Don't forget the ':' before the q!, when you type ':' you enter command mode, the q command quits the file and putting an exclamation mark after the q doesn't save the file and forces the file to be closed
In the end linux is about choice, if you don't want to remember the commands to edit with vim, there are text editors like nano or some kind of notepad program from your DE
It’s an old audio card. The output and input work, but it retains the volume level and mix settings as last adjusted in Windows. I’ll replace it eventually with a DAC and amp, which is what we put together for my wife’s build last year.
It’s the nuAudio card (non-pro version) from EVGA. There are a few work around a, one of which is backflashing old firmware to get some level of control in Linux, but I don’t like the tradeoff and a couple of my Elite: Dangerous tools don’t work well on Linux anyway, so I need the Windows install for that.
I also keep a windows boot around just for updating my tomtom wirh map updates. Tried under Linux but the mydrive software just will not work. If anyone knows how to update a tomtom rider 400 under Linux, let me know.
If your corporate environment didn't use GPO to just disable the suggestions (just like what you can do on the home edition to get rid of any and all ads), then I suggest they get someone actually knowledgeable in IT to manage their servers.
As one of them, no thank you. Windows is doing plenty of other crap and I don’t like and it turns out linux is kinda fun. Also once I finally understand what I’m doing I can set up a home server and other cool stuff.
Also I’m not european so I can’t actually switch back
Yeah I’m just a shit programmer. I just have a few old workstations, a desire to eventually set up a jellyfin setup, and little enough knowledge that the beginner guides are often above my level
honestly, i barely know how to write shit for an arduino. i have no prior experience with software. linux stuff is learning by doing. try something and see if that works. the text tutorials in the documentations are often the best way to install stuff. you'll eventually figure it out.
Tried Debian stable, kept not being able to get stuff to work because of the packages always being too old. Not advocating for Ubuntu either, but Debian? For a desktop? GTFO! I'd sooner start using emacs instead of vim.
A somewhat anecdotal comment here, but I've using Debian stable as a daily driver for years, both at work and at home. Haven't had any issues yet.
It's so stable it's almost boring. 😀 However, this is fine since I can focus on getting stuff done instead of messing about with the distro.
I wanted to, and did manage to figure the installer out once, but damn it's user unfriendly... The os seems fine, installer was not. I had some other issues I was hoping would be fixed in Debian that weren't, so unfortunately I did not stick with it
Does debian even exist? I've never seen it... I've used a dozen flavors of "debian" Linux professionally, as well as the headwear related branches and centos... Most recently I've gotten into nixos (I tried a half dozen distros, none of the "Nvidia friendly" distros would work with my graphics card outside safe mode, even after debugging and official docs listing it as compatible with Ubuntu... Five lines in the nix config, will nix again)
All this time, I've seen countless mentions of this mythical debian... at this point I'm pretty sure it's just a meme, like Australia. I get Australia, someone mispronounced Austria and made up this wild story of a land full of deer who hop on two legs and kickbox (hilarious), but I don't get the joke with debian. Is it just supposed to be the mythical Linux that works on any hardware configuration?
I understand that this is a meme, but dismissing one of the best distro family because snaps are included is dumb. It is easy to uninstall snap entirely.
The only serious bummer is that the Firefox deb-package is now fake and only installs the snap version of Firefox. Go get Librewolf, which is basically a hardened Firefox, and use their repository.
It is fun to meme around when it is with people that are familiar with Linux. But some Windows/MacOS users who are interested in Linux might take you seriously. Ubuntu and Ubuntu-like distros are really good in terms of ease of use, support and compatibility. My first recommendation for a new Linux user is Ubuntu or variations thereof.
Yeah people will download a patched windows iso, go through an extremely complicated install process to have everything the way they want, flip a few bits in windows with some shady ass tool and give up updates instead of just using linux.
Gaming performance on Linux is excellent, I'm getting stable 60FPS on single player games on my old 1050 equipped laptop from 2016 that weren't even playable on the old Windows install.
Anticheat however is a different story, and CoD DMZ/Zombies is where I spend most of my gaming time so it's difficult to just give up a Windows install.
Doing all that takes about 2 hours. The shady ass tool is also unnecessary since you can manually change the registry entries. Once it's done I can install anything by double clicking the exe and it runs 99.9% of the time.
Linux meanwhile only takes half an hour to setup and update (if we are talking about a beginner friendly one like mint cinnamon), but you will use a lot more hours trying to get everything to run. There rarely are good drivers for peripherals, to get even slightly more then the most barebone functions of my logitech gear I have to run a shady github project someone slapped together 3 years ago. The adaptive clock on my laptop doesn't work, I loose about 2 hours of battery life and the touch pad stops working after a few hours.
I dualboot a win10 ltsc version and mint. By now most stuff runs fine on Linux, but it has taken me 10 times the effort to get to that state compared to windows. And even now I occasionally have to fiddle with wine cause it decides that this specific programm isn't to its liking. And that's ignoring the issue it was to run anything with anticheat. That requires a VM with GPU passtrough to even remotely work.
That's only an issue if you torrent your stuff in which case linux wont save you. A windows virus/cryptominer/keylogger/etc. won't natively work on Linux, but it will work if used with wine.
