Theres a reason first gen Tacoma's are still over $20k for a decent one. and they usually have over 300k miles. Such a great sized, good driving, easy to work on little pickup. (Minus the stupid frame recall).
Everything made today is shit. So hold on to your 90s cars guys.
If you're fine with a trailer, this would be a viable option. In Europe, almost nobody uses a truck and we still haul a lot of shit around. You'd be surprised what a sedan can pull.
This way you would only have the higher drag when really needing it and the low cost of a smaller car the rest of the time.
Unfortunately in the US almost no small vehicle has rated towing capacity, even when the same vehicles do in Europe. So if you were to tow with a small sedan you're operating outside of what it's rated for in the US. So I'm sure manufacturers would use that to deny warranty coverage, or in the event of a crash I'm sure that could play a factor...
I'm not sure how to read the towing capacity in the USA, since it's documented very differently over here, but it seems they're petty much the same for the bog standard car I've picked (Audi A4). Dragging around 1.5 to 2 tons is probably enough for most people.
Looking at something like a Toyota Corolla (1.8 L hybrid, to compare like powertrains), it gets 1300 kg towing capacity in Europe from what I can find, and in the US it's 0, the manual will say not to tow with it.
I'm sure it varies between manufacturers.
Lots of places like furniture, hardware and gardening stores will also just rent you a trailer. So you can just hook it up and carry your stuff home if you need to. And if you need it more often you can just buy your own trailer, they're not even that expensive.
That cab though lol I legit just want a single cab truck with no gimmicks, but "the market" all trends to "big car with bed" because they can mark up the price.
I've had a 1999 and a 2007 Nissan Frontier. Both "King cab" (meaning only jump seats in the back, not full back seats). The 1999 was perfect. The new Frontiers are like the size of the old Titans, it's ridiculous.
I'm an EV convert. I really like the Rivian pick-up for a lot of things, but the size is just too much (that and the cost). I currently drive a 2017 Kia Soul EV (and I had a Nissan Leaf before that) and it's just great. There are a few times where I wish I still had a truck though. When the Soul winds up becoming my son's car in a few years, I'm hoping that maybe I can swing getting a Slate. I also live in Hawai'i and kei trucks/vans are very popular here. Smaller vehicles with well-thought-out design are the best.
4 cylinder, 7ft bed, single cab with a bench seat. Gets around 20mpg, which honestly isn't too shabby even by new truck standards.
Over the years it's moved a lot of furniture, picked up a lot of bulky lumber and such from the hardware store, picked up a few decent sized loads of firewood, and generally done everything most normal people would need or want a truck for.
The bed is pretty low compared to modern trucks so it's easy to load and unload, back it up to a curb and you can pretty step right off the sidewalk into the bed with the tailgate down
I have complaints about it, but they're nothing most people couldn't live with. It's 0-60 time is probably best stated as "eventually," especially if you're carrying anything significant in the bed. And with no weight over those rear wheels it's kind of shitty to drive on anything besides dry paved roads so 4wd would be nice. And of course after 30+ years it's got some quirks and little things that are broken.
But if I could buy basically that exact same truck today, maybe as a hybrid or EV, I'd jump on it. I don't need more performance, I'm not going to use it to haul a bed full of gravel or anything, we've never had to tow with it, and when I've towed with my own car it's never been anything more substantial than a teardrop trailer that a Prius could probably just about handle if they came with a tow hitch.
I really like the maverick, it checks a lot of boxes for me and is overall pretty similar in size to my dad's ranger but that short bed annoys me, I can't fit a couch in that.
My brother had a 90s Toyota with a 5 speed and the full 8' I believe. We did small town construction and it was perfect for general lumber/ladders/groceries/etc.
It also had suffered a bad repair job in a backyard shop at some point and would kind of shibby down the road a little sideways. Insanely reliable though.
Much like seeing one of the new post trucks, it’s a fun game to point at “small” trucks and exclaim “look, normal-size truck!” It’s just sad that they’re getting rare enough to point them out.
A hatchback or small SUV with the seats folded down is adequate for that. I fit a full size refrigerator and a 3 seat sofa in my scion xB (no not at the same time).
Got a prius now and fit two IKEA mattresses and bedframes no problem.
Plus you don't need to worry about people just deciding to grab shit since it's enclosed.
As messed up as it sounds, after our last move the company bringing our stuff didn't bring a small truck and their big one couldn't make it up our steep driveway. In steps my wife with her Scion xD, the baby sister of your xB, and managed to drive everything up hanging out the back (many many trips, no fridge though).
Trucks started getting giant in 1991. The f350 was different than the f250 in one primary way, it was lifted 3 inches on blocks. The f series drove the height gain in trucks. The next super duty generation had like a 5 foot tall grill in 1998. And it was all uphill for truck sizing from there.
GM stayed smaller till ~2008. My 2001 3/4 chevy roofline is the same height as a new f150 hood. Its nuts.
That's because Ford neglected their products, choosing instead to invest in higher margin trucks. Everytime they came out with a successful car, they waited until obsolesce before producing a proper replacement.
P much same. Have a crossover bc poor and that was the only used car in my area that was clean title, under 200k miles and not a shitty American-made brand, but it averages 32 mpg and I’m wanting my next vehicle to be a hybrid at minimum.
Seeing pristine baby coddling pickups pisses me off every time.
Am not US but otherwise felt the same, for a long time.
Now recently road conditions have been deteriorating quite badly where I live. With potholes everywhere, sedans and other small cars with delicate suspensions just get damaged all the time by the road. This, along with heavy snow and slush in the winter, has caused me to rethink my stance.
I actively despise those massive pavement princesses and lose respect for any person who has one. They’re a must-have in the “macho insecure man-child” starter pack.
Trucks are demonstrably more dangerous than other vehicles on the road.
My unpopular opinion is that truck drivers should pay a higher penalty when they're involved in accidents. Every moving violation in a truck gets bumped up, one degree, from civil to misdemeanor, from misdemeanor to felony. By driving a pickup truck you are choosing to endanger other drivers on the road.
I agree. Funny enough, when the taller vehicles were first becoming popular, "I can see everything" was popular. Well, if your visibility is improved, you should be penalized more for being at fault.
Even more so with all these driving assistant systems, if you rely too heavily on them (thinking OK to text and drive), that's on you for still causing an accident. Those systems are to aid alert drivers, not replace them.
Not arguing, but my understanding is the main problem with driver assist systems is that people don't meaningfully understand their limitations and assume they will do more than they are capable of. Think highway lane assist being treated as a self driving system, for example, or the woman who jumped in front of her tesla her toddler was driving because she thought it would stop if there was a person in front of it.
Since the expectations are so wildly different between vehicles, and none of it is covered in drivers ed or road tests, it's bound to happen more.
Then even more so, it falls on the salesperson to help educate customers (could be new or used), and the new owner to test or confirm features, safely.
As a car salesperson years ago, I knew the brands I sold, the competition, and features including trim packages, etc, of all major competitors. While yes there is more tech involved, there's no excuse for ignorance.
Self driving above level and 0 below level 4 should be banned. Levels one and two do involve the driver more but people just can't be trusted to understand them. Level three is just downright dangerous. With nothing apparent to do people cannot be trusted to pay attention effectively even if they are trying. Google's self driving program started with level three self driving and promptly abandonded it when they found employees weren't paying attention to the road.
They’re also not performance vehicles, but everyone tries to drive them like they are and none of them care to give you any indication of what they are intending to do.
