I'm not sure pro-AI is a right wing stance. I live in a deeply red rural county, and just today, at the board of supervisors meeting, they voted on an immediate moratorium on new data center construction (note: we currently have none). The past weeks have seen a litany of residents speak out against data centers, most of whom I would assume are MAGA or MAGA-adjacent.
I don't think there's any actual right wing anymore. At least not in terms of values or opinions or politics. They're not conservatives or anything of that kind.
It has been completely devoured by induced populism run by facists. It's not really populism, because it's not popular as such and it's not against the elite. It's induced - by the billionaire elite.
These facists need the data centers and AI to push their opinions to gullible voters. Just like Hitler used massive rallies to take advantage of group pressure to make people think they shared his views, the fascist are using the algorithms of social media to make gullible people believe that they have the presented opinion on something that they don't actually give a shit about.
So that's why AI is not really a right wing thing, but still presented as being on that side. If we could find a country in the world where the left wing were the gullible idiots, I'm certain the facists would do the exact same thing there on that side. The facists don't give a shit about politics, because they really do want break democracy. All they need is stupid people, which AI is delivering, and they'll sell it through any political ideology present to them.
Trump is doing just that for them. I wonder if he's even aware of himself being used for this. Obviously he's a massive idiot and a selfish asshole, but sometimes he'll talk about fixing things and doing good stuff, and maybe he even believes he's doing that. However, it always turns out that corruption beats whatever intention he had. It always turns to shit the next day. His staff spends every second day explaining why Trump is an asshole and every second day explaining why Trump wasn't enough of an asshole. It doesn't matter what he says or wants. His only role was to scoop up the gullible idiots.
"Polluting drinkable water"? I haven't heard of that. I thought they "just" wasted potable water for evaporative cooling, where does the water pollution stem from?
Construction of data centers causes instability due to the rumbling of heavy equipment and disturbing of soil over aquifers, which soils the aquifers. This leaves residents near it with a soiled aquifer, which may/may not be fit to drink. The images I've seen are definitely not palatable. Would you drink muddy water?
Then, the data centers add light and sound pollution to ordinary people, and one Grok data center in Tennessee where they're using methane turbines to cool the place, which is causing an increase in asthma.
Basically, the shit is unhealthy as fuck. AND it's chewing through electricity, which adds more into the fossil fuel-climate change problem. If you like Hell on Earth, continue unabated; otherwise, reach some balance and conserve ffs
In actual practice, in the broad strokes, it's not binary, but leans hard toward bad.
There are specific things, it's good at, that are very low token/power
If my 2070 could handle any models with tool use, I could do a lot of it at home.
While I'm doing DevOps work, I keep a window open of what i'm doing, what choices i'm making, i gave it a RO harness to access the stuff i'm working on so it can check me for errors and enumerate security concerns.
When i'm done architecting something, I have it fully document what, where, how, why and add in any security concerns. I then have that stuffed in a repo for my sucessor and any devs that need to understand what I did.
it 95% going to fuck over humanity and pay the oligarchs. The remaining 5% can't justify it's existence, but while it's there, i'm going to use it. They're not paying me more, it can at least remove shit work from my plate while it's available.
Economically it’s only bad because of the capitalist system we live in.
Even ecologically it could also probably be not so bad considering what we could get out of it.
I’m with you on the last bit. I use it a ton at work as a software dev with some devops work
Honestly feels like a firing offense if people in this line of work haven’t incorporated into their workflow at this point. But politically it will fuck is over, once again because it’s owned but a couple of fascist minded dudes
this post makes me feel so good. I've been saying AI is fascism for like six months, and it seems people are starting to finally understand what that actually means.
AI isn't inherently fascist though, and all the criticims in the post can be attributed to capitalism/corporations. You can run AI on a local machine off of solar power to help with simple tasks.
Cmon, I know you know that's a bad faith argument. I could also say that Nazis drink water but drinking water does not make you a nazi, and it hold more weight because AI is a tool, and not a symbol. Driving a car doesn't make you a nazi; driving a Tesla maybe. Not to mention swastikas have different meanings and connotations in different parts of the world.
For someone who is honestly equating using local AI with renewable energy with fascism, this might fall on deaf ears, but it might also offer perspective. A lot of people I run into in my circles are pro Palestine, pro Ukraine, neuro divergent, lgtq+, from all kinds of races and nationalities, and the vast majority find AI quite appealing and enjoy using it. You just compared all those people to Nazis, and are implying they are fascists.
Which reminds me, a lot of them are also vegan. Animal farming is a lot worse for the environment, and what we do to those animals has a lot more parallels to fascism. How many people saying such things about AI and upvoting it are actually vegan, though?
It's the system that produced ai. Sure you can use it to code at home but the thing was made to compete and dominate in a market so the function most people will use it for is to forcefully make and control markets.
The computer and the internet were also invented by the military, among other things. That doesn't mean you are part of, or a supporter of, the military industrial complex. Are you?
I'm so lost. Not only does JJ's response not seem to address what was said by JB, but also I live in a middle-to-right-wing area and almost everybody is anti-datacenter. The unity is actually refreshing, pretty much everybody is talking about going to city counsel meetings to speak up about how we don't want datacenters in our area.
rural people will support left wing issue, vote left wing issue, and then vote for a government that dismantles left wing issue, and then get real mad and vote for a second right wing government because that guy understands how im mad
The amount of people I've seen around here with Trump flags (yes, they're still up for some reason?) and "No Data Centers in insert town name" makes me understand just how little people connect the dots.
They don’t wanna kill art. They want to place themselves between you and everything. While it’s free now, when they get done destroying all the books and shutting down all the independent websites, you’ll pay.
Just like the streaming services shut down physical copies of games, music stores and video rentals.
Until the wealthy kill libraries or poison their stacks with “approved” books. Data hoarding…they’ll make it illegal to share the materials they stole in the first place. They’ll wall up the internet like China, Russia, and NK.
Yep. Get people hooked with free results, then make it a cheap subscription, then jack up the subscription just like the streaming services did, then put ads in (or whatever now-unbundled service it is) and force people to pay even more for what used to be included with the original subscription.
This is a new corporate-made hellscape we’re entering.
There won’t be a “free web” unless someone makes it. Whatever that open source local p2p mesh web I heard about people putting together will probably be the “fediverse” version of the under-net.
Some AI, not all. I think it's fair to make a distinction between the two. There's very useful models with a smaller scope that aren't part of these issues.
Most AI, nearly all. The useful AI used in scientific models is not where all the billions in currency is going, and isn't what techbros are trying to promote.
Wait how are we defining most? I would imagine most models out there aren't flagship models with billions backing them or with data centers. Most models seem to be specific domain small training models made with somewhat insignificant resources in comparison to flagship models.