In my experience everything already had drivers installed on linux. I think with the logitech stuff you mean the stupid configuration ui that would perfectly work on linux but they choose to not port it(you can still use it with wine for example). All my keyboards have qmk so that works on linux. A github project is much less shady because you can check the source code. Idk whats wrong with your trackpad. Battery life is hit or miss on linux, i get more hours on linux currently but only after installing some stuff. On ubuntu or mint the battery life should be good out of the box. Anticheat is basically anti-linux so ofc it wont work. For me backwards compatibility is better on linux than windows. When i try to run old software on windows it never works. Software support is pretty good nowadays but some professional stuff wont work. If you do that you should go mac lol.
As a person who cares about the gaming ecosystem, I think it would be really healthy for Microsoft to not have full market dominance.
They're busy making studio acquisitions which are gradually centralizing the market, which could become very problematic if they start taking anticompetitive approaches to distribution.
More people on Linux means more pressure for software availability on Linux, and if people can just move over relatively easily that prevents Microsoft from going full corpo-digital-prison-hellscape.
I feel like I don't really care what my peers use, or what people in general use, but the more adoption linux desktop gets, the more people getting involved in community projects there are, as well as more bug reports and the like, so the sooner things get improved upon and the better they become.
Also more about being mainstream. I'm being forced to use proprietary centralised locked down platforms because others demand it. Free software going mainstream is one of my aims
More people using free software means more resources going into them, maybe industry-wide adoption. Would it not be awesome to have ODP be the standard file format for a document (because enough people use Linux to make an open standard necessary)? Interoperability will be a big thing if enough people start using Linux.
I have people asking me to help them install linux all the time. I am glad, in theory, but sad, in the practicality of having to work for free on my spare time.
Windows is made by a company that would make this change in some countries but not all countries. We are not free until we are all free. Some operating systems guarantee that. Others do not.
I don’t disagree with you but dude people are sick of the politicization of everything and their operating system doesn’t even get onto that radar. They are ignorant and quite happy of it. Please let the pigs eat their shit in peace.
That said, it is quite telling that Microsoft apparently finds it more advantageous to have two divergent feature sets than to apply the change universally.
I get where you are coming from. FWIW I'm being a jackass for the hell of it rather than trying to start a flame war. But if someone is to get upset about it, perhaps its something for them to reflect on later.
Idk, the whole "Megacorp is forced to do reasonable thing, but will still only do so in regions where the law applies" should further encourage people to move away from all their crap.
Older MacOS versions had stuff like the chess game preinstalled for no reason, though I don't know how current versions look like.
I also don't know how easy it is to remove preinstalled apps nowadays. Back in the day, you could disable System Integrity Protection, remove whatever you want, and re-enable Protection afterwards.
That chess game even predates OS X, it was a tech demo that came with the NextStep OS and has barely changed since the mid nineties. At this point it would be said to see it go.
"Oh man, I'd love to use Linux because then I wouldn't have to have Edge installed!" - Nobody. Ever.
People use Windows because it comes with the PC and it runs all their shit (maybe except some yellowing-beige and blue scanner from 1997) with no fucking about needed. They were never incentivised to use Linux. They don't know what an OS is, and more importantly, they don't care.
I've been a software engineer for many years so trust me when I say this has nothing to do with how hard or easy it is to install. I used to run Gentoo at some point so I'm not exactly CLI averse. The problem isn't the installation, it's maintenance. Shit just keeps on breaking for no reason and I'm tired of figuring out how to fix it.
Linux is simply an enormous timesink. It constantly needs handholding and babysitting in order to work. And it doesn't even reward you for it with a superior user experience, just a steady stream of problems to fix. Windows might not be perfect, but it at least it works. Meanwhile, Linux is like an insecure girlfriend, it constantly needs reassurance that you still love it.
Linux needs constant babysitting? Hmm I wonder why the majority of the internet servers is Linux not Windows. Even in critical infrastructure where stability is valued, not cost.
However you can't choose a bad distro (bad for your needs that is) ans expect a flawless experience. When I read your first sentence I expected you to be a video editor or in a field where the industry standard software is only limited to Windows. But if your a developer it's 100% your fault. I am running Linux for over a decade with zero problems. Only time when I had a problem, I was running Arch (btw) and updating the system blindly, daily.
You aren't dynamically changing configs, libraries and programs on a production server like you are on a user facing system. That the killer. Linux servers are only stable when you leave them alone.
Updates to servers are generally done by beta testing them on identical hardware in the lab and when you have a functioning image you send that to production. To expect that kind of treatment on a user facing system when you say update the web browser would be beyond unacceptable.
As long as GNU/Linux systems continue to have ABI compatibility issues and general buggy issues between updates, it will never be considered a decent user facing system.
Also the quality of code for CLI programs is far more roadtested than GUI related code since there are major corporate efforts to make Linux servers more stable. Since GUI systems aren't needed for servers they don't get the same level of attention. That attention comes from the KDE and gnome foundations which don't have nearly the same kind of money.
There's a reason people are celebrating Valve contributing to KDE and related GUI projects as there's finally some real money being thrown at the problem with real results.
I have had zero problems with Linux so I lack knowledge and am overpaid? You have problems therefore you are paid fairly? Hmm sounds very logical. Any critical infrastructure project would be lucky to have you.