What i find most interesting is that the modern style truck that people are buying are actually so awful to use for real work. The increased bed height makes it harder to hand load to the point that they added integrated stairs in the door which doesnt help at all because youre still climbing wasting energy. When getting tools out of the back seat if your not 7 feet tall you cant reach in without physically climbing in. They kinda just suck in comparison to the old. When i see trucks like the one below i genuinely think that person is using it as intended probably likes that model more than something theyd buy new. My brain cant help but comment "thats a real truck with a real contributer to society inside"
Especially in the south, but not limited to, you see a lot of new Z71's and Raptors with lift kits, brush guards, spray in bed liners and diamond plated bed boxes in office parking lots, all with pristine trailer hitches.
And they're expensive status symbols at that. I don't own a pickup anymore but I've had a few and the total cost of ownership is quite a bit higher than for a relatively nice but economical passenger car.
It is. Gavril is a made up brand from a game called beam ng. The game is basically car physics with some game attached and gavril are the trucks similar to an s10 up to a gm 3500.
Make it illegal to build vehicles that aren't crash compatible with average sized sedans and coupes, get rid of the light truck exemption that allows regular people to drive work vehicles (pickups trucks) on public roads without a truck driver's licence or work permit.
Problem with the pickup truck thing is that you would also nuke those of us driving older trucks like my 01 Tacoma, my fucking hood is shorter than the back bumper of some modern pickups. Mind you that could be corrected with height and tonnage specifications.
Yeah I feel like if it is crash compatible there's no problem. You could also let current truck owners be grandfathered in and have no new trucks sold to the general public.
There's really a ton of options other than just letting people get bigger and bigger trucks that really just kill more people.
One of my primary use cases for even owning a truck would be an 8ft long bed single cab so I could drive to the hardware store and pick up sheets of drywall, plywood, or lumber.
You really think I need a commercial driver license or whatever a work permit is to do that?
Absolutely. Extremely few people need a truck that size full time. I was a cabinetmaker for years and I actually needed a truck so rarely that I saved a ton of money just renting one every few weeks and had the option to get a van (which is what most people really want anyway) if I needed one too. Most proper home renovations require a permit so you could tie that to it. I actually had a lot of options for free lumber and sheet stock delivery which is a huge time and money saver even it in the boonies where I lived and of course to my shop in the city. Most people really don't need a truck, they just don't take advantage of the services offered to them.
Size? Vans are often less vanity sized, bumper height wise. But that's not really what I meant. When I want a vehicle that can store a bunch of stuff, sheltered from the elements and thieves, like materials or tools overnight, a van comes ready for that, stock. I don't need to add a whole shell or a flimsy cover, they're just good. And I can stick lumber all the way to the front of my passenger seat and not have to have it sticking out of the back. Vans are just superior in most transportation cases.
Any home owner should own a truck. I don't, but I'll say that my Subaru identifies as a truck (regularly haul trash in it, have used it to move bucked up logs about riding on the bump stops) but I have on a couple occasions had to borrow friends trucks. If I didn't have friends with trucks, id probably have to get rid of my jeep and replace it with a shitty lil ranger or s10 or something of the sort.
Which makes you a gay commie if you ride on one of those electric trams. Makes a man want to just.. curl up and die.. maybe curl up in a comfortable place, next to his extremely straight friend. Maybe he wraps his arms around you, not too tight, just enough. Maybe he leans in and whispers in your ear, that it's going to be ok. Your nice and safe in your extremely straight friend's large, muscular arms. The tender kiss is a surprise, but a welcome one. It takes you away to a land without worry. Where the only two people that exist are you, enveloped in his embrace. Just thinking about the electric tram makes you so angry, and his loving arms wipe it away as they tear away your clothes in an extremely straight and macho way. There's nothing gay about a little blowjob, you tell yourself, as you ta-
I had a girlfriend and we got along well. She was really into cars, but it's not something that really comes up often, so it's kinda just whatever. Out of the blue she told me that whenever she parks next to an ev and the owner is there too, she revs up the engine really high, so they know what's up.
I looked at her for a long time and legitimately didn't know what to say, and all i could think off was: "but why?"
And she said something like: "so they know what they are missing out" i told her that they either think you are mentally unwell or can't drive a car.
And people pay 80k plus for those. It's ridiculous. I can't imagine just throwing away thousands a year on gas, maintenance, insurance, truck nuts etc. all while renting an apartment.
In the US, trucks got so big because of poorly-thought-out EPA regulations that mandated specific gas mileage based on hood height rather than tonnage. In order to be subjected to the lower, more achievable targets, the hood height has to be above a certain number or else the truck can't be sold.
Changing that kind of thing is easy to spin negatively for political opponents. If a politician you don't like were to propose changes to the fuel efficiency requirements as they relate to vehicle footprint, would you give them the benefit of the doubt to assume that it would be for the better?
No kidding, not to mention the footprint regulations forcing all cars to get bigger. Can't even sell an ICE smart car in the USA anymore because it's not efficient enough for its footprint! Old Subaru gc8 is a small car and would require 75+ mpg to be sold under current regulations, so we just have bigger Subarus to increase footprint and get them back under regulation. Manufacturers love regulations because more regs = higher price = more profit per vehicle sold. Ever wonder why screens used to be illegal in cars, but now anything under 10k lbs is legally required to have a TV screen and back up camera?
I'm not sure about the hood height part, but CAFE (US fuel economy standards) loosen the MPG requirements as vehicles get larger. The curve is poorly made and it is simply easier to increase the size of the vehicle and hit the looser fuel economy requirements. The regulation with the goal to increase fuel economy...encourages larger vehicles with worse fuel economy.
That is not the primary issue. If it would be tonnage the incentive would be also perverse and dangerous for everyone. The emission targets are absolutely achievable, the industry does not want to achieve them or do what is needed to achieve them (lighter, smaller and more efficient vehicles).
The real problem is that authorities allowed the lobbyists to get their way to open an aicraft carrier large loophole to allow rules for commercial vehicle for purely and exclusively private vehicles, designed and marketed from day one exclusively as such.
I saw this god-tier gif of this trans woman in heels walk around a truck stop butt naked. That's what I want. I don't care if I get chopped up and put into a big boxy piece of shit. I want to be that woman in my dreams.
i drive a small hatchback, and everyone who isn't another small hatchback owner makes passive aggressive commentary about my car. The social pressure to conform and buy a mid-sized or larger SUV/truck is insane, and most folks cave to it. (and now the new thing is 'you have to buy an EV' social pressure).
especially as a well-paid middle aged person, the implication is that I am an economic failure at life, and 'self-respect' demands I drive a large expensive vehicle to display my status. Like I have had many folks lecture me about how at my age/money I need to own a 'nice' car (e.g. 50-60K+ MSRP)
I am in the market for a new car and I am going to get another small hatchback. I have looked at small trucks and other vehicles but the economics don't make any sense. I'd pay a lot more money for no additional benefit.
FWIW my first car was a 10 year old hand me down SUV. And I absolutely hated driving it. It was huge, slow, and got like 8mpg, but my idiot parents insisted I had to drive it because it was 'safe'.
I've had a few hatchbacks and live them, though for now I just have a trunk and two doors on my daily. Thank you for being one of the few people that don't tower over the rest of us on the road!
I have a small hatchback too, and I love the little thing. I need something bigger for work, but if it wasn't for my job I would have zero complaints. My friends hassle me about driving it, but then I mention I fill it up once a week for $30 and they shut up.
Same. For me its also an easy choice. Large vehicles suck ass to drive and are 0 fun. Theyre also much more unsafe for everyone.