Its more than that, AI art seems like crack for right-wingers. Something about a lifetime of "the curtains are fucking blue" and "my ignorance is just as valid as your knowledge" applied to media makes art no more than aesthetically pleasing shapes and colors for these people, and AI can do surface level aethetics really well.
I’ve read somewhere that right winger (and by extension billionaires) could see themselves become one of the millionaires class, however they cannot imagine being one day someone in the intelligencia/artists class.
At the time it was for explaining why Bezos bought on week worth of every hotel rooms in Venice and why he was pouring money into the Met Gala.
Bezos is just trying to buy his goblin wife a lifestyle/cultural thing. He tries with Vogue then after that seemed to not work he fucked up wapo for it.
So that’s why he is putting money into the met gala I think.
I’ve read somewhere that right winger (and by extension billionaires) could see themselves become one of the millionaires class, however they cannot imagine being one day someone in the intelligencia/artists class.
I'm not right wing and I'm completely broke mostly for reasons to do with a manipulative ex rather than a lack of income, but it's still far more likely that I'll one day be a millionaire than that I'll one day be an artist. And I suspect that's the same for a LOT of people.
You can luck into a well-paid job and good connections, you can't really luck into a skill you were never born with. They say hard work beats talent, but if you have zero talent, no amount of hard work will suddenly give you a sense of imagination worth a damn. 9 years worth of mandatory art class in school AKA mostly drawing or painting for 2 hours a week and my skills cap at... side view of a bus. An European one, not an American one.
So yes, it's a lot easier to fantasize about kicking off a successful business or just lucking into a high-end executive role at a job than it is to fantasize one day creating something that someone would actually find beautiful or meaningful.
'Be an artist [as a professional job]' and 'be an artist [someone who makes art]' absolutely shouldn't be considered synonymous. Anyone can be an artist. People were artists tens of thousands of years before job specialization was invented. The desire to make art is inherent to the human condition, and that doesn't have to mean 'draw/paint fine art'. Sewing, woodworking, tile/brick laying, garden design, sculpture, photography, fabric dyeing, there are so many artistic ways that people can express themselves that don't have to be inaccessible. And that's just visual art, not even touching performing or writing! You are capable of creative expression in a way that interests you and you enjoy.
I think so as well. And I know lots of people who do arts as a hobby. From playing a music instrument, dancing, singing, to drawing, writing fan fiction. Some people have a lathe and woodworking stuff in the garage. Some take pride in their flowers or have been growing bonsai trees for longer than I live. Travel to placed to snap some more pictures of birds or some old rusty stuff. I heard all of that can be considered art forms and there's many more. I think there's lots of creativity and art somewhere inside of a lot of people. And some desire to express something.
I think the overall sentiment is correct given how the current manifestation of AI is built primarily to build a system of control over human information, with the principle players (Oracle, Amazon, Google) attempting to execute the strategic goal of controlling human intelligence for the purposes of political power.
I also agree that the way the supporting network for AI is being built out is an environmental catastrophe, both in terms of data centers physical ecological footprint and the additional power they consume.
But I fully believe that it's not the technology at fault - rather, its how its being used by the power players that control it.
A data center doesn't have to be an ecological nightmare, for instance. An underground facility powered by above ground wind and solar could provide both the needed power and temperature control, while containing the impacts from sound and machinery. But it's more expensive to build underground than it is to buy off the city council in bumfuck Alabamistan.
Let's look the technology itself. What AI has become is not intelligence or consciousness in any sense of the word. It has become a text based interface with an engine capable of processing large datasets and performing complex operations on the level of a human operator (sometimes).
This in itself is not fascist -but it absolutely has the power to enable fascism in the wrong hands, and all of the principal players in the space have proven themselves amoral (save perhaps Anthropic in certain cases). Conversely, I also believe it has the power to enable democracy in the right hands.
The key word here is power. Power means the power to either disrupt the status quo or build it. AI is a power we've only come to live with for about two years now, and its terrifying because its already in the hands of the wrong people.
But it's not going away, no more than nukes will or guns or anything humanity has found a use for. I think blanket statements like AI = fascism do more harm than good because they give responsibility to a tool, when in fact it should lie with the people who use those tools towards nefarious ends.
In conclusion, I'd like to end with this loving message to any Anonymous who haven't sold out to the feds:
Get off your lazy asses and hack Grok to fuck Elon and the Epstein class up. Y'all wanna be netrunners? This is your motherfucking time to shine.
An underground facility powered by above ground wind and solar could provide both the needed power and temperature control, while containing the impacts from sound and machinery.
A question on this one, how does being underground help with the temperature control? If anything it sounds like that makes cooling harder.
Soil is a great insulator - protected from sun the sheer mass makes it much, much cooler than above ground. Without the additional external heat its much easier to climate conteol.
(Yes it does get hotter the further you go but that's due to proximity to the planet's core...ain't no one putting a dc down that far)
because AI is being mostly supported by the right wing, especially in politics, because they know reality has a liberal bias, and AI is the solution they've been dying for, for decades, to manufacture video evidence of all their imaginary persecution and victimization... and they don't care how much of the worlds water they have to boil away to do it. because fueling their narrative is more important than anything else.
also AI makes people dumber. The less people have to think, and have machines feed them the "correct" answer with no critical thinking, the more stupid and pliable they become.. Which is another reason why the right loves AI.
We already have evidence of human memory capacity decreasing thanks to a scant few decades of search engines. imagine how humanity will look after 30 years of AI making all its choices and doing all the hard thinking
Ya'll need to drop Claude for Qwen. Qwen will happily hack the Heritage Foundation with you and it runs on your graphics card, not a surveillance center.
I'm in a weird spot. I'm a software dev and whether I like it or not I think LLM's have changed the industry, probably forever. Or at least until the next big shift.
LLM's can genuinely write working code and selfishly it does allow me to build POC's in my off time that I never would have before. Working in the industry saps my motivation to build at home.
On the flip side the corporations building them are evil, stealing data to train them, stealing water and forcing customers to pay for grid improvements and just bad for the environment.
Most of the people promoting it whole-heartedly are doing it for the sake of "profit at any cost". There would have been a reasonable way to approach it and incorporate it into our lives. But destroying everything while forcing people to use it for stuff it isn't even good at, while founding it on stealing so much stuff, and having a race to see who can make their AI 1% better than the other AIs at the small cost of burning down the planet exponentially more for each 1% gain... that was not the approach that would get the people behind you.
It's not even AI that is the problem, as always it's people. Selfish people. AI "can" be useful, but not useful enough to justify the cost they forced it to have. That's the main problem, that they stole initially, then the next biggest problem, that they fired so many humans and replaced them with AI, when AI couldn't, and still can't, replace them. The next biggest problem, that they are pursuing it so hard at any cost, and the cost is insane, in so many metrics. Next, that they force people to use it to justify that cost, even when the people are telling them, and the metrics are showing, that using it is making them worse at their job.
