I have had people telling me "you'll regret not having kids when you grow up" all through my 20s, and now that I'm in my 30s I've only had more and more people ask me when my spouse and I will be trying for kids because "it's almost too late"
Since medically transitioning, a disturbing number of people have decided to butt in and tell me I should be storing sperm "for when you decide to have kids" and if I don't, then I won't be physically able to have them.
I've even had a couple of people (mostly one specific person) telling me after I inform them I had a vasectomy over a decade ago and my spouse had a tubal ligation at least 5 years ago, that vasectomies are reversible and "it doesn't have to be your wife" (my spouse is NB but seemingly nobody except the Trans people we know seem to remember that)
I find it funny that people with kids keep telling me specifically that I will regret not having kids and giving me their opinions, yet never once have I gone out telling new partners NOT to have kids.
Also hilarious is how people with kids get defensive about their decision and go on about how people without kids make it their whole personality.
And its always fun to guess if I'll see "well you people are creepy for making this one page I have only just found and decided it's all you ever talk about also here's an anecdote about how much I totally love my kids and never think like this" type comments before opening the page.
And honestly with so many fascist governments pushing us to have more kids for their meat grinders, climate change making the planet hostile for life, and everything being more expensive, it's a wonder anyone would voluntarily have children today.
Sadly, they do not. When you are fully infertile and tell them so, to make them stop bothering you, it comes up, "well, you can always adopt!"
Personally I have never wanted kids, but I could not adopt either, not even be a foster parent. I would never ever be considered fit to adopt kids, with my vast medical history. I imagine these types of people, would make up some other bullshit argument, even if I explained that.
It’s always old people being pushy about it. Even after I tell them I’m not traditional like that. Like I want no kids, no marriage, just a low responsibility lifestyle. Some of em wanna lecture like you need guidance. Or the most offensive is when they respond with pity, like oh you poor thing. So fuckin weird and nosy. Like I would never do the same vice versa, wtf?
Aye, let it be known that Ive been lectured by people YOUNGER than me about why I should have kids... Im only 30 😐 ... Age and identity doesnt determine ignorance.
Very sorry for the fascists and A holes that keep on butting into your lives. 🥺🫂
But I have just gotts ask , where in the world did you meet your partner? Like dating to me feels like a diamond mine to me, I have not found anybody who wants me at all in my 7 years of asking people. But then on top of that dating as a childfree person is like like trying to find anti-matter diamonds in a diamond mine. But then on top of that dating as a childfree person who is accepting of NB gender expressions and sexuality is like trying to find ...uh.... anti-anti-matter diamonds in a mine.
Just tell them you are trying but without success thus this topic is not what you want to discuss. Easier for you. They wont ask this question anymore.
I find it telling that every reason people try to give why "you'll regret having kids" is just selfish.
"Who will take care of YOU when you're older?"
"Don't YOU want people to always be in YOUR life?"
"YOU won't know love until YOU have a child."
"Don't YOU want your bloodline to survive?"
"Don't YOU want purpose in your life?"
Imo bringing another life into this world should be as selfless as possible. Not that you want "an extra pair of hands around the house" or "you want to pass on your genes". But more like "I have the ability to create the most precious thing in this world and I want it to have a life better than my own". You know?
I know this is a childfree community so all of you might dislike this comment, but I saw this post when looking at all posts, so here are my worthless two cents:
I think both desires (wanting kids, not wanting kids) should be considered equally valid, and both should be respected, without people trying to convince you out of your preference.
I agree, and I’ve never met anyone trying to convince me to not have a kid.
We constantly get questioned/pressured/guilted about having kids that we’ve never wanted.
It’s just like religion, nobody is putting up billboards about atheism. It’s always the people in the group foisting their beliefs onto people outside the norm.
The way I see it is that the majority of humans on the planet today do not have adequate access to sex education, voluntary sterilizations, birth controls and voluntary abortions...so if anything the average person is being forced to be ANTI-childfree even if they see childfree peoples as their equals or they themselves are childfree. (I will personally add that if you want to have childrrn? Meh. Have fun to each their own. If you want to be childfree? Depending on which part of the world youre in, good fucking luck lol😒)
I feel like its like being Palestinian. Dude nobody in the world is forcing ANY BODY to be Palestinian . But there are A LOT of celebrities , governments, and companies that would force a person to be ANTI-Palestinian
if anything being Palestinian or pro-Palestinian means thst youre probably gonna be silenced and/or erased eventually.
Actually there have been some pretty non confrontational billboards put up by the FFRF and American Atheists around Christmas usually, about spending time with family, being good for goodness sake and skipping church because it's all fake news.
This is a community of people who don’t have kids and like to talk about it. Nobody is putting up signs on the side of the road evangelizing it. If you don’t like it g go somewhere else.
I think both desires (wanting kids, not wanting kids) should be considered equally valid, and both should be respected, without people trying to convince you out of your preference.
100% on board. In practice, however, you'll find that one side is a hell of a lot more pushy than the other...
If everyone subscribed to this logic humanity; the only known intelligent species in the universe would die off. IMO that is the worst possible outcome.
I never wanted kids. I have nothing against them but it really seems like something you really need to want to do or have a good reason for doing it. "Milestone" just wasn't doing it for me, and it didn't help I never met anyone remotely interested in having kids with me.
The worst part is that most people dont have reliable access to abortion, sterilizations, birth controls or good sex education so to them it may be a 'Milestone' that they have no other choice but to do.
Please don't hate on me, I know the name of the community, I'm just trying to explain.
To me it's the same as saying "You look like shit after you exercise". Well, yes, but it kind of misses the point of it. I'm doing it for let's say "a greater good". Sure, exercising is hard and at times you want to say "fuck it" but in the end you're more healthy, skinny and you feel better both physically and mentally. Also I don't value my own comfort that highly - it's kind of fun to push myself actually. Sure I could eat fast food daily but - I know myself and I'd get bored and would try to find some new challenge.
To me it's the same with children. If you don't have these feelings, that's fine.
Had a coworker tell me without kids I'd be lonely when I grow old. So I suppose that's a "benefit" to some. If we completely ignore how selfish that is, and how ridiculous it is, thinking your children are going to visit you anything close to often enough to keep you from being lonely,
I reemember some dude I knew who said that his parents told him that 'you should have kids because nobody visits you other than them if you dont have them' ...
Well they wrre abusive towards him and his numerous other sisters growing up so guess who never visits their parents ... 🤭😏 They had ALL THESE kids ...and none of them visits them regularly 🤭
Yeah idk that may be the crux of it for me, i just dont get "lonely." Like i dont remember ever feeling like ive been alone for too long, i just like being alone!
Raising brand new human the way you want, he is your number one fan. Reliving all those emotions with him. Becoming more selfless and more empathetic. I'd say life with kid is good in its own way. It is like watching youtube of travel bloggers vs visiting those places yourself. You might like it or not
I guess if the brand new human wants to be like you. What if they don't? It's a big burden to put on a child, to live up to those expectations, wether or not you tell it so. Will you be disappointed in the child if it doesn't? Will you love it the same if it doesn't?
Edit. And I find it kinda offensive that you assume making a child would make me more selfless and empathetic.
I just don't care about those ifs. I am pretty chill and spend quality time with kid thats it. Being disappointed is putting high expectations and thats about anything in life, it drains all your energy so fuck that.
I don't really see any benefits at all to having children.
Our parents regularly told us they had us so we could keep their house clean. When I was an adult and saw the scale of the messes my niblings left, I had to ask my parents if they had just been telling themselves a very sardonic inside joke.
I don’t entirely disagree with you, but that is like saying people who are childfree don’t contribute to “the greater good”. I happily pay my taxes for other people’s children to be educated, I chat with the parents and kids in my neighborhood frequently, I support their school fundraisers, I helped hide a bicycle that the neighbor kid was getting for Christmas gift so it would be a surprise etc. Just because I do not have children, does not mean I do not contribute to the greater good. I push myself in other ways, I don’t need kids to push me out of my comfort zone. It’s ok that you do, but not everyone needs that
It gets incredibly tiring to be constantly told I’m not a real woman^tm^ because I don’t want children. Or that I’m going to regret it. Or that I’m not going to have anyone to take care of me when I’m old. It’s near constant up to a certain age for women to be harassed about having children from everyone when people should just mind their own business.
What’s really funny is that I live in a very family centered neighborhood with 30+ children in my cul de sac and not one of those parents have harassed me about having kids. They ask if it’s in the plans and when I say I don’t want them, they just say “that’s cool” and the conversation moves on. They are all super chill about it.
And all of my comments are from the perspective of a woman who would have verymuch kept and loved the child I miscarried, the child I never even knew I was pregnant with before I was miscarrying on a public restroom floor. But that was before pregnancy would have impacted my spinal fusion.
I mean, I don’t entire disagree with you either, but someone does need to have kids because those kids will grow up to be the nurses and doctors who I will pay to care for me when I’m old. That’s why I happily pay taxes to support other people’s kids; I want them fed, educated, and happy when they are wiping my 90 year old butt 😬
Id rather die lol but for real that's what you're looking forward to? Being wheeled around and shitting yourself but full of enough drugs to keep your heart beating and your colon moving in some way shape or form??
I didn’t say I was looking forward to being infirm, but I’ve already almost died twice before I was 30. I prefer to keep living even if it means taking a few pills to keep my heart ticking.
