, it seems like you and I would disagree on the Israel/palestine issue. But we’re here discussing the discussion surrounding it. On Reddit, that literally never happened to me.
It doesn’t matter if it’s popular. It’s still racist or nationalist. Just like people who say “fuck Palestinians,” you’re labeling an entire nation or group for the actions of their leader(s).
As an American, am I Biden or Trump? No. I’m an American. I should not be held accountable for the actions of the leader of my nation, even more so if I voted against them.
Netanyahu won his last election with 64% of the popular vote, and is currently polling at 15% popularity with the Israelis.
Hamas won the last election with 44.45% of the popular vote (similar to Trump, they won without popular majority).
I’m just saying words matter. “Fuck Israel” means all Israelis. I think you may just mean “fuck Benjamin Netanyahu.” In that, you’d likely have support of most of the world.
Eh. It’s actually different. The popular position is that Israel the state is committing genocide. That’s not he same thing as saying “fuck Palestinians.” Because people aren’t saying “fuck Israelis.” They’re saying fuck Israel for what they’re doing.
You seem to be implying the nimrods who, as I explained earlier, lack the concept of nuance and take anti-israel positions to the illogical extreme of just becoming antisemitic. It’s the same type of people who were assaulting anyone of Asian descent during Covid. You can’t lump everyone who was being careful not to get sick in with the people who were pushing old Asian women down the subway stairs.
What. No. It absolutely does not. That’s you being overly sensitive and basically misunderstanding a message. If I say “fuck the US” in the context of the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, that doesn’t mean “fuck everyone from the US.” Thats such an illogical conclusion to come to.
Also, I don’t know where you got your numbers, I can only find these figures about Netanyahu’s approval ratings in Israel:
And this:
https://en.idi.org.il/articles/53305
This one survey is the source for those numbers, and it doesn’t paint as clear of a picture of not supporting Netanyahu. Now, this doesn’t mean anything about antisemitism. That’s always wrong. But my point is that, first off, you seem to be skewing numbers to make a point, unless you have data I can’t find. Secondly, you also seem to be falling in with that group of people who can’t grasp or don’t operate with any nuance. I can say fuck people who support the genocide, whether they are in Israel or elsewhere in the world. Because…it’s fucking genocide. That doesn’t mean I get to generalize about them and hate hem for unrelated qualities, like their religion or skin color. But I can hate their beliefs about what’s happening. It’s all about nuance. It’s very fucking important.
But that doesn’t change anything. If anything, wouldn’t that make it different than saying “fuck Palestine?” Because you’re basically saying fuck the idea of a Palestinian state. But if you say “fuck Israel,” you’re very clearly designating the state itself as the problem.
Also, I wasn’t conflating those figures. I was citing a more recent poll that gave more context, as well as updated job favorability numbers. The poll you’re citing isn’t measuring favorability, but percentage of Israelis that want Netanyahu to “stay in office after the war in Gaza ends.”
But that’s my entire point. There isn’t prejudice in saying “fuck Israel.” You’re projecting that onto the message. Your entire thing started with complaining that people are “anti-Israel” in a community. So I’m really just not even sure your point anymore.
It’s never too late to learn the difference between a people and a state.
I think r/InternationalNews was mainly created as a place to discuss issues free from the rampant Zionism of r/WorldNews.
Happy to have people on Lemmy but I have to say, Lemmy as a whole seems way more anti-Israel than reddit right now. Although to be fair outside of r/WorldNews and a few other places, the general mood does seem to be shifting away from Israel pretty hard.
For me this is nice to see, because fuck Israel right to hell, but you'll certainly see the same type of content here. I like that if people don't like it they can make their own community or even an instance, and also that people are generally more free to disagree here (partially due to lax moderation I guess). You should have never been banned for that comment by the sound of it, absolutely stupid.
I don’t know if 50k people, at least a third of whom are outside of the US is a big enough target or if I’m being naïve in thinking that
I was thinking the same thing. It’s definitely not a coordinated propaganda thing. Some people are just assholes. And they like to troll.
But who knows, maybe someone, somewhere, knows about lemmy—some government/interest group—and think it’s worth it because it can be accessed through mastodon, blue sky, etc. The fediverse seems to be a relatively popular subject these days. So, I dunno. Maybe.
But I think some people just suck and think trolling is a good pastime.
My old comments would have had me banned a hundred times over today.
Jesus what kind of shit did you used to say lol
I was fresh off the bus from 4chan and is was the same culture in the early days.
No one is paying troll farms to go comment on lemmy though
im not on lemmy but I see regular buy drugs here, how to change your flight booking (no idea how that scam whatever it is works), or for some reason random keyboard characters like a person randomly banged on the homerow keys. may not be paid but apparently someone thinks the fediverse is worth crapping up.
Fair enough, I have also seen that crap
Wait, you guys are getting paid?
