‘They Will Hang Me’: Putin Fears Defeat in Ukraine, Plans to Send 400,000 More Russians to War
https://www.kyivpost.com/post/83426Open linkView original on lemmy.zipSyndicated from the fediverse. Read and engage on the original instance.
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229 replies
.ml users will continue to support Russia and Putin though...
I am surprised they haven't downvoted this comment yet.
The tankies tend to block lemmy.world.
It looks like there's one who downvoted many people. I'm assuming it just hasn't been seen by them yet. We're also in .world, which is defederated from them, so they won't see it without alts.
.world is not defederated with .ml
Is it not? I know it is from hexbear. I thought .ml was too. It's hard to keep track of all that, especially since I'm from a different instance.
I'm on .world and I see .ml stuff.
lemmygrad.ml is defederated, not lemmy.ml
there are a lot of people that are quite far to the left on this instance, including me, because i want to engage with hexbear and also the normie stuff on the liberal subreddits, but it's not a "tankie" instance like some people want to make it out to be when they get intellectually challenged by people outside of their comfy bubble.
it kinda sucks though, cus of some people that have lost the plot, pretty much everyone here who isn't aggressively anti-china and anti-soviet union and think they have accomplished good things alongside some bad things, gets branded as an evil tankie or in some cases even what they call a "red fascist".
a lot of people, especially from .world, when they see someone from .ml disagree with them on something, they start looking to fulfill their own criteria for a "tankie" and if they fill some of that criteria, they completely dismiss everything you say because you're a "tankie" and that means you're irrational and nothing that you say is worth considering. it really sucks, but it is what it is.
edit: but i'll add that there are non far-left people on this instance too, people that don't engage with the politics but have some other reasons to be here. it's not a political instance, so that is going to be the case.
This is pretty indicative of the issue. The Soviet Union hasn't existed for quite a while now! The people defending modern day authoritarian Russia are no Communists, or Marxist-leninists. They're Authoritarians. They say they're leftist, but they support the oligarchies oppressing the people. That is the furthest thing from leftist.
most of the people you're talking about only support russia critically, as in support their anti-imperialist efforts.
i personally appreciate russia's aid of iran against the united states and israel, alongside their support for cuba in this inhumane blockade by the united states and their fight against the ISIS in the sahel. that's basically all i can appreciate them for. a lot of what they do is messed up
some people are of the opinion that the russian war on ukraine is an anti-imperialist act as ukraine was joining nato, but i disagree with this out of principle as i'm against all aggressive wars. i can see where they're coming from, but i disagree with it.
a lot of people have this misconception that these claimed "tankies" are russia fans in everything they do, but in reality, their support for russia is quite limited. i recommend giving these people a good listen to get immersed in what they really believe in and clear your misconceptions
Defederation works the other way around...
They would be mad if they could read
The average .ml user is even more detached from reality than Putin, Trump or any other politican.
Because theyre not on the front lines.
what part of Ukraine are you currently serving in?
One doesn't have to be in Ukraine to help.
It's okay, nobody thought they weren't shitheels anyway
Busification.
Edit: Lmao. That's all it takes.
Because sending 400 000 more people to die will just make them love him even more.
You are misunderstanding the situation. He is afraid of the people with power, money, influence - those are not the people they will send to die in a pointless war
Fewer folks around with access to rope!
Ah, but more rope available per person.
that's communism ™!
Well... That makes it oddly appropriate then.
or a large open window, or a very energetic volatile device.
one thing putin loves is bombing people, maybe its one of the things he should be aware of.
DIY drones might offer a huge change to politics as usual
Yevgeny Prigozhin was close
I will never understand why he stopped, he was always dead either way
his plane must be unluckly to highly energetic materials on board.
hes sending "undesirables" though(400k non-moscowvites, or st petersberg) its all foreigners, and ethinic russians.
Imagine making the decision of sacrificing hundreds of thousands of additional lives to delay your own inevitable demise caused by your own astronomical fuck up.
Putin is a cowardly bitch.
Honestly it need not even be his demise. There are any number of countries he could flee to, countries without extradition treaties and willing to look the other way for any rich despot looking for a safe harbor. Some small Middle East dictatorship seems a logical choice. But even China would probably offer him refuge. Even North Korea if he's truly desperate. Hell, if he offered to end the war tomorrow, most Western countries would probably be willing to offer Putin amnesty, as painful as that would be. If the choice is between holding Putin accountable and saving another hundred thousand innocent lives, I'll let Putin go.