Women in my family typically stay pretty mobile up through our 90s and I’m healthier than a lot of my aunts and grandmothers already. I’d rather be alive and reading my books with someone wiping my bum than die before I am ready.
To me, there is no "greater good" to having children. From where I'm standing all you guys are doing is repeatedly dropping a rock on your feet and going "see this is so much fun, you should do it too!"
No thank you. I'm glad this brings you joy or whatever, but I do in fact value my own comfort and joy and peace of mind quite highly and so I will not be doing that.
Good for you. I hate people like you who call parenting a "dropping a rock on your feet" experience. You should stfu if you have no experience in parenting.
I'm still waiting for the "feel good" part of exercising to kick in. Been doing it for years, managed to lose nearly 100 pounds, and still feel like shit whenever I do it and afterwards. I'm at my happiest during the days I don't do any exercise on my days off of work. My therapist doesn't really think much of it since I get enjoyment from other things like frequent theater trips and talking to friends. Like if I could lose weight another way without paying a fuckton for surgery I'd rather do that so I can stay away from the depressed feelings.
Id highly recommend intense cardio if your havent tried it before. For like an hour or almost an hour
I find that I too feel 'not good' after exercising (I dont feel like shit just not good) but specifically when I do weightlifting or calisthenic exercises....
Intense cardio on the other hamd makes my 'self-deletion thoughts' disappear for a few days.
If you have tried it before and it didnt help? ....Aww 🫂🥺🫂
80% of weight loss is diet, exercise is a very inefficient way to lose weight, while you burn a few more calories, you get stronger more muscles and that makes you hungrier.
If you just jog for a half hour three times a week that's really all the exercise you need to be healthy. The weight control comes from diet.
Did....did I not say I lost a ton of weight? Like yes I know this. I said I don't get the joy from the exercise part of losing weight others get since exercise was the example used. Dieting wasn't brought up at all so I didn't feel a need to mention it.
well, you have kids or you don't... in both cases you may at some point doubt your choice (most humans do, for most of their choices). Also, in some case, kids are not really a choice, I know... some want some and can't, some weren't willing some (or not that early) but have them...
In all cases you may "feel some pain" of your situation, at some point. I just wish to point out that happily, you are not in the other situation, which has its pain too.
in both cases you may at some point doubt your choice (most humans do, for most of their choices).
This is not one of those choices. There are no doubts and never will be. Life's way too much fun to torpedo by doing something as self-serving as having a kid.
Well, you consider it a hassle. 👍 That's exactly my point, to each their own. Kids aren't inherently bad because work = tired = bad. 🙂 That equation is highly subjective. So your point about "this isn't one of those choices" I think is flawed. That's what I'm saying. It can definitely be one of those choices for someone.
How do you think, how come humanity is in stage where people are bot thought to raise kids ? And are you sure that even with 10% of popularity that wouldn't be wars?
Some points of view from person with kid.
My good friend who is child free said will have AI robot in case of need in old age. I think it's fantastic solution. Even now, senior houses are full of old people who don't see their kids for months if not years.
Second, if I knew before having kid all about NWO , digital world AI ECT, I would probably would have thought seriously not to bring another sentiant being on this suffering land. The thing is I always wanted kids as I can remember,but the situation in world makes me seriously regret that my child will have to live in it... because I love my child so much,I don't want my kid to be here...
But as it already happened, I can say,that the saying about true love is correct. Sometimes shifts in brain and heart when kid arrives. And no babysitting, raising other kids can be compared.
I support very much child free movement, because there is no reason for wonderful beings to experience all this madness what it's happening right now in world.
Idk i guess i dont want anyone to take care of me when im too old to take care of myself. And yes i yearn for the days i can chill in senior housing and nobody bothers me lol
I respect people who don't have them or want them. The reason why people feel compassionate about having kids is that (for them) it is the GREATEST FUCKING THING ever.
So when nerds are excited about something they won't shut up? We'll instead of a gameshow, programming paradigm, current research, global event it is kids.
It's like sushi, great that there is infrastructure for those who want, great that you are enjoying it. It is not for me and that is fine.
So when nerds are excited about something they won't shut up? We'll instead of a gameshow, programming paradigm, current research, global event
I'm a consummate nerd. We have a turn of phrase for the kind of person you're describing who constantly talks at people who don't share their interests, and cannot take a hint: we call them "insufferable assholes"^*^
^*unless they're neurodivergent and/or the thing they're talking about is actually critically important^
It is. As is being part of the LGBTQ+ community, which also isn't about to die out any time soon despite being the exact antithesis of natural selection.
Exactly. Being 2SLGBTQIA+ and being childfree may also be about environmental psychology or community psychology rather than about genetics.
I remember reading this one study that found that for every older brother a man has hus chances of ending up gay were increased by 33% for each. How does you having more brothers change YOUR genetics? Does a person with a uterus having more male babies change her genetics so that 'TheGay Genes'(we have not been able to identify definiteively which genes can lead to 'gayness') becomes expressed more inside her and her offspring? This connection may have nothing to do with genetics. Maybe its just a psychological aspect that a male with more brothers starts to look up towards and seek protection from males more often than they look up to and are protected by non-males, so maybe psychologically speaking they are more likely to seek out a male partner when they grow up. 🤷🏿♂️
SO being gay or 2SLGBTQIA+ cant really 'die out' because it may not be completely genetically linked it may also be about the community psychology that a person grows up with.
I cant say for certain since I dont have any certification in genomics or psychology so take all of the preceding with a grain of salt
I will say that I am childfree from a psychological aspect and not at all from a biological or genetic aspect. I have a breeding kink but Ive come to realize that the modern world and the modrrn economy is not one which makes me want to raise ANY children. If the capitalistic economy and genocidal socieites that we have today didnt exist I would definitely have children ...but over the years my desire to breed has been battered and battered by the awful things Ive seen people do to each other, the awful things that have happened to me, and the awful things I hear about people doing to each other on the news...
There's numerous people out there just like me who would want to have children but realize that they dont want their children to be blown up by some crazy politicians' needless war or that raising children is too expensive for them right now. ... And so I got snipped and some of those people will also be getting snipped!
Even less normal: entering said community to tell people who are minding their own business how not-normal it is to want to find community in a world that places undue emphasis on having kids.
I used to not want kids, then I had kids and they're my whole world, whole reason for living, but I think I'd stayed child free, I would have never believed that or felt that way. You only get the feelies after the child, not before. So you won't regret it.
I used to want kids, then I had to have spinal fusion surgery and decided not to have kids. I have my bunnies and hobbies, they are my whole world, my whole reason for living. You only understand freedom without kids. You should get rid of your kids, you won’t regret it.
This is how you sound to me.
Note: I’m not advocating anyone getting rid of their kids. I love kids and I love their parents. That doesn’t mean I want any of my own. It’s really disrespectful to try and convince people who don’t want kids to have kids that they don’t want. It’s also horrible for the kids to not be wanted.
Lots of love and tons of hay! lol Honestly, I think I just got lucky with him as my first bun. I paid close attention to him, made sure he went to all his vet visits, and tried to not give him too many treats, which is hard because they are so cute when they beg. My two now are 4.5 years small one and 2.5 lionhead.
You only get the feelies after the child, not before. So you won't regret it.
Really? For real real? Wow. Consider me converted, then. I'm off to go make a life-altering, irreversible decision that will completely nuke my finances and my lifestyle and my peace of mind and everything I've ever dreamed of doing, because the feelies will come afterwards and I sure as hell won't regret it. Right? Right?
I remember this one time I used to not want to go cave diving but then.... I read like a dozen stories of people drowning while caving and cave diving ... So now I used to not want to go cave daving and I still dont want to go cave diving!
There's a ton of people out there who regret having children. Yours is but one opinion.
You sound like the people who insist that you won't see the benefits of marriage until you take the plunge, meanwhile they're divorced or on the verge of.
Right? I don't care if any decides to have or not have kids. But trying to make sure everyone knows you don't want kids is weird. It's trying to build a community about something people don't share.
"Let's talk about how I've never fallen into a hole. I got to hang out with friends instead of falling into a hole. I got to eat instead of falling into a hole."
Oh trust me none of us ever have to go out of our way and tell people we’re not having kids. We get harassed by all the parents that see people happily childless. I never talk about kids because I don’t have them. Not my fault most adults only have kids to talk about.
Sadly yes, the fediverse is small and smaller communities are dead enough that you practically have to engage /r/all if you want enough content to keep you preoccupied on a day-to-day basis. Though being “brigaded” even happened on Reddit, though less often.
I’m childfree myself and it feels like everyone brigading is proving the point about why we need a community to vent, but sometimes I admit if I see a sublemmy circlejerking too much (any Linux worshipping/big tech hating one) I’m not afraid to leave comments pushing back.
I think they meant "why are you, as someone who enjoys having kids and wouldn't give them up for anything and has no regrets, posting in a community whose entire point is for memes and discussions about not having kids"
That's wonderful for you! I'm glad you're happy with things.
So why exactly are you here, in a childfree community page, telling people in said community about how great children are? That's a little weird, and a bit like someone here going to a school or daycare during pickup and telling all the parents how great not having kids is.
That's a little weird, and a bit like someone here going to a school or daycare during pickup and telling all the parents how great not having kids is.
Someone who did this would rightfully be considered an asshole, I’d even call them out for being an asshole. But folks with kids find it perfectly ok to come into childfree spaces to scold folks who don’t want kids. The logic does not compute.