Furthermore, you have told another commentor in this same thread that they reek of incompetence because they have a 7 hour Windows install, yet I am being overpaid because I don't have any problems in Linux? So a competent developer should breeze through Windows but should struggle in Linux? Is that it? Kinda contradictory don't you think?
The overlap of people that will not remove the initial bloat (even if it's a button displayed prominently on first start) and people inclined to use Linux in the first place is not that great.
Well, you could if the package was set up differently, or if you wanted to go at it manually. But they way the maintainers set the dependencies makes apt think it has to remove the whole DE, or at least a bunch of essential parts of it.
Is this some AI generated answer? I refuse to think a person can talk like that.
The "obviously" comes from the article which states that Microsoft allows uninstallilng software which obviously means they always could do that. They just didn't want to allow users to do it.
Can't you pass something like --unmerge or --nodeps so package manager will ignore dependencies? And then add it to apt equivalent of package.prpvided to tell that this package is managed by another package manager(you).
And still, it's been years (even decades) that all computers in France were supposed to be proposed without OS preinstalled and yet it's very difficult to find one, or even to be refunded the licence Price a posteriori.
Laws are being voted, removed, revoted, reremoved etc. and all justice actions have been a massive failure for consumers.
I hope this law will be more applied than what we had until now.
We are moving the correct way but we still are so far from equity.
Why would you pay for an incompetent sabotaging system?
I installed both windows and Linux about a week ago. Linux was (with download and USB creation) a little over 30 minutes. Windows was an agonizing 7 hour journey through all sorts of dumb vague error messages, internet searches disconnecting and reconnecting drives, various rewrites the that USB drive, having to spin up a VPS in Linux and install windows there first... It was a fucking nightmarish hellscsape caused by a mix of windows developers (and their managers) incompetence and pure sabotage of people that use real operating systems.
Fuck everything about Microsoft, install Linux and stick with that. We have cookies
NGL I gotta say that sounds like a fluke. I've never had to spend more than an hour on a fresh windows install. I run Windows on my desktop and Linux Mint on my laptop. So while I haven't done thousands of installs if 7 hours was a constant issue no one would be using Windows.
What kind og software did you need to find? Last time i did a fresh install of win10 (a couple of weeks ago), I downloaded Rufus to make the bootable USB and that was the only thing I needed to go "fish for all over the internet"... 30min later I was up and running, updates scheduled to run during the night when I didn't need to use the computer.
Download windows media tool. Start installation. Done in ~30 min. After install, downloads all necessary basic drivers automatically. Just have to download Nvidia GeForce. < I have installed my own PC yes, multiple times yes.
Enjoy your Linux, please don't lie to prove unexisting superiority.
How did you manage to do that? Installing Windows 11 only took me about 30 minutes last time.
Installing Debian takes about the same time.
And what does a VPS even have to do with all of this?
For me the 30 minutes to install is about right. After that I have usable Linux and an unusable Windows.
To get Windows to the same state:
Add 5 Minutes for clicking trough the "Do you want to enable handwriting? ((( We just allow ourselves to collect samples of everything you write to "improve our recognition engine" )))
Add 20-30 minutes of security updates (thankfully it got much faster with SSDs, before it could have been hours)
Add 20-30 minutes of installing necessary software like an office suite, PDF Reader with basic functionality, 7zip. This is only 30 minutes because I spent hours automating the downloads and installs trough scripts.
If it is my system or a company system: Add 20 minutes to go trough the settings of Win10Privacy to at least reduce the phoning home and to enable some necessary settings for working with the system like "Don't restart at random times"
Add 10 Minutes to remove the installed bloatware like People, Windows Maps, Windows Experience Host, ...
In summary:
Linux requires 5 minutes attention and is ready after 30min.
Windows requires 40 minutes of attention and is somewhat ready after 2h30min.
Even if I skip the privacy stuff its still at about 1h20min.
To be fair: On Windows and Linux I immediately install ublock to Firefox afterwards, on Linux I run a single apt command to install some more niche software which takes about 3 minutes on a fast network connection.
I'm sorry but you are just cherry picking. I'm not going into detail, but it sounds more like you have no knowledge on windows then you do. There are many ways to shorten installs for programs, those are not windows system and can be removed from your time, same for win10privacy, same for the 'bloatware'. In all that leaves 30 min install and 30 mins of security 'in the background' still 30min.
I am very happy if you can enlighten me. Granted, I do not install Windows very often (otherwise I would bake all these things into an image), and there may be improvements. So feel free to make your point and save me time.
An no, security updates can't run in the background. If I sit a user in front of a PC, the PC has to be secure. Which means that the zero day exploits from a few days ago which are already exploited in the wild have to be fixed.
Also yes, software for basic tasks and configuration till usability is reached is part of an operating system install. Otherwise you have to compare the time to install a barebones Linux (1 Minute) with a bare Windows install (still 30 minutes).
I currently use chocolatey for automation of software installs. But Libreoffice alone takes minutes to install on Windows even on fast PCs. If you know a better/faster tool I am happy to listen.
So, I came here with a bit of knowledge in Linux having fucked around with Ubuntu and Arch here and there, and I can tell you, even with a sturdy and non-rolling release like Fedora Silverblue, there are easily things I can do in Windows that just work without any additional overhead or configuration that simply does not work in Linux, like fingerprint sensors.