Could you tell that to the c/politics commenters who seem to think russian shills lurk behind every rock?
I don’t really think political spending is going towards Lemmy trolls, much less like…national propaganda spending. Shitty advertising bots maybe.
Nor do I. I don't think lemmy is large enough for such spending to have enough return on investment to make it worthwhile. But it's convenient to dismiss deviations from centrist orthodoxy as the output of shills, and so it happens.
There are 2 million monthly active Lemmy users. That's a vast untapped market of grassroots users many who likely aren't on many other platforms, due to the nature of Lemmy.
The first state actor to get in on the ground floor and shape the collective opinion of lemmings as a whole will influence the future outlook of every user of the fediverse. Especially young people. Majority opinion, majority rule.
I believe we can see this taking place on instances like .world and hexbear, but I'm sure it's happening in a semi-automated fashion across most instances.
That’s total monthly users, not active. MAU is about 30-40k
Thanks for the clarification. Even easier to sink a claw in then. Trajectories don't show growth slowing down, they show it accelerating.
Atlantic Council: Collective Security In a Federated World
We do it for love
So the record is correct here?
100%. I've been saying it over and over. It's election season on the internet, division aplenty.
Current Contenders:
....Fight!!!
Round 2 ...
hmmm
Stay blissful my friend.
But yes, American social media platforms are targeted during American elections, so you aren't ignorant about one thing.
A first round contender, I see
Every time I hear that 2024 is a big election year for the world I don't really understand the stats.
Like if everyone has 4 year terms then generally a quarter of the world's population will have an election every year.
Not every country has four year terms. Also, elections can be triggered early for various reasons.
Not every country has elections either.
What other terms are popular? 3 years ?
Mainly 5 year terms, but I can see on the list some 6 and 7 year terms as well.. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_term_limits
Is it? Or is it just election season in a couple of specific countries, and not elsewhere....
Just sayin :P
Use the report button when you see those, it's the quickest way for them to be noticed by mods and admins.
People don't report shit, then complain stuff goes unmoderated.
Like, you don't have to report every single comment a troll makes, but at least report one so a mod looks at it.
Edit:
Here's a good example. An account I have blocked replied to me. If they go into a sub I moderate and start acting like a jackass, I'll never know because I have them blocked.
The only way I'd see it, is if someone reported it.
This is why, when I was a reddit moderator (r/Firefox), I never blocked users even if they were absolute trash to me. I always thought of that as a severe limitation of the platform, there should be a setting to show blocked user's content (labelled as such) in communities you moderate.
This is part of why I think individuals blocking accounts is a bad idea. Sure, it stops them from harassing you directly, but it doesn't stop them from continuing to harm you by (for example) writing libelous comments for everyone else to see, that you then don't rebut because you don't know about them.
Funnily enough…
https://kbin.social/m/[email protected]/t/863168/-/comment/5396638
Sounds like that user is known for trolling.
I don't care about that.
They can yell into the void till their throat is sore.
It's just because I don't want to engage with them, I also don't see comments they make in a sub I mod either.
Unless someone reports it
People do report stuff, get yelled at by the mods, and then get banned by the admins for abuse of the reporting system, or mod abuse for getting clarification.
So if you do what you are supposed to, you get banned.
Would be better if moderation was actually taken seriously and the admins don’t excuse terrible mod behavior.
Those sound like extremely edge cases and are not a good reason to not justify not reporting anything.
Moderators are volunteers and most of them simply want to make their communities better, so they do take these reports seriously. Plus at this stage Lemmy lacks robust tools to help them accomplish this. The very least general users can do is flag problem comments and accounts to help them out.
There’s posts about mods complaining about users using the report button as a “super downvote” you go to those posts, there are people legit trolling in them and the content is still there.
The excuse is, Lemmy needs content, so they are very loose and liberal in applying moderation like that against users that add content.
I’ve had an admin defend a mod when I reported them with “they aren’t as bad as some of the others”. So Lemmy admins know they have moderation issues, if they fix it, they lose their content and their free labor. So they just turn a blind eye and let the mods do what they want, which is quite frankly nothing. And when asked they report you to the admins. They really only deal with illegal stuff unfortunately, since they have to or they can get in shit personally.
Trolls unfortunately add content, which is desperately needed. Some communities deal with it, larger let it go for discussion and metrics sake. Lemmy isn’t perfect, and we should be able to discuss its darker side.
Are you talking about Lemmy.ml specifically or Lemmy in general?
Ugghh that’s a good point, this was .world for admins, but the moderation issues seem to be non instance specific.
Also makes me wonder if some of the trolling is dealt with and its federation issues then…
Still, the amount of trolling comments, and users being banned for pretty frivolous things isn’t a good look.