There are even a few posts in this comm that I find cringy, I just keep scrolling, but these folks can’t help themselves.
Coercion runs so deeply through our ideological past that it's formed toxic sludge of anti-intellectualism. It's also, however, an effective way to castrate a population.
If a new world is to emerge, I sure hope it hurries along.
Have you seen the quality of the children, my guy?
Children are no longer a guarantee that youll be taken care of in old age.
I can pull out like 3 different news stories of where a child killed their own senior parents.
Nursing homes arent the best, children arent the best either. Nothing is guaranteed anymore when it comes to care in seniority...well....except you taking care of yourself that is. Heck , now that I think about it even pensions and social security are in a state of limbo in so many countries cause greedy policitcians have to pay off the debts that they have to their billionaire puppeteers lol!
I hate this question. It implies that you should be taking care of your parents when they’re old. It’s not feasible full time anymore. And aren’t we supposed to be independent adults? Shouldn’t they have been ready for retirement? I like to throw a lot of shit that olds say to young’s first. The irony of it all.
You seem to think the average person actually plans for this. They don't and even in 1st world countries that care for their elderly the system is still strained and crumbling.
If you honestly think you'll be rich good on you and best of luck in a retirement home. The vast majority of people are not going to be that lucky.
This screams of the same youth that say they don't need to pay for health insurance because they're healthy. You really think you know what the future is going to bring?
Damn.
And to be clear, no sane adult expects their kids to pick up the slack but statistics show that is what happens worldwide.
Kids are the primary point of care for their aging and elderly parents.
A lot of you are going to have a cold snap of reality when you're old and alone.
This screams of the same youth that say they don't need to pay for health insurance because they're healthy. You really think you know what the future is going to bring?
I have health insurance. I pay for it with my money so that my money that I worked hard for can take care of me when I need it. I do not expect anyone else to move mountains to "take care" of me when I'm older. I'm not putting that burden on anyone else; when it comes to the point where it's a very real possibility that I'll need someone else's assistance to survive I'll just end it and be done with it.
no sane adult expects their kids to pick up the slack
And yet here you are, expecting exactly that and superciliously judging us for thinking different.
The same people that take care of people that have kids? I guess a counter-question then, do you expect your children to take care of you? Do you expect them to let you move in? Do you think a majority of people take care of their parents?
Guess we could define what "take care of" means exactly cuz ngl most people just stick their parents in a home and visit around the holidays.
People vastly underestimate how much family is involved with end of life care. My parents are mid-70s and mid-80s and not in a home not that we could afford it. My sister and I jiggle all the things life throws at them.
Youth seriously does not realize the amount of appointments let alone care goes into looking after our elders. Bless you all but you're naive as all get out.
This is always the question and the answer is two point.
First, that’s an incredibly selfish reason to have kids. I won’t be taking care of anyone into their old age as payment for being born.
Secondly, I’ll pay a nurse to take care of me with all the money I have from not having kids. It’s crazy what compound interest will do when you’re not broke with 3-4 kids.
The people I pay to do it with the money I saved by not having kids.
Also neither my wife nor I are all that interested in hanging around past the point where someone else has to wipe our asses, so old age care is a pretty minor concern.
Who says I'm gonna want someone taking care of me instead of just letting me die? Have you seen the world? I don't have the positivity to think it'll get better to the point of being worth it in 40-50 years.
I think I might like to have children one day, but I don't think children should be viewed as a selfish investment, existing just to benefit yourself.
In fact, if I do have kids one day, I think I would prefer for them to invest as little as possible in my old age care, so they can instead use their money to improve their own lives.
We build statues of genocidal racists like winston churchill and of convicted pedophiles like karl malone ...
but then we dont build statues of selfless people with common sense like you and the people who have done what you just said and THATS another thing I despise about humanity.
We probably should build statues of selfless people, but I wouldn't put myself in that group. I know I have definitely been selfish at some points in life. Properly selfless people are those who give lots to charity, or volunteer for charity, and so on.
When it comes to wanting good things for your kids, surely that is very common. Many parents expend a lot of energy to try to provide the best lives for their kids, although you do sometimes come across parents who put themselves ahead of their kids.
but do really think youve been as selfish as someone like wiston churchill?
And also the thing is that even those selfless parents are more worthy of having a statue built in their honor AND STILL ....humanjty chooses the most selfish and genocidal people ever to honor time and time and time again
I don't know lots about Churchill, even though I should because I'm British.
Yeah sometimes statues get built of people who aren't too great. Like George Washington, who owned slaves. I guess statues are usually commissioned and paid for by wealthy and powerful people who are trying to propagandise their viewpoints, because if ordinary people believe the propaganda of the powerful, then the powerful get to stay in power.
Let it be known that I know a dude who has like 5 or 6 other siblings who do not care for or visit any of their parents now that their parents are theyre both seniors. If anything they actually do not give a flying fuck about their parents seeing as how one of them abused them and and the other didnt want to pay child support after he cheated and so he neglected them lol.
So ...they have all these kids...but none of those kids is there for them now lol!
Having kids is no guarantee that theyll be there for you in seniority lol.
I mean that's what you want kids for? to be your live in nurse? You dont want them to be successful people who will have better things to do than care for an infirm elderly person??
Yeah, not buying it. It's def a thing people wear around like a badge of honor.
I don't seek out communities for stuff I don't care about. That's really strange behavior. I don't go and look for "I don't own a bike" groups. I also don't own a bird, I don't drink white wine, I don't skydive, I don't read romance novels. I don't belong to communities of people who also don't do those things. The point of seeking others is to share what you have in common; when that thing is ONE aspect of your life that you don't like and thusly don't do, what do you have in common with those people? The only reason to join a community of people who don't do a thing is to talk about why you don't like or do that thing.
I've never seen a "dogfree" community. That a childfree one exists is very strange. In the end it's usually people just complaining.
That a childfree one exists is very strange. In the end it's usually people just complaining.
That's mostly because of all the shit people give us when they ask us why we don't have kids yet. They expect us to conform and then treat us like pariahs when we don't. This is just a place where we can vent about that to other people that understand what we go through.
I have kids. Seeing these communities here and on reddit makes me think twice about ever bringing up the kids question with anybody. I know people who are married, and I'm pretty sure they're going to have kids, but it's their business not mine (until they make it mine). I've also known people who couldn't have kids, and so the question, on top of being annoying, may be insensitive.
Me and others are here because it's on c/all, and so that's that. I will say, I'm pleased by the lack of "crotch goblins" in here. Everyone seems mature, for the most part.
Bringing up the kids question is fine. It's kind of the same as asking if you're going on holidays this year.
It's how it's brought up and what follows which is usually what can be frustrating. I personally am happy to have a conversation with anyone about why I don't want children, so long as you're not trying to guilt trip me, tell me I'll regret it, or any of the other common occurrences you see in this thread.
The fact that you would think twice about asking tells me you wouldn't have that problem. The question should be more "are you thinking of having children?" And not "when are you having kids?"
I don't want to excuse all the assholery, but I get the sense that some of the hate is latent backlash acquired from other, more aggressive communities elsewhere that have more of an extreme antinatalist bent.
This place, even though it shares the name with some of those other places, it doesn't seem like that really - like even though I do have a child I feel like I could still comment in good faith here and there as long as I'm engaging respectfully.
Random lady from down the street came to invite me to the neighbourhood party, asked if we have kids. I said no. She told me I'd better get right on that because the clock is ticking.
So uhh, yeah, they very much are. You're experiencing different things in a different life, and it doesn't map to the lives of others. This isn't rocket science.
Blatantly false. Strangers regularly ask inappropriate questions about why we don’t have kids. Is she sick? Are you shootin blanks? Weirdo questions for weirdo parents who think it’s their responsibility to evangelize parenting. People need to mind their own business.
There are plenty of communities for people not doing or liking or wanting a thing that society considers normal or common.
For example, carfree, or just gasoline-free. There are meatfree groups. There are communities for the religionfree, or powergrid-free. There are a fuckton of AI-free communities.
Just because they're not named that, and you're not very inventive, doesn't mean they don't exist
Could you be less informed? Your argument compares things that have nothing in common with each other. Every person who has chosen (or not chosen but physically unable but keeping it private) gets shit on for that choice. You actually probably could find a community somewhere for most anyone being bullied and harassed for a specific preference they have. The existence of this community is not strange, it would have always existed on any form of mass communication. The fact that you don't understand people having a backlash to their major life choice constantly being questioned and shit on says that you don't actually think very hard about...much.
Yeah there are no "I don't own dogs" communities, because people who don't own dogs don't get judged and harassed most days for not owning a dog. Pretty easy to see that actually.
This safe space was created to avoid people like you. You have literally the whole world and you choose to infiltrate here. Geez Louise, go play with your kids
Hey look it's another person making sweeping generalizations. Can't possibly raise an eyebrow to "people who have kids are dumb" unless you have kids, I guess?
Or they created a space for folks like me who do not want children to vent about folks who try to convince us we are wrong to not want children.
I like kids, I just don’t want any of my own. I have been told for years that I’m not a real woman^tm^ because I don’t want kids. It’s pretty nice to have a space where I don’t have my femininity judged based on someone else’s standards. It’s nice to have a space to vent about how we get scolded for not wanting kids.
