Microsoft has an ambitious plan to win users back, and go toe-to-toe with Valve's SteamOS for gaming — but I'm not getting my hopes up
Microsoft is working on a new project labeled Windows 'K2', intent on removing bloatware, reducing AI, and optimizing Windows 11 for gaming, with three focuses of 'performance, craft, and reliability'.
the issue is not about performance, is about enshitification. I mean, do we need TPM? do we need Microslop account to login our pc/laptop? do they really need to shove Copilot into Windows?
https://www.techradar.com/computing/windows/microsoft-has-an-ambitious-plan-to-win-users-back-and-go-toe-to-toe-with-valves-steamos-for-gaming-but-im-not-getting-my-hopes-upOpen linkView original on reddthat.com386
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This is such a huge W for linux. It legitimizes linux as a real competitor in so many eyes.
That's because it is a legitimate competitor. It's the freedom OS, and only way for the world to escape Americas big tech fascism.
Yeah I know I've been using it for gaming for years. But when I say linux is good people might brush it off because oh you would say that as a linux user. But im highlighting that Microsoft saying this legitimizes Linux in a completely different way. It legitimizes it for all the people that see Windows as the best OS the people outside the linux bubble.
There is no greater force in the world than how glass half full Linux users can be, makes me so proud.
Then they fight you.
Bring it on
Classic Red Hat commercial
That was a solid ad
Yeah, that's Linux
Let that sink in for a second. Linux with a not-an-emulation layer API runs Microsoft Windows games faster than Microsoft Windows, and so now Microsoft is scrambling to get windows at least as efficient again as Linux in running Windows products.
Anyone ever trusting Microsoft again is a dumbass fool
We really need more alternative private non-stock unionized companies in USA made to go against Big Tech
That's really what it comes down to. Better alternatives across the board
Yes. If the community can win this hard ad-hoc, imagine the glory of buying from a dedicated employee owned vendor that provides a full stack solution with a support contract.
There's nothing (legal) the enshitifiers could counter with.
And even when they go full illegal (and they always do), there's more of us common folks who want a good product and a fair wage, than there are of them (exploiters).
Reducing ai but not removing it ain’t it
Microsoft adds the bloat themselves, and ever increasing telemetry reporting back, promises to update W10 for the lifetime of the device, reneges on it with W11 quoting security as its rationale but leaving 400 million users without security updates. Does all this at a time Linux is becoming very friendly and android phones have a desktop mode so they can be plugged into a keyboard and monitor and bypass the need for Windows. Microsoft has a bit of a think about the market value of its idiot direction and decides to remove a lot of the crap slowing the OS and give people back a little privacy, touts it as a new way of thinking about personal computing.
I'd say i'm cautiously optimistic but honestly i'm just not optimistic. They want to 'remove bloat, reel back AI, etc' and I'm just going to ask "how?"
how can they possibly improve their OS when the past year updates to 11 have been the worst in the companies history. the past few months alone have been an absolute cluster fuck and that's saying A LOT considering this the same company that gave us ME and Vista.
Before rebuilding the OS they need to take a seriously look internally and rebuild teams, management, etc because its' clear as day the company that they have currently cannot produce the potential OS they seem to want to produce.
You mention Windows Me and Vista as low points but Windows 8 was such a donkey that your memory must have blocked it so you could go on with your life. And you just know this wonderful new streamlined and privacy conscious version is going to look suspiciously like Windows 7 which most users wanted to stick with anyway.
Good lord you're right. I had completely forgotten about 8. I know I had it, I must have had it but I don't actually remember using it. It's like a gap there between 7 and 10 that is just gone from my head.
A lot can be said about Windows 8. I liked it. It was rock stable for me. It took EOL for me to migrate my gaming pc to windows 10 (due to baked in telemetry mostly).
That's not gonna happen until they, at the very least, crash and burn. There are some very competent tech people at Microsoft, and none of them are at the C level or upper management.
Not any more, so many left or asked to leave that did not agree with the "all in balls deep on AI"...
Knowing Microsoft, the new project is an update to DirectX which has features impossible for Proton to translate without violating anti-circumvention laws or an always on DRM baked into core features.