But AI -is- technically useful. There are things it can actually help with, quite a bit. Just not as many things as the bosses are trying to pretend it can be good at. And ignoring the costs that can never be justified, the product that exists if thinking about it in a vacuum can be used responsibly, but so many people don't. If you are using AI responsibly as an individual, your job shouldn't feel easier, just less tedious. If AI is making your job easier now, you might be paying for it down the line. Never get AI to do for you, something you couldn't have done on your own. Make sure you know what it did, and if you can't figure out how it came to a conclusion you didn't forsee, you better figure it out. Cuz it might be wrong, and it's important to know if it was, it'll always sound really confident, right or wrong.
But yeah, how useful it is in the few select areas it doesn't suck at, ends up being largely irrelevant in the grand scheme, since it can never pay off what it costed, and is still costing. And that statement is even still true if we limit ourselves to only considering it's literal financial cost.
So, in conclusion, yes. AI is gonna feel very right wing right now. Profit at any cost.
That, and the data centers will be used for mass surveillance — processing the data from all their millions and millions of cameras to identify and track you wherever you go. Up until now it's required so much effort for them to physically track down all of their political enemies but that's not going to be the case for very long.
I said this almost a decade ago, but companies and the government (NSA) were hoovering up data for years. Encrypted and not. Could they analyze all of it at the time? No, so it was generally only looked at for targeted things. But now, you have ways of distilling data on a massive scale and just asking it a question. And once quantum computing comes far enough and can break encryption, all that stored data becomes even more meaningful.
I'm only about 30 % through and probably forgot half of that, but one point that stuck was that AI has parallels to immigrants from the point of fascists. Both are powerful forces that threaten our way of life as we know it. We must keep AI/immigrants in check by whatever means necessary, even if it means we're violating basic human rights or destroy whole ecosystems. There is no time to argue about this because the threat is so severe and we must act now before it is too late.
Fascists also like AI because it discriminates against any deviants. If you are uncommon in any way, it is more likely that AI will not recognize your medical issues, ignore your social needs, etc, which makes life harder for you. Fascists are all about social conformity, so they love this aspect.
Here's a great example of how it handles uncommon medical questions.
Simple question, can trans women get endometriosis? This question is great for this because common sense will say, "no, of course not," and LLMs are nothing but distilled common sense. But common sense is often wrong. Common sense assumes far greater difference of the sexes tham actually exists. Here's what copilot has to say:
Copilot goes for the wisdom of the crowds, and the crowds fail. It even tries to respond thinking I'm talking about trans men rather than trans women.
And yet, here is a case report, clear as day, of a trans woman getting endometriosis.
I think AI aids the American right specifically in their quest to eliminate the role of experts (with their "liberal" educations and "progressive" values such as basic human decency for all, etc.) in discussing and determining policy, especially in regulating industry.
They want to replace protesting scientists, archivists, historians, philosophers, and other "whiny" experts with a machine that appears to make logical arguments and to be an expert, and is much more malleable and agreeable.
You see this on X all the time. Some expert says a thing and some Nazi looks to grok to refute it.
Does it matter that none of this changes reality? Not really to them. Because they aren't looking to be correct, they're looking to exercise power without pushback.
Sounds interesting. Would you recommend the book to someone who is working with Deep Learning and thus understanding the technology pretty good? I am a bit tired of reading from "AI experts" that do not know the technical capabilities and limitations of technology they are addressing.
No, as the title says, this book is about the social aspects of AI and what the new far right movements (hope to) gain from it. It does explain a little what "AI" is and isn't and how it basically works, but it's not really about the technical side of things. I have zero interest in using AI and I feel like I already knew everything the book explained about the technology.
I don't really get what they're going to do with all those data centers, the current models suck as far as output quality and returns on training new ones are diminishing (that's part of the technology, you can't average the internet EVEN MORE and to get a 'better' result)...
...so the best models seem to have been trained well before the majority of data centers were finished and running. Hell the technology isn't that old.
So why all the datacenters? Models can be run on your PC (no connection required)... there's no need for data centers apart from spending whilst the bubble is high.
It must be part of the scam. Stock value bolstered by brick and mortar realestate and the hopes of working for the surveillance state.
Indiscriminate mass killing and destruction is still mass killing and destruction, regardless of any objectives. A regime official or a school for girls? Who cares.
Mass surveillance doesn't need to target terrorists and opponents, the goal is to terrorize the population into submission. The more arbitrary it is, the better.
Disinformation doesn't need to be believable, you just need to flood the public discourse to drown any reality-based opinion.
The models, both open and closed source, are definitely still improving. I guarantee you aren't getting better results from a 2 year old model than a current one.
The datacentres are needed because
the so-called frontier labs have one trick, and it's bruteforcing through the problem with excess compute.
they are in an arms race where success is measured by how many datacentres you have built.
I think that they are going to end up very disappointed when it turns out that it isn't a technology that can be walled off for profit, it's basically just going to be a commodity like email.
I've tried to explain to SO MANY people that the technology itself is not ethereally evil, and it's possible to be both pro-AI and anti-corporate abuse.
LLMs are VERY good at bridging the gap between human language, and computer language. That's it, that's their whole gimmick. They're not oracles, they're not God's, and up until ~5 years ago everyone was fucking thrilled to get a Star Trek computer of their own.
We literally have it now...
We have computers that can generate entire images and programs through voice prompting just like in Star Trek. And EXACTLY like in Star Trek, it gets it wrong, CONSTANTLY. Which is why humans are constantly fixing it and correcting it.
I often think about all the times civilizations are refused technology, and it's explained that they need to earn that tech on their own or else it will be abused and misused.
Well we have that tech. We are abusing and misusing it. But this obsession with claiming that something inherent in the tech itself is unethical or wrong is absolutely bonkers.
It's difficult to put my thoughts on this into words but you've captured a good amount of it.
There is incredible potential to this, but the costs and risks it puts us up against are truly horrific. I don't think I could have ever guessed that we were going to undo all of the decarbonisation effort, which took years, to power these fucking datacentres. I see the benefit in tasks it can already do, just a few short years in, and I wonder how fucked our economies are going to be when every office worker is made redundant. No government knows how to deal with any aspect of this, and it's moving so fast that we're going to be waist deep before the average person even begins to comprehend the scale of what we are facing.
They're building them out expecting demand to make their whole effort worth it. They genuinely expect everybody is going to be using these things near constantly especially at their jobs and perhaps multiple instances at once for multiple conversations.
They genuinely expect everybody is going to be using these things near constantly
And if everybody doesn't use AI, they'll force it on us. Integrate it too deeply into society to be able to remove it without damaging something vital, so they'll get yet another government bailout.
Bingo! Thats where I was going. I still don't understand why we cant just line them up in the arctic circle. We have fiber optics and cooling up there won't be an issue.
So it take a few more milliseconds to get a response. I'm ok with that.