You guys all say Windows sucks and Linux is the greatest thing since sliced bread but it still can't do the fucking basics that Windows does in spades. When I install Windows on a machine, I have nearly a 100% guarantee that every single component is going to work properly with minimal config. When I try to do the same thing in Linux, it's hours on the Arch wiki or deep into forums trying to figure out how to get something as basic as a fingerprint sensor to work. That's not convenient for the average user, and you guys are not the goddamn average user, because you are okay with shit not working out of the box and doing configurations for a lot of little things that you would otherwise just take entirely for granted as simply working on Windows.
As great as Linux can be, using windows without the bloat or spyware is fine by me. Hell, using it with all that is fine just so long as the end user is happy.
Are we still forgetting that Win12 will have subscription? Or at least it might. Then their terms of agreement state clearly that they will collect your personal data and share them if they see the need for it. I mean there's more to it than being able to uninstall IE.
Not being allowed to remove an app has lead about two people to switch from windows in the last 10000years.
When will the EU force Vim to let users out?
Hit Esc then type "q!" <- how hard was that? Don't listen to the vimxit liars
Don't forget the ':' before the q!, when you type ':' you enter command mode, the q command quits the file and putting an exclamation mark after the q doesn't save the file and forces the file to be closed
Or if you want to text edit in hardcore mode, only use :x to exit. For after you've gotten used to vim and want to bring back some of the challenge.
Ok, I may have forgotten about the ":" but I stand by the rest, if you can't remember how to do a qw, then you can't be trusted to write to a file.
So you can’t be trusted to write a file.
No, I'm not trust worthy
Thanks for being honest. I’ll ask someone else when I need to write a file.
In the end linux is about choice, if you don't want to remember the commands to edit with vim, there are text editors like nano or some kind of notepad program from your DE
Open a new terminal and type
sudo killall vimreboot to assert dominance
Reject modernity, return to having a single 120v power switch on the front of the computer!
There was a post about custom PC starting switches, and one built a gong starter. Now that would be a boss reboot.
You must still be trapped
I'm very close to just editing that comment
'ZZ' you heathen
I still dual boot for a few games and one piece of hardware that just don’t work on GNU/Linux, but I’m almost certainly never going back.
There was an ad for Tik Tok in my Start Menu after the last update. Fuck everything about that sentence.
Uhh what hardware isn't working? Is it something really niche? For some reason I like hearing about stuff like that.
It’s an old audio card. The output and input work, but it retains the volume level and mix settings as last adjusted in Windows. I’ll replace it eventually with a DAC and amp, which is what we put together for my wife’s build last year.
It’s the nuAudio card (non-pro version) from EVGA. There are a few work around a, one of which is backflashing old firmware to get some level of control in Linux, but I don’t like the tradeoff and a couple of my Elite: Dangerous tools don’t work well on Linux anyway, so I need the Windows install for that.
I also keep a windows boot around just for updating my tomtom wirh map updates. Tried under Linux but the mydrive software just will not work. If anyone knows how to update a tomtom rider 400 under Linux, let me know.
If your corporate environment didn't use GPO to just disable the suggestions (just like what you can do on the home edition to get rid of any and all ads), then I suggest they get someone actually knowledgeable in IT to manage their servers.
I know it's a meme but it's crazy to me that some people think the average person cares about computers at all (let alone what OS is running)
Perhaps you are right, but now those two individuals can finally switch back to using Windows.
As one of them, no thank you. Windows is doing plenty of other crap and I don’t like and it turns out linux is kinda fun. Also once I finally understand what I’m doing I can set up a home server and other cool stuff.
Also I’m not european so I can’t actually switch back
having your own NAS rocks! i run jellyfin and adguard under truenas.
Yeah I’m just a shit programmer. I just have a few old workstations, a desire to eventually set up a jellyfin setup, and little enough knowledge that the beginner guides are often above my level
honestly, i barely know how to write shit for an arduino. i have no prior experience with software. linux stuff is learning by doing. try something and see if that works. the text tutorials in the documentations are often the best way to install stuff. you'll eventually figure it out.
Well I guess I'm one of the 2 then
Me too
Me three..?
But they still won't be able to remove all of the baked-in spyware.
Try Ubuntu, you can uninstall the baked in spyware
Try Debian, you can install the spyware
Tried Debian stable, kept not being able to get stuff to work because of the packages always being too old. Not advocating for Ubuntu either, but Debian? For a desktop? GTFO! I'd sooner start using emacs instead of vim.
So many things these days are flatpaks and app images. So it almost doesn’t matter.
I’m don’t know your situation but I’m sure there are reasons someone might not be able to use Debian desktop.
isn't ubuntu based on debian stable and so have even older packages?
Ubuntu has its own repos independent from Debians
A somewhat anecdotal comment here, but I've using Debian stable as a daily driver for years, both at work and at home. Haven't had any issues yet. It's so stable it's almost boring. 😀 However, this is fine since I can focus on getting stuff done instead of messing about with the distro.
