Spyke
lemmy.world

Science is only political because scientists have to continuously convince politicians reality exists.

It's frustrating that something like climate change is even a political discussion at all. Don't Look Up captured that frustration really well.

289
Tiresiareply
slrpnk.net

Convincing people your interpretation of reality exists is literally all that politics is.

Unfortunately, despite being correct, science is also an interpretation of reality.

48

Convincing people your interpretation of reality exists is literally all that politics is.

What? No. No, no, you naive fool... many politicians, if not most, don't believe most of what they're selling, and don't give a flying fuck about it.

They'll sell whatever line the party they're working for wants them to sell, and they'd just as happily sell the opposition party's line if it paid better and they could switch without being called a turncoat.

Also, it's not about convincing people about specific beliefs; most people are mostly already convinced of their worldviews and if they change them it won't be because of some politician. It's about convincing them, despite all evidence to the contrary, that the politician shares those beliefs, and will impose them on people who don't if they vote for them.

despite being correct, science is also an interpretation of reality.

Again, no. Science (except for mathematics, but that's it's own thing) doesn't and shouldn't ever claim to be correct.

It's the most accurate approximation we have so far of how nature works, but it's constantly trying to achieve better approximations, and will happily throw away the old ones when it finds a better one.

It also should always make very clear that it's an approximation or a description, not an interpretation. Science should always be objective, never subjective, and interpretations are by definition subjective.

14
Grailreply
multiverse.soulism.net

I think we need politics to go beyond one reality, and embrace a subjective multiverse where people can perceive what they want to perceive.

-22
Tyrqreply
lemmy.dbzer0.com

If only the idiots could just piss off to their own multiverse of idiocy and leave the rest of us alone

31
Grailreply
multiverse.soulism.net

I would be happy if I didn't have to share a universe with realists, but the thing about realists is, they're not happy to let that happen. They think there's only one universe. They psychologically abuse our kind to try to get us back to their reality.

I have a friend named Sonic who's an introject. He appeared in someone else's head one day, having been assembled from thoughts about video games and comic books. He tried to get help from a psychologist with his mental health. Instead of helping him, she told him he doesn't exist and tried to erase him. She messed him up so bad, he tried to commit suicide, tried to destroy the body he lives in and everyone else who lives in it, just to prove he could have an effect on the world, that he exists.

He's doing a lot better now that he's surrounded by antirealists and he isn't seeing that psychologist anymore.

-5

I want to be very clear here, it was my schizo meltdown, not Grail's. And more properly, it was Sonic's meltdown, and it probably ties into out dissociative symptoms more than whatever schizo-spectrum whatever we have going on.

3

TIL the multiverse instance has someone other than Grail. But, I wouldn't be surprised if it's perfectly in line with yall's belief that you all are actually personalities of one dude, who might not even exist anyway.

3

Cool cool cool so the climate is pretty fucked and now the way people have lived for millennia will cease to be possible. But at least we were open minded about delusion.

20
mander.xyz

You can invent a vaccine, but getting people to take it is a different matter entirely and not just because of politicians.

16
Starya67reply
lemmy.world

Andrew Wakefield managed to fuck up people's attitude towards vaccines quite well without politics.

10

Inserting things under people's skin just freaks people out in general. There are so many reasons.

1

They also have to continually convince politicians and other politically minded people to give them money, and risk having it taken away if their results are politically inconvenient.

5

Whether climate change is occurring, what damage it's doing and what's causing it are scientific questions. How to address it is a set of political questions: How do we get humanity to emit less greenhouse gases? How do we get countries on the same page? How do we make sure that the effects of these changes don't increase global inequality?

The scientific questions have been answered very well, and are continuing to be answered in more detail all the time.

The response to the political questions has been an abject failure so far.

3

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it."

Upton Sinclair

2
lemmy.world

doesn't harm organic tissue

Which is totally why Bayer has settled their lawsuit for several billions of dollars over claims that it causes lymphoma.

Edit: also, plants are organic tissue.

166

Your stomach microbiome is plants

Which is why I spend a solid 3 hours a day facing the sun with my mouth held wide open. Gotta let my tummy plants photosynthesize somehow.