And it’s not “literally all” OP does. Are you going on their car free posts and telling them they are awful for not wanting a car? What about their anti-AI posts to tell them how they are a bad person for not wanting AI? No, you’re just here judging someone for not wanting children.
Oh yeah I snapped when someone asked me when I'm going to have kids at a get together. I just said never, I'm a guy, I worked in education and that was more than enough for me. I don't want to do that for 18+ years.
I do vent out frustrations on the anti car stuff. I had a roommate who was against cars. And you know how that went? Can you drive my spouse to the doctor? Can you take the rubbish to the dump? Can you get groceries from the next town over for us? Can you pick up a large package at the post office? The list goes on; the irony was getting to me, so you refuse to get a car and then just rely on me instead?
I once explained my position to coworkers, including the fact that I have a spinal fusion, as a reason I don’t want to have children. I even added that if I do change my mind, I can always foster or adopt later in life.
The one gal just goes “well I think all women should have their own child. Adoption isn’t the same as having one of your own”. She said this in front of a coworker who was adopted with his brother into a wonderful loving home after being removed from an abusive one. Like wtf, it was so disgusting of her.
She’s also the one who told me (a woman who loves having a pixie cut) that the only reason she feels like a “real woman” is because she has long hair. Misogyny is a hell of a drug.
She was a very judgmental person in general, I was just really grossed out that she could say that in front of someone she knew had been adopted from an abusive home.
Your/their reaction here only makes sense without context or considering subtext. This is an old debate but lemme try one more time to make it make sense... When people say "you made a personality out of X" they are really saying "I judge you for being too interested in something that you shouldn't be". That is the subtext.
The context is that human beings get inundated with the messaging that having kids is the only normal thing to do, that you will never be truly happy if you don't, that kids are the best thing in the world ever. Just ask someone who wants kids, but is not fertile, how they feel about it. That must be hell for them, because it's annoying and offensive enough just being in the position of getting constantly told you're wrong for your choice on the matter. Parents shame their children and put pressure on them, workplaces endlessly forgive being late/absent for kids, and governments literally pay you to have kids. Strangers on the internet tell you life is incomplete without them. TV and other media says the same. No matter who you are or where you're at, if you interact with other people and you don't have kids, you're gonna be made to feel weird about it at best. Constantly. Who's going to tell you that kids suck or that it's okay not to have them? Very few people, especially the former.
My understanding is that OP's post like this, and their community, is a reaction to this constant messaging telling you that you're abnormal or unhappy if you don't have kids. I took a peek at the community and OP doesn't even post that much there. They probably have posted less than 1 time for every 1000 times they've gotten the message that they should have kids. I am going to venture a guess that the commenter here did not see 1000 "child free" posts before they decided to fire back and shame OP for making one.
I wouldn't likely have never commented on this community if it weren't for OP's toxicity in the comments in the past. Their attitude goes far beyond "I don't want kids" to "anyone who likes being a parent is a fuckin liar." Similar to how some parents believe that the childless are inherently miserable.
They clearly don't believe that anyone is happier with kids which is....just asinine.
For the record, I don't have nor do I want children. But a lot of my friends are very happy parents building an incredible life for their kids. Every downside the OP harps on is so tiny compared to what they're getting out of it.
Also hilarious that they think kids are the reason people wake up before 8am
Well I'm not seeing them being a jerk to anyone here, but what you describe definitely also sounds explainable by the constant pro-kid information we are force fed. It's why this community exists, it's why this is a thing, it's why this debate happens. If most of society wasn't judging us, exactly the inverse of what you're claiming here, it would seem as out of nowhere and dickish as you suggest. But the vast majority of people will either silently judge you, talk about you behind your back for it, or put pressure on you overtly. I've had coworkers repeatedly tell me I should have kids and I witnessed another coworker finally snap at a different coworker who was telling him he needed to have kids, after what you could tell was years of needling. This is insanely common. It's why there is a backlash to it. The backlash is a tiny fraction as bad as the norm of shaming and judging.
Most people here aren't antinatallist, and pretending they are makes you look even dumber than going to a community about X, and then arguing against X.
Did you check people's comment and posting history to see if it's their "whole personality" or did you just make a snap judgment based on a single meme?
I notice you posted a comment about knitting/crochet, is that your entire personality? What about that time you said Bangladesh was "crazy" for having deaths related to ship scrapping. Is your whole personality about ship breaking?
I think it's weird to pass judgment based on people not wanting kids and being tired of other people telling us how great having kids is and we will regret it.
No joke, I've had people tell me I will regret transitioning because I won't be able to "father children", using that exact phrase.
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I have had people telling me "you'll regret not having kids when you grow up" all through my 20s, and now that I'm in my 30s I've only had more and more people ask me when my spouse and I will be trying for kids because "it's almost too late"
Since medically transitioning, a disturbing number of people have decided to butt in and tell me I should be storing sperm "for when you decide to have kids" and if I don't, then I won't be physically able to have them.
I've even had a couple of people (mostly one specific person) telling me after I inform them I had a vasectomy over a decade ago and my spouse had a tubal ligation at least 5 years ago, that vasectomies are reversible and "it doesn't have to be your wife" (my spouse is NB but seemingly nobody except the Trans people we know seem to remember that)
I find it funny that people with kids keep telling me specifically that I will regret not having kids and giving me their opinions, yet never once have I gone out telling new partners NOT to have kids.
Also hilarious is how people with kids get defensive about their decision and go on about how people without kids make it their whole personality.
And its always fun to guess if I'll see "well you people are creepy for making this one page I have only just found and decided it's all you ever talk about also here's an anecdote about how much I totally love my kids and never think like this" type comments before opening the page.
And honestly with so many fascist governments pushing us to have more kids for their meat grinders, climate change making the planet hostile for life, and everything being more expensive, it's a wonder anyone would voluntarily have children today.
All those people also seem to forget that you can also adopt a kid if you cannot make one btw
Sadly, they do not. When you are fully infertile and tell them so, to make them stop bothering you, it comes up, "well, you can always adopt!"
Personally I have never wanted kids, but I could not adopt either, not even be a foster parent. I would never ever be considered fit to adopt kids, with my vast medical history. I imagine these types of people, would make up some other bullshit argument, even if I explained that.
It’s always old people being pushy about it. Even after I tell them I’m not traditional like that. Like I want no kids, no marriage, just a low responsibility lifestyle. Some of em wanna lecture like you need guidance. Or the most offensive is when they respond with pity, like oh you poor thing. So fuckin weird and nosy. Like I would never do the same vice versa, wtf?
Aye, let it be known that Ive been lectured by people YOUNGER than me about why I should have kids... Im only 30 😐 ... Age and identity doesnt determine ignorance.
Very sorry for the fascists and A holes that keep on butting into your lives. 🥺🫂
But I have just gotts ask , where in the world did you meet your partner? Like dating to me feels like a diamond mine to me, I have not found anybody who wants me at all in my 7 years of asking people. But then on top of that dating as a childfree person is like like trying to find anti-matter diamonds in a diamond mine. But then on top of that dating as a childfree person who is accepting of NB gender expressions and sexuality is like trying to find ...uh.... anti-anti-matter diamonds in a mine.
Just tell them you are trying but without success thus this topic is not what you want to discuss. Easier for you. They wont ask this question anymore.
I find it telling that every reason people try to give why "you'll regret having kids" is just selfish.
"Who will take care of YOU when you're older?" "Don't YOU want people to always be in YOUR life?" "YOU won't know love until YOU have a child." "Don't YOU want your bloodline to survive?" "Don't YOU want purpose in your life?"
Oh don’t forget the “you’ll die alone” guilt trip.
Lmao good, I hope it’s quiet.
Not sure I get your point. We are talking about a decision about YOU so of course it will revolve around YOU.
Believe it or not sometimes people make decisions for the good of other people!
Imo bringing another life into this world should be as selfless as possible. Not that you want "an extra pair of hands around the house" or "you want to pass on your genes". But more like "I have the ability to create the most precious thing in this world and I want it to have a life better than my own". You know?
I know this is a childfree community so all of you might dislike this comment, but I saw this post when looking at all posts, so here are my worthless two cents:
I think both desires (wanting kids, not wanting kids) should be considered equally valid, and both should be respected, without people trying to convince you out of your preference.
I agree, and I’ve never met anyone trying to convince me to not have a kid.
We constantly get questioned/pressured/guilted about having kids that we’ve never wanted.
It’s just like religion, nobody is putting up billboards about atheism. It’s always the people in the group foisting their beliefs onto people outside the norm.
THATS the rhing about being childfree.
The way I see it is that the majority of humans on the planet today do not have adequate access to sex education, voluntary sterilizations, birth controls and voluntary abortions...so if anything the average person is being forced to be ANTI-childfree even if they see childfree peoples as their equals or they themselves are childfree. (I will personally add that if you want to have childrrn? Meh. Have fun to each their own. If you want to be childfree? Depending on which part of the world youre in, good fucking luck lol😒)
I feel like its like being Palestinian. Dude nobody in the world is forcing ANY BODY to be Palestinian . But there are A LOT of celebrities , governments, and companies that would force a person to be ANTI-Palestinian
if anything being Palestinian or pro-Palestinian means thst youre probably gonna be silenced and/or erased eventually.
Actually there have been some pretty non confrontational billboards put up by the FFRF and American Atheists around Christmas usually, about spending time with family, being good for goodness sake and skipping church because it's all fake news.