I wanted to, and did manage to figure the installer out once, but damn it's user unfriendly... The os seems fine, installer was not. I had some other issues I was hoping would be fixed in Debian that weren't, so unfortunately I did not stick with it
The website is the least user friendly of all distros lol
Does debian even exist? I've never seen it... I've used a dozen flavors of "debian" Linux professionally, as well as the headwear related branches and centos... Most recently I've gotten into nixos (I tried a half dozen distros, none of the "Nvidia friendly" distros would work with my graphics card outside safe mode, even after debugging and official docs listing it as compatible with Ubuntu... Five lines in the nix config, will nix again)
All this time, I've seen countless mentions of this mythical debian... at this point I'm pretty sure it's just a meme, like Australia. I get Australia, someone mispronounced Austria and made up this wild story of a land full of deer who hop on two legs and kickbox (hilarious), but I don't get the joke with debian. Is it just supposed to be the mythical Linux that works on any hardware configuration?
Moving to an entirely different operating system is a big step just to... end up with closed, proprietary software and spyware again.
Snaps, I think I'll pass.
Even without them, I don't have time to uninstall/remove everything I don't need.
DIY distros suit my needs more, but thanks anyway.
I understand that this is a meme, but dismissing one of the best distro family because snaps are included is dumb. It is easy to uninstall snap entirely.
The only serious bummer is that the Firefox deb-package is now fake and only installs the snap version of Firefox. Go get Librewolf, which is basically a hardened Firefox, and use their repository.
It is fun to meme around when it is with people that are familiar with Linux. But some Windows/MacOS users who are interested in Linux might take you seriously. Ubuntu and Ubuntu-like distros are really good in terms of ease of use, support and compatibility. My first recommendation for a new Linux user is Ubuntu or variations thereof.
If you switch why not go alway? Try Linux from scratch or Arch/Debian, Ubuntu is only a few steps behind MS in term of spyware
You can try linux mint debian edition
https://www.linuxmint.com/download_lmde.php
If it really was that much spyware, the EU would already have created laws to do something about it.
More likely is that it really isn't spyware as much as it is basic unanimous telemetry, which you can disable in the settings.
Time for Ubuntu to ship with a mandatory Edge installation
Don’t give them any ideas
meanwhile, me on Arch:
yay -S microsoft-edge-stable-binYeah, as if Arch was not bleeding edge enough.
Godspede to the madlad who needed that to exist
People have already proven they will put up with about anything Microsoft throws at them, so they were never going to switch anyway.
Also you still can't uninstall the bootloader under windows.😆
Yeah people will download a patched windows iso, go through an extremely complicated install process to have everything the way they want, flip a few bits in windows with some shady ass tool and give up updates instead of just using linux.
we shouldnt value childrens opinions in adult conversations
Gaming performance on Linux is excellent, I'm getting stable 60FPS on single player games on my old 1050 equipped laptop from 2016 that weren't even playable on the old Windows install.
Anticheat however is a different story, and CoD DMZ/Zombies is where I spend most of my gaming time so it's difficult to just give up a Windows install.
Doing all that takes about 2 hours. The shady ass tool is also unnecessary since you can manually change the registry entries. Once it's done I can install anything by double clicking the exe and it runs 99.9% of the time.
Linux meanwhile only takes half an hour to setup and update (if we are talking about a beginner friendly one like mint cinnamon), but you will use a lot more hours trying to get everything to run. There rarely are good drivers for peripherals, to get even slightly more then the most barebone functions of my logitech gear I have to run a shady github project someone slapped together 3 years ago. The adaptive clock on my laptop doesn't work, I loose about 2 hours of battery life and the touch pad stops working after a few hours.
I dualboot a win10 ltsc version and mint. By now most stuff runs fine on Linux, but it has taken me 10 times the effort to get to that state compared to windows. And even now I occasionally have to fiddle with wine cause it decides that this specific programm isn't to its liking. And that's ignoring the issue it was to run anything with anticheat. That requires a VM with GPU passtrough to even remotely work.
cybercriminal heavy breathing
That's only an issue if you torrent your stuff in which case linux wont save you. A windows virus/cryptominer/keylogger/etc. won't natively work on Linux, but it will work if used with wine.
You joking right? Torrents are not the main attack vector XD who told you this fairy tale?
Also imagine using wine, wtf
In my experience everything already had drivers installed on linux. I think with the logitech stuff you mean the stupid configuration ui that would perfectly work on linux but they choose to not port it(you can still use it with wine for example). All my keyboards have qmk so that works on linux. A github project is much less shady because you can check the source code. Idk whats wrong with your trackpad. Battery life is hit or miss on linux, i get more hours on linux currently but only after installing some stuff. On ubuntu or mint the battery life should be good out of the box. Anticheat is basically anti-linux so ofc it wont work. For me backwards compatibility is better on linux than windows. When i try to run old software on windows it never works. Software support is pretty good nowadays but some professional stuff wont work. If you do that you should go mac lol.
Good on you, but that is far from everyones experience with Linux.
It's going to be one of those things where someone is either going to switch to Linux or they're not. Most people will take convenience over privacy.
Honestly, Windows isn't even that much more convenient. It's just what people are used to.
Now that I'm used to Linux Windows makes me pull my hair out.
Even just creating a functioning bootable usb stick with windows is a pain. Why are those stupid windows iso so damn picky?
Exactly
Funny. For me switching to Linux was actually a convenience and aesthetics over privacy ngl.
Since when does microsoft windows have good privacy?
Oh, you're right. I'm seeing now they were referring to the short term inconvenience of installing an OS, and not comparing windows and linux distros.
I'm not really concerned about getting more people to use Linux. Am I the only one?