Give me a hatch that can zip, stop, and handle great. WAY better.
This comment reads remarkably similar to my own situation and past. Driving an '89 blazer while broke was enough to make me never want to drive anything wasteful of gas again. And yeah the SUV roll factor somehow was ignored by my parents too.
We say that, but if the prices maintain habits will change. After the Iraq invasion in 2003, I saw people buy more and more smaller city cars over the next half a dozen years (at least in Canada).
Even GM, Chrysler and Ford were bringing small cars to the market until 2008-2010.
Once affordability and credit dry up, there'll be demand for small hybrids, economy cars and electric cars. SUVs and Pickups are just popular because car loans were so cheap. And gas prices have never been as low as the last decade.
Its already happening. 2000 f350 7.3L ZF6 4x4 rust free is worth less than 4k, trying to sell it for a recently widowed person and it sucks. Truck value, especially diesel, is shitting the bed.
Maybe it's because I am in tech, but not a single person in my friends group drives a pickup truck. Even now that I've moved to Wyoming, there are no truck owners. To be fair, pickups suck in our weather. A lot of Subaru and vans though.
I guess what I am saying is that maybe gas guzzling pickups aren't an American thing as much as they are a specific type of American thing.
They're popular with a certain personality. White males who need to demonstrate their mannitude. Hell of a lot of money to pay for performative machismo.
Just tell those "personalities" that you can afford driving a small car, because you don't need your car for compensating something. They'll know what.
I also work in tech (shocking, I know). Pretty sure the only truck drivers in my org are a few men in the c-suite and one dude who has a small daily driver Ridgeline haha.
I have a feeling a lot of the truck owners are regretting their life choices right now with the gas situation. Hopefully that also influences their voting decisions...
The older I get, the less and less heed I pay to supply and demand Econ101. I don't think it's a coincidence that Americans "choose" the most profitable kind of vehicles.
If I could teach everyone on Earth one thing, it would be how to read a supply and demand diagram. So much is wasted because we as a people don't understand elasticity and surplus.
Supply and demand is correct in isolation. But so is advertising, they have spent decades learning human psychology to make people want certain things, hence creating demand for things that they want to sell. And they have also learned to create scarcity to Jack up prices.
When the planet gets too hot for us to go outside, our dependence on motor vehicles will deepen that much more. But we'll need ways to interact with the world safely, so engineers will find ways to redesign cars and trucks into relatively almost affordable wheeled mecha. These Mechars will still put us into a lifetime of debt, but that's okay because the way people use their cars is already like a minihome, and so the mechars will continue that trend of essentially being our homes on wheels, complete with mortgage. We won't need houses, which is great cause they'll be demolished to make room for the charging stations for these mechars.
I can't get the imagery of countless mecha stuck in rush hour traffic out of my head.
I’ve always said they try to compensate for something because I can’t for the life of me understand why’d you’d need a massive pickup truck and you live in the suburbs
I do actually want a truck. I like to thrift shop and do home projects. being able to move furniture and construction materials would be nice. Too bad they're stupid big, full of tech garbage, and 30K. I just want a little ford ranger or something. There's no reason it should cost as much as it does when the only people using it are tradesmen and posers. A truck is meant to be the work horse of vehicles. Somehow they convinced enough people to pay a premium price for a thing that has near no versatility.
Why not a Peugeot Partner or VW Caddy or something in that class? Or if you need bigger a Ford Transit?
Or a good old Passat, Volvo V70 or Škoda Octavia.
I have a lot of hope for the Slate. I'm worried about a dozen different things happening to it as a new company. I wish I could see their financials but it's a catch-22. If I can see their sales numbers it's more likely some big shitty company tries to hostile take over them (because they'd be publicly traded.) Getting one would be cool. Getting one and then having the company shutter (or get eaten by Amazon), not so much.
Maybe I'm an outlier, but I bought a used 2011 Tundra with 230k miles on it for $7k. It's the base model, bone stock except for replacing the broken radio and I use it to tow the RV I live in and transport my ebike that's the size of a moped or small motorcycle.
I'm also non-binary and stuck some cutesy cat stickers on my back window. 😂 The idea of spending over $50k on a truck is just insane. I found the original dealer window sticker in the glove box and mine sold for $21k new in 2011.
I live in Texas and pass these huge lifted trucks with the super wide-set tires and always wonder how they can even load anything into the bed. And if MY truck gets 17-18mpg on a good day, what is THEIR monstrosity getting? 😭
An Eos has a 1,500kg rated towing capacity. How big was the caravan? Seems kind of dangerous, but I've definitely seen people with worse towing setups. 😂
My RV is 8,000 pounds dry (3,600kg). I wanted a smaller truck for better gas mileage, but I wouldn't have been able to tow with it, as they were mostly rated at about 5,500 pounds (2,500kg).
The thing with the Ridgeline is that it is a mid size truck that is still unibody with a max tow capacity of 5000lbs. The smaller, cheaper Hyundai Santa Cruz also has a tow capacity of 5000lbs. That's why I went with the Santa Cruz. I do wish it had a foot more of bed length.
I haven’t done a ton of research into trucks, but if I were to get one I’d want something with at least 3k towing and electrified. I’m never going to buy an internal combustion engine vehicle again.
Unfortunately right now the only real electrified options are all huge. You might be able to settle for hybrid and use the Ford Maverick? I don't know, but my guess is it isn't rated to tow 3000lbs though. My dream truck, if I could afford it, would be a Rivian R1T. They're big, but they're electric and imo cool. The optional built in camp kitchen would be so cool.
For the Maverick? Last time I looked only models with the specific tow package could do 4000lbs and the hybrid couldn't get that package. That was also a reason I went with the Santa Cruz. That may have changed (I doubt it) and I don't remember what the lighter numbers were. I was specially looking for the most capacity for the buck back then. Well without going with a huge, used gas guzzler.
It's not tiny, no, but it's hardly a monster truck. Personally I prefer a hatchback, too, but I don't think he's fucking nuts for calling it reasonably sized.
But I'm from the south and everything looks reasonably sized when you see fucking Chevy Tahoes and F350s all day so maybe my fuckin brain is just fried.
F350s and F150s are too tall to fit in a lot of car parks in my country. That kind of vehicle essentially does not exist here, and I do think it skews the brain. But also, trucks and SUVs are different segments. A Rivian also isn't a van or HGV, but that doesn't make it "reasonably sized". The brainrot here is the idea that a pick-up or an SUV is a normal car for normal people rather than a speciality care for niche uses.
Why does a normal family need the high ground-clearance of an SUV? Why do they need four-wheel-drive? Why do they need the enormous cargo space? Not that no normal family needs one or more of those features, but the point - belaboured to death by now - is that most SUV owners don't really need them even every year, never mind every week.
So yeah I think there is some brain-fry in those who find that reasonable.
Drive slower when it's icy (or not at all). 4WD won't help you in the most important situation on ice: braking. What will help are studded tyres.
You can fit two large instruments in a station wagon. You can fit two medium instruments in basically any car.
But I think you missed the point of my questions. What proportion of SUV owners actually need all those features? Are they worth it for the increased axle weight, emissions, and pedestrian deadliness? Obviously few, and obviously not.
I find myself right between "you suck because you drive a truck" and "you suck because you don't drive a real truck"
I have a Honda Ridgeline. It's the smallest thing I've driven that I am comfortable in. We also have a Honda Civic, which is fun to drive for short trips but being wedged inside it gets painful for me.