There's also a fine line between legitimate trolling and having unpopular or dissenting opinion. I've seen plenty of threads where 2 or more people are arguing about a given topic, and while the unpopular opinion isn't being inflammatory or breaking any rules, they still get their comments removed after being down voted into the ground. It's happened to me as well.
My only contention with this is finding a way to foster conversation without censoring opinions just because they're not widely shared. As long as the argument is in good faith, mods shouldn't be removing content they don't agree with, only those that are inflammatory, overly insulting, blatant trolling/shilling, or breaking community rules.
I think it depends. You can be a really polite Baptist preacher being very earnest in !196 about how you think people should behave, and that’s just not what they want. Even in a discussion thread, writing a nonspecific defense of FGM, for example, is going to be offensive enough to probably disrupt the conversation, and I can see removing it.
I’m not suggesting that’s what’s happening; just saying that I like your idea, with some tweaks
Trolling is simply noise and garbage to dispose of when it becomes an attack on the person. It brings nothing of value and it diminishes the value of everything else it pollutes.
Trolling doesn’t ONLY require personal attacks…. That’s the issue, mods only step in when things progress too far and have reached that point….
What mods/admins are doing this? I would not stick around a community or instance run like this. Luckily with the Fediverse, you can choose what instances or communities you want to go to, you're not stuck in the same way you were on Reddit. Use that power - don't let abusive mods/admins be your host.
Moderating comments, even trolling is suppressing free speech. So it goes against the entire purpose of fediverse, it’s an issue with its own system. So people say to report them, but they won’t act on reports since just having an opinion that goes against the narrative can fall under free speech. And moderation it will create other issues.
Go elsewhere, smaller communities, less content, more moderation so less content, it’s all potential issues all the way down that are created by itself.
The purpose of the Fediverse is not free speech or censorship-resistance. It's more like to have a choice in your social media landscape and to make it more democratic, via users choosing what server to use. If you want a server that doesn't supress free speech, join one like that or make it yourself. If you want a more strictly moderated server, go to one like that or make it yourself.
And yea your choice may not be as popular so maybe there'll be less content, but you'll be in the area you chose and maybe others will follow you over time.
Unpopular opinion but I rather downvote. I want to see people’s bad opinions instead of pretending they don’t exist.
The whole of Lemmy is, in general, severely under-moderated.
Part of it is personnel (being a moderator is a crappy job and we don’t have the people to do it) but it’s also ideological. A lot of people here believe that allowing disruptive speech is better than suppressing expression.
That’s a choice and we live with the consequences.
Yup! I had a comment removed from lemmy.ml because I said something nice about the USA. I had another comment removed because I said something not nice about CCP.
I had a comment there removed for claimed "disinformation". It explained that Russia has been in violation or broke multiple nuclear arms agreements. That the US did not renew the agreements because Russia already left them.
The whole topic was a circle jerk about America being the bad guy and dangerous for not renewing the agreements. Agreements Russia had already left and did not want to negotiate on. Pointing out the truth that Russia caused the agreements to collapse wasn't allowed.
Lemmy seems to have a lot of hard core communists as mods.
Could be part of the Chinese/Russian disinformation campaign, or just might be an idiot.
What did you say?
According to moderators, even using the word "CCP" makes you a racist orientalist Nazi.
If that sounds like the neolib tactic of calling all criticism of Israel (or even the Netanyahu regime) "antisemitic" that's because it is.
That's not what they said, though, and that's not what you said either. I understand wanting to make your case, but you understated what got removed and overstated the reaction, which was just a removed comment and a 1 day ban for Orientalism.
You didn't critique the CPC either, unless you think calling for death is critique.
If you stalked my comment history, then you're being extremely selective and disingenuous, or very lazy.
"Death to Amerikkka" is not a critique either. But it is allowed by moderators. Do you condemn that equally?
A political party is not a race.
Death to the CCP.
To quote @[email protected] : Reporter, please learn the difference between a people and a state.
Nah, I just checked the modlog against your name, I didn't stalk it.
I didn't say "Death to Amerikkka" is a critique, you said critiquing the CCP gets you removed, but you didn't critique the CPC as evidenced by the modlog. I think it was more cringe than anything.
You think moderators remove those comments? (/s)
Protip: by replying to a comment on many apps, you can see the content of the comment. This can be very useful.
You can also check the modlogs. They can be really revealing.
Which one? There’s one on every instance.
The best one of course
I noticed somebody who wrote "death to amerikkka" was given official mod sanction (saying that it was a country not a people group) so I made the same comment about the CCP.
Comment removed. Banned.
Confirmed.
gatt dayum dogg shut the fuck up. amerikkka is the global hegimon who bombed tens o million and razed half the globe. china is already sanctioned to shit but still gives out $$$ to poor ass countries. bruv you on a crusade for western interests lmao "anarchost". i guess the US state department is anarchy now innit? LMFAOOOO
I mean, let's be clear: The choice lies with the users. If users want to allow disruptive speech (or what's worse), they can go to the instances/communities that allow that kind of speech. If not, they can go to other instances/communities that have stricter moderation.