Pay better than the oil fields and people will line up for the gig.
Let me rephrase: labeling machine learning on a massive scale with insane amount of damage to society and environment as "AI" is a trait almoat exclusively seen in the same people who promote racist, classist, sexist or otherwise divisive ideas.
So yes, AI-bros == fascists is a valid takeaway, accepting that as all generalizations, it is not 100% accurate.
It does capture however the essence of people promoting LLMs.
Quietly learning to run local LLMs on old gaming PCs is the opposite of Facisim. As usualz nuance is lost on most, but those who don't get caught up in the pendulum swing of public opinion could stand to expand their knowledge on the subject.
Spanish fascism was around in WWII, they wrote their manifesto for their specific approach to it, and now we are dealing with American fascism. Those are two different and unique systems of fascism. You understand that politics and language change and evolve, right? There are multiple different faces and approaches to fascism, just like any other political concept. That version of fascism failed, this is the current iteration. Think of it like an OS, every version of windows is still windows, but windows XP and windows Vista aren’t the same conversation.
Data centers can introduce several types of pollutants into water systems. These pollutants fall into three main categories.
Biocides: chemicals to prevent the growth of bacteria, mold, and algae in the cooling system, and the most common pollutant in data center water systems.
Corrosion inhibitors: chemicals that prevent corrosion within cooling systems
Heavy metals: metals, such as copper zinc, and lead, that can enter the water in trace amounts when metal components degrade.
Additionally, fine salt dust that drifts in the atmosphere from evaporative cooling towers can settle on nearby soils and surface waters, potentially harming vegetation and increasing salinity in aquatic systems. This concern is especially pressing given that salt pollution is already a growing issue in certain water supply reservoirs, including the Occoquan.
None of this even includes the water from the additional electricity generation required to power the data centers
The only thing with "fascism" there is "technofascists", which is just an umbrella term for people who heavily rely on tech to spread far-right ideologies. I don't like how loosely the term "fascism" is used on the internet, but this is far from the worst cases.
Wide swaths of the right are against these data centers too. Dem politicians are for them too.
This kind of sniping misses the point. It's the political parties that are the problem, the sheep of both parties, and the cynical cunts that think they will benefit from subordinating the common good to big money, are just a symptom of a corrupt establishment, and corrupt culture.
We need popular alternatives, but most of you still trust the controlled opposition. Despite, you know, things.
With respect, I think you have missed the point. The argument being made is that AI* is inherently pro-right-wing and/or pro-fascist. The purpose of the argument is convince people who are against those politics to also be against AI. (In theory. This is an echo chamber, after all.)
Are some right-wingers against data centres? Sure. Most of them based on NIMBYism, I imagine, though some of a more libertarian bent may be opposed on grounds of intellectual property theft or the danger of widespread surveillance. That does not, by itself, detract from the argument.
Are some Democrat politicians for data centres? Sure. Many Democrat politicians are right wing by any sensible standard. (Most? I'm not sure, I'm not USian. Most senior ones, certainly.) That doesn't detract from the argument itself.
These things are illustrative of the problem of both political parties being captured, but that is still a separate problem.
* What is colloquially referred to as AI, not necessarily all applications of machine learning.
The establishment of both parties is all in on llm's and data centers. It's not left versus right, it's working class versus the investor class and oligarchy, is my point.
Democrat ruled areas and states are allowing data centers everywhere red controlled ones are, they are approving them in secret, they are suppressing dissent and lying about harms, and so forth.
No one wants data centers next to them. No one will want llm's after their harm becomes apparent. No one outside of the aforementioned establishment, their sheep, and their cynical backers, which are a minority of this country.
The democrats do not represent the left, that is laughable. To think the party establishment represents the voters that vote for them, doesn't speak well to your understanding.
30% of each part are sheep, maybe 50 percent between the sheep and self interested dickheads that think they will benefit.
The rest hate all the politicians for the most part, how do you not get this? You clearly listen to the wrong people in your echo chambers.
You clearly didn't read what you are responding to or you would've seen that is what I fucking said.
Both parties are all in on data centers. Fuck your Democrats, it's your fault we are here if you still trust them. Jesus Christ no wonder we are losing with the "left," openly shilling for the democratic establishment, as if everyone outside the sheep didn't know better by now.
If lying about democrats not sucking worked, kamala would be president right now. How many times before you learn?
If you consider raging on my printer for two hours a bad day, then yes. Fucking piece of shit, won't hook up to computer, won't print from flash drive, the buttons on it take 1 minute to register. Brother is a shit company, every single printer executive should be executed, no exceptions. With due process.
Oh yeah, you’re going through it. Been there, printers are hell. Drivers and firmware work straightforward with literally everything else you plug into a computer, what the fuck is wrong with the people who make printers? Fuck that shit.
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They're even playing pro data center propaganda ads lying about them bringing down utility prices. It's insane.
I'm not sure pro-AI is a right wing stance. I live in a deeply red rural county, and just today, at the board of supervisors meeting, they voted on an immediate moratorium on new data center construction (note: we currently have none). The past weeks have seen a litany of residents speak out against data centers, most of whom I would assume are MAGA or MAGA-adjacent.
It's anti-life which could easily be confused with an alt right viewpoint, as there is considerable overlap
I don't think there's any actual right wing anymore. At least not in terms of values or opinions or politics. They're not conservatives or anything of that kind.
It has been completely devoured by induced populism run by facists. It's not really populism, because it's not popular as such and it's not against the elite. It's induced - by the billionaire elite.
These facists need the data centers and AI to push their opinions to gullible voters. Just like Hitler used massive rallies to take advantage of group pressure to make people think they shared his views, the fascist are using the algorithms of social media to make gullible people believe that they have the presented opinion on something that they don't actually give a shit about.
So that's why AI is not really a right wing thing, but still presented as being on that side. If we could find a country in the world where the left wing were the gullible idiots, I'm certain the facists would do the exact same thing there on that side. The facists don't give a shit about politics, because they really do want break democracy. All they need is stupid people, which AI is delivering, and they'll sell it through any political ideology present to them.
Trump is doing just that for them. I wonder if he's even aware of himself being used for this. Obviously he's a massive idiot and a selfish asshole, but sometimes he'll talk about fixing things and doing good stuff, and maybe he even believes he's doing that. However, it always turns out that corruption beats whatever intention he had. It always turns to shit the next day. His staff spends every second day explaining why Trump is an asshole and every second day explaining why Trump wasn't enough of an asshole. It doesn't matter what he says or wants. His only role was to scoop up the gullible idiots.
"Polluting drinkable water"? I haven't heard of that. I thought they "just" wasted potable water for evaporative cooling, where does the water pollution stem from?
Construction of data centers causes instability due to the rumbling of heavy equipment and disturbing of soil over aquifers, which soils the aquifers. This leaves residents near it with a soiled aquifer, which may/may not be fit to drink. The images I've seen are definitely not palatable. Would you drink muddy water?