We're probably going to get rid of the Civic. We had it mostly for the kids to drive, but they are all grown up and have their own cars now, so we can't justify the expense of keeping it around for no one to drive (my wife doesn't drive anymore for medical reasons).
When my previous Ridgeline was totaled (stopped for a school bus dropping off kids - the guy behind me didn't), I ended up driving the Civic for a couple months. It was unpleasant driving in Philadelphia.
It's nothing new. I drove a VW rabbit in Philly in the early 90's when I was in college, and noticed how everyone just drove like you didn't matter. When the VW was being worked on, I borrowed my dad's suburban, and all the other drivers suddenly became polite. When everyone drives like a bully, I understand the desire to go bigger.
I have a diesel truck which currently costs EIGHT dollars a gallon to fill up in California right now, and I use my truck for the following every day for the past six years:
I literally live in it.
No rent, no mortgage, no property taxes, no utilities payments because all my electricity comes from my roof solar panels, I can live anywhere I want, usually the ocean, sometimes Colorado mountains, sometimes Arizona desert which is lovely in the winter. All it costs is the same amount everyone else is paying for their own vehicle maintenance. Except it's the only expense I have ❤️
Doesn't that lifestyle become lonely after a while? I tried some car living for a while (didn't even have curtains, so I 'couldn't throw rocks at others'). I found a nice groove with a gym (went there for showering, then eventually working out as well), but I felt like a pariah in the city. Cops shooed me away twice, which made me feel insecure everywhere.
The answer was hybrids, but that wasn't good enough for the "environmentalists". So battery only power was forced on us before there was even infrastructure developed for it. Now, adoption rates are stagnant and we are creating even more environmental hazards than before.
And the US is seeing growth in the last few months spurned by gas costs, after a year and a half of dumbfuck trump dismantling all the work that had been put into making EVs accessible.
But it doesn't really matter, EV sales are huge everywhere else, we'll catch up one day. I am excited for domestic projects like Slate and Telo.
Good luck at the gas pump!
we are creating even more environmental hazards than before.
It's hard to find small cars in the us these days and if you do they are always clapped out shitboxes. Therefore your options are truck, suv, or a crossover.
corolla, mazda3, civic, elantra are all great cars and not shitboxes. what are you talking about?
it's your mentality that drives people to drive huge cars they don't need. a base level small car is 25K and you can lux them up to be luxury cars at around 30K, all without losing the mileage and safety.
I had a mazda 3, you're right it was great but the used market is full of clapped out shit boxes and no one can afford to buy new these days. The people who can afford new cars are buying giant suvs and trucks.
I have no clue what you're talking about or what would illicit an upvote here. There are plenty of small cars here. I have only owned them for 20 years now. I have seen them go from being the standard in cities to being on the downslope but that doesn't mean they don't exist.
Sure, a 93 civic is probably way too hard to come by now, for good reason... Yes it's hard to find affordable and reliable cars compared to a decade ago but that doesn't mean it's the right move to say "fuck it I'll just buy a $37K SUV. It's only double the price and triple the cost of ownership anyway". Economy cars are still a thing and will continue to be as long as enough people don't say "fuck it I'll buy an SUV"
People buy 10 year old compact cars every day. If you want to complain about it being harder I am with you. If you want an excuse for buying a gas guzzler I am very much not.
Issue is those 10 year old compact cars are dissapearing along with parts to keep them going, plus we know the idiotic cash for clunkers destroyed 10s of thousands of useable good cars the poor could have used so the government could force us to buy new so gm wouldn't fail. I'm still mad at that.
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I may be in the minority but I hate trucks. I always will have a smaller sedan. Am US.
I would like a small, pre-2012 truck that is just used for hauling shit I need to the house, like wood, pellets, feed, etc.
What I find are dick-measuring vehicles where you have to lean forward to ensure no pedestrians are in front.
Still searching...
Theres a reason first gen Tacoma's are still over $20k for a decent one. and they usually have over 300k miles. Such a great sized, good driving, easy to work on little pickup. (Minus the stupid frame recall).
Everything made today is shit. So hold on to your 90s cars guys.
This one is 2017, but I really like these. Probably don't come with the driving experience of your dreams, but it's a truck.
If you're fine with a trailer, this would be a viable option. In Europe, almost nobody uses a truck and we still haul a lot of shit around. You'd be surprised what a sedan can pull.
This way you would only have the higher drag when really needing it and the low cost of a smaller car the rest of the time.
Unfortunately in the US almost no small vehicle has rated towing capacity, even when the same vehicles do in Europe. So if you were to tow with a small sedan you're operating outside of what it's rated for in the US. So I'm sure manufacturers would use that to deny warranty coverage, or in the event of a crash I'm sure that could play a factor...
I'm not sure how to read the towing capacity in the USA, since it's documented very differently over here, but it seems they're petty much the same for the bog standard car I've picked (Audi A4). Dragging around 1.5 to 2 tons is probably enough for most people.
Looking at something like a Toyota Corolla (1.8 L hybrid, to compare like powertrains), it gets 1300 kg towing capacity in Europe from what I can find, and in the US it's 0, the manual will say not to tow with it. I'm sure it varies between manufacturers.
That's bitter.
Oh, that's a shame.
Every car in the US has a towing capacity number. Small cars are usually around 1k lbs
Lots of places like furniture, hardware and gardening stores will also just rent you a trailer. So you can just hook it up and carry your stuff home if you need to. And if you need it more often you can just buy your own trailer, they're not even that expensive.
Slate truck. Ford Fathom. Only options I'm aware of in the USA.
Ford maverick, size of the old rangers with 40 mpg
That cab though lol I legit just want a single cab truck with no gimmicks, but "the market" all trends to "big car with bed" because they can mark up the price.
While true, they have a lot of issues and are way too techy, and fwd. Give me the ranger.
The current ranger makes my 85 F160 feel small. Or at least low.
Only available with extended cab and short bed.
I've had a 1999 and a 2007 Nissan Frontier. Both "King cab" (meaning only jump seats in the back, not full back seats). The 1999 was perfect. The new Frontiers are like the size of the old Titans, it's ridiculous.
I'm an EV convert. I really like the Rivian pick-up for a lot of things, but the size is just too much (that and the cost). I currently drive a 2017 Kia Soul EV (and I had a Nissan Leaf before that) and it's just great. There are a few times where I wish I still had a truck though. When the Soul winds up becoming my son's car in a few years, I'm hoping that maybe I can swing getting a Slate. I also live in Hawai'i and kei trucks/vans are very popular here. Smaller vehicles with well-thought-out design are the best.
My dad has a '93 Ford Ranger
4 cylinder, 7ft bed, single cab with a bench seat. Gets around 20mpg, which honestly isn't too shabby even by new truck standards.
Over the years it's moved a lot of furniture, picked up a lot of bulky lumber and such from the hardware store, picked up a few decent sized loads of firewood, and generally done everything most normal people would need or want a truck for.
The bed is pretty low compared to modern trucks so it's easy to load and unload, back it up to a curb and you can pretty step right off the sidewalk into the bed with the tailgate down
I have complaints about it, but they're nothing most people couldn't live with. It's 0-60 time is probably best stated as "eventually," especially if you're carrying anything significant in the bed. And with no weight over those rear wheels it's kind of shitty to drive on anything besides dry paved roads so 4wd would be nice. And of course after 30+ years it's got some quirks and little things that are broken.
But if I could buy basically that exact same truck today, maybe as a hybrid or EV, I'd jump on it. I don't need more performance, I'm not going to use it to haul a bed full of gravel or anything, we've never had to tow with it, and when I've towed with my own car it's never been anything more substantial than a teardrop trailer that a Prius could probably just about handle if they came with a tow hitch.