You don't have to personally live with it - go somewhere else if you don't like where you are right now.
This place is like a black mirror episode. "It's okay, just block the Nazis and it's like they're not there terrorizing and indoctrinating others, bc I can't see it"
I don't mean each user needs to block people, I mean go to instances and communities that are well-moderated.
Sure but the outcome is the same. Just someone else clicking for you and your group at scale.
That matters a lot though. If users feel unwelcome and have to block lots of other people before they'll get a nice experience, they'll just leave. If instead, they are greeted with kindness and interesting stuff, then they'll stick around. It's not scalable to have every user block lots of users before they have a good experience.
No disagreement, that's true, it will help increase growth by reducing friction for new users. Also, that doesn't mitigate my thesis statement that we're wearing blinders while the evil infects and hurts others.
Yeah. Maybe if mods weren't constantly removing factual information as "disinformation", you'd have a point.
But again, you choose your mods. If you think your mods are being unreasonable, use other communities with better mods - or start your own community and become the better mod yourself.
It's a "this type of website" problem, not limited to one page or instance.
Hmm. Maybe? I'd like to think it's possible to do a website of this type without those problems. But I could be wrong I guess.
I have been spending relatively more time on Bluesky now you mention it. They way they do block propagation is just 😘👌
What is block propagation?
I’m not super sharp about the details, but if you block someone, by default other people don’t see their replies on your stuff. There may be more features but I’m not sure.
Anyway, it remains functional even when overrun with shitheads because not everyone needs to block everyone.
I see.
I feel like defederation is the tool for this on the Fediverse. But just to be clear, when I said "go somewhere else if you don’t like where you are right now" I didn't mean go away from the Fediverse, I just meant another community or instance basically.
I would argue that defederation is a completely fucking brain dead way to deal with bad faith users.
And the “fediverse” has no answers here.
How come? I mean if there is a concentration of bad faith users on an instance or maybe the instance attracts such types because it has no rules or directly encourages such behaviour, is it not good that other instances can choose not to interact with that instance?
Yep! Imo it’s the only way to beat trolls. If you suppress it, your still giving it attention and publicity. Your also playing into their game that they will claim you sensor truth.
Imo if you tell someone: “yeah, come to lemmy, voice your opinion. We won’t ban you but if we mostly disagree and ignore, clearly your idea was not with its salt”.
Shoutout to Voyager, for automatically marking new accounts with a baby emoji. It’s a feature ripped straight from Apollo, and it should honestly be the standard.
This app has a lot of great features, it actually convinced me to sign up.
Wefwef also has it.
Ya, Lemmy is speed running the worst things about Reddit but struggling to build the niche communities that would make people want to hang around.
The thing that's making me kinda want to leave is it feels like even more of an echo chamber then Reddit was, especially when you see someone calling for the death of someone at least once a week or so
Quite often see people getting downvote bombed and dogpiled for having different political opinions
I left reddit because I fucking hate the company.
But I'm not happy here because I fucking hate the users.
Great summary.
It's infectuous
Yes but not that much I see the communities are starting to materialize but many that are a 1 to 1 copy didn't took off sadly the Warframe one is a good example, but you see the pixel dungeon one is going great even Evan00 (the dev of shattered) is buzzing in and the helldivers2 is starting to get to the frontpages. I guess the fediverse moves in a more organical way? Regarding the trolls is normal is a "ladran Sancho" situation, we are getting more people in and that includes idiots. Sadlly/Luckly idiots comes in the full spectrum of races backgrounds and preferences.
I have seen this as well. Thankfully Voyager flags accounts under a certain age, so there’s an immediate visual indicator that an inflammatory comment may be just a troll.
That's a neat feature. I will request that gets added to sync.
Is this on per default? How to activate it?
Thanks
AFAIK it’s on by default. I’m using the most recent iOS version, if you’re not seeing it I’d ask in the voyager community.
Just installed due to this thread.
On by default. Nice feature
Huh, interesting. Voyager's one of the Lemmy apps? Is it for iOS too?
Lemmy.world actually host a voyager instance at https://m.lemmy.world/
Yeah, it’s an iOS app.
I see. The symbol is an yellow baby
The ones that stand out to me are the ones that take offense at mundane things, because they're looking at it through a skewed mental filter. As far as I can tell, they're genuine. I don't know what to make of it, so I just make liberal use of the block button.
That's some fucking ableist bullshit, not everyone is neurotypical you know. Fucking bigot.
You are really proving his point, eh? Or are you being silly and trolling him? I seriously cannot tell.
Could be genuine. People with a skewed mental filter don't like to be reminded by someone with an upright one
Not trolling per se, more like an experiment.