What he is truly afraid of is losing power. He can keep his life. He can keep at least a lot of his wealth. The one thing he can't flee the country with is his power.
In the modern world, dictators never need fear their personal survival. International pariah dictators all support each other. There's a reason Trump cozies up to despots. The dictators all realize that any of them could be deposed, and that losing power will result flight or death. They're all paranoid and afraid of losing power and their lives. So they all backstop each other and provide what assistance they can. And what even the poorest dictator can offer is protection from extradition.
No self respecting western country would take him The russians would kill him if he went to the US. Whoever takes over will decide if he is returned from an ally. Stalin had much tighter control and he couldnt leave office because of te same fears. He would give up the power if it meant he wouldnt die immediately. They would hang every failure on him, publicly trial him and sentence him the rest of his natural life in a camp.
I don't think you're correct. They may not have extradition treaties, but they also don't want to negatively affect relations with the successor for nothing in return. They aren't going to defend Putin, because most of the world, and especially the Russian successor, would be after him. There's just no benefit. They may not extradite, but they won't host him either (outside of a prison). He'd likely either be held in captivity or executed, if he isn't extradited, or let The Hague take care of him.
Imagine blindly following such an asshole and allowing your own fathers, sons, brothers to blindly become part of the meat grinder because you're too ignorant to fucking rise up and get rid of this dipshit.
We're still talking Putin right? Not Trump's Iran debacle? I suppose it's technically not a meat grinder... yet... we'll see what he does after the midterms.
As much as I hate Trump, he's got nothing on Putin yet. A few dozen American soldiers have died at most, and many suffered, but it's nothing like what's happening with Russian soldiers and infrastructure. People are not being drafted yet either. He's cost a lot of money, but there's not hundreds of thousands of men dying in an invasion.
I did say "yet." Give it time. We all see it coming. Do you?
FWIW, Trump's 6 years older than Putin.
Sure, but psychologically he's 12. Gambling on a man who admittedly has one foot over the grave and the other on a banana peel dropping dead before millions of Americans get a dirt nap in war(s) none of them want to be a part of seems... reckless. I know gambling is more American than mom and apple pie, especially lately, but maybe don't put your children up for collateral to a loan shark.
..delay by less than a year
Im personally in favor of him getting Ghadaffi'd
How about Mussolini'd?
Once upon a time, people knew what to do with authoritarian dictators.
Hung by his feet and dead body beaten by mothers of dead soldiers.
And each member of pussy riot gets to take a bullwhip to his ball sack.
Mason jar in his rectum filled with hornets. Plus the aforementioned hanging upside down, ball smashing things.
last I checked, the main one was in LA and doing crypto, so . . . .
wp:Nadya Tolokonnikova
...
He can get Putined once somebody invents a sufficiently horrible meaning.
"Putin on the Ritz"
Drop him from orbit on to the Ritz London hotel.
It should probably involve polonium tea and an open, high window. For starters.
Can I offer Ceaușescu as an option?
Mussolini didn't get a sword up the fundament. I saw video where Ghadaffi did.
for putin it would likely be a window, a plane accident, a boat accident, a novichik underpants, or an sudden energetically volatile device.
and then put his granddaughter in power, ah la Italy ?
You see, in Italy everyone has the freedom of becoming politicians and since she did nothing wrong she could get in power too, having the same blood of Mussolini do not mean you are bad... Now, i agree with what she did? Hell nah and she can also go fuck herself
Also, most Italians seems to not have learned anything from fascism since— as of now —most parties are far right, right, centre-right and some centre-left, the far left and left ones never get in the parliament too
how'd that wind up for Libya though?
A failed state is always a shit show anyway.
Putin extracted obscene amounts of wealth from Russians, then sent hundreds of thousands of men to their deaths invading a country Putin has a fantasy about controlling for... reasons?
Idk about you, but any way you look at it, things won't improve until regime change. And Putin executed his opposition.
Plus Putin had stated a particular fear of Ghadaffi's execution.