My only hope with this is that MS doesn't have a complete hold on the gaming market anymore. Valve has to hold some serious sway at this point, and MS doing that might backfire on them.
Section 1201(f) of the DMCA allows for interoperability; I’m sure Valve’s lawyers will figure it out
They could also do the Nintendo thing and plaster their trademarked name all over critical functions or interfaces and then sue anyone who tries to re-write their software, since you still have to handle calls to the MicrosoftTMOfficialDirectX13Windows_draw() function. Using a registered trademark without permission violates a different set of laws.
This would be fair use. Has already been decided https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_LLC_v._Oracle_America,_Inc.
Arguably the trademark issue has not been exactly resolved but I think this case will be very persuasive.
I really want to see more GNI/Linux and Tux GIF's/Images made to see out in the wild like this
If you made this you are a goat!
The libre community never disappoints my expectations of mid quality goofy images made to mock anything else that is not libre.
There you are, racking up multi kills, bonus points are pouring in. The map is yours and you are about to push the score back in favour of your team…
When all of a sudden
“DO YOU WANT TO TURN ON STICKY KEYS? PWEASE LOGIN TO ONEDRIVE TO ACTIVATE YOUR 365 COPILOT ACCOUNT SUBSCRIPTION. ACTIVATING BITLOCKER LOCKDOWN.”
I abandoned Windows for Linux rather than update to Windows 11. I will be interested to see what Microsoft does, but at this point I seriously doubt they're going to be able to give me a good enough reason to return to Windows as my primary OS. At this point I only need it for a few applications that don't have a Linux equivalent and don't run on Wine.
I know it's not possible for everyone, but I just cut ties with any application that wouldn't work on Linux and found alternatives.
For those that can't, it's worth it to go 99% Linux and set up a dual-boot. Also I made a video recently that details some security measures you can take on Windows to help you stay private if anyone's interested.
I hate that I need to keep one computer in my household on windows to be able to run my business. I've got 4 programs that I need to connect to my machines or I can't do anything.
Have you tried to Winboat the apps missing ?
I also switched earlier this year to cachyos. I'm definitely not going back. The simple fact that I need to boot the Windows old partition to update it makes me anxious.
I feel so much more in control of my operating system it feels really nice.
Seconding Winboat, works great for the one piece of software I have that is stuck on Windows. At this point I am 100% not going back, I even wiped my Windows disk. That drive is for trying out other distros now.
Winboat looks really interesting. How does it compare to just using WinApps? It seems like it's basically just doing the heavy lifting for setting programs up, yeah?
It's very similar. I found WinApps to be quite flaky, where WinBoat feels much more solid. However, a nice feature of WinApps is the ability to set the Windows apps as the default file type, and you can open files from the right click > Open With, which you can't do with WinBoat. Not that I've found, anyway.
Nice, the default file types isn't a deal breaker for me. I'll have to give it a shot! I've been testing debian on my laptop before changing my desktop over. Hadn't found a good solution for a handful of my windows-only programs yet but this seems like it might do the trick.
This looks cool, I assume it's not meant for super resource intensive programs though?
Yep, I had a look at Winboat. It's effectively a Windows VM anyway (using RDP), so for the sake of the couple of applications I need Windows for (which mostly interact with each other), VirtualBox with a VM is easier for me to manage.
I don't think they care as long as your employer is still using Windows. They will get really scared if school systems start adopting Linux.
Most schools these days (not college or uni) use chrome books not windows. I think Microsoft's bread and butter is boomers and businesses, to hell with the average consumer.
Eh, TPM is pretty convenient for full-disk encryption tbh
linuxes can do that too. sure, you have to set it up by hand for now, but the necessary tools are available
Ubuntu just added that feature. Not my distro of choice, but it’s coming up.
Yeah, MS lost a lot of trust with stupid things and getting that back - good luck with that.
I'm goneI switched to Linuxsincea year (been on Windows since 3.0) or so ago and won't ever go back even though I still need to run Visual Studio in a virtual guest.2025 the year of Linux desktop 🤗
Microsoft right now
Get rid of telemetry, ads, AI, and the MS account requirement for a start.