As a person who cares about the gaming ecosystem, I think it would be really healthy for Microsoft to not have full market dominance.
They're busy making studio acquisitions which are gradually centralizing the market, which could become very problematic if they start taking anticompetitive approaches to distribution.
More people on Linux means more pressure for software availability on Linux, and if people can just move over relatively easily that prevents Microsoft from going full corpo-digital-prison-hellscape.
I feel like I don't really care what my peers use, or what people in general use, but the more adoption linux desktop gets, the more people getting involved in community projects there are, as well as more bug reports and the like, so the sooner things get improved upon and the better they become.
Also more about being mainstream. I'm being forced to use proprietary centralised locked down platforms because others demand it. Free software going mainstream is one of my aims
like?
Whatsapp, google meet, gmail, google classroom...
But all of those have web versions no?
That doesnt matter. I want softeare freedom and not just to barely run on linux. Forcing proprietary platforms ate ridiculus.
I am using a mobile phone
Well, more people on Linux means more software support.
we already have all the free software, im not missing adobe bullshit or other proprietary crap.
More people using free software means more resources going into them, maybe industry-wide adoption. Would it not be awesome to have ODP be the standard file format for a document (because enough people use Linux to make an open standard necessary)? Interoperability will be a big thing if enough people start using Linux.
I mean personally I'm not missing anything so I don't see the benefits.
I care because by not using linux there is money going to microsoft or apple hands, which are not very friendly to user rights.
I have people asking me to help them install linux all the time. I am glad, in theory, but sad, in the practicality of having to work for free on my spare time.
i used to care, now i dont give a flying fuck.
if people are too stupid to use a superior and free system, fuck em.
Haha well, that's one way to think about it I guess.
Lets be honest, people don't switch to Linux because it's better, we switch because of the cute pinguin mascot !
And because it's free in many ways.
Or Chameleon if in EU.
It's OpenSUSE.
Or Larry the Cow.
Don't forget the cute blue upercase A.
Never heard of anything like that. The chameleon it is.
Femboy A :3
Who gives a shit what other people use?
Too many Linux users do, unfortinuately.
Windows is made by a company that would make this change in some countries but not all countries. We are not free until we are all free. Some operating systems guarantee that. Others do not.
I don’t disagree with you but dude people are sick of the politicization of everything and their operating system doesn’t even get onto that radar. They are ignorant and quite happy of it. Please let the pigs eat their shit in peace.
That said, it is quite telling that Microsoft apparently finds it more advantageous to have two divergent feature sets than to apply the change universally.
I get where you are coming from. FWIW I'm being a jackass for the hell of it rather than trying to start a flame war. But if someone is to get upset about it, perhaps its something for them to reflect on later.
It's a little naive to think that this was an incentive to use Linux for ppl in the first place.
Idk, the whole "Megacorp is forced to do reasonable thing, but will still only do so in regions where the law applies" should further encourage people to move away from all their crap.
Overnight, millions will suddenly somehow become European.
I wonder if they will try IP based Geo enforcement? How long do you think before Rufus allows flipping the bit to force this globally on install?
No. A lot of people simply don't care about their browser enough to take any action, let alone to bypass geo-restrictions.
The people who do care have already switched to Linux.
Shouldn’t the same be applied to MacOS? There are a myriad of stupid apps impossible to uninstall. Maybe even safari
Does Mac prohibit other browser engines like they do on iOS?
Doesn't do a lot of good, that they let you use other browsers if they are just reskins for Safari.
MacOS is actually far more open to low level system UI tweaks and app support than windows.
They do not.
I remember Mac os ignoring my default browser choice many times and instead launching a web page in safari.
True, I forgot that part. Thanks! Still, it comes as weird for me to have software (zero tied to OS functions ) I cannot remove
Mac literally doesn't allow any other browser engine. They only allow webkit.
So your options are:
Safari
Safari with Chrome aesthetics
Safari with Firefox aesthetics
Safari with [insert browser here] aesthetics
Like what ?
Older MacOS versions had stuff like the chess game preinstalled for no reason, though I don't know how current versions look like.
I also don't know how easy it is to remove preinstalled apps nowadays. Back in the day, you could disable System Integrity Protection, remove whatever you want, and re-enable Protection afterwards.
That chess game even predates OS X, it was a tech demo that came with the NextStep OS and has barely changed since the mid nineties. At this point it would be said to see it go.
The odd thing is that some of them are uninstallable on iOS/iPadOS...
Don't worry, there's still plenty of reasons Windows sucks and they'll only make it worse.
"Oh man, I'd love to use Linux because then I wouldn't have to have Edge installed!" - Nobody. Ever.
People use Windows because it comes with the PC and it runs all their shit (maybe except some yellowing-beige and blue scanner from 1997) with no fucking about needed. They were never incentivised to use Linux. They don't know what an OS is, and more importantly, they don't care.
Also most software is written for that default os and if they ran into most of the common issues linux users do theyd throw it in the bin.
As someone who has has tried repeatedly for more than ten years to use Linux, Linux is already doing a good enough job at that without their help.
skill issues
Just try fedora, its easy
I've been a software engineer for many years so trust me when I say this has nothing to do with how hard or easy it is to install. I used to run Gentoo at some point so I'm not exactly CLI averse. The problem isn't the installation, it's maintenance. Shit just keeps on breaking for no reason and I'm tired of figuring out how to fix it.
