Your car is a smartphone on wheels: A team of researchers tested 21 vehicles and found that all of them transmitted data to a third-party domain. And over half were pinging advertising companies.
cross-posted from: https://piefed.world/c/tech/p/1432229/your-car-is-a-smartphone-on-wheels-a-team-of-researchers-tested-21-vehicles-and-found-th
Data sent by vehicles and companion apps included locations, VINs, and other identifiers. Amazon, Google, Meta, and Microsoft were among the top receivers of driver data.
https://www.consumerreports.org/electronics/personal-information/your-car-is-sharing-data-with-big-tech-companies-study-finds-a4474820962/Open linkView original on piefed.world
84 replies
We just bought a new car this year (Kia) and I completely confused the sales lady when I told her we were not going to use the "connect app" or activate connect on the car itself. She was like "lets get you setup in connect" and I was "no thanks"
We have a nice 🚫 symbol with a radio tree behind it, so I 100% know the car is still connected to the cell network but it is not registered/connected to us, and no app installed.
Sure, we lose some functionality (remote start, and access to in-car wifi) but all of that is paid subscriptions. Sure they first x months are 'free' but after you gotta pony up $ to continue.
Note: I'm under no illusion tracking is just not happening for us now... I just want to make it harder where I can.
My wife just got a newer car last week so I'm asking you because you know more than I.
We never connected a phone to it but the GPS worked right off the bat. Do cars have standalone GPS now? As long as we don't connect a phone, it can't reach the internet, right?
Cars have had standalone GNSS (GPS) for quite a while. GNSS itself doesn’t require internet. Its output is coordinates and elevation - it’s the “gotta have internet to load the map in which I’ll show you the coordinates” that makes people associate GNSS with internet. Offline maps solve this.
Unless it has local maps like mine that are now a decade out of date. It's completely useless now but i refuse to pay several 100 for the update.
If it's a decade out of date, it may be old enough that the maps live on a DVD or SD card, in which case you might be able to get updated maps for free. Yarr!
Ya a lot will have gps built in but as others have said, the map will be static (whatever version was put in when built). Unless you have it updated by connecting it or buying an updated USB or whatever is required for your car
So ya it's likely yours has both a gps antenna and navigation built in.
It must have a sim card somewhere right? How else is it phoning home?
eSIM. Gotta gut the modem and hopefully not break anything
Maybe start with removing the fuse for the modem to make sure nothing essential breaks?
Worth a shot. The question is whether the modem has its own fuse and isn’t integrated into the head unit
It is of course different for different brands, models and model year but my car seems to have a fuse for the Internet connection.
I'm getting tempted to pull it and see what happens more than the fault code.
I’d do it
Oh ya for sure it has a sim.
If it were my daily driver I'd dig in, find the antenna and shunt it to ground so it could not communicate
My wife is already not fully onboard with my need for privacy from these companies so I won regarding not activating the car but not sure she'd let me start pulling panels to find and kill the antenna.
My car isn’t because it’s old and stupid.
I hate my 2013 Mazda but also love it. Stupid and full of bad memories
I just sold my 2013 for a 2011. I'm reverting!
The article talks about both apps and the vehicles themselves. I would really like to see more info on what the cars do when you take the apps out of the equation. Are there any that don't phone home unless you explicitly give them internet access?
I look forward to reading this.
Edit: actually there's quite a bit more detailed info at https://automatictransmission.khoury.northeastern.edu/
I'm still not sure if those require giving the car a WiFi/cellular connection or if it'll just use it's own... I've heard that cars use their own SIMs to phone home, but I don't actually know how prevalent that is
I know for a fact Ford ships a modem with a SIM and they use it sparingly because it's expensive. Don't know abt the rest.
That graphic is less than useless without any source to back it up though...for all we know this could be AI garbage you just generated.
It's in the article that they were responding to. So you are just wildely throwing out negativity without any comprehension.
That edit with the link came after my comment it seems
It's also in the article OP posted...
Stop hitting them, they already dead.
No it's not, that's a different graph although it has similar data.
Do remind me
Would REALLY love to de-surveillance my vehicle if anybody has any tips (please quietly make the "buy an old car instead" jokes to yourself)
Find and disconnect the telemetry antenna. If the telemetry is in a discrete unit delete that too.