I really like the maverick, it checks a lot of boxes for me and is overall pretty similar in size to my dad's ranger but that short bed annoys me, I can't fit a couch in that.
My brother had a 90s Toyota with a 5 speed and the full 8' I believe. We did small town construction and it was perfect for general lumber/ladders/groceries/etc.
It also had suffered a bad repair job in a backyard shop at some point and would kind of shibby down the road a little sideways. Insanely reliable though.
I don't remember typing this today 🙃
Edit: read "absolutely 100% the main usecase"
Liked my s10 but that was the biggest complaint that engine belongs in a small car not a truck.
Much like seeing one of the new post trucks, it’s a fun game to point at “small” trucks and exclaim “look, normal-size truck!” It’s just sad that they’re getting rare enough to point them out.
A hatchback or small SUV with the seats folded down is adequate for that. I fit a full size refrigerator and a 3 seat sofa in my scion xB (no not at the same time).
Got a prius now and fit two IKEA mattresses and bedframes no problem.
Plus you don't need to worry about people just deciding to grab shit since it's enclosed.
As messed up as it sounds, after our last move the company bringing our stuff didn't bring a small truck and their big one couldn't make it up our steep driveway. In steps my wife with her Scion xD, the baby sister of your xB, and managed to drive everything up hanging out the back (many many trips, no fridge though).
The Prius' storage is surprisingly well-designed! We borrowed one several years back and I was really impressed with what all it could hold
Trucks started getting giant in 1991. The f350 was different than the f250 in one primary way, it was lifted 3 inches on blocks. The f series drove the height gain in trucks. The next super duty generation had like a 5 foot tall grill in 1998. And it was all uphill for truck sizing from there.
GM stayed smaller till ~2008. My 2001 3/4 chevy roofline is the same height as a new f150 hood. Its nuts.
I don't see how that could be a minority opinion. Don't let the "Americans are bad people" posts get to you.
It’s not getting to me at all. Just saying where I am, majority truck central is a thing.
That's because Ford neglected their products, choosing instead to invest in higher margin trucks. Everytime they came out with a successful car, they waited until obsolesce before producing a proper replacement.
P much same. Have a crossover bc poor and that was the only used car in my area that was clean title, under 200k miles and not a shitty American-made brand, but it averages 32 mpg and I’m wanting my next vehicle to be a hybrid at minimum.
Seeing pristine baby coddling pickups pisses me off every time.
Am not US but otherwise felt the same, for a long time.
Now recently road conditions have been deteriorating quite badly where I live. With potholes everywhere, sedans and other small cars with delicate suspensions just get damaged all the time by the road. This, along with heavy snow and slush in the winter, has caused me to rethink my stance.
Fool! Sedans are the worst form factor vehicle there is. LONG LIVE THE LONG ROOF! Wagons and hatch backs 4 life
i keep a small truck around so i can take garbage off without having to smell it, or pick up some mulch for my not-lawn
I actively despise those massive pavement princesses and lose respect for any person who has one. They’re a must-have in the “macho insecure man-child” starter pack.
Externalizing their “alpha” BS.
Trucks are demonstrably more dangerous than other vehicles on the road.
My unpopular opinion is that truck drivers should pay a higher penalty when they're involved in accidents. Every moving violation in a truck gets bumped up, one degree, from civil to misdemeanor, from misdemeanor to felony. By driving a pickup truck you are choosing to endanger other drivers on the road.
I agree. Funny enough, when the taller vehicles were first becoming popular, "I can see everything" was popular. Well, if your visibility is improved, you should be penalized more for being at fault.
Even more so with all these driving assistant systems, if you rely too heavily on them (thinking OK to text and drive), that's on you for still causing an accident. Those systems are to aid alert drivers, not replace them.
Not arguing, but my understanding is the main problem with driver assist systems is that people don't meaningfully understand their limitations and assume they will do more than they are capable of. Think highway lane assist being treated as a self driving system, for example, or the woman who jumped in front of her tesla her toddler was driving because she thought it would stop if there was a person in front of it.
Since the expectations are so wildly different between vehicles, and none of it is covered in drivers ed or road tests, it's bound to happen more.
Then even more so, it falls on the salesperson to help educate customers (could be new or used), and the new owner to test or confirm features, safely.
As a car salesperson years ago, I knew the brands I sold, the competition, and features including trim packages, etc, of all major competitors. While yes there is more tech involved, there's no excuse for ignorance.
Self driving above level and 0 below level 4 should be banned. Levels one and two do involve the driver more but people just can't be trusted to understand them. Level three is just downright dangerous. With nothing apparent to do people cannot be trusted to pay attention effectively even if they are trying. Google's self driving program started with level three self driving and promptly abandonded it when they found employees weren't paying attention to the road.
They’re also not performance vehicles, but everyone tries to drive them like they are and none of them care to give you any indication of what they are intending to do.
What i find most interesting is that the modern style truck that people are buying are actually so awful to use for real work. The increased bed height makes it harder to hand load to the point that they added integrated stairs in the door which doesnt help at all because youre still climbing wasting energy. When getting tools out of the back seat if your not 7 feet tall you cant reach in without physically climbing in. They kinda just suck in comparison to the old. When i see trucks like the one below i genuinely think that person is using it as intended probably likes that model more than something theyd buy new. My brain cant help but comment "thats a real truck with a real contributer to society inside"
style
nobody is using them for real work. they are status symbols.
they make fleet/commercial vehicles for real work.
Especially in the south, but not limited to, you see a lot of new Z71's and Raptors with lift kits, brush guards, spray in bed liners and diamond plated bed boxes in office parking lots, all with pristine trailer hitches.
pavement princess compensation carriers
People who modify their Raptors, generally are only making them less capable.
And they're expensive status symbols at that. I don't own a pickup anymore but I've had a few and the total cost of ownership is quite a bit higher than for a relatively nice but economical passenger car.
That's a feature!
Modern trucks are just emotional support vehicles for the egoistically challenged.
Gavril D-Series. 🤤
I'm pretty sure that's a gmt400, haven't heard of a gavril before!
It is. Gavril is a made up brand from a game called beam ng. The game is basically car physics with some game attached and gavril are the trucks similar to an s10 up to a gm 3500.
I've wasted way too much time on that thing. I'm not sorry, had fun. More of a brucknell legrand wagon man myself.
The Legran is a great car. I love its frumpiness. XD
Even that truck is on the bigger size. Looks like it was even lifted.
GMT 400s and 800s are the most goated pickup trucks off all time. Besides the pre-Duramax diesels. Those were garbage.
Not a silver bullet but we seriously need to reform the CAFE standards that reward automakers for producing vehicles with larger footprints.
Trump just lowered the standards lol
As he promised he would do. Didn't he campaign on completely getting rid of the epa?
Make it illegal to build vehicles that aren't crash compatible with average sized sedans and coupes, get rid of the light truck exemption that allows regular people to drive work vehicles (pickups trucks) on public roads without a truck driver's licence or work permit.
Problem with the pickup truck thing is that you would also nuke those of us driving older trucks like my 01 Tacoma, my fucking hood is shorter than the back bumper of some modern pickups. Mind you that could be corrected with height and tonnage specifications.
Yeah I feel like if it is crash compatible there's no problem. You could also let current truck owners be grandfathered in and have no new trucks sold to the general public.
There's really a ton of options other than just letting people get bigger and bigger trucks that really just kill more people.