Then, the data centers add light and sound pollution to ordinary people, and one Grok data center in Tennessee where they're using methane turbines to cool the place, which is causing an increase in asthma.
Basically, the shit is unhealthy as fuck. AND it's chewing through electricity, which adds more into the fossil fuel-climate change problem. If you like Hell on Earth, continue unabated; otherwise, reach some balance and conserve ffs
Methane turbines for power, not cooling.
Ecologically, it's binary: bad
Economically, it's binary: bad
In actual practice, in the broad strokes, it's not binary, but leans hard toward bad.
There are specific things, it's good at, that are very low token/power
If my 2070 could handle any models with tool use, I could do a lot of it at home.
While I'm doing DevOps work, I keep a window open of what i'm doing, what choices i'm making, i gave it a RO harness to access the stuff i'm working on so it can check me for errors and enumerate security concerns.
When i'm done architecting something, I have it fully document what, where, how, why and add in any security concerns. I then have that stuffed in a repo for my sucessor and any devs that need to understand what I did.
it 95% going to fuck over humanity and pay the oligarchs. The remaining 5% can't justify it's existence, but while it's there, i'm going to use it. They're not paying me more, it can at least remove shit work from my plate while it's available.
Economically it’s only bad because of the capitalist system we live in.
Even ecologically it could also probably be not so bad considering what we could get out of it.
I’m with you on the last bit. I use it a ton at work as a software dev with some devops work
Honestly feels like a firing offense if people in this line of work haven’t incorporated into their workflow at this point. But politically it will fuck is over, once again because it’s owned but a couple of fascist minded dudes
The arts skew against fascism so undermining artists empowers fascists.
this post makes me feel so good. I've been saying AI is fascism for like six months, and it seems people are starting to finally understand what that actually means.
AI isn't inherently fascist though, and all the criticims in the post can be attributed to capitalism/corporations. You can run AI on a local machine off of solar power to help with simple tasks.
Swastikas aren't inherently Nazi, but when you see one you automatically think of Nazis.
Cmon, I know you know that's a bad faith argument. I could also say that Nazis drink water but drinking water does not make you a nazi, and it hold more weight because AI is a tool, and not a symbol. Driving a car doesn't make you a nazi; driving a Tesla maybe. Not to mention swastikas have different meanings and connotations in different parts of the world.
For someone who is honestly equating using local AI with renewable energy with fascism, this might fall on deaf ears, but it might also offer perspective. A lot of people I run into in my circles are pro Palestine, pro Ukraine, neuro divergent, lgtq+, from all kinds of races and nationalities, and the vast majority find AI quite appealing and enjoy using it. You just compared all those people to Nazis, and are implying they are fascists.
Which reminds me, a lot of them are also vegan. Animal farming is a lot worse for the environment, and what we do to those animals has a lot more parallels to fascism. How many people saying such things about AI and upvoting it are actually vegan, though?
It's the system that produced ai. Sure you can use it to code at home but the thing was made to compete and dominate in a market so the function most people will use it for is to forcefully make and control markets.
The computer and the internet were also invented by the military, among other things. That doesn't mean you are part of, or a supporter of, the military industrial complex. Are you?
you always focus on "kill art", that's not what AI is
Can it make images, short animation clips, songs? Yeah, but that's not what people are using it for.
You guys really need to understand that or else nobody is going to listen to you
Anyone who thinks AI's big selling feature is that it can do art does not understand how people are using AI
Well, if you consider programming an art, it’s fucking destroying art.
They're burning books so that "truth" can be only obtained from a machine they control.
Nothing fascist about that.
Yeah, no one paying for a blue checkmark has any leg to stand on.
I'm so lost. Not only does JJ's response not seem to address what was said by JB, but also I live in a middle-to-right-wing area and almost everybody is anti-datacenter. The unity is actually refreshing, pretty much everybody is talking about going to city counsel meetings to speak up about how we don't want datacenters in our area.
rural people will support left wing issue, vote left wing issue, and then vote for a government that dismantles left wing issue, and then get real mad and vote for a second right wing government because that guy understands how im mad
The amount of people I've seen around here with Trump flags (yes, they're still up for some reason?) and "No Data Centers in
insert town name" makes me understand just how little people connect the dots.imagine the dumbest person you know, and I mean brain damage levels of incompetence. half a given population is dumber than them.
They don’t wanna kill art. They want to place themselves between you and everything. While it’s free now, when they get done destroying all the books and shutting down all the independent websites, you’ll pay.
Just like the streaming services shut down physical copies of games, music stores and video rentals.
You’ll pay.
Data Hoarders and Libraries will save us
Until the wealthy kill libraries or poison their stacks with “approved” books. Data hoarding…they’ll make it illegal to share the materials they stole in the first place. They’ll wall up the internet like China, Russia, and NK.
People in Russia and China can easily get around the censorship if they wish to via VPNs or Tor. NK has the flash drives of info that get brought in.
You can kill a person, but never the idea.
But nonetheless they built the wall.
I will not.
https://youtu.be/fYgmHoFOsrE?is=txHcmGOIOgnwFadg
The first hit is always free.
Yep. Get people hooked with free results, then make it a cheap subscription, then jack up the subscription just like the streaming services did, then put ads in (or whatever now-unbundled service it is) and force people to pay even more for what used to be included with the original subscription.
This is a new corporate-made hellscape we’re entering.
You won't have a choice, because the free web will be larded up with incomprehensible, AI-generated slop.
There won’t be a “free web” unless someone makes it. Whatever that open source local p2p mesh web I heard about people putting together will probably be the “fediverse” version of the under-net.
Some AI, not all. I think it's fair to make a distinction between the two. There's very useful models with a smaller scope that aren't part of these issues.
Most AI, nearly all. The useful AI used in scientific models is not where all the billions in currency is going, and isn't what techbros are trying to promote.
Wait how are we defining most? I would imagine most models out there aren't flagship models with billions backing them or with data centers. Most models seem to be specific domain small training models made with somewhat insignificant resources in comparison to flagship models.
Its more than that, AI art seems like crack for right-wingers. Something about a lifetime of "the curtains are fucking blue" and "my ignorance is just as valid as your knowledge" applied to media makes art no more than aesthetically pleasing shapes and colors for these people, and AI can do surface level aethetics really well.
I’ve read somewhere that right winger (and by extension billionaires) could see themselves become one of the millionaires class, however they cannot imagine being one day someone in the intelligencia/artists class.
At the time it was for explaining why Bezos bought on week worth of every hotel rooms in Venice and why he was pouring money into the Met Gala.
I think it fit for AI art
Bezos is just trying to buy his goblin wife a lifestyle/cultural thing. He tries with Vogue then after that seemed to not work he fucked up wapo for it.