131

You say that as a joke but I'm pretty sure this clown is also one of the quacks who regularly talked about the "health benefits" of butthole tanning.

56

I once saw him (in person) give a drunken, sloppy, rambling speech to a bunch of high schoolers back in 1999. Calling him a clown is an insult to clowns.

19
johsnyreply
lemmy.world

Rfk seems to think the sun shines out his asshole.

20

He thinks so, but, no that's just a mysterious emissive liquid that he drinks every morning.

"We all need sunshine"

4
Corkyskogreply
sh.itjust.works

That's why you're sick. You need to constantly be in the sun without sunscreen, look at RFK jr's healthy glow as a good example of prime health.

If you're not feeding your tummy plants with the sunlight it needs you're not living healthy.

7
Slashmereply
lemmy.world

your sick

your not feeding

your not living

"You're" means "you are". "Your" means "belonging to you".

8
Echo Dotreply
feddit.uk

That's why you have to occasionally stick your arse in the air on a sunny day. Do it near a school or local park. You'll be fine, if anyone asks tell them JFK said to.

2
lemmy.blahaj.zone

Funny that in Spanish it's called "flora intestinal", not "fauna intestinal". Always though that it's a but of a misnomer.

17
lemmy.world

Intestinal flora is a common phrase in English, too. Or "gut flora". It's one of those old 19th century scientific phrases which has stuck around.

Like this, err, gentleman (who apparently wants to drag us back to that past) we used to believe gut bacteria to be plant-based. Science caught up, but the term has had sticking power. It seems to be a favorite of marketers of probiotic supplements.

"Microbiota" or just the straightforward "gut bacteria" would be more accurate and modern. But of course, everyone except for this guy already knows that.

18

Did he read/hear about gut flora somewhere, and get his eggs scrambled?

6

there is valid science in gut microbiome, the Pseudoscience take on is, the "leaky gut, or inflammatory diet bs.

3
prolereply
lemmy.blahaj.zone

Funny that you believe RFK Jr believes in bacteria. Dude doesn't believe in germ theory

2
Echo Dotreply
feddit.uk

Well it's only a theory has anyone actually met a germ?

2

Germs are just dirty microscopes. Have you ever seen one with the naked eye?

1
sh.itjust.works

Sometimes I have this weird theory that RFK Jr is really like a Dr. Zoidberg type alien in a skin suit. He just kind of guesses at how human anatomy works because he isn't human himself and isn't professional enough to get a real education on the subject.

82
lemmy.blahaj.zone

At least Zoidberg means well, RFK Jr. has more in common with the brain slugs or the gas station egg salad sandwiches

19
lemmy.world

It’s hard to say what’s more farfetched, that he is a Zoidbergian alien, or that The Kennedys were just raised that far from any level of anything resembling actual human reality?

12

Here's the new theory I'm pushing:

Have you ever seen RFK in the same room as the Necronomicon? Just something to think about.

4

Considering wacky theories have a tendency to contradict each other (and itself) it would be far more impressive if his wacky theories weren't contradictory.

11
lemmy.world

One with frontotemporal dementia that has rapidly shrinking brain, the other one with half a brain eaten by the worm... in what fucking timeline do we live... feels like Rick and Morty episode... fuck. me.

39
Sylvartasreply
lemmy.dbzer0.com

Heroin-fueled brain worms, allegedly contracted from (knowingly and voluntarily) eating rotten meat on a semi regular basis*

4

The timeline where Americans collectively lose their minds and make shit loads of money uploading youtube videos about it.

4

Glyphosate has also been linked to gluten intolerance: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3945755/

Maybe at some point, all the “gluten free” products will switch to “glyphosate free”. Until then, I’ve been buying imported flour from Italy, where its use is significantly more regulated than here in the US, although not entirely banned.

12

Everything is political, and there has never been a time that proves that better than now.

31

The fact that all of a sudden writing with a Sharpie is a political statement is baffling.

4
lemmy.world

Of course science is political. Knowledge is power and all power systems are political.

But ignoring philosophy, Science is a charity. By in large they must beg for their money. You don't suppose that the people providing the money have any influence?

And I'm not talking about junk science, biased studies, or even fraud. A perfectly run study may still be political simply because it was chosen for funding over something else.