I agree with OP that I'm sick of brain dead people picking some random bullshit to engage in. But clearly lemmy as a community has lost the ability to "don't feed the troll". Or in other words, lemmings get just as angry against the random bullshit as the random bullshitter is angry for his random bullshit.
The correct response to my post should have been "that's probably satire". Instead lemmy went 😡😡😡
Isn't that what both replies basically say?
Both replies, but not the downvotes
But at the end of the day, how do you truly know, either way?
Especially when people don't label it as such with a /s.
Understanding context is a skill that has atrophied in younger generations. Reading comprehension is not really being taught in school anymore.
forgot the /s
I didn't forget, I left it off to see what would happen. Went about as I expected.
This.
Also worth pointing out that the best way of reading this thread is looking at all of the removed comments in the modlog. Lol.
Now I’m really curious. How do you read those comments?
There's a link at the bottom of each and every Lemmy page.
You can search by community/post/user.
On Kbin and Lemmy instances, the link is called "Modlog" at the bottom of the page in browser. I don't use any Fedi apps so I don't know what it looks like there.
You can see all of the deleted comments every day. I recommend everyone to look at the Modlog at least occasionally. You get a real pulse on how each community is moderated and you can make a better informed decision on where you actually want to hang out.
Is this something publicly accessible or do you need to be a mod or host an instance?
You can put /modlog after the instance URL, e.g. https://lemmy.world/modlog
This is so fucking good. I was so sick of shadowbans and not knowing what went down on reddit.
Only banned once because i supported ukraine to much, doing pretty good.
Guess that was probably on an lemmy.ml community?
My only complaint with the modlog is that it doesn't say which moderator performed the action. It just says "mod", so there's no way for a community to make sure particular mods aren't just going rogue.
The Modlog is (or should be, in theory) accessible on any Lemmy/Kbin instance. However, it is on an instance by instance basis whether the Modlog shows full information for each moderator action. Like you said, some instances will only show "mod" but others will provide the names.
To be honest, I haven't been looking at the Fediverse a whole lot lately, so I can't recommend which ones are the best and most transparent. At one point in time, the Lemmy.world Modlog did provide full info but it seems that they have changed that in recent months.
Also, certain instances have definitely started to selectively federate mod logs for whatever reason. .ml being the worst offender. It's a good idea in theory, but it's already being abused.
Just go to the instance website and there will be a link to the modlog usually at the bottom of the page.
https://lemmy.world/comment/9277737
Two downvotes for just supplying a link to a comment that answers the question, so that copy/paste is not done?
I guess we're not supposed to be helpful anymore. /shrug
I absolutely love the mod log. Some days I just read through that instead of the regular Lemmy posts.
It's not just an entertaining read, it's a valuable resource to look at to determine if mods in certain communities are over-moderating. Imo for months, mods in many of the largest communities are far overstepping their roles and not just "moderating" their communities but actively censoring opinions they don't like.
Agree. Honestly that's where I find the entertainment from, actually looking at how the mods actually do their moderating, the kind of reasons why they give.
It's interesting to compare the moderation that happens between the different communities too.
Some people don’t get this:
If your communities are filled with polarized nonsense, your people suck, not your tech.
Right now, people’s suckyness worldwide is at an all time high.
It rocks! And if it gets shitty where you're at, just go to a new instance and you can stay!
Is this the last migration?
We’re about 6 months away from the US presidential election so it doesn’t surprise me.
Yes, Im also glad im not the only one who noticed this. But it also seems to be they disapper after a few days too, maybe instance mods banned them or they just got bored.
Assholes are everywhere, but yeah, it's been happening slowly but surely ever since lemmy has gained more users (which makes sense).
I'd really like to know the ratio of assholes to regular people out of every 100 people 😂
An ever increasing ratio because assholes drive out non assholes.
Dead Sea effect in action.
Good theory; makes sense
Unless you have mods that aren't afraid to drive out the assholes
Some threads have a handful of interactions that seem less than genuine, yes. Usually political and derailing and spoil the thread.
I noticed votes related to political comments are suddenly shifting to the right which was different just 1 week ago.
Never feed the trolls, the only winning move is to downvote and move on
Nothing is as maddening as writing an elaborate troll post only to be completely ignored.
I do all my riling people up on Reddit though because that site is collapsing anyway and a shell of former self. Hard to bring yourself to respect it and not throw some spicy fake made up posts into the wild and see what happens
I fit your definition. Now lemme 'splain:
For thirty-five years I have heard nothing but radical right fascism spewing hate, lies, vitriol, slander, and violent rhetoric- over the airwaves, cable, and now social media- and without the slightest bit of challenge or pushback. The amount and volume increased when they figured out it pays big money. The people who listen have never known that it was for entertainment; they are being edged to violence just like Ruwandan radio did.