Don't do anything irreversible in case the manufacturer has booby trapped the car to go in to limp mode without the portable flock setup.
Okay, but how do they fill the giant hole in the middle of the dash now?
(/srs can just cut off all antennas but this will make the computer waste battery trying to connect so the car may not start after a while if it's combustion engine)
That's the interface to you not the one to the cell, in case anyone doesn't know.
Usually both because cheaper. Usually.
In many cars, the modem that phones home with your data may be a separate unit. Depending on your make and model, you can sometimes buy cable adapters that will connect power to everything except that subsystem. The term to search for is a "DCM bypass plug".
That's not a joke, it's sincere advice. My newest car is a 2008 (I think) model. I'd love to have an EV, but I don't because I haven't figured out how to have one that isn't infected by "telemetry" and other enshittification. I have hopes for the Slate Truck, but it doesn't actually exist yet, so I wait.
(Also, yes, as a mod of the place I'd be remiss if I didn't second the other reply and suggest adopting a non-car-dependent lifestyle to begin with.)
Many cars have the modem / LTE as a module that can be disabled. On my car, a 2018 Chevy, the LTE antenna plugs into a networking module in the footwell. I bought an antenna cable and dummy load resistor on Amazon for ~$10 and simply unplugged the LTE antenna in the car and plugged in the dummy antenna. That disables all cell network connectivity but doesn't effect things like Bluetooth. It's also easily reversible if someone wanted to do that for some reason.
You can probably Google something like "year make model disable LTE" or "disable telemetry" to get an idea of how hard it would be on your car. Some make it very cheap / easy and some make it very difficult.
Buy an old car
![email protected]
The one time I'm happy that Toyota was so far behind the competition - I've a 2020 Prius and its infotainment looks a decade out of date but that means it's very offline.
Would rather drive a rust bucket. I do drive a rust bucket. I'm not affraid of scratching it. I don't feel I have to always keep it pristine clean. I'm not affraid of working on it myself. I'm not being
chargedrobbed subscriptions for equipment already installed. I'm not wondering wether I'm being tracked by sick fucking creeps.I'm driving my crv until the wheels fall off and then I'm gluing them back on
my '08 (that a bought a '12 to replace) is a rusty pos that needs a lot of high-mileage maintenance and regular maintenance (rusty af everything, gas tank is gonna start leaking soon, pretty much the entire suspension is shot, power steering starting to leak, some sort of engine issues that I'm not sure what exactly is causing it, rusty exhaust headers causing some of the engine issues), but since I can't get any money for it, I'm not sure when exactly I'm going to get rid of it. might as well keep it around until I know for sure I don't want to fix it
The way I see it, we're about six months out from Mad Max: American Edition. Might make a good road warrior sacrifice vehicle.
I hope the study specifically publishes the data on the Model 3. I bought one before I became much more privacy conscious, but I've done my best to mitigate the leakage from that. In doing so, I read through all of Tesla's terms and conditions upon opt out and sending any of my information or information that can be used to identify or profile me, should never be sold to advertisers. I write software licenses for a living so I'm pretty confident in my reading on this. It would be interesting to see what can currently be mitigated by changing some settings and what cannot.
Similar findings as:
https://www.mozillafoundation.org/en/blog/privacy-nightmare-on-wheels-every-car-brand-reviewed-by-mozilla-including-ford-volkswagen-and-toyota-flunks-privacy-test/
and https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2024/12/cars-and-drivers-2024-year-review
Petition: https://www.mozillafoundation.org/en/campaigns/car-companies/
I have a 2008 car, it doesn't even chime when I don't put my seatbelt on.
After driving a 2024 Subaru, I realize that I am a very fortunate person, and I live a life of silence and peaceful reflection.
2010 models at the latest, I am only going to own old vehicles until this beeping madness ends.
How long until new models show advertisements on the dash related to your conversations? Three years, tops.
I have a 2011 Honda Civic, and it has just enough tech to allow Bluetooth calling. Everything else is old fashioned. I'll have the engine completely rebuilt before I buy one of these bullshit new cars.
I have a 2011 Silverado 4wd that I lucked into real cheap right before covid. I ripped the OnStar out of it and I hope it never dies 'cause I won't ever be able to afford anything like it again.
Inb4 the anti truck bitchfest. I live in the sticks, and use it the way a truck needs to be used.