The actual quote:
So this isn't him saying "I think we're gonna lose the war and I'll get hanged" it's more "if I don't completely win the war I may get hanged"
There's no indication that he thinks they're going to be defeated. I think he recognizes that at worst this will result in a pyrrhic victory and they walk away with a large chunk of Ukraine, not Ukraine defeating them and driving the Russians back out.
Yeah. It does show where the political motivations are currently in the war and why it isn't going to be over any time soon. There is no politically acceptable end to the war for either side, so the war of attrition continues.
insert Neil Patrick Harris and the queen bug meme
NPH latest role was being the toymaker, maybe he can do something about putin.
They won't be easily walking away from 1000s of drones.
Dear Russians,
please get on with it.
Sincerely,
A guy who's very tired of this shit
Dear US americans ...
Dear Everyone with an Authoritarian Dipshit Tyrant Infection...
Yeah - until I see George W Bush hanging in The Hague, Americans should probably shut the fuck up about their advice to other countries on how to deal with war criminals.
Not all of us are American.
Many of us opposed Bush and Putin.
IIUC, Bush thought he could deal with Putin.
nobody said everyone was American? Just that Americans shouldn't be lecturing anyone about harboring war criminals, considering how Georgie is painting happily and Condie Rice is still advocating more bloodshed.
So 330 million people should just shut up about Putin because they were born in a country that has bad leaders?
Also, FWIW, there might have been 2 assassination attempt on Trump; and many Americans, including politicians, freely denounce Trump.
I would think that given your own leaders are gleefully committing war crimes, and in theory you have more power in your own country than you do in Russia, you would want to stop your own country from committing its never ending litany of war crimes. Which it has been doing for decades.
Because otherwise it seems your problem isn't war crimes, but who does them.
Yeah, granted: the nation of America is imperialist, warmongering, and has bad government, and a good proportion of Americans are okay with that—but not all Americans.
Not all Americans.
Not all Russians.
and if, say, a German, Icelander, Irish person, Iranian, or a Palestinian says something stupid, I will call wt:thon (þon) out on that regardless on how well behaved and/or victimized þons country is.
Unpopular opinion: We should offer all dictators and their friends a safe retirement package.
Cornered dictators are dangerous. They will always keep escalating because the alternative isn't just their neck on the block, it's all of their friends and family too.
tried that with Napoleon - didnt stick
he was exiled. not exactly chopped.
Yes but that was supposed to be the magnanimous and merciful "safe retirement package" as an alternative to certain death at the hands of an executioner. Exile wasn't a death sentence. Life definitely wouldn't have been easy, but he had servants who joined him in exile to help keep him alive and happy.
Instead, he found a way back to France and the first army that arrived to intercept him immediately put themselves under his command again. That's the danger of allowing warmongering dictators to have their cushy exit strategy - they may not see it as a way out of ultimate punishment, but as a reset button.
I'm less worried about that in this case. Napoleon was one of the greatest generals in human history, he was inspiring. Putin has been failing to conquer the poorest country in Europe for over four years.
With the frankly shocking number of Americans who espouse their unwavering support for Trump, no matter what he says or does, I have very little faith in humanity's collective ability to judge leaders objectively.
Holy whoosh batman.
Gotta chat with air traffic controllers for how much airspace there is between you and this comment chain.
I don't think most of them would do it if they had to give up their power and wealth.
It's not for when things are going well. It's for when their backs are against the wall. They are very heavily incentivtized to fight to the last no matter the cost.
this assumes rational motivation and decision-making.
It's always rational at a personal level. Everyone thinks they're doing the right thing for some combination of themselves, their friends and their allies.
It assumes a self preservation instinct. There's plenty enough examples of escaping dictators that I think it's a fair assumption
Wait, prison isn't a retirement package (of sorts)?
I absolutely agree. What good is retribution, in the face of all the untold future injustices and suffering that could be prevented by allowing dictators and their ilk to simply... stop being dictators?
At the end of the day, "just desserts" really aren't all that they're cracked up to be. Tasty as they may be, they are just desserts. Have a strudel or a pudding instead.
That's exactly why total annihilation of a populace is always a bad idea. Putin sucks, but the world must be ready to integrate the Russian population after everything's done or we'll be back where we started in a few years. Germany taught that lesson, but look at all the historians crying in the corner.