So that’s why he is putting money into the met gala I think.
I'm not right wing and I'm completely broke mostly for reasons to do with a manipulative ex rather than a lack of income, but it's still far more likely that I'll one day be a millionaire than that I'll one day be an artist. And I suspect that's the same for a LOT of people.
You can luck into a well-paid job and good connections, you can't really luck into a skill you were never born with. They say hard work beats talent, but if you have zero talent, no amount of hard work will suddenly give you a sense of imagination worth a damn. 9 years worth of mandatory art class in school AKA mostly drawing or painting for 2 hours a week and my skills cap at... side view of a bus. An European one, not an American one.
So yes, it's a lot easier to fantasize about kicking off a successful business or just lucking into a high-end executive role at a job than it is to fantasize one day creating something that someone would actually find beautiful or meaningful.
'Be an artist [as a professional job]' and 'be an artist [someone who makes art]' absolutely shouldn't be considered synonymous. Anyone can be an artist. People were artists tens of thousands of years before job specialization was invented. The desire to make art is inherent to the human condition, and that doesn't have to mean 'draw/paint fine art'. Sewing, woodworking, tile/brick laying, garden design, sculpture, photography, fabric dyeing, there are so many artistic ways that people can express themselves that don't have to be inaccessible. And that's just visual art, not even touching performing or writing! You are capable of creative expression in a way that interests you and you enjoy.
I think so as well. And I know lots of people who do arts as a hobby. From playing a music instrument, dancing, singing, to drawing, writing fan fiction. Some people have a lathe and woodworking stuff in the garage. Some take pride in their flowers or have been growing bonsai trees for longer than I live. Travel to placed to snap some more pictures of birds or some old rusty stuff. I heard all of that can be considered art forms and there's many more. I think there's lots of creativity and art somewhere inside of a lot of people. And some desire to express something.
I don’t know why people go straight to drawing. I’m an artist (fulltime) and i can’t draw.
I think the overall sentiment is correct given how the current manifestation of AI is built primarily to build a system of control over human information, with the principle players (Oracle, Amazon, Google) attempting to execute the strategic goal of controlling human intelligence for the purposes of political power.
I also agree that the way the supporting network for AI is being built out is an environmental catastrophe, both in terms of data centers physical ecological footprint and the additional power they consume.
But I fully believe that it's not the technology at fault - rather, its how its being used by the power players that control it.
A data center doesn't have to be an ecological nightmare, for instance. An underground facility powered by above ground wind and solar could provide both the needed power and temperature control, while containing the impacts from sound and machinery. But it's more expensive to build underground than it is to buy off the city council in bumfuck Alabamistan.
Let's look the technology itself. What AI has become is not intelligence or consciousness in any sense of the word. It has become a text based interface with an engine capable of processing large datasets and performing complex operations on the level of a human operator (sometimes).
This in itself is not fascist -but it absolutely has the power to enable fascism in the wrong hands, and all of the principal players in the space have proven themselves amoral (save perhaps Anthropic in certain cases). Conversely, I also believe it has the power to enable democracy in the right hands.
The key word here is power. Power means the power to either disrupt the status quo or build it. AI is a power we've only come to live with for about two years now, and its terrifying because its already in the hands of the wrong people.
But it's not going away, no more than nukes will or guns or anything humanity has found a use for. I think blanket statements like AI = fascism do more harm than good because they give responsibility to a tool, when in fact it should lie with the people who use those tools towards nefarious ends.
In conclusion, I'd like to end with this loving message to any Anonymous who haven't sold out to the feds:
Get off your lazy asses and hack Grok to fuck Elon and the Epstein class up. Y'all wanna be netrunners? This is your motherfucking time to shine.
A question on this one, how does being underground help with the temperature control? If anything it sounds like that makes cooling harder.
What makes you think it's harder to keep cool?
Soil is a great insulator - protected from sun the sheer mass makes it much, much cooler than above ground. Without the additional external heat its much easier to climate conteol.
(Yes it does get hotter the further you go but that's due to proximity to the planet's core...ain't no one putting a dc down that far)
It's drastically cooler underground until you get really deep in the mantle, and most importantly, the temperature is stable. No weather fluctuations.
This is why wine caves were invented before refrigeration - consistently cool, stable temperatures.
because AI is being mostly supported by the right wing, especially in politics, because they know reality has a liberal bias, and AI is the solution they've been dying for, for decades, to manufacture video evidence of all their imaginary persecution and victimization... and they don't care how much of the worlds water they have to boil away to do it. because fueling their narrative is more important than anything else.
also AI makes people dumber. The less people have to think, and have machines feed them the "correct" answer with no critical thinking, the more stupid and pliable they become.. Which is another reason why the right loves AI.
We already have evidence of human memory capacity decreasing thanks to a scant few decades of search engines. imagine how humanity will look after 30 years of AI making all its choices and doing all the hard thinking
Obey the computer. The computer is your friend!
The Computer is Good, the Penis is Evil.
Ya'll need to drop Claude for Qwen. Qwen will happily hack the Heritage Foundation with you and it runs on your graphics card, not a surveillance center.
I'm in a weird spot. I'm a software dev and whether I like it or not I think LLM's have changed the industry, probably forever. Or at least until the next big shift.
LLM's can genuinely write working code and selfishly it does allow me to build POC's in my off time that I never would have before. Working in the industry saps my motivation to build at home.
On the flip side the corporations building them are evil, stealing data to train them, stealing water and forcing customers to pay for grid improvements and just bad for the environment.
It's a shitty time to be alive
Most of the people promoting it whole-heartedly are doing it for the sake of "profit at any cost". There would have been a reasonable way to approach it and incorporate it into our lives. But destroying everything while forcing people to use it for stuff it isn't even good at, while founding it on stealing so much stuff, and having a race to see who can make their AI 1% better than the other AIs at the small cost of burning down the planet exponentially more for each 1% gain... that was not the approach that would get the people behind you.
It's not even AI that is the problem, as always it's people. Selfish people. AI "can" be useful, but not useful enough to justify the cost they forced it to have. That's the main problem, that they stole initially, then the next biggest problem, that they fired so many humans and replaced them with AI, when AI couldn't, and still can't, replace them. The next biggest problem, that they are pursuing it so hard at any cost, and the cost is insane, in so many metrics. Next, that they force people to use it to justify that cost, even when the people are telling them, and the metrics are showing, that using it is making them worse at their job.
But AI -is- technically useful. There are things it can actually help with, quite a bit. Just not as many things as the bosses are trying to pretend it can be good at. And ignoring the costs that can never be justified, the product that exists if thinking about it in a vacuum can be used responsibly, but so many people don't. If you are using AI responsibly as an individual, your job shouldn't feel easier, just less tedious. If AI is making your job easier now, you might be paying for it down the line. Never get AI to do for you, something you couldn't have done on your own. Make sure you know what it did, and if you can't figure out how it came to a conclusion you didn't forsee, you better figure it out. Cuz it might be wrong, and it's important to know if it was, it'll always sound really confident, right or wrong.