One of my primary use cases for even owning a truck would be an 8ft long bed single cab so I could drive to the hardware store and pick up sheets of drywall, plywood, or lumber.
You really think I need a commercial driver license or whatever a work permit is to do that?
Absolutely. Extremely few people need a truck that size full time. I was a cabinetmaker for years and I actually needed a truck so rarely that I saved a ton of money just renting one every few weeks and had the option to get a van (which is what most people really want anyway) if I needed one too. Most proper home renovations require a permit so you could tie that to it. I actually had a lot of options for free lumber and sheet stock delivery which is a huge time and money saver even it in the boonies where I lived and of course to my shop in the city. Most people really don't need a truck, they just don't take advantage of the services offered to them.
I don’t really understand the difference between the size of an F150 or a Sprinter van for example in your proposed policy.
No hard feelings either way. I don’t own a truck and order material from Lowe’s or Home Depot for that very reason.
Size? Vans are often less vanity sized, bumper height wise. But that's not really what I meant. When I want a vehicle that can store a bunch of stuff, sheltered from the elements and thieves, like materials or tools overnight, a van comes ready for that, stock. I don't need to add a whole shell or a flimsy cover, they're just good. And I can stick lumber all the way to the front of my passenger seat and not have to have it sticking out of the back. Vans are just superior in most transportation cases.
Your original reply proposed driving pickup trucks should require a CDL or some kind of building permit to operate. Should the same apply to vans?
Any home owner should own a truck. I don't, but I'll say that my Subaru identifies as a truck (regularly haul trash in it, have used it to move bucked up logs about riding on the bump stops) but I have on a couple occasions had to borrow friends trucks. If I didn't have friends with trucks, id probably have to get rid of my jeep and replace it with a shitty lil ranger or s10 or something of the sort.
Subaru outback with a tow hitch. This is the way...
Public transport is for commies, and electric vehicles are gay.
Which makes you a gay commie if you ride on one of those electric trams. Makes a man want to just.. curl up and die.. maybe curl up in a comfortable place, next to his extremely straight friend. Maybe he wraps his arms around you, not too tight, just enough. Maybe he leans in and whispers in your ear, that it's going to be ok. Your nice and safe in your extremely straight friend's large, muscular arms. The tender kiss is a surprise, but a welcome one. It takes you away to a land without worry. Where the only two people that exist are you, enveloped in his embrace. Just thinking about the electric tram makes you so angry, and his loving arms wipe it away as they tear away your clothes in an extremely straight and macho way. There's nothing gay about a little blowjob, you tell yourself, as you ta-
I'm sorry were we talking about robot Teslas?
Now you make me want to go to ride electric tram.
I had a girlfriend and we got along well. She was really into cars, but it's not something that really comes up often, so it's kinda just whatever. Out of the blue she told me that whenever she parks next to an ev and the owner is there too, she revs up the engine really high, so they know what's up.
I looked at her for a long time and legitimately didn't know what to say, and all i could think off was: "but why?" And she said something like: "so they know what they are missing out" i told her that they either think you are mentally unwell or can't drive a car.
I totally agree with the "but why?" sentiment. One of the reasons I got an EV is precisely to avoid the engine sound.
Even if you're into loud cars, a 4 cylinder turbo engine hitting something like 6k rpm is nothing impressive...
Gay as a fox!
And people pay 80k plus for those. It's ridiculous. I can't imagine just throwing away thousands a year on gas, maintenance, insurance, truck nuts etc. all while renting an apartment.
In the US, trucks got so big because of poorly-thought-out EPA regulations that mandated specific gas mileage based on hood height rather than tonnage. In order to be subjected to the lower, more achievable targets, the hood height has to be above a certain number or else the truck can't be sold.
Too bad they wrote it with the un-erasable ink, otherwise after a few decades someone would've done something to fix it.
Changing that kind of thing is easy to spin negatively for political opponents. If a politician you don't like were to propose changes to the fuel efficiency requirements as they relate to vehicle footprint, would you give them the benefit of the doubt to assume that it would be for the better?
And this is why you can't have nice things
No kidding, not to mention the footprint regulations forcing all cars to get bigger. Can't even sell an ICE smart car in the USA anymore because it's not efficient enough for its footprint! Old Subaru gc8 is a small car and would require 75+ mpg to be sold under current regulations, so we just have bigger Subarus to increase footprint and get them back under regulation. Manufacturers love regulations because more regs = higher price = more profit per vehicle sold. Ever wonder why screens used to be illegal in cars, but now anything under 10k lbs is legally required to have a TV screen and back up camera?
Would
Can you share a source for the hood height regulations? Never heard anything like that before.
I'm not sure about the hood height part, but CAFE (US fuel economy standards) loosen the MPG requirements as vehicles get larger. The curve is poorly made and it is simply easier to increase the size of the vehicle and hit the looser fuel economy requirements. The regulation with the goal to increase fuel economy...encourages larger vehicles with worse fuel economy.
Video about it
That is not the primary issue. If it would be tonnage the incentive would be also perverse and dangerous for everyone. The emission targets are absolutely achievable, the industry does not want to achieve them or do what is needed to achieve them (lighter, smaller and more efficient vehicles).
The real problem is that authorities allowed the lobbyists to get their way to open an aicraft carrier large loophole to allow rules for commercial vehicle for purely and exclusively private vehicles, designed and marketed from day one exclusively as such.
I just want an electric 90s S-10/Ranger. Someone, just make that truck. I'm begging you. I'm so tired of these big boxy pieces of shit.
I want an electric minivan for under $50k is that too much to ask
They could probably out it on the same chassis as my thing.
Slate.auto
Still a short bed
I saw this god-tier gif of this trans woman in heels walk around a truck stop butt naked. That's what I want. I don't care if I get chopped up and put into a big boxy piece of shit. I want to be that woman in my dreams.
marketing works.
i drive a small hatchback, and everyone who isn't another small hatchback owner makes passive aggressive commentary about my car. The social pressure to conform and buy a mid-sized or larger SUV/truck is insane, and most folks cave to it. (and now the new thing is 'you have to buy an EV' social pressure).
especially as a well-paid middle aged person, the implication is that I am an economic failure at life, and 'self-respect' demands I drive a large expensive vehicle to display my status. Like I have had many folks lecture me about how at my age/money I need to own a 'nice' car (e.g. 50-60K+ MSRP)
I am in the market for a new car and I am going to get another small hatchback. I have looked at small trucks and other vehicles but the economics don't make any sense. I'd pay a lot more money for no additional benefit.
FWIW my first car was a 10 year old hand me down SUV. And I absolutely hated driving it. It was huge, slow, and got like 8mpg, but my idiot parents insisted I had to drive it because it was 'safe'.
I've had a few hatchbacks and live them, though for now I just have a trunk and two doors on my daily. Thank you for being one of the few people that don't tower over the rest of us on the road!
I have a small hatchback too, and I love the little thing. I need something bigger for work, but if it wasn't for my job I would have zero complaints. My friends hassle me about driving it, but then I mention I fill it up once a week for $30 and they shut up.
Same. For me its also an easy choice. Large vehicles suck ass to drive and are 0 fun. Theyre also much more unsafe for everyone. Give me a hatch that can zip, stop, and handle great. WAY better.
This comment reads remarkably similar to my own situation and past. Driving an '89 blazer while broke was enough to make me never want to drive anything wasteful of gas again. And yeah the SUV roll factor somehow was ignored by my parents too.
We say that, but if the prices maintain habits will change. After the Iraq invasion in 2003, I saw people buy more and more smaller city cars over the next half a dozen years (at least in Canada).