Liberals have been major pussies and doormats about this because they have no idea who they're dealing with. They cannot be reasoned with or appealed to through humanity. The radical fascists' free speech rights do not exist and are not to be defended; there is absolutely nothing to gain there and everything to lose. As I said, liberals have no idea who they're dealing with.
For all the unchecked violence and damaged caused by the radical fascist shitbags to our daily lives, our long term properity, and to safety and security in general, I absolutely attack them with all the violent and vitriolic slander I can muster to pay back for thirty-five plus years of the same. This is the route every one of you should take, because they all think you're a bunch of pussies and they take great joy in running you over. They must be made to fear even being seen in public, and beaten down like rabid dogs when they are. They are enemies of freedom, enemies of humanity, and enemies of all that is good in the world.
Yeap... Lemmy is getting to Reddit form faster than expected
How long til Lemmy hivemind?
Couple more rounds of enshitification I presume. The IPO got me to move. I guess it wasn't fun posting on reddit anymore now that I'm making spez money
Honestly? Probably a couple months or so.
It already exists it just depends on your instance.
Plenty of group think moving through posts and competing with other group think.
Redit is SIGNIFICATLY more censored than lemmy
On Reddit you will be banned if you say something the mods don't like and they take personally. And it can get you banned off the sire permanently too.
Often commenting on one thread will ban you from other subreddits entirely by bot. Plus all the same garbage of not being able to say words that are considered naughty or no-no words from people who think it makes them superior are all over reddit.
I once got banned from a "leftist" subreddit cause I pointed out that a post was right wing disinformation and the mod responded that they agreed with it so it couldn't be propaganda and then spent like an hour yelling at me in my messages about how it was a starter leftist sub and that I didn't belong if I wasn't going to agree.
But honestly the world is full of the dumbest little shits and everyone everywhere has a quirk and Lemmy is full of people full of themselves and thinking their shit don't stink. That and moderately well off liberals that can't handle being told they are wrong because they "are well educated and know how things work".
I do think it's insane how quick people are to block and how even more empty it makes the fediverse, interesting that you are dealing with people that also have the ability to delete your replies though as that's not really a thing on Lemmy so maybe a mastodon thing?
乁( •_• )ㄏ
Honestly prior to the api protest I had somewhat good communications with mods, and by just following the only rule, which is behave, I got around some rule and had enough clarifications about them. The new mods that replaced them are a mess. Even the power mods of the past like that turtle person pale in comparison to what I've seen. They don't even know modding tools such as warnings, temporary bans. It's like touching a md account for the first time got them power hungry like never before.
Don't forget about shadowbans that attempt to make it seem like you aren't banned when your entire account is hidden without your knowledge.
Oh God right! The weirdest darkest form of mild censorship.
I can decide if it's clever or very fucked up.
I think it's just very messed up, ultimately it doesn't work against the real nasty people Reddit claims to be going up against because those people have bot armies that monitor their astroturf accounts so they know when the shadowbans happen and dump the account to move on to the next ones. No this system disproportionately affects the people who aren't expecting it and probably don't even deserve it.
Also for braindead spammers it's actually a terrible strategy because spammers' purpose is both to annoy users and chew through your resources, even if they are shadowbanned and uploading multiple gigabytes of white noise they aren't annoying people but they are chewing through bandwidth and CDN storage. IMO that's not feasible long term, and wouldn't even be initially feasible for most Fediverse services, hence why most basically just don't do it.
In my experience, Lemmy is not as censored as Reddit
You can disagree here, as long as you keep it civil, all is good
Not a metric but ok
Again, not what you say but how you say it
Sounds like you are proud of them ...
I think that one is better off not discussing these topics online at all.
I have never seen anything good come out of it, anywhere. Ever
Lmao, thank you mods for proving my point that .ml is heavily censored.
The rule against mild criticism of the admins? It can't be censorship if there are rules, right?
i have only ever had one post of mine be deleted, and that was a post talking about suicide. I don't exactly agree with the deletion, but hey i don't make the rules, it's their community.
As soon as anyone starts arguing in bad faith I just block them. I don't really care what they have to say about me for my argument.
The only problem with blocking is they still see your comments you make, and can respond to them negatively, and you have no way of defending yourself because you haven't seen their comment.
My wish would be for blocking to prevent those who are blocked from reading comments from the blocker.
I would love better blocking. But I understand the costs of doing that in a truly federated environment. I'll just settle for not caring what they actually say about me. The whole point of the trolling is to get a rise out of someone.
Stopping viewing on a per-account basis doesn't make sense to me, since people don't need accounts to view any content in Lemmy, therefore it's trivial to bypass by logging out or fetching the discussion information without logging in from a custom frontend. What would be better is simply stopping them from interracting, just like what happens with bans, they can still view but all interractions are simply dropped or disallowed.
I wish you could set a personal minimum "karma" and age requirement. Like I don't want to hear from anyone with an account made in the last week. And no one with karma below zero.