There’s nothing MS can do to make me trust them again. They can “love bomb” all they want, but a toxic ex is a toxic ex.
Publicly traded corporations will always exploit anything and anyone they can get away with to maximize their profits. They will only improve just enough to trap you again, then the exploitation begins again.
This, for sure, but if she wants to dance I'll dance with her. 🤪
For serious, tho: people change. I don't expect mega corporations to ever change for the better. They'll do whatever they need to get money and you can guarantee they'll fuck you (the bad kind) as soon as you're invested.
at the very best, they can, on occasion, do something thats accidentally good.
But that never really meaningfully alters the trajectory of evil.
You sound like one of my exes. -_-
Of course not.
Install Linux, Problem Solved.
Help others switch then the problem is fully solved
I like how back in the day Gabe proposed to MS to invest into gaming on PC, got ignored, left company to chase this venture of his own. Which leads us to today as Gabe is about to drop a gaming-OS nuke on the market that will finally shaken (or hopefully shatter to pieces) MS's gaming OS monopoly.
Love to see MS giving out promises to users way before Steam Machine drops. They are clearly scared shitless.
Consumers aren't MS's market anymore. It would hurt if Windows lost market share but it wouldn't be devastating.
What is their market then? Corporate OS? EU is already planning to move off the Windows to Linux in corporate spaces. Things have been moving in this direction lately.
Their primary source of income is services like M365 and Azure. Its been like that for a while now. That's the main reason for the Win11 fuckup - they just don't care about consumers anymore.
There are moves to get public bodies in some EU countries off of non-sovereign platforms but as a risk it is a long way off. You are right though, its definitely a worry for them.
Yep, there's a reason they turned Office into a web app. Even if companies switch to Linux or macOS, MS can still sell them a subscription to Outlook/Office/etc.
Company wants to move their servers to Linux as well? Well Azure also provides cloud based Linux servers, MS doesn't care what you run as long as they can make money off it.
MS365 is also under attack. There are huge advances in selfhosting collaborative editing web-based apps as of late.
Azure will probably keep existing tho.
They'll either never do it, or do it for a year or so then go back to being pieces of shit.
Also expect this:
"hey windows is better"
yeah? Is it this good?
"well, no, but..."
This has been their MO for time immemorial. Make windows shit, right up to the line where people will leave. Only discover where the line actually is after they've stepped over it, then backpedal just enough to stem the exodus and keep people locked in. Repeat.
Why would anyone get their hopes up about a Microsoft product?
Some of the hardware sold under their name is/was quite ok.
I'm not sure who designed and created that stuff, though.
I don't even care what they do at this point, they've proved themselves to be so incompetent that I have no desire to go back to windows.
Strip out all tracking, anti-competitive anti consumerist features, remove all AI, make it secure and with all of the extra and fancy features opt-in.
Literally just make a decent, respectable operating system, and you will win. This is how you win at literally anything right now. Just make it durable and private and secure and not extremely expensive and make sure it WORKS, and people will suck your dick from across the planet.
NOBODY WANTS AI OR MICROTRANSACTIONS OR TO BE PUSHED AROUND OR CONNED, YET THAT'S ALL ANYBODY IS DOING - THE POSITION OF NOT A PIECE OF SHIT IS LITERALLY UP FOR GRABS, YOU JUST NEED TO REACH OUT AND TAKE IT.
Even if they did all this, it's still Microslop, the next rugpull is just right around the corner. I'll never go back, i don't care how much better they make their spyware delivery system.
Hilarious. Nobody goes through the trouble of achieving multiple monopolies just to give people what they want.
Yeah, it's starting to look as though their monopoly is not as secure as they'd assumed, so they might bend a bit, for a while.
That almost never works. By the time a monopoly starts to crumble the rot is systemic. In this case, every single internal stakeholder at MS is going to sabotage the project as soon as someone tells them their baby cant use 3GB of ram and track every mouse click the user makes while it forces flashing ads onto the screen.
Also don't be fucking insane or evil? I feel like that doesn't need to be said, but it 100% does, apparently.
I hope they don't do all of this. I just want them to lose you know.