Good! I hope those 1% of billboards get seen in the sea of religious propaganda in this country. I would say it’s far from the norm though.
This community? Unless you don't think people here are real people, that is.
This is a community of people who don’t have kids and like to talk about it. Nobody is putting up signs on the side of the road evangelizing it. If you don’t like it g go somewhere else.
You don't see the cognitive dissonance in that statement?
100% on board. In practice, however, you'll find that one side is a hell of a lot more pushy than the other...
Right?
When are you having kids? Thinking of having kids? We want brand kids when are you having kids?
Meanwhile no one asks parents "when are you giving up your kids?"
I also saw this while browsing all, and don't subscribe to these kinds of communities.
However, in a world on the verge of literal destruction due to climate change, I can't help but think it's unethical to bring children into it.
If everyone subscribed to this logic humanity; the only known intelligent species in the universe would die off. IMO that is the worst possible outcome.
With how things are going, that's debatable
I never wanted kids. I have nothing against them but it really seems like something you really need to want to do or have a good reason for doing it. "Milestone" just wasn't doing it for me, and it didn't help I never met anyone remotely interested in having kids with me.
The worst part is that most people dont have reliable access to abortion, sterilizations, birth controls or good sex education so to them it may be a 'Milestone' that they have no other choice but to do.
Had to break up with a couple people who wanted kids, finally met someone else who doesn't want them at all either and it's been great
Please don't hate on me, I know the name of the community, I'm just trying to explain.
To me it's the same as saying "You look like shit after you exercise". Well, yes, but it kind of misses the point of it. I'm doing it for let's say "a greater good". Sure, exercising is hard and at times you want to say "fuck it" but in the end you're more healthy, skinny and you feel better both physically and mentally. Also I don't value my own comfort that highly - it's kind of fun to push myself actually. Sure I could eat fast food daily but - I know myself and I'd get bored and would try to find some new challenge.
To me it's the same with children. If you don't have these feelings, that's fine.
This analogy doesn't really work for me, because I don't really see any benefits at all to having children.
With exercise, it's pretty obvious why you'd do it, but with kids? Honestly, I just see downsides that lead to more downsides.
Had a coworker tell me without kids I'd be lonely when I grow old. So I suppose that's a "benefit" to some. If we completely ignore how selfish that is, and how ridiculous it is, thinking your children are going to visit you anything close to often enough to keep you from being lonely,
Exactly.
I reemember some dude I knew who said that his parents told him that 'you should have kids because nobody visits you other than them if you dont have them' ...
Well they wrre abusive towards him and his numerous other sisters growing up so guess who never visits their parents ... 🤭😏 They had ALL THESE kids ...and none of them visits them regularly 🤭
Yeah idk that may be the crux of it for me, i just dont get "lonely." Like i dont remember ever feeling like ive been alone for too long, i just like being alone!
Raising brand new human the way you want, he is your number one fan. Reliving all those emotions with him. Becoming more selfless and more empathetic. I'd say life with kid is good in its own way. It is like watching youtube of travel bloggers vs visiting those places yourself. You might like it or not
I guess if the brand new human wants to be like you. What if they don't? It's a big burden to put on a child, to live up to those expectations, wether or not you tell it so. Will you be disappointed in the child if it doesn't? Will you love it the same if it doesn't?
Edit. And I find it kinda offensive that you assume making a child would make me more selfless and empathetic.
I just don't care about those ifs. I am pretty chill and spend quality time with kid thats it. Being disappointed is putting high expectations and thats about anything in life, it drains all your energy so fuck that.
Well my childhood was awful so that may be why i dont see any of that as good lmao
Our parents regularly told us they had us so we could keep their house clean. When I was an adult and saw the scale of the messes my niblings left, I had to ask my parents if they had just been telling themselves a very sardonic inside joke.
They were not.
I don’t entirely disagree with you, but that is like saying people who are childfree don’t contribute to “the greater good”. I happily pay my taxes for other people’s children to be educated, I chat with the parents and kids in my neighborhood frequently, I support their school fundraisers, I helped hide a bicycle that the neighbor kid was getting for Christmas gift so it would be a surprise etc. Just because I do not have children, does not mean I do not contribute to the greater good. I push myself in other ways, I don’t need kids to push me out of my comfort zone. It’s ok that you do, but not everyone needs that
It gets incredibly tiring to be constantly told I’m not a real woman^tm^ because I don’t want children. Or that I’m going to regret it. Or that I’m not going to have anyone to take care of me when I’m old. It’s near constant up to a certain age for women to be harassed about having children from everyone when people should just mind their own business.
What’s really funny is that I live in a very family centered neighborhood with 30+ children in my cul de sac and not one of those parents have harassed me about having kids. They ask if it’s in the plans and when I say I don’t want them, they just say “that’s cool” and the conversation moves on. They are all super chill about it.
And all of my comments are from the perspective of a woman who would have very much kept and loved the child I miscarried, the child I never even knew I was pregnant with before I was miscarrying on a public restroom floor. But that was before pregnancy would have impacted my spinal fusion.
I would hardly call bringing a kid into the enshitified world we live in “the greater good”.
I mean honestly, can these people be more self righteous?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0KQYNtPl7V4&pp=ygUdbm8gd2Ugd29udCBmaXggY2xpbWF0ZSBjaGFuZ2U%3D
If that aint the doggone truth...
Yeah we’re cooked
I mean, I don’t entire disagree with you either, but someone does need to have kids because those kids will grow up to be the nurses and doctors who I will pay to care for me when I’m old. That’s why I happily pay taxes to support other people’s kids; I want them fed, educated, and happy when they are wiping my 90 year old butt 😬
Id rather die lol but for real that's what you're looking forward to? Being wheeled around and shitting yourself but full of enough drugs to keep your heart beating and your colon moving in some way shape or form??
I didn’t say I was looking forward to being infirm, but I’ve already almost died twice before I was 30. I prefer to keep living even if it means taking a few pills to keep my heart ticking.
Women in my family typically stay pretty mobile up through our 90s and I’m healthier than a lot of my aunts and grandmothers already. I’d rather be alive and reading my books with someone wiping my bum than die before I am ready.
To me, there is no "greater good" to having children. From where I'm standing all you guys are doing is repeatedly dropping a rock on your feet and going "see this is so much fun, you should do it too!"
No thank you. I'm glad this brings you joy or whatever, but I do in fact value my own comfort and joy and peace of mind quite highly and so I will not be doing that.
Good for you. I hate people like you who call parenting a "dropping a rock on your feet" experience. You should stfu if you have no experience in parenting.
I'm still waiting for the "feel good" part of exercising to kick in. Been doing it for years, managed to lose nearly 100 pounds, and still feel like shit whenever I do it and afterwards. I'm at my happiest during the days I don't do any exercise on my days off of work. My therapist doesn't really think much of it since I get enjoyment from other things like frequent theater trips and talking to friends. Like if I could lose weight another way without paying a fuckton for surgery I'd rather do that so I can stay away from the depressed feelings.
Id highly recommend intense cardio if your havent tried it before. For like an hour or almost an hour
I find that I too feel 'not good' after exercising (I dont feel like shit just not good) but specifically when I do weightlifting or calisthenic exercises....
Intense cardio on the other hamd makes my 'self-deletion thoughts' disappear for a few days.
If you have tried it before and it didnt help? ....Aww 🫂🥺🫂
80% of weight loss is diet, exercise is a very inefficient way to lose weight, while you burn a few more calories, you get stronger more muscles and that makes you hungrier.
If you just jog for a half hour three times a week that's really all the exercise you need to be healthy. The weight control comes from diet.
Did....did I not say I lost a ton of weight? Like yes I know this. I said I don't get the joy from the exercise part of losing weight others get since exercise was the example used. Dieting wasn't brought up at all so I didn't feel a need to mention it.
If i didnt think that was batshit insane delusion i might consider having kids lmao
"A moneyless society will never work! How do I know? A billionaire told me of course!" Type Energy 😂🤣
I raised so many other people's kids. I've done my part in spades, and with bells on.
Only people with kids know what it's like to have them and not have them.
...uhhh ....well...
If youre an EC educator or a babysitter for literal babeis youll DEFINITELY find out whst its like to have kids...
(Heads up, Ive found that theyre too destructive and expensive for my liking. Others may discover the same...)
edit: I would say the only part you dont get to experience is the birthing process.
Everything after thst the birth is the boring , expensive, 'gotdamn kid wont listen to me even though Im tryna give him life advice' part lol
It is in fact a different experience. You are DEFINITELY wrong
I would say the only part you dont get to experience is the birthing process.
Everything after thst the birth is the boring , expensive, 'gotdamn kid wont listen to me even though Im tryna give him life advice' part lol
Idk, I am more like a friend than parent. I don't want to be super strict, they learn by watching anyways
Well, I know what it's like to not have them, so I'm perfectly okay with never finding out what it's like to have them.
Only people with kids were stupid enough to have kids
So your mom?
I know what it's like to not have them, and I enjoy that feeling far too much to be bothered to find out what it's like to have them.
If you don't have kids, you will know the pain it is to do not have them.
If you have kids, you will know the pain it is to have them.
Choose your path 😬
I choose redneck fun uncle who will help the kids bury a body.
What the hell are you on about?