It's not really a high bar, it mainly blocks people who get banned all the time.
How do you even see karma?
I dunno. It was there before. Maybe just total their last 5 comment scores. So it's easy to just not be a dick all the time and get through the filter.
But how would one acquire karma if no one sees their comments?
Also automatically shadow banning new users will mean cool people that come to the site will get the impression that it sucks and leave and never come back.
You could just block users with a total < 0 points for those comments.
Yeah, it's extremely easy to not be blocked.
Oh the cool people are long gone /s
Karma is easily falsified on the lemmyverse though. I have a maintenance user and a normal user on my server, I can use them both to vote, and thats just easy and not even intentional.
Yes. Especially in subs like “Canada” or any post involving Canada in any way
It does not matter what the topic of the thread or conversation is. It can be about how Canada loves puppies. And there will be random 1 or 2 liners from new accounts making political comments heavily pushing specific agendas. Even completely unrelated
Lots of random anti government misinformation and one liners pushing a specific party misinformation and narrative. Our how we’re some 3rd world collapsing country
It is not natural. Same thing occurs also on Reddit.
I think I'm seeing something different, although also synthetic in nature.
It seems like companies or brands are in here (and probably on any social media) actively controlling the message about their brand. People make a post or comment about a specific thing (or person) and you get pre-packages responses, similar in nature and argument.
It makes you feel like it's tin foil hat time, but I've seen different accounts proporting the same exact experiences about a product, which are super specific in nature.
I could see that being a part of a company trying to actively "control the message," but it makes you question the authenticity of a lot of posts or arguments. Is that person really standing up for this thing with a questionable history, or are they a paid shill?
What would be a safe space from this though? A forum small enough to stay under the radar? I enjoy larger platforms like this because of the diversity in content and viewpoints, but not if it's a haven for corporate messaging or agencies controlling a narrative.
Am I joining the tin foil hat club here, or has anyone else seen similar?
Many of the purported leftists on here are ignorant and full of shit at best, fake accounts by foreign actors at worst. Finding small niche communities to infiltrate and disinform is a playbook. Scaling your social media budget on them isn't. If you have a genuine interest in understanding me and/or defeating the alt-right: https://youtu.be/P55t6eryY3g?si=vACmE3A9m-Dsiqx9
I hope you're right
It's math. I'm a corporate shill. I wouldn't waste my time.
No, not really.
There's a group of conflict bots that show up every day, around the same time.
Then throw in a mix of astroturfers from certain countries trying to steer conversations away from one direction and into another direction.
Finally mix in comments from one of the extreme edges of the political spectrum, that repost the same kind of posts that support their extreme views almost daily.
Lemmy admins have some work to do.
It's almost the European Parliament and US presidential elections. Just today our national crisis centre heightened the threat level after a presumed Russian threat mail was send to Wallonian schools yesterday.
I guess I'm lucky. I must subscribe to more or less of an echo chamber. Fuck trolls.
Part of the attraction of this place is that it is like things used to be for the most part. Freedom of expression has always been a double edged sword that all of us have to be responsible for. When you start asking others to police an environment, youre giving up that freedom not just for those you find distasteful but for yourself as well. If you simply excercise due diligence in your consumption, you can easily learn what is comfortably digestible and what will give you a heart attack
You shouldn't have to do a fucking DOD level background check on someone typing shit on the internet...
Prolly lots of bots...
I just blocked a user, because I just kept seeing their name pop up and commenting on 'everything'
Account created 9 months ago with 15000+ Comments That's like 60 comments a day.
Bot or not, someone with that many comments a day needs to go outside and experience life before posting their opinion on fucking everything.
Was it Flying Squid? I see them comment multiple times in nearly every thread I'm in.
EDIT: 30,000 comments in 10 months. Jesus.
Flying squid was the guy with health issues that went to Mayo to try to get help. Spent like two weeks just waiting for appointments. On his last day there he got some good news on a diagnosis. When he came to share it people had shit all over him. We never got to find out what happened.
Died . rip good guy too from the jist of it
::: spoiler Title /s :::
Or Viking Hippie, or some of the other names we've seen everywhere. Reminds me of maxwellhill on reddit. I don't know how someone can read that post and then come to any other conclusion than Ghislane Maxwell was maxwellhill, but when you search maxwellhill, the articles are all refuting it while not touching on many or any of the commonalities in that thread.
Guess we'll know when we start seeing the same few names pop up as mods for top communities.
Nah they're just an active user with good memes
That dude is a mod now. He roams around news communities endlessly antagonizing any user who doesn't toe his anti-Israel stance. That's why he has a ridiculously high comment count.
I might be able to do 60 in a day but not consistantly over 9 months.
Hey man, some people just shit post at work all day... and have a crippling addiction.
I feel attacked!