Even GM, Chrysler and Ford were bringing small cars to the market until 2008-2010.
Once affordability and credit dry up, there'll be demand for small hybrids, economy cars and electric cars. SUVs and Pickups are just popular because car loans were so cheap. And gas prices have never been as low as the last decade.
Its already happening. 2000 f350 7.3L ZF6 4x4 rust free is worth less than 4k, trying to sell it for a recently widowed person and it sucks. Truck value, especially diesel, is shitting the bed.
The beauty of consumerism, every possession immediately changes to adapt to the times
Maybe it's because I am in tech, but not a single person in my friends group drives a pickup truck. Even now that I've moved to Wyoming, there are no truck owners. To be fair, pickups suck in our weather. A lot of Subaru and vans though.
I guess what I am saying is that maybe gas guzzling pickups aren't an American thing as much as they are a specific type of American thing.
They're popular with a certain personality. White males who need to demonstrate their mannitude. Hell of a lot of money to pay for performative machismo.
It's blue collar cosplay. They want to be seen as a "working man." Ironically I think most actual working vehicles have switched over to vans.
Just tell those "personalities" that you can afford driving a small car, because you don't need your car for compensating something. They'll know what.
Shh, American bad!
I also work in tech (shocking, I know). Pretty sure the only truck drivers in my org are a few men in the c-suite and one dude who has a small daily driver Ridgeline haha.
I have a feeling a lot of the truck owners are regretting their life choices right now with the gas situation. Hopefully that also influences their voting decisions...
The older I get, the less and less heed I pay to supply and demand Econ101. I don't think it's a coincidence that Americans "choose" the most profitable kind of vehicles.
Supply and demand is a framework, not a model. It doesn't say anything.
Apparently the entire internet failed to learn Econ101.
If I could teach everyone on Earth one thing, it would be how to read a supply and demand diagram. So much is wasted because we as a people don't understand elasticity and surplus.
Supply and demand is correct in isolation. But so is advertising, they have spent decades learning human psychology to make people want certain things, hence creating demand for things that they want to sell. And they have also learned to create scarcity to Jack up prices.
When the planet gets too hot for us to go outside, our dependence on motor vehicles will deepen that much more. But we'll need ways to interact with the world safely, so engineers will find ways to redesign cars and trucks into relatively almost affordable wheeled mecha. These Mechars will still put us into a lifetime of debt, but that's okay because the way people use their cars is already like a minihome, and so the mechars will continue that trend of essentially being our homes on wheels, complete with mortgage. We won't need houses, which is great cause they'll be demolished to make room for the charging stations for these mechars.
I can't get the imagery of countless mecha stuck in rush hour traffic out of my head.
this should be an anime. the image of mecha traffic jams especially.
I’ve always said they try to compensate for something because I can’t for the life of me understand why’d you’d need a massive pickup truck and you live in the suburbs
For the 2027 model year, GM/Chevrolet are bringing back the
350408! 6.7L of V8 power, up from a measly 6.2L!350ci is 5.7l
I do actually want a truck. I like to thrift shop and do home projects. being able to move furniture and construction materials would be nice. Too bad they're stupid big, full of tech garbage, and 30K. I just want a little ford ranger or something. There's no reason it should cost as much as it does when the only people using it are tradesmen and posers. A truck is meant to be the work horse of vehicles. Somehow they convinced enough people to pay a premium price for a thing that has near no versatility.
The trucks useful for actual hauling are nothing like these awful pavement princesses. They're smaller, lower, with a small cabin and bigger flatbed.
Unfortunately they are much less common nowadays. Wonder why that is.
Why not buy a used one?
Why not a Peugeot Partner or VW Caddy or something in that class? Or if you need bigger a Ford Transit? Or a good old Passat, Volvo V70 or Škoda Octavia.
The upcoming Slate could be what you want.
I have a lot of hope for the Slate. I'm worried about a dozen different things happening to it as a new company. I wish I could see their financials but it's a catch-22. If I can see their sales numbers it's more likely some big shitty company tries to hostile take over them (because they'd be publicly traded.) Getting one would be cool. Getting one and then having the company shutter (or get eaten by Amazon), not so much.
Maybe I'm an outlier, but I bought a used 2011 Tundra with 230k miles on it for $7k. It's the base model, bone stock except for replacing the broken radio and I use it to tow the RV I live in and transport my ebike that's the size of a moped or small motorcycle.
I'm also non-binary and stuck some cutesy cat stickers on my back window. 😂 The idea of spending over $50k on a truck is just insane. I found the original dealer window sticker in the glove box and mine sold for $21k new in 2011.
I live in Texas and pass these huge lifted trucks with the super wide-set tires and always wonder how they can even load anything into the bed. And if MY truck gets 17-18mpg on a good day, what is THEIR monstrosity getting? 😭
I just looked up the Toyota Tundra and it's still a large truck.
Funny sidenote, this week I saw a VW Eos pulling a caravan.
An Eos has a 1,500kg rated towing capacity. How big was the caravan? Seems kind of dangerous, but I've definitely seen people with worse towing setups. 😂
My RV is 8,000 pounds dry (3,600kg). I wanted a smaller truck for better gas mileage, but I wouldn't have been able to tow with it, as they were mostly rated at about 5,500 pounds (2,500kg).
They're rated differently here in Germany.
I regularly see setups like this here
But I truly appreciate you converting your measurements
Here's a recent picture of mine on moving day. The RV is 30ft long (9m), with dual axles.
Prius go wooooosh
As an American, I cannot confirm this.
This big trucks are basically just worse minivans for the most part anyway.
No third row seating option, similar cargo capacity, and significantly worse gas mileage.
Obviously you can tow stuff. But outside of that? Meh. I’d rather have a small truck like a Ridgeline if I were to get one at all.
The thing with the Ridgeline is that it is a mid size truck that is still unibody with a max tow capacity of 5000lbs. The smaller, cheaper Hyundai Santa Cruz also has a tow capacity of 5000lbs. That's why I went with the Santa Cruz. I do wish it had a foot more of bed length.
I haven’t done a ton of research into trucks, but if I were to get one I’d want something with at least 3k towing and electrified. I’m never going to buy an internal combustion engine vehicle again.
Unfortunately right now the only real electrified options are all huge. You might be able to settle for hybrid and use the Ford Maverick? I don't know, but my guess is it isn't rated to tow 3000lbs though. My dream truck, if I could afford it, would be a Rivian R1T. They're big, but they're electric and imo cool. The optional built in camp kitchen would be so cool.
Depends if it's the fwd or awd I think. Heart wants to say the fwd is 2k.
For the Maverick? Last time I looked only models with the specific tow package could do 4000lbs and the hybrid couldn't get that package. That was also a reason I went with the Santa Cruz. That may have changed (I doubt it) and I don't remember what the lighter numbers were. I was specially looking for the most capacity for the buck back then. Well without going with a huge, used gas guzzler.
I believe post 2025 you could get an awd hybrid Maverick with a higher towing capacity.
Neat, it does look like you can get the 4k tow package on the hybrid now. That would have changed my choice back when I was shopping.
Rivians sell pretty well from what I hear.
Wish they'd sell them in Australia.
Rivians are uggo and too big. I'll have a nice, sensible (electric) hatchback or sedan, please.
Shorter in length than any sedan I've owned. 10ish inches wider though.
E.g.?
Currently my 2013 impala is longer than a r2. The 02 and 08 malibus i had were similar in length.
Fair enough. Yeah, the R2 isn't crrrazy long. But it is very tall and quite wide.