31
piefed.zip

I remember that when Roundup first came out, glyphosate was being held up as a brilliant example of herbicide design since it inhibits a vital metabolic pathway in plants that animals don't have. They even claimed that the surfactants in Roundup were more harmful than the glyphosate itself. I guess that claim didn't hold up too well.

30

some weeds already have become resistant to it, not all but sooner or later more and more will be selected for it.

5
midwest.social

Real red blooded manly Americans only eat the rawest red meat directly from the carcas and have no need to worry about celiac disease like some girly communist liberal soy boy would.

/s

4

Same! If it’s an errant argument against glyphosate, I guess I’ll take it? Or is it a stance that celiac is no big deal and we should put more glyphosate in our food?

2
sh.itjust.works

Awfully big words, for someone who doesn't believe in germ theory.

26
Omnipitaphreply
reddthat.com

holup, what? This guy is working on Victorian era medical knowledge? Is his idol Robert Liston??

10
lemmy.ca

Theodoric of York.

You know, medicine is not an exact science, but we are learning all the time. Why, just fifty years ago, they thought a disease like your daughter’s was caused by demonic possession or witchcraft. But nowadays we know that Isabelle is suffering from an imbalance of bodily humors, perhaps caused by a toad or a small dwarf living in her stomach.

11
TyrionBeanreply
lemmy.ml

It's always gratifying to see another "old person" in the comments. 😃

2

Who would've predicted modern toxic bro culture leading to the resurfacing of miasma theory? But at this point I wouldn't be surprised to hear him start talking about imbalances of black bile and phlegm.

6

As if denying millions of Americans access to proper healthcare wasn't enough, they appointed an anti-science, anti-vaxx idiot as if to make sure even more harm would be inflicted on them.

26
xep
discuss.online

What I think he's trying to say is that Glyphosate affects the shikimate pathway, which is a biological pathway in plants. This doesn't exist in human cells, but it does exist in our gut microbiota.

We also know now that Glyphosate is a glycine analogue and can displace glycine anywhere in protein synthesis, with unknown effects. It's also likely an endocrine disrupter.

21

It always puzzles me why otherwise intelligent people go so far to make excuses for morons who obviously don't know what they're talking about.

5

It's found in plants and bacteria so it's not actually exclusively plants which is why in most countries you're not allowed to use it as a weed killer.

6
TwilitSkyreply
lemmy.world

You're saying a lot here and I'm sure it's valid and interesting but let's make this easy: If it's not food, it shouldn't go in the food supply unless the benefits to consumers outweigh costs.

4

But you're talking about US policy, so the actual metric is that it shouldn't go in the food supply unless the benefits to corporations outweigh the costs.

3
lemmy.ca

Ofc the digestive flora is plants. Man the level of stupidity. Just as dumb as the orange dumbass talking about asylum seekers being release from mental asylums... What a time to be alive.

16
lemmy.ca

Despite the world flora, the digestive system is largely populated by bacteria, not plants

11

Yes, I am fully aware of that contrary to RFK. It is kind of sad to see people with no credentials running everything...

2
lemmy.ca

RFK has never been about science.

He was a paid antivax advocate, for money, now he's a paid glyphosate advocate, again for money.

15

Ah yes, he's on the show with the very tall and smart scientist Dr Rogan /s

12

So does it go after organic tissue or not, because last time I checked I'm pretty certain that plants are organic. No one has plants in their stomach either. What a prat.

11
lemmy.world

So what does he think he's found a cure for this time? We've done covid, fatness, and autism - is this supposed to be a cure for gluten allergy?

7
dohpaz42reply
lemmy.world

As someone with violent celiacs disease, i can appreciate the allure of something that could cure or alleviate a genuine gluten allergy. It would be absolutely amazing if it were to ever happen.

But anything coming out of this guy’s mouth is poison, and should be treated as such.

11

Sometimes it feels there is no light at the end of the suffer tunnel for people with severe celiac disease.

1
midwest.social

My mother developed an allergy to Roundup that she thought was celiac until she discovered that organic bread didn't bother her at all.

