Yeah at least 75% of sales, advertising, and marketing is a barely measurable metric that exists to look useful while burning money. Like those advertising mailers? They're just employing people to do nothing but kill trees to prop up the postal service. Big brand ads? They just want to remind you that Coca-Cola exists in case you forgot since the last time they told you 10 minutes ago.
If there's no pressure to go onto the next call that's actually not a bad gig! I've never worked at a call center like that, though. Call centers are really hard places to work that pay terrible.
Spent nearly 10 years working call center jobs, every single one of them had QA people listening to random calls and grading them. If you didn't stick to the script or try to sell the thing or whatever it was, you'd get a failing grade on the call. Enough of those and you're gone.
You're also graded on how long each call takes based on a metric called "Average Handle Time" or AHT which was set by the client based on whatever fucking fantasy they had about how long each call should take.
Fun fact, some contracts I worked on had an AHT requirement that was lower than the amount of time it would take to go through all of their required scripted sales pitches without even addressing the reason for the call. It was literally impossible to get full marks because you either had to skip most of their required scripts, not help the customer, or have the call run long.
I worked at three call centers over two years. It was the longest two years of my life and it took years to recover. I was once written up for "lying to a customer" because I confirmed something I knew personally to be true but my employer hadn't included in our scripts. It's like being in a cult.
Same (but only 6 months). Min wage + commission. But, during election season, because the company didn't get commission, they just had the computers run through the lists and have us immediately hang up instead of going through the campaign scripts.
Having participated in the marketplace for a while, I am positive this is not true. Have you ever met a sales guy? They love executing on nonsensical strategies.
There's a lot of dumb money still out there. The term "dumb money" doesn't do it justice. We should call it "braindead money" instead.
Off script doesn't mean not trying to make a sale at all. And you gotta realise "a long time ago" makes anything you know invalid? It's the same thing as old people thinking young people are bad with money because they can't afford a house, car, kids etc. on a single income, like they could.
I used to do graphic design about 15 years ago but don't anymore, I'm not gonna tell someone who does it now that I know anything about how it currently is. Very weird to not be aware of something like that without having to be told about it.
Medicare Part D was or is a program to outsource prescription insurance for Medicare recipients under Bush 2. It created an absurd Matroska nest of contracts. I worked for a staffing agency to be call center agent at a company that ran pop-up call centers for various insurance companies operating under this program.
I was told my calls were monitored but never got any feedback whatsoever
so many wholesome posts and communities attract comments like this, pointing out why it is fake or not actually this wholesome. and I wonder where the healthy balance is between "facts and truth is important, actually; and so is not letting people wholesomewash awful experiences" and "party-pooping on an already-negative, very-happy-to-get-angry-about-politics platform in one of the few positive places doesn't feel great"
If there's not enough good or wholesome things that actually exist to create posts about then that's a big fucking problem with the world. But making shit up just to make yourself or other people feel better is absolutely not the answer. Your comment basically asks "is it bad to gaslight people about the state of the world, or is it actually okay because things are really so bad, and so we should get mad at the people pointing out the gaslighting?"
When I worked at a call center, we were hiring specialists. That's pretty much all we did. As long as we filled the jobs, it didn't matter how long we took. We rarely took more time than we had budgeted
I did tech support back in 2000 for dial-up and DSL. We were outsourced (though still in the US) for a major telco. We would get punished if we took too long on any call. It was always painful when clearly lonely old folks would want to keep talking.
I used to do some operator work for a major UK telecoms firm.
Because it was free, you had all sorts of people phoning it. A good chunk of them were just old folk who were lonely and just wanted someone to speak to.
It was nice. Some of us had additional roles too and we were generally left alone if there was nothing else to do, so it was nice talking about people's families and interests, and hearing their voices brighten over the course of five or ten minutes.