I've been saying this for years. Perceived justice/punishment is not worth the lives of thousands of innocents.
Putin had that posibiblty by not doing what he did, giving this option to them means they have no reason to not try this shit, I disagree firmly with this idea
Hey come on we all went a bit crazy and looked for a new hobby during covid /s
Agree. We all hate Putin, but he is the only person with the power to stop the war.
I don't know man, this sounds good at first but think of how many thousands of lives would be saved if we let a handful of evil people go unpunished.
The most probable "punishment" that Putin is going to get at this rate is dying while sleeping without any pain.
We didn't do such for Hitler and Mussolini.
Besides, Putin can take refuge in China or North Korea, maybe even Belarus, Cuba, or Nicaragua.
Not so sure about that...
Mussolini, sure. Hitler may have died an old man in Argentina.
how about a free prescription for lake city quiet pills with unlimited refills?
I appreciate the sentiment.
I disagree.
They have never hesitated to chop necks on blocks, why shouldn't they be Romanoved out of the gene pool?
Even if they do, it'll come too late.
And it won't serve any purpose. The next guy won't be much different, and everyone thinks "well, I can learn from his mistakes, I'll be smarter, it'll never happen to me", until it does.
I don't know that the next person will be more of the same. It depends on how this all goes down. The last time something similar happened in Russia they ended up replacing an empire with the Soviet Union, which was certainly different.
The last Emperor was fighting a perpetual invasion, and the people eventually had enough and overthrew them. It's very similar to today, with the only difference being that the leader isn't an emperor by title, as much as he wants to be one.
Yeah, that was a revolution. Today, the rich maintain control of the country. The people are largely cowed, and anyone who shows the slightest protest is arrested.
If the people are secretly planning a revolution, I'd be very surprised.
It's not like the empire didn't try to suppress revolutionaries either. Modern influence and control might be more effective though.
"I fucked up and now I can't stop."
I look forward to the day when Putin finally dies, I will pop a bottle of champagne if Putin dies
Imagine if Putin and Trump dies the same day.
Would be a world holiday for centuries to come
Haven't done it in years, but that's "impromptu weekend getaway with the boys" level of celebration for me.
same. and I don't drink. ever.
I'm more of a port dude
Is there a GoFundMe I can contribute to?
in a way
Putin's very existence is proof that prayers don't work.
Thank you.
As they ought to
🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦
Acceptable
Why is he afraid? Why are these assholes who have no problem sending millions of young people to their death always afraid of the consequences?
Nearly as good would be ending the war tomorrow even if he survives.
It's been 1.4 million casualties so far, 400k is just 6-9 months worth at this point.
Ukraine has basically eradicated Wildberries, a main distributor of components and gear used by the Russian army.
Who would have thought outsourcing critical goods distribution to Chinese dropshipping fronts would have negative consequences for your imperial wars of aggression?
It gets even worse because Putin has said that in order to protect critical infrastructure such as these distribution centers, they can request military aid to protect them, but they have to pay for the privilege and once they pay the kremlin gets to decide what to protect, where, when, and how to spend that money at its own discretion.
🤡
Not only that, but if they don't protect their businesses themselves, then the Kremlin will nationalize them and "protect" them.
It's their own fault, then!
his own russians also dying from alcohol abuse, and systemic drug related diseases and ODs. its a double punch
Yeah the demographics were already terrible before the war. Now they are disastrous. Probably a million have left the country too.
Leaders killing several hundred thousand to cover up their mistakes and crimes is pretty common these days.
So much corruption and death to preserve the child&oil economy.
Progress! It used to be millions.
Its all just statistics to them. Our world leaders haven't changed much since Stalin.
Only things that have changed are the social control technologies and the mustaches.
"these days" my boo...
its also to prevent an uprising, the more men he kills the less likely they all can join forces and oust him.
So he gives them guns and hopes they don't use them against him.
putin has another trick, alcohol, if they can keep them perpetually drunk, which they are, they cant form any kind of gathering. plus they all die from liver disease, or alcohol related illnesses too.
Even if all of Donbas is captured, he had relegated all of Russia into irrelevance for generations to come. Russia will become a vassal to China. The future Russians will despise him for it. Putin may not personally care what people think of him, but he certainly cares what will happen to Russia's prestige.