(j/k, keep up the good work)
What’s even funnier (sadder let’s be honest), is some of them are memed like they are some god in some of these communities they spam relentlessly.
i think that it's a lot more likely that a few people are just making burner accounts to be dicks on the internet than some weird QAnon-esque conspiracy theory that both the Russian and Chinese governments are not only aware of a tiny reddit clone but also are actively employing people (who all happen to be fluent in english) to create fake accounts and convincingly imitate westerners all in order to slightly increase political divisions in america for a few thousand people by having arguments about already incredibly contentious issues.
Thank you! Like, this isn't how foriegn influence campaigns work. Believing the jerk you're arguing with is a Russian agent might make you feel like you're in a Tom Clancy novel, but the odds are it's just a dweeb with multiple accounts. Foriegn influence campaigns make sock-puppets to repeat the same 5 talking points on as many communities as possible, and maybe have a few canned replies. They don't fight with the same person in a 20 reply thread over the course of 2 days.
It's not a "QAnon-esque conspiracy theory". Russia's online influence in American politics has been fairly well documented. That being said, I think it's somewhat unhealthy to assume everyone who says something controversial is dishonest or a troll. Not good for discourse.
im not saying governments dont astroturf or anything, i meant it was a QAnon-esque conspiracy to assume that there were paid shills and bots around every corner and the vast majority of anti-american sentiment comes from a Russian cabal or something, especially on a comparitively tiny online space like lemmy. Like i've fairly frequently seen the accusation that lemmy is filled with paid actors / bots working for various countries from people just because they've suddenly been exposed to views that they've never really encountered before.
"The Russian and Chinese oligarchs are taking over!" - Western oligarchs probably
All they want is attention. I simply don’t give them the satisfaction of a response. They get bored and move on.
Do they just want attention? Or are they malicious actors from those that consider Lemmy competition?
They're malicious actors, but reddit is just as bad right now. It'll die down to more organic hate after the elections.
Even if they’re malicious actors, they want attention just the same. They want to lure you into a bad faith “debate” so they can spread their propaganda. Either way, the solution is the same - ignore them. Don’t give them the opportunity to reply and promote more bullshit.
Yes, and not just in comments, but occasionally when you sort by new, the same one loser (they use either the same pfp or a name with a sequential year or something, I can't find them in my blocked list, those accounts must have been purged) will post extremely racist or transphobic shit, almost like they want to get banned on sight to reinforce their delusions of persecution). There have also been targeted attacks on the autism communities with someone just posting the r slur over and over again. Report and block is the only thing to do really.
Either way, this is typical of any even moderately progressive space, but the more radical you go, the more bigots and trolls will come to smear their shit all over the space, it's an inevitable result of the overinflated sense of entitlement that comes with privilege.
Tell me about it.
They are probably created by Reddit to make everyone lose interest in Lemmy /s
We can expect this with any system that grows in size, becomes popular right? I don’t know the science behind it, but communities over a certain size naturally create subcommunities or attract partisans, antagonists, anarchists with a tendency to troll for fun. It’s the way of things.
That's why huge instances are bad, they can't moderate all those users (I am on a bigger instance myself tho don't judge me).
I believe THIS is exactly what is being talked about when they say "Russian troll farm"
Some apps let you highlight new accounts. I use voyager and it will put an icon next to their username (when that feature is turned on) so you don’t have to open their profile to see they’re new. Obviously there’s new people that are legit too, but it’s a nice thing to know.
Shit, you’re right. It’s even called „New Account Highlightenator“. That’s so cool.
Why yes, we even had a balrog...
Communities need an auto mod to limit age of accounts.
That’s big talk from a 5 day old account! 😜
Checks notes: I don't know what you mean, I'm 2024 years old
I have not seen this. Can you link to some examples?
No, Sounds like someone who can't give a counter arguments, and instead reverts to crying about trolls, bots, and calling for the opposite side to be censored.
Yes. I hardly look at Lemmy any more. It’s so toxic
But you made a post less <2 days ago, and commented over 50 times just this past week
So, did you just VERY recently start "hardly looking" or something? Or are you just trolling/full of
shitbologna?. No hard feelings or anything, but damn; low effort. Be betterI sympathize for you. I suggest for you to block users you find toxic.
Thank you. The one sympathetic voice in a sea of frothing idiocy
Nothing wrong with someone disagreeing with you at all. Plenty of dictators throughout history hard-lining group think.
Report troll accounts, for actual people you dont have torespond to every post so just ignore or at minimum be respectful, you can even attempt critical thought: you might just be wrong.
Your comment downvoted just shows that Lemmy isn't any better than its alternatives.
Just shows how hateful some people are.
yes and its awesome.
lemmy needs more troll accounts and we should all be trolled more
Thank you very much, @[email protected] for bringing the troll's perspective to the site!
🫡
But I’m not even trolling. It’s good that people get trolled. It’s good that people don’t take the internet very seriously.