Rivian R2 is a reasonable size.
Source: on the waiting list
That thing is still massive 🫠
R3X for you then!
You are fucking nuts
Source
Diagnosis: SUV-brained
It's not tiny, no, but it's hardly a monster truck. Personally I prefer a hatchback, too, but I don't think he's fucking nuts for calling it reasonably sized.
But I'm from the south and everything looks reasonably sized when you see fucking Chevy Tahoes and F350s all day so maybe my fuckin brain is just fried.
F350s and F150s are too tall to fit in a lot of car parks in my country. That kind of vehicle essentially does not exist here, and I do think it skews the brain. But also, trucks and SUVs are different segments. A Rivian also isn't a van or HGV, but that doesn't make it "reasonably sized". The brainrot here is the idea that a pick-up or an SUV is a normal car for normal people rather than a speciality care for niche uses.
Why does a normal family need the high ground-clearance of an SUV? Why do they need four-wheel-drive? Why do they need the enormous cargo space? Not that no normal family needs one or more of those features, but the point - belaboured to death by now - is that most SUV owners don't really need them even every year, never mind every week.
So yeah I think there is some brain-fry in those who find that reasonable.
Shitty roads
Snow and ice
Two kids who play instruments, or semi-frequent long-distance trips.
These are all pretty reasonable requirements for what Americans deal with on the road.
But I think you missed the point of my questions. What proportion of SUV owners actually need all those features? Are they worth it for the increased axle weight, emissions, and pedestrian deadliness? Obviously few, and obviously not.
You do you, boo. I drove it and it was just right for me, even in the streets of downtown Chicago.
You know, when you tuck your balls into themselves, both these faces look like they're from the same person. Like different expressions, or some shit.
So I have mixed feelings, I inherited my dad's big diesel guzzling truck. it's not being driven everyday and I'm not an ass driving it
And they will keep guzzling gas and you'll like it!
I find myself right between "you suck because you drive a truck" and "you suck because you don't drive a real truck"
I have a Honda Ridgeline. It's the smallest thing I've driven that I am comfortable in. We also have a Honda Civic, which is fun to drive for short trips but being wedged inside it gets painful for me.
We're probably going to get rid of the Civic. We had it mostly for the kids to drive, but they are all grown up and have their own cars now, so we can't justify the expense of keeping it around for no one to drive (my wife doesn't drive anymore for medical reasons).
When my previous Ridgeline was totaled (stopped for a school bus dropping off kids - the guy behind me didn't), I ended up driving the Civic for a couple months. It was unpleasant driving in Philadelphia.
It's nothing new. I drove a VW rabbit in Philly in the early 90's when I was in college, and noticed how everyone just drove like you didn't matter. When the VW was being worked on, I borrowed my dad's suburban, and all the other drivers suddenly became polite. When everyone drives like a bully, I understand the desire to go bigger.
I have a truck and I'll mention some uses for it since most people here seem ignorant. I use it for the following multiple times a month.
There's a lot of hate here and it seems misdirected.
Americans really love to act like 99% of those trucks aren't just used to haul someones ass to wallmart for some groceries
was just about to say, it can be cost effective if it makes sense for what you're using it for then it's not a bad investment.
I have a diesel truck which currently costs EIGHT dollars a gallon to fill up in California right now, and I use my truck for the following every day for the past six years:
I literally live in it.
No rent, no mortgage, no property taxes, no utilities payments because all my electricity comes from my roof solar panels, I can live anywhere I want, usually the ocean, sometimes Colorado mountains, sometimes Arizona desert which is lovely in the winter. All it costs is the same amount everyone else is paying for their own vehicle maintenance. Except it's the only expense I have ❤️
Doesn't that lifestyle become lonely after a while? I tried some car living for a while (didn't even have curtains, so I 'couldn't throw rocks at others'). I found a nice groove with a gym (went there for showering, then eventually working out as well), but I felt like a pariah in the city. Cops shooed me away twice, which made me feel insecure everywhere.
It's about saving money & enjoying freedom. Loneliness happens even when people live in apartments, houses, & mansions.
The answer was hybrids, but that wasn't good enough for the "environmentalists". So battery only power was forced on us before there was even infrastructure developed for it. Now, adoption rates are stagnant and we are creating even more environmental hazards than before.
We did it y'all!!
only in the US.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2026/sep/30/australia-electric-cars-vehichles-ev-sales-double
https://evsmarts.com/global-ev-sales-keep-climbing-as-the-u-s-electric-vehicle-market-loses-momentum/
https://electrek.co/guides/ev-sales/
And the US is seeing growth in the last few months spurned by gas costs, after a year and a half of dumbfuck trump dismantling all the work that had been put into making EVs accessible.
But it doesn't really matter, EV sales are huge everywhere else, we'll catch up one day. I am excited for domestic projects like Slate and Telo.
Good luck at the gas pump!
lolwat?
What other kind of vehicle can carry 300 pounds of 'murican fat?
What’s that in metric? 600kg?
About 2167 big macs
300? Those are rookie numbers.
It's hard to find small cars in the us these days and if you do they are always clapped out shitboxes. Therefore your options are truck, suv, or a crossover.
corolla, mazda3, civic, elantra are all great cars and not shitboxes. what are you talking about?
it's your mentality that drives people to drive huge cars they don't need. a base level small car is 25K and you can lux them up to be luxury cars at around 30K, all without losing the mileage and safety.
I had a mazda 3, you're right it was great but the used market is full of clapped out shit boxes and no one can afford to buy new these days. The people who can afford new cars are buying giant suvs and trucks.
25K civic is affordable for anyone on a salary 50/60K. The average salary in the USA for a single person is 48K....
yeah, it's true that stupid people buy cars they can't afford, rather than cars they can. the issue is people making 50K are buying cars that are 50K.
fwiw I'm looking for a used car 2-3yr old used in the 25K price range, and there are tons available in my area.
Plenty of sedan and hatchback options on offer from Japanese and European automakers. Some are even built in the US.
I have no clue what you're talking about or what would illicit an upvote here. There are plenty of small cars here. I have only owned them for 20 years now. I have seen them go from being the standard in cities to being on the downslope but that doesn't mean they don't exist.
Wtf is a "clapped out shitbox" anyhow?
Op browsing Craigslist for a 93 civic - in this case they are 100% right ha
Sure, a 93 civic is probably way too hard to come by now, for good reason... Yes it's hard to find affordable and reliable cars compared to a decade ago but that doesn't mean it's the right move to say "fuck it I'll just buy a $37K SUV. It's only double the price and triple the cost of ownership anyway". Economy cars are still a thing and will continue to be as long as enough people don't say "fuck it I'll buy an SUV"
Not possible when mfgs do idiotic shit like ford stopping car production. you can't even get a good car now
The fiesta was awesome. Ford stopped it. Subaru went to all shit cvt transmission. Chevy cars suck. Honda is ok ish.
I just want a manual awd wagon. Turbo optional. Apparently Americans hate wagons and hatches. I'll keep buying used forever I guess.
"harder" !== "Not possible"
People buy 10 year old compact cars every day. If you want to complain about it being harder I am with you. If you want an excuse for buying a gas guzzler I am very much not.
Issue is those 10 year old compact cars are dissapearing along with parts to keep them going, plus we know the idiotic cash for clunkers destroyed 10s of thousands of useable good cars the poor could have used so the government could force us to buy new so gm wouldn't fail. I'm still mad at that.
I would agree there are challenges/problems here. Just not that it's impossible to drive/buy a car