Oh no!
Anyway...
Your lucky if they hang you Putin.
Exactly, won't be much left to hang when they're done with him
Think of how many people (Russian, Ukrainian or otherwise) who have lost a loved one because of this man's selfishness.
How many people out of that group would give their lives to take his?
He might live the rest of his natural lifespan, but he'll probably do most of it behind bulletproof glass and security cordons.
That looks like a vicious circle of authoritarianism. You suppress free media, you suppress anyone who says things you don't like. Your servants only provide you the information which won't make them punished. You end up completely detached from reality which leads your rule to fall eventually
“Adequate communication flows freely between equals. Communication between non-equals is warped and distorted by second-circuit Domination and Submission rituals perpetuating communication jam and a Game Without End.” ― Robert Anton Wilson, Prometheus Rising
More succinctly, '(Full) Communication is only possible between equals'.
A very common downfall for authoritarians, shame about all the destruction beforehand.
Get fucked tyrant
Can we chip in to buy the rope
There's United24 for that, I think
(I am not a financial or geopolitical advisor, make sure to double-check before donating)
Something is coming we do not know about. 😏 The billionaire/ultra wealthy class have been erratic the past couple years, plundering all the wealth they can thinking it matters.
https://climatecasino.substack.com/p/a-hiroshimas-per-second-moment-of
https://news.umich.edu/el-ninos-more-intense-over-last-40-years-than-previous-1000-according-to-u-m-study/
https://science.nasa.gov/earth/explore/el-nino/
I wonder what could be coming that's so bad they're trying to buy their survival by building bunkers.
So are they going to nuke everyone first? No way they can disappear down a bunker right now and not expect their air holes to get plugged up.
One, every single one is in their 70s to 90s so it's a matter of time before there's a string of 'sudden' deaths and they can't accept that so make everyone's trouble.
Two, the apocalypse deadline was pushed ahead. Very likely, very unpredictable, very likely they want it to happen for far lesser reasons than we think.
Three, funni graph number must go up because that's all they still remember and nothing else matters, including their own lives.
I've said this before but once the families of a million dead soldiers realize that thier sons are fertilizer in Ukraine and not just on extended deployment, Putin is going to be hanged.
A large majority of the relatives inside the media bubble of Russia really are not aware of how the war is going.
That's simply...morbidly wild to imagine. I wonder how truly bad their bubble is, like are they literally not allowed to see outside or do they actually have some kind of loyalty and trust that prevents them from looking up other sources?
My source on this is a filipina friend who is a nanny for a Russian family. The family has very recently moved to Dubai and apparently are otherwise fairly educated people. They are not receiving uncensored information and are unlikely to find it inside Russia unless they specifically go looking for it, which is uncomfortable.
Since moving to Dubai and being exposed to the true scale of the war they are worried about either ww3 having already started or the beginning of the next Russian revolution. They moved to Dubai looking for a bit of global safety but unfortunately didn't find it, and they are unwelcome pretty much everywhere else in the world.
That's really sad. I hate how people hold civilians and refugees responsible for the actions of their madmen leaders. There's nothing even wrong if they love their own country.
It's the supremecists and nationalists that deserve all that rage. Bless anybody else who's fortunate enough to escape the crossfire. :(
The Russian people who don't worship the regime or Wagner Group or whatever other bloodthirsty madmen, have been abused so badly, and I think they deserve our compassion.
We are hoping buddy!
I hear not attacking your neighbors does wonders for your longevity.
I mean, I support Ukraine, but I certainly don't trust them to quote him accurately. Doesn't mean that he doesn't think so.
I'm surprised he hasn't already gotten the Julius Caesar treatment to be frank.
That's because he hides in his bunker and every time you see him out in the open that's just one of his many doubles
Which really begs the question - will he ever die?
Will 'Father' just be replaced by his doubles?
sic semper tyrannosaurus
Shouldn't have skipped arm day brah
kinda skipped everything day on this one
bold of him to say within 100 miles of a russian death window
No windows in bunkers.
If it's multistory, all you gotta do is have a nice open stairwell, then you can put a window on that and it'd do just fine for autodefenestration.
If it's a single story, bring a laptop with Windows installed and do your best.