Linux is simply an enormous timesink. It constantly needs handholding and babysitting in order to work. And it doesn't even reward you for it with a superior user experience, just a steady stream of problems to fix. Windows might not be perfect, but it at least it works. Meanwhile, Linux is like an insecure girlfriend, it constantly needs reassurance that you still love it.
Linux needs constant babysitting? Hmm I wonder why the majority of the internet servers is Linux not Windows. Even in critical infrastructure where stability is valued, not cost.
However you can't choose a bad distro (bad for your needs that is) ans expect a flawless experience. When I read your first sentence I expected you to be a video editor or in a field where the industry standard software is only limited to Windows. But if your a developer it's 100% your fault. I am running Linux for over a decade with zero problems. Only time when I had a problem, I was running Arch (btw) and updating the system blindly, daily.
You aren't dynamically changing configs, libraries and programs on a production server like you are on a user facing system. That the killer. Linux servers are only stable when you leave them alone.
Updates to servers are generally done by beta testing them on identical hardware in the lab and when you have a functioning image you send that to production. To expect that kind of treatment on a user facing system when you say update the web browser would be beyond unacceptable.
As long as GNU/Linux systems continue to have ABI compatibility issues and general buggy issues between updates, it will never be considered a decent user facing system.
Also the quality of code for CLI programs is far more roadtested than GUI related code since there are major corporate efforts to make Linux servers more stable. Since GUI systems aren't needed for servers they don't get the same level of attention. That attention comes from the KDE and gnome foundations which don't have nearly the same kind of money.
There's a reason people are celebrating Valve contributing to KDE and related GUI projects as there's finally some real money being thrown at the problem with real results.
Those servers aren't being changed almost ever outside of required updates, a user workstation is much more volatile in regular everyday use.
You sound like you have hobbyist level IT knowledge.
Then I should be grateful that my employer is paying me despite my hobbyist level knowledge.
Whatever your employer pays, they are overpaying you.
I have had zero problems with Linux so I lack knowledge and am overpaid? You have problems therefore you are paid fairly? Hmm sounds very logical. Any critical infrastructure project would be lucky to have you.
Furthermore, you have told another commentor in this same thread that they reek of incompetence because they have a 7 hour Windows install, yet I am being overpaid because I don't have any problems in Linux? So a competent developer should breeze through Windows but should struggle in Linux? Is that it? Kinda contradictory don't you think?
Oh yes, Linux is great for servers, not doubt, but on the desktop, not so much. Unless all you do is administering Linux servers, I guess.
The year of Linux cancelled. /s
The year of the DESKTOP Linux. Linux has already won everywhere else.
What are the limits of this new law? Certainly state sponsored spyware are protected from this, for example
Edge isn't as bad nowadays, and it's not much more of a spyware than Google Chrome, the meme browser.
Which still is pretty bad. Honestly we should avoid chromium.
But as far as chromium is concerned, yeah Edge is pretty good. I used it until the anti adblock shenanigans
Same here, switched to FF for almost a year now beside AdBlock Edge is far better than Chrome
Ayy. Seems like the Edge to Firefox Pipeline is real.
Tbh I switched out of protest, not out of personal issues caused. It's why I use duckduckgo instead of Google too.
Brave, but true. If one is going to use chrome, then Edge would probably be better for them.
The overlap of people that will not remove the initial bloat (even if it's a button displayed prominently on first start) and people inclined to use Linux in the first place is not that great.
Well at least it doesn't fire off background processes even if you don't use it.
Well, you could if the package was set up differently, or if you wanted to go at it manually. But they way the maintainers set the dependencies makes apt think it has to remove the whole DE, or at least a bunch of essential parts of it.
That's the point. Obviously you can uninstall any windows application too, it's just that Microsoft doesn't want you to.
Is this some AI generated answer? I refuse to think a person can talk like that.
The "obviously" comes from the article which states that Microsoft allows uninstallilng software which obviously means they always could do that. They just didn't want to allow users to do it.
Can't you pass something like
--unmergeor--nodepsso package manager will ignore dependencies? And then add it to apt equivalent ofpackage.prpvidedto tell that this package is managed by another package manager(you).And still, it's been years (even decades) that all computers in France were supposed to be proposed without OS preinstalled and yet it's very difficult to find one, or even to be refunded the licence Price a posteriori. Laws are being voted, removed, revoted, reremoved etc. and all justice actions have been a massive failure for consumers. I hope this law will be more applied than what we had until now.
We are moving the correct way but we still are so far from equity.
Funny because I have edge installed on my Linux laptop for some work stuff
Yeah I have edge installed on my Steam Deck to play games via xcloud
You may want to consider quitting then
Yeah screw this guy's income, livelihood, and health insurance because of a web browser for work. Amirite guys?
Exactly 😎
Maybe I should have explicitly say I was joking, I didn't think anyone would think otherwise lol
You are on linuxmemes here, opinions exactly like that are all too frequent.
lemmy user understanding a joke challenge(impossible)
Lol no I'm happy I can work on Linux laptop in the first place.
Also I'm very much enjoying my work right now
You can't be happy with Edge. You might think you are, but that's just an illusion.