He means what you are whining about. Not having a spine to tell people who ask you about kids to never raise this topic.
well, you have kids or you don't... in both cases you may at some point doubt your choice (most humans do, for most of their choices). Also, in some case, kids are not really a choice, I know... some want some and can't, some weren't willing some (or not that early) but have them...
In all cases you may "feel some pain" of your situation, at some point. I just wish to point out that happily, you are not in the other situation, which has its pain too.
This is not one of those choices. There are no doubts and never will be. Life's way too much fun to torpedo by doing something as self-serving as having a kid.
It is great for you to have no doubts, it spares you some useless pain.
People have different ideas about what makes a fun time. Some people like to spend time with their families and kids. 😊
... Good for them? I'm not sure what that has to do with our enjoyment of a life without the hassle of kids
Well, you consider it a hassle. 👍 That's exactly my point, to each their own. Kids aren't inherently bad because work = tired = bad. 🙂 That equation is highly subjective. So your point about "this isn't one of those choices" I think is flawed. That's what I'm saying. It can definitely be one of those choices for someone.
Was it not clear that in this conversation about my choices, this is not one of the choices that I made that I could possibly have regrets about?
Jokes on them I'm like that without children
No one knows how to raise kids and what to teach them.
The world is a better place with fewer people. People just start stupid wars and hate each other more than they like each other.
misanthropy is a valid reason to be childfree , just know that Im with you on that point.🫱🏿🫲🏼
How do you think, how come humanity is in stage where people are bot thought to raise kids ? And are you sure that even with 10% of popularity that wouldn't be wars?
Some points of view from person with kid. My good friend who is child free said will have AI robot in case of need in old age. I think it's fantastic solution. Even now, senior houses are full of old people who don't see their kids for months if not years. Second, if I knew before having kid all about NWO , digital world AI ECT, I would probably would have thought seriously not to bring another sentiant being on this suffering land. The thing is I always wanted kids as I can remember,but the situation in world makes me seriously regret that my child will have to live in it... because I love my child so much,I don't want my kid to be here... But as it already happened, I can say,that the saying about true love is correct. Sometimes shifts in brain and heart when kid arrives. And no babysitting, raising other kids can be compared.
I support very much child free movement, because there is no reason for wonderful beings to experience all this madness what it's happening right now in world.
Idk i guess i dont want anyone to take care of me when im too old to take care of myself. And yes i yearn for the days i can chill in senior housing and nobody bothers me lol
I have a kid and it's great for me.
I respect people who don't have them or want them. The reason why people feel compassionate about having kids is that (for them) it is the GREATEST FUCKING THING ever.
So when nerds are excited about something they won't shut up? We'll instead of a gameshow, programming paradigm, current research, global event it is kids.
It's like sushi, great that there is infrastructure for those who want, great that you are enjoying it. It is not for me and that is fine.
Have your sushi.
I'm a consummate nerd. We have a turn of phrase for the kind of person you're describing who constantly talks at people who don't share their interests, and cannot take a hint: we call them "insufferable assholes"^*^
^*unless they're neurodivergent and/or the thing they're talking about is actually critically important^
I can smell the misery from continents away lmao
As a child free married person, you might need to describe the misery you are referring to.
Misery loves company, so my money is on projection.
My adult life has been like living on a college campus. It's great. I try to steer clear of insularity.
Thankfully natural selection is a thing and this movement will die out.
Very normal thing to say about people who simply don't feel the need to procreate
This in itself is very normal.
It is. As is being part of the LGBTQ+ community, which also isn't about to die out any time soon despite being the exact antithesis of natural selection.
Exactly. Being 2SLGBTQIA+ and being childfree may also be about environmental psychology or community psychology rather than about genetics.
I remember reading this one study that found that for every older brother a man has hus chances of ending up gay were increased by 33% for each. How does you having more brothers change YOUR genetics? Does a person with a uterus having more male babies change her genetics so that 'TheGay Genes'(we have not been able to identify definiteively which genes can lead to 'gayness') becomes expressed more inside her and her offspring? This connection may have nothing to do with genetics. Maybe its just a psychological aspect that a male with more brothers starts to look up towards and seek protection from males more often than they look up to and are protected by non-males, so maybe psychologically speaking they are more likely to seek out a male partner when they grow up. 🤷🏿♂️
SO being gay or 2SLGBTQIA+ cant really 'die out' because it may not be completely genetically linked it may also be about the community psychology that a person grows up with.
I cant say for certain since I dont have any certification in genomics or psychology so take all of the preceding with a grain of salt
I will say that I am childfree from a psychological aspect and not at all from a biological or genetic aspect. I have a breeding kink but Ive come to realize that the modern world and the modrrn economy is not one which makes me want to raise ANY children. If the capitalistic economy and genocidal socieites that we have today didnt exist I would definitely have children ...but over the years my desire to breed has been battered and battered by the awful things Ive seen people do to each other, the awful things that have happened to me, and the awful things I hear about people doing to each other on the news...
There's numerous people out there just like me who would want to have children but realize that they dont want their children to be blown up by some crazy politicians' needless war or that raising children is too expensive for them right now. ... And so I got snipped and some of those people will also be getting snipped!
Less normal: building a community centered on it.
Even less normal: entering said community to tell people who are minding their own business how not-normal it is to want to find community in a world that places undue emphasis on having kids.
Yeah a community of like minded people is sooo weird.
I used to not want kids, then I had kids and they're my whole world, whole reason for living, but I think I'd stayed child free, I would have never believed that or felt that way. You only get the feelies after the child, not before. So you won't regret it.
I used to want kids, then I had to have spinal fusion surgery and decided not to have kids. I have my bunnies and hobbies, they are my whole world, my whole reason for living. You only understand freedom without kids. You should get rid of your kids, you won’t regret it.
This is how you sound to me.
Note: I’m not advocating anyone getting rid of their kids. I love kids and I love their parents. That doesn’t mean I want any of my own. It’s really disrespectful to try and convince people who don’t want kids to have kids that they don’t want. It’s also horrible for the kids to not be wanted.
bnuuy mentioned. Two is enough daily stress and meal prep for me already.
My goodness! What a cutie! So ferocious!!
My two babies!
Very well groomed lion chops. Here's his more demure older friend.
Oh my! How old is this distinguished bun? Such a cutie pie! My oldest was almost 13 when he passed away.
She's about to turn 7. White bun just turned 4 but he's a New Zealand so they are probably about equivalent in age.
13 years is an accomplishment! What's your secret? Our previous bun was almost 9 when medical issues started piling up.
Lots of love and tons of hay! lol Honestly, I think I just got lucky with him as my first bun. I paid close attention to him, made sure he went to all his vet visits, and tried to not give him too many treats, which is hard because they are so cute when they beg. My two now are 4.5 years small one and 2.5 lionhead.
Please give your cuties some scritches from me! 💚
🫂 I dont have a bunny but I have to give you this 🫂
Admittedly, you only really get the craving for heroin or crack after, not before...
Really? For real real? Wow. Consider me converted, then. I'm off to go make a life-altering, irreversible decision that will completely nuke my finances and my lifestyle and my peace of mind and everything I've ever dreamed of doing, because the feelies will come afterwards and I sure as hell won't regret it. Right? Right?
What?
Just like in Idiocracy! Oh wait the ones having the kids were the stupid ones….
Fitting. It takes a lot of vitriol and ferocious hatred to colonize anything.
I've changed my assessment. You're not very bright. Please tell your future kids they have my deepest sympathies.
...yes. That's the fucking point.
I used to not want kids. I still don't, but I used to too
I remember this one time I used to not want to go cave diving but then.... I read like a dozen stories of people drowning while caving and cave diving ... So now I used to not want to go cave daving and I still dont want to go cave diving!
You wont regret it! 🤣👍🏿
This comment was reasonable up until the last
sentencetwo sentences. Not everyone is like you.There's a ton of people out there who regret having children. Yours is but one opinion.
You sound like the people who insist that you won't see the benefits of marriage until you take the plunge, meanwhile they're divorced or on the verge of.
I regret not getting sterilized earlier.
Yeah but if people follow your advice and they’re not digging being a parent, there’s no take backsies
Sounds like mental illness.
It's more of an instinct that we've evolved in order to be successful as a species.
However, we have plenty of people, everyone can just cool it with the kid having.
I have teenagers and there are PLENTY of days when I ask what the hell I have done to myself.
literally hop on down to r/regretfulparents on reddit and type out whst you just typed out .... come back with results ...
(THIS is gonna be gooood 🍿🤭)
Bitterness as a hobby
The only bitterness I see is you scolding people who want something different from you. Piss off and stop being a dick hole.
Right? I don't care if any decides to have or not have kids. But trying to make sure everyone knows you don't want kids is weird. It's trying to build a community about something people don't share.
"Let's talk about how I've never fallen into a hole. I got to hang out with friends instead of falling into a hole. I got to eat instead of falling into a hole."
Oh trust me none of us ever have to go out of our way and tell people we’re not having kids. We get harassed by all the parents that see people happily childless. I never talk about kids because I don’t have them. Not my fault most adults only have kids to talk about.
Wouldn’t give all the trips to Paris for my awesome kids
They are such wonderful people
But it’s a free country and you do you
That's wonderful. Why are you here?
This is getting pretty high on All , so the person could've seen it just scrolling and didn't see the community name.
I'm not subscribed and I saw this on my feed
Are people in the habit of just hurtling headlong into the comments without pausing to look at what community they're in?
Yes. Wait ‘till you learn that people also comment before reading the article in an article discussion as well.