Hahaha. I am officially now going to refer to switching from Windows to Linux as autodefenestration.
and from a 80meter table from anything "poisonious" or volatile explosive.
there were rumours that accurate information does not reach him any more, as he's surrounded by yes men. this, if true, points to him indeed having at least soma accurate info.
hes probably paranoid from all that "speculated" corticosteroid he takes for a "systemic illness". 1 funny side effect of oral steroids is paranoia.
Or he just has suspicions based on how similar failures have gone
Hopefully upside down and then beat him with sticks until candy comes out.
Putiñata.
He would hang himself if only he had the balls to do so
he will be hanged sooner for every additional warmongering action
I hope not. Not with all those windows they could use…
I thought you wrote widows at first. Thoroughly changes the meaning.
Don’t stand between a window and a widow.
That's modern war in a nutshell. Old men sending the young men off to die so the young women have to bang them.
always_has_been.jpg
In ancient times (with some exceptions) the elites preserved their monopoly on organized violence and did most of the fighting themselves. Then they helped themselves to the young women without any regard for what the poor young men thought about it.
it's a book that has his usual problems - he can't satirize fascism well, so he winds up glorifying it - but Pahalniuk's Adjustment Day deals with this quite a bit.
I don't like Putin.
Prime candidate for getting gaddafied
Rather he gets mussolinied
i bet he watches the video of gadaffi everyday.
inshallah they will. when did he achieve that piercing insight? this was pretty obvious outcome about half year deep into the war, well one of a handful but most likely
If only there was something he could have done to prevent this. Oh well.
Hang......himself?
I was thinking more along the lines of not starting an unwinnable war. Perhaps maybe check if you actually have the resources your commanding officers say you have. That sort of thing.
Haha yeah I was just goofballin'. :) (Although at this point, he could solve things that way too.).
You're absolutely right though. How hard is it to just...not start murdering your neighbors? Somehow these high and mighty "leaders" can't seem to contain themselves.
Man would it be funny watching Putin get thrown out of a window
Yay, defenestration!!!
I think it'd look something like this https://youtu.be/JGos7T0RKn8?t=160
Whether he wins or looses he's fucked. Mobilise or don't mobilise, outcome is the same.
Whether he wins or loses we are all fucked. If push comes to shove, he'll use nukes. He has nothing to lose and is in too deep to pull out.
FWIW, Ukraine is not Japan in 1945. We have a good idea what nukes do and how to reduce damage and injury.
Moreover don't the winds in Ukraine tend to blow east?
I wonder what Trump would do if Putin used nukes. If he essentially does nothing, it would incentivize countries to develop WMD, or more WMD.
Bro, when the first nukesof any sort fly, we will enter a new, and last, era of mankind.
You are thinking tactically, direct consequences.
The harm done to the international community will be immediate, merciless, and destroy the global system. Stocks will crash so hard they will never recover.
Hanging would be way too a light sentence for all the Ukrainian war crimes...
It's not "the west" who is going to hang him
He is privately worried that he will get Gadaffi'd
Stop using ellipses incorrectly.
No...
Nobody can create mulch out of it's people as well as Russia. That's a culture that needs a fresh start.
where as Americans make sure to do it overseas and to brown people, much better!
An entire culture that feels so hopeless and sad all the time. My heart hurts for all those people stuck in this endless cycle, and I'm furious that the U.S is trying to imitate it.
I mean hopefully Russians' hatred will overwhelm fear of this despot.
I'll smash them
I'll rip em off
I'll chop it off
Put'in in a stew.
400 000? That's just the next given number. There will be more after the 400k.
he has over ~135-140mil russians, he would sacrifice 30mil men if he could.
Is there a volunteer list of hangmen? I'd like to sign up.
I am fairly certain the line would be ridiculously long. Maybe they can implement a lottery system and use the proceeds to rebuild some of the economy?
That works.
Do it and we buy gas again.
I'm sure the Kyiv Post is a very reliable source of objective reporting on this matter.
Huh, where else have I seen that?
Good point, but both countries conscript and Russia started this war of annexation.
I bet that hanging video would rocket to #1 all time on every porn site, if uploaded.
It might only be beat by the orange menace's death video.
He could have stepped down as a meme legend years ago, but instead ...
I dunno, maybe they will poison you like an innocent couple from middle England you great soulless twat