Now, seriously, maybe I should have explicitly say I was joking, I didn't think anyone would think otherwise lol use whatever you want.
lol how is this downvoted it was funny
Plenty more reasons, thank you very much.
There’s an app called “whatever”? Is it the new WhatsApp? Or an app about being indifferent?
If you are too stupid for your own good it's not our problem.
Install Linux anyway
Why would you pay for an incompetent sabotaging system?
I installed both windows and Linux about a week ago. Linux was (with download and USB creation) a little over 30 minutes. Windows was an agonizing 7 hour journey through all sorts of dumb vague error messages, internet searches disconnecting and reconnecting drives, various rewrites the that USB drive, having to spin up a VPS in Linux and install windows there first... It was a fucking nightmarish hellscsape caused by a mix of windows developers (and their managers) incompetence and pure sabotage of people that use real operating systems.
Fuck everything about Microsoft, install Linux and stick with that. We have cookies
NGL I gotta say that sounds like a fluke. I've never had to spend more than an hour on a fresh windows install. I run Windows on my desktop and Linux Mint on my laptop. So while I haven't done thousands of installs if 7 hours was a constant issue no one would be using Windows.
It's 7 hours when you factor in the updates and the time spent having to go fish for software all over the Internet.
Maybe use an installer that was downloaded more recently than 2015?
What kind og software did you need to find? Last time i did a fresh install of win10 (a couple of weeks ago), I downloaded Rufus to make the bootable USB and that was the only thing I needed to go "fish for all over the internet"... 30min later I was up and running, updates scheduled to run during the night when I didn't need to use the computer.
Fish for software... honestly it's harder to find your shit working for Linux than windows. But to each their own department.
I can count the times that I've needed windows for something other than a game (no longer an issue) in the past 25+ years on one hand.
There are plenty of things to hate Windows for.
But a 7 hour fresh install is not one of them. That just reeks of incompetence.
Exactly. Hate windows how you want, but don't lie to prove a point.
Download windows media tool. Start installation. Done in ~30 min. After install, downloads all necessary basic drivers automatically. Just have to download Nvidia GeForce. < I have installed my own PC yes, multiple times yes.
Enjoy your Linux, please don't lie to prove unexisting superiority.
How did you manage to do that? Installing Windows 11 only took me about 30 minutes last time. Installing Debian takes about the same time. And what does a VPS even have to do with all of this?
For me the 30 minutes to install is about right. After that I have usable Linux and an unusable Windows.
To get Windows to the same state:
In summary:
Linux requires 5 minutes attention and is ready after 30min.
Windows requires 40 minutes of attention and is somewhat ready after 2h30min. Even if I skip the privacy stuff its still at about 1h20min.
To be fair: On Windows and Linux I immediately install ublock to Firefox afterwards, on Linux I run a single apt command to install some more niche software which takes about 3 minutes on a fast network connection.
I'm sorry but you are just cherry picking. I'm not going into detail, but it sounds more like you have no knowledge on windows then you do. There are many ways to shorten installs for programs, those are not windows system and can be removed from your time, same for win10privacy, same for the 'bloatware'. In all that leaves 30 min install and 30 mins of security 'in the background' still 30min.
I am very happy if you can enlighten me. Granted, I do not install Windows very often (otherwise I would bake all these things into an image), and there may be improvements. So feel free to make your point and save me time.
An no, security updates can't run in the background. If I sit a user in front of a PC, the PC has to be secure. Which means that the zero day exploits from a few days ago which are already exploited in the wild have to be fixed. Also yes, software for basic tasks and configuration till usability is reached is part of an operating system install. Otherwise you have to compare the time to install a barebones Linux (1 Minute) with a bare Windows install (still 30 minutes).
I currently use chocolatey for automation of software installs. But Libreoffice alone takes minutes to install on Windows even on fast PCs. If you know a better/faster tool I am happy to listen.
So, I came here with a bit of knowledge in Linux having fucked around with Ubuntu and Arch here and there, and I can tell you, even with a sturdy and non-rolling release like Fedora Silverblue, there are easily things I can do in Windows that just work without any additional overhead or configuration that simply does not work in Linux, like fingerprint sensors.
You guys all say Windows sucks and Linux is the greatest thing since sliced bread but it still can't do the fucking basics that Windows does in spades. When I install Windows on a machine, I have nearly a 100% guarantee that every single component is going to work properly with minimal config. When I try to do the same thing in Linux, it's hours on the Arch wiki or deep into forums trying to figure out how to get something as basic as a fingerprint sensor to work. That's not convenient for the average user, and you guys are not the goddamn average user, because you are okay with shit not working out of the box and doing configurations for a lot of little things that you would otherwise just take entirely for granted as simply working on Windows.
my xps13 fingerprint sensor works perfectly out of the box...
also why bring up arch? that distro is literally made for thinkerers. you need to compare windows to ubuntu or fedora...
As great as Linux can be, using windows without the bloat or spyware is fine by me. Hell, using it with all that is fine just so long as the end user is happy.
Are we still forgetting that Win12 will have subscription? Or at least it might. Then their terms of agreement state clearly that they will collect your personal data and share them if they see the need for it. I mean there's more to it than being able to uninstall IE.
Windows 12 is not going to require a subscription
I too doubt this will be the case but there was a news report claiming Microsoft is contemplating such a thing.
There are no apple ads on twitter.