Reminds me of a story where apparently phone-sex workers had to be trained to give emotional support and suicide prevention stuff because most of their customers were just that broken
sounds like a good idea for an app using LLMs and text to voice.
old people just want to tell their stories. let em, even if we're not listening.
bonus. we can record the calls and archive them for historical purposes. many of these stories have significance in relation to world events.
edit: I'm conflicted on the response to this comment. part of me thinks it's an overreaction while another part of me is somewhat pleased that there seems to be a line that can't be crossed. especially in a world where I've been told over and over that if the ends justify the means, the motive is meaningless. 🤷
Because you completely missed the point of talking with the elderly with your statement. It's to make a connection with another human and share a bit of the human experience. An LLM for this purpose would be an abomination.
I don't disagree. but the fact that nobody does it only goes to prove my point more, right?
in general people are selfish, self-centered, pieces of shit. so why not use something that has zero practical uses for something somewhat practical in a positive way.
instead of scamming old folks of their money, let's use the same tech to give them a sense of support.
51 replies
Yeah at least 75% of sales, advertising, and marketing is a barely measurable metric that exists to look useful while burning money. Like those advertising mailers? They're just employing people to do nothing but kill trees to prop up the postal service. Big brand ads? They just want to remind you that Coca-Cola exists in case you forgot since the last time they told you 10 minutes ago.
Advertisement to people who want to make money is like selling shovels and picks to people who want to mine gold.
If there's no pressure to go onto the next call that's actually not a bad gig! I've never worked at a call center like that, though. Call centers are really hard places to work that pay terrible.
No sales job ever paid per time spent on phone
Anon is trying to be wholesome but has to forge reality in this fucked up world
Spent nearly 10 years working call center jobs, every single one of them had QA people listening to random calls and grading them. If you didn't stick to the script or try to sell the thing or whatever it was, you'd get a failing grade on the call. Enough of those and you're gone.
You're also graded on how long each call takes based on a metric called "Average Handle Time" or AHT which was set by the client based on whatever fucking fantasy they had about how long each call should take.
Fun fact, some contracts I worked on had an AHT requirement that was lower than the amount of time it would take to go through all of their required scripted sales pitches without even addressing the reason for the call. It was literally impossible to get full marks because you either had to skip most of their required scripts, not help the customer, or have the call run long.
what the panopticon hell batman. that would destroy my mental health so fucking fast.
I worked at three call centers over two years. It was the longest two years of my life and it took years to recover. I was once written up for "lying to a customer" because I confirmed something I knew personally to be true but my employer hadn't included in our scripts. It's like being in a cult.
Yes, it absolutely does.
Same (but only 6 months). Min wage + commission. But, during election season, because the company didn't get commission, they just had the computers run through the lists and have us immediately hang up instead of going through the campaign scripts.
They do if they are salaried. And have time trackers where they had to call for that long per work day
Having participated in the marketplace for a while, I am positive this is not true. Have you ever met a sales guy? They love executing on nonsensical strategies.
There's a lot of dumb money still out there. The term "dumb money" doesn't do it justice. We should call it "braindead money" instead.
Have you ever worked in a call center?
I have a long time ago and frequently had very long off-script calls without issues
Off script doesn't mean not trying to make a sale at all. And you gotta realise "a long time ago" makes anything you know invalid? It's the same thing as old people thinking young people are bad with money because they can't afford a house, car, kids etc. on a single income, like they could.
I used to do graphic design about 15 years ago but don't anymore, I'm not gonna tell someone who does it now that I know anything about how it currently is. Very weird to not be aware of something like that without having to be told about it.
Medicare Part D was or is a program to outsource prescription insurance for Medicare recipients under Bush 2. It created an absurd Matroska nest of contracts. I worked for a staffing agency to be call center agent at a company that ran pop-up call centers for various insurance companies operating under this program.
I was told my calls were monitored but never got any feedback whatsoever
so many wholesome posts and communities attract comments like this, pointing out why it is fake or not actually this wholesome. and I wonder where the healthy balance is between "facts and truth is important, actually; and so is not letting people wholesomewash awful experiences" and "party-pooping on an already-negative, very-happy-to-get-angry-about-politics platform in one of the few positive places doesn't feel great"
If there's not enough good or wholesome things that actually exist to create posts about then that's a big fucking problem with the world. But making shit up just to make yourself or other people feel better is absolutely not the answer. Your comment basically asks "is it bad to gaslight people about the state of the world, or is it actually okay because things are really so bad, and so we should get mad at the people pointing out the gaslighting?"