People are in habit of posting without checking the community on a pretty regular basis. :/
Sadly yes, the fediverse is small and smaller communities are dead enough that you practically have to engage /r/all if you want enough content to keep you preoccupied on a day-to-day basis. Though being “brigaded” even happened on Reddit, though less often.
I’m childfree myself and it feels like everyone brigading is proving the point about why we need a community to vent, but sometimes I admit if I see a sublemmy circlejerking too much (any Linux worshipping/big tech hating one) I’m not afraid to leave comments pushing back.
Yes, that's the social aspect of social media.
Yes. It's the fediverse, it's tiny and people are just trying to contribute.
Because reddit sucks? Or did you mean more existentially?
I think they meant "why are you, as someone who enjoys having kids and wouldn't give them up for anything and has no regrets, posting in a community whose entire point is for memes and discussions about not having kids"
Parents feel they and their children belong everywhere and are owed everything. /s kinda
I agree. But unironically. No /s tag.
Yeah that's fair but if we're really being honest it's because reddit sucks.
E. Also it's totally possible to have kids and still think this community is funny af. Dunks are dunks.
That's wonderful for you! I'm glad you're happy with things.
So why exactly are you here, in a childfree community page, telling people in said community about how great children are? That's a little weird, and a bit like someone here going to a school or daycare during pickup and telling all the parents how great not having kids is.
Someone who did this would rightfully be considered an asshole, I’d even call them out for being an asshole. But folks with kids find it perfectly ok to come into childfree spaces to scold folks who don’t want kids. The logic does not compute.
There are even a few posts in this comm that I find cringy, I just keep scrolling, but these folks can’t help themselves.
I wouldn’t give up all my last minute camping trips for kids.
Stop judging people for wanting different things in life.
????
General question that always gets everyone's cankers up.
When you get old, who is taking care of you?
A nursing home.
My one grandma lived with my aunt in her later years and both parties clearly hated it.
But beyond that, holy shit does it seem crazy to have kids as a goddamn retirement plan.
Crazy? It's evil.
Coercion runs so deeply through our ideological past that it's formed toxic sludge of anti-intellectualism. It's also, however, an effective way to castrate a population.
If a new world is to emerge, I sure hope it hurries along.
Bless you. You know you're going to have the money for that when you're old? Have you seen the quality of nursing homes?
What a bizarre piece of financial planning. Do you think kids are less expensive than saving for retirement?
And yes, there are high quality nursing homes. Especially if I'm willing to pay a fraction of what a child costs?
And the fact that he motivation is as a retirement plan, goddamn does that feel selfish and presumptive.
Have you seen the quality of the children, my guy?
Children are no longer a guarantee that youll be taken care of in old age.
I can pull out like 3 different news stories of where a child killed their own senior parents.
Nursing homes arent the best, children arent the best either. Nothing is guaranteed anymore when it comes to care in seniority...well....except you taking care of yourself that is. Heck , now that I think about it even pensions and social security are in a state of limbo in so many countries cause greedy policitcians have to pay off the debts that they have to their billionaire puppeteers lol!
I hate this question. It implies that you should be taking care of your parents when they’re old. It’s not feasible full time anymore. And aren’t we supposed to be independent adults? Shouldn’t they have been ready for retirement? I like to throw a lot of shit that olds say to young’s first. The irony of it all.
You seem to think the average person actually plans for this. They don't and even in 1st world countries that care for their elderly the system is still strained and crumbling.
If you honestly think you'll be rich good on you and best of luck in a retirement home. The vast majority of people are not going to be that lucky.
This screams of the same youth that say they don't need to pay for health insurance because they're healthy. You really think you know what the future is going to bring?
Damn.
And to be clear, no sane adult expects their kids to pick up the slack but statistics show that is what happens worldwide.
Kids are the primary point of care for their aging and elderly parents.
A lot of you are going to have a cold snap of reality when you're old and alone.
I have health insurance. I pay for it with my money so that my money that I worked hard for can take care of me when I need it. I do not expect anyone else to move mountains to "take care" of me when I'm older. I'm not putting that burden on anyone else; when it comes to the point where it's a very real possibility that I'll need someone else's assistance to survive I'll just end it and be done with it.
And yet here you are, expecting exactly that and superciliously judging us for thinking different.
The same people that take care of people that have kids? I guess a counter-question then, do you expect your children to take care of you? Do you expect them to let you move in? Do you think a majority of people take care of their parents?
Guess we could define what "take care of" means exactly cuz ngl most people just stick their parents in a home and visit around the holidays.
People vastly underestimate how much family is involved with end of life care. My parents are mid-70s and mid-80s and not in a home not that we could afford it. My sister and I jiggle all the things life throws at them.
Youth seriously does not realize the amount of appointments let alone care goes into looking after our elders. Bless you all but you're naive as all get out.
I'm sorry, I know this is a serious topic but reading this typo made me snort-laugh. (Please don't fix it!)
Your condescension and selfishness isn't helping your case. Oh and good job ignoring every single one of my questions. Try again sweetie.
If this is your reason for having kids, you shouldn't be getting kids.
Your kids, ig. 🤷🏼♂️
Nope.
ok...but ...why NOT your kids?
What law states that none of YOUR KIDS SPECIFICALLY , yes you [email protected], are allowed to work at a retirement home or in a medical field?
When your parents get old, who's taking care of them?
My sister and I.
Weird, I'm letting professionals do 90% of the work for my parents. Seems odd that you're willing to improvise something that important
This is always the question and the answer is two point.
First, that’s an incredibly selfish reason to have kids. I won’t be taking care of anyone into their old age as payment for being born.
Secondly, I’ll pay a nurse to take care of me with all the money I have from not having kids. It’s crazy what compound interest will do when you’re not broke with 3-4 kids.
The people I pay to do it with the money I saved by not having kids.
Also neither my wife nor I are all that interested in hanging around past the point where someone else has to wipe our asses, so old age care is a pretty minor concern.
Who says I'm gonna want someone taking care of me instead of just letting me die? Have you seen the world? I don't have the positivity to think it'll get better to the point of being worth it in 40-50 years.
I think I might like to have children one day, but I don't think children should be viewed as a selfish investment, existing just to benefit yourself.
In fact, if I do have kids one day, I think I would prefer for them to invest as little as possible in my old age care, so they can instead use their money to improve their own lives.
We build statues of genocidal racists like winston churchill and of convicted pedophiles like karl malone ...
but then we dont build statues of selfless people with common sense like you and the people who have done what you just said and THATS another thing I despise about humanity.
We probably should build statues of selfless people, but I wouldn't put myself in that group. I know I have definitely been selfish at some points in life. Properly selfless people are those who give lots to charity, or volunteer for charity, and so on.
When it comes to wanting good things for your kids, surely that is very common. Many parents expend a lot of energy to try to provide the best lives for their kids, although you do sometimes come across parents who put themselves ahead of their kids.
but do really think youve been as selfish as someone like wiston churchill?
And also the thing is that even those selfless parents are more worthy of having a statue built in their honor AND STILL ....humanjty chooses the most selfish and genocidal people ever to honor time and time and time again
I don't know lots about Churchill, even though I should because I'm British.
Yeah sometimes statues get built of people who aren't too great. Like George Washington, who owned slaves. I guess statues are usually commissioned and paid for by wealthy and powerful people who are trying to propagandise their viewpoints, because if ordinary people believe the propaganda of the powerful, then the powerful get to stay in power.
Also you shouldnt know about churchill eveb if you are British seeing as how he was THIS genocidal 😐 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=plZkO3y9_hY&pp=ygUZYmFkZW1wYW5hZGEgYmVuZ2FsIGZhbWluZQ%3D%3D
Let it be known that I know a dude who has like 5 or 6 other siblings who do not care for or visit any of their parents now that their parents are theyre both seniors. If anything they actually do not give a flying fuck about their parents seeing as how one of them abused them and and the other didnt want to pay child support after he cheated and so he neglected them lol.
So ...they have all these kids...but none of those kids is there for them now lol!
Having kids is no guarantee that theyll be there for you in seniority lol.
Who's getting old?
I mean that's what you want kids for? to be your live in nurse? You dont want them to be successful people who will have better things to do than care for an infirm elderly person??
That's the most selfish thing you could ever do
Breeding a servant to take care of your future needs
It says a lot about you.
I don't want children either but I think it's weird to make your whole personality about not having children.
I agree. Which is why no one here is doing that.
I also think it's weird to make your whole personality about having children but you'd be hard pressed to say that to a parent
Vicarious living is a hell of a drug.
Joining a community because you have a trait in common with them is NOT making that trait your entire personality.
"I joined a cooking grouo where we share recipes so that means I am now locked forever inside of my kitchen ..."
Yeah, not buying it. It's def a thing people wear around like a badge of honor.
I don't seek out communities for stuff I don't care about. That's really strange behavior. I don't go and look for "I don't own a bike" groups. I also don't own a bird, I don't drink white wine, I don't skydive, I don't read romance novels. I don't belong to communities of people who also don't do those things. The point of seeking others is to share what you have in common; when that thing is ONE aspect of your life that you don't like and thusly don't do, what do you have in common with those people? The only reason to join a community of people who don't do a thing is to talk about why you don't like or do that thing.
I've never seen a "dogfree" community. That a childfree one exists is very strange. In the end it's usually people just complaining.