But yeah, how useful it is in the few select areas it doesn't suck at, ends up being largely irrelevant in the grand scheme, since it can never pay off what it costed, and is still costing. And that statement is even still true if we limit ourselves to only considering it's literal financial cost.
So, in conclusion, yes. AI is gonna feel very right wing right now. Profit at any cost.
That, and the data centers will be used for mass surveillance — processing the data from all their millions and millions of cameras to identify and track you wherever you go. Up until now it's required so much effort for them to physically track down all of their political enemies but that's not going to be the case for very long.
That, and AIs are the privatization and commodification of human knowledge.
They fed them the internet, then made it harder to find anything on it without going through them.
Now they are feeding them books, including rare copies, then destroying the books.
Seriously the internet is basically unusable to me without having some kind of AI sift through it.
I use UBlock to block the slop frames andbstart looking for stuff on the later pages now.
I said this almost a decade ago, but companies and the government (NSA) were hoovering up data for years. Encrypted and not. Could they analyze all of it at the time? No, so it was generally only looked at for targeted things. But now, you have ways of distilling data on a massive scale and just asking it a question. And once quantum computing comes far enough and can break encryption, all that stored data becomes even more meaningful.
That's a mighty fine crystal ball you've got there. Get me some lottery numbers, okay?
I'm currently reading AI and the New Fascism by Rainer Mühlhoff which is exactly about this.
I'm only about 30 % through and probably forgot half of that, but one point that stuck was that AI has parallels to immigrants from the point of fascists. Both are powerful forces that threaten our way of life as we know it. We must keep AI/immigrants in check by whatever means necessary, even if it means we're violating basic human rights or destroy whole ecosystems. There is no time to argue about this because the threat is so severe and we must act now before it is too late.
Fascists also like AI because it discriminates against any deviants. If you are uncommon in any way, it is more likely that AI will not recognize your medical issues, ignore your social needs, etc, which makes life harder for you. Fascists are all about social conformity, so they love this aspect.
Here's a great example of how it handles uncommon medical questions.
Simple question, can trans women get endometriosis? This question is great for this because common sense will say, "no, of course not," and LLMs are nothing but distilled common sense. But common sense is often wrong. Common sense assumes far greater difference of the sexes tham actually exists. Here's what copilot has to say:
Copilot goes for the wisdom of the crowds, and the crowds fail. It even tries to respond thinking I'm talking about trans men rather than trans women.
And yet, here is a case report, clear as day, of a trans woman getting endometriosis.
https://academic.oup.com/jes/article/7/Supplement_1/bvad114.2078/7291745
And this phenomenon has also been observed in cis men undergoing estrogen therapy for prostate cancer.
I admit this isn't a common thing, as far as we know, among trans women. But the AI flat out says the possible is impossible.
I think AI aids the American right specifically in their quest to eliminate the role of experts (with their "liberal" educations and "progressive" values such as basic human decency for all, etc.) in discussing and determining policy, especially in regulating industry.
They want to replace protesting scientists, archivists, historians, philosophers, and other "whiny" experts with a machine that appears to make logical arguments and to be an expert, and is much more malleable and agreeable.
You see this on X all the time. Some expert says a thing and some Nazi looks to grok to refute it.
Does it matter that none of this changes reality? Not really to them. Because they aren't looking to be correct, they're looking to exercise power without pushback.
Its a way for a minority of wealth/supremist/zealot/etc. to leverage <20% of the people into an overwhelming number of enforcers and overseers.
Every wealthy schmuck will try to become a warlord until they crash out.
Sounds interesting. Would you recommend the book to someone who is working with Deep Learning and thus understanding the technology pretty good? I am a bit tired of reading from "AI experts" that do not know the technical capabilities and limitations of technology they are addressing.
No, as the title says, this book is about the social aspects of AI and what the new far right movements (hope to) gain from it. It does explain a little what "AI" is and isn't and how it basically works, but it's not really about the technical side of things. I have zero interest in using AI and I feel like I already knew everything the book explained about the technology.
Thanks for sharing your impressions!
I don't really get what they're going to do with all those data centers, the current models suck as far as output quality and returns on training new ones are diminishing (that's part of the technology, you can't average the internet EVEN MORE and to get a 'better' result)...
...so the best models seem to have been trained well before the majority of data centers were finished and running. Hell the technology isn't that old.
So why all the datacenters? Models can be run on your PC (no connection required)... there's no need for data centers apart from spending whilst the bubble is high.
It must be part of the scam. Stock value bolstered by brick and mortar realestate and the hopes of working for the surveillance state.
AI is best at destructive things:
Disinformation
Weapons guidance and mass killing
Mass surveillance
Fascists need those things for the future they have in mind for us.
No, the problem is worse than that - it's not very good at ANY of those thing.
That's the neat part. It doesn't even need to be.
Indiscriminate mass killing and destruction is still mass killing and destruction, regardless of any objectives. A regime official or a school for girls? Who cares.
Mass surveillance doesn't need to target terrorists and opponents, the goal is to terrorize the population into submission. The more arbitrary it is, the better.
Disinformation doesn't need to be believable, you just need to flood the public discourse to drown any reality-based opinion.
The models, both open and closed source, are definitely still improving. I guarantee you aren't getting better results from a 2 year old model than a current one.
The datacentres are needed because
the so-called frontier labs have one trick, and it's bruteforcing through the problem with excess compute.
they are in an arms race where success is measured by how many datacentres you have built.
I think that they are going to end up very disappointed when it turns out that it isn't a technology that can be walled off for profit, it's basically just going to be a commodity like email.
I've tried to explain to SO MANY people that the technology itself is not ethereally evil, and it's possible to be both pro-AI and anti-corporate abuse.
LLMs are VERY good at bridging the gap between human language, and computer language. That's it, that's their whole gimmick. They're not oracles, they're not God's, and up until ~5 years ago everyone was fucking thrilled to get a Star Trek computer of their own.
We literally have it now...
We have computers that can generate entire images and programs through voice prompting just like in Star Trek. And EXACTLY like in Star Trek, it gets it wrong, CONSTANTLY. Which is why humans are constantly fixing it and correcting it.
I often think about all the times civilizations are refused technology, and it's explained that they need to earn that tech on their own or else it will be abused and misused.
Well we have that tech. We are abusing and misusing it. But this obsession with claiming that something inherent in the tech itself is unethical or wrong is absolutely bonkers.
It's difficult to put my thoughts on this into words but you've captured a good amount of it.