When I worked at a call center, we were hiring specialists. That's pretty much all we did. As long as we filled the jobs, it didn't matter how long we took. We rarely took more time than we had budgeted
Very interesting keep going
Now that's some sex talk
Oh baby, oh baby, oh baby.
Very interesting, keep going.
I did tech support back in 2000 for dial-up and DSL. We were outsourced (though still in the US) for a major telco. We would get punished if we took too long on any call. It was always painful when clearly lonely old folks would want to keep talking.
fuck this brings back memories of 'ok, now check the box that says tcp/ip and then click the button next to it that says tcp/ip settings'
there's no button
'there's no button? uh what do you see?'
I know what a button is there's no button. I don't see a button.
"ok, let's backtrack a bit - describe what menu you're in"
there's no button.
I do not miss those days
Weird pronunciations of tech terms that were not well known then was amusing at least. I have to go clear my cashAY
That's just regional pronunciation, still hear that a lot today.
I used to do some operator work for a major UK telecoms firm.
Because it was free, you had all sorts of people phoning it. A good chunk of them were just old folk who were lonely and just wanted someone to speak to.
It was nice. Some of us had additional roles too and we were generally left alone if there was nothing else to do, so it was nice talking about people's families and interests, and hearing their voices brighten over the course of five or ten minutes.
Growing old alone must suck.
My goal: don't do that
My goal is finding a challenging hobby to keep myself intellectually active. Being old and lonely might be unavoidable, but being bored isn’t.
Why not find a hobby that keeps you intellectually and socially active? And physically, for that matter.
Music does that
I too want a hobby that can keep me intellectually challenged
Best option: Grow old with friends!
Worse option: Develop schizophrenia and never be lonely again!
My goal: complete opposite of your goal.
God I hate people.
don't worry, you won't even really know because your brain will degrade so fast.
Surprisingly wholesome.
this shit is basically public service against the loneliness epidemic
Reminds me of a story where apparently phone-sex workers had to be trained to give emotional support and suicide prevention stuff because most of their customers were just that broken
I went looking for corroboration, but this is the closest I could find.
This is as cute as it is sad.
sounds like a good idea for an app using LLMs and text to voice.
old people just want to tell their stories. let em, even if we're not listening.
bonus. we can record the calls and archive them for historical purposes. many of these stories have significance in relation to world events.
edit: I'm conflicted on the response to this comment. part of me thinks it's an overreaction while another part of me is somewhat pleased that there seems to be a line that can't be crossed. especially in a world where I've been told over and over that if the ends justify the means, the motive is meaningless. 🤷
Or you could try developing some empathy and start giving a shit about other people, for a change
personally I hate LLMs and AI.
but I equally hate caring about other people.
I have more than enough empathy, why do you think I hate people so much?
Because you completely missed the point of talking with the elderly with your statement. It's to make a connection with another human and share a bit of the human experience. An LLM for this purpose would be an abomination.
I don't disagree. but the fact that nobody does it only goes to prove my point more, right?
in general people are selfish, self-centered, pieces of shit. so why not use something that has zero practical uses for something somewhat practical in a positive way.
instead of scamming old folks of their money, let's use the same tech to give them a sense of support.
Projection is strong in this one.
" I hate caring for other people" - selfish, self-centered
Thinks that effectively lying to old people so that people didn't need to deal with their needs, is a good idea - Pieces of shit
did I exclude myself from people somewhere or are you just assuming I meant "everyone is a piece of shit but me".
that's a piece of shit thing to do.
When did I say that? Projection doesn't require you to deny the features that you are projecting.
Assuming stuff while complaining about someone assuming something that they didn't... impressively on theme.
Tons of people do it though? I do personally, and then there's more professional outfits like story corps.
Maybe you should start hating billionaires instead of helping them
you do realize that you can build your own models, right?