Good thing is you can permanently disable most of the safety beeps on Subarus. I did on mine.
2006 car with manual transmission. There's exactly enough computer in it to run the ignition and oil change timer.
And if I were to use a screwdriver to pop a component off of the motherboard, which website would tell me the component to target for my make/model?
Disconnect the antennas. Its easier and reversible
The ECU in my 1991 Chevy k2500 is little more than a desk calculator that can turn throttle position into injector duty cycle and ignition timing. Good luck advertising companies.
OBD1 sucks, though. 1995 through 2010-ish (i.e. OBD2 but no telemetry) is much better.
OBD1 is fine if you know how to deal with it. The second generation throttle body fuel injection from gm is crude but works as are most of the obd1 systems... They're usually simple enough that no advanced diagnostics is ever needed.
You should tell that to the multiple mechanics that have just flat-out refused to work on my '94 Toyota because it isn't OBD2.
Because their $8k snap-on scantool and AllData subscription doesn't plug into it anymore. That's just them being lazy and/or not having the time to find old service manuals
Interesting to see Subaru at the very bottom - barely anything, but Toyota is the opposite, sucking up big data like they're General Motors
Edit: can confirm my car isn't doing anything - when I upgraded my head unit, I discovered unconnected wires where a telemetry module would be
Doubly interesting because the Subaru Solterra is a Toyota. But I guess Subaru has their own infotainment in it? I haven't really test driven one.
Subaru definitely uses the same hardware, but I know their software is different. Even the PCM performs very differently on the dinosaurs, even though they use the same Denso computers as Toyotas - just look into how aggressively Subarus fast idle when cold for an example... how many cars do you know of are programmed to hit fast idle come hell or high water? Most cars will cancel fast idle if you engage a gear, or limit the fast idle throttle, but the Subaru will send it if you try to keep the RPM below fast idle when cold. Also the "clear flood start" feature that deliberately doesn't fire the injectors when you put your foot to the floor when starting the engine.
I hate this style of titles. I'm a gearhead and own 5 vehicles and a motorcycle. None of them are a smartphone on wheels, the newest one is newly 20 years old.
While I have a 2024 Honda Civic, it doesn't have a cell connection (though it does have a form of GPS). I'm fine with that, but I'm surprised that it didn't even have that option.
You can disconnect that cell connection. I have a 2018 Accord and there is a module in the trunk that has a plug you just pull it out.
The more you know. 🌠
Sportier cars seem to somewhat have escaped that trend. Subaru BRZs have had pretty much the same interior for a while. First gen 2013-2020 had no built in internet. The second gen looks similar, although I'm not sure if it still is as basic.
Are you sure? If it's possible to have Honda link then it's very likely got a connection, it's just not for you.
I just need to get from point a to point b. I don't need some goddamn home entertainment system connected to everything else.
I also don't want it, which is arguably the more important point as the customer
Most want it.
Just get yourself a '97 4Runner, there are no trackers in a '97 4Runner.
No it's not. You don't know what my car is and is not.
You're Irish aren't you
I have a 2001 car and a 2024 Grom motorcycle. Absolutely no telemetry or such. I'm keeping them for as long as possible.
Slate truck will have no telematics module by default. No phoning home. You can buy one as an option, but I suspect the only people buying slate who want it connected will be businesses
One person's supposed convenience is another person's menace. That said, I'll take any vehicle that contains electronics only for the stereo, the ECU and electronic fuel injection.
How are they doing this? Do they have their own little simcard the Chinese govt pays out the ass for?
From what OP posted of the article why do you think it is Chinese companies doing this when it's clearly american. We live in the shit hole you have been made to believe China is
Y'all do know you're allowed to open and read the article, yeah?
My point was the person I was talking to didn't even need to do that to know this isn't a Chinese problem
The royal we. Those of us that live in the shit hole usa
Not Chinese, but yes, every modern car has a data only cellular connection of some sort. They can easily afford it because they're selling your data to anyone who will buy it.
Fucking hell, I don't even have an electric car but I wanted one. Can we just exist without having it be ruined?
Not only that, they're double dipping! You're paying $30/month for bullshit features like remote start or temp controls, meanwhile they also make money on your data!!
confirming my suspicion it was done through the accompanying app