There is incredible potential to this, but the costs and risks it puts us up against are truly horrific. I don't think I could have ever guessed that we were going to undo all of the decarbonisation effort, which took years, to power these fucking datacentres. I see the benefit in tasks it can already do, just a few short years in, and I wonder how fucked our economies are going to be when every office worker is made redundant. No government knows how to deal with any aspect of this, and it's moving so fast that we're going to be waist deep before the average person even begins to comprehend the scale of what we are facing.
They're building them out expecting demand to make their whole effort worth it. They genuinely expect everybody is going to be using these things near constantly especially at their jobs and perhaps multiple instances at once for multiple conversations.
And if everybody doesn't use AI, they'll force it on us. Integrate it too deeply into society to be able to remove it without damaging something vital, so they'll get yet another government bailout.
Just another useful political wedge.
Anything to avoid saying neoliberalism is bad lol
They Hated Him Because He Told Them the Truth
They are great tools for thought control, as well.
Because of project 2025 and twitter gooners
Lowell, Mass is low income? They are being built everywhere, except Martha Vineyard.
Everywhere is a low income area from the perspective of the people with all the money.
Bingo! Thats where I was going. I still don't understand why we cant just line them up in the arctic circle. We have fiber optics and cooling up there won't be an issue.
So it take a few more milliseconds to get a response. I'm ok with that.
Pay better than the oil fields and people will line up for the gig.
No, but most New Englanders certainly act that way! HAH!
Are republican voters not all in low income areas?
No, they're all over.
At this point everything is fascism. This take is beyond comedy, I'm saving this for future reference
Let me rephrase: labeling machine learning on a massive scale with insane amount of damage to society and environment as "AI" is a trait almoat exclusively seen in the same people who promote racist, classist, sexist or otherwise divisive ideas. So yes, AI-bros == fascists is a valid takeaway, accepting that as all generalizations, it is not 100% accurate. It does capture however the essence of people promoting LLMs.
Quietly learning to run local LLMs on old gaming PCs is the opposite of Facisim. As usualz nuance is lost on most, but those who don't get caught up in the pendulum swing of public opinion could stand to expand their knowledge on the subject.
[x] you did not read / understand anything in my message besides AI-bros == fascists and got triggered
[x] you assumed I'm arguing with your entire premise when it's just a comment in a chain of comments.
No it doesn't. It has nothing to do with fascist ideology during WW2 era.
No one was talking about WW2.
If you talk fascism you talk about ww2 and before by default
No, you’re thinking of the strict historical prescriptivist definition of the word “nazi.”
All Nazis are fascists, not all fascists are nazis, academically speaking.
No. I know what I'm thinking. Thank you. Fascism was in Italy, during WW2 and before. "Benito Mussolini" rings any bells?
Spanish fascism was around in WWII, they wrote their manifesto for their specific approach to it, and now we are dealing with American fascism. Those are two different and unique systems of fascism. You understand that politics and language change and evolve, right? There are multiple different faces and approaches to fascism, just like any other political concept. That version of fascism failed, this is the current iteration. Think of it like an OS, every version of windows is still windows, but windows XP and windows Vista aren’t the same conversation.
Being anti-AI means being pro-copyright and ironically pro-big AI
Why don't you think twice about the implication of what you're saying before acting the fool? You're going in circles.
They are usually not polluting water directly. Also not a single part of this implies fascism. Classic propaganda post.
Keep on sucking on them cogs, you'll get better than a mouthful of grease one of these days.
https://natureforward.org/data-centers-and-water-use/
None of this even includes the water from the additional electricity generation required to power the data centers
The only thing with "fascism" there is "technofascists", which is just an umbrella term for people who heavily rely on tech to spread far-right ideologies. I don't like how loosely the term "fascism" is used on the internet, but this is far from the worst cases.
Polluting water indirectly is none the better.
Where I live data centers are built on empty land outside of cities
No, you have to be mad as hell. Mad about everything. ANGER OR BUST
Wide swaths of the right are against these data centers too. Dem politicians are for them too.
This kind of sniping misses the point. It's the political parties that are the problem, the sheep of both parties, and the cynical cunts that think they will benefit from subordinating the common good to big money, are just a symptom of a corrupt establishment, and corrupt culture.
We need popular alternatives, but most of you still trust the controlled opposition. Despite, you know, things.
With respect, I think you have missed the point. The argument being made is that AI* is inherently pro-right-wing and/or pro-fascist. The purpose of the argument is convince people who are against those politics to also be against AI. (In theory. This is an echo chamber, after all.)
Are some right-wingers against data centres? Sure. Most of them based on NIMBYism, I imagine, though some of a more libertarian bent may be opposed on grounds of intellectual property theft or the danger of widespread surveillance. That does not, by itself, detract from the argument.
Are some Democrat politicians for data centres? Sure. Many Democrat politicians are right wing by any sensible standard. (Most? I'm not sure, I'm not USian. Most senior ones, certainly.) That doesn't detract from the argument itself.
These things are illustrative of the problem of both political parties being captured, but that is still a separate problem.
* What is colloquially referred to as AI, not necessarily all applications of machine learning.
The establishment of both parties is all in on llm's and data centers. It's not left versus right, it's working class versus the investor class and oligarchy, is my point.
Democrat ruled areas and states are allowing data centers everywhere red controlled ones are, they are approving them in secret, they are suppressing dissent and lying about harms, and so forth.
No one wants data centers next to them. No one will want llm's after their harm becomes apparent. No one outside of the aforementioned establishment, their sheep, and their cynical backers, which are a minority of this country.
Party politics do not define left-wing and right-wing politics.
Almost literally the definition of left-wing politics.
The democrats do not represent the left, that is laughable. To think the party establishment represents the voters that vote for them, doesn't speak well to your understanding.
30% of each part are sheep, maybe 50 percent between the sheep and self interested dickheads that think they will benefit.
The rest hate all the politicians for the most part, how do you not get this? You clearly listen to the wrong people in your echo chambers.
That is left versus right. Your point is that its not democrat versus republican. Which is right versus extreme right.
You understand that the democratic party are all right wong conservatives, right? They’re not leftists.
You clearly didn't read what you are responding to or you would've seen that is what I fucking said.
Both parties are all in on data centers. Fuck your Democrats, it's your fault we are here if you still trust them. Jesus Christ no wonder we are losing with the "left," openly shilling for the democratic establishment, as if everyone outside the sheep didn't know better by now.
If lying about democrats not sucking worked, kamala would be president right now. How many times before you learn?
You’re having a rough day, huh?
If you consider raging on my printer for two hours a bad day, then yes. Fucking piece of shit, won't hook up to computer, won't print from flash drive, the buttons on it take 1 minute to register. Brother is a shit company, every single printer executive should be executed, no exceptions. With due process.
Oh yeah, you’re going through it. Been there, printers are hell. Drivers and firmware work straightforward with literally everything else you plug into a computer, what the fuck is wrong with the people who make printers? Fuck that shit.
God speed.
By the context I’m pretty sure OP wanted to say classism … and that everyone understands it