Just release an updated version of Win 10, problem solved.
like they said they would
If Microsoft wants to win users back, the only way to do that is by re-releasing Windows 7, and make a legal contract to never add spyware, monetization, adware, AI, service accounts to install/log in to the PC, or anything else to it.
Windows 7 was the peak of their capabilities. everything before that was building up to 7, everything after was a series of missteps and fuckups.
But thats never gonna happen.
I might consider Windows again if they made civil promises in such a way as to expose themselves to existential-level class-action lawsuits, should they go back on their word. Nothing less. Show me you’re ready to die for my trust, otherwise you’re not getting it back — ever.
Actually… hmm… could we plebs trick the execs and shareholders into giving us powerful corporate positions, where we can do exactly this? That would be a very aggressive and interesting way to make corporations beholden to the public good.
10 was also perfectly fine.
Who hurt you?
I didn't say good, I said fine. It worked.
should just use the Linux kernel and pit their version of the desktop on top of that.
The only value windows has is that it runs software made by companies that are too lazy to add another build target
I'm imagining Microsoft taking it all the way and when you buy a Win13 license key, it basically installs a custom theme in KDE Plasma or maybe Cinnamon.
It might be worse for their profits long term than sticking with their locked down bullshit, but it's kind of funny to think that they would first make billions of dollars of sales on their linux distro.
they just gonna shittify it later. who even trusts microslop atp
I'll never voluntarily use a Windows PC ever again. Wayyy too late
They should have done this 5 years ago.
I’m never going back.
You know what's funny? The fact that they could have done this ages ago.
But then we wouldn't have the amazing AI no one asked for or uses!
It's possible they're kind of admitting defeat with PC enthusiasts and will just settle for the average user and the business user. If they're smart they would make windows home free to use and then charge a fair lump for K2 (and make it extremely good - yknow - things software companies should be doing). That way it's a PR win and they can exploit both business models.
I strongly expect Microsoft to completely bottle it as usual though. They have some deep corporate rot imo.
I nuked my hard drive when they kept shoving more invasive idiocy, more sloppy shite, and a confluence of cloud crap into it.
They're not going to win me back by integrating their overpriced subscription PS+ knock-off crap further into their joke of an OS.
Recycle Bin is still fucking broken after literal YEARS of me complaining over the fact it doesn't delete files older than 30 days from it. I have files that date months back in time. How about you start at fucking that Microsoft, eh?
Also fuck off the Recommended section from Start menu. The greatest idiocy of all times, wasting same amount of Start menu real estate whether it's enabled or not. It just wastes same space telling me to tuen it on when it's disabled. What the fuck?
My hopes are it crashes and burns. I have my hopes up.
And what will their ambitious plan be?
Marketing, bribery, coercion, cheating. Those are the only things Microsoft has ever excelled at (pun intended), as software development is something they have NEVER done well
Definitely gonna be restrictive contracts so manufacturers can’t sell both and forced advertising for Microsoft services like Google does with Android OEMs.
Their ambitious plan is to protect their desktop monopoly. Microsoft had planned on making gaming a major part of their revenue. However, they messed up so bad that it created the first true threat to the Windows monopoly on decades.
If the SteamOS tech stack can get consumers off Windows, then it makes it that much easier to threaten the Office monopoly as well.
This sounds like a very good thing, right? They've got the message that we don't want Copilot, we don't want AI, we don't want our computers to require an Internet connection, and they're listening.
No, they're listening to market share change.
Please explain how that's different from what I said?
The source of the numbers doesn't matter, only the numbers.
Is the downstream behavior not almost identical? Is this pedantry for pedantry’s sake, or are you attempting to make a point?
It's pedantry. The inevitable result of not listening to your customers is losing customers. Losing market share is still customer feedback.
The difference is they only care about shareholders and will do whatever to get enough people or corporate users back. That doesn't mean they're going to do what we all want.
So we all agree they’re listening to market share change
Not sure what point you or the other one are attempting to make, but the original point is still valid
I hope you were sarcastic... Because Microsoft's new business model is AI. So Windows will continue to be their portal toward AI.
Yeah, but that only works if people actually use Windows.
They already have a Linux distro, they could make that the default kernel and reach parity tomorrow.