7

celiacs would be easily tested with gluten blood test, or a intestinal biopsy if symptoms are present. did she test for those? i was tested for it, eventhough my demographic is not susceptible to it, its not a routine test.

1

is he not aware that most celiacs sufferers are mostly white people, of northern european descent. With some ME, and indian ancestry.

6
lemmy.zip

Do you think they had a meeting to come up with this bullshit or all it took was a shower?

5

This isnt related solely to Glyphosate, but in Germany Parkinson is being recognised as a "condition caused by working co editions" for farmers and Thier exposure to herbicides (etc.) in general

4
lemmy.ca

Is this RFKJ's broken clock moment?

Or am I reading into this wrong? Cuz AFAIK glyphosate is in fact bad for the environment and the food chain including us.

3

Thank you. I tried re reading it in "gargling sand" voice but I still couldn't figure out what he meant.

3

Apparently he's saying it's safe? I honestly dont know wtf he's saying

1
lemmy.world

So I know just because they are saying to bring back the R word and stop being woke, it's still offensive to many but...

3

They want to unban gyphosphate so that CERTAIN countries dropping it on their neighbouring country's fields doesn't count as committing a warcrime.

2
mander.xyz

Sorry i can't keep track of every single retard with a microphone in the US, who is this guy, how did he afford a nice suit, and in what situation is he saying this? ( Im not going to ask what his alma mater is because whatever he got taught in the past it has nothing to do with what he is saying)

2
Sylvartasreply
lemmy.dbzer0.com

how did he afford a nice suit

Ooh I know that one ! It's because of the "K" in RFK, which means "Kennedy"

8

One of the kennedys that became republican because he had a drug filled, worm filled life. the heroin/carcass eating likely permanantly damaged his brain. and its the only kennedy that dint have a severe medical condition, or die from a horrible event.

2

I find it funny how everything with him starts out like. Oh okay yeah that is concerning. Maybe we should look into it. Followed by WTF is this guy smoking and where can I get some?

Edit: Also great video about RFK.

https://youtu.be/ifO7hU-0WIY

1
lemmus.org

Any scientists want to weigh in here? It's a theory I've heard that does sound plausible even though it's coming from this moron's mouth.

-6
protistreply
retrofed.com

I'm just here to point out that your stomach microbiome consists of bacteria and fungi, which are not plants. There's also direct evidence glyphosate causes several different types of cancer in animals, which is pretty harmful to animals. Also all life is made up of organic tissue, not just animals.

64

In the spirit of the comment we’re replying to - what direct evidence is there? I’ve mostly seen studies providing dubious or weak links between realistic dosages of Glyphosate and any animal harm. I legitimately want to learn more if I’m mistaken.

2
remonreply
ani.social

Nah, that sentence is just total non-sense.

Plants are still "organic tissue", the microbiome is mostly in the gut, not the stomach (the stomach is full of acid) and it does NOT consist of plants but of bacteria.

32

I was asking more of whether glyphosphate was responsible for some of the seeming uptake in gut disorders from wheat we see today.

6
gnutrinoreply
programming.dev

I believe what he was trying to get at is that the shikimate pathway that glyphosate inhibits is also used in the bacteria and fungi that make up the gut microbiome.

Not sure what his overall point was supposed to be (or whether he had one) but that's the "microbiome is plants" part.

8

We are increasingly finding out that gut biome affects mood because the majority of serotonin and dopamine are produced in the gut. While I have to see any conclusive research, I would not be the least surprised to see a direct link between glycophosphate and depression discovered in the future.

5
lemmy.today

no nothing comes from his mouth is plausible, he isnt a scientist in epidemiology, or a biologist, he a pseudoscience quack.

3
piefed.social

Science itself is not political, this is not a science meme, and having looked at your post history I won't be missing anything by not seeing you again.

-54
sh.itjust.works

Assuming you're a student, have you ever tried to write up a lab report from multiple arguments using the same experiment? It's a fun exercise in the potential for politics in science because it shows how you can capture and use the same data to argue diametrically opposing points.

25
FishFacereply
piefed.social

There is a philosophical distinction between the essence of science and the human application of scientific method. It's not that important a distinction in practice, but I don't refrain from pedantry when replying to people who for some reason can't bring themselves to post in a political memes community.

-23