That's mostly because of all the shit people give us when they ask us why we don't have kids yet. They expect us to conform and then treat us like pariahs when we don't. This is just a place where we can vent about that to other people that understand what we go through.
I have kids. Seeing these communities here and on reddit makes me think twice about ever bringing up the kids question with anybody. I know people who are married, and I'm pretty sure they're going to have kids, but it's their business not mine (until they make it mine). I've also known people who couldn't have kids, and so the question, on top of being annoying, may be insensitive.
Me and others are here because it's on c/all, and so that's that. I will say, I'm pleased by the lack of "crotch goblins" in here. Everyone seems mature, for the most part.
Bringing up the kids question is fine. It's kind of the same as asking if you're going on holidays this year.
It's how it's brought up and what follows which is usually what can be frustrating. I personally am happy to have a conversation with anyone about why I don't want children, so long as you're not trying to guilt trip me, tell me I'll regret it, or any of the other common occurrences you see in this thread.
The fact that you would think twice about asking tells me you wouldn't have that problem. The question should be more "are you thinking of having children?" And not "when are you having kids?"
I don't want to excuse all the assholery, but I get the sense that some of the hate is latent backlash acquired from other, more aggressive communities elsewhere that have more of an extreme antinatalist bent.
This place, even though it shares the name with some of those other places, it doesn't seem like that really - like even though I do have a child I feel like I could still comment in good faith here and there as long as I'm engaging respectfully.
Who is asking you to have a kid? your parents?
JFC grow a set and tell them to get bent. Strangers are not bothering you have kids.
Nah, my parents are great people.
Example from last week though:
Random lady from down the street came to invite me to the neighbourhood party, asked if we have kids. I said no. She told me I'd better get right on that because the clock is ticking.
So uhh, yeah, they very much are. You're experiencing different things in a different life, and it doesn't map to the lives of others. This isn't rocket science.
Blatantly false. Strangers regularly ask inappropriate questions about why we don’t have kids. Is she sick? Are you shootin blanks? Weirdo questions for weirdo parents who think it’s their responsibility to evangelize parenting. People need to mind their own business.
There are plenty of communities for people not doing or liking or wanting a thing that society considers normal or common.
For example, carfree, or just gasoline-free. There are meatfree groups. There are communities for the religionfree, or powergrid-free. There are a fuckton of AI-free communities.
Just because they're not named that, and you're not very inventive, doesn't mean they don't exist
Could you be less informed? Your argument compares things that have nothing in common with each other. Every person who has chosen (or not chosen but physically unable but keeping it private) gets shit on for that choice. You actually probably could find a community somewhere for most anyone being bullied and harassed for a specific preference they have. The existence of this community is not strange, it would have always existed on any form of mass communication. The fact that you don't understand people having a backlash to their major life choice constantly being questioned and shit on says that you don't actually think very hard about...much.
Yeah there are no "I don't own dogs" communities, because people who don't own dogs don't get judged and harassed most days for not owning a dog. Pretty easy to see that actually.
I'm sorry.
Sorry that you're an unfuckable incel.
HAW HAW HAW I LOVE LIQUOR
Wow I really didn't think you could sound any less intelligent but I stand corrected
Bro there's entire communities for similar things like people who hate cars. You gonna go on the fuckcars community and say something?
Was this comment your whole personality? According to your logic, it must be.
OP created a whole community to complain about the existence of children and it's literally all they do on this site.
One "what's it to you?" comment is very, very different than the regularly whining OP provides.
This safe space was created to avoid people like you. You have literally the whole world and you choose to infiltrate here. Geez Louise, go play with your kids
Hey look it's another person making sweeping generalizations. Can't possibly raise an eyebrow to "people who have kids are dumb" unless you have kids, I guess?
Not what the post was.
I don't have kids.
I didn't say you did..?
You should. Your pigheadedness and obstinate refusal to consider that people might possibly feel differently about things will serve you well.
Or they created a space for folks like me who do not want children to vent about folks who try to convince us we are wrong to not want children.
I like kids, I just don’t want any of my own. I have been told for years that I’m not a real woman^tm^ because I don’t want kids. It’s pretty nice to have a space where I don’t have my femininity judged based on someone else’s standards. It’s nice to have a space to vent about how we get scolded for not wanting kids.
And it’s not “literally all” OP does. Are you going on their car free posts and telling them they are awful for not wanting a car? What about their anti-AI posts to tell them how they are a bad person for not wanting AI? No, you’re just here judging someone for not wanting children.
Let us vent our frustrations.
Oh yeah I snapped when someone asked me when I'm going to have kids at a get together. I just said never, I'm a guy, I worked in education and that was more than enough for me. I don't want to do that for 18+ years.
I do vent out frustrations on the anti car stuff. I had a roommate who was against cars. And you know how that went? Can you drive my spouse to the doctor? Can you take the rubbish to the dump? Can you get groceries from the next town over for us? Can you pick up a large package at the post office? The list goes on; the irony was getting to me, so you refuse to get a car and then just rely on me instead?
I once explained my position to coworkers, including the fact that I have a spinal fusion, as a reason I don’t want to have children. I even added that if I do change my mind, I can always foster or adopt later in life.
The one gal just goes “well I think all women should have their own child. Adoption isn’t the same as having one of your own”. She said this in front of a coworker who was adopted with his brother into a wonderful loving home after being removed from an abusive one. Like wtf, it was so disgusting of her.
She’s also the one who told me (a woman who loves having a pixie cut) that the only reason she feels like a “real woman” is because she has long hair. Misogyny is a hell of a drug.
Yeah that's a very loaded subject. Adoption is great, it saves people.
As far as the appearance thing, as long as you like it you do you. I prefer anything that makes you happy.
I 100% agree on all parts
She was a very judgmental person in general, I was just really grossed out that she could say that in front of someone she knew had been adopted from an abusive home.
Sounds like your roommate needs to learn to use the local bus system (assuming it exists) or get an Ebike.
Heh the nearest bus was 15 miles away. This was over a decade ago and ebikes weren't much of a thing then.
Your/their reaction here only makes sense without context or considering subtext. This is an old debate but lemme try one more time to make it make sense... When people say "you made a personality out of X" they are really saying "I judge you for being too interested in something that you shouldn't be". That is the subtext.
The context is that human beings get inundated with the messaging that having kids is the only normal thing to do, that you will never be truly happy if you don't, that kids are the best thing in the world ever. Just ask someone who wants kids, but is not fertile, how they feel about it. That must be hell for them, because it's annoying and offensive enough just being in the position of getting constantly told you're wrong for your choice on the matter. Parents shame their children and put pressure on them, workplaces endlessly forgive being late/absent for kids, and governments literally pay you to have kids. Strangers on the internet tell you life is incomplete without them. TV and other media says the same. No matter who you are or where you're at, if you interact with other people and you don't have kids, you're gonna be made to feel weird about it at best. Constantly. Who's going to tell you that kids suck or that it's okay not to have them? Very few people, especially the former.
My understanding is that OP's post like this, and their community, is a reaction to this constant messaging telling you that you're abnormal or unhappy if you don't have kids. I took a peek at the community and OP doesn't even post that much there. They probably have posted less than 1 time for every 1000 times they've gotten the message that they should have kids. I am going to venture a guess that the commenter here did not see 1000 "child free" posts before they decided to fire back and shame OP for making one.
I wouldn't likely have never commented on this community if it weren't for OP's toxicity in the comments in the past. Their attitude goes far beyond "I don't want kids" to "anyone who likes being a parent is a fuckin liar." Similar to how some parents believe that the childless are inherently miserable.
They clearly don't believe that anyone is happier with kids which is....just asinine.
For the record, I don't have nor do I want children. But a lot of my friends are very happy parents building an incredible life for their kids. Every downside the OP harps on is so tiny compared to what they're getting out of it.
Also hilarious that they think kids are the reason people wake up before 8am
Well I'm not seeing them being a jerk to anyone here, but what you describe definitely also sounds explainable by the constant pro-kid information we are force fed. It's why this community exists, it's why this is a thing, it's why this debate happens. If most of society wasn't judging us, exactly the inverse of what you're claiming here, it would seem as out of nowhere and dickish as you suggest. But the vast majority of people will either silently judge you, talk about you behind your back for it, or put pressure on you overtly. I've had coworkers repeatedly tell me I should have kids and I witnessed another coworker finally snap at a different coworker who was telling him he needed to have kids, after what you could tell was years of needling. This is insanely common. It's why there is a backlash to it. The backlash is a tiny fraction as bad as the norm of shaming and judging.
Shouldn’t you be changing a diaper?
Hey man, just because you wear a diaper doesn't mean all of us do. I have never and hope to never change a diaper
That sure is a comeback attempt.
It's funny how antinatalists always assume you have kids when you suggest they chill out about people who choose to have kids
Most people here aren't antinatallist, and pretending they are makes you look even dumber than going to a community about X, and then arguing against X.
Did you check people's comment and posting history to see if it's their "whole personality" or did you just make a snap judgment based on a single meme?
I notice you posted a comment about knitting/crochet, is that your entire personality? What about that time you said Bangladesh was "crazy" for having deaths related to ship scrapping. Is your whole personality about ship breaking?
I think it's weird to pass judgment based on people not wanting kids and being tired of other people telling us how great having kids is and we will regret it.
No joke, I've had people tell me I will regret transitioning because I won't be able to "father children", using that exact phrase.