Yeah this won't win any Linux users back. At best, it will just slow the rate of users changing from Windows to Linux.
I will preface by saying, I hate it so much, and fear the day we can no longer put TPM into 'user mode' and enroll our own keys for our own signed & authorized OS (on hardware we own, in our house, not in th cloud), BUT if you are building an operating system focused on gaming, performance, and security, implementing and securing trusted + measured boot so the hardware platform ensures all stages of the bootloader, OS + game are the exact code the vendor intended is the absolutely correct way to implement anti-cheat. Sketchy 3rd party kernel mode modules that rummage around your system reporting what to who knows who wouldn't be needed at all in this environment.
lol comical, the OS is not one feature deployment from being magically fixed. It's an easy decade away at the pace that Microsoft updates. Sorry but it will never happen. Windows computer OS is sunset like it's Phone OS Its not luxury, the rich buy Apple, its not secure and free, that's Linux, its not good for gaming, that's now Linux. Whats left? Business ? Thats eroding fast!
Win 8.1 wants a word.
Thats an over-simplification. Say what you will about MacOS but it is secure. Some Linux distros are very secure, but its not a given. And some rich people run Linux or Windows.
My friend, Business is the reason MS doesn't have to care about consumers or even Windows anymore.
Not even close. Entire Kernel is cancer. 8.1 was bad lipstick on a pig.
Biggest attribute of them both is a simplification.
But 8.1! Entire EU says good luck with that
Hahahahahhahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahhahaahahahahhahahhahahahahahahahahahshshshha!
What a fucking joke. Microsoft lost the moment to pedal back a while ago. The damage is done.
The funny thing about AI is that it helps Linux transition in 3 ways:
Copilot shoved everywhere is irritating
Microslop abusing AI pushes one bug after another into windows
AI makes transition to Linux much easier. I tried multiple times and failed, but now, it's like having my own geeky friend who can help me solve any issue, sure... the guy hallucinates sometimes, but if you use your brain, it still can be really helpful.
They should try not sucking. Not spying on their users. Maybe let me tell the OS what I want it to do and not have to do whatever it feels like in any given scenario.
We don't even need hope for Microsoft/Windows, hoping for that just means hoping for more shit (but slightly less worse than Linux emulation of Windows games than atm).
are they actually loosing any sensible userbase across all windows versions though? from statcounter I fail to see that, what stats do you guy usually look up too?
Well if Linux can make Windows better, it is a win win.
linux: microslop edition
Look all they have to do is rerelease Windows 7.
MS... The only reason why I still ise it is because I don't have the time or nerves to get used to Linux in my current life.
Getting and understanding the workarounds I need to get working just to play my two favorite games that don't run on Linux is not something I will use my time on.
I need a plug and play windows clone on Linux that runds everything I know out of the box, sadly.
People here won't like that, but it's the reality gate that keeps many people aeay from switching.
Well, if MS ever tries to force me into ID verification or subscription windows or based on AI at its core I'll bite the bullet. But not before
Consider giving Zorin OS a shot. Their particular distro is purpose-built to allow for easy migration away from Windows, into a Windows-like Linux environment. No terminals, and they make it easy to install and run .exe files. Their $50 pro edition includes some technical support as well.
Personally, I am waiting for SteamOS Desktop to release. Once that happens, I will be comparing CachyOS, Zorin OS, and SteamOS to decide which best suits my power-casual life.
I will. Thank you.
Any idea of star citizen and path of exile 2 run on it?
No idea. I don't play those games, and only had a couple months of experience with Linux a year or so ago. My experience with Mint mostly worked, but I play lots of games far outside of the Steam ecosystem. My edge cases is why I didn't switch at the time.
Provided you stick to just Steam's garden, you probably won't have issues. There is a website for checking compatibility with Proton, the layer used to run Windows games via Steam.
ProtonDB: Path of Exile 2 (Platinum)
Yeah the effort and disruption was my main reason for holding off for so long, then I set up a dual boot on my desktop and laptop and honestly after spending a week away with just Linux laptop I didn't have the patience for windows when I got back. So far there's been some fiddling around but a lot of my games have worked fine. No idea about those games but